KOF XII loke test ?

[X20ASTRIKEFREEDOM]

Got this from Cyberfanatix:

More informations on June 27 in the Taito "private room" or SNK-P could present the first infos.

Quickie translation summary from my currently broken mind:
What we know -
It'll be on Taito X hardware.
Cast is unknown save for Ash and Betty.
This will wrap up the Tales of Ash trilogy.

When will we get the good news of the first casted characters? Possibly at a private room showing on June 27 in Osaka. Or it could be at the meeting on July 1st where information about MI RegA and KoF 98 will be presented for PS2. Perhaps they'll give indications on XII at an assembly compromised of KoF fans? Wait and see..

[Dark Geese]

Good to hear.

[nothingxs]

Got this from Cyberfanatix:

More informations on June 27 in the Taito "private room" or SNK-P could present the first infos.

Quickie translation summary from my currently broken mind:
What we know -
It'll be on Taito X hardware.
Cast is unknown save for Ash and Betty.
This will wrap up the Tales of Ash trilogy.

When will we get the good news of the first casted characters? Possibly at a private room showing on June 27 in Osaka. Or it could be at the meeting on July 1st where information about MI RegA and KoF 98 will be presented for PS2. Perhaps they'll give indications on XII at an assembly compromised of KoF fans? Wait and see..

pretty good information. i can't wait to see what they've done with the game so far.

[FallingEdge]

Sorry if this is old, but what are the chances of XII coming out to the PS2?

[X20ASTRIKEFREEDOM]

Sorry if this is old, but what are the chances of XII coming out to the PS2?

very good

[Logos]

I told you, Andy. Eat it! :wink:

[Mr. Mamation]

i hate ash, will he die in this one?

[Edpachi]

can't wait to see more

[Bob Poundmax]

I want screenshots NOW!!!.

And I hope they dont take out frames if its on the PS2 because of hardware differences.

[Johneh]

I hope they say fuck the PS2 and release it PS3/360 so we can play it online. But that's not going to happen.

[yungb254]

good news, but is the ps3 and 360 really that 2d friendly? I'd rather own it on ps2.

[Sonic_Reaper]

Am reminded about the big commotion on snk-capcom after some confusion about a location test which never actually happened or was advertised.

[rukawa_kaede]

I'm dying to see the new sprites

[the_judge]

good news
but to me it sounds like another way for SNKp to have us at the edge of excitement, then put the smackdown on us.

I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[JubeiNinja69]

sprites will be hi res. can't wait.

[Wellman]

i hate ash, will he die in this one?

Ash is the best thing to happen to the KOF story in forever.

Not to mention, he is one of the few charge characters, I actually can use. A main character that is a charge character is instantly better than a shoto clone.

Screw you sir! Screw you and your sprite hating ways.

[Gorehound]

Just as long as they do a lot of location test so we won't have to struggle with 2-3 characters that dominate every character like fucking Gato/Kula, especially Gato!

Look what they did with NGBC, they tested that game so much, that all characters were playable even though there were top tiers, we always see a variety of characters making it to the finals :tup:

[Koll]

...You people.........there will never be a totally perfect kof!!!!!.....As long as Kim and King are in it I am fine.

[Humbag]

if they wanna distribute this hirez, 360/ps3 all the way


heres hoping for a us release as well

[Ouroborus]

Ash is the best thing to happen to the KOF story in forever.

Not to mention, he is one of the few charge characters, I actually can use. A main character that is a charge character is instantly better than a shoto clone.

Screw you sir! Screw you and your sprite hating ways.

w0rd.

kyo is the one that needs to die

[Hyperhal]

I just wanna see Rose kick some ass and Adel get his evil intent on.

.....And Shingo train Iori.

[ToyRobotTerror]

Am reminded about the big commotion on snk-capcom after some confusion about a location test which never actually happened or was advertised.
All thanks to the stinger report and neo-arcadia

[polarity]

Just as long as they do a lot of location test so we won't have to struggle with 2-3 characters that dominate every character like fucking Gato/Kula, especially Gato!

Look what they did with NGBC, they tested that game so much, that all characters were playable even though there were top tiers, we always see a variety of characters making it to the finals :tup:

They tested KOFXI just about as much, IIRC :confused:

No matter how much testing you do, you're never going to achieve a well-balanced game without a lot of revisions unless you're incredibly lucky or willing to put YEARS into testing (which isn't financially viable). The problem is the arcade format isn't really viable for balancing and re-balancing a game unless you implement online patching, which IS possible by now and really some arcade manufacturer needs to step up and implement it.

[bill_rizer]

sounds good, needs less cock teasing and more real info.

Also to the guy that says Kyo needs to die, you can burn in my crimson flames.

[DevilJin 01]

They need to bring Sagat back.

[Hyperhal]

They need to bring Sagat back.

I see what you did there.

[Violent By Design]

They need to kill off Ryo Sagazaki

Now that would be a plot twist

[Hyperhal]

Oh, we can't forget the obligatory "Rock better fucking be in this one."

Animations better be on par with garou, and sprites better be on par with arcana.

[vapulus]

Oh, we can't forget the obligatory "Rock better fucking be in this one."

