Differences within the SF3 series

[Donkus]

With the recent cracking of CPS-3, I thought it might be interesting to post a list of differences the old SF3 games have compared to Third Strike. I'm pointing out general differences between the games and individual character differences. For CPS-3 info, see the stickied thread in Tech Talk.

Don't ask about ROMs or ask to be PMed about ROMs; it will get you banned.

*****

Each character is compared to their Third Strike version. The only exception is True Gouki who is compared to the normal Second Impact version of himself.

While blocking a multi-hit move, like a super art, you don't have to hold back on the stick. You can block the first hit and all of them should be blocked.

Damage from moves is pretty consistent across the series, with a few exceptions. It's nothing like the difference between SF2WW and SSF2T.

The DC versions of these game were not perfect ports. Some infinites were removed and parries work differently.

My list is very incomplete. I know almost nothing about some characters. Feel free to make your own comments and I'll edit them into the list.


*New Generation* How is it different from Third Strike?

-In Third Strike you have to go to neutral in between parries. Not in NG (for at least the first parry), which is where the "empty DP parry" comes from. DC lost this feature.

-Parry timing feels different

-No EX moves

-No red parries

-No taunts

-UOH is d,d,P/K

-Throws are f/b+P/K

-As a consequence, kara-throws probably do not exist for non command throws

-Can parry in the air by pressing d

-If you parry in the air by pressing f, a lot of backward momentum is added to your character. This is true even if you jumped straight up. So if you super jump forward and air parry Ken's jHP, you will fly backwards before you have a chance to counter.

-If you parry in the air by pressing d, a lot of forward momentum is added to your character. Same as above but you get thrown toward the opponent. The parries in Third Strike are most similar to this one, but it's still different.

-You can quickstand from some Super Arts

-You don't get meter for quickstanding

-All charcters do much more stun damage

-Characters are usually faster on their normals. This allows for many links that would be impossible in 3rd strike. There are a ton of these and I only know a handful, so I will not usually list these.

-Everyone builds meter faster

-Stun bar lengths are the same in across games. For example, Dudley, Alex, and Oro are always harder to stun than Ryu and Ken.

These are the character specific differences I can think of. Very incomplete. c= close, d= ducking



RYU
Shinku Hadoken is 1 bar, does not recover fast enough to allow normal follow ups
Shinshoryuken hits 3 times, has more horizontal range, does a huge amount of damage to crouching targets
HK hurricane can hit multiple times in the arcade only(?)
HDP hits twice; opponent stays on the ground for the first hit
No air hurricane
Fireballs knockdown airborne targets
Has an infinite with the Shinshoryuken
Doesn't have f+HP
Can't charge Denjin faster by rotating the stick


KEN
No air hurricane
No double LDP combos
Fireballs knockdown airborne targets
Rolling throw only rolls once
b+MK is now f+MK
Doesn't have f+MK
Doesn't have f+HK
Shinryuken is 2 bars
SA3 hits 1 more time
Infinite is LDP*n against a target that was in the air.
jMK has a smaller hitbox


SEAN
DP is the Dragon Smash
Arcade only can cancel Hado Burst into itself(?)
HP is a different move
HK is a different move
dLP cancels fireballs(!)
Target combo is MP,HP
Doesn't have f+HP
Has either got invincibility frames or a screwed up hitbox on his parabolic kick
MK uses the same animation as LK
Can link SA3 from many specials
Can charge meter too quickly by holding f/b and pressing any non light normal

*SHOTO NOTES*
dMK is has less range, is harder to supercancel from
dMK doesn't move you forward like it does in Third Strike.
dHK has less range
dLK,dLK, super is much harder to do



ORO
Can't EX his super arts
No double jump
Arcade has an infinite with Tengu Stone
Tengu Stone lasts longer
Blocking the Tengu Stone does way too much damage

DUDLEY
Has an infinite against himself: MK,HK, repeat. Works on DC, good for about 4 repititons.
Corkscrew Blow does stun damage

*Dudley Notes* Dudley's 100% combo against Dudley is MK,HK,MK,HK,MK,HK,MK,HK,Corkscrew Blow(stun)...

ALEX
Arcade can Hyperbomb from anywhere on the screen, like SF2 Zangief's magic SPD
MP Flash Chop infinite against Elena only. Works on DC
Doesn't have Backdrop Bomb
Doesn't have f+HP
Doesn't have the Elbow Slash
Doesn't have the Spiral DDT
A few normals use different animations

ELENA
?

YUN/YANG
These two share the same moves
They don't have Raishin Mahaken and You-Hou
There are no Mantis Slashes
Arcade has an infinite
Air target combo is jLP,jLK, 3 hits, knocks down
Air target combo does block damage on the second and possibly third hit
MK is now cMK
Target combo is cLP,cMP,HP
Target combo is LP,LK
Genei Jin lasts longer
Tenshin Senkyutai has more priority and stun damage

NECRO
Magnetic Storm is 2 bars
Elbow command is different (df+HP)
Uppercut command is different (db+HP)
Has an infinite against Dudley
HP and HK have less range


IBUKI
Has the Hashin-Sho instead of Yami Shigure
Infinite is cHK*n. Removed in the DC.
Can't dash through opponents
dMP is different
dMK is different
b+MK is now MK
Doesn't have QCF+P
If the opponent is blocking the Yoroi Dooshi up close, the Super Raida won't process

GILL
Resurrection is his only super
Cyber Lariat is unblockable up close


*Second Impact* How is it different from Third Strike?

