cactus planet

[shoultzula]

It seems that no one plays him for one reason or another. He actually has some decent options to work with. Besides, since when isn't a fighting cactus with minions not top tier?

I'm a logical person when it comes to fighting games. I have to have a run down on my character before I can attempt to figure out what to do.

[xxphilopiaxx]

Hmm...i'll see what I can come with.

[shoultzula]

I always read your posts philopia, post some shit up because I know you can come up with something. I'm going to be messing around with amigo for a few weeks.

normals:

his normals have extreme range.
iirc, all his normals are SJCable on hit.

His lp\lk could be the longest in the game.

S\c.fp also have mad priority and I was reading that c.fp stuffs mando so it'll probably stuff a few more things as well.

j.rh has crazy priority and can hit 1-3 times depending on you angle. If you can master it, its just as good as any other overhead mixup in the game.

s.hk on full extension covers most of the damn screen. He'll control the up angle and most of upfwd angle up to half screen away and this too is SJC. Has great priority. From what I remember, the priority on his s.hk can rival storm\magnus priority.

J+lk is an instant overhead so he's capable of frontside overhead games.

DF+fp doesn't have the best priority iirc. iirc, its hit box isn't relevant to his sprite around his arm. not sure though?

c.mk is the longest range launcher for him.

[beatsofdevil]

if you can get your opponent in long enough blockstun, free unblockable cactus babies are nice. especially if the long blockstun assist can still hit after...

I did that with zangief ground assist

[xxphilopiaxx]

My camera is acting funny. I'll record and post the stuff I find later after I fix it.

Anyway, some stuff I've found so far:

-TK onion drill, mash on lk and it'll come out, no matter how low you are to the ground the lk will come out, giving you an overhead.

-TK onion drill when you are standing right next to your opponent and amingo will pass through their character. I haven't exactly figured it out yet, but 7/10 times amingo will pass through, and the other 3 times a knockdown will occur. Anyway, this sets up some nice cross-ups.

Easy set up: Launch > dash under, drop tron proj, TK onion drill. crossup opponent + sandwhich between tron > whatever. If the opponent blocks, you still get the lk after the onion drill for an overhead.

Another set up, though not as reliable: after a throw, dash, drop assist xx TK onion drill.

-blocked vine super does decent amount of chip damage and last a very long time when its blocked. I think if the opponent is pushblocking it, it'll make it last longer. Or at least it seems that way. Also, the recovery isnt that bad either.

Right after the super ends you can:
-tick throw, dash xx blocked onion drill xx vine super again or TK onion drill cross up.

-hit with c.lk > whatever. I dont know how reliable this is, but it might work if they're expecting a throw

-vine super again. Instant start up, it sucks them in, etc. At best, your opponent will block the super again and you still have the options afterwards.

-midscreen and opponent blocking:
s.lk, s.fp + sent ground xx fp onion drill, assist hits, TK onion drill, lk (overhead).

If the opponent eats the overhead, go into combo of choice.
If opponent blocks the overhead, land, s.lk, s.fp + sent, repeat.

This might work in pushing your opponent into the corner. It might be pushblockable, but the drones should stuff most of your opponents options afterwards.

-opponent blocking in corner:
s.lk, call in sent ground assist, s.fp xx lk grab cactus, TK FP onion drill, mash on lk...

Again, if the opponent eats the lk overhead, go into combo of choice.
if opponent blocks, land, s.lk, repeat.

I think it might be possible to drop 2 cactus babies, depending on when you call in sent. Drop 2 grab cactus babies to increase your chance of them grabbing the opponent during the gaps in this 'lockdown' or mix it up between a hitting/grabbing and grabbing/hitting. It sounds good on paper and looks good in practice, but Im not sure how reliable this is.

In corner:
Launch, sj.lp, lk, lp, lk, lp onion drill, pause, lk, lp, land, dash under opponent, call tron proj, TK lp onion drill crossup, assist hits, vine super.

Wheeee!

More to come.

ETA: Why couldnt they have the grab cactus as an amingo assist...?

[shoultzula]

if you can get your opponent in long enough blockstun, free unblockable cactus babies are nice. especially if the long blockstun assist can still hit after...

I did that with zangief ground assist

yup, thats pretty broken in the corner. Its harder to get midscreen though but it does work if you can get a sandwhich+assist after you plant your homies.

The little homies are going to be the staple point of his offense.

[xxphilopiaxx]

So, it looks like its the number of hits that cause the knockdown. TK lk drill, 1-2 hits will cross up, but 3 hits knocks down.

I remember I was playing a friend using amingo, storm (i think), doom. At the start of the match he did: call doom xx vine super.

A couple of times, it just ate whatever I threw out there. And if i blocked it, i took chip damage from the super and dooms rocks.

Also, the super is instant start up, so DHCing out of is easy if you're in a sticky situation. DHC in hailstorm or proton cannon.

I wonder how amingo/IM AAA works out?

also, j.lk is an overhead that hits on the way up. So, midscreen AC > fp, land, j.lk (overhead) + tron will sandwhich the opponent between amingo and the assist.

[shoultzula]

amigo\IM AA could work out. The double instant DHC is too much to handle.

I'm playing amigo\xxx\tron too. Tron makes anyone good lol

I was watching some amigo action eariler and after FS, you can call your assist+ onion bounce for a dirty xup after FS. With tron, its going to lead to free xup, into relayer+baby cactus, tron rings end, relayer with normals, baby cactus hits, relayer with more normals, cancel cactus 1 more time and go back to fighting.

My plan is that the opponent will eventually get tired of dealing w\ the baby cacti if you can create something off of it. Thats going to force him to jump, from there I can take advantage of my s.hk+tron into another baby cactus.

Baby cactus:

slapping cactus:

on plant, it causes twitch guard but not during its moving phase. When its about to swing, it will cause twitch guard again.

The distance of these attacks seem random with either of the punches.

The speed of this cactus is much faster than the grab cactus.

The recovery after contact is slower than grab version.

grab cactus:

on plant, causes twitch guard but won't cause twitch guard during its moving phase or grab phase.

moves slower
recovers quicker after contatct.
more life per hit
you can combo after it grabs. You can even dash through them for dirty xups.

The one down side to the grab cactus is that if your opponent goes into block animation with a physical attack or if twitch guard is activated, the baby cactus won't grab. I was really praying that would work too because you come up with some dirty ass unblockables.

