Entering the IT world

[ChaosNightWolf]

Hey everyone.

I figured I'd post this because someone on srk has to be familiar with the IT world.

I'v been interested in computers my entire life and I think I am certain that I would like to make it my career.

So my question is, how exactly do you get your foot in the door in terms of IT? Right now I am studying for my A + certification, and shortly after I would go for my network +. I am also looking into some type of microsoft certification though I am not sure which/in what order to take them.

Also, how important is an associates/bachelors and how does it compare to certifications? Is it more valuable or less? Equal?

Does anyone know how much money I can make in NY with just an A + alone?

Sorry for all the questions but Im hoping someone can help me :sweat:

Thanks.

[thurst]

A+ is just hardware certification, correct? everybody i know at college that is majoring in IT, CE or EE and a good number of CS majors have certs as well...so that's your competition, you can decide whether or not you need a BS.

[ShawnLoganownzu]

eh, i guess if youre still in high school A+ and stuff is still good. You should look at some MCSE stuff and CCNA certs too, those ones are alot better and more credible. A+ is really only useful if u wanna work like geek squad shit.

Now a days you really need a BA and certs.. my roomate just graduated with his BA and CCNA, other people i know graduated with BA's and MCSA's

it really depends what you wanna do, but you should go for the most you can

[pherai]

Eh, some of the dudes at my company don't have any sort of degrees, just certifications as far as I know. There aren't any real degree programs to work as an IT guy. Just be aggressive in looking for a job. Every company needs one, just some companies demand more from them than others.

[elvis_a_presley]

Speaking as an IT professional who has both a full degree and over 10 years experience in network/systems administration and senior IT management, I'm getting a little fed up with all these instant-certificate courses on offer.

There's a flood of young blood into IT at the moment, and the vast majority of them are severely lacking in both experience and formal training techniques that give a person a basic understanding of WHY they are doing something, and not just WHAT to do.

Certificate courses treat IT like a checklist. If problem A, then solution B. The problem with that is when posed with something new, these young kids stumble hard, and often cost companies lots of money.

As someone who does team leading, hiring and firing as part of their job, I'm tending to move away from hiring young guys with certificates. I put people through some pretty hard questioning before I employ them, and it's pretty obvious early on in the picture if a person is a "checklister" or a real thinker.

From my point of view, I can't help but recommend to do it right and get yourself a degree. Formal education is long and sometimes tedious, but there's something to be said for learning the fundamentals rather than just a gloss-over certificate. I have a degree, and honestly believe the years spent getting it were worthwhile. It taught me not only a greater understanding of the technologies I use every day, but more importantly gave me the skills to continue learning long after the degree was over. I'm also not limited to one field, and have experience in dozens of OSes, languages, networking systems and other tech that most certificate guys have never played with, thus limiting their employability.

I'm sure I'll get flamed to hell for saying half of this. But in the last 6 months I've interviewed over 50 guys and hired only 2 that I believe were worth the money and time. And those two had a little more under their belt than just a certificate.

On the other hand, a certificate is fast, and puts you in a mediocre job quickly earning an average salary. If you're happy with that sort of life, then go for it. It certainly wouldn't be enough for me.

[nomrah]

Experience counts far more than certs or a degree IMO. I graduated with a BS in Computer Science (which focuses more on coding/development not IT) and no certs, but I had 2 years of internships as well. Ended up working for one of the IT Consulting firms that I interned at right outta college, making a decent amount of change too. I'm just now persuing my certs, hoping to complete MCSA in a year or so.

My advice would be to go to college and get your degree. The college degree is like the high school degree nowadays, everyone's got one, and you'll really need one if you want to compete. The other really good feature of college is the amazing network you'll build, going to college gives you access to all the career fairs, co-ops, etc. not to mention all the contacts like friends and professors that can hook you up with some type of opportunity. Use this to your advantage, do all the internships you can, this is the best way to get your foot in the door and gain experience. You may even find an internship that works out really well and you can end up working for them.

[Gasp]

*subscribed*
whats everyones take on ITT tech? currently im going to get an associates, get A+ and network+ certs, and get some low level entry it job to get at least 1-2 years of experience (which to me is the highest priority in getting an it job) then get some higher certs MSCE/CCNA and after 3-4 years either go back to ITT for another two yearsto get a bachleors or just go to a 4 year is something I want to major in (art analysis,english,etc)
am i on the right path?

[poppinrice]

all i know is ITT Tech is easy to get into

u need to know like 3rd grade math

[Gasp]

yea the math and english classes are stupid easy my dick could be on fire and i'd be like oh yea carry the 7.
but the teachers are all msce certed or higher with over 5 years of exp. alot of them come to teach straight from their job and shit.so thats good references right there, but im curious how much worth does ITT have in the IT business

[nomrah]

*subscribed*
whats everyones take on ITT tech? currently im going to get an associates, get A+ and network+ certs, and get some low level entry it job to get at least 1-2 years of experience (which to me is the highest priority in getting an it job) then get some higher certs MSCE/CCNA and after 3-4 years either go back to ITT for another two yearsto get a bachleors or just go to a 4 year is something I want to major in (art analysis,english,etc)
am i on the right path?

