History of Street Fighter scene

[vieja escuela]

Hi.
I'd like to ask infos concerning the history of Sf Scene.

According to alt.games.sf2 and the archives of this forum, I'll try to reconstruct what I have understood.

Sf2 and Ce era: best players were Thomas Osaki, Tomo Ohira, Jeff Schaefer...

Hf: same players plus?

Super Street Fighter 2: ?

Super Turbo: Same as above plus others (who probably have started before). John Choi, Mike Watson, Wolfe bros... (alt.games.sf2 archives).

But specifically, when did the tournaments acquire a national dimension, going beyond east/west division?
And when did Capcom Usa officially start to sponsor the tournaments?

Street Fighter The Movie: just joking, don't worry :-)

Street Fighter Alpha 1: ?

Sf Alpha 2: Alex Valle champion? (when and how did he win the title?).

Street Fighter 3: New Generation of games and new generation of hardcore players too? Same people mentioned above plus?

Sf Alpha 3: basing on Youtube japanese videos, Daigo became national champion (he lost A2 nationals against?) in 1998, he went to US and defeat Valle and other players.

The challenge between Japan and Usa began with A3 or before?

Sf3 Second Impact: ?

Sf3 Third Strike: Wikipedia shows a list of Tougeki winners, starting from 2003 (and what happened before? Difficult to answer without the knowledge of japanese language).

Shoryuken Wiki about Evo championship: lacking of several final results. And why Evo hasn't a Wikipedia voice?

Capcom vs Snk 1 and 2: what about the Snk scene? Did Snk hardcore gamers managed to beat/obtain good results against Capcom players?

[Hol Horse]

H
Sf Alpha 3: basing on Youtube japanese videos, Daigo became national champion (he lost A2 nationals against?)

in A2 he lost to Ohnuki, and he had his revenge in A3 perfecting Nuki in the nationals final.

[DagV]

i got a SF booklet from around when super street fighter II first hit the arcades.
it features a full ranking list of us players that year in SF II Turbo.
tomo ohira is at the top of the list. and theres a full 2 pages about how his unbeatable guile rewrote the tier list.

[goodm0urning]

Valle became the king of SFA2 when he won B3 in 1996.

And did anybody actually play SSF2?

[RenoROB]

If I remember right... there were many great OG player back in the day... i just listed the top few that clearly stood out but by no means are they the only ones that dominated the scene. Both nor cal and so cal had some amazing players...

OG SF series: Thomas Osaki, Jason Nelson, Wolfes Brothers, in Nor Cal. Mike Watson, Tomo Ohira, Jeff Sheafer in So Cal.
-Tomo quit right after SSF2

SFA1 - Mike Watson
SFA2 - Alex Valle (workin at SHGL definately helps hehe - unbeatable)/John Choi/Jason Nelson/ Jeff Schafer/ Thao Dong (after yrs later was the first person to beat Alex in a tourney)
SFA3 - Jason Cole, Jason Nelson, Alex Valle then John Choi after Sak CC was found

SF3 NG: if i remember right Valle and Choi
SF3 2i : Valle and Eddie Lee
SF3 3s: Hsien Eddie Lee in the beginning, now Pyrolee, Justin

CvS1: Choi/Ricky/Jason Nelson - Nor Cal dominated this game
CvS2: Choi/Ricky/Jason Nelson/Bucktooth Nor Cal, Combofiend/Valle So Cal, JWong EC

[box]

OG SF series: Thomas Osaki, Jason Nelson, Wolfes Brothers, in Nor Cal. Mike Watson, Tomo Ohira, Jeff Sheafer in So Cal.
-Tomo quit right after SSF2

Didn't Tomo play a bit of ST. I thought he did.

[vieja escuela]

[QUOTE=RenoROB;4050435]If I remember right... there were many great OG player back in the day... i just listed the top few that clearly stood out but by no means are they the only ones that dominated the scene. Both nor cal and so cal had some amazing players...

Interesting reply.

SFA2 - Alex Valle (workin at SHGL definately helps hehe - unbeatable)

When did he discover "his" cc technique?

/John Choi/Jason Nelson/ Jeff Schafer/ Thao Dong (after yrs later was the first person to beat Alex in a tourney)
SFA3 - Jason Cole, Jason Nelson, Alex Valle then John Choi after Sak CC was found

Consisting in?

