The Superman Thread: PREACH IT, goody!

[Zephyranthes]

This is a thread so that goody can preach the truth of Superman for all unbelievers.

[goodm0urning]

If anybody has any questions, I will field them here.

A brief history:

Superman debuted in Action Comics #1, in June of 1938. You know the issue, because the cover tells a story in itself: some gangsters decided to fuck with Superman's shit, but he was like, "HELL NO" and he fucked up their car and threatened to stick the bumper up the driver's ass. Superman doesn't fuck around, especially when he has your car and a convenient rock to smash it on. You'd better have your insurance paid up, bitch.

Superman later learned to fly, and why the fuck not? Gangsters aren't even safe in airplanes anymore. Better hope there aren't any flying rocks for him to smash your plane on, or you're screwed.

Eventually, all the gangsters in Metropolis just gave up and called it a day, because really, you're a god damn retard if you're trying to make a living of petty crimes in Superman's favorite city in the world. However, there were no shortage of evil supervillains who came to town looking for a piece. Superman sent the bad guys packing, because by this point he was powerful enough to do anything. Brainiac? Nope. Lex Luthor? Pshaw. Even when depowered, Supes thoroughly owned the Great Bald One.

Then DC planned to write Superman out of existence and replace him with a newer, weaker Superman who probably liked margarine and scrambled porn. But fear not, because the real deal was given a grand send-off by Alan Moore, who writes like your mom fucks: it goes on forever and it is never anything less than excellent.

But that's not all for Superman. Eventually, he was brought back by Grant Morrison in All Star Superman, a series so excellent that presidents have perjured themselves and ex-football stars have murdered their uppity wives in order to obtain the latest issue. I would shiv your firstborn child in order to make #9 come out just a little bit sooner. The Big Guy is back, and any gangster smart enough to not want a bumper up his ass is running and hiding as we speak.

[RockBogart]

All Star Superman is too good. Frank writing in All Star Batman was ass in comparison and still hasn't gotten much better.

[goodm0urning]

All Star Superman is too good. Frank writing in All Star Batman was ass in comparison and still hasn't gotten much better.Frank's writing in All Star Batman is over the top, absurd, and hilarious--and I think that's exactly as he intended it. If I have one real gripe with the writing, it's that approximately 47 issues have gone by and only a few things have happened. As Zeph might say, it's a clear sign that the story is being tailored for the TRADE, BABY.

[RockBogart]

47? Dont you mean like 8?

[goodm0urning]

47? Dont you mean like 8?Whatever. Do I look like I'm good at math? The point is, for being this far into the series, you'd figure a little more would have happened by now.

[Pained Auron]

ASBAR is ALL SKILL BABY!!!!

[goodm0urning]

For those who like to keep abreast of all things Super, here is an excellent clip of Michael Rosenbaum, TV's Lex Luthor and the Flash, breakdancing in an interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPQjYATdAxI&mode=related&search=Mike%20michael%20rosenbaum%20singing%20lex% 20luthor

Now that is diabolical.

[maxx]

For those who like to keep abreast of all things Super, here is an excellent clip of Michael Rosenbaum, TV's Lex Luthor and the Flash, breakdancing in an interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPQjYATdAxI&mode=related&search=Mike%20michael%20rosenbaum%20singing%20lex% 20luthor

Now that is diabolical.

lol we all know lex had the rhythm and clark was a dunce with two left feet...didnt need video evidence to prove it.

[Zephyranthes]

Any of you all ever read Lex Luthor: Man of Steel? That's another one of the greatest Superman stories I've ever encountered.

[goodm0urning]

Any of you all ever read Lex Luthor: Man of Steel? That's another one of the greatest Superman stories I've ever encountered.It's a good book. For those of you who don't know, it's a Superman story told from Luthor's point of view: it shows Supes the way Luthor sees him, and makes an effort to understand Luthor's motivations and inner feelings. It's a three dimensional way of portraying a typically two dimensional villain.

And, going against the grain of comics stories in this day and age, Batman takes on Superman--and loses. A bit refreshing, since the novelty of the opposite scenario wore off long ago.

[matrix9280]

It's a good book. For those of you who don't know, it's a Superman story told from Luthor's point of view: it shows Supes the way Luthor sees him, and makes an effort to understand Luthor's motivations and inner feelings. It's a three dimensional way of portraying a typically two dimensional villain.

And, going against the grain of comics stories in this day and age, Batman takes on Superman--and loses. A bit refreshing, since the novelty of the opposite scenario wore off long ago.

:rofl:

[Akutabi Gamma]

Tho not a Superman fan, I picked up Superman vs. ALIENS just cuz of the Aliens/Xenomorphs. I loved how Supes got overpowered at times and shit, but right now I like it a lot....mainly cuz of the Xenomorphs.
Supergirl>Superman IMHO, no offense.
Still I'd read that Lex Luthor one just for literaty reasons

[P. Gorath]

superman vs terminator is....not good

[Sano]

All Star Batman and Robin is funny. Frank Miller is writing Batman like an 8 year old boy who hasn't aged mentally since the day his parents are murdered. Once someone explained that to me I felt I was in on the joke. It's like how his Wonder Woman in the book hates all men. Ideally she would, growing up around man haters. It's all about Miller's truer interpretations of how the characters would be like in real life. His Batman in this book may be stretching it a bit but oh well at least it's funny. "I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN!" See, eight year old with a potty mouth. :rofl: I still wish Robin did more in the book but it seems like he's about to.

All Star Superman is better though by leaps and bounds IMHO.

[DS]

All Star Superman is better though by leaps and bounds IMHO.

I see what you did there.

Anyway, All Star Supes is the best Superman book out there right now. Each issue just feels like a huge mega-event for some reason. The writing and pacing is so well-crafted that it makes you just want this book every month. Bizarro World was handled damn well. Grant Morrison can do anything thanks to drugs.

As for Batman, I don't even take the book seriously(the way most people should be reading it). It's just over-the-top and even Frank knows it's not that serious. It's good to know that it takes place in the DKR universe. I guess we'll finally see what lead up to those events in DKR.

[Are_you_okay?!]

I have a few questions about comics and arcs.

Has the All-Star Supes line been made in TPB's yet? And how many are there? I read the issues with Clark and Lex in prison and was hooked.

I've also wanted to get the King Superman arc, does that as well have a TPB?

How good was the Joker w.e arc where he steals Mxy's powers?

On a different note, I always liked how Supes was done in the Batman comics, Specifically the one's with Lee as artist. Man...what a badass Superman he can do.

>_> Is there a Bats thread? We need both members of the World's Finest represented lol.

[P. Gorath]

morrison says he gave millar the ending to red son, that it was the best superman idea he ever had

[Zephyranthes]

Has the All-Star Supes line been made in TPB's yet? And how many are there? I read the issues with Clark and Lex in prison and was hooked.

So far, there is a hardcover collecting #s 1-6. MSRP is $19.99. It's a very sexual comic book. I really hope an Absolute Edition gets made somewhere down the line.


I've also wanted to get the King Superman arc, does that as well have a TPB?

This, I do not recognize. The arc is called "King Superman"? Sorry, I don't know.



How good was the Joker w.e arc where he steals Mxy's powers?

Straight garbage. Not worth your money and probably not worth your time, unless you don't really care and just want to see what happens. There is an Emperor Joker TPB if you really insist, though.

All those stories from the days when they linked all four Superman titles and did crossovers... Really lousy work. There's not much sense of cohesion and the many different artists' styles getting slammed together in TPB form does not make a good read. The fact that different writers handled each chapter was a plain stupid idea. You could really tell that different people were writing it.



On a different note, I always liked how Supes was done in the Batman comics, Specifically the one's with Lee as artist. Man...what a badass Superman he can do.

Did you read Superman: For Tomorrow? That was a good story. I think Jim Lee kind of killed Azzarello's brooding tone, though, so the story wasn't as good as it should have been. There was a lot of dialogue and buildup in the drama there but you only want Jim Lee to draw chicks and action scenes.

Like, I recommend anyone who owns the For Tomorrow TPBs to go through them right now and count how many times Superman has his fists clenched. There are scenes when he's pouring out his heart to a priest in a cathedral, and Superman still has his fists clenched with his muscles just bulging. That's not good storytelling. Seriously, count all the clenched fists. Really inappropriate.


>_> Is there a Bats thread? We need both members of the World's Finest represented lol.

You have the power, baby. Start it up.

morrison says he gave millar the ending to red son, that it was the best superman idea he ever had

Red Son is another Superman story totally worth reading. Unless you're a Millar hater. Then you can go lick a goat's genitals.

[goodm0urning]

Red Son's good even if you could care less about Millar. Trust me, it's well worth reading.

[nameingway]

batman's hat makes red son worth reading.

[goodm0urning]

batman's hat makes red son worth reading.I swear I would wear it if it were sold in stores. I would wear it in 100+ degree heat in the summer.

[goodm0urning]

News on the next Superflick: Dougherty and Harris have left the project. Singer is currently accepting treatments from other Hollywood screenwriters, and he intends to make the next film in the series a direct sequel to Superman Returns.

