Need SSF2T Help!

[Shinku Hadoken]

Is it just me or is the AI impossibly hard on super turbo? I use the MAME emulator because i prefer to play the arcade version. I play Ryu, and i find playing against the AI ten times harder then playing against most human opponents. I'm a pretty decent player because i definately have more wins against human opponents than loses, but against the AI it just takes me forever to finish the game.

I find playing against characters like T.Hawk to be a pain in the a** because for some reason i can't seem to beat him. I use the computer keyboard to play, so is there any major downside to this? I know most people prefer the stick, but its too hard for me to master, and i don't like the pad. Also, do the computer's characters do more damage than the players'? Like if its a Ryu vs Ryu against the computer, would the computer's Ryu do more damage with each hit? I find it hard to tell sometimes. Please suggest some strategies and feel free to share your thoughts.

[KnuckIfYouBuckley]

Is it just me or is the AI impossibly hard on super turbo? I use the MAME emulator because i prefer to play the arcade version. I play Ryu, and i find playing against the AI ten times harder then playing against most human opponents. I'm a pretty decent player because i definately have more wins against human opponents than loses, but against the AI it just takes me forever to finish the game.

I find playing against characters like T.Hawk to be a pain in the a** because for some reason i can't seem to beat him. I use the computer keyboard to play, so is there any major downside to this? I know most people prefer the stick, but its too hard for me to master, and i don't like the pad. Also, do the computer's characters do more damage than the players'? Like if its a Ryu vs Ryu against the computer, would the computer's Ryu do more damage with each hit? I find it hard to tell sometimes. Please suggest some strategies and feel free to share your thoughts.

The AI is incredibly hard on Super Turbo. Especially on the American version.

There is a major downside to using the keyboard. IT SUCKS. You may dislike pad and think stick is too hard to master, but unless you switch over to one of those, you're pretty much screwed.

I'm pretty sure the comp. does more damage than you. It has all kinds of unfair advantages over you.

Here are some strategies:

1. Put down your keyboard, step away from MAME

2. Buy a PS2 (if you don't have one yet)

3. Buy a stick

4. Buy Capcom Classics Collection, Vol. 2

5. Never play against the comp., it forms bad habits, the only reason to have the home version of a game is for training mode (and playing friends!)

[Shinku Hadoken]

LOL! Well, if the keyboard sucks that much i guess i will have to step away from it, i know the stick is much better but the pad? I don't really like the pad, i mean its smoother transition and everything but i don't like the placing of the buttons. I do have a ps2 but no street fighter games for it, and whats wrong it MAME? Does it not simulate arcade play properly or something? Thanks for the reply though, i may have to get used to the stick or pad.

by the way could you elaborate on what kind of unfair advantages the comp has against human players, does it have faster recovery time or something? If it does have you tested it? Thanks for your help.

[arstal]

People get their panties in a bunch due to kaillera lag. There are some very good online ST players- and playing them is likely better, even in lag, then local scrubs. Yeah, good offline comp beats good online comp, but how many places HAVE good offline comp?

Good online comp beats bad offline comp any day of the week though. Bad comp is not much better then the CPU.

I would invest in a stick though. Keyboard players are often frowned upon. Don't worry about CPU being cheap, you can't do anything about that- just find people to play who can improve your game.

[Master Bigode]

If you're interested in playing against the AI, just play the Japanese version.(Super Street Fighter 2 X)
You will notice the difference really soon.
BTW, get at least a pad, 'cuz keyboards suck for fighting games.

[KnuckIfYouBuckley]

LOL! Well, if the keyboard sucks that much i guess i will have to step away from it, i know the stick is much better but the pad? I don't really like the pad, i mean its smoother transition and everything but i don't like the placing of the buttons. I do have a ps2 but no street fighter games for it, and whats wrong it MAME? Does it not simulate arcade play properly or something? Thanks for the reply though, i may have to get used to the stick or pad.

by the way could you elaborate on what kind of unfair advantages the comp has against human players, does it have faster recovery time or something? If it does have you tested it? Thanks for your help.