If your opponent jumps over your baby cacti to get around them and attack you, move into your baby cacti. You can take advantage of while its still out just by hanging out w\it.

instant overheads

this mainly with tron as your assist because you want her damage off the rings with your overhead combo. The call tron, jufpwd+lk, land doesn't combo but if you do call tron, jupfwd+lk, max delay, j.rh, you can get all 3 to combo in before damage scale. Chunky life right off the bat.

__________________________________________________ _

anyone remember amigos unblockable? qcb+pp, dhc is an unblockable during a certain part of it. I can't remember where though.

[xxphilopiaxx]

taken from mapster's post/thread:

Even though i'm sure no one pays attention to this section, i'm posting this on the off-chance that atleast 1 person will notice it.

I recently discovered in a match on accident that Amingo has an unblockable(!) When an opponent is jumping at you, or after you knock an opponent down, perform Amingo's dancing flower super (QCB + PP). As soon as the flower touches the back of the opponent, DHC to any other super. The blocking opponent will get hit and bounce up a bit after the DHC, but will recover rather quickly. DHCing into supers such as Proton Cannon, HSF, Hailstorm, etc, will hit the opponent. Well there ya go, Amingo has an unblockable, and hell has officially frozen over.

If anyone doesn't understand what I said and would like a short video of the unblockable being done, hit me up on AIM under Mapster007 and i'll send it to you. Amingo4Life.

[shoultzula]

thnx, I can work with that now. I'm sure theres easy setups for cheap unblockables.

amigo as an assist

Most people would probably shit on him for being such a crappy assist, he only has that damn ball special that leaves him in prime postion to be punished and there isn't time in a real fight to grab his tomato power ups.

A while back, I used to pick jill\gambit\capcom for low tier shit and I had jill on heal type. I'd build bar with jill and let my gambit be able to dump it. The thing is though, if I ever needed more life in the fight, I would call jills heal type assist, qcb+kk with gambit. The super would slide my sprite right over jill and grab the life, then do his KK super to cover me and jill. I would have gambit alive FOREVER because I would mainly use my bar to regain life and play keep away over and over. Some games, I recovered close to 40% life back so it was like my character had almost 200pts of life.

you can use amigo's power up the same way in a sense but you need a character who can take advantage of that scenario. Off the top of my head, hayato, marrow, strider, sonson, charile, gambit, thanos, storm, cable, sent. I'm sure theres more though.

The thing about amigos power up assist, is that you have to know which way it will go. First off, amigo will always plant it behind you. Once the tree blossoms, determines the way it will jump off. If your in front of it, it comes @ you from behind. If your behind the tree, it comes @ you from the front.

examples to get your powerups.

with charlie, c.lk, c.mk, c.rh confirm for counter assists, call amigo, qcf+pp.
with strider, activate orbs, call amigo and just keep flooding the screen.
with marrow, ground series, call amigo, qcf+lp, qcb+pp, the one super that flies all over the place. Don't quite remember the input.
with sonson, ground magic series+amigo, wallclimb to activate the tomato to jump off, qcf+lp to throw monkeys to zone and get your power up or wall dive kick.
with cable, ahvb+amigo assist
with storm, hail+amingo assist
with sent, spit+amigno, hsf.

that should be enough examples of how to get the power ups.

Heal type: iirc, it builds back 1\8th bar or something to that extent.
enhance type: is defense up. The funny thing is they spelled defense, defence in marvel. From my observations, enhance type builds defense up by 50%. Every hit you take does 50% less life. During enhance type, every time you make contact, your bar stops going down.


double powerup glitch: once you call amigo, he'll plant the tree and leave. Once he recovers so you can call him again, call him but touch the tree that already out there. This will cause the tomato to jump your way and amigo will come out the 2nd time to plant another one immediately. Very good trick for life up, but not so much as defense up.

[shoultzula]

hit boxes:

ok, after extensive testing today, amingos hit boxes aren't as good as you would think. He actually has a sprite box in his hit boxes to ensure that he wouldn't have great priority. This means you can hit him out of his normals except for c.lk, s\c.jab, and s.rh which seem to be his best priority moves. He still has decent range though just be aware that his priority isn't the best.

team structure:

after watching a few videos of some pretty good amingo players, it seems that he can build bar pretty effectively. So it would be good to have a character that can dump bar for a purpose.

As of now, my team is amingo\charlie\tron and amingo is on enhance type while charlie is an AA. Since amingo can build bar a little, charlie can dump it but not for the sake of chip. If you do something like c.lk+amingo assist, c.mk, s.fp, qcf+pp, the sonic boom super will flood the screen as you grab the defense up. Then, you can dash repeatedly and make it over it to your opponent before he can recover and rush him down.

so, your qcf+pp super is allowing you to get the defense up which is allowing charlie\tron to rush the fuck down. I had mixup hit me with a marrow tron full combo and it only did 15% life to charlie. Its amazing how much the defense up is helping out. Basically, your putting your faith in charlie landing a hit instead of landing a super and with defense up on your side, you can really take hits. Charlie has a mean rush down anyway.

amingo is the only character in the game with defense up as an assist. If you felt like you had an incredible sent\cyke or storm\cyke, you can slap amingo on that team for the last spot and just him to give your characters defense up. Sent+defense up would be a nightmare and you can easily get it with call amingo+hsf all day.

I'm a firm believer in that rare assist in the game are actually worth something. Amingo\ruby heart are the only 2 assists with enhance type assists. Ruby heart gives you power up. They're not entirely useless if you can find a way to use them properly and certain characters work well with these assist types.

dhcs:

amingo into charlie

qcb+pp, and let it ride out for a while to get some life. From here you can dhc to charlie with qcb+kk and it will connect. However, I like to do the qcf+kk. Its supposed to miss and the DHC causes the opponents sprite to fly into the air into OTG state. Then once you get that can get jupfwd+lk, jup+throw, relaunch or call tron, jupfwd+lk, banana kick crossup, launch.

Both are funky as hell.

crossups:

j.lk, j.mk seems to be his best xup series as well as his fatest hit boxes. J.rh and J.fp also cross up but don't hit nearly as fat.

[shoultzula]

infinites

yea thats right, he has a few of them. All of them are corner though :sad:, however he should have an infinite for every character size.

If you go on zachd.com and search for amingo, you'll see these infinite videos.

Theres one I think everyone knows about the s.lk, qcf+lp ball but he has resuper jump infinites in the corner which can be followed up into his vine super.

