Gief knowledge

[Beeble]

This is all the stuff I know with gief... I was gonna make a vid but due to lack of recording equipment and the scene where I am it's not gonna happen. So here it is in wonderful text form.

GIEF SPECIFIC NOTATION
SPD (Spinning Pile Driver) - 360 + p
FAB (Final Atomic Buster) - 360 + p
RBG (Running Bear Grab) - hcf + k
ARS (Aerial Russian Slam) - dp + k
BF (Banishing Flat) - dp + p
lariat - pp or kk
nuts - df + k throw
bite - hk throw, k after dash
flop - d+hp in air

GROUND ASSIST (A)
- alpha counter can be cancelled into FAB
- sets up for supers/snaps nicely (4 hits)
- good OH setup (only hits high, so opponents duck so no chip)
- gb setup: call gief, jump + attack, opponent gets hit by gief
Generic - Jump, call gief, air throw into
Iron Man - cr.lk + call gief, cr.lp, j.lp, j.lk, j.lk, j.uf+hp, inf
Magneto - cr.lk, cr.hp, sj.hk, ad/df, d+lk, lk, land, j.lk + call gief, j.hp, j.hk, tempest (the end can be inputted anywhere during rom reps)
- cr.lk, cr.hp, sj.hk, ad/df, d+lk, lk, land, j.lk + call gief, j.hp, j.hk, land, sj.lk, ad/df, cr.lk (reset) ... (ditto for here)
- cr.lk + call gief, cr.lk, dash, rom
- in corner, launch, magic, hp throw, cr.hp + call gief, sj.hp, ad/d, hp, land, snapback/cr.hp...
- in corner, launch, magic, hp throw, cr.hp + call gief, sj.lp, sj.hp, d+lk, lk, rom
Morrigan - cr.lk, cr.hp + call gief, sj.lk, sj.d+hk, darkness illusion
Rogue - s.hk + call gief, (hold forward), sj.lk, sj.hp, lk, kiss
Sentinel - s.hk, magic, fly, hp throw, f.lk + call gief, f.hp, unfly, dash, s.hk...
- call gief, hp throw, s.hp, hp rocket punch, HSF
- s.hk, sj.lp, sj.lk, fly, ff.lp + call gief, f.hk, unfly...
Storm - cr.lk + call gief, cr.lk, s.hk otg, sj, ad/f, lk, lk, lightning attack x2, lightning storm
- cr.lk + call gief, cr.lk, s.hk otg xx lk typhoon xx hailstorm
- cr.lk + call gief, cr.lk, s.hk otg, sj, ad/f, lk, cr.lk... (mixup with trijumps etc...)
- in corner, s.hk, sj.hk, ad/df, hk, land, s.lk, s.lp, s.hp, s.hk, call gief, hk throw, repeat

THROW ASSIST (B)
Chun Li - in corner, s.hk, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.lp, sj.d+hk, call gief
Magneto - launch, magic, ad/uf, magic, fly, call gief, unlfy
- launch, sj.hk, ad/df, d+lk, lk, j.lk + call gief, j.lk
- call gief, dash, rom
Iron Man - cr.lk + call gief, cr.lp, dash, inf
Sentinel - in corner, s.hk, magic, fly, hp throw, f.lk + call gief, unfly
Storm - in corner, s.hk, sj.hk, ad/df hk, s.lk, s.lp, s.hp, s.hk, j.lp + call gief

SNEAKY DHCs
Setup throws with things like AHVB! Good times.
Cable - cr.lk, cr.lk, s.hk, hp psimitar xx HVB, DHC FAB
Cammy - launch, magic, air throw, cr.lk, cr.lk (whiff), qcf+kk, DHC FAB
- hp throw, cr.lk, hk cannon drill xx KBA, dash up, qcb+kk, DHC FAB
Hayato - b+lp (plasma series start), lp, hp, lk, lp, (non plasma series link) cr.hp, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.lp, sj.d+hk (whiff), qcf+pp, DHC FAB
- in corner, b f+pp (command throw), cr.hp xx qcf+kk, DHC FAB
Magneto - launch, magic, ad/uf, magic, tempest, DHC FAB
- launch, sj.hp, ad/df hp, hk, land, cr.hk, tempest, DHC FAB
- launch, sj.hk, ad/df, d+lk, lk, tempest, DHC FAB
- in corner, cr.lk, s.hp, sj cancel, ad/f hp, tempest DHC FAB
Rogue - in corner, cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.hp, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.d+hk, super DHC FAB
Ruby Heart - cr.lk, cr.lk, cr.hk, lk sublimation, j.hp, dash, partinelle, DHC FAB
Sentinel - hp throw, cr.lp, fly, ff.lk, f.lk, turbine, DHC FAB
- cr.hk, ff.lk, f.hk, turbine, DHC FAB
Wolvie (ME) - in corner, cr.lk, s.hp xx Fatal Claw DHC FAB

GENERIC DHC SETUPS
- rush super (good on block), dhc (works well with shotos where last part is overtop opponent)
- dp, air super, dhc (a la cable, also works with ryu, cyclops, sonson etc...)

NOTE - for shits and giggles, other throw supers may be subbed in for FAB (akuma/d.sakura raging demon, dan suicide, sim yoga strike [specific DHCs only], bb hood hyper apple for you)

COMBOS/THROW SETUPS
- cr.lk, cr.lp, sj.lp, sj.lk, SPD
- cr.lk, cr.lp, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.hp, land, follow up
- cr.lk, cr.lp, sj.lp, sj.lk, pp lariat, land, cr.lk(pseudo crossup), cr.lp relaunch [or] jump back flop, df+lp relaunch [or] follow up throw
- cr.lk, s.hk, lk ARS
- cr.lk, s.hk (one hit), hp BF, follow up throw
- in corner, nuts, otg cr.lk, cr.lp...
- (blocked) s.lp, s.lk, lp BF, follow up throw
with mags(a)- crossup flop + call mags, s.lk, s.lk, RBG/FAB
- in corner, bite/nuts, otg cr.lk + call mags, cr.hp, jump in hp SPD
- in corner, bite/nuts, otg cr.lk + call mags, s.lk, j.lk, follow up throw
- in corner, flop + call mags, s.lk, lk ARS
- in corner, flop + call mags, s.lk, s.hp, lp BF, follow up throw
with sent(y)
- jump in flop, s.lk, s.lk, lariat xx FAB framekill dhc HSF (for those of you who prefer guaranteed combos)
- cr.lk, cr.lp + sent, sj.lp, sj.u+lp, lp (on way down), follow up throw
- crossover flop + call sent, cr.lk, cr.lp, reset
with spiral(a)
- cr.lk + call spiral, cr.lp, sj.lp, sj.u+lp, cr.df+hp relaunch
- cr.lk + call spiral, cr.lp, hold forward when you follow the launch, sj.lp, sj.hp, reset
- cr.lk + call spiral, s.hk, lk ARS follow up throw
with doom(b)
- cr.lk + call doom, s.hk, lk ARS, j.lp, reset
with most assists
- in corner, bite/nuts, otg cr.lk, + call assist...
to mecha gief
- flop, s.lk, f+lariat, transform (transform on last hit to knock away or earlier to keep opponent near, can be used to setup throws/combos)

FOLLOW UP THROWS
SPD
RBG
FAB
walk up nuts
dash throw
psychic lk ARS
Jump in air SPD

ARS MOVEMENT
- use hk ARS as a better normal jump to cover long distances and crossup
- you come out in jump mode so you can call assists
- bait with lk ARS when they expect the hk version
- if you feel lucky, use it as a psychic on wakeup
- useful to fake "jump" in, then throw (use aerial SPD for most surprise factor)

ON MECHA GIEF
- mecha gief (rdp+lk) can't block, but cannot be hit out of anything, only thrown
- use sparingly. Not a bad idea in a 1v1 situation (depending on who its against). Not worth it to pop first thing in a round and switch
- his ARS sucks. it goes no where close the distance of normal giefs. DONT USE IT
- fire is good to stuff other assists
- remember to switch playstyles. Mecha gief can't block so go all out
- you can transform back to normal gief using the same command, and since it only costs one meter this is a good idea at times
- crossup flop + call sent, s.lk, s.lk, hp breath (xx super if you really want to, but damage isn't too hot after all the buffering, dhc possibility though, can also be used to set up normal gief pop)

HK CANCELLING
I'm not sure as to how useful this is, but I do know that it isn't worthless. So you can SJC gief's s.hk on the second hit. The trick for the timing is to do both the down and the up motion of the SJ during the second hit. This can be used with assists to extend an otherwise short combo. The two I found to work are with spiral (a) and thanos (a).

Cr.lk, s.hk + assist, SJC, lk, lp, hp.

You can follow up thanos assist with another combo. Spirals can lead to either a tick throw or a relaunch with df+hp.

RANDOM NOTES
- with mags, if you connect a cr.lk on a short character or a croucher, and want gief a assist to connect, use cr.lp as a follow up
- if you are interested in gief's y assist, check out murakumo's second dhalsim vid; at the end there's some really nice guaranteed resets. It's better then anything I can come up with. Also Check out his own gief vid.
- mashable: bite, nuts. Mashed nuts does 48 damage(!!!). Do 360s during SPD/FAB for more damage.
- you can air spd standing characters
- check out the srk newbie thread under mvc2 general for advice on mashing (courtesy of joe zaza). It can also be applied to getting more damage out of SPD/FAB
- trick from Higher Jin: after hp air combo finisher (midscreen), hold back. This will put gief into flying screen but in dash range, pretty much guaranteeing a throw
- after landing a RBG/SPD (where the opponent is thrown away), if they roll you can cross them up via FAB DHC HSF during the roll (they will roll behind sentinel). Other anti-roll options include jump back flop and standing SPD. Opponents will learn to stop rolling.
- alpha counters with (a) gief are sweet. If your point character is getting rushed down do a 360 during block starting with the alpha counter, then continue rolling the joystick for a FAB.
- if you land a lariat, you can cancel into FAB then framekill DHC into stuff like hail/proton canon/HSF for guaranteed damage
- you can 'float' in the air by just doing whiff spds. Good vs sentinel who will want to ub you whenever you jump.
- empty jump ins are your friend. If you do knees (d+lk) or flop or lariat while jumping, you don't get to do anything else until you land so be wary.
- poke and poke and poke. His normal lights may not be on par with other chars, but they are pretty good for block strings and more importantly, setting up throws.
- don't rush blind, you'll get killed. Play smart and deliberately.
- Ultimate Atomic Buster aka UAB aka the level 3 super (360+kk) is useless. It's a waste of 3 meters. Don't use it
- to avoid sent UB when snapped, do an aerial spd when you come on screen to float

VIDS TO CHECK OUT
- murakumo's gief vid (really crazy aaa assist stuff)
- djb13's TotT vol.24
- magnetro's gief vid

[shoultzula]

gawd damn, good run down. I've actually been fucking with gief myself but since i've never learned how to 360, I generally don't play gief for low tier. I'll post up some tricks I know later.