[vieja escuela]

in A2 he lost to Ohnuki,

Which characters did they use?

and he had his revenge in A3 perfecting Nuki in the nationals final.

I can't even imagine the number of hours of hard training Daigo needed to perfect Onhuki in a national final.

By the way, the Sodom player was amazing.

[_Snake_]

I posted some scans on the early 2000s scene not too long ago: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=3986797#post3986797

[psychochronic]

By the way, the Sodom player was amazing.

The Sodom player who got 3rd in that tournament was Chikyuu.

[Bplus]

Street Fighter The Movie: just joking, don't worry :-)




Maybe I'm the only one? ;)

[RockCho]

Eh... Street Fighter the Movie is a doujin game. =P

[Soundbwoy]

I posted some scans on the early 2000s scene not too long ago: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=3986797#post3986797

Good Shit. Its funny how there is little 3S coverage compared to MvC2 & CvS2. Just shows you how much 3S has grown. I even got my old butt back into fighting games (stopped playing them from 96' to 2003).

[LAAkuma]

Tomo Ohira SF2, CE, Super undisputed untouchable. Best skilled player of all time, bar none. Most tournament wins total of anyone ever.

He took off a year around Hyper to Super, and I won ever single tournament he was not at. Tomo and I won for years on end.

Thomas Osaki is not the same league until Super Turbo. Nobody from Bay area was on that level untiL Super turbo.

So we have it like this.

SF2: Roger, Tomo, Willie Lee
SF2CE: Tomo, Jeff Schaefer, Mike Watson
SF2HF: Tomo. Jeff Schaefer
SF2Super: Tomo, Jeff Schaefer, Mike Watson
SF2ST: Jeff Schaefer (I won the most SF2ST tournaments in a row, of anyone in history at Worlds Finest) Then I retired from full time play, and Mike Watson, Thomas Osaki were top 2 for sure for a while, then others like the Wolfs came up.
SF Alpha: Mike Watson for sure, John Choi
SF Alpha 2: Alex Valle, Jeff Schaefer, John Choi, Jason Nelson I was the only person to ever Beat Alex in a big torunament 2x at that game. People re-writing history on here. I beat him 2 series on that game, nobody can claim that, just me.
SF3 no idea, none at all.

Worlds Finest Comics, pre Super Turbo was the most competitive tournaments in allof North America, bar none. And I was ranked #1 for years.

I was asked to go to Evo, and I will not go, but if people want to play me, I will pay them that courtesy and play them in LA sometime.

I used to have all my records written down of how many games I lost to X people, and how many games I won vs X people.

I have a winning record, games wise, against everyone I ever played except Tomo Ohira up until Super Turbo. Then I started lossing to all kinds of people in Alpha's, etc because it was for fun.

You got to play 8 hours a day back then to even have a chance. And we all did, and more, from 1991-1994.

Now its over, and I remember it well. Tomo and I talk about it, and laugh at all the people we met.

Jeff

[sir_arthur]

Snip

good shit :wow:

[RenoROB]

I can't even imagine the number of hours of hard training Daigo needed to perfect Onhuki in a national final.

By the way, the Sodom player was amazing.

well by then Daigo and Nuki were particing partners so they knew each others game very well perfecting someone u know isnt that hard...

Chikyuu was the Sodom player

and Daigo was not part of the A2 tourney... at least not the big one set up by Gamest. Bas was... HE WAS HELLA YOUNG LOOKING hahah

Schaefer got it right for the most part....

If you talked to Nor Cal players though (ie Nelson and Wolfe bros) they'll beg to differ in who were the best during those time... esp after CE... many of arguments have me nelson and apoc had w/ each other about those time

I quit playing SF for a bit right after A1 (god hated that game w/ a passion) so I'm not aware of Schaefer ever beating Valle in any tourney... I remember when Thao beating Valle five or so years later and everyone on a.g.sf2 making a big deal that Thao gave Valle his first lost... so I dont know bout that story

So Cal definately had the best competition and World's Finest was definately the place to play... My cousin use to live by Pico Rivera and he would take me to this comic book place and play Street... so from time to time we would go there and play Street... and I would get killed by literally everyone there... he would tell me stories about the tournaments and such... it just made you want to get better and better.

[vieja escuela]

First, thank you for infos, your reply was very interesting.

Tomo Ohira SF2, CE, Super undisputed untouchable. Best skilled player of all time, bar none. Most tournament wins total of anyone ever.