Animations better be on par with garou, and sprites better be on par with arcana.

If this is even vaguely true, i'm on it like a rocket.

[Henaki]

Oh, we can't forget the obligatory "Rock better fucking be in this one."

Animations better be on par with garou, and sprites better be on par with arcana.

Considering the incredible amount of RAM you'd need for that. It's not happening. The game has to load 6 different characters into memory, you'd need at least 64megs of ram dedicated to characters alone. Arcade machines let alone consoles do not have this.

[Hyperhal]

If thats not possible, then they could at least give us the arcana sprites, just not the ggxx animations please.

Anyways I'm guessing KoFXII is gonna be released sometime august or september. XI was released in '05 of august if I remember correctly, and they said they wanted to make a game every couple of years, so '07 august/september seems doable at this point.

Another one, please have Ash take Kyo's flame and have Shingo somehow take it back for himself?

Oh yeah, Kensou better have a good place in the storyline with dem powarz

[the_judge]

If thats not possible, then they could at least give us the arcana sprites, just not the ggxx animations please.

Anyways I'm guessing KoFXII is gonna be released sometime august or september. XI was released in '05 of august if I remember correctly, and they said they wanted to make a game every couple of years, so '07 august/september seems doable at this point.

Another one, please have Ash take Kyo's flame and have Shingo somehow take it back for himself?

Oh yeah, Kensou better have a good place in the storyline with dem powarz

I agree with everything in this post.
Kensou must be important, Ash takes Kyo's powers.
and Andy needs to get off his ass and join this one.

[bill_rizer]

What ya talkin bout Andy is banging Mai 24/7, Id stay home too.

[4649]

am i the only one that doesnt like the whole idea of ash taking kyo's powers?
all i'm saying is that if gay-boy does take his powers, kyo should have a wicked new style, like jin when he changed his style up in T4
he should just do straight up boxing like burai in BBB and beat the shit out of you

[MannyKal]

i suspect k' will have more of an integral part....
his hand is one of the ones turned green by ash's flames in XI's intro, right?
along with kyo, iori?

i agree with the kensou supporters, he better step up....
or at least finally bang athena....

[zer0_858]

If he takes his powers does that mean we will have 2 Shingos XD

[AlphaDragoon02]

i suspect k' will have more of an integral part....
his hand is one of the ones turned green by ash's flames in XI's intro, right?
along with kyo, iori?

i agree with the kensou supporters, he better step up....
or at least finally bang athena....

If we go by 2003's storyline (where Chin wanted K' to watch out for Athena), then he will be banging her instead of Kensou. He's Kyo Lite so Athena'd probably be all for it. :rofl:

If that did happen, I would laugh.

[Shadowcuz]

am i the only one that doesnt like the whole idea of ash taking kyo's powers?
all i'm saying is that if gay-boy does take his powers, kyo should have a wicked new style, like jin when he changed his style up in T4
he should just do straight up boxing like burai in BBB and beat the shit out of you

hell yes, i agree with everything in this post:cool:

[Zinac]

Considering the incredible amount of RAM you'd need for that. It's not happening. The game has to load 6 different characters into memory, you'd need at least 64megs of ram dedicated to characters alone. Arcade machines let alone consoles do not have this.

Have they stated this game is tag team?

Besides the Taito X2 can have 2 gigs of ram. 2 gigs of ram = 2048 megs apx. = 341 megs for each character. Now thats about 171megs if they take up a gig, and 86 megs if they take up 512 megs in total (which would be practical to use on both PS3 and xbox 360 with compression techniques)

[FallingEdge]

Doesn't Chaos Breaker run on Taito X2 system? They have 3 on 3 matches. They should be able to do that for XII.

[vapulus]

Have they stated this game is tag team?

Besides the Taito X2 can have 2 gigs of ram. 2 gigs of ram = 2048 megs apx. = 341 megs for each character. Now thats about 171megs if they take up a gig, and 86 megs if they take up 512 megs in total (which would be practical to use on both PS3 and xbox 360 with compression techniques)

Beat me to the math.

But yeah, there's no (hardware) reaon they couldn't pull off that quality of artwork. Besides the history saying they have little spriting/artwork talent. =) Maybe they have this huge pile of spriting talent that hasn't shown its face yet! *hopeful*

[Dark Geese]

What SNK doesnt have in its favor for new sprites-

But then again vapulus they do have a sign that says "Now hiring talented artists" for KOFXII.

Or had one.

What SNK has working in its favor for new sprites-

AOF3's sprites..dont tell me they cant make great sprites if they try..psshh :rolleyes:..tell me that and I will tell you to look at AOF3..

Case closed.

[Mixah]

Sounds like sex

*subscribes*

[Rhio2k]

What ya talkin bout Andy is banging Mai 24/7, Id stay home too.

Are we talking about the same Andy? Andy BOGARD? He ain't gay, but he is scared to death of pussy. Any time they may have gotten it on, Mai probably started a sparring match, got serious on the sly and kicked his ass so bad he couldn't resist, then raped him.