If it were me I'd set my goals a little higher, why not go to a 4 year right away, it's hard to switch gears and go back to school full time after working for awhile. Shoot for something better than "some low level entry IT job" as you put it because you have to ask yourself, is the experience I'm going to get at that job be worthwhile at all? 1-2 years experience working Geek Squad or something like that, is not that noteworthy.

To answer your second post, honestly, IT places aren't going to take your ITT degree all that seriously, especially since you'll be compared to another guy who has all the same certs as you, but with a formal education from a respectable university.

[Gasp]

If it were me I'd set my goals a little higher, why not go to a 4 year right away, it's hard to switch gears and go back to school full time after working for awhile. Shoot for something better than "some low level entry IT job" as you put it because you have to ask yourself, is the experience I'm going to get at that job be worthwhile at all? 1-2 years experience working Geek Squad or something like that, is not that noteworthy.

To answer your second post, honestly, IT places aren't going to take your ITT degree all that seriously, especially since you'll be compared to another guy who has all the same certs as you, but with a formal education from a respectable university.

Well i feel that approaching a company with some certs and 1 or 2 years of exp (not necessarily as geek squad i was thinking more of network apprentice or w/e the title is) is better then some certs and no exp at all. ack that was what im kinda dreading. its an associates in Computer Networking Systems but can be boosted up to a bachelors in internet security systems or data com. systems. but then i'd be about 80 grand in the hole. i'd rather get a bachelors from a like you said respectable university im already a year in at my school. keep in mind that im only 19 right now with no exp. in any IT field.

[nomrah]

Well i feel that approaching a company with some certs and 1 or 2 years of exp (not necessarily as geek squad i was thinking more of network apprentice or w/e the title is) is better then some certs and no exp at all. ack that was what im kinda dreading. its an associates in Computer Networking Systems but can be boosted up to a bachelors in internet security systems or data com. systems. but then i'd be about 80 grand in the hole. i'd rather get a bachelors from a like you said respectable university im already a year in at my school. keep in mind that im only 19 right now with no exp. in any IT field.

I just graduated in May (just turned 22 a couple weeks ago) so I know what you're going through. Don't ever ever let student loans get in the way of getting your education. Because if you do it right, you'll have that 80 grand in no time. I borrowed an assload of money myself, but let me tell you, I'm not worried at all anymore now that I'm out and working.

I understand where you are coming from approaching companies with 1-2 years of experience, and this is exactly what you should do. My suggestion, is that you can get those 1-2 years of exp. through internships, while you are getting a 4 year bachelor's at a university. And as I mentioned before, getting an internship is a cakewalk at a university because of all the connections you'll gain.

[elvis_a_presley]

then get some higher certs MSCE

Just FYI: MCSE is not a "higher cert". They're utterly worthless here in AU. Could be a different story in the States.

[Manx]

If you're looking to get into this for money, think twice about it. There is money to be had, but if you're not serious you'll get bored really fast. I was just about to take on a position as a network analyst, which is a pretty simple position at my company, but I mentioned to my boss that I really don't want to be in the networking group (for a number of reasons) and he talked me out of it. The manager really isn't that friendly and all the guys under him stay because they love their job.

I really want to be in the mid-range systems (Unix/Linux) group or the one of the mainframe system groups. That's where you can be creative and brilliant and let it show. Babysitting a horde of problematic Windows servers isn't my idea of fun. Find out exactly what you want to do and good luck in your pursuit. :tup:

[Mixah]

*subscribes*

[LimeGreenPatato]

I'm sure I'll get flamed to hell for saying half of this. But in the last 6 months I've interviewed over 50 guys and hired only 2 that I believe were worth the money and time. And those two had a little more under their belt than just a certificate.

.


I dont know why you would get flammed for that. Not that i like overly hard interviews, where they ask me a bunch of pointless crap. But at my company especially they hire so many clowns that are able to talk a good game but have totally no skills to back it up, it's nice to see someone that actually takes the hiring process seriously.


Also....don't get into IT, you're not going to make any real money there.

[GreyFoxx]

Wow sounds like my position OP i like computers for years doing side jobs and basic stuff. Yet was wondering how i should go on my computer certification so A+ is basic entry stuff yet go for something higher? Good info Elvis thanks for your input!!!

[RXS]

Getting into IT isnt' bad.. it's easy to get into... but dont' expect to make good money right off the bat... chances are you'll end up in a call center for a while... most people do (not saying you can't go right into a level 2 support job)...but definitly go to school... get some certs.. and most of all.. once you have the job.. keep learning...

In terms of being technical... i've been in the business like 2 years now... and i've learned that the job is roughly 50-60% technical knowledge.. and about 40% politics/communication (ie. making things work in simple english and being able to manage your client/user/co-workers)...

Education wise... i went to a local college for 3 years and learned all i needed to know...i guess maybe my course was really good because my boss (who god bless him is well versed technically as well as in management skills) mentioned that out of the 60 peeps he had to interview for my job that I was the only one that knew what they were talking about and could hold an educated conversation about it. I PERSONALLY dont' think you need a university degree (only because i know a bunch of people in Computer sciences that dont' know shit) but whatever you think is best usualyl works.

