SFA3: All about Zangief

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Since the A3: Everthing thread has become unmanageable for individual character help I've deicded to take Zangief and give him his own home. These posts came from all over. Some from the A3: Everything thread and a lot from salvaged A3 threads before the SRK forums blew up. I'll try to organize the sections into semi-relevant pieces and always give credit to the original posters.

Quick Summary
General Strategies
V-ISM Specifics
Fighting Dhalsim
Other Match-ups
Miscellaneous

There's also a lot of stuff on fighting against Zangief and if there's a big enough interest we can post it here also.

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Quick Summary

This post is here by me to handle the common questions that come every up now and then in the A3: Everything thread. In no particular order:

Resources

http://www.shoryuken.com/features/s000329.shtml
SRK's guide to maximizing your spinning pile driver range. This is very important for all Gief players to know and if you have not read it yet you should do so now.

http://www.shoryuken.com/features/s000602.shtml
Zangief's kattobi cancel. If you're interested in V-Gief you should read this.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/game/11395.html
Under In-Depth FAQs lies JChen's A3 Systems Guide. Contains a lot of great information least of which is an "Off The Ground" section that pertains to V-ISM Zangief.

http://shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?
The previously mentioned A3: Everything thread. Though more of a free-for-all A3 discussion than coherent strategy guide, there is still a lot of activity and people who are willing to answer questions on anything Alpha 3.

Spinning Pile Driver Ranges

Quick list of ranges taken from the above SPD guide for reference. In pixels:

Button Full Range Pre-jump
Jab: 84 68
Strong: 80 64
Fierce: 76 60
Kick (any): 64 56


Popular V-ISM Combos

These are just the generic V-ISM Zangief combos since a lot of people tend to just ask, "I need VC's for Geif." For more detailed descriptions and analysis see the V-ISM Specifics section.

[VC1]: KKK Lariat -> FP Banishing Flat -> [ (whiff) C.SK * FP Banishing Flat ] (repeat)

Note: This VC is very modifiable. It can be VC1, VC2, or VC3. The crouching kick can be of any strength or even omitted if you have the timing. Corner options discussed below.

[VC1]: KKK Lariat -> S.FP -> [ (whiff) FP Banishing Flat * S.FP ] (repeat)

Note: This VC is considerably more elegant and damaging than the first. It also can be VC1, VC2, or VC3. The whiffed Banishing Flat can also be done w/ SP, which helps with the timing by allowing you to use two fingers for the punches.

Corner Options: When you reach the corner you have some choices.

S.RK (repeat)

Zangief can juggle with repeated roundhouses in the corner. There's a rhythm to it.

FP Banishing Flat (repeat)

You can actually keep them up in the air with the Banishing Punch if you slow it down enough.

Anti-air Note: It's worth mentioning that for anti-air the Lariat can be air-blocked under certain circumstances. To combat this some people start the VC with a JP Banishing Flat, though it's considerably more difficult as you have to worry about the controller motion and the jump-in angle.

The other VC is sometimes known as the glitch VC or the three 360+K VC. This VC is pretty difficult and only works under certain situations. You have to be on the left side of the opponent (in game, not controller side). It only works in the arcade version. You also need at least 75% meter for all 3 grabs.

[VC3]: 360 + K -> (otg) 360 + K -> (whiff) JP Banishing Flat * 2 -> (otg) 360 + K.

Note: I'll try to keep this brief. It's all in the first 360. You have to hit the kick button at the very last possible period of your VC activation. I lost the technical data on the window, but shoot for the last possible frame of your activation (chi gathering) before you start the VC. If you get it Zangief will do the suplex but land practically on top of the opponent when done. You'll know if you get it because the spin will be a little funky.

After that grab them off the ground again. Then go sacrifice something to aid in the 3rd 360 since it's all luck at that point.

Note: And since everyone asks, no this cannot be done off a kattobi cancel. The first suplex has to be performed during the activation period. By the time you're kattobing across the screen you've already lost that window.

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General Strategy

Posted by jchensor on 05:24:2001 05:44 AM:

Let's just do a start-up of strategies here... If you want to play Zangief, you can't rely on tick throws. Actually, once you play Zangief a lot, you start to learn that Tick Throws are about 5% of your SPD opprtunities. You have to learn how to maximize Zangief's SPD range, or else you simply cannot win as effectively as possible.

Once you do that, 95% of your SPDs will be just walk-up or jump-in SPDs. Learn his basic ground game: Crouching Fierce, Crouching Roundhouse, Crouching Jab, Standing Forward, and the Kick Lariat... Learn how to use those moves properly (their roles will be discussed in a later post). Once you learn those in a good ground game, you'll open up the SPD game. If the enemy becomes worried about attacking (thanks to the Kick Lariat), you have a much easier time walking up and SPDing the enemy.

But the one thing you'll learn about 'Gief is the magical Jump distance. There is a perfect distance at which, if you Jump at the enemy, VERY few Normal Moves can hit you (outside of stuff like Cody's Stand Roundhouse). And right when you land, you can reach the enemy with a Jab SPD (extended range) and a Jumping Fierce will also reach the enemy. So if you jump at this distance, you can grab a LOT of people with SPDs. Otherwise, jump with Jumping Fierce to get enemies to block. Very few characters can stop it from this distance.

The main way you can get punished is an anti-air V-ism. You can lose up to 80% from a good anti-air V-ism. However, outside of V-Isms, there is almost no way anyone can really do THAT much damage to you outside of Supers. But, Supers and V-Isms both have the same weakness: Start-up. The Chi-gathering for either one is a dead giveaway. Especially for V-Isms. If you see a V-Ism get activated to anti-air you, respond with your own V-Isms in the air, then nail them with a Jumping Jab or Short or something, land and SPD them in the V-Ism to combo.

So once you get good at walk-up SPDs and master that Jump-in distance, you can land yourself a LOT of SPDs. Jumping with Zangief is by far safer than ANY other character in Alpha 3. And never forget that his Splash works wonders on people who don't have good anti-airs at all.

I'll get into the poking and ground game a bit more in detail next post...

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Posted by jchensor on 07:18:2001 06:19 AM:

The ground game consists of small Crouch Jab pokes, Stand SHort, Stand Forward, Crouching Roundhouse, and Crouch Fierce MOSTLY. Other moves can be used... THe Banishing Flat can be used occasionally, for example, to beat things like Sagat's kicks. Also, Kick Lariat is still the ultimate anti-poke, even in Alpha 3. Crouch Fierce is a good space controller, which allows you get passed that "far range" and move in closer. Stand Forward is a good poke. Crouch Roundhouse will catch people off gaurd occasionally, and Crouching Jab is a good poke up close. But all of these things really just help Zangief get in close enough to do one of two things...

First is walk up SPD. Walk-up Jab SPD (using the Whiffed Jab technique) makes Zangief REALLY scary. John Choi does this VERY well and efficiently. Very scary. ^_^ Learn the whiffed Jab technique, and learn the distance. Once you get the enemy scared to anti-poke you thanks to your Ground Game, you can walk-up SPD more often than you think.