[vapulus]

What SNK doesnt have in its favor for new sprites-

But then again vapulus they do have a sign that says "Now hiring talented artists" for KOFXII.

Or had one.

What SNK has working in its favor for new sprites-

AOF3's sprites..dont tell me they cant make great sprites if they try..psshh :rolleyes:..tell me that and I will tell you to look at AOF3..

Case closed.


Meh, even the AOF3 sprites look akward to me. *shrug* Some of the character look like they're going to fall over when they walk. =) Granted, they're loads better than most of SNK's other offerings.
matter of personal opinion, i guess.
I've always LIKED the stuff SNK has done, but I've always felt they looked doujin. Not completely untalented, but not what I would consider professional 2D sprite work, either. Their games were never really about the visuals, though. Truth be told, SNK's character designs are my favorite of any fighting games, it's just that the executions of those designs in-game always felt a little lacking. If they revamp their visual style a bit, they could easily turn into my favorite (current) fighting game company.

So THAT to me is what's exciting. I want to love SNK games, again. It was all so hit or miss in the older games. Vanessa is animated well, so was Angel, but goodness, watching certain characters fight made the game look like rock 'em sock 'em robots.

I have hope that SNK will win me over, again. It seems to me like they're trying to overhaul their style and get modern in one fell swoop.

[AlphaDragoon02]

Are we talking about the same Andy? Andy BOGARD? He ain't gay, but he is scared to death of pussy. Any time they may have gotten it on, Mai probably started a sparring match, got serious on the sly and kicked his ass so bad he couldn't resist, then raped him.

LOL, yeah. Andy fucking HIDES from Mai. He considers her ass a rabid fangirl at this point (even though they are supposed to be in a relationship) and pulls a fucking "NINJA VANISH" when she's around.

Methinks he wants out but doesn't want to face the consequences of telling her. :rofl:

Oh yeah, and like I said before, K' and Athena would be funny as hell, unexpected as all get out, and cool because of it. Ain't gonna happen (since nobody in KOF actually starts relationships, they're either in one from the get-go or never at all) but eh. Ryo and King are like the ONLY people to have romantic development that actually stays on to the next storyline in the entire series.

BTW, those bastards need to tell us what King's actual name is already. It's probably French (seeing as she is and all) and probably sounds WAY the hell better.

[the_judge]

Are we talking about the same Andy? Andy BOGARD? He ain't gay, but he is scared to death of pussy. Any time they may have gotten it on, Mai probably started a sparring match, got serious on the sly and kicked his ass so bad he couldn't resist, then raped him.

I'm going to ignore this post on behalf of my religion.:wtf:

Meh, even the AOF3 sprites look akward to me. *shrug* Some of the character look like they're going to fall over when they walk. =) Granted, they're loads better than most of SNK's other offerings.
matter of personal opinion, i guess.
I've always LIKED the stuff SNK has done, but I've always felt they looked doujin. Not completely untalented, but not what I would consider professional 2D sprite work, either. Their games were never really about the visuals, though. Truth be told, SNK's character designs are my favorite of any fighting games, it's just that the executions of those designs in-game always felt a little lacking. If they revamp their visual style a bit, they could easily turn into my favorite (current) fighting game company.

So THAT to me is what's exciting. I want to love SNK games, again. It was all so hit or miss in the older games. Vanessa is animated well, so was Angel, but goodness, watching certain characters fight made the game look like rock 'em sock 'em robots.

I have hope that SNK will win me over, again. It seems to me like they're trying to overhaul their style and get modern in one fell swoop.

Give em a chance, they try every year to give us something.
some are failures, some are hits.

Otherwise it creates a lot of stress, being 1 of the last 2d-fighters alive.

[ruthless_nash]

ironically, the snk game lthats most beloved by the general fighting game community is the one closest to street fighter in style (MOTW for those wondering).

I always wonder what the popularity of snk games would be like if they were basically a SF game, but with snk characters. maybe something like cvs2 button config and style, with kof quick hop, roll etc etc and just snk characters.

[Dark Geese]

By the general population? Hahah..you mean by the Street Fighter population my friend..

Which means in particular-AMERICA.

Why? Because America was conquered by Capcom first..thus if it plays like SF they will give it a try...

Around the world to THIS DAY KOF2002 and 98 are like the most played SNK games..

So general fighting game population you MUST be talking about is America.

[Zinac]

By the general population? Hahah..you mean by the Street Fighter population my friend..


SRK is whipped by MOTW.

I love KOF 98 btw.

[Weecho]

All I'm waiting for is some screenshots of the game.

[the_judge]

SRK is whipped by MOTW.

I love KOF 98 btw.

XI and NGBC are more popular than every1 thinks.
But as far as my knowledge goes 98, 2k2, and MOTW are top.

[Dandy J]

The only thing motw has in common with sf really that's noteable is invincible/fast supers, whereas on [old] kof (98 being a prime example) the number invincible supers across the cast are barely out of the double digits. Other than that the gameplay is closer than real bout than anything, which some people say is kinda close to sf I guess but w/e.

Honestly I think in terms of stuff not old school, ngbc is the closest to sf.