[ethnic_scrap]

Depending on which area of IT you fall into, you gotta prepare for the long hours. I work as a junior DBA in one of the banks here, and we just carried out one of our major projects this year, integration with another bank. We came in on Friday morning, haven't been home yet, and it's now Monday morning.

Also ditto on the experience. Books and certs can only teach you so much. I remember when I first started here, I thought I was hot shit, cause Unix/Linux isn't really taught much in schools, but then I saw some of the shit that people did here, and holy fuck they are good. If you do a google on "certification vs experience" or something along those lines you'll pull up a lot of different articles on it.

And that's another thing, stop focusing too much on the MS certs. Definitely try to learn your way around Unix/Linux systems as well. I don't know how it is there, but most if not all of our production servers run on Unix/Linux. We have a Microsoft guy in our team, and sad to say he hardly gets in on any of the action.

[Etcetera]

Experience counts far more than certs or a degree IMO. I graduated with a BS in Computer Science (which focuses more on coding/development not IT) and no certs, but I had 2 years of internships as well. Ended up working for one of the IT Consulting firms that I interned at right outta college, making a decent amount of change too. I'm just now persuing my certs, hoping to complete MCSA in a year or so.

My advice would be to go to college and get your degree. The college degree is like the high school degree nowadays, everyone's got one, and you'll really need one if you want to compete. The other really good feature of college is the amazing network you'll build, going to college gives you access to all the career fairs, co-ops, etc. not to mention all the contacts like friends and professors that can hook you up with some type of opportunity. Use this to your advantage, do all the internships you can, this is the best way to get your foot in the door and gain experience. You may even find an internship that works out really well and you can end up working for them.
Hey, I have 3 more semester until I graduate with my degree in CS. I need to get an internship asap, and am not really sure how to go about finding one. My web searches just lead me toward actual professional jobs and the like. How did you go about landing yours? It might also be worth noting that I have had no major previous employment or any references, how much do you think that is working against me?

[thurst]

Eh, some of the dudes at my company don't have any sort of degrees, just certifications as far as I know. There aren't any real degree programs to work as an IT guy. Just be aggressive in looking for a job. Every company needs one, just some companies demand more from them than others.

most universities that have a communication school offer IT and infomatics in some form.

[tindiamond]

A+, I heard that cert is pretty simple to get but the test is too fucken long. Its like 4 hours, 2 hours hardware 2 hours of troubleshooting if I remember correctly. Now they took off windows 98 and added Vista to their testing. With an A+ cert, you can get a job as a microservices tech making about 25 gs a year. But that's here in Texas where the cost of living is low. The thing is that some IT departments DO NOT CARE about your education or degrees. In my IT department, they will hire basically anyone as long you're willing to learn then you got the job.

I recommend getting a CCNA cert. It looks better on a resume than A+ since CCNA is a fucken hard ass cert to get. I took it twice and failed.(stupid simulation fucked me up.) If you want to make big money, you might want to try and get a linux certification. There's aren't too many people now and days with good unix/linux based skills. That's wheres the money at. Linux > Windows

[ShawnLoganownzu]

Also....don't get into IT, you're not going to make any real money there.

good joke??


also like i said, get a degree (from a worthwhile college), get your higher end cert from whatever path you choose in IT, (web, security, programming, database, etc.) and move to a big city.. you will come out of college guarenteed no less than 60k a year. it also helps to have a year or two experience.

focus on one aspect of IT and become a master of it, thats how you make money.. you dont make money by being "ok" at everything, but you could make bank off of mastering one single language or program. If you dont believe me, you obviously dont understand the IT field.

[TheWholeFnShow]

Hey, I have 3 more semester until I graduate with my degree in CS. I need to get an internship asap, and am not really sure how to go about finding one. My web searches just lead me toward actual professional jobs and the like. How did you go about landing yours? It might also be worth noting that I have had no major previous employment or any references, how much do you think that is working against me?

Are there any career fairs at your school? Those usually had companies looking for interns and fulltime positions. I also recommend using craigslist. I graduated with a CS degree a year ago, and I found several job openings on craigslist. That's where I found my software engineer job. I got a lot more responses using craigslist than randomly applying on company sites. Hope that helps. :tup:

As a side note, internships and other related experience help a lot. I highly recommend people to get one before they graduate (i.e. summer before senior year). :wgrin:

[Pablo_the_Mex]

Mr. Shawn Logan or anyone willing to help, what would be best to focus on in the world of IT? Currently, I am working at an architecture firm doing tech support. I help my team with whatever needs to be done. I am not actually studying anything IT related, but I have been doing such work since high school. Once I graduate from college with my Political science degree, I would also like to get a cert in something just for the hell of it. That way if I don't use my degree, my IT experience would come in very handy.

[Lantis]

Everything floats down here....

....






















...Oh, sorry. Wrong "It".... :sweat:

Carry on...

[elvis_a_presley]

If you want to make big money, you might want to try and get a linux certification. There's aren't too many people now and days with good unix/linux based skills. That's wheres the money at. Linux > Windows

The majority of my work is Linux admin stuff, and while it's true that Linux admins get paid more, the problem is finding the work sometimes. Windows jobs are a dime a dozen, and the going pay rates reflect that, but there's a lot of choice out there. Linux jobs mean your field of choice is narrowed, but you command a better pay packet (and don't have to deal with Windows, which is a plus for me because I really loathe it).