Second thing is to just jump in. Learn the magic distance, the one you referenced. The distance is about the max range you can jump from to land a Jumping Fierce. A little bit closer than that makes it so that you can Punch them with Fierce, or land and SPD thm. The other benefit of this distance is that anti-airs (Dragon Punches, Crouch Fierces, etc.) will in fact completely miss you. There's really no other way to properly describe the magic distance... Just experiment with it, and you'll eventually learn it.

Save your Custom Combo as an Anti-Custom Combo, for the most part. Use it if you've got a clear anti-air V-Ism set-up, but otherwise, jump in, and if the enemy tries to VC you with an Anti-Air V-ism, respond with your own V-Ism and blow through their attack with a combo into SPD.

For the Custom, the Standing Fierce one is best. Better transition into corner combo and does more damage. HARDER, but still better to learn. And yes, you CAN Air-Block the Lariat. I've heard that in Japan, players start the Custom with a Jab Banishing Flat instead, which canNOT be Air Blocked. And I think if you do with the right timing, you can nail the enemy before they can nail you with your invincibility period.

And I THINK you can Combo the Jad Banishing Flat after a Defensive Crouching Forward, but that's a bit tougher to do, since you have to go from Defensive Crouch into a DP motion. No "simple" way to do the combo.

Anything you'd like me to go into more depth on?

- James

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Posted by Flint3125 on 08:23:2001 01:20 PM:

Gief in A3... help.

Alright, I'm really getting into A3. I love using Gief. A few weeks ago someone told me about a number of people using X-Gief because he can't be guard-broken. Is this an advantage? I can usually get in and land SPDs consistently, but I'm pretty one-dimensional in the game. What are some set-ups for it? Crouch-cancels? V-Ism combos? etc...

p.s. Will T-Hawk be any good in A3upper? I love using him in ST.

Posted by omni on 08:23:2001 04:23 PM:

In the beta of A3, Xism had no guard meter, but every version you have played Xism has a guard meter, therefore gief can be guard broken. I don't know who told you that one...

I played X Gief in the very beginning cause he does so much damage and you baically only need one button (fierce), but now I play nothing but V and sometimes A when I'm bored.

I personally think V is the best gief in the game cause you have so many options. A is good cause of the damage you get (it gets frustrating landing 8 billion jab spds with v and still only doing 50% to the opponent) but overall A doesn't have as many options when you get to a higher level of play.

You NEED to learn Jab SPD tactics. My main game with Zangief these days is nothing but jumping from this one specific range, that range being if I do jumping fierce (the flying superman thing) then that will force the opponent to block and or be hit, and if I press nothing while in the air, i can land and do jab spd and grab the opponent if they do nothing.

The technique that I use every single time I go for Jab SPD's is this:

Do the spd joystick motion then press Jab with the middle finger then 'drum' the Jab button with your index finger IMMEDIATELY. What happens is that you get a standing Jab (whiffed) buffered into Jab SPD. We wrote an article on this which you can read more about by clicking on the articles up above. Trust me, it's a good thing to learn.

The good thing about this is that you are jumping from a distance where it's really really hard for the opponent to hit you, yet you get to do damage via the jumping fierce or the max range jab spd.

Once the opponent gets frustrated and starts attacking you, then you can kick it and either play stndard counter games or go for a vc. At really high levels, it's so hard to land a vc though, so I never ever VC unless the opponent vc's first. At B5 when BAS was playing VAkuma, he basically never VC'ed unless it was something completely and utterly guaranteed (like when they through a fireball) or he'll VC after the opponent VCs. I like to VC in the very beginning of the 1st round, cause I can gain a big lead and build up meter during the rest of the round so I can start off with 50% or more for 2nd round.

Zero 3 upper sucks, don't play it. Thawk sucks too in it.

Good luck,

Derek Daniels

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Posted by Flint3125 on 08:23:2001 04:50 PM:

Thanks everyone.

So what you're saying Omni is the trade-off for the range increase in the JSPD is worth the damage decrease? What about the Burning Glove technique on trying to get in on an opponent? A3 Upper sucks, huh? That's not good.

Posted by omni on 08:24:2001 04:42 PM:

Yeah, the Jab SPD is totally worth the damage tradeoff. It serves two purposes to be honest. The first is that it's basically free damage. Granted it's not a lot...but you are at least doing something where the opponent isn't.

The second thing that it does is more mental than anything else. For the past 10 billion years, Zangief's SPD has done a gang of damage and the opponent knows this. So when they get hit by a SPD, they are used to thinking, 'fuck - i just got hit by this high damaging move, i gotta do something now' and start doing stupid stuff. Plus, people just hate to be hit by this thing. Doing like 2 or 3 in a row, even though you are doing essentially no damage - it makes the opponent wake up and start trying to attack.

The green hand to get in on the opponent? Hrm...it's okay I guess. I only really use it for anti air and a few other things. It can get you killed in a lot of situations.

Yeah, upper sucks. No one plays it at SHGL. When BAS was at B5, I was talking to him about upper and he's all, 'upper? it sucks'. Then I go, 'what about pro?' and he's all, 'capcom vs. snk pro?? it sucks'. Seems like no one likes it.

Vs. V Akuma? It's a good matchup. The general strategy that most gief players is to do nothing but jump towards akuma no matter what. Even if you get hit, get up and keep jumping. You do more damage and akuma has a good chance of being damaged by 8 billion jumping fierces. I prefer to jump and keep my fingers over custom just in case they custom while also hitting fierce. So that way while I'm jumping if Akuma tries to anti air vc me, I can vc instead of hitting fierce. It's a gamble, don't get me wrong. But if you get really good at Zangief's custom, then it's a gamble worth taking IMO.

Derek Daniels

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Posted by Flint3125 on 08:24:2001 05:14 PM:

Am I going to be beat out by a DP though? And can you be more specific about the range on the jump? Do you land almost right in front of them?

One last thing (for this post), is the VC Fierce, BF, Fierce, BF, Fierce, BF with a finishing SPD? Let me know and again, thanks a bunch. This is awesome.

Posted by omni on 08:24:2001 06:06 PM:

You don't want to land next to them, if you did, you would be doing fierce spd. You want to land at the max range of Jab SPD. If you click here:

http://www.shoryuken.com/features/s000329.shtml

There is an article about it for more information. Yeah, I know the video link isn't working. I'll crack the whip on javi and get it going.

So yeah, you want to land like at the tip of a shoto's low forward. At this range, your jumping fierce still hits, but there are very few things the opponent can hit you with. When you land they have to do something, if not they get jab spd'ed. Things they can do is jump or get off the ground with a special such as hurricane kick, flash kick, etc. Since dragon punches have a frame where they are on the ground, I've even heard, 'shoryuken' and grabbed Ryu anyways - but don't count on this ^_^.

You can jump in and VC through the uppercut also, so don't forget that.