-No red parries
-True Gouki can be fought if you never lose and defeat Gouki with either a perfect or SA
-Taunts give much more meter
-Arcade allows you to EX your universal overhead, it drains meter and does nothing else (Gouki can't do this)
-air parrying is more wild and can be done by pressing d or f, this still feels a bit less wild than in New Generation
-the game runs faster, and some characters "feel" faster anyway

RYU
Denjin is 2 bars
Shinku recovers slower so follow ups are harder
cHP, HK Donkey Kick combos against non-stunned standing targets in this game only
doesn't have f+HP
Fireballs knock down airborne targets
LK Hurricane spins more times

KEN
No double LDP combos
Rolling throw only rolls once
Can link supers from his ground EX Hurricane
Fireballs knock down airborne targets
b+MK is f+MK
Doesn't have f+RK
doesn't have f+MK
Can link HDP from ground EX Hurricane
SA3 hits 12 times against some people, 9 times against everyone else

*About Ken*
Without meter, less dangerous than his 3S counterpart. With meter, he is more dangerous since almost every move except HK results in a super. Much better at linking than in 3S.


SEAN
DP is the Dragon Smash
Several supers will hit a grounded Hugo after the overhead throw
HK is a different move
HP is a different move
Can link SA3 from many moves
Can charge meter too quickly by holding f/b and pressing any non light normal

*About Sean*
Hyper Tornado links from MP, cMP, cHP, cHK, dHP, dMP, Tornado Kick, EX Tornado Kick, EX Parabolic Kick, target combo.

DUDLEY
Has the Thunderbolt

IBUKI
Has the Hashin Sho instead of Yami Shigure
dMP is different
dMK is different
b+MK is now MK
Doesn't have QCF+P
If the opponent is blocking the Yoroi Dooshi up close, the Super Raida won't process


ELENA
?

YUN
Can't juggle with Genei Jin as long as he can now
Can't link LP into the MP,HP,b+HP target combo
Doesn't have Dragon Kicks
Has Yang's rolling kicks
Doesn't have f+HP
Has the target combo LP,LK,MP
dHK has a different animation

YANG
Raishin Mahaken is 2 bars, starts faster, is unsafe if blocked
Can link Tenshin Senkyutai from LK,MK,HK target combo
Has the target combo dLK,dMK,dHK. dHK doesn't combo


NECRO
Elbow command is different (df+HP)
Uppercut command is different (db+HP)
Blocked elbow pushes Necro back too far
Drill kicks are safer(?)
HP and HK have less range

URINE
Spheres don't freeze opponents in place
Can't delay spheres by holding the button
EX Sphere looks different
If Aegis unblockables exist no one has reported it
Violent Knee attack doesn't knock down ground opponents
Doesn't have f+HP
Doesn't have f+MP
Has f+MP (different from Third Strike's)
Can juggle longer with EX Headbutts
Jupiter Thunder does much less stun damage and cannot be blocked on reaction
Tyrant Punish cannot be blocked on reaction


HUGO
Arcade has rapid fire jabs (DC can only get 3 hits, arcade hits 5 or 6 times)
Arcade has a corner clap infinite
His HP is the same as Third Strike's f+HP
His cHP is the same as Third Strike's HP
Has a Gill-only infinite
EX Lariat can't be delayed by holding the buttons
cHP resets airborne opponents
Claps push opponents back further, making some combos more difficult or impossible
LP is super-cancelable
SA3 holds the opponent in place upon activation for a longer period of time


ORO
No EX Super Arts
No double jump


GOUKI
Has a move similar to Sean's roll
Doesn't have the Demon Flip
Doesn't have the Kongou Kokuretsuzan
Different animation on MP
Air fireball angle is different
Dive kick is better, angle is more shallow, opponent has more recovery frames(?), safer if parried
SA1 pushes the opponent up and has more reovery, making some Third Strike combos impossible or very difficult
Air SA1 misses hits more easily since the opponent is pushed away
Grounded SA3 cannot be blocked on reaction
Doesn't have cHK
SA2 is the same as Ken's SA1
SGS can be input as LP, forward, LK, HP
SA3 does a very small amount of stun damage
Messatsu Gourasen (the ground version of SA3) cannot be blocked on reaction

*About Gouki*
He feels about an extra 50% faster than his Third Strike version.
SA1 is much harder to use in combos. SA2 is worse than it used to be. SA3 is better than it used to be.