[Nokato]

http://www.geocities.jp/neogeogamers/

[AlphaDragoon02]

If it's real (which could very well be suspect due to the sprites not looking much different at a glance)...

RICK FROM REAL BOUT. FUCKING FINALLY.

[Nokato]

On second thought, I think these sprites are fake...one of the images looks like the background is a photo...sorry just thought I found something people are anxiously waiting for. Guess those pics are fake.

[Dark Geese]

Guys thats a fake..we been seen that pic a while back..but I do hope Rosa and Rick are legit..oh boy..

:lovin:

[AlphaDragoon02]

Guys thats a fake..we been seen that pic a while back..but I do hope Rosa and Rick are legit..oh boy..

:lovin:

I agree. I think Rick was way cooler than Vanessa was, which of course the rest of SRK will try and lynch me for saying.

But her lame-ass "punch you until her hands hurt and she shakes them" super she had in previous KOFs (dunno about XI as I haven't played it) is GARBAGE compared to the godlike Hajime no Ippo-esque Gaia Breath Rick had.

[Dark Geese]

I agree...I like Vanessa too but I want to see some change after a while..

Anymore Rosa fans out there??????????????????????? :wonder:

[Gorehound]

Guys thats a fake..we been seen that pic a while back..but I do hope Rosa and Rick are legit..oh boy..

:lovin:

Oh yeah, I remember those pics from a long time ago!

Having Rosa in the game would be sweet :bgrin:

Bring back FOXY!!!

[Keits]

Honestly, with today's system capabilities, i dont see why we are taking characters OUT.

If we are redrawning everything, I understand... but the final dream match should have had every sprite to appear in KoF together.

[Dark Geese]

He makes a valid point..

Yes I want Foxy back in too..but you know some of her unblockable shit would be taken out correct???

Yeah but she would probably still be tops lol.

[Wellman]

Fuck Rick, that boy was like Barlog of Native Americans, huge stereotype. No matter how true some of that shit was.

All I really want to know is how badly did they nerf Oswald, Kula and Gato. I hoping for a Dou Lon nerfing, where they are still playable with no radical changes (not so much with Kula's LDM, get rid of that shit). But who knows maybe they will invent some new broken stuff and put it in.

[Koll]

Bring back Franco Bash :(!

[Violent Ryo]

but the dream match(KOF 13) should have had every sprite to appear in KoF together.


I've been saying that for a while. With XI they should just concentrate on the main cast that are either standards or story related. There should be no more than 8 teams (24 characters which is still a lot for a game from scratch).

For the dreammatch bring EVERY King of Fighters contestant ever.

[PHARAON]

Haha, KOF 12 isn't even close from being released and there are already discussions about KOF XIII :yawn:

About the next dreammatch, it's possible that the whole cast makes it.
Even costume variations (Chin, Clark, Kyo etc ...).

[Atb_555]

I'm interested to see how Iori is going to play like without his flames. They should give him his special striker costume from 2000 and play completely different.

Ash is most likely going to go after Kyo and K' may also intervene.

[bill_rizer]

For the dreammatch bring EVERY King of Fighters contestant ever.

Although it sounds cool to have every single person in KOF in one game, that would actually turn out to be crap, mugen style.

You would end up with a game like MvC2 with 60 plus characters and having 3 or 4 that are broken to hell.

Id rather just have the best teams in KOF history, which would pretty much be 98+2k2.

[the_judge]

Saisyu and Rugal will pwn.

[KrsJin]

By the general population? Hahah..you mean by the Street Fighter population my friend..

Which means in particular-AMERICA.

Why? Because America was conquered by Capcom first..thus if it plays like SF they will give it a try...

Around the world to THIS DAY KOF2002 and 98 are like the most played SNK games..

So general fighting game population you MUST be talking about is America.

South America and Korea don't count. America obly. Japan can come too.

:smile:

[Wellman]

Give Me Angel Or Give Me Mai!

[Hyperhal]

You know, as long as they further Shingo to be a more important part of the plot dealing with Iori/Kyo, I'll be happy.

[kof4life]

Fuck Rick, that boy was like Barlog of Native Americans, huge stereotype. No matter how true some of that shit was.


True, he was a bit stereotypical, but it's hard to deny how fun he was to play as. More enjoyable than Vanessa IMO and not as hard to learn, as long as he's kept as close to his RB version as possible. Ah,waht the heck, I'll be happy so long as he's in there!

[AlphaDragoon02]

True, he was a bit stereotypical, but it's hard to deny how fun he was to play as. More enjoyable than Vanessa IMO and not as hard to learn, as long as he's kept as close to his RB version as possible. Ah,waht the heck, I'll be happy so long as he's in there!

This is truth.

[Dark Geese]

You gotta love his saying when he dies "Screw you!" "How" many stereoptypical Native Americans say that??

Yes he'd howl and shit, but at least he wouldnt say "How" and hold up the T.Hawk hand..or even worse..Billy Two Moons from Tattoo Assassinss..

"Heya heya heya heya!" :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:

[kenmastersX]

You gotta love his saying when he dies "Screw you!" "How" many stereoptypical Native Americans say that??