PS2 has the advantage over MAME because it has training mode. If you're playing a fighter alone, it should honestly be in training mode, getting your execution and combos down and all that other good shit.

ST AI, in the US version, is able to read all your moves. Most people will tell you about the "psychic" AI that can counter your move before you even do it. Don't know about the faster recovery time, but the AI will randomly throw you in the middle of combos, and they can make throws like Blanka's bite or Honda's hug last long enough to kill/nearly kill you, no matter how hard you try to mash out.

[Shinku Hadoken]

Well i don't think i'm going to buy the game for the ps2 just for training mode, i mean i think i could do that alone on 2 player play, so its not that big a deal for me. Yes, i do feel that the AI reads all of my moves, i mean it reads the small jabs and all the combo's and everything, its quite frustrating especially when i face T.Hawk. Also i agree about the hugs/bites lasting forever and causing a ridiculous amount of damage, thats another one of the things that pisses me off about the game. Guess I'm going to have to go on kaillaira to get some good gameplay, cuz the computer is honestly too cheap.

[Mixah]

tell me why the ccc version feels like you're playing online with lag? i dislike it. am i just too used to the arcade version?

[Demon Dash]

I hate the "I press a button and I take damage" aspects with great fury...

I mean the computer really does fucking piss me off. The worst way it cheats is if it knows it has a faster attack when you press a button, so essentially you control the computer more than you control your own character. There's been times though where I've made the computer just stand there and jump repeatedly, but as soon as I move back in to attack it punches me back to the future.

[NKI]

4. Buy Capcom Classics Collection, Vol. 2Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...!

tell me why the ccc version feels like you're playing online with lag?Because it DOES have input lag. :tdown:

[Mixah]

thought so... arcade ftw.

[Gen-An]

Yes, ST AI cheats, but in the end it's still AI and has patterns that can be exploited easily. For instance, whiffing standing jabs vs Cammy will trick her into doing a low HK. If you do it at the right distance it will whiff and you can counter-sweep her. Also, FB/DP patterns still take down plenty of CPU characters in ST.

[SpinalBlood]

As already tipped, try the mame japanese version. It's still not easy like the previous st, but not insanely hard like world/us

[drobizh]

against t hawk pick someone with a dash attack ala boxer. and when he does jump ppp just block and bust out a move like charge b...f + punch or df+punch. i don't remember much else

[polarity]

fantastic the biweekly "ST's AI is too hard!" thread

[{PFH}-Lake]

Ya the AI on the comp is dumb, walk up flash kicks, or mash a throw and take off half your life.

[drobizh]

fantastic the biweekly "ST's AI is too hard!" thread

:rofl:

[fjf314]

Because it DOES have input lag. :tdown:

Sorry for what is probably a question most people know the answer to already, but a few of my friends and I have just started getting into ST again. Right now we're just using SFAC and picking ST characters. I'm looking into hooking up a copy of the game so that I can hit up training mode, so would I be better off also trying to get a copy of SFAC or going with CCCv2?

[Demon Dash]

To beat Dee Jay just sweep all day...

[goodm0urning]

Sorry for what is probably a question most people know the answer to already, but a few of my friends and I have just started getting into ST again. Right now we're just using SFAC and picking ST characters. I'm looking into hooking up a copy of the game so that I can hit up training mode, so would I be better off also trying to get a copy of SFAC or going with CCCv2?CCC2. Not perfect, but closest.

[r3ko]

Right now, i would just wait for ST:HD on 360 or ps3, if you can't wait for that, go with japanese hsf2 capkore version. They fix alot of bugs in it, like O.sagat's fireball recovery and claws wall dive motion. Still have the problem of non st characters not allowing st characters to tech throws, including o.st versions of characters. But i would say this is closer arcade ST than ccc2 is.

I mean what do you prefer, hsf2 st and o.st characters only with a slight tech throw problem between, o.st and st characters or have buggy speeds and input delay that ccc2 offers?

[EveryFlowerFlow]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...!

Because it DOES have input lag. :tdown:


If even CCC ST isn't arcade perfect, what is the best version to play on console?

