Projectjustice vs SF and Pros

[Projectjustice]

Check out this vid guys. Very good fights, I hope everyone enjoys it.

http://files.filefront.com//;7705772;/

[Shep srk]

Nice work PJ your game is looking tight

[Projectjustice]

Nice work PJ your game is looking tight

Thanks dude!!!:lovin:

[rastaman]

it dont work blood...:confused:

[Projectjustice]

it dont work blood...:confused:

It works, i just tested the link. Check your web browser.

[eiSH]

Wow @ 5-6 Ken Alex. -_-; Looks like spamming the X -> UOH -> c.Forward -> Hurricane/Boot/Super works for everyone =P

SF and Pros, L2 short short Super already -_-; And you shouldn't have gotten hit with so many friggin' Chun cf.Roundhouse, wtf.

[SF and PROS]

My hit confirming ain't that hot Eeish, find it easier to hit confirm with short, jab, short, rather than short short. Another thing is that I also find it easier if I do short, short, short; however, the numbers are not that high percentage wise, I'd say I get it 30% of the time. No excuse, just need more practice.

P.S. I haven't watched the videos, but when I do I will add my own critiques of where I fucked up, so feel free to point out more flaws guys.

P.P.S. My Ken sucks!!!!!

P.P.P.S. Eeish the match you speak of (I think) PJ is using Ken, and I am using Alex. :smile:

[darkimmunity]

Awww look at Sf & Pros trying to Ex hurricane in the air like me. need more work on that bud

[SF and PROS]

Awww look at Sf & Pros trying to Ex hurricane in the air like me. need more work on that bud

EX hurricane in the air over and over is considered pretty scrubby though....lol ArtisticRage type abuse.

I finished watching the video, and I cannot believe how many fuck ups I made. Not taking any credit from PJ, but I wouldn't have taken so much damage if I hadn't tried to option select so much on wake up (low parry never came out) instead I should have simply blocked low. Ironically, whenever some of the kiddies in XBL ask me on the mic to teach them how to parry, I tell them to learn how to block low on wake up first........I feel like a douche right now.

Execution mistakes are what they are, and they would happen regardless, but not blocking low on wake up cost me a lot of matches. REMATCH!!!!!

[First To 5 Wins]

someone just got raped










actually I havent even watched the video yet :)

[Projectjustice]

I need to block better myself, watching the vids really give you a better understanding of whats going on. Its hard to remember all ur options all the time when everything takes split seconds to react on. I missed a few hit confirms but thats bound to happen. I need to react better on wake up as well. I should of been block or parrying those overheads. Those Ex hadous got me way too much as well.

[eiSH]

P.P.P.S. Eeish the match you speak of (I think) PJ is using Ken, and I am using Alex. :smile:Ken Ryu -_-; You did a couple c.Short c.Short nothing on me when we played the other day as well. And those cf.Roundhouse with Chun, you should've parried those you have all day to do whatever the hell you want and you got hit with all of them >.< :shake:

I'm surprised you weren't running as much though, you have no idea how angry I was getting that I had no life and you had 30% and you were the one running from me still >.<

[SF and PROS]

LOL You scare me that is why!! *eek* PJ and I are gonna play again tonight, this time I will bring out Urien first so that you can pour your knowledge with critiques of those matches, so please watch them.

[SuperSamyon]

Entertaining matches overall. I have a few tips that you can take if you want that may improve your game.

PJ, I notice that even though you play with SA1 your game still revolves around SA3 in that you are very conservative with your meter. I honestly can't remember the last time I had two SA1 bars stocked. With SA1, you really should be abusing some EX Fireballs to get in better position rather than just resorting to jumping in all the time. Also, crouch mk to sa1 is kind of a waste of meter since the damage you deal really isn't that impresive. Better is crouch mk to EX tatsu (decent damage for minimum bar usage) and crouch mk to Ex fireball (minor damage but you are granted with the option of setting up your position perfectly.) If you are close, crouch mk to lk Lunge is decent but if you recognize your spacing and position fast enough courch mk to FP dragon is better for damage.

Sa2 may be better for you because you are very conservative with your meter. It may improve your game if you have the fear factor of Sa2 always at the ready. That way when you do crouch mk to Super you will take off a sizeable chunk of their life.

I noticed that you also have a few patters you fall into on jumpin that are decent when your opponent blocks your jump in but useless if the jumpin connects. A few times you landed a deep rh only to follow it up with a UoH. If you get that deep RH in go ahead and follow it up with a meaty combo.

Ryu is all about maximizing your punishment situations. He has probably the most damaging non super art/ex combos in the game. Standing FP to Fierce Shoryuken gives you massive meter and takes off a huge chunk of their life. If you can't set it up in time a simple and easy to do crouch HP to RH hurricane is great for an easy punish.

Don't forget to bring out Ryu's mean tick throws and kara setups.

[Projectjustice]

Entertaining matches overall. I have a few tips that you can take if you want that may improve your game.

