The New Arcana HYPE Thread - Asians split pot at NEC, Sabin allows it by no showing

[NewVenom]

Except she's not invulnerable at the startup of 6D. She's VERY vulnerable. Only if you have ample time, will you be able to escape stuff.

Have fun with it tho, it's a blast if you can get everything...

Just a quick question, How long did it take from practicing to get really good with lilica?:woot: Right before AH2 came out I was practicing the loop and I was doing really good at it but in 2 the timing felt kind of strange to me.

[Sabin]

Man. I'm watching matchvids of you and you are a fucking beast.
Can I be your rabid fangirl?

Only if you promise to read the first post. :wink:

Actually, everyone is Rob's fangirl since he does the uber sexy lilica time hax, (which he xcopied from this guy right here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=K0v4mR55dFM)) while i play kinda boring. Actually every time I play this game in tourny I'm almost always pretty much booed (kinda like Justin :rofl:)

wait what, fangirl, I thought you were a dude :confused:

[HeartNana]

Just a quick question, How long did it take from practicing to get really good with lilica?:woot: Right before AH2 came out I was practicing the loop and I was doing really good at it but in 2 the timing felt kind of strange to me.
about a year and 3 months. Though i still suck compared to the Japanese, so it doesnt matter anyways.

And I won't deny that i x-copied Kanda, cause what he does is too sexy. Once i got used to the combos i kinda did things my own way, but the original hax were definitely taken straight from that vid.

[Bill307]

Got some harcore training done yesterday/today. Worked on some Kira combos that aren't up on the Wiki (but should be added imo, especially the Earth one).

On a side note, I still can't post on the Guardcrush forums: I think my account (Bill307) needs to be activated still :sad:.


*** Lightning Kira combo ***
3C 6[HC] (wait until almost under opponent) 632146D

Damage: ~7500 if 3C hits, ~5500 after guard break (blocked 3[C])

Yup, turns out this combo works after all, and does some nice damage, too. :woot: I'm surprised I never see it on Youtube.

In training mode, I was able to hit the super reliably after a guard break, however the level 8 cpu managed to "wiggle out" first. By the way, I found it easiest to do the super motion by doing a 360. Edit: after some practice, after the guardbreak I'm able to hit them within ~1/3 to ~1/2 of a second (depending on how far away they are when they're hit), faster than the level 8 cpu will wiggle out.


*** Earth Kira combo ***
(in corner) (5B 41236D)x3 5B

Damage: ~10,500 (!!)

Insane damage for a no-homing, no-super combo! :wow: You don't experience any push-back at all, which means you could potentially do (5B fist)xforever if the opponent didn't tech (they can tech out after the 4th 5B). It's also possible to keep going with [7HC] j.A j.2C etc., adding another 1000-1500 damage. In addition, there's probably a way to cap it with the wall-toss without using a homing bar, which would give you much better follow-up options than ending it with 5B.

The timing on this combo is much harder than it looks. You can't cancel into the fist asap or else the next 5B will miss. The later your cancel into the fist, the more time you'll have to connect 5B, but if you wait too long then you'll end up getting 6HC instead. Personally, I wait until I see Kira's elbow sticking out (the animation frame that you can cancel out of), then do the whole 41236D motion.

[Lobelia Prime]

Only if you promise to read the first post. :wink:

I already did. :lovin: I'm an awesome fangirl already!

[orka]

i would like to point out that typically, 3[c] does not warrant a combo with the exception of fire arcana (which cannot be struggled out of). human players can struggle out of the stun with fair consistency to avoid 5d > combo of any kind. if you are capable of mashing out of lvl 3 stun in guilt gear, then this shouldn't be that hard either. the following are some of the guaranteed and practical examples to capitalize on 3[c].

arcana specific (normal state):


fire 3[c] > 5d > combo
lightning 3[c] > 214d
lightning 3[c] > 412364d
lightning 3[c] > 236236d (space and character dependent)

arcana specific (arcana force):


love 3[c] > 236a+b+c

maori specific:


any 3[c] > 421a+b
any 3[c] > 214c > 421a+b (corner only)
fire 3[c] > 6gc > 22a/b > 3a or 623b (corner only)
evil 3[c] > 412364d > j.a > jc > j.a > j.c > land > 5a

there are others... like wind 3[c] > 236a+b+c while in arcane force, gier 3[c] > release gier, steel 3[c] > 6gc > 360d... but you won't see them happen often since they're just very situation-specific or just not worth the effort/meter/etc.

[nekohime]

Ok I love this game and all but I really wish the AI was smarter. I'm playing Heart with Love arcana and I still can't do any combo loops (or much of anything that involves HC for that matter) yet I just walked through arcade mode on difficulty 8 without losing a match.

So here's my question for the veteran players, how do I convince people to buy this game so that I can have some intelligent competition? I somehow doubt I'll get as good as you guys by playing against an AI that can't even come up with a way to counter simple cheese tactics like spamming Love's 623D from the other side of the screen.

[Sephiroth73003]

I detect bias.

lol i was just joking, cuz Heartnana plays/likes lilica. Well I assume you like a character if you spend a month in training mode pounding out a combo :rofl:.

Everyone should just pick who they like.

Only thing that will make me shy away from a character is if they just suck or their is a character that has the exact same gameplan just is better at doing it (Roy compared to Marth in melee, or Alex compared to makoto in 3s though i started with makoto so it worked out) .. I don't have to play top tier just they have to actually have options. :shake: i just typically like sword people.

[orka]

Ok I love this game and all but I really wish the AI was smarter. I'm playing Heart with Love arcana and I still can't do any combo loops (or much of anything that involves HC for that matter) yet I just walked through arcade mode on difficulty 8 without losing a match.

So here's my question for the veteran players, how do I convince people to buy this game so that I can have some intelligent competition? I somehow doubt I'll get as good as you guys by playing against an AI that can't even come up with a way to counter simple cheese tactics like spamming Love's 623D from the other side of the screen.

post here (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=148778) and see what's up?

[Lobelia Prime]

post here (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=148778) and see what's up?

They're apparently just now learning about AH. Good shit too, since I'm going over there in a week. :tup:

[slayerx4]

check first post please, theres your answer.

please ppl, read first post more before asking questions. youd save srk bandwidth/forum clutter that way, and at least if you took a few minutes of your time to read the first post, then we'd be a lot more interested in helping you out seriously. :wink:

by the way i also apologize for the heart section of the wiki...shinto did a really bad job with many errors actually, but i didnt check it until you guys started talking about it again recently. :( sorry

thanks, sorry for the clutter. I was playing and at the spur of the moment just asked w/o searching.

[nekohime]

They're apparently just now learning about AH. Good shit too, since I'm going over there in a week. :tup:

Sounds cool. Looks like most of the action is kinda far away but maybe i can get down there sometime. In the meantime I think I got a couple friends hooked on it but neither of them can afford it right now. Still with just a few hours of practice they're already more challenging than the AI and a lot more fun.

I think I'll spend most of tomorrow working on HCs.

[nekohime]

I have a question about a combo in this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6207552769522383916) that I hope someone can answer. It's a long video so skip to 6:38 where it's Heart vs. Lilica and Heart goes into a corner combo that I'd like to practice. Going frame-by-frame it looks like 2A, 2B, 2C, 236A, 6HC, 5A, 5C, iad, jC, 5A, 6B, 236A, 5A, 5C, iad, jC, 66(i think thats what 66 with lightning arcana looks like anyway), 5A, jA, jB, and then... what the hell is that? at 6:45 Heart delivers a mid-air back hand that I have never seen before. Anyone know how that works?

[pbj_mixxa]

It's in the movelist on the wiki, j.4B. It's used in almost all of Heart's air combo enders so if you've never seen it before, you're not watching the right vids.

[nekohime]

Thanks, I actually did check the wiki but only members of the Sysops usergroup can view the character pages and Heart's j.4B isn't listed on the wiki at guardcrush hence I was completely at a loss.

[Bill307]

lightning 3[c] > 412364d


Hmm... so some characters can just cancel straight into the super? (You meant 632146D, right?) Thanks: I'll keep that in mind.

After more practice, I'm now able to do 3[C] 6[HC] 632146D fast enough to hit them within ~1/3 to ~1/2 of a second after the guardbreak (depending on how far away they are when they're hit). That's fast enough to catch the cpu before it wiggles out, and probably any human as well, making it a reliable combo.

[Mizuki]

What happened to all these WC Arcana peeps, why do I have like NO pm's in my box or anyone IM'ing me. Stop being fake and lets start some shit.

[meta]

Hmm... so some characters can just cancel straight into the super? (You meant 632146D, right?) Thanks: I'll keep that in mind.

After more practice, I'm now able to do 3[C] 6[HC] 632146D fast enough to hit them within ~1/3 to ~1/2 of a second after the guardbreak (depending on how far away they are when they're hit). That's fast enough to catch the cpu before it wiggles out, and probably any human as well, making it a reliable combo.

6d unnecessary, if that's what you mean by hc. 3[c] 632146d is my favorite combo of all time.

[Bill307]

Yeah, 6[HC] = 6[D]. I slightly prefer the HC notation so that D is used for Arcana specials and supers only (in a combo).

I don't know about the other characters, but Kira usually needs to do 6[D] because of the range of her 3[C].

[orka]

yea, i did mean 632146d... i wrote the notation backwards by accident. you do not need to homing cancel the 3c for 632146d to hit. 3[c] > 632146d is guaranteed on guard crush.

however, 3[c] > 236236d is not guaranteed on guard crush. the first lightning strike can completely whiff depending on spacing and character, in which case the opponent can struggle out before the second lightning strike.

fyi you can cancel any arcana move into 3c and 6c for all characters, except fiona's 6c. the reason is that fiona leaves the ground when she does her 6c, but the game will not allow you to cancel into air arcana moves either for whatever reason.

also, for posterity:


maori does not need to homing cancel to make 421a+b (or 214c > 421a+b in the corner) connect after 3[c] guard crush. the super activates quickly enough, that maori has plenty of time to make the move hit after recovering from 3[c].
steel 3[c] > 6hc > 360d... i specifically put "6hc" there because although you can directly cancel the sword super into the 3[c], it won't fully connect because the swords take a while to move after locking onto the opponent. so if you want all the swords to hit, you need to input the super when the opponent is rising at slower speed getting launched.

