So who is better: Ryu or Ken.

[Eduardo24]

Well, I always use Ryu because I am his bitch and thats it. I want to know what the pro players think.

[wakeupsweep]

Akuma

[UltraDavid]

Eh, in ST, probably Ryu. But Ken, New and Old, is still really good.

[Goryus]

The inverted fireball funky foot is annoying.

[Grits'N'Gravy]

Depends on version, some quick stuff (besides teching/super)-

OG Ken: Slow fireballs, great lp shoryu, hp shoryu hits everything (for no damage, but whatever), jhk crosses up
ST Ken: Worse fireballs, axe kick dizzies, knee bash throw crossup tick tricks
OG Ryu: Faster fireball recovery/better trapping
New Ryu: Juggles, overhead, more fb recovery

It depends on your comfortable range and how you use/want to use fireballs. Both Kens can set up decent FB traps, but they can't and shouldn't dictate your playstyle... Ryu (either version) gives you a better scrub-killer imo.

[ShinVega]

Apart from the info above, I believe that N.Ken is better than N.Ryu. I don't use OG Ken or Ryu so I can't comment on those. N. Ken is an aggressive players answer. He's probably the flashiest and fastest character in the game IMO. Balancing the offense with a strong counter ability (lighting fast reflexes), and quick defense. Being able to lock down opp. is essential in some situations, however, some matches require you to take a slower defensive approach.

As for moves N. Ken has a much larger combo ability, and has great priority, anti-air, and reversal ability. Knee bash is an essential part of my game plan as it is devestating to the opp. health and leaves a perfect tick opportunity.

[jchensor]

I don't even think it is debatable. N.Ryu is much better than N.Ken. N.Ken's game is strong, but has a lot of random factors to it. You have to rely on your mind games working and your tricks working. Ken will kill you 10x faster than Ryu if they work, admittedly. But against a really mentally solid opponent, if they can out-do your mind games and tricks, you are left with very little. Ken doesn't have a solid-enough base game to be top tier in ST. That's why the best Kens are random Kens. Ryu can outright defeat you whether you successfully pull off your mind games or not because his base game is very strong.

Most match ups for Ken are easier with Ryu. Ryu beats Honda easier. He beats O.Sagat easier. He beats Cammy easier. He beats Chun easier. He beats Guile easier. He beats Dhalsim easier. He has the advantage in a straight-up Ryu vs. Ken match up. There are only a few match ups that I think Ken does better than Ryu in, like Zangief. But pound for pound, Ryu is better or equal in most of the match ups. It might not be a significant advantage, but it still makes Ryu a more solidly better character than Ken.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[fatboy]

Just though this might help.:sweat:

As taken from the SRK wiki:

http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Tiers

Tiers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is a combination of tier lists provided by Kyokuji and Ouroborus on the ST forums.

Top:
O.Sagat
Dhalsim
Boxer
Claw

Upper:
Dictator
Chun'
Ryu

Middle:
Deejay
Guile
Ken

Lower-Mid:
Fei-Long
Honda (Gets killed by fireballs, but does OK against 'Sim, and owns everyone without one)
Blanka

Bottom:
Zangief
Cammy
T. Hawk




Ryu v. Ken.... SNIP.... http://jchensor.blogspot.com

Agreed! You took the words right out of my mouth. By one minute no less.

[CapMaster]

If you're asking me? Ryu. Ken is more flashy. Ryu is more solid.

[Mizuki]

Ryu, j. mp x2 into super.

[Triplejjj]

Does anyone care to breakdown some of those versus Ryu matchups that Chen mentioned? I believe one of the deciding factors in those matches that make Ryu a better choice than Ken is his super, which is more versatile allround, that a slighty superior fireball game.

[karate_ghost]

in my opinion; if you want a character more advanced, then pick ken. he may host the "same qualities" as ryu, but it comes out counter-like( very slow but fast). if you want a starter char without a variety of the flashy kicks, then go for ryu. i mean kicks are stronger than punches but they come slower than a punch. that's what makes ryu more quicker than ken, but on the bad side of this is that ken can do stage comebacks if your not a supreme button masher "with smarts" (yes, there's difference).