With that one stipulation in mind, what are your ideas? What would you put in your dream Superman film? Let's brainstorm.

[Pained Auron]

three words "KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!"

oh batman > superman

[Zephyranthes]

My dream Superman movie would probably involve Batman beating the snot out of him with a couple of Kryptonite Hulk Hands, like in DKSA. But my dreams never come true. So hopefully we'll get Brainiac.

I never was too impressed with Superman's rogues gallery beyond Luthor and Brainiac (and Darkseid, thanks to the cartoon), so unless they create a new villain, I wouldn't mind Brainiac. But only if they got Corey Burton to do his voice again. It was Corey Burton, right? The dude who played Shockwave in Transformers?

Otherwise, Superman Returns Again: Kneel Before Zod sounds pretty enticing to me.

[goodm0urning]

Fun fact: Zod was one of the many villains mentioned when Singer and crew were bouncing ideas around for SR. They actually asked Jude Law if he'd be interested in playing the role, but when Law declined, the Zod idea fell out of interest.

Personally, I don't want to see Zod again. Unless it's Terence Stamp in that weird black jumpsuit, which is one of the greatest things in the history of cinema.

I'm not sure yet what my story would be, but I know for sure I'd grab stacks of Superman comics, pick out the ideas I really like, and try to find a common thread running through some of them that would translate well for the screen. Though a lot of fans would certainly disagree with me, I would prefer a film that teaches the audience something about Superman than another cookie-cutter villain beat 'em up movie.

If you were to twist my balls and make me pick out a villain now, I would say Brainiac or Darkseid. There are a lot of good Superman villains to pick from, but these two would be appropriately "big" for the screen, and would also lend themselves well to a fleshed-out, three dimensional story. They're not just the latest villains to roll into town and threaten Metropolis.

If it were Brainiac, I would introduce the Bottled City of Kandor. It's a little bit cheesy, but it's another twist of the knife for Superman. Part of his character is that he's cut off forever from his culture and his people, and Kandor represents a chance to rectify that. The conflict here, of course, is that it happens to be in the hands of a formidable and merciless opponent. And, of course, even if he wins, one of Superman's legendary unsolvable problems is the restoration of Kandor and its people to their natural size.

I think the key to a good Darkseid story is understanding that Superman is more than just a physically powerful dude. The greatest lesson he learns in his career as a superhero is that physical power alone cannot save the world. He can put out fires, but in order to win the hearts and minds of human beings, he must be a heroic icon and lead by example (sound familiar?). Darkseid represents a huge problem: even if Superman can beat him physically, he still hasn't won the war. The people of Apokolips know nothing but the rule of Darkseid, so they'll flock back to that iron-fisted rule if they're given the chance. Supes can stomp Darkseid's guts out, but that won't save the people that Darkseid has oppressed.

In other words... heavy stuff. That's the key. Give Superman a problem to chew on that's more than just a physical challenge. Don't be afraid to let him fail. People might not be able to relate to Superman when he's streaking through the sky and pounding villains into a pulp, but they can relate to him when his efforts aren't met with 100% success.

[goodm0urning]

Time for an SK-style countdown.

Eight days.

[goodm0urning]

Seven days.

[goodm0urning]

Six. Five, actually. Five.

[goodm0urning]

Four days.

[Zephyranthes]

Eighteen days, actually. It got pushed back again.

[Hellion]

Where do you think they'll take the next movie with Supes' kid and the loss of his crystals?

I mean it kinda sucks that he lost all that knowledge contained therein.

I liked "For Tomorrow," it was kinda cool how he tried to stop the fighting by taking away everyone's weapons, and they resort to stones.

[goodm0urning]

Eighteen days, actually. It got pushed back again.Fuck, dude, they might as well cancel it at this point. What, are they shooting for a bi-yearly book now?

Where do you think they'll take the next movie with Supes' kid and the loss of his crystals?

I mean it kinda sucks that he lost all that knowledge contained therein.I'm not sure. The crystals aren't necessarily lost. They're on the island, which is currently space born. It's a problem for Supes, since the thing is laced with green K and he can't exactly just land on it and go looking for the crystals, but they're hardly gone for good.

As for the kid, I wouldn't mind this being the beginning of a Super-dynasty, in which the kid isn't necessarily a part of the action but might help people covertly and receive training in his abilities for the future, but I don't know if they'd do that. Hopefully they don't just turn the boy into Super-hostage.

[Zephyranthes]

Actually, I was just kidding about the new delay. I was just wondering what your reaction would be.

[goodm0urning]

Actually, I was just kidding about the new delay. I was just wondering what your reaction would be.You son of a bitch. I love you.

[goodm0urning]

Three.

[Pained Auron]

nope. still four for me

[goodm0urning]

nope. still four for meGood thing Lex Luthor hasn't blown off a chunk of your state, otherwise Superman would have to reverse time and then it would still be four days for me too.

In other news, I probably need to get more sleep.

[Zephyranthes]

If you see this message before you go to sleep, I would like to know what your all-time favorite Superman issues and/or stories are. Other than All-Star and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, I mean. I already know you hate those comics with all your heart because they don't match up to the Death of Superman (aka, Greatest Comics Saga of the '90s and, thus, of ALL-TIME).

Otherwise, answer me when you wake up.

[goodm0urning]

If you see this message before you go to sleep, I would like to know what your all-time favorite Superman issues and/or stories are. Other than All-Star and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, I mean. I already know you hate those comics with all your heart because they don't match up to the Death of Superman (aka, Greatest Comics Saga of the '90s and, thus, of ALL-TIME).Man, you are just full of lulz tonight.

If I had to pare things down to just a handful of favorites, I'd pick:

For The Man Who Has Everything (Supes Annual 11)

Since you're not letting me pick the obvious Alan Moore Superman story, I'll pick this one. Not only is it written by Alan Moore, but it's drawn by Dave Gibbons, so you know it's going to rule. The JLU television adaptation of this story is pretty good, but it sorely lacks the spot-on recreation of the Mort Weisinger Krypton featured in Moore's version. A lot of writers try to get Supes angry, but Moore does it here in a way that feels natural and in-character.


Exile At The Edge Of Eternity (Superman 400)

I'm not overly familiar with Steranko's stuff, but I've checked out a few of his more "out there" pieces, and this is one of my favorites. The experimental format is cool as hell, telling the story in a unique way without becoming distracting, and the artwork is suitably epic. 2001: A Space Odyssey is my favorite movie, and this story sort of reminds me of that, in the way that it follows the evolution of super-humanity through various stages. And like Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow, this is one of the last great stories before the reboot.


The Showdown Between Luthor And Superman (?)

This story is great. Supes and Luthor maroon themselves on a wilderness planet that orbits a red sun, so they have to match wits and survive the harsh environment in order to finally settle their score. The twist end shows that there is more to Luthor than just two-dimensional mad scientist megalomania (in an era when writers typically didn't do this), and it is a little satisfying to see Superman get scuffed up a bit. I don't remember off the top of my head which issue number or which book it is, but I'm pretty sure it was published in 1960 or something like that. I think you can get it in a trade collection. I know you can get the first two in trades.


(I don't remember what this story was called, but I found it deeply touching. Kindly try not to laugh at me.)

Since you're making me feel obligated to pick at least one token Death Of Superman-era story, I will. I don't remember the title or the issue number, but there was one story in which the Justice League visits the Metropolis post office, shortly after Superman's "death." They learn that Supes had a tradition of going there every year on Christmas Eve, when he would read all the letters sent to him and try to help out the people who asked for it. Since Supes is obviously not around, the JL members take it upon themselves to act in his stead. I actually got a little choked up when (I think) Flash and Green Lantern built a new house for the woman whose home was destroyed in the Doomsday rampage. Again, stop laughing at me.


Peace On Earth

I haven't exactly made my opinion of Alex Ross a secret, but this is one instance in which I think he did alright by Superman. Here, he teams up with Paul Dini (who helped everyone remember the true nature of Batman and Superman during the dark age of the 90s), and tells a simple story that explores themes that are classic Superman.


Must There Be A Superman? (Superman 247, or the 1970s trade collection)

People usually see Superman's sense of virtue and ethics to be unshakable. This story is cool because it challenges that idea. The Guardians of the Universe implant the notion in Superman's head that his activities hinder the natural growth of humanity, which forces him to reappraise which situations he should or shouldn't help in. There's one memorable moment in which Supes has a confrontation with a group of farmhands, who seek his help with a problem they could solve for themselves. Supes refuses and tries to explain why, but his lesson is lost on them when an earthquake forces him to help them anyway.

[Sano]

Yeah All-Star Superman will not ship this week. At the very least, it is not on Midtown Comics' list of books coming out this Wednesday.

[goodm0urning]

Yeah All-Star Superman will not ship this week. At the very least, it is not on Midtown Comics' list of books coming out this Wednesday.We will see about that.

EDIT:

Son of a bitch. It has been delayed another week.



Ten days.

