Mvc2:tier Changes

[epyonx]

HOW HAS THE TIERS BEEN EFFECTED WITH NEW OR SEMI-THINGS POPPING UP CHANGING THE GAME WITH BE PLAYED.MY LIST IS

TOP TIER
1.STORM
2.CABLE
3.MAGNETO
4.SENTINEL
5.SPIRAL
6.DOOM
7.STRIDER
8.CYCLPOS
9. BLACKHEART
--------
10 AND DOWN PSYLOCKE,KEN,IRONMAN/WM,CAMMY,CAPTAIN COMMANDO,ETC
AND NOW LOW TIER CHARACTERS HAVE MORE CHANCES WITH THE ADVANCE TACTICS STUFF

[B.P.R Inc]

Before this gets shut down, The diffrence with yours and every other list is???

[erco]

Originally posted by B.P.R Inc
Before this gets shut down, The diffrence with yours and every other list is???

difference is his list is off. Since when is Cable above Sentinel? should be something like:

Storm
Sent
Mags
Cable
Strider/Doom
Spiral
Doom

The last 3 are debatable. I put BH, Cyke, IM into the, "Dies horribly to the top tier, but owns the rest of the cast for free" tier.

Im doesn't outright die to magneto.

Thats one for the lug right there.

The other matches are debatable.

[cheese_master]

Ummm top tier=

Cable, Sent, Storm, Mag, CC, Cyke, Psylocke. I barely ever see anyone pick other people.

Don't give me this bull that CC, Cyke, and Psy are assists. Who the fuck cares... I see them more than I ever do of Spiral, Doom, BH, Strider.

[AHVB]

The Top Tier Is
1.Storm/Magneto
2.Cable
3.Sent

Mag Kills
Sent
Cable

Storm Kills
Sent
Cable

Sentinel Kills
(None)

Cable Kills
Sentinel

Thys iS 1 on 1

[chicken]

Originally posted by AHVB
The Top Tier Is
1.Storm/Magneto
2.Cable
3.Sent

Mag Kills
Sent
Cable

Storm Kills
Sent
Cable

Sentinel Kills
(None)

Cable Kills
Sentinel

Thys iS 1 on 1
Everything you said is wrong, bro.

Storm, Sentinel, Magneto, Cable in that order.

Magneto does not kill Sentinel outright.

Storm has to work to kill Sentinel.

Cable does not kill Sentinel in a one-on-one battle. However, Cable/AAA beats Sentinel/Anything.

[Robyrt]

It's hard to argue that the top 4 is Storm, Sent, Cable and Magnus, simply because they own almost everybody else for free and they can do decently against each other. Beyond that, it differs a little, but you can reasonably put Strider, Spiral and Cyke in top tier. Cyke's only real weakness is Cable, otherwise he's a great assist who holds his own against top tiers. Strider and Spiral aren't as good as they used to be, but they still own almost anybody below them, and when used skilfully can take down top tiers as well. Note that you do not "play Strider" as a standalone character, you play Strider/Sent/Doom; similarly, you don't play Spiral, you play Spiral/Cable/Sent.

Second tier has only four real shoo-ins: Commando, Doom, BH and IM. Commando is an assist, yes, but wins tournaments anyway, so he earns his spot. Same with standalone Doom. BH and IM obviously aren't as good at what they do as the big 4, but have a reasonable chance of survival and some tricks that put them ahead of the amorphous "Everybody Else". I don't really consider Cammy and Psy second tier, as in 90% of situations where you're using them, you could be using Cyke or Commando better.

AHVB, why the fuck do you post stupid shit like that one on one.

Wtf does that shit matter at this point in the game?

These are overall tier changes and teams matter.

[erco]

I would seriously drop from the top tier. Mags, Storm, Cable (with meter) all kill him. his only good matchup is against sent. I still like doom, he's a great assist, and can easily hold his own on point. It doesn't hurt that he just owns spiral. His only problem is that he dies to Mags, Storm, Sent for free, and Cable if he has meter.

Doom outright kills cyke, IMO, but that's just me.

[Naslectronical]

Originally posted by erco
I would seriously drop from the top tier. Mags, Storm, Cable (with meter) all kill him. his only good matchup is against sent. I still like doom, he's a great assist, and can easily hold his own on point. It doesn't hurt that he just owns spiral. His only problem is that he dies to Mags, Storm, Sent for free, and Cable if he has meter.

Doom outright kills cyke, IMO, but that's just me.


Doom's worst matchup is against Sent. It's very close to a 10-0 fight. Doom just gets absolutely nowhere fast in this fight.

He actually has a plan against Magneto, so that fight is only 8-2.

Storm is about 6-4 and sometimes 5-5.

Cable is 5-5, even if Cable has meters. If he doesn't, then the fight is in Doom's favor.

[erco]

ack, what happened to my post! it's supposed to say Cyke in the beginning.


"Cyke," I would seriously drop from the top tier. Mags, Storm, Cable (with meter) all kill him. his only good matchup is against sent. I still like doom, he's a great assist, and can easily hold his own on point. It doesn't hurt that he just owns spiral. His only problem is that he dies to Mags, Storm, Sent for free, and Cable if he has meter.

Doom outright kills cyke, IMO, but that's just me.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by erco
"Cyke," I would seriously drop from the top tier. Mags, Storm, Cable (with meter) all kill him. his only good matchup is against sent.Cyclops does better on Storm than he does on Sentinel. He can effectively stop Storm from hail storming assists and DF+RH launcher helps a lot. Sentinel tends to trade blow for blow for more damage with Cyke.

I still like doom, he's a great assist, and can easily hold his own on point. It doesn't hurt that he just owns spiral. His only problem is that he dies to Mags, Storm, Sent for free, and Cable if he has meter.Nah. Doom's only hands down horrible fight there is Sentinel. NO, DOOM DOES NOT GET OWNED BY MAGNETO. It's a bad fight, but Doom is not without options. His fight vs. Storm and Cable are decent enough.

Doom outright kills cyke, IMO, but that's just me. How? Cyclops outprioritizes Doom in like almost every way.

[Motoki Imawano]

black heart sucks...he should be, if he isn't already dropped from the top tier.

[llllllllll]

blah! :rolleyes: betcha wouldn't last against a semi-decent blkheart down here. still tier! :bluu: if only demons chipped, then he'd be godlike! ::walks away::.

[donaldducktm]

Originally posted by epyonx
HOW HAS THE TIERS BEEN EFFECTED WITH NEW OR SEMI-THINGS POPPING UP CHANGING THE GAME WITH BE PLAYED.MY LIST IS

TOP TIER
1.STORM
2.CABLE
3.MAGNETO
4.SENTINEL
5.SPIRAL
6.DOOM
7.STRIDER
8.CYCLPOS
9. BLACKHEART
--------
10 AND DOWN PSYLOCKE,KEN,IRONMAN/WM,CAMMY,CAPTAIN COMMANDO,ETC
AND NOW LOW TIER CHARACTERS HAVE MORE CHANCES WITH THE ADVANCE TACTICS STUFF

STorm can beat ANYONE....so here's my order

1. Storm
2. Sentinel
3. Cable
4. Magneto
5. Strider/Doom
6. Iron Man (climbing up to be top tier)
7. Spiral
8. Blackheart
9. Cyclops
10. (any good assist fits here)

[BshidoHEAT]

Fuck you all.

Omega Red is top tier if Iron Man is.

Fuck that shit.

[Richter85]

this topic is gettin old!

TIERS DON'T MATTER, SKILLZ DO!:mad:

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by Richter85
this topic is gettin old!

TIERS DON'T MATTER, SKILLZ DO!:mad:

Tiers don't matter. Knowledge of the match-ups do.

That being said, I still can't figure out why Iron Man, Megaman, Iceman, and Dhalsim get no love. Whenever anybody makes tiers, they always just list the top 9, then say something stupid like "10 and below is all the assists like Psylocke, Ken, Cammy, etc." First off, the only character that is of the quality of the next few characters is Cammy. Everybody knows the top 8. But, the next 8 should be a combination of Iron Man, Dhalsim, Megaman, Iceman, Cammy, Blackheart, Ruby Heart, and Silver Samuri.

[Rockman X]

It's about time someone besides me shows respect to Megaman. He owns rushdown and his only really bad match-up is Cable. But Cable can be beat. It's just that people want no change in top-tier status they only use what's popular or what works at the time. Storm is hella good but I don't think she's the best on the game.

Flame on.

no need man, u make yourself look bad enough to those who know what they are talking about.

[Rockman X]

Well prove to me why you think Storm is the best and don't give me some garbage about why should I prove it when everyone knows the truth.

um, runaway, deathcombo's, infinite, range, great throw's, perfect for dhcs,

wtf, why do i have to give a reason? anyone who plays mvc2 seriously knows storm is too good.

[n817azn]

Originally posted by mixup
no need man, u make yourself look bad enough to those who know what they are talking about.


Whoa there buddy, you just don't know a good mega man then. With a good aaa he totally owns rushdown, its that simple. Like rockman said his only weak matchup is pretty much cable.

As for tiers, i just think that tiers don't mean shit. 1 its the players that play them. 2 there really shouldn't be tiers in a game that is based off of 3 players interacting together. Like someone else said, its all about match-ups. Certain teams against certain teams, each have different matchups, and advantages. Its not really a one character kind of game, its who you have teamed with them that makes a certain character really good.


n8

[n817azn]

Originally posted by mixup
um, runaway, deathcombo's, infinite, range, great throw's, perfect for dhcs,

wtf, why do i have to give a reason? anyone who plays mvc2 seriously knows storm is too good.

ummm kay, she has no runaway against mega, and she can't reach him to rushdown either. So what then??

no, the game IS about tiers, AND it's about options and how a player utilizes options.

Sent drones+careful rushdown and it's no contest, megaman gets owned. The only damage he does is from the other player being careless and running into fp's{unless he has doom aaa, which you can counter with certain aaa's and further fuck up his plan} . One of my good buddies plays megaman exclusively{sadly enough} and he does great against careless players but when he plays somone who is actually good, it doesn't work that well.

and lol to your comment about megaman vs storm, it's no contest, he has a couple of options in the match but in the end, storm w sent drones just can't be stopped w the tools megaman has.

It's fine and all that you think megaman deserves to be top tier, just dont expect good players to agree just because you think so.


and your comment, she has no runaway vs him, thats not the point, he wants to know why i think she is the best, it's because she can run from characters that actually win tournaments, unlike h-towns daddy megaman.
storm<megaman wtf?

[KaiSing]

Storm is still the best in the game. Her only bad matchups are Cyclops and Strider and maybe Dhalsim to a smaller degree. But she still has plenty of options in those matches, which still makes her the best.

agreed.

No megaman on that list fella's;)

[n817azn]

Originally posted by mixup
no, the game IS about tiers, AND it's about options and how a player utilizes options.