[polarity]

in my opinion; if you want a character more advanced, then pick ken. he may host the "same qualities" as ryu, but it comes out counter-like( very slow but fast). if you want a starter char without a variety of the flashy kicks, then go for ryu. i mean kicks are stronger than punches but they come sloxer than a punch. that's what makes ryu more quicker than ken, but on the bad side of this is that ken can do stage comebacks if your not a supreme button masher "with smarts" (yes, there's difference).

what the fuck are you even talking about

[fatboy]

what the fuck are you even talking about
LOL... :lol:

[nohoho]

sloxer

[gridman]

kicks are stronger than punches lewl

[jchensor]

Does anyone care to breakdown some of those versus Ryu matchups that Chen mentioned? I believe one of the deciding factors in those matches that make Ryu a better choice than Ken is his super, which is more versatile allround, that a slighty superior fireball game.

To be honest, almost every match up I stated is due to faster fireball. Ken's slow-ass Fireball is a huge disadvantage in many of those fights. Chun Li and Cammy can pressure so much from the front, and both are adept at punishing whiffed Jab DPs. Ryu can zone them a lot easier with Fireballs. For Guile, Ryu's faster Fireball helps against Guile as well, as well as his HK Kick beating Sonic Booms. Again O.Sagat, again, the faster fireball helps him keep up with Sagat's, and Short HK Kick over Low Tiger Shots is a great way for him to advance. Vs. Honda, the faster fireball recovery lets him follow up and Sweep Honda easier after Honda tries his myriad of ways past the Jab fireball. For Dhalsim, you are correct: it's all about the Super Fireball. Both chaaracters have a hard time fighting Dhalsim, but Ryu's Super Fireball, once charged up, can cause Dhalsim to play more carefully. Otherwise, Dhalsim can just zone you with Fireballs easily. Ken has to win that fight by landing a lucky DP and going for crazy mix-ups. But once Ryu gets the Super Fireball, he has more options for getting in close (which is why it's almost important not to blow the Super Fireball for no reason against Dhalsim... hold onto it until the right moment).

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Iapetus]

jchensor knows his shit. I was just about to reply to the thread before I saw his responses that mimicked exactly what I was gonna say. :tup: Tit for tat, Ryu is a stronger character than Ken, as is evident if you watch all the serious ST tournaments.

[Eduardo24]

^^

You are a GAF mod. When you go back to gaf, tell Dragona I love her so much. She will always be my love.

[UltraDavid]

That's not to say Ryu is better in every matchup. Ken is better against Claw, Zangief, and Boxer, for example. But yeah, Ryu is better overall.

[ShinVega]

The tc's question is somewhat ambiguous.

If you're "playing to win" then of course N.Ryu is your best choice for the obvious reasons. I played N.Ryu for 2 years and he is probably the most balanced character.
I interpreted the tc's question to mean, who is better for me (the tc). I said N.Ken b/c after playing N.Ryu for so long I decided to try other characters, and found him to be much more effective. N.Ken is very difficult to master. He has many weaknesses that can be overcome if you have the patience and skills necessary to master him. I've been using him for the last 16 mos. and my "game" has dramatically increased. N.Ken is a better choice for me b/c I like his style, the skill involved to win the matches, and the requirement for fast reflexes. I'm not sure what exactly the tc meant by his question; but, I wanted to be sure to give him a good representation of what N.Ken is all about.

Not trying to flame here at all.

[jchensor]

ShinVega: 100% agreed in that regard.

I firmly beleive N.Ryu is better. But I, personally, prefer playing N.Ken by far. I do way better using N.Ken than I do N.Ryu. So N.Ken is definitely better for me. I mentioned that Ryu's base game is better and N.Ken relies more on tricks and guessing games. I LIKE tricks and guessing games. ^_^ I hate base games, which is why I've sucked with Ryu my whole life.

So yeah, I completely agree with you. N.Ryu is better in the "Playing to Win" sense. That's how I interpreted Eduardo24's question. But if you asked me for a recommendation on who "you" should use, I would never advise Ryu over Ken. It would really depend on your playing style and what you are more comfortable with.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[nohoho]

There are some technical hurdles that many would-be N.Ken players (including me, heh - can't fucking topspin) aren't willing/able to jump:

Basic
- avoiding accidental crazy kicks

It kind of bums me out when people (and there have been many) say that they use O.Ken for this reason. We're talking, what, half an hour of practice?

- cold walk up jab DPs

Not Ken specific but still a key play for him.

Intermediate
- topspin kick

Top spin (the low altitude air hk) -> super can be used in lieu of a super fireball vs. Ryu, Dhalsim, Sagat. Kind-of. Aniken argues that Ryu vs. Ken is 5-5 (!?) partly because of this. Charge the super by dp'ing through fbs?