*Shoto Notes*
dMK doesn't throw them forward upon connecting, making some Third Strike combos more difficult or impossible
Different crouching parry animation
Can hit Hugo with several supers after the over-shoulder throw

ALEX
Can link SAs 1 and 2 after LP Flash Chop
Missing some Third Strike normals
EX Charging Elbow Slash doesn't knock down
Doesn't have f+HP
Doesn't have Spiral DDT
Boomerang Raid has a much shorter meter

GILL
Doesn't have Seraphic Wing
Can't supercancel from fireballs

TRUE GOUKI
Better defense
All attacks do more damage
Larger cancel window on some moves
Two air fireballs
Recovers faster from SA1
Shun Goku Satsu is faster
Some of Gouki's combos must be performed differently with him

Got some info from very old posts here on SRK: Strider-Hiryu and ngamer7 for some Necro, Twin, Oro, and Alex items for Second Impact. Apoc for Sean's projectile-killing dLP.

[Rhio2k]

"URINE" :rofl:

[FlyMike]

Nice. I was gonna make a thread asking this same question. I've only had extensive time with 3S. I've spent few to no time with NG & 2I. You're covering the gameplay differences so I thought I'd ask a few questions(mostly cosmetic):

Is it me or do NG/2I stages look better and richer?

Any known reason why they took out the kickass post-fight quote scenes(the ones where the opponent is beat to a pulp.)? They reminded me of SF2 while taking it a step above and looked cooler than 3S's bland same character art quote screens. Definitely the best and most refined as far as gameplay, but imo it feels like 3S was rushed just a bit presentation-wise.....

Yang and Yun deviated from each other in 3S I believe(?). So who still has most of the original style or do both their present styles borrow moves from the former one?

[kof4life]

Nice. I was gonna make a thread asking this same question. I've only had extensive time with 3S. I've spent few to no time with NG & 2I. You're covering the gameplay differences so I thought I'd ask a few questions(mostly cosmetic):

Is it me or do NG/2I stages look better and richer?

Any known reason why they took out the kickass post-fight quote scenes(the ones where the opponent is beat to a pulp.)? They reminded me of SF2 while taking it a step above and looked cooler than 3S's bland same character art quote screens. Definitely the best and most refined as far as gameplay, but imo it feels like 3S was rushed just a bit presentation-wise.....

Yang and Yun deviated from each other in 3S I believe(?). So who still has most of the original style or do both their present styles borrow moves from the former one?

In NG, Yang was Yun's second costume. In 2I, they became seperate characters, if that's what you mean by deviated. Yun had Tenshin Senkyutai as one of his SAs in NG, but that was given to Yang and replaced with You Hou,keeping Sourai Rengeki and Genei Jin. Yang got Raishin Mahhaken and Seiei Enbu, as well as his mantis slashes. They shared most of their normals. Some of them became what they are in 3s (s.Hp,cr.HP,etc.) . Others were not (Yang's s.HK was still too similar to Yun's). Also, Yun didn't have dragon kicks yet. He had what is now the Yang-exclsuive roll-up-to-kick.

So looking at that, I'd say they were already pretty different in 2I, and even more so in 3S.


To add to the 2I section, Ryu's Denjin bar is shorter than it is in 3S, and with two meters....:cool: Also, he could cancel into Shin shoryu off of ANY normal shoryu and actually hit, where he would whiff in 3s.


For NG Ryu, spinning the stick (or rotating on the pad) doesn't increase how fast you charge Denjin. :sad: Also, c.HP is a lot harder to cancel from, especially into tatsu.

For 2I Alex, all of supers don't give room to utilize EX's that much. Boomerang Raid and Stungun both have extrememly short meters, and Hyper Bomb has the usual.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall taunts giving any bonuses the way they do in 3S.

EDIT: Something for 2I Ken. His Shippu scores 9 hits on certain characters and 12 others. Still can't find a pattern, because it hits 9 times on Sean and 12 on Ryu.

[gilley]

OK, I just got off the phone with one of my friends where we discussed this. Back when SF3 first came out, a couple of arcades in the Atlanta area got it really fast. What I've come to the conclusion is that there were early versions of SF3:NG and then later updated versions were released, similar to what happened with 3S(verA/verB).

The reason why I think this is because I remember Necro having different properties than the NG that I played on the emulator the other day. The first thing I remember being different is his Slam Dance super. On the emulator, Necro just reaches out and grabs for his opponent when you do the Slam Dance. The machines I played on though, he didn't do this. Necro jumped at you before grabbing. Think of it exactly like Sodom's SPD, he hopped.

It was so much better in this "early" version of SF3. It had alot more range and would beat out other grab supers(hyperbomb) because he was considered to be in the air when you did this super.

The next thing that I noticed that was different was the Electric Snake super. In the "early" version of SF3, this super had a screwed up hitbox, meaning it was really really hard to hit Necro during this super. It was perfect anti-air, anti-wake up, anti-poke. Bascially it was anti-everything. It had alot of frames of invincibility, you could only hit Necro when he was recovering from it. I remember using it to beat every super in the game, even stuff like if someone tried to chip me on wake up with a Shinryuken. I would wake up with a Electric Snake and it was like Necro wasn't even there. I would hit Ken out of the Shinryuken clean. After playing around with Necro in this emulator, I found that the Electric Snake doesn't have any invincibility on startup and is essentially like his 3S version.