Basing this off how his corner infinite works, amingo should be able to do HELLA life in the corner. If he snaps out someone or kills a character in the corner, you should be able to do sj, qcf+lp. If they take the hit, the infinite should be free. If they block it, falling sj.lp sj.mp, land, super jump and infinite. I'm not quite sure on this. This is just a guess as of now but it sounds like it works.

Maybe mid screen, he can have something similar. Of course, if your opponent took your qcf+lp ball in the air, they can hit the ground and roll. Thats ok though becase amingo has follows up from that so its not entirely useless. I'm sure if they blocked it though, there could be some pretty deadly things in there if the sprite is going to be in the right spot. I'm using my imagination to think it through but its kinda late.

random ish

amingo's snap out 1 one hit but if you block it, theres like 2-3 hits that hit after it. I think it leaves him safe but didn't really test it today.

TK lp onion dash will flip them around on the 2nd and 3rd hit for some reason. Its not a cross up, the game gives you auto guard the thing is though, the 3rd hit can hit you backwards and flip your sprite around, and falling lk can ambigously xup or not depending where amingo is in your sprite. Put your attack in the middle of there sprite, and let marvel figure out what side it'll be on.

@ certain heights, you can fall down with sj.lk, sj.mp, land, superjump again for a combo. Applicable to midscreen.

after FS, call your helper, hcb+fp the onion bounce. The fp will cross through your opponent and put you on the opposite side. The same scenario with hcb+lp will not cross through and land in the front.

The baby cacti can flood the ground and force your opponent to jump. This is an ok strategy but for the most part, you just want to use them to cancel out from your noramls so you can play 3\4 screen pokes. Once you cancel out, you can try to smack them back into the ground so your baby cacti can do some work.

I was watching a charlie video today and charlie landed an unblockable with qcf+kk. His combo super as the a character was coming. This got me thinking that maybe amingo's qcb+pp could be done the same way if you could time it so they landed right in the middle of it.

for assists punish, s.lp+tron, s.fp. If your opponents point isn't in this combo, you can SJC off any of the s.fp hits and get away while tron combos.

s.lp, s.mp and s.lp, s.fp juggles for an AA. Maybe s.lp, s.mk works too but didn't test that today.

call tron, sj.lk, qcf+lp is a real good over head tool if you can master the overhead off a sj. If you fuck it up, your not stuck in NJ mode and still have the ability to onion dash and reposition.

AC SETUPS

amingo has a few options to take once he gets a launcher. sj.fp ender gives you FS. Sometimes, j.rh gives you neutral FS and other times it gives you regular FS. Don't really know why that works though. I think its based on which hits of the s.rh makes contact last and that last hit determines the FS properties. Neutral FS can be followed up wiff setups into overhead scenarios.

watching this guy MIKEP, whos probably the best amingo player i've seen, is usually ending his AC's with qcf+fp. This won't give you FS anything, it just causes OTG but thats what he's using. If your opponent just takes it, the onion can land on him with j.rh, relayer assist+mixup, if you roll it s.lp+tron, TK LP onion dash, mixup.

personally, I think they're all good but I haven't been playing him long enough to say which of the 3 is the best. and for shits and giggles, his throw is the best in the game lol. He extend his leg to wrap you up, and proceeds to punch you in the face. Gimme da loot nagga.

[RisunoMeijin]

A great option in my expeirience is after a launch TK the ball thing/ call Tron,
they land on top on trons 3rd hit and if they try to jab or anything they end up doing a standing or crouching normal, in which case you are already set up for a crossed up over head. From there you can either overhead, or do a crouching normal when you land.

Another thing worth mention is the range on his snapout, I catch 2x snapout with him alot.

Likewise, his standing FP is great for punishing assists with the TronPA.

If you call TronPA and do a short jump in you can do several things to force blocking mistakes. If you plant a cactus first you can break guard after a bit of blockstun.

-Jump in with Roundhouse is 3 hits in the air followed by a quick c.lk
-Jump in with lk, lk, is 2 hits in air followed by a quick c.lk
-Jump in with a late RH to whiff the last part and do a quick c. lk

-Plant cactus, call Tron, TK ball thingie (crossover), do a lk in the air on the way down from the TK, then crouching lk upon landing.

also, dash up s.lp, s.FP+Tron, dash up s.lp, s.FP+Tron is pretty good corner pressure, you might have to mess with it abit, but I remember pinning down REALLY well with something like this if the opponents AAA was gone, so check it out, it was worthwhile.

[shoultzula]

I really like amingo's snap out its just too bad you can't follow it up and get the assist kill for free. The weird thing about the snap out is I seen it hit more than once. Like the snap out is 2-3 hitter @ random I think.

I like amingo\tron, its dope and tron give him what he needs. The thing is though, you need an AA to have "proper" team chemistry but no AA gives you a safe dhc on block. Thats primarily the only thing wrong with amingo\tron.

So if you can't have proper team chemistry with tron, I wouldn't run it but thats me as a player. I would probably run something like amingo\sent\AA.

[New Era Outlaw]

Have you considered taking Sentinel for a whirl?
I find Amingo with J. FK to be a huge headache with Sentinel's Ground Assist.
If you wish, give Amingo/Sentinel/Tron Bonne a try and see what you can accomplish with that.

[shoultzula]

Have you considered taking Sentinel for a whirl?
I find Amingo with J. FK to be a huge headache with Sentinel's Ground Assist.
If you wish, give Amingo/Sentinel/Tron Bonne a try and see what you can accomplish with that.

Yes, for top tier amingo play I would run the squad you mentioned or amingo\sent\capcom. However, I like to combine low tiers with low tiers + tron to form a team.

I mainly got into low tiers to develop teams for low tier tourneys but if I wanted to go toe to toe with tops, I might think about adding tops to it to make it better overall. Amingo\sent is nasty by default.

[New Era Outlaw]

Ah, I see. Well, Tron's a good start, but you might need a projectile assist to cover Amingo as he goes for the gold.

How about Silver Samurai? Decent chip, and Amingo's Beanstalk HC can setup an opponent for Lightning.

[judge_rl]

MvC2 Basic Combo and Damage Encyclopedia:
*Combos were performed on Ryu (100% damage received)
*Reveals strengths of specials and supers and combos
*Shows how to combo specials and supers (most connects will focus on punches unless punches don’t offer a connect)
----------------------------------------------

Amingo

Special Moves:

Daichi no Kodoma (Grab)
Hits twice for 18pts (12, 6)
?