[Augmint]

d+Lk, Hk (hits twice), call drones on 2nd hit, lk ARS onto drones , gief still in air - Lk, land 360 grab or FAB, whatever.
Can do Lk mk lariat too depending on how close to the opp gief is after the slam and how high the drones hit.

Gotta make sure you call drones late so you can still combo the Lk.
On big peeps like cable and sent you can let the Hk hit once and still do LK ARS.

[Beeble]

d+Lk, Hk (hits twice), call drones on 2nd hit, lk ARS onto drones , gief still in air - Lk, land 360 grab or FAB, whatever.
Can do Lk mk lariat too depending on how close to the opp gief is after the slam and how high the drones hit.

Gotta make sure you call drones late so you can still combo the Lk.
On big peeps like cable and sent you can let the Hk hit once and still do LK ARS.

That's a nice little throw setup. Very nice.

[Augmint]

thanks - I don't use gief though - just messed about a bit in training mode.

[shoultzula]

if you do d+fp or any of other giefs moves that cross up, you can call your assist before or after the xup and lariat back to the original side. Its a double cross up. and you can even aim the lariat to hit xup too so it becomes double crossup both sides. This trick actually becomes quite useful when you use it after his upchuck(dwn, dwnbck, back+lp) or after FS.

c.fp does have pretty good priority. Above average from my exp with him but his FS is horrible. He's just too damn fat. Its a good idea to end all air combos with neutral fp or a lariat. Neutral fp causes no FS dash after an AC gief even gets to land front or back side depending on the range you are at. Once they wake up, use the double xup trick with tron and go get em.:rofl:

gief\tron:

c.lk+tron, c.mk, srk+lk cancel. from here, you can do a few things.

1. you can overhead because tron rings will still be pinning.
2. wiff overhead, 360 or up chuck. dwn, dwnbck, back+lp? its been a while.
3. once your able to work your overheads, you will force the opponent to stand and block. When that happens, you can actually 360 that guy coming down from the srk+lk.
4. If they manage to block all of this, gief will land in time to relayer off of the 3rd tron ring. You can do c.lk tick 360 or tick up chuck.

I never really mastered gief but by doing this as your staple point of your offense, it would be very hard to stop. Its a high hit or untechable throw w\in a span of a few frames.

iirc, c.rh+tron, srk+lk, fall lp\lk, land, TK 360. Even for assist punishment, c.rh+tron, srk+k will do the damage and allow gief to do something.

theres a basic combo that does like 95% life, I think its like c.lk+tron, c.mk, srk+lk, fall fp\rh, land then lariat, 360PP. I think that was it.

giefs up chuck move, dwn, dwnbck, bck+p, sets up his crazy resets. iirc, if you're out of range for this move and you do it, its just a LP. It only works when you are in the proper range.

after up chuck, you can do something like, jupfwd, d+fp+tron for crossup, if it gets blocked lariat back to the original side and try to get a hit.

after certain AA's. Gief can follow that AA hit up with a srk+k depending on the angle. Theres one angle during giefs srk+K thats has super priority on it. iirc, after the air throw hits, can't you OTG if they don't roll it?

[Augmint]

Theres one angle during giefs srk+K thats has super priority on it. iirc, after the air throw hits, can't you OTG if they don't roll it?

Can't otg after his airthrow - as he tosses them down he stays in the air for a bit and he has nothing to hit them while he's still in the air (Knee won't hit otg, elbow drop is too slow).

Adding more...
gief can actually sj cancel from the first hit of his s Hk - hard to get sj Lk after.

After gief's qcb + Lp throw he can call drones and j hp throw behind him onto drones.

Also if gief hits a standing person with his jumping P lariat he can can combo j Lk, mk lariat to follow up, then quick airthrow. On people like cyke he can do j Lariat into s Hk.


Also mecha gief has a lariat super f,df,d,u +2K ( I think)
can do his flame xx cancel into the lariat super (have to be close, and cancel after the 2nd/3rd hit of flame) Fat chance of landing it but.

[xxphilopiaxx]

Short 'gief vid I made. Inspired by this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L40NezpLIoc

[xxphilopiaxx]

Eh...i this combo while messing around with gief, but for some reason I couldnt duplicate it for the video. Anyway, there it is.

qcb + lp, at the last possible second call tron and walk under the opponent, hold back (away from opponent), opponent gets hit by 2 trons rings, qcb + lp, whiff fp banishing fist xx (U)FAB.

why it works: even though tron's assit hits 3 times. There is a slight delay between the 2nd and 3rd right. The first 2 rings push the opponent away from tron and by you walking back it allows the opponent to be pushed way even more, instead of trapping them between gief and tron. timing is the biggest issue, though.

[foxtrot]

About changing Zangief into mech mode, and then switching out at the start... Wouldn't this be safe if you were starting out against Magneto?
Against Mech Zangief, Magneto isn't able to pull his infinites, and pretty much has to run away and build meter, and then when he's in the air you can just pull a normal character switch and hope he doesn't land fast enough.
Against storm, you can just turn into Mech Zangief and swap out normally when shes charging in the air.
I just think starting out with Zangief and swapping out starting vs Cable would be a bad idea. Same with Sentinel, but not as bad as with cable.

[eczangief]

Been fooling with Gief/Spiral (Proj.) for awhile, and I found a pretty cool tag-out combo. With Gief in close, call Spiral, normal jump to cross them up, then throw them away from you. As they land on the knives, switch characters.

The cross up part can be jump over Splash then Throw, early LK (hits on the way up, Gief continues to jump over) then Throw, or empty jump over then Throw. You want to time the assist call so that they land pretty high in the knives. Not too groundbreaking and from a risk/reward standpoint its not great, but useful at times. Nice in that it makes a non-teched throw a one hit-kill opportunity (Mag, Cable, Iron Guy etc.)

IMO Spiral Proj. really helps Gief if you can read your opponent's assists. Spiral + HK ARS is great for getting in after a baited AA, and is a scary move to deal with if you've just snapped them out or killed a character. It's nice because even if your jump in with Gief gets countered, they've still got knives in their face. Right now setting up this move is the staple of my offense, but it's maad predictable. I try to intelligently set this up and use it sparingly, but honestly when I'm not going for this at every opportunity, I'm getting rushed. And Gief on the run is ugly, he doesn't even have a back dash.

My recurring thought on Gief is that there's so much damage potential there, he's just not mobile enough to take advantage of it.

[eczangief]

Mag (projectile) Mix-up

There's also a nice mix-up when crossing up with HP Splash and Magneto's Proj. Assist. You can actually control which side they land on after getting hit by Mags.

Ex: Call Magneto, Gief jumps from left to right to cross up with db+Hp, landing on the right side, then ....

Hold Away (walk backwards) to keep them on the left, or

Hold Down (duck) and they'll flip over you and land to your right.

With the second option, on smaller characters you can actually hold Towards (maybe even Neutral, I forget), but with Sentinel/Blackheart-type characters you've got to duck or they'll get hung up on Gief's sprite.

While they're being flipped from the Magneto hit you can whiff a LP, or LK then SPD right when they recover, or whiffed hit QCB + LP, or try another x-up.

__________________________________________________

Random GIEFness


QCB + LP plus Psylocke AA or Cyke AA (probably a few others) combos from the upchuck. With Psylocke, they're in dead state, so you can OTG then air combo, HK xx DP + LK, or jump LK, LK, SPD. With Cyke they get carried away from you so you have to HK ARS to rush down.


Doom has a couple sneaky ways to DHC to FAB.

-- from a SJ HCB + PP that misses. Which is a pretty obvious one.

-- from a QCF + PP that connects or is blocked. During Doom's super the character is being jolted left and right in the blast; you have to DHC to the Buster as they are going away from you. When you do it right they are propelled right into the grab. I've had it work doing Dooms Plasma super with the enemy grounded and also by catching them jumping in. Cool because its free chip + FAB. Storm/ Doom/ Gief is fun as a result.

Speaking of Storm-- most (if not all) of the Fly Screen combos with Gief/Spiral (Proj) will work with Storm (Proj). Which is good because a DHC to Hail Storm from the Buster makes the FAB worth doing from a damage output standpoint.

[elffzero]

I'm bored, I might as well chime in with a few zangief nuggets I've been playing around with. Some Gief + Thanos low tier ownage:

Zangief on point w/ Thanos capture assist:
Cross up Body Splash(D+P),lk,hk(2 hits, call thanos after 2nd hit) x dp+lk (they get tossed into bubble) D+P (body splash on the way down from the ARS), c.lp,c.mp sj.lk,sj.mk -> SPD. Thats 100%+ on standard defense characters.

Amusing use for Zangiefs Air throw type assist with Thanos on point:

fp+assist xx power ball. Thano's fp sends them flying just a bit and the super freeze actually helps the timing allowing zangief to throw them directly in the super for hefty damage. By itself it's very amusing but if you've got 2 more supers saved it gets fun.

fp + assist xx qcf+pp, qcf+pp (blocked), assist, qcf+pp. with tight timing they have no choice but to block the second powerball super and since you've ended the combo you can call geif back out and he will grab them after they finish blocking and throw them into the 3rd super pretty much killing anybody.

I haven't been to an arcade in years so I'll let you folks have fun with that =)

[eczangief]

Gief/Jugg (Body Splash assist thing):

dLK, dLP, sjHK, Jugg Hits, sjHK :

Hits for half life on anything that moves, more if Jugg is glitched. There might be a LP/LK before the first sjHK-- i can't remember. Causes forced dash on Gief though which is punishable, so if it's not going to kill skip the last sjHK and hit sjLK or sjLP xx SPD on the way down.