[r3ko]

Read the post above yours.

[fjf314]

CCC2. Not perfect, but closest.

Thanks for the heads up.

snip

That's great and all, but it wasn't one of the two options I was asking about. I've got a US ps2 on my hands already and I'm not particularly interested in going out of my way to be able to play some Japanese version of the game.

[woof]

There is a major downside to using the keyboard. IT SUCKS.
nope

[r3ko]

That's great and all, but it wasn't one of the two options I was asking about. I've got a US ps2 on my hands already and I'm not particularly interested in going out of my way to be able to play some Japanese version of the game.

Really sorry for telling you what the best version is, please forgive me otherwise i won't be able to fall asleep tonight!

[Mixah]

Sorry for what is probably a question most people know the answer to already, but a few of my friends and I have just started getting into ST again. Right now we're just using SFAC and picking ST characters. I'm looking into hooking up a copy of the game so that I can hit up training mode, so would I be better off also trying to get a copy of SFAC or going with CCCv2?

SFAC != ST

seriously, get CCC and deal with the input lag, get MAME and use the ROM, because it's pretty damn close, but still for whatever reason, isn't 100% right, or get the arcade cabinet, because you can POSSIBLY snag one from some dying arcade somewhere (because they're dropping like flies, but they're soon to be dead 100%) for under $1K, but it's going to take some hard looking to find one. I do mean HARD ASS LOOKING.

or wait, because I hear that the HD is going to be smexy and arcade perfect. we shall see.

[!!Sazabi!!]

if you can find it.. try lookin for ST on DC

[fjf314]

Really sorry for telling you what the best version is, please forgive me otherwise i won't be able to fall asleep tonight!

Fail... :rolleyes:

get MAME and use the ROM

The ROM wouldn't have Training mode, though. That's what I really need. I'm fairly certain that the AI in the game would rape me for free, so I just need to hit up training mode to practice some combos. :rofl:

[r3ko]

On emulators you can save state and load states quite easily. So for example on kawaks, just press f5 at the start of the round to save, then at the end of the 2nd round press f7 to go back to the start.

[NKI]

I be better off also trying to get a copy of SFAC or going with CCCv2?CCC2 is probably the worst home version of ST, aside from the GBA and 3D0 versions. Definitely stick with SFAC.

CCC2. Not perfect, but closest.Dreamcast and PS1 are the closest. It's kinda pointless to rank any of the other versions, because they're all so terrible they're not even worth playing.

get CCC and deal with the input lagYou've gotta be joking...:wtf:

[Mixah]

Fail... :rolleyes:



The ROM wouldn't have Training mode, though. That's what I really need. I'm fairly certain that the AI in the game would rape me for free, so I just need to hit up training mode to practice some combos. :rofl:

umm..

final burn alpha... set player 2 to infinite life buddy.

You've gotta be joking...:wtf:
it's worth at least, IMHO, the training mode.

[r3ko]

You'll never get arcade perfect ST on any console, the code is so messed up, even if they tried to fix it it will probably just mess the game up even more, like with CCC2.

[goodm0urning]

Dreamcast and PS1 are the closest. It's kinda pointless to rank any of the other versions, because they're all so terrible they're not even worth playing.I played the PS1 version recently. I cannot for the life of me remember how I managed to tolerate the load times on PS1 2D fighters. During the 15 seconds it took to load a match, I think I counted every strand of hair on the knuckles of my right hand.

[Return of Shiki]

The only good thing about ST on CCCv2 now is Sirlin's tutorial, and you can watch it for free on his website.

Still CCCv2 is worth the $10 (if you buy it at Target, not Gamestop) for Strider, Midnight Wanderers, Chariot, and Capcom Quiz.

Until SSF2T HD comes out, your only choice for console ST is to play AE and pick ST characters only (unless you're an O. Sagat player).

[Mixah]

The only good thing about ST on CCCv2 now is Sirlin's tutorial, and you can watch it for free on his website.