Last time I checked, Rick says "Good luck to you!" as in good luck in advancing the tournament. But hey, I didn't think Mary say "I shall return!" when she loses until I looked it up. :p

[Logos]

He's not nearly as bad as Chief Thunder from Killer Instinct. Now that guy was a walking stereotype.

[ToyRobotTerror]

how do i wishlist?

EDIT:

We need to see more commercials of the logo for ultimate cocktease success.

[Dark Shinryuken]

As much as I love Vanessa, Rick would be an awesome addition.

I'd rather Angel came back though. I would also appreciate it if Adel played more like Rugal. I've always wanted to play Rugal. It's obvious SNK wants to pay homage to Rugal through his son, they should improve upon it in the next game already. Wee need rock in there simply because we'll probably never see Geese again unless it's another dream match.

[Mr. Mamation]

Ash is the best thing to happen to the KOF story in forever.

Not to mention, he is one of the few charge characters, I actually can use. A main character that is a charge character is instantly better than a shoto clone.

Screw you sir! Screw you and your sprite hating ways.

i like almost every character in kof because of their wonderful character design...
i hate ash a lot
i especially like the many woman with large breast.

[Mr. Mamation]

Guys thats a fake..we been seen that pic a while back..but I do hope Rosa and Rick are legit..oh boy..

:lovin:

i swore i saw lin in there
PLEASE BE IN THERE

[PimpC]

all I want to know is how nerfed oswald is going to be....i think on par with duo lon from 2k3 to XI....a screenshot would be fucking nice in the meantime though.

[Rengoku]

duolon in 2k3 was BROKEN
in XI is BALANCED

the only thing i hated in xi is his ldm that can be save shifted..

oswald in XII have to use a stock for the ACE and many other minor fixex to its setups

btw i would that they fix the brokeness of each LDM too much damage from them and too many chances to land due to otg or juggle anywhere

remove that shit pls

[The Switcher]

He's not nearly as bad as Chief Thunder from Killer Instinct. Now that guy was a walking stereotype.

Cheif Thunder rules! I will hear no Cheif Thunder slander.

But I mean, it is Killer Instinct, EVERYONE was a stereotype, so it didn't really matter.

But there are far worse Native American fighters than Thunder... Nightwolf and the G. Falcon guy or whatever from Breakers, immediately spring to mind.

[Return of Shiki]

No, Rick DEFINITELY says "SCREW YOUUUU!"

[ToyRobotTerror]

So how do you guys think kof shading will look in high res?

[Dark Geese]

Thats Condor in Breakers..how many Native Americans you know wear Leather Chaps??

:rofl: :confused:

[FullMetalRoss]

duolon in 2k3 was BROKEN
in XI is BALANCED

the only thing i hated in xi is his ldm that can be save shifted..

oswald in XII have to use a stock for the ACE and many other minor fixex to its setups

btw i would that they fix the brokeness of each LDM too much damage from them and too many chances to land due to otg or juggle anywhere

remove that shit pls

I don't know why you'd want to change oswald besides removing a few bugs like the unblockable. The ace already has a big handicap in how it can be punished if saving falled during certain setups many times its better to just do the normal ender because it is punishable. If I were going to fix anything I would just lower the ace damage a little not make it take meter if it took meter and had the same setups I'd just do an easier combo into dm that does around the same amount of damage.

LDM's being changed would sort of ruin the whole leader dynamic and make them kind of useless like alot of the hsdm's from 2k2 (yeah I know some of them are good and what not) I think it's more like just a shift from BC combos to figuring out ways to effectively ldm combo and not have the damage scaling system (which I think is well implemented) kill them. There are only a few ldm's I can think of that actually do tons within combos, and most of those characters are middle or low tier. The one notable exception being Gato who if I was going to fix some stuff I'd fix him, by lowering his overall damage and taking away some of his sick options.


Though you gotta admit they stayed pretty damn true to his garou awesomeness in XI, Gato is just too strong to nerf, hahah.

Oh and quick ender - the whole ldm versus BC combo could also be whether getting big damage should also come with some sort of execution barrier in your opinion, personally I don't really think it matters one way or the other since most competitive players will learn the big damage stuff whether it takes execution or not.

[Rengoku]

I don't know why you'd want to change oswald besides removing a few bugs like the unblockable. The ace already has a big handicap in how it can be punished if saving falled during certain setups many times its better to just do the normal ender because it is punishable. If I were going to fix anything I would just lower the ace damage a little not make it take meter if it took meter and had the same setups I'd just do an easier combo into dm that does around the same amount of damage.

the ace can be punished but won't change the fact that take away too much lifebar
and won't suffer damage scaling
if you just lower the damage you change the whole ace purpose as chain ender
remember 2k2 angel and her DM only as circle chain finisher

LDM's being changed would sort of ruin the whole leader dynamic and make them kind of useless like alot of the hsdm's from 2k2 (yeah I know some of them are good and what not) I think it's more like just a shift from BC combos to figuring out ways to effectively ldm combo and not have the damage scaling system (which I think is well implemented) kill them. There are only a few ldm's I can think of that actually do tons within combos, and most of those characters are middle or low tier. The one notable exception being Gato who if I was going to fix some stuff I'd fix him, by lowering his overall damage and taking away some of his sick options.

some hsdms in 2k2 are there only because they have to
they never thinked of them as usable (i still wonder how that game had such wonderful gameplay)

ldm system is good, ok
heavy damage only from 2 stocks and only one character can use it

on the other side you have shit like
jump B land LDM (every juggle anywhere)
2 ldm in combo (K')
knockdown then OTG ldm (malin)

it's a shame that in a 47 character roster you're forced to pick those ldm only because they're that powerful and not having them would mean too much less chances to land damage


Though you gotta admit they stayed pretty damn true to his garou awesomeness in XI, Gato is just too strong to nerf, hahah.