[Biolink]

Don't know alot about Supes,but is he the strongest ever from his planet or is there evidence of others from his planet being even stronger?

[Are_you_okay?!]

Just read Emperor Joker, other than the confusing opening I liked it. Ignition, Bizarro and Superman were most interesting, and Joker played his part well lol.

Batman got messed up big time, honestly I think it's one of the most brutal things I've seen in comics. (In a psychological way).

[RoninChaos]

If they were to do another superman movie, I'd like to see Darkseid. Have supes' ship pass Apokolips on his way to Krypton, insert shit about finding earth, show up to earth and try to take the mother fucker over.

Of course, that's what the fanboy in me wants to see. Hell, I'd be happy with a movie version of the superman animated show where Darkseid shows up and merc's turpin. lol

[maxx]

If they were to do another superman movie, I'd like to see Darkseid. Have supes' ship pass Apokolips on his way to Krypton, insert shit about finding earth, show up to earth and try to take the mother fucker over.

Of course, that's what the fanboy in me wants to see. Hell, I'd be happy with a movie version of the superman animated show where Darkseid shows up and merc's turpin. lol

lol turpins death is one of the only animated deaths...permenant ones in kid cartoon history.

superman:tas was the truth

[Zephyranthes]

For The Man Who Has Everything (Supes Annual 11)

By mandate of the SRK Comic Book Forum Illuminati, Superman Annual #11 is a required favorite Superman story. It's not enough to just read it or watch the JLU adaptation. You must also love it long and hard.



Exile At The Edge Of Eternity (Superman 400)

Must There Be A Superman? (Superman 247, or the 1970s trade collection)

The Showdown Between Luthor And Superman (?)

I will try to track those down somehow and get back to you. Then I, too, shall be able to look down from the mountaintop of Superman Readers and laugh at the masses who have not been able to experience the classics, and thus, who completely misunderstand the purpose of Superman's existence.



(I don't remember what this story was called, but I found it deeply touching. Kindly try not to laugh at me.)

Ha.



Peace On Earth

I think Superman is maybe the one superhero who looks okay as one of Alex Ross' fat friends dressed up in a Halloween costume.


-----

Yeah All-Star Superman will not ship this week. At the very least, it is not on Midtown Comics' list of books coming out this Wednesday.

That sucks, dude, that we won't be getting any ASS this week. On the other hand, at least goody can bump up his post count by restarting the countdown. Guess there's a bright side to every sad situation.

-----

Don't know alot about Supes,but is he the strongest ever from his planet or is there evidence of others from his planet being even stronger?

I think that he is the strongest because he's the only survivor of his planet. Unless Supergirl counts as a fellow survivor. Even so, Superman is still stronger than Supergirl because he is a man and she is a girl.

I am not too sure about the Kryptonians who survived by being trapped in the Phantom Zone. I presume they are about as strong as Superman (assuming they can gain power from our galaxy's yellow sun). If they worked out in the Phantom Zone, maybe they could be stronger than Superman, but he was a farmer, so he probably has pretty good fitness even without his powers.

-----

I think my two of my favorite Superman stories (other than Alan Moore's and ASS) are still It's A Bird... and Secret Identity.

Action Comics #775 is another one of the best. That was the one where Superman fought the Elite, who were basically an analogue for The Authority. Joe Kelly wrote some goodass shit about why Superman is still relevant in a postmodern world. The comic just works because it has a great plot that's also a great metaphor. It's Superman vs. The Authority!

Action Comics #800 was memorable, too. Maybe because I only read it like a few months ago, but it's another Joe Kelly story about why Superman is such an icon. There's a series of connected vignettes illustrated by various artists but it's only at the end when you really see where Kelly's going with his story. Pretty skillful writing. There's a lot of cool imagery in the comic, like this one scene Lee Bermejo drew of a firefighter wearing a t-shirt with the S-shield.

Speaking of Bermejo, Lex Luthor: Man of Steel is another one of my favorites.

I just got Joe Casey's entire run on Adventures of Superman from eBay and read it all. Casey's one of my all-time favorite writers but I have to admit that his Adventures of Superman run is uneven due to the terrible editorial situation (early 2000s). A lot of his issues were forced crossovers with the other three monthly Superman comics at the time, so that sucked. (I think that's why Superman comics generally sucked through the entire '90s.)

But the issues when you could tell he was allowed to do his own thing really shined because Casey had generally had Superman use his mind to defeat his foes, and Superman mostly used his powers to help people. There was a good mix of Silver Age-style adventuring and British Invasion-style meditative storytelling. He had some great artists working with him, too, like Wieringo and Pete Woods. Some dude I ain't ever heard of, Derec Aucoin, did a bunch of Casey's issues, too, and they were pretty outstanding. What happened to Aucoin?

Other than that, I don't really know what else are my favorites. I like Superman For All Seasons and Birthright, but I don't know if I would proclaim them from the mountain and laugh down at the people who haven't read them. Maybe it's because lots of people already did read them and I wouldn't be able to feel as unique, pretentious, and elitist by claiming them as my favorites.

Oh, I guess Alan Moore's complete run on Rob Liefeld's Supreme ranks pretty highly. We all know Alan Moore's Supreme is basically all the Superman stories he ever wanted to tell. That's the best stuff, probably.

And Casey's run on Mr. Majestic is basically a pre-Crisis Superman thing. Ed McGuinness drew awesome stuff for those, back before he got stuck drawing things written by hacks like Jeph Loeb and... uh, Jeph Loeb.

[Taichi]

Just bought the Death of Superman TPB.

the best part about that story is STILL when Doomsday steamrolls the Justice League.

because they fucking sucked back then (and that's saying something, considering I'm a HUGE fan of Guy, Ted, and Booster).

[goodm0urning]

By mandate of the SRK Comic Book Forum Illuminati, Superman Annual #11 is a required favorite Superman story. It's not enough to just read it or watch the JLU adaptation. You must also love it long and hard.My love is always long and hard.

I will try to track those down somehow and get back to you. Then I, too, shall be able to look down from the mountaintop of Superman Readers and laugh at the masses who have not been able to experience the classics, and thus, who completely misunderstand the purpose of Superman's existence.Upon checking into it, I'm pretty sure all three of these stories are in the Greatest Superman Stories volumes. I feel like a poseur now.

I think my two of my favorite Superman stories (other than Alan Moore's and ASS) are still It's A Bird... and Secret Identity.These are both very good, though I'm hesitant to call them Superman stories. They're tangentially related to Superman, but I tend to think of them as independent of the mythology.

Other than that, I don't really know what else are my favorites. I like Superman For All Seasons and Birthright, but I don't know if I would proclaim them from the mountain and laugh down at the people who haven't read them. Maybe it's because lots of people already did read them and I wouldn't be able to feel as unique, pretentious, and elitist by claiming them as my favorites.Lulz. They're really not bad at all. They just don't have that light-shining-down-from-the-heavens-to-favor-us-mere-mortals quality that you get with something like ASS (for instance). And for Waid and Loeb, the storytelling and characterization are at least decent.

Oh, I guess Alan Moore's complete run on Rob Liefeld's Supreme ranks pretty highly. We all know Alan Moore's Supreme is basically all the Superman stories he ever wanted to tell. That's the best stuff, probably.I haven't read The Return, but I've read Story Of The Year. It's superb. I bet Alan Moore is the kind of guy who looks in the mirror every morning and says, "Who's a clever bastard? That's right: Alan Moore is a clever bastard." Great gimmickry in addition to the old-school storytelling.

And Casey's run on Mr. Majestic is basically a pre-Crisis Superman thing. Ed McGuinness drew awesome stuff for those, back before he got stuck drawing things written by hacks like Jeph Loeb and... uh, Jeph Loeb.Lulz x2.

Just bought the Death of Superman TPB.

the best part about that story is STILL when Doomsday steamrolls the Justice League.

because they fucking sucked back then (and that's saying something, considering I'm a HUGE fan of Guy, Ted, and Booster).Yeah, that was one of the especially irksome details of that arc. Maxima? Ice? Come on. You'd figure if someone as important as Superman is about to get snuffed, the least they could do is throw in a few A-list League members for the occasion.

[Carpet Lint]

I still don't understand why Guy couldn't have just chucked Doomsday into space with like a giant yellow spring or something.

Superman Annual #11 and Action Comics #775 rank in my top 10 favourite single issues of all time. I would never have suspected one of my top ten issues would be by Joe Kelly and Doug Mahnke. I like both of them (Deadpool and JLA)...but what are the chances, you know?

But that comic was like Superman, Truth, and Justice punching Mark Millar and his ultra extreme team of assholes (regardless if it was The Authority or The Ultimates) right in the face. Feels so good every time I re-read it.

[Zephyranthes]

I still don't understand why Guy couldn't have just chucked Doomsday into space with like a giant yellow spring or something.

I don't understand why Superman didn't just float in orbit and just shoot fire from his eyes down at Doomsday while Batman thought up a plan to destroy that Hulk-ripoff motherfucker.