Sent drones+careful rushdown and it's no contest, megaman gets owned. The only damage he does is from the other player being careless and running into fp's{unless he has doom aaa, which you can counter with certain aaa's and further fuck up his plan} . One of my good buddies plays megaman exclusively{sadly enough} and he does great against careless players but when he plays somone who is actually good, it doesn't work that well.

and lol to your comment about megaman vs storm, it's no contest, he has a couple of options in the match but in the end, storm w sent drones just can't be stopped w the tools megaman has.

It's fine and all that you think megaman deserves to be top tier, just dont expect good players to agree just because you think so.


and your comment, she has no runaway vs him, thats not the point, he wants to know why i think she is the best, it's because she can run from characters that actually win tournaments, unlike h-towns daddy megaman.
storm<megaman wtf?


ok, this is where your getting it wrong. I'm not saying that megaman is better then storm, one on one storm owns megaman. But like i said this is a team game. That sent drones stuff is funny, lol, seen it already, and seen it beaten too, sent comes out to slow and although it may work sometimes, more often than not he'll eat some fp's and captaincorridor, and yes this is against good players. Am i saying that megaman wins everytime? no, but he has one of the best matchups against her. She has trouble performing her most usefull functions, against the correct mega man team. Thats why its funny that you say, she wins hands down, lol. You don't think a good player could do well with mega man?? come on now.

[Rockman X]

First of all I never said that Megaman was the best character on the game. Second Megaman+Capcom owns Storm+ Sentinel assist. Against Megaman Storm has no rushdown or runaway and don't give me that hailstorm crap either because Megaman owns that shit. Rockball trap owns rushdown simple as that the only characters on that game that stand a chance against the Rockball trap is Cable and Sentinel with a fast assist.

In my eyes Cable is the best character with an assist, without an assist I still don't think it's Storm. Sentinel maybe but, Storm and Sentinel one on one can still get messed up. I still think that tiers really don't mean anything.

Also Megaman doesn't run H-town that damn Cable does. (Maybe every other city in the world but that's another story.)

Maybe if you had seen a good Megaman vs Storm you would change your mind but you can choose to believe what you want, but I refuse to be a top-tier whore just because they are considered top-tier, yeah it wins games but that shit gets boring.

Just my opinion that if she doesn't walk into his busters, eventually he gets caught. and the sent drones aren't for mad speed, they're for following and the shielding of storm{and yes i'm keeping in mind the capcom comment, more options surface from this issue, read on : ).

I'd like to know what team you are talking about that does so well? i just don't agree in the slightest, i think that megaman can pull it out but only based on the stupidity of his opponent.

[n817azn]

Originally posted by mixup
Just my opinion that if she doesn't walk into his busters, eventually he gets caught. and the sent drones aren't for mad speed, they're for following and the shielding of storm{and yes i'm keeping in mind the capcom comment, more options surface from this issue, read on : ).

I'd like to know what team you are talking about that does so well? i just don't agree in the slightest, i think that megaman can pull it out but only based on the stupidity of his opponent.

Of course, thats what this game is about isnt it? Who makes a mistake first, right? I don't even play this team, but i've watched it go against some of the best rushdown teams, and done very well, thats why i'm saying all of this. Yes, sometimes storm or mags, when they catch the little shit, its pretty much over, but a really good mega man player who doesn't get caught holds a good advantage over the good rush down teams. The team i believe is mega/ cable- aaa/ capcom - aaa. mega is a battery for cable. Like you said, its about patience, but your going with the assumption that the mega player is a dumb shit, and is gonna make some easy mistakes, allowing the storm player to easily capitalize, remember there can be 2 good players on both sticks. This team does have some weak matchups though, most cable based teams give him problems.

[Rockman X]

What people fail to understand is this if you play with or against any character, you win because of the other persons mistakes. So if where saying well since you can counter this with that everyone in the game would be top-tier because you can counter just about eveything. I've lost plenty of times because of a mistake I made but who cares you just have to try harder but I'm just saying from experience that Mega Man beats Storm the majority of the time.

Nate I can't believe those damn Saints won lucky SOB's

i dont mean that the megaman play is a dumb shit, hell the storm player can be a dumb shit and run into 4 or 5 things and still be in better shape than megaman after he gets hit once.

You say whoever makes the first mistake is the winner, thats part of my point, megaman asks that you make that mistake over and over to really hurt you.

Btw, you're more likely to block the wrong way when you have to block in more than just one direction. u get it? megaman isn't going to FORCE a mistake on you, he'll hope you walk into it. mag/storm Just cross-over until they hit, more of a chance to hit when it's confusing like that.

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by Rockman X

Maybe if you had seen a good Megaman vs Storm you would change your mind

quick question. How do we know that it isn't the other way around? How do we know that it isn't you who hasn't seen a GOOD storm vs. a Megaman?

[Rockman X]

You came up with a good point but, you still didn't see that it's really hard for a rushdown character to get in against Megaman/Capcom and even if they do get in and they fail to block the rockball it's coming back and will most likely knock you out of the combo you just started. I'm not saying it's impossible to rush him down but it's actually harder than you think.

nah bro, my buddy plays megaman/cable/capcom as his team.

I know how annoying he is{makes you simply do what you aren't used to and thats play patient and careful throughout the fight}. Really good players of the same level, Megaman < Storm.

It's cool and all that you disagree.

[n817azn]

Originally posted by Rockman X
What people fail to understand is this if you play with or against any character, you win because of the other persons mistakes. So if where saying well since you can counter this with that everyone in the game would be top-tier because you can counter just about eveything. I've lost plenty of times because of a mistake I made but who cares you just have to try harder but I'm just saying from experience that Mega Man beats Storm the majority of the time.

Nate I can't believe those damn Saints won lucky SOB's

thats right buddy the saints are for real, MUWAHAHAHAHA!!!
to be honest though i was shitting my pants in the beginning of the fourth quarter.

Btw, you're more likely to block the wrong way when you have to block in more than just one direction. u get it? megaman isn't going to FORCE a mistake on you, he'll hope you walk into it. mag/storm Just cross-over until they hit, more of a chance to hit when it's confusing like that.

this is exactly the problem, they don't get this chance that often with a good mega player. Thats when you gotta get lucky and get in for that one good cross over, but its not that easy. Your saying that you just keep on doing it over and over, like you'll be next to him the whole time, and that simply isn't the case. Most of the game you won't be able to get close to him, unless of course he makes the afore mentioned mistake. Rushdown is just a mistake waiting to happen, a button doesn't work one time, or the control goes wack one time, or you dash at the wrong moment. I think that your not understanding how much damage a couple of those annoying megaman fire balls do, plus if you just happened to rushdown at the wrong time and get smacked with one of those plus capcom, boom there goes half your energy. What i'm trying to say is that there is more chance for error with the rushdown, then the mega man thing.

Last point for me, summary overall

Mag plays patient, waits his turn, way more likely to hit than mega, if mega does get his one hit, no dead character, a hurt one, but not dead.

mag plays patient, hits once, dead megaman. if megaman had some type of infinite off of his fp then i might agree with you.

Also, keep in mind magneto just following megaman around and staying in his face, mega can keep jumping backwards and hitting fp, if he ever gets backed into a corner, which is likely given that it's his best movement option. ggpo. i guess you guys just don't play against REALLY patient rushdown ever.

[Rockman X]

I play against patinet rushdown but when I play Megaman I try not to get trapped in the corner. The only thing is if the person has Cable they will find a way put him in against Megaman instead of trying to rush him down. Megaman in the corner against rushdown = instant death. But he has an infinite it's not practical though. He also has a corner infinte but anything that can be tech hit cannot be consider an infinte so. I jsut play patience and stay out of the corner. One on one Storm can beat Megaman only if she rushes him down but if she plays runaway Megaman has a 75% chance of winning unless the person does air typhoons but I just dash in front of those kick a rockball and super jump or try to time the beat plane super in between typhoons.

I'm interested in how you stay out of the corner, new tactics have me interested:)

[Rockman X]

It's all about the way the person rushes at you some start by jumping, others start from just wave dashing, tri jumps and such when I know I'm getting to the corner I usually try to stop them with my assist so I can either try to jump over them when they dash on the ground or go under them when they try to jump in. But some times Capcom saves my ass when I'm in the corner. I know I'm making it sound easy but it's harder then the way I'm putting it.

Also most of the people I play expect the rockball, so I'll call the rockball because it has a few frames of lag but I won't kick it. This is because since you know that it has lag if I try to kick it when your in my face I eat rushdown, but since I know the person is going to rush I call the Capcom assist and jump over them most of the time the assist is blocked but at least I saved myself from rushdown. Also If i do get caught in the corner and I'm about to die I just simply Hyper Megaman when I sense the rush because for some reason it stops Psylocke, and Cyclops anti-air assist (Magneto's choice of partners) hitting the rushdown character in the process then DHC into a safe super if I have one. Doing this is stupid if Magneto blocks but if Megaman's on the verge of death you might as well try something.

I'll probably be putting a Megaman vs startegy in the Megaman thread today or tommorrow so I hope you like my strat's

The only problem with most Megaman player's is that they think just shooting the Mega-buster is going to save you from everything but it's not. I also got a one on one strat. vs Magneto but it consist of the leafshield and I know nobody wants to hear that.

[Spyro]

ack!

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by mixup
no, the game IS about tiers, AND it's about options and how a player utilizes options.

Sent drones+careful rushdown and it's no contest, megaman gets owned. The only damage he does is from the other player being careless and running into fp's{unless he has doom aaa, which you can counter with certain aaa's and further fuck up his plan} . One of my good buddies plays megaman exclusively{sadly enough} and he does great against careless players but when he plays somone who is actually good, it doesn't work that well.

and lol to your comment about megaman vs storm, it's no contest, he has a couple of options in the match but in the end, storm w sent drones just can't be stopped w the tools megaman has.

It's fine and all that you think megaman deserves to be top tier, just dont expect good players to agree just because you think so.


and your comment, she has no runaway vs him, thats not the point, he wants to know why i think she is the best, it's because she can run from characters that actually win tournaments, unlike h-towns daddy megaman.
storm<megaman wtf?

Ok, yeah, but doesn't Storm w/Sent drones beat like, everything? Isn't that why it is best team in the game? So Megaman can't beat the best team in the game. That doesn't mean he's complete shit. By your standards, Cable wouldn't be top tier either. And i'm really not trying to argue that Megaman is top tier, just that people don't respect some of the lower characters because they all loose to Cable and Sentinel in some form or another. That's actually a defining characteristic of 2nd tier IMO is inability to beat Cable and Sentinel. Look at the eight characters I mentioned in my post above and count how many of those would loose to Cable and Sentinel. All of them. Now look at top tier. None of them loose outright to both Cable and Sentinel.