MOTW gato in XI would have benn balanced
XI gato is unbalanced, too high mobility and air control in a game where both are really important

Oh and quick ender - the whole ldm versus BC combo could also be whether getting big damage should also come with some sort of execution barrier in your opinion, personally I don't really think it matters one way or the other since most competitive players will learn the big damage stuff whether it takes execution or not.

the whole BC engine is a more complex and it marry perfectly with each character

god tiers beside Kim don't have pratical combos or don't get too much advantage out of them
just think of a 2k2 athena or billy that can land 80% damage in addition to their other options
in XI you have gato that not only control space and have godly priority and many options, he can also land tons of damage even from a guard crush if opponent manage to don't allow him to hit
the same is for kula

as ending note, you can have the strongest execution, but landing BC is not so easy as an OTG or juggle anywhere LDM

[rogueyoshi]

the ace can be punished but won't change the fact that take away too much lifebar
and won't suffer damage scaling
if you just lower the damage you change the whole ace purpose as chain ender
remember 2k2 angel and her DM only as circle chain finisher



some hsdms in 2k2 are there only because they have to
they never thinked of them as usable (i still wonder how that game had such wonderful gameplay)

ldm system is good, ok
heavy damage only from 2 stocks and only one character can use it

on the other side you have shit like
jump B land LDM (every juggle anywhere)
2 ldm in combo (K')
knockdown then OTG ldm (malin)

it's a shame that in a 47 character roster you're forced to pick those ldm only because they're that powerful and not having them would mean too much less chances to land damage




MOTW gato in XI would have benn balanced
XI gato is unbalanced, too high mobility and air control in a game where both are really important



the whole BC engine is a more complex and it marry perfectly with each character

god tiers beside Kim don't have pratical combos or don't get too much advantage out of them
just think of a 2k2 athena or billy that can land 80% damage in addition to their other options
in XI you have gato that not only control space and have godly priority and many options, he can also land tons of damage even from a guard crush if opponent manage to don't allow him to hit
the same is for kula

as ending note, you can have the strongest execution, but landing BC is not so easy as an OTG or juggle anywhere LDM
rengoku should get rep++ for this post.

[FullMetalRoss]

Well I can't think of a single juggle anywhere ldm that does that nuch damage. The big damage ones I can think (as in big damage during a combo) of are Athena or Shingo or Gato none of which are juggle anywhere if I remember.

The malin thing is dumb, if you get hit by OTG hammer you are a scrub so get the fuck out, tech roll is your friend use it or die. K double super is also kind of dumb, I think K is a good character I use him (though pretty poorly at the moment) but double ldm isn't worth the time or the meter, since you won't really ever kill a character with it where you couldn't have done something else, plus four stock for a combo that isn't guaranteed kill is pretty stupid in my opinion.

Kula's ldm is the best juggle any where dm the only one that comes close is oswald and his isn't even that close as it's a charge so who gives a shit since for the most part you have to be looking for it and you have better options. Kula's luckily doesnt' really do much more damage then just doing her sdm icicle it's just a little easier to setup. woo! Kula has alot of stuff outside of ldm that makes her better.

Now for the ace thing, mostly cause I don't play 2k2, is angel's dm finisher the unblockable one? If so I don't think that's a very good comparision for ace cause if it's the one I'm thinking of people pull that shit out all the time. As for the damage thing, thats what I was talking about with just using a little meter for an easier combo that does the same damage. Of course this still stems from my opinion of while Ace is good it's very overrated and not as crazy as people say (of course I haven't played against an oswald player whose main game was Ace setups say with oswald as a second character or what not)

I'm not gonna touch that bc mode stuff cause I'm just not experienced enough to get into a real debate over bc mode I'll just let it sit with one thing, much like bc mode ldm's all the top tier would still be top tier if it wasn't there but LDM's make more characters playable and aren't that scary they are still in my opinion easier to execute yet less useful bc mode.

I think judging by what you said in general we both agree about gato being super annoying in KOF XI and needs some tone down much more than ldm's or ace.

This is a good discussion so please feel free to respond!

Oh and if something you or saying or I am saying isn't coming across, I chalk it up to language barrier. So if I sound angry or attacking I don't mean it : ).

