Turning Parries Off?

[r3ko]

OK, lets say hypothetically, we turned off Parries in 3s through the system directions menu.

-What sort of consequences would that have on the gameplay?
-Would it make it a better or worse fighter?
-If say there was a tournament for 3s where parries where turned off, would regular 3s players not enter it?
-Would it encourage previous 3s naysayers to play it?

Just for the record, i am not saying we should turn parries off in 3s, all i am saying is that maybe it might be interesting if there was a one off in the future, something totally separate, that would not interfere with anything else.

Just something i am throwing out there, for possible future reference.

I am not trying to cause hate or anything, so people please keep their hate out of this thread, serious discussion only please. If you can't handle that, don't post.

[Gaijinblaze]

Here we go again.

[caliagent#3]

3s was developed with parries in mind. So turning it off would probably make the game unplayable

[Darklightjg1]

There was a thread about this before (yes, it started off with discussion about turning parries off) and it basically wound up with some people saying the ability to build meter on whiff should be turned off and the rest saying nothing should be changed at all and to play something besides 3S if you have a problem with it.

[goodm0urning]

And the stale battle over parries reignites in five, four, three...

[r3ko]

I tried searching for this, i but found nothing, sorry, maybe cause search only lets you search back to Feb this year. Anyway though it sounded like that thread ended in a dead end. "Play something else" is not a very good answer, as it defeats the purpose of the question.

[DietSoap]

What's up with getting all... Defensive before any discussion?

Could someone link the older thread on this?

[Hayama Akito]

Worse, for sure, but you know, some times with some friends we play 3s using System Direction, without parries but with air block, Alpha-style. Its kind of fun.

[Rioting Soul]

I tried searching for this, i but found nothing, sorry, maybe cause search only lets you search back to Feb this year. Anyway though it sounded like that thread ended in a dead end. "Play something else" is not a very good answer, as it defeats the purpose of the question.

Don't worry about it. It's just a heated topic on this forum. But if we all just take it cool... maybe this thread will fade away before history is repeated for the 4th/5th time.

[Corner-Trap]

I'm not trying to hate or anything, but we might as well be playing ST. Here's some possible changes that may occur if parrying was taken out:

-fireball/dragon punch traps will be a viable strategy again
-we will see more deaths due to chip damage
-jump-ins will be safer
-it will be much easier to pressure on wake-up
-etc.

As a matter of fact, I think the tier list would look a little different. Shoto's and Remy may move up because of the increased effectiveness of projectiles. On the flip-side Hugo may move down, since parrying lead into a lot of his set-ups.

EDIT:

I'm about to go have some fun and play alpha style on 3S like Hayama Akito mentioned.

[Darklightjg1]

I tried searching for this, i but found nothing, sorry, maybe cause search only lets you search back to Feb this year. Anyway though it sounded like that thread ended in a dead end. "Play something else" is not a very good answer, as it defeats the purpose of the question.

Hmm, I can't find it either. Memories are hazy, but the OP of that thread came up with the idea because his friends played around with the Sys Dir. I remember one of the first things mentioned is that Denjin Ryu became God Tier as a result of turning parry off. That could be a problem for me since I like DJ Ryu and don't want him banned...:sweat:

[Higher-Jin]

He's just asking a question, why get all bent out of shape?

To answer the q it would probably be worse. As said before it was designed with parries in mind and so it would be thrown off with that taken out of the equation.

For one thing denjin ryu becomes a lot deadlier and real keep away games become viable.

If it makes you 3s players less yancy about the subject how about I put this question foward: What would happen if you turn off the assists in mvc2 by changing the button config?

What would the tier list look like? Would it be better or worse? etc. etc.

[Qro]

lets just turn blocking off and only have parry

[r3ko]

What's up with getting all... Defensive before any discussion?

Could someone link the older thread on this?

I just want people to clear about what i am trying to discuss, cause i know how easy something like this could blow up into a love/hate 3s flame war.

I'm not trying to hate or anything, but we might as well be playing ST. Here's some possible changes that may occur if parrying was taken out:

-fireball/dragon punch traps will be a viable strategy again
-we will see more deaths due to chip damage
-jump-ins will be safer
-it will be much easier to pressure on wake-up
-etc.

As a matter of fact, I think the tier list would look a little different. Shoto's and Remy may move up because of the increased effectiveness of projectiles. On the flip-side Hugo may move down, since parrying lead into a lot of his set-ups.

EDIT:

I'm about to go have some fun and play alpha style on 3S like Hayama Akito mentioned.

Yes i agree fireballs would be alot more prominent since they will be a much more effective zoning tool.

I don't agree about jumpins will be safer though. Anti-air moves which are normally parry bait will be much more effective. I think you would have to think much more carefully about your jumps.

About wakeups, knocking down your opponent would give greatier advantage to the attacker, since theres no get out of jail free card.

I don't really agree with "you might aswell be playing ST", cause if parry is all some people really see as the difference between 3s and ST, then doesn't that just mean your saying Parry is only a gimmick?

[Corner-Trap]

Yes i agree fireballs would be alot more prominent since they will be a much more effective zoning tool.

I don't agree about jumpins will be safer though. Anti-air moves which are normally parry bait will be much more effective. I think you would have to think much more carefully about your jumps.

About wakeups, knocking down your opponent would give greatier advantage to the attacker, since theres no get out of jail free card.

I don't really agree with "you might aswell be playing ST", cause if parry is all some people really see as the difference between 3s and ST, then doesn't that just mean your saying Parry is only a gimmick?

When I said "we might as well play ST" I didn't mean that in all seriousness. As far as jump-ins are concerned, I agree that they probably aren't any safer, but your whole mentality about jump-ins will be changed. And no I don't consider parrying a gimmick, because gimmicks are just little things that will easily fade away, while parrying is an integral part of 3S.

EDIT:

Here's my settings for playing 3S in A3 style:

-ground parrying off
-anti-air parrying off
-air parrying off
-guard parrying off

-air guard on
-S.A. gauge max start on
-all super arts on

[rukawa_kaede]

parries is what got me interested in the game in the first place, turning that off will kill the game for me.