He took off a year around Hyper to Super, and I won ever single tournament he was not at. Tomo and I won for years on end.

Thomas Osaki is not the same league until Super Turbo.

I thought he was a top Ww/Ce/Hf player, one of the oldest gamers.


Nobody from Bay area was on that level untiL Super turbo.

And now, because of your statement, Bay area players are going to flame! :-)

So we have it like this.

SF2: Roger, Tomo, Willie Lee

Roger?


SF2CE: Tomo, Jeff Schaefer, Mike Watson
SF2HF: Tomo. Jeff Schaefer
SF2Super: Tomo, Jeff Schaefer, Mike Watson

Why Watson's absence in Hf?

SF2ST: Jeff Schaefer (I won the most SF2ST tournaments in a row, of anyone in history at Worlds Finest) Then I retired from full time play, and Mike Watson, Thomas Osaki were top 2 for sure for a while, then others like the Wolfs came up.
SF Alpha: Mike Watson for sure, John Choi
SF Alpha 2: Alex Valle, Jeff Schaefer, John Choi, Jason Nelson I was the only person to ever Beat Alex in a big torunament 2x at that game. People re-writing history on here. I beat him 2 series on that game, nobody can claim that, just me.

So Valle didn't start with classic Sf serie?


SF3 no idea, none at all.

Worlds Finest Comics, pre Super Turbo was the most competitive tournaments in allof North America, bar none.

Then the tournament should be put in Shoryuken Wiki.


And I was ranked #1 for years.
I was asked to go to Evo, and I will not go, but if people want to play me, I will pay them that courtesy and play them in LA sometime.

Question, maybe I am ot but no one could answer in other threads. I am looking for good import stores in LA that sell the Hori Real Arcade Pro 3 joystick: can you give me some addresses?

I used to have all my records written down of how many games I lost to X people, and how many games I won vs X people.

I have a winning record, games wise, against everyone I ever played except Tomo Ohira up until Super Turbo. Then I started lossing to all kinds of people in Alpha's, etc because it was for fun.

Having fun is an essential part of any kind of videogame. In my opinion, in 2d beat'em up having fun means to play any type of characters, even (especially?) if they are considered "low tiers" (I don't really believe in those lists). And when people have fun using unusual characters, showing skills with them, accepting mirror matches against players who frequently use those characters, the defeats don't matter.

You got to play 8 hours a day back then to even have a chance. And we all did, and more, from 1991-1994.

Great years that arcade players in the whole world won't forget.

Now its over, and I remember it well. Tomo and I talk about it, and laugh at all the people we met.

Jeff

Arcades are over and what they have represented is over too.
Probably I am rhetorical but I think internet, consoles or cybercafes lan games would never be a true substitute of arcades.
And new generations of players will never understand what they have lost.

[vieja escuela]

well by then Daigo and Nuki were particing partners so they knew each others game very well perfecting someone u know isnt that hard...

True. But Ohnuki can't be considered as "someone".

Chikyuu was the Sodom player

and Daigo was not part of the A2 tourney... at least not the big one set up by Gamest.

Did Gamest organize the tournament?

Bas was... HE WAS HELLA YOUNG LOOKING hahah

Schaefer got it right for the most part....

If you talked to Nor Cal players though (ie Nelson and Wolfe bros) they'll beg to differ in who were the best during those time... esp after CE... many of arguments have me nelson and apoc had w/ each other about those time

It would be interesting to know their opinions.

I quit playing SF for a bit right after A1 (god hated that game w/ a passion) so I'm not aware of Schaefer ever beating Valle in any tourney... I remember when Thao beating Valle five or so years later and everyone on a.g.sf2 making a big deal that Thao gave Valle his first lost... so I dont know bout that story

So Cal definately had the best competition and World's Finest was definately the place to play... My cousin use to live by Pico Rivera and he would take me to this comic book place and play Street... so from time to time we would go there and play Street... and I would get killed by literally everyone there... he would tell me stories about the tournaments and such...
it just made you want to get better and better.

Trying to improve, without never forgetting the pleasure to play: this is Street Fighter isn'it?

[Maj]

http://www.shoryuken.com/features/

Click on Javi's article titled "Editorial: A modern SF Community Primer."

[Jericho]

Arcades are over and what they have represented is over too.
Probably I am rhetorical but I think internet, consoles or cybercafes lan games would never be a true substitute of arcades.
And new generations of players will never understand what they have lost.