Megaman and Dhalsim do rape MSP pretty solidly from what i've experienced. I admit I don't get to play the top players in the country, but I play some strong competition. When you pull out a Megaman/Sent against MSP, MSP has to work more than twice as hard as you do to get near you and three times as hard to score when they do get near you. Megaman and Sim have their tricks.

[IceBeast]

1) Boner Wolverine
2) Hulk
3) Marrow
4) Zangief

The Japs just discover RCing in MvC2!

did you read all of the argument?

Storm vs megaman is what this started out as.

[Blaziniflo]

Tiers are important, but mixup's mag killed my whole team. So all this argument about tiers is fairly relevant, but in the end it depends on who's a better and smarter and better composed player.

Same level play is what it's about in the big tourneys.

And you really don't see many people running to megaman when they are fighting justin.

[[MB2K]Mizter Ed]

Tiers are irrelevent, considering my best team is Colossus, Hulk, and Juggernaut, and they are supposedly "low tier". It all depends on how you play with them.

[Naslectronical]

Tiers damn well matter.

Take two equally skilled players and give one a Sentinel/Cable/Capcom team and then give the other a Hayato/Roll/Sakura team and see who comes out on top.

[soma]

Originally posted by [MB2K]Mizter Ed
Tiers are irrelevent, considering my best team is Colossus, Hulk, and Juggernaut, and they are supposedly "low tier". It all depends on how you play with them.

Hm, does anybody else notice that these types of "discussions" usually have high-level tournament players arguing with...other people ^?

[antinewbies182]

This is my opinion :

1.Storm
2.Sent
3.Cable - but remember that without assist nor levels he can do nothing .
4.Mags - he sucks too , lastly :lol:
5.Spiral - not really need an assist to do well
6.Strider - Same as Spiral
7.Iron Man - I put him here because as u know the infinite , and other stuff like anti air assist type that is really good .

Then the other tiers are the ''assists'' , because they make better job as assist that as a point character :

8.Cyclops
9.Comando
10.Cammy
11.Doom
12.Psy
13.BH
14.T-Bonne

And theres almost nothing more in the game if u want to win .

[kempobot]

Where the hell is the Omega Red love?!!:mad:
Have any of you tried to use him... efficiently?! OM can litteraly win against Sent.!!! The fact that he's quicker than Mags (when head-to-head w/ each other before the annoucers says "Begin", OM is capable of doing his rush-down before Mags can lift a finger) You need to also make a "Potential Top-Tier list" or a 2nd Tier:

Top 5
1.) Storm
2.) Sent.
3.) Mags
4.) Cable
5.) Sprial

Top Tier Potential
6.) Cyclops
7.) Doom
8.) Strider
9.) Cammy
10.) Omega Red
11.) Iron Man
12.) Psylocke
13.) Black Heart
14.) Jill
15.) Tron
16.) Guile
17.) Capcom
18.) Felicia

Bottom Tier (doesn't mean that the characters are bad)
48.) Shuma-Gorath
49.) Silver Samurai
50.) Thanos
51.) Anakaris
52.) Chun-Li
53.) Bonerine
54.) Marrow
55.) Servebot
56.) Roll

[Naslectronical]

Originally posted by kempobot
Where the hell is the Omega Red love?!!:mad:
Have any of you tried to use him... efficiently?! OM can litteraly win against Sent.!!! The fact that he's quicker than Mags (when head-to-head w/ each other before the annoucers says "Begin", OM is capable of doing his rush-down before Mags can lift a finger) You need to also make a "Potential Top-Tier list" or a 2nd Tier:

Top 5
1.) Storm
2.) Sent.
3.) Mags
4.) Cable
5.) Sprial

Top Tier Potential
6.) Cyclops
7.) Doom
8.) Strider
9.) Cammy
10.) Omega Red
11.) Iron Man
12.) Psylocke
13.) Black Heart
14.) Jill
15.) Tron
16.) Guile
17.) Capcom
18.) Felicia

Bottom Tier (doesn't mean that the characters are bad)
48.) Shuma-Gorath
49.) Silver Samurai
50.) Thanos
51.) Anakaris
52.) Chun-Li
53.) Bonerine
54.) Marrow
55.) Servebot
56.) Roll

I really hope that list is in random order, because there is no way that Iron Man is ranked lower than Cammy. Cammy definitely shouldn't be # 9. Jill, Tron, Capcom, and Felicia sure as hell shouldn't be higher than Iceman, Juggernaut, Ruby Heart, and War Machine.

Also, Silver Samurai, Anakaris, Bonerine, and Marrow should sure damn well not be amongst the 8 worst characters in the game.

:confused:

[Juggrknott]

OK, there *is* such a thing as tiers. [MB2K]Mizter Ed, I'm down with the big boys just like you, but fight Cable/Sent-y with your squad and then look me in the face & say otherwise. Sure, it's possible to *beat* them, but look how d@mn hard you have to work while they sit back, zone and wait for you to overreach/screw up.... :bluu:

Anyway, while tiers exist, they only go so far. Most people have seen the upper end of the scale in action and can speak on it reasonably well, but by the same token most people cannot really speak on which low-tier is better/worse/dead last because they don't really have the time in to know with any measure of authority.

Every low-tier character has some type of advantage that has to be exploited to the fullest in order to be competitive (usually), and lots of people flat out won't put the time in to get to this level......

......yet they are quite much more than happy to tell you how so-and-so sucks, and will never win because x, y and z, and blah blah blah. This irks me to no end, and even some high-to-semi-high level players are guilty of this.

This is why now I make a herculean effort to basically STFU regarding low-tier characters that I'm not familiar with. Sure, it's fun to talk theory fighter, but if you're passing along bad info and propogating the whole "top tier is everything" mantra in the process just because you've heard dozens of other sheep say the same thing.... bleh.

Anyway, I guess I say all that to say that if you are straight-up going for the tournament win and nothing else, then you probably better fall in line with all of the sheep and learn as many upper-crust characters as you can. But if you think it would be challenging, satisfying and fun to try to work out that win with the underdog(s), don't let 'conventional wisdom' stop you from trying that either.

As long as you realize that it's an uphill battle all the way...... :)

-Jugg

[kempobot]

Originally posted by Naslectronical


I really hope that list is in random order, because there is no way that Iron Man is ranked lower than Cammy. Cammy definitely shouldn't be # 9. Jill, Tron, Capcom, and Felicia sure as hell shouldn't be higher than Iceman, Juggernaut, Ruby Heart, and War Machine.
Also, Silver Samurai, Anakaris, Bonerine, and Marrow should sure damn well not be amongst the 8 worst characters in the game.

:confused:

I did made the mistake of not adding Iceman, Warmachine is really bad, and Juggernaut and Ruby Heart are directly under no. 18. That's only a sample

Uh.... why don't you read what I put in parenthesis- this doesn't mean that they are the worst :confused:

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by Naslectronical
Tiers damn well matter.

Take two equally skilled players and give one a Sentinel/Cable/Capcom team and then give the other a Hayato/Roll/Sakura team and see who comes out on top.

If tiers really mattered, then you would not be able to beat a higher level character with a lower one.

Yet, in a tournament a while back, Viscant beat some good Socal magnetos (don't remember who) with Gambit/Morrigan/Cyclops. One top tier character and two middle tier characters. Not even upper middle characters.

My point is, tiers don't mean all that much if you don't know the character's match-ups. Knowing how to use, say Storm, is more than just knowing she's top tier. Match-ups determine tiers, not the other way around. A lot of people loose sight of that in these discussions.

[Vinnyman]

Originally posted by mixup
unlike h-towns daddy megaman.
storm<megaman wtf?
whoa.....just because n8 claimed mm beats storm doesn't mean we all feel the same way. there is only one person who plays mm in h-town and he doesn't even play anymore. point being mm has a few options against storm but it's not effective against the likes of a good player. storm will kick his ass in a heartbeat. just depends if the storm user is careless.

so to sum up my thoughts on mm: he's fun to play with but in the end, i see him not even placing top 10 in any national tourny, therefore proving that he is worth mentioning being top tier...... but indeed he is fun to play with. :)

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by FluffyXXL
Yet, in a tournament a while back, Viscant beat some good Socal magnetos (don't remember who) with Gambit/Morrigan/Cyclops. One top tier character and two middle tier characters. Not even upper middle characters. Don't forget an SHGL tournament just before B5 where Joe Zaza took seventh place using Wolverine/Sentinel/Bonerine the whole way through. Considering the characters he chose and the comp he faced, it was quite an accomplishment.

Sure, it was before B5 as I'm sure you will be quick to point out, but don't tell me the "top tier hype" was any less then than it is now.

[Vinnyman]

and one more thing about the mistakes..........storm wins in this category seeing that if storm manages to land one hit, it's game over for MM. if you look at it the other way around, storm would have to make several mistakes for MM to make up the damage that storm can take advantage in one of MM's mistake. that's why storm/sent is not a dual to be taken lightly.

the punishment recieved after a mistake is higher for MM.

[Naslectronical]

I don't mean that tiers are the absolute be all end all.

What I'm saying is that if you take two equally skilled players and give one Storm/Sent/Commando and the other Hayato/Sakura/Capt. America, then the former player will win most of the time.

[Robyrt]

Umm, that tier list is a little too specific: SS and Bonerine are definitely better than some of the less mentioned characters (Venom? Spidey? Dan?) and I definitely wouldn't put Jill and Guile anywhere NEAR the top, certainly not above Tron and Capcom. I assume you're not counting potential as an assist, so why is Cammy so high?

[Dark Strider]

cuz Cammy fucking owns dude! she is like, the only good SF character in this game other than Ken and maybe Ruy (who is a VERY decent character). Akuma takes some of the worst damage in the game(he's down there with both Wolvies, damage wise), yet deals out a ton of it. So it's kinda a double edged sword using him really. Team Shoto actually isn't that bad, but against the big boys (the big 4) your gonna have to work for that win.

[Deathfist]

What are the top tiers? Here are my thoughts...

Personal Top 2 Tiers IMO
Top Tier:
1]Sentinel
2]Storm
3]Cable
4]Magneto
5]Cyclops
-Cyc:He beats Storm, Can beat Sentinel, He only loses to Strider and Cable[Worse than 7-3], and Magneto [6-4. Can be way worse if Cyc doesen't have an AA]. I'm nervous about his firepower issues compared to the rest, but a good DHC to Storm, Sent, or Juggernaut off a SOB solves that nicely. His weakness to Cable is often compensated for by the fact that he is usually carrying Cable or a Cable counter character into the fight. And since he has arguably the best [IMO the best] combo igniting AA, he accomplishes this albeit in a wierd round-about way.
-Magneto:He has to take FAR more risks than necessary to win than Cable does so I placed him lower than him.
-Cable:I'm kinda disappointed about a few things I notice in Cable play today, but it doesen't change the fact that he is one of the best.