When I play 3s I always want to do parries unlike to say garou that I barely use the just defend option. Maybe in that game you can turn that off and it will still be fun for me.

[Ryo Yamazaki]

Yun would still be the best character in the game. Hugo would be BY FAR the worst character in the game. Even worse than Twelve.
Ryu would be better than Ken because of denjin as has been mentioned before.

[Mike C]

you guys have no idea what you're talking about. Fireball traps will never be good in 3s.

[Azagtoth]

I think the top tier would still be top (Chun would be MUCH more dirty), but a lot of characters (Akuma for example) would move up due to increased usefulness.

Oh yeah, and Hugo would basically be unplayable.

[DevilJin 01]

Why does everyone always wanna change 3S?

[TGS]

No parries = Urien/Oro are now top tier.

[StuartHayden]

lock plz.

-SH

[Henaki]

No parries = Urien/Oro are now top tier.

urien more so

jumping literally becomes not an option haha

but yeah, 3s is 3s, some characters would get better (urien, oro, akuma) some would get worse (hugo, twelve)

its a stupid question and no one's gonna turn off parries for any amount of time so...

[Shodokan123]

Because u cant parry, yun can chain combo whore all day long to get meter too... not having to worry about you parrying his shoulders or anything also gives him a better geni-jin pressure game in general...

3s would be unplayable with no parries with the existing cast.

[X-Sapphire]

I am not trying to cause hate or anything, so people please keep their hate out of this thread, serious discussion only please. If you can't handle that, don't post.

Lol, be real dude. How do you expect people to take a dumb topic like this seriously?

Yes let's make all fighting games similar to each other. :rolleyes:

Parry system is what makes 3S unique and more challenging. Turn it off and you might as well be playing SF2.

[r3ko]

Why does everyone always wanna change 3S?

I don't, why can't something like this happen along side 3s. According to the answers so far, it would create a whole new game, increasing its longevity.

lock plz.

-SH

Why?

Lol, be real dude. How do you expect people to take a dumb topic like this seriously?

Yes let's make all fighting games similar to each other. :rolleyes:

Parry system is what makes 3S unique and more challenging. Turn it off and you might as well be playing SF2.

How is it dumb? so far its pretty interesting.

Like i said if you think turning parry off in 3s makes it just like every other fighting game, then doesn't that just mean 3s is shallow, relying on a gimmick to make it interesting and different?

[Septimus Prime]

There are many aspects of 3S that set it apart from other games, like limited target chains, unblockables, no absolute guard, 6-juggle limit, two-button throw, UOH, picking one super art per match, variable meter length, super cancels, et cetera. But if you ask anyone what THE difference is, they will say it's parry.

[X-Sapphire]

How is it dumb? so far its pretty interesting.

Like i said if you think turning parry off in 3s makes it just like every other fighting game, then doesn't that just mean 3s is shallow, relying on a gimmick to make it interesting and different?

Buddy if taking parrying out makes 3S shallow, and taking out parrying makes the 3S engine just like any other SF game, then that just means that SF in general is shallow and you're wasting your life playing it. So think twice if that's what you're really trying to say.

[r3ko]

Huh? I was replying to what he said. I don't think that all, i was merely making a point to 3s players who think Parry is the only thing which sets their game apart from other fighters.

[ramza]

3s was developed with parries in mind. So turning it off would probably make the game unplayable

if you can't understand this after thinking about what caliagent wrote, you don't know enough about street fighter. close thread

[r3ko]

Well someone thought it was a good idea to include system directions in the console ports, giving us the option to change the game if we so choose. What you think about that ramza?

Its getting a little depressing with people hiding behind these wish washy posts that just tells me i don't know enough about street fighter, why don't you actually give some reasons to why 3s wouldn't work if parries was turned off.

[Gaijinblaze]

They also let Gill become playable, even on XBL versus mode. Your point? :lol:

I had a post written before then scrapped it... there's just no point. If I give anyone a reason to reply, it would be detrimental to my own cause.

But I felt like posting so there.

[Shodokan123]

Well someone thought it was a good idea to include system directions in the console ports, giving us the option to change the game if we so choose. What you think about that ramza?

Its getting pretty depressing with all people hiding behind these anti progressive posts. Instead of giving some wish washy post that just tells me i don't know enough about street fighter, why don't you actually give some reasons to why 3s would crap if parries was turned off.

it's like color edit and ex grooves in cvs2.... no one uses that shit.

[r3ko]

Systems directions is about changing the mechanics of the game. I dunno how anyone could compare it to color edit and boss characters.

Anyway enough with the off topic responses, if you can't stay on topic, then don't post.

I'm not asking whether or not you should even turn off Parries, i'm asking about what happens when you do, and would that deter current 3s players away from it, and would it attract new players too it. If you can't understand that, then you don't know enough about reading.

[RockCho]

it's like color edit and ex grooves in cvs2.... no one uses that shit.

I use color edit...

:wonder:

[Shodokan123]

Systems directions is about changing the mechanics of the game. I dunno how anyone could compare it to color edit and boss characters.

it's another feature meant to entertain people...

There have been countless threads discussing how to make 3s playable with system direction and nothing ANYONE has come up with would make the game any better or give it any more longevity. Parrying is what makes 3s so good... it gives every character a chance to win no matter how bad the matchup is. If you guess well you can win with anyone. Taking parries out would shift the tiers and would MAYBE be fun for a little while... but it would just get stale... basically be a3 with yang being the only V-Ism character and yun being like he's from SFA2 but it'd be a game with no alpha counters.

Sure fireballers would go up... but it would also make characters like dudley, yang, urien, oro go higher....

With no parried i see the following as the tier list


Yun
Urien
Dudley
Ken
Yang
Remy
Akuma
Chun
Ryu
Oro
Others

[Qro]

flame flame flame flame

[r3ko]

So you think parry is a gimmick, and without it, 3s is no more than a butchered Alpha3? Thats fair enough. I think it would offer something different myself.

No doubt there are countless threads, but if the search would actually give results older than last Feb then maybe i could find them.