Advanced
- short short hitconfirm super

This isn't incredibly difficult, I guess, but the key thing is that when playing a real match you need to bust this out on your first try. It's not like short short -> nothing -> wait lemme have another go.

[Goryus]

Advanced
- short short hitconfirm super

This isn't incredibly difficult, I guess, but the key thing is that when playing a real match you need to bust this out on your first try. It's not like short short -> nothing -> wait lemme have another go.

cr.mp -> link super is also a great hitconfirm, as well as a terrific throw set up if they block.

[fatboy]

There are some technical hurdles that many would-be N.Ken players (including me, heh - can't fucking topspin) aren't willing/able to jump:

Basic
- avoiding accidental crazy kicks



That is where I hit the wall... LOL:rofl:

[jchensor]

Funny. Out of all three of those you listed, Short Short Super is by far the thing that I have the most confidence in in a real match. :rofl: And accidental Crazy Kicks is one of the areas I need most help in. God I hate that code.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[ShinVega]

Just to be sure but I understand that the both of you (jchensor, and fatboy) have problems with acc. "crazy" kicks? If so the best way to prevent an accidental crazyK is to practice the motion for the three special Kicks and make sure you don't tap any K when using motions similar for P related specials. I'm sure you've thought of that; but give it a try. Learning how to use the "Crazy" kicks improved my game. "Crazy" kicks are one of the bases for combos, mix-up, and tricks. Useing the ax Kick is also very useful if you have quick eyes (for counters), and mix ups. Outside crescent is the fastest, Inside being second, and roundhouse being third. Roundhouse knocks down and has a great hitbox (counters almost all jump ins if timed correctly). Without using the funky kicks Ken is a much diff. character IMO. Still excellent, but not using 100% of potential.
I hope this helps.

[jchensor]

Nah, it's not that at all. It happens when I try to walk up and Sweep or walk up and go into Crouch Short, Crouch Short, Super. For the second one, especially, I always like to be in defensive crouch when I hit the first short (muscle memory and comfort). So while walking forward, you swing the controller from Towards down to Defensive Crouch, thus passing the stupid code for the Crazy Kick (Forward to Down) and instead of Crouch Short, you get the Crazy Kick. Happens with Sweeps, too, when you are just slightly careless and go from Towards to Down instead of Down/Foward. Capcom even knew the code sucks because it's been gone ever since ST, and never returned.

But yes, the Crazy Kicks are good moves. Though they don't really do much for Ken in the long run, having them around occsaionally is good. I mainly use the Fireball + Kick on Hit Confirmed Crouch Short, Crouch Short, Fireball + Kick (Kara Canceled) if I don't have a super. The overhead kicks are good against Zangief (can hit him from ranges where he can't SPD you). And the Yoga Flame + Kick move is great for novelty "try-this-only-one-time" tricks that if you pull off, you can get audiences to go "Oooooooohhh!" against other Shotos, but they aren't practical in any way, shape, or form.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[fatboy]

Nah, it's not that at all. It happens when I try to walk up and Sweep... http://jchensor.blogspot.com

Yeah that it my principal problem. :sweat:

Nothing is worse than seeing an opening to sweep an opponent during a game of "footsies," only to have the funky kick come out and whiff. THEN, be swept back during your funky kick whiff...:annoy:

I know every Ken player can relate to this at some point in thier past... :bluu:

[shoultzula]

I've been picking ST lately and ken is on my list to learn. Knee bash setups are definetly cheap.

Those crazy kicks are a problem, especially the inward crescent kick? f, df, d, k. When i'm walking around in my zone I tend to do that input for a c.short. It sucks that I gotta readjust my zoning with neutral inputs.

Just some questions though, I was watching daigo vs aniken(?) and I saw aniken do c.lk, s.lk, lp shoryu. I was trying to see if you can cancel s.lk and you can't. So I thought it was a link and I couldn't even get it to link.

when you guys mean n.ken, which version is that? I thought it literally meant normal mode in the AE version but theres no knee bash for that version.

does mashing the knee bash throw mess up the timing on the jump in part for
another mixup? how much life can I consistently expect from a knee bash while my opponent is mashing back to get out?

which overhead kick setup is the best to use? I like the hcf+k, hold overhead because the hcf+k knocks down on hit.

is there a practical use for the f, df, d +k?

after a knee bash, is jumping away from ken a common way for opponents to get away from the throw trap? will a fp dp always get them on the way back from the right range?

so even though ken has these funky kicks, outside of combos and maybe hcf+k as AA, theres no practical use for them? so that means when i'm zoning, I should be trying to play a ghetto ryu while trying to work my throw setups w\o risking too much?

lastly, I read about kara fireball but nothing describing how to do it and very little about its properties other than it has better recovery time I think. Also, I could of sworn I saw aniken do a kara c.rh for extra sweep range. Help?

st rocks. This game will never die!!!