It always pays to know a little of everything. Most Linux admins I know can run a Windows AD network in their sleep (and often run Linux servers attached to Windows workstations anyway). Ditto for enterprise Mac networks. While I'm not a big fan of certificates at the best of times, something like an RHCE is not a bad way to go if you want a job that pays more than your average Windows fixit-monkey position would.

[Koop]

Just stoppin in to say ...elvis rep given... great knowledge man... not my field but I deal with programming etc. so I feel you when it comes to having core solid knowledge of your field... again big ups playboi...

[tindiamond]

The majority of my work is Linux admin stuff, and while it's true that Linux admins get paid more, the problem is finding the work sometimes. Windows jobs are a dime a dozen, and the going pay rates reflect that, but there's a lot of choice out there. Linux jobs mean your field of choice is narrowed, but you command a better pay packet (and don't have to deal with Windows, which is a plus for me because I really loathe it).

It always pays to know a little of everything. Most Linux admins I know can run a Windows AD network in their sleep (and often run Linux servers attached to Windows workstations anyway). Ditto for enterprise Mac networks. While I'm not a big fan of certificates at the best of times, something like an RHEL is not a bad way to go if you want a job that pays more than your average Windows fixit-monkey position would.

I'm a Windows fixit-monkey. :( hahaha but it's true about what you say it pays to a little of everything. Here at my job you just learn basically Windows. But on my free time I'm usually messing with Slackware (distrobution of linux) and I can say my linux skills come in handy when messing with Mac. Once you learn linux those skills will transfer on to other OS's such as Mac and FreeBSD when you're messing with the shell. The more well-rounded you become with other OS's, the more doors you have open for you.

[jin11]

Hi, nice thread. Subscribed.

I'm a young student aspiring to enter this field as well, any advice for ones finishing University? A lot of people suggested to me, that I get some certificates [as it was posted here as well] but what I want to know is how do I move up the ladder from the entry level position and become something more than 'avg good' in the IT field.

Thanks for any help, great thread.

[ChaosNightWolf]

Does anyone know what (certifications + degree) vs (certifications without degree) is like?:sweat:

[nomrah]

Does anyone know what (certifications + degree) vs (certifications without degree) is like?:sweat:

What exactly do you mean? If two people have the same experience and certs, but one has a degree, it's probably safe to bet the person with the degree would get the job.

[ShawnLoganownzu]

snip

Depends what you like to do, i would say try everything out and see what you like/dislike... ive taken classes in everything and narrowed it down. Right now id have to say Networking is huge, especially with IPv6 coming. Companies pay really good money for networking consultation and analysis.

snip

Linux admins ftw, they do get paid bank and thats really the way to go. More companies should realize the security enhancements with it., but most companies use windows just because, like you said, any person can fix it.

Does anyone know what (certifications + degree) vs (certifications without degree) is like?:sweat:

eh, get a degree if anything. You can get a decent job with a degree + no cert.. in the IT world, you ideally need 5 years experience in ur field before you really start to pick up in pay. a very top end cert, like CCNP or CCIE is very, very nice though

[Shadowhaxor]

Alright, I'm going to add my 2 cents... take em for whats it's worth.

I've been employed in IT since I was 18 (I am 30 now), prior to that I worked in an arcade for 3 years. As far as tell you, if you are in school for either an A.S/A.A, BS or Masters, take a good long look at your long term goal. Yes, good jobs will come if you have your degree, but the world of IT has changed, and a degree will not automatically grant you a spot in a job with big money.

Experience + certifications vs a Degree and no experience is a big deal anymore. I've been in 2 colleges in my past and dropped out of both as my professors were stuck in the past and I was impatient in my youth. So if you are in school, its up to you to decide, but I will tell you that degrees will only grant you so far, unless its for programming or business. Anything regarding network administration, windows / linux administration, security and design, you are better off pursing those respected certifications for those. In my case, I have my A+, Network+, MCP 70210: Windows 2000, and a Server+. I've looking to get my MSCA or prolly CCNA. Also, linux administration is a big deal, and while windows is still king, linus plays a big role.

I don't agree anyone can fix windows issues...... we have over 50 people in our tech department, and me among 6 others are easily able to solve windows issues. It gets complicated when you add load balancing, clustering, SSL's, asp.net 1.0 / 2.0, ColdFusion and other technologies that are thrown into the mix.

Getting into the field, yes, likely if you don't have any connections, you will likely begin in a call center or as a field tech. When I started, I was working for a friends computer shop building boxes, doing service calls, websites and windows NT administration. I caught a break when I was doing some work for the local government, as they needed someone to come deploy computers. 4 months later, I was employed there as their sole network specialist for 2 years before I left to go work for a school district as a 2nd tier field technican for more money.

I didn't get my first cert until my 2nd year at the governemt, and my 2 others working for the school district. I left there after 4.5 years when they restructure and I knew I was going to lose my job. I was unemployed for about a month. I interviewed with 6 companies, and got 4 offers. I utlimately went with a local web hosting company, who currently has about 100,000 hosted sites and about 500 dedicated hosted servers (east coast).