The main VC that I do is VC3 (Fierce+Roundhouse activation), Kick Lariat (it's better to start off with the green hand cause they can airblock the lariat, but not the green hand), then cancel the Kick Lariat with a standing fierce (hits), cancelled into a whiffed fierce hand, standing fierce, whiff hand, standing fierce, whiff hand, etc.

There are a variety of enders, ranging from repeated standing roundhouse kicks, to another lariat then whiff hand, otg rbg, etc. Just take a look at some of the vc's that James Chen has done here on srk, check out the vc's over at www.cornertrap.com and check out the ones on BAS's page - i forget the url though. we had it our front page at one - it's the one with the character selection screen.

Derek Daniels

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Posted by omni on 08:24:2001 06:06 PM:

You don't want to land next to them, if you did, you would be doing fierce spd. You want to land at the max range of Jab SPD. If you click here:

http://www.shoryuken.com/features/s000329.shtml

There is an article about it for more information. Yeah, I know the video link isn't working. I'll crack the whip on javi and get it going.

So yeah, you want to land like at the tip of a shoto's low forward. At this range, your jumping fierce still hits, but there are very few things the opponent can hit you with. When you land they have to do something, if not they get jab spd'ed. Things they can do is jump or get off the ground with a special such as hurricane kick, flash kick, etc. Since dragon punches have a frame where they are on the ground, I've even heard, 'shoryuken' and grabbed Ryu anyways - but don't count on this ^_^.

You can jump in and VC through the uppercut also, so don't forget that.

The main VC that I do is VC3 (Fierce+Roundhouse activation), Kick Lariat (it's better to start off with the green hand cause they can airblock the lariat, but not the green hand), then cancel the Kick Lariat with a standing fierce (hits), cancelled into a whiffed fierce hand, standing fierce, whiff hand, standing fierce, whiff hand, etc.

There are a variety of enders, ranging from repeated standing roundhouse kicks, to another lariat then whiff hand, otg rbg, etc. Just take a look at some of the vc's that James Chen has done here on srk, check out the vc's over at www.cornertrap.com and check out the ones on BAS's page - i forget the url though. we had it our front page at one - it's the one with the character selection screen.

Derek Daniels

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Posted by Gunter on 08:25:2001 06:27 AM:

Okay, I'm joining this thread a little late, so forgive me. Usually SRK is just a bunch of ppl wondering what team in MvC2 is top tier, and other ppl saying that whatever team A-san said is top tier is NOT top tier. Oh, and then of course the ppl who then ask James Chen who HE thinks is top tier. So I've been avoiding.

But when it comes to Gief threads, I simply can't pass them up.

For the majority of my A3 career (which is since its debut until B5), I have been an A-Gief user. I still have difficulty conceding that V-Gief is better. I think they are at best, equal. Omni covered V-Gief pretty excellently. The only thing I would not agree with is his "vs. V-Akuma" strategy. Since B5, Choi and I have been playing this matchup a LOT, and although I think the majority of my wins against him were charity wins, I do know that jumping AT V-Akuma will get you nowhere. The most annoying thing to Choi was my anti-air jumping jab. This is without a doubt Zangief's BEST anti-air, if for no other reason than that you are NOT ON THE GROUND while performing it. Hence, you are less susceptible to being combo'd. When fighting Akuma, you should concentrate on your ground game, as according to Choi Gief wins that... You do this mainly by s.forward, s.short, and most of all STANDING FIERCE. S.Fierce is especially good after a knockdown, as many ppl like to walk forward or jump as they get up. The Fierce will hit them as they do so. Once Akuma takes to the air, jump straight up and jab him. Worst case scenario - he blocks it. Otherwise, you are hitting him out of just about anything he tries to hit you with. Other than that little strategy, follow omni's advice for everything, as his Zangief is eons better than mine (damn that max range SPD!).

Now for A-Gief info. I still consider A-Gief to be a worthy tournament selection. Offensively I think he is a better choice than V-Gief. His ground game is entirely identical to V-Gief except for one move - V-Gief's toward+strong hop. That is an excellent move, but you can make do without it. By making do without it, you are now doing more damage per hit than V-Gief does (as is true for all A-ism characters when compared to their V-ism counterparts). Since omni explained how to use V-Gief so well, I'll just go into how to make use of Gief's supers when using him in A-ism.

At lower levels of play, you will more than likely see a lot of Kick Supers with Zangief. While this is definitely a recommended tactic, you'll notice that at lower levels, they are not comboing into it. If not combo'd it is totally escapable. I can think of two extremely good situations to land the Kick Super -

1) Jumping Anti-Air Hit (e.g. Jab)
2) Ground Anti-Air Hit (pref. s.jab... although c.jab also works)

For 1) you will be taking advantage of the crouch cancel feature that has ruined A3. Remember that when counter hitting an opponent air-to-air, you can prevent them from teching away by not making your sprite go through a neutral frame. You can do this by doing any of 3 moves the instant you land - special, super, or CROUCH. Crouching and then jumping again lets you get another hit "FOR FREE!" You can also do a DP motion just before you land, and then hit Fierce as you touch the ground, and you can combo an inescapable Green Hand for another hit (this is what I tend to do 99.9% of the time). However, the best and most non-ghetto thing to do (hence the thing I tend NOT to do... doh) is to pump a double-FB motion just before you land... then hitting the appropriate kick button with which to combo a Kick Super. Because you are bypassing neutral frames, the opponent cannot tech out, and it is a free grab for tons of damage.

For 2) the reason I say to use s.jab is so you can do the FB motion-Jab-FB motion-Roundhouse sequence to guarantee your super. Zangief has no FB+punch special move. Hence, if you DO FB+punch, all you get is a s.jab. IF you anti-air with this, AND IF it counter hits, you can then continue into FB+Roundhouse for an inescapable Kick Super.

But I don't do either of those options. Many people say I don't because I am infamous for being Ghetto. I will almost always footsweep a whiffed DP/FK when a Fierce SPD would be better... and if I do an SPD at ALL, it's usually a Jab one even at point blank range. I'm just ghetto like that.

However, my favorite usage of the super bar is anything BUT ghetto.

You will rarely ever see me use the Kick Super. Only about 0.1% of the time am I using the Kick Super. 0.4% of the time my bar is for Alpha Counters. 99.5% of the time, it is for FABs.

The simplest way to land an FAB is to jump in, do the motion in the air, and land while pressing the appropriate punch. You can whiff a move in the air if you want, though that is mainly to A) pre-counter their move, and B) fake them out.

The next simplest way is to tick into it. A favorite trick of mine which I stole from James Chen's match on the B4 tape (Chensor taught me Zangief before B3, in the good old A2 days...), is to beat their wakeup with a c.short and buffer into an FAB from that. In the corner, if your opponent jumps after the short, you can anticipate that and switch to a Kick Super, but that's another story.

Now for my favorite trick with A-Gief. "My Trick". Actually, it isn't my trick, but simply something I picked up in my training time in the 2 1/2 years I lived in Japan. However, since I've never seen anybody else in the US use it (prolly cuz everyone else in the US is using V-Gief... except for Chocobo and his damn Crazy No-ism Gief! Grrr...), I am claiming it as My Trick -

Anti-Air Final Atomic Buster.