[S1R D34TH]

That's not to say Ryu is better in every matchup. Ken is better against Claw, Zangief, and Boxer, for example. But yeah, Ryu is better overall.
Well thats true, I think what you guys are missing is that ryu has a much better and easier super.

[nohoho]

when you guys mean n.ken, which version is that? I thought it literally meant normal mode in the AE version but theres no knee bash for that version.
N stands for new. Old (in ssf2t, the ones without a super bar) Ken and Sagat are more popular than new in the US so you have to be explicit.

after a knee bash, is jumping away from ken a common way for opponents to get away from the throw trap? will a fp dp always get them on the way back from the right range?
I'm pretty sure you're doing something wrong if they get a chance to jump.

so even though ken has these funky kicks, outside of combos and maybe hcf+k as AA, theres no practical use for them? so that means when i'm zoning, I should be trying to play a ghetto ryu while trying to work my throw setups w\o risking too much?
Don't use that move as anti air. If you want an alternative to dragon punch, crouch rh, climbing rh -- try far standing fierce. In order to un-ghetto your Ken you have to gamble with jab dps more. If you can hit your opponent with a walk up DP right as they try to low kick you, maybe next time they'll hesitate as you're walking in.

lastly, I read about kara fireball but nothing describing how to do it and very little about its properties other than it has better recovery time I think.
IIRC when ken karas a short into a fierce fireball:
2short36+fierce
The fireball will travel quickly like a fierce but recover like a jab. This trick is a lot more important with Akuma's red fbs. Difference is pretty subtle with Ken.

Also, I could of sworn I saw aniken do a kara c.rh for extra sweep range. Help?
No clue. You probably already know that Ken and Ryu (and many characters) are "thinner" when they're standing up than when they're crouching? So, like, in that Aniken vs. Daigo series you often see them try to bait sweeps simply by standing up just out of range. That makes the counter sweeps look extra long, maybe?

I think what you guys are missing is that ryu has a much better and easier super.
Thanks for setting us straight!

[shoultzula]

thanks for the help. I actually tried playing ken the other day and I got raped. Its probably going to take more than a day and a few hours of practice to actually learn how to play off that knee bash throw.

a random q, is it impossible to xup rog while he's standing? his block animation forces him to sway back and he then moves out of the range for xups. So if they attempt to block the xup, he'll sway away from it. Should I just try to hit him in the front and not worry about those xups?

lastly, i've been reading up on the yoga book hyper i'm really digging those hit box breakdowns. Where a character moves hit box actually is and where they are vulnerable. Anyways, I was wondering if it was possible to actually do the same thing with mvc2 and get a break down of the frames like that.

I think I read an nki post saying that the cps1 had a dipswitch setup where you can view hitboxes and the people who made the yoga book hyper were given a "dev kit" from capcom so that they could view the hitboxes. Would mvc2 even be able to have that sort of feature to it? i'm hoping viewing hitboxes can be done in all capcom fighters. Marvel has funny awkward hitboxes that need to be explored as deep as ST has.

after reading about st after a few days, this game is deep. Definetly worth the time to learn to play.

[jchensor]

a random q, is it impossible to xup rog while he's standing? his block animation forces him to sway back and he then moves out of the range for xups. So if they attempt to block the xup, he'll sway away from it. Should I just try to hit him in the front and not worry about those xups?

It's tough. Very tough. Not worth trying a lot tough. Instead, use the Air Hurricane Kick. Jump so you'll land on top of him and do an Air Hurricane Kick when you start coming down. That'll propel you ever so slightly and "cross-up" with the Air Hurricane Kick. You won't be close enough for Combos or easy Throws as with a normal Cross-up, but you do set up the walk-up DP or Throw mind games. You have enough Frame Advantage after landing that you can take a step or two and make Balrog nervous. Mix between DPs, Throws, and occassional Sweeps to keep Blarog guessing from this point.