Arcades were so awesome in that time period, when SF2 came out and each arcade had at least 3 machines and there was lines at all of them. Quarters lined the screen. Internet gaming cannot compare to bumping elbows at a cabinet.

[terracotta]

good shit.. in just to sponge up knowledge.

does anyone know much about the Japan scene? like.. were Ohnuki, Daigo, etc playing since HF, or were they newer school?

also where does BAS fit into all that? i think in B4 he was the only Akuma who knew Sodom couldn't duck Akuma's jab (and hence beat Chikyuu).

[DJcream]

Shameless plug alert:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8302192&publicUserId=5606215
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8302121&publicUserId=5606215

I usually update this every year around EvoWorld time. I think I'll talk 'bout DPC, Melty Blood, Smash bros and SFIV announcement when I do update this summer.
NOTE: I dunno jack about the Japanese scene so yeah, don't expect much coverage on events outside of the states.

[Airthrow]

I have a winning record, games wise, against everyone I ever played except Tomo Ohira up until Super Turbo. Then I started lossing to all kinds of people in Alpha's, etc because it was for fun.

You got to play 8 hours a day back then to even have a chance. And we all did, and more, from 1991-1994.

Now its over, and I remember it well. Tomo and I talk about it, and laugh at all the people we met.

Jeff

I like how someone from the top finally admits this much. It's funny how the American mindset is different from some of the Japanese. For example, I used to hang out with a few of the top japanese names in Virtua Fighter, and one of them said he used to have dreams about VF where he would come up with techniques, then go to the arcade before school to play, then play after school.

Then you have a LOT of the known names in American competitive fighting games who try to act MUCH cooler than they actually are, and downplay how much time they put into playing fighters. I've not seen a lot of discussion on this subject (I started a thread about it a long time ago, it didn't go anywhere).

I just think that in America it's more idealized to be gifted at something than to put hard work in, to the point where top players try to pretend they never play games except for winning tournaments. I could believe this is true for some of the old timers that have the knowlege base/skills where they only need the occasional brushup, but no one ever got good only playing in tournaments...

[xrolento]

This is such nonsense. Watson never placed top 5 when he came to norcal in st. Alex wolfe and osaki perfected tomo the night before the st tourney. tomos fat manager said "i cant allow alex to play tomo anymore" The other BS is that LA players always had to come to norcal simply because we never lost to them. There was no point in going there. As far as renorob he was like 10 years old, how does he know this? Jeff please dont try to rewrite history. As a matter fact i never lost to you in any tournament. :amazed: Now there will always be a shit talking rivalry between north and south but there are no facts except tomo winning 2 tourneys.

[Bob Sagat]

i got a SF booklet from around when super street fighter II first hit the arcades.
it features a full ranking list of us players that year in SF II Turbo.
tomo ohira is at the top of the list. and theres a full 2 pages about how his unbeatable guile rewrote the tier list.

I got curious and typed in Tomo Ohira on youtube.
Found these two gems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OEXzKk5gkQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0sh_ARERII&feature=related <No one can beat this man's mullet. Also, was the DP supposed to be executed in the wrong direction in that version?

[A-Dhalsim]

Lol this thread is like a fraekin year old. Jeff always tryin to pop out of nowhere to talk about the times as if LA was the only peeps around. The truth of the matter is, Both top players from north and south went back and fourth with a mixture in top 8. SF2 and CE majors were run by capcom. Tomo LOST WW and won CE up in nor cali (nor cali took all other places.

With Hyper Fighting...La and Nor cali did NOT play each other during the whole entire phase of this game. We each had a major, Tomo won down south and Osaki took 1st in nor cali.

When Super came, nobody really gave a flying fuck about that game so who cares. We did have 1 major and Tomo won via Watson throwing the game to him and Nor cali got 3rd.

ST = COMPLETE NOR CALI DOMINANCE! So cali lost Tomo, he got so rocked by watson like 200 games straight and gave up SF. Watson was new champion and got raped by nor calis honda players =D

So to put it blunt..Tomo and Osaki were the only real champions that were FAR beyond everyones level up until ST. Once ST hit, everyone was at god status and Tomo and Osaki just couldnt take losing so much so they quit SF all together. Meanwhile myself, Choi, Nelson, Watson, Schaffer, Thao and Valle pretty much went on to leading So Cal and Nor Cali.