[Gasaraki]

What happened to all these WC Arcana peeps, why do I have like NO pm's in my box or anyone IM'ing me. Stop being fake and lets start some shit.

Stop being in NorCal =(

[Lobelia Prime]

^^
Fatal K.O.

[Bill307]

Stop being in NorCal =(
Critical Heartbreak.


yea, i did mean 632146d... i wrote the notation backwards by accident. you do not need to homing cancel the 3c for 632146d to hit. 3[c] > 632146d is guaranteed on guard crush.

[...]



Ah nice, more 3[C] info. :smile: Although, if her opponent is not close to her, then Kira definitely has to 6HC out of the 3[C] to hit them with the 632146D super: I just tested it out in training mode.

Hey, I have an idea for the Wiki: for the combos section, maybe we can add links to Youtube videos where one can see the combo in question. For example, I'm trying to learn Lieselotte's midscreen combo, and it'd be very helpful to see it in action so that I can visualize it in my head. (I'm sure I've seen it countless times already, but I've never taken the time to actually remember it step-by-step :razz:.)


Edit: does anyone else find the Story mode dialog in the US version to be hilarious and random? An example from Konoha's storyline:

Kamui: Konoha, you are strong, but I don't want you getting involved. Please, let me handle this alone. :smile:
*Konoha knocks her out in a vicious fight*
Konoha: Woof! Woof! Don't be ridiculous, Miss Kamui. Konoha can handle this while you rest. :bgrin:

:rofl:

[masher]

How the fuck do you stop that faggot ass autoparry launcher shit with the rock and electric assist?

if they get a knockdown and time it right there no escape! :wasted:

[meta]

Yeah, 6[HC] = 6[D]. I slightly prefer the HC notation so that D is used for Arcana specials and supers only (in a combo).

I don't know about the other characters, but Kira usually needs to do 6[D] because of the range of her 3[C].

oic, i know nothing about kira except that she owns me for free

[nekohime]

How the fuck do you stop that faggot ass autoparry launcher shit with the rock and electric assist?

if they get a knockdown and time it right there no escape! :wasted:

Not sure what you mean by auto-parry launchers. I know lightning adds clashes to 66 and a few other things and 623D can only be used after a clash and knocks you into the wall. I guess you could try blocking after the clash instead of using another attack if you think that's what your opp will go for it or you could take the hit, tech off the wall, and try to pull something when they come in to follow-up.

Anyway you can escape pretty much anything by hitting A+B+C.

[citiofbrass]

Not sure what you mean by auto-parry launchers. I know lightning adds clashes to 66 and a few other things and 623D can only be used after a clash and knocks you into the wall. I guess you could try blocking after the clash instead of using another attack if you think that's what your opp will go for it or you could take the hit, tech off the wall, and try to pull something when they come in to follow-up.

Anyway you can escape pretty much anything by hitting A+B+C.

i think hes talking about hold 3c with earth and lightning.

eath gives you super armor like juggernaut and lightning gives i believe only one free clash frame. anyway if you time 4d correctly when they attempt to do it, u will hop back and go through the move b/c the first part of the back dash u have invincability. after that you own him up for free cause he just did a wiffed move. second option is most char. have wake up specials and supers that can stop shit like that anyway.

so remmeber right when its suppose to hit u hit 4d

[Nokato]

Currently I'm using Kamui and I play a Fiona player that has switched to metal. He tends to use to shield and try to zone me out with. Sometimes I don't have trouble getting in but there are situations where I have alot of trouble. He'll shield up and then do an unblockable attack, and go into combos...I know this is probably year 1 stuff but as I said I'm just starting out, can anyone offer me some strategies or a way to approach dealing with that?

[Sephiroth73003]

Don't you only have invincibility on a 4D if you GC it? a random 4HC isn't going to have invincibility or does it?. I think he's referring to getting knocked down than eating an unblockable in certain setups.

Tech when you hit the ground? If you have lightning wake-up forward dash than cancel the clash into 623D or something or 4D it. Time a backdash right and you can get through it as backdashes have a small amount of invincibility in them, not a lot but some and if you have Time wake up back dash would own them for trying something like that. Those are what i'd imagine were good options : /. If your Heart just 623B that shit, no one gets to hold shit on you on wake-up like that :rofl:. There aren't many ways without a Gier super or Fire Arcana to guarantee a unblockable 6/3C. If you get hit by one you always can Arcana Burst.

Best thing so far.

"I am programmed to win at laundry" - mei fang.

[citiofbrass]

well thats actually not a bad strategy he has. dont know y i never saw that. luckly ur using kamu who has 3000 special attacks. the most practical one to do is use probably mid kogi/counter attack (not sure whats the move called or how to do it b/c i dont use her). u can do it on wake-up so depending on when hes doing it u can counter for sure. again like i said earlier you can also back dash/4d and go through the move. this may be alittle more difficult to do vs fiona b/c the shit is kinda far and the timing is wierd, atleast for me. when u do hit 4d
u wont be able to hit him when the shied is up but atleast you can run away.

now my question for you now is he pulling off getting a lvl3 sheild? b/c if he is u really gotta apply more pressure to teh guy so that he wont charge for meter and lvl up. u can punish the lvl ups if ur close enough. and actually i cant imagine the guy being able to cast shield and charge b4 ur wake up. i think u have time to jump 8d to run away from that set up. as for me though im a punish kinda guy so thats y i suggest more pressure

[citiofbrass]

Don't you only have invincibility on a 4D if you GC it? a random 4HC isn't going to have invincibility or does it?. I think he's referring to getting knocked down than eating an unblockable in certain setups.




u do get invincablity if u time it right. unless im losing my brain :looney: im def not reffering to gc though. i dont do 4d often b/c i use lightning so i clash it all the time.

EDIT: im like 90% sure that u see ur char actually go through the move even if ur tight on teh corner. that goes for even when u vs kamui and she does sega super u go through.

[Bill307]

How the fuck do you stop that faggot ass autoparry launcher shit with the rock and electric assist?

if they get a knockdown and time it right there no escape! :wasted:
Well, you have a bunch of options in general:

Against Earth 3[C], the best thing to do is to block and let them guardbreak you. Guardbreaks do no damage (they don't even remove poison status), and they shouldn't be able to follow up as long as you wiggle the stick fast enough. (Exception: Maori can follow up with 421A+B.)
Block, then 4D right before their move guardbreaks you. (Edit: yes, it gives you a moment of invincibility.)
If possible, get out of the way (backdash, jump away, etc.).
Throw them.
Block, then hit them out of the guardbreak attempt right before it hits. As soon as they let go of C, or their move finishes charging, they will no longer have Lightning clashes or Earth super armour.


Then there are character-specific and Arcana-specific options:

Against Lightning 6[C]/3[C], use a super that won't clash with them (e.g. Konoha's 236A+B, Kamui's 236A+B, Kira's 720 A+B, etc.). This isn't very effective against Earth because the super armour will greatly reduce the damage.
Block, then use an invincible attack or super right before they guardbreak you (e.g. Heart's 623x or Fire 236236D).
Use your own super-armoured move (e.g. Earth 3[C]/6[C] or Fiona's 623C).
Block, then let their attack clash with you, e.g. use the Lightning forward dash, Lightning 3[C]/6[C], or a character-specific move.



Edit:
"I am programmed to win at laundry" - mei fang.
:lol:

[Overworld]

Finally got to play with my friend, we played a nice amount of matches, around 50 or so and I won a good margin higher than half of them. I can get the heel kick loop combo going to the right, but to the left I have more difficulty, for some reason I have a much easier time using the C hopping kick to start it going to the left than I do with the slide.

Still need to practice more.

Also, that advancing guard where your character has the red energy in front of them, what are good situations to use it in? I was trying to work it in, but often I was misjudging things and getting hit.

Also is Lilica's air 214B safe on block? He never got to me when he did block it, but I didn't know if it was because we're both new.

[BlackShinobi]

Currently I'm using Kamui and I play a Fiona player that has switched to metal. He tends to use to shield and try to zone me out with. Sometimes I don't have trouble getting in but there are situations where I have alot of trouble. He'll shield up and then do an unblockable attack, and go into combos...I know this is probably year 1 stuff but as I said I'm just starting out, can anyone offer me some strategies or a way to approach dealing with that?

Stay on Fiona's ass. Kamui can already pressure the hell out of her and having to charge her own super meter means if you stay on her She doesn't get levels. If you can (depending on height or arcana) throw a projectile at the sheild and just keep on pressuring her.

[Gasaraki]

Also, that advancing guard where your character has the red energy in front of them, what are good situations to use it in? I was trying to work it in, but often I was misjudging things and getting hit.


It's not really a gaurd, it's a dash with clash frames on it. So if they clash, cancel into throw or whatever good poke your character has.

[citiofbrass]

Also is Lilica's air 214B safe on block? He never got to me when he did block it, but I didn't know if it was because we're both new.

i t hink its safe on block especially if you 44 in the air. if you wiff it however your fucked

[Jakarta]

I'm pretty new to fighters, but I can usually pull off specials consistently. However, playing Arcana Heart, it seems almost impossible to do the 360 spin or 720 spin with Kira without jumping off the ground. Can you do it with a stick? I only have my GGXX fighter stick, and I don't think it works too well. I don't play stick that often. There aren't any good arcades around here. Doing it on the d-pad just seems nonsense though. Quarter turns and half circles are easy.

Any advice?

[Lobelia Prime]

I'm pretty new to fighters, but I can usually pull off specials consistently. However, playing Arcana Heart, it seems almost impossible to do the 360 spin or 720 spin with Kira without jumping off the ground. Can you do it with a stick? I only have my GGXX fighter stick, and I don't think it works too well. I don't play stick that often. There aren't any good arcades around here. Doing it on the d-pad just seems nonsense though. Quarter turns and half circles are easy.

Any advice?

Many Kira players do it during hitstun or blockstun. Also, you can sort of pull of a tick-throw mindgame by using the amount of lag a move has to begin the input for Kira's SPD.

[Sephiroth73003]

Buffer during another move, air dash, dash, GuardCancel, or during a clash.

You can't just standing 720 really in this i don't think. Don't have a local Kira so I'm not 100% sure on that, but I'm sure you can buffer that shit.

So a random 4D does have invincibility hm ... interesting. I'm gonna have to keep that in mind.