PJ, I notice that even though you play with SA1 your game still revolves around SA3 in that you are very conservative with your meter. I honestly can't remember the last time I had two SA1 bars stocked. With SA1, you really should be abusing some EX Fireballs to get in better position rather than just resorting to jumping in all the time. Also, crouch mk to sa1 is kind of a waste of meter since the damage you deal really isn't that impresive. Better is crouch mk to EX tatsu (decent damage for minimum bar usage) and crouch mk to Ex fireball (minor damage but you are granted with the option of setting up your position perfectly.) If you are close, crouch mk to lk Lunge is decent but if you recognize your spacing and position fast enough courch mk to FP dragon is better for damage.

Sa2 may be better for you because you are very conservative with your meter. It may improve your game if you have the fear factor of Sa2 always at the ready. That way when you do crouch mk to Super you will take off a sizeable chunk of their life.

I noticed that you also have a few patters you fall into on jumpin that are decent when your opponent blocks your jump in but useless if the jumpin connects. A few times you landed a deep rh only to follow it up with a UoH. If you get that deep RH in go ahead and follow it up with a meaty combo.

Ryu is all about maximizing your punishment situations. He has probably the most damaging non super art/ex combos in the game. Standing FP to Fierce Shoryuken gives you massive meter and takes off a huge chunk of their life. If you can't set it up in time a simple and easy to do crouch HP to RH hurricane is great for an easy punish.

Don't forget to bring out Ryu's mean tick throws and kara setups.

Thanks for the tips, I too noticed those things you mentioned. I dont burn enough Ex Hadous to position myself better on my opponent. Well try and work on those jump in meaty combos. Thanks dude!

[SF and PROS]

No pointers for me? I feel neglected all the sudden.......thanks Mala. *broken hearted*

[SuperSamyon]

No pointers for me? I feel neglected all the sudden.......thanks Mala. *broken hearted*

Well they were for both of you guys :rofl:. Best advice I can give you is to pressure more and don't let your opponent out of the corner. The way that PJ was playing his Ryu, you should have taken control early and forced him into the corner with well timed EX fireballs. Especially when he went to Sa3 and wanted to hold on to his meter more. Thats your cue to advance the action and force him to burn meter to stay competitive in the mirror match.

I can't remember if it was you or him but someone started a nasty tick throw setup and kept throwing... good! Abuse that throw! Make them get desparate so other things open up.

I guess with Ryu and Ken both of you guys were throwing UoH in a haphazzard fashion. While UoH is good for mega turtles, its effectiveness comes when you link it into a combo. Captain Denjin vs Project Justice had Captain doing a nasty UoH into FP into combo. Get them to fear the UoH more than they do the low attacks and you'll have them dead in no time:)

With the shotos, dont forget to use your LP and LK outside of tick throws and combos. LP and LK beat out the beginning frames of many moves (as they are suppose to) allowing you to mix it up and follow it up with the real juice. Something simple like crouch LK, Cr MK, Ex fireball works wonders. With shotos, don't always go for the jugular when your opponent is waking up, a simple tick throw here, a tick attack followed by a combo (to confuse your opponent into thinking another tick throw is coming) can really open up your game.

And best of all, if they are option select wakeup parry happy, manipulate it into your favor and REALLY start to abuse them. I love wakeup parry people, all you have to do is a quick 1-2 combo and they'll be taking it everytime till you FORCE them to start blocking when they wake up. Thats when you start throwing them. Ahh the frustration that they experience is wonderful and worth the renewal of xbox live alone! :rofl:

[darkimmunity]

And best of all, if they are option select wakeup parry happy, manipulate it into your favor and REALLY start to abuse them. I love wakeup parry people, all you have to do is a quick 1-2 combo and they'll be taking it everytime till you FORCE them to start blocking when they wake up. Thats when you start throwing them. Ahh the frustration that they experience is wonderful and worth the renewal of xbox live alone! :rofl:

Grr...so you ppl do get joy from giving me a frustrating time :annoy:. I hate you...lol jk

[XEN MASTER MARK]

Also, crouch mk to sa1 is kind of a waste of meter since the damage you deal really isn't that impresive. Better is crouch mk to EX tatsu (decent damage for minimum bar usage) and crouch mk to Ex fireball (minor damage but you are granted with the option of setting up your position perfectly.) If you are close, crouch mk to lk Lunge is decent but if you recognize your spacing and position fast enough courch mk to FP dragon is better for damage.

The damage off C.MK xx SA1 is decent. If you're presented with the opportunity to PUNISH with it, where nothing better will reach, you should never turn it down. Saving meter for providence is a poor strategy. You may not get a second chance!

It seems to me that ProjectJustice just needs to use the C.MK more safely. If you don't put anything risky behind it and stick with EX Hadoken, you can't go wrong. With a Hurricane, Joudan or Shoryuken you're opening yourself up to the possibility of following through on block and eating giga-blobs of damage. The EX Hadoken gives you reliable knockdowns and is completely safe. Most of the time it's even safe on block.

I cringe when I see anyone I play stick something that could be punished behind a C.MK (hit or otherwise). It's an unnecessary risk. EX Hadoken gets the job done and will almost never lead you until trouble. Save Joudan and Shoryuken for when you land a parry or a successful jump in or when your opponent makes a boo boo.


