New Captain America, Plus New Costume

[Overworld]

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/newdesign.html

I haven't been as up on Marvel lately, as I sorta lost interest halfway through Civil War, but I've been peeking in from time to time, and was wondering what people think of this "new" Captain America.

Do you like the design? Who do you think it is?

Personally I think the design is cool, the black is a bit overwhelming to the design to me, had the design worked the blue back into the shoes I think it would have balanced it a lot better.

Plus Cap carrying a gun and a knife? It would sure smell like Bucky, but that's why I think it isn't. So I've got no clue.

[Windlord0]

"It's the punisher." was the first thought I had upon seeing those pics, and didn't he take the mask at the end of civil war. Marvel always has surprises in store so I don' t think they'll go with that.

[Daigo Jr]

wings on his head remind me of the flash...

that's all i want to say.

[subaru84]

Maybe Clint Barton's little wet dream comes true?

[Daigo Jr]

Maybe Clint Barton's little wet dream comes true?

lol.

i just realised he had a gun, that makes me think less of him:arazz:

[kane_warhead]

lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq2_YKQGE_U

[maxx]

its a skrull. lol. run for it!

[RockBogart]

I think its the Cap from post-WW2 era that they bring into modern day. They've been talking about that for a few months now.

[Tigerboi]

"It's the punisher." was the first thought I had upon seeing those pics, and didn't he take the mask at the end of civil war. Marvel always has surprises in store so I don' t think they'll go with that.

Frank castle was already decked out in a outfit that was tribute to steve iirc

If it ain't steve, it ain't cap.

[jae hoon]

If it isnt Steve who cares, still the dumbest thing Marvel has done in years killing him.

[Tigerboi]

yeah, not feeling the gun at all. :(

[maxx]

seeing cap with a gun is like seeing batman with a gun.

blasphemy

[Adam Warlock]

Okay, this is irking me. Sano can you fix the title to Captain instead of Captian?

[hold dat]

i like the suit...i dont think its Bucky under there. gotta lose the gun though

interesting to see who it'll be under there

[Tigerboi]

seeing cap with a gun is like seeing batman with a gun.

blasphemy

hehehe, some batman concept art would give you a heart attack

[Sano]

He used a gun in World War II. Images of old covers later.

Thread title fixed.

[Sano]

Old movie serial Captain America. Props to Johnny Triangles of Newsarama for finding this image.

http://www.saturdayactionmatinee.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/captainamerica-ch1-5.jpg

Old covers:

http://stlcomics.com/columns/tftlof/1/gallery/allselect1.jpg

http://stlcomics.com/columns/tftlof/1/gallery/allselect2.jpg

http://stlcomics.com/columns/tftlof/1/gallery/allselect5.jpg

Bucky too:

http://stlcomics.com/columns/tftlof/1/gallery/allwinners10.jpg

Big up to CJM of Newsarama for digging up those covers.

LEARN YOUR COMIC BOOK HISTORY LIKE BRUBAKER DID! :rofl:

[Overworld]

Heh, sorry about the thread title, it was 4AM...my typing skills deteriorate after 2AM. At least that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

[DS]

I think it's Bucky.

[4Play]

Here's an interview with THE BRU and Alex Ross about the costume
Link (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=132706)

[Carpet Lint]

Kinda neat how they incorporated the triangular shield look into the chest piece thing they got going there.

I've always thought Alex Ross had some cool ideas for costume redesigns (Kingdom Come, Earth X) and this one's kinda neat as well.

But the black is overwhelming, I agree. They didn't even give him boots or anything to balance it out - I keep thinking of how he's going to look in interiors...and it's going to be wack. Imagine him running through a dark alley or something - he's just going to be this big chest piece floating around with a pair disembodied hands (...holding a gun).

The design's way too top heavy. And yeah, that's exactly what we've all dreamed of since we read our first Captain America comic - Captain America capping and stabbing motherfuckers. Still can't believe they killed him. Just stupid, and in my honest opinion, did nothing to significant improve Civil War or make it that much more memorable - I think it already had enough to stand on its own.

[FreddyL0c0]

the bottom half of his cotume is bizarre....I agree with Lint about the overuse of black in his design

[Sheng-Long]

Decent design, but I never understood the concept of having a utility belt without a belt buckle.

...and why does he have a flask? Is this Captain America an alcoholic? or is going to missions where dehydration will be a problem?

What's in the pouches?

