n00b wants to build his first stick

[m1lk]

oaky, I've been lurking on this forum and I have a few questions to ask. If my questions where answered someone else on this forum please link me up.

1). I am having a difficult time finding sites that I can purchase sanwa/japense parts from. So far all I can find is mail order catalogs in china. A link to wherever you guys go will be much appreciated.

2). Are Happ sticks/buttons THAT bad? At the moment they seem like the best sticks that the USA has to offer. If Happs aren't extremely inferior to Japanese parts i'll just go with them cause they seem easier to get my hands on at the moment. back in the day I had no problems with arcade sticks (I was a big Alpha 2 and darkstalkers player in the day)

3). I play on the ps2 and ps3 most of the time, and when Virtua fighter 5 comes out for the 360 i'm probably gonna be playing on the 360 by then (ps3 is arcade version b, 360 will be version c.) what kinda controller do you guys recomend I mod? Ps2 or an xbox controller? I'm thinking an xbox controller cause its a USB interface, so conversion would be easier (or at least in theory.)


much thanks in advance

[tl613]

1. Check the *NEW* Essential Joystick Thread.

2. Happ stuff isn't bad, Sanwa and Seimitsu is just the overall preference. If you've only played in US arcades then get Happ because that is what you are used to. But on a personal note I grew up on Happ but since I got a HRAP2 in December I swear by Sanwa.

3. If you really want to play on XBox 360 then use an XBox 360 controller. The only controller adapter from PS to X360 is the XFPS which is expensive and not all that great.

[zombie cpt]

http://www.lizardlick.com/

That is a good place for happs and sanwa stuff(super quick shipping, usually 3-4 days if the parts in stock.) The downside is that the selection is kind of limited right now but I think the owner said they will get more stuff in.

[m1lk]

i really like lizardlick.com, but i have another n00b question.

I plan on making my stick with extra ply-wood and plexi-glass. and none of the sanwa buttons look long enough to be able to fit, i'm going to have a good quarter to a half an inch of material to go through. any recomendations?


here are teh buttons i speak of
http://lizardlick.com/images/for_sale/pushbuttons/sanwa_obsn24_blue.jpg
http://lizardlick.com/images/for_sale/pushbuttons/sanwa_obsn30_green.jpg
http://lizardlick.com/images/for_sale/pushbuttons/obsf_24_b.jpg
http://lizardlick.com/images/for_sale/pushbuttons/sanwa_obsf30_blue.jpg

[tl613]

Sanwa buttons are meant more for metal control panels which are a lot thinner than wood. You would probably be better off going with Happ Competition buttons instead.

[Toodles]

Don't. Just don't. If you try to build one, it'll suck, you'll want to build another, you'll be buying all these tools, that one sucked too so you make another and another getting a little better each time but never actually making you happy and you've spent over $1k before you know what happened.

Figure out what you want, and have someone else make it. You will NOT be able to build cheaper than you can buy on your first stick and get anything near as good.

[PuppetXMaster]

Sanwa buttons are meant more for metal control panels which are a lot thinner than wood. You would probably be better off going with Happ Competition buttons instead.

Exactly, if you actually get made by someone else you'll definitely learn quicker that way cuz you can study the insides and take it apart/put it back together. That's when questioning here comes to play.Well thats how learn things at least.

[m1lk]

i've taken apart plenty of hori controllers and remapped them and what not. Another year of college and i'm going to be playing with circuits for a living. (yayyy electronics engineering technician career) so in terms of circuitry i'm solid. I just wanted to make sure happ isn't as bad as some of my teamates tell me. I just failed to realize that sanwa buttons are as short as they are because quite frankley, i have no experience with them.

right now my biggest dilemma is figuring out the best way to build the housing. That much i'm willing to bet i can figure out how to do by the advice from this site (it may not be pretty, but it will work goddamnit!). But I already asked that question in a different thread.

[Numbski]

I have to concur with these guys. If not for the fact that I've done work on full arcade cabinets, my stick-making abilities would blow, and even now they aren't all that great, as there are still tools to buy (ie, I still use a roto-zip instead of a plunge router...bleh, can't measure accurately at all!).

At very least get the box made elsewhere. The rest you can probably handle.

[m1lk]

I have to concur with these guys. If not for the fact that I've done work on full arcade cabinets, my stick-making abilities would blow, and even now they aren't all that great, as there are still tools to buy (ie, I still use a roto-zip instead of a plunge router...bleh, can't measure accurately at all!).

At very least get the box made elsewhere. The rest you can probably handle.

In that case, where could I get my hands on a box?

[shoo]

In that case, where could I get my hands on a box?

