Dual Blades Thread Redux [Archive]

white shadow

07-18-2007, 01:07 PM

Hi everyone,

Believe or not I'm the programmer and the designer of this forgotten fighter :) We were 3 people actually.

It really surprised me to see some people still interested in it. It's been 5 years...

I just wanted to say the game would have an european release but it never saw the daylight since me and my friends left the company. It would have some little additional features like:

* Power Cancels (Aka Guilty Gear FRCs)
* Free Cancels (This was already in the game but it never named: it's canceling any move into a special or power move without connecting it, but requires some power meter. So it can be used for fakes!)
* Zombie Characters (Aka Guilty Gear Ex Chars) These characters had extra/changed moves and new move properties.
* Some move and balance fixed, I don't remember it's been too much time :)
* "Last Chance" feature: When your health falls below zero (but not too much) your character doesn't KO but has a last chance to fight with 0 health (no healing applies since this point)
* Bonus game system changed to point system. Different block positions give diferent point bonuses.

I had to play the game again to check these:) These are all I can remember.

Well, I had put my heart into this game, but since it lacked good sprites, animation and speedy gameplay, it was a failure...

I just wanted to flush the things inside me, thanks for reading :)

Last Chance seems kinda eh... what were the specifics? Free Cancel mode was already introduced, and Zombie Characters is just another name for EX characters imo.

Bonus point system seems intriguing though, care to elaborate on that please?:pleased: Did you introduce block stun in the Euro version? That would've made the game do a complete 180!!:rofl:

I uncovered a myriad of glitches and combos for the US version, would you care to divulge if some of these were "accidents" or intentional easter eggs for your own amusement.

Case in point:

Alperen's Soul/Blade mode system. I realized that when you switched modes the scaling wore off, not only that but the juggle state when doing the move remained the same even when the foe was OTG.

Even cooler was that D.BS (Alperen's super fast broken sword slash that hits low but attacks high for some insane reason) in the corner could be chained (very strict timing) many times but *uncombo* and not scale even though it registers as a hit.

So Alperen's sickenly powerful combo I created was:

*Soul Mode* J.BS, DDD BS, BF SL, DDD BS, *switch to Weapon Mode* Soul Spear, *wait for opponent to get up* D.BS xN, finishing off with Weapon Combo 3. This did IMMENSE damage, nearing 100%.

Then there's also the-

-Duke infinite

-EX Nagasapa infinite

-Efe infinite (my best character :cool:)

-Kanae infinite (one of the best female fighters I've ever played, props for who on your team designed her :tup:)

-and several other glitches, most notably*standing up* frame when a character falls allowing them to be ground comboed, Kanae's BnB used this principle from her FB SL Projectile juggle.

BTW, Slasher, I must congratulate you and your cohorts for making a very fun game.:tup: Are you of Turkish descent, because it seems like the company was based there?

P.S., Brandon reaaaaally sucks:rofl:

Hanzo_Hasashi

07-18-2007, 01:49 PM

Yes! BTW do you want me to do the Character Strategies and Combos again? Why did that thread have to be deleted?

Plz white shadow if thats not much to ask. Also where do you have them uploaded?

and several other glitches, most notably*standing up* frame when a character falls allowing them to be ground comboed, Kanae's BnB used this principle from her FB SL Projectile juggle.

Ala UMK3 relaunchers! lol

WS why dont you make a combovid out of it??

white shadow

07-18-2007, 07:02 PM

Plz white shadow if thats not much to ask. Also where do you have them uploaded?

ARRGH! I just posted a long movelist thingie on kanae and my windo froze ^$&@#&*$@!(*&!@ :mad::sad: This sucks my original thread was deleted and had all my stuff too but I'll surely start over now that there's interest. For my sanity I'll just stick to listing the combos tho.

Ala UMK3 relaunchers! lol

WS why dont you make a combovid out of it??

lol If only I knew how to do that, I have no skill inediting or anything like that. Sowwy. :razzy:

Hayama Akito

07-18-2007, 10:05 PM

white shadow

07-18-2007, 10:42 PM

Hey, never heard of this game... it is really to hard to find it now? (original, of course)

I will try to play it, seems at least fun, Nintendo handhelds are really crying for good fighting games, so is nice to know about this.

Well the problem is that it is a GBA fighting game which had limited release in North America. :sad:

white shadow

07-19-2007, 03:42 PM

KANAE

Kanae is a combofiend, plain and simple. She is one of the most enjoyable characters to play and is one of the top tiers in Dual Blades. She has many combos and for expert players even her B&B does a fantastic 49% of damage! Combined with her speed, priority, and excellent special/super moves she is a force to be reckoned with!

KEY:

B button = BS

A button = SL

L button = K

R button = PW

SL+PW = Overhead

-----------------------------------------------------------

Beginner Combos:

J.BS, S.BS, FB+SL, DF+BS (7 hits 45% Damage)

-Your basic bread and butter. Solid damage.

J.BS, *air* DF+BS, BF+BS. (5 hits, 37% Damage)

-An alternate B&B. Less damage but easier to connect midscreen than the other combo.

S.SL (2 hits), FB+SL, DF+BS (6 Hits 19% Damage)

-Standard ground combo. Highly recommended because Magic (FB+SL) is a pretty safe move to cancel into if your opponent blocks due to the lack of block stun.

C.BS (2 hits), FB+SL, DF+BS (7 hits 28% Damage)

-More meatier version of the above combo. Good for damaging an opponent landing from an aerial special move or a close range attack.

Advanced Combos:

J.BS, S.BS, FB+SL, *wait right before opponent descends* S.BS *OTG!*, FB+SL, DF+BS (9 hits 49% Damage!)

-One of the most satisfying combos the game has to offer. Tons of damage. But let me go into detail on the physics of this combo.

*When a move or throw puts an opponent into a juggle state there is a very small window before the opponent collapses where the sprite is standing. During this small period of time certain moves can "catch" the opponent right before the collapse and continue a ground combo string.*

The reason why this is considered an advanced combo is not only due to the strict timing but it also requires you to remember the falling rates of each individual character in the game. Here's a brief list to help you:

Normal Fall Speed: Duke, Brandon, Nagasapa, Jaman

Medium Fall Speed: Shin, Rungard, Kanae

Fast Fall Speed: Efe, Alperen

This isn't the only character that can utilize this glitch in the engine but Kanae definitely makes the best use since her quick normals can take excellent advantage. In fact she makes such good use of this that she even has an infinite! (although it is insanely hard to do.)

J.BS, S.BS, FB+SL, *wait right before opponent descends* S.BS *OTG!*, FB+SL, DF+K (7 hits 47% damage)

-This is a cool combo which can set up a lot of resets and cornertraps. Not only that but last ditch extended recovery combos can be done as well.

Super Combos:

Note: I am not going to include all the possible links because most are common sense, but I will include the most damaging. Remember, the less hits usually means more overall damage.

Basic: J.BS, S.BS, Slash Dance, DF+BS (10 hits 55% Damage)

-Slash Dance is the best out of the low bar supers. Fast and easy to combo into and from.

Advanced: J.BS, S.BS, FB+SL, *wait* Slash Dance, FB+SL, DF+BS (11 hits 58% Damage)

-Doing the OTG for this super is much easier than with your normals because of the faster startup. Although it only does 3% more damage I think it is worth it considering that it takes little practice to master.

Basic: J.BS, S.BS, Samurai Slicer, J.BS, S.BS, DF+BS (25 hits 63% Damage)

-This combo can be extended to ridiculous levels which I will cover in my later post but this is the most basic way to maximize damage without getting too fancy. Insane damage, I love this super.

Advanced: J.BS, S.BS, Samurai Slicer *wait until near end* J.BS, FB+SL, S.BS, FB+SL, S.BS, FB+SL, DF+BS (25+ Variable hits, 64%+ Damage)

-Almost not worth it. In fact I rarely attempt it knowing that I might not finish it, the main reason why I mention it is because even if you mess up you still do tons of damage regardless. And if you complete it you get a supreme sense of satisfaction.:cool: Keep in mind (...J.BS, FB+SL ...) isn't a cancel so it doesn't count as using your cancel counter.

Basic: J.BS, S.BS, FB+SL, Dragon Tail (25 hits 55% Damage)

-Blah blah blah... Not a recommended super to use. Apart from the decent AA properties it has it doesn't really do anything of worth and isn't as versatile as Slash Dance.

Advanced: Nothing of use...

Basic: J.BS, S.BS, Sudden Death (12 hits 64% Damage)

-Immense damage for such a simple combo. Trust me extending this combo is a bad idea because it scales HORRIBLY. Please don't do it.

J.BS, S.BS, FB+SL, Sudden Death *hold up* (4 hits 60% Damage)

-The Anti-Air version. Just a random tidbit of info. The AA version of Sudden Death cannot be parried because of the cinematic effect of the super which centers Kanae automatically. This doesn't mean anything when already comboed though.

Well that does it for the main combo section. If this gets bumped I will continue to list Kanae's:

-Strategies/Tactics and Mindgames

-Miscellaneous combos and Techniques

-In depth coverage of her normals/special/supers

-As well as her EX mode.

Toodles!

MiyagiShin X

07-20-2007, 07:07 AM

white shadow

07-20-2007, 01:21 PM

Im curious just cause i wanna say i played it but are their still copies of this and how much is it worth/ run for.

I like these kinda things, plus it looks like a deep fighting game just looks bad and it was on the advance lol. I cant put it down till i play it.

It is.

Keep in mind that battle engine isn't what you would call "refined" but it is unique and fun.

Hanzo_Hasashi

07-20-2007, 03:00 PM

Keep in mind that battle engine isn't what you would call "refined" but it is unique and fun.

^^ Co sign! i would like to read again the Nagasapa guide if its not a bother White!

white shadow

07-21-2007, 08:58 PM

^^ Co sign! i would like to read again the Nagasapa guide if its not a bother White!

Will do. I will start her guide when I'm finished with Kanae's strats and some general battle strategy info.

white shadow

07-30-2007, 10:56 AM

GENERAL STRATEGY! v.1.0.

This is the zone where I explain some of the "advanced" basics (what a oxymoron :looney:) of the game:

The Knockdown Cancel Effect-

In Dual Blades there is an interesting effect that occurs when you an opponent in midair. If hit by a normal move they will simply land automatically on their feet. However, if you cancel your normal immediately after an aerial hit the properties of the special/super move will transfer to the opponent's sprite.

Uses- It can set up and buy some time, like all knockdowns should. Not only that but it prevents them from doing a quick throw when near you. This leads to other general strategies such as Cornerdashing and Knockdown Taunting.