*edit* if you do neutral sj.HP as your finishing hit, you don't get forced dash, plus you are in a perfect position to x-up/50-50/wake-up SPD, whatever.

Good corner options for both Gief/Jugg and Jugg/Gief, which is fun.

Gief/Jugg:

dLP+Jugg, dLP, Jugg Hits, dfHp launcher, ...

... sjLK, sjLK, Lariat/360
... sjLK, sjLK, Air Throw (hold neutral to land same side, towards corner to xup most characters)

[eczangief]

Theres a really OG Super Turbo trick that helps out Gief in Marvel, I totally forgot about it.

By negative-edging your SPDs and doing the 360 motion so that you end up at Away or Up-Away you can ensure that if you botch the input you won't get a whiffed normal. Also, if you miss the 360s directional input you wind up at block or jump block. Just a minor beef up for his wake-up and counter Piledriver game, but when a whiff means game over etc etc.

Also, regarding SPDs can anyone confirm that you control the direction Gief SPDs them in by finishing the motion at either a towards position or an away? I'm still not 100% on that, but it does seem that most of the time I spin it f, df, d, db, b, f I get a forward momentum SPD and vice versa with the opposite input.

[eczangief]

Gief Special and Super Frame Data

borrowed from Joo's site:
commas = separation of LP/LK and HP/HK versions of moves if they differ.


PP Lariat: 4

KK Lariat: 4

Aerial Russian Slam: 17, 30

Screw Pile Driver (ground): 4
(air): 9

Flying Power Bomb: 7

Banishing Flat: 12

Vodka Fire: 21

Dash Grab: 10

Air Throw: 1

FAB: 5+0

Ultimate FAB: 4+0

Siberian Blast: 6+0

Lariat Super: 3+0


I didn't realize the Lariat Super was only ~3 frames of start-up.

[ffoxxttrott]

A not-very-useful thingy for when you swap in Cable, and you happen to hit the opponent and send them swirling in the air. (Kind of rare to hit.. but it does happen.)

In corner:
cr.lk when they hit ground from swirling in air, cr.lp, call Zangief assist, walk backwards for AHVB space, and then AHVB.



Not in corner (I know you can just go straight into AHVB for when they're not in a corner, but this could get a tiny bit extra damage...)

dash in when control returns to Cable, cr.lk when they hit ground from swirling in air, cr.lp, call Zangief assist, AHVB.

This is probably pretty useless though because I'm pretty sure they can roll out of their fall, and avoid the cr.lk...

Video Demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEEL51CTE6M

[eczangief]

^^

Pretty cool. Gief Lariat assist is pretty easy for anybody to work with-- it locks them in for long enough for anybody to grab free supers. Julian Robinson (?) used this way back, and kinda like in your vid, he only used Gief from what I could tell for his scrubby assist properties. If you're looking for that, I'd just go with Akuma Expansion, it's just as fast or maybe moreso, aaand you get horizontal movement.

A halfway decent Cable/Sent or Cable/Storm can run any assist that stuns them for a bit or any Anti-air and beast up pretty easy if you're smart with your assist calls.


---------------------------

Random unrelated Gief Dash-Grab trick...

Since the command dash-grab has a noticeable lag between the point when you start dashing and the point when you can grab them, it's not always the best move when you use it as is. But, since it has the properties of a dash, you can cancel it out at any point. A useful trick that takes advantage of this is to cancel the dash into a 360 or an Up-Chuck.

If Gief's dash was instant, this would have disgusting potential, but for whatever reason they thought that it would make Zandon't-Even-Get-To-Move-Around-In-This-Gamegief too broken if he had fast start-up up for his incredibly slooow dash that he can't even Wave-dash with:arazz:.


"Gief has that Lariat thing for PP, so lets give him a F,F dash-grab instead."
"Ya!"
"Well. It's a grab, so we've got to slow it down or it'd be too cheap."
"Yea. Let's give it slow start-up too just to be safe."
"Maybe we should give him a jet-pack..."
"Too late for that, the game ships tomorrow and my acid's starting to kick in."
"Okay. Well let's break Sentinel a little more."

Capcom playtested this game during a week-long drug frenzy.

[ffoxxttrott]

I like Gief better because he has those semi-tank qualities and tends to force a low block among other things... And he pretty much stops rushdown when used as an assist. Akuma is just too good at dying fast.

And also the mech gief option is great too.

[eczangief]

Heh, ya that's true about the vitality. Cable/Gief is nasty. I like Gief on point too much though, and Gief/Cable AA doesn't do anything for me. Grenades or Proj. is better, but awkward when it comes to interacting with whoever is your third character. Thing with Gief is, you don't necessarily need any old AA as much as you need an assist that lets you gain ground on them. IIRC Cable AA knocks them too far away for you to close the gap.

IIRC Cyke is good. Forward moving AA that doesn't knock them too far away. You can UpChuck them into Cyke AA.

Psylocke is actually really good. Quick and you can set-up j.LK, j.LK, air SPD off of it. IIRC you can Upchuck into it as well. Works the other way too bc Psy gets rejump combos off of Lariat assist and Psy can qcfPP xx FAB DHC.

Doom is good for obvious reasons.

Storm vertical Typhoon or Blackheart AA bc it locks them in place for a bit.


From a lot of angles though Cable still better because what you lose in team chemistry hijinks you get back with AHVB etcetc.

[ffoxxttrott]

Haha, I'm one of those people who would rather never have Gief snapped in... but I think I've played on point with him enough to be able to hold an okay ground as long as its not against storm.

I think that assist that helps gief get close to the enemy is Sentinel with the gamma assist. Kind of makes up for the projectiles and distance that Gief lacks. One of my fave teams is Cable/Sent/Gief.




What do you think about Mech Gief as an assist? I used to like to change him to mech when he gets put in on point, but lately I feel like he takes too much damage when he can't get knocked out of the lariat (especially from hail storm)

[eczangief]

Yes, versus Storm, Gief doesn't want to be on point at all. That's a counter pick scenario right there; if you want to run Gief versus a Storm team, you've got to set up a team that lets him DHC in and out safe. Unfortunately, every major team has Storm, so its def. an uphill battle. Gief/Storm/Sent can run with anything though, in any character order.

Zangief can run even with any of the tops, except Storm, her runaway game versus Gief's inability to gain ground is a pointless fight-- she wins it easy every time. Best bet is to get bar and DHC in.

Versus Mag, Gief has an easier read, he knows its RTSD time, so you can block and guard cancel into SPD, or wakeup SPD, block into an assist pin setup with a SPD chance.

Versus Cable, same as anybody else, you're just not allowed to make any mistakes when you're on his horizontal, but he can't chip you to death like Storm.

Versus Sent., he can chip you but that's all his bar, so it's no problem to sit and block. Sent's so big that you can air SPD right through a lot of jumping normals, and just generally grab too much random stuff to even understand. Classic big character piledriver vacuum action.

I like Mag/Gief/Tron to start with, and if that gets shut down, you can counter pick a Storm or Cable or Sent depending on what you're up against.

Mech Gief is fun sometimes. Kill a character in the corner, then Mech-up and layer a Tron plus LK Aerial Russian Slam. Right there Gief's in prime position for his SPD/mixup game. IIRC Gief is not push-blockable because the ARS is basically an empty jump, so if they PB Tron, its land, tick, SPD. Standing LP is god-like as far as a jump-check, jumping LK too. Metal Gief is only worth it when you have another character that wants him as an assist though.


You've got to want him to get on point though-- he's not that good an assist to warrant having him as an assist only character. IMO he's got far more damage potential than CapCom or Psylocke. I'd even place Tron ahead of both of them-- bitch is too good, but harrrd to use right. Gief's the same way, he rapes anybody that doesn't learn to just run away. (At which point he just gets wrecked-- but if you can force run-away at will, then you can work around that with the rest of your team).

[ffoxxttrott]

Gief on point seems to own Magneto pretty hard, especially when hes in mech form. Its nice to see when Mag cant do his infinite and rushdown =)

I love Gief as an assist though... Who else can you call in and just block off a chunk of the ground for several seconds! True... CapCom does block off a huge part of the ground and air, but he doesn't open up that AHVB option. In my experience and also in watching some Julian Robinson vids, it seems like people get caught by Gief assist quite often.


Do you know if people are able to roll out of that thing in the video by the way?

[eczangief]

^^^
Tron projectile? That's solid ground coverage, and stoopid damage to boot.

What thing/what video? Yours? set it on auto-roll.

[ffoxxttrott]

Did you play your Gief teams at Evo when you went? How did you do?


I'm planning to go to at least Evo West in 2008, just for fun, but I don't know if I'd fair too well with a Gief team. Even if Gief/Cable/(Storm,Sent) is my main team that I have the most fun with.

[eczangief]

I got killed.

At last Evo East though, I had only been playing the game seriously for a couple months. I didn't realize how nasty Marvel comp. got since I was first into the game way back. Really an eye-opener, I've just been x-copying Yipes attack patterns lately, lol. I've learned a shit-ton about the game engine and general improvements in strategy across the board since then, so I'm hoping to bring it in time for next Evo.

The low-tier dudes here on SRK post good shit-- you really have to know the game to make it with lows, so I learned almost everything just from that approach lately.

There's a Seattle Gief player named Brian who's pretty good who you can find on Preppy's site. Not afraid to run Gief versus tops at all. IMO he doesn't maximize Gief at all, but he's still a threat because he plays smart, and will get the wake-up piledriver at most opportunities.

I'm not even a Gief "player" really bc I'm not out there playing versus much comp-- just exploring what he can do on my own.

[ffoxxttrott]

Yeah thats true. Like Justin Wong running that completely low tier team Ruby Jill Ken... and he'd probably still smash most of the Marvel players out there. 6-10 on that match vs DarkPrince is very impressive to me... I think he actually took a lead at one point? Like if they played to 4 or 5, he would have won. :rofl:

[ffoxxttrott]

OoO I think I've come across a nice little Gief discovery... I'll let you guys know on Friday night when I have time to make a little video of it.

I guess its not too horribly exciting though. :wonder:

[eczangief]

Nah i know you just wanna spill the beams. Hit me up on AIM if you ever wanna talk Giefness.

[ffoxxttrott]

Haha, it's really not that exciting... it's really simple though, so I bet people know this already.