Sa2 may be better for you because you are very conservative with your meter. It may improve your game if you have the fear factor of Sa2 always at the ready. That way when you do crouch mk to Super you will take off a sizeable chunk of their life.

It would certainly suit his meter usage, but Ryu cannot afford to miss SA2. It takes a whole round to build sufficient meter and therefor you need to be extremely proficient with your hit-confirming (off a variety of normals) to avoid wasting it. C.MK xx SA2 is a very tough confirm, where there are MUCH easier options (C.LK, C.LK, close MK, F + HP). When I say 'easier' I mean, less likely to result in mis-confirmation and wasted meter.

As soon as you fill that bar, any decent opponent will lock up tighter than a Nun's crotch. You're gonna need hit confirming skills up the wazoo to get that SA2 out, because punishment openings are going to vanish there and then. Intimidation off ShinSho (100+ [out of 163] damage is not unrealistic) works too well. This results in huge pressure on your ability to confirm. Playing SA2 is putting all of your eggs in one basket.

[SuperSamyon]

[QUOTE=XEN MASTER MARK;3990588]The damage off C.MK xx SA1 is decent. If you're presented with the opportunity to PUNISH with it, where nothing better will reach, you should never turn it down. Saving meter for providence is a poor strategy. You may not get a second chance!

It seems to me that ProjectJustice just needs to use the C.MK more safely. If you don't put anything risky behind it and stick with EX Hadoken, you can't go wrong. With a Hurricane, Joudan or Shoryuken you're opening yourself up to the possibility of following through on block and eating giga-blobs of damage. The EX Hadoken gives you reliable knockdowns and is completely safe. Most of the time it's even safe on block.

I cringe when I see anyone I play stick something that could be punished behind a C.MK (hit or otherwise). It's an unnecessary risk. EX Hadoken gets the job done and will almost never lead you until trouble. Save Joudan and Shoryuken for when you land a parry or a successful jump in or when your opponent makes a boo boo.



It would certainly suit his meter usage, but Ryu cannot afford to miss SA2. It takes a whole round to build sufficient meter and therefor you need to be extremely proficient with your hit-confirming (off a variety of normals) to avoid wasting it. C.MK xx SA2 is a very tough confirm, where there are MUCH easier options (C.LK, C.LK, close MK, F + HP). When I say 'easier' I mean, less likely to result in mis-confirmation and wasted meter.

As soon as you fill that bar, any decent opponent will lock up tighter than a Nun's crotch. You're gonna need hit confirming skills up the wazoo to get that SA2 out, because punishment openings are going to vanish there and then. Intimidation off ShinSho (100+ [out of 163] damage is not unrealistic) works too well. This results in huge pressure on your ability to confirm. Playing SA2 is putting all of your eggs in one basket.QUOTE]

Im going to have to slightly disagree with you. If we are talking about crouch mk to sa1 for the kill, absolutely. But if we are talking about crouch mk to sa1 for damage that brings your opponent at half life, then no.

The reason is this. If you land crouch Mk to sa1 and it lands, but you are down to 0 meter (which was the case many times) then you are now left with the problem of trying to maintain momentum with no meter to work with. Ryu without meter is trouble through and through especially if he is fighting Ken and Ken has a few sa3 stocked. How can you stay on top of them if you can't really pressure them on wakeup? The top players dont just punish because they can, they punish and plan for the next 5 steps in the match. If you are only at 1 bar and you use it up, you are in trouble till you can charge up again. But if you see the punishment situation and you crouch Fp to Ex Lunge to Dragon, you just did the same amount of damage (more so I believe) and even BUILT up more meter. Whats the better option, crouch mk to super in punishment or Crouch FP to the rest of the jazz? You can simply do more damage without his super. HOWEVER!!! If you have two super bars stock then sure go for the crouch mk to super. But if its going to leave you empty then dont take that risk.

I didnt even touch on the fact that if you do crouch mk to to sa1 and they block it you just lost a LOT of momentum and meter. Verifying the crouch mk to SA1 is tough so most people will just be taking a chance.

The only time I unleash Sa1 is over a successfully deep UoH and thats because I want the fear factor to be in place.

As for the other moves, I was talking about punishment situations and not random situations. I would never say to do crouch mk to dragon if you were doing that on their wakeup, thats poor strategy. What I was saying was if you see the opening take it and do those moves.

Btw, crouch Mk to EX tatsu is pretty much safe against most opponents even if they block. Its great if you are fishing for damage.


Thats true and I agree. But if you noticed PJ's game he didnt really burn meter at all... which means he really doesnt even need to use the SA2 but just having it stock will add a fear factor to it. SA2 is tough to use but if he can master it he'll be that much better if he doesn't feel that EX fireballs suit his game.

One other quick note, im not sure what the damage is from crouch mk to Ex tatsu compared to crouch mk to Sa1 but im pretty sure the ex tatsu is only slightly weaker. Thats usually what I use when nothing else will reach and I want to conserve meter. I can make up for the damage without any problem once I follow up the attack.

