Shin Akuma in 3S and Hugo in NG!?

[rogueyoshi]

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7480/0008ks7.png

shin akuma even has his own background. i'm gonna try and do some hacking to find the conditions for fighting them. you can get the codes for accessing the character/stage here (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=54313.msg489627#msg489627) (thanks to Eiji of mugen guild).

EDIT: Meant to say Hugo in NG

RE EDIT: seems this was discovered in the CPS3 board...

[Shade]

I was just gonna post this. Good stuff.

[Nocturnal]

Thanks for this info.

[9TNine]

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7480/0008ks7.png

shin akuma even has his own background. i'm gonna try and do some hacking to find the conditions for fighting them. you can get the codes for accessing the character/stage here (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=54313.msg489627#msg489627) (thanks to Eiji of mugen guild).

EDIT: Meant to say Hugo in NG

RE EDIT: seems this was discovered in the CPS3 board...

Seeing as how the game's been out for what, 8 years now, I'm pretty sure if it were possible to fight against Shin Akuma, someone would have done it by now.

-9

[Shade]

Hugo in NG
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5078/0000kj9.png
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3271/0008ja6.png
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/16/0023ay7.png

Walking (forward and backwards) are incomplete sprites. missing a shitload of sprites though, and there for blinks in and out of existance upon getting hit, etc. Game crashes when you use him too (usualy during one of those blinks).

[felineki]

Seeing as how the game's been out for what, 8 years now, I'm pretty sure if it were possible to fight against Shin Akuma, someone would have done it by now.

-9It's possible that he was "dummied"... meaning the code for him was there, but a way to access him either was never coded or was removed. Hence, just playing the arcade cab, there's no way to get to him. But by screwing around with the ROM (much easier now due to emulation), you could hack a way to access him.

Heh, the thought of Shin Akuma in 3S being discovered via emulation actually crossed my mind during the CPS3 emulation hubbub a week or so ago. His background palette swap is pretty sweet.

Hugo in NG is very interesting. Seems he was planned from the get go, but just not finished in time for NG's release. I remember someone else found graphics in either NG or 2I for the name "Andore", so the name change might have been a last minute thing.

Those incomplete sprites of Hugo are pretty interesting. Gives a bit of insght into the creation process.

[pherai]

Thats pretty rad. I hope to see some sprite rips of the palette swap for Shin Akuma's stage. Does anyone know if there are any palette swaps for Shin Akuma's costume?

[Tiberious]

Nice research. Gives some insight on how the game was being developed and why NG felt so incomplete.

If you notice, only his stance sprite has all the shading on it (the rest seems flat).

Of course, you've no doubt noticed the numbers there, those being animation states and all.

Interesting to note that while the stage 'beam' points at Munich, it says 'In Moscow'.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4391/hugongstagemappa1.th.png (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hugongstagemappa1.png)

Also, when fighting in Munich, all the characters are there in round 1, but when round 2 starts, the stage becomes nearly deserted.

---After some more playing around---

Ooh... here's something neat... Hugo's SA selection.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4614/hugongsaselectos5.th.png (http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hugongsaselectos5.png)

I'm gonna see what else was being worked on in NG. Maybe Urien?

[Gaijinblaze]

Thats pretty rad. I hope to see some sprite rips of the palette swap for Shin Akuma's stage. Does anyone know if there are any palette swaps for Shin Akuma's costume?
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/1563/0000mb8.png

He only has two costumes apparently (and one appears to just be Akuma's HP). You guys should read the CPS3 thread, everything is there once there is any kind of progress.

[9TNine]

It's possible that he was "dummied"... meaning the code for him was there, but a way to access him either was never coded or was removed. Hence, just playing the arcade cab, there's no way to get to him. But by screwing around with the ROM (much easier now due to emulation), you could hack a way to access him.

Heh, the thought of Shin Akuma in 3S being discovered via emulation actually crossed my mind during the CPS3 emulation hubbub a week or so ago. His background palette swap is pretty sweet.

I'm familiar with the process, and that's what I figure happened as well. I'm just saying by him looking for conditions to fight them is somewhat pointless, seeing as how we know the conditions are basically "Use emulator and set flag to 'Fight Shin Akuma'.

-9

[rogueyoshi]

Hugo in NG
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5078/0000kj9.png
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3271/0008ja6.png
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/16/0023ay7.png

Walking (forward and backwards) are incomplete sprites. missing a shitload of sprites though, and there for blinks in and out of existance upon getting hit, etc. Game crashes when you use him too (usualy during one of those blinks).

wow, those incomplete sprites are pretty cool. might be a clue to the methods capcom use for making their sprites.