I was talking with my friend on the phone about this and he remembers that Ken/Ryu's Shoryuken had horrible priority and it was really easy to jump kick them out of it. I remember being able to do this too.

I guess I had no idea that all along I was playing on this wierd version of SF3. I was always arguing that Necro was top tier in NG, saying his Electric Snake super was way better than the Magnetic Storm. Everyone always used Magnetic Storm back in the day cause you could store 2 of them. I aways argued that Electric Snake just did a little bit less damage, and way more stun. It still had better invincibility than the Magnetic Storm. When SF3: Double Impact came out on DC, I argued that it was a crappy translation cause Necro's supers weren't the same as NG.

Maybe someone else who actually played NG back in the day can confirm some of this. Were there multiple versions of NG? Maybe eventually this early version will get put in a rom format where we could play it on a emulator some day. Could be fun to screw around with.

[TTZ231]

I liked normal grabbing better than 3S/A3 type of crap.

But in general(I know this is true with Dudley losing that air move) sounds like everyone got nerfed somehow.

[Rhio2k]

Is it me or do NG/2I stages look better and richer?


It's a Capcom thing. They do that with every second game. Then the third game comes along, and half-asses on such things.

[FlyMike]

It's a Capcom thing. They do that with every second game. Then the third game comes along, and half-asses on such things.

Lol. Why though? I mean what the fuck? Is there a sensible, legitimate reason? Like maybe more animation for the characters took away from the backgrounds? If so, I guess I could buy that.....

[Rhio2k]

Who's gonna complain? Their fans? Think of this as an ice cream business. Capcom makes chocolate. tasty. Then they make chocolate cherry swirl. Motha-FUCKING tasty. Then they put mix chocolate mint and cow shit in containers and sell it as frosty moose pie, and nobody would complain (Fans TOO loyal), except for those guys who eat other brands too, so they don't count.

[Donkus]

Gilley I wouldn't be surprised if there was some early version of NG that is little played. Necro is someone I never used, so I don't remember about him. I think that version may be where the Ryu hurricane kick infinite comes from because I can't get it to work now.

Kof4life, taunts give bonuses in Second Impact. I noticed Ken's SA3 hitting different times there also, but thought I was imagining it. You've seen it too. I don't know what causes this.

[Shade]

It's a Capcom thing. They do that with every second game. Then the third game comes along, and half-asses on such things.

IMO, it's a mixed bag. Some of the stages are boring/bad to me in 2I and 3S, while others are awesome (in both). Also 2I reuses alog of NG stages. So I wouldn't say Capcom went "all out" with 2I, either.

[Embryo]

I wonder how a "Hyper SF3" game would effect the tiers. I can imagine NG-Sean, SI-Ryu and almost the rest of the cast being pushed to high mid tier, low high tier now.

[Elu]

Dunno if this was stated or not. In OG SF3 you could also parry projectiles with the d parry. And also OG SF3/2i the UOHs did ungodly stun compared to 3s. All in all I still prefer 2i over 3s. The game felt a bit faster than 3s. Also the game was broken but fun.

[Henaki]

This is a cool thread and all but it probably deserves to go in the 3S forum :X

[Lord BBH]

Maybe someone else who actually played NG back in the day can confirm some of this. Were there multiple versions of NG? Maybe eventually this early version will get put in a rom format where we could play it on a emulator some day. Could be fun to screw around with.

Wow, that stuff's pretty wild. That'd be great if someone found one of the early revisions and dumped it indeed. It never seems like any of the "location test" or early revisions get dumped. I still want to play the "Sample" version of SFA3 again. :(

[rogueyoshi]

NG ryu has an infinite with shinshoryuken, and the twins in NG have an infinite with geneijin. both can be seen here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8123034546518086523).

[EveryFlowerFlow]

EDIT: Something for 2I Ken. His Shippu scores 9 hits on certain characters and 12 others. Still can't find a pattern, because it hits 9 times on Sean and 12 on Ryu.

It hits 12 versus his "rivals"/people he doesn't like. Alex, Ryu Gill, and I think Akuma

[el_diablo]

Gouki's raging demon was :lp::r::lk::hp: in 2I.

[Jida]

It hits 12 versus his "rivals"/people he doesn't like. Alex, Ryu Gill, and I think Akuma

Oh. THAT'S the explanation. Damn man, I went for years without getting to the bottom of that.

EDIT:

Apparently NG Gill is OTG fodder.
Ken's EX tatsu links into fierce shoryu
Shoto Crouching parry animation is different


Actually everyone should probably just watch that Skillsmith combo vid.

[RhythmVictim]

One thing that really bothers me between 2I and 3S is that in 2I the stages change time of day or location inbetween rounds. This is more typically seen in SNK fighters and is adds a pleasant change to a fight across rounds.