Debatable Top tier IMO:
Here's where my recent lack of exposure to play causes problems...
6]Doom
7]Ironman
8]Strider / Spiral
-Ironman- multi infinite [300%] combo, hp stopping knives XX unibeam can cost Spiral the rest, can drop bombs from above, too good at DHC-ins, etc...
-Spiral and Strider are a sticking point for me. I agonized over this one for a while and decided to place them even, but put them in the order of who beats who in the vs matchup.
-Doom-Best assist in MvC2 [Tie with Sent-y], Excellent rush, Can establish a perimeter zone, easy to use and learn, a must to pick up. I put him higher due to his assists being alittle bit better.

Solid Second Tier includes but isn't limited to...
Guile-a, Blackheart, Capcom, Dhalsim, War Machine, Megaman-a, Psylocke-a, and Cammy in no perticular order.

Debatable Second Tier includes but isn't limited to...
Jin-b, Ruby Heart, Samurai, Iceman, Trone Bonne, and Colossus. These are also in no perticular order.

It's important to note that 2 players when they meet aren't always on the same, craftiness, knowledge, timing, and execution levels when they meet. This fact is the great compensator in alot of cases. There are obvious exceptions like Zangief vs Spiral where even a re-programmed Deep Blue or Intel Twin Paragon can't even beat a second rate Spiral, but matches this bad are few and far between. Most characters have some kind of redeaming quality [even Zangief] that can make them become atleast somewhat usefull when placed in teams. Why do you think that some players like say Viscant can most likely beat you [and probly would own me too] without using alot of serious top tier support? I think I answered this question for you.

[Clockw0rk]

I don't think that Storm/Sentinel/Magneto/Cable are so much better that they're in a tier of their own. I see it as

TOP TIER (in order)

Sentinel
Storm
Magneto
Strider
Cable
Doom
Spiral
Cyclops

SECOND TIER (in order)

Iron Man/Omega Red
Cammy
War Machine
Blackheart
Commando
Psylocke
Wolverine/Bonerine
Iceman

I'd list Dhalsim somewhere in the 2nd tier or maybe even bottom of the 1st, but I seriously have no idea what he's capable of cause I don't really know Dhalsim matchups (shut up Viscant, neither do you) and noone has given him another try as of late (that I know of anyway).

Though I still think MvC2 should be thought of in teams, not characters.

Clockw0rk

[Demon Hyo]

HA! Ironman is top tier in the 1st one

[Ryu Shinnosuke']

may i please ask...what "tier" is ryu? i know that in some cases, tiers don't matter as much as skill, but i just wanted to know, since i've been using him as my main character on MvC2 since it first came out:)

[ROC]

Wherever Black Heart is on your lists Rogue should be 3 characters above him cuz he sucks!

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by Ryu Shinnosuke'
may i please ask...what "tier" is ryu? i know that in some cases, tiers don't matter as much as skill, but i just wanted to know, since i've been using him as my main character on MvC2 since it first came out:)
Ryu is like middle to upper third tier.

Anyway, to me the big 4 are just the 4 in the top tier with the lowest risk. They can set up one hit kills better than the rest, but they still have bad matches. with that being said, from my experience, here's how i'd rank the characters off the top of my head

Top Tier:
1. Storm
2. Sentinel
3. Strider
4. Cable
5. Magneto
6. Spiral
7. Cyclops
8. Doom

Second Tier:
I have a VERY big second tier, so I'll just stop once i get to #20.

9. Iron Man (I used to have him in the top tier, then i put him in a tier of his own in between top and second. Now i have him down here again. His slow dash just really kills him since he needs to get in to do damage).
10. Blackheart
11. War Machine
12. Dhalsim
13. Iceman
14. Anakaris
15. Omega Red
16. Megaman
17. Ruby Heart
18. Wolverines (there's more i need to know about both of them, but from what joe zaza has shown me, they're deadly)
19. Psylocke
20. Sonson

[Unreallystic]

Originally posted by Juggrknott

Anyway, while tiers exist, they only go so far. Most people have seen the upper end of the scale in action and can speak on it reasonably well, but by the same token most people cannot really speak on which low-tier is better/worse/dead last because they don't really have the time in to know with any measure of authority.

Every low-tier character has some type of advantage that has to be exploited to the fullest in order to be competitive (usually), and lots of people flat out won't put the time in to get to this level......

As long as you realize that it's an uphill battle all the way...... :)

-Jugg Very good points - people play upper teir so often - that they aren't the authority on the lower teir characters. Very good point that I wanted to second.

Anotherp oint I want to second is waht someone on the first page said - BH doesn't deserve to be second teir anymore - maybe if second teir is *big* in terms of number of characters - but realistically speaking - BH ain't special anymore. He's a one-two trick pony, that through numerous games against becomes very ineffective. Add some of the more advance techniques like guard-cancel, and he really loses flavor - IMO he is barely capable of even fighting with anyone on the top tier. Gives Dhalsim some problems, but that is about all I can think of right now.

I think for all serious reasons the top teir is
Storm
Sentinel
with Cable and Mags fighting for last spot

Outside of that you have *as someone else mentioned* characters who get slaughtered by Cable and Sentinel - but piss on the rest of the cast - and some real nasty assist. I still debate wether Cammy or Psylocke should be considered second teir, but if they do make it - it is at the bottom. My main inclination for them being there is the top tier teams reliance on them - especially Magneto. You can use Cyclops to some extent to replace Pyslocke - but he isn't anywhere near as bread and butter as she is - The same can be said for Cammy & Captain Cammando. Because of her speed she can be more valuable than Cap - but Cap is ... well Cap...we all know what he can do and is good for. Although if it ever gets down to them being your point character, Pyslocke and Cammy have no place in the 2nd teir. Cyclops and Cap are much better on point than either of them.
-:bluu:

[Cornelius]

Bh's assist is tyte. It's enough to get him on good teams.

BH/Cyclops is really gay and a lot of chracters can't do diddly against it. It doesn't matter if he's a 1-trick pony, most of the other horses can't beat his 1 trick.

No disrespect to Zaza but the wolverine's suck. They're like BH only his trick is more effective, and so's his assist. Others have tried cloning Zaza's technique and failed horribly when one sent fast fly combo does 80% on him.

I mean BH used to get too much love but now he gets too much hate. I'd pick him over Dhalsim or Ruby if I wanted to win any day. You need either a good space controlling move or air mobility to beat BH, and lots of characters don't have either.

I'd compare BH/any non-top tier to a Sentinel vs. Magneto match. The other character needs to work really hard to get in on BH, and will take damage while BH keeps you out, builds meter, and chips you also while frustrating you. If you do manage to get in you'd better do something fancy and kill him or snap him out because you're not getting in again.

That and people don't give enough respect to Colossus.

[Dasrik]

MY TIER LIST (I stopped playing a month ago, so if something's changed, forgive me in advance...)

SUPER TOP TIER (in order)
Storm, Sentinel, Cable (1) , Magneto

TOP TIER (in order)
Strider, Spiral, Doom, Cyclops

UPPER TIER (in order)
Omega Red, Dhalsim, Iron Man (2), Blackheart (3), Psylocke, War Machine, Commando, Bonerine (4), Cammy

MID TIER (no particular order)
Tron, Ruby Heart, Megaman (5) , Wolverine (4), Guile, Rogue, Colossus, Silver Samurai, shotos

(1) - I put Cable above Magneto because Cable's results are way more consistent. Magneto is still top tier to be sure, but the dedicated Mags players will tell you that against the best players the top 3 are a way safer bet.

(2) - I still don't think Iron Man is THAT good. His biggest tactical strengths lie in his powerful normals and his smart bombs. People can and do avoid getting hit by the infinite, and his comeback ability sucks if the opponent doesn't hand it to you.

(3) - Blackheart is still good. His assist is great, and his stalling power is sharp - he can hold a lead like nobody's business. People suck with him because they throw too much demons and forget about using his hard-to-beat normals.

(4) - Bonerine is better than Wolverine. I know this from talking with JoeZaza plenty of times. Bonerine is slightly faster, and his divekick angle is tactically better. More importantly, his assist is WAY better, his rushdown flows better because of non-knockdown c.forward, and his trapping ability is more solid.

(5) - Yes, I don't think Megaman is upper tier. I've been playing with him a lot lately. In my experience, he does really good on Magneto, but that's about it. Sentinel stomps him, Storm right out beats him (regardless of what anyone says). He can't even begin to fight Strider or Spiral, and Doom with assist and a meter or two is more than a match.

[epyonx]

i have seen my thread grow :)

the tiers stand that:
1. spots #1 and #2 are for sentinel and storm but IMO storm is better for the fact that she beats cable and cable is usually featured in most teams and sentinel's weaknesses have grown like for example HSF is no longer safe if the opponent can CAHVB correctly and as a side note push-block escape tricks can now be linked into attacking sentinel leading to a powerful combo.Storm has improvements with a reasonable infinite.Sentinel seems to lose to magneto ( a good one) due to the easy infinite and the fact its easier to do on him and kill him with a Hyper grav XX magnetic tempest at the end of the infinite or even continue it.
2. cable is #3 or 4( more #3 for me) cause every new trick dat popups up, he seems u to use it and abuse it to make him more "cheap" you can say. Spiral now is weaker thus cable now has less trouble with characters. Even though magneto should be owning more cable just has easier wins.
3. spot #5 if a fight , BH is too wack due to new techiniques(old ones to others) and everyone up there kills him.
megaman is OK a best but i think he CANNOT hang well with the top of the game and since the TOP TIER(1-4) own most better characters than megaman, megaman cannot compete consistently anyway.
omega red is OK but low in the #s on tiers. rouge is nice BUT u gotta work so hard like strider so is she worth it


P.s I will add more later since this is a long post

[epyonx]

continued ..

ironman is NOT some much better then warmachine and warmachine does have his good points like better chipping abililty and a nice extra super. The infinite still works for him and he has better smart bombs. cammy is good as the player using her. she is a decent character and she is similar to psylocke so i wonder can psylocke be used effectively as a point character most of the time. HER assist rock so she is used cause the assist(a) is dat effective. cyclops should be higher then most realize since he has a good assist , good infinite dat is easy to do but its easier to win with the top 4.his powers is countering with his supers and the like building meter while running and he can stop other characters plans. the gene-splice xx to a super should BE USED more since its useful to move around, counter sentinel and break traps and escape. doom is ok but isnt at full potential: i dont see use of ground photons, he can rush a little and should confront opponets more often, he has fly mode and HK in the air to move around with the dash and a HP laser and a super, he should be waiting in the air for his fast photons. his assist is great for anyone so dat keeps him in like spot #7. despite dat spiral is weakened she still is great in the right hands and isnt at full power yet cause even though her traps are escapble she can start them with ease again on the right characters and be annoying. dhalsim anakaris iceman are dubious but the have some good points and bad but in fighting games u hide the disadvantage and hope ur advantages coverup and with assist this is easier since all characters get benefits from assists.strider is still GOOD. if anyone has seen clockworks strider it shows he can still i win. in the shgl nov 23 tourney he was abusing a lot of peeps. and strider now is understood more and has lots of new tricks mixed with old dat give him more of a new look . my 2 cents and a buck and more to come

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by Cornelius

That and people don't give enough respect to Colossus.
damn. Forgot about colossus. That revises my list. I'll throw him in between #17 and 18.