The Knockdown Taunt-

This is probably one of the things that few fighters have and Dual Blades is probably the best user of this tactic. Immediately after a knockdown you do a taunt, and that's pretty much it.

Uses- Taunts in Dual Blades build a significant amount of meter and can be the decisive means of winning by a getting a super bar at the last minute of battle.

Warning! Some characters like Efe and Alperen get up very quickly and can punish you, especially if your taunt is long. A few characters like Jaman and Kanae can use their quick dash supers and hit you from far away- distances normally not reachable by most characters.

Not only that but if you do a knockdown and the character falls within proximity to you should never risk a taunt because any character can get up throw you or counter you with a quick special or super.

Don't forget that some special moves have longer ending animations which equalize the knockdown time of your opponents as well!

The Cornerdash-

Simply put, it is dashing an opponent in the corner when a knockdown occurs.

Uses- Like any other fighting game the corner is bad place to be as many highly damaging combos normally unavailable to you are present; let's not forget the cornertraps.

Note- Jaman's dash cannot do this although he can crossup. (not recommended)

The Throw Principle-

Unlike most current fighters Dual Blades doesn't have a starting throw animation, tech hits, or even block stun. This leads to some interesting throw games not seen since the days of Super Turbo.

Uses-

Starter Throw: A fun little game in itself. This occurs in the beginning of a match when 2 characters move close to each other and mash --> BS to activate their throw the first. In Dual Blades every intrinsic character throw has the same priority (not the same effect/damage though) so the person who wins the throwing war is usually the person who was fast enough to activate it within the first few milliseconds.

Advantages- Obviously there is the quick damage advantage but depending on the character it can set up a free taunt and/ or cornerdash.

*Duke players should practice Starter Throwing because it his throw when DF+ BS'd 4 times does amazing damage. An opponent facing Duke will instantly be intimidated as such prospective damage and either back away in the beginning or face you and fail due to being psyched out!:devil:

Counter Throw: This is a VERY unique part of playing Dual Blades. It involves the exploitation of the lack of block stun in the game. When a character in does a special move or attacks with normal too deep (especially jump ins) all you have to do is throw them to get them off your back.

Throws in Dual Blades have no startup whatsoever so even in the middle of multi-hitting attacks such as Kanae's BF+BS/SL she can be thrown in the middle of her attack.

Wake Up Throw: My favorite use of throwing in this game. It utilizes the instantaneous startup of the throw similar to the way wakeup DP moves use their quick startup and/or invincibility to hit and opponent attempt to crowd them.

When an opponent hits you in the air with a non-knockdown move or normal and you land directly near them you can instantly throw them as soon as you land. There is really nothing they can do in that situation as the priority will beat darn near anything they attempt before or after you land.

If they knock you down by a combo and the ending of their last attack takes awhile to recover they are also just as susceptible to Wakeup Throwing. Not even the cheating computer can beat a Wakeup Throw from you and will humorously backdash away if they are in your vicinty after they knock you down.

Parry Throw: An often risky but highly rewarding maneuver. It involves parrying the hit of a multi-hitting or deep hit and throwing immediately afterwards before the the second stage of the attack hits. It requires a lot of timing to do but takes off the pressure, esp. if you're stuck in the corner. (Duke players especially need to use this for aformentioned reasons.)

Depending on the opponent there might be a high cost if you mess up so be wary!

Sub-strategy:

- Sometimes a cunning opponent will do a move with tons of recovery time just you bait a counter-super or your own risky attack only to use *Recovery* and counter your counter. However Counter Throwing will stop such methods regardless of if they Recovered or not because it will hit them even if they block.

- Experienced players will also backdash or jump away to get away from you after they knock you down to prevent a Wake Up Throw (like the computer) but you can surprise them with a wake up super (depending on the character) and catch them in mid-air or recovering from their dash. (Jaman/Kanae are exceptional at this)

- Parry Throws can be countered if you bait the move or attack and cancel immediately into a super. This will throw their timing off they will get hit.

*Kanae's Final Punishment will REALLY pack a wallop if used in such a scenario albiet risky because they could still throw you.

And that's pretty much it for now, if more tactics pop into the ol' noggin I'll make a revision.:wink:

Hanzo_Hasashi

07-30-2007, 11:07 AM

Oh good news White! I managed to record some combos using VGBA and they look great!

Whenever I got the time I will rec all of the posted combos and sent them to you for your aproval!

white shadow

07-30-2007, 11:32 AM

Oh good news White! I managed to record some combos using VGBA and they look great!

Whenever I got the time I will rec all of the posted combos and sent them to you for your aproval!

Sure, but throw what format?

BTW what do you think of the guide so far? Found anything useful?:pleased:

Hanzo_Hasashi

07-30-2007, 11:44 AM

Maybe an AVi or wmv just for you to test it and review it.

yes, the guides are amazing! BTW Kanae inf FB+SL, *wait right before opponent descends* S.BS *OTG!*, Repeat?

I ask this cause I managed to do like 4 repts of it. (hard BTW)

white shadow

07-30-2007, 09:46 PM

BTW Kanae inf FB+SL, *wait right before opponent descends* S.BS *OTG!*, Repeat?

I ask this cause I managed to do like 4 repts of it. (hard BTW)
Nope actually that would only be an infinite during Free Cancel mode.

Ha ha actually I discovered 2 infinites but just to be a jerk I'll show you the insanely hard one:

J.BS, FB+SL...

Now this is the hard part, you have to quickly jump slightly backwards then do the aerial DF+SL move in a way that causes the *OTG* to occur making your opponent's sprite stand up. After that immediately, then IMMEDIATELY do another FB+SL to repeat the process.

THIS IS @#$%&! HARD!!!1!!!11!!!!!!:annoy::mad:

This is necessary to do because Kanae has a limited amount cancels (unless in Free Cancel mode of course) but the combo is directly from the OTG effect and thus doesn't count as cancel from a normal.

I applaud anyone who can do more than 2 reps before passing out and dying in a pool of their own tears of sadness.

Hanzo_Hasashi

07-31-2007, 06:57 AM

Sounds hard! Do you complish to get in on an emulator on a real GBA?

white shadow

07-31-2007, 06:04 PM

Sounds hard! Do you complish to get in on an emulator on a real GBA?

Real GBA, the problem i the timing is so precise that you can only know if you did it correctly only after you've finished it. (or messed up)

INCIDENT

08-01-2007, 06:09 PM

Im curious just cause i wanna say i played it but are their still copies of this and how much is it worth/ run for.

I like these kinda things, plus it looks like a deep fighting game just looks bad and it was on the advance lol. I cant put it down till i play it.
I just bought this game last week at a Gamestop for $4.99. It's not the best, but definitely a great attempt. I can play it fine on the DS Lite pad.

white shadow

08-01-2007, 07:45 PM

I just bought this game last week at a Gamestop for $4.99. It's not the best, but definitely a great attempt. I can play it fine on the DS Lite pad.

lol Price drop. I bought it for 8 bucks at Gamestop 4 years ago.

The controls are perfect for handhelds because it eliminates that QCF/ FD, DF/ 360 crap and makes motions more practical with DF, noncharging BF, and FB etc...

INCIDENT

08-03-2007, 05:52 PM

lol Price drop. I bought it for 8 bucks at Gamestop 4 years ago.
That and I'm an employee. :tup:

The controls are perfect for handhelds because it eliminates that QCF/ FD, DF/ 360 crap and makes motions more practical with DF, noncharging BF, and FB etc...
Yeah, I noticed they kept most of the motions simple for all the command specials, although Alparen's supers have b, d, f or d, d, f and I think Jaman has some f, b, d motions but even then, using them in combos and such are easy. I'm suspecting the developer knew that the D-pad on a GBA is the best for more complex motions and also simplifying the existing ones that we've all grown up with for the purposes of being played on said GBA pad. They knew what they were doing. I wonder since I have a Game Boy Player on my GC, if I tried a stick for a GC and how that would work.

white shadow

08-04-2007, 04:36 AM

Yeah, I noticed they kept most of the motions simple for all the command specials, although Alparen's supers have b, d, f or d, d, f and I think Jaman has some f, b, d motions but even then, using them in combos and such are easy. I'm suspecting the developer knew that the D-pad on a GBA is the best for more complex motions and also simplifying the existing ones that we've all grown up with for the purposes of being played on said GBA pad. They knew what they were doing. I wonder since I have a Game Boy Player on my GC, if I tried a stick for a GC and how that would work.

Yeah those motions aren't necessarily harder, just different. If notice carefully most of the moves with longer motions also so more damage or have longer duration.

INCIDENT

08-04-2007, 04:44 PM

Yeah those motions aren't necessarily harder, just different. If notice carefully most of the moves with longer motions also so more damage or have longer duration.
I noticed that. Jaman's spin moves are a good example of this.

SlasherX

08-05-2007, 11:25 AM

Hmm, there are some question!! :)

Last Chance seems kinda eh... what were the specifics?
It happens everytime, just don't get KOed with a strong blow.

Free Cancel mode was already introduced, and Zombie Characters is just another name for EX characters imo.
I assume you played the US version. Free Cancels didn't have a power energy cost that in US version. And Zombie chars have some diferences with the US version's.

Bonus point system seems intriguing though, care to elaborate on that please?:pleased: It doesn't count the blocks. Hitting a monster gives +1, blocking on the ground gives +2, blocking in the air or the vertically falling monster give +3, air blocking vertical monster gives +4 :)

Did you introduce block stun in the Euro version? That would've made the game do a complete 180!!:rofl:
There is block stun in the game. But it was too short in the US version. I did this intentionally to make the players use Recovery feature and make the game more competetive since most moves have lots of recovery frames at the end. I'm not sure but I may have increased the block stun in the Euro version, since I had also ended up thinking it's too short :)[/QUOTE]

I uncovered a myriad of glitches and combos for the US version, would you care to divulge if some of these were "accidents" or intentional easter eggs for your own amusement.

Case in point:

Alperen's Soul/Blade mode system. I realized that when you switched modes the scaling wore off, not only that but the juggle state when doing the move remained the same even when the foe was OTG.

Even cooler was that D.BS (Alperen's super fast broken sword slash that hits low but attacks high for some insane reason) in the corner could be chained (very strict timing) many times but *uncombo* and not scale even though it registers as a hit.

So Alperen's sickenly powerful combo I created was:

*Soul Mode* J.BS, DDD BS, BF SL, DDD BS, *switch to Weapon Mode* Soul Spear, *wait for opponent to get up* D.BS xN, finishing off with Weapon Combo 3. This did IMMENSE damage, nearing 100%.