This is easily the best usage of a super in the game, style-wise. Vs. any air hit that hits HIGH, and ESPECIALLY shotos Air HKs, whiff a c.short and use that animation to anchor you while you do a 720+punch. If timed correctly, they will land in your FAB. You can also do this after a whiffed DP (esp. a blocked Sakura Fierce DP... but you'll probably only see that situation if your opponent misjudged how much energy/guard meter you had left), but anti-air is MUCH more flashy.

-David Alexander S. Dial-

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Posted by mondu_the_fat on 03:03:2002 03:15 AM:

It's hard to label Gief as being rushdown/turtle. Most of the time he's positioning for a max range SPD, which means staying out of range for almost anything the opponent can do. Z-Gief's kick super (especially right after jabbing your opponent out of the air) smells turtlish, but landing an FAB is not. V-Gief's main VC is definitely a turtle tactic, since there is almost no way to land it offensively other than being preceeded by a deep cross-up Body Splash, while that triple Siberian Piledriver VC is, almost by definition, a rush-down strat.

About the Honda thing: One thing about SFZ3 (and all SFs, but Z3 is prominent; EX is worse) is that attacks will not connect given a certain distance from the ground. For example, trying to get Zangief's jumping FP or most weak attacks to hit shoe-lace deep is very hard to do -- you'll here the audio cue for the move and even see the first few frames of the move come out, but the attack won't hit. Now factor in Honda's height. When he's crouching, he's very low on the ground and you'd have to time it well to hit him deep, but if you do the move too late your move simply whiffs. Then he SPDs you when you land. Yes, Gief can do the same, in a fashion -- "Gunter's Trick" illustrates this. Unfortunately, while the CPU can do it on a regular basis, attempting to SPD/FAB an opponent as he whiffs a jumping attack isn't practical for humans. It requires that your opponent do a mistake that's ultimately punishable by a VC -- in Gunter's Gief example, an attack that hits that high would have been punished by the standard Gief VC. A human V-Honda would have headbutted VC.

It's possible to SPD right after blocking an attack, provided it isn't in the middle of a combo. For example, if an opponent tries to hit Gief too high, Gief can SPD him when he lands. Learning to do reversals helps.

There isn't any special timing required for ticking: ticking isn't useful in the first place, and not really a skill worth expounding on. If your opponent is the type whom you can standing SK -> SPD regularly he isn't the type you should learn Gief with.

On Gen: Yeah, when I was starting with Z3 (with Z-Gief) I also found Gen annoying, but the fact that you can even air-block that kick of his tells something about your opponent -- his timing sucks. He's using the kick on reaction, hoping for a hit. In this case, using a VC drop-through _won't_ be useful, since you'll be trying to react against what is basically a random act. Concentrate on your ground game instead. Gen and Gief have comparable ground priority, but Gief has his JP SPD to back him up.

My favorite method of getting max SPD range is by jumping into it. Green Gloving into range (then use the recovery time to spin the stick) also works, but getting into right range prior to the glove is a bit hard -- right after a successful SPD as your opponent is getting up seems best. Most human opponents go into a state of shock right after being SPD'd, and since Gief is so far away a lot really can't react when Gief Gloves into max range, not seeing him as an immediate threat. Remember: green Glove into max range and no closer, otherwise Zangief _will_ end up eating something. I don't like whiffing a standing JP into an SPD, mainly because I get hit while doing the jab, but maybe it's just me screwing it up

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Posted by Apoc on 03:07:2002 03:01 PM:

On the subject, I had a talk with Calipower a few days ago and V-Gief was brought up. I had a good laugh when he talked about how good Japanese V-Gief was. What was funny was the reason. What's funnier is that the reason is true. The Japanese are the only V-Giefs that can do the extended range grab from both sides consistantly! LOL TO think that one minor thing is what separates it at all.

I use V-Gief and I use a lot of walk-up SPDs with the extended range, I make use of the katobbi cancel if it's strategically applicable, and I commonly use about 4 versions of OTG combos. Needless to say, I don't lose too often with V-Gief if the controls are nice. But my biggest weakness IS only being able to do the extended range grab from one side perfectly. LOL. How deadly would I be if I had it 100% from both sides without having to cancel the whiff jab? It comes down to laziness I think. I'm just not interested in spending a grip of time learning how to do something on the other side. To me, that's pretty darned funny. Because V-Gief is very easy to use once you understand him and have his skills down. This is the "free-damage" character afterall. Still, I don't see anyone in the US busting the extended grab from both sides. I think that anyone can pick up Gief and learn the necessities(although those without great footgames will be at a loss in some matches)and use him to place highly even at a national level.

I dunno, I just find it funny that the only thing that separates good US giefs vs. good Japanese Giefs is laziness. I see a player doing extended grabs from both sides I think: "Shit, dude is tight". Even if that's his only strength lol.

The extended grab is his biggest asset I believe.

Apoc.

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V-ISM Specifics

Posted by mondu_the_fat on 10-16-2002 05:38 PM:

Superassrider: Here are Gief's combos that I know of.

VC3 -> KKK lariat -> (green glove -> whiff anything) repeat until in corner -> repeat RK

VC3 -> KKK lariat -> (FP -> whiff green glove) repeat until corner -> repeat RK

The second VC is slightly more powerful (on a full meter it does around 10% more damage, on half meter the benefit is really obvious), but a bit harder (the first combo you can just mash out whiloe the second requires timing). With a cross-up splash I've been able to squeeze as much as 90% off the second one, but these combos are generally used as anti-air.

Alternatively, you can end the VC with an OTG throw (which is a lot easier than repeated RKs, BTW), but be aware that this is can be rolled away from.

From the old posts, Gief has also these combo, but I can't do them so you may want to find someone that does to fully explain:

VC3 -> 360+K -> 360+K -> whiff green glove -> whiff green glove -> 360+K

or maybe it was

VC3-> 360+K -> 360+K -> whiff green glove -> 360 +P

Anyway, AFAIK, you _cannot_ use this with kattobi cancel. You literally have to be standing right next to your opponent when you start the VC.

[toilet]

Posted by Gunter on 10-16-2002 07:01 PM:

For this combo (affectionately called the Glitchdriver combo for nostalgic reasons), you have to have 75% meter and be to the left of the opponent. Immediately upon activation with any strength VC, grab with any kick SPD and the opponent will land next to you. That's the easy part. Timing the next kick SPD is kinda hard, then the 3rd one you're just praying that you cover their wakeup with a Green Hand so you can get them out of block stun, or get there in time to OTG them.

I like to have them block a splash first and then activate and do it. I've also done it as anti-air (ala Anti-Air FAB), but that way is less reliable. If you have them block a splash (with you to the left of the opponent), that's pretty much guaranteed win if you can do the Glitchdriver combo consistently.

Also, this glitch only works in the arcades and on the ROMs (i.e., not on console).

