Let's stop the Online VS Offline arguing, please.

[nothingxs]

I'm no fucking moderator, but it's getting fucking stupid to the point that I avoid threads in FGD because all of a sudden, there's this huge motherfucking war between the Kaillera people and the people who don't play online.

Sure, some of you will go "but online is always inferior!" That's true in terms of game quality, maybe, but in outright convenience it just can't be beat. A lot of people have to understand that the people who play online may simply just not have the time or resources to be going around playing others in majors. You also have to realize that just because they play online is not really a valid reason to discredit whatever experience or skill they've accumulated at the game.

An example I'm going to pull is from '98, where I consider myself to be pretty decent. I've played Emil online and I've lost to him. I'm one of the people who say "well, online isn't anything like offline," but it would be fucking stupid to discredit Emil's skill and knowledge just because he wasn't playing with me on an arcade cabinet or betting money.

The same goes for kids like T-Kimura and his MVC1 ability, and a lot of other players. I'm never going to say that online is ever preferable to me over just playing the games offline -- that's crazy talk. However, for what it is, it's pretty good, and with how technology is going, it can get a lot better. Don't hate so much. Most of the reason why these huge arguments start is because you can't accept that some people just play online. That's cool. Maybe you think their skills don't really translate to offline play. That's cool too, but at this point, I really don't think I give a fuck, and I really don't think anyone gives a fuck. Just drop it.

In summary, I love you all despite anything but think you're all a bunch of faggots for fighting over that shit. :lovin:

Love,
nothingxs

[Bob Poundmax]

*looks at the title of the thread*


THANK YOU!!!!!

EDIT: I would like to say that from my experience I play online because the respective scene for the games I play are dead(and I am willing to bet that they have never been alive). I dont have the means to travel half way around the country to find some competition. I'm in college and I have to pay tuition and the bills. I think its about fucking time that someone on SRK finally aknowledged the problems that some of us have.

[Gaijinblaze]

You're still dumb for defending Emil in any way though.

PS. I don't play online, but I don't hate it.

[nothingxs]

You're still dumb for defending Emil in any way though.

PS. I don't play online, but I don't hate it.

I blame the Flash for going back in time to when my mom was pregnant and putting speed into the stairs so they fell up her. :looney:

I used Emil mostly as example since he's the only person I can think of outside of T-Kimura in MVC1, and definitely one of the few that I have that kind of first-hand experience with. There's some other cats on Kaillera that play games like KOF, ST and other stuff, and they are definitely not bad -- maybe not top tier material, but they are definitely not garbage, and I think people would just say they are without thinking or checking it out themselves first just because it's convenient to say "They play online? Pffffffft."

[Shin-Mech-Brian]

I blame the Flash for going back in time to when my mom was pregnant and putting speed into the stairs so they fell up her. :looney:

HAHAHA... that's almost sig worthy.

And I agree with you, just play the fucking game and have fuin.

[Emil]

People just need to be more open minded about it. The online players aren't really saying offline play sucks...but a lot of offline players are saying online sucks, with some impression they have been given about online play in general. Kaillera is surprisingly stable compared to other forms of online gameplay (think, MMORPGs, RTS games, etc). It almost seems that the ones that make the assumptions about the online fighting games do it from experience of games like Diablo II which does have horrendous (and very random) lag.

At first I used to complain a lot about the lag...and while some lag still exists, the lag actually made me a better player. How? It forces you to have to improve your reaction speed to a point that far exceeds what is needed for offline gameplay. In addition, if you really want to win online without actually resorting to abusing lag tactics yourself, this means you will have to be even better at noticing patterns (in this case, noticing lag abuse patterns). Back in the day I used to complain a lot when people would do some low recovery move, then immediately roll through my character. I would blame lag, and it is true that lag (or rather, delay) reduces the chance that you will be able to punish that...but in reality the reason I couldn't punish it (besides the delay) was that I just wasn't focussing as hard on the game as I could have been. After enough playing like this, I was able to just know all possible actions the opponent could perform at any given situation (including all possible lag tactics), and I was ready for all of them. This was all improved because the lag initially prevented me from being able to beat it with the skill I had at the time, so I stepped it up.

If you're 100% critical about the lag and have actually played on kaillera (like Serpent has), then you should do what he does. Play people with very low ping, on Excellent/LAN and even better, find a private server to go to.

As said in the other thread, 15ms ping corresponds to 0.9 frames of delay. 30ms ping is 1.8 frames of delay. Generally games are considered playable at <= 30ms ping. If you live reasonably close, and host a private server, you will have 0 ping and your opponent might have about 10-30 ping. That's really not so bad. It also helps to choose a less laggy client...most people are stuck with mame32k 0.64, but others like Brandon, recommended FBA which even less delay, or so he says.

Edit: Furthermore there is the misconception that people that play online do not play in the arcades. I know quite a few people on kaillera that play against hard competition in the arcades, including some very good mexicans (kofman comes to mind). In fact, some of the best mexicans in the arcade, that have also attended the Big Bang tourney in Juarez, play online as well. There are also many chinese players online that also play in the arcade offline, and can probably beat a large majority of players that only play in the arcade and never online.

Bottom-line is, if you haven't tried kaillera, don't assume it is some unstable lag fest where you can't move or execute specials/supers. There is some delay depending who you are playing against and some lag, again depending on who you play. Just play people with low pings, Excellent/LAN connection and possibly in a private server and there shouldn't be much of a problem. At least try it before insulting it. The worst you can do is assume that they are scrubs because of this, especially when there are a variety of legitimate reasons why someone would have to play online...offline first hand experience is not the only way someone can learn how to play, if they are smart enough...just like you can self teach yourself to do computer programming using online resources without having to take actual courses, which is similar to people learning from watching match videos of the best players rather than having to play against them in person, in order to learn. If you're smart enough to analyze things well, and your execution/reaction is good, you can be good without having any offline tournament experience. The thing is...this is just rare to see, but definitely possible. The notions that having no experience in offline tournaments means you are not a good player is just garbage.

Edit: And FYI, I haven't been to offline tournaments but unlike what many people claim, I have played in some arcades before that arcade was shut down. Oh and guess what, the competition in that arcade (and another arcade I had went to) was generally worse than online play. My point isn't that online players are better, it's that being an offline player doesn't automaticallly mean you are better than an online player.


And nothingxs, we need to play more 98.

[DS]

Just play people with low pings, Excellent/LAN connection and possibly in a private server and there shouldn't be much of a problem.

Yeah, that's the ONLY exception to the rule. But, no one likes to play in a private server because most of the time, they're afraid of losing without their lag tactics. That's just how it goes. Me and Slide would go into a private server to play some A3. I ended up getting a lot better, but I had to make my own adjustments offline because the input lag does throw your execution off when you're playing on stick.

Other than that, most of us are referring to the public servers. We know how it works in the public servers. You got those lag abusers that suck, and they'll throw a shitfit if you win just one game. Then, most of them start saying, "Well, you suck...blahblahblahcockinmymouthblahblahblah..." When in reality, they couldn't hold their own in a tournament. A lot of us have grown up playing in the arcades because a lot of come from a city with stable competition all day and every day.

Oh and guess what, the competition in that arcade (and another arcade I had went to) was generally worse than online play. My point isn't that online players are better, it's that being an offline player doesn't automaticallly mean you are better than an online player.

That's because the comp sucked in your area. That's just how it is. Some areas are stronger than others when it comes to competition.

[Dios <-X->]

I cant believe people are still arguing about this subject, it should have been squashed like 5 years ago, the fact people that play games on kaillera and think they deserve respect when they wont play a good player offline for money is laughable.

[Rengoku]

It forces you to have to improve your reaction speed to a point that far exceeds what is needed for offline gameplay. I

please close this thread

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


ps+serious answer
that COULD only improve your GUESSING ability not reaction
doing shit with lag mean that you have to execute it before being sure that it land

[Emil]

Yeah, that's the ONLY exception to the rule. But, no one likes to play in a private server because most of the time, they're afraid of losing without their lag tactics. That's just how it goes. Me and Slide would go into a private server to play some A3. I ended up getting a lot better, but I had to make my own adjustments offline because the input lag does throw your execution off when you're playing on stick.

Yeah about this...there were very specific cases where Kyokuji would bring others into some private servers and they would actually complain about the lack of lag (wtf?). I guess it's best to only bring people into private supers that you know are decent players, this really only happens from either knowing them in person or playing them in a public server where you can get a rough impression of their potential and then inviting them to a private one after.

Other than that, most of us are referring to the public servers. We know how it works in the public servers. You got those lag abusers that suck, and they'll throw a shitfit if you win just one game. Then, most of them start saying, "Well, you suck...blahblahblahcockinmymouthblahblahblah..." When in reality, they couldn't hold their own in a tournament. A lot of us have grown up playing in the arcades because a lot of come from a city with stable competition all day and every day.

I've actually started cracking down on these types of people. Silencing/banning from the server if they keep doing it, because they only end up ruining the community.

That's because the comp sucked in your area. That's just how it is. Some areas are stronger than others when it comes to competition.

Yeah I know it sucked, that was my point basically...

ps+serious answer
that COULD only improve your GUESSING ability not reaction
doing shit with lag mean that you have to execute it before being sure that it land

I used to think this...not anymore. If you improve your reaction past a certain point, you can still punish it even if delayed. It's just harder. If your reaction is "okay" and you're playing online in a delayed game, you will have to guess most likely, depending on what they do. If your reaction is superb, then you can still beat it without guessing. Not saying mine is godly but it's come to a point where roll behind throws, short jumps and Andy air qcf+K into high/low get punished by me quite often, without me having to toss out lucky anti-airs/throws.

[arstal]

I still think the best results are offline tournaments.

I do think online kaillera is better comp then your mid-tier arcade. I've learned more online then offline. As for adjustments, I don't make a ton of adjustments online to offline. Biggest difference to me is the speed- things tend to move faster offline to me.

I do get a laugh at tactics I use offline that work in tournies being called lag abuse.

[nothingxs]

I cant believe people are still arguing about this subject, it should have been squashed like 5 years ago, the fact people that play games on kaillera and think they deserve respect when they wont play a good player offline for money is laughable.

This is exactly the kind of post not to make in this thread. :clap:

This isn't a place to discuss Online VS Offline, people. That's the entire fucking point, no one really cares, if people didn't give you respect before chances are they won't now. By the same token, people need to stop hating on the guys that play online. If you really want to see how it is for yourself in a private server, then set something up. Most people would be glad to. Otherwise, realize that like I said, not everyone has the time or resources to make the commitment to fly around and play.