I think it was stories like Death of Superman that turned me off to Superman for so many years. They made me think that Superman was a dumbass because these writers would only show Superman solving problems by punching them out. Superman has more power than a million exploding suns and he is the original golden guardian of good, right? So how come when the going got tough he never used his powers and only tried to punch his foes. I never got that.



But that comic was like Superman, Truth, and Justice . . .

I do believe you mean to say "Superman, Truth, Justice, and the American Way." Stupid Canucklehead. Get it right, bub. Go play some damn baseball and eat some apple pie.

Action #775 is one of my favorite single issues, too. I still reread it a couple of times a year. But I think Superman was punching Warren Ellis, not Millar. Doesn't Action #775 predate Millar's runs on The Authority and The Ultimates? I'm too lazy to check, so I will just confidently say that I am correct.

[Taichi]

Zeph: The reason Supes didn't use his powers?

had nothing to do with Superman, had everything to do with his shitty writers. "Superman isn't relevant, anymore. Let's kill him!"

"Brilliant!"

no, not brilliant. Superman wouldn't BE Irrelevant if you were a competent writer, asshole.

[goodm0urning]

Zeph: The reason Supes didn't use his powers?

had nothing to do with Superman, had everything to do with his shitty writers. "Superman isn't relevant, anymore. Let's kill him!"

"Brilliant!"

no, not brilliant. Superman wouldn't BE Irrelevant if you were a competent writer, asshole.Truer words were never spoken. And Supes isn't the only classic hero who's gotten this kind of treatment in the modern age.

[goodm0urning]

Eight days. I have a five dollar bill on my wall. I put a push-pin through the Great Emancipator's forehead. That money is just waiting to go to the comic book store so I can pull some ASS.

[nameingway]

action comics #775 was fucking great. if anyone hasn't read it, move it up on your list of things to do. superman, serious business.

[goodm0urning]

action comics #775 was fucking great. if anyone hasn't read it, move it up on your list of things to do. superman, serious business.It's decent. I'll always remember it as the comic in which Superman proved conclusively that psychic mutants don't have shit on him.

[Hellion]

I am a Superman newb you all will be laughing at from the top of that mountain.
Just a few questions
Isn't he supposed to be just as intelligent as Batman?

Isn't the only reason Batman "gets away" with "beating Supes" the fact that Superman would try his best not to kill him?

If Superman wanted to he could just obliterate the entire city block Batman was hiding in right?

[goodm0urning]

I am a Superman newb you all will be laughing at from the top of that mountain.
Just a few questions
Isn't he supposed to be just as intelligent as Batman?It depends on who's writing him and what time period you're looking at. Classic Superman, among his many other super-abilities, was super-intelligent. He had a perfect memory, was an extraordinary lateral thinker, and had a knack for learning new things quickly. The modern Superman is much more average in this regard.

Isn't the only reason Batman "gets away" with "beating Supes" the fact that Superman would try his best not to kill him?While Superman's hesitance towards harming his friends is a factor, Batman is also the most absurdly broken character in all of comics. Really, if it is even thinkable for a human being to be able to do anything, Batman has already mastered it. He is an expert in anything and everything remotely relating to crime fighting, he is a brilliant tactician, and he is always prepared.

If Superman wanted to he could just obliterate the entire city block Batman was hiding in right?Sort of. It isn't just an issue of whether Superman wants to do it or not. His sense of psychological restraint is so powerful that it prevents him from exercising his powers in lethal ways, even if he might want to.

That said, a guy with all of Superman's physical power and none of his deeply-ingrained compassion could turn Batman into a cinder from miles away if he wanted to.

[Taichi]

The reason Batman continually beats Superman has nothing to do with 'in story' ideas.

it's simple: Frank Miller did it in DKR, and it was awesome, so awesome that anybody who came after had to try the same thing.

so awesome that it became cliche.

Superman would destroy Batman in a one-on-one fight, even if Batman WERE fighting dirty.

[Hellion]

Sorry I don't mean for this to degenerate into a vs thread, it's a given that Supes would own Bats if things took a turn for the worst. Thing is what defintes "the worst?"
What would it take for Supes to pull the stops on his psyche and destroy his opponents?
What about how he was depicted against "Aliens?"

[Taichi]

yeah, I'm not in the mood for a versus thread either.

I can't think of very many epic Superman arcs. After you've read "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?", "Superman for All Seasons", and "For the Man who has Everything"....What else is there?

All Star Superman is a given, but I've read all of that too.

[goodm0urning]

Exile At The Edge Of Eternity is pretty epic. It's short, but it's epic in scope. Check it out. It's written and drawn by everybody's favorite former escape artists-turned-awesome comic book guy.

Also, six days. Hopefully.

[kane_warhead]

The reason Batman continually beats Superman has nothing to do with 'in story' ideas.

it's simple: Frank Miller did it in DKR, and it was awesome, so awesome that anybody who came after had to try the same thing.

so awesome that it became cliche.

Superman would destroy Batman in a one-on-one fight, even if Batman WERE fighting dirty.

I don't believe that.

This is Batman, we're talking about. I'm not being a fanboy, but we all know that Superman at it's best would always go to brute force. Batman always has a contingency plan. And even if we go that Superman could just kill Batman at Superspeed with SUper strength or whatever... Batman always has some ace in his sleeve. In continuity, Batman can already sneak up on Superman(I'm talking about the first arc in JLA grant morrison run).

Batman always prepares for everything... And Batman always fights dirty. There are no rules regarding a dirty fight.

[maxx]

is superman birthright canon?

cause if it is...superman got some broken ass powers in it. lol. soul seeing.

[kane_warhead]

is superman birthright canon?

cause if it is...superman got some broken ass powers in it. lol. soul seeing.

Before the infinite crisis it is. It retcons Man of Steel.

But after the incoming crisis we'll get a new history.

[maxx]

Before the infinite crisis it is. It retcons Man of Steel.

But after the incoming crisis we'll get a new history.

oh fucking hell....just..just when i thought supes might be kinda cool. fuck.

[Taichi]

Yeah, in the intermediate between "Infinite" and "Final" Crisis, I wouldn't get too hung up on what is and isn't canon, because it could all easily change next summer.

[goodm0urning]

Yeah, in the intermediate between "Infinite" and "Final" Crisis, I wouldn't get too hung up on what is and isn't canon, because it could all easily change next summer.I think the official word right now is that Supes currently has no origin. Except, of course, the basic shit that stays consistent among the different versions.

If they have any sense at all, they'll pull their heads out of their asses and just hire Grant Morrison to expand the first four panels of ASS #1 into the new origin story.

[Zephyranthes]

Exile At The Edge Of Eternity is pretty epic. It's short, but it's epic in scope. Check it out. It's written and drawn by everybody's favorite former escape artists-turned-awesome comic book guy.


What issue number is this Steranko story and where can I find it?

-----

Also, Superman vs. Aliens is plain whack garbage.

[goodm0urning]

What issue number is this Steranko story and where can I find it?Superman #400, a whole page back in this thread.

It's in one of the "Greatest Stories Ever Told" collections. Probably the first one.

[ReggieHadoken]

I :lovin: this thread.

I'm gonna get it outta the way right now. I was not impressed with Superman For All Seasons. Yes, I said it. The book didn't do a thing for me and I'm a huge fan of Loeb/Sale collaberations. OK, I admit that I liked how the story was more about Clark than his blue & red alter ego, and I don't mind a slow paced style story but for some reason, I just didn't really take to this book at all.

Are the current regulae Superman titles, Action Comics and Superman worth reading? Sounds like everyone is just sticking to All-Star Superman.

Superman: Birthright was an awesome story, I thought. A fantastic retelling of Supes origin. No big deal if it isn't cannon anymore.

Speak of Supes origin, why oh why, must DC constantly eff with it every few years? The origin Segiel & Shuster came up with was just fine. There's a reason Spider-Man's story hasn't been screwed with. The reason? Lee & Ditko explained all we needed to Spidey's origin was explained perfectly in just 11 pages. Heck, Morrison sumped up Supes origin perfectly in All-Star Superman #1 in just 8 words and 4 pannels. Guess that isn't good enough for DC. I think they get off screwing with Supe's origin and doing multi-world stories.

Oh and if you're any kind of Superman fan, yiou WILL own all 3 vols. of Superman: TAS. This isn't even something that's up for debate. I mean, if you don't own them, you're an awful human being that no one will ever love. No, scratch that, you aren't even a memeber of the human race. It was thanks to this series that I saw some of the best Superman in animation ever. Dan Turpin get killed by Darkseid's Omega Beams, Superman flying into rage, brilliant, amazingly beautiful stuff. Thanks to STAS, Darkseid became one of my fav Superman villains.

[goodm0urning]

Yeah, The Animated Series is definitely rock solid. Season three was especially great. Too bad it came to an end... of course, they turned around and did Justice League after that.

DC keeps fucking with Superman's continuity because they have this intense neurosis about whether or not Superman is still relevant. If they'd concentrate less on keeping him relevant and more on just writing some fucking decent stories, like Grant Morrison is, there wouldn't be a problem. Supes is a classic. He'll be relevant if you just stick to what makes him great.