[toilet]

Posted by Superassrider on 10-19-2002 06:21 PM:
And with the 3 360 VC,could you explain why i cant Kattobi cancel it????

one more thing,you seem to all have a different name for zangief SRK. The real name of this move is the BANISHING FIST. This is a small knowledge i can bring in this thread.
Posted by Gunter on 10-19-2002 06:50 PM:

Because it's a glitch, and one of the stipulations of that glitch is that you have to be immediately next to and to the left of the opponent when you activate, and cancel your activation with a 360 Kick Grab. If you Kattobi cancel, you aren't immediately next to and to the left of the opponent when you activate, so you cannot cancel your activation with a 360 Kick Grab, can you?

Actually, it's a Banishing Flat. The Green Hand isn't actually a fist at all, it's a palm slap... hence its name is "Flat". We all already knew this, and we don't care. No one goes around calling FBs "Wave Motion Punch", or SPDs "Screw Piledriver" for that matter. We have our own names for the moves. The Green Hand has been called The Green Hand since it came out in ST, because the first time someone saw it, it was green... or something like that.

[toilet]

Posted by mondu_the_fat on 07:21:2001 04:06 AM:

Here's the VC I most commonly use:

(any VC) -> KKK lariat -> (FP Green glove -> whiff crouching FK) repeat until opponent cornered -> whiff crouching/standing FK or crouching RK -> OTG throw

You can use any VC. VC1 gives more hits, but _less_ damage (damage scaling is a bitch). VC2 and VC3 give the same amount of hits, but VC2 tends to mess up the OTG throw because the shadow's attacks hits the opponent before he touches the ground. I use VC3.

You can skip the whiff crouching FK and just juggle your opponent with the FP Green glove, but the whiff crouching FK gives more "rhythm" and allows you to do the combo easily.

If your meter is 100% full, you can do this combo from end to end (that is, you start with your back to the corner and you'll end the VC with the OTG at the other corner). On a full meter and VC3, you can get the KKK lariat to hit for 2, the green glove would hit for 7, then the OTG throw (usually I use the running grab, since the timing is easier than pie, but if you can get the double suplex to hit then good for you) for a total or 10 hits. The shadow shouldn't hit at all. This will do up to 60-80% damage, depending on who you're fighting. With VC1, the KKK lariat hits 3-5 times (depending on how deep it hit), the green glove should hit twice -- one from Zangief himself and one from the shadow (if you can't get the glove to hit twice then used VC3 instead) for 14 (7 gloves x 2), then the OTG thow. Damage is 40-70%.

If your meter is 50% full, you can do this at midscreen. This should give you an idea on where to place yourself if you want to land the VC fully.

This combo can be used as anti-air and against a grounded opponent (mainly because the KKK lariat will hit even crouching opponents). When used as anti-air, be aware that the KKK lariat is _air-blockable_. If your opponent knows what you're planning it can be pretty hard to land it. More and more I've been having to use this combo against grounded opponents.

Cross-up Body splash -> VC.

One problem with this VC is if you're forced to use it from, say, midscreen while you're 100% full. You'd end up doing the OTG throw then landing too far away to use the rest of your meter. This _sucks_.

He're one solution: the OTG throw should be the double suplex, then do a Green glove then do an OTG JP SPD. It's supposed to work, but for the life of me I've never been able to do it. The OTG double suplex is hard enough.

Sorry, I can't help you with the standing FP VC. I can't do it.

[toilet]

Posted by shadowcharlie on 06-28-2002 04:47 PM:

can anyone explain to me how to otg with 360 throws in a3?
Posted by Apoc on 06-28-2002 05:23 PM:

It's like akuma's in that you must grab them while they're flat on the ground just after the bounce that occurs when they land on their back. Thing here is, I think it is so much easier because Gief's spds are instant frame grabs and his drss feel like it anyway:P So you can just time the button press to match the moment that they land flat.

Characters land differently so, to do these on every character, you may want to watch closely.

Some common ones:
After one DRS(player one side glitch)
far long RH, fierce green hand(pause)--

My personal favorite is less practical but I always got it a lot anyway:P KKK in the corner, activate-- The trick to doin' this is to pause and then activate RIGHT when they are flat. VCs stop time and you can cancel that timestop into the special. So you can just watch and you'll get this one

Finally, if, for some reason, you trip them while they are in your face(instead of 360), activate--

Hope that helps.

Apoc.

[toilet]

Posted by ballpoint on 09-28-2002 02:39 AM:

does anyone know any VCs that start with throws? like
- [VC] throw > juggle, or
- [VC2 or 3] whiff move > throw > shadow of whiffed move hits
Posted by v-ryu_jimmy on 09-28-2002 05:59 AM:

with v-zangief:

in cornertr: PP throw > start OC > 360^^

or even the one i put im my old video :

start OC > 360+K > 360+K > walk > 360+P

[toilet]

Originally posted by Paranoia EviL
whats is a good VC to do after ziefs kattobi cancel i jus usually spd but i bet there are better things...
Posted by toilet on 07-23-2002 07:44 AM:

Well, don't forget you can grab them in hit-stun while in a VC, so you can kick them in the face then SPD :)

One thing to spend some time with is his crouch-cancelled j.rh VC off a counter-hit. Counter-hit someone out of the air with an early attack (say the splash), land, CC jump, activate, repeated CC'd j.rh's. Does a great amount of damage and the opportunity happens more often than you would think. You can practice against the computer since they jump around fairly aimlessly.

[toilet]

Fighting Dhalsim

Posted by jchensor on 06:01:2001 06:15 AM:

My biggest tip: Kick Lariat hits ALL limbs. If you can time it so you actiate the Lariat RIGHT when Dhalsim sticks the Limbs in you, you'll hit him cleannly, and you can keep advancing on him.

So purposely get a screen away from Dhalsim. This is your best starting distance. Stay there, and watch if 'Sim throws a Fireball or not. If he does, let it come close, jump over it with Down + Fierce. This will beat or trade with ALL of Dhalsim's limbs until you land (just make sure you get CLEAR over the fireball, or doing Down + Fierce will cause your legs to hit the fireball behind you). Once Dhalsims learn they can't poke you out of the air, they'll try to poke you when you land. That's a perfect set-up for hitting them with the Kick Lariat (allows for good psychic "DP's"). Once Dhalsim gets worried to poke when you land, land and just start walking forward or jump again. It's perfect opening for you to get in close. From there, learn how to jump from a distance so you can land and Jab SPD Dhalsim when you land, but are still too far away for Dhalsim to anti-air you with Back + Strong. Also, from that distance, you can still hit him with Jumping Fierce (not Down + Fierce). So it's a good distance. Learn it.

The only good trick for 'Sim is that if you jump over a Fireball, 'Sim can nail you with a Jumping Strong, and that'll beat Down + Fierce. If you know 'Sim is gonna try that, jump with Jab or Short, and it'll beat all of 'Sim's Jumping Strongs.

Hope that helps.

[toilet]

Posted by Buktooth88 on 06:01:2001 06:43 AM:

Well, Sim CAN throw out a standing roundhouse or forward as the yoga fire nears Zangief, which will snuff all attempts at jumping.