[orka]

4d has invincibility, and a pretty lengthy one. 4d and 4gc are pretty much the same move, except that homing bar takes more time to recover after you do 4gc, since it is a guard cancel.

also, few people seem to be aware... but 6gc has brief invincibility at start-up as well. while people usually don't 6gc for the intention of utilizing the invincibility frames, there are certain things that only 6gc can accomplish. for example, if a earth kamui player is doing 5b > 5c > 41236d on block against you, you can perform a delayed 6gc after 5c and your character will go straight through the fist and have ample time to do a full combo on kamui.

[Jakarta]

Buffer during another move, air dash, dash, GuardCancel, or during a clash.

You can't just standing 720 really in this i don't think. Don't have a local Kira so I'm not 100% sure on that, but I'm sure you can buffer that shit.

So a random 4D does have invincibility hm ... interesting. I'm gonna have to keep that in mind.

By buffer, do you mean to put it in while doing another move, like while doing an air dash, dash, guard cancel, etc...?

[Capps Indigo]

Thanks, I actually did check the wiki but only members of the Sysops usergroup can view the character pages and Heart's j.4B isn't listed on the wiki at guardcrush hence I was completely at a loss.

huh? not everyone can see which wiki?

also, j.4B is listed on the Heart wiki over at guardcrush. under 'command normals.'

4B (Air only): Back Fist

* 1000 DMG.


By buffer, do you mean to put it in while doing another move, like while doing an air dash, dash, guard cancel, etc...?

yes

[Jakarta]

Thank you.
I'll have to try it out.
I can get it to work coming out of a homing cancel, but it doesn't actually grab onto them. I'll have to try it out of something else. I'm just messing around in training now.

[nekohime]

huh? not everyone can see which wiki?

also, j.4B is listed on the Heart wiki over at guardcrush. under 'command normals.'


Whoops, apparently I'm blind enough to read Heart's page on gaurdcrush several times without seeing that. The other wiki I was talking about was the Shoryuken AH wiki (http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Arcana_Heart) where going to the (nonexistent) character pages brings up a message that only members of the Sysops group can view the source code. For some reason at the time I thought that meant only certain people could view the character pages. I didn't even occur to me that no one had written them yet.

Anyway I seem to be getting better at timing HCs but successfully juggling my opp is still a long way off. But I've only been playing for a week, I'm sure I'll get it eventually with enough practice.

[mrshmearo]

On the wiki it says IAD is 866 but can i also before it doing 7>4 or 9>6? Is it the same result?

[Gasaraki]

Yes, there's lots of different ways to IAD, just do whatevers most comfortable to you. As a pad user I do 96 normally

[nekohime]

I'm sure this is old news by now but I just saw the Arcana Heart PS2 arcade stick and I'm sad because I'll never own one. :sad:

[Sugarmilktea]

I'm pretty new to fighters, but I can usually pull off specials consistently. However, playing Arcana Heart, it seems almost impossible to do the 360 spin or 720 spin with Kira without jumping off the ground. Can you do it with a stick? I only have my GGXX fighter stick, and I don't think it works too well. I don't play stick that often. There aren't any good arcades around here. Doing it on the d-pad just seems nonsense though. Quarter turns and half circles are easy.

Any advice?

In case you didn't know you do not need to input the full 360/720 for kira spd/special in this game. All you need to input is 270/540.
Just try practicing the move you'll eventually get to pull of move without jumping and depending on GC to pull it off.

Don't know how it feels to play on the d-pad with kira, but i don't think it'll work very well with it.

[Jakarta]

In case you didn't know you do not need to input the full 360/720 for kira spd/special in this game. All you need to input is 270/540.
Just try practicing the move you'll eventually get to pull of move without jumping and depending on GC to pull it off.

Don't know how it feels to play on the d-pad with kira, but i don't think it'll work very well with it.

Really?
I did not know that. That's probably how I've been pulling it off though: doing only a 270/540. I can do the 360 without jumping, but it's not very consistent. I can't do the 720.

Playing on the d-pad with Kira is hard, but I don't have a good stick. I have the GGXX custom fighterstick, but it doesn't work well with AH, plus I'm not sure if it's in good shape. I bought it online, and I'm not used to using sticks. I need a good one, so I can get used to it for actual competition and what not.

[Bill307]

It's pretty normal to find it really hard to do a standing 720 (i.e. without buffering it at all) without jumping. I can occasionally do it on the left but never on the right. Either way, it's not something I'll be using in a real match any time soon. :wink: (Some people can do standing 1080 (900?) (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=jq0hLGCNdw0&NR=1) in AH2, but don't you worry about that. :razz:)

Here's a somewhat comprehensive (I think) list of places to buffer the 720, roughly in order of how easy they are.

720A+B on wake-up.
720A+B after activating your Arcana. You can buffer the 720 while everything is frozen.
After a 360x or air 214x, time a 6[C] to whiff as they're waking up. Do 720 while Kira is rushing forward and A+B after the move finishes.
Catch them with 421x, then do 720 during the move animation and A+B once it's done.
Do 4[D] or 6[D], then 720A+B while holding D to keep yourself from jumping.
Do 3[C] or 6[C], then 720 while holding C. If they clash with you, A+B to super. (Works especially well with Lightning.)
Jump in, do j.C near the ground (you should land before it comes out), 720A+B while landing.
If they leave a hole in their block string where you can super them without having to GC, do 720A+B in the hole.

[Lobelia Prime]

Yes, there's lots of different ways to IAD, just do whatevers most comfortable to you. As a pad user I do 96 normally

Same here. I love IADing with Kamui. IAD j.B scares so many people.

[BlackShinobi]

Hey Arturo, is there anyway for me to find the videos that were on your old youtube account? the two on two matches and that new AH opening video

[Sephiroth73003]

Just got my first PS2 stick ... i'm impressed this shit is hard :rofl:. Props to everyone who is used to this cuz this takes a lot more skill to work than i thought. I feel like i'm relearning the damn violin.

I will conquer air-dashing :nunchuck:.

[venom2978]

ok i'm gonna try this again. I live in new jersey and i was wondering if there are any of u in the area who wanna get together and play. I don't make it out to philly or new york but if any1 wants to come to my place or invite me to there's, hit me up. I've been playin this game since december 2007, and i only get to play the computer. I made it out to philly 3 times to play, and got my ass kicked by those guys. anyway, i really wanna learn how to play against other people, so if any1 is interested, hit me up

[catchafire]

ok i'm gonna try this again. I live in new jersey and i was wondering if there are any of u in the area who wanna get together and play. I don't make it out to philly or new york but if any1 wants to come to my place or invite me to there's, hit me up. I've been playin this game since december 2007, and i only get to play the computer. I made it out to philly 3 times to play, and got my ass kicked by those guys. anyway, i really wanna learn how to play against other people, so if any1 is interested, hit me up

you live in south jersey?

[venom2978]

you live in south jersey?

yea, burlington county, browns mills. how bout u?

[pbj_mixxa]

Both of you:

take it to the matchmaking forum.

[masher]

Well, you have a bunch of options in general:

Against Earth 3[C], the best thing to do is to block and let them guardbreak you. Guardbreaks do no damage (they don't even remove poison status), and they shouldn't be able to follow up as long as you wiggle the stick fast enough. (Exception: Maori can follow up with 421A+B.)
Block, then 4D right before their move guardbreaks you. (Edit: yes, it gives you a moment of invincibility.)
If possible, get out of the way (backdash, jump away, etc.).
Throw them.
Block, then hit them out of the guardbreak attempt right before it hits. As soon as they let go of C, or their move finishes charging, they will no longer have Lightning clashes or Earth super armour.


Then there are character-specific and Arcana-specific options:

Against Lightning 6[C]/3[C], use a super that won't clash with them (e.g. Konoha's 236A+B, Kamui's 236A+B, Kira's 720 A+B, etc.). This isn't very effective against Earth because the super armour will greatly reduce the damage.
Block, then use an invincible attack or super right before they guardbreak you (e.g. Heart's 623x or Fire 236236D).
Use your own super-armoured move (e.g. Earth 3[C]/6[C] or Fiona's 623C).
Block, then let their attack clash with you, e.g. use the Lightning forward dash, Lightning 3[C]/6[C], or a character-specific move.

:

dude unblockable launcher do take away health,how can I 4D when my ass is the air?

If they time it right on wakeup I don't think any of those tips will work besides back dashing or a good super.
It's pretty normal to find it really hard to do a standing 720 (i.e. without buffering it at all) without jumping. I can occasionally do it on the left but never on the right. Either way, it's not something I'll be using in a real match any time soon. :wink: (Some people can do standing 1080 (900?) (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=jq0hLGCNdw0&NR=1) in AH2, but don't you worry about that. :razz:)

Here's a somewhat comprehensive (I think) list of places to buffer the 720, roughly in order of how easy they are.

720A+B on wake-up.
720A+B after activating your Arcana. You can buffer the 720 while everything is frozen.
After a 360x or air 214x, time a 6[C] to whiff as they're waking up. Do 720 while Kira is rushing forward and A+B after the move finishes.
Catch them with 421x, then do 720 during the move animation and A+B once it's done.
Do 4[D] or 6[D], then 720A+B while holding D to keep yourself from jumping.
Do 3[C] or 6[C], then 720 while holding C. If they clash with you, A+B to super. (Works especially well with Lightning.)
Jump in, do j.C near the ground (you should land before it comes out), 720A+B while landing.
If they leave a hole in their block string where you can super them without having to GC, do 720A+B in the hole.


dude rock Kira rocks!(pun intended!) :rock:

her dash almost autoparry everything and you can buffer 360/720 on clash!:amazed:

just made my friend quit with that.:rofl:

[Mizuki]

If they time it right on wakeup I don't think any of those tips will work besides back dashing or a good super.

How would you know? Do you even play against people? Level 8 cpu doesn't count unless you're in my living room running 3 man tourneys with training mode.

[Sabin]

masher, youre pretty much dead wrong. All of those setups Bill307 listed, are good, and do indeed work.

Of course, it depends on how they time the 3C, which is why he listed multiple options and defensive tech to get away.

About the unblockable launchers taking away health...no..they do not if you block them. They just guard crush you. With the exception of Fire (Which is unblockable) and Time. You should try it.

Bill307: You're one hell of a encyclopedia here, thanks for the good work.

BlackShinobi: umm...theyre on nicovideo somewhere. Actually Bill307 posted the links (before i saw it and decided to rip them from nico) on this thread no less.