I still think the best results are offline tournaments.

No one is arguing that.

[Eduardo24]

I cant believe people are still arguing about this subject, it should have been squashed like 5 years ago, the fact people that play games on kaillera and think they deserve respect when they wont play a good player offline for money is laughable.

We should play videogames for money = CONFIRMED.

[n8archer_XI]

no, he said we should play legitimate opponents offline before we start declaring ourselves Gods at the games we play online...

[Bob Poundmax]

no, he said we should play legitimate opponents offline before we start declaring ourselves Gods at the games we play online...

Not to be disrespectful to anyone, If you declare yourself as a "God" at anything then you already lost before the match has begun. Those who do that shit are going to get beasted accordingly on the account of their arrogence, wether its online or offline.

Don't get me wrong I'm not an expert but I know that much from observation and what little competition I've had so far.

[MagnetoManiac]

I cant believe people are still arguing about this subject, it should have been squashed like 5 years ago, the fact people that play games on kaillera and think they deserve respect when they wont play a good player offline for money is laughable.

no kaillera player will waste a flight ticket or gas money to travel to beat someone they know they can beat. if the offline players wants it soo bad, just come to w/e the kaillera player is. if not kaillera is available any place, any time.

[KrsJin]

no kaillera player will waste a flight ticket or gas money to travel to beat someone they know they can beat. if the offline players wants it soo bad, just come to w/e the kaillera player is. if not kaillera is available any place, any time.


Whackest, copout, ever.

If the "kaillera" player was so sure on the win, why not do a money match for more than the cost of traveling :D

[(RedBeard)]

LOL at online lag improving your reaction time. Why the hell would online play improve your reaction over regular offline play? It doesn't. You don't see top players training online to improve their reaction, now do you? Because all playing in laggy circumstances is going to teach you is to compensate for lag and guess before crap happens.

In GG for example, good luck blocking ANY TICK THROW, especially pot busters or command throws, on reaction with ANY lag. You MUST guess to avoid them before even seeing them come out. Pot Buster comes out in 3 frames and has a gigantic range. Sol's command throw comes out in 4 frames and he can do it immediately after several key things where your only CHOICE for online play is to guess before he does anything. But meh, no point arguing really.

[Riot.EXE]

this argument is about as stupid as "what fighting game is the best fighting game ever?"

however...good points were made all around.

I've played some Kaillera back when I was on DSL and Cable...some fights were decent, some weren't...just like in the arcades, but different in overall situation. What I'm saying is...there's good and bad shit about online AND offline, its just up to you to decide what you're willing to put up with, and what you're willing to do to better your situation.

[Digitalbooty]

no kaillera player will waste a flight ticket or gas money to travel to beat someone they know they can beat. if the offline players wants it soo bad, just come to w/e the kaillera player is. if not kaillera is available any place, any time.

LOL!!! $1000 is a waste of time?! LOLOLOLOlo

[Dandy J]

As said in the other thread, 15ms ping corresponds to 0.9 frames of delay. 30ms ping is 1.8 frames of delay.
Keep in mind these maths only apply to the LAN setting. When you use Excellent, the input delay goes up by 2x (or possibly more, I'm not sure), and on Good goes up by 3x.

Also I'm willing to bet everyone in this thread's Kaillera experience has started and stopped at 'played on Godweapon with Good'.

[Rage02fire]

Thank you very much NothingX for pointing out how much lately SRK has been transforming into Gamefaqs with some of the crap that's been in debate here.

[randomplayerx]

People just need to be more open minded about it. The online players aren't really saying offline play sucks...but a lot of offline players are saying online sucks, with some impression they have been given about online play in general. Kaillera is surprisingly stable compared to other forms of online gameplay (think, MMORPGs, RTS games, etc). It almost seems that the ones that make the assumptions about the online fighting games do it from experience of games like Diablo II which does have horrendous (and very random) lag.



Edit: And FYI, I haven't been to offline tournaments but unlike what many people claim, I have played in some arcades before that arcade was shut down. Oh and guess what, the competition in that arcade (and another arcade I had went to) was generally worse than online play. My point isn't that online players are better, it's that being an offline player doesn't automaticallly mean you are better than an online player.


And nothingxs, we need to play more 98.


You are an idiot, and everyone thinks so. No one is saying all online gaming sucks and everyone who plays it sucks. What they are saying is for fighting games online play is absolutely NOT EVER the place to play to prove anything. First of all it has some lag. The arcade or console do not. Therefor offline > online. Secondly it allows macros and offline does not. offline > online. Thirdly it has no social aspect which if you aren't a lifeless douchebag adds greatly to the game. offline > online. If you are going to play for money or real props then it is unacceptable to ever play anywhere other than offline. And if you don't realize it then you are an idiot.
EDIT: all the above was posted by chaos, not me!

[Rengoku]

I used to think this...not anymore. If you improve your reaction past a certain point, you can still punish it even if delayed. It's just harder. If your reaction is "okay" and you're playing online in a delayed game, you will have to guess most likely, depending on what they do. If your reaction is superb, then you can still beat it without guessing. Not saying mine is godly but it's come to a point where roll behind throws, short jumps and Andy air qcf+K into high/low get punished by me quite often, without me having to toss out lucky anti-airs/throws.


emil,

HELL NO

when i play i want to execute what i want when i want and when i see that i have to

online don't allow this and it sucks

[Bobbypigo]

NOTHING XS, Thank you for taking this debate out of the MvC1 thread. I sincerely appreciate it.

[FMJaguar]

Way too many people are caught in this internet fanboy mindset, something either has to suck or it has to rule, x has to be > y, my side is the best and yours isn't. Once that stops, most people realize there was no debate, and most people are arguing over points that were never said by anyone.

Offline will have the major conventions , prize money, sponsors, tv time, etc... Online will have the most people, the most variety, the bigger pool of players to pay the bills, and to draw from to get the next generation of offline players.

They both are serious, they both are skilled, and in the end, if you don't use both to their strengths, you'll be missing out.

[nothingxs]

Keep in mind these maths only apply to the LAN setting. When you use Excellent, the input delay goes up by 2x (or possibly more, I'm not sure), and on Good goes up by 3x.

Also I'm willing to bet everyone in this thread's Kaillera experience has started and stopped at 'played on Godweapon with Good'.

I try to play with my friends with a private server and connections set to the LAN setting for 60 keyframe goodness. It can desync sometimes though.

FMJaguar summed it up for me in the end. The gaming world's focus is shifting to online play. Sure, for fighting games it doesn't quite work yet (some people are trying, like the people developing Kwonho for instance), but we'll get to a point eventually where we can have playable games online. We may already be there if we spent some time tweaking things out to enjoy the best matches.

First of all it has some lag. The arcade or console do not. Therefor offline > online. Secondly it allows macros and offline does not. offline > online. Thirdly it has no social aspect which if you aren't a lifeless douchebag adds greatly to the game. offline > online.

The first one I can understand. The second comment is kind of random, because you can just avoid playing random people and macros aren't shit then, although I understand the frustration. The third comment I just don't get at all because the internet DOES have a social aspect. It's different, sure, but it's there.

In the end, my point was to have people STOP FUCKING ARGUING ABOUT THIS. The argument doesn't go anywhere! We already know where everyone stands and no converts are ever made to either side. Just fucking drop it. Discussion is great but there's a limit to how far you can take shit.

[Dasrik]

If you think there's a social aspect to the Internet, you have not been on it long enough.

[Emil]

LOL at online lag improving your reaction time. Why the hell would online play improve your reaction over regular offline play? It doesn't.

Well I clearly explained how...the reaction could be improved, provided you actually cared enough to overcome lag. When delay is overcoming you, there are three things you can do:

1) push yourself to improve your reaction to the point where even the delay doesn't affect you unless the moves you are reacting to are as fast as the input delay itself

2) give up and just keep guessing

3) give up and don't play

In GG for example, good luck blocking ANY TICK THROW, especially pot busters or command throws, on reaction with ANY lag. You MUST guess to avoid them before even seeing them come out. Pot Buster comes out in 3 frames and has a gigantic range. Sol's command throw comes out in 4 frames and he can do it immediately after several key things where your only CHOICE for online play is to guess before he does anything. But meh, no point arguing really.

GG's netplay has virtually zero delay...it's way way way better than kaillera. Pot buster setups are virtually impossible to stop offline anyway. Hence why almost every single player ends up getting hit so easily when they are waking up against Potemkin. It seems they are forced to guess anyway.

Keep in mind these maths only apply to the LAN setting. When you use Excellent, the input delay goes up by 2x (or possibly more, I'm not sure), and on Good goes up by 3x.

Right, I forgot to mention this.

You are an idiot, and everyone thinks so. No one is saying all online gaming sucks and everyone who plays it sucks. What they are saying is for fighting games online play is absolutely NOT EVER the place to play to prove anything. First of all it has some lag. The arcade or console do not. Therefor offline > online. Secondly it allows macros and offline does not. offline > online. Thirdly it has no social aspect which if you aren't a lifeless douchebag adds greatly to the game. offline > online. If you are going to play for money or real props then it is unacceptable to ever play anywhere other than offline. And if you don't realize it then you are an idiot.
EDIT: all the above was posted by chaos, not me!

Once again, no one is arguing that online > offline...Also, the macros thing is quite misunderstood. It allows you to map multiple buttons to one button, and only very specific buttons (for example, 3P, 3K), that is all. You can't map special moves or entire combos. This shouldn't even be called macros because when people who haven't played online hear that it allows macros, they immediately relate this to being able to map special moves and combos.

Edit: There is a social aspect to the internet...it's just not quite like it is in-person.

and nothingxs, I'd add the GG netplay to the list of online games that are getting somewhere. It can be laggy depending on where you live, but there's virtually no delay. In fact, I was amazed at how smooth the games were, I didn't think they could pull it off with something like GG.

[(RedBeard)]

Well I clearly explained how...the reaction could be improved, provided you actually cared enough to overcome lag. When delay is overcoming you, there are three things you can do:

1) push yourself to improve your reaction to the point where even the delay doesn't affect you unless the moves you are reacting to are as fast as the input delay itself

2) give up and just keep guessing

3) give up and don't play



GG's netplay has virtually zero delay...it's way way way better than kaillera. Pot buster setups are virtually impossible to stop offline anyway. Hence why almost every single player ends up getting hit so easily when they are waking up against Potemkin. It seems they are forced to guess anyway.