But other than that, yeah, it's what JChensor said. The key strategy for Zangief is Lariating Dhalsim;'s limbs and make him afraid to stick em out. Once that is accomplished, getting in is MUCH easier.

Posted by jchensor on 06:04:2001 06:39 AM:

Well, that's why one of the things I state is getting a screen away on purpose, first. From there, it's MUCH harder for Dhalsim to kick you out of your jump on it's way up, 'cause you're a screen away. Anytime I get to the point where I'm about 3/4 a screen away from Dhalsim (like, he pushed me there with a Crouch Fierce into Fireball that I block), I automatically jump backwards into the corner and wait there for a Fireball. Is he doesn't throw it, then I begin my approach with a ready trigger finger on the Kick Lariat. But I always try to preface it with a jump from a screen away.

- James

[toilet]

Other Match-ups

Posted by Apoc on 06-17-2002 01:39 PM:

...

Also, who beats V-Gief. No, really. Who does Gief lose to? Not who does well. Who should he lose to, outright? Reasons?

Apoc.


Posted by SaBrE on 06-17-2002 01:51 PM:

i think he downright loses to sodom. b+fierce just owns his ass. i just do b+fierce, slide all day long. works pretty well for me. akuma does well if you play a keepaway game with air fireballs. but i still think its in giefs favor. even though better players will disagree saying akuma wins. then you got the sim vs gief issue. but honestly, gief does well vs sim in this game IMO.

my personal favorites to take gief out are v-sodom and A-charlie. i like A-charlie over v-charlie in this fight cuz i can do the backhand during a charge unlike in V, and it hits gief mid. good range attack for fighting gief IMO


Posted by Apoc on 06-17-2002 02:42 PM:

I definately agree with A-Charlie against V-gief. I like it because a level 1 flash kick outlasts the invincibility of a vc activation And that early cr. fierce kills all V-giefs jump ins(not so against A-Gief, wtf ) I also agree about Sim. I'm interested in checking Sodom But can't do back fierce vs. a charged V-Gief or rather, you shouldn't unless Gief is facing the left, heheh. The slide, I would think, could be good but wouldn't you slide into a lot of extended range grabs? I've never played the match(that I can recall). Wouldn't cr. jab or st.short beat the slide?


Posted by Mouko on 06-17-2002 04:22 PM:

Gief loses to Sim, Akuma, Sak, Charlie and Sodom, though Sim vs Akuma and Charlie is pretty close.

Sim is obvious. Sak keeps him out well with s.rh, j.short, b+fierce, anti air with c.fierce -> jab dp and of course, VC. Charlie and Akuma though its pretty close, they both have good midscreen VCs and normals to poke him out with (standard footsies)


Posted by SaBrE on 06-17-2002 04:36 PM:

i dunno. i guess i just dont play against gief correctly with akuma. i just try to zone out with far hopkick pokes into low forward fireball or b+rh. and like jump straight up air fireball into b+rh poke. i know dive kicks are just asking for free spd. around my neck uv da woods, i beat gief with akuma. but like when wilson came down and beat my with his gief, i couldnt do shit that i normally do. prolly just lack of outside comp i guess.


Posted by Apoc on 06-17-2002 05:36 PM:

I don't know. Honestly I think Gief kills all shotos with ken being the most difficult barring the super meter(normals and specials).

Mouko:Akuma has good pokes to keep Gief out? Like what? Sabre's strat works if you omit the extended range grab. But why omit that when everyone can do that by now? Sim isn't for free at all as long as Gief is basic with machine gun low jabs, katobbi cancels, low RH cc to otgs(can't recover teleport either), jumping jabs and knees, well timed kkk clotheslines.... Gief may get gc'd here and there but from far? Who cares? I'd say it's in Sim's favor but I can't agree that he beats Gief for free. Perhaps further explaining of the precise strat? Sorry, it's just not obvious to me.

lol, I'm still trippin' on the Akuma thing. In a match of Akuma vs. Gief, I have to give it to gief. Aside from air hurricanes and the jumping jab(both of which can lead to an spd now whereas before they were God in the match:P) I don't see anything but his nasty vcs. Outside of the Vmeter, I've always thought that Gief won. Is this a teleport thing? Teleport doesn't help sim where Gief gets his damage. Although, I can see how it can help Akuma out some. I'm assuming there must be VC set ups that Gief can't avoid?

Maybe I have gone A3 dumb:P

Apoc.


Posted by Mouko on 08-22-2002 05:05 PM:

V-gief is good, but does get beat by Sim (slide anti air owns him), Akuma, Sak, charlie and Sodom. Akuma has too many VC set ups, sak has too many good normals as does charlie and sodom. Gief has to inch foward and try to get in, in which he's suspectable to a VC.


Posted by toilet on 06-18-2002 09:45 AM:

I play a lot of Gief and figured I'd put in my 2 cents. V-Akuma fights much like any other V-Akuma fight, not really any more or less frustrating. Same with Charlie to a certain extent. It's a good fight though. Dhalsim definately has the advantage, though I don't feel it's a 'for free' battle. I have Chensor's old Gief vs. Sim strategy post and will post it if anyone's interested. I'd put A-Dhalsim and V-Sakura as the toughest matches, though I'm not a Gief expert by any means. I think the kattobi cancels are a little overrated. They have their place, however I see more meter mileage coming from a lariat / green hand / otg VC. During play I don't see many times where I feel the necessary. I'm open to seeing someone fly all over the screen and do well with it though.


Posted by V-Gat on 06-18-2002 08:13 PM:

Actually (For me) I find his Katobbi cancel better serves my meter usage... If you can play Gief well, there really is no point to use his VC unlesss to get yourself out of trouble... I mainly use the KC (Katobbi Cancel) to help close the gap between me and my opponent... Plus on half meter it does about half life damage, not bad for meter usage... Just KC and when you are flying at the opponent hit fierce, crouching short, crouching roundhouse, whiff banishing flat OTG roundhouse 360... The one match I feel that you should learn it is Sim matches, makes it so much less stressful to get in on the bastard...

[toilet]

Posted by Sabin on 06-16-2002 01:17 PM:

On V-Vega vs V-Gief = gief owns Vega for free if he knows kattobi cancel, because, outside of counter vc when he splashes at you with kattobi (his stand short into flipkick into b+rh VC) he cannot do anything, and he loses 50% for free. however, if he cant do kattobi cancel, the fight isnt so bad, imo he can keep gief out for a long period of time with low strong, flipkick, or KK throw if he tries to jump. Superior walking speed helps too. The matchup is still way not in vegas favor, cuz you have to poke him 40 times to win, and he only has to hit you like 8 or 9 times? I believe. So you have to be careful. But I don't mind playing that match, although Gief still wins it.

[toilet]

Posted by Sir-Jabs-Alot on 07-23-2002 01:52 PM:

One of the biggest reasons we don't use V-Gief is because of CHARLIE-GOD's A-Charlie. The V-Gief gets punished by Charlie's Low Fierce. The A-Gief can splash it pretty well. V-Gief has different properties than A-Gief in case you didn't know. Weird. Gief is a good character against Birdie so that will be a good fight. Like I said, other than CHARLIE-GOD's A-Charlie and the different Gief users. That Birdie destroys everyone else.