[Bill307]

Hey Arturo, is there anyway for me to find the videos that were on your old youtube account? the two on two matches and that new AH opening video
Looks like a search for アルカナ 2on2 does the trick.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/search/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A+2on2

(I was actually looking for these a while ago myself, but it never occurred to me to just add "2on2" to the search terms until now... <_<;; )

Thanks Arturo.


dude unblockable launcher do take away health,how can I 4D when my ass is the air?

If they time it right on wakeup I don't think any of those tips will work besides back dashing or a good super.

Masher: see for yourself how this Lilica player deals with the Earth "autoparry" launcher:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUkXUhNOXRA
At 0:23 he just blocks and takes no damage from the guardbreak (it looks like he gets hurt, but if you look at his life metre it doesn't change). At 3:07, Heart is poisoned and Lilica suffers another guardbreak: not only does he take no damage, but Heart keeps the poisoned status -- normally you can get rid of poison by hitting your opponent.

Good job making your friend quit due to grabs, btw. :lol:



<rant>Damnit, Lieselotte's midscreen combo is so frustrating to learn! Half the time I miss the IAD (yes, half), sometimes one of her little hand swipes misses, sometimes the suitcase swing misses, and the rest of the time I mistime the doll's relaunch attack. :shake: I think I got the doll to relaunch Heart twice, mostly by luck, and I've gotten one relaunch only a few times so far. ARRRRGH! :annoy: ASDFOFDSAERFDASEFOSAD... Well, guess I'll just have to practice some more tomorrow. For the most part, I think I know what I'm doing wrong in each case: it's just a matter of making a habit of doing them correctly.</rant>

[Bill307]

Hey, I found a "newbie-friendly" midscreen combo for Lieselotte. :bgrin: Although it uses 1 additional homing bar (homing dash), it still does about the same amount of damage, and furthermore it gives you practice with the latter half of her usual midscreen combo (juggling with Elfriede across the screen). Besides, I've seen at least one video where a similar easy-mode combo was used rather than Liese's usual combo, so even Japanese players use it :wink:.

Midscreen combo from the Wiki:
2A2B5C > 236C > IAD j.B > land > 5A (1 hit) > j.A (2 hits) A (1 hit) dj.A (2 hits) j.2B+C > tap B > land > etc...

Newbie-friendly midscreen combo:
(note: "2AB" means press A and B in quick succession while holding down)
2AB 5C > 236C > 6D (not a homing cancel; wait until up close) > 6AB > j.6AB (delay to let doll partially recover from B attack) > j.3C > tap 6B when suitcase hits (doll 5B attack) > land > etc...

My theory is that once I've got this easier midscreen combo down, I'll have no problems with the latter half of the usual midscreen combo because it's the same in both combos. All I'll have to do is learn the IAD, j.A's, and j.2B+C parts. :smile:

Personally, I think this is Wiki-worthy, since I feel like it's going to make learning Lieselotte a *lot* easier, both in terms of getting practice juggling with Elfriede, and the fact that with this combo, at least you can start to compete against players who can do combos :wink:.

(I think adding more timing information to her combos would be helpful as well.)

[phae]

So, today I ambled over to gamestop to buy Okami for the Wii. It's awesome, btw. But that's not the story.

I decide to check the PS2 section, and I find Arcana Heart on the shelves. They have like 3 copies left. So if anyone in the NYC area still needs to cop theirs, the gamestop over on Court Street (use zipcode 11201 to look it up) still has a few.

[Sabin]

Anyone wanna try these codes? Apparently you can play as Mildred on the ps2 using Gameshark, but thats not all....


The Mildred Avalon (Arcana Mod) codes make it to where your chosen character can use Mildred's attacks. Using this code with any of the other character (besides Mildred) makes it to where your chosen character will have a different set of attacks/moves. This code can make some characters extremely powerful (and really cheap)...even more powerful than Mlldred Avalon herself. Also, only Mildred can do the "Angelic Beams of Destruction" attack (it is HER super attack after all). Plus, doing the Niptra grab attack with any other character (besides Mildred) will cause the game to freeze up.


Just for kicks, of course XD
http://www.atlus.com/new_forum/viewtopic.php?t=1136

[Net_Diver]

Ok, i hope this hasnt been covered yet (263ages is A LOT of reading...so it got skipped) But one of my fav moves with Heart is 236 durring that 236AB. The AB super wall hits i think. Is there a way to combo right after this attack or do you just have to home befor they get up. I use it last... usually something basic like A, A, B, 2C, HC, 236C, 236AB ???? Thanks.

[AlterGenesis]

The only way you can combo from that super is if they decide not to homing tech. Which is very rare. Even if you homing cancel, they will still homing tech before you arrive.

[orka]

you can 236a+b > 6hc > 236a+b midscreen, but that's about it

heart doesn't have any moves that are fast enough to catch up to it in a normal combo range

[Bill307]

If you want to do something really flashy, you can use Dieu Mort's teleport super to trade places with your opponent right after 236A+B (before they hit the wall), then continue the combo. :bgrin:

By the way, you can connect 2C 236A without having to homing cancel the 2C.

[Net_Diver]

so the 236AB super should be left as a combo ender?? I use the Bhanri Arcana aswell. Any good air combos for her 236D move?? like a juggle type of move? (im very new to this game. A mounth before the concole release was the first i ever heard about it)

[Bill307]

Yeah, Heart's 236A+B is basically a combo ender. :smile:

I don't recall ever seeing any lightning attacks used in any of Heart's combos. (And there are quite a few Bolt Heart players.) In general, I don't think any character uses those attacks in the middle of their combos except Maori.

The attacks can be used to start combos, and sometimes you can end a combo with them. Example: if you hold 236236D and then guardbreak someone with 3[C] or 6[C], you can release the lightning super to hit them immediately after the guardbreak (before they go flying away), and then you can do a short aerial combo. Another example: you may be able to combo into 236D, 236236D, and/or 632146D off of a 3[C] launcher -- on hit or on guardbreak. You'll have to experiment with that one for yourself to see what works. Personally, I recommend 632146D or 6[HC] 632146D (depending on spacing) as a follow-up to 3[C], if you have a super bar to spare.

... Oh wait, are you asking for aerial combos you can use after 236D or 236236D hit? I suggest looking at the Wiki in that case:
http://guardcrush.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Probably something like j.A j.B j.4B etc.

[Net_Diver]

Thanks a lot Bill...i was asking if it was possible to combo, 236D, then home or IAD, combo...something like that, like catch um in the air from 236D. im not that good at the air combos yet, so what iv been doing is small basic ground, then a knock up (either golf swing or uppercut super HC) then hit once or twice then knock down with 2C, home, combo....
yeah, ive seen a lot of the Wiki..damn good site :)

Also, Heart is my main, but im learning Mei Fang as my second.....i REALLY want to use Time arcana with her....i know a few players really suck with time (like Maori's posion loop can only use Deu Mort) Is Time a decent arcana for Mei Fang??? if not, what are some popular ones for her??

[Gasaraki]

Time isn't a good arcana for most people. Some can make it work like Kamui, but most no. Also as Heartnana has stated, it's a very difficult Arcana to use when you're starting out and should be avoided when you're new.

[Bill307]

I know I've seen Time Mei Fang in a combo video, and I might've seen her used in a real match, once. I'm really not sure how good it is for her, but I do know her best Arcanas are Fire, Water, and Gier.


Phew, so I reached Mildred with Fiona in Story Mode. Even on just 4 stars, she was HARD and frustrating like heck. I noticed that she has a tendency to do most of her attacks outside of the range of Fiona's normals, but within range of Grand Divide, so the rounds became a home run contest: could I hit enough clean hits to either kill her or win by time out? Eventually, I got lucky enough to win like that :sweat:. Turns out Fiona, in addition to getting different dialog out of Mildred, also has a much different ending from the other characters. :smile: (The fight was almost kinda fun, too: I went nuts whenever I got a clean hit. :looney:)

Oh yeah, I figured out something: if you win the 1st fight (against the giant cocoon and 2 basketballs) then Mildred starts out with 0 supers in the 2nd fight. If you lose, she starts with 9. (The music is different, too.) But I don't think it really matters, since she builds metre during the fight and even then, she tends to build it faster than she randomly supers.

[Faight]

I'd play Time Mei-Fang if I could figure out some combos for her that didn't rely on already having random charged C's lying around the screen. Granted, I haven't really delved that deep in to Time, but Gier gets a little old after a while.

[Farpenoodle]

As long as you can keep her knocked down it's not hard to keep her from spamming supers.

[Lobelia Prime]

I'd play Time Mei-Fang if I could figure out some combos for her that didn't rely on already having random charged C's lying around the screen. Granted, I haven't really delved that deep in to Time, but Gier gets a little old after a while.

GOD YOUR AVATAR IS THE BEST AVATAR ON SRK



*ahem* If Gier gets old, you could always give Niptra a whirl. Niptra is my arcana of choice, and I play Kamui with it.

[Gasaraki]

Niptra's boring too though, just bubble every single chance you get and play like you normally do. Well, and 360 super on GC and stuff. Not that it's bad or anything.

[Sugarmilktea]

Ok, i hope this hasnt been covered yet (263ages is A LOT of reading...so it got skipped) But one of my fav moves with Heart is 236 durring that 236AB. The AB super wall hits i think. Is there a way to combo right after this attack or do you just have to home befor they get up. I use it last... usually something basic like A, A, B, 2C, HC, 236C, 236AB ???? Thanks.
236AB can never be combo of a normal opponent with stocks of homing guage available. This is because they can tech off the wall.

so the 236AB super should be left as a combo ender?? I use the Bhanri Arcana aswell. Any good air combos for her 236D move?? like a juggle type of move? (im very new to this game. A mounth before the concole release was the first i ever heard about it)
236AB should never be left as combo ender due to a few reason, unable to follow up with knock down. Unable to set up wake up mind games after that. Use 623ab instead it'll do you more good follow it up with homing with ur aerial + knockdown combo or just a end the combo with a knockdown instead.

Thanks a lot Bill...i was asking if it was possible to combo, 236D, then home or IAD, combo...something like that, like catch um in the air from 236D. im not that good at the air combos yet, so what iv been doing is small basic ground, then a knock up (either golf swing or uppercut super HC) then hit once or twice then knock down with 2C, home, combo....
yeah, ive seen a lot of the Wiki..damn good site :)
236D will not be able to follow up with home iad or combo due to it teachable upon hit.