The problem is...you're making shit up, which you do quite a bit. In this case:

-Online play has absolutely 0 effect on improving your reaction to mixups over offline play. You cannot just "overcome" lag. It is a CONSTANT handicap because you have 4 less frames or whatever to react to everything. If you are getting hit by shit then yes, you need to work on your reaction. The problem is that playing online has nothing to do with anything. If you're having trouble blocking something, you work on improving your reaction OFFLINE regardless.

-Online play changes how the game is played due to lag.

-Yeah, with lag you can counter shit like jumpins and whatnot. You can react to CERTAIN stuff because you have a decent window to do so...however...

-GG has a standard 2-4F window of lag online, not zero. This is without taking connection lag into account. Good luck blocking a Millia Disc crossup online and just "reacting" to it with your super online reaction powers. Or somehow stopping tick throws and deciding a tick throw is coming WHILE you're in a block string. The thing is hard enough to block without lag, but having 4 less frames to spot that crossup/throw makes it almost impossible. This is where shit online becomes a problem because it is no longer about reaction, you are guessing before anything happens because in many cases you CANT react to it.

-Umm, no. Without lag Pot Buster's are avoidable. Yes, people get Pot Bustered...but your window for spotting setups and whatnot is much greater offline and Pot gains a lot more mean setups with 4F of lag. Same with all online tick/command throws. It is hard to dodge, yes. But it is basically impossible online short of PREEMPTIVELY PURE GUESSING before anything even happens.

-Don't forget things like IBing strings which online lag messes with, and if AC were online, SBing would be impossible.

[Rengoku]

oh, fun i got my first kaillera play from 5 years or so

whahuahua completely crap

i found hard even to jump or guard low when i would

[Emil]

-Online play has absolutely 0 effect on improving your reaction to mixups over offline play. You cannot just "overcome" lag. It is a CONSTANT handicap because you have 4 less frames or whatever to react to everything. If you are getting hit by shit then yes, you need to work on your reaction. The problem is that playing online has nothing to do with anything. If you're having trouble blocking something, you work on improving your reaction OFFLINE regardless.

Actually you can overcome it, as long as the attacks you are trying to overcome are not faster than the frame delay itself. It's just really hard, but possible. Obviously the method of improving your reaction is no different offline than online. My point was that, if you want to overcome the delay online, you will have to work even harder than you would have to work offline.

-Online play changes how the game is played due to lag.

Obviously, no one is saying it isn't.

-GG has a standard 2-4F window of lag online, not zero. This is without taking connection lag into account. Good luck blocking a Millia Disc crossup online and just "reacting" to it with your super online reaction powers. Or somehow stopping tick throws and deciding a tick throw is coming WHILE you're in a block string. The thing is hard enough to block without lag, but having 4 less frames to spot that crossup/throw makes it almost impossible. This is where shit online becomes a problem because it is no longer about reaction, you are guessing before anything happens because in many cases you CANT react to it.

Again, you're telling me things I already know. Your examples are of situations that are almost impossible to react to in the reality. The things most people online seem to complain about is things that actually have reasonable startup. I'm not sure about frames but I'm going to guess that a hop attack in kof takes about 30+ frames to execute, unless you do it very early from a jump, but this will just get you comboed when you land. Also, a roll takes almost a second to execute, that's almost 60 frames.

Your example of seeing a tick throw during a block string, is not THAT affected by delay in comparison to Pot Buster setups. Besides, even when you think a tick throw is going to occur, you're still making an educated guess as to whether the opponent is going to tick throw. He could just make it look like he's going to, then just do another normal. I don't really have a problem reacting to situations that would lead to tick throws, but it is impossible lto react to the throw itself...you're just reacting to his setup of the tick throw.

-Umm, no. Without lag Pot Buster's are avoidable. Yes, people get Pot Bustered...but your window for spotting setups and whatnot is much greater offline and Pot gains a lot more mean setups with 4F of lag. Same with all online tick/command throws. It is hard to dodge, yes. But it is basically impossible online short of PREEMPTIVELY PURE GUESSING before anything even happens.

So, your reaction ability is 3 frames? It's just too hard to avoid, most players (even the best in the world) just end up having to guess (well, make educated guesses) anyway because they get hit so damn often. Not even saying that they are getting hit by pot busters, but rather that they keep anticipating pot busters resulting in them prematurely jumping out and getting hit by Potemkin stand K, H, f+H, etc on wakeup.

-Don't forget things like IBing strings which online lag messes with, and if AC were online, SBing would be impossible.

Well again, you're telling me things that are obvious and no one is contesting...IBing strings is affected but not impossible. That said, I'm no good at IBing strings, I need to work on it.

oh, fun i got my first kaillera play from 5 years or so

whahuahua completely crap

i found hard even to jump or guard low when i would

Dude, you live in Italy. The way you describe the lag is completely not like the lag you get from NA servers with players with low pings, fast connections, and possibly on LAN setting. If you found it hard to even jump or guard low when you wanted, then how the hell am I air throwing people out of hops, with Clark, on reaction?

Edit: When I was in Bulgaria, I decided to play in a Bulgarian server, and it was horrendous. It was absolutely nothing like playing in a NA american server when I was at home. So...this probably means either the connections in Bulgaria were crap, or the server itself was crap. This is probably the same in Italy.

This isn't even the point of the debate really...point was, people should try it out, on good settings (low pingers, good servers mainly private, good connections, LAN setting) before assuming that it impossible to play. Obviously I've had games that were impossible to play - these are usually players from mexico/south america. just avoid them.

It's ok to not like online play...but pointless to bad mouth kaillera without experience, and then make assumptions about the player base and to give it no meaning.

oh well, pointless to argue really, as nothingxs said. Just avoid the things I mentioned above.

[Dark Geese]

I got two things to say in this thread..

This Emil debate wouldn't exist if Emil didnt come off as a God-My-shit-don't stink and a know it all...

Thats the bottom line.. If he didnt come off this way we wouldnt come back so harshly on him.

No one would ever question anything about this at all if Emil didnt shit on people who play in tournaments WHEN HE HIMSELF DOES NOT and then make statements like "I would 99% OCV you" WTF is that shit? Pompous as hell and you have no real tournament experience!! Is this guy a joke? Is he to be taken seriously? That is the question we all ask...while laughing at him at the same time..:rofl:

And he has no reason to sound so arrogant as he is because he really has NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.

Hence I have the guy on ignore..he isnt worth my time and I see his ignorance and arrogance spread beyond SNK to any and everything he opens his mouth to.

I suggest everyone putting him on ignore so that we can actually have a good discussion about this and every other game...

if not Emil will shit on you too..and dont say you aint trying to Emil..BULLSHIT..I've been following you for awhile..you never change..think you are unbeatable..think you are Gods greatest gift to mankind...

And truth is...

**You are not...**

You must earn the right to come off how you sound my friend..

I'm out... Matter of fact Emil from people that have played you online AND BEATEN YOU I hear you are average at best...

And though Online may be the future for tournaments for fighting games now it IS NOT..hence I dont wanna hear anyone say they cant find competition for a game if they are sitting on their lazy asses not looking for it. You gotta go travel to get that competition..and as Arturo said Emil you claim you are waiting for people to get better in 2k2 but you wont play with the people IN YOUR AREA? Once again are you meant to be taken seriously?????

-Dark Geese

[(RedBeard)]

Too many things are impossible to practice or execute in Guilty Gear in online play. I'm not going to respond to everything you said because half of it you accidentally mixed up anyways. For one, Pot Buster comes out in three frames, yes. But tick throws do not work until 6F out of blockstun or 7F out of hit stun.(If memory serves, give or take a frame I don't remember the EXACT number) I wasn't implying I had 3F reaction time. According to you though, you do. Because with 4F cut off of every mixup in Guilty Gear you get anywhere between 0F->5F mixups. You'd need beyond godlike reaction to block well online against actual good mixups.

There is a big difference between having time to spot a 5P of Potemkin's retracting into a command throw and having no time to spot it at all. 8F->4F is a big difference. Most of the major mixups in Guilty Gear execute in about 5-10F. Shortening all of those by 4F makes most of them incredibly difficult to impossible to prevent. If you're not aware of how badly it affects the game then I can't convince you. It will not help you learn anything in GG if you have less time to block everything or if you're incapable of doing specific manuevers like IB->Backdash or IB->Overdrive or just wakeup backdashes or whatever. Blocking is also not everything, in fact in Guilty Gear there are so many defensive options you miss out on in online play.

Too many of Guilty Gear's mixups happen in 12F or under. Gimping yourself by another 2-6F depending on lag is not going to improve your reactionary skills. I think you would do yourself better by practicing offline. You're simply going to get by more shit than you should by playing it online.

Perhaps for other games it's different but most stuff in Guilty Gear isn't lazy 30F jumpins that you have a fairly wide margin to react to.

[megafighter]

Actually you can overcome it, as long as the attacks you are trying to overcome are not faster than the frame delay itself. It's just really hard, but possible.

You forgot the human reaction speed. Let's say that is humanly possible to react in N frames. So even if the move is not so fast, but the human reaction without the delay is not enough to block it (and with delay it would) one frame can make a difference.

And you can improve your reflexes offline too, obviously. Mags trijump is hard to block
in any way. In the same way you can have your reflexes improved a little bit online, people do it offline, but both you and them must keep yourselves in the realm of the humanly possible. The problem is that sometimes the humanly possible offline is not the same online.



I believe you can become very good online, but good is subjective. I don't believe you can be the best, however, unless you manage to prove it

[Dark Geese]

And dont ask him to prove it..


Because I have offered him cash at least FOUR TIMES ROUND TRIP to come prove it..and he has declined..

He is too lazy to come out of his hole..hence I'm through with him..I tried to be nice..didnt work..tried to help...didnt work..yet he still wants to talk shit and put everything on Kaillera and base everything off that I don't understand.

Once again understand this guys..none of this would exist if Emil didnt come off as a arrogant know it all....

That "Knows what the top players are thinking"..hahahha...and will neg rep you if you disagree with him.

C'mon Emil..jokes on you man...you're the reason for all of this. Change your tone and thnigs will get better..you've made your bed now you gotta lie in it hence no one likes you or takes you serious...except maybe .05% of people.

[caliagent#3]

GG lags online, not as bad as kaillera but it does lag. It tends to drop inputs at times also.