[Dragonfave723]

One thing that really bothers me between 2I and 3S is that in 2I the stages change time of day or location inbetween rounds. This is more typically seen in SNK fighters and is adds a pleasant change to a fight across rounds.

The only character who have 2 backgrounds in 2ndImpact is Elena. In "New Generation", every characters (except Alex, Oro, and Gill) has at least 2 different backgrounds. Ibuki has the most with 3 (day, sunset, night).

[Lord BBH]

*About Sean*
Hyper Tornado links from HP, MP, cMP, cHK, dHP, dMP, f+HP, Tornado Kick, EX Tornado Kick, EX Parabolic Kick, target combo. Not sure if HP and cHK are true links due to their long cancel windows.

Sean can not link a Hyper Tornado after f+HP. His f+HP actually puts him at frame disadvantage when it hits, meaning the opponent can actually super him back after taking the hits! So it's suicidal when the opponent has meter.

DUDLEY
Doesn't have the Punch and Cross

Is the Punch and Cross the hcb, f + P? Because he does have this in both NG and 2I.

[Hol Horse]

about NG backgrounds: sometimes in 2nd Round Elena's stage there's Adon fighting another guy on the second bridge (I love when they stop and turn to watch your fight), sometimes it's empty. What does trigger that?

Oh, when Oro sumons Tengu Stone there's much more variety in summoned objects. Quite hilarious stuff here and there.

[Henaki]

Sean can not link a Hyper Tornado after f+HP. His f+HP actually puts him at frame disadvantage when it hits, meaning the opponent can actually super him back after taking the hits! So it's suicidal when the opponent has meter.
If it's only like -3 or whatever he would get enough frame advantage to do a SA3 on low hit.

[kof4life]

Another thing for NG Ken. His j.MK isn't the cross-up type kick he has in 2I and 3S. It's the same as Ryu's. At least,that's what it is on DC,and I don't know if it was different in the arcade.

[kev_the_bev]

about NG backgrounds: sometimes in 2nd Round Elena's stage there's Adon fighting another guy on the second bridge (I love when they stop and turn to watch your fight), sometimes it's empty. What does trigger that?

Oh, when Oro sumons Tengu Stone there's much more variety in summoned objects. Quite hilarious stuff here and there.

are you sure that it's adon?

[Tsumuri]

Hugo's Hammer Mountain super art is MUCH better in this game. It freezes the opponent in place for the first 1 1/2 steps of Hugo's run, making things like jump back HP into Super happen, where as in Third Strike, it doesn't freeze the opponent in place

[Mike C]

2nd impact yang chain low short to low forward. Its also easier to link stuff off of uohs

[Saotome Kaneda]

Donkus - don't forget to list Sean's Target Combo changes to cMP -> HK in 2I, and the fact that his retarded links to Hyper Tornado are in NG as well(pretty much the same except for no target combo one, as that HP at the end is uncancellable, pushes them too far away, and recovers way too slow).

And to clarify, in both NG and 2I Sean can hold back or fwd and mash any button but lights and get 3x the meter for whiffing, and a pretty good amount more for hitting. I can't check right now to see if the crouching attacks get bonuses for db/df.

[Lord BBH]

If it's only like -3 or whatever he would get enough frame advantage to do a SA3 on low hit.

it's not. He never gets frame advantage on this move. Ever. Hit a Ken that's blocking low with f+HP, he can Shippu-Jinrai-Kyaku you back before you can block.

[Kusanagi02]

All i want to know is WHY oh WHY was Sean nerfed so much between NG/Second Impact and Third Strike.
I've seen some matches on youtube with people using him in NG and sucks how much of a difference he is between those two games.

[Donkus]

Nice work everyone. We need some Elena experts.
Is the Punch and Cross the hcb, f + P? Because he does have this in both NG and 2I.
Yeah. I hate doing inputs on a keyboard.

Saotome: Sean has that target combo in SI and TS so it wasn't listed as a change.

[shinblanka]

OK

Maybe someone else who actually played NG back in the day can confirm some of this. Were there multiple versions of NG? Maybe eventually this early version will get put in a rom format where we could play it on a emulator some day. Could be fun to screw around with.


I can confirm this because we played the same version sir. 1st of all Necro in NG was stupid good. I played with the M. storm because it was air defence, but the snake was his best super. It was like he wasn't there when you did the super. Unlike in the next 2 versions of sf3 when you can trade with the snake by hitting short kick.:lame: Also necro had his bread and butter chain combo that you could 2 in 1 off of in sf3ng and 2nd impact. I stop playing necro because of that BS.

standing short>standing strong punch>2 in 1 into the snake fang, spin for super stun action. Yea you could combo the snake fang in SF3NG and 2nd Impact. Also there's one change that always pissed me off about 3rd strike. They switched voices with Alex and Necro. The air drill had 3 hit's in sf3NG and it was super quick. It was better than dhasim's air drills IMO. It had to be in a game that had parries.