[master ken]

Originally posted by Clockw0rk
TOP TIER (in order)

Sentinel
Storm

I would like to know why you ranked Sentinel above storm ?
Storm has no bad match-ups, whereas sentinel has a hard time beating cable and can be CAHVBed anytime he tries to chip his oponent.

Originally posted by Clockw0rk
TOP TIER (in order)
...
Cyclops

It's funny how everybody says that cyc is top tier, but nobody from usa top players, except Viscant, uses him in tournaments :confused: :confused:

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by master ken

It's funny how everybody says that cyc is top tier, but nobody from usa top players, except Viscant, uses him in tournaments :confused: :confused:
yeah. And Justin Wong. And David Lee. And Duc. etc.

[master ken]

Originally posted by KaiSing

yeah. And Justin Wong. And David Lee. And Duc. etc.
my bad, you're right about Duc Duo.
Justin wong used cyc only in the final 8 at evolution, he doesn't use him anymore.
As for David Lee, I thought his main team was storm/sentinel/cable.

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by master ken

my bad, you're right about Duc Duo.
Justin wong used cyc only in the final 8 at evolution, he doesn't use him anymore.
As for David Lee, I thought his main team was storm/sentinel/cable.
Justin also used Cyclops against SiN at MWC
David used Storm/Sent/Cyke a couple times in the last golfland tourney towards the final rounds.
Soo also brought out Cyclops in his matches as well.

[Cornelius]

and julius. the only person EVER (so maybe i'm exagerrating) to OCV somebody in a golfland tournament with Cyclops.

And everybody not named Genghis picks Cyclops against Clockw0rk. Everyone.

People say that Spiral is top tier still, but nobody picks her anymore. People say that Strider is top tier, but nobody outside clock gets results with him. People say that Doom is top tier but maybe you can name 3-4 "top" players picking him. My point is just because you don't see a lot of people picking the characters doesn't mean they aren't top tier.

[box]

Justin used Cyke at the ECC7 and MWC6 finals (both Cable/storm/cyke teams) but only for like...1 matchup, and he lost them both. He used storm/sent/cyke in the 2 rounds of the evo-final... lost one, won the 2nd. I think he pretty much ditched out on Cyke though. The last few tournaments he was using Storm/sent/commando, Mag/storm/psy, Mag/cable/doom.

[Ryu Shinnosuke']

hey,

can someone please post all of the tiers( top, 2nd, 3rd etc.)?:)
i've always wanted to know who was 3rd tier and beyond. peace!!

[Ouroborus]

Originally posted by master ken

I would like to know why you ranked Sentinel above storm ?
Storm has no bad match-ups, whereas sentinel has a hard time beating cable and can be CAHVBed anytime he tries to chip his oponent.


It's funny how everybody says that cyc is top tier, but nobody from usa top players, except Viscant, uses him in tournaments :confused: :confused:

cuz sentinel rapes. storm just wins. and please stop using cable as an excuse for sentinel not to be the best. Sentinel is the most improved character and has evolved so much.

Everyone uses Cyke. Sure hes mostly used as an assist, but he can win on point too.

[Sephren]

I love the megaman/top tier arguments... "what i'm sayin is if the storm player fucks up, megaman wins!!"

Thats absolutely the most fucking retarded thing i've ever heard. You're pretty much saying, "hey everyone, tiers dont mean shit!! if you fuck up with either storm, mags, cable etc., servbot and roll can own them!"

Well, thanks to this brilliant analogy, i've decided to replace my current team of Mags / Storm / Sent with the team of Megaman (cuz he's so good), Roll, and Servbot and hope that my opponent fucks up all the time. Maybe if he runs into my megaman fireballs I can fucking OWN HIM!

As far as cyke goes, he's way overrated. great assist, i'll give him that. But on his own all he can do is jump around and try to build some bar by kicking and shit, but if he's fighting anyone who knows what they're doing with a good team, he'll get his ass handed to him... he pretty much sucks the dills.

[master ken]

Let me rephrase my argument about cyc :
who from USA top players uses cyc in his main team in at least 50% of his matches in a tournament ?
the answer to that question is : viscant, duc(arguable), maybe Rattana.

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by master ken
Let me rephrase my argument about cyc :
who from USA top players uses cyc in his main team in at least 50% of his matches in a tournament ?
the answer to that question is : viscant, duc(arguable), maybe Rattana.

Yeah, but look at the other non-top tiers.
Which top players use Doom in at least 50% of their matches?
Clockw0rk, Viscant, and Julius.

Which top players use Spiral in at least 50% of their matches?
Duc a couple months ago, and now he'll only use her every now and then.

Which top players use Strider in at least 50% of their matches?
Clock. That's it.

Numbers with top players really isn't the end and all of all tiers. I mean, if you look at Sentinel/Cable/Commando, it's one of the best teams in game hands down. But in the Pac South division, I can only think of two players who can consistently get results with that team (Sin and Genghis).

[TS]

Originally posted by Sephren

As far as cyke goes, he's way overrated. great assist, i'll give him that. But on his own all he can do is jump around and try to build some bar by kicking and shit, but if he's fighting anyone who knows what they're doing with a good team, he'll get his ass handed to him... he pretty much sucks the dills.

Cyke beats a lot of characters (most of them) one on one, which is important because he's almost always 3rd. Gets free Chip damage vs almost all characters. Has useful (though unused) infinite, which he can transistion into super/DHC to kill. Jump roundhouses beat almost everything (better than Cable's, and probably better than Storm's j.FP). Does good vs the first two tiers; Well vs Storm, Pretty good vs Sent, good vs Doom, and basically beats anyone in the first two tiers who isn't Cable or Iceman or Magneto. Assist is obviously pretty godly, and assist/counter->super are good vs Spiral and Strider. So I think he's pretty legit.

[BshidoHEAT]

Sentinel is first because he has an unblockable c.fp which can be linked to a RP and then eventually death.

Originally posted by TS

Gets free Chip damage vs almost all characters.

brb

I dunno man.. the discovery of guard cancelling has made this option more risky now.

[TS]

Originally posted by BshidoHEAT

I dunno man.. the discovery of guard cancelling has made this option more risky now.

You know what, I didn't think of that. And while I still think he has a crazy amount of good matches, that does complicate things a little bit, depending on your team. Though I think stuff like crossup with Doom-B and then do Cyclone Kick into MOB, or if you can get them to block something like Storm-A or Sent-G or Spiral-A.

[KaiSing]

You can't guard cancel against a MOB alone. And from what i've seen, Cyclone Kick (1 hit)XX MOB is safe from most characters guard canceling. The recovery is really that fast. The guard canceling vid showed an optic blastXX MOB and almost nobody I've seen uses that. Overall, I don't think Cyke fell that much just because of guard canceling.

[donaldducktm]

i know i'm way off the subject with you guys...but

Storm is still the best character in the game.
Sentinel comes right after
Magneto is FUCKING GOOD if fallen to the hands of a skilled person.
Cable is very good with his AHVB and keep away :D

and as for the best assist in the game IMO.............


TRON!

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by KaiSing
You can't guard cancel against a MOB alone. And from what i've seen, Cyclone Kick (1 hit)XX MOB is safe from most characters guard canceling. The recovery is really that fast.

Can't some charaters out prioritize his Cyclone Kick?

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

IMO and in order:

Uber tier:
Sent
Storm
Cable
Jew
IM

The cool thing about cable, is he can consistantly get results, even if you're stupid. Storm/Sent/and especially Mags take a little know-how.

IM is uber, and if for no other reason, he's up there because a random jab can = a dead character. The reason Strider/Spiral isn't up there is because they're too demanding, and they can't consistantly pull down wins...but no doubt they're also uber.

Top tier: Omega red is extremely solid, and his only weakness is that he has nothing abusable/free. Cyke is very solid too, prolly up right after IM...Dhalsim IMO is the most versatile Capcom character, and with some serious play he could be top tier. ;) And lastly is Ruby. Sexy pirate bitch with a solid game and good presure game. =O

The rest like mm and BH go into second tier

Best assist is DOOM. No contest. Tron is good, Doom is nazi-good. And for that he's Uber tier. ;)

[FecalPenance]

hayato deserves to be 2nd tier if those bums iceman and cammy are up there... great range/priority, midscreen tag out combos, juggle after command throw, fake dashing hp plus his combos get full damage before dhcing to a real character... sj.hk is crazy, sj.d+hk and an air super give him more options... his aaa has weak priority but it can setup shit like megaman or chunli.... just don't use his specials except for combos or the ocassional random dragon punch if you're covered by an assist...

omega red is almost at the bottom of the toptier but he has too much advanced shit to list...

no drastic toptier changes, everyone's fighting over minor shit...

[master ken]

Originally posted by KaiSing


Yeah, but look at the other non-top tiers.

......

with that team (Sin and Genghis).
You're right again, I'm not saying that cyc shouldn't be top tier, it just seams to me that cyc isn't used that much for some reason :confused: but I don't know why.
There is also the thing that almost all top players are known for being great with some character. Like Duc is known for having the best spiral, shadyk/soo for having a crazy mag, jwong/shogun for having a really good cammy etc. However, there is nobody that is known for having a fucked up cyc. I could be wrong once again, though :lol:

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

Originally posted by master ken

You're right again, I'm not saying that cyc shouldn't be top tier, it just seams to me that cyc isn't used that much for some reason :confused: but I don't know why.
There is also the thing that almost all top players are known for being great with some character. Like Duc is known for having the best spiral, shadyk/soo for having a crazy mag, jwong/shogun for having a really good cammy etc. However, there is nobody that is known for having a fucked up cyc. I could be wrong once again, though :lol:

Julius Jackson's Cyclops is OCVilicious

[Dasrik]

Hayato is good. He's definitely not worst character in the game anymore - he's Zazalicious to be sure (Jose's Hayato teams are just too good). He still has problems, the main one being a total lack of mobility - slow ground speed and other than his stomp, no way to change his direction in the air. And I would use his alpha assist over his beta - fast, comes out from behind you, did I mention fast?

Megaman is only good on Magneto. That's IT.

master ken - Julius and Viscant's Cyclops are fucking good. I also know Jose is doing a lot of crazy shit with Cyclops. He says he's a bit too good, though, but I might force him to pull shit out for a tourney or something.