[FatBear]

Shin Akuma is definitely there. Differences from regular akuma that I've spotted so far:

Double air fireball
Air hurricane kick has gimpy animation
flames are yellow
no demon flip
no d,d,d+ppp super
cr.mk and cr.hk don't move forward
when he hits people with air moves he bounces away funny, I didn't play much second impact but I think it's similar

if anyone finds any other differences they should post 'em here

[Shade]

Shin Akuma just wasnt done. They axed him before everything was finished for him. The "gimpy" air hurricane glitch is a prime example of this, because for a second, he blinks out, and you see what looks to be the small health bar portrait he would have used float under him.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1273/0002qw1.png

[Hol Horse]

I believe there's a lot of unused stuff in 3s rom.
The 3s gamest mook had sketches of lots of moves that didn't make the game in the end, but maybe at least some of the moves where done, if only partially.

I hope there's a way to restore Hashin-sho to Ibuki and to have 2I sean
it would make the game more interesting
does Shin Akuma have different winquotes?

[kev_the_bev]

Also, when fighting in Munich, all the characters are there in round 1, but when round 2 starts, the stage becomes nearly deserted.


Can someone get a screenshot of this?

[kof4life]

Shin Akuma is definitely there. Differences from regular akuma that I've spotted so far:

Double air fireball
Air hurricane kick has gimpy animation
flames are yellow
no demon flip
no d,d,d+ppp super
cr.mk and cr.hk don't move forward
when he hits people with air moves he bounces away funny, I didn't play much second impact but I think it's similar

if anyone finds any other differences they should post 'em here

A lot of that sounds like 2nd Impact Shin Akuma. all the shotos had that property on their crouching kicks, and of course he didn't have that super yet. I'd have to see the bounce to confirm that.

[CptMunta]

Can you guys post up some vids of these hidden gems please?

I'd love to see the beginings of Hugo and his stage in New Generation.

And Shin Akuma and his stage in 3rd strike

[Shade]

I posted some images of Hugo in NG a few posts above. I suppose I can rip whatever sprites he has, for you. A video is kind of overkill. Also, I'll check to see if he had I stage in NG, I dont think he did.

Also, I'll see what i can do about Shin Akuma's Stage. I can simply rip that, aswell. He has this neat little intro (if you pick Shin Akuma) aswell, where he jumps off a cliff/ledge in the background, onto the battlefield, as the camera scrolls down.

[EveryFlowerFlow]

new hidden character in 3s, click smiley :lol: (http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4558/untitledlj5.jpg)


also anyone noticed that sometimes if you air parry with shin akuma the other guy get immediately knocked out of the air, without even pressing a follow-up attack? weird.

[pc1x1]

new hidden character in 3s, click smiley :lol: (http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4558/untitledlj5.jpg)


also anyone noticed that sometimes if you air parry with shin akuma the other guy get immediately knocked out of the air, without even pressing a follow-up attack? weird.

OMG this is UBER Tier! :china:
I so wish I could be 4WD ;). Kewl stuff, thannks for the post.

[LWK]

This probably also means there is a chance it was maintained in the ports. So if some savvy gamer could find a code breaker code, we'd be able to test him out to. I have my doubts though, but you never know.

[Shade]

If it wasnt discovered up until this point, then I'm sure the code was removed for the home releases. CPS3 Emulation = new, so hacking into it is new, which is the opposite of the home ports.

[9TNine]

This probably also means there is a chance it was maintained in the ports. So if some savvy gamer could find a code breaker code, we'd be able to test him out to. I have my doubts though, but you never know.

No point in wasting space on the disc with stuff that someone won't be able to play. Not saying it doesn't ever happen, but when it does it's usually for something that comes straight to console as opposed to arcade first.

-9

[Hol Horse]

differences I found between 3S Shin Akuma and standard one so far:

- no demonflip
- no kkz
- no close HK (far version always come out) -> means that you can combo sHK into demon at any range
- hard to gauge against cpu, but he seems to have much more priority
- divekick is insane, faster and more priority
- has the same small stun bar but seems to take damage better
- less range on cMk/cHK (they don't move forward as they do for 3s shotos. Too bad since w/o the demon flip that could have meant some Kara-sho applications)
- double air fireball is strong
- shakunetsu hadoken starts up much faster and has less recovery
- teleport has very little recovery, maybe even no recobery
- ground HK tatsumaki recovers faster/bounces higher. cMK xx HK tatsu, juggle with SA1 is quite easy.
- some glitches like the already mentioned air tatsumaki; if he whiffs sa2 he freezes for like 5 seconds 8at least on mame); sa3 doesn't work properly at all, sometimes it doesn't lift, sometimes it gets only a few hits and then whiffs


graphics glitches apart he seems to be fully playable if you pick SA1, he's sure less interesting/versatile than standard version but a stronger character overall
I don't know if there are other differences, or if he juggles differently from other shotos. I fear we'll never get his framedata :P
It would be interesrting if someone made a 3s Shin Gouki combovideo, showing what he can do that the standard one can't.