The ONLY time kaillera is good is when playing on private servers. Then and only then is it really playable.

[Juddfro]

And dont ask him to prove it..


Because I have offered him cash at least FOUR TIMES ROUND TRIP to come prove it..and he has declined..

He is too lazy to come out of his hole..hence I'm through with him..I tried to be nice..didnt work..tried to help...didnt work..yet he still wants to talk shit and put everything on Kaillera and base everything off that I don't understand.

Once again understand this guys..none of this would exist if Emil didnt come off as a arrogant know it all....

That "Knows what the top players are thinking"..hahahha...and will neg rep you if you disagree with him.

C'mon Emil..jokes on you man...you're the reason for all of this. Change your tone and thnigs will get better..you've made your bed now you gotta lie in it hence no one likes you or takes you serious...except maybe .05% of people.


DG, calm the fuck down! This topic is about online play vs. offline play, and how we are supposed stop arguing about it. This isn't about Emil.
Look, I don't want to come off sounding like an ass, but you need to get over this Emil shit, and you need to get over it quick. I understand he pissed you off but you can't bust in a thread and rant about Emil just because someone mentions him or Emil himself posts something. I've read your posts about how you've tried to act professionally but he pushed you over the edge. Well I got some bad news about that: If your pushing this SNK stuff, you have to act professionally 100% of the time. Rant about Emil to your friends out of the public eye if you have to, but acting like this in front of everyone won't make you look good. Unless Emil comes after you in a huge way, just let it go.

Now that I said all that, time to go on topic:
I believe offline is better than online, but I don't think people should rag on others for playing online. Shit, if I didn't have my single friend to play fighters with, I'd probably play online. It was said in the beginning, this fight is pointless. Just play what you want.

[Bobbypigo]

DG, dont calm down, your completely right. This online vs offline shit is like arguing oranges and apples and Emils attitude helpled to turn the threads he has visited into a cesspool.

[Emil]

Too many of Guilty Gear's mixups happen in 12F or under. Gimping yourself by another 2-6F depending on lag is not going to improve your reactionary skills. I think you would do yourself better by practicing offline. You're simply going to get by more shit than you should by playing it online.

Well I know this...obviously dumb things will still hit you at times, and I still get hit by dumb things in kof that I shouldn't. But...I just get hit by them less because I improved my game and reaction.

Nowhere did I say my reaction speed is three frames...or else I'd be getting out of pot busters easy, which I obviously don't. Against potemkin on wakeup when he's standing right over me, I don't really know what to do except make an educated guess. When I have some tension I will probably go for a wakeup dp and RC it if it's blocked but that's about my only reliable option, and it isn't even that reliable since it can get stuffed.

[Emil]

Edit: NO point in responding if he has me on block...except this:

I'm out... Matter of fact Emil from people that have played you online AND BEATEN YOU I hear you are average at best...

There are no such people here, so you're probably pulling things out of your ass...if you mean "beaten me" to mean that they won some games, then ok, they may have (Slide comes to mind, I'll give him that). Also, there are many many people that lie about beating me, or they will agree with this just because they don't like me in general and think it's a big deal to me...kind of like how some guys don't like Alex Valle and then say he isn't that good when they beat him on Xbox live. The only way you will know for sure is to just play me. in any case, you are not arguing with anything useful at all, you are trying to win a debate by bringing in totally irrelevant things to the discussion. Also, I can see the trick you are trying to pull here. It seems you want to throw out some random statements like "some people said they beat you and you aren't that great" so that, if I start explaining how that isn't true, that people don't beat me, then I'm going to look like the arrogant one. Your tricks fail.

I made DG blow up and show his true nature. He's handling this issue in an extremely unprofessional and rather childish manner. Bobbypingo, you failed to see that DG is the one that tries to argue by overexaggerating, purposely ignoring things that are stated, and putting words into people's mouths, plus bringing up things that don't have any relation to the discussion. Just because DG is a dedicated person when it comes to the SNK scene, doesn't mean he has the right to do these type of things. And frankly, if DG is going to act like this, his reputation as an offline SNK leader is going to crumble to dust, if it hasn't already.

GG lags online, not as bad as kaillera but it does lag. It tends to drop inputs at times also.

Actually I noticed this input dropping too, but I wasn't sure it was because of lag or my own execution. The game definitely doesn't seem laggy against some people (by lag I mean, game slowdown) and I don't really feel delayed (It's very hard to notice 2-4 frames of input delay) but it would still eat my inputs sometimes.

[Dark Geese]

Oh believe me Juddfro I'm calm..trust me this is very calm and a professional way of stating the facts of why things are happening the way they are in this thread..and Emil is a big part of it..this thread wouldnt exist if it wasnt for Emil case in point...


Im no longer mad at Emil..I'm through with him..and offering my POV from what I see going on in every thread Emil touches..I been reading other threads and it seems like THE SAME SHIT everywhere he goes..

C'mon Emil..you are the root of the problem man...so why not change your ways?

I said that he needs to change his attitude..I offered him some good advice..now lets see if he takes it!!!

[Overworld]

Really, I have read and disliked Emil's often holier-than-thou diatribes on SNK games, and it did garner an amount of dislike for the guy, but Dark Geese, literally following the kid around to threads and derailing topics (including his own) to go after the kid is much worse in my opinion. Dark Geese if you want to talk about Emil, do it to your friends, do it offline, or hell, make a topic about how much you hate Emil. At least there it would be relevant to discussion.


Anyway back to the topic at hand, I really think more people should just ease up on the netplay. It's okay to like both, they're different animals sure, but if you're having fun, than I don't see why people would shit on it. I personally have never tried kaillera on LAN/Excellent on a private server, I think I'll give it a go.

No one is making the argument that online games are superior to offline games, people are just trying to say that they are fun too, and not so utterly and completely different than their offline counterparts that you still can't pick up a thing or two. (I can say that in games I was learning, I have been able to play on kaillera, play someone decent and learn a few combos I may have not known about previously, so it's not a total waste for your offline game.)

[nothingxs]

If you think there's a social aspect to the Internet, you have not been on it long enough.

On the contrary.

Also, hey, arguing about Emil being the ultimate source of internet evil is not what this thread is about. Please keep that shit out of here. Make a thread that says Emil sucks in GD if you want to or some shit. This thread isn't even about arguing Offline VS Online. It's to get the point across that we've been over it enough already, so can we please fucking stop?

[DS]

You know, another thing that really pisses me off about Kaillera is when I ask the low pingers to go to Excellent/LAN and they refuse because they like the good setting. Yeah, gee, wonder why? When you call them out on what they're gonna do before they do it, they exit immediately.

But yeah, again, private servers are the way to go if you're gonna play. It saves you the aged whine these guys give you when you're serving them a side-order of rape.

[Dark Geese]

I just saw the Online vs. Offline arguing and Emil came to mind...as I cant see any other major reason why a thread would be made as 9 times out of 10 its in regard to him...

Why argue about such a thing? And then I read the debates and people calling him a fool and I was like "Oh boy here we go with this AGAIN!!" :rolleyes:

Everywhere I go the same thing it seems. :sweat:

But anyways yeah I'm through with it in regards to him in general.

[Emil]

You know, another thing that really pisses me off about Kaillera is when I ask the low pingers to go to Excellent/LAN and they refuse because they like the good setting. Yeah, gee, wonder why? When you call them out on what they're gonna do before they do it, they exit immediately.

I mentioned this with Kyokuji bringing in some people. Thing is, there are really two types of lag abusers. The ones that know they are lag abusing and try to take advantage of the lag. And there are others that don't know they are using lag tactics...in the latter case, they will usually go into an LAN private server game, realize their tactics are getting then VCed on reaction, then decide to leave and go play something that works for them.

[nothingxs]

I just saw the Online vs. Offline arguing and Emil came to mind...as I cant see any other major reason why a thread would be made as 9 times out of 10 its in regard to him...

Why argue about such a thing? And then I read the debates and people calling him a fool and I was like "Oh boy here we go with this AGAIN!!" :rolleyes:

Everywhere I go the same thing it seems. :sweat:

But anyways yeah I'm through with it in regards to him in general.

That's not the case in point. Consider this a huge "STOP" to all parties involved. We all get it. It's been beaten to death. For the sake of the casual SRK reader, this shit needs to fucking stop. I don't want to wander into a thread and go through 50 pages of all you assholes bitching at each other! We get it! We fucking get it already! ARGH! :annoy::annoy::annoy::annoy:

[T-Kimura]

Way too many people are caught in this internet fanboy mindset, something either has to suck or it has to rule, x has to be > y, my side is the best and yours isn't. Once that stops, most people realize there was no debate, and most people are arguing over points that were never said by anyone.

Offline will have the major conventions , prize money, sponsors, tv time, etc... Online will have the most people, the most variety, the bigger pool of players to pay the bills, and to draw from to get the next generation of offline players.

They both are serious, they both are skilled, and in the end, if you don't use both to their strengths, you'll be missing out.

this post shoulda ended the thread. best post made.

[nothingxs]

this post shoulda ended the thread. best post made.

The major problem is everyone feels they have something to say, but we've already heard all of it and the entire point is that we don't want to hear any more of it.

[Xero Kaiser]

You gotta go travel to get that competition

Fuck that

[ramza]

Fuck that

that's the scene. if everyone said "fuck that" the scene wouldn't exist anymore.

[Dark Geese]

Amen Ramza amen!!!

[The Illuminati]

Goddamn, I never seen so much hostility for an issue that's so fuckin' trivial. If you like offline than just play offline, if you like online play online. There problem fuckin' solved, The End. Who fuckin' cares how someone plays, just "do you" and play.

Stop de-railing threads or starting threads for such a stupid issue. Look what happened to the MVC 1 thread ebcause of this shit.

[Dasrik]

On the contrary.
Well having been on the Internet over 10 years, I do understand that any facet of society on the Internet is an illusion that breaks down in real life. Therefore, the "social aspect" is a lie. I guess it just takes people that long to figure it out.

[Emil]

Well having been on the Internet over 10 years, I do understand that any facet of society on the Internet is an illusion that breaks down in real life. Therefore, the "social aspect" is a lie. I guess it just takes people that long to figure it out.

Good luck proving premise 1...and you only have one premise in your argument, and you say it like it's a priori.

[Bobbypigo]

Goddamn, I never seen so much hostility for an issue that's so fuckin' trivial. If you like offline than just play offline, if you like online play online. There problem fuckin' solved, The End. Who fuckin' cares how someone plays, just "do you" and play.