[War Machine]

My list:

1. War Machine
2. Hayato
3. Spider-man
4. Akuma
5. Iron Man
6. Strider
7. Ruby Heart
8. Silver Samurai
9. Harry Potter
10. Zeratul

[PcLanAdmin2]

Storm
Sent
Mags
Cable

i can't see this list ever changing, in that order, for top tier.

is storm, sentinel, capcom still the best team?

[Deathfist]

This is alittle off topic, but what are the specifics of the unblockable Sentinel fierce [d+hp]. If there is a way, than the guard cancell glitch vs HSF may not be as big a factor as one might think [if you use your grey matter :evil: ]

You: Please! Guard cancell, Go ahead
Opponent: I can't! I'm still eating it!
You: Come on, You said you could [eating second HSF]
Opponent: Oh shit I'm dead I wasn't at full health as he loses the pointman
You: Damm you couldn't? oh well, I guess I'll uncombo the next one since I also have your assist in it too. Kinda forgot you were in hit stun instead [making fun of him basically...].

Too funny :D

[MeelJ]

I'm more interested in 2nd tier opinions...we all know who top tier is. There are alot of good characters that could be considered 2nd tier...
(not in order of course)
-IronMan
-War Machine
-Silver Samuai
-Black Heart
-Collosus
-Megaman
-Ruby Heart
-Juggernaut
-Gambit
-Morrigan
-Dhalsim
-Omega Red
-Cammy
-CapCom
-Psylocke
-Jin
-Wolverines
-Ken
-Marrow
-Anarkaris (sp?)
-Jill
-Guile
-Sakura
-Venom

There are probably a few more I left out...As I mentioned before, this is just a list of characters that could be 2nd tier...not my 2nd tier list...Just incase someone got confused.

[Saige]

Rogue is second tier, high second tier. (Others share my opinion)

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

Originally posted by Saige
Rogue is second tier, high second tier. (Others share my opinion)

Tru dat...rouge is hella high second tier...Same with Felicia. Thanos is almost guarunteed to kill a character with 5 meters. Soul/power/reality are way too good.

[Saige]

Problem is that how often can Thanos have 5 bars? :bluu:

By the way, loving the avatar. :D

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

Originally posted by Saige
Problem is that how often can Thanos have 5 bars? :bluu:

By the way, loving the avatar. :D

Yea, that's why he's prolly not that highly ranked. Mag/Thanos/psy is a fun team IMO when I don't feel like playing cable. Psy xx Power gem is unrollable and DAMAGING, and he can kill assists pretty damn quickly with the right set up...but most importantly, any minor mistake he can punish anywhere on the screen instantly. He just can't do it three times. =< If he only had his Mind/Time supers. ;)

Thx ^_^. I'm messing around with AVS now, pallets for this or some other crap.

[da_dragon]

everyone knows top 4 are storm, sent, mags, cable.....being a mags player myself i would say mag is tha best!!!!! but lets face facts....sent and storm beat tha shit outta him....and more than half tha time he gets shot:mad: He does have his gho0d matchups.....i would say battle for 1st is between sent and storm and battle for 3rd is mag and cable....

[Gammadynamite]

Damn..I havn't seen much bigman love in this whole discussion. Hulk/Juggs/Sent fucking owns. What other team do you know of that can demolish a whole team in 25-30 seconds???

The juggs dash assist(glitched of course) rapes assisted characters and w/ sentinel on point, it's practically risk free. The biggest problem w/ this team is facing rushdowns.(unless you've got sent in)

Sent is self explanitory

Hulk is a great semi-rushdown character (if you know what your doing) w/ great speed and awesome damage(especially w/ the drones assist covering your ass)

Another rushdown solution that I've been using is Jin AAA in place of Hulk or Juggs (usually Juggs)

I'm just getting tired of people overlooking the potential of some of these "lower tier" teams. And don't give me that "look at the results of tournies" crap. It just means that no one has the brass balls to try it.

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

Originally posted by Gammadynamite
Damn..I havn't seen much bigman love in this whole discussion. Hulk/Juggs/Sent fucking owns. What other team do you know of that can demolish a whole team in 25-30 seconds???


I'm just getting tired of people overlooking the potential of some of these "lower tier" teams. And don't give me that "look at the results of tournies" crap. It just means that no one has the brass balls to try it.

Other teams that demolish a whole team in 25-30 secs:

MSP
Storm/sent/capcom
anyone with tron. :)
IM can if he gets a hit off, it takes about 10 secs to kill a character once they're in an infinte. ;)

It's not that the potential is over looked or one has the balls, it's just that in a tourney setting you want to play as safe as possible...something you're really gonna be able to do with jugg/hulk. How are they gonna close on cable/sent or catch runaway storm?

[Gammadynamite]

Originally posted by Chun-Li's Pimp


Other teams that demolish a whole team in 25-30 secs:

MSP
Storm/sent/capcom
anyone with tron. :)
IM can if he gets a hit off, it takes about 10 secs to kill a character once they're in an infinte. ;)

It's not that the potential is over looked or one has the balls, it's just that in a tourney setting you want to play as safe as possible...something you're really gonna be able to do with jugg/hulk. How are they gonna close on cable/sent or catch runaway storm?

Playing safe w/ any character is easy once you learn what you should and should not do.

As for runaway storm..

sent:how does everyone else catch her??
juggs: sj. body splash
hulk:gamma quake

[Dasrik]

I've had a few people try to pull off Team Huge... That team only wins when people let it. Doom/Storm/Cyke or BH/Sentinel/Cyke demolishes those teams for free, it's just that they do it very uninterestingly.

"But that makes for a boring game!"

Fuck that. Maybe in a round robin setting, but I'd rather stay on the machine than wait my turn.

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

Originally posted by Gammadynamite


Playing safe w/ any character is easy once you learn what you should and should not do.

As for runaway storm..

sent:how does everyone else catch her??
juggs: sj. body splash
hulk:gamma quake

Playing safe and EFFECTIVELY I should have said. You can't jump back fierce+drones xx avb with those character, you have to move foreward and take risks(even if calculated) to even get close to a top tier team. Now I'm not opposed to low tier, I use them myself sometimes, but I can perfectly understand why people likek Dasrik play like fags and don't give your team a chance. ;)

And as for Storm, if she blocks any of those moves? She can counter LA before you land, or she can land with you and launch you into 100%. Storm > sent, but it's a better match up by far. Unless they fuck up, you won't do any damage with jugg/hulk teams.

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by BshidoHEAT


Can't some charaters out prioritize his Cyclone Kick?
outprioritize with what? I'm sending kicks at you (either LKx2, or RKx2 before the cyclone kick) that have you in blockstun too long for you to throw out any normal quick enough to hit me once i throw out a cyclone kick. I doubt anyone wants to try to anticipate when i'm going to throw out a cyclone kick and get kicked in the face, followed with a super for 40% of their life.

[skot]

quick question:
who are the 3 worst characters in the game? :D

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by KaiSing

outprioritize with what? I'm sending kicks at you (either LKx2, or RKx2 before the cyclone kick) that have you in blockstun too long for you to throw out any normal quick enough to hit me once i throw out a cyclone kick. I doubt anyone wants to try to anticipate when i'm going to throw out a cyclone kick and get kicked in the face, followed with a super for 40% of their life.

I mean, aren't there some special moves that are safe and at the same time can out hit/trade with him?

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by BshidoHEAT


I mean, aren't there some special moves that are safe and at the same time can out hit/trade with him?
do you have one in mind?

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by KaiSing

do you have one in mind?

Lighting Attack, jab cajin strike, lk o.strike, Sho the Ninjia, Jetty the Mummy....

[Gammadynamite]

Originally posted by skot
quick question:
who are the 3 worst characters in the game? :D

Dan, Roll, and ????hmmm I'm not sure

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by BshidoHEAT


Lighting Attack, jab cajin strike, lk o.strike, Sho the Ninjia, Jetty the Mummy....
you won't be able to pull those off if you were blocking a chain of kicks before i do a cyclone kick. You'd be in blockstun.

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by KaiSing

you won't be able to pull those off if you were blocking a chain of kicks before i do a cyclone kick. You'd be in blockstun.

Bah.. that's what alpha counters are for.. :o

[Bojack]

Originally posted by Dasrik
Hayato is good. He's definitely not worst character in the game anymore - he's Zazalicious to be sure (Jose's Hayato teams are just too good). He still has problems, the main one being a total lack of mobility - slow ground speed and other than his stomp, no way to change his direction in the air. And I would use his alpha assist over his beta - fast, comes out from behind you, did I mention fast?

Megaman is only good on Magneto. That's IT.

master ken - Julius and Viscant's Cyclops are fucking good. I also know Jose is doing a lot of crazy shit with Cyclops. He says he's a bit too good, though, but I might force him to pull shit out for a tourney or something.

Didn't you use to incessantly argue with me over Hayato being like, 54th character in the game?



---B.j.
And Mixup is right, I'm a big time MegaMan/Cable/Sent player and the only time this team works is when Cable wins with the 5 meters MM gets for him or when Sent does the same, or when some one is dumb enough to continually get hit by Mega Busters.

[Reverend]

Personally, I think the tiers should go like this:

God Tier:

1 - Storm. Guard Cancelling really doesn't effect her that much, but she can use it against others well enough. If Storm is throwing out a combo long enough for you to GC it, then she should have stopped trying to hit a blocking opponent a LONG time ago.

2 (tie) - Cable. With Cable's ability to GC xx LK, LK, HK xx AHVB, he can rearrange rushdown into a kill as opposed to eating rushdown. The guy can turn dozens of situations into AHVB events, previously unavailable due to blockstun holding him down.

2 (tie) - Sentinel was hurt from GCing, since it is now possible to escape the "free chip" that his HP, RP, HSF combos used to give him. Still, that's really only 1 thing lost, while he still has tons of potency. He just has that much MORE trouble with Cable, that's all.

4 - Magneto. Arguably the best 1-on-1 character, although if could end up getting caught if one of his whiffed combos goes long enough to get GC'ed. Still, he has the tools and the talent to destroy people, and can now get out of Sentinel's chipping/trapping techniques (HSF stuff) with GCing.

Top Tier:

~Cyclops (out-prioritizing you since 2000)
~Doom (he has the tools to runaway or pixie, build meter and chip but doesn't excell anywhere to be more than Top)
~Iron Man (he has above-average rushing, decent keepaway, and a super-easy infinite...but that's really about it)
~Strider (Yeah, yeah, he needs Doom to accentuate his trapping and add chip...but Strider by himself is one HECK of a mean machine, too, he just has to work harder to get the damage done without Doom)

Not-So-Top-Anymore:

Blackheart (remove his most reliable form of chipping and you remove a very viable tactic of his)
Spiral (GC your way our of her swords? Geez, what does she have left?)