[maxx]

if its bucky imma be pissed..bucky became his own badass character and doesn't need to be in the shadow of cap. bucky has alot potential stories they could do..more adult ones..i think they could do some really cool stuff with him.

[Zephyranthes]

Still can't believe they killed him. Just stupid, and in my honest opinion, did nothing to significant improve Civil War or make it that much more memorable - I think it already had enough to stand on its own.

What the hell is wrong with you today? Lol, you upset that the Raptors lost to Real Madrid in that preaseason game? REAL MADRID. Haha. I don't even know what state Real Madrid is based in - that's how ignorant I am of the world beyond America. But that's all right. Bosh didn't play so maybe you can tell yourself that it didn't count or lower your team's morale and pride. There's still enough time for them to regroup for the season.

I expected you to made of sterner stuff, though. Where's your faith in the great Bru? Have you even been reading Captain America? The Church of Bru will give you another chance to retract your blasphemy before we decide to excommunicate you, track you down, and murder your entire family line. (But we'd leave you alive so you can suffer alone.)

-----

And yeah, Steve Rogers used guns and knives. Back in the day, he used deadly force against Nazis. Even after he was revived in the modern world, he killed occasionally. He wasn't cruel about it, but he did what he had to do to defend himself - and by extension, AMERICA, baby, AMERICA. AMERICA FUCK YEAH

You think that A on his head stands for France?

This new Cap ain't Steve Rogers, but that's sort of the point. The series has become an examination of who Captain America is and what he represents. And anyone who doesn't like it can LICK MY BUTT AND SUCK ON MY BALLS!! Great youtube clip, kaney. I've already watched it 94,465 times and counting.

[Carpet Lint]

That's fucked up that we got beat by Real Madrid, even though we pretty much already took their two best players. Bosh or no Bosh...the fact that we got out rebounded by like 20 against a bunch of guys who would be amazed by running and drinkable tap water (okay, that might be an inaccurate statement) is just not good. The Toronto Raptors are the only NBA franchise to have been beaten by TWO European teams in pre-season contests. We got like buzzer beaten by Maccabi Tel Aviv the year before...ironically, it was Anthony Parker our current starting SG that did it.

God I feel sick.

JUST STOP TALKING

Now that Cap's dead and the Canadian dollar has reached and exceed parity with the US dollar, two of my top three reasons for ever living to the states are moot.

[RockBogart]

seeing cap with a gun is like seeing batman with a gun.

blasphemy

Uh no. You mean to tell me you have never seen him use a gun? :lol:

[Carpet Lint]

And Batman capped a fool in DKR too. Everyone uses guns now, it's the cool thing to do.

[Zephyranthes]

Bob Kane had Batman use a gun in some of those really early adventures. And Todd McFarlane drew a comic where Batman held a pistol.

One of those two is valid.

[Carpet Lint]

Hey Zephy, just because it's from like the 1940's and it's Pre-Crisis doesn't mean it doesn't count.

[goodm0urning]

Yeah, Bats used a side arm for quite a few adventures, actually, until around the time of the Kefauver hearings.

But, near as I can remember, although he used plenty of explosives in DKR and even used guns a couple of times, he never actually shot anybody.

[str[e]ak]

i like the design of the costume minus all the shiny parts. anybody remember cap's armor costume?

[goodm0urning]

I realized I forgot to deliver my long-awaited opinion of the costume:

It's crap. Modern comic book costume design 101. Start with Solid Snake's sneaking suit as a template and tack on crap until it's just different enough to avoid copyright problems. Bada bing.

[Zephyranthes]

But, near as I can remember, although he used plenty of explosives in DKR and even used guns a couple of times, he never actually shot anybody.

He drove a giant tank. And shot at a buncha mutants. But he did look at the camera with a wink and say, "Rubber bullets. Trust me."

[Shadowhaxor]

Its gotta be Bucky (Winter Solider). Remember, Castle gave him the bag with the suit last issue and told him the mask was in one of the remaining 3 safe points of his and to go find it. Plus Castle is to big, that looks like Bucky.

[Carpet Lint]

No, remember right before the scene where he drags that two hundred pound mutant up on that skyscraper ("the scream alone is worth it") he's rescuing this kind from these mutant gang members.

The last guys...he breaks through the wall behind one with the big ass machine gun, and the last guy is holding the kid, and he's going like "BELIEVE ME MAN, I"M GONNA SHOOT HIM"

And then Batman just straight up caps the guy with the machine gun...and goes "I believe you."