Alot of people quit during Alpha1 (that was all Watts and CHoi)

A2 = Valle (Myself and SChafer being the only fools to beat Valle in a tourney =P) but honestly, that was Valles shining moment, nobody could really touch him

A3 = ALL ME BABY =) til nationals...then Valle took nationals but didnt really take any other tourney after. Choi did not come up in A3 til the very end. Once CC's and crouch cancles were discovered the game just dissappeared with a small group still playing trying to claim they owned it.

SF3 = Valle, choi and Eddie

SF2i = valle and Eddie

SF3 = Hsien and now Pyro/Wong (dont really know my history on SF3)

CVS1 - I have to say this is Nor calis game. We came up with Nak rush down. Nuff said. It started with me, choi nelson rockin everyone and then Rickys first transition to SF from Marvel and he quickly became unstoppable with Nak. Nelson ended up claiming that game and winning B5 (or b4 one of those)

Cvs2 = Japan , please someone rise up and stop them. Honestly though, Norcali AGAIN, completely dominated this game for a majority of its life and are still pretty much on top. It started with Me wrecking everyones face pre-RC. Once RC came out it switched to Choi and Ricky owning. Now we have a lot of great players, but i think a majority of the top ones are still from nor cali (Choi, Buk, Ricky, Kim)

So let the TRUTH BE HEARD!!

Cole

[TheGrape1]

lol, this thread is hilarious!

Fuck all the dumb shit. Schaefer can talk from the fake pulpit all he wants.

Here's the thing like that cat from Seattle was saying. Top players play a LOT. To contradict, there are natural players who don't practice like that.

Schaefer will never play again because he hasn't the capacity. Too many games jumble his head and he can't practice for the better part of his day anymore so he isn't that good. He was just very very very trained.

To that I say, so what? A lot of players never realize their potential because they have other endeavors. The players that can still play in their adult lives are the best. The rest are just obsessives for the time that they play.

Great will always be great.

If any of the old school guys are really good, put up the matches for a side evo event. Nelson vs.Schaefer, Cole vs. Thao etc. Bragging rights can last 2 years and then do it again.

It's funny but non-sensical to rewrite history. There's no need to speculate on history when who is better can STILL be proven beyond mere words.

[shoultzula]

ST = COMPLETE NOR CALI DOMINANCE! So cali lost Tomo, he got so rocked by watson like 200 games straight and gave up SF. Watson was new champion and got raped by nor calis honda players =D

So to put it blunt..Tomo and Osaki were the only real champions that were FAR beyond everyones level up until ST. Once ST hit, everyone was at god status and Tomo and Osaki just couldnt take losing so much so they quit SF all together. Meanwhile myself, Choi, Nelson, Watson, Schaffer, Thao and Valle pretty much went on to leading So Cal and Nor Cali.



damn, so watts put it to tomo like that?

what was it about ST that made tomo\osaki beatable? did the rest of the competition eventually catch up to them?

[dog-face]

They should add Exhibition Hyper Fighting to EVO events, and have Norcal face Socal.

Would Tomo reemerge? Would Osaki reaapear? Either way, watching Wolfe vs Watts, or Nelson vs Schaeffer would be awesome.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

So Tomoz got punked into submission? Damn, that is vicious.

[goodm0urning]

Would Tomo reemerge? Would Osaki reaapear? Either way, watching Wolfe vs Watts, or Nelson vs Schaeffer would be awesome.Though this would be great to see for us youngin's, this isn't like in a western when the cowboy digs out his six gun for one last gunfight. This is a video game, which many people have moved on from with the advancement of adulthood. Who knows? Many of these guys might have even lost their chops by now.

[Penance]

they may have moved on but you know they still think about the good ol' days when they ruled the arcade.

[Sabin]

coles the homie, but i cant agree with his wc bias in the thread. still tho <3


CVS1 - I have to say this is Nor calis game. We came up with Nak rush down. Nuff said. It started with me, choi nelson rockin everyone and then Rickys first transition to SF from Marvel and he quickly became unstoppable with Nak. Nelson ended up claiming that game and winning B5 (or b4 one of those)

nelson didnt win b5, did you forget he lost to chikyuu, as did ricky, in epic fail for the usa that year. :(
as for early cvs1...dont you remember when you and nelson came over here for nec1 and you both lost to me? ricky held it down for norcal, as did choi though later on in the year, thats for sure no denying that, but i had a winning record over dangerous crew in that game :P