[toilet]

Posted by mondu_the_fat on 09-14-2002 05:14 PM:

DespideR: I agree with Gunter. Z-Gen is a headache for me when I play Gief. None of Gen's normals really will help against a jumping Gief, but the waterfall kick stops Gief cold, whether it be splash or knees.

Most Gen matches I've fought revolve around Gen turtling and relying on the waterfall kick. I think this is because Gen players realize that Gen , realistically, can't jump on Gief either (lariat, VCs, etc.). I'm reduced to playing footsie and SPDing max range, but a badly whiffed poke usually means a standing FP down my throat.

V-gief has a slight advantage over Z-gief in this match-up because of VC invulnerability, which can help against the waterfall kick (but not always -- goddamn low altitude diagonally angled multihit anti-air).

[toilet]

Miscellaneous

Posted by Gunter on 07-22-2002 06:20 PM:

Am I the only A-Gief in the country?

I know V-Gief is better, but he's just too boring to me. Seriously, the ONLY reason I play A3 anymore is to land Anti-Air FAB. But he dies to almost any V-ism character when at equal skill levels. Just checking to see if anyone else is crazy enough to use him in A.

If you're talking about Anti-Air FAB, yes it's for X and A Gief only. It's a technique I imported (smuggled) from Japan - when the opponent jumps at you with an attack, right before they hit you, crouch and whiff short (you can also whiff a throw). While the short animation is out, do your 720 motion and they'll land right in your Final Atomic Buster.

I actually got this on my first try at the ST tournament at SVGL on Saturday. Because ST whiffs are faster, I whiffed forward instead of short, but it still grabbed them right when they landed. Gief is dope.

I'm thinking you could also use this tactic as a setup for the Glitchdriver VC in V-ism. But since I never really got that to work normally, I doubt I'd get it with this setup.

[toilet]

Posted by el_diablo on 08-20-2002 11:30 PM:
...
oh. and explain me why gief should be higher(once again, i'll repeat it: it's NOT my rankings, but you don't seem to get that).

Posted by CHARLIE-GOD on 08-21-2002 06:01 PM:

And finally V-Gief. Where do I start with this guy. Damn he's good. Besides the obvious (good damage, good defense, good reach, unblockable piledriver, good anti-air, etc.), the reason he's so good is because of the VC's. If you jump on him, he's gonna take 70% life everytime. VC into kick clothesline --> sweep that is IMMEDIATELY cancelled into a green glove (repeat sweep cancel green glove) until corner then air throw them out of corner into more green gloves when they fall out of the corner. When done properly, it almost looks like he's doing just green gloves. 70%+ just because you jump once. Then there's the VC traps in the corner. In the corner he can activate into a splash, low short (repeat) Pretty tough to block or get out of even when it hits. You can repeat this or just go into a unblockable throw. If opponent get's hit or blocks he still gets the unblockable double suplex. Then you can do a st.short into another one when they get up off the ground after they bounce out of the corner (non-DP characters) If you think they will DP, pause a sec then do it. He also has VERY VERY easy VC's that do 50%+ damage. VC1 --> splash --> (low fierce OR {st.forward --> Fierce green glove)} --> double suplex throw then another throw combo as they are getting up (barring they have a DP or super) Then there is the VC activation where he flies 3/4 the way across the screen. You can piledrive your opponent then VC 3/4 the way across the screen as they are getting up into a (hit or blocked) combo into another unblockable throw.

This is MY OPINION ONLY on these characters.

[EnSabahNur]

Zangief is the man, period! Marvel vs Capcom 2's the only game he sucks in, becasue of how they fucked up everything! In all other games, he represents lovely!:cool:

[Ja-Ei-Ken]

bump

[io]

after extensive testing i've come to the conclusion that zangief can be played equally well by trained monkeys. chestnuts anyone?

[mondu_the_fat]

Question on glitchdriver:

Is it possible to properly glitchdriver X-Cody? Right after the first siberian suplex X-cody seems to bounce slightly further away than other characters, and I can't siberian him again. OTG SPD or running grab works fine though.

And could the guy who originally posted the relative difficulties of doing the glitchdriver on various characters do so again? It would be much appreciated.

Ja-Ei-Ken: While I do love the Z3 threads, I believe that there's something in the rules against bumping them up...

[Ryu1999]

Originally posted by io
after extensive testing i've come to the conclusion that zangief can be played equally well by trained monkeys. chestnuts anyone?

ditto. jump straight up neutral fierce is the devil

[io]

haha, damn straight. and you thought sim had reach lol. when all else fails though, just chestnuts(splash)

[Superassrider]

Congratz to u toilet,this is everything someone needs to know on Zangief in A3.

I would like to congratulate Gunter for his match against Join Choi,he won with V-Zangief,I'm mensioning it because i think in the match he started the GlitchDriver (I think the opponent K.Oed before he was able to pull off the second siberian suplex,but it can show you how it works a bit).

[heavenly king]

WAS PLAYING ART AKA SABIN THE OTHER DAY A-GIEF VS A-BISON IT WAS FUNNY AS HELL IN THE LAST ROUND I STARTED TO SPIN JOYSTICK AFTER HE KNOCK ME DOWN SO HE JUMPED UP AND I DID THE AIR GRAB SUPER AND TOOK HIM OUT

[jchensor]

Recently, Panmarblic asked me for some A-Gief tips through e-mail, so I wrote up a real quick brain dump to him. Most of this information is repeated info, but it focuses on A-Gief more than V-Gief. So I'm printing my brain dump to him (it really is a brain dump, no organization, just a bunch of stuff spewed out in real time) here for more info:

* * * * * * *

Sorry to take so long to reply, but haven't had a lot of free time
lately. ^_^ But I'll manage to give you the few things you MUST
learn with A-Gief in order to do well...

First of all, regardless of WHICH Zangief you use, you MUST learn the
Extended Pile Driver trick. Are you aware of how to do it or what it
is? If not, lemme know and I'll explain. Otherwise, I'll jsut say
this: GET GOOD AT DOING THIS. If you do, your chances are increased
ten fold. Maybe even 20 fold.

Learn how to properly anti-air with the 3P lariat. In order to use
this anti-air proerly, ALWAYS DO IT FROM CROUCHING. Hitting 3P will
stand Zangief up autoamtically. So you can let the enemy fall above
you, hit 3P and you'll stand up into them and be guaranteed that your
first, invincible animation frame connects. If you try from standing,
you'll trade a lot. Maybe even lose sometimes.

Learn which characters have a way to stop the Splash (Jumpnig Down +
Fierce). Seriously, if they can't? There is no reason to ever stop
using this move once you get on top of them. Like Rolento? you get
on top of him and just do Down + Fierce in the air, land, jump again
and repeat. Until he somehow escpaes or until he's dead. Seems
stupid, but it works, and you gotta do it.