[goodm0urning]

Four days.

[goodm0urning]

Three days. Every time I count off another day, I feel like I'm tempting the fates to delay this fucking book again, but according to the DC official site the book is still on schedule for the 14th.

[Zephyranthes]

Monday's a holiday, correct? So is the post office shipping one day later than usual?

[goodm0urning]

Monday's a holiday, correct? So is the post office shipping one day later than usual?You're right. Veterans Day. Which should be Sunday, but more state workers will get the day off if they move it to a Monday. Shit.

Be that as it may, the 14th is still the marked release date, so it retains its symbolic power. And what is Superman about, if not symbolic power?


Two days... sort of. Fuck you guys; give us the god damn book already...

[Sano]

Yeah it comes out this Wednesday, no delay. The only veterans comic books care about are Sgt. Rock and Captain America. :rofl:

[goodm0urning]

Yeah it comes out this Wednesday, no delay. The only veterans comic books care about are Sgt. Rock and Captain America.I see a "Definitive Comic Book Characters Who Are/Were Soldiers" thread on the horizon.

Anyway, good news for ASS lovers everywhere.

[Sano]

I see a "Definitive Comic Book Characters Who Are/Were Soldiers" thread on the horizon.



Yeah Flash Thompson served in Viet Nam but it's never mentioned again due to it being something that would make him ancient, so now he just served overseas somewhere. That's a crash course in comic book characters who were soldiers right there... :rofl:

Well big up to all the veterans in real life anyway. It's pretty neat when you read comics that date back to the 60s that if you read the letters page you'll see lots of them were written by people in the armed forces. :tup:

[goodm0urning]

Yeah Flash Thompson served in Viet Nam but it's never mentioned again due to it being something that would make him ancient, so now he just served overseas somewhere. That's a crash course in comic book characters who were soldiers right there... :rofl:Didn't Ben and Reed actually serve together in WWII?

[Zephyranthes]

Not only that, but Wolverine teamed up with Richard and Mary Parker back in either WWII or sometime during the early Cold War, back when Spider-Man's parents were hardcore agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[Sano]

So Superman has participated in wars too before right? Did he get in on the punching Hitler in the face action that was going on back then?

[goodm0urning]

So Superman has participated in wars too before right? Did he get in on the punching Hitler in the face action that was going on back then?Supes didn't really touch the war. There was a lot of WWII themed cover art, but as for the stories themselves, there was one that ran in Look Magazine that featured Superman singlehandedly apprehending Hitler and Stalin. This, of course, was before the United States actually entered the war, so showing Supes roughing up Stalin wasn't politically incorrect yet. Anyway, that's the only actual Superman war story that I can think of, and it wasn't even in Action Comics or Superman.

What's more remarkable is seeing 30 year old Supes taking care of the problems of the Great Depression. Now, almost 70 years on, he's still in his 30s and he's... well, he isn't really handling the problems of today, unless you count ludicrous continuity shifts to be a modern day problem. Which I do.

[Sano]

Wow great answer and more than I was expecting, thanks! :clap:

[goodm0urning]

One day. The five dollar bill I have pinned to the wall* will come down, it will be transported to the comic book store, and it will be exchanged for ASS #9--with enough change left for a soda, or some gum or something.













(*I'm not the first person to put a hole in Abraham Lincoln's head. Hiyo!)

[goodm0urning]

The big day is finally upon us. Let's hope they aren't fucking with us and today is actually the day.

[Carpet Lint]

I'm going to race you to the comic store tomorrow, m0urny.

[Zephyranthes]

So he's m0urny now? Did he graduate from being goody?

[goodm0urning]

Who gives a fuck? It's not like it's my real name.

Or is it? *Dr. Evil music*

[goodm0urning]

The room is dark and damp, an unfinished basement lit solely by a bare light bulb overhead. In the circle of dim, yellow light, three figures sit around a card table in folding chairs.

goodm0urning looks sternly across the table at the other two, and holds up a polymer bag containing All Star Superman #9.

"Okay," he says, "you two took four months to produce this single issue. That is one entire third of a year. Over schedule by a factor of two." He removes the comic from the bag, places it on the table in front of him, and folds his hands on top of it. He leans in and inquires, "What do you have to say for yourselves?"

The first figure across the table, Grant Morrison, says nothing. His pupils are dilated to twice their normal diameter and he is examining his fingernails with apparent intense interest. The second figure, Frank Quitely, also says nothing, but nervously scratches the back of his neck while staring at his shoes.

goodm0urning continues. "I am going to read this now. You two are in big trouble if this doesn't end up being one of the greatest damn comics ever made."

goodm0urning picks up the comic, leans back in his chair, props his feet up on the table, and begins to read. Frank Quitely is twiddling his thumbs and pretending to nonchalantly look about the room as he fidgets nervously. Grant Morrison seems to be attempting to pick up a small object off the floor that nobody can see but him. Despite his efforts, he makes no progress.

After a while, goodm0urning says, "I will be back. I'm taking this with me. Don't go anywhere." He heads to the bathroom, comic in hand, and closes the door. Nothing happens for a while. Before long, Frank Quitely has squirmed his way to the edge of his seat, as if preparing for a quick escape. Grant Morrison is sitting partway under the table, stroking his own arm as if it were a kitten. He is humming what sounds like a vacillation between "God Save The Queen" and "The Greatest American Hero."

A toilet flush is heard. Moments later, the door opens and goodm0urning returns to the table. He tosses the comic to the center of the table with a dull plop, places both hands on the tabletop, and leans forward into the circle of light. From the placement of the receipt between the pages, it is apparent that he has read all the way through the comic. His eyes, darkened by the diffuse shadows thrown by the light bulb overhead, glare down at Quitely and Morrison as he mutters:

"You got lucky."

[Hellion]

Frank Quitely

Winner!

Is it worth the buy?
edit-not familiar with the All Stars but hey Supes is cool and I'd pitch money to start with but a word.

[goodm0urning]

Is it worth the buy?I'll put it this way: if every Superman comic in the world were about to go up in flames and only one series could be saved, All Star Superman would be an excellent candidate for preservation.

In other words, yes. It is well worth buying. Superman hasn't been this good in decades.

[Hellion]

9 issues out already.
Estimated total cost about $150-200 I suppose, depending on demand.
Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year.

[goodm0urning]

9 issues out already.
Estimated total cost about $150-200 I suppose, depending on demand.
Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year.The first six have been collected into a hardcover volume.

[Sano]

Last issue was AWESOME!

A big LOL to the Moon being broken and stappled together with bridges dang Morrison is crazy. :rofl:

[goodm0urning]

Last issue was AWESOME!

A big LOL to the Moon being broken and stappled together with bridges dang Morrison is crazy. :rofl:Yeah, that was cool. There's also a funny bit that took me a second to notice, when the guy hands the key to the Fortress to one of the Superman Robots, and the robot's arm breaks off.

I liked it when Superman likened his reasons for not taking over the world to being a scientist like his father: he's there to observe and interact, not interfere. And the ending, when he wins over the two villains with his compassion and helps them out, was a nice twist for this kind of story.

[ReggieHadoken]

Hold up! All-Star Superman #9 actually came out? And we're not all dead? The did it! They put the issues out! The comic system works!!!!!11

[goodm0urning]

Hold up! All-Star Superman #9 actually came out? And we're not all dead? The did it! They put the issues out! The comic system works!!!!!11That's right. I look forward to issue 10, which should come out in March or so.

[The Damned]

Not to take away from the discussion of the above series, even though I normally do (and still do) hate Superman, but I've a question to ask.

Being spurred by this thread, I bought Lex Luthor: Man of Steel on Tuesday or Wednesday--I forgive since I've been relatively sick and working so damned much this week--and I just finished reading today. I did find Luthor's reasoning to be quite interesting, though I woudl have liked his more generic views on other superheroes as well.

Anyway, there was on part that I don't understand.

Why were Superman and Batman fighting in the first place? Because Luthor gave Wayne/Batman the Kryptonite? It seemed like a skipped a page or something, especially since it was skipping back and forth to the dinner meeting between the two of them and the "fight".

Speaking of the former, what exactly did Bruce give Luthor? I don't remember it being mentioned again.

[goodm0urning]

Why were Superman and Batman fighting in the first place? Because Luthor gave Wayne/Batman the Kryptonite? It seemed like a skipped a page or something, especially since it was skipping back and forth to the dinner meeting between the two of them and the "fight".Modern continuity. Superman and Batman have not gotten along famously a number of times. I believe we are led to assume this is one of those times. The details aren't important; it's one of those archetypal things.

Speaking of the former, what exactly did Bruce give Luthor? I don't remember it being mentioned again.Same as above: though Bruce Wayne is loathe to do so, he has to maintain appearances, so he has done business with Luthor a few times to keep up his image as a wealthy industrialist.

When you're given sequences that offer sparse information, just fill in the blanks yourself. It's not too hard when you have nearly 70 years of history to inform your imagination.