[goodm0urning]

System direction is there for the people who would be interested in it. If you like to tinker with stuff, or fantasize about your dream version of the game that includes features to your own specs, then system direction is the tool for you. But there is a standardized version of the game, which is what is required for any sort of competitive play. System direction doesn't figure into it. It's just something fun to experiment with when you have some time on your hands.

[masher]

Why does everyone always wanna change 3S?

only fighter out that has (HUGE)system direction?


3s w/inf meter is alot moar balanced then w/o it!:arazz:

[r3ko]

Arent games supposed to about fun goodm0urning? And if through tinkering with system directions you can create more fun, wheres the harm.

As i said i not trying to change the face of 3s, and convert everyone to no parries. Not my intention at all.

I don't know if it will change the game for better or worse (probably elements of both, some parts of the game would improve, other parts would get worse), but if people just flat out refuse to even contemplate it, let alone even discuss it, and god forbid try it, then we will never know.

[ramza]

read caliagents post again, start thinking for yourself, you don't need to ask me.

People have fun playing world tour mode in alpha 3, and i still see it being brought up on this site from time to time. are they allowed to enjoy it? sure. but they're not going to be able to start any serious discussion about it. The competition is playing 3rd strike, not r3ko custom edit #5.

[r3ko]

I think you actually need to read my posts.

"The competition is playing 3rd strike, not r3ko custom edit #5."

That sentence alone proved you hadn't read a thing i've posted. Also I think its pretty evident i do think for myself, i don't just follow what other people say on here like a puppy so i can be accepted, like some people :rolleyes:

[10021985]

i like them parries on the game.
BTW, did you ever consider "turn-off parries" effect on ibuki's frame advantage traps?

i mean, advancing jabs trap would be hell-difficult to escape.

[DAWOLF57]

I dont understand why its so hard for people to accept a new(ish) game. For example when there is talk about playing MvC2 with certain rules that would make other characters playable you start seeing some of the same comments that I'm reading in this thread. When the possibility of an upgrade to SF2 HD was announce same thing, no one wanted any of it. And now this with SF3.

I can understand that if you've played a game in a certain way and trained hard to be good at it, becuase you like the game the way it is(maybe not all together but for the most part), you dont want that to be changed. But at the same time you probably play other games that are very different from that. So why is it that people cant even try out a game that they like with some changes, maybe big changes but what does it matter if no one is asking you to give up the game the way it used to be?

I personally think these type of things are disscused to much, we should just try it and see what happens what harm can it do.

[goodm0urning]

Arent games supposed to about fun goodm0urning? And if through tinkering with system directions you can create more fun, wheres the harm.Yes. I wasn't taking issue here. I was agreeing with you on this, while still attempting to carefully delineate the fun of system tinkering from the fun of real competition, which can only happen with the standard version.

[Rioting Soul]

Ok, what is the harm?

I'm not trying to hate or anything, but we might as well be playing ST. Here's some possible changes that may occur if parrying was taken out:

-fireball/dragon punch traps will be a viable strategy again
-we will see more deaths due to chip damage
-jump-ins will be safer
-it will be much easier to pressure on wake-up
-etc.

As a matter of fact, I think the tier list would look a little different. Shoto's and Remy may move up because of the increased effectiveness of projectiles. On the flip-side Hugo may move down, since parrying lead into a lot of his set-ups.

Even without parry, projectiles suck ass in 3s. Hadoukens come out and travel too slow in 3s so traps would probably require EXs.

I think jump-ins would be more unsafe. Without parry, the opponent on the ground doesn't have to worry about you parrying so using anti-air is now always a good idea.

Would this make Hugo vs Urien completely hopeless?

[X-Sapphire]

I don't know if it will change the game for better or worse (probably elements of both, some parts of the game would improve, other parts would get worse), but if people just flat out refuse to even contemplate it, let alone even discuss it, and god forbid try it, then we will never know.

Dude these kind of system direction changes topics for 3S are overkilled. Your thread isn't being taken seriously because it's been discussed, it's been over-discussed, and people are sick of a new one popping up every month about old discussed topics, these dumb threads need to stop. Yeah the search doesn't turn up shit, tough luck, you missed all the debates, people aren't gonna repeat themself over and over to new kids coming here to discuss old topics.

SRK is a competitive scene for competitive players, if you are looking for 'fun' over competition then you need to look for a different community like gamefaqs perhaps.

[HIGHDER]

^ this guy speaks the truth, as soon as i layed eyes on this thread i thought it was shit garbage

[Henaki]

Would this make Hugo vs Urien completely hopeless?

theres certain ranges where hugos pokes will beat mp fireballs clean

still it was already a terrible matchup to begin with and uriens s.MK pretty much rapes hugo unless he os parries lol

[ramza]

I think you actually need to read my posts.

"The competition is playing 3rd strike, not r3ko custom edit #5."

That sentence alone proved you hadn't read a thing i've posted. Also I think its pretty evident i do think for myself, i don't just follow what other people say on here like a puppy so i can be accepted, like some people :rolleyes:

your thread is worthless. you make a complete theory fighter thread, and even as far as theory fighter threads go, any end result of this " serious discussion" is still 100% useless. as for caliagents quote, it simply deads your thread. i think you're at LEAST smarter than a monkey so i'm not gonna list all the obvious reasons why taking parries out of 3rd would be bad. if you were thinking at all before you made the thread maybe you could've realized that. or maybe making pointless shit is just your thing.

and hey, sometimes people post your own thoughts before you get a chance to. so get off with that shit:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[EveryFlowerFlow]

3s threads like this are funny. Any topic or title/subject that questions the games supposed perfection results in mass responses of, "dumb topic", "stupid idea" etc and others getting all bent out of shape and defensive for no reason.

Yeah, this thread is stupid mostly because it's been done over and over, but why let it go on and on by even give the thread starter a reply beyond what caliagent said, because that's all that needed to be said. Now instead of having a topic end on the 3rd post it's spiraled onto the 3rd with no-one saying anything worth reading in between.

Why does everyone always wanna change 3S?

Jealousy.