Stop de-railing threads or starting threads for such a stupid issue. Look what happened to the MVC 1 thread ebcause of this shit.

Seriousley. . .check the thread out, its as big a mess as this is.

[Emil]

Seriousley. . .check the thread out, its as big a mess as this is.

The topic became a mess because T-K challenged Sabin online, and those guys cried immediately about online lag and all that crap...then Sabin and the others said T-K was a joke because he played online. Who are the unreasonable people? It's pretty obvious. Those guys should at least try it and see what's up.

[Sabin]

Uhh, why are you guys acting like I've never tried kaillera? nowhere did i say i never tried it. i used to play on snausage fingerz back in the day, and there was a kaillera saerver at columbia university also, in NY that I used to play at..which is very close to me. wha happaned? i couldnd do shit, timing was compleely off, and pl kept alking shit, so i never playd it agin cause i have a strong offline scene

ive also tried zsnes netplay before..fun to fuck around with, and ive played some serious players online who were able to compensate for lag (like Vintage).

the issue came up because tkimura challenged me online, i told him to go to T8 (which is in his ciy) to play me offline in front of a audience, (yet claims to be gdlk at mvc1) he wasnt willing to play me anywhere other han online and then claims "i dont care enough about the game to play it offline." tahs how it started.

[final_cut]

Well, at least we can restrict the arguement to this thread. =/

[Dander]

the reason people online refuse to go off sometimes, is because 3s doesn't have tom hanks.

[arstal]

I seriously don't think it's a massive difference online/offline. I've played online and offline a good bit now- the biweekly tournies here do help, and I'm about the same level in both. I'll say this. I've learned a lot more online, from facing a wider variety of styles, then I've learned offline. If you're good offline or online, you'll be good on the other one after some adjustment.

That's the biggest disadvantage of offline- unless you travel on a national-level basis, you'll be limited in the variety of competition to the locals. DG, you travel nationally- only about a dozen players really have the ability and time to travel nationally. Me, I'll go offline and play people within a 100 mile radius. I'll even hit your SNK-style Evo if you put it in NYC (barring something more urgent)

Also, there are people living in the middle of nowhere who can't really travel for comp- what about those dudes in North Dakota? We should just hope online gets nearly lag-free someday (doubt it will ever be totally lagfree due to the speed of data flow). The better it gets, the closer it will be to offline- and the better the scene.

[Khiempossible]

except tkimura lives in tdot and emil lives in sauga and don't have an excuse, since tdot is the biggest hub for FGs in Canada. And it's not about online/offline, cause other respected online players (who play XvSF lets say) like mystic-god, krasshole, joker, shiro etc, will all travel for their game.

It's more that there's a couple players who play exclusively online and think they're hot shit won't put their money where their mouth is.

[Gaijinblaze]

I didn't even know about that MvC thread until now. Damn, a travesty if there ever was one. Posts like those are the reason why I have distaste toward online players, not the drawbacks of online play itself. I think most offline players feel the same way. Online play is fine with me, who can resist comp in the comfort of your home? But when retards take the small bit of legitimacy it had right out of it with their claims, that's when things ignite. Way to go guys. I hope you know why people look down on online, don't be confused next time.

[Emil]

Uhh, why are you guys acting like I've never tried kaillera? nowhere did i say i never tried it. i used to play on snausage fingerz back in the day, and there was a kaillera saerver at columbia university also, in NY that I used to play at..which is very close to me. wha happaned? i couldnd do shit, timing was compleely off, and pl kept alking shit, so i never playd it agin cause i have a strong offline scene

Snausage fingerzz, that's way way way back. Kaillera has changed drastically. Where do you live, NYC?

Edit: Ok, you do...Godweapon is now located in NYC. In any case, as stated...when you do private servers + LAN connection and low pings, these lag problems you speak of pretty much go away. I heard even kofiend will play in private servers if someone asks him to.

[Rengoku]

Dude, you live in Italy. The way you describe the lag is completely not like the lag you get from NA servers with players with low pings, fast connections, and possibly on LAN setting. If you found it hard to even jump or guard low when you wanted, then how the hell am I air throwing people out of hops, with Clark, on reaction?.

oh man, those matches you posted some time ago are somewhat proof of how unplayable is kaillera at decent levels

[Dark Geese]

And it's not about online/offline, cause other respected online players (who play XvSF lets say) like mystic-god, krasshole, joker, shiro etc, will all travel for their game.

It's more that there's a couple players who play exclusively online and think they're hot shit won't put their money where their mouth is.

The fucking truth...Positive repped! :rock: I can't say anything more in addition to this!

Once again its about who is running their mouth but doesnt wanna put up when its time to put up!!

No one is badmouthing anyone for not having the resources to travel etc...but if you cant travel/dont want to/WONT ACCEPT CASH FROM SOMEONE TO SPONSOR YOU TO TRAVEL dont start shit and act like hot shit using that as your excuse....

We dont wanna hear it!!!!!

[nothingxs]

The fucking truth...Positive repped! :rock: I can't say anything more in addition to this!

Once again its about who is running their mouth but doesnt wanna put up when its time to put up!!

No one is badmouthing anyone for not having the resources to travel etc...but if you cant travel/dont want to/WONT ACCEPT CASH FROM SOMEONE TO SPONSOR YOU TO TRAVEL dont start shit and act like hot shit using that as your excuse....

We dont wanna hear it!!!!!

Time is a resource, and probably not always the easiest one to come by. I think that's the one Emil lacks the most, probably. :wasted:

[Emil]

oh man, those matches you posted some time ago are somewhat proof of how unplayable is kaillera at decent levels

That match I posted? It actually wasn't proof. When you play a mame recording with mame, it plays it with zero lag (thus, you cannot actually see the lag of the match when you play the recording). The reason the match looked laggy was because the video quality was bad. I basically recorded the mame recording, using Camtasia, but I don't know what video quality settings I should choose to make it look good. So yeah, the match in the video actually was the match with zero lag, the video looked laggy because of the quality.

Edit: I got time now, I'm done university. What I lack is money, and care...

[Xero Kaiser]

that's the scene. if everyone said "fuck that" the scene wouldn't exist anymore.

I've lived near exactly one arcade in my entire life that had more than 3 people who seriously played. It gets to the point where going on some epic journey to find someone to play VF with you just stops being worth it

[DS]

I've lived near exactly one arcade that had more than 3 people who seriously played. It gets to the point where going on some epic journey to find someone to play VF with you just stops being worth it


See, that's your problem. You play VF. And as much as I like VF, even I know better than to play that in my area. We've got like, 10 players tops and they're scattered about in NYC.

[Xero Kaiser]

See, that's your problem. You play VF. And as much as I like VF, even I know better than to play that in my area. We've got like, 10 players tops and they're scattered about in NYC.

I just used VF as an example.

[Rengoku]

That match I posted? It actually wasn't proof. When you play a mame recording with mame, it plays it with zero lag (thus, you cannot actually see the lag of the match when you play the recording). The reason the match looked laggy was because the video quality was bad. I basically recorded the mame recording, using Camtasia, but I don't know what video quality settings I should choose to make it look good. So yeah, the match in the video actually was the match with zero lag, the video looked laggy because of the quality.

Edit: I got time now, I'm done university. What I lack is money, and care...

i'm not referring to the video itself, but to the whole gameplay

[caliagent#3]

Uhh, why are you guys acting like I've never tried kaillera? nowhere did i say i never tried it. i used to play on snausage fingerz back in the day, and there was a kaillera saerver at columbia university also, in NY that I used to play at..which is very close to me. wha happaned? i couldnd do shit, timing was compleely off, and pl kept alking shit, so i never playd it agin cause i have a strong offline scene

ive also tried zsnes netplay before..fun to fuck around with, and ive played some serious players online who were able to compensate for lag (like Vintage).

the issue came up because tkimura challenged me online, i told him to go to T8 (which is in his ciy) to play me offline in front of a audience, (yet claims to be gdlk at mvc1) he wasnt willing to play me anywhere other han online and then claims "i dont care enough about the game to play it offline." tahs how it started.

I think it was like 2 or 3 yrs ago he challenged someone else on kaillera and refused to play offline because he can only use his kb.

[...~*jase*~...]

Nothing is wrong with online,but it's nothing to take seriously.It's full of scrubs.I can stop kalleria for 6 months,come back,and perfect the same people in xvsf.Reason why I play kalleria on and off where I live is no scene I dont play fps,so kalleria is my last option.Out of 80 people in the server,hopefully I could find 2 people thats dencent.Kalleria is a nothing to get respect from,only offline play.

I do understand that any facet of society on the Internet is an illusion that breaks down in real life. Therefore, the "social aspect" is a lie. I guess it just takes people that long to figure it out.

Correct. I talk shit on kalleria,I try to take it farther as I can,and dum asses on there take that shit seriously.Therefore, the "online social community" is a lie.

[arstal]

Nothing is wrong with online,but it's nothing to take seriously.It's full of scrubs.I can stop kalleria for 6 months,come back,and perfect the same people in xvsf.Reason why I play kalleria on and off where I live is no scene I dont play fps,so kalleria is my last option.Out of 80 people in the server,hopefully I could find 2 people thats dencent.Kalleria is a nothing to get respect from,only offline play.



Well, you're going to perfect the same people, because you're better then them. Not everyone can improve. I remember offline arcades having plenty of scrubs I could beast constantly, a few dudes who'd give me a match but lose most of the time, a handful who could fight me evenly, and two dudes who could beast me.

The biggest boost Kaillera gives in offline comp is there will be a lot fewer things you won't have seen before- since you'll see other playstyles. I mean, what if you're playing say, an A2 tourney, and you're used to playing Ryus/Ken/Chuns/Roses, and someone busts out a Sodom that you've never seen before? If you live out in LA or Sunnyvale or NYC, you can get a decent enough variety of comp, but not everyone has that.

[Emil]

Correct. I talk shit on kalleria,I try to take it farther as I can,and dum asses on there take that shit seriously.Therefore, the "online social community" is a lie.

Just because there are shit talkers online that don't act like that in the reality, doesn't mean the entire online social community is a lie. There are many people that would act the same online as they would offline.

[...~*jase*~...]

Just because there are shit talkers online that don't act like that in the reality, doesn't mean the entire online social community is a lie. There are many people that would act the same online as they would offline.