3S is by far the slowest gameplay wise of the trilogy. IMO sf3ng and 2nd impact played and felt more like a traditional streetfighter game than 3rd strike.:xeye: In SF3NG sean, ken, and ryu played like they were 5-10"-5-9". Their footies were kinda weak compared to the rest of the new cast. The main thing was the round house sweep. They didn't have the range of a 6-7" person like they gave them in sf2. These characters have always had great long sweeps, but they changed that in sf3ng.

It was corrected in sf3 2nd Impact and 3rd strike by added a forward motion/slight slid to the shoto's sweeps to give them that added range everyone was use too. Now they couldn't 2 in 1 after a blocked sweep like in sf2, but that was a small price to make for giving them the range back.:china:

For example:
As ryu is getting up from being floored in sf3ng oro could have his standing forward kick>2 in 1 into his special grab blocked and ryu couldn't round house sweep him after the blocked special grab in sf3ng.

The blocked special grab would push oro and ryu away from each other. The Tengu stone was the best super in the game. Unlike in 3rd strike when you summon little bricks and toy robots you summon big shit like stop signs, rakes, pick axe, and boulders that added mad range to oro great normal attacks. It seem like that super lasted for 20 seconds if I remember correctly. Oro and alex dealt the most stun damage per attack in sf3ng.

It seem like they wanted the people to start shying away from playing shoto's when they made sf3 because the whole parry system seem like it was made to prevent old school shoto fireball dragon punch strat's from working anymore. Adding a dash started the rush down tactic in streetfighter. SNK had this strat for years in kof.

I will say that command normal throws should never be in sf games. The jp+lk normal command throws are wack IMO. In 3rd strike I have been normal coomand thrown out of a spd, out of a super fireball, a round house sweep, and alot of other stupid shit that I should never been normal thrown out of has happen in sf3 3rd strike. A3 got it right IMO. When your thrown in A3 you was suppose to get thrown. Just my humble opinion

Everyone put mad stun on you and dealt mad damage to your foes in sf3ng and 2nd impact. It felt more like a sf game IMO. Kinda like ST with a dash, UOH, and parries. 2nd impact was a great game, but very cheap. That's the only reason 3rd strike was made imo, because 2nd impact was too cheap to be the last true streetfighter game released. It was the super turbo of the series IMO. Everyone was good in that game.

It's funny how in 3S some supers have invincible frames and some don't. Back in sf3ng when you did a super everyone had invincible frames. Actualy it seem like the super freeze time or sucks you into the chi world so your move is invincible. In sf3ng Oro's (yagau dama) green booger super froze time untill he finish pulling the booger out of his nose. It moved faster also making unblockable set up's harder to do in matches. In 3S you can see him do the super dash up and hit him before the super comes out.:lame: They took the super freeze/pause away in 3S for most of the characters that use to have it.

There's more shit I could blab about, but I need a drink. Good topic.

Just my 0.02:cool::china:

[FlyMike]

Alex had Necro's voice and vice-versa? Ewww.

[Middlekick]

Some random combos and stuff, taken from Akablo's page (http://akablo.noob.jp/index.html).

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ELQISG9S

Does anyone have information about the supposed NG Ryu Hurricane Kick infinite?

[Mixah]

nice thread. :tup:


question:

I'm using the Nebula emulator, and I was wonderign..

what is SF3:3S (Alt)? Is that the DC version with no unblockables?

same with Jojo (although it's off topic), but there's a Jojo's (Alt)

what are these games?

[Lord BBH]

what is SF3:3S (Alt)? Is that the DC version with no unblockables?

The Alt version is a romset dated 990608, which is later than the 990512 revision that is the "main" romset. There are no unblockables, and the Ken vs. Makoto neutral throw bug doesn't reset the game (or in the case of ElSemi's emulator, crash it entirely). Yang still has "Magnetic Storm" on the 2P side though. I'm not sure what else is different.

Don't know anything about the alternate Jojo romset (and that's something for another topic anyway)

[Mixah]

what's the ken makoto bug and the magnetic storm?

[Darkshine]

Oh, well, the Magnetic Storm thing is just a grpahical glitch. Instead of having whatever his SA2 is on his selection screen, it lists Magnetic Storm instead. When I first saw that over at the local arcade on the 3S machine, I freaked out. :P

[Rojo]

Didn't Oro's jumping FP get toned down with each version? In NG it was pretty strong.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Saotome: Sean has that target combo in SI and TS so it wasn't listed as a change.

So you're doing new->old listings instead of old->new?



IIRC Sean didn't have cHP->f+HP in 2I. =/ Someone check for me.


Dudley inf rumored to work on Elena as well in NG.


Yun/Yang - Air Target combo is different in NG (jLP->LK, 3 hits, knocks down)

[Lord BBH]

what's the ken makoto bug and the magnetic storm?

If you kill Makoto with Ken's neutral throw (the knee bash), the game resets. Also seen a video on youtube where Makoto's sprite actually hangs in the air for a few seconds before dropping to the ground, but I don't know which version that's done on.

On the 2P side, Yang has "Magnetic Storm" listed as one of his supers instead of Tenshin-Senkyutai. Selecing Magnetic Storm will of course give him Tenshin-Senkyutai instead.