The thingy I "found" is that when you snap out an opponent, or when you kill a character and another character is about to jump in, you go to the edge of the screen (hard to get there with gief yeah =() and time an lp (or whatever attack will allow you to hit an opponent and land before they do) before the character appears on screen. If you time it right, you land right before they do and you poke their block, and then you go immediately into the triple team hyper combo (the one where you hit both assist buttons at one time), resulting in a 'guard break' because of the quick startup of Gief's super spinning lariat thing which hits them while they're still in normal jump animation. You may also end up crossing up the opponent at the same time when you land.




BTW: How do you set the dummy on auto block or roll or stuff like that?

[madmanwithhisfists]

That is a badass guard break when teamed up with hulk.

Also, to change dummy settings, you just go to the training menu, dummy settings, and then normal, and there will be a set of options there.

[ffoxxttrott]

I was playing around with Zangief on point with other assists for like... 6 hours in training mode yesterday, and I came out with a 100% combo with a DHC.



Start off with cross up with a jumping body splash, and call sent drones, Land, s.RH xx lk ARS (sent drones will hit around this time, sent drones had to be called before the crossup so that they come from the side of the screen that you're now facing. If sent drones come out on the side that your back is to, then the enemy will be able to block them after the s.RH) j.lk, j.PPLariat, land, FAB (because the lariat hit when you're both still in the air, they will fall straight down into an unavoidable FAB), then DHC into Sentinel qcf PP when the last hit of the of the FAB, before the last hit damage registers, and it will end up with the opponent going straight into the mouth orb of sent.

What you should end up with is a 8-9 hit combo finishing with an unavoidable FAB.

Without the DHC, it will leave the opponent with about 1/10 to 1/7 of a life bar left. If Sent mouth orb doesn't kill them, then DHC into the next character.

The most difficult part of this is just getting the sent drones to hit in time so that you can continue the combo with the j.lk.

Theres also a little mix-up game if you're ever able to trip the opponent or have them land somewhat close to you so you're in cross up range or s.RH range.


If s.RH hits, cancel into an lk ARS without calling an assist, and you'll slam them straight down into the ground again if they don't roll. At this point you can either cross them up with body splash and go into above combo, jump straight up and come down with the knee drop and go into another s.RH xx, or jump straight up and land with an lk trip and go into another s.RH xx.


By the way, I would have provided some clips but my expensive ass digital camera broke. Lame!

[eczangief]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO61Brr7maQ

this is pretty neat.

[ffoxxttrott]

Yeah I love me some mech gief assist too!


That assist call he does at about 1:30 when Bison jumps in is crazy useful... Just get to the edge of the screen, call Gief ground assist, and you have a great chance to cross them up especially with Storm (easy fake out), and then just go into a launcher magic lightning attack lightning storm for free.

[ffoxxttrott]

Alright boys, I finally got a video up for all you non believers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQc6sZa7WBo



Enjoy =)

[jaded]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO61Brr7maQ

this is pretty neat.

this is exactly why metal zangief is viable against top tier teams, but like someone said, it should be metal zangief.

this assist is amazing if you have Cable on point... no matter what assist they call or when they call it, cable gets ahvb x3 lol.

[BornAgainCommunist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO61Brr7maQ

this is pretty neat.

wow, thats looked better than jin's tornado. :hitit:

[shoultzula]

don't know if you've figured this out yet ecgief but you can do safe 360's in marvel just like in ST.

db+lp, 360 back to DB and hit P. If you fuck it up, its just a c.jab. If you time it right, its a 360.

Marvel 360 inputs are really easy to get in comparison to ST. There a bigger input window so take it for what its worth.

[copperbullet1]

Except it sure doesn't tick like you can in ST. Block stun lasts forever in this game

[shoultzula]

Except it sure doesn't tick like you can in ST. Block stun lasts forever in this game

you gotta chain cancel tick.

c.lp, c.fp, then hit them with a safe 360 attempt with the DB version. You cancel out before the c.fp fully animates.

[ffoxxttrott]

Correction:

- empty jump ins are your friend. If you do knees (d+lk) or flop or lariat while jumping, you don't get to do anything else until you land so be wary.

You can cancel the knees and flop into the lariat. But yes, the not being able to do anything else while in lariat is correct.

I've seen a couple match videos where Gief went into a flop really early and ended up landing straight into a snap out by Sentinel. If he went into lariat that wouldn't have happened!

[eczangief]

Gief needs a teleport.

Seriously though, I haven't been on here in awhile tell me something good I haven't picked gief in awhile either.

[ffoxxttrott]

Sorry buds... I don't got anything good, other than that Gief is able to fill about 2-3 meters in a single super jump, completely undisturbed with good timing of sj.rh xx spd's over and over. This is old news, but I was pretty surprised by how fast the meter got filled!

Another reason as to why Gief and Cable make a good team!

[eczangief]

This is a bunch of stuff i put up in a random thread a couple months ago. Not much gief lately so i'll lay it on you.

GIEF/MAG/TRON BEASTBUMLINESS: PART ONE: MANGUS


I think this is gonna be my signature Gief squad to contribute,

Gief(Ground)/Mag(Projectile)/Tron(Take a Wild Guess);

another possible one is Mag/Storm/Gief but thats just cuz i want to call it Team MSG.


I know Mag is top tier, but this is a GIEF team, also this is broken so...

I'm gonna go ahead and start with the dessert course:


TRIPLE OPTION X-UP

(with the same input)


Cross them up with a deep HP Splash, immediate Magnus call (piano key input HP, Mag), c.LK, c.LK (whiff) + Mag hits xx SPD. You suck them in like a vacuum cleaner.

Heres how the triple option works:

1: Do it exactly as above.
2. Do it like above, but change the timing for the last LK (possibly omit it entirely); they'll cross over b/c of Mag's beam, then you'll grab them on the other side.
3. Do it like above but do the 360 motion a bit slower (TK it); you'll TK SPD them.

WIN-WIN-WIN

^^^This is my jump-off point for this squad. You cross up with protection and healthy option tree, and you get a side switch which covers Mag a little.


X-UP to OVERHEAD MIXUP(S)

Cross up Splash, immediate Magnus, jump up-away LK overhead, (Mag hits)...


... whiff c.LK xx SPD
... dash grab (F,F).

You probably want HK grab. HP if you want to run away or stage an assist-covered HK Aerial Russian Slam. Alternatively, do the command dash but XX Upchuck riiight before it would grab. Proceed with the fun 'n games.

... Got Bar?? Skip the whiff c.LK and just FAB for more vacuumous release.
... Lariat xx FAB

--OR--

... Jump Straight up...

... do nothing. Empty jump, land, SPD

... j.LK overhead, land and duck. They cross over, you SPD.

... j.LK, land and stand. Same side SPD.

... j.LK xx Lariat, pick a side and drive it, tick throw.

I like that you get X-up attempt --> overhead attempt. Go low to make them guess.


WHIFF HK 360/UPCHUCK OPTION SELECT

Whiff HK is a good cross-up SPD trick. Here's a beefier one.

Cross up whiff HK, then do a 360 that ends with QCB+LP. You'll either get your SPD, your Upchuck, or a tick LP. Let the game pick.



...My take on GIEF/TRON next...
__________________


EPIC G/M/T BEASTBUMLINESS: PART TWO: ZAGNIEF/TRON


Core offensive deal is making the most of every x-up attempt and knowing what finishers will set you up in range for resets / overheads + Tron / instant SPDs.


BASIC X-Up plus TRON OPTIONS


Call Tron, Cross-up HP Splash...

... Land, c.LP, FP, dp+HP
... Land, c.LK, (c.LK), c.HK xx dp+LK, sets you up for another x-up or instant SPD.
... xx midair Lariat, land, j.LK, j.LK, (slight pause if you need to alter you're height), air SPD -or- land, SPD -or- Lariat.
... xx midair Lariat, land, HK xx DP+LK, Air Throw
... straight FAB, once you get the feel for getting it off of rings. Personally I'll take the other options over this all day tho, unless I want to get Gief out (DHC King Kobun or Shockwave). IMO much better trading less damage upfront for a shot at relayer pin or mix-up Driver.


That's a workable offense, if you can set it up. There's a couple riskier options: you can do the Dash Grab or the Running Bear Grab to catch them after the last Tron ring, but there's better ways to set those up...


DORK SUITS, STEALTH TACTICS, and SUBTERFUGE

--OR--

THE LOST ART OF THE GRAPPLER


I had a gripe with Capcom on nerfing Zangief for the longest time-- turns out I just didn't have a concrete enough understanding of the Marvel engine to level Gief up to my liking. Honestly, I think that with perhaps the exception of Hyper Fighting, Gief has never been deadlier. SJ SPDs??? Air Lariats??? Air Grab Special??? Dash Grab??? c'mon. A3 Variable Combo Gief never felt right anyway.

With all the depth of the Marvel experience, there's a TON of random situations that you can exploit Gief's strengths. The ability to read/manipulate blockstun factors in heavily to his Piledriver game-- you've got to know exactly when they're open to grab. Other than that there's plenty more goofy set-ups that lead to big DMG.

Here's some I don't mind sharing:


SIDE-SWITCH TRON X-UP:

There's a way to time the Tron call following the x-up Splash so that they get blown through you. IIRC it works when you call Tron just as you hit an early x-up Splash. I'll double check the timing later on and update if the description is off.

Once you get the assist call timing, there's some follow-ups. Blow-thru Tron x-up...

... KK Lariat, SPD. iirc a Tron ring counts as your tick hit.
... overhead j.LK, (scores you an extra ring's worth of Tron damage), followup.


UPPER TRON X-UP: WITH BENEFITS

cross-up Splash, slight pause, Lariat, land, j.LK, j.LK, land, Dash Grab, call Tron right before you grab (f,f, then double tap assist works)...

... pick a grab or throw to do from Dash Grab -or-
... do nothing, you drop them, last ring in their face (tick hit), SPD
... Running Bear Grab
... j.LK overhead, follow up Lariat or j.HK overhead

Those are the basic possibilities. I like that late Tron ring to help reset your offense.


THEY BLOCKED MY JUMP-IN... NOW WHAT?

Blocked jump-in Splash, Dash Grab...