Daichi no Kodoma (Punch)
12pts
?

Daichi no Kodoma (Kick)
12pts
?

Kaze no Sakebi
Lp hits 3x for 18pts (4,4,10); hp hits 7x for 24pts (3,3,3,2,2,2,9)
*weird properties in the air (passes through on hit at times)
1) s.lp, s.mp, kns lp 28pts hp 31pts

2) s.lp, s.hp, kns (have to cancel s.hp early enough)
lp 23pts hp 33pts

3) j.lp, j.mp, kns lp 28pts hp 22pts

4) j.hp, kns lp 31pts hp 22pts

Midori no Kanki
Hits 3x for 18pts (4,4,10) w/ lp and 22pts (5,5,12) w/ hp

1) s.lp, s.mp, mnk lp 17pts hp 18pts

2) s.lp, s.hp, mnk lp 14pts hp 15pts

Hyper Combos:

Shokubutsu no Okite
43pts

1) s.lp, sno 48pts

2) s.lp, s.mp, sno 56pts

3) s.lp, s.hp, sno 53pts

Taiyou no Megumi
47pts

1) s.lp, cr.mp, tnm 46pts

[Tech Romancer]

taken from mapster's post/thread:

Even though i'm sure no one pays attention to this section, i'm posting this on the off-chance that atleast 1 person will notice it.

I recently discovered in a match on accident that Amingo has an unblockable(!) When an opponent is jumping at you, or after you knock an opponent down, perform Amingo's dancing flower super (QCB + PP). As soon as the flower touches the back of the opponent, DHC to any other super. The blocking opponent will get hit and bounce up a bit after the DHC, but will recover rather quickly. DHCing into supers such as Proton Cannon, HSF, Hailstorm, etc, will hit the opponent. Well there ya go, Amingo has an unblockable, and hell has officially frozen over.

If anyone doesn't understand what I said and would like a short video of the unblockable being done, hit me up on AIM under Mapster007 and i'll send it to you. Amingo4Life.

Why not just post it on youtube?

[Deathfist]

When I used to play Amingo, people would fall out of my air combos all the time. As long as they didn't block when I tried to put them back in a combo, I wouldn't care. Not only is it unpunishable, but it essentially creates a situation where you can reset them. I'll explain it all below...

One thing you can do is launch someone, and hold forwards and do your air combo. What always happens is they fall out of it. When they do, you hold towards them. If they're drifting away, you lk them while holding towards, and you'll get a cross-up and put them in a second air combo. If they drift away, then stop drifting away, stop holding forwards and drop in front of them. You don't have to wait till they hit the ground either, You can use the lights to get them off the ground, and light tiger knee dashball into them [after leaving an assist behind...]. Alittle gimicky, I know, but it's there.

What was kind of fun is using the dashball assist with Hulk or some other character that has a projectile super [My original team was Amingo, Hulk, Cable. Sucks, I know...]. If they get hit, you fire your super. If they block, you attack them with a weaker attack or rush them allowing Amingo to escape. From then on, it's attack, Amingo attacks, you attack, Amingo attacks. Imagine what this can do for Cammy, psylocke, or some character that has prolonged attack strings along the ground.

Basic combo I use...
Launch, lp, lk, mp, mk, lk, mk, hard dashball [light if they're in the corner as you can combo off that into all kinds of stuff...,]. If you're sure they won't roll, you can do a corner combo like dlk, dmp, light dashball, and otg them with ducking lk either into an air combo, flying screen them down into more beatdowns, or infinite them.

An interesting property of the Doom assist is that they're released from block stun in the middle of it. In other words, you can potentially plant a grab cactus timed to grab them while they're blocking Doom, and they could get snatched during that couple of frames. Try to imagine just how potentially mean that is not just in favor of Amingo, but any other character. Spiral [punch grab, metamorphosis super...,], Shuma, Strider, Possibly Megaman, and I wouldn't be surprised if some characters could combo off a blocked first half of the Doom assist that resulted in getting thrown. Hmmm, Maybe I can use this with my Cable. I cross them up, drop Doom, dlk, grab and throw, and they're long gone.

One thing I used to like doing to Cables with Amingo is dashing hardpunching the recovery of a viper beam. This can't be punished unless you get hit by an assist afterwards, and usually hits them [;people would stop viper beaming me near the same level as Amingo because of this...,].

Something else I like to do [kind of risky] is dlk, dhp, light dashball, repeat. Usually, you'll beat them to the punch after they block the dashball letting you keep doing this till they guardpush you away. Even then, you usually have the initiative. If you incorporate something like Doom or Sentinel into this, it can be a total pain in the ass.

[judge_rl]

I like amingo\tron, its dope and tron give him what he needs. The thing is though, you need an AA to have "proper" team chemistry but no AA gives you a safe dhc on block. Thats primarily the only thing wrong with amingo\tron.


Loving this thread. All the info is pretty on point and explained very well. Just don't understand your point here. What about Charlie-aa w/ qcf+PP as you said you used. Probably just forgot about it. Also, Cyc-aa w/ qcf+KK. Mando/Cable/Sonson/Akuma/Hayato/Captain America/Spidey/Morrigan/Cammy have been tested and work if you cover properly with Tron-y for the most of them as you DHC. Of course, the majority of these involve making contact w/ your opponent--given Tron-y--and you probably wouldn't want to suffer the pushblock into punish.

Also, I think Amingo benefits more with AC into FS (if not into x-up) rather than using his qcf+P, imho.

edit: Also, good stuff on noting how to take proper advantage of Amingo-B on your 1st page Shoultzula. 07' was hot for SRK Amingo.

edit2: Good shit to Beatsofdevil for noting that Zangief-a trick. Only thing is, if their character can truly duck Zangief, I see an assist punishing him. If they pushblock (which is a trick in itself given some characters would have to stand to do so and thus leave themselves open to dash up c.lk), then Zangief is left wide open mid-screen and Amingo's best option would be to sj uf to the rear...well, that or smart DHC or dash up snap given the situation. Deathfist, xxphilopiaxx you guys are all over the cacti in this thread =) Well done peeps, along with some other useful info from the other threads. I have just graduated from Amingo Amigo University. Moving on w/ the next part of my project on another day.

[Deathfist]

Randomly thought up Amingo teams...:

Amingo, Sonson/Capcom, Sentinel-y
-DHCing in Capcom's sword is always stable for the HSF in this situation. You're dead.