Yun/Yang - Air Target combo is different in NG (jLP->LK, 3 hits, knocks down)

Does it knock down? I can't get the third hit to connect on a standing opponent, does it only work on Gill or something?

Also worth pointing out that Yun/Yang's NG air chain does block damage on the second (and third?) hit, which is pretty wacky :looney:

[felineki]

what's the ken makoto bug and the magnetic storm?I don't know if this is the bug being referred to or not, but I remember seeing a video where screwy stuff happens when Ken K.O.s Makoto with the knee bash grab (is that his neutral thorw? can't remember...). She kinda freezes and hangs in midair.

[Azagtoth]

IIRC Sean didn't have cHP->f+HP in 2I. =/ Someone check for me.

Just checked. He does have it in 2I.

EDIT: Ignore, I'm thinking of st.HP ->f.HP.

[DevilJin 01]

Necro's HP and HK attacks only extended about half way and had better start up/recovery.

Ibuki didn't have her Chun Li like c.MK in the older games. Her c.MK was her df+MK command slide. Her 3S s.MK in the older games was only useable upclose. Far away her s.MK was the same as her b+MK in 3S. Her c.MP was much quicker and could easily confirm into anything. Looked like Alex's c.MP but had the confirmability of Ken's 3S c.MP. Ibuki didn't have her command maneuvers like dp+P or qcf+K. Ibuki had a lot more chains obviously in the older games including one that comboed off a low attack (c.LK, c.MP). Which was basically a godlike confirm string. Just string both hits and if it connects you get free super. If Ken could do that he would be so broke. Short x 3 already gives you enough time to confirm with him.

Urien's EX fireball was like 2 regular fireballs put together and circled around each other. His f+MP was more like an arcing punch towards the air. Like he's trying to serve a volleyball. He says something during it I believe but I forgot what it is now. Temporal Thunder does almost no stun at all in 2I (like mentioned in the first post). Unlike 3S where it does like 30 to 40 percent stun on an average character. On Akuma or Remy it's more than half. Urien's "destroy" dive kick special was terrible in 2I. Doesn't even knock down (also mentioned earlier).

Just a random note about Alex. He actually does have his f+MP normal in the older games (both games). s.HK started up a bit quicker in NG also. s.HP seemed slighly faster as well. Maybe it's just the game speed though.

[EndLeSS8]

Ryu's LK Hurricane in 2I spun longer. In 3S it is more like a "hop hurricane" so it is more useful.

Yang was faster in 2I. I'm not sure about Yun.
Yun's sweep (Dwn HK) changed in 3S. In 2I and NG, it looked like Yang's

Urien's Dwn HP launcher in 2I counted as less juggles, so he could juggle with that longer in 2I, however, his tackle comboes don't work as well as 3S (I tried doing MP Sphere, Tackle, EX Tackle, Tackle, and I can't do it)

Voices changed (For the better IMO) in 3S

[Saotome Kaneda]

Does it knock down? I can't get the third hit to connect on a standing opponent, does it only work on Gill or something?

Also worth pointing out that Yun/Yang's NG air chain does block damage on the second (and third?) hit, which is pretty wacky :looney:

The 3rd hit only connects on air to air/juggle hits(sMK). I think I got both kicks to work on Gill before, gotta be hella early. I'm pretty sure that the 3rd would do block damage if the 2nd did, since it's the animation of the last 2 kicks in Sourai Rengeki. I think's that's why it happens in the first place. =/

While we're on this topic


Yun/Yang shit

NG
- No far MK(always launcher kick)
- cLP-MP-HP-b+HP Target Combo
- The b+HP in that does block damage?(I remember it doing so)
- jLP-LK 3hit Air Target Combo(3rd hit takes too long to animate for air-ground combos)
- Genei Jin was stupid long for what it was back then
- But Tenshin Senkyutai was infinitely better for footsies/stun

2I
Yun
- Gained cLP-LK-MP Target Combo
- lol hop HP shoulder
- lost rolling Senkyutai
- can't link LP into MP-HP-b+HP Target Combo
- Worst voice ever for winposes

Yang
- yay slashes(different animation for them tho, last hit is an elbow?)
- can link Tenshin Senkyutai off LK-MK-HK Target Combo
- Most pointless Target Combo(dLK-dMK-dHK, sweep doesn't combo)

[Mixah]

Thanks for the info guys :)

[ParryAll]

OK, I just got off the phone with one of my friends where we discussed this. Back when SF3 first came out, a couple of arcades in the Atlanta area got it really fast. What I've come to the conclusion is that there were early versions of SF3:NG and then later updated versions were released, similar to what happened with 3S(verA/verB).

The reason why I think this is because I remember Necro having different properties than the NG that I played on the emulator the other day. The first thing I remember being different is his Slam Dance super. On the emulator, Necro just reaches out and grabs for his opponent when you do the Slam Dance. The machines I played on though, he didn't do this. Necro jumped at you before grabbing. Think of it exactly like Sodom's SPD, he hopped.

It was so much better in this "early" version of SF3. It had alot more range and would beat out other grab supers(hyperbomb) because he was considered to be in the air when you did this super.