But honestly, I personally believe Balrog is a tough match for Ken. In fact, strangely enough, he's the character I fear most with Ken. I have a mental block against that Boxer, 'cause he rapes all of my favorite characters. ^_^

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[shoultzula]

i'll try that out. Air tatsu sounds like a good idea.

[Footsy Bebop]

High level Ryu (Daigo) v. Ken (Aniken) http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aniken+daigo&search=Search
Ryu pretty much owns Ken heads up.

[nohoho]

Aniken came back big time in that series. I don't think all of the vids wound up on youtube. End result Aniken 9, Daigo 11, I think.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

I mainly use the Fireball + Kick on Hit Confirmed Crouch Short, Crouch Short, Fireball + Kick (Kara Canceled) if I don't have a super. [/url]

How exactly is this done? I know how to kara the super, cSK cSK qcf qcf SK+JP(making sure the short is hit clightly before the jab). So when I read this I assumed it was probably the same thing except qcf SK+FK. But I haven't gotten it to work once. Is that how it's done? And should it be easy to pull off consistantly? If Ken has a good non-super combo off of rapid crouch shorts, that would be very very good!

[jchensor]

You have it just about right. Crouch Short, Crouch Short, Fireball + Short + Forward. Just make sure of a few things: the three presses of Short are in a rhythm (in other words, the delay between shorts should be consistent) and that you press Short VERY briefly before hitting Forward. I mean, I'm assuming you know all of this, since you can get Short, Short, Super.

I'm not sure what else to suggest. Do note, however, that this only works on standing opponents, so the only time I use it is after cross-ups, where there is a migh higher chance of hitting people while standing. Also, it's VERY easy to do the Fireball + Kick too late so that it doesn't combo. The timing is tricky, and to be honest, the combo is really not all that practical. ^_^ But you can hit confirm it on standing opponents, so it does have its uses.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[fatboy]

Aniken came back big time in that series. I don't think all of the vids wound up on youtube. End result Aniken 9, Daigo 11, I think.

if you look for my post in the vids section, you'll find a 'mega upload' link to a zip file with all the daigo v. anti ken matches FYI! :tup:

That is if anyone is interested... :wink:

[nohoho]

fatboy - Do you know what the outcome was? I have the movies but they're backed up on a CD somewhere.
I think that score I posted above was wrong.... from an earlier series they had, actually.


Oh, btw, Aniken played a series in 2005 vs. ShootingD (SBO teammate!) that he lost 4-16.

[fatboy]

fatboy - Do you know what the outcome was? I have the movies but they're backed up on a CD somewhere.
I think that score I posted above was wrong.... from an earlier series they had, actually.


Oh, btw, Aniken played a series in 2005 vs. ShootingD (SBO teammate!) that he lost 4-16.

Don't remember... BUT I'll check when I get home tonight and update you!

[nohoho]

Thanks, man.

In the meantime...
Before responding to Footsy's post I was googling a bit...
In 2006 (around the same time that those videos were made) Daigo and Aniken played a one hundred and twenty game series -- 4 sets of 30 games.

Aniken (Ken) vs. Daigo (Ryu)
May '06
set 1: 15-15
set 2: 17-13
set 3: 10-20
set 4: 7-23
total: Aniken 49 - Daigo 71

You can see how the Beast has more stamina for this type of thing. In set 2 Aniken used god mixup, bold jump-ins, topspin-reppa for the win but then he ran out of steam.

[fatboy]

Daigo v. Ani-Ken break down.

Daigo 12/ Ani-Ken 8

Misc notes:

Daigo won first 5
Daigo used 19 supers
Anti Ken used 8 supers

Ryu's super definately played a factor in his win. Anti Ken only connected on three, the rest where ticks for the win. Daigo only used a handful for ticks.

[karate_ghost]

in my opinion; if you want a character more advanced, then pick ken. he may host the "same qualities" as ryu, but it comes out counter-like( very slow but fast). if you want a starter char without a variety of the flashy kicks, then go for ryu. i mean kicks are stronger than punches but they come slower than a punch. that's what makes ryu more quicker than ken, but on the bad side of this is that ken can do stage comebacks if your not a supreme button masher "with smarts" (yes, there's difference).

what i meant by this quote, is that ken's main characteristics are kicks, i mean, his famous special other than the shoryu-reppa super is the Shippu Jinrai Kyaku. on the other hand, ryu's most famous super is the hadouken, basically a hand attack. i was putting ryu and ken in a sense of upper and lower characteristics. ken uses his lower body more, and ryu uses his upper body strength. that's what i meant by this.