[SuicidalGrandpa]

Dang I've gotta get myself CPS3

[Donkus]

True Gouki sounds like a carbon copy of his SI version (faster overall, less moves). I wonder if since the games use the same engine, the programmers just slapped the characters from SI directly into TS and then changed them to what we now know them as.

That second skin is sick! Blue skin! Reminds me of the green Abobo from double dragon.

[Hol Horse]

other things about Shin Gouki
- his throw whiff has different animation (and much faster recovery) than everyone else.
- Messatsu Gou Hadou seems to have a faster startup (maybe even 1-frame), seems to have some startup invincibility, travels much faster (can be useful even for full screen punishing) and does 7 hits instead of 6
- Messatsu Gou Shoryu is the same as Ken's Shoryureppa minus the flame effect
- the air double fireball initiates a juggle when hitting airborne opponents (don't know the juggle count)
- 3s type kara-throw still works

[Spirited_Away]

You can add that he's generally faster than any character in the game, he's still in 2I frame speed.

Not all his 2i combos work because the 3S system pushes you back further, but he still can follow-up the short HK into a another roundhouse HK into a Standing RH or FB from anywhere.

His parry timing is 2I !!, alot easier to parry with him and counter attack.

[specs]

Anybody know if his alternate stage palette swap also has its own music tracks?

[Spirited_Away]

it's the same track for Akuma's stage.

[shatterstar]

he looks like a evil ansatsuken smurf...

[PimpC]

got it to work....sweet

[felineki]

he looks like a evil ansatsuken smurf...Oh man, I can just imagine the move names...

Gou Hasmurfken
Tensmurf Gou Smurfkuu
Konsmurf Kokusmurftsu Zan
Smurf Goku Smurftsu
Messmurftsu Gou Smurfsen

[Sonic_Reaper]

Why would Capcom import unfinished frames into the game ROM? Aren't the sprites created on a computer first, then imported into the game once they are finished? What would be the point of importing the unfinished Hugo sprites? Does this tell us that Capcom makes their sprites using some sort of in-game in-house created program??? Strange.

And their technique isn't really a secret. I've seen scan of the hand-drawn SFIII frames, which are then scanned, converted to 2 colors on computer (black and white--essentially an outline), and then colored in.

[9TNine]

Why would Capcom import unfinished frames into the game ROM? Aren't the sprites created on a computer first, then imported into the game once they are finished? What would be the point of importing the unfinished Hugo sprites? Does this tell us that Capcom makes their sprites using some sort of in-game in-house created program??? Strange.

And their technique isn't really a secret. I've seen scan of the hand-drawn SFIII frames, which are then scanned, converted to 2 colors on computer (black and white--essentially an outline), and then colored in.

I would imagine it gives them an idea of whether or not the sprite is going in the direction they want. They could make decisions like whether or not they want to change something to make it work out better before they finish the whole sprite.

I guess it just makes sense to me to import them into the builds as it progresses. Doesn't exactly hurt them to.

-9

[ruthless_nash]

sonic reaper

it tells you that they like to screw over thier customers. ie. they pretty much made hugo for NG, but rather then put him in there they would make a "sequel" with a "new character" in it. i wouldnt be suprised if there was some references to the newer characters in 3S in 2i.

[Sonic_Reaper]

I remember reading somewhere that Remy and Chun were made exclusively for TS (so I doubt we'll be finding traces of them in any of the other SFIII games). Urien is just a palette swap of Gill with a different head. Not sure about Makoto though.

[9TNine]

I posted some images of Hugo in NG a few posts above. I suppose I can rip whatever sprites he has, for you. A video is kind of overkill. Also, I'll check to see if he had I stage in NG, I dont think he did.

Also, I'll see what i can do about Shin Akuma's Stage. I can simply rip that, aswell. He has this neat little intro (if you pick Shin Akuma) aswell, where he jumps off a cliff/ledge in the background, onto the battlefield, as the camera scrolls down.

Didn't happen for me. Can I just set the stage to be Shin Akuma's stage or do I have to do the steps as if were going to fight regular Akuma?