[XEN MASTER MARK]

The top players dont just punish because they can, they punish and plan for the next 5 steps in the match.

At the very highest level I've noticed that players eliminate every risk they can. There were several cases in Coop Cup 4 where Kuroda burnt an entire bar, just to guarantee a round.

He'd be well up at 60% life whilst landing J.HP, MK, Dash punch. This would leave the opponent within a whisker of being beat. He could have stopped there, saved his meter and hoped for another opening to finish them off, but he didn't. Where this cropped up, he would always cancel the Dash Punch xx SA1 to secure the round.

Even though he was comfortably ahead. Even though he could have saved the bar for round two.

Perfects happen. Any opening you get is potentially your last.

[SuperSamyon]

At the very highest level I've noticed that players eliminate every risk they can. There were several cases in Coop Cup 4 where Kuroda burnt an entire bar, just to guarantee a round.

He'd be well up at 60% life whilst landing J.HP, MK, Dash punch. This would leave the opponent within a whisker of being beat. He could have stopped there, saved his meter and hoped for another opening to finish them off, but he didn't. Where this cropped up, he would always cancel the Dash Punch xx SA1 to secure the round.

Even though he was comfortably ahead. Even though he could have saved the bar for round two.

Perfects happen. Any opening you get is potentially your last.

I think it also depends on the character we are talking about. Q doesn't get openings and he can live without EX moves. His game revolves around a good defense and smart command throws.

The difference between the two is that with Ryu, had he been in the same situation it would have been better for him to have done and ex move to almost kill him and then when they are waking up to setup a wakeup scenario that gives him the win.

Of course its a risk, but its a calculated risk since the next round he'll start out with more bar and won't be at such a disadvantage.

My thinking is this: it makes no difference if you win one rounnd or lose both of them, if you dont win the match it didnt matter. So by taking that risk I may lose the match in the long run if my gamble doesnt pay off, but if it does pay off I have a better chance to win the next round as well.

Its like the saying: You won the battle but lost the war.

For certain matchups it may be wise just to grab a round and be done with it (like against yun or chun) but most of the time im playing meter manager as well as street fighter.

[XEN MASTER MARK]

I can't help but think that when you suggested combos for damage off of C.MK you had in mind some kind of hit and hope mentality. Gambling, if you will. You have since said that you were thinking of punishment scenarios, but in a proper punishment scenario all of the combos you've listed are moot.

Punishing off C.MK should go something like C.MK, HP Shoryuken xx SA1. Better still, land HP initially then HP Shoryuken xx SA1. Or HP, EX Joudan, HP Shoruyken if you lack meter. I wouldn't dream of squandering a punishment scenario with something like C.MK, EX Hurricane. Whatever you retaliate with in a punishment situation is guaranteed to hit. That's where you can safely bring out the big guns and maximize your damage output. It's what you've been saving meter for all round.

Also keep in mind that if you don't super in punishment scenarios, you opponent can still tech roll.

[avjgtfusion]

I can't help but think that when you suggested combos for damage off of C.MK you had in mind some kind of hit and hope mentality. Gambling, if you will. You have since said that you were thinking of punishment scenarios, but in a proper punishment scenario all of the combos you've listed are moot.

Punishing off C.MK should go something like C.MK, HP Shoryuken xx SA1. Better still, land HP initially then HP Shoryuken xx SA1. Or HP, EX Joudan, HP Shoruyken if you lack meter. I wouldn't dream of squandering a punishment scenario with something like C.MK, EX Hurricane. Whatever you retaliate with in a punishment situation is guaranteed to hit. That's where you can safely bring out the big guns and maximize your damage output. It's what you've been saving meter for all round.

Also keep in mind that if you don't super in punishment scenarios, you opponent can still tech roll.



no, never c. mk hp shoryu xx SA1. SA1 whiffs after a hp shoryu, better with lp shoryu, but I prefer just to cancel it straight off of c. mk. If you're in the position to land a cr. mk into shroyu anything you really shouldn't be punishing with that in the first place. If you have bar, and you are in range to punish with cr. mk, it's a good idea to punish with cr. mk xx SA1. Saving meter is a poor strategy, you should be whiffing medium punches to build meter with ryu all day anyway. good players rarely give you clear cut punishment opportunities, so take advantage of them with the most damaging option.

If you're punishing with cr. mk with no full bars go with c. mk HK tatsu if the opponent is standing, it has more damage than ex tatsu and doesn't burn meter. If the opponent is out of range and there is possibility of crouching, its always safest to go with cr. mk ex hadou, minimum meter, guaranteed knockdown, and safe if you're late, ex tatsu misses when you're not close enough, is a waste of meter, and isn't safe.

Best guaranteed punisher for ryu will always be HP, EX Joudan, HP Shoryu/HK tatsu/ jab reset into whatever, without meter it's HP, HP shoryu. Hp medium joudan does less damage but has a good amount of stun as well. In the corner it may be preferable to punish with cr. mk xx SA1, because you can reset or juggle with an additional SA1.