Still CCCv2 is worth the $10 (if you buy it at Target, not Gamestop) for Strider, Midnight Wanderers, Chariot, and Capcom Quiz.

Until SSF2T HD comes out, your only choice for console ST is to play AE and pick ST characters only (unless you're an O. Sagat player).

ok, how many times in this thread again....

AE != ST..... wtf?

seriously the game functions a lot differently. i can't place my finger on certain things, but my blanka gets monkey fucked in terms of speed. he just seems faster.

[Shinku Hadoken]

against t hawk pick someone with a dash attack ala boxer. and when he does jump ppp just block and bust out a move like charge b...f + punch or df+punch. i don't remember much else


Thank you! This strategy works perfectly against T. Hawk! I can't believe i didn't think of using balrog, i mean he is harder to use for me than ryu, but i kicked t.hawks ass with him!

[Superking]

Best version of ST = CPS2 version.

It's pretty cheap now to get ST and CPS2 boards, the only tricky part here is acquiring either a Supergun or a Cabinet to play it.

[fjf314]

ok, how many times in this thread again....

AE != ST..... wtf?

I think everyone realizes this, but this thread has made it apparent that when dealing with the console versions, ST != ST.

Regardless, thanks for all of the input guys. I'm still not sure what I'm going to use since I'm getting so many conflicting ideas, but at least I know what's wrong with a lot of different versions.

[jepjepjep]

Best version of ST = CPS2 version.

It's pretty cheap now to get ST and CPS2 boards, the only tricky part here is acquiring either a Supergun or a Cabinet to play it.

About how cheap can you get the board, and do you have any leads on where to find one? I'm interested.

[NKI]

I played the PS1 version recently. I cannot for the life of me remember how I managed to tolerate the load times on PS1 2D fighters. During the 15 seconds it took to load a match, I think I counted every strand of hair on the knuckles of my right hand.Yeah, the load times suck, but the game itself is pretty close to the arcade version.

[Master Bigode]

Dreamcast and PS1 are the closest. It's kinda pointless to rank any of the other versions, because they're all so terrible they're not even worth playing.

</amiga>
You'll never get arcade perfect ST on any console, the code is so messed up, even if they tried to fix it it will probably just mess the game up even more, like with CCC2.
I know what you mean, son.
There's a lot of unused code, I wonder what it was for.
i can't place my finger on certain things, but my blanka gets monkey fucked in terms of speed. he just seems faster.
Because AE is FASTER than ST.

[Mixah]

That woudl explain it.

[laugh]

Finally, people other than myself agree that CCC2 ST has input lag. It was so easily noticible with deep jumpins, combos, and hit confirms. It was painful.

[ShinjiGohan]

Yeah, the load times suck, but the game itself is pretty close to the arcade version.

Care to ask Watson and DSP about that? lol All the games have their own problems. From different spacings, hitboxes, to even 2 button lariats which fuck up drumming. Or did we all forget how bad it was 2 years ago at evo?

[nohoho]

seriously the game functions a lot differently. i can't place my finger on certain things, but my blanka gets monkey fucked in terms of speed. he just seems faster.
Blanka is fine in AE. Any monkey fucking going on is your fault and not the game's.

[NKI]

Care to ask Watson and DSP about that? lol All the games have their own problems. From different spacings, hitboxes, to even 2 button lariats which fuck up drumming. Or did we all forget how bad it was 2 years ago at evo?Spacing and hit boxes are the same. I tested out Watson's claim about Boxer's far st.Fierce whiffing against ducking DeeJay, and that is false.

(What was DSP claiming about differences?)

There are really only a few big differences:
- Chun's medium upkicks fall too slowly
- Too much delay between "Round 1, Fight!" and when you can actually move.
- Two button lariats.
- Speed is slightly different.

Other than that, the game is pretty close to the arcade version. Definitely not the same as the arcade, but waaaaay better than CCC2.

[ShinjiGohan]

which only has a slight slowdown in a few stages, and small input lag.

[Master Bigode]

Finally, people other than myself agree that CCC2 ST has input lag. It was so easily noticible with deep jumpins, combos, and hit confirms. It was painful.