Those aren't verbatim because I don't have the book in front of me right now, but it should be pretty close.

It's another really cool scene from DKR, but for some reason completely forgotten and never brought up in Batman and guns discussions - the only other reference is like a 1940's Bob Kane panel where Batman's capping some dude in a coffin or something with a regular handgun.

But it happened in DKR. Different continuity, but still one of the most important and most famous Batman stories ever...and no one remembers it. I barely remembered it myself - like I caught it like maybe the fourth time through it or something. Weird, it never really sticks out at you - maybe because there's a bit of a conflict with the idea of Batman and killing with the whole Joker scene at the end and how he doesn't have the guts to finish him. It's like...it almost doesn't work as well when you remember that he's already just shot a normal mutant at the beginning of the book.

[goodm0urning]

I'll be damned; you're right. Luckily, Batman's prior use of firearms probably gave Miller just enough wiggle room to get away with it.

[4Play]

L
O
L

Found this at a Newsarama thread:Pic (http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w45/piratedcaveman/CAP.jpg)

and thisFem Cap, GTFO w that shit (http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee286/domino1987/shecap.jpg)

[supaman]

he had a us agent vibe/look to him

Marvel could've at least gave him a better gun

[RockBogart]

Yeah, Bats used a side arm for quite a few adventures, actually, until around the time of the Kefauver hearings.

But, near as I can remember, although he used plenty of explosives in DKR and even used guns a couple of times, he never actually shot anybody.

He may not have shot someone but he sure has fucked up quite a few of Ras AlGhul's boys using a sword. I think he decaped one of them.

[DS]

if its bucky imma be pissed..bucky became his own badass character and doesn't need to be in the shadow of cap. bucky has alot potential stories they could do..more adult ones..i think they could do some really cool stuff with him.

There's nothing really adult about Bucky. I mean, if you consider Bucky shooting someone where Cap would have just thrown his shield "adult", then I guess....But, Captain America is far and away a Marvel mainstay. It's all a setup, really. The world DOES need a Captain America. Steve will be back, you'll see.

[goodm0urning]

He may not have shot someone but he sure has fucked up quite a few of Ras AlGhul's boys using a sword. I think he decaped one of them.He definitely shoots a guy in DKR. Page 64.

[BBCampbell]

See all that black?

You know what that tells me?

In preparation for the movie costume, that's what it tells me...

[One Hit Combo]

Eh.


It's not... terrible. I don't think the tiny sidearm really does him justice. He needs a star-spangled shotgun that fires confetti and freedom.

Now that'd rock.

[ViciousSLASH]

Alex Ross is a pussy.

You know what irks me about all of comics? Why put those pouches on characters when they NEVER use them. Didn't we learn anything from the dark ages? ( aka the 90s )

Oh well, I don't even read comics anymore. Is Captain America still as good as it was? I stopped when Master Man and his Master Men fought Cap on that ship. Bucky was doing....something....whatever.

[New Era Outlaw]

If it isnt Steve who cares, still the dumbest thing Marvel has done in years killing him.

I agree. Then again, remember what Wolverine said once:

"There ain't no Pearly Gates up there. Only revolving doors."

Believe you me. They want Steve Rogers back, they'll make Steve Rogers come back. And probably put a Skrull in his coffin, or something.

[RockBogart]

He definitely shoots a guy in DKR. Page 64.

I know that. The whole "I don't kill thing" is stupid and DC needs to drop it since we've seen hes capable of doing it on multiple occasions.

[goodm0urning]

I know that. The whole "I don't kill thing" is stupid and DC needs to drop it since we've seen hes capable of doing it on multiple occasions.I agree. It's an oversimplification to bar all the majors from killing in any instance whatsoever. I can see how it would be necessary when your main audience is made up of ten year old boys who don't yet have the capacity to sort through a complex moral issue, but comics readers have aged since then.

At the same time, the characters don't need to all become the grim 'n' gritty cookie cutter anti-heroes like in the 90s. I would have no problem if they started integrating discretionary lethal force, similar to police officers.

Superman, however, should still refrain from killing, I'd say. It's an integral part of his personality that he does as little harm as possible to beings physically weaker than himself, which is just about anybody in the DCU. It's more important to him specifically than as a general credo that applies to everybody.