For the most part i like what is being said, but as a Ryu player i felt i had to correct some things.

[avjgtfusion]

Btw, crouch Mk to EX tatsu is pretty much safe against most opponents even if they block. Its great if you are fishing for damage[/COLOR].


.

cr. mk ex tatsu will have you eating Ken's SA3 all day against better players.

[
One other quick note, im not sure what the damage is from crouch mk to Ex tatsu compared to crouch mk to Sa1 but im pretty sure the ex tatsu is only slightly weaker. Thats usually what I use when nothing else will reach and I want to conserve meter. I can make up for the damage without any problem once I follow up the attack.

cr. mk xx SA1 has over 10 points of damage over cr mk ex tatsu. The difference is huge. cr. mk HK tatsu has more damage than ex tatsu, most people don't realize that.

[SuperSamyon]

cr. mk ex tatsu will have you eating Ken's SA3 all day against better players.



cr. mk xx SA1 has over 10 points of damage over cr mk ex tatsu. The difference is huge. cr. mk HK tatsu has more damage than ex tatsu, most people don't realize that.

You know I never really knew if Ken could SA3 after a blocked EX tatsu. No one has ever done that before to me lol.

That is true that HK Tatsu hurts more than EX tatsu, but HK tatsu doesn't hit crouching opponents so its usefullness is limited. If the crouch mk connects EX Tatsu is assured whereas with the HK you are left flying around. Although thats actually not too bad of a scenario either with the HK Tatsu since usually you will fly to safety if you are in the middle of the ring. In the corner its suicide though.

LK tatsu does hit a few crouching opponents(Urien, Hugo, Akuma which is odd and a few others) but if its blocked you are in trouble.

Xen: While its true that crouch MK to HP dragon hurts more than the other things, often times you will not be close enough to land the dragon which is why you have to remember the other options.

[Shadowstep]

The hell with all this...Where are the Akuma tips Master Magu!!!

[XEN MASTER MARK]

Xen: While its true that crouch MK to HP dragon hurts more than the other things, often times you will not be close enough to land the dragon which is why you have to remember the other options.

In my opinion, C.MK x EX Hadoken and C.MK xx SA1 are the other options. I'm at work now, so I can't do any testing, but I have a funny feeling it's possible (and likely) to hit C.MK and still whiff the EX Hurricane.

Note also that C.MK x EX Hadoken and C.MK xx SA1 work against crouching opponents in every scenario.

I stand by what I've said; I disagree that the combos you've listed offer the best damage and safety, either up close or from max range. Nor do they seem the most versatile. If you wanted bang per buck for minimum meter, then up close you'd use HP, HP Shoryuken and C.MK ex Hadoken from afar, as others have said. But then, where would you use this meter you're so diligently saving?

I'll check when I get home. I'll post some damage numbers too. I've got nothing else to do tonight. I don't have anything I want to prove with the numbers - the only thing we disagree on is that C.MK into a few things are viable as punishment. This stems from your conservative meter strategy (or so it seems) and my strategy which is to hit as hard as possible and not assume further punishment opportunities will appear.

[SuperSamyon]

In my opinion, C.MK x EX Hadoken and C.MK xx SA1 are the other options. I'm at work now, so I can't do any testing, but I have a funny feeling it's possible (and likely) to hit C.MK and still whiff the EX Hurricane.

Note also that C.MK x EX Hadoken and C.MK xx SA1 work against crouching opponents in every scenario.

I stand by what I've said; I disagree that the combos you've listed offer the best damage and safety, either up close or from max range. Nor do they seem the most versatile. If you wanted bang per buck for minimum meter, then up close you'd use HP, HP Shoryuken and C.MK ex Hadoken from afar, as others have said. But then, where would you use this meter you're so diligently saving?

I'll check when I get home. I'll post some damage numbers too. I've got nothing else to do tonight. I don't have anything I want to prove with the numbers - the only thing we disagree on is that C.MK into a few things are viable as punishment. This stems from your conservative meter strategy (or so it seems) and my strategy which is to hit as hard as possible and not assume further punishment opportunities will appear.

We actually agree more than you think because I usually do crouch MK to EX hadou on punishment. Its just that sometimes when I recognize the distance and spacing I do crouch mk to ex tatsu instead for that little extra UMPH which is something you can relate to since you are about maximizing your attack. Or I may mix up a crouch mk to lk lunge if im on empty.

My point is that its a good idea to know whats out there that way if you DO NOT have meter you can know your other non-meter options (which is what I listed). I just sometimes substitute crouch mk to ex hado to crouch mk to ex tatsu when I see that I can. In that area we are alike in that we try to maximize our attack.

Where our Ryu's differ is that im more conservative and you seem to be more blast heavy. Nothing wrong with either strategy if it works. Its proven to be very effective for me and I've seen much success with it.