Close Calls:

Dhalsim, Psylocke, War Machine, M. Bison, SonSon, Cammy, Juggernaut, Megaman

Of course, you can argue the close-calls 'til the cows come home, it's just my opinion.

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

Originally posted by skot
quick question:
who are the 3 worst characters in the game? :D

IMO, Roll/Gouki/Zangief. Roll is the worst, no doubt. I think Kobun is pretty decent actually, especially with doom. Gouki and zangief have NOTHING except assists. ;)

[blue_J]

this is what i thinck the top is now from playing with the top ec players specially santhrax

1.sentinel
2.magneto
3.storm
4.cable
5.cammy
6.black heart
7.phylocke
8.guile
9.doom
10.strider
11.marrow
12.tronbone
13.megaman
14.

[BAD]

You are all wrong. Dan is top tier. Put Dan on any team, and the team will win. Blackheart? Shit, Dan owns him just like he does Magneto and Cable. Cable's triple Air Hyper Viper is nothing compared to Dan's Super Gadouken! Spiral? Gone, with Dan's Gale Kick trap! YEAH! If I were you, I would pick Dan/Sakura/Shuma Gorath team in MVSC2..IF you want to win...

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by Reverend
Spiral (GC your way our of her swords? Geez, what does she have left?)

Just about everything else that made up her game other than Spiral/Sent lockdown, which only made up like 5% of her entire game. Take a look at some of Duc's vids. He almost never went for lockdown. Spiral is still hell to fight with or without the lockdown.

[Dasrik]

Justus: Akuma is SO not bottom tier. Jump fierce xx hurricane, launch into hurricane, and air fb/super are really viable strats for him. His teleport has no lag. He's fast. His main problem is lack of stamina, other than that he's fine.

IMO worst are Roll and Servbot. Servbot can do absolutely nothing but chip, and he's not going to win off that alone unless the opponent lets him. He sucks. Roll sucks too, no priority or speed on anything.

[KaiSing]

Akuma > Chun-Li:cool:

anyway, I'd say bottom 3 are Zangief, Roll, and Dan. Zangief has good assists, that's it. He gets owned by anyone with a semi-decent keepaway and a one button anti air. Roll, nuff said. Dan is slow, lacks range, he's a freakin joke. His anti air is alright though.

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

Rick: When someone takes damage THAT poorly, without anything abusable, they become very very low tier IMO. All those strats are viable, but the fact that a commando AA if you mess up dpes like 30% is just gay. Not worth the effort...His teleport sux, cuz he'll get nailed on the way out if he uses it wrong. He has to go agressive and he frankly doesn't have THAT much priority. You make it sound like he can hang...=O But the only time I've EVER seen him used, is on team shoto.

Kaising: -_- just because chun can't combo her supers doesn't mean she isn't good. She isn't that kind of character. ;) But whatever, I supose Gouki > Dan(although barely).

Roll/Dan/Gief

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by Chun-Li's Pimp


Kaising: -_- just because chun can't combo her supers doesn't mean she isn't good. She isn't that kind of character. ;)

hey, you're preaching to the choir. in case you've forgotten, this is a strider player you're talking to.:p

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by Chun-Li's Pimp
Rick: When someone takes damage THAT poorly, without anything abusable, they become very very low tier IMO. All those strats are viable, but the fact that a commando AA if you mess up dpes like 30% is just gay. Not worth the effort...His teleport sux, cuz he'll get nailed on the way out if he uses it wrong. He has to go agressive and he frankly doesn't have THAT much priority. You make it sound like he can hang...=O But the only time I've EVER seen him used, is on team shoto.Bonerine takes the same vitality, and it doesn't stop him from being used tizzitely. And Jose uses Akuma in various teams, one of the more effective ones being the Spider-Man Movie Special (Spidey/Akuma/BH).

[DarkDragon]

Originally posted by blue_J
this is what i thinck the top is now from playing with the top ec players specially santhrax

1.sentinel
2.magneto
3.storm
4.cable
5.cammy
6.black heart
7.phylocke
8.guile
9.doom
10.strider
11.marrow
12.tronbone
13.megaman
14.

BH over Doom? isn't it the other way around?

[Pimpswitch EX+]

I like cheese.

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

Originally posted by Dasrik
Bonerine takes the same vitality, and it doesn't stop him from being used tizzitely. And Jose uses Akuma in various teams, one of the more effective ones being the Spider-Man Movie Special (Spidey/Akuma/BH).

Bonerine has speed, good strings, and abusable throws...gouki has none of that shit. I'm sure zaza can win with gouki, but the fact remains that he's ass. :)

[donaldducktm]

Blue_J is Justin Wong...that guy is killer so listen to what he says and you'll be fine ;)

[Dasrik]

Uhh, blue_J is NOT Justin Wong, kthx.

[box]

Dasrik: Why is Spidey/Akuma/BH called the spider-man movie special??

When I'm bored I usually make Marvel movie teams. Spider-man, Captain America (his movie totally bites), Hulk (coming out in Summer), Wolverine, Bonerine, Rogue, Cyclops, Iceman, Storm, Magneto, Sabretooth.

[Joe Zaza]

Dasrik: Why is Spidey/Akuma/BH called the spider-man movie special??Dude,

Spider-Man is Spider-Man, Blackheart is the Green Goblin and Akuma is Mary Jane.

[BAD]

joe zaza:

your AV is cool, but your movie team in MVSC2 makes no sense; Blackheart is green goblin? Mary Jane is Akuma? Damn...I didn't think she was THAT ugly! As I always say though...any team with Dan on it is ready to win tourneys...

[box]

bad: mary jane = akuma because of the red hair

green gob = blackheart cause they look alike... well sorta

[Chun-Li's Pimp]

Did you just compare kirsten dunst to gouki? ...I'm gonna splurge in your face next time I see you jose...

Seems that doom looks more like Goblin than BH...and ANY FEMALE CHARACTER IN THE GAME LOOKS MORE LIKE MARY JANE THAN GOUKI. -_-

[Paxtez]

Too Lazy to read the whole thread, but let me enlighten you all =).


Top Tier is (in no particualr order) (A-List)
Storm, Sent, Cable, Mag

Its like Jun/Kan/Po (rock-paper-Scissors). They all do very well against eachother in certain situations. Yeah one on one you could make a real list, but whats the point, this isn't a one-on-one game.

Then there are two sub-tier 1 groups: assists and other good point people.

OGPP (B-List):
Strider
BH (Most likly not really, but IMHO)
Cyc
Sprial
IronMan

Assists (C-List):
CapCom
Psy
Cyc
BH
Doom
Guile (ok ok, I know he isn't.)

Those lists are also not in any order. Its too hard to list people in a real 'list', there is just too many variables, one assists differance can change everything.

It seems every good team is either:
AAA
AAC
ABC

[blue_J]

black heard gets shot alot easier than doom and there ways with regular character not just cable to hit him from his dash that cable can hyper him bck ti hell with.too much of a cable target and black heart is patern like once u know it its a breze to kill him
same way justin fob put it.

[Joe Zaza]

:lol:

Justus... you just DON'T like Akuma, do you?? No wonder you think he sucks!

BIASED I SAY!

[HyperViperSniper]

As much as I love Spiral she has a hard time against 3 of the "Big 4" in MVC2...

Storm with assists makes it almost impossible for Spiral to do a damn thing to her..Typhoons and hailstorms fuck up my 6 armed bitch..

Sent is just a bitch for Spiral to fight..she cant trade hits with him for shit and just has a tough time using any of her zoning tactics against him..give him an assist and Spiral has to really fight her ass off..

Mags is a toss up..if you dont have swords..he can stay on Spiral and fuck you up quick..if you get swords out and keep them going he cant get in on you..but thats a big "if" since he is so quick..

However..Cable shouldnt be a big problem for Spiral..unless he has either Capcom or Blackheart assist she can teleport all day on him..toss swords and bait Cable..he is the only god tier that I dont really have a tough time fighting..


some of the lower tier characters give Spiral a hard time..a few are Iceman..Megaman..Wolverine, Bonerine...Pretty much anyone with super armor..and a few others..but too much to think about right now ..too sleepy :)


My list would be as follows..

"The Big 4" aka God Tier
Storm
Sent
Mags
Cable


The Top Tiers..

Cyclops
Spiral
Strider
Doom
Iron Man


Honorable Mention

Cammy
Tron Bonne
Psylocke
Capcom


Then everyone else..


These are in no particular order..I just jotted them down..

okay later

HVS

[Dasrik]

Spiral doesn't have a hard time on Wolverine at all... once she loads swords, it's over for the most part. circle sword, reload, repeat.

I don't see how Megaman gives her trouble, either.

Marrow, on the other hand... :D

And blue_J, BH doesn't have to play patterns. Although I agree he dies to Cable, it's not nearly for free... more of a slow drawn-out death.

[blue_J]

Originally posted by Dasrik
Spiral doesn't have a hard time on Wolverine at all... once she loads swords, it's over for the most part. circle sword, reload, repeat.

I don't see how Megaman gives her trouble, either.

Marrow, on the other hand... :D

And blue_J, BH doesn't have to play patterns. Although I agree he dies to Cable, it's not nearly for free... more of a slow drawn-out death.

i have some reasent videos to show u all black hearsts are nearly the same.all his moves cant vary so much and with guard cancel its sooo easy to slay him...im gonna have the vids online soon there from aweek or two ago from cf.

[blue_J]

Originally posted by Joe Zaza
:lol:

Justus... you just DON'T like Akuma, do you?? No wonder you think he sucks!

BIASED I SAY!
u r avatar too good ;` )

[Ajil]

Here is my 2 cents

Top tier - Sent,storm, magz, cable
upper tier - cyke, doom, spiral and CC
honorable mentions - bh, psylocke, tbonne, ironman

One quick point I'd like to make is that imho doom is a better character than people think. He just needs an anti air assist to stop magz and sents from owning him. Most people put doom on as a 3rd character, and he dies to the top tier if he has no assist.
I was playing last night with doom,sent,cyke and doing fairly well against msc and mstbonne.

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by Ajil
Here is my 2 cents

Top tier - Sent,storm, magz, cable
upper tier - cyke, doom, spiral and CC
honorable mentions - bh, psylocke, tbonne, ironman

One quick point I'd like to make is that imho doom is a better character than people think. He just needs an anti air assist to stop magz and sents from owning him. Most people put doom on as a 3rd character, and he dies to the top tier if he has no assist.
I was playing last night with doom,sent,cyke and doing fairly well against msc and mstbonne.

Doom DOES NOT lose to any top tier one on one.
(although it sounds easy)
Cable gets rushed down.
Sentinel gets zoned.
Storm gets nothing for free.
Magneto has to be careful about df.hk and s.fp.

I agree on Doom being underrated. He has so many options.. but people just throw pink shit and think that's his whole game.