[shoultzula]

any pointers vs claw w\ ryu? his jump combined with all his pokes just beat ryu everywhere. Can't throw fireballs, my footsie is limited and his damn walk\jump speed is too damn fast.

also, i'm having a crazy hard time doing low fwd super. I know the input for it but it feels awkward. Is there a trick to learn it or should I just keep slowly doing it and build my speed till I eventually get it? been trying it for a few days and haven't done it once yet. One more thing about low fwd, super, is it even possible to hit confirm off of that?

[polarity]

what i meant by this quote, is that ken's main characteristics are kicks, i mean, his famous special other than the shoryu-reppa super is the Shippu Jinrai Kyaku. on the other hand, ryu's most famous super is the hadouken, basically a hand attack. i was putting ryu and ken in a sense of upper and lower characteristics. ken uses his lower body more, and ryu uses his upper body strength. that's what i meant by this.

ok so what does this have to do with how the game plays

[jchensor]

any pointers vs claw w\ ryu? his jump combined with all his pokes just beat ryu everywhere. Can't throw fireballs, my footsie is limited and his damn walk\jump speed is too damn fast.

also, i'm having a crazy hard time doing low fwd super. I know the input for it but it feels awkward. Is there a trick to learn it or should I just keep slowly doing it and build my speed till I eventually get it? been trying it for a few days and haven't done it once yet. One more thing about low fwd, super, is it even possible to hit confirm off of that?

You sure you are doing it right? You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT do it like the newer games. Starting from Alpha, the timing of it became a lot looser. But if you are using Third Strike por Alpha or CvS2 techniques for doing the Low Forward into Super, it will not work.

So to answer the 2nd question, no, you can't hit confirm off of Low Forward. Not even close. ^_^

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[shoultzula]

You sure you are doing it right? You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT do it like the newer games. Starting from Alpha, the timing of it became a lot looser. But if you are using Third Strike por Alpha or CvS2 techniques for doing the Low Forward into Super, it will not work.

So to answer the 2nd question, no, you can't hit confirm off of Low Forward. Not even close. ^_^

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

yea I think i'm doing it right. dwn, dfwd, fwd, d+mk, dfwd, fwd+p?

what about using lowfwd @ extended range to hit limbs and buffer the super everytime? so if I missed the low fwd, the super doesn't come out and if I counter footsie a limb, super connects.

[Goryus]

yea I think i'm doing it right. dwn, dfwd, fwd, d+mk, dfwd, fwd+p?

what about using lowfwd @ extended range to hit limbs and buffer the super everytime? so if I missed the low fwd, the super doesn't come out and if I counter footsie a limb, super connects.

Doesn't really work too well, mainly because the empty fireball motion makes you bob up and down every time you try, which delays the kick and makes it reaaaaally obvious what you're trying to do.

[Bilskirnir]

Anyone know the reasoning behind the J.low punch+hurricane kick for Ken? I see Aniken does it alot but can't figure out what the deal is with it.

Or is it just a flashy move?

[ShinVega]

You can use it as a combo starter, meaty attack, and mix-up tool. If you connect j.Fierce, Tatsumaki.RH, cr.RH/foward you can use it as a pushback since it combos. There are several variations, combinations, and additions to the above combo; including super combos. Of course it's also flashy. :smile:

Post again if you want some specific scenarios.

[jchensor]

shoultzula:

Looks right, that code. Just know you have to do it fast. You can't do it slow like you can in the newer games. So do the Super fireball motion quickly. If you try and do it carefully, it will not Buffer (the Super Code just doesn't register).

Bilskirnir:

I think you mean Jumping Jab canceled into Air Hurricane Kick, right? It's an EXCELLENT setup for death, pretty much. Hahahaha... After the opponent blocks it, it's VERY hard to Reversal Throw or Reversal attack Ken walking up to grab you. He's in the driver seat at that point because he gets INCREDIBLE frame advantage upon landing. It's a good sequence because it's almost perfectly times after an immediate Jump after a Kick Throw, and it causes tick damage, sets up mind games, and if you land it, it's always at perfect height for what you want.

Definitely a good trick to know.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[karate_ghost]

ok so what does this have to do with how the game plays

the comment, is that ryu plays a lot smoother than ken due to the characteristics that i mentioned earlier. the discussion i was referring to was which one out of ken and ryu are better. if you cant get that then i cant help ya. get off my case plz, man.