Yep, there were lots of things like that. I had fixed some of them, but don't remember what I fixed :)

-Kanae infinite (one of the best female fighters I've ever played, props for who on your team designed her :tup:)

I did :) She's my favourite too. Actually I tought her as the protogonist of the game. Why not a female one right? Actually this is her 2nd appearance with Brandon. I used to make my own fighting game called "Slashers: Revenge Wars" before Dual Blades. I had showed it to my employer and he said: "Why should we do this for GBA?" and Dual Blades born! She used to be more badass in that one :) Most people thought she was a man... Thanks to our new artist in Dual Blades, he made her Nakoruru-like :D

BTW, Slasher, I must congratulate you and your cohorts for making a very fun game.:tup: Are you of Turkish descent, because it seems like the company was based there?

Yep, I'm Turkish and the rest of the team!

P.S., Brandon reaaaaally sucks:rofl:
I think I've failed with him. I wanted to make him an annoying cunning character but he ended up being a weak one compared to rest of the cast.

I'll keep on answering :)
Just Shoot!

SlasherX

08-05-2007, 11:44 AM

Yeah those motions aren't necessarily harder, just different. If notice carefully most of the moves with longer motions also so more damage or have longer duration.

Your comments are perfectly accurate. That's what I intended while designing the controls. I'm glad you guys noticed :)

white shadow

08-06-2007, 06:08 AM

It happens everytime, just don't get KOed with a strong blow.

Actually that doesn't seem so bad now.

I assume you played the US version. Free Cancels didn't have a power energy cost that in US version. And Zombie chars have some differences with the US version's.

Yeah I've only played the US version where Free Cancel mode is a specialty for completing Survival.

It doesn't count the blocks. Hitting a monster gives +1, blocking on the ground gives +2, blocking in the air or the vertically falling monster give +3, air blocking vertical monster gives +4 :)

Ah I see, that seems much better. Was blocking easier or harder, or had the same timing? Because it was perfect in the first game IMO.

There is block stun in the game. But it was too short in the US version. I did this intentionally to make the players use Recovery feature and make the game more competitive since most moves have lots of recovery frames at the end. I'm not sure but I may have increased the block stun in the Euro version, since I had also ended up thinking it's too short :)

There was block stun in the US version? I didn't notice. :rofl: I've gotten so used to the game having no block stun I wonder if the game would be entirely different without it. R.I.P. European version.:sad:

Yep, there were lots of things like that. I had fixed some of them, but don't remember what I fixed :)

If by some miracle that there would be a Dual Blades 2 for the DS, I always thought a cool idea would be to make a prequel with Alperen before her was "consumed" by the Dual Blades. I think him having those same sword combos but instead was more balanced and less overpowering would make him a good protagonist.

Plus you could have younger Nagasapa maybe? :wink::rofl:

I did :) She's my favourite too. Actually I tought her as the protogonist of the game. Why not a female one right? Actually this is her 2nd appearance with Brandon. I used to make my own fighting game called "Slashers: Revenge Wars" before Dual Blades. I had showed it to my employer and he said: "Why should we do this for GBA?" and Dual Blades born! She used to be more badass in that one :) Most people thought she was a man... Thanks to our new artist in Dual Blades, he made her Nakoruru-like :D

lol Well your love of her shows. She has so many combo opportunities it's sickening. And as you can see by my thread even her basic combos do close to 50% and all her moves are useful. So yeah she's really powerful.

Yep, I'm Turkish and the rest of the team!

Oh so that's why Brandon sucked. ha ha just kidding.:wink:

BTW I saw that the female characters were unable to be cut in half and stuff. Was that because of cultural attitudes or not to cause negative attention? (marketing strategy?)

I think I've failed with him. I wanted to make him an annoying cunning character but he ended up being a weak one compared to rest of the cast.

After spending hours trying to find something unique to exploit with Brandon I have to say that you actually did a great job balancing him. HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING SPECIAL AT ALL!!! In my opinion you probably thought his Juggling Throw and Headbutt Super had a lot of potential but because of damage scaling it really doesn't help.

As far as I see this is what a developer tries to do, make characters fight the way they were intended, and Brandon does that. The problem is that limits him when other characters (Kanae, Efe, Duke, Nagasapa, Shin) get better.

Oh and his heavy attacks were slooooow as molasses, I could attack between them with ease. lol

One more thing, were kicks considered like a secondary jab? Because only a few characters had decent kicks and even fewer characters could cancel from them. It justs seems that kicks were just tacked on in the end. (no offense :razzy:)

SlasherX

08-06-2007, 03:11 PM

Yeah I've only played the US version where Free Cancel mode is a specialty for completing Survival.

No no, I'm not mentioning about the Crazy Mode. Free Cancel is the ability to cancel any normal move into special or power move without connecting it to the opponent. Unlike other fighting games you have to connect the hit to cancel it.

Ah I see, that seems much better. Was blocking easier or harder, or had the same timing? Because it was perfect in the first game IMO.

We had some complains during the beta testing of Japanese version about the threshold of performing a block. So It was decreased. It's harder in Jap and Euro versions.

If by some miracle that there would be a Dual Blades 2 for the DS, I always thought a cool idea would be to make a prequel with Alperen before her was "consumed" by the Dual Blades. I think him having those same sword combos but instead was more balanced and less overpowering would make him a good protagonist.

I think there is no hope for it. I'm working on a PC game project now and have no time or crew to make DB2. I had something about the story of DB2 in my mind of course :) But it was not prequel but a sequel with a whole new diferent cast. Except Kanae and Brandon...Kanae would be the key character not the protoganist and Brandon would be the fun character of the game :)

lol Well your love of her shows. She has so many combo opportunities it's sickening. And as you can see by my thread even her basic combos do close to 50% and all her moves are useful. So yeah she's really powerful.

I probably toned down her in Euro version :) I thought the need for balance is more important than my love to her :P

Oh so that's why Brandon sucked. ha ha just kidding.:wink:

We couldn't come up with a cool American character sorry. We were thinking to show some new designs. And I think we did... No other fighting game has a Ottoman Warrior (It's not arabic..phew) nor a Khazakian Old Woman Sorceress:)

BTW I saw that the female characters were unable to be cut in half and stuff. Was that because of cultural attitudes or not to cause negative attention? (marketing strategy?)

Yes, it was considered rude between our cast. I also think the idea of showing such death scenes was a mistake. Our boss encourged me to do that and I feel bad now. But deaths removed in Euro version :) But they can be enabled with a cheat of course :D

After spending hours trying to find something unique to exploit with Brandon I have to say that you actually did a great job balancing him. HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING SPECIAL AT ALL!!! In my opinion you probably thought his Juggling Throw and Headbutt Super had a lot of potential but because of damage scaling it really doesn't help.

As far as I see this is what a developer tries to do, make characters fight the way they were intended, and Brandon does that. The problem is that limits him when other characters (Kanae, Efe, Duke, Nagasapa, Shin) get better.

Oh and his heavy attacks were slooooow as molasses, I could attack between them with ease. lol

I may have changed him a bit in Euro version. But know remember actually.

One more thing, were kicks considered like a secondary jab? Because only a few characters had decent kicks and even fewer characters could cancel from them. It justs seems that kicks were just tacked on in the end. (no offense :razzy:)
Yeah kinda..They can be considered as jabs. I had spent some time on them in the Euro version. But as I said everytime... I don't remember :D

Keep on shooting,
I'll be around!

rogueyoshi

08-06-2007, 03:18 PM

lol free cancel is from kof ya know. its called whiff cancel there...

white shadow

08-06-2007, 06:32 PM

No no, I'm not mentioning about the Crazy Mode. Free Cancel is the ability to cancel any normal move into special or power move without connecting it to the opponent. Unlike other fighting games you have to connect the hit to cancel it.

I know what Free Cancels are, I just forgot how you acquired them.

We had some complains during the beta testing of Japanese version about the threshold of performing a block. So It was decreased. It's harder in Jap and Euro versions.

I see. The only time it bothered me was when I attempted to jump over a projectile, but even then it was rare.

I think there is no hope for it. I'm working on a PC game project now and have no time or crew to make DB2. I had something about the story of DB2 in my mind of course :) But it was not prequel but a sequel with a whole new diferent cast. Except Kanae and Brandon...Kanae would be the key character not the protoganist and Brandon would be the fun character of the game :)

Wow that would've been so cool... oh well.

We couldn't come up with a cool American character sorry. We were thinking to show some new designs. And I think we did... No other fighting game has a Ottoman Warrior (It's not arabic..phew) nor a Khazakian Old Woman Sorceress:)

Those were some of the reasons why I liked the game. The fact that the boss Alperen wanted to die was also a nice twist on the generic fighting game story.

Yes, it was considered rude between our cast. I also think the idea of showing such death scenes was a mistake. Our boss encouraged me to do that and I feel bad now. But deaths removed in Euro version :) But they can be enabled with a cheat of course :D

I thought death scenes were humorous. The are pretty rewarding in a close match as well. Did your boss request blood too?
I may have changed him a bit in Euro version. But know remember actually.

Yeah kinda..They can be considered as jabs. I had spent some time on them in the Euro version. But as I said everytime... I don't remember :D

*sigh* The unreleased Euro version.

Lastly, was there any change in the throwing properties of the Euro version? Or did it still retain those instantaneous reactions whenever close? I always though tech hits was the only thing missing in the game.

INCIDENT

08-06-2007, 07:17 PM

I think I've failed with him. I wanted to make him an annoying cunning character but he ended up being a weak one compared to rest of the cast.
To me, Brandon looked like the Ryu-ish character of the game, given his moveset and how he turned out. To be more exact, he feels more like Last Blade 2 Kaede (Very similar arsenal, except for supers). This got me thinking of more connections earlier today. For example, Kanae kinda bears a semi-close resemblance to Yuki (and Nakaruru, as mentioned earlier), also from Last Blade 2. Shin sorta reminded me of Mukuro with his spinning blade specials (even has a super version like Mukuro) and Nagasapa got me thinking of Onkia as the short tricky elderly fighter. And to finish, Alperen's mode switch is kinda similar to how LB2's boss, Kohryu, can switch between LB2's Speed and Power modes (his moveset still remained the same, whereas Alperen's changes completely with the switch).

What I'm trying to get at is that and ask is if the developers were influenced (and to what degree) by SNK's LB2 to create Dual Blades, mainly because given how the game plays, it feels like LB2 the closest while borrowing from other fighters, at least to me it does somehow.