[m121akuma]

Goody, you go to MSU right? You shop at 21st Century? I know it's off topic, I'm just curious

[goodm0urning]

Goody, you go to MSU right? You shop at 21st Century? I know it's off topic, I'm just curiousYeah, I go to 21st Century for the most part. I also occasionally pop into Just For Fun, over in Frandor, and I've been into the Fortress, which is about a block from 21st Century.

[m121akuma]

Yeah, I go to 21st Century for the most part. I also occasionally pop into Just For Fun, over in Frandor, and I've been into the Fortress, which is about a block from 21st Century.

Never been to Just for Fun, since I don't have a car. I don't like the atmosphere of the Fortress for the most part.

[Zephyranthes]

Why were Superman and Batman fighting in the first place? Because Luthor gave Wayne/Batman the Kryptonite? It seemed like a skipped a page or something, especially since it was skipping back and forth to the dinner meeting between the two of them and the "fight".

Speaking of the former, what exactly did Bruce give Luthor? I don't remember it being mentioned again.


If you reread the dialogue between Bruce and Lex when they start eating, Luthor mentions something about how Thomas Labs has made "a breakthrough" with Alzheimer's. I think we can infer that Luthor wanted to use Thomas Labs' research to help with his Hope project.

A big part of their conversation centers on Superman, and how Luthor doesn't want Superman to represent the future.

So, to me, the reason why Batman and Superman fight is symbolic of Luthor's distrust of Superman. I mean, if we got Batman and Superman, aka THE WORLD'S FINEST TEAM, fighting with each other, then nothing is sacred. I think part of the reason Azz wrote that scene in there is to show why Batman might think Luthor has a small point. (Oh, and it's also a reason to have Bermejo draw some kickass action.)

There's this panel during the fight, when Superman is floating over Batman, who is clearly at the disadvantage after falling into a dumpster. Luthor's narration says "When faced with a myth? We can't win." So that's sort of showing that Luthor has a point there, and to remind us that Superman can't really be stopped if he doesn't want to be stopped. (See how easily he dispatched of the Kryptonite Batman was holding right before they "fight?")

As to why Superman and Batman begin fighting in the first place: (other than the symbolic, pretentious English major asshole analysis reason) I think it's because Superman's not an idiot and keeps tabs on his enemy, and probably doesn't like it when his enemy tries to make an alliance with Superman's friend.

Either that, or Luthor's right, and Superman is an asshole who must be crushed.

[goodm0urning]

Never been to Just for Fun, since I don't have a car. I don't like the atmosphere of the Fortress for the most part.Yeah, I wasn't a fan. Too nerdy, even for me. They do have original single issues of DKR though.

[goodm0urning]

I checked out Superman: Doomsday from the video store today. My reaction is, it's pretty "meh." It pares down a lot of the crap from the comics, but there still isn't much of a story there. Aside from Luthor, who gets a little bit of attention, there isn't a lot of good characterization. The Doomsday fight is even directed without the typical flair you see from Bruce Timm and his guys.

It's not a total dud. I have to give them credit towards improving on one of the most abysmal storylines ever. It's just not... super. I'm glad I rented first.

Here's hoping that New Frontier delivers on the promising aspects of this film.

[Hellion]

Dammit, I was hoping that would've been a good buy.
...
I spend hours arguing with my brother over which was better, Superman Returns or Spiderman 3.

My angle: I hated how Spidermans plot was mixed and mashed with 4 different twists-Harry, Sandman, Suit, Brock.

I hated how my brother said the story had a strong moral message:
"Fight the Demons within," or some such nonsense.

I hate how I had to watch that garbage for nearly 3 hours.

I had how Parker with the suit on in badguy mode acted like an emo punk instead of a badass.

I hate how he had to take the suit off then put it back on--why the fuck couldn't the leave it as is from the comics?

The final battle sucked the big one.

--
For Superman
I am not sure I like who they cast as Lois, but aside from that yeah I think the character matched everything about her we all love--arrogant, witty, smart, yet can't tell that Kent's Superman.

I like how Luthor treked to the Fortress at the beginning while he believed Supes was away to steal the goodies, and I liked Kevin Spacey's portrayal as a pissed off Luthor.

I don't think there was enough Kent in the film, so that's a negative I guess.
-----Thought the kid getting an attack when he saw Kent's profile next to a tv image of Supes was funny though.

I liked how it attempted to stay true to form with the first two flicks, and liked seeing Marlon Brando's likeness and voice even though he's gone (RIP Brando)

My brother cited as a negative the one scene where Kent reminisces running through the fields. He thinks the movie was copying Spiderman I when Parker was experimenting with his powers.

I liked the "oh shit" feeling you get when you realize that the whole continent's laced with Kryptonite---though I really had to turn off my suspension of disbelief for that to work. Kryptonian tech is truly amazing. Him burning a hole beneath it though and lifting it into space was cool... Not too sure I understand how he was able to resist the kryptonite though. I just write it off as he drove so far beneath the forming continental mass and lifted up as much of the earth as he could to minimize exposure.
*shrug*

Dunno considering that there's nothing but humans and Supes and his technology in this film (oh yeah and kid too) I thought it went well.

Bro says I just liked the movie 'cause Superman was in it.
Well, yeah, the movies rep a hero with some strong values, who wouldn't?

I liked Spiderman 1 and 2 very much, but 3 just blew that's all.

[Zephyranthes]

I really like Spider-Man 3. It's an overblown Hollywood blockbuster, but it still entertained the hell out of me. I don't really care for either Sandman or Venom, so I didn't care that the movie brushed over their development as characters (Venom in particular). It had all the proper (or perhaps "formulaic" or "predictable" would be better terms) story beats for a melodrama, but I think that is why I enjoyed it. And I still like it more than the first two Spidey movies, both of which I liked quite a bit.

I think that's what Spider-Man is to me: a melodrama on a stage so grand that Stan Lee's words cannot contain it.

Also, 'cause you mentioned it, Helly, but I think Spider-Man is the most emo superhero there is. It's just a part of his heritage. Every other story back in the day was something like, "Spider-Man no more!" or "This is my blessing, this is my curse" or "If ONLY I didn't fail Uncle Ben..." He's a self-pitying machine who still gets the job done... and then pities himself some more.

But Superman Returns has got to be my favorite superhero movie. I don't think many other superhero movies can match up to its vision. It's one of my favorite comics movies in general. There was just something classy about the presentation. It was more about who Superman is and what he means to us. More thoughtful, or thought-provoking.

I guess the masses didn't buy into it, though. They probably just wanted to see Superman punch out some robots, or fight Doomsday or some shit.

Some comics pros weren't too down with it, either. I believe Morrison and Millar didn't like its interpretation of Superman. Part of it was because he was too mopey, and part of it was 'cause of the entire story and how they feel a Superman movie should be about grand ideas.

Anyway, that's why we read All-Star. Movies, television, film - it's all small potatoes compared to comics (aka The Preferred Artistic and Entertainment Medium of the Intellectually Elite).

[Pained Auron]

i wanna read the supes story drawn by yu. is it any good? not a big fan of supes but yu is amazing. so i'll give it a try

[goodm0urning]

My take on Spider-Man 3 is that it gets shat on a little too much. It doesn't deserve the browbeating it gets. That said, it is a significant step down from the previous films, which were pretty decent superhero movies. SM3 just bit off a little more than it could chew, particularly by attempting to wedge Venom in at the end of an already crowded storyline.

Superman Returns, on the other hand, was a superb take on the big guy. I'm not sure I'd say it's better than Superman: The Movie, which is the benchmark for superhero films, but I'm sure it would depend on which day you ask me.

I find it interesting that Morrison didn't like it. I think his Superman has a lot in common with the Brandon Routh/Bryan Singer Superman. The style of storytelling might be completely different, but the characterization itself is similar.

EDIT:

i wanna read the supes story drawn by yu. is it any good? not a big fan of supes but yu is amazing. so i'll give it a tryBirthright? It's okay. The kind of thing you read and put on the shelf for the next few months. Yu's artwork is kind of inconsistent. Sometimes it's great, and sometimes, it's like he did it while he was half asleep. (You'll notice, when the characters start looking a little... mongo.)

[Zephyranthes]

I think Morrison said he didn't like Superman Returns because Superman didn't perform many actions and spent too much time being introspective. Morrison said this was also a problem in Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, although he forgave how Moore treated Superman and still acknowledges it as one of the greats because because the plotting was so intense and perfect.

"Sooperrmahn. He shouldnae cray. I mean, I jus' cahnno have that hahpen! Sooperrmahn does no'h cray."
-Morrison's exact words (or close enough, 'cause I don't know the proper phonetics for a good Scottish accent)

[goodm0urning]

"Sooperrmahn. He shouldnae cray. I mean, I jus' cahnno have that hahpen! Sooperrmahn does no'h cray."
-Morrison's exact words (or close enough, 'cause I don't know the proper phonetics for a good Scottish accent)Yeah, I think that's a little more Irish. Though I'm not sure I'd know the difference if I were put to the test.