... if they push-block, cancel dash to block or dp+LK/HK
... if not, either connect the Dash Grab -or-
... cancel it into SPD or Upchuck


WHIFF HK X-UP INSTANT TRON PIN

Jump, Call Tron, Whiff HK x-up, land, immediate Upchuck, Tron pops them out low...

... instant SPD, although you could tick hit, SPD too
... Running Bear Grab
... Dash Grab
... Straight Grab/Throw
... j.LK instant overhead plus Tron residue, land with SPD position advantage

There's a couple of ways Tron could come out. IIRC a Late call will put Gief and Tron on the same side. If that's the case all the above set-ups will connect. An Early call is better though b/c it makes a Tron/Gief sandwich. From the sandwich pin you get a guaranteed x-up chance.

For some reason I didn't try to FAB from this last set-up. Should work though.

EDIT: Cable hit box (and some other shorter characters im sure) has bad overlap for this Tron Pin set-up. Minor drag.


ZANGIEF!!!
__________________


Anybody got some other oddball Gief squads? opening moves?

[ffoxxttrott]

I never use Tron or Mag (I'll start trying out Mag sometime soon though) so I can't really relate to a lot of the information that you put in, though I bet it would be more helpful to me if I knew how to play a Mag/Tron/Gief team! :rofl:
But also, those options for blocked jump ins are really nice! =) Especially the dash grab.


Okay, so lately I've been playing around a lot with Gief's Air Lariat, which as you mentioned, is a really good move. I use it as a quick defensive move when I'm building bar with Gief, when someone tries to jump up and hit him, and it also adds a little mobility (directing the air lariat to go to the left or right). If it hits the opponent on the way down, it leads into an unavoidable FAB (unless you hit the person when you're both really high in the air).

So the interesting things I found with this:

-If you do the Air Lariat before the peak of your super jump, and the opponent is in a defensive crouch, and you land on top of them, your Lariat will NOT connect at all. You can go straight into a normal throw or SPD if you land near them, but they can do the same to you.

-If you do the Air Lariat at the very peak of your super jump, and the opponent is in a defensive crouch, and you land on top of them, your Lariat WILL connect with the opponent. (However, you have to land on the same side that you started the lariat from).

-It IS possible to hit them with a cross up air lariat. The timing for this is really weird and/or meticulous, I think he has to hit them on a very specific part of the animation. This could lead to a weird mix-up game where neither you nor your opponent knows what will happen. (Though I'm sure people could work to get the exact timing right, and throw it off a little to mix it up)

-This stuff only works on taller characters, namely Cable, Sentinel, Dr. Doom, Black Heart.

=And for the clincher... the Air Lariat can be blocked both low AND high. WTF? This must be the only jumping attack that you can block crouching. Pretty much eliminates all use for this except for the cross up lariat, or tricking people into thinking you're going to go for the cross up but just do a splash or knees instead.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mlEDIr6mUo
Here is a video presenting the following:

1. Inability for the Lariat to hit before reaching peak.
2. Lariat hitting after reaching peak.
3. Cross-up Lariat attempts.
4. Cross-up Lariat success.
5. Combos to follow up with after hitting someone with an air lariat while they're on the ground.


These really show how important his air lariat really is... helps his mobility a lot and adds some mixup offense options.

I hope my findings are at least semi-novel...

[eczangief]

Trickery at 0:20 is getting it done. Awesome.

Regarding the 'autoblock' high or low on air Lariat-- its because its a Special move so not technically a regular limb attack. AFAIK you can block all (air) specials either high or low. So a lot of overhead-type moves are deceiving because they look like they should be deadly, but are pretty much autoblock ie Psylocke's Hidden Kick, Charlie's Banana Kick, and Akuma's dive kick.

For the longest time when I first picked up Gief I was doing sj. immediate d.LP elbow drop expecting to get a quick overhead into Tron because I didn't understand what was going on in terms of game engine workings.

IMO jumping lariat and 'tiger kneed' shallow sj lariats are still useful because its Giefs equivalent of tri-jump pressure. Ya its not gonna hit, but it lets you get a fairly quick jump check that creates block stun if they stay grounded. It's then a matter of managing your assists to maximize your chances for damage.

[eczangief]

heres something for air lariat

corner:

(they block) jump-in HP plus Tron, land c.LP, tron rings, TK Lariat (d,u,d KK), land immediate SPD.

you probably don't need that second down input to TK lariats but i do it anyway-- helps me with the timing or something. You can also set this situation up anywhere on the screen if you set up a crossup Tron pin aka Sandwich Pin.

this setup does crazy damage if you connect your x-up or jump-in, or on block it gets you some positive stun to work with and a shot at an SPD.

IMO you should always do the KK version of the air lariat bc PP leaves you open for a very long time if you do it late and get the ground version

[ffoxxttrott]

IMO you should always do the KK version of the air lariat bc PP leaves you open for a very long time if you do it late and get the ground version


That's actually a really good idea! I find myself stuck on ground lariats occasionally because I don't use the KK lariats, but I'll use the KK from now on.





What's your take on the glowing fist move? I see the Brian dude use it a whole bunch but it seems to just leave him wide open all the time. The only use I see it doing is crossing up after they're knocked into the air, and then canceling to a FAB or relaunching and crossing again or something.



Uhg I accidentally turned off my DC while it was accessing the memory card AGAIN! Second time within the past two months. Now I get to spend time unlocking everything again instead of playing around in training mode...

[eczangief]

A lot of times, glowing fist or Banishing Flat is a good alternative to the dash. Its basically the inverse of the dash in terms or when your vulnerable. Say you do the f,f ground dash-- you don't actually get forward movement immediately, instead theres a delay, then the dash. Using whiffed BF instead of a dash is a good way to close the gap a bit quicker. Downside is you have a slight delay after after the move. I'd say I use the glowing fist move to dash about 80% of the time i want to move forward in a hurry. The only time i really use the true dash for moving is to dash in xx SPD or upchuck to get into range.

Offensively i'll use glowing fist to cause some block stun backed by tron, then go into some kind of a mixup. ex: lp,tron,lp xx BF... then you have a few options.

IMO banishing flat is primarily a movement tool because if youre close enough to BF, then youre close enough to set up a piledriver. Actually a good use of the BF is to whiff xx SPD when you've called a slow moving projectile assist like drones or spiral's knives because even if they call you and counterattack, there's a good chance that you're going to trade hits into a position where you can still try for a high damage setup.

I run antics like that a lot with Gief/Spiral/Tron. From full screen i'll test the waters and just call Spiral proj. and do a HK Aerial RS. Its a ghetto rushdown pattern because even if they counter attack, those knives are still onscreen to keep you from getting to beat up. You can block soon after the move so its relatively safe and you always have the option to bait a response and just do the LK version plus knives and see what they do with it. Far and away the best time to do this is on incoming characters or people landing from a super-jump. Its obviously not cable friendly but theres not much that is.

Gief/Spiral has other stupid options with ARS. Do a deep jump-in attack, sHK plus Spiral xxLK ARS, you airthrow, they get thrown into the knives and you can rejump combo, or they land and wake up into knives giving you a chance to mix them up on wakeup. It depends on the timing of your assist call. Anywhere on screen, you can sHK+spiral xx LK ARS, land, (knives hit), jump, HP air throw. If you're watching for that Tech-hit IIRC you can still land into a Tron pin or recall Spiral assist.

edit: come to think of it, Gief/Spiral can use glowing fist a bit easier bc you have the option to call Spiral and cause some block stun xx Glowing fist, and knives can cover your recovery.

[eczangief]

don't know if you've figured this out yet ecgief but you can do safe 360's in marvel just like in ST.

db+lp, 360 back to DB and hit P. If you fuck it up, its just a c.jab. If you time it right, its a 360.

Marvel 360 inputs are really easy to get in comparison to ST. There a bigger input window so take it for what its worth.


I didn't see post this for whatever reason. I had a revelation when i remembered to play Gief old school-- Marvel was too hectic that i didn't even consider it at first.

All kindsof room for error with his Upchuck command fitting inside of 360. LP and hold, 360 to back, release LP-- its two tricks in one.

I can't even post some Marvel-specific Gief input tricks i have though. Respectfully, they're too damn good. :wgrin:

[eczangief]

Mech Gief is the truth! (thanks FoxxTrott)

KK Lariat stops most projectiles, most normals, Rocket punch, and he doesn't get stuck in infinites. He is your counter to magneto for sure. Problems are with AHVB and Hailstorm, w/ hail being the scarier of the two, wondering what kinda options you have there. Maybe you can do vertical Lariat super to cancel some hits?

Things to remember-- he has no air lariat, which is bad, bad news-- if he had that kind of huge hit-zone on both sides of him he be would be broken as fuck midair versus anything. This means you have to play angles smart and use invincible lights to stuff Sent/Storm. Elbow drop gets decent with armor.
ARS is nerfed, but is nigh unstoppable in the corner with Tron assist or anything that pins. For midscreen stuff, read a safe call on tron or a projectile, and jump forward FP xN. Remember you can empty jump just as effectively and look for a pushbock attempt and land, SPD.

Its pretty easy to reflexively block, but it does you nothing, the equivalent of block for mech gief is to counter hit them out of everything. Beam supers, and multi-hit supers seem to stall your counter hits for longer and longer relative to the number of hits, so sometimes its safer to SJ out of/ in anticipation of certain moves.

BF is gone (replaced with vodka fire). Shame that would've had beast invulnerability. VF is crouchable so when in close, cr.LK xx VF or dump an assist, VF to make them take the hits. It's decent chip but the lag is punishable unless you set it up with Doom. Lock-down gief is something thats always been at the back of my mind (crazy enough to work) and IMO he needs that kind of a secondary option to be able to pull the match approach "mixups" that a versatile character can to really dominate.

Smart gief, i.e. is patient and can block, can build enough meter to be able to Mech/un-Mech in the course of a match where its worth the meter and worth the risk-reward based on the current point you're up against. Mech-Gief has clear advantage over Magneto and has the tools to give Sent trouble.

Some gief things that get even better with MEch mode--

Versus Jugg gief can FAB or SPD to grab him out of HCrush. Timing is probably tight, but i've seen it happen too many times by accident for me to think of it being very hard.

Uhh thats actually all i got-- Disappearing for a couple weeks, hope to see some metallic justice done to gief.

[ffoxxttrott]

Haha Mech Gief does rock the socks.