Just a thought.

white shadow

08-06-2007, 07:45 PM

To me, Brandon looked like the Ryu-ish character of the game, given his moveset and how he turned out. To be more exact, he feels more like Last Blade 2 Kaede (Very similar arsenal, except for supers). This got me thinking of more connections earlier today. For example, Kanae kinda bears a semi-close resemblance to Yuki (and Nakaruru, as mentioned earlier), also from Last Blade 2. Shin sorta reminded me of Mukuro with his spinning blade specials (even has a super version like Mukuro) and Nagasapa got me thinking of Onkia as the short tricky elderly fighter. And to finish, Alperen's mode switch is kinda similar to how LB2's boss, Kohryu, can switch between LB2's Speed and Power modes (his moveset still remained the same, whereas Alperen's changes completely with the switch).

What I'm trying to get at is that and ask is if the developers were influenced (and to what degree) by SNK's LB2 to create Dual Blades, mainly because given how the game plays, it feels like LB2 the closest while borrowing from other fighters, at least to me it does somehow.

Just a thought.

Interesting comparison, such a shame I never played Last Blade 1 or 2 to do a full analysis.

In reality once all the secrets of each character in Dual Blades get figured out you'll realize that Jaman is actually the Ryu of the game while Brandon is the Dan. :razzy:

Hanzo_Hasashi

08-06-2007, 10:48 PM

WS I think is time to update the first thread with terminology and tier lists. :)

SlasherX

08-07-2007, 12:21 AM

Did your boss request blood too?

He encourged me to keep the gore elements for some marketing strategies. He knew the game would take a Mature rating and it did :)
Blood would be in the game. Most fighters have blood.. but death scenes... was a mistake :)

Lastly, was there any change in the throwing properties of the Euro version? Or did it still retain those instantaneous reactions whenever close? I always though tech hits was the only thing missing in the game.

I thought to add throw escapes but I thought it would change the mechanics too much and then gave up.
I also forgot to say I had added a "Trade Hit" feature in Jap version. It happens when 2 chars hit each other at the same time. Screen flashes yellow and game pauses for a short time and each char have the ability cancel their moves at that point. So uncancellable normal moves can be cancelled by this way.

BTW, you can get the Jap release if you want, it's closest one to the Euro release :D But in %80 Japanese... It has a different box too :D

SlasherX

08-07-2007, 12:48 AM

To me, Brandon looked like the Ryu-ish character of the game, given his moveset and how he turned out. To be more exact, he feels more like Last Blade 2 Kaede (Very similar arsenal, except for supers). This got me thinking of more connections earlier today.

Kaede from LB2... Interesting... I've never thought like that..

For example, Kanae kinda bears a semi-close resemblance to Yuki (and Nakaruru, as mentioned earlier), also from Last Blade 2.

Yes, she is your typical serious swordmaster girl :) My first sketches of her was more masculine though...

Shin sorta reminded me of Mukuro with his spinning blade specials (even has a super version like Mukuro) and Nagasapa got me thinking of Onkia as the short tricky elderly fighter. And to finish, Alperen's mode switch is kinda similar to how LB2's boss, Kohryu, can switch between LB2's Speed and Power modes (his moveset still remained the same, whereas Alperen's changes completely with the switch).

Good catches!
Excluding Kanae and Brandon, rest of the character designs belong to my friend Kerim Keskin.
His inspiration sources are from various animes and fighting games.
And as fas as I know, Nagasapa is his grandmother (or his mother!) or some other relative.. 'cause he's Khazakian :D

What I'm trying to get at is that and ask is if the developers were influenced (and to what degree) by SNK's LB2 to create Dual Blades, mainly because given how the game plays, it feels like LB2 the closest while borrowing from other fighters, at least to me it does somehow.

During the game design I wasn't inflcuenced by LB series. GG, SF3 and SS were my sources mostly. I think LB being a mixture of other fighting games caused such a similarity at the end... Since DB is also a mixture :)

white shadow

08-07-2007, 04:57 AM

WS I think is time to update the first thread with terminology and tier lists. :)

Okie Dokie!

I thought to add throw escapes but I thought it would change the mechanics too much and then gave up.
I also forgot to say I had added a "Trade Hit" feature in Jap version. It happens when 2 chars hit each other at the same time. Screen flashes yellow and game pauses for a short time and each char have the ability cancel their moves at that point. So uncancellable normal moves can be cancelled by this way.

BTW, you can get the Jap release if you want, it's closest one to the Euro release :D But in %80 Japanese... It has a different box too :D

Trade hit sounds really cool. Does it work with normals that normally can't cancel too? What if you're in the air, or using a special move into supers?

SlasherX

08-07-2007, 01:20 PM

Trade hit sounds really cool. Does it work with normals that normally can't cancel too? What if you're in the air, or using a special move into supers?

As far as I recall, all normals can be canceled into specials or supers. In air if the char has an air special or super (like Kanae, Brandon,Duke..) they can cancel too. I'm not sure about if specials are cancelable into a super after a trade... I should play and test or look at the code :)

INCIDENT

08-07-2007, 02:44 PM

In reality once all the secrets of each character in Dual Blades get figured out you'll realize that Jaman is actually the Ryu of the game while Brandon is the Dan.:razzy:
So....Nagasapa would be Sakura. :wgrin: :V

During the game design I wasn't inflcuenced by LB series. GG, SF3 and SS were my sources mostly. I think LB being a mixture of other fighting games caused such a similarity at the end... Since DB is also a mixture :)
Very true. Makes sense that alot of my observations have occurred games before LB. Pretty much all fighters borrow something from somewhere, with some adjustments to make it stand out.

white shadow

08-07-2007, 03:33 PM

As far as I recall, all normals can be canceled into specials or supers. In air if the char has an air special or super (like Kanae, Brandon,Duke..) they can cancel too. I'm not sure about if specials are cancelable into a super after a trade... I should play and test or look at the code :)

Wow that sounds cool, almost like a swordsman parry or clash.

Oh! One more thing! Can the Japanese version connect and battle with the US version etc...?

Why was the Euro version canceled and was any copies made?

So....Nagasapa would be Sakura. :wgrin: :V

Nagasapa is more like Sentinel.:wink:

Coming up next TIERS!

SlasherX

08-07-2007, 11:41 PM

Wow that sounds cool, almost like a swordsman parry or clash.

Oh! One more thing! Can the Japanese version connect and battle with the US version etc...?

Why was the Euro version canceled and was any copies made?

Nagasapa is more like Sentinel.:wink:

Coming up next TIERS!

Jap and USA versions can not connect... Even if they do, fight will go out of sync, since there are game play diferences.

Euro version is canceled because me and the crew left the company. I found another job.. And no copies have been made. But I've the code and bin file of the Euro version. So I can play on a gba emulator :)

white shadow

08-08-2007, 12:33 PM

Euro version is canceled because me and the crew left the company. I found another job.. And no copies have been made. But I've the code and bin file of the Euro version. So I can play on a gba emulator :)

Good for you.:sad:

sip

08-08-2007, 05:44 PM

I found another job.

Might you be taking another shot at the fighting genre? I must say, this game looks very interesting for a GBA fighter and from what I've read about it here I will surely be buying it off ebay sometime soon.

I'm sure with the right team you could do a lot more on a more powerful console (in this case, ANY other console), have you had any thoughts about making another fighter?

INCIDENT

08-08-2007, 07:04 PM

I can see this game being redone with updated sprites and animation. Work on some of the balance issues and it's good to go.

white shadow

08-08-2007, 07:26 PM

TIER LIST!

Here I will provide a list of the tiers for the non-EX characters in Dual Blades. I personally don't find this to be the full list because when EX characters are put into the mix the tiers becomes are little more high level.

I will first list the tiers and then a brief reason why they are top tier.

BROKEN: Alperen

TOP: Kanae, Nagasapa, Efe

MID: Duke, Shin, Jaman

LOW: Rungard, Brandon

As you can see the tiers are fairly balanced, with the low tier bracket very small compared with most current fighters. (Although most fighters nowadays have more than 9 fighters. :razzy:)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alperen: As a boss character it should come at no surprise. His Weapon Mode is devastating both in speed, priority and power. His Soul Mode is equally as powerful, although more defensive overall. His B&B does well over 60% and one of the combos I already listed does close to 100% if done perfectly. Simply put, this guy is totally broken.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kanae: Insane combo potential. Quick normals, excellent range and speed on all her attacks. Possesses 2 infinite combos and a B&B that does 49% Damage initially.

Nagasapa: Pretty much the Sentinel/ O. Sagat of Dual Blades. Insane space control, unpredictable high/low game and one of the most damaging supers in the game. Her Curse moves combined with her hit and run style can really frustrate and opponent to defeat if played properly.

Efe: If Kanae is this game's Magneto/Storm hybrid then Efe is this game's Ironman. Very damaging bread and butter, insane range, deadly corner game, and Ottoman Seige, the greatest super EVER!!! Not only does this super define Efe, but it leads to one of the easiest infinites in the game. Without a doubt Efe can go toe to toe with these other top tiers with ease.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shin: Excellent keepaway game. If not for the recovery time on his moves he would rival Nagasapa's projectile game easily. His midrange game is also deadly with his long spear normals. His Secret Weapon super is one of the most damaging supers in the game and one of the few to have complete invincibility at startup. He has an infinite although impractical for most fights.

Duke: A tank. Powerful attacks and has an infinite (although quite hard to pull off in a heated match.). He possesses excellent combos and counters, however, he lacks the speed to get in. Being the largest character in the game doesn't help in taking Duke-only extended combos either.

Jaman: Poor Jaman. One of the few characters to inherit no special glitches to exploit like the top tiers. Luckily what is already built into Jaman is so good that it doesn't detract from his excellent design. Nice average damaging combos, good specials, excellent mid-air fighting and jumps, and one of the best supers in the game, the nearly unstoppable Beast Roll.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brandon: Just like Jaman he has nothing special to offer but unlike Jaman what he does have stinks. Poor specials, slow normals, and very poor damage in the way of combos. His supers for the most part are impractical except in close range combos. Just a boring character all around.

Rungard: Innovative character but very hard to use for a poor payoff. He has an AWFUL close range game which combo heavy characters like Kanae and Efe absolutely destroy him in pressure. The lack of a quick easy dash also hurts although his teleport dash suffices decently. Sadly, with all his sorcery Rungard usually ends up in meatchunks.