The next thing that I noticed that was different was the Electric Snake super. In the "early" version of SF3, this super had a screwed up hitbox, meaning it was really really hard to hit Necro during this super. It was perfect anti-air, anti-wake up, anti-poke. Bascially it was anti-everything. It had alot of frames of invincibility, you could only hit Necro when he was recovering from it. I remember using it to beat every super in the game, even stuff like if someone tried to chip me on wake up with a Shinryuken. I would wake up with a Electric Snake and it was like Necro wasn't even there. I would hit Ken out of the Shinryuken clean. After playing around with Necro in this emulator, I found that the Electric Snake doesn't have any invincibility on startup and is essentially like his 3S version.

I was talking with my friend on the phone about this and he remembers that Ken/Ryu's Shoryuken had horrible priority and it was really easy to jump kick them out of it. I remember being able to do this too.

I guess I had no idea that all along I was playing on this wierd version of SF3. I was always arguing that Necro was top tier in NG, saying his Electric Snake super was way better than the Magnetic Storm. Everyone always used Magnetic Storm back in the day cause you could store 2 of them. I aways argued that Electric Snake just did a little bit less damage, and way more stun. It still had better invincibility than the Magnetic Storm. When SF3: Double Impact came out on DC, I argued that it was a crappy translation cause Necro's supers weren't the same as NG.

Maybe someone else who actually played NG back in the day can confirm some of this. Were there multiple versions of NG? Maybe eventually this early version will get put in a rom format where we could play it on a emulator some day. Could be fun to screw around with.

Very possible you were playing a location test version. OG Cali players should weigh in because they always got to do location tests. I remember reading about it in old ass Gamefans.

[Superking]

same with Jojo (although it's off topic), but there's a Jojo's (Alt)



Both Dreamcast Jojos are more or less identical to the original CPS3 games. The Dreamcast games are even used in Japanese ranbats for the game.

[Donkus]

Saotome, basically what I'm doing is looking at a character and saying "What is the difference between this person and how they are in TS?" I'm not comparing NG to SI.

Ibuki had a lot more chains obviously in the older games including one that comboed off a low attack (c.LK, c.MP). Which was basically a godlike confirm string.

I remember hearing about this from an Ibuki player. They said one of her crouching punches was far superior to the one in TS and she could spam it with little risk and get a free super upon hit.

EndLeSS8: The tackle combos aren't working probably because the spheres don't stick them in the air long enough. I had this problem the last time I played this game in a now-extinct arcade about a year ago.

NG Ryu Hurricane Infinite
OK, I'm getting this from gamefaqs, and the sources disagree on the methods.

method1) Target in the corner, Ryu almost at opposite corner. Hit the target as late as possible with HK Hurricane, then juggle with LK or possibly LP, cancel into LK Hurricane, juggle with LK, cancel into LK Hurricane...

method2) Target in corner, hit as late as possible with LK Hurricane, juggle with LK, repeat

I can't get either to work. I am using a keyboard but the lack of hits from LK hurricane makes me think this might be from the elusive location test. Someone with a good controller should try to confirm this.

[gilley]

I noticed the list says necro has an infinte on dudley in NG. Anyone happen to know what this is?

I know one infinte for necro that works really good on dudley, but you can do it on other characters too. Maybe that's what people are talking about. It's easy....

strong spin, b+strong, repeat :rofl:

He had another one that was a corner juggle using the jab spin attack.

He also had one that worked only on elena. It's easy....

s.strong, fierce spin, repeat :rofl:

For some reason elena stays turned around longer than everyone else from the fierce spin. I noticed alex had an infinite on elena to using the flash chop to turn her around.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Saotome, basically what I'm doing is looking at a character and saying "What is the difference between this person and how they are in TS?" I'm not comparing NG to SI.
k
For some reason elena stays turned around longer than everyone else from the fierce spin. I noticed alex had an infinite on elena to using the flash chop to turn her around.

Elena in NG was pretty much combo bait if your char had a spin stun or goofy ground stun(Dudley MK-HK inf supposedly works on her too). For some reason I think her hitbox while in hit stun was wider than normal, which made some combos easier(or harder) on her.

[Hyperhal]

I've read through this thread already, so I know it's not in here, but:

Could someone tell me how I can tell the difference between 3S ver.a and ver.b? Like what do I look for when trying to find out which version it is.

[Saotome Kaneda]

I've read through this thread already, so I know it's not in here, but:

Could someone tell me how I can tell the difference between 3S ver.a and ver.b? Like what do I look for when trying to find out which version it is.
I might be wrong but the easiest way should be to see if Yang still has Magnetic Storm. =p

[Hyperhal]

Okay so he does infact have magnetic storm, so I guess that means it's version A and "We're good to go."

Thanks black man.

[Henaki]

I've read through this thread already, so I know it's not in here, but:

Could someone tell me how I can tell the difference between 3S ver.a and ver.b? Like what do I look for when trying to find out which version it is.

Unblockables don't work in ver. B