Dont matter,what people are trying to say to online junkies is that,the social online thing will never top offline social community,like playing next to that person at a freinds house,arcade,or whatever.I dont care how advance online play will get,it will never top the old fashion arcade when all the players meet up on a weekend.Theres not one freind I met outside arcade,Or tournament I hang out with.

Ok heres a good example.Scrubs that comes to the arcade,they lose alot,but they still laugh and joke,conversate with the best players.Its all about having fun and hanging with people that love doing something you doing.The best players would take the time to show you some tricks or hell talk about random shit 2 normal guys would talk about the girls around the mall/cars/whatever

As for online.If you are a scrub.SImple.You will get disconnect/kicked out the game for sucking or be ignore.Plus,who wants to talk about random stuff other then the game you playing to a guy that dont even know how to do a aircombo?Plus I came online to play comp,not to teach scrubs how to play,thats what combovideos/srk stradegy sextion is for.

If their to lazy to dedicate themseleves by simply using the search engine on tips or tactics on how to get better,and what makes you think they are deciated on becoming a better player?You right you wasting your time.Scrubs need to learn,Theres no shortcuts on becoming a good player,it's takes practice and patience,not some top player saying a"this is how"

[Dark Geese]

About not everyone being able to improve..I disagree with that..

As a teacher I believe everyone CAN improve..but it boils down to this-

#1- Do you truly want to improve or are you full of shit? Are you wasting my time feeding me BS when you are just a casual player?

#2- Once again are you a casual or a hardcore player?

I have really NO competition near me in my SNK games truthfully but I found a way and keep finding ways to do my thing and get better and stay ontop of my game even when I come home and have NO ONE to play..

Yes let me reiterate that..though travelling plays a major part etc..

I come home and can get quite better on my own..

Why? I'm a hardcore gamer..and I have the desire to get better..

Some people dont know how to improve thats the problem..or they are too fucking lazy,

Or they are full of shit, or they lack the desire to put in hard work..

This I discover as I train people in my work as a Spanish teacher and train them other games...

The ones that stay scrubs are because of the negatives I listed...and the main negative-

LACK OF DESIRE/LAZINESS.

And Xero Kaiser- Doesnt matter if you play VF or not..my thing as you see is this...stop making excuses. If you want the competition bad enough YOU WILL FIND IT. That is what I tell all my students..so if they give me that "Aww fuck that I gotta travel" BS I say "Well I guess you dont want it bad enough..you aint got the fire..the desire...so Im gonna stop wasting my time with you."

Im pretty blunt to my students..only because I want the best out of them..and I have been burnt breaking my back for casual players that aint worth the time...

So you gotta ask yourself..how bad do you want that VF comp? If you wanted it bad enough you'd come to EVO North..where Japanese player Otome wil BE MY ROOMATE..

I travel for SNK once again...meaning I want it bad enough!!

-Dark Geese

[Asian Mike]

Dont matter,what people are trying to say to online junkies is that,the social online thing will never top offline social community,like playing next to that person at a freinds house,arcade,or whatever.I dont care how advance online play will get,it will never top the old fashion arcade when all the players meet up on a weekend.Theres not one freind I met outside arcade,Or tournament I hang out with.

Ok heres a good example.Scrubs that comes to the arcade,they lose alot,but they still laugh and joke,conversate with the best players.Its all about having fun and hanging with people that love doing something you doing.The best players would take the time to show you some tricks or hell talk about random shit 2 normal guys would talk about the girls around the mall/cars/whatever

As for online.If you are a scrub.SImple.You will get disconnect/kicked out the game for sucking or be ignore.Plus,who wants to talk about random stuff other then the game you playing to a guy that dont even know how to do a aircombo?Plus I came online to play comp,not to teach scrubs how to play,thats what combovideos/srk stradegy sextion is for.

If their to lazy to dedicate themseleves by simply using the search engine on tips or tactics on how to get better,and what makes you think they are deciated on becoming a better player?You right you wasting your time.Scrubs need to learn,Theres no shortcuts on becoming a good player,it's takes practice and patience,not some top player saying a"this is how"

This post right here pretty much destroyed the whole thread. :rofl: Good shit.

[Dark Geese]

Man I didnt even catch that last part..but its the truth..I HATE when all I get year after year is someone (the same person) asking me to "show them shit"

Do you wanna fucking learn the game or not? :annoy: You dont need me babysitting you your whole life to get good at a game..

that means you are FULL OF SHIT..Once again I've been burnt by many of these lazy types that are truly a waste of time..they rarely improve because they cannot do things for themselves...and will always be light years worse than you because you are teaching them!!!!

[Emil]

Man I didnt even catch that last part..but its the truth..I HATE when all I get year after year is someone (the same person) asking me to "show them shit"

Do you wanna fucking learn the game or not? :annoy: You dont need me babysitting you your whole life to get good at a game..

that means you are FULL OF SHIT..Once again I've been burnt by many of these lazy types that are truly a waste of time..they rarely improve because they cannot do things for themselves...and will always be light years worse than you because you are teaching them!!!!

You're wrong. Why discover all the tricks for yourself when they were already invented by someone else? The road to discovering everything on your own is too long and full of failure. As long as the guy shows you shit, and you try to understand what he's trying to show you, it shouldn't be a problem.

For learning guilty gear, I always head over to the Japanese videos, because I know what they are doing has validity in high level play. A game like guilty gear has so many possible options, many of aren't that effective. For me to have to go through all these options by myself is just too much effort. Analyzing what the best players are showing you and trying to understand why they are doing it, and why it is good, seems like a more logical approach.

[...~*jase*~...]

You're wrong. Why discover all the tricks for yourself when they were already invented by someone else? The road to discovering everything on your own is too long and full of failure. As long as the guy shows you shit, and you try to understand what he's trying to show you, it shouldn't be a problem.

For learning guilty gear, I always head over to the Japanese videos, because I know what they are doing has validity in high level play. A game like guilty gear has so many possible options, many of aren't that effective. For me to have to go through all these options by myself is just too much effort.

Emil I get what you saying is nothing wrong with teaching.That's not a crime to do so,but you are gambling with wasting your precious time when you can be doing something worth your time like washing dishes.

DG is probably stating his same issue with teaching people that don't want to teach themselves is just common since.Why?The way DG is saying it is he probably went down that same road of trying to teach a someone that just was plain lazy(want everything givin to them,if thing dont get it easy,quick,fast,and in a hurry,THEY ARE DONE WITH THAT GAME).Hell I even went down that road.That's like walking past a mvc2 machine,and no one is on the machine,just one guy mashing buttons,and you say to yourself,is it worth breaking my dollar to beat him off,then being stuck playing the CPU afterwards?

But Emil tell me if I wrong,Im going to use mvc2 as a example.

Where Im from we have a good scene its just no one bother to get at tournament level ofplay /or even no what www.shoryuken.com .So how srk name marvel teams,they dont. So you get my driff.Anyways before I met a good freind I still hang with to this day,I was at the arcade running teams like clockwork,msp, and mss.After racking up 80 wins at the arcade,he walked up and pick,MSP.I quickly look over at him and said so whats your name on SRK.Then he told me,that there let me know he was down.He did ok,but wasnt a challenge,but I saw the dedication in there.He explain how you go on srk and look up inf resets,but he wanted advice.

I said "Sure no problem do you have a stick? "

He said yep,just order a mass stick not to long ago.

Blame! that just pump me up to teach him even more.After time went by he trained in the traning roombe himself,look at videos,and so on,then we would play some matches when we meet up on the weekends.He got to that level where he could beat me,while I was trying.THAT'S DECICATION.

As for the the rest of the players there, they would be like how do you do this and this.I gave them this site,gave them combovideos sites.I tell them if they buy a DC I will burn them a a copy of my marvel,Still Nothing,they dont want to even spend 5 dollars on a DC from their local gamestore.I get the arcade to host a tournament finally,but the scrubs don't want to play because they they dont think there going to win it,so thats down the drain.So I'm I wrong when I just say "fuck it scrub do it yourself"?

Anyways Im done.

[JubeiNinja69]

and like they say, there's no point reinventing the wheel.

[Dark Geese]

Thank you..no point in reinventing the wheel...

Yo do what works...period..

Everything to a degree has been done before...so thats a pointless thing to make..

I have done a lot by myself..believe me..everyone has a way things work for them..I found out I dont need people interested in the games near me to get better..

As long as I keep travelling and competing...I can do better by myself than to play with people who as jase says are a waste of time...cheapskates..too fuckiing lazy to get up, go somewhere, enter a real tournament, dedicate themselves.

I'll say it again to reiterate what jase said.."There is no easy road to the top..Online (Kaillera) or Offline...(Staying at home being cheap)"

It takes hard work, persistance, dedication...takes going through bumps and bruises...

Its inevitable..why change that? For you to try and change that means you are indeed looking for a shortcut..and you wont find one..and you will limit your progress and will not get better...

Ive seen it time and time again.

[CapMaster]

As someone who has had a sort of second coming in the scene due to online play (Xbox) I feel the need to say something in this thread. There is of course some validity to it. Yes, you do get a great variety of players and characters, right from your own home. And of course it's not as perfect as offline. You must understand that offline beats online 100 times out of 100. I don't really see that up for debate. However, online play should not always be descredited. You can still have credible, decisive matches that are not lag or screen-freezed altered, or any other bizzare occurance. There's fun and some good to be had, you just need to be smart enough as a player to find it. For people like me who didn't really have anyone to play, I did everything I could do online and translated it to offline to substantially improve. HOWEVER, I say for any game you wanna play online, you have to have a lot of experience with it offline first. That way, you can have a sense of what the differences are, and what will work/not work. Always play both. Always.

I will end this post with this statement. I still hear and see the online naysayers at tournies I've been to, but I think the day is coming soon, if not already, that it's not a shock to see predominantly online players/names placing high in a major. It's a new breed.

[Xero Kaiser]

And Xero Kaiser- Doesnt matter if you play VF or not..my thing as you see is this...stop making excuses. If you want the competition bad enough YOU WILL FIND IT

I grew up in Germany. Do you know what it's like over there? Making excuses my ass. MvC, SF, SS, GGX2, Tekken, SC, KoF, Bloody Roar, whatever...nobody played shit. Anywhere. Ever. It wasn't until DoA4 that I had people to play against. It wasn't until SFAC that I had people to play against. I'm pretty sure you can guess why. There isn't always a scene around you. There aren't always populated arcades around you. Dudes need to stop acting like all you gotta do is click your heels and want it bad enough and everything'll fall into place just because.