Any further questions are greatly appreciated.:pleased:

kyox1

08-09-2007, 02:04 AM

Look like cool WS! Thanks for this thread. My char is Jaman, wery fun with play jaman. XD but music is bad i play without music.

SlasherX

08-09-2007, 03:31 AM

Might you be taking another shot at the fighting genre? I must say, this game looks very interesting for a GBA fighter and from what I've read about it here I will surely be buying it off ebay sometime soon.

I'm sure with the right team you could do a lot more on a more powerful console (in this case, ANY other console), have you had any thoughts about making another fighter?

If an opportunity arises I will definetaly try again, but I'm afraid it's not soon. The problem is finding good artists who are very patient to draw so many animation frames and doing pixel art. And that's too rare in Turkey. And the another problem is being a registered developer and finding a publisher.

Anyway thanks for the nice comments, I will never miss a chance to make a new fighting game! It's in my blood :rofl:

SlasherX

08-09-2007, 03:38 AM

I can see this game being redone with updated sprites and animation. Work on some of the balance issues and it's good to go.

If anyone is willing to redraw the frames, I appreciate that :wgrin: The problem is how we'll distribute the new one :sad:

SlasherX

08-09-2007, 03:44 AM

Good for you.:sad:

I'd love to release this one.. I wish I were Nintendo :rofl:

But for the people who wants to play it bad, I can provide some... erhh.. some extra...erh... INFO... yes info.. Just mail me and introduce yourself then I'll share the link of the EXTRA INFO with you.. :rofl:

galip_ka@yahoo.com

Cheers!

white shadow

08-09-2007, 05:11 AM

If anyone is willing to redraw the frames, I appreciate that :wgrin: The problem is how we'll distribute the new one :sad:

I can draw, problem is I don't have the equipment. :razzy:

Hmm this EXTRA INFO intrigues me.... *strokes beard*:smile:

Coming up (FINALLY) Kanae's Strategy and Info.

white shadow

08-09-2007, 04:31 PM

KANAE'S STRATEGIES & MISC. COMBOS!

This section will explain some of the intricate strategies and some unique combos that Kanae can use in opportune scenarios.

STRATEGY:

-Use Dash Cancels!

Kanae has many moves that have fast startup most notably her DF+K and BD+SL dash slash. By zig-zagging around with the dash and quickly canceling into one of those attacks you can do shock damage and mess with your opponent's mind a little. If you fail a quick Recovery is more than enough to cover you since most opponents will defend completely rather than risk a counterattack.

-Overhead Surprise!

Kanae has the absolute best Overhead in the game. One of the few characters than can combo into and out of her Overhead. Not to mention it is relatively safe compared to others.

Her short hopping overhead can be used when an opponent gets up after a knockdown. Because of the hop it can't be wakeup thrown and if it hits it can lead to-

*DF+PW, DF+BS (5 hits 20% Damage)

*DF+PW, Slash Dance (10 hits 40% Damage)

That's right! She can combo into her Slash Dance from it, although the window is pretty small and requires some practice.

-Overhead Strings:

*J.BS, Overhead

*D.SL, Overhead

*F+SL x N, Overhead

*D+K, Overhead

*Overhead, *pause* Overhead (lol I love this one.)

*Overhead, Jump back DF+SL, Overhead

*Backdash XX BD+SL *Recovery* Overhead

-Aerial Maneuvers!

Kanae possesses the Falling Death a sharp aeriacl slice downwards that brings her to the ground quickly a la Sakura's QCF+K. This move has awesome priority and the SL version has fast startup.

Uses:

Aerial Feint- By doing a quick jump back DF+SL you can surpr

MISCELLANEOUS COMBOS:

*.:The Clincher:.*

1. Throw D+K (Recovery) *dash-jump toward grounded opponent* J.BS, S.BS xx Slash Dance, DF+BS (11 hits 25% Damage)

-I call this combo, The Clincher. This combo has saved me quite a few times. It does respectable damage considering the recovery scaling. Kanae is one of the few characters that has a super bar to spare after a full meter recovery. Plus she's one of the few characters who can take advantage of that spare superbar. One most my most proud creations.:cool:

2. INFINITE!!!

J.BS, S.BS, FB+SL, DF+BS *1st hit* xx Sudden Death *hold up*

-This is the setup for the infinite, here's the why it works. SlasherX and his cohorts took great care in making Kanae's AA safe from glitches by preventing you from using *Recovery* early. Why do you ask? Because for the subsequent hits of her Dragon Slash to hit the opponent has to be in Juggle State 3. This mean the juggle state continues to exist as long as the the opponent is knocked down.

In Juggle State 2 what happens is that the opponent can be juggled for 2 hits then they return to neutral state. Brandon's DF+BS spin attack is an example of this.

Lastly Juggle State 1 occurs when only one hit is allowed after a juggle. Brandon's throw and Kanae's Magic projectiles does this.

Now these states are practically illusions because what you're changing is not only the property of the opponent but the properties of the moves that your character is using. Otherwise if you use them with a normal or a knockdown special, they will inherit the new juggle state of 1-2, making this infinite and others end abruptly.

So let's continue...

...DF+K *wait until the opponent falls down completely* FB+BS, *wait until the opponent falls completely* DF+K *repeat xN*

Certain specials will always retain that Juggle State 3 property no matter what. Most of these attacks are ones that lack their own intermediary juggle state and thus does damage cleanly.

Now scaling will start once you start this infinite, fortunately by using only special moves means that even at the most base level it will still take off 2-3% each special move, sometimes rounding to 4% for unknown reasons. Still it's quite painful if you're on the receiving end and the only way to get out is the full meter Combo Breaker.

3. T3H INS@N:looney:!!11!

Call the ambulance because this is by far her hardest combo, one that I've only attempted once, and I'm too lazy do again. Best done on Duke.

In Corner- (air) DF+SL, FB+SL, DF+PW *OTG!* Slash Dance, *time jump (good effin' luck)* (air) DF+SL *OTG!*, FB+SL, S.BS xx FB+SL, DF+BS *Dizzy* J.BS, FB+SL, S.BS xx FB+SL, DF+PW, DF+BS ( approx. 24 hits ??? Damage)

*Note this combo can be extended for a longer session if done with EX-Kanae. Thanks to her extra cancel.

I did this one time before and never again so I know it is possible, the worst part is unless you're in the corner it is impossible to know if the *OTG'd* (air) DF+SL comboed with FB+SL. The precision is near inhuman.

Hanzo_Hasashi: If you do this combo for the vid I will give you a bajillion e-points and rep you for all eternity.:smokin:

This ends my Kanae section, I will start the Nagasapa Guide next when I' ready...

Toodles!:karate:

SlasherX

08-10-2007, 02:52 PM

Wow! I must congratulate you :) This is a really good in-depth char analysis.
I have a few comments:

2. INFINITE!!!

J.BS, S.BS, FB+SL, DF+BS *1st hit* xx Sudden Death *hold up*

-This is the setup for the infinite, here's the why it works. SlasherX and his cohorts took great care in making Kanae's AA safe from glitches by preventing you from using *Recovery* early. Why do you ask? Because for the subsequent hits of her Dragon Slash to hit the opponent has to be in Juggle State 3. This mean the juggle state continues to exist as long as the the opponent is knocked down.

In Juggle State 2 what happens is that the opponent can be juggled for 2 hits then they return to neutral state. Brandon's DF+BS spin attack is an example of this.

Lastly Juggle State 1 occurs when only one hit is allowed after a juggle. Brandon's throw and Kanae's Magic projectiles does this.

Now these states are practically illusions because what you're changing is not only the property of the opponent but the properties of the moves that your character is using. Otherwise if you use them with a normal or a knockdown special, they will inherit the new juggle state of 1-2, making this infinite and others end abruptly.

So let's continue...

...DF+K *wait until the opponent falls down completely* FB+BS, *wait until the opponent falls completely* DF+K *repeat xN*

Certain specials will always retain that Juggle State 3 property no matter what. Most of these attacks are ones that lack their own intermediary juggle state and thus does damage cleanly.

Now scaling will start once you start this infinite, fortunately by using only special moves means that even at the most base level it will still take off 2-3% each special move, sometimes rounding to 4% for unknown reasons. Still it's quite painful if you're on the receiving end and the only way to get out is the full meter Combo Breaker.

Nice Job! :lovin:

Let me explain the glitch here:
Your juggle theory is good but actually there is only 1 juggle state. When an opponent enters into this state they can be hit whenever in air or ground as long as they get into the idle state or stand up.
So certain hits of the chars put the opponent into the juggle state and some don't.
every hit of Kanae's Dragon Slash, Brandon's Air Sonic Slash, Efe's Low Magic..etc But in certain times of the performed move, opponent's juggle state is closed. For example when Kanae lands from Dragon Slash. And sometimes the opponent can close it, like when an opponent hits to the ground after getting by Kanae's magic. The glitch here is actually Dragon Slash's cancel point here. I couldn't notice the possibility of canceling it to Sudden Death and keeping the "enabled juggle". Actually the juggle ends when Kanae lands from Dragon Slash. And I also forgot to close the juggle state when Kanae lands from AA Sudden Death :) So you can produce the same glitch with Slash Dance and Samurai Slicer. I'm not sure about Dragon Tail... Just cancel Dragon Slash's first hit ;)

This ends my Kanae section, I will start the Nagasapa Guide next when I' ready...

Looking forward to it :wonder:

Hanzo_Hasashi

08-10-2007, 04:35 PM

Nagasapa YES!

white shadow

08-10-2007, 06:07 PM

Wow! I must congratulate you :) This is a really good in-depth char analysis.
I have a few comments:

Nice Job! :lovin:

I should be the one honoring you. :china: You and your team made a kickass game where I could find out all this stuff. :pleased:

Let me explain the glitch here:
Your juggle theory is good but actually there is only 1 juggle state. When an opponent enters into this state they can be hit whenever in air or ground as long as they get into the idle state or stand up.
So certain hits of the chars put the opponent into the juggle state and some don't.
every hit of Kanae's Dragon Slash, Brandon's Air Sonic Slash, Efe's Low Magic..etc But in certain times of the performed move, opponent's juggle state is closed. For example when Kanae lands from Dragon Slash. And sometimes the opponent can close it, like when an opponent hits to the ground after getting by Kanae's magic. The glitch here is actually Dragon Slash's cancel point here. I couldn't notice the possibility of canceling it to Sudden Death and keeping the "enabled juggle". Actually the juggle ends when Kanae lands from Dragon Slash. And I also forgot to close the juggle state when Kanae lands from AA Sudden Death :) So you can produce the same glitch with Slash Dance and Samurai Slicer. I'm not sure about Dragon Tail... Just cancel Dragon Slash's first hit ;)

It doesn't work with Dragon Tail, the last hit is a regular knockdown... sadly. (Dragon Tail is a pointless super :razz:)

Wow! It was actually more complex than I ever imagined! So this is why even when I only hit with the first hit of Brandon's DF+BS and miss with the rest I still cannot juggle my opponent afterwards like with Kanae?