[Rengoku]

Well I can't think of a single juggle anywhere ldm that does that nuch damage. The big damage ones I can think (as in big damage during a combo) of are Athena or Shingo or Gato none of which are juggle anywhere if I remember.

i've already told about jump B then ldm setups
have you ever suffered a sweep into LDM?

k' kula kim and others can do this shit, and it's even hitconfirmable since the cancel window is pretty large
and it's always more than half bar taken away
this really sucks


The malin thing is dumb, if you get hit by OTG hammer you are a scrub so get the fuck out, tech roll is your friend use it or die.

you surely know that some moves won't allow a tech
for example just pick terry

hcfB ffB ffB tag to malin then ldm

wow


K double super is also kind of dumb, I think K is a good character I use him (though pretty poorly at the moment) but double ldm isn't worth the time or the meter, since you won't really ever kill a character with it where you couldn't have done something else, plus four stock for a combo that isn't guaranteed kill is pretty stupid in my opinion.

after some setups or tags K' can kill the opponent
remember that still have the 5 air qcbB juggle after ldm

but even if it's not worth the waste (heavily arguable)
what kind crap is to land 2 ldm in combo?


Kula's ldm is the best juggle any where dm the only one that comes close is oswald and his isn't even that close as it's a charge so who gives a shit since for the most part you have to be looking for it and you have better options. Kula's luckily doesnt' really do much more damage then just doing her sdm icicle it's just a little easier to setup. woo! Kula has alot of stuff outside of ldm that makes her better.

remember that oswald while guarding, so the lever is in backward position charging the motion, can simply hop prevent with standing A then LDM
that is too much damage taken from only an hop


Now for the ace thing, mostly cause I don't play 2k2, is angel's dm finisher the unblockable one? If so I don't think that's a very good comparision for ace cause if it's the one I'm thinking of people pull that shit out all the time. As for the damage thing, thats what I was talking about with just using a little meter for an easier combo that does the same damage. Of course this still stems from my opinion of while Ace is good it's very overrated and not as crazy as people say (of course I haven't played against an oswald player whose main game was Ace setups say with oswald as a second character or what not)

angel's finisher in 2k2 is blockable but deal blockstun and have a nice amount of frame advantage
this DM of her is the only one and it comes only as circle finisher

oswald have other 2 great DMs to rely on
that ace is only a broken addition without wasting a stock

yes we can argue about the difficuilties to pull it out
but once you learn 3-4 solo setups you're done

once oswald tag in he have 100% guaranteed ace finisher
(check that old vid over youtube)

after a corner stun he can go for the dfA qcfB qcfA qcfB qcfE that is 100% guaranteed half lifebar damage


I'm not gonna touch that bc mode stuff cause I'm just not experienced enough to get into a real debate over bc mode I'll just let it sit with one thing, much like bc mode ldm's all the top tier would still be top tier if it wasn't there but LDM's make more characters playable and aren't that scary they are still in my opinion easier to execute yet less useful bc mode.

surely some LDM help in raising characters from bottom status
but how many?

you can do a guaranteed blue mary one on an incoming character for 70% damage
but how far can you go with only that in a match against an expert?

shingo can solo kill in corner with a supercancel ldm
but you can rely over this while he don't have so many options to hit?


I think judging by what you said in general we both agree about gato being super annoying in KOF XI and needs some tone down much more than ldm's or ace.

sure
but i'm saying that LDMs and their properties help the brokeness of a top tier

[4649]

^this man knows his shit, why is he negged so badly? jesus

[Nokato]

I swear...if I don't see some damn pics of this fucking game in the next day or so... I know its a private testing but damn..cellphone that shit.

[arstal]

Actually that K' double LDM is worth it. Last tourney I went to the sheer amount of time it took caused me to get peaced out at a tourney...

Does the sweep/juggle stuff work in arrange or just arcade?

[FullMetalRoss]

I've had someone sweep ldm me, hell I do it, but I sitll don't think its that big a deal. But I guess I don't really have more arguement for you it just sort of comes down to my opinions versus yours beacuse there are plenty of things that are just as broken as sweep ldm in say 98 but 98 isn't looked down on in the same way. Oh well.

Oh and of course I know there are unrollable setups for the malin thing, I just don't think that those combos are such a big deal as it helps her ldm scale making not as bad plus how often do you see malin with ldm? It's popular among lower ranked play but not from better players.

edit: Oh and as for the Ace, I still don't think it's that bad, I play and watch alot of vids and barely ever has just the Ace become such a deciding factor that it seems broken.

[woof]

this man knows his shit, why is he negged so badly? jesus
i accidentally negged him just now ...... oops :7(

[Episode_667]

With regard to LDMs having the juggle - anywhere property in XI, I know SNK had been experimenting with this before in 2K1 and 2K3, but I can't fathom why they would give the property to virtually all of the most powerful moves in XI - did they not realize the BS that this would lead to (examples already listed, like Oswald's AA normal -> Joker, K' double LDM combos)? I know we had the huge "arrange vs. arcade" debate when the PS2 version was first released, but that's one of (if not the biggest) reasons why my friends and I play arrange mode, as it removes this property from the LDMs. I think other moves may still have it though, like Gato's QCFx2 + B/D DM.

[Hyperhal]

Hey.

Rock better fucking be in this one.

[the_judge]

Gato is just fine, without his massive prioirty he wouldn't change too much.
IMO his damage output is actually quite balanced.