To answer your other question of why I save meter, the answer is this. I conserve meter so that when i finally get someone in the corner I can take away their life to nothing in no time. I think thats what makes people remember my Ryu (and why they lose to him :rofl:) because once I get you in the corner, its hard to get out. Thats why I explode on the meter and just blast away. Until then, Im conservative till I can footsie you into your own corner. I've found that by having about 2 ex moves at the ready at all times I can usually do more damage in the long run as oppose to just evaporating the meter in one attack. Of course this strategy is harder and not as safe but I think its a better strategy in my opinion.

I do use SA1 if I can set it up with a UoH but that is moreso used as a tool for my corner game then for its damage. I feel that its just a little bit of sugar that helps the medicine go down (medicine being my mixups and the suger being the UoH to super:))

[SF and PROS]

Reminds me of Shinshay sensei when he got me in the corner and had me hanging onto my life with non stop reversal pokes, ex hadous, and grabs.....that guy never unleashed an SA1 (probably because he is an EX hadou whore) on me all the times we played. I want to play Malaguena now too! :bgrin:

[rastaman]

i find ex hadou way more useful then SA1 ...if i pick SA1 its because of EX hadou option... it adds firepower to damn there every situation wit ryu. just my Opinion

[avjgtfusion]

In my opinion, C.MK x EX Hadoken and C.MK xx SA1 are the other options. I'm at work now, so I can't do any testing, but I have a funny feeling it's possible (and likely) to hit C.MK and still whiff the EX Hurricane.


.

ex tatsu whiffs at max cr. mk range.

[HarmoNaz]

Get used to crouching Fierce into EX donkey as punishment off parries and whatever.

EX bar as punishment - ONLY use EX donkey kick.

EX hadou is an incredible zoning tool. Try not to use it any other way. Watch how Alex Valle uses it.

cr.mk into HK tatsu is same damage as cr.mk into fierce dragon :wink:

Don't use ground EX tatsu AT ALL. I've only seen Ruu use it once in tournament play and it got red parried... Use it in the air when its a parry situation or you need to 'hover' in the air for a few moments - for example let that lag abusers full screen denjin slip by underneath you :rofl:

I'm sure you've already reached a point where you make decisions on whether to use a super in a given situation or just save it and go with another combo. In the same way you need to start thinking about EX moves - SPECIALLY with Ryu. True - at certain ranges cr.mk will ONLY combo into either EX hadou or EX tatsu. If you HAVE to combo it, go for EX hadou since you can chase them after the knockdown much better than you could with the tatsu. Unless I'm desperate, I wont combo into either. Think about it - when someone eats a cr.mk they're expecting a combo - you get a few moments in which you can walk up to them and close the distance further - which is Ryu's only way to win. Plus the surprise factor might make them do something silly.

[XEN MASTER MARK]

Notes:

HP Shoryuken after EX Joudan does 5 points less damage if you do it too early.
HP and C.HP result in the same damage for all combos.
F+HP opens up possibilities on crouching opponents. Didn't bother to test this.
All figures are for Ryu vs Ryu on the XBox version of 3S.
All references to HP should have been CLOSE HP. Sorry.

Most damaging move for group using meter
Most damaging move for group without meter


Standing opponent (minimal meter):
----------------------------------------------
HP, HP Shoryuken = 41
HP, EX Shoryuken = 43

HP, MK Joudan = 37
HP, EX Joudan, HP Shoryuken = 55
HP, EX Joudan, EX Shoryuken = 57
HP, EX Joudan, HK Hurricane = 55
HP, EX Joudan, HK Joudan = 54
HP, EX Joudan, EX Joudan = 49

HP, Hadoken = 26
HP, EX Hadoken = 33

HP, HK Hurricane = 41
HP, EX hurricane = 40

CLOSE MP, HK Hurricane = 39
CLOSE MP, EX Hadoken = 31
CLOSE MP, LK Joudan = 32

CLOSE MK, EX Hadoken = 31
CLOSE MK, MK Joudan = 35
CLOSE MK, HK Hurricane = 39
CLOSE MK, EX Hurricane = 42

MP, MK Hurricane = 37

C.MP, EX Hadoken = 28
C.MP, Hadoken = 21
C.MP, HK Hurricane = 36
C.MP, EX Hurricane = 34
C.MP, HP Shoryuken = 36
C.MP, EX Shoryuken = 38

C.MK, EX Hadoken = 26
C.MK, Hadoken = 19
C.MK, HK Hurricane = 34
C.MK, EX Hurricane = 31
C.MK, HP Shoryuken = 34
C.MK, EX Shoryuken = 36


Crouching opponent (Minimal meter):
-----------------------------------------------
HP, HP Shoryuken = 51
HP, EX Shoryuken = 51

HP, Joudan HK = 49. (CROUCH ONLY)

HP, EX Joudan, HP Shoryuken = 63
HP, EX Joudan, EX Shoryuken = 65
HP, EX Joudan, HK Hurricane = 63
HP, EX Joudan, HK Joudan = 62
HP, EX Joudan, EX Joudan = 57

HP, Hadoken = 32
HP, EX Hadoken = 41

HP, HK Hurricane = WHIFF
HP, EX hurricane = WHIFF

CLOSE MP, HK Hurricane = WHIFF
CLOSE MP, EX Hadoken = 39
CLOSE MP, LK Joudan = 40

CLOSE MK, EX Hadoken = 39
CLOSE MK, HK Joudan = 47
CLOSE MK, EX Hurricane = 48

MP, LK Hurricane = WHIFF
MP, MK Hurricane = WHIFF
MP, MK Hurricane = WHIFF
MP, EX Hurricane = WHIFF

C.MP, EX Hadoken = 35
C.MP, Hadoken = 26
C.MP, HK Hurricane = WHIFF
C.MP, EX Hurricane = 44
C.MP, HP Shoryuken = 45
C.MP, EX Shoryuken = 44!?!