Amingo, Storm, Jin/Capcom/Ken/Sonson
-I was picking AA characters that have vertical supers so that they all combo when DHCing...].

Amingo, Hulk, Jin/Capcom/Megaman
-I got 18 or 19 wins in a row once with Amingo Hulk Jin, and Amingo Hulk Megaman. One was 19, the other was 18.

Amingo, Storm-a, Jin
-Dashballs with Storm-a, Storm-a in the middle of your ground chains to allow the dashball to vine super to work properly. When you DHC to Storm, then Jin, that's devastating. You can substitute Jin for Cyclops to have a better character. Jin's a better assist, but if you're fighting a Doom assist, it's useless and you'll need Cyclops. You get a frame cancel with Amingo first in any order. If you Blodia punch, you can otg them into a second one if they don't mash to get up faster.

Amingo, Doom.
-This is essentially the same as Amingo-Storm, but you lose the fast cancel Hail, and gain block damage in droves. My recommendations for the Middle character are Jin, Venom, Cyclops, Cable, and Sentinel.

This one's brutal...
Amingo-y, Ironman-b, Sentinel-y.
The concept is similar to Team Combofiend 1.0 [Magneto, Ironman, Sentinel...]
Amingo has 2 instant start-up supers. If you get hit by anything near the ground and he has meter, that's it. You're dead [;frame cancel / framekill anyone?]. Between tiger knee cross-ups via dashballs [leaving Ironman or Sentinel behind you, and any hit leading to a super, you're done. After the level 4-5 DHC, Ironman gets tagged back in to infinite the rest of your team to death. To make matters more brutal. With Ironman on point if you get hit by Amingo's dashball, you're eating a proton cannon, and if Sentinel is second, you're eating that as well. You can also bait the AHVB by sticking out limbs, and when he tries to shoot you, you can vertical super and DHC in Ironman.

1. Decide how you intend to do damage
-Is it a clean hit? What about a DHC? Are you content to deal chip damage?
2. Decide how you will accomplish this intention
-Via mix-ups, pure pinning strategies, etc...
3. Engineer the team.
-Understand that Amingo is probably going to require the most work to cover his vulnerabilities.

A word for those fighting against Amingo that I want Amingo players to eavesdrop in on:

P.S. Whatever you do when fighting Amingo, Don't jump on Amingo in any of these teams [Amingo-Doom is a possible exception, but even then depending on the third character, no.]. A smart Amingo player will let you get away with it all day to reinforce your bad habit, then vertical super you [at the last second point blank] to maximize damage. From there he'll DHC into something that would be safe if it is blocked, and potentially fatal if it hits.

It won't be guesswork either. He'll be studying your character's effective combo depth, waiting till you're there, and then vineblading your legs as he either hears you touch the buttons or sees your character's attack animation start. His vertical super is so fast, that as long you as Amingo are holding down, you can see the startup of most Jump ins [and punish it at will...,].

Unless they are via triangle jump you'll be able to react with the vertical super on reflex. He also goes flat as he starts increasing the chance of your jump in NOT hitting Amingo. Nearly all these teams I mentioned here have this in some way embedded in it. Unless I told you this now that this is how I am doing it you'd NEVER figure it out. Especially since it happens a MAXIMUM of twice a round [wow, 2 dead characters LOL].

I'll try to cover Doom later if I remember.

[eczangief]

^^^

good ish. really fun read. I'ma mess with the hallucinogenic cactus-man

[eczangief]

1. Decide how you intend to do damage
-Is it a clean hit? What about a DHC? Are you content to deal chip damage?
2. Decide how you will accomplish this intention
-Via mix-ups, pure pinning strategies, etc...
3. Engineer the team.
-Understand that Amingo is probably going to require the most work to cover his vulnerabilities.



also that is some smart stuff there. Simple, but important jumpoff point for building low tier monster squads.

I'd add something like---

4. What will you use for an AA? Does your point provide one solo or in conjunction with another assist or are you relying on an assist? Does that assist also function to maximize overall chemistry?

[judge_rl]

Amingo can tick his s.:lk: into a throw just as Magneto does with his s.:lp:. Very short hit stun and quick recovery move. Mix-up/assist opportunity on descent.

edit: j.:hp: would be disgusting if it had a true u, uf, f, df, d arc of a hitbox. It only appears to be df though...

[Deathfist]

also that is some smart stuff there. Simple, but important jumpoff point for building low tier monster squads.

I'd add something like---

4. What will you use for an AA? Does your point provide one solo or in conjunction with another assist or are you relying on an assist? Does that assist also function to maximize overall chemistry?

True. I did forget that part although if you look at the teams I mentioned nearly all of them have an AA of some sort. I'd just call an assist that would obstruct theirs while they jump in that leaves the jumping character untouched and vineblade at the last second. If you call anti air assists too much they'll start air blocking and counter-assisting all day. That's the last thing I want. I almost WANT them to attack me from the air. 100 times a match if possible. Jump ins are usually predictable [except triangle jumps that is...;] and readable. At some point they lose their character to a seemingly random Vine super [on reflex]. While they're busy chalking it up to luck [and thus falling for it over and over again...,], the reality is far more sinister. They've been had.

Capcom does wonders for Amingo because he can't chase down characters that are too high in the air. Better yet, the flyback from Capcom is not instant. You land a hit, you combo with a different assist that keeps them standing so that you can dashballXXVine and it combos properly, DHC in Captain sword, DHC in most any decent character and the victim will usually instantly die. Blackheart can be used this way, so can Capcom [the flyback effect of a Capcom hit isn't instant. that stun can be used to do this kind of thing...,] so can Storm and Cyclops. Sonson might be able to as well.

Properties of Amingo's standing hk?
-It's a knockback just like Magneto's standing hp. Hey, wait a minute...
-hk[hit confirm], Vineblade [whiffed], fast DHC HSF or Ironman, or Hail. Keep this in mind. Especially for Amingo-fiend.

Okay...
=Amingo, [Ironman-(b/a)/Gambit/Morrigan]<-- 2 of these...
-Untested, but follows the theory of DHCing for Amingo. All 3 of these guys supers can be made to work in some way with him.