BTW- Doom beats Cyc (I see on most list that Cyc is higher than Doom. Wrong. Ground Photon's and j.fp own run away Cyc)

[YieArKungFu]

black heard gets shot alot easier than doom and there ways with regular character not just cable to hit him from his dash that cable can hyper him bck ti hell with.too much of a cable target and black heart is patern like once u know it its a breze to kill him
That's why real people don't play in patterns anymore, you make them think you are doing a pattern then they HVB and instead of demons ad demons you might sj then ad and block bam one super down and the only time I'm gonna HOD on a real cable player is if I can DHC come-on now just because any scrub can play BH doesn't mean he sucks, but yeah vs. Cable he's weak the fuck. Who else punishes BH flying screen after HOD for free?

Doom DOES NOT lose to any top tier one on one.
(although it sounds easy)
Cable gets rushed down.
Sentinel gets zoned.
Storm gets nothing for free.
Magneto has to be careful about df.hk and s.fp.
Dude I really wish I could play you...:lol: How the HELL does doom zone sent when sent can easily fly around 90% of dooms shit on reaction and don't even get me started on the other characters vs. doom the only things I even attempt vs. sent with doom is j.FP to keep him down and sj.LK, sj.MK, super photons with some ghetto rushdown attempts to do damage he really has few options... forreal maybe with BH assist he's that good but alone????????
Doom rushing cable :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't see how Megaman gives her trouble, either. reffering to Spiral, charged megabusters eat through swords like Oprah through a ho-ho but yeah I don't get that wolvie thing either please explain HVS...

[Reverend]

Originally posted by YieArKungFu

reffering to Spiral, charged megabusters eat through swords like Oprah through a ho-ho but yeah I don't get that wolvie thing either please explain HVS...

What, she can't teleport and load MORE swords? Bleh. Oh, and I guess I was putting too much stock in GCing against her, since it dawned on me that the only reason I've been doing it so much at the arcade is 'cause the locals don't know Spiral very well; thus, there are situations aplenty where I can GC stuff.

Here's a better question - how would everyone rank assists (i.e., which ones are the best and why)? I think Doom AAA, CapCom AAA, Tron Proj., and Ken AAA own most everyone else for free. Thoughts?

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by YieArKungFu

Dude I really wish I could play you...:lol: How the HELL does doom zone sent when sent can easily fly around 90% of dooms shit on reaction and don't even get me started on the other characters vs. doom the only things I even attempt vs. sent with doom is j.FP to keep him down and sj.LK, sj.MK, super photons with some ghetto rushdown attempts to do damage he really has few options... forreal maybe with BH assist he's that good but alone????????
Doom rushing cable :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Keep in mind I was talking about 1v1.

Also keep in mind that I said.

I agree on Doom being underrated. He has so many options.. but people just throw pink shit and think that's his whole game.

[Dasrik]

Doom doesn't beat Sentinel 1-on-1. No one does, outside of maybe Guile (and that's a HUGE fucking maybe). You absolutely positively need an anti-air assist on Sentinel or he will fly all over you all day for free. Just about any attack Doom could do on his own to Sentinel is a mistake. The only miniscule thing Doom has to help his matchup is ground photons, and that really is not anywhere close to good enough.

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by Dasrik
Doom doesn't beat Sentinel 1-on-1. No one does, outside of maybe Guile (and that's a HUGE fucking maybe). You absolutely positively need an anti-air assist on Sentinel or he will fly all over you all day for free. Just about any attack Doom could do on his own to Sentinel is a mistake. The only miniscule thing Doom has to help his matchup is ground photons, and that really is not anywhere close to good enough.

Hey... I just said 1vs1
Doom can zone Sent... I didn't mean he can beat him...

[YieArKungFu]

Hey... I just said 1vs1
HAHAHA thats why it's getting me weak:lol: :lol: :lol:
Doom can zone Sent... I didn't mean he can beat him...
No doom can't zone sent that's why sent sticks a giant metal foot up his ass.
and also I thought you said
Doom DOES NOT lose to any top tier one on one.
(although it sounds easy)
Cable gets rushed down.
Sentinel gets zoned.
Storm gets nothing for free.
Magneto has to be careful about df.hk and s.fp.

hmm if he doesn't lose to them, but he doesn't get beat, what the fuck are you talking about???? a draw???:lol: :lol: :lol:
Sent fucking owns Doom 1on1 like noone else, it is doom's worst match-up... If you weren't talking 1on1 your arguement might have some merit but given the facts I've come to the conclusion you don't know what the fuck you are talking about so maybe you should just retract your statements and start reffering to doom matchups with assists or go write a doom faq and post it on gamefaqs:p...

[BshidoHEAT]

Darsik, Omega Red can pull one out against Sent 1vs1.

Originally posted by YieArKungFu

HAHAHA thats why it's getting me weak:lol: :lol: :lol:

No doom can't zone sent that's why sent sticks a giant metal foot up his ass.
and also I thought you said

hmm if he doesn't lose to them, but he doesn't get beat, what the fuck are you talking about???? a draw???:lol: :lol: :lol:
Sent fucking owns Doom 1on1 like noone else, it is doom's worst match-up... If you weren't talking 1on1 your arguement might have some merit but given the facts I've come to the conclusion you don't know what the fuck you are talking about so maybe you should just retract your statements and start reffering to doom matchups with assists or go write a doom faq and post it on gamefaqs:p...

:sigh:

What I'm talking about is... Doom can take on anyone 1vs1 (if played smart)

Obviously YOU'VE NEVER SEEN A DECENT DOOM IN YOU'RE LIFE!!

Sent has to be careful, with no assist to cover his ass Doom's df.fk will beat (or trade with) Sents hard attacks.

Also a whole bunch of one time tricks like ground photon's xx flame super (which can catch Sent off guard, since it's hella fast) and if that hits then cross up sj throw into a whole bunch of shit.

It's pretty clear that you don't know shit.

You: :lol: x 20 You don't know the game what the fuck are you talking about.

how about posting some actual thoughts and strats, other than just. "lol lol lol lol" Until then don't even respond scrub.

Fucking :lame:

[YieArKungFu]

Dude is this guy a fanboy or what...:lame:
I don't want to turn this into a flame thread so I'll just stop posting in this shit after this, but who the fuck are you beating with fucking hks and zoning you have to be ontop of them to hk and not expect at least a lk,lk,rocketpunch in your grill. This is like doom's worst matchup and that flame super is lame as shit. If you throw that tactic off against a real sent you are either ballsy or stupid, if that shit hits it does like the weakest ass amount of damage to the person who takes the least damage in the game, if it doesn't hit expect their strongest combo up your ass cause that super has like the worst fucking lag ever, and against sentinal thats probobaly about 50-90% of your life depending on his levels and how close to the corner you are. Now stop talking before some newb reads this and actually thinks doom sent is even close to even and starts using that photons XX flame super garbage in hopes of getting a sent flying overhead and post some real strats.
I repeat DOOM DOES NOT "ZONE" SENT!!!!!!!

[Ajil]

okay here is the deal with sent vs doom. Doom does great as long as sentinel doesn't get above him. But it isnt that hard for sent to get up there. You can keep him down for a little while, but he's gonna get above your head, and then dooms options dwindle down to something like. Roman Candle super, which does shit damage and if misses your getting punished. Or try and pushblock a sent stomp and cancel to ground super photons. This also does terrible damage, but it gets him away and grounds him again. As for doom beating magz and storm 1on1, are you crazy? A good doom can compete, but he prolly isnt gonna win.

[YieArKungFu]

okay here is the deal with sent vs doom. Doom does great as long as sentinel doesn't get above him. But it isnt that hard for sent to get up there. You can keep him down for a little while, but he's gonna get above your head, and then dooms options dwindle down to something like. Roman Candle super, which does shit damage and if misses your getting punished. Or try and pushblock a sent stomp and cancel to ground super photons. This also does terrible damage, but it gets him away and grounds him again. As for doom beating magz and storm 1on1, are you crazy? A good doom can compete, but he prolly isnt gonna win.
word up...

[BshidoHEAT]

Before I go on, although I know I said
Doom DOES NOT lose to any top tier one on one.
(although it sounds easy)
Cable gets rushed down.
Sentinel gets zoned.
Storm gets nothing for free.
Magneto has to be careful about df.hk and s.fp.


Its more like "Doom's capabilities against them" than saying that "Doom DOES NOT lose to any top tier" probably gave some people the wrong impressions. (although he can WIN with a solid game plan against them)

YieArKungFu,

Yea.. you don't throw in words just to make your 'argument' better (Me a fanboy? Do you know what a fanboy is?)

I'm obviously not a n00b... I got 5th at the last tournament I played in, with some of the best players in FL there. Using OMEGA RED.

fucking hks and zoning you have to be ontop of them to hk and not expect at least a lk,lk,rocketpunch in your grill.

With this type of thinking you WILL get launched and supered.. Doom's df.hk will beat out almost everything. (from Cables jump in to Magneto's)

This is like doom's worst matchup and that flame super is lame as shit.

Because you never seen it work. Cross up in throws, unblockable set ups.. the super ISN'T about damage.. it's about what you can do after it. (kinda like his hk throw)

If you throw that tactic off against a real sent you are either ballsy or stupid

I've seldomly done this... it will catch them if they're sleeping.. (sorta like CapComs fire xx sword chain) and don't act like you HAVEN'T done anything ballsy or stupid (random tag out count as that, also random supers count as well)

if it doesn't hit expect their strongest combo up your ass cause that super has like the worst fucking lag ever, and against sentinal thats probobaly about 50-90% of your life depending on his levels and how close to the corner you are.

Like in most Sentinels match ups risk vs reward is always in Sents favor. But Doom's goning to have to throw something at Sent that is high risk and low in reward if he's going to have any chance to survive.

Now stop talking before some newb reads this and actually thinks doom sent is even close to even and starts using that photons XX flame super garbage in hopes of getting a sent flying overhead and post some real strats.

If you actually think that's the ONLY thing I have up in my sleeve for Sentinel... whatever...

As for doom beating magz and storm 1on1, are you crazy? A good doom can compete, but he prolly isnt gonna win.

I agree with most of you're post Ajil, Magneto vs Doom isn't so great.. but Doom's df.hk will stuff Magneto and Storm jump in's. And the s.fp will make Magneto think twice about dashing in carelessly. (and if Magneto is cornered in anyway j.hk xx fly isn't such a bad move)

As far as Storm is concerned Doom can ground photon to control the space, tiger knee photons to keep her from typhoon hail.. her jump ins have to be precise to dodge Doom's df.hk.. and I believe that Storm's s.hk will trade with Doom's fierce counter part.

All she can do is run with her in the lead.

YieArKungFu,
If you feel the need to, I'll be more than happy to debate in the Dr.Doom specific forum.

[YieArKungFu]

With