I'm currently a TSA (technical service Analyst) which is the next step to a DE (Dedicated Engineer) for being here about a year. I had a chance to move to infrastructure, but that meant less time with my wife and kid... no thanks, you might be in a different situtation. Let me tell you this most important fact, family is worth more than money.. I learnt that when I lost my father 5 months ago now.

Basically I wanted to show progression and that options will open up if you work at it. My study has all been self learned, as well as my site design and network administration. If any needs help or has questions, I'll do my best to help you.

My number 1 belief is knowledge shared is knowledge gained.

Good luck!

[jin11]

Thanks shadowhaxor, it is great to know how certificates really help in todays world. I am 20 years old, and gonna be getting a university degree in the next 3 years, I wanna pursue my CCNA soon, maybe while I finish up my degree and hopefully have more qualifications completed by then as well.

[angryliberal]

i've been in the it field for 5 years now, small to medium business network administration. 99% of my knowledge has come from experience, not the classroom. i'm not saying this as a global fact, but simply from my experience. i think the best thing to do is work under someone experienced for a few years before deciding what you wnat to do in the it field. i was basically thrown right into a administration position and went through some long, tough nights fixing server issues.

no problem has a checklist answer. the best thing you can do is understand how something works not how the manual says to fix it.

other than that, pretty much everything has been seen...

[TheDarkPhoenix]

great thread

[lonewolf6465]

I guess I'll throw my hat into the ring, I just graduated in May with a BS in Information Systems Management from Duquense Uni. Essentially my degree focuses on systems design with respect to the functions of any part of a business. There's a few other chunks tossed in as well, windows networking, programming (perl/vb.net), e-commerce, and small scale datawarehousing.

As nomrah mentioned I have a boat load of loans to payback too, but I'm not really worrying about it because I know I'll be able to get a job doing pretty much anything non programming related, and everyone needs IT people.

Hell, I just started work this past Monday and bought an 08 Lancer the same day. (My job is working a couple months at the helpdesk to get familiar with a proprietary software package for medical billing, then I'll be traveling to install it on site in hospitals)

As for certs, none of the places I interviewed at asked me for them, or mentioned during the interviewing process about them at all. So those might just depend on the type of job/the company.

And oh, hi nomrah. congrats getting out of Case.

[nomrah]

And oh, hi nomrah. congrats getting out of Case.

Sup man, congrats to you as well. Long time no speak to say the least, lol that SRK is where we meet again.

[lonewolf6465]

Sup man, congrats to you as well. Long time no speak to say the least, lol that SRK is where we meet again.

thanks, not to hijack the thread but take care of yourself.


--
To stay on topic I thought of some other stuff, as I was interviewing looking for a place to work experience really didn't seem to be taken too much into consideration as much as the specifics of the classes I had taken versus what I wanted to do. I knew I didn't want to be a programmer and a lot of the IT jobs I found had to do with a good amount of it. I finally found a place where I could just install and setup clients and work with an SQL backend, while some other guys were creating the program. I guess what I'm trying to say is that in my limited IT experience it's all about finding your niche, like networking? There's a ton of certs and get a degree in it, or Unix, programming what have you. That way when you go to look for jobs you can tailor your searches. I went on a lot of interviews where half way through the job description i had read wasn't what I thought it would be. BUT at the least it's good practice to go on multiple interviews so you can learn to be comfortable for the one you go to for the job you really want.

Then again I've only worked for a week, that's just my two cents.

[marcusg]

I really like this thread. Please continue to tell us about the experience in this field.
I am thinking about being a Database Administrator for some time. I also read about other peoples experience in this position. Is being a DBA tough and demanding, do DBA get phone calls 3:00am because there is a problem occurred. What can I do get some experience in being a DBA?

[Rod Driguez]

As far as a DBA being a tough job, that probably is relative to the company's size and what platforms they deal with. And how much help you have... in other words, how much they ask per DBA on staff.


It is not a low-end job, don't expect to be one after a couple of years doing helpdesk or anything. Doesn't appear to be rocket science, but there is a lot of responsibility with the position. I have been into database programming for a couple of years now and have some understanding of what they do, at least for my company. I could probably move in the DBA direction with the right classes and exposure. So getting a foothold with programming might be an option you want to pursue, that's much easier to break into.

[pherai]

I haven't been at my company very long, but from what I can tell, we have some pretty serious staff turnover among the DBA's due to the stress level of the job. You are handling data, so if something screws up, it becomes a big deal, unlike runtime/functionality errors, where you can always roll back to an earlier version, but I think DBA's make more money than programmers, so, hey, its a tradeoff. I'm only like halfway done with my CS degree, so I'm not sure if schools give a lot of DB programming experience, so I'd try to get an internship.

I'm not sure if this is appropriate, but if anyone is looking for a programming internship in the LA area, pm me.

[fishjie]

i have a friend in IT who i dont think has any certs (maybe an A+), he just went to community college and started picking up whatever jobs he could. he does contract work right now. i can tell you right now that most ppl who get certs still dont know anything. for example, our IT guy tells me horror stories. ppl who got the networking certs couldnt even tell him what a reverse DNS lookup was. LOL!

if you want to learn, the best way is doing. you are getting ripped off to go to school to pay to learn IT stuff that you could easily learn on your own.

for example, want an A+ cert? just build your own computer, and when it stops turning on, cry as you troubleshoot all the possibilities on your own. that's what i did a few months ago (i ended up basically building a new one from scratch). it will be a valuable learning experience.