-All 3 guys above have a super that hits the second the screen turns blue. Frame cancels are available in mass.
=Ironman, it's vine to proton cannon, and you have frame cancels.
if they get hit by Amingo's assist, that's a free proton cannon. Jab unibeam is unpunishable [except by alpha-counterXXAHVB, you can't AHVB it]if it's blocked and can be used to cover your assists.
=Gambit, same thing. The Royal Flush, into Morrigan's super off the vine. If Amingo is in the middle, just DHC past him and it should work. The projectile assist can possibly help the dashball to vine work properly. If they get hit by the dashball assist, you MIGHT be able to get a Royal Flush.
=Morrigan, you can do the same thing most likely. Vine to drop in the path of her beam super. If you don't want to whiff supers to get your DHCs to work, or if Amingo is getting in the way, tag him back in, and fight till he dies, can DHC someone to death, or keep using him as an assist till he either dies from a bad call, or wins the entire match himself. If your team order is screwed, chances are is it's because Amingo just DHC'd someone for really big damage. I'm not sure if Morrigan can beam super you if you get hit by the Amingo assist.

[judge_rl]

I'm not going to start a new thread since this one is already a comfy Amingo spot, but some basic Amingo starters for new players:

Notable Normals:

s.:hp: - good range, force a sj or jump in or etc.
s.:hk: - beat or trade with a jump in
j.:hk: - overhead mix-up...can hit more than once or just once to confuse how long an opponent should block standing before shifting to blocking low...try and follow up with c.lk or s.lp if you manage a hit as it offers little stun
c.:hk: - another useful poke that goes nearly 3/4 screen, force a jump-in, stuff assists, etc.
sj.lp - what you will be using air to air mostly if at all

Air to air on sj: Amingo does not have too much to rely on during sj if you are above or even in front of him...he can use qcf+:p: to try and hit you, but if you are above him, he has to just wait it out...if you have no air stall move, he can qcf+:lp: to hang longer than you and gain air advantage by falling with sj.:hk:

Air to air on nj: With no cover, he will mostly be using j.lp to anticipate jumps

Kaze no Sakebi H qcf + P (air)
-can only perform once in the air on sj
-can tiger knee to go through opponent or get in quick overhead or not
-basic forward propulsion given proper cover...dumb move to use in a 1v1 given it's slow recovery
-used to form both of his corner infinites
-good in retreating from a sjing opponent if they try and land on you or near you...be sure to plant appropriate assist behind you if you can to even employ some cross-up opportunities

Midori no Kanki H qcb + P
-mostly used as a cross-up tool (mentioned later)

Daichi no Kodomo (Tsukami) h qcb + K
-his most favorable cacti drop as it is unblockable
-can be used to cancel his long-reaching normals for successive pokes
-can be dropped behind him to give him something to leave for you to worry about as he sjs over you
-allows for some tricky unblockable set-ups...experiment and see what you like
-can only have 2 on-screen at a time

Daichi no Kodomo (Punch) h qcf + LK
-the other one
-marvel is mostly too fast for these to be a big threat anyway, so why not focus on dropping the grab unblockable ones when you do

Daichi no Kodomo (Kick) h qcf + HK
-the other one
-yeah...

Taiyou no Megumi qcf + KK
-good anti-air
-good frame-kill for a quick dhc
-it's been said that he has slight invinciblity on it's start up as he is just not there (so try this vs the first set of HSF drones into DHC or whatever else applicable)

Shokubutsu no Okite qcb + PP
-mentioned as being used in some unblockable set-ups...work on it and see if you can get anything useful from it in-play
-the flower can't be destroyed (so it bails through Tron's servbot's when she does her THC alone...who knows what else...apply as needed)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Assists, Variable Counters, And THCs

a: Life Up Fruit HP Midori no Kanki Taiyou no Megumi
-assist is not as useful given MvC2's fast pace
-decent variable counter vs jump-ins but no real follow up
-THC is same for all
-you can recall on hit

B: Defence Up Fruit HP Kaze no Sakebi Taiyou no Megumi
-ups your character's defense by 50%...very nice
-decent variable counter as he can cancel into his qcb+PP or qcf+KK as anti-air
-you can recall on hit

y: HP Kaze no Sakebi HP Midori no Kanki Taiyou no Megumi
-poor chip
-you can link before knockdown or OTG on hit
-forward attack
-makes no sense why the variable counter isn't the same...

Ground Throws: When close, b / f + HP
-doesn't allow for much of a throw mix-up being his only one
-when you do get it, you get ground advantage since they have to land

Mid-Air Throws: When close, any dir. but d / u + HP in air
-very easy tech, but recreates same situation as ground version
-won't see much of this

Knockdown Attack: Crouching HK
-hits front and back, so it is a good option when you employ a cross-up and are not sure of which side you will land on

Variable Attack: Jumping HK
-if it was multi-hitting like it's jumping equivalent, this would be beast

Snapback Attack: Standing HP
-nasty range, but experiment with actually performing a double snap into assist kill off of it...you need a pre-occupying assist (e.g., Doom-B, Blackheart-B, Cable-B, etc.)
-slow recovery

Amingo on launch:

Amingo can pursue you for the AC into FS into advantage or he can:

after connecting with a launch:

1) qcf+:lp: while dropping an appropriate assist behind them
2) qcb+:lp: forces them to block the opposite direction as they fall on it...if blocked correctly, usually a free throw...if not, you can link if you pick an appropriate assist that juggles off of it
3) sj. xx qcf+:lp: into overhead on the opposite direction or whiff overhead into relaunch
4) sj.:lp: xx qcf+:lp: the ball special whiffs and crosses up at a decent speed and lets you fall with sj.lk, sj.mk to combo into whatever...let's you drop something behind them as you launch for the reset on landing

---------

Amingo after FS:

if you cause FS w/...

sj. anything into sj.:hp: Amingo will dash up where you can
-overhead with j.:lk:
-cross up with qcb+:hp: leaving a trailing assist
-tick throw

uf sj.:lk:, sj.:mk:, sj.:hk: Amingo will fall onto you where he can
-qcf+:lp: and drift to whichever side he wants to hit you on
-fall whiffing sj.:hp: and hit you low or throw
-fall with sj.:hk: and make you block wrong and repeat

1 guardbreak to start off until you explore other options: j.:lp: xx qcf+:p:
if you drop certain assists as you j.:lp:, you can juggle afterwards

hit with s.:hk: and then cancel to qcf+:hp: and you will cross-up...try leaving an assist behind you to juggle off of

Basic Amingo :tup:

cred to Kao Megura for the movelist

[judge_rl]

Some well-balanced Amingo teams I played tonight:

Amingo-B/Storm-a/Psylocke-a
the trick to DHC from Storm back to Amingo after doing Storm's lighting storm is to use Psy's qcf+:2p: just to make it so that Amingo does his qcf+:2k: super right under the falling opponent.