I can't combo j.RH> c.Forward> c.Jab whit Vega in CCC2.:looney:

[Shag]

There are really only a few big differences:
- Chun's medium upkicks fall too slowly
- Too much delay between "Round 1, Fight!" and when you can actually move.
- Two button lariats.
- Speed is slightly different.

Didn't you also need 2 chips to finish someone off at zero life? :sweat:

[NKI]

which only has a slight slowdown in a few stages, and small input lag.The input lag, no matter how small it may be, makes the game totally unplayable. Top players can't even consistently do basic basic basic stuff like comboing a j.RH. (See Evo2007 grand finals.)

Didn't you also need 2 chips to finish someone off at zero life? :sweat:Ah yes, that is also true.

[ShinjiGohan]

then the finals are released I'll watch that. However with practice you can adjust your timing, it isn't like the combos are suddenly impossible, you just have to press it a few frames eariler.

I mean, if it really was so bad then why didn't anyone notice this at the qualifiers? Evo south, FRX, ECC, Evo west?

[Maj]

Also Guile has CPS1 chains in PS1 version. Which is awesome if you're working on a Guile combo video for Evo. Maybe less awesome if you're trying to hold an ST tournament. Though i doubt anyone would get away with claiming to have done CPS1 chains by accident. And they're easy enough for a judge to spot.

I know Evo is a console tournament now, but can't all the OG people bring their arcade boards to Evo instead? We could buy like 3 Xboxes per station and stack them up like a wall, then hide the arcade boards behind them. So if anyone was taking photos or recording video, it would look like ST was an Xbox game. In fact we could even put CCC2 in the Xboxes to further throw off the anti-arcade police.

[Half-Ro]

get the arcade cabinet, because you can POSSIBLY snag one from some dying arcade somewhere (because they're dropping like flies, but they're soon to be dead 100%) for under $1K, but it's going to take some hard looking to find one. I do mean HARD ASS LOOKING.





No joke there is one down the block from me, at a nickel-a-play. I just dont have enough money to buy it :arazz:

[fluxcore]

umm..

final burn alpha... set player 2 to infinite life buddy.



I've had some problems with the code for that, actually - both in MAME and FBA the 2p infinite life cheat breaks combos, hit stuns and knock downs 80% of the time - they just don't seem to happen. I found it easiest to use MAME, bind infinite 2p life to a key, and press it twice after each 'practice run' to reset 2p's life to full.

Perhaps there is a specific cheat/fba version/ST rom with which the cheat works properly? Any ideas?

--flux

[Cardinal_Sin]

I've had some problems with the code for that, actually - both in MAME and FBA the 2p infinite life cheat breaks combos, hit stuns and knock downs 80% of the time - they just don't seem to happen. I found it easiest to use MAME, bind infinite 2p life to a key, and press it twice after each 'practice run' to reset 2p's life to full.

Perhaps there is a specific cheat/fba version/ST rom with which the cheat works properly? Any ideas?

--flux

I've found that infinite life cheats for almost every version of classic SF turn you into a hitstun-less, invulnerable monster that has varying pushback. It seems weird that the actual event of going into hitstun animation is also tied to the loss of life from the meter (I'm guessing that the life value of the person getting hit has to change for it to register properly as a hit in-game).

[hanz0]

when will you people learn, Mame team has already perfected cps2 emulation and its 100% the only diference is that your playing on a PC monitor now if you hook it up to arcade monitor:wink:

Last time I checked the only things thats not 100% emulated is some RASTER effects, other than that everything else is perfect.

trust me i know lots about emulatios:wink:

[Master Bigode]

when will you people learn, Mame team has already perfected cps2 emulation and its 100% the only diference is that your playing on a PC monitor now if you hook it up to arcade monitor:wink:

Last time I checked the only things thats not 100% emulated is some RASTER effects, other than that everything else is perfect.

trust me i know lots about emulatios:wink:

CPS games are currently running faster than they should, and Q-Sound is far from accurate.
Good thing, hum ?