[Rengoku]

it's sad that if you switch to neoempire you'll find the same exact topic

[Helter Skelter]

it's sad that if you switch to neoempire you'll find the same exact topic

No, what is sad. Is on Neoempire, it doesn't provoke such negative responses.

[Chipp Zanuff v5]

3s was developed with parries in mind. So turning it off would probably make the game unplayable

The game is already unplayable :VV

[r3ko]

Dude these kind of system direction changes topics for 3S are overkilled. Your thread isn't being taken seriously because it's been discussed, it's been over-discussed, and people are sick of a new one popping up every month about old discussed topics, these dumb threads need to stop. Yeah the search doesn't turn up shit, tough luck, you missed all the debates, people aren't gonna repeat themself over and over to new kids coming here to discuss old topics.

SRK is a competitive scene for competitive players, if you are looking for 'fun' over competition then you need to look for a different community like gamefaqs perhaps.

Hold on a second its not like i am some 2007 asking a random question. I've asked some good questions. And it doesn't really matter if its been discussed before, because people don't hold the same opinions and ideas for all eternity.

As i've said countless times now i am not looking to make everyone change how they play 3s, I'm not saying we should all be turning parries off. I as just trying to get answers for my original 4 questions, but everyone is blinded by the word parry, and need to get all defensive about it. Is that how weak parry is, you guys afraid of discussing it, cause it might expose it for what it really is, just a gimmick, that 3s could probably well live without?

Yes fighting games are about competition, but if thats the only thing you get from it and you lose the fun, whats the point in playing anymore? So you can perform some fancy Japanese setup? Or show how you can better than other people? Win a little money?

your thread is worthless. you make a complete theory fighter thread, and even as far as theory fighter threads go, any end result of this " serious discussion" is still 100% useless. as for caliagents quote, it simply deads your thread. i think you're at LEAST smarter than a monkey so i'm not gonna list all the obvious reasons why taking parries out of 3rd would be bad. if you were thinking at all before you made the thread maybe you could've realized that. or maybe making pointless shit is just your thing.

and hey, sometimes people post your own thoughts before you get a chance to. so get off with that shit:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

"your thread is worthless" Great reply. You really avoided the whole question there. I award you on your wishy washiness. All fighting games start with theory, or do you just play blindly without ever considering how you will play?

I'm well aware of what sort of ramifications there could be when you take parry out of the game, i just wanted other peoples input, because regardless what you may think, i know people don't all have the exact same thoughts. But apparently even thinking about taking out parry is against the law here.

3s threads like this are funny. Any topic or title/subject that questions the games supposed perfection results in mass responses of, "dumb topic", "stupid idea" etc and others getting all bent out of shape and defensive for no reason.

Yeah, this thread is stupid mostly because it's been done over and over, but why let it go on and on by even give the thread starter a reply beyond what caliagent said, because that's all that needed to be said. Now instead of having a topic end on the 3rd post it's spiraled onto the 3rd with no-one saying anything worth reading in between.

Jealousy.

This is not what the thread is about at all, originally anyway. The people that answered turned it into what it is now. I asked 4 simple questions, but they are too tough to answer, people hide behind the defense of "dumb thread", "idiot idea", cause they honestly got no decent answers.

And saying all this has been done before is a cop out too. Cause you'd probably gave that exact same answer in the previous threads.Where are all these mystery threads? No has posted what was found in those in relation in what i have asked.

it's sad that if you switch to neoempire you'll find the same exact topic

What is sad is that you fail to realise is that not everyone posts on Shoryuken for pretty obvious reasons. People don't know about/care it and its too hostile here.

Also i am staff at Neoempire, so why wouldn't i post the exact same thing there?

Anyway, someone might as well lock or close this thread, its pretty evident people don't want to discuss this. Too many sheep on here. I'm sure many of you after reading this will want to fire back, but don't bother yourself, cause i won't be reading, unless of course you just want to impress other 3s players with trolling skillz.

[Helter Skelter]

All fighting games start with theory, or do you just play blindly without ever considering how you will play?

Wow, that makes alot of sense. I'm using that for a sig.

[Aion]

This topic very strangely reminds me of doacentral.com :confused: And that's not a good thing.

[The Illuminati]

Which parries are you referring too? If it's regular parries, then no problem. But, if it's Red parries, then I disagree. I never got why Third Strike has two types of parries, because Red parries are enough in my opinion.

[Saotome Kaneda]

-What sort of consequences would that have on the gameplay?
-Would it make it a better or worse fighter?
-If say there was a tournament for 3s where parries where turned off, would regular 3s players not enter it?
-Would it encourage previous 3s naysayers to play it?

Even if I know you're not gonna read this(or maybe you will, since no one EVER means what they say on the internet if they continue to use that site), I'm gonna give you the same answers that have popped up in every last "3S Parries/No Parries????" thread since the damn game came out.

-It will make characters with strong pokes, zoning, frame traps and projectiles stronger. It will make anti-airs VERY viable. It will make people who are already disadvantaged even more disadvantaged(lack of at least one of the first mentioned properties, additional disadvantages like size, Hugo)

-It all depends on the BS that would evolve from being forced to block things that are free parries. Personally I think it would be worse, as there are already setups that you're forced to parry to get out of(air reset supers? Urien/Oro unblockables? SRK xx Denjin?

-Considering the entire dynamic of the game would change, the only ones that would play are the ones that are already open to Sys Dir, which aren't very many.

-I doubt Viscant would play it. lol j/k Seriously, I don't particularly like 3S(mostly because they raped Sean, but that's for another thread), but parry is a necessary evil. As the game is now there's no way it would even get the people that hate it to play it.

[TrueSephiroth]

With no parried i see the following as the tier list


Yun
Urien
Dudley
Ken
Yang
Remy
Akuma
Chun
Ryu
Oro
Others

I disagree with this tierlisting, Ryu and Gouki would be up there as Top Tier hands down, simply because Denjin-Ryu would now be a complete monster on any lvl, and almost the entire cast of 3S would have No Answer up against Gouki's Aerial Fireball, this would push Gouki to literally monster lvls. Since he'd be a freak with or w/out meter.