And I do prefer that Batman has a revulsion towards fighting crime with handguns. It makes sense for his character. It isn't that he CAN'T fire a handgun at another man, but that he WON'T.

[RockBogart]

Superman, however, should still refrain from killing, I'd say. It's an integral part of his personality that he does as little harm as possible to beings physically weaker than himself, which is just about anybody in the DCU. It's more important to him specifically than as a general credo that applies to everybody.


I dunno about that. There are certain Superman villains that deserve to be killed for the simple fact their threat is too large. Like when he killed General Zod's cronies. And don't forget Darkseid's crew. He doesn't hold anything back when dealing with them. I remember Batman saying once that if Superman wanted to kill Lex, he wouldn't stop him. And dont forget that one cat from the Our Worlds At War arc. He had to put those dudes down. It was funny when he flew around the sun and came back. The collective "Oh Shit" look was priceless :rofl:

[goodm0urning]

Superman's whole thing is that he has godlike power, and he doesn't believe it's his right as a visitor of Earth to meddle too deeply in the affairs of Earthlings. He doesn't like pushing people around, partly because they're not as strong as he is, but also partly because they're rightfully here and he isn't. That's why I say it makes sense as a part of his character, instead of being part of some mindlessly enforced overarching rule.

And it's not that he should be utterly incapable of killing, but the only time I think it was really well handled was when he killed Mxysptlk and then gave up his powers as penance. Rather than just being your typical "ZOMG villain X is TOO STRONG and he must be destruxx0rz 4 all of humanity!!!1" DC Comics story, it was used as an opportunity to illustrate Superman's devotion to justice and his views on the use of power. That's storytelling.

[Debaser]

This reminds me of the Justice League ep where Supes actually DID kill Lex. I personally like that Superman much better. You wanna fuck around? Insta-lobotomy.

[Zephyranthes]

Yup. That's why we've got Majestic, and Apollo and the Authority: to vicariously live all of our darkest and most depraved Superman sexual fantasies.

[kane_warhead]

Superman's whole thing is that he has godlike power, and he doesn't believe it's his right as a visitor of Earth to meddle too deeply in the affairs of Earthlings. He doesn't like pushing people around, partly because they're not as strong as he is, but also partly because they're rightfully here and he isn't. That's why I say it makes sense as a part of his character, instead of being part of some mindlessly enforced overarching rule.


Are you kidding me? He always pushes people around to DO WHAT HE THINKS IS THE RIGHT THING. He always think he is right. That's why he's boring as a character... Writers always writes him as infallible, when infact when he's fallible does the story really works.


And it's not that he should be utterly incapable of killing, but the only time I think it was really well handled was when he killed Mxysptlk and then gave up his powers as penance. Rather than just being your typical "ZOMG villain X is TOO STRONG and he must be destruxx0rz 4 all of humanity!!!1" DC Comics story, it was used as an opportunity to illustrate Superman's devotion to justice and his views on the use of power. That's storytelling.

The whole story is awesome because Alan Moore knew how to write a good superman story. He always wrote Superman as a flawed being which really works. Hell do you even remember when Superman said "BURN!"

[goodm0urning]

Are you kidding me? He always pushes people around to DO WHAT HE THINKS IS THE RIGHT THING. He always think he is right. That's why he's boring as a character... Writers always writes him as infallible, when infact when he's fallible does the story really works.Not to be elitist about it, but any writer who writes him like that isn't writing Superman. The only person who ever rightfully wrote a story in which Superman heedlessly put humans under his boot on a regular basis was Jerry Siegel.

The whole story is awesome because Alan Moore knew how to write a good superman story. He always wrote Superman as a flawed being which really works. Hell do you even remember when Superman said "BURN!"Yes, I've read both stories a number of times, and this is what I was getting at the whole time: when you get a writer who really knows the character, then you get stories that actually make use of who the character is.

Most of DC's guys try to turn Superman into either a self-doubting pantywaist or an unthinking asshole, two things which simply are not in his character. They do this in an effort to compensate for the fact that they haven't given any thought as to how they can use Superman's unique traits to their advantage. They always try to turn him into somebody else, somebody they're more comfortable writing.

It's easy to write a character who comes across as the gritty anti-hero, and it's easy to write a character who constantly has an inner struggle that negatively affects everything he does. Those are modern Comic Book 101 archetypes. It's much harder to write Superman, a character who is morally upright yet multi-faceted, so most writers don't bother--even when they're supposed to. They just write a guy who wears the uniform and answers to the name of Superman, even though he's anything but.