[pbj_mixxa]

Heart's 236AB's a good combo finisher in either of these scenarios:

1. You have no homing meter. It gives you a chance to rethink your approach before continuing. Also note that, despite your opponent being able to tech of the wall, the advantage is still slightly to your favor as they are limited on where they can move to and are in the air.

2. You use water arcana. Canceling from the super to bubble super let's you dash in for easy pressure without having to use your homing gauge. Since you'll have 3 bubbles out, your opponent will have to put any and all counter strats aside.

... those are the only situations I can think of concerning 236AB. I tend to rarely use 623AB for the sake of conserving meter usage for bubbles.

[Net_Diver]

....well thanks lol....now my intire world is crumbled and im comboless lol...
Yes... Faight DOES have the greatest Avitar on SRK.
I guess i'll get on Arcana Hate and try some of the combos posted there. If Mei Fangs best arcanas are fire, water, and gier...i guess ill try water and fire and pick my fav between the two. Thanks for the help.

Also, i STILL havn't beat the story mode...i even put it down to the easyest mode and she still beats me. not by much, but i get her to like....2 hits and she spams her angle death rain super on me and i cant get out of the way in time.

[Lobelia Prime]

Niptra's boring too though, just bubble every single chance you get and play like you normally do. Well, and 360 super on GC and stuff. Not that it's bad or anything.

I <3 Niptra. Bubbles ftw, they make everything safe. :rofl:

[Sabin]

Niptra is too good actually, thats why shit got changed in the 2nd game, lol. At least for rushdown characters, anyway. Combo into Niptra bubbles super, then combo again, rinse, repeat until death, and as Gasaraki said GC6 into command throw super is always really nice.

[Sumaragi]

It works in most situations, but it doesn't work in every situation. Say, for example, you're fighting Kira. Most of her attacks can take out multiple bubbles in one hit, especially 6C. Gier also trounces bubbles.

[Lobelia Prime]

Niptra is too good actually, thats why shit got changed in the 2nd game, lol. At least for rushdown characters, anyway. Combo into Niptra bubbles super, then combo again, rinse, repeat until death, and as Gasaraki said GC6 into command throw super is always really nice.

Ohh, so Niptra's...what, bottom tier in AH2?

[TTZ231]

^ why is your samus asian?

[Sabin]

It works in most situations, but it doesn't work in every situation. Say, for example, you're fighting Kira. Most of her attacks can take out multiple bubbles in one hit, especially 6C. Gier also trounces bubbles.

Right, which is why I said, combo, into niptra super, into rushdown, combo again, repeat. In that kind of situation you're not really going to get a Kira 6C in there, especially not if youre in the corner. and you had just ate a fat combo.

Also, Gier super beats bubbles, not Gier by itself, and only in specific situations. The 3 fishes will cancel out the bubbles, but all that does is reset the offensive/defensive situation back to neutral whereas it would be heavily tilted torwards the Niptra user. If you have no super, or, are getting rushed down so hard that you arent in a position to cast the super AND hit them with the bubbles, its not really going to mean much.

And yeah, there are specific situations and moves which will cancel out Niptra bubbles like you said. It's still a good arcana. Some people use it against Kamui while rushing her down, beacuse if she hits a bubble, she'll have laggy recovery on her normals, enough to get a fat combo in. She has to block and break grabs all day.

Lobelia: Arcana 2 is too much in flux to say exactly whats bottom tier or not yet, espiecially with the 2.1 patch coming but Niptra is totally different in that game, it's not really like this game. You have to do a extra move to summon the water bubbles around you. It isn't used as much as part 1.

[Lobelia Prime]

^ why is your samus asian?

Because American girls can't cosplay worth a shit. Case in point:
http://static.pici.se/pictures/xklNpFzjI.jpg

[Sumaragi]

Right, which is why I said, combo, into niptra super, into rushdown, combo again, repeat. In that kind of situation you're not really going to get a Kira 6C in there, especially not if youre in the corner. and you had just ate a fat combo.

Also, Gier super beats bubbles, not Gier by itself, and only in specific situations. The 3 fishes will cancel out the bubbles, but all that does is reset the offensive/defensive situation back to neutral whereas it would be heavily tilted torwards the Niptra user. If you have no super, or, are getting rushed down so hard that you arent in a position to cast the super AND hit them with the bubbles, its not really going to mean much.

And yeah, there are specific situations and moves which will cancel out Niptra bubbles like you said. It's still a good arcana. Some people use it against Kamui while rushing her down, beacuse if she hits a bubble, she'll have laggy recovery on her normals, enough to get a fat combo in. She has to block and break grabs all day.

Lobelia: Arcana 2 is too much in flux to say exactly whats bottom tier or not yet, espiecially with the 2.1 patch coming but Niptra is totally different in that game, it's not really like this game. You have to do a extra move to summon the water bubbles around you. It isn't used as much as part 1.

I didn't mean to say that it was a bad arcana. It was more in response to the idea that water makes "everything" safe.

[HARD BREAD]

Because American girls can't cosplay worth a shit. Case in point:
http://static.pici.se/pictures/xklNpFzjI.jpg

that has to be a man...i see bulge...almost like they tried the tape trick....horrible costume btw :shake:

[Lobelia Prime]

that has to be a man...i see bulge...almost like they tried the tape trick....horrible costume btw :shake:

Yeah, it really is a bad costume. But check out what Japan's capable of.
http://news.filefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/samuscosplay2-1.jpg

Now let's stop talking about Samus in the Arcana Heart thread.
Are the waterfall attacks that Niptra has useful under any circumstances?

[HeartNana]

Yeah, it really is a bad costume. But check out what Japan's capable of.
http://news.filefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/samuscosplay2-1.jpg

Now let's stop talking about Samus in the Arcana Heart thread.
Are the waterfall attacks that Niptra has useful under any circumstances?

Short answer is No.

If you want a longer answer, theres some circumstances where you can kinda throw them out for chip or to be fancy, but overall, you really shouldn't have time to set out bubbles like that. Its not worth the 3 step process used to make the waterfall, and you should concentrate more on hitting your opp while bubbles are out rather than focusing on waterfall nonsense.

[Lobelia Prime]

Short answer is No.

If you want a longer answer, theres some circumstances where you can kinda throw them out for chip or to be fancy, but overall, you really shouldn't have time to set out bubbles like that. Its not worth the 3 step process used to make the waterfall, and you should concentrate more on hitting your opp while bubbles are out rather than focusing on waterfall nonsense.

Got it. Good shit, thanks dude. :tup:
I'm practicing with Kamui so that I can step my game up when I move to dat Ay Tee Ell.

[Mizuki]

Any yall Norcal peeps available tommorow I'm going to GZR nights @ Chabot and bringing Arcana Heart. Tell peeps who are in norcal to go and check out the time of the thread. I already got 2 possible peeps heading down to play. Get hype mother fuckers.

[Net_Diver]

^^ it seems to me that most new players pick Kamui first (i guess the sword makes them feel safe) but that one move where they rush and draw slash, then its like red flame and a short pause before the dmg is delt....i f-ing HATE that move!!! my friend got me with it like 50 times (he cant beat me with out it) whats the best way around it??? i tryed everything...block (works, but its hard) i tryed to clash him, i used my arcana force (but thats only once) i need to actually LEARN some good combos.

Whats are some good wake up moves with Heart?? whenever i get knocked down hes right there and as soon as im up in allready getting hit. Its hard to stay on the defencive cause you lose control.

[pbj_mixxa]

Whats are some good wake up moves with Heart??

dp, dp super, or dp into dp super. If he's just aimlessly rushing you after a knockdown, he won't even beat dp let alone dp super. Don't overdo it, though, coz it's easy to bait.

[BlackShinobi]

If you guard cancel towards her after you block it you can punish it, or you force her to cancel. In which case he just wasted a level and you aren't on the defensive anymore.
Either way it should make him stop using the move so much

[Net_Diver]

ok im new, so whats dp and dp super??? i assume dp is down punch? (2a) but im not sure. Also, hes not so much aimlessly rushing, hes just allways ready to throw it out, so when i come in, i catch it right to the face.

I think he got pissed because i came up with this BASIC combo he couldnt beat, something like:
6A, 421B, 236C, HC, 3C, A, jB, 2C, Home, 2C

Really pissed him off cause hes worthless in the air and i was chaseing and juggleing him all over....really pissed him off (got him with 623C, HC, 2C a few times....its harder cause the HC)
so he would just throw it...ened up beating me a few rounds....i think it was 14-4 when we quit so its not like i have anything to bitch about really lol i just hate that move lol

[Nastrodamus]

ok im new, so whats dp and dp super??? i assume dp is down punch? (2a) but im not sure. Also, hes not so much aimlessly rushing, hes just allways ready to throw it out, so when i come in, i catch it right to the face.

I think he got pissed because i came up with this BASIC combo he couldnt beat, something like:
6A, 421B, 236C, HC, 3C, A, jB, 2C, Home, 2C

Really pissed him off cause hes worthless in the air and i was chaseing and juggleing him all over....really pissed him off (got him with 623C, HC, 2C a few times....its harder cause the HC)
so he would just throw it...ened up beating me a few rounds....i think it was 14-4 when we quit so its not like i have anything to bitch about really lol i just hate that move lol



dp=dragon punch or 623 a, b, or c

[Net_Diver]

lol right. Im pritty used to the numbers so dragon punch and fireball throw me off....TY

[Capps Indigo]

Whats are some good wake up moves with Heart?? whenever i get knocked down hes right there and as soon as im up in allready getting hit. Its hard to stay on the defencive cause you lose control.

my recommendation: block. not even joking. if youre getting hit as soon as you wakeup you need to focus on your fundamentals before you move on to reversals and more fancy stuff. b/c unless you have good fundamentals in the first place, your wakeup options are going to get stuffed.. b/c youre going to be missing 1 frame reversal timing. yes, even dp will be stuffed b/c it will never even get a chance to come out.

ok im new... BASIC combo ... hes worthless in the air ... just hate that move...

theres random helpful posts throughout the thread to go ahead and flip thru the past few pages. combos have been posted as well as other advice. also, read the first post, arcana wiki (link in the first post), and watch some vids on youtube.

as for your friend, if hes 'worthless in the air' the just fight him there till he figures out a way around it.

and the same goes to you, keep experimenting till you find a way around those annoying moves. a lot of the fun is having something that frustrates you and finding a way around it. as long as you keep trying new things (dont do the same thing over and over again), youre bound to at some random moment be like, 'oh, omg.. that works. ill try that again next time.'