Definitely dangerous versus Storm and Cable though.

With Storm, if she hail storms, you can tag out easy during the hail animation, and you even have time to tag out before hand. Best is during the animation because Gief doesn't take all of the damage, and the person who gets tagged in doesn't take too much damage. It's an easy safe tag in, trading for a little bit of damage. Also, you have enough time to change back to normal Gief and then start blocking by the time the hail actually starts. Even if the hail does start before you transform, you can still block in normal form, even though you took some hits in mech form.

Versus Cable you definitely don't want to have Gief in at all, which is fine because Cable can't snap in too easily anyway. Theoretically, Gief can jump out of the AHVB, but it hits too fast and leaves him stuck for forever. If you eat just two AHVB's with Mech Gief then you're pretty much screwed because his hitbox is so huge and he can't move much. I might play around with the Vodka Fire thing to see if that opens up any options. Best thing to do here is also tag out and hope the person who tags in gets hit in a position so that he'll only take one AHVB, or even bounce out and start blocking (which is what happens most of the time I think).

Also, be careful when hitting a blocking opponent with Mech Gief assist called out, because then he's free game for the person to assist counter into Cable and own Gief with the AHVB.

And yes, as ECZangief mentioned, Super Jumping is Mech Gief's best friend, except for against Storm.

[ffoxxttrott]

Gief Strats Against Magneto:

-Turn into Mech Gief

Mech Gief Strats Against Magneto:

-This is a really easy fight... all Magneto can really do is run away.

-When fighting Magneto, stay low to the ground. Try to avoid Super Jumping. This is because once you Super Jump, it's a free tag in for the opponent. If not that', it's a free DHC into Hail Storm.

-Normal jumping at Magneto with forward attacks is great, while spamming Sentinel's drone assist. Your assist is safely behind you. Keeps Magneto locked down for the most part, and does chip damage.

-When you get close enough, mix-up with delayed knees. If you delay the knees to be really close to the ground, it's unpredictable if it will come out as an overhead or a trip (He makes a sound when he does the knees, but not the trip. The sound will come out for the trip if you delay the knees enough.). In either case, it's a great mix-up game. If you manage to trick him, either the Sent Drones will hit, or you can launch them into an air combo. Try not to end the air combo with a HP or HK. This is because if you do, then you knock them into the next screen, and then Gief is stuck slowly dashing back into the screen. Leaves the opponent with a free hit/dhc/tag in. Also, if the opponent dashes back, then Gief is stuck in slow dash until he catches up to them. Only end with HP or HK when they're close to a corner.

-Magneto will likely try to tag out, or else get owned. Main thing to watch for is Magnetic Tempest. If he's just at one meter, you can super jump to avoid damage, and likely land in time to catch any tag ins. If he has more than one meter, look at the situation.

-Impending DHC to HailStorm? Tag out and hope you'll be able to block, or just stay on the ground, and endure the slight damage, then tag out during the hail storm. It's usually worth it to give damage to Gief and have him chill as an assist while he heals a little.

-Impending DHC to Sentinel Force? Super Jump and whiff SPDs to build meter/float.

-Impending DHC to Sentinel Force and then HailStorm? Your call.

Those seem to be the main things to worry about.

If they recklessly tag in to save Magneto, you can punish with FAB DHC'd into someone else, or just tag in your own character if you're fast enough on reaction.

[ffoxxttrott]

I've got some (mildly) good stuff stewin' with Mech Gief... stick around.


EDIT: Scratch that. I've got some freaking insane crap to share. Videos will be made.

[ffoxxttrott]

Here it is! (Especially for ECZangief when he gets back)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67TlgLvNvp4

[eczangief]

Excellence! Great rundown on mechness Foxx. Lots of things to ponder. That Sent Orb dhc is gnarly. Doom qcf+PP is similar but a lot harder bc of the wonky momentom, so this is really rad.

Re: ending sj air combos, use neutral HP and it sets you up to land close w/o the forced dash. clap

[ffoxxttrott]

Yay! Glad you liked it!


I meant to do a write up along with the video, explaining a little more in depth about the things presented (there's a few more perks associated with the dash mode, tagging in vs Storm, and Hyper Sentinel Force punishing), but I haven't been able to do that yet. I'll probably do that this weekend though.

[eczangief]

dash-mode is disgustingly stoopid. who wouldve thunk... good find-- i'd like to know more about it when you do get around to it, but i'll tool around with it. really bizarre glitch. maybe somebody on the dev team liked gief.:looney:

[ffoxxttrott]

I have a feeling that normal Gief might also have a command dash... If you jump straight up and down, and push PP around the time when he lands and jumps, if you time it really well, then you can hear the dash sound come out, but it cancels straight into the jump. It's probably impossible to access though unfortunately =( I've tried for a while. It's not super important for normal Gief though, since he has the ARS for movement.


Here's all I know about dash mode:

-Activated by performing any normal attack while you're going upwards. Can be a super jump, or normal jump.

-When trying to advance on an opponent as Mech Gief, the best option would be to do a forward normal jump with an attack while going upwards, and then when you land, you can start dashing and forward jumping to cover a lot more ground. Or maybe even manual dash the first one, and come out in a rising normal attack, and then the next time you land you can start command dashing.

-Mech Gief covering a whole screen in two jumps... scary.

-During Mech Gief's dash, and also dashing forward jump, he will keep all forward momentum. This means that nothing can slow him down pretty much. If a projectile hits him, it will push him back, but he will retain all speed.

-If he's hit by a projectile while dashing, just go into a forward jump and he'll keep all the forward momentum. I really liked this; tends to surprise the enemy because normally when characters are hit in a dash, they get stopped.

-I'm pretty sure performing most attacks on the ground will take you out of dash mode. Good way to get out of dash mode in case some sent drones are sent at you or something would be to kara cancel into Lariat. Or if you're quick enough, just do a KK lariat.

-You can easily wave-dash... There's not really much use of this though because the dashing forward jump is way faster.

-Pretty much makes a dash grab way way easier after an empty jump in.

I'll edit this post if I remember anything else... but I'm pretty sure that's it.

[eczangief]

^^

Mech Gief is officially a beast. Dojo time, I'll post up what I can find.

Random other Dash Glitch ish:

Pros:
-Gief keeps the glitch when he switches out. And he can do any of his specials, he can snap, and do any of his grabs and he still gets dash mode.

-You don't have to whiff a normal to get the glitch all of the time (which is how I originally thought it worked, sounds like Foxx had this fig'd out already). You can also get it by way of a non-combo hit so you can set it up with a jumping up tick hit, x-up plus tron jump away LK to add another layer to that bread and butter mixup stew, and also set it up with a guard break situation in the corner.

Cons: For whatever reason, both PP and KK Lariat has trouble coming out while glitched-- i.e. it doesn't work. You can get around this by doing a fast normal then instant cancel into Lariat, but you will lose dash mode. Just something to keep in mind, bc the command for lariat changes loosely to normal xx PP/KK in this mode.

Foxx, how do you get the glitch from a SJ?

[ffoxxttrott]

Oh oops... I made the last post off the top of my head while I was at work, so a few minor things might be incorrect (such as being able to just do KK Lariat while on the ground while in dash mode.

lk xx Lariat seems to come out quite fast though.



And for the SJ thing... I could have sworn that when I do super jumps with HP going up, that I had dash mode when I landed. I could be wrong though. I'll get back to you on that when I get home though.



Yeah.. Mech Gief is pretty pwnage. He shuts down both Magneto and Trap Teams... great defense against rushdown... Move him up a tier or 3 on the tier list plz!

[eczangief]

^^

Hmm, I don't think you can even do KK lariats in dash mode either, which is bizarre.

I also tried switching to reg. Gief with the glitch to see if it carried over, but no dice. Weird glitch -- I can't think of any reason why it gives you the wave dash only when you do an attack specifically during the ascending portion of your jump.

Too weird. I'm wondering if any other character can screw with dashing properties...

edit:

Ya you're right about SJ working as well-- i was doing an attack on the way down or something and cancelling it.

[ffoxxttrott]

My guess which is probably about as good as any other guess, would be that they didn't take out the command dash buttons for him (obviously), and just slapped the Lariat command on top of it (Especially apparent when you can hear Normal Gief's dash come out when pushing PP). Being Mech maybe slows down how fast the Lariat comes out, and yeah... don't know where I'm going with this haha.

[ffoxxttrott]

Here's the rest of the write up with the video:

Mech Gief's greatest fear is Cable, and only Cable in my opinion. Against everyone else, it's easy to DHC out, or simply tag out, and build meter while waiting for the opportunity.

-Tagging in Mech Gief vs Storm (note: Not tagging in another character while Gief is on point against Storm):

Not the most useful thing in the world because it didn't work as well as I'd liked during the short time I tested it. But basically, if you see Storm begin her hail storm, you can tag in Gief. Gief has a greater chance of being able to punish her than anyone else. If he gets close enough, he may still be able to knock her out of the super even after taking a couple hits. However, often times the hail will begin before Gief can get close enough and he'll end up taking all the damage, and then Storm can just float away.

-Alpha Countering into Mech Gief Ground Assist:

Especially useful against Sentinel Hyper Force, depending on your character order you can alpha Counter Gief in, begin FAB, and then DHC out to Cable to punish Sentinel. This was kind of shown in the video, only without the alpha countering. This is kind of just a more guaranteed way of having Cable punish Sent Hyper Force, without having to risk the pushblock punish, or alpha counter Cable straight in and hope you can punish with a well timed AHVB. The downside is that Cable comes in doing the hyper viper beam on the ground.

-Sentinel Mouth Orb Sucking Property

Okay so I've been testing this out a lot in the past couple of days, and I'm going to come out and say that it is completely unavoidable and pretty much broke if you do it right.

The way I was doing it in the video, with Sentinel DHCing straight into Gief, is avoidable. If the opponent push blocks between the DHC, then they stay in pushblock animation when Gief tries to grab them... no good.

In order for it to be unavoidable, you need to have Sentinel on point, Cable as secondary character, and Zangief as third character.

*Catch the opponent at the middle-top edge of the Mouth Orb as seen in the 1st clip of the Sentinel Mouth Orb in the video (maybe a little lower) (it's also fine if you catch the opponent in the middle of the Orb, just wait until they get pushed towards the edge of it; it's just harder to time to get their momentum directed to the 'sucking property').