Oswald, he's alright but when nerfing him they just need to lower his Ace damage output, everything else is fine. (except the infinite)

Kula is Kula, she really doesn't change between KOF's.

THEY NEED TO GET RID OF THE DAMN JUDGEMENT SYSTEM. THAT SHIT PISSES ME OFF.
It's like you preform 2 big combos or DM's when the clock is running out, and that thing still isn't moving in your favor. I've lost tons of matches because that thing, it needs to stop picking sides at the beginning. The opponent will do 2 combos that don't involve DM's and now it's pretty much stuck on their side.

QS's can stay, SS's can stay, E can stay.

BC mode, nah. It'll only increase brokeness.

I wonder what Iori would be like without his powers, they can't not put him in it. Since 95 he's been in every KOF.
and maybe they can try a groove system like NW.

Either way, they can't go too much against XI.
Or else it'll be like the 2002 - 2003 transition. (big transition)

[Ouroborus]

K's sweep into LDM is fuckin buff. I think its hit confirmable too.

with the LDM, you can do some retarded 50/50 setup. block the sweep, you get overhead kneed into whatever (almost impossible to block on reaction). block the knee, you get sweep xx ggpo.

[Return of Shiki]

Thats Condor in Breakers..how many Native Americans you know wear Leather Chaps??

:rofl: :confused:

And with NO PANTS?
:crybaby::shake:

[Mr. Mamation]

Hey.

Rock better fucking be in this one.

maybe if its the one in the future going back in time

i want Lin back

[Vynce]

Well, we do already have "I still know how to party!" Terry.

Otherwise, my votes for Team Freejack go to Rock, Zantetsu, and Genjuro.

[Xero Kaiser]

I forgot this game existed.

Still no screens? This game better look fucking amazing

[vapulus]

So how do you guys think kof shading will look in high res?

I'm hoping they drop their current shading style...which is horribly outdated. The use that "fill gradient" crap that makes all of the characters legs look like they're square block with feet on the end of 'em.

*shuddder*

[Dark Geese]

And with NO PANTS?
:crybaby::shake:

LOL..yeah A gay person after seeing Condor (Name will remain anonymous) said:

"Clearly he's a Gay Indian."

:rofl:

[chopa]

I wonder what Iori would be like without his powers, they can't not put him in it. Since 95 he's been in every KOF.
and maybe they can try a groove system like NW.


Couldnt they just run him sans fireball basically (kinda like 2k2 takuma)
If they take him out therell be riots in the streets

[the_judge]

Couldnt they just run him sans fireball basically (kinda like 2k2 takuma)
If they take him out therell be riots in the streets

That would work, but it would be confusing the 1st time you would play him.

He wouldn't chane much, since his most used attack is qcb+Px3. (a physical attack)
People rarely use qcf+P, and sometimes use dp+P.

Besides ROTB, isn't this 1 of the 1st major things to happen to Iori?

[Lord BBH]

Gato is just fine, without his massive prioirty he wouldn't change too much.
IMO his damage output is actually quite balanced.

Gato isn't "just fine", he's a monster. He shouldn't be completely nerfed, but he does need to be toned the fuck down a tad.

THEY NEED TO GET RID OF THE DAMN JUDGEMENT SYSTEM. THAT SHIT PISSES ME OFF.
It's like you preform 2 big combos or DM's when the clock is running out, and that thing still isn't moving in your favor. I've lost tons of matches because that thing, it needs to stop picking sides at the beginning. The opponent will do 2 combos that don't involve DM's and now it's pretty much stuck on their side.

KO a character and there will be a big shift in the judgement indicator. If your opponents are keeping their characters alive and you're just letting yours die, of course it's going to be in their favor. (Judgement is still stupid, however)


so yeah..... it's July 1st, guess there's been no XII news from that show? :(

[the_judge]

Gato isn't "just fine", he's a monster. He shouldn't be completely nerfed, but he does need to be toned the fuck down a tad.



KO a character and there will be a big shift in the judgement indicator. If your opponents are keeping their characters alive and you're just letting yours die, of course it's going to be in their favor. (Judgement is still stupid, however)


so yeah..... it's July 1st, guess there's been no XII news from that show? :(

I'm the 1 doing the winning.
I hated it back when I wasn't good.

But, I really don't pay attention to it, until me and my opponent are down to 1 char each, and there are 15 clock seconds left.
But if it's already on their side, it prolly won't move much unless you preform an LDM and land it standalone.
IMO DM's move the judgement less if done in a combo.

[NegroNinja]

K's sweep into LDM is fuckin buff. I think its hit confirmable too.

with the LDM, you can do some retarded 50/50 setup. block the sweep, you get overhead kneed into whatever (almost impossible to block on reaction). block the knee, you get sweep xx ggpo.

Knee's not an overhead after the sweep I believe ( or else I'd have done that to you all the time XD ), every time I tried it, the knee lost it's overhead status.

And if the knee gets block you're supposed to air trigger for a safe landing. K's not Gato good after all.

[Dark Geese]

That show gave us 98 UM and KOF MI Reg A stuff...