[Net_Diver]

Ok. Thanks man.

This one is a little off topic from what i was talking about, but...
another friend of mine has AH japanese release and you can push some button that flips your arcana card over so you cant see what arcana you are picking.
My stick i play with is one i made, and for some reason when you go to select screen your card is fliped when you pick your arcana..
So what button do you push to do this so i can get in my stick and fiqure out what button is glitching?
Thanks!

[HeartNana]

should be the start button.

[Net_Diver]

Could it be select?

[HeartNana]

possibly, might be either or.

[Faight]

Someone mentioned a Time Mei-Fang comobo video? I played around with her all afternoon in time and the only setups I could find that were worthwhile to land the time super were like knockdown -> Charge 6C -> Super -> Release C, which doesn't seem reliable at all to me.

Also time kills her BNB. I'd like to see the video, but I think I'll stick with Gier for real matches.

[orka]

how to become good with maori:


drop yo pants
do what you gotta do, yung whippa snappa

[someAzNdude]

Someone mentioned a Time Mei-Fang comobo video? I played around with her all afternoon in time and the only setups I could find that were worthwhile to land the time super were like knockdown -> Charge 6C -> Super -> Release C, which doesn't seem reliable at all to me.

Also time kills her BNB. I'd like to see the video, but I think I'll stick with Gier for real matches.

the time combo mei fang had was fancy and non-practical, like alot of those cool ass looking combos you see in videos but does no damage and are hard as fuck to do :|
well at least from the video I saw... >_>

how to become good with maori:


drop yo pants
do what you gotta do, yung whippa snappa


Why are you so awesome? D:

[Sabin]

time meifang combo:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VCJSVE_Xg04
<- 1:16

very impractical, but daaamn i cant lie its a sexy combo

[Finkledoodoo]

I was wondering if anyone can tell me the fundamental of lieselotte?
I really only see loop combos. Watching match vids, I can't see what the basic playstyle is with her. Is she simply a character that can only be played in an advanced way? I know that ahf players are always trying to get loops, but I know that heart and mei-fang can just beat you down. I know that kira can just throw and super rape you. I was just wondering if lieselotte had a more begginer friendly playstyle.

[Sabin]

how to become good with maori:


drop yo pants
do what you gotta do, yung whippa snappa



actually, maori players everywhere should watch this video http://youtube.com/watch?v=aBShEJM-pAo but your response cracke dme up lolz

I was wondering if anyone can tell me the fundamental of lieselotte?
I really only see loop combos. Watching match vids, I can't see what the basic playstyle is with her. Is she simply a character that can only be played in an advanced way? I know that ahf players are always trying to get loops, but I know that heart and mei-fang can just beat you down. I know that kira can just throw and super rape you. I was just wondering if lieselotte had a more begginer friendly playstyle.


sorry to disappoint you man, shes the #1 chararacter in AHF, but beginner friendly she is not. she requires good doll management, which requires you to be thinking ahead of the opponent most of the time. also, you need a COMPLETE understanding of arcana, and the engine in general in order to play her well.

i mean, just watch this video of me vs otk (one of the best liz players hands down)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2893358623883518292&q=sabin+vs+otk&ei=-uwaSMzmK6j0qgOy4oy6AQ

He uses multiple arcanas and has a excellent grasp of the engine...its obvious by watching her play that shes not a beginner friendly char at all.

i mean meta or zar (who are the only liz players in USA fyi) can probably elaborate some more on this. i dont play her

[Faight]

time meifang combo:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VCJSVE_Xg04
<- 1:16

very impractical, but daaamn i cant like its a sexy combo

I'll take a look when I get home, work blocks youtube. Thanks <3

I was wondering if anyone can tell me the fundamental of lieselotte?
I really only see loop combos. Watching match vids, I can't see what the basic playstyle is with her. Is she simply a character that can only be played in an advanced way? I know that ahf players are always trying to get loops, but I know that heart and mei-fang can just beat you down. I know that kira can just throw and super rape you. I was just wondering if lieselotte had a more begginer friendly playstyle.

Lies doesn't really have a beginner friendly playstyle. She is all about the loop and her retardely good okizeme (owning their wakeup). That's why people thought she was shit when AH first came out, because none of her stuff is newb friendly. The loop is, in all honesty, not that hard in the corner, it's the midscreen stuff that'll make or break your Lies. Once you get them to the corner it's all about setting up the puppet on the ground to lock them in place so you can 6C or high/low mix them up or do her command throw. That's a really simplified explanation, needless to say she's considered to be one of the best characters for a reason, and it's not because she's easy to use.

[Sabin]

Lies doesn't really have a beginner friendly playstyle. She is all about the loop and her retardely good okizeme (owning their wakeup). That's why people thought she was shit when AH first came out, because none of her stuff is newb friendly. The loop is, in all honesty, not that hard in the corner, it's the midscreen stuff that'll make or break your Lies. Once you get them to the corner it's all about setting up the puppet on the ground to lock them in place so you can 6C or high/low mix them up or do her command throw. That's a really simplified explanation, needless to say she's considered to be one of the best characters for a reason, and it's not because she's easy to use.

truth, id also like to add that liselotte is the #1 character when it comes to making the clash system work in her favor, hands down, which is another reason why shes top tier. For many reasons

which is another thing id like to bring up...people talk about combos and ask for combo help on this thread, which is good and all, because this game DOES require combo practice...but the other half of your skillset in this game comes from how well you can deal with situations post clash. a lot of times, you can avoid big damage or get into a HUGELY advantageous situation for yourself just because you knew what to do post-clash. which is often HIGHLY overlooked...i understand why though....anyway, if you want to become top in this game its not going to happen without understanding the clash system to the fullest.

[Net_Diver]

TY Sabin.. ive been having that prob a lot. I use Bhanri, so i REALLY need to learn clash. Some times ill clash a move and then be like "ok, well i killed their move, but now where do i go?" so even tho i clashed, i still get beat

[Aqua Snake]

My copy would have been in my hands, but we're relocating and the mail was re-routed to our soon to be new location.

Fucking Iraq. :annoy:

[orka]

TY Sabin.. ive been having that prob a lot. I use Bhanri, so i REALLY need to learn clash. Some times ill clash a move and then be like "ok, well i killed their move, but now where do i go?" so even tho i clashed, i still get beat

for now... learn the following


react to clash.
what your character's effective clash moves are.
what your character's options are after clashing.
no move can be repeated directly after a clash.


clashing just seems brainless and silly at times (especially bhanri players), but there is a very deep mind game involved to them at higher levels. for example, here is a hypothetical match between maori and kamui at the beginning of a round:



kamui players like to begin the opening of the round with 5b, a very good poke. the move has average speed for a standing b, but it has very impressive range. kamui gets a free 5c > 41236a pressure string on block or hit... and she also has the option to do 5c > 236a+b if she has super meter.
maori's common answer against the above is 5c, which has very long clash frames starting from start-up of the move. upon confirming the clash, maori can cancel into 421c, which will effectively stuff kamui's poke options, 236a+b and 623b/c.
however, if the kamui player expects the maori player to 5c (clash ) > 421c, he can counter that with 41236c, which will go under tsuzune and knock maori to the other side of the screen.
maori player, on the other hand, could bait kamui's 41236c by just letting the 5c double clash (it is one of the few normals in the game with active clash frames long enough to cause a double clash) and do a delayed 421c... or just cancel into level 3 arrow super on the first clash.
on and on...


a lot of beginners think arcana heart is all about long-ass damage combos, which is true, but what really distinguishes this game from others in terms of play style is not the combos or the arcana combinations... but two players fighting over multiple yomi layers brought forth by elements like clashing, guard canceling, activating, etc.

[Net_Diver]

hum...i guess it might take longer to learn than expected lol
The last game i got really good at was SC2. my Xianqua was pritty bad ass for a while. But when you lose that 3rd demension it changes the intire consept. so im starting from the ground up here. I have a friend who is REALLY bad ass...but hes moveing to japan for a year soon so im left with shitty players who dont know much more that i do. (no arcade here either)

[Bill307]

I was wondering if anyone can tell me the fundamental of lieselotte?
I really only see loop combos. Watching match vids, I can't see what the basic playstyle is with her. Is she simply a character that can only be played in an advanced way? I know that ahf players are always trying to get loops, but I know that heart and mei-fang can just beat you down. I know that kira can just throw and super rape you. I was just wondering if lieselotte had a more begginer friendly playstyle.
Well, this weekend I'm hoping to put my Lieselotte against some human opponents for the first time, so I'll let you know if I find any "beginner-friendly playstyle" that works out for me. Some of the matches should be recorded, too, so I'll try to remember to record some with my beginner Liese :razz:.

I posted a "beginner-friendly" midscreen combo for Liese a couple pages back. Juggling the opponent midscreen between Liese and her doll takes some practice, mostly to learn the timing of when to press buttons. Once the timing becomes habitual, it's actually not too hard to do. :smile:

I've also briefly practiced comboing off of her 214A+B super. However I have *not* successfully learned any of the endings to her combos that leave the opponent grounded and cornered, so we'll see how I manage without them, or if I can improvise some on-the-fly (right now I'm thinking I'll use j.2B+C to put them on the ground, even though they can homing tech after it).

So yeah, hopefully AHF is a go on Saturday, and hopefully I won't lose too badly with her. :wink:

[Gasaraki]

Yeah I've gotten to that point where it seems like there isn't much use for training mode, aside from the obvious. I mean you can't train to react to clashes or random high-altitude mid-air attacks that land and actually combo off of them. Shit can only be done in matches. I wish I had someone to play more often =/

[Aka no Tsuki]

Yeah I've gotten to that point where it seems like there isn't much use for training mode, aside from the obvious. I mean you can't train to react to clashes or random high-altitude mid-air attacks that land and actually combo off of them. Shit can only be done in matches. I wish I had someone to play more often =/

Yeah I wish there are more people around who plays AH. At least I can have some matches with you on weekends, but it would be great if there're more players for casuals.

We need more players in Los Angeles area! :rock:

[Faight]

My copy would have been in my hands, but we're relocating and the mail was re-routed to our soon to be new location.