[marcusg]

Thanks for the information guys, I really appreciate it. Now I have a lot of research to do.

[AcEtUrNeDjOkEr]

Will post when I have more time about this....

[Raon]

I'm deciding on which book/study guide to purchase so that I can self-study for the MCSE cert, and would like some suggestions as to what's worth buying.

I was thinking of getting this (http://www.amazon.com/Self-Paced-Training-70-290-70-291-70-293/dp/0735622906/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-5081824-4582423?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186070102&sr=8-1) simply because it's the top result for "MCSE" in Amazon, but I dunno...4000 pages for all the exams?

And um...how many months of study would it take to prepare for the MCSE exam? I'm down for having to re-read thousands of pages all over again, but I don't want to take more than a year studying for a single cert.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

Real world experience owns and is the only reason I am even working in IT. I am making decent money in a field I never took classes for. Once I am more experienced and graduate from UW, I will start looking into certs. All I had to get me started in the field was an internship back in highscool, along with my random windows and computer building knowledge that has taken me this far.

[AcEtUrNeDjOkEr]

I'm deciding on which book/study guide to purchase so that I can self-study for the MCSE cert, and would like some suggestions as to what's worth buying.

I was thinking of getting this (http://www.amazon.com/Self-Paced-Training-70-290-70-291-70-293/dp/0735622906/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-5081824-4582423?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186070102&sr=8-1) simply because it's the top result for "MCSE" in Amazon, but I dunno...4000 pages for all the exams?

And um...how many months of study would it take to prepare for the MCSE exam? I'm down for having to re-read thousands of pages all over again, but I don't want to take more than a year studying for a single cert.

I took a test every month (still need to finish), out the four I have taken, the books honestly didn't tell you much. Its like reading wikipedia on a topic, you get the overall view, but to get more in-depth on the subject you need to either have experience with it or talk to someone who has been in the IT world for a while.


As for me, I am a GMU grad of 05 with a BS in IT. Been working on computers since high school and haven't stopped yet. Windows mostly, with some Mac and little bit of linux.

If I were to do my college career again, I would of gotten my certs in HS and then work with a company while getting my degree. Make the company pay for it of course. Would of taken longer, but experience in the IT world is key!

[ShawnLoganownzu]

I'm deciding on which book/study guide to purchase so that I can self-study for the MCSE cert, and would like some suggestions as to what's worth buying.

I was thinking of getting this (http://www.amazon.com/Self-Paced-Training-70-290-70-291-70-293/dp/0735622906/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-5081824-4582423?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186070102&sr=8-1) simply because it's the top result for "MCSE" in Amazon, but I dunno...4000 pages for all the exams?

And um...how many months of study would it take to prepare for the MCSE exam? I'm down for having to re-read thousands of pages all over again, but I don't want to take more than a year studying for a single cert.

you should find out what a mcse entails first... its a lot of cramming and studying.. a few people i know took their time, couple years, to get it.

[AcEtUrNeDjOkEr]

you should find out what a mcse entails first... its a lot of cramming and studying.. a few people i know took their time, couple years, to get it.

They are starting to roll out the 07 test and getting rid of the win 2k3 test. IMO get the Win 2k3 MCSE, most companies (if there smart) will not even think about moving to 2k7 until about mid 2008.

MCSE really isn't too bad. If you have been using windows in a work environment as an IT specialist, you shouldn't have a problem with getting it over a course of a year. Also, there are different paths you can go down for your MCSE, I took the Active Directory path (cause every company uses AD).

I have some study material that I can pass to some if REALLY interested.

[AkumaTX]

Experience -> degree -> certs

That is the rule or it should be the rule in my opinion. Also realize that working with computers is not the high point it once used to be since many jobs have started to get outsourced, and the pay has gone down slightly. IF you have the patience for it, go for it, but if you dont, find something else.

[ShawnLoganownzu]

Experience -> degree -> certs

That is the rule or it should be the rule in my opinion. Also realize that working with computers is not the high point it once used to be since many jobs have started to get outsourced, and the pay has gone down slightly. IF you have the patience for it, go for it, but if you dont, find something else.

i think its

Experience -> who you know -> degree -> certs

:D something like that

[AkumaTX]

Thats what i believe it used to be. Now adays you have so many young punks getting jobs that they think they know how to do, when in reality they dont. With the degree and experience, atleast you have an idea of who you are getting and such. Maybe im just pissed at the turn around and all the firing and hiring i have to put up with.

[The Green Trench Coat]

Hey everyone.

I figured I'd post this because someone on srk has to be familiar with the IT world.

I'v been interested in computers my entire life and I think I am certain that I would like to make it my career.

So my question is, how exactly do you get your foot in the door in terms of IT? Right now I am studying for my A + certification, and shortly after I would go for my network +. I am also looking into some type of microsoft certification though I am not sure which/in what order to take them.

Also, how important is an associates/bachelors and how does it compare to certifications? Is it more valuable or less? Equal?