[kane_warhead]

Not to be elitist about it, but any writer who writes him like that isn't writing Superman. The only person who ever rightfully wrote a story in which Superman heedlessly put humans under his boot on a regular basis was Jerry Siegel.

Yes, I've read both stories a number of times, and this is what I was getting at the whole time: when you get a writer who really knows the character, then you get stories that actually make use of who the character is.

Most of DC's guys try to turn Superman into either a self-doubting pantywaist or an unthinking asshole, two things which simply are not in his character. They do this in an effort to compensate for the fact that they haven't given any thought as to how they can use Superman's unique traits to their advantage. They always try to turn him into somebody else, somebody they're more comfortable writing.

It's easy to write a character who comes across as the gritty anti-hero, and it's easy to write a character who constantly has an inner struggle that negatively affects everything he does. Those are modern Comic Book 101 archetypes. It's much harder to write Superman, a character who is morally upright yet multi-faceted, so most writers don't bother--even when they're supposed to. They just write a guy who wears the uniform and answers to the name of Superman, even though he's anything but.

When Jerry Siegel was still writing Superman, his character was ruthless and a jerk. That was his character before the modern Superman. He isn't multifaceted, he was just being written by different writers... Because they can't even find a common ground for what Superman's character really is. Alan Moore tried to dehumanized him(It works because he wrote a great reason for him to act that way), as so many others. They wrote him being capable of human error.

But the problem is no one knows what his character really is. You said that he doesn't want to meddle in human affairs, when ALMOST ALL OF HIS STORIES are of him meddling in Human affairs. ALso another problem is we have no idea how he grew up. We have red son, man of steel, the old superman stories, smallville, he has no motivation to really help the world, other than being told he was given a good upbringing by his adopted parents. He has no motivation, he has no characterization, the only constant we have with him is He's an alien trying to fit in a world of humans.

Now how could it makes sense that he must refrain from killing? Because of what? Because he always listens to his momma? Superman is nonsense.

[Zephyranthes]

Now how could it makes sense that he must refrain from killing? Because of what? Because he always listens to his momma? Superman is nonsense.

Yes. Because he always listens to his mom. I'm not being sarcastic here.

Superman exists to provide hope. He's the anti-cynic. He's every positive ideal you can think of rolled up into one. He is the being that we could never hope to be. He doesn't kill because he never needs to. He will find a solution to any problem. If Superman kills, then it means he's failed. And Superman doesn't fail.

You can feel that it's nonsense if you want to, but I'd like to believe that there are people who find these qualities of Superman (and Superman himself) worthy of admiration and respect, and who ultimately find him inspiring, uplifting, and hopeful.

[Tigerboi]

I think it'll be hawkeye

[jae hoon]

Honestly I think Superman shouldnt kill people, he is the one superhero who shouldnt do it. It really just wouldnt look good on his character. If DC ever turned Superman into a killer it would be the worst decision they ever made.

[kane_warhead]

Yes. Because he always listens to his mom. I'm not being sarcastic here.

Superman exists to provide hope. He's the anti-cynic. He's every positive ideal you can think of rolled up into one. He is the being that we could never hope to be. He doesn't kill because he never needs to. He will find a solution to any problem. If Superman kills, then it means he's failed. And Superman doesn't fail.

You can feel that it's nonsense if you want to, but I'd like to believe that there are people who find these qualities of Superman (and Superman himself) worthy of admiration and respect, and who ultimately find him inspiring, uplifting, and hopeful.

How did he become a beacon of hope?

also how can he become anti-cynic when as I quote goodm0urning

Superman's whole thing is that he has godlike power, and he doesn't believe it's his right as a visitor of Earth to meddle too deeply in the affairs of Earthlings. He doesn't like pushing people around, partly because they're not as strong as he is, but also partly because they're rightfully here and he isn't. That's why I say it makes sense as a part of his character, instead of being part of some mindlessly enforced overarching rule.

He can't be the symbol if he doesn't want to meddle in Earth affairs. Hell He even sided with the Allies during WW2.... I know it's retconned, but with Final Crisis, I doubt it would still be.

I'm just saying we're just used to having Superman being an Icon, that's why it's already expected for him to have this qualities. Only a few writers(hell fewer even stories) gives him motivation/reason to have this kind of qualities. What's the reason for stopping him killing other people aside from the status quo? I think Alan Moore would be best suited to write him a proper origin story.