Amingo-B/CptCommando-B/BBHood-a

Amingo-B/Cammy-a/Thanos-a

edit: just adding...

Amingo-B/Chun Li-B (aa?)/Doom-B
Amingo-B/Cyc-B/Doom-B
Amingo-B/War Machine-a (proj?)/Psy-a

[shoultzula]

for AA, amingo's s.rh is very good priority. Thnx to mr. ed who's a FL low tier player for telling me that years ago. It has awesome priority and it can plop them into tron. Great thing is that its still cancelable so you can do AA s.rh+tron, cancel homie.

Also his leaping flower move, hcb+p?, is good AA and slaps them into tron.

cactus\charlie\tron
cactus\cammy\tron
cactus\sonson\tron

cactus\sonson isn't that bad of duo. Sonson can do s.lp+amingo enhance\heal type, s.lk, s.fp, s.rh, wall run, grab the enhance\heal type, then either cancel monkey's off the wall then ADF, run up the wall and wall kick off it or simply fall off it. Pretty good but no safe dhc's on block.

[judge_rl]

Some good Amingo duos based on s.hp xx DHC frame-kill alone:

Amingo/xx/3rd

xx:

Felicia
Captain Commando
Wolvy
Anakaris
War Machine/Iron Man
Cyclops
BBHood€€€€
Ryu
Sabretooth
Gambit
Cable
Ruby
Akuma
Charlie
Blackheart
Jin
Anakaris
Hayato
Captain America
Spiderman
Juggernaut
Venom
Doom
Morrigan
Bison
Cammy
Strider
Rogue
Sentinel
Thanos
Storm
Chun Li

edit: another incentive to drop grab cacti whenever possible would be to allow you to do cross-ups if you were to ever get knocked down. when Amingo safe rolls, he will put the cacti behind the opponent and they will still be heading in their direction. it sort of works like Jill's zombies, but this one you have to already have on screen and you have to be the one rolling lol

[judge_rl]

Amingo/xx/Tron-y is crack. I'm going to need you to stop mentioning that duo Shoultzula. Thanks :tup:

I played Amingo-B/Ryu-a/Tron-y today and it was too much fun!

[Vlad Marcus]

my favorite team is amingo/sonson/ruby Because with amingo do not need assists
and ruby-sonson is a good Strategy

[eczangief]

anybody who can jump + Tron is a pretty good duo :lovin:

[shoultzula]

amingo\tron pretty much needs an AA that can get in clean, and doesn't need the advantage of an AAA. So characters like charlie, sonson, morrigan, cammy, cyke are pretty much going to be the best version of amingo\tron. Not only do the dhc's work but said characters are very good with tron.

amingo as an assist isn't exactly the best thing ever. He's really hard to use effectively but mixup runs stuff like aming\colossus\tron or amingo\sent\tron both gaining defense up.

Think about it, amingo giving defense up to colossus\tron once colossus has mega armor? he's going to do some damage. Then sent\amingo can gain defense up with proper spit checks, fly cancel. Both with defense up aren't going anywhere.

amingo\sent\cap is more of a sent team but if you can maintain that defense up, regularly w\o giving up positioning, its very hard to stop sentinel. Its basically sentinel powered the fuck up.

[eczangief]

D-Up collosus, thats some smart shit

[Deth-Scyanyde]

Reading all this is making me want to start using this Cactuar wannabe...seriously...

[judge_rl]

Dependent upon who he is up against, I agree with Shoultzula that Amingo does not need an aaa just because he has a decent aa normal and he is not slow as fuck like, say, Thanos (not hating, as I play big T, but just spitting truth). The thing is, as I am sure everyone knows, is that each team has a limitation...as well as strengths. Nowadays though, aaa pretty much come with the territory.

There are certain teams where Amingo will be able to get them to the corner easy with simple stuff like dash up into s.:hp: + horizontal or some sort of assist with forward holding power for zoning, cacti cancel, dash up jump in blockstring into s.:hp: repeat, inserting a qcf+:p: when necessary to cover a gap before assist connects. Then there are certain teams where Amingo's s.:hp: and mostly all other attacks make him a liability. His range is good, but as Shoultzula mentioned and it's pretty obvious to see once you start playing with him, his s.:hp: contains some of his character sprites where he will either beat, trade, or lose to stuff. On the other hand c.:hp: is not like that at all. This is a good idea when fighting teams that use invincible aas.

I recently ran teams like:

Amingo-B/Akuma-aa/Doom-B
Amingo-B/WarMachine-a/Colossus-aa (where I would usually play it as Colossus/Amingo/WM)

The key is to realize that Amingo has good mid-screen range and he is easy to be mobile with, but his range can be a liability when someone is playing a keepaway or trying to punish your pokes rather than trying to get in.

I also like Amingo/Colossus/Tron, but I realize that it is one of those teams that is mostly an in-your-face team...I wish Colossus' aa had invincible start-up (nevertheless, WM loves that inf set-up). I find that one of the easiest ways to get your d-Up with Colossus is to just s.:lp: repeats to stall or after a hit connect into KD. It all depends on what your opponent can dish out as far as punishment really. Try saving the 3rd slot for whoever your opponent picks if you are trying to help the Amingo/Tron duo out. Think on the characters they have and, plain and simple, counter-pick to make your chances stronger. There are some solid choices if you don't want to take that route. This is what I usually do, being I don't like blatantly counter-picking. If I lose to an obviously abusive strat though, no doubt. The 3rd slot (when I say this I actually mean the 2nd, but yea) will be a counter-pick that offers Amingo some horizontal zoning whether it be left-right or down-up or whatever other angle (e.g., Marrow-expansion I believe ub-df); a pretty effective frame kill; and a character that uses meter well. If they pair with Tron effectively or even strengthen her point game, the merrier. That's Amingo/Tron, but it applies to any team that I play really. Blah Blah Blah Yea Yea

Amingo got dat grass flow.

edit: I recently started running Amingo/Anakaris-throw. Pretty much, if Amingo ever gets you to block a s.:hp: + Anakaris-throw, after he is done, you pretty much have to just duck and call assist. If Amingo ever connects with a s.:hp: he can just as well cancel into a cactus and let you recover from hitstun in time to get grabbed. Also, combo into s.:hk: + Anak-throw where, again, they can only duck or call assist. If their assist is anyone like Mando-aa where it doesn't cover just above them, then Amingo gets a close attempt to overhead with a j.:lk: into whatever if they don't react fast enough to avoid the grab and avoid eating j.:lk:. If you try to dash back, dash forward, jump, super jump, blah blah Anakaris grabs you, does his jingle, and slams you into Amingo's vine super. This set-up is free 50-60% health given 1 bar. Pretty neat as the distance required of this set-up pretty much leaves both Amingo and Anak fairly safe to counter-call. This safety makes it ok to have Anakaris 2nd with some sort of viable aa 3rd or so. Anak offers a decent framekill for Amingo with his b,f+:2p: super. Not too shabby when played well.