Jump-In's would definetly be dangerous, because things like Shoryuken could actually be used as Anti-Airs w/out fear of Parry. Hadouken's wouldn't be SF2 good, but they would actually be an obstacle, someone like Remy would become infinitely better.

I would also like to say that someone like Necro would go up the tier-listing, because he would be able to start zoning like how Sim did back in the SF2 days, instead of having to rushdown like the way he does in 3S.

However, as much as I myself do not like the Parry System, SFIII was intended with the Parry System in mind.

[Septimus Prime]

I think Alex would actually be a little better, since his pokes have decent priority (but just too many damn recovery frames. However, they are generally safe on block because they push you back) and he has awesome anti-air options. He's also fast enough to get in your face, where he needs to be. Of course, since I've never actually tried it, I wouldn't know for sure.

[The Illuminati]

Who would get worst?

[Gimpy]

Bottom line, this game needs parries. Some of the shit in this game is rediculious so that you need parries get passed it.

[Return of Shiki]

As much as I hate to admit it, taking away parries would make 3S even MORE boring.

[Goukisan]

Close da thread.

[Rengoku]

What is sad is that you fail to realise is that not everyone posts on Shoryuken for pretty obvious reasons. People don't know about/care it and its too hostile here.

Also i am staff at Neoempire, so why wouldn't i post the exact same thing there?

Anyway, someone might as well lock or close this thread, its pretty evident people don't want to discuss this. Too many sheep on here. I'm sure many of you after reading this will want to fire back, but don't bother yourself, cause i won't be reading, unless of course you just want to impress other 3s players with trolling skillz.


http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/introducing-the-scrub/

this is a good point to start off

another one can be the most obvious thing concerning fighting games:
no f***ing game out there is 100% balanced

in each game you have a god and a bottom tier regardless on how exactly they're far from each other

tier definition is in the win/lose matchup rate
obviously a god tier have an higher rate than a bottom one so he/she/it lead the game

then comes in the game engine that can help some characters to move in an higher or lower rank

but this is too theorical and no one seem to care about discussing it


let's get back to the first point.
the only thing that allow you to start a stupid discussion like this is the system direction in the option menu

trust me, if only that stupid option wasn't there a lot of this topics should never existed

btw 3s have parries and if you want to play it you have to accept and use them

3s programmers have worked around it and consequently balanced the game
removing them, via system directions or explicit ban will surely unbalance the game

quickly i can say that the most safe and aggressive pressing will be dominant
the beauty of parries is there, no one can rush blindly

at least if ppl kept playing 3s in its whole form for 10 years there's a reason
those 'new' balancing attempt make me laugh
they only seem cries from scrubs

[Marty]

Whilst this topic has been done to death, I just couldn't ignore Rengoku's post.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/introducing-the-scrub/

this is a good point to start off

another one can be the most obvious thing concerning fighting games:
no f***ing game out there is 100% balanced

in each game you have a god and a bottom tier regardless on how exactly they're far from each other

tier definition is in the win/lose matchup rate
obviously a god tier have an higher rate than a bottom one so he/she/it lead the game

then comes in the game engine that can help some characters to move in an higher or lower rank

but this is too theorical and no one seem to care about discussing it

This entire segment is tangential and unrelated. The OP is hypothetically minded from the get go. Stop trying to provoke drama.

let's get back to the first point.
the only thing that allow you to start a stupid discussion like this is the system direction in the option menu

This sentence makes so little sense it's not even funny. Even without the option in the menu, it's entirely possible to speculate about the absence of parries. Are you stupid? Besides, what was even your point in saying that?

trust me, if only that stupid option wasn't there a lot of this topics should never existed

Uh yeah? This is causality at work. Are you an imbecile?

btw 3s have parries and if you want to play it you have to accept and use them

Man, did you even read the first post? Never mind that, if someone said to you in an offhand manner: "Man, I wonder what it would be like if I were a woman" would you shout at him and say "BUT YOU AREN'T A WOMAN. IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE BEING A MAN JUST KILL YOURSELF. WHY ARE WE EVEN HAVING THIS CONVERSATION? GOD. FUCKING SCRUBS AT LIFE"?

at least if ppl kept playing 3s in its whole form for 10 years there's a reason
those 'new' balancing attempt make me laugh
they only seem cries from scrubs

PRESUMPTIONS ARE FUN.

Yeah, 3rd strike probably wouldn't be as good without parries, but it's not the point of this thread to ascertain whether it would be better, is it?

[Helter Skelter]

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/introducing-the-scrub/

this is a good point to start off

another one can be the most obvious thing concerning fighting games:
no f***ing game out there is 100% balanced

in each game you have a god and a bottom tier regardless on how exactly they're far from each other

tier definition is in the win/lose matchup rate
obviously a god tier have an higher rate than a bottom one so he/she/it lead the game

then comes in the game engine that can help some characters to move in an higher or lower rank

but this is too theorical and no one seem to care about discussing it


let's get back to the first point.
the only thing that allow you to start a stupid discussion like this is the system direction in the option menu

trust me, if only that stupid option wasn't there a lot of this topics should never existed

btw 3s have parries and if you want to play it you have to accept and use them

3s programmers have worked around it and consequently balanced the game
removing them, via system directions or explicit ban will surely unbalance the game

quickly i can say that the most safe and aggressive pressing will be dominant
the beauty of parries is there, no one can rush blindly

at least if ppl kept playing 3s in its whole form for 10 years there's a reason
those 'new' balancing attempt make me laugh
they only seem cries from scrubs

The thing is, R3ko never said "Take Parrying Out!". He simply asked forumers, what would be the theoretical outcome, from its ommission.

Very few people, were willing to answer that question.

[DanD]

Edited: nvm.

If you want to find out all the ramifications of playing 3S without parries, then play 3S without parries and then report back, soldier...

In the meantime.......

[Giza]

It would be cool to have a 3S no parry side tournament some times for the lulz. And it would prove how much 3S actually needs parry.

[Hawk]

OK, lets say hypothetically, we turned off Parries in 3s through the system directions menu.