Fucking Iraq. :annoy:

I feel your pain my friend, I ordered my copy while I was over there. It was hand carried to me by another SRKer (Renegade) when he came over. Other than my handful of games in Japan in R&R and the few I played at C3 he's the only human competition I have had. And he's good at Kira. I hate Kira.

[Net_Diver]

now im really confused. I was at GuardCrush, and it has this combo listed as Hearts "basic starter combo"--2A, 2B, 2C, 236A, HC6, 5A, 6B, iad, j.B, 6B, j.B, 5A, j.A, j.B, jc, j.B, j.2C

so why do you need to iad and j.B when 6B dosnt air the enemy?

[Sabin]

I deleted Shinto's Heart wiki due to shittiness. I'm ired of seeing everyone get confused. Will do over when I get some free time.

[Aka no Tsuki]

now im really confused. I was at GuardCrush, and it has this combo listed as Hearts "basic starter combo"--2A, 2B, 2C, 236A, HC6, 5A, 6B, iad, j.B, 6B, j.B, 5A, j.A, j.B, jc, j.B, j.2C

so why do you need to iad and j.B when 6B dosnt air the enemy?

Opponent is already in the air after the 2C.

I use something like 2A, 2B, 2C, 236A, HC6, 5A, 6B, IAD jB, land 6B, IAD jB, j4B, land, jA jB jB, djA djB dj2C instead.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/ArcanaHeartBreak/index.php?showtopic=33

[Net_Diver]

but isnt 2C the low trip that lands them on the ground? then 236A is the love punch??

[Faight]

but isnt 2C the low trip that lands them on the ground? then 236A is the love punch??

Yes it is. The sweep puts them in the air, then you hit them with the tekken love punch, homing cancel forward (hold forward and hit the homing cancel button; S button if you're on the US console release), 5A, 6B, instant air dash, etc etc. They will be airborne after the 2C, but it's not a big launcher. A lot of the combos in this game involve juggling them a few inches off of the ground (see: Mei-Fang, Heart, Saki, Lies, Kira's loop, etc).

edit: not the best combo video, but it shows you what it should look like: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jsAFgq5cxz0

[Aka no Tsuki]

That's the idea, after the trip, you need to juggle him and keep him from landing on the ground. 236A is the forward rushing punch.

[Net_Diver]

ok. so your IAD basicly glides acrost the ground? i see iad and i think like, two body lenghts from the floor.

[BlackShinobi]

ok. so your IAD basicly glides acrost the ground? i see iad and i think like, two body lenghts from the floor.

the height for IAD should be right around your opponent's head level for normal height opponents

[Stuart Hayden]

Just got it today.

Attempting to learn Loli-Skates.

[Lobelia Prime]

Just got it today.

Attempting to learn Loli-Skates.

Lilica ain't easy, but if you can learn her, more power to ya. She's worth the trouble.
But she still isn't as beautiful as my Kamui. Mmmm...Kamui.....

[Faight]

Lilica ain't easy, but if you can learn her, more power to ya. She's worth the trouble.
But she still isn't as beautiful as my Kamui. Mmmm...Kamui.....

That butch bitch? I'll take Mei-Fang with her monster titties any day. I like breasts that you can drown in.

[Lobelia Prime]

That butch bitch? I'll take Mei-Fang with her monster titties any day. I like breasts that you can drown in.

Oh, don't get me wrong, no one likes breasts more than me, but.....I have a little bit of an issue with breasts if they are...ah...detachable....

[jinogre]

I'm looking for any info I can get for Lilica, b&b combos and tatics, best arcana to use with her, anything anyone's got. Thanks.

[Sugarmilktea]

I deleted Shinto's Heart wiki due to shittiness. I'm ired of seeing everyone get confused. Will do over when I get some free time.
I'll help out if you need since we dont have ah2 here yet or anytime soon:wgrin:

I'm looking for any info I can get for Lilica, b&b combos and tatics, best arcana to use with her, anything anyone's got. Thanks.
Check the first page and look at the guardcrush wiki. All the info you need is there

[pbj_mixxa]

Well, since I'm one of the few Heart players that's ever contributed anything, I can help out with the Heart wiki as well. I will admit, though, I too had issues with it... but I assumed it was just my scrubbiness.

[Net_Diver]

well Capps,I know what IAD means and everything, I just didnt know it could be done that low. I thought in the air meant actually IN the AIR. Like with her uppercut or something. I went to a friends house today and he showed me a good combo to learn. I got the first part allmost down. When i get it all down i should have a decent understanding of how to do most things.

2A, 2B, 2C, 236A, HC6, 5A, 6B, iad, j.A, j.C, short dash, 5C, iad, j.A, j.C, short dash, 5C, iad, j.A, j.C, short dash, 5A, j.A, j.B, j.4B, DJ, j.B, j.2C

[Mango91]

Ugh, I'm a huge Saki fan, but for some reason I keep messing up her basic combo.

2a 2b 2c 6d 5a 5c IAD jb land 5b 5c IAD jb land and then I usually whiff the tenth hit because the opponent air recovers. Is there some sort of timing trick?

[orka]

Ugh, I'm a huge Saki fan, but for some reason I keep messing up her basic combo.

2a 2b 2c 6d 5a 5c IAD jb land 5b 5c IAD jb land and then I usually whiff the tenth hit because the opponent air recovers. Is there some sort of timing trick?

one or both of following problems could be causing this:


opponent is too high.
opponent is pushed too far back.

the first problem can be easily resolved by trying to land the first j.b as late as possible. the second problem has to do with how close you land the first 5c (which can't always be controlled well).

at any rate, saki's long combo with 1 homing meter (2a > 2b > 2c > 6hc > 5a > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.a > j.c > dash > j.a > j.4b > jc > j.b > j.c > 623x) isn't always guaranteed mid-screen. i personally don't go for it unless i'm in the corner or i'm really, really sure that she is close enough at beginning of the combo.

if you're mid-screen, i would recommend just going for her shorter combo (2a > 2b > 2c > 6hc > 5a > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.b > j.c > land > dash > j.a > j.4b > jc > j.b > j.c > 623x). that's what most japanese players do as well.

however, her damage combo with the rush super (2a > 2b > 5c > 236a+b > 6hc before last hit > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.a > j.c > land > dash > j.a > j.4b > jc > j.b > j.c > 623x) should work anywhere on the screen without much problem.

[beatsstayflowin]

If I'm going to direct players to a forum, should I direct them to

Arcana Hate:
guardcrush.net
- OR -
Arcana Heart Break: http://z3.invisionfree.com/ArcanaHeartBreak/index.php?act=idx

One has a wiki. The other has a nice looking forum. I'm unsure as to whether either forum has active mods.

Or should I just use shoryuken's match making forum to find other players?

[Gasaraki]

well Capps,I know what IAD means and everything, I just didnt know it could be done that low. I thought in the air meant actually IN the AIR. Like with her uppercut or something. I went to a friends house today and he showed me a good combo to learn. I got the first part allmost down. When i get it all down i should have a decent understanding of how to do most things.

2A, 2B, 2C, 236A, HC6, 5A, 6B, iad, j.A, j.C, short dash, 5C, iad, j.A, j.C, short dash, 5C, iad, j.A, j.C, short dash, 5A, j.A, j.B, j.4B, DJ, j.B, j.2C

IAD doesn't mean In Air Dash, it means Instant Air Dash. So whenever someone says IAD they mean to AD as low as possible to the ground, as someone else said about your opponents head height. If done correctly, you shouldn't even go past them if done right next to them.

If you're playing on pad the easier way to do this is 96

[Net_Diver]

ok. so i can dash at right around head level (hear knee is on here head, the rest of her is just slightly above her head. is that low enough?

[BlackShinobi]

ok. so i can dash at right around head level (hear knee is on here head, the rest of her is just slightly above her head. is that low enough?

If its low enough to combo the next hit in a combo that requires an IAD then its low enough. Thats the easiest way to tell.

[Lobelia Prime]

Holy fucking hell, just got done with my first AHF Atlanta marathon with a friend of mine, and I gotta say a couple of things.
1. Kira is absurdly powerful.
2. It's nothing Kamui and her blade of destiny can't deal with. ^_^

[Stuart Hayden]

Yeah, Kira is pretty crazy. I'm liking her a lot.

[Gasaraki]

Holy fucking hell, just got done with my first AHF Atlanta marathon with a friend of mine, and I gotta say a couple of things.
1. Kira is absurdly powerful.
2. It's nothing Kamui and her blade of destiny can't deal with. ^_^

Yes I understand exactly, although Rob's still better than me so I still lose more often than not =(

[Faight]

`qQ1````````````CD ghlb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbg

Sorry, my cat who sleeps on my laptop somehow managed to post.

Detachable boobs rock, take em to work and get some use out of them there.

[meta]

There's been some liese discussion that I missed, but Liese has a ton of variety on how she plays. You can play her really really defensively (run away orb spam style) or offensively (run at you orb spam style). And toss in arcanas into the mix and you can be pretty creative. A good chunk of her damage comes from making random orb hits (mainly from 421 orb) turn into huge combo loops you can start with j.ab2c (your doll will actually be in a good spot most of the time, and then reorient it with j.c to face the right direction or if it's already facing the right direction use j.a b 2b+c), which aren't any different from her normal combos.

As far as combos are concerned, the posts in this thread are really really good: http://www.guardcrush.net/forums/showthread.php?t=922

The 2 midscreen combo starters that you should only really need are:

1: (doll in case) ab5c 236b/c IAD j.b (land) 5a j.ab2c (into doll loop)
2: (doll in case) ab2c 6hc 5ab j.a (1 hit) b 236b airdash a (1 hit) dj.a (2 hits) j.2b+c (into doll loop)

Just to note though that after the j.2c, the timing for when you hit b for the doll claw is different for both combos. For the first one, you hit b almost instant after the j2.c. For the second combo, Liese is higher so that means you have to hit j.b a tad later. If you hit b too late, they won't pop up as high, in which case you'll have to dash right when you land and pop them up with 5a or 6b into the loop.

Then there's variations with that if your doll is out of the case, but if your doll is in the case, you really shouldn't need to do anything else when you hit them. If they block your stuff, there's a BILLION different set ups to choose from that you can be creative with.

As a side note: a good chunk of stuff you see in combo videos with like grabs setups and stuff, usually don't work against a smart opponent since in combo vids the cpu training dummy is standing still opposed to your opponent who can pretty much guard cancel at any time and mess everything up.