So you actually forgot to take away that cancelling ability from Kanae's Dragon Slash heh? Or did you mean for it to cancel but eliminate the juggle state from that point?

Looking forward to it :wonder:

I am humbled.:sweat: Due to your new information I almost feel like starting my favorite character Efe (possessing another braindead easy infinite) next but I already made a promise to cover Nagasapa so...

P.S., I almost forgot! Kanae does have a 3rd infinite but that one is just as ridiculous to pull off as the OTG version (posted before the last one)

In Corner- (air) DF+SL *quick rejump!* DF+SL xN....

Yes it can actually combo but the timing is so strict that if you're a few milliseconds off it won't combo.

Fortunately, she has a much easier combo to do the corner that does fantastic damage, too bad it's Duke Only:

In Corner- *SUPER DEEP!* J.BS *jump* (air) DF+SL *rejump* J.BS, (air) DF+SL, J.BS, (air) DF+SL, DF+BS... (11 Hits 54% DAMAGE!)

-Now this combo does amazing damage but most likely you will never get to pull it off in a real match for the simple fact that J.BS has to hit very deep and in the corner for this to work. Don't waste meter ending it with Slash Dance because it actually does less damage overall ironically. Duke can become dizzy in the combo which can be continued like so:

*SUPER DEEP!* J.BS, (air) DF+SL, DF+PW, DF+BS. (7 hits/ variable scaling damage)

Because of the limited canceling and nothing but powerful normals and special being used this entire combo works really well. Try it!

And that's pretty much it for Kanae...:wgrin:

SlasherX

08-11-2007, 02:25 PM

It doesn't work with Dragon Tail, the last hit is a regular knockdown... sadly. (Dragon Tail is a pointless super :razz:)

Yeah, adding a juggle opportunity at the end of it may have made it a lot more preferable :wink:

So you actually forgot to take away that cancelling ability from Kanae's Dragon Slash heh? Or did you mean for it to cancel but eliminate the juggle state from that point?

2nd one. I forgot to eleminate the juggle state. Super canceling Dragon Slash is cool IMO :lol:

I am humbled.:sweat: Due to your new information I almost feel like starting my favorite character Efe (possessing another braindead easy infinite) next but I already made a promise to cover Nagasapa so...

If I could find some time, I'll check the Euro version and prepare an in-depth changes list. I may also make some new changes to balance the characters according to the analysis have been made.. But why am I doing this? :rofl: Who will play it anyway... :lovin:

P.S., I almost forgot! Kanae does have a 3rd infinite but that one is just as ridiculous to pull off as the OTG version (posted before the last one)

In Corner- (air) DF+SL *quick rejump!* DF+SL xN....

Yes it can actually combo but the timing is so strict that if you're a few milliseconds off it won't combo.

Fortunately, she has a much easier combo to do the corner that does fantastic damage, too bad it's Duke Only:

In Corner- *SUPER DEEP!* J.BS *jump* (air) DF+SL *rejump* J.BS, (air) DF+SL, J.BS, (air) DF+SL, DF+BS... (11 Hits 54% DAMAGE!)

-Now this combo does amazing damage but most likely you will never get to pull it off in a real match for the simple fact that J.BS has to hit very deep and in the corner for this to work. Don't waste meter ending it with Slash Dance because it actually does less damage overall ironically. Duke can become dizzy in the combo which can be continued like so:

*SUPER DEEP!* J.BS, (air) DF+SL, DF+PW, DF+BS. (7 hits/ variable scaling damage)

Because of the limited canceling and nothing but powerful normals and special being used this entire combo works really well. Try it!

And that's pretty much it for Kanae...:wgrin:
I should have nerfed her...greatly :)

Anyways I also appreciate if anyone presents his ideas to balance out the fighters.

I'd love to hear how to make Alperen a normal fighter for instance..

Hanzo_Hasashi

08-11-2007, 03:08 PM

Slasher why dont use the DB sprites and create an engine ofyour own or a PC "fan" made game from scratch?

white shadow

08-11-2007, 08:57 PM

Yeah, adding a juggle opportunity at the end of it may have made it a lot more preferable :wink:

The thing is even Slash Dance can be used as a Pseudo-AA Super instead of it.

2nd one. I forgot to eleminate the juggle state. Super canceling Dragon Slash is cool IMO :lol:

What possessed you to? Ah nevermind.... lol

If I could find some time, I'll check the Euro version and prepare an in-depth changes list. I may also make some new changes to balance the characters according to the analysis have been made.. But why am I doing this? :rofl: Who will play it anyway... :lovin:

lol True no one would play it... but don't you want to know that you've made the game the best it can be? :wink: BUT WAIT! Couldn't you make this freeware and just make it downloadable online?:pleased:

I should have nerfed her...greatly :)

Yeah but she was your pride and joy, it's only natural.:rofl:

Oh here's a new extension of the previous combo I listed!

(On Duke in the corner) *SUPER DEEP* J.BS, *air* DF+SL, J.BS, *air* DF+SL, J.BS, DF+SL, Slash Dance, DF+BS (DIZZY) *SUPER DEEP* J.BS, *air* DF+SL, Slash Dance, DF+BS (24 hits 66% Damage!!!)

ROFL! I actually figured out that during the dizzy if I repeated the same formula I can raise enough meter for a second Slash Dance!:badboy: Thanks SlasherX!:rofl:

Anyways I also appreciate if anyone presents his ideas to balance out the fighters.

Don't make the same mistakes as other fighting programmers, instead of toning down the better characters make the worse characters better.

I'd love to hear how to make Alperen a normal fighter for instance..

Do you mean pre-Dual Blades or just toned down?

Well here's my toned down version...

Make him quasi-Weapon Mode, give him the DDD+P AA move but change it to DF+BS/SL (to prevent Weapons combo confusion) and only allow it to be juggled once.

Oh and keep Soul Spear, Soul Axe, and Soul Fist but reduce the damage.

BTW did you try out those Alperen combos I posted on the first page? Those should give you an idea on how broken he is. :razzy:

INCIDENT

08-11-2007, 10:52 PM

Nagasapa is more like Sentinel.:wink:
Nagasapa: Pretty much the Sentinel/ O. Sagat of Dual Blades. Insane space control, unpredictable high/low game and one of the most damaging supers in the game. Her Curse moves combined with her hit and run style can really frustrate and opponent to defeat if played properly.
Ah, I see why. I noticed she can lock down like mad and those curses are screwed up, especially the no blocking and no jumping curses.

SlasherX

08-12-2007, 12:32 PM

Slasher why dont use the DB sprites and create an engine ofyour own or a PC "fan" made game from scratch?

If I had time :confused: Actually I'm working a PC title at the moment and I can't make a PC game, I may only modify the original one since it's already done :) Hmm.. maybe I can release a "fun" gba game rom :) By changing the game's name and sprites a bit :P The problem is how illegal/legal this is... Anybody can enlighten us here..?

SlasherX

08-12-2007, 12:38 PM

lol True no one would play it... but don't you want to know that you've made the game the best it can be? :wink: BUT WAIT! Couldn't you make this freeware and just make it downloadable online?:pleased:

I don't own the Intellectual Properties, my ex-company does. So it's probably illegal... Or somehow if the copyright ares timed out..Maybe.. Or this will be just a pirated rom :)

Oh here's a new extension of the previous combo I listed!

(On Duke in the corner) *SUPER DEEP* J.BS, *air* DF+SL, J.BS, *air* DF+SL, J.BS, DF+SL, Slash Dance, DF+BS (DIZZY) *SUPER DEEP* J.BS, *air* DF+SL, Slash Dance, DF+BS (24 hits 66% Damage!!!)

ROFL! I actually figured out that during the dizzy if I repeated the same formula I can raise enough meter for a second Slash Dance!:badboy: Thanks SlasherX!:rofl:

You are welcome:rofl:

Don't make the same mistakes as other fighting programmers, instead of toning down the better characters make the worse characters better.

I would do the other way, don't worry..

Well here's my toned down version...
Make him quasi-Weapon Mode, give him the DDD+P AA move but change it to DF+BS/SL (to prevent Weapons combo confusion) and only allow it to be juggled once.
Oh and keep Soul Spear, Soul Axe, and Soul Fist but reduce the damage.
BTW did you try out those Alperen combos I posted on the first page? Those should give you an idea on how broken he is. :razzy:

I see, Thanks! I'll keep those in mind..

kane_warhead

08-12-2007, 01:08 PM

If anyone is willing to redraw the frames, I appreciate that :wgrin: The problem is how we'll distribute the new one :sad:

SlasherX that can be arranged. Do you mind if I email you?

white shadow

08-12-2007, 01:25 PM

I would do the other way, don't worry..

Oh something else I forgot to mention. It seems that when you increase the game's speed a lot of the comboability of many characters get worse as well- not to confuse that with the combos being harder to combo (because of the small window) but some moves will actually not combo at all.

Was this planned?

LongSh0t

08-12-2007, 03:33 PM

white shadow

08-12-2007, 06:01 PM

*subscribes*

Man White Shadow, your crazy. After you moved away, I just faded on this game and the second (arguably first, but I'll just let you have it :razz:) best Dual Blades player was gone. How can you pour so much in, when their is no competition to give you something in return?

BTW, whatever you post here should be made into a FAQ for gamefaqs.com. That way, its greatness is documented forever.

What can I say? I just love this game too much! ^_^!

Just so you guys know this is my best buddy and arch rival Longsh0t. He's the guy who basically forced me to get better and find the intricaties of every character. Many of my strategies are based off our battles. He's actually a (slightly) better Kanae player while I excel with Efe. In fact he pretty much made Kanae's Bread 'n' Butter standard because he was able to do it consistently before I could. lol

Efe is better anyways.:sweat:

LongSh0t

08-12-2007, 07:33 PM

:lol: I'm so honored.

4649

08-12-2007, 07:59 PM

This thread is dangerously approaching epic win

white shadow

08-13-2007, 06:58 AM

NAGASAPA COMBOS!!!

Nagasapa is an interesting character. Although she has a few combos, she is not as combo heavy as the other top tiers Kanae and Efe. She does have many tricks and tactics that can thwart rushdown and just piss off people in general.