Does anyone know how much money I can make in NY with just an A + alone?

Sorry for all the questions but Im hoping someone can help me :sweat:

Thanks.

Please don't do it! i've been in IT for 13 years. If you love it than do it.. if you absolutely don't .. do something else. I wish i had.








...


but the money is unbelivable when you hook yourself up.

[Milk Stone]

Please don't do it! i've been in IT for 13 years. If you love it than do it.. if you absolutely don't .. do something else. I wish i had.








...


but the money is unbelivable when you hook yourself up.

So you don't like it?



Also, after reading this thread, I'm kind of reconsidering my major... maybe I should move into another field altogether if there are tons of young blood getting instant-certificates and such.

I've always been skeptical about it.

[The Green Trench Coat]

So you don't like it?



Also, after reading this thread, I'm kind of reconsidering my major... maybe I should move into another field altogether if there are tons of young blood getting instant-certificates and such.

I've always been skeptical about it.

someone once gave me some advice that i discarded as some tired old bitch that just is trying to keep me from making money. but ill tell you what he said:
"what ever you do make sure you love it"

sounds simple but it's true.

Think about the things you are passionate about in life.. before you start in this trac remember that you may.. like myself and like so many others in this feild... you may get stuck doing something you are really good at .. rather than doing something you are really passionate about.

My advice to you is to think really about the things you really dream of doing and put your heart and mind into that feild.. no matter if it's Porno director, an astronaut, game developer.. You have an opportunity to follow your heart and do what you love you should take the time to see if it's at all possible to follow in that career as opposed to the easy money you can make (maybe) in this feild.


I say maybe. Cause even after all your training if you get stuck supporting end users you will get disenchanted and suicidal really quickly.

[marcusg]

Dammit I am really skeptical about this field now. Its interesting while at school and studying but will I still like it when I get a job? I like working with my hands and doing a little programming here and there. If the boss are always on your ass I don't want to get in this field.

[AkumaTX]

Dammit I am really skeptical about this field now. Its interesting while at school and studying but will I still like it when I get a job? I like working with my hands and doing a little programming here and there. If the boss are always on your ass I don't want to get in this field.



someone wil always be on your ass simply because whether you like it or not, IT work is always delicate. Sure you can bs some excuses but eventually the work will be done. THe problem comes when explaining things since there is a huge difference between regular computer users and you.

[pherai]

Dammit I am really skeptical about this field now. Its interesting while at school and studying but will I still like it when I get a job? I like working with my hands and doing a little programming here and there. If the boss are always on your ass I don't want to get in this field.

It depends on your manager, this is just office stuff. If you are doing development or testing work somewhere, there is always too much to do, and you generally have many stakeholders with conflicting interests, biding for your time. Thankfully I have a pretty laid back manager, and the pressure that I feel in my work never really impacts my life. Also, if everyone pursued what they love, I don't think we'd get a lot done. Get a job in doing something you like at least though.

[angryliberal]

i just got a job offer to become the it manager for a small firm in san diego. it's a 50% pay increase over my current job and it's a much smaller enviorment...

[Rooks4]

Well, I personally started in IT and eventually moved into Software Engineering.. Im a Comp Sci grad and coding just seemed to be my forte.

Without experience you are just a schmoe with a sheet of paper(certs.) Certs aren't worth crap in my opinion. There's so many resources out there and 'cheat sheets' that basically list out the EXACT questions you will see on the test. Just study that for a few days, take the test, and BOOM you are certified! (Im sure not all of them are like this, but I went through a few in college and that's how it was for me.)

If you are still young, your best bet is get a BS. There's a lot of upside to it. First, you'll learn a lot of theory depending on WHAT degree you chose. I like Comp Sci personally, and it will help you a LOT in IT. Scripting, Coding, OS Theory, Algos, DB Theory.. It's all VERY applicable to the field. I've been told that an IS degree is basically "The Pussies CS Degree" because it's much more lienent on theoretical courses and math pre-reqs - so if you aren't good with calculus and/or don't want the theory, there ARE other options.. No offense to any IS grads - it's just what I was told.

The other benefit, is while you are going to college you can find an internship which will net you that very important experience. Sure, you might be doing bullshit user help desk and basic PC support shit, but that counts for SOMETHING. And when the shit hits the fan and the network team is pulling an all-nighter trying to rebuild some servers, tagging along and watching goes a LOOOONG way. Plus, they tend to pay decent money while you are at it (12-15$ an hour I suppose.. Not great, but better than some fast food shit and you don't have to deal with asshole tourists at a restaurant.)

Finally, the degree itself will get you an entry level position just about anywhere. When all these companies have a choice of getting Joe Nobody with no degree and a handful of certs, and you with a degree and some internship experience, you'll be getting the call. It puts you a step ahead.

Also, grab some books off Amazon on network security, administration, topology, etc etc. I can't express how much reading can do for you, if you can stand it.

Just my 2cents.