-What sort of consequences would that have on the gameplay?
-Would it make it a better or worse fighter?
-If say there was a tournament for 3s where parries where turned off, would regular 3s players not enter it?
-Would it encourage previous 3s naysayers to play it?

Just for the record, i am not saying we should turn parries off in 3s, all i am saying is that maybe it might be interesting if there was a one off in the future, something totally separate, that would not interfere with anything else.

Just something i am throwing out there, for possible future reference.

I am not trying to cause hate or anything, so people please keep their hate out of this thread, serious discussion only please. If you can't handle that, don't post.

I concur, stop the flaming. It's an honest question.

Here's my scrubby input;

- Third strike was built on the parrying system, almost. Taking out parrying would have incredibly dire effects all across the board (As said, Denjinn Ryu would be god-tier, Hugo would suck, etc. )

- Better or worse fighter at what aspect? The game would still be fun (not better.). Technical-wise, you'd lose an entire dimension of strategy, but maybe that's a good thing?

- I'd enter it just for the hell of it. A change that radical is...interesting. I would want to see what happens. :wonder:

- Ehh...depends on the naysayer. I think other tweaks (air blocking, blah blah) would have to be made to get their interest.



It irks me that people jump to flame so quickly. Why would you put down an honest survey of opinion like that? I have a few of my own 3S "what-if"s. Let's see if they get burned as well?

- What if Oro didn't pull that arm-sealing crap? Obviously he's some sort of master in the game universe, yet he's low tier.

- Ryu's the hadoken master. Ken's the shoryuken master. What if Ken had Ryu's SA2?

- What if the game included all of a character's super arts (alpha style?)

- What if SF3 excluded Chun, Ken, Ryu and Akuma as originally planned?

- What if you could cancel a dash?


They're not serious questions. Just some pointless speculation.

[Hol Horse]

no parries would just make some matchups extremely stupid
Hugo vs Remy = no chance in the hell, it would be something like 11 to -1 in remy's favor
Denjin gets retarded
Yang can pressure all the day with safe slashes without the threat of parries agains any character with no good sho. I mean chipping away full health without any risk to be hit back.
Akuma vs Urien - Akuma gets close and starts with HK hurricane all the day. If Urien has no meter he can't do anything about that.

Yes the game has been heavily designed with parries in mind. Some moves were made extremely good, with broken hitboxes and/or extremely safe precisely because they can be countered with parries

hell the entire game turns into a stupid mess w/o parries

[DanD]

It irks me that people jump to flame so quickly. Why would you put down an honest survey of opinion like that? I have a few of my own 3S "what-if"s. Let's see if they get burned as well?

- What if Oro didn't pull that arm-sealing crap? Obviously he's some sort of master in the game universe, yet he's low tier.

- Ryu's the hadoken master. Ken's the shoryuken master. What if Ken had Ryu's SA2?

- What if the game included all of a character's super arts (alpha style?)

- What if SF3 excluded Chun, Ken, Ryu and Akuma as originally planned?

- What if you could cancel a dash?


They're not serious questions. Just some pointless speculation.

It has nothing to do with putting down an "honest survey of opinion" it has do to with already having heard this survey 5+ times....

And your question in bold has been done to death as well.

[J.D]

The game would be broken CFE like

[DietSoap]

Man, did you even read the first post? Never mind that, if someone said to you in an offhand manner: "Man, I wonder what it would be like if I were a woman" would you shout at him and say "BUT YOU AREN'T A WOMAN. IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE BEING A MAN JUST KILL YOURSELF. WHY ARE WE EVEN HAVING THIS CONVERSATION? GOD. FUCKING SCRUBS AT LIFE"? :rofl:

Seriously guys, it's a THOUGHT. No threat.

[FMJaguar]

-What sort of consequences would that have on the gameplay?

First of all, it would not play like ST. Fireballs would still do no damage, never dizzy you, the only purpose would be to stall the match until someone got inside again.

Parries are the most obvious change, so they get to be the poster child, but 3s was just designed to play differently than a sf2 game.

-Would it make it a better or worse fighter?

Worse, it would be like putting parry into a sf2 game.

-If say there was a tournament for 3s where parries where turned off, would regular 3s players not enter it?

If the tournament is in the same game, it has to be really different and interesting. Doing that to 3s involves a lot more than "parries are banned".

-Would it encourage previous 3s naysayers to play it?

A lot of people would call me a '3s naysayer', but I still play the game as is. I would like to see the gameplay improved, but removing parry doesn't improve the game like say... removing akuma from ST.

Just for the record, i am not saying we should turn parries off in 3s, all i am saying is that maybe it might be interesting if there was a one off in the future, something totally separate, that would not interfere with anything else.

One-off tournaments in anything aren't a good idea IMO. The first couple tournaments in anything are won by the people that find the best exploit/trap/tactic and hide it. As the tournaments go on, everything becomes discovered, and tournaments become a lot more competitive and exciting. If there's just going to be one tourney ever, mightaswell just cancel it and see if it works in casual.

[Master Bigode]

A lot of people would call me a '3s naysayer', but I still play the game as is. I would like to see the gameplay improved, but removing parry doesn't improve the game like say... removing O.Sagat from ST.
Fixed for you.
People don't really use Akuma, since he is banned from tournaments.:P

[Rengoku]

Whilst this topic has been done to death, I just couldn't ignore Rengoku's post.

first of all

CALM DOWN

you're not talking with your sister nor your mom
save your anger for them
or at least take some valium drop before entering a discussion about videogames

that's the worst thing to deal when i come over srk
ppl seem to warm too easily here

you post an opinion and if you don't like it the retardness start, neg rep, isults etc etc
wow i think you're a 15yo kid with rude-wannabe attitude

take it easy man



This entire segment is tangential and unrelated. The OP is hypothetically minded from the get go. Stop trying to provoke drama.

only scrubs think to change what they suppose to be 'unbalanced' or 'broken'
in order to save the world from cheapness

don't you know that if you ban the most imba thing
what become the new imba is the second 'broken' thing in the game?

in 3s if you remove parry, as i said before, the most aggressive style win
what comes next?ban the aggressive characters?or allow parry only against aggressive characters?