C.MK, EX Hadoken = 33
C.MK, Hadoken = 24
C.MK, HK Hurricane = WHIFF
C.MK, EX Hurricane = 44
C.MK, HP Shoryuken = 43
C.MK, EX Shoryuken = 42


Standing Opponent (Full meter):
-----------------------------------------
CLOSE HP, SA1 = 54
MP, SA1 = 52
CLOSE MP, SA1 = 54
CLOSE MK, SA1 = 54
C.MP, SA1 = 51
C.MK, SA1 = 49

HP, HP Shoryuken, SA1 = WHIFF
HP, EX Shoryuken, SA1 = 45 - 50 varies by position.

HP, EX Joudan, LP, SA1 = 37 + 26 (63)
HP, Hadoken, SA1 = 52
HP, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 53

HP, EX hurricane, SA1, HP Shoryuken = 57 corner only.

CLOSE MP, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 52
CLOSE MP, MP Shoryuken, SA1 = 61

CLOSE MK, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 52
CLOSE MK, MP Shoryuken, SA1 = 61
CLOSE MK, EX Hurricane, SA1, EX Shoyuken = 54 (corner only)

C.MP, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 49
C.MP, Hadoken, SA1 = 49
C.MP, EX Hurricane, SA1 = 45
C.MP, MP Shoryuken, SA1 = 58
C.MP, EX Shoryuken, SA1 = 44 (misses several hits)

C.MK, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 44
C.MK, Hadoken, SA1 = 47
C.MK, EX Hurricane, SA1 = 42
C.MK, EX Shoryuken, SA1 = 39


Crouching opponent (Full meter):
------------------------------------------
CLOSE HP, SA1 = 68
MP, SA1 = 67
CLOSE MP, SA1 = 69
CLOSE MK, SA1 = 69
C.MP, SA1 = 65
C.MK, SA1 = 63

HP, MP Shoryuken, SA1 = 74
HP, EX Shoryuken, SA1 = 53

HP, EX Joudan, LP, SA1 = 45 + 24 (69)
HP, Hadoken, SA1 = 64
HP, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 61

CLOSE MP, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 60
CLOSE MP, MP Shoryuken, SA1 = 70

CLOSE MK, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 60
CLOSE MK, MP Shoryuken, SA1 = 70
CLOSE MK, EX Hurricane, SA1 = 59(corner only)

C.MP, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 56
C.MP, Hadoken, SA1 = 61
C.MP, EX Hurricane, SA1 = 55
C.MP, MP Shoryuken, SA1 = 70
C.MP, EX Shoryuken, SA1 = 47 (misses several hits)

C.MK, EX Hadoken, SA1 = 54
C.MK, Hadoken, SA1 = 59
C.MK, EX Hurricane, SA1 = 52
C.MK, EX Shoryuken, SA1 = 45

[avjgtfusion]

good shit, nice to have that data all written out like that. Id rep you if I could.

One thing you might want to add is Hp Ex joudan, lp, ex shoryu. It's ryu's most damaging combo. I rarely do it, though.

damage is good, but stun is also something you also want to take into consideration. too bad there are no actual numbers for it. I chose to punish with medium joudan sometimes because of stun.

[NG1313]

EX hurricane should be good for stun damage. Although it won't connect after a max range close HP, but instead MK... so you lose the life bar/ stun bar damage of the HP. But it lets them get up faster, which works out fine since it's less time for their stun bar to recover.

[SuperSamyon]

Terrific work Xen! Thanks for putting it down on paper for us.

After seeing the damage difference between crouch mk to ex tatsu vs crouch mk to sa1, I still think the EX tatsu is the better alternative (if in range) because you only lose about 7 points of damage but I believe you get more stun and you only lose a little bit of bar. Its a great tradeoff in my opinion because if you follow it up with another successful crouch mk to ex tatsu you've pretty much double the damage for the same amount of bar. Also you still have ex moves available after the ex tatsu whereas the sa1 you are on empty.

Still, to each his own and with Xen's work here people can decide how they wish to play Ryu.

[Shadowstep]

All this talk about Ryu makes me want to use him now:wonder:

[ROCKMAN]

Just watch,is it me or nobody was blocking,super flying everywhere,Not a single mind game.Block shoryus punish by a throw???No footsies, denji supers being counter by shoryu wtf??..i need a drink, that vid made angels cry:sad:

[SF and PROS]

Constructive as always buddy? You're one of the guys that amuses me here anyway, so keep dishing them, most of your comments are right on anyway.