-If the opponent pushblocks BEFORE you DHC, then DHC into Cable anyway, and allow the opponent to fall into the beam (or catch them if you need to), then DHC into Zangief. The opponent will still have their momentum directed towards Zangief. They will not be able to attack or air dash out or anything.

-If the opponent pushblocks BETWEEN the DHC, then again allow them to fall (or catch them if you need to) into Cable's beam, and then DHC out to Gief. Their momentum will still be directed towards Zangief, and they won't be able to air dash out or anything.

-If the opponent does NOT pushblock (it'll be too late to pushblock if they don't do it between the DHC), then don't give them another chance to push block. DHC to Cable, and immediately DHC to Zangief before Cable's beam comes out. They will fall quickly into Zangief's grab before they can attack or air dash or anything.

You're eliminating their pushblocking opportunities, or catering to them so that they can still be sent flying into Gief before they can attack or air dash. In other words, you're keeping them in block stun until they hit the ground, and not allowing them to be in block stun when Gief is going to grab them.

This works with every character. The most difficult to get it to work on is Storm because she can control the speed at which she falls, which makes it tricky to catch her. Also, she needs to be caught really low in the Mouth Orb, because she can fall slower than everyone else. I'm not sure if Sentinel can fast fly out of this... probably not though.

Crazy useful... guaranteed damage against a super jumping opponent. The only downside is that it costs 3 whole meters. But hey, 3 meters for a large chunk of guaranteed damage, which ends with your battery character on point is pretty good.

[eczangief]

Thanks for the further breakdown. I'm not convinced its worth it for 3 meters, since there's some easy 2-meter stuff thats pretty near guaranteed. Maybe there's a failsafe way to get the mouth orb vacuum with 2 meters to be found... not sure.

The easiest 2 bar setup I use is with Magnus/Gief. From a launcher to air combo you just do Tempest xx FAB and they drop right into it. You want Tempest to wiff so don't even worry about doing Hyper Grav. AFAIK it's inescapable. It's bizarre-lookin-- the super flash from Tempest makes them drop very quick and FAB vacuum grabs. You can set up a similar situation by doing Tempest xx FAB from directly above a grounded opponent.

With Sent you can, IIRC, create a similar scenario with QCF+PP in the air, DHC to FAB. I seem to recall that working well when you can anticipate that they will stay grounded.

Metal Gief works wonders with these bc he grabs through even more things.

[ffoxxttrott]

Yeah 3 meters is kind of costly... but the thing is that with the Magneto Tempest to FAB, it seems like you actually have to land a hit in order for it to work, to be able to launch them (but then again, you are Magneto, where landing a hit isn't too hard), whereas for the Mouth Orb DHC thing, it works on blocking opponents. Except for maybe the Tempest on a grounded opponent into FAB, but I'm not too familiar with how easy that is to set up because I never play Magneto. That's really cool that it works through something going on with the super flash though.

It's debatable as to how worth it eating up 3 meters is though I guess... I just recall seeing a lot of match videos where Sentinel will go through like anywhere between 2-5 meters of Sent Hyper Force, Mouth Beam, Rocket Punch, Sent Hyper Force, Mouth Beam, Rocket Punch (repeat) just to chip the enemy down (especially on Storm), and if the chip damage seems to be worth 3-5 meters, then I'd say that the Mouth Orb, HVB, FAB is probably worth it.

Unfortunately for the QCF + PP in the Air for Sent, and then DHCing into FAB, it can also be push blocked between DHC to avoid grabbage.

As for the 2 meter mouth orb to FAB, it does seem to be able to be reliably escaped, unless the opponent doesn't know that they have to push block between the DHC. But if they do, its really easy to do on reaction and avoid the grab. The only other way I can think of to do it is to catch the opponent really low in the mouth orb and minimizing the time that they have to react, but then they also tend to land too soon and can jump right out of the grab.



I think that vid is going to be my last vid for a while... I think I've run out of creativity for now haha.

[eczangief]

^^
That's smart regarding Sent's chipping with meter versus the damage from the FAB you get. That put it into perspective for me a bit better.

Understandable with takin' a break, but overall Beastly vid-- has me fired up to finally borrow a camera long enough to make something cool.

Bring that cam to your next session though and grab some footage, match videos are slim pickins for ZAGnief, and no editing required. I've got a grab bag of random giefness to unleash in combo vid form so hopefully I don't slack off. BTW what did you edit yours with?

[ffoxxttrott]

I used Adobe Premiere Pro 2... way better than I needed to use to make that video, but its all I know how to use lol.

I'll see if anyone wants to record my possible upcoming small money match against the trap user... kind of embarassing to ask someone to record because it screams nerd all over though!

But before that money match happens I still have to get my new stick, get comfy with it, and then challenge the dude... he'll likely accept though. =)

[ffoxxttrott]

By the way, I'll be looking forward to seeing some Tron/Gief Mag/Gief or Mag/Gief/Tron goodness!

Seems like you and me are the only ones currently furthering the Giefness =)

[Augmint]

Don't think this has been mentioned but you can get tag in combos from giefs standing Hk - unf. he has to have his back directly to the wall.

You can do s.Hk 2hits - tag in sent on big characters like collosus and amingo. Not sure about cable.
Might be able to do j Lariat cross up, s Hk juggle into tag.
Something to look into.

[judge_rl]

mech gief breaking trap teams...on point? he has that kinda momentum where he can actually get in and survive? and breaking which trap teams? lol sounds like an interesting find

i mostly enjoy using gief for 2 reasons:
1.) as an assist- throw resets for crazy dmg
2.) as an assist- mech gief lariat!!! :)

[xxphilopiaxx]

Probably useless, but you can transfer the dash mode from normal gief to mech gief.

The set up is the exact same way with normal gief and everything still applies; you can jump/sj. special, super, snap, tag out, dhc in/out, etc and keep the glitch. Normal attacks and crotchgrab/headbite will cancel the dash glitch setup for both gief and mech gief.

Also, as long as you've done the set up for the dash glitch, you can special attack all day-lariats, throws, command throws, air command throws, banishing flat, snapout, tag out/tag in, DHC, and still maintain the dash glitch for mech gief as long you dont perform any normal attacks or the crotchgrab/headbite at any time.

[eczangief]

Noticed that too, not useless at all. I'll take what I can get- Gief needs every little bit.

[ffoxxttrott]

mech gief breaking trap teams...on point? he has that kinda momentum where he can actually get in and survive? and breaking which trap teams? lol sounds like an interesting find

i mostly enjoy using gief for 2 reasons:
1.) as an assist- throw resets for crazy dmg
2.) as an assist- mech gief lariat!!! :)


I meant that Mech Gief breaks trap teams with the Lariat assist, not on point. :wgrin:

However, against the Spiral trap, Mech Gief vs Spiral on point, you can just blindly go in and try to pound her to bits. The only problem is the circle sword attack, being that you'll have to take about two full hits of those before you can get in. The damage seems to even out when you land a hit on her though. Also you just have to watch out for the Sentinel drones because those kind of hurt a lot. Just jump over them or bat them away with Lariat. Once you get in on her though, she can only run away.

He also seems to work pretty well against the Strider/Doom trap because Strider has to be up close most of the time for it to work. The only problem is that Mech Gief takes a lot more damage defending against this because very few Doom Rocks get cancelled by Gief's arms. Also the gaps in the attacks seem to be smaller so being able to call out Gief assist while under attack is a lot harder than against Spiral. I don't think the opponent should be able to get out more than 1 cycle of the Strider/Doom though.



Oh yeah, another one of my favorite things about Mech Gief assist or even on Point is that you'll never get your ass snapped out and relaunched to death!

[eczangief]

I'm still too lazy to make a vid, but I just wanted to reiterate that Gief's jumping lights have gross range and good priority vs. tri-jumps at proper spacing. LK overheads most anybody as well.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/lapoderosa/jLK.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/lapoderosa/jLP.gif

[ffoxxttrott]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/lapoderosa/jLK.gif



Rofl, booty shot!

[judge_rl]

So, hardcore Gief' team: Fox, you say Mag/Gief/Tron?

[eczangief]

Mag/Gief/Tron : Mag/Gief is harder to get your 1 hit, but once is gets going it has resets you wouldn't see coming. Mag/Tron obviously boss tactics.

Mag/Storm/Gief (Team Food Poisoning aka MSG) : Mag/Gief gets easy whiff Tempest DHC to FAB, then you DHC to Hailstorm for Free life.

Gief/Sent/Tron : arguably the best team for Gief on point. Sent on point starts to get awkward with no projectile support though.


Gief/Tron has one hit death set-ups, so that duo can win matches easy.

[ffoxxttrott]

So, hardcore Gief' team: Fox, you say Mag/Gief/Tron?

ECZangief plays Mag/Gief/Tron


I play Gief/Cable/Sent, it works pretty well, but my Sent game is really n00b.

[eczangief]

s.LP: 4 Frames. sometimes a decent jump-check. the classic chop counter.

cr. LP: 4 Frames. Good for tick hits.

s.MK: 6 Frames. iirc its SJ Cancel-able.

cr. MP: 8 Frames. Launcher.

s.HK: 7 Frames. Actually one of the faster s.HKs. SJ-Cancel at ~13 Frame according to Joo's data. But I'm certain there's a second cancel spot either just before or just after. Causes good block-stun, cancellable to AR Slam for easy pressure/momentum.

s.FP: slow as hell. 14 Frames. Good priority, stun. Very useful for chain-cancel tick into SPD.

cr.FP: 12 Frames. AFAIK is same stun in less time, so a better bet than s.HP.

j.LP/j.LK: 6 Frames. Both good air pokes/jump checks.

j.HP: 11 Frames. Good priority when meched.

sj.HP: Especially useful bc neutral Fierce will not cause forced-dash after Fly-screen.

j.f+HP: good range and priority. Best mech move.

j.d+HP: best cross-up.

[xxphilopiaxx]

Random tidbit that I did in casuals. Not sure if its known or not, but if you're at the peak of the attack zangief's command air grab will beat out a tag in. I have it on video as well, so I'll try and put that up when i get the chance.

[shoultzula]

Random tidbit that I did in casuals. Not sure if its known or not, but if you're at the peak of the attack zangief's command air grab will beat out a tag in. I have it on video as well, so I'll try and put that up when i get the chance.