So you gotta ask yourself..how bad do you want that VF comp? If you wanted it bad enough you'd come to EVO North

What, was I supposed to hop in a plane and fly across the Atlantic Ocean to play VF with someone (once a year)? The reasonable solution is to start jumping all over the world whenever I want a match? I want comp as much as anyone but there are limitations on how far I'm willing and able to go for it. Everytime I have this conversation someone's telling to travel across the country or fly to Japan....

[ramza]

Making excuses my ass.

you're making excuses. my boy in VA singlehandedly made a small VF scene over here. Just like everywhere else, NOBODY really plays VF here, but my friend actively went out to nearly all the communities to find VF comp, and he found a small group of players to battle and level up with; consequently he recently qualified top 8 at evo east in VF5. there aren't any arcades here(that matter) either, but people that want to play meet up and play. simple as that. if you can't find one person to play 3s, cvs, or marvel with you aren't trying hard enough. and if you really want to find vf comp, then you gotta try much harder. if you want the comp that badly.

[megafighter]

If you want competition badly enough, you'll get it. You can travel around the world, convince some people to play with you, move, whatever. If you want it more than anything else in your life, you are probably going to get it.

However, for most people this is just unhealthy. Some people like Xero Kaiser and probably most members at srk aren't willing to go to such extremes to get competition, and that's fine. Being able to have priorities is a good thing, not a bad one. I don't blame online players so much for avoiding tournaments. I blame some of them for talking shit and then avoiding tournaments.

If you don't want competition , fine. Just don't talk shit then, because most likely you suck.

About the Internet social aspect, I don't think it can be compared to conventional social environments. But this means very little. Maybe Emil, just as an example, plays Kaillera and then goes out with friends and some girls three times a week. And maybe he works with people. Maybe some other guy socializes at the arcade, but never goes out , practice sports and work from home all day on its PC. Emil would have a much more vivid social life.

My point is that gaming is a small part of our lives. You may play online, offline or just watch TV (almost no social interaction whatsoever), and those are all fun hobbies, but the rest of your life matters too and, unless you're one of those crazy guys locked in your room 24/7 to play Wow or whatever, I don't think online vs offline can be much of an issue for you as a person.

[Khiempossible]

I grew up in Germany. Do you know what it's like over there? Making excuses my ass. MvC, SF, SS, GGX2, Tekken, SC, KoF, Bloody Roar, whatever...nobody played shit. Anywhere. Ever. It wasn't until DoA4 that I had people to play against. It wasn't until SFAC that I had people to play against. I'm pretty sure you can guess why. There isn't always a scene around you. There aren't always populated arcades around you. Dudes need to stop acting like all you gotta do is click your heels and want it bad enough and everything'll fall into place just because.



What, was I supposed to hop in a plane and fly across the Atlantic Ocean to play VF with someone (once a year)? The reasonable solution is to start jumping all over the world whenever I want a match? I want comp as much as anyone but there are limitations on how far I'm willing and able to go for it. Everytime I have this conversation someone's telling to travel across the country or fly to Japan....

did you try the train trips to geneva, paris, or whereever rengoku lives in italy?

You're not that far from other countries that have known scenes for different games.

Sometimes all it takes to get a game started is to throw a free competition on a social gaming night? put $5 up if you have to. People will gladly play games for the opportunity to win free money. I've seen it done. A2, a3, BBB. It can happen. Just put some effort into it.

SC? Did you know there was a WORLD tournament for Soul Calibur 2 at cannes film festival 3 years ago? Players from across the states and canada and France's best all flew there. Did you go?

[Dark Geese]

Once again Xero Kaiser..bottom line is how bad do you want it?

I tell my students if you want it bad enough YOU WILL FIND A WAY TO GET IT DONE.

Period.

I dont wanna hear about not being able to etc..Not that I dont understand that but BEEN THERE DONE THAT...

I set my goals out to do what I am doing now..and a year later because of budgeting I DID IT AND AM STILL DOING IT!!

You telling me I can get this done on a measly teacher salary but you can't?? :rofl: But..but but....nope...BUT YOU DONT WANT IT BAD ENOUGH..case closed. If you did you would budget and do what it takes to get it done..even if it took a year or two..you would do it..case in point.

How is it viewed as going to an extreme to travel for comp. when as ramza says the community was built upon this very purpose? You calling Justin Wong an extremist? Alex Valle? Others? Check yourself there. Dont hate..APPRECIATE. For you wouldn't be able to sit at home and watch these match vids and oogle over Daigo parrying Justin Wong at EVO 2004 etc. IF WE DIDNT TRAVEL AND GET SHIT RECORDED...Thats right..nothing would exist if this didnt happen. Some people are just plain lazy.. and I dont have the time, the care, nor the patience for that :tdown:...theres other willing people out there I'd rather spend my time catering to. Sounds cold but I've been burnt too many times from people like this!!!

Once again as ramza says..you are making excuses. And not to be harsh, but as I tell my students..I've been burnt far too many times trying to help people that dont want to be helped.

I've stopped doing that.

You gotta help yourself before others will help you case in point. So its hard for me to feel sympathy for people if they aint showing the effort themselves..

[Xero Kaiser]

you're making excuses. my boy in VA singlehandedly made a small VF scene over here. Just like everywhere else, NOBODY really plays VF here, but my friend actively went out to nearly all the communities to find VF comp, and he found a small group of players to battle and level up with; consequently he recently qualified top 8 at evo east in VF5. there aren't any arcades here(that matter) either, but people that want to play meet up and play. simple as that. if you can't find one person to play 3s, cvs, or marvel with you aren't trying hard enough. and if you really want to find vf comp, then you gotta try much harder. if you want the comp that badly.

Interesting. Though, I do wonder how I'm supposed to make a scene with no game. I'd love to play HnK so if you can tell me how I'm supposed pull a machine out of my ass, I'd be glad to hear it.

Sure, every now and then I stumble across one or two people who play a little Tekken or KOF, but I doubt 2 or 3 people qualify as a "scene". Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Should I be going door-to-door asking if people play Guilty Gear? Is there a secret handshake or decoder ring I don't know about? Enlighten me, because if I walked into an arcade and there wasn't anything but a broken SC2 machine and an abandoned MvC2 machine, I admit I have no idea how I was supposed to create a scene from that.

Once again Xero Kaiser..bottom line is how bad do you want it?

Not bad enough to strap on my red headband and white gi, sling a bag over my shoulders and travel the world for it. Believe or not, arranging your life around arcade comp isn't always a possibility

not that I'm knocking you or anyone else who does that. But flying around the world on a whim isn't something I can do

[Asian Mike]

About the Internet social aspect, I don't think it can be compared to conventional social environments. But this means very little. Maybe Emil, just as an example, plays Kaillera and then goes out with friends and some girls three times a week. And maybe he works with people. Maybe some other guy socializes at the arcade, but never goes out , practice sports and work from home all day on its PC. Emil would have a much more vivid social life.
.

HUH? :confused:

You missed the whole point,no one is talking about anyone having a life or not,the argument is about the players enjoying more of a social aspect gaming with each other online or offline.Wtf are you talking about,the only thing it seems is you kissing emils dick,and sticking up for kalleria.Everyone knows gaming is just a our hobbies so where are you going with this?

[Dark Geese]

Kaiser but you are missing the big picture..

Do you not know I SPONSOR PEOPLE FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE??

If they really show me they want to travel and do not have the means I TAKE CARE OF THIS?

Once again you are missing the equation. And apparently you have missed the chance for me to sponsor you because you have conveyed the idea to me that you ain't hardcore...thats the vibe I get. (Whether you want my cash or not you gotta understand that when people really want something others reach out to help bottom line!)

Top players in any game dont make excuses..WE FIND SOLUTIONS.. Believe me I could cop out or use any and every reason to cop out/not travel..but I aint...

Who says I gotta arrange my life around it? You are making us seem like we have no life. I am a very busy man...


But I know what I want..and I dont stop till I get it..some people have that fire..others dont...A quality of a top player is having that fire!!!!

[Xero Kaiser]

Once again you are missing the equation. And apparently you have missed the chance for me to sponsor you because you have conveyed the idea to me that you anit hardcore...thats the vibe I get.

What you described doesn't sound hardcore, it sounds obsessive. If it works for some people, cool. But acting like I'm not "trying" because I haven't spent my life literally travelling all over the fucking world for some fighting game comp is just ridiculous.

I don't know what's so hard to understand. I never said that you have no life, I'm just saying that this kinda shit isn't an option for everybody. My circumstances are not your circumstances.

[Dark Geese]

Once again Kaiser reach out and get people to help you..once again man if you really want it there are people to help you...but the last thing you do is make excuses..thats the truth...

Thats what makes you seem weak...just being honest..

Excuses are like an asshole..everyone has one..and it stinks...

You live in FLA? How bout I get you to EVO East next year for VF? Deal???

Heres your chance to show me how bad you want it...

And its funny hearing people say "obsessive" in relation to this..

You have to be to be the best its what drives us...the bloodlust for competition..to win....period..many dont understand that hence they will never see our POV or become anywhere close to us..it takes blood, sweat and tears...

Its what separates casual players from hardcore..who has that bloodlust and who doesnt?

[DS]

Sure, every now and then I stumble across one or two people who play a little Tekken or KOF, but I doubt 2 or 3 people qualify as a "scene". Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Should I be going door-to-door asking if people play Guilty Gear? Is there a secret handshake or decoder ring I don't know about? Enlighten me, because if I walked into an arcade and there wasn't anything but a broken SC2 machine and an abandoned MvC2 machine, I admit I have no idea how I was supposed to create a scene from that.



You do realize that everything is mainly console. Florida comp is a drive for you. There's definitely a healthy scene in Florida.

[ramza]

Interesting. Though, I do wonder how I'm supposed to make a scene with no game. I'd love to play HnK so if you can tell me how I'm supposed pull a machine out of my ass, I'd be glad to hear it.

Sure, every now and then I stumble across one or two people who play a little Tekken or KOF, but I doubt 2 or 3 people qualify as a "scene". Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Should I be going door-to-door asking if people play Guilty Gear? Is there a secret handshake or decoder ring I don't know about? Enlighten me, because if I walked into an arcade and there wasn't anything but a broken SC2 machine and an abandoned MvC2 machine, I admit I have no idea how I was supposed to create a scene from that.