It's weird. Alan Moore and Grant Morrison have so much in common with the way they write Superman (or Supreme, as the case may be). It's odd that either would have issues with the other.

[Hellion]

I guess the masses didn't buy into it, though. They probably just wanted to see Superman punch out some robots, or fight Doomsday or some shit.

Unfortunately I am inclined to agree, I wish it wasn't so.
I hope they stick to their guns and don't let the next one get too "comical" like X3 or SM3.

[goodm0urning]

The plot of the next Superman movie has been revealed. (http://www.superdickery.com/other/17.html)

[Zephyranthes]

If only more comics today would have great covers like that. Those old-school covers really knew how to motivate you into checking out the contents.

So I read that Maggin story about the Guardians planting seeds of doubt into Superman's mind. That is a pretty nice story. The ending seemed kind of abrupt but, as a whole, the story was ahead of its time and has aged well. Also, I didn't want to say that it sucked because I fear goody's elitist wrath. BEST SUPERMAN STORY EVAH

[goodm0urning]

It was kind of abrupt, but it was a simpler time, when stories had to be short. I guess people figured they got more value from their comic if it had more than one story in it.

Obviously, they saw the error of their ways, since today's method of stretching one story over a year's worth of issues is way better.

[Zephyranthes]

So I've started reading Kirby's Jimmy Olsen run and I think I gained some insight into goody's secret identity. Check this out:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/asimov/20/compar14.html

goodm0urning = Don Rickles

[goodm0urning]

Broken pic.

And if I were Don Rickles, I'd probably get more ass.

[Zephyranthes]

All right, fixed it.

[goodm0urning]

Perhaps you're onto something. But perhaps, like Kal-El's twin alter-egos of Superman and Clark Kent, Goody and Don Rickles are two false identities that I've constructed in order to hide who I truly am from the world. Who would have thought that a one-dimensional crank like me could be so complex?

[Zephyranthes]

Superman and Big Barda were in a porn together. Mr. Miracle is one of my favorite dudes, too. I hate Superman... That small-minded fool is always getting his ass mindcontrolled.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3018039.html#cutid1

I can't tell if John Byrne was trying to be funny or if he genuinely thought this would be a good story. But to me, this ranks very highly on the Unintentional Comedy Meter. I'd give it at least an 8 out of 10. It's an automatic 10 if I discover for a fact that Byrne actually thought this would be a good piece of work.

[goodm0urning]

Oh, come on, you know Byrne was dead serious when he came up with this crap.

[Zephyranthes]

Byrne makes me laugh so hard! He doesn't even have to try. It's AUTOMATIC, BABY.

[ReggieHadoken]

Zeph, loving the new Darkseid av, you're pimping. :tup:

I've got a delima: which Supes trade should I buy next, Secret Identity or Red Sun?

[goodm0urning]

I've got a delima: which Supes trade should I buy next, Secret Identity or Red Sun?They're both good. Grab the first available. If they're both available, then I guess I'd suggest Red Son, as Secret Identity technically does not feature Superman.

And if anybody ever needs a quick Super-fix, I was leafing through DC's "Superman in the [insert decade here]" collections this morning. Superman in the 60s has a lot of really good stuff in it. Next in line would probably be Superman in the 40s, which actually includes a few of the 30s stories as well.

[Zephyranthes]

I like Secret Identity more than Red Son. Red Son is basically just a really damn fun Elseworlds superhero story with nice artwork. Secret Identity's about as close to Vertigo as Superman can get. Other than It's A Bird... of course. Also, I enjoy being contrary to goody. He's like, Bizarro-Zephy.

Personally, I do not see the purpose of the "Superman in the [decade]" TPBs. None of them are as good as anything from the '90s. The Death of Superman, aka The Second Greatest Comics Epic of All Time, is pretty much THE final stamp on the character. (And it is the greatest selling "graphic novel" of all time. The fact that it has sold so much simply goes to show that everyone likes it because it is so extremely wonderful.) I mean, Superman dies in that story. It doesn't get more epic than that.

[goodm0urning]

I like Secret Identity more than Red Son. Red Son is basically just a really damn fun Elseworlds superhero story with nice artwork. Secret Identity's about as close to Vertigo as Superman can get. Other than It's A Bird... of course. Also, I enjoy being contrary to goody. He's like, Bizarro-Zephy.Red Son might be primarily fun (particularly Batman's head gear), but it does have some good stuff to say about Superman as a character--specifically, what he might be like if his natural compulsion to help people was filtered through an authoritarian upbringing, rather than good old fashioned American values.

Personally, I do not see the purpose of the "Superman in the [decade]" TPBs. None of them are as good as anything from the '90s. The Death of Superman, aka The Second Greatest Comics Epic of All Time, is pretty much THE final stamp on the character. (And it is the greatest selling "graphic novel" of all time. The fact that it has sold so much simply goes to show that everyone likes it because it is so extremely wonderful.) I mean, Superman dies in that story. It doesn't get more epic than that.John Byrne didn't write it. Therefore, it is naturally second rate.

[nameingway]

Red Son might be primarily fun (particularly Batman's head gear), but it does have some good stuff to say about Superman as a character--specifically, what he might be like if his natural compulsion to help people was filtered through an authoritarian upbringing, rather than good old fashioned American values.

John Byrne didn't write it. Therefore, it is naturally second rate.


this reason alone warrants red son coming first. please, do yourself a favor reggie, go for the commie superman.

[goodm0urning]

this reason alone warrants red son coming first. One of my friends is both a communist and has a wool ear flap hat. He also loved Red Son. I have him nearly convinced to convert his hat into the Batman hat.

[nameingway]

my god man, you understand how fucking awesome that is... but i don't think others (read: people who haven't peeped red son) truly comprehend.

your friend has a ruskie hat. are you a bad enough dude to convince him to convert the hat into ruskie bats hat?

(please if you make this happen, post a picture for me)

[goodm0urning]

my god man, you understand how fucking awesome that is... but i don't think others (read: people who haven't peeped red son) truly comprehend.

your friend has a ruskie hat. are you a bad enough dude to convince him to convert the hat into ruskie bats hat?

(please if you make this happen, post a picture for me)For great justice, if I can convince him to go through with it, there will be pics.

[ReggieHadoken]

Hmmmn. I think I'll go with Red Sun first then Secret ID.

I was wondering what my fellow Superman fans felt about the Super TAS version of Clark Kent? He wasn't the bumbling oaf that seems to be so dominant in most modern Supes stories, which was fine by me. I like clusty Kent but I feel that when they use him too much it just diminishes the Clark aspect of Supes.

[Zephyranthes]

The Animated Series Superman is basically the definitive Superman of the past couple decades. It was like the only high profile Superman thing of the '90s that was actually good. I remember trying to read Superman comics and not really getting into them when I was a kid. I thought Superman was a tool. But the Dini/Timm show was the first encounter I had with Superman that made me start thinking he was interesting.

Just compare the writing on the show to any of the Superman comics of the time. I don't think any of those comics comes close to measuring up.

[goodm0urning]

Yeah, Superman: TAS was pretty much the only saving grace for the big guy in the 90s. I did think that their Clark was a little weak. Tim Daly did a great job as Supes, but it was pretty impossible to believe that Clark could be a different person.

When I was a little kid, I pretty much knew Superman from the Fleischer shorts and the movies with Christopher Reeve, which are pretty well steeped in the pre-Crisis era. When I started buying comics, not only did I dislike stories of the current Super-books, but I also barely recognized him as the character I knew. Clark was so outgoing and assertive that he really was just Superman in a pair of glasses, and that's a big problem with a lot of the post-Crisis interpretations. Clark doesn't necessarily have to constantly be doing pratfalls, but he does have to have that timid, mild-mannered streak in him. His personality is the majority of the disguise, not the glasses.

[Hellion]

What do you think Superman will most likely do once his Clark image dies? Just remain Supes, or craft another image?

[goodm0urning]

What do you think Superman will most likely do once his Clark image dies? Just remain Supes, or craft another image?Good question. He'll probably return as Clark's long-lost son, nephew, cousin, or whatever. Just being Superman full time isn't really a viable option for him.

In most speculative future stories that take place after Clark Kent has gone by the wayside, Supes can be charitably described as unhinged.


I've been temporarily without new material (until I grab the new Ex Machina TPB tomorrow), so I mini-binged on Supes, rereading both Red Son and All Star Supes, Volume 1. Nothing quite like kicking back and enjoying the best Superman that modern comics has to offer.

[Zephyranthes]

Speaking of the new Ex Machina, The Escapists finally came out in hardcover this week. We gotta get that.

I just read Superman: Where Is Thy Sting? by DeMatteis and Liam Sharp. It's a prestige format one-shot from a couple years back and I just came across it randomly while browsing at the store. Not too much action in it but plenty of DeMatteis-style introspection about life, death, and morality, Krypton style. It was a good read and just the right length. The artwork was nice and had some intricate details and memorable imagery.

[ReggieHadoken]

Been a while since I picked up a Super comic or a trade. I'm way past due on All-Star #9. When is #10 supposed to come out? When Bush gets kicked out of office?