COMBOS:

-J.BS, BF+SL, J.BS, S.BS (7 hits 46% Damage)

This is her B&B and pretty much her only standard combo. It can be done from full screen although unlike most combos you need to find an opening from a distance to utilize. But the use combo doesn't end here, it only adds to the pressure. (continued in the strategy section)

SUPER COMBOS:

-J.BS, S.BS xx Spirit Impact (8 hits 58% Damage)

Incredible damage as you can see, in fact Soul Smash is one of the most damaging supers in the game. Nothing special though.

-J.BS (ghost projectile), Spirit Impact (6 hits 56% Damage)

Long distance ownage, you'll use this a lot.

J,BS, S.BS xx Ghost Army (14 hits 52% Damage)

Meh. Ghost Army is a good super but not for this reason.

J.BS, Ghost Army (13 hits 52% Damage)

Meh.

-S.SL xx Soul Smash

Ah if it isn't Muscles, the ghost of a once living Prison Inmate. I don't want to say what he does to you in the sky, but those sound effects aren't punches... >_>

Nagasapa does have more unorthodox combos but because they are either impractical or require unique scenarios I will cover those in the strategy section.

Sayonara!

SlasherX

08-13-2007, 08:15 AM

SlasherX that can be arranged. Do you mind if I email you?

Yes, of course!

SlasherX

08-13-2007, 08:17 AM

Oh something else I forgot to mention. It seems that when you increase the game's speed a lot of the comboability of many characters get worse as well- not to confuse that with the combos being harder to combo (because of the small window) but some moves will actually not combo at all.

Was this planned?

Changing game speed also changes the frame windows. I knew such a problem would arise, but we wanted to keep the game speed settings...

BTW, on which gamespeed settings you normally play?

SlasherX

08-13-2007, 08:31 AM

I must be braindead, since I've forgot that I was making a PC version of DB years ago! My boss had asked me to do it in order to be used in some promotiona l stuff. We'd redraw the sprites with x2 scale :) But then we canceled this one due to the time constraints...
And now I've found it inside my dusty backup folders:) And I'm releasing it for you guys..

Actually this is just the fight screen and there is not selection screen or other things. Controls can not be changed, cause it was a test version.

I noticed that I'd changed to resolution to 320x240 and kept the fighter sprites. Also added some cool trail effects and shadows :)

Game's speed depends on your monitor refresh. Normally it's 60 FPS but I played 75 due to my monitor refresh rate setting.

The keyboard layout is:

* Arrow Keys : Movement
* NumPad 0 : Slash
* NumPad Enter : Big Slash
* NumPad 4 : Kick
* Numpad 6 : Power

* 1 : Change Fighter
* 2 : Switch Sides
* 3 : Toggle AI
* 4 : Fill Power Bar

And the download link is:

www.zoetropeint.com/test/DualBladesPC.zip

Just exract the zip and run DB.exe

And this is the Euro Version!

This will be probably buggy since it was my test version.

Have FUN!

white shadow

08-13-2007, 08:34 AM

Changing game speed also changes the frame windows. I knew such a problem would arise, but we wanted to keep the game speed settings...

BTW, on which gamespeed settings you normally play?

IC... I play on Extra, any faster things start to get glitchy but Normal speed feels too slow for me personally. I also play with Rage mode and Healing On as well, makes the fighting experience feel more like "Dual Blades" instead of the boring traditional fighting.

EDIT: SlasherX HOLY CRAP!!!:wow: Lemme test this out! Thanks a bunch!:bgrin:

Awwww shucks my laptop doesn't have a number pad.:crybaby:

Spooty Whiteboy

08-13-2007, 08:45 AM

EDIT: SlasherX HOLY CRAP!!!:wow: Lemme test this out! Thanks a bunch!:bgrin:

Awwww shucks my laptop doesn't have a number pad.:crybaby:

I just tried it out. Well...I couldn't see anything. All the colors are messed up, and most of the screen was just a blank purple. But I did notice the words "free cancel" and "last chance" come up on the screen as I was mashing buttons.

white shadow

08-13-2007, 09:02 AM

I just tried it out. Well...I couldn't see anything. All the colors are messed up, and most of the screen was just a blank purple. But I did notice the words "free cancel" and "last chance" come up on the screen as I was mashing buttons.

It works perfectly for me, I just can't press anything. =/

SlasherX

08-13-2007, 10:22 AM

It works perfectly for me, I just can't press anything. =/

I've added some keys, just download the same zip again.

W,A,S,D : Movement
T : Slash
Y : B.Slash
U : Kick
G : Power

Spooty Whiteboy

08-13-2007, 10:29 AM

It works perfectly for me, I just can't press anything. =/

Why is my screen messed up then? SlasherX? You got any suggestions on how I can see the game the right way?

white shadow

08-13-2007, 10:54 AM

I've added some keys, just download the same zip again.

W,A,S,D : Movement
T : Slash
Y : B.Slash
U : Kick
G : Power
Slash Dance looks 10 times cooler!:cool:

Nice intro music btw... Was it ripped or done by one of your programmers?

SlasherX

08-13-2007, 01:17 PM

Slash Dance looks 10 times cooler!:cool:

Nice intro music btw... Was it ripped or done by one of your programmers?

Thanks to that trail fx :rofl:

Music was done by my friends with whom I'm working at the same project at the moment. This is a quite old work of them actually. There were more of these music. They were used in my first fighting game project (Dual Blades' Anchestor Game) Slashers : Revenge Wars :wonder:

SlasherX

08-13-2007, 01:20 PM

Why is my screen messed up then? SlasherX? You got any suggestions on how I can see the game the right way?

Can you mail some screenshots to me? Mainmenu and in-game.

galip_ka@yahoo.com

And if you played with your video card options by using their utilities like ATI Catalyst Control Center... Try reseting all options back to defaults.

white shadow

08-13-2007, 02:26 PM

They were used in my first fighting game project (Dual Blades' Anchestor Game) Slashers : Revenge Wars :wonder:

Wait what?!

SlasherX

08-14-2007, 02:21 AM

Wait what?!

I had mentioned about that game in a previous post.
It was actually my hobby work. Fighter sprites were drawn by me with Deluxe Paint (They sucked BTW) and char artwork were my pencil drawings. I ripped the background images from a forgotton 3D pseudo PC fighting game called Savage Warriors. The game was very bloody and some gameplay mechanics were introduced before I used them in DB like Recovery, Breaker, Power Move Combining, Block ... etc

As I said it was DB's anchestor.

Kanae and Brandon were on that one :wonder:

white shadow

08-14-2007, 07:45 AM

NAGASAPA STRATEGY & MISC. COMBOS Part.1

This is the key to using Nagasapa lies in her strategy and pressure tactics, not her combos.

PRESSURE!

J.BS Usage

This is essential in mastering Nagasapa. When doing her J.BS in midair she releases a spectre which travels full screen while still hitting high. This controls a lot of space and tends to prevent aerial assaults. The game's engine only allows one projectile at a time so you can't spam them until the first ghost has left for a few seconds.

High J.BS- Useful for preventing jump-ins or to pressure an opponent to stay on the ground. This is does by pressing J.BS while jumping up. Best done jumping backwards

Low J.BS- Useful for long distance combos. It hits at low altitude which pressures a grounded opponent who is blocking high to second guess blocking high or low to avoid it, sometimes blocking low and getting hit which leads to a Spirit Impact. This attack is done by pressing J.BS at the peak of your jump. Best done when jumping towards your opponent.

The Double- This utilizes the her spacing game perfectly. By jumping backwards to do a low J.BS projectile, then quickly jumping forward to do a high J.BS creates an effective pressure game and annoys those parry happy players who sees your ghosts as a way to build meter.

Pressure Strings

Now how do you impose pressure on a opponent in a game that lack's block stun? By utilizing cancels and repetitive block strings to pry an opening.

For Example:

Take her B&B- -J.BS, BF+SL, J.BS, S.BS (7 hits 46% Damage)

Well unfortunately you can't extend it other than comboing into a super, which isn't recommended because the scaling is atrocious. However after the S.BS you can cancel into the BF+SL/ Spirit Impact. When this occurs 2 things will happen-

1. Your opponent will be "spooked" and continue blocking, creating space for more pressure.

2. They will attempt to hit you and get hit by the Ghost.

Disclaimer: Certain characters will have moves and supers that can evade or plow through the ghost so be wary! Jaman for instance can even crouch below the ghost and hit Nagasapa.

After this you can attempt a- C.BS, S.SL, Overhead, Curses or simply jump away and do a J.BS.

Spirit Crush/Impact Tactics

One of her risk/reward moves. Most of the time her sumo ghost relies on prediction rather than comboability.

Spirit Crush is very useful for taking off the pressure or when an opponent gets desperate. Often times an opponent will lose their cool after getting hit successively and will jump at you. If you use a Spirit Impact it will knock them right out of the sky and put them back at square one.

The key is alternating between the BS and SL versions throwing them off to the timing. Otherwise a confident opponent might actually parry/block one of them and screw you over. (Hopefully you would have the meter to use Recovery)

One way to prevent this is to use J.BS before this. If an opponent is getting antsy they will often try to jump afterwards, if they are being defensive and try to parry your attacks it will throw off their rhythm.

Note: If you try to throw out a random Spirit Crush try to at least see if you have meter to spare for a Recovery, otherwise you can get really owned.

Now Spirit Impact is the bane of all opponents. A neutral Spirit Impact does a clean 50% of life, so just the thought of this will put fear in a opponent from jumping or doing anything risky. As a Nagasapa player anytime a you see even the slightest flinch take advantage of it!

Note: Experienced players with gusto will sometimes try to bait it with a random normal/special and then immediately use Recovery so watch out! Kanae's Final Punishment will DESTROY you as well!

Spirit of Might Strats

One of the pros to having ghosts are your homies is that they can't get hit back when they help you jump some fools. Here is a quick mini-guide of the unforseen uses for this move.

*Pseudo-AA: Spirit of Might hits very high, slightly above Nagasapa's head, so if you want more horizontal coverage without the risk of using Spirit of Crush this move can be very helpful. If predicting that an opponent will jump backwards to avoid you it is also useful for making them *fall into* the attack. Unfortunately the move doesn't juggle or knockdown but it does create nice space.

*Wake Up Pressure: This takes quite a bit of skill. After a knockdown (such as a throw) you can time the crush to hit the rising opponent as their invincibility wears off, if times correctly you can even make the Ghost hit behind them- all the while you can jump at them for a potential combo chance.