Fun little thing though, and totally not legit, but start a match playing as Gill, and mid-match change the settings play as Shin Akuma. SA's and shit don't change when you do this, so if you die Shin Akuma attempts to perform Resurrection. It comes out as his SAIII, then he lands and keels over but the match keeps going. The AI will stop doing things and the match won't end even if time runs out. Not a bug obviously, but humorous to watch.

-9

[9TNine]

UOH speed, etc. is like 2I.

-9

[Henaki]

Why would Capcom import unfinished frames into the game ROM? Aren't the sprites created on a computer first, then imported into the game once they are finished? What would be the point of importing the unfinished Hugo sprites? Does this tell us that Capcom makes their sprites using some sort of in-game in-house created program??? Strange.

And their technique isn't really a secret. I've seen scan of the hand-drawn SFIII frames, which are then scanned, converted to 2 colors on computer (black and white--essentially an outline), and then colored in.

so you can playtest a character while still developing graphics.
I remember reading somewhere that Remy and Chun were made exclusively for TS (so I doubt we'll be finding traces of them in any of the other SFIII games). Urien is just a palette swap of Gill with a different head. Not sure about Makoto though.

urien is a headswap, although they probably had to trace over some of the stuff entirely because of gills huge hair, like ever single backshot.

[Sonic_Reaper]

The Remy drawings I've seen had no hair (it was added later, during the coloring stage). It's possible, if Capcom were smart (or had foresight), that they draw Gill without hair first, then added it later, and thus, wouldn't need to trace over his hair later, when head swapping Urien.

In case anyone thinks I'm lying out of my ass, here are some Chun frames drawn by the Capcom artists/animation team;

http://petesqbsite.com/sections/tutorials/tuts/tsugumo/chapter9.htm

I'm still hunting for the Remy, Ibuki and Yun/Yang frames I've seen online as well.

[n8archer_XI]

Same here; how big are the CPS3 roms (on average)?

[Donkus]

It would be interesrting if someone made a 3s Shin Gouki combovideo, showing what he can do that the standard one can't.

Normal Gouki can't do any of the combos in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daRY8EAN-Bk&NR=1


If executed within range of the first frame, not one of this guy's supers can be blocked on reaction. Ouch.

[Hol Horse]

If executed within range of the first frame, not one of this guy's supers can be blocked on reaction. Ouch.

wtf? no other super in the game acts like this!
0-frame startup perhaps?
It's Alpha 2 again :D

[felineki]

wtf? no other super in the game acts like this!
0-frame startup perhaps?
It's Alpha 2 again :DHuh? I'm almost certain there are multiple supers in 3S that are unblockable if you weren't already blocking before the superpause. For a few frames after a superpause ends, the game ignores all of the opponent's inputs. Thus, if the super is able to hit within those frames, and the opponent wasn't already blocking, they're out of luck.

[YellowS4]

Lol, nifty video.

[Hol Horse]

Huh? I'm almost certain there are multiple supers in 3S that are unblockable if you weren't already blocking before the superpause. For a few frames after a superpause ends, the game ignores all of the opponent's inputs. Thus, if the super is able to hit within those frames, and the opponent wasn't already blocking, they're out of luck.

plenty of times I've blocked Makoto's SA1, Dudley's both SA2, Ryu's Shin Shoryuken, Chun's SA1 only after seeing the screen freeze, and those are the fastest super in the game. You can test this in training mode easily, record the dummy doinga point blank superfast super, and dont touch the stick until you see the superfreeze. You'll still be able to block, the game doesn't ignore inputs after the superfreeze.
You have to parry those supers before the screen freeze, but that's inherent for the parry system since a parry has to be recorded before the move makes contact. But you can always guard on reaction.

You can't jump out of pointblank Gigas, Ibuki's SA2 or Gouki's demon, but that's another matter - jump is not instant, guarding is.

[Donkus]

Urien's EX Reflector is the only super I know of that can't be blocked on reaction.

Lol, nifty video.

Thanks. Unfortnately that's about as technical as I can get on this keyboard. It won't let me do combos where the target is crouching or jumping and I can't superjump. I'd like to extend the second combo but I have never been able to duplicate it. Somebody try this guy and list the crazy combos you come up with.

[Rik]

If only Akuma's start up for his SA1 would have remained with 0 start up heh, man Akuma was nerfed big time.

[Donkus]

Another thing: this guy doesn't have any stun combos and he can't do repeated SAIs from the LP dragon punch in the corner like Gouki can. I think he only has one 100% combo, too.

[Kayin]

Same here; how big are the CPS3 roms (on average)?

New Generation - 35.07 mb
Second Impact - 39.62 mb
Third Strike - 63.12 mb

Warzard / Red Earth - 34.51 mb

Jojo's Venture - 41.69 mb
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure - 48.87 mb