[goodm0urning]

He can't be the symbol if he doesn't want to meddle in Earth affairs. Hell He even sided with the Allies during WW2.... I know it's retconned, but with Final Crisis, I doubt it would still be.Yes, he meddles in Earthling affairs. I never said he didn't. What I was saying is that his major dilemma is that he doesn't want to push it too far. Carrying out capital punishment, dealing out executions, is most definitely too far. Have you ever read Must There Be A Superman? Red Son? DKR? Kingdom Come? All of these stories illustrate, in some way, Superman's never-ending struggle to find the balance point between helping humanity and lording over it.

And if I remember correctly, he never actually sided with the Allies during World War II, except for war-themed comic book covers. There was one story that was "WHAT IF Superman entered the war?" As in, it didn't really happen, but it showed what WOULD happen. The story, incidentally, was written before the U.S. got involved.

I'm just saying we're just used to having Superman being an Icon, that's why it's already expected for him to have this qualities. Only a few writers(hell fewer even stories) gives him motivation/reason to have this kind of qualities. What's the reason for stopping him killing other people aside from the status quo? I think Alan Moore would be best suited to write him a proper origin story.Know why he feels multifaceted when writers like Grant Morrison and Alan Moore write him? Because they're not adding anything to the character that wasn't already there in his most quintessential years. All that stuff is there, if you're willing to look for it, and they are. The vast majority of DC's writers for the last 20-some years have not had the confidence in the character to write him as he is. Instead of exploring the multiple facets that are already there, they merely attempt to tack new facets on--and the more they do that, the less he feels like the icon that everybody thinks of when they think of Superman.

You know how Grant Morrison prepared to do All Star Superman? He read all his Superman comic books and drew out the quintessential elements that make Superman who he is. For all the greatness of his writing, it is nothing new or revolutionary--he's just taking what made the character great in the first place and coming up with new stories to put him in. I suspect the process is much the same for Alan Moore, no stranger himself to LSD and Britishness.

[ATM SPIDERTAO]

it's nick fury!!! i'm calling it!

[Overworld]

You know, I think I'd actually like a Nick Fury Cap.

[kane_warhead]

Yes, he meddles in Earthling affairs. I never said he didn't. What I was saying is that his major dilemma is that he doesn't want to push it too far. Carrying out capital punishment, dealing out executions, is most definitely too far. Have you ever read Must There Be A Superman? Red Son? DKR? Kingdom Come? All of these stories illustrate, in some way, Superman's never-ending struggle to find the balance point between helping humanity and lording over it.

Or the mere fact nobody knows how to write him Period. Hell Alan Moore just toyed with an idea what if Superman was brought to the edge. It doesn't even involve him having his decision over humanity... he just cuts loose. The reason only a few writers can write a good superman story is because no one really knows what Superman's character really is. You don't really know how he thinks or feels. People still argue whether he is really a SUPER man or an alien in a human world.


And if I remember correctly, he never actually sided with the Allies during World War II, except for war-themed comic book covers. There was one story that was "WHAT IF Superman entered the war?" As in, it didn't really happen, but it showed what WOULD happen. The story, incidentally, was written before the U.S. got involved.

Know why he feels multifaceted when writers like Grant Morrison and Alan Moore write him? Because they're not adding anything to the character that wasn't already there in his most quintessential years. All that stuff is there, if you're willing to look for it, and they are. The vast majority of DC's writers for the last 20-some years have not had the confidence in the character to write him as he is. Instead of exploring the multiple facets that are already there, they merely attempt to tack new facets on--and the more they do that, the less he feels like the icon that everybody thinks of when they think of Superman.

You know how Grant Morrison prepared to do All Star Superman? He read all his Superman comic books and drew out the quintessential elements that make Superman who he is. For all the greatness of his writing, it is nothing new or revolutionary--he's just taking what made the character great in the first place and coming up with new stories to put him in. I suspect the process is much the same for Alan Moore, no stranger himself to LSD and Britishness.

I think Alan Moore was the first one to really make Superman more human than ever before. Read Supreme, Its what Superman is going to be if Alan Moore continued to write that shit.

Also he meddles in Human affairs. I really don't care how. You just can't say he doesn't interfere too deeply, when in fact he sometimes break some laws because of what he thinks is right. He's an alien for god's sake. Just because he's superman doesn't really mean he's always right.