This sentence makes so little sense it's not even funny. Even without the option in the menu, it's entirely possible to speculate about the absence of parries. Are you stupid? Besides, what was even your point in saying that?

the entire argument is stupid

it's like to argue 'oh what if sun was cold?'
and what if 3s being kof?and kof being guilty gear?
what if sf2x without fireballs?

are you able to understand that is stupid?


Uh yeah? This is causality at work. Are you an imbecile?

save insults for your sister
as i told before


Man, did you even read the first post? Never mind that, if someone said to you in an offhand manner: "Man, I wonder what it would be like if I were a woman" would you shout at him and say "BUT YOU AREN'T A WOMAN. IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE BEING A MAN JUST KILL YOURSELF. WHY ARE WE EVEN HAVING THIS CONVERSATION? GOD. FUCKING SCRUBS AT LIFE"?

that's the point
what's the goal in making such stupid discussion?

[DS]

Fixed for you.
People don't really use Akuma, since he is banned from tournaments.:P

You kinda missed the point. Removing Akuma kept the game playable. Leaving Akuma playable made ST unplayable.

[The Illuminati]

@R3KO

How about playing Third Strike and find out for yourself. Then post the results on a thread about it.

[X-Sapphire]

@R3KO

How about playing Third Strike and find out for yourself. Then post the results on a thread about it.

qft

Seriously if you are any decent at the game or even have a good understanding of the game, it's pretty obvious what changes would occur if you disable parrying.

The depth of this discussion is like making a thread about how would a peanut butter sandwich taste like without the peanut butter inside it? :rolleyes:

[DS]

The depth of this discussion is like making a thread about how would a peanut butter sandwich taste like without the peanut butter inside it? :rolleyes:

That's actually debatable. OR, at least decreasing the Peanut Butter to Jelly ratio in Jelly's favor. White bread also tastes a lot better with PB&J. I've done it with wheat bread and it just leaves a horrible after taste.

Anyway, yeah, turning parry off would just make the game weird. Urien would be so much better.

[ramza]

so why then does every sf4 thread get immediately closed, but this question can be asked 10 times and each time it won't be closed till the bitter end?:wonder:

[FMJaguar]

so why then does every sf4 thread get immediately closed, but this question can be asked 10 times and each time it won't be closed till the bitter end?:wonder:

Playing sf4 is impossible, having a 3s tournament without parries is possible, just not a great idea IMO.

[shoultzula]

wtf, this is the worst idea ever. Denjin ryu would be broke along with tons of other shit. You need parries in this game because the game was designed around it. Simply taking them out and then playing as if they were never there would only fuck the game up more.

[purifyweirdsoul]

no no let's just ban kara cancelling ahaha

[masher]

qft


The depth of this discussion is like making a thread about how would a peanut butter sandwich taste like without the peanut butter inside it? :rolleyes:

is the PB creamy or crunchy and the bread white or wheat?

What if a sandwich has no PB but the actual bread it self has a PB flavored coating to it? :amazed:


the chicken or the egg my friend?

[One Hit Combo]

I hate how every fucking topic has people that go, "OMG HERE WE GO AGAIN LOL"


Guess what, assholes?


We're talking about games made 5+ years ago on this website. We have discussed everything. Stop being retarded.

[KayinNasaki]

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/introducing-the-scrub/

this is a good point to start off

another one can be the most obvious thing concerning fighting games:
no f***ing game out there is 100% balanced


Man, as much as I love Sirlin's Playing to Win Articles, they cause me a good deal of annoyance.

First annoyance is people that think throwing 5 times in a row and sandbagging is playing to win, seemingly at the exclusion of actual skill. But the relevant second annoyance is people completely misunderstanding and misquote it.

First off. Theres nothing scrubby about hypotheticals and even in the articles it mentioned tournaments that allow for various house rules (especially enforceable ones, like with the System Directory). But this has nothing to do with balance or anything. It's messing around. It's a thought experiment. It's not about parries being cheap (The OP went out of the way to point this out).

This is only one of a few mistakes.

only scrubs think to change what they suppose to be 'unbalanced' or 'broken'
in order to save the world from cheapness

don't you know that if you ban the most imba thing
what become the new imba is the second 'broken' thing in the game?


Where did you pull this 'save the world from cheapness' crap, man? Theorizing to what would make a game better (or in this case, simply how a change many changed the game) is scrubby? As a game designer, I'm sure Sirlin would call you a 'tard for making that point. Top ST players are helping rebalance HD Remix? Is THAT scrubby? Come on.

Anyways, who cares if the new second most broken thing is now the best? It's quite possible the second most broken thing in the game is significantly less good then the previous most broken thing. We have ST Akuma here as a perfect example of this. Oh, sure, now O. Sagat is the most broken (Or Sim or Claw or whatever~), but O. Sagat being the best is infinitely preferable. Hell, Japanese soft ban O. Sagat, allowing even MORE viable characters.

Granted, again, this thread has nothing to do on whither parries or too good, or broken or anything. It's a hypothetical and an experiment. So please, don't misquote Sirlin. :( It cheapens his work.

--

Anyways, 3s with no Parries/Airblocking sounds like it'd be fun casually, but the moment anyone took it seriously it'd be pretty brutal. I think a more interesting change would be making certain moves unparryable, such as Shoryus while in the air, or fireballs. Granted this could not be done with the SysDir, nor would it still produce a better game.... But if a revision was done, I think those changes could have some merit. Then again there are tons of possible changes to parries that would make a SFIII game more diverse (Different command with whiff animation~).

[Aion]

I hate how every fucking topic has people that go, "OMG HERE WE GO AGAIN LOL"


Guess what, assholes?


We're talking about games made 5+ years ago on this website. We have discussed everything. Stop being retarded.
Lmao :rofl:

*****

[goodm0urning]

I hate how every fucking topic has people that go, "OMG HERE WE GO AGAIN LOL"Know why people say that here? Because there was a lengthy thread covering exactly the same shit just a few months ago.