*Super Pressure!: What is super pressure? By summoning SOM then immediately using Recovery and going aggro, you can confuse and bewilder your opponent. This tactic doesn't do much damage thanks to scaling, but it can lead to a Curse or surprise kill in a close match.

Well this ends Part One of the Nagasapa guide, as you can see she has a lot of stuff already. Toodles!

SlasherX

08-14-2007, 10:30 AM

Good Job again :rofl:

Let me guess... the next is Nagasapa's curses... :wonder:

BTW, I wonder how many people are you guys? Since you mention about "opponents"...

And white shadow, it's a really good idea to compile these stats in a faq and submit to GameFAQs. Don't let these fade out here :china:

white shadow

08-14-2007, 01:22 PM

Good Job again :rofl:

Let me guess... the next is Nagasapa's curses... :wonder:

Yeah Curses, Combos, and Corner Traps.

and Throws...

BTW, I wonder how many people are you guys? Since you mention about "opponents"...

Well in the "old" days back in high school there was 4 of us who played the game, Longsh0t and I were the innovators but the 2 other guys were decent as well. We pretty much spent a bulk of our high school days playing the game to death and finding new stuff.:rofl: So most of this stuff is directly from experience.

And white shadow, it's a really good idea to compile these stats in a faq and submit to GameFAQs. Don't let these fade out here :china:

Oh I will look into that. I always wanted to make a faq but I was too lazy to look into the details of posting one.

SlasherX

08-15-2007, 01:34 PM

Well in the "old" days back in high school there was 4 of us who played the game, Longsh0t and I were the innovators but the 2 other guys were decent as well. We pretty much spent a bulk of our high school days playing the game to death and finding new stuff.:rofl: So most of this stuff is directly from experience.

Now all pieces got together:rofl: It's really good to know this man!
And keep the guides rolling!

BTW... Where is everybody?

Did anyone else download the PC version?

HEEEY!! Somebody hear me!?

INCIDENT

08-15-2007, 03:52 PM

I dl'd it, but when I opened it, all I got was a white screen and the music playing. I could highlight stuff, only because I heard the sound of the cursor when it moved. Then again, might be my comp. since it's far from good for most games. I only use it for internet and typing papers.

white shadow

08-16-2007, 08:47 AM

NAGASAPA STRATEGY & COMBOS cont...

Before I continue with more strategic elements of Nagasapa's moves, I feel that it is necessary to explain the rules of her many ghosts...

Ghost Rules

-Only one Spirit of Might is allowed on screen at a time.

This means that if you attempt to cancel into another Spirit of Might while one is still on screen you will cancel into nothing.

-Spirit of Might and Spirit of Crush/ All Supers cannot be summoned at the same time.

Basically, this means you can't attack with more than one of the same ghost or any other ghost in your arsenal unless they are a Curse, Mine, or Normal.

-During a Curse, you are unable to throw your opponent.

For some odd reason unbeknown to me, during any kind of Curse (even Guard Curse) Nagasapa cannot throw her opponent at any time.

-Only one form of Curse is allowed at any given time.

Pretty much common sense.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program....
__________________________________________________ _____________________________

Cursing Tactics & Principles

Probably the most unique and devastating part of using Nagasapa is her Curse. In addition to her keepaway/pressure style this really intensifies the anxiety an opponent feels if they get hit. Each Curse has their pros and con but in reality it comes down mostly to personal preference, knowing your opponent's strengths and weaknesses, and knowing the character they're playing.

No Jump Curse- DF+SL

My personal favorite. In combination with her high/low game this opens up so many points of attack. However, if your opponent goes on the defensive it can be very tricky to see what sort of desperate measure they'll use take to take you down, especially if they have a dashing special/super or move with invincibility frames. The best moves to use are your overhead and S.SL because of the confusing high/low hits while SOM and low J.BS are in the mix.

Best used on: Kanae, Duke, Efe, Brandon

*Note* Kanae, Jaman, Rungard, and Shin still have the ability to short hop via SL+PW Overhead. Kanae can combo into and out of it as seen in my previous character strategy.

Confusion Curse- DF+BS

Reverses all motions except Up and Down. One major point is to be relentless, don't even make your opponent realize what kind of Curse they were just hit with. This will confuse them before they can even react properly. If they are knocked down use delayed Spirit of Might to hit from behind which further increases the confusion.

Best used on: All

If you do allow them time to recognize the type of Curse they have an experienced opponent will adjust and Parry/Block your attacks- which will be effective considering you cannot throw them but they can throw you, wasting ample time. Reverse Parrying works on a subconscious level because it follows the natural blocking mechanism, which could exploit your offensive holes, so be wary. Same applies to...

Guard Reverse- DB+SL

A bastardized version of Confusion Curse. Pretty much everything covered in Confusion Curse applies here as well. It is worse in the fact that a player who excels at Parrying might not even need to change their playing style that much, an aggressive player might not even block regardless.

Best used on: Not recommended

No Specials Curse- DB+BS

Oh the irony. Nagasapa uses specials often, so if you have a Nagasapa mirror match this is essential to use. Not allowing special cripples many fighters, and players will have a hard time adjusting their playing style when they are using characters that utilize specials to zone or combo with. This is largely a defensive Curse, if done when the clock is running low an opponent pretty much has lost because they are unable to do a super attack in their combo for a decisive victory. IMO my second favorite Curse because of this alone. It does have it's weaknesses though, Kanae, Efe, Jaman, Duke all have impressive combo strings and high priority normals that can suffice if necessary.

Best used on: Nagasapa, Rungard, Brandon, Shin

Using all these Curses depends on the pace of the match and the opponent's mindset and character. I personally find No Jump and No Special Curse useful because it goes against the very instinct of a fighting game player, whether they are aggressive or defensive.

GUARD CRUSH:

Honestly, I rarely use this because it isn't easy to catch an opponent at all with this. The payoff is HUGE but since an opponent can still attack it isn't as attractive, the damage also varies because if your opponent gets knocked time it consumes much of your time bar. Even worse is that you can't build meter with this on or throw (as stated prior in the rules section).

TELEPORT USES

Nagasapa has 2 teleports, each with their own uses although one is less effective than the other.

Teleport (Horizontal)- FB+BS

The worst of the 2. During the shifting period she is vulnerable from all attacks. If used occasionally in SOM lockdown it can surprise a your opponent and make them block the wrong direction. Don't abuse it though. You can use a J.SL to hit high before landing.

Teleport (Vertical)- FB+SL

The better of the 2. The auto-tracking ability works well but if blocked you will suffer... A LOT. Best used in the corner where it provides pressure for an opponent trying to jump out. When combined with the Spirit Mine corner trap (which will be revealed later) it can be very effective and deadly. It can also be comboed.

Keep in mind a Recovery attempt won't help you when attempting a Teleport so they're a lot of risk involved.

********************
STANDING SLASH STUFF

This is a small interlude to explain a certain weird effect that S.SL has.

S.SL has a 2 stage effect. The first hit is neutral, then the next quick hit hit low. At the same time she advances for a bit. Now if it hits correctly the low hit can actually hit behind the opponent. However! Sometimes the move can even hit both in front and behind your opponent making it unblockable!

This is useful for many things, and she can combo into her Soul Smash and Spirit Impact or even to poke holes in their defense. If it is goes too close you can get counter-thrown even if you fully connect so be wary.

SPIRIT MINE/ CORNER TRAP

This is where things get fun. Spirit Mine aka Facehugger (F,BF+BS) is a unique attack. Normally it looks useless but in a few scenarios (notably with the broken EX Nagasapa) it can be a killer!

Here's how the trap works...

In the corner when an opponent is knocked down go close and do a Spirit Mine. If done correctly the ghost will appear behind the rising sprite. Next, create some distance and do either a C.BS xx SOM or a S.SL. The Mine will delay a bit and count as a hit from back while you hit from the front making blocking both nearly impossible. Even better both your attack and Mine will connect, knocking the opponent down back into the corner, repeating the process.

The great part is, even if they block both (which is hard to imagine) Nagasapa can cancel into her SOM and keep the lockdown going. Her vertical Teleport works well too.

*This can also be done midscreen but it is obviously not as effective.

MISC. COMBOS!

Finally!!! More combos!!!

1.a) Throw, S.BS *Recover*, Any Curse. (2 hits, 13% Damage)

-YOU NEED TO LEARN THIS! Forget if you have a glowing super bar, using this combo is a guaranteed way to get an upper hand in any match.

Just remember do not do the S.BS *Recover* early or you risk the effect of the BS to transfer causing your opponent to immediately stand from midair instead of getting knocked down. Wait until they are about to fall to do this.

1.b) Throw, S.BS *Recover*, (wait for opponent to get up slightly) SL SOM, Any Curse. (4 hits, 14% Damage)

-More stylish variation, doesn't work on Nagasapa and hard to catch on Efe or Alperen since they rise fast.

2.a) *Opponent in corner* Teleport (Vertical), J.BS, S.BS xx Spirit Impact (9 hits, 63% Damage)

-Amazing damage, but very hard to catch.

2.b) Teleport (Vertical), J.BS xx Spirit Impact (7 hits, 65% Damage)

-This midscreen combo only works on taller characters and isn't easy to catch.

3.) Spirit Mine, S.BS (10 hits 27% Damage)

-Nice, pseudo-stylish dizzy combo.

4.) Throw, *Recover* Ghost Army. (12 hits, 22% Damage)

-Useful ender.

5.) Throw, *Recover* (jump toward opponent if not in corner and wait for opponent to stand) Soul Smash (3 hits, 20% Damage)

*Note* If you use a S.BS before Soul Smash you will do 1% less damage.

6.) BS Spirit of Might, Curse (5 hits, 28% Damage)

-Basically another Dizzy Combo

Tid Bits:

This is just random stuff to remember.

-Nagasapa has a secret super move called Healing (DB,DF+PW) which restores 20-25% of her health bar if uninterrupted. To be honest I rarely use this move because it requires a full meter but if it is a close match and the time is counting down I guess it might be worth it, esp. after her throw.

Oh and the motion is a little awkward to do and it's easy to make a mistake and do a random super instead.

-Taunt taunt taunt! Nagasapa has a quick taunt which on a knockdown can be done at least twice depending on your opponent and the distance you are to them. Not only that, the same animation used for her taunt is used for her other moves so it can sometimes perplex your opponents if done randomly, expecting an attack.

Well this finally ends the Nagsapa Guide... I will start my most ambitious and possibly most lengthy guide next, for Efe! ^_^!!!