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=131127

[djfunkshun]

I am also looking to build my first stick.(getting that out of the way) But i have no experience working with wood. I do however have plenty of practice with aluminum and a welder, not to mention wiring. Any suggestions

[Numbski]

Metric hole punches, box and pan bender. Bend up a box of reasonable dimensions. The original Jap cabs were sheet metal, so everything should go smoothly.

[fantasticbulbasaur]

Another newbie here; what about mounting Sanwa parts on wood? I'm thinking about ordering parts from Lizard Lick for a two-man Sanwa stick and I'm looking at the OBSNs (both sizes, I gather that it's better for wood than the OBSFs). How do you get the mounting nuts into the wood? What's a good thickness? Is it worth putting plexiglass on the front, and what kind of adjustments does that entail? What model of Sanwa joystick would I want for a digital PS1 padhack?

I'm at my parent's house for the summer and my dad has a table saw and drill press, so the woodwork should be simple.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Green]

Nothing wrong with Happ parts.

[fantasticbulbasaur]

Nothing wrong with Happ parts.

Haha, I can guess your preference. :bgrin: I've played on arcade machines with both American and Japanese-style parts and I vastly prefer the Japanese; and it sounds like Sanwa is the way to go if you like ball-top sticks and convex buttons. Should I use a metal surface instead if I want to go Sanwa?

[Numbski]

Mounting in wood you have 3 options:

1. Cut a hole, route it, and set a metal plate into the hole. (This is what I do.)
2. Drill normal button holes, route out the bottom of the holes such that the thickness if greatly reduced.
3. Cut a hole as in option one, but cover with artwork and plexi, and pretend. :D

[Green]

Haha, I can guess your preference. :bgrin: I've played on arcade machines with both American and Japanese-style parts and I vastly prefer the Japanese; and it sounds like Sanwa is the way to go if you like ball-top sticks and convex buttons. Should I use a metal surface instead if I want to go Sanwa?
I have no preference for the sticks themselves, but I prefer Competition buttons.

[XorXe-YaGaMi]

I take this thread to make a cuestion:

Anyone have the Byrdo Blueprint for a Small Sanwa Case?

Byrdo update his website, and the blueprint image dont exist in the site :(

[Mikhal]

I take this thread to make a cuestion:

Anyone have the Byrdo Blueprint for a Small Sanwa Case?

Byrdo update his website, and the blueprint image dont exist in the site :(
Here ya go.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/e7hajf

[XorXe-YaGaMi]

Thanks ^^!

[fantasticbulbasaur]

1. Cut a hole, route it, and set a metal plate into the hole. (This is what I do.)

This sounds solid. I also saw your 4-man stick in another thread and it looks pretty teriffic. Do you use snap-in or screw-in buttons? Does the diameter of the holes in the metal plate match that of the holes in the wood? How does it work if you put Lexan or something over the top? What thickness of wood do you usually use?

[CoffeeAnon]

So essentially, I can't build a Sanwa box without either experience in metalworking or a wood router?

[Chaosdragon13]

So essentially, I can't build a Sanwa box without either experience in metalworking or a wood router?

Not totally true.

My stick with Sanwa parts was bottom mounted on the top panel. The only thing is that you have to make sure that with your top panel and plexi you will still have enough of the stick's shaft above the controller.

For me I used 1/8" plexi and some sort of ply wood type material I had laying around which was about 5/16". Bottom mounting it like this left 24-25mm (which someone mentioned in the sanwa/seimitsu faq topic) of the shaft above the top.

The only thing is that when you screw into the wood piece of the top panel the screws will poke through the other side. So what I did was find the shortest screws that would fit and then cut the end poking though with a cutting disc and a dremel.

Also, even though there isnt much wood that you are screwing into, it still holds it very well. In fact I only have two screws in my sanwa and it holds it tight.

[Taskmaster]

Anyone can help me out with the wiring. I have several PS1 DS's ( the right ones too), and have the buttons ( sanwas) and a sanwa JLF.

I'm using QDs, so is there a FAQ available, or some high quality pics showing where evrything goes.

Still looking for a way to keep the PCB in place too.

I really need this since the case is done and the first layer of paint's already drying.

Also, should the stick be wired to the D-Pad ( makes sense?) or somehow to the left analog?

[Steve F]

Haha I like how this is becoming the "Ask an expert-type" thread...
I'm pretty sure there is a controller modding thread that will answer alot of your questions, Taskmaster.
In response to the debate whether any button or stick is better than any other, it's just a matter of preference of feeling of each one. Yes, Happ parts can be found more cheaper and easier in the US, but there are a lot of good places that import it for you. No matter what you use, if you can easily hit Up, Down, Left, Right and any button you need to easily, then what does it matter what type you use?

[Taskmaster]

Yeah, I'll go through the padhacking thread.