[n8archer_XI]

Without parries, we wouldn't have such godly Justin Wong 3S comebacks and such, because they're mostly based on combo breaks (with minimal health) using parries...

[Goukisan]

I've done it with wheat bread and it just leaves a horrible after taste.

Nigga, you just don't understand the subtle flavor wheat brings to peanut butter and jelly. Only creamy however, we like nuts in nothing in the Bay.

[Rengoku]

Man, as much as I love Sirlin's Playing to Win Articles, they cause me a good deal of annoyance.

First annoyance is people that think throwing 5 times in a row and sandbagging is playing to win, seemingly at the exclusion of actual skill. But the relevant second annoyance is people completely misunderstanding and misquote it.

First off. Theres nothing scrubby about hypotheticals and even in the articles it mentioned tournaments that allow for various house rules (especially enforceable ones, like with the System Directory). But this has nothing to do with balance or anything. It's messing around. It's a thought experiment. It's not about parries being cheap (The OP went out of the way to point this out).

This is only one of a few mistakes.


on the other side i've found sirlin's pretty interesting
the fun thing is that you're saying exactly what sirlin claim as scrubby

btw you misunderstand what he say
he don't tell to throw 5 times in a row to win
he tell that if your opponent is weak against throws why would it be a bad idea?get close and throw until death
obviously 5 time throwing is only an example, another one can be a simple fireball+dp strategy or empty jump then low combo

tell me the purpose in switching an effective tactic risking to lose a tournament.
the 'actual skill' you mention also is the ability to find opponent's weakness and exploit

that's the mentality of the winner




Where did you pull this 'save the world from cheapness' crap, man? Theorizing to what would make a game better (or in this case, simply how a change many changed the game) is scrubby? As a game designer, I'm sure Sirlin would call you a 'tard for making that point. Top ST players are helping rebalance HD Remix? Is THAT scrubby? Come on.

you can theorize whatever you want

in fact most ppl here once heard 'remove parry from 3s' screamed IMBA! just because experts or even someone that have a little idea of 3s gameplay already know what changes will be removing such important thing like parry system

so, to me, it's stupid to enforce trying to modify something that you already know effects

HD remix rebalance?
man, i hope you know that in whatever game before its release some beta tests take place
so, your statement is pointless

btw i have to admit that i was remembering that HD remix would have been only an old 2X with better graphics..so it'll be a new and 'fresh' game instead

[Helter Skelter]

Rengoku, your a moron.

[Marty]

Mindless nonsense that suggests having not properly read what has been said.

I can only hope that what you have said here, and prior to this post come from a direct result of a lack of adequate command and understanding of the English language.

Failing that, may god have mercy on our souls.

(Please ignore the subtle irony in this post)

[KayinNasaki]

btw you misunderstand what he say
he don't tell to throw 5 times in a row to win
he tell that if your opponent is weak against throws why would it be a bad idea?get close and throw until death
obviously 5 time throwing is only an example, another one can be a simple fireball+dp strategy or empty jump then low combo


Dude, I said people who DON'T GET THAT drive me insane. I take no issue in what Sirlin said or intended Though..

the 'actual skill' you mention also is the ability to find opponent's weakness and exploit it ... I think this statement is untrue. Actual skill is a lot of things (including finding weaknesses and exploitig -- in fact thats one of the biggest one) and none of them stand alone. Poking, zoning, spacing, knowing the match up, knowing your mixups and combos and being able to execute them. Any sort of mind games or exploitation of any weakness hinges deeply on these skills.

I'm weak to overheads. But a lot of times it doesn't matter, when a lot of times people don't have the skill to get in and exploit it -- and when they do get in, they don't have the skill to get the most damage out of it.

man, i hope you know that in whatever game before its release some beta tests take place so, your statement is pointless

So it gets beta testing? So what? Assuming alternative and viable games could be generated from stull like 3S System Direction (Probably not, but theoretically), and the OP was actually advocating a serious push toward Non Parry game play, don't you think they'd play it and tweak the options? It'd.. well.. basically be beta testing.

aaaa why am I wasting my time. After he's done with Writing Well, Sirlin should write some articles called Reading Well.

edit: I have realized, due to your location, that yeah, you're understanding of english might not be too great. Still, if that IS the case, you might not want to jump on people like that.

[pherai]

Man, reading some of these theories about how the game would be different w/o parry is making my eyes bleed.

Heres a good what if?

What if more of you played the game at an at least intermediate level before participating in these stupid speculation threads?

[Helter Skelter]

Man, reading some of these theories about how the game would be different w/o parry is making my eyes bleed.

Heres a good what if?

What if more of you played the game at an at least intermediate level before participating in these stupid speculation threads?

Thats stupid, to make a statement.
With such a baseless assumption.

I myself have played this game at an intermediate level (at least). I believe many other have also.

[Master Chibi]

How about instead of turning parries off you TURN OFF YOUR DAMN PS2 or PULL THE ELECTRICAL CORD OUT OF THE SOCKET THAT THE CABINET IS PLUGGED INTO.

[Chipp Zanuff v5]

The game is already unplayable :VV

^ i think this sums it up

How about instead of turning parries off you TURN OFF YOUR DAMN PS2 or PULL THE ELECTRICAL CORD OUT OF THE SOCKET THAT THE CABINET IS PLUGGED INTO.

Amen

[Tigerboi]

R3ko, I'm not going to be childish like most of the guys who's posted here. But just listen to this:


The parry was put into 3s for a reason, without it the following would happen:

dejin-ryu would be broken.

the lack of absolute would have no point.

Yun would get even better.

Chun's SA1 would be the cheapest juggle of all time.

The game would overall become slower and....less fun.

turning off the parry in 3s would just be like turning off the assists in Marvel. It just couldn't work.

[{PFH}-Lake]

I dont think people would use fireball traps that much since the game is slow. Fireball traps worked in ST because the game is fast and you take more damage. Chun and Ken would still be top since they have good pokes and good combos that take off a lot of life.

Turning the assists in Marvel is other story cause the tiers would be a lot different.

[drobizh]

best thing on srk is the tetris