:rofl:, thats pretty good.

[eczangief]

hahaha. wow.

good to know.

[xxphilopiaxx]

LOL. I dont know how reliable it is, though. Probably not very unless you're telegraphing a tag in and then it has to be perfect timing. It was just a random thing. I was play gief/cammy/doom vs my friends santhrax. I had storm locked in between gief and doom's assist. I went for a crossup FK air command throw, but that left an opening for him to tag in sent (storm had a pixel of life). Sent comes in, I grab him, and then slam him into the rocks.

EDIT: OMG, I just watched the video again and its actually my 'gief air throw ASSIST that grabs sent out of the tag in.

[eczangief]

post up! interesting team, i'd like to peep that.

[xxphilopiaxx]

Here it is.

Zangief (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmamnQN_iAQ)

[eczangief]

thanks xphil! airthrOWNed lol i got ahold of a camera finally so i'm gonna put together a little somethin today i hope.


edit: http://youtube.com/watch?v=yWBYrxoPpME

[eczangief]

bump : ]

[shoultzula]

that gief shit was savage :rock:

[eczangief]

vol. 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IeTI9_kHt7Q

[shoultzula]

:looney:

love seeing shit like that. gief\tron is coming up, watch your back.

[ffoxxttrott]

Dang, Gief's been getting spoon fed the good stuff recently!

[xxphilopiaxx]

Very nice stuff, EC.
I have another 'gief vid in the works as well. More UFAB set-ups and other random solo and assisted combos, mix-ups, and stuff.

Here is a short vid with casual highlights. Zangief (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ThIlV3jXI)

[eczangief]

nice. i like your team.

[ffoxxttrott]

So I got a question for ya'll giefers...



Air PP Lariat vs Air KK Lariat?



Is there a difference between these two moves' properties? I can't seem to tell any difference... except for when trying to do normal jump, HK xx Lariat...

With PP Lariat it comes out fluidly and I'm able to do it without any pauses between each jump, but with KK Lariat, I can't seem to get it to come out smoothly, and I can't build meter as fast with it.


So, could it be different move properties, or difference/uncomfortable in execution for me?

[eczangief]

I'll have to mess around a bit with it, but off the top I don't remember noticing anything like that. I almost always use KK during low jumps/x-ups bc if you botch the timing and do a ground PP Lariat, you just lost the match. I'll play around tonight with em and see if i can help you out. :rock:

[ffoxxttrott]

Schweet, To be more specific, here's what I'm noticing:

HK -> PP Happens really close to the ground, and you can rejump really fast to do it again, like demonstrated in the meter building section of that Gief video I put up a while ago...


HK -> KK After the HK, Gief goes much higher before touching the ground again.


I'm really just thinking that hitting HK and then PP is a lot smoother and easier to do than hitting HK and then KK, allowing you to stay closer to the ground. Yarrr

[judge_rl]

So, I was playing Akuma/Gief today on XvSF in the arcade...is there no way to somehow fit Gief's infinite to work in Marvel? Likely not since there is no longer knock-down off of air lariat?

edit: This forum requires that you wait 150 seconds between posts. Please try again in 48 seconds. Gotta LOVE it! :P

This forum requires that you wait 150 seconds between posts. Please try again in 27 seconds.

This forum requires that you wait 150 seconds between posts. Please try again in 12 seconds.

This forum requires that you wait 150 seconds between posts. Please try again in 3 seconds.

[eczangief]

you can do it vs. assists. thats pretty much it. if you played gief/doom you could do a few reps with rocks backing you up.

corner infinite is fun though. theres a vid on prep's site

[judge_rl]

Oh yea. I remember that. lol genius assist use

[Augmint]

d+Lk, Hk (hits twice), call drones on 2nd hit, lk ARS onto drones , gief still in air - Lk, land 360 grab or FAB, whatever.
Can do Lk mk lariat too depending on how close to the opp gief is after the slam and how high the drones hit.

Gotta make sure you call drones late so you can still combo the Lk.
On big peeps like cable and sent you can let the Hk hit once and still do LK ARS.

Just adding that after the ARS if you are low enough to the ground you can do lk, mp chop (just before landing), D/F hp, sj lk, mp chop, 360.

Practiced on magneto and cyclops.


Also if you get an ARS onto drones in the corner you can do Lk, Mk (Just before you land), ground PP lariat, s LP, 360
Easy to land the Lp after the lariat.
Works on cable too.

[eczangief]

Also if you get an ARS onto drones in the corner you can do Lk, Mk (Just before you land), ground PP lariat, s LP, 360
Easy to land the Lp after the lariat.
Works on cable too.

Did not know that. Thanks mang

Smells like an infinite setup to me

[xxphilopiaxx]

Zangief Bug?

I was wondering if anyone could explain this.

In the corner:

a)s.FK [2 hits] xx FP banishing flat (whiff) xx FAB

or

b)Snapout opponent, FP banishing flat into empty corner xx FAB.

What happens is you get the the FAB grab animation and Zangiefs grunt, but there is no super flash or meter used. I know its not a SPD because you can't cancel a special into a special. Also, the SPD doesnt cause Gief to grunt. UFAB will come out though, with the flash and meter.

Interesting...

[RisunoMeijin]

Thats actually really weird sounding....

ill test it out a little and see if I get anything.

[eczangief]

hmmmmmmmm

*curls mustache*

[xxphilopiaxx]

I'm thinking maybe is because he is in the corner and has no where to travel? But you can do a regular FAB into a naked corner and it'll still come out. So, maybe it has something to do with the cancel of the FP BF xxx FAB?

[RisunoMeijin]

A glitched out super cancel is new to me....I dont know else to describe it though, and Im getting the exact same results to a T.

[eczangief]

haha.

you get meter like a reg. whiff SPD

you make a grunt like FAB

you recover as if its a whiff FAB (faster)

I tried to DHC, but that didn;t work. Wouldve been beast.

I'm trying to figure out what happens if they get grabbed. Maybe hitting the assist to HK xx Dp FP xx FAB, then catch a point landing from a sj. Lol?


I guess the question is, how do we make this useful. Otherwise it can be an IN YOUR FACE1!?! move that 3 ppl will maybe think is funny.


you can do it as a flashy mixup out of infinite. lol

[xxphilopiaxx]

I want to ask magnetro if he knows anything about this and why it only works in this situation.

also, why doesn't it work with UFAB?

[eczangief]

it dont look like you can get grabbed by it. I think its just the 'miss' animation and not an active grab. Actually makes sense bc afaik theres not really significant startup anyway-- if you see a whiff spd its always a miss haah.

[Augmint]

Did not know that. Thanks mang

Smells like an infinite setup to me

yeah but its stilll only limited to smaller characters - on cable you can only follow up the first lariat with Lp,Hk, 2P lariat, then land A1+A2 or maybe squueze out another LP into lariat.

Basically just saying regardless of the set up you still can't do the lariat inf. on mid/big characters.

Also with the ARS onto drones, Lk,Mp, land D/F Hp combo... it works easiest on commando for some strange reason.

[eczangief]

you can do it on magnus, tron, psylocke off the top of my head. Man-gus is the tallest I can think of. Who am I missing?

I think Commando has a funny hitbox with his feet. He takes longer to hit the ground is another possiblilty.

[eczangief]

^^

Since then, I've found some ways to get the infinite against everybody who matters, namely Psylocke assist. It lets you pick your proper juggle height and then you can go to work. Still, imo infinite is good only for 3-4 reps tops. It could be that more practice with it changes my mind, but as of now my limit is around 15-20 hits before I miss the juggle.

Sketch for vid;

Gief/Psy is a dumb duo, plain and simple:

*Anytime you get a jump-in hit, cancel j. Lariat, rejump LK+Psy xx lariat. Ambiguous cross-up into dead state.

From there you can rejump into the same BS.

*From a Psy hit, for flash/ to move into corner you can do jump, late LK, LK, rejump LK, LK xx Lariat, land walk under Lariat.

This does funny things with the momentum since you cross them up, but after the move animates from original side. So when they're done being juggled, they pop back over you and you can OTG with Roundhouse relayer ground cover assist.

*Psy allows for enough rapid mix-up potential that it becomes profitable to work in some of Gief's flashier mixups. This is the main difference btwn Tron and Psy for me. With Tron I'm always gonna keep it simple and work 2-3 setups over and over just because its easy-mode relayer on block 90% of the time at the proper range. But with Psy the dead-body effect just gives you more time to freestyle from oddball setups like whiff TK SPD for late overheads, elbow drop to create a setup where you and opponent are waking up simultaneously (pretty funny), whiff TK Lariats, ARS over and back etc. etc.


Still looking for Gief rejump infinite and some primo assist kill setups for some common vs. MSP/SSC/godtier situations.

[eczangief]

zanGIF is the muthafuckin champ?

<space holder for some realness>

[ffoxxttrott]

I miss teh gief discoveries and giefdom-ness... glad you're still keepin it real ECZ!

[eczangief]

^^

I thought you were droppin bombs again. Oh well. What's been good hit me up on AIM sometime.

__________________________________________________ ____________

NEC gief teams have me running all kinds of stupid assists:

Gief/Monkeys is patented:

Cross-over Splash xx j. LAriat, land, jump LP, j. LAriat, land walk under call Monkeys, x-up standing PP Lariat, monkeys hit... chaos ensues.

Can carry them half the screen and if you wind up in corner, infinite should be free. Midscreen you can finish with PP LARiat xx FAB with option to DHC if you read a faulty grab coming or rejump LK, LK x2, jump LAriat mixup into into same garbage.

[eczangief]

Random high-tech set-up:


after a lariat juggle, sj + FP throw into Psy...

... lk, lk, rejump

... whiff 360, floaty overhead

... knee drop whiff late lariat, Okizeme mixup

[eczangief]

Helper Infinites:

[Launcher, LK, LK xx Lariat, land]

[j.LK xx Lariat]

[j.LK, j.LK]

[j. Lariat]




Lariat assist is also interesting when it comes to creating assist kill scenarios. Drop it to catch a falling AA, then you have a 1-shot chance at getting a snap, or mixing up into a combo that lets you poke away for a rep at assist and land with another 1-shot.

[ffoxxttrott]

Jumping lariat over and over will juggle helpers to infinite?!