You just dont understand hoiw lazy I am, that's why I asked here.

In any case, I'm glad I have 3 DS1s, so if I fuck up I can start over.

[Numbski]

This sounds solid. I also saw your 4-man stick in another thread and it looks pretty teriffic. Do you use snap-in or screw-in buttons? Does the diameter of the holes in the metal plate match that of the holes in the wood? How does it work if you put Lexan or something over the top? What thickness of wood do you usually use?

I know I'm answering a *really* old post here, sorry. :)

I was going to use snap-ins. In fact I bought 32 snap-ins, only to find 20AWG steel + 1/8" plexi was too thick, so I had to go back and buy 32 screw-ins. Done properly you *can* use snapins though. Double and triple check your math! I suggest getting 1 snap in, and test the depth of everything before buying in bulk.

Anyhoo, what I did was this - I drew my layout on 3/4" plywood, making sure I was happy with all dimensions. I went so far as to color in everything to be triple sure:

http://www.numbski.com/cab/Arcade%20Machine_files/AUT_6508.jpg

Then I placed the plates over the drawing to make sure it lined up, and traced the box. I went back and measured 1/2" in from all sides of the plate edge on the plywood and cut that out. Aftwards, I took a 1/2" router bit and routed out an inset. Since I didn't actually own a router at the time, I couldn't get everything level, so I went back and used bondo to bring the plates flush:

http://www.numbski.com/cab/Arcade%20Machine_files/AUT_6518.jpg

That prevents the plexi from flexing downwards. So far as the diameter of the holes - in my case, they do, but for all of the wrong reasons. DO NOT follow my example in this regard! The right way to do this is after you draw everything onto the plywood and BEFORE you cut the location for the button plates, go buy your plexi. Clamp the plexi to the plywood, then drill the holes that will be holding the plexi to the plywood. Screw the two together. Now, while screwed together, take a reasonably small drill bit (1/8" or smaller) and drill a pilot hole through the center of each button hole, and the center of each joystick. Seperate the two.

Now, you have two options to make sure your button holes are the right size. The first is to make sure you have the right sized metric hole saw AND metric forstner bit, which I believe is 20mm for the joystick hole, and 30mm for the buttons (check the essential thread for sure), and use the forstner to drill the holes SLOWLY in the plexi. Use the hole saw to drill the holes in the wood and metal. If you want to be super-clean, buy a metric sheet-metal hole punch for the metal plates.

The other way is to buy a flush-trim router bit. Use a larger drill bit, say 1/4" inch, and widen all of the holes in the plexi. Do the holes in the panel top first. Reattach the plexi, then use the flush-trim bit in each hole. It will bring all of the holes flush to the plates, guaranteeing that they match.

Long-winded, I know, but this does work. The way I did it turned out to be quite the hack job, and I'm going to have to re-do it as a result.

Also, since we're talking about building sticks, I have to plug my ball-tops. I gotta unload some of these. I keep making them, but they aren't selling. :\

:D

[TMO Gaming]

Don't. Just don't. If you try to build one, it'll suck, you'll want to build another, you'll be buying all these tools, that one sucked too so you make another and another getting a little better each time but never actually making you happy and you've spent over $1k before you know what happened.



I have to find a way to make all this text fit in my sig. ^ that is my life, in 3 sentences. :sad:

[Numbski]

You and me both man, only I got the glass-drilling setup too. I suspect neither of us is selling enough to recoup our individual investments.

[Kobayashi]

Here ya go.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/e7hajf

Could I get a repost of that blueprint?

[Kaytrim]

I have to find a way to make all this text fit in my sig. ^ that is my life, in 3 sentences. :sad:

You and me both man, only I got the glass-drilling setup too. I suspect neither of us is selling enough to recoup our individual investments.

That makes three of us. At least you two have sales under your belts. My wife is quietly seething at the money I am spending and still have nothing to show for it. Just a mater of time till she blows her top.:sweat:

TTFN
Kaytrim

[ashurax]

Here ya go.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/e7hajf

yeah could you reupload that?

[Mikhal]

Sent ya a PM, but posted here anyways in case someone else wanted it.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/s2fdsb

[josephpho]

thanks for the blue print its giving me a better idea on what i wanna do.....

[Fstrike]

I need some help on the wood to use for top panel for a sanwa stick. I was in Home Depot today and was looking at the pieces of wood and saw GIS Plywood and Hardboard as well, couldn't find any employees for some advice. My question is what thickness is best especially since I'm gonna be using lexan or whatever (does Home depot cut that too?) too. Are those two types of wood any good or is there something better? (couldn't find any mdf)

[Big Pockets]

A Home Depot without MDF?!