[Mango91]

one or both of following problems could be causing this:


opponent is too high.
opponent is pushed too far back.

the first problem can be easily resolved by trying to land the first j.b as late as possible. the second problem has to do with how close you land the first 5c (which can't always be controlled well).

at any rate, saki's long combo with 1 homing meter (2a > 2b > 2c > 6hc > 5a > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.a > j.c > dash > j.a > j.4b > jc > j.b > j.c > 623x) isn't always guaranteed mid-screen. i personally don't go for it unless i'm in the corner or i'm really, really sure that she is close enough at beginning of the combo.

if you're mid-screen, i would recommend just going for her shorter combo (2a > 2b > 2c > 6hc > 5a > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.b > j.c > land > dash > j.a > j.4b > jc > j.b > j.c > 623x). that's what most japanese players do as well.

however, her damage combo with the rush super (2a > 2b > 5c > 236a+b > 6hc before last hit > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.b > land > 5b > 5c > iad > j.a > j.c > land > dash > j.a > j.4b > jc > j.b > j.c > 623x) should work anywhere on the screen without much problem.

Ahhh, I was afraid that it would have to do with timing. Thanks a bunch for all the advice. I appreciate it very much.

Also, I've heard that Saki's j. 3c is very good to mix in with pressure, but how am I supposed to execute it? Like, after a string is blocked, I usually do a quick sj and then an even quicker j. 3c in case the opponent thought I was done. But I was also wondering about an IAD and then the j. 3c, but not only is that a little hard for me to do, but it kinda leaves me vulnerable since that probably gives the opponent enough time to respond with an attack.

[Aka no Tsuki]

Yes I understand exactly, although Rob's still better than me so I still lose more often than not =(

He destroys me. I have no answer against his Kira with Fiona. I dunno what to do when he superjumped right above me into the body splash.

Like I got some rounds if I play relatively well, but I can't seem to get a match from his Kira.

I kinda spend entire rounds trying to avoid having Kira directly above me. I've been trying to get out of that corner too without eating throw mixups, but one wallbounce throw and I'm back in there lol.

I need to be more careful with Fiona's 2B, he kinda 4GC into grab with that one.

That fire wall loop was looong, and he can do variations of the combo to try to grab me or something.

Kira is freaking scary. 2 wrong guesses and I'm done.

[BlackShinobi]

Ahhh, I was afraid that it would have to do with timing. Thanks a bunch for all the advice. I appreciate it very much.

Also, I've heard that Saki's j. 3c is very good to mix in with pressure, but how am I supposed to execute it? Like, after a string is blocked, I usually do a quick sj and then an even quicker j. 3c in case the opponent thought I was done. But I was also wondering about an IAD and then the j. 3c, but not only is that a little hard for me to do, but it kinda leaves me vulnerable since that probably gives the opponent enough time to respond with an attack.

When you do it correctly she should barely leave the ground and its a pretty fast overhead that lead to a combo if it connects

watch this - Brandon loves that stupid move
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT7FDMKmvIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ3T9Grt9Q0&feature=related

[Mango91]

Oh alrighty then, I see. Thanks again.

[Gasaraki]

Did alot better today, I think I'm finally grapsing the air game with Konha cause I was actually able to out poke my opponents a good amount of the time. I still have problems following up properly all the time, but I'm getting there. Dropping the regular combos less too.

He destroys me. I have no answer against his Kira with Fiona. I dunno what to do when he superjumped right above me into the body splash.

Like I got some rounds if I play relatively well, but I can't seem to get a match from his Kira.

I kinda spend entire rounds trying to avoid having Kira directly above me. I've been trying to get out of that corner too without eating throw mixups, but one wallbounce throw and I'm back in there lol.

I need to be more careful with Fiona's 2B, he kinda 4GC into grab with that one.

That fire wall loop was looong, and he can do variations of the combo to try to grab me or something.

Kira is freaking scary. 2 wrong guesses and I'm done.
For the super jump thing, would 6HD be fast enough to avoid it possibly?

[Faight]

For the super jump thing, would 6HD be fast enough to avoid it possibly?

As Konoha I always dealt with superjump -> splash with either jumping up and air blocking, then 6HCing the 2B the Kira would do when they landed, or just getting the fuck out of there if I didn't have homing meter. It's a bad place to be at.

As Mei-Fang I just 6B, since hers beats splash I'll say 75% of the time, it feels like.

I don't really know much for Fiona vs Kira. All I can recommend is trying to find something to beat the splash with the majority of the time so he stops doing it. Kira players feel that sense of invulnerability when they splash because it's so good, and taking that away from them can often ruin the rest of their match if they don't really know any other ways in. I'd say go in to practice mode and see if any of the normals she has beat that splash, I'm thinking her 5C might but it's slow, so perhaps jumping and hitting something? Any of her specials with invulnerability? I know the sword flop has super armor, try that? Wish I could help more, but I never found Fiona to be a character I enjoyed.

Gasaraki: grats on dropping less combos. In all honesty it just comes with familiarity with the characters and with situations where you have the opportunity to land combos. Eventually it'll become less "I'm going to do 2ABC and see if it lands" and more "I'm going to punish their whiffed move/guard cancel/etc". Once you've gotten to the point where you can always do the bread and butter without fail then you can actually start focusing on the real fight instead of worrying about whether you can homing cancel in to 5B and then instant air dash.

Also, Konoha is pretty dominant in the air barring a few characters. I'm sure you're aware of how good her jB and j2C are. One thing I liked to do in knockdown situations was crossup j2C as they woke up, then double jump if they blocked it. If it landed you had plent of time to land and combo, if not you could double jump and pick which side you wanted to go to and repeat it, or cancel in to 22C then hit a direction. The pushback from the blocked j2C should push them far enough away that you'll whiff the 22C and you can either proceed to harrass them or roll out and rethink your approach. Also helps if you have Gier on the ground to punish any possible attempts to hit you, but then again having Gier already on the ground helps ensure rushdown anyways.

And for most characters jump over dash back is good. jB and jC are good for this with Konoha. Her hitboxes are wonky and I've actually done combos with her facing the opposite direction. She has one she can do with Gang Long where you get behind them and jB in to 236S a bunch of times. If you're interested I can try and find the combo again because it's funny as hell to watch how retarded Konoha's hitboxes are.

[BlackShinobi]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SENRFZc-IZY

backward combos are too funny.

[Aka no Tsuki]

Did alot better today, I think I'm finally grapsing the air game with Konha cause I was actually able to out poke my opponents a good amount of the time. I still have problems following up properly all the time, but I'm getting there. Dropping the regular combos less too.


For the super jump thing, would 6HD be fast enough to avoid it possibly?

I'll try 6D next time, it 'looks' a little slow though, but it's better than getting free pressure all the time.

I did better in the air too, finally using HC5 to move around in a meaningful way and landing those jB -> combos.

Your Konoha gave me more trouble today, while your Kamui gave me less. I think it means your Konoha practice is starting to pay off.

For Konoha I think you need to practice the crossup thing more, when White Rob did it the hitbox seems to catch me by surprise. Kinda reminds me of Iori's crossup kick.

I'm starting to get used to fighting Kamui and recognize the 'dead zone' where she'd outpoke me everytime. If only I can stop losing so horribly against Kira...



I don't really know much for Fiona vs Kira. All I can recommend is trying to find something to beat the splash with the majority of the time so he stops doing it. Kira players feel that sense of invulnerability when they splash because it's so good, and taking that away from them can often ruin the rest of their match if they don't really know any other ways in. I'd say go in to practice mode and see if any of the normals she has beat that splash, I'm thinking her 5C might but it's slow, so perhaps jumping and hitting something? Any of her specials with invulnerability? I know the sword flop has super armor, try that? Wish I could help more, but I never found Fiona to be a character I enjoyed.



I tried jB, and got smacked down really quickly. I'll try 6GC next time. Fiona's 5C might not cover her back side, and I've been eating crossup body splash too. Playing with him made me recognize that I have a very weak anti-air game with Fiona when the opponent is right above my head.

[Faight]

I tried jB, and got smacked down really quickly. I'll try 6GC next time. Fiona's 5C might not cover her back side, and I've been eating crossup body splash too. Playing with him made me recognize that I have a very weak anti-air game with Fiona when the opponent is right above my head.

Few people have anything to deal with Kira right over their head, most everyone gets stuffed. The trick is to make them think they can't safely do it, and the only ways I could do that with Konoha was to jump and 4GC (backwards) Kira's splash, then throw out something to try and punish them, leave Gier on the ground and release it just before I block to hit them while I block their attack, or switch to Mei-Fang and learn how to position yourself to 6B their big fat gelatinous ass as it fell down. Obviously if you're waking up all you can really do is super or DP to get out of it, but even then they could fake you out.

If you're playing Lang-Gong try using the explosion super. You can homing cancel it if they block too, which is a plus. I often used it on wakeup if they went for a crossup or were jumping in and I had no time to use any other options. Though this leads to Kira learning the range at which they can be hit, faking you out, and landing a free throw or combo, but eh, if you can make them scared to splash you've beaten a moderate portion of their game, and one of the methods she has for getting inside.

Or you can play Yoriko and 236C that shit every time, then homing cancel for a free combo, knockdown, and then Pentagram.

[Gasaraki]

Gasaraki: grats on dropping less combos. In all honesty it just comes with familiarity with the characters and with situations where you have the opportunity to land combos. Eventually it'll become less "I'm going to do 2ABC and see if it lands" and more "I'm going to punish their whiffed move/guard cancel/etc". Once you've gotten to the point where you can always do the bread and butter without fail then you can actually start focusing on the real fight instead of worrying about whether you can homing cancel in to 5B and then instant air dash.

Also, Konoha is pretty dominant in the air barring a few characters. I'm sure you're aware of how good her jB and j2C are. One thing I liked to do in knockdown situations was crossup j2C as they woke up, then double jump if they blocked it. If it landed you had plent of time to land and combo, if not you could double jump and pick which side you wanted to go to and repeat it, or cancel in to 22C then hit a direction. The pushback from the blocked j2C should push them far enough away that you'll whiff the 22C and you can either proceed to harrass them or roll out and rethink your approach. Also helps if you have Gier on the ground to punish any possible attempts to hit you, but then again having Gier already on the ground helps ensure rushdown anyways.

And for most characters jump over dash back is good. jB and jC are good for this with Konoha. Her hitboxes are wonky and I've