Not bad enough to strap on my red headband and white gi, sling a bag over my shoulders and travel the world for it. Believe or not, arranging your life around arcade comp isn't always a possibility

not that I'm knocking you or anyone else who does that. But flying around the world on a whim isn't something I can do

which game is it that you're actually trying to play? there are tekken, guilty gear, and vf sites with matchmaking threads. starting off in any of those is a good start. you don't need arcades to have a scene, the majority of md/va are console players. no need to travel the world, you have final round yearly, and plenty of EC events to choose from.

[Xero Kaiser]

You live in FLA?

At the moment, yes, but not for long. We don't even know where we'll be by the end of fall, much less next year. So you'll understand if I hold off on making any promises to go to a tournament I don't even know the location for now

You do realize that everything is mainly console. Florida comp is a drive for you. There's definitely a healthy scene in Florida.

I was mainly talking about my experiences in Germany. I just got to FL and I imagine that there's more players over here than there were over there (even if most of the arcades I've been to so far have sucked), but I haven't given it too much thought until I saw this topic

[Khiempossible]

At the moment, yes, but not for long. We don't even know where we'll be by the end of fall, much less next year. So you'll understand if I hold off on making any promises to go to a tournament I don't even know the location for now



I was mainly talking about my experiences in Germany. I just got to FL and I imagine that there's more players over here than there were over there (even if most of the arcades I've been to so far have sucked), but I haven't given it too much thought until I saw this topic

stop being a douche, we have a matchmaking forum.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20

[Xero Kaiser]

stop being a douche, we have a matchmaking forum.


Didn't I just say that I haven't given it any thought until just now? I'm not playing any fighting games at the moment, so I never had a reason to poke my head in there. I'll have to check that out whenever Tekken 6 comes out, though

[nothingxs]

Didn't I just say that I haven't given it any thought until just now? I'm not playing any fighting games at the moment, so I never had a reason to poke my head in there. I'll have to check that out whenever Tekken 6 comes out, though

Travel to local FL tournaments. There's on in Orlando you could go to at the end of June, and WPB has tournaments thanks to WiLL.

[megafighter]

HUH? :confused:

You missed the whole point,no one is talking about anyone having a life or not,the argument is about the players enjoying more of a social aspect gaming with each other online or offline.Wtf are you talking about,the only thing it seems is you kissing emils dick,and sticking up for kalleria.Everyone knows gaming is just a our hobbies so where are you going with this?

If you just check the MvC1 thread you will see that nobody is bashing the Kaillera wannabes harder than I am. However, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Socializing at an arcade is a crappy way of socializing, IMO. Sociallizing on Kaillera is crappier and watching TV is crappier than both. If you want to get social, go talk to some girls. It shouldn't be so hard...

Asides from that, I don't see the point of having a debate on who's nerdier. The Kaillera guys lose at the game, but everything else is just hate.


And DG , now I too think Xeno is making some excuses. Either that or he just does not care that much, which its OK. But being in the US its really easy to find at least some comp. I don't think you should sponsor guys like him though. I say you save your money to help in those international challenges and maybe SNK tournaments getting Asian and Mexican players together or some other hot stuff.

[Dark Geese]

Megafighter you're right.

[Asian Mike]

If you just check the MvC1 thread you will see that nobody is bashing the Kaillera wannabes harder than I am. However, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Socializing at an arcade is a crappy way of socializing, IMO. Sociallizing on Kaillera is crappier and watching TV is crappier than both. If you want to get social, go talk to some girls. It shouldn't be so hard...
.

you missing the point man,we are talking about socializing about gaming is better offline.we not talking about our life being in the arcade.talking to girls and other life activities is a different story.you missing the point,and far from it.

[Dali]

online is way better... cant believe theres even a debate

[DevilJin 01]

online is way better... cant believe theres even a debate

So much truth in this post.

Oh and I think it would be a good idea to start a debate between on and offline play. I never really considered it actually. Wait...online is better I forgot.

[The Illuminati]

Online play is easier so it wins the internet. . .

[Asian Mike]

let me join in,online play is godly.fuck offline its has to much delay,online play is much faster and smoother.you guys dont know what you are missing.everyone online has to much skill,fuck that there too good.

[The Illuminati]

The Reality lag of off-line makes it un-playable.

[Return of Shiki]

the reason people online refuse to go off sometimes, is because 3s doesn't have tom hanks.

New Sig!

[Slide]

I don't think there would be such a big issue or problem if some of you guys would atleast travel to something offline every once in awhile, whenever you could.

I suppose the same can be said about playing something online too, but everyone has probably tried that atleast once though. Some online players have never played decent or great competition offline, at. all.

[pc1x1]

I grew up in Germany. Do you know what it's like over there? Making excuses my ass. MvC, SF, SS, GGX2, Tekken, SC, KoF, Bloody Roar, whatever...nobody played shit. Anywhere. Ever. It wasn't until DoA4 that I had people to play against. It wasn't until SFAC that I had people to play against. I'm pretty sure you can guess why. There isn't always a scene around you. There aren't always populated arcades around you. Dudes need to stop acting like all you gotta do is click your heels and want it bad enough and everything'll fall into place just because.



What, was I supposed to hop in a plane and fly across the Atlantic Ocean to play VF with someone (once a year)? The reasonable solution is to start jumping all over the world whenever I want a match? I want comp as much as anyone but there are limitations on how far I'm willing and able to go for it. Everytime I have this conversation someone's telling to travel across the country or fly to Japan....

Well I understand that Florida indeed sometimes is hard to find someone to play with, especially if your not near a university etc. However if you want to play, your welcome to play vs me, and or some other friends on the scene. At least we can play on Xbox live, with no lag. But if you want competition don't worry I'll find it for ya ;). We don't have alot of VF5, I played VF up to 3. Because PS3's are meh IMO, but everything else your set ;). At least for casual play, etc. :wgrin:.

[FMJaguar]

I suppose the same can be said about playing something online too, but everyone has probably tried that atleast once though. Some online players have never played decent or great competition offline, at. all.

When SF was big, the overwhelming majority of players, although they played offline, didn't go out and seek great competition anyway. A lot of them talked the same shit, and tried to bait ppl the same way. "Oh i'm the shit at this mall", "No i'm not coming there, you come here! My Bison is the best" etc.. etc..

WTF are you going to do offline? Drive a half hour to their mall for: 1) Them not to show, 2) if they do show to play you 2 games and then call you cheap and leave, 3) If you beat them 10-1, that 1 game was 'the real game'.

Its all the same stuff, just different medium.

If someone is a random shit talker, whatever, good for them, move on to the next player. It's not some grand comment on the state of the scene, they always have existed, they always will exist.

[azis]

Didn´t this thread just started the Offline vs Online discussion all again?

What a contradiction.

[NeREMIXED]

i like dios-x- over any kaillera player.

on kaillera.

[nothingxs]

Okay.

I think that now that GGPO.net exists, we can effectively say that Sabin VS T-Kimura is no longer such an impossibility.

Sorry for the thread necrosis, but I actually want to see discussion on this becoming a possibility. What do you all think?

[Emil]

I think that now that GGPO.net exists, we can effectively say that Sabin VS T-Kimura is no longer such an impossibility.

Not really. Since many people make assumptions about kaillera's lag without ever playing on it, I'm sure many people will do the same for GGPO, just because it is falls under the category of "online play".

[Dandy J]

GGPO

f

[4649]

Not really. Since many people make assumptions about kaillera's lag without ever playing on it, I'm sure many people will do the same for GGPO, just because it is falls under the category of "online play".

i like me over you in alpha 2 on ggpo

[FMJaguar]

I think that now that GGPO.net exists, we can effectively say that Sabin VS T-Kimura is no longer such an impossibility.

Sabin vs T-Kimura has nothing to do with online play, so this won't really affect it.

[HuStLeMaN17]

Ever heard of Evolution, and no NOT THE SRK TOURNY!

- Online is here to stay guys like it or not.

[nothingxs]

Sabin vs T-Kimura has nothing to do with online play, so this won't really affect it.

who cares i like sabin over t-kimura on ggpo $50 let's dance

[mythicExile]

just saying somethign about what emil said onthe first page:
having to spot lag abuse patterns ISNT playing the game anymore. its just playing the crappy internet connection.
even IF it maeks your reaction better, it'll only do it for the online play. so your offline play will still be as weak as before

[Emil]

i like me over you in alpha 2 on ggpo

???

We never played. Do you want to make a bet regarding whether you would beat me?

MythicalExile, I agree except that...there will always be some people offline, that will use scrub online tactics (due to their lack of knowledge...or whatever the reason may be). In that case, you will probably need to know how to beat even the dumb tactics. I've heard cases of scrub tactics beating good players in a tournament just because those good players had never seen such whack tactics before.

But yeah in most cases, learning how to beat dumb tactics wouldn't be that important if you are striving to be good in the highest levels of gameplay..

[DS]

Not really. Since many people make assumptions about kaillera's lag without ever playing on it, I'm sure many people will do the same for GGPO, just because it is falls under the category of "online play".


For being public, GGPO sure does a lot better than Kaillera. Input lag doesn't exist at all. And that's a shocker. Have you tried it yet?

[Emil]

For being public, GGPO sure does a lot better than Kaillera. Input lag doesn't exist at all. And that's a shocker. Have you tried it yet?

Yeah I did try it, and liked it a lot...but I'm not really big on learning SFA2. It was refreshing to be able to easily anti-air jump attacks with supers and dps on reaction.

I still don't understand how it manages to remove delay though, even for people from South America.

[4649]

???

We never played. Do you want to make a bet regarding whether you would beat me?

MythicalExile, I agree except that...there will always be some people offline, that will use scrub online tactics (due to their lack of knowledge...or whatever the reason may be). In that case, you will probably need to know how to beat even the dumb tactics. I've heard cases of scrub tactics beating good players in a tournament just because those good players had never seen such whack tactics before.

But yeah in most cases, learning how to beat dumb tactics wouldn't be that important if you are striving to be good in the highest levels of gameplay..

actually i'm pretty sure i did play you, weren't you only using Guy and using some Light Yagami / Death Note related gamertag?
cause if thats the case then i think we already know who would beat who.
take a walk.

[megafighter]

Okay.

I think that now that GGPO.net exists, we can effectively say that Sabin VS T-Kimura is no longer such an impossibility.

Sorry for the thread necrosis, but I actually want to see discussion on this becoming a possibility. What do you all think?

It was never such an impossibility, because Sabi