I wouldn't go less than 1/2" as a general rule of thumb. Not sure about the GIS Plywood...the Hardboard is probably too thin. I usually use hardboard for the back cover. Go back to the Home Depot and demand to know where they are hiding the MDF.

[josephpho]

and yeah just got parts sat morning ... so still in process of building my box... muahaha

muahahahah my box is going to be one ghetto thinger.....

but hey i hope i am right with ... its the parts+player haha

hm... was also wondering if ... i could just use 1 screw as a ground? like daisy chain or whatever and they all end up on one screw... and a SCREW is fine as a ground right? or am i missing something i needa know

[Starcade RIP]

A screw is not fine as a ground. While you can daisy chain the grounds, you connect the ground from a ground on the gamepad to the grounds on the button/stick micro switches. Check the pad hacking thread for more detail.

[Chaosdragon13]

um... a screw wont work for a ground. When the term 'ground' is used here its not quite the same as an electrical ground like on a plug or anything similar. The ground just means the other contact on the PCB. Each button on the PCB is made up of two contacts. On some controllers one of the two contacts is the same for every buttons. This contact is referd to as the ground.

So as long as you are using a controller that has a common contact, something like a PS1 controller, you can daisy chain the terminals on the arcade buttons, and then just run one wire from the common contact to the buttons.

[josephpho]

ahhh forgot the part that i would take the gamepads ground to the screw too...

which i think should be fine ahha

and how do i use this item?
http://www.electricsupplyonline.com/prod/gb-meters_and_testers/gdt-11_w018009.php
i have one but i have no clue how to use...its called a "multimeter". and is this the item to use to check if my solder points are good?

[Chaosdragon13]

If you are connecting the screw to the ground on the PCB then you should be fine. I am not sure how large of a screw you would need to creat enough resistance to cause a problem but you should be fine.

For testing solder points with a multimeter, you want to set it to test for resistance(the horseshoe looking thing incase you didnt know). If you get a very small, near zero reading, then that means that the two points are connected. If you get an infinite resistance then there is no connection between the two points you are testing and you may want to check your solder.

[josephpho]

infinite as in the numbers keep changing?

but thanks for the good info

[Kuprin]

Out of curiosity, all these guys who are saying "don't build your first stick"...how much did you know before starting? I'm decent with a soldering iron (and have my more hardware-oriented CE/EE friends to check my work) and have enough carpentry skill to build the box without thinking about it (though I'm still trying to decide the best way to go about the top without a router on hand - other than buying a router, as I don't have room for power tools 'round here). I'm thinking I'll go the bondo route, everyone loves copious amounts of putty. :p

[Chaosdragon13]

In my oppinion "dont build your first stick" is directed towards people who see the sticks on this site and just want to jump in and build their own with out any research on what it takes to do so, people who dont know a thing about using power tools and on top of that, dont have enough tools to get the project done.

I started building sticks a few months ago. I wanted a stick so I could get into 2D fighters, mainly GG, but I didnt want to buy one. Then I found this site.

My first stick was with happ parts and about a month after I made that I wanted a smaller sanwa stick, which I am very happy with. Before I started I didnt know much about soldering other than the basic idea that you heat up the solder with the iron and get it over the join, I had experience with power tools, limited wood work, and had the tools needed to get the project done. As for pad hacking, it wasnt that hard, I just had to research it a little. Really I took about a month of researching how to build a stick before I actually jumped in and did it.

I think that if you have the right tools and more importantly, know how to use them, then as long as you take the time too look around this site for research and ideas, then you will be fine with building your own stick.

infinite as in the numbers keep changing?

but thanks for the good info

If there are numbers changing then the point are connected because the meter is actually reading something for resistance. Infinite resistance on my multimeter is shown by just reading all zeros. It would never read this if the points were conencted because there is always some small resistance no matter how close the points are because of the wires of the test probes and the circuit in the multimeter. Although they are designed to have as little resistance as possible, it is not physically possible for them have no resistance.

[josephpho]

thanks chaos and yeah i did a TON of research .... like a good 2 1/2 months from like last year... getting the idea .....then just this month i reviewed everything just asking a few questions here and there. looking at paik's building journal HELPED TONS ahahha.... and his photo's he had of the guts of a stick....

WELL i'm happy with my soldering i did

and in a video i watched i found this very important. its all about how you tin the solder tip and how the actual solder never touches the gun after tinning. gotta heat up the 2 points you wanna solder and then the solder will just melt on. LOL something like that ahah

going to hook up everything to the board and hope it runs smooth a;lsdkjf;laksdjf

thank the tekken god.... it works
OMG
what a work out
taeyoung = strain on wrist.....or muscles....owww....but what they say is true it is so sensitive omg...
i am about to cry.....tears of joy
and my stick is really a beast ahha