[ROCKMAN]

Nah man no hate.i'm serious.PJ plays different with chun he blocks and shit,but nobody there was blocking or countering with anything other then throws and stuff was flying everywhere. I wasn't trying to be an a-hole.My bad:sad:

[SF and PROS]

Don't worry about it, I wasn't being spiteful either. I love the way you remind people they suck, it's like a bucket full of ice cold water thrown at a scrub's face. Myself included, since I know I suck, but as I always say: "I suck just a less than the rest." If you seen the videos you can see that both PJ and I missed a lot of things, and I am first to admit that option selecting way too much on wake up fucked me up royally, and the amount of Cr Forwards into shippu I ate was ridiculous. As far as mind games, I tried getting into a little tick throwing frenzy a couple of times, but frankly I was scared shitless of the UOH that PJ's since I would eat the cr forward into shippu if I left myself open after them. Working on a few things so I can be ready for T8, and quitting live as of this upcoming friday to focus on offline timing adaptation.

[Capn Spanky]

I need to block better myself, watching the vids really give you a better understanding of whats going on. Its hard to remember all ur options all the time when everything takes split seconds to react on. I missed a few hit confirms but thats bound to happen. I need to react better on wake up as well. I should of been block or parrying those overheads. Those Ex hadous got me way too much as well.

Actually, the thing i noticed most was your Denjin Setups. It seemed like everything you tried got stopped by SF and Pros. Your SA 1 Ryu is excellent. There is no way I could play Ryu like that and you did a very good job with it. The thing I noticed consistently though, was range, release, and activation of your Denjins. Alot of the time it seemed like you were overeager to use the Super and that gave SF the opening to escape. That or you wanted to charge for the extra hit and ended up getting stuffed.

Examples: 2 - 3 Ryu v. Ryu (Round two) - You scored a knockdown and started charging the super. Instead of releasing, you continued to charge. SF did a wakeup ex Shoryu and stuffed your super. Now, I know releasing it at that point would have only gotten you about two hits, but the super was already started and I would have gone for the two hits instead of getting hit. Also, would anyone else say this was a matter of spacing too? I didn't think it was, but a second opinion would help.

Other example 2 - 3 Ryu v. Ryu (round three) - You got your meter for Denjin. That's good. You didn't set up for Denjin. That's what went wrong. I have a feeling you saw that you only had one combo til the game was over and tried to use your super to even the match. I also have a feeling that SF was expecting the super. In a situation like that, use the meter, but not on Denjin. An Ex- Shoryu would have shut down the jump in and Using EX Hadou on his wakup would probably have finished him.

Round 4 was done well. He rolled right out into a Denjin. Nothing more nothing less, you set up well.

After you warmed up some with Denjin you did well. Fun games to watch and an exciting comeback from Justice on Game 9.

edit: Oh, and SF and Pros. Watching you win with Alex was cool. I don't think I've seen Alex beat Ken in a loooong time.

[SF and PROS]

Examples: 2 - 3 Ryu v. Ryu (Round two) - You scored a knockdown and started charging the super. Instead of releasing, you continued to charge. SF did a wakeup ex Shoryu and stuffed your super. Now, I know releasing it at that point would have only gotten you about two hits, but the super was already started and I would have gone for the two hits instead of getting hit. Also, would anyone else say this was a matter of spacing too? I didn't think it was, but a second opinion would help.

It was a jab shoryu actually, and going for the dp and that point was a gamble. To be honest I was trying to see if Ryu's dragon would go under the denjin. :smile: But then just released it as soon as I did the quick stand.

Other example 2 - 3 Ryu v. Ryu (round three) - You got your meter for Denjin. That's good. You didn't set up for Denjin. That's what went wrong. I have a feeling you saw that you only had one combo til the game was over and tried to use your super to even the match. I also have a feeling that SF was expecting the super. In a situation like that, use the meter, but not on Denjin. An Ex- Shoryu would have shut down the jump in and Using EX Hadou on his wakup would probably have finished him.

Actually this was one of thos moments of adrenaline kicking in, as I was doing a jump in, seeing if PJ would either throw and anti air, so that I could parry or land a deep rh kick, I saw denjin and did a tatsu, since I know that it gives the shotos a bit of a boost in the air. I was expecting the tatsu to either cross him over and hit him, or me land at a safe distance behind him.

Round 4 was done well. He rolled right out into a Denjin. Nothing more nothing less, you set up well.

What round 4?

After you warmed up some with Denjin you did well. Fun games to watch and an exciting comeback from Justice on Game 9.

Fucking UOHs into cr forward had me scared that I ended up eating way too many of those anyway.

edit: Oh, and SF and Pros. Watching you win with Alex was cool. I don't think I've seen Alex beat Ken in a loooong time.

That was pretty sweet I agree. Although I should have been blocking low on wakeup specially knowing PJ's patterns, and you can see me whiff a few parriestoo.

[Capn Spanky]

Hah. I think I meant round 3. Sorry.