Some characters CAN stop it, but many players may not know how. Test
them out. If you are playingagainst Guy, try Jumpnig at him with Down
+ Fierce. If he gets owned up, just do it and pretend he doesn't know
the Counter. Repeat until he takes sufficient damage. ^_^ If he
KNOWS the proper counter (Crouching Strong, of all things), you're
gonna have to learn how to switch to Down + Forward when you Jump on
top of the enemy. This will NOT beat most of the moves like Down +
Fierce will, but it doesn't ever LOSE to any moves. At worse, it
trades (with every except DPs).

Also, when you Jump, your hit box is small. If you touch a button, it
grows. So if someone like Gen is good at Crouch Fiercing (his
anti-air) your Zangief's Jumping Down + Fierce, try Jumping and doing
nothing and SPD'ing when you land. Sometimes, by not hitting a
button, you stay "smaller" so that his move passes harmlessly by and
you grab when you land.

Leanr the magic distance. What's the magic distance? Jumpnig at the
enemy let's you do a Magic Jab SPD (since Jab SPD has longest range)
when you land. But you're still in range for neutral Jumping Fierce
to connect. But if you don't touch a button, and the enemy DP's,
they'll miss you completely. This is HUGE. Jumping at Vega, for
example, you can jump at a distance that you can beat his Normal Move
anti-air with a Jumping Fierce but still avoid his Razor Kick
completely if you touch no button. You might be able to SPD when you
land as well, if you distance it jsut right.

If you jump over a Fireball and want to attack, never use Fierce.
NEVER USE FIERCE. Use Jumping Strong. Jumping Fierce puts your legs
back into the Fireball you just Jumped over.

Best ground pokes are Standing Short, Standing Forward, Crouch Fierce,
and Ofeensive Crouching Roundhouse. Short and Forward and Crouch
Fierce will be the basis of your ground game, but Off. Roundhouse is
crucial to sneaking in a quick hit while they are standing, so you can
go in for the kill. Forward has great priority. Short is just the
best "quick" move, along with Crouching Jab, which i also good to use
every so often.

Never forget to simply grab the enemy when they get up off the floor.
Sweep them, walk up, and use Extended SPD grab on them right when they
get up.

The best use of his Super Meter is the Level 3 Anti-Air super. But
NEVER EVER EVER EVER try it out by itself. It has no priority.
However, learn this Combo: Stand Jab into Level 3 Anti-Air Super.
Stand Jab is a good anti-air move and whether or not it's a Counter
Hit, the Super will connect afterwards. HUGE damage, easy Combo.
Just do Fireball + Jab, Fireball + Roundhouse. By far, you'll use
your super the most this way. If they ever jump at you, do this. But
try to save it for when it'll kill them or if you need a comeback.
Don't just do it right away because then you lose the anti-air
intimidation factor.

You can use the above for anti- SPD tick getaways, too. You can learn
to do Crouching Jab x 2 into SPD. It's tough, but really good and
sudden. But if the enemy tries to Jump away, sometimes, it's hard to
grab them. So do two Crouch Jabs. If you see them jump away,
Fireball + Jab, Fireball + Roundhouse should be able to catch them,
esp. if you have them in the corner.

Also, Crouching Short into 720 is always a good way to try a
desperation Level 3 damage. You can even do it as anti air. ^_^
When you do Crouching Short, Zangief's hit box shrinks height-wise
tremendously. Let the enemy jump, do Crouching Short and if the enemy
tries to hit you with timing as if you were standing, their Jump
Attack will whiff. Use the Crouching Short to anchor you to the floor
and do 720 + Fierce timed to come out when the enemy lands.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER use Level 1 or 2, unless that's all you've got.
Otherwise, just pretend they don't exist. No reason to ever use them
if you have a full meter. It's Level 3 or nothing at that point.

Hrm... What else?

Jumpnig Straight-up Fierce is a good "turtle" tactic, if you are
pressured and can't think of what to do. It's a good way to "reset"
the match and to gather your senses after a bad spell of being
attacked. Do it to throw the enemy off a bit, and then stop.
Regather yourself, and commence your offense.

I'd say that my offense relies mostly on baiting enemies into the
footsie game and then Jumping in and SPD'ing when I land when they
don't expect it. Oh yeah, it's almost ALWAYS better to preface that
with a Jumping Forward. Do Jumping Forward, land into SPD. Jumping
Forward at the height of your jump will whiff on 95% of standing
characters, and it brain freezes the enemy: they think you attacked,
so they don't try to react with anti air or jump away from SPD. They
just block. At that point, free SPD when you land.

Zangief is minimalist. Do as few moves as possible. Be VERY VERY
VERY patient. Don't get frustrated. Even if you walk up and block 10
fireballs in a row against Charlie or Ryu, it doesn't matter. Don't
get discouraged, keep advancing.

To stop an Akuma who jumps straight up and Air Fireballs all day, Jump
at him with Jab or Short the instant you see him jump straight up. No
other button will work.

Oh yes!!! CRUCIAL CRUCIAL. The Kick Lariat beats everything. ^_^
Learn how to use this move to stop pokes. It will beat ALL OF
DHALSIM'S LONG RANGED POKES. It'll beat VEGA'S CROUCHING STRONG. But
it requires TIMING. You must activate it when the move is "in you".
So against 'Sim, jump over a Fireball from a screen away and do Down +
Fierce. 'Sim can't hit it, so he'll do Crouching Fierce when you
land. When you land, hit 3K and it'll beat 'Sim's Crouching Fierce
and you can advance. It's risky, but it's key in anti-Sim match and
anti-Vega match.

Matches you MUST learn: Ryu, Akuma, Sakura, Rolento, Dhalsim. Maybe
Vega. Charlie. Others are all pretty much on Zangief's favor, except
Gens who only use two buttons (Stand Roundhouse and Crouch Fierce).

Okay, that's a really big brain dump from me for now. I'll try to
think of anything else, but I have to go now. ^_^ Lemme know if you
need more info on the extended SPD range, and if you have any other
questions. I dunno how in depth I can get on certain match-ups, but
I'll be glad to answer anyspecific questions.

- James

[kafuin_gaira]

sweet post. i wish i would have known 3k lariat beats dhalsim pokes, because that's how i lost in a tournament recently :( as long as i could stay within 1-2 character lengths of sim everything was peachy, but as soon as he pushed me out beyond that ideal range i started to die the horrible poke death.

off topic: i'm looking for an a3 board to practice on if anyone knows of a good place to find one.

peace.

[TheRisingDragon]

Also, the lariat can be used as a reversal for jump-in attacks. If you happen to get accidentally snagged by one, immediately do the lariat.3P or 3K may depend on the jump-in, but usually either one is fine. I prefer 3P, though.

The defensive crouch sweep has the same animation as the other defensive crouch kicks, if anyone takes notice. Can be good for mind games.

I'm sleepy now. Later :cool:

[coreografo]

poking strings???

[TS]

jumping splash -> crouching Jab -> SPD.

Wow, beastly post by Mr. Chen.