[NKI]

However with practice you can adjust your timingWe shouldn't have to re-learn a game that we've known for over a decade.

I mean, if it really was so badIt really is that bad. Ask any reasonably good ST player what they think about CCC2. Everyone hates it...both the Americans and the Japanese.

then why didn't anyone notice this at the qualifiers?Of the three qualifiers I went to (Evo East, Evo North, Final Round X), two of them were on arcade, and at Evo East (which used CCC2), I said to Seth, "There is definitely something wrong with this version." I just didn't know what it was at the time, and we wouldn't have been able to change anything anyway, because the staff had already announced that ST would be on CCC2 this year.

[fjf314]

at Evo East (which used CCC2), I said to Seth, "There is definitely something wrong with this version." I just didn't know what it was at the time, and we wouldn't have been able to change anything anyway, because the staff had already announced that ST would be on CCC2 this year.

I think that the game's recent tournament usage gave a false pretense of accuracy. I know that I watched the Evo West videos, saw that they were using ST from CCC2, and assumed that it was either arcade perfect or pretty close to it. Apparently I assumed horribly wrong.

[FMJaguar]

I think that the game's recent tournament usage gave a false pretense of accuracy. I know that I watched the Evo West videos, saw that they were using ST from CCC2, and assumed that it was either arcade perfect or pretty close to it. Apparently I assumed horribly wrong.

All the versions cycle between being horrible and acceptable, it's part of the roller coaster ST console ride!

Right now everyone is waiting for STHD anyway, so it's open season on CCC2 complaints, it's yesterday's game, just like AE last year, and PS1 ST the year before that.

[Mixah]

CPS games are currently running faster than they should, and Q-Sound is far from accurate.
Good thing, hum ?

the running faster is somewhat tolerable. at least it's not doing shit it shouldn't (except that weird honda glitch (the throw and the headbutt super on kaillera)). the qsound i'm willing to accept as just in the graphical / sound glitches, that don't really affect gameplay too much, until it ranodmly starts fucking up key sound effects that you need for defense.

[ShinjiGohan]

We shouldn't have to re-learn a game that we've known for over a decade.

It wouldn't really be re-learning if prior to the tournament that you picked up a copy of CCC2 and practiced on it to get ready for the tournament. Which is what most of the players should have done. So by the time you got to the tournament you'd have already adjusted to the slight timing differences.

It really is that bad. Ask any reasonably good ST player what they think about CCC2. Everyone hates it...both the Americans and the Japanese.


Everyone hates it now that Evo worlds is over and done with. No one, not even at Evo west with all of the OG players over there hated it prior to worlds with exception of Shirts (Dream moved to Tennesse so he doesn't count lol).

Of the three qualifiers I went to (Evo East, Evo North, Final Round X), two of them were on arcade, and at Evo East (which used CCC2), I said to Seth, "There is definitely something wrong with this version." I just didn't know what it was at the time, and we wouldn't have been able to change anything anyway, because the staff had already announced that ST would be on CCC2 this year.

Yeah I was there at north and FRX... I'd forgotten that they did do arcade at FRX though. So thats my mistake.

However if there really wasn't that many complaints about it until now it really couldn't have been that bad. You're implying that its completely unplayable. On par with the 3DO version of which you couldn't even pick the old version of characters, or having to press the "play" button for a strong punch or however you had it set up (that was typically the same as having to press the start button the PS1-2 controller for an attack to those that didn't play it on the 3do).

[goodm0urning]

It wouldn't really be re-learning if prior to the tournament that you picked up a copy of CCC2 and practiced on it to get ready for the tournament. Which is what most of the players should have done. So by the time you got to the tournament you'd have already adjusted to the slight timing differences.Unless my brain and hands are lying to me, the input lag varies from stage to stage. Some of them feel fine and some of them don't.

[hanz0]

CPS games are currently running faster than they should, and Q-Sound is far from accurate.
Good thing, hum ?

well its much better than playing those bad ports i suposse:wink:

[-WiL-]

Just use mame, its arcade perfect.

There's plenty of sticks and pads for computer as well.