[Deathfist]

Remember what I said earlier about Amingo and his vine super vs jump ins? Remember the part about the Vineblade [Taiyou no Megumi qcf + KK] not being good against triangle jumpers?

This is more horrifying than I thought. I have to recant the triangle jump part. Vineblade [Taiyou no Megumi qcf + KK] can also be used to fry triangle jumps as well.

The last time I used Amingo [chosen completely by accident late last month], this is exactly what happened. A Magneto player super or normal jumped point-blank to me, so I fired the super and dammed near killed him when I DHC'd in Sentinel.

That's too fucking funny.

[judge_rl]

A Magneto player super or normal jumped point-blank with me, so I fired the super and dammed near killed him when I DHC'd in Sentinel.

That's too fucking funny.

? With you? What do you mean, b/c, obviously, Amingo doesn't have air supers...You must mean he Nj or sj towards you and got hit with the vine super and then ate your DHC to Sent's HSF. If he sj'ed, he must have AD/D or DF with :hp: or :hk: and then ate the vine super to get that much damage, b/c the very tip isn't too excruciating. Good job on the timing of that specific DHC btw lol It can be tricky

[eczangief]

Dependent upon who he is up against, I agree with Shoultzula that Amingo does not need an aaa just because he has a decent aa normal and he is not slow as fuck

Nah, if you read that again, what he meant is that Amingo needs an AAA, who when on point, doesn't require an AAA of their own.

Haha, and Death is sayin he punished a tri-jump happy Mag with qcfKK.

Amingo/Anakaris? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[judge_rl]

Nah, if you read that again, what he meant is that Amingo needs an AAA, who when on point, doesn't require an AAA of their own.

Haha, and Death is sayin he punished a tri-jump happy Mag with qcfKK.

Amingo/Anakaris? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Shoultzula can be found for saying that Amingo/Tron doesn't need an aa and then again for saying that they do. I understand where he is coming from being that it is totally situational but it is kinda funny when you read his sum posts about it lol Thanks for the assist though.

Deathfist had an interesting method of introducing the point to you early, and then letting you apply it in his situation when he talked about it later, so it caught me off a bit. I gotcha.

Thnks

[Deathfist]

? With you? What do you mean, b/c, obviously, Amingo doesn't have air supers...You must mean he Nj or sj towards you and got hit with the vine super and then ate your DHC to Sent's HSF. If he sj'ed, he must have AD/D or DF with :hp: or :hk: and then ate the vine super to get that much damage, b/c the very tip isn't too excruciating. Good job on the timing of that specific DHC btw lol It can be tricky

I fucked up the wording. Basically, I said to myself that the next time he got that close to me on the ground I'd block low and burn any triangle jump with the vine super. This is one of those rare situations where having a decent Magneto can blow up in your face. He leaves the ground, you super, he flies into it. OUCH.

Had he actually been a shitty Magneto that can't triangle jump than it might have been blocked, or he'd airdash somewhere else to land faster endangering Amingo as the vine super misses. [Oh well, DHC to Sentinel...].

I edited the post to reflect this.

[judge_rl]

It's not that serious, I was just confused and making sure I understood. After your comment I checked out how tricky the DHC from Amingo's qcf+:2k: to Sent's HSF and it's not that bad actually. It is almost the same fashion as the popular Storm>Sent DHC: just as the character's body begins to turn over and fall downward, you DHC (of course, if your opponent doesn't have much health left anyway just play it safe with qcf+:2p:). The only thing with Amingo is he lifts them higher so you have to pause just slightly. I'm familiar with the Storm>Sent height, so it didn't take too long to adjust the height difference by eye. Decent damage too. With Tron-y though, the only way I would play Sent after Amingo is if I played the team as Tron-y/Amingo-B/Sent-y which I do. Good stuff.

edit: On another note, I played the Amingo/Anak and realized I wouldn't seriously adopt the duo w/o someone along the lines of Cyclops (although other aas would work, but as a point force and basic DHC option, Cyc kinda takes the lead).

[Deathfist]

Just a minor thing... If you call an assist, you should usually use a dashing hp. It will cover your assist so that it will escape.


This is off topic. My question is if we can find a way to abuse this with Amingo.

Megaman with Jin-b assist mid-screen guardbreaking tactic [and yes, I have done this...]

1]Start charging the buster. Any amount will do as long as it's red.
2]Opponent jumps at you.

3]Call Jin beta, and walk backwards.
If they...
-block it, buster XX Hyper-Megaman. The freeze frame traps them and they get guardbroken by the growth phase. Also, any assists are likely to get shot, miss, etc...
-get hit by Jin, you superjump and release the buster really low to the ground, and cancel it to Hyper-Megaman forcing them to block it far enough away that it combos in the air.
-If they block it, they fall out of hitstun and get shot by the hyper Megaman
-If they get hit, the charged buster will combo at a full screen's range.
-If they take the first hit, then guardpush, odds are they'll get shot anyways [unsure about this part...

Why am I mentioning something for Megaman-Jin in an Amingo thread? It's simple. 2 reasons...
1. Amingo and Jin work well together for DHC purposes.
2. I am relatively sure you can find SOME way to do something like this with Amingo-Jin to someone [albeit not as extreme...]. My only question is how.

[shoultzula]

I know a little bit about marvel. Most of my knowledge comes from strider related material. When it comes to new characters like spidey\amingo, I'll figure some stuff out but not all.

Amingo on point wants to use an AA but he can take the loss on that and still manage. However, you're AA\ mid game character can't bank on an AA so that means the mid game character must be able to use one of their normals for high priority counter hit.