[Larva18]

Here is a quick question for fellow IT workers; how much are you currently earning+ years in service? I want to gauge how am i doing work-wise. I'll start:



Years working: 5th year this year
Started as: Tech Support
CUrrently: DBA Manager
Degree: BS Comp sci(no certs)
Earning: about 60k a year now

[sixtymhz]

Learn linux and become a consultant. GGPO. (points to his sig)

[AcEtUrNeDjOkEr]

Here is a quick question for fellow IT workers; how much are you currently earning+ years in service? I want to gauge how am i doing work-wise. I'll start:



Years working: 5th year this year
Started as: Tech Support
CUrrently: DBA Manager
Degree: BS Comp sci(no certs)
Earning: about 60k a year now


Years working: 2-3 years
Started as: Intern/IT Specialist
Current: Sys Admin
Degree: BS Information Technology (MCP)
Earning: 55k

[Pablo_the_Mex]

Years working: 1 at current job (had a summer internship in highschool)
Started as: Contract/Temp
Current: Tech Support/fix it monkey/macking on interns
Degree: None (I do political science and still in school), completely unrelated)
Earning: 40k

[fjf314]

I've been told that an IS degree is basically "The Pussies CS Degree" because it's much more lienent on theoretical courses and math pre-reqs - so if you aren't good with calculus and/or don't want the theory, there ARE other options.. No offense to any IS grads - it's just what I was told.

I'm an IS student and I will admit that this is, for the most part, true. I started off in CS, but I was absolutely terrible when it came to high-level math (Calculus II) and low-level programming (Assembly.) I can do just fine with high-level languages, but I don't think I would've passed Assembly or any of the courses using it.

I don't think I would go so far as to say that IS is more lenient on theory, they just focus the theory in different areas, although I think that also has to do with differences between CS programs. The CS program at my school doesn't touch databases or anything like that. It's more about straight-up software development, coding, OS theory, etc. While IS requires a little in the way of coding and scripting, it also deals with areas like networking, databases, and interfaces in both theory and practice. Overall, though, the IS courses thus far seem to be easier and don't have as harsh of a time investment as the CS courses.

Also, grab some books off Amazon on network security, administration, topology, etc etc. I can't express how much reading can do for you, if you can stand it.

Do you have any particular recommendations? I always end up looking at books on Amazon and in different bookstores, but I have no clue what titles are actually worth reading and which are garbage. If you could post some books you recommend (I'm particularly interested in network security and databases), I would really appreciate it.

[Gasp]

you guys are really making me regret going to ITT, to get a A.S in Computer Networking, and especially consider getting a B.S in Internet Security. I'm kinda worried now since im 4 years behind in regular school.
anyways, about linux administrators, are Red Hat Certs that special? what prestige do they hold over regular linux administrating certs? i dont really have the money to try out and learn red hat so im curious.

[fiveten]

im learning about linux, what is being a linux/unix professional like? is it harder than working in web design or databases? i really wasn't considering linux as a profession, but i have been getting into linux lately. if i like it, i will probably study for a job in that field instead of web or database work. i'm reading that linux guys make a lot of money, is it worth getting into?

btw, great thread. i had to subscribe. possible sticky in tech forums?

[ninja sentinel]

Like everybody said in here, employers always look for experience first, they're not gonna care about how many certificates you got.

In a couple of countries though, if you want a better job, you'll need to get a master or PHD degree.
someone once gave me some advice that i discarded as some tired old bitch that just is trying to keep me from making money. but ill tell you what he said:
"what ever you do make sure you love it"
...

I hear ya. I have been working for 3 years in IT after I got my engineering degree, but I must say that I'm disappointed and wish I could've chosen another field. Even though I'm not a director, VP, CIO etc, I find this field tiring and very stressful, I don't have fun at all.

I've had a discussion with a wise man too, he said pretty much the same thing. Make sure you love whatever you do ... if there are obstacles, just find a way to go around them to achieve your goals.

[fishjie]

havent you guys watched office space? most people don't enjoy their work, but that's ok. you're not supposed to. as long as you make money, money can buy happiness. can you really be happy doing something you love but living in a shack with no health care, barely able to pay the bills and fearful of going bankrupt every day? wouldn't you be happy making more money, thus enabling you to afford good health, a good home, good food, lots of entertainment, and the best "stuff" to finance your hobby, the activity you really enjoy?

TRICK QUESTION

I enjoy my job and it pays good so lulz

i'd say, find a profession that you don't loathe and that doesn't make you too miserable, and as long as you're well compensated then good for you.

[Donger]

Hi-

As someone around the "mid management" level (maybe CIO-level in a small company), I'd recommend the traditional IT paths for you ONLY if you have love for the game. Every few years you need to turn your knowledge over about 80% of the time, so it's a constant effort to keep your skills up to date.

Certifications - those are fine for people who are just starting out. I usually give alot more weight to the work experience, and tech them out properly during the interview.

In terms of salary...you're only going to get to the higher levels ($175k+) if you are either well rounded (i.e. can lead a team, have business/management skills), or if you're an innovator and can execute on a business idea to completion. If you want to stay a 'skilled worker', then your limit is probably around $125k, which happens after about 8-10 years of experience. Not sure about CCIE's, it's probably a little higher than this (I took the applications/DBA track).

Depending on your expertise, you can also go into consulting, which is another topic altogether. In my company, the 'going rate' for people leaving is about $125-150 per hour. If you're a total stud (e.g. you're well known, you've written a book, etc.) then the sky is the limit.

Donger