I've said it before but I really wan cop DC Universe: The Stories of Alan Moore. Everyone says he does a great Supes.

BTW, which do you guys think is the better voice actor for DCAU Superman: Tim Daly or Greg Newbern? I think they both play the character pretty well but I think Greg feels a lot more natural as The Man of Steel.

[goodm0urning]

Been a while since I picked up a Super comic or a trade. I'm way past due on All-Star #9. When is #10 supposed to come out? When Bush gets kicked out of office?I hope to get some ASS on my birthday. Which is in March.

I've said it before but I really wan cop DC Universe: The Stories of Alan Moore. Everyone says he does a great Supes. This would be a rare occasion on which Everyone is correct. Most of the other stories in this collection are excellent as well.

BTW, which do you guys think is the better voice actor for DCAU Superman: Tim Daly or Greg Newbern? I think they both play the character pretty well but I think Greg feels a lot more natural as The Man of Steel.I prefer Tim Daly. It's not that George Newbern sucks, it's just that Superman doesn't get a lot of time to shine in JL/U. Daly had to hold up his own series for three seasons, and he did a marvelous job as the Big Guy. (Clark, not so much, though again, Newbern barely even got a shot at the milder side of Superman, so Daly pretty much wins it by default.)

[Zephyranthes]

Did anyone read Superman: True Brit by John Byrne? I heard it's the greatest Superman OGN of the past 19 years. That's what everyone on the Byrne forum says, and I believe them because they are very smart people there.

You know, I never really noticed too much difference between Newbern and Daly. When I first watched JL, it took me some time before I realized it was a different voice actor. Newbern's performances seemed to improve with time, though. I was just watching some episodes last night and he does a nice job sounding angry at Batman in that Brainiac/Darkseid two-parter. I don't remember Daly ever portraying Superman with that kind of undiluted venom. On the other hand, like goody said, Daly's the master at the mild-mannered aspect of Superman - and at the end of the day, I suppose that's what counts the most.

[goodm0urning]

I was actually just watching that episode not too long ago. Superman pretty much told Bats to "GTFO," which is uncharacteristically firm of that particular version of the character.

My ultimate misgiving with the JL version of Supes is that he's a wimp. Early on in the series, he's physically weak outright, and even later on, he's still dumb and indecisive. There are other reasons to like the show, but their treatment of Supes during that time always rankled me. By contrast, Bats was too good. He could run, jump, and punch as well as the superpowered characters, which is too much even for him.

I understand that if Supes was as awesome as he typically is, then there wouldn't be much of a point to having six other characters constantly following him around, but come on. He's SUPERman. Respect, please.

EDIT:

I haven't read True Brit. I hear it's kind of funny, so I might pick it up sometime, but it's not exactly on my "must have" list.

(My next acquisition is going to be Absolute Watchmen, come hell or high water.)

[Zephyranthes]

Anything by Byrne is funny. Not that he ever gets the joke.

[Akutabi Gamma]

Read Death of Superman yesterday, Doomsday was broken as fuck.

[Zephyranthes]

http://www.uploadgeek.com/uploads456/0/batman_hat.jpg

I hope that link works.

[goodm0urning]

http://www.uploadgeek.com/uploads456/0/batman_hat.jpg

I hope that link works.My favorite "Bat Hat" picture is actually in the sketch pages in the back of the book. There's one of Bats looking really stern, and there's an arrow pointing at his head with a caption that reads "with hat!" It cracks me the fuck up for some reason.

[nameingway]

http://www.uploadgeek.com/uploads456/0/batman_hat.jpg

I hope that link works.

oh man that is good stuff. that hat honestly diserves it's own thread, probably.

[orochizoolander]

I never really liked supes i don't hate him it's just the idea of a nearly omnipotent being with the 100% boyscout mentality always made him seem a bit too two-dimensional and boring for my taste.

Can anyone reccommend any supes hardcovers/tpb's worth reading? Preferably an origin story detailing more then just "his parents sent him on a rocket n krypton exploded" like batman year one or anything taking place in normal DC continuity cuz elsewhere tales usually turn me off unless there really well written like DKR .

My old manager at gamestop said there was a really good story bout how supes failed to save louis lane or something n it made him into some badass not afraid to unleash his full power n then metallo showed up n got fuckedup royally see now THAT would be cool to see supes the "boyscout" play a not so heroic role.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkseid

Whats the deal with darkseid he sounds too badass to be thrown int othe edge of the universe by supes but i guess the goodguy always has to win anyways are there any good darkseid stories?

[goodm0urning]

Honestly, if you want the best Supes origin ever told, it's not going to be in comic form. So far, every comic that has tackled it and attempted to resolve all the different versions into a satisfying whole has either failed or done a mediocre job of it.

Rent Superman: TAS, Volume One. The first episode is your Superman origin.

The best handling of it in the comics, for my money, is page one of All Star Supes #1: four panels, four captions. It takes care of the basic details in one fell swoop, which is really all you need in this day and age.

A couple of Superman TPBs/HCs to start you off: All Star Supes vol. 1, The DC Universe Stories of Alan Moore (includes two landmark Supes stories from the 80s), Superman in the 60s (some important primer material for the Weisinger era), Superman: Red Son (the Elseworlds story that we've been nattering on about here).

Darkseid is cool, but he's really not a Superman character, even though he is often associated with Superman. He originally comes from Jack Kirby's Fourth World, and has since become one of the all-around baddest villains of the DC universe.

[ReggieHadoken]

I gotta be honest. Superman TAS really educated me on the character. I always loved the character as a kid but when I started watching STAS years ago, it really was surprising how little I knew about him. If not for STAS, I'd still be a stranger to some of Supe's foes like Brainiac, Parasite, and Darkseid.

[Akutabi Gamma]

http://www.uploadgeek.com/uploads456/0/batman_hat.jpg

I hope that link works.

What the hell...?:confused:

[nameingway]

if you do not understand batman's hat, read superman red son.

[Akutabi Gamma]

Darkseid is cool, but he's really not a Superman character, even though he is often associated with Superman. He originally comes from Jack Kirby's Fourth World, and has since become one of the all-around baddest villains of the DC universe.

I've been meaning to read the first issues that Darksied & the New Gods first appeared in; which one should I start with?

[goodm0urning]

I've been meaning to read the first issues that Darksied & the New Gods first appeared in; which one should I start with?I can't vouch for their quality, but New Gods and the rest of Kirby's Fourth World books have been collected into omnibuses. They're supposed to be nice.

[nameingway]

i like the 4th world and it's intereaction between the first? well, whatever world it is that all the people who love and hate, chill.

speaking of hate, i hate jim starlin captaining possibly one of the worst series ever, called simply, "Death of the New Gods".

[Zephyranthes]

I have been slowly working my way through Kirby's Fourth World stuff over the past couple weeks. I don't have the Omnibuses, but I am sure those are great. I just have the black and white TPBs. (The Jimmy Olsen stuff is in color.)

I think these comics haven't aged badly. The dialogue is kind of hokey, but at least it's not overly repetitive and wordy. The plots are fantastic and there's just new ideas in every issue. I could imagine being a young man when this stuff first came out and just getting my mind blown, like a Morrison or Milligan comic today. Even if you can't stand old-school dialogue, I think the storytelling more than makes up for any deficiencies. There is just a passion in the artwork that brings the stories to life. The technical mastery of the craft is something that just keeps me fascinated and reading.

So far I've read all of the Jimmy Olsen, all of The Forever People, the first 10 issues of Mister Miracle, and about 6 or 8 issues of New Gods. All are awesome, but I think so far my personal fave is Mister Miracle. I got a new mancrush on that character. There's definitely a thrilling sense of action and adventure in in all of these Kirby comics that just makes them great reads. I can only imagine that the Omnibus magnifies that feeling hundredfold due to superior paper and remastered coloring.

[P. Gorath]

actually the paper in the omniboo is not superior (cheap newsprint) but the color is awesome, as is the experience reading them in the exact order they were released. Plus very nice intros from Grant Morrison among others.

[goodm0urning]

Variety Magazine has reported that Bryan Singer may not be doing a Superman sequel after all. They did not give a specific reason, but pointed out that his work on Valkyrie, plus his prepping of another film in the meantime, make it appear as though he is not making time in his schedule for Man of Steel.

That, and the next Superman was scheduled to start shooting in a few months and they don't even have a script yet, as his writing team recently left the project.

Looks like Warners got what they want: a Justice League movie bum-rushed into production, and plenty of room for it with Superman on the back-burner. Big Blue's seat on the sidelines probably hasn't even had a chance to cool off yet.

[Rugal 3:16]

Anyone has more info on Curt Swan IMO The Best Superman Artist of all time.. he doesn't seem to have an autobiography book..

as well as Elliot S! Maggin (which I had the privilege to talk to)

[Rugal 3:16]

Exile At The Edge Of Eternity is pretty epic. It's short, but it's epic in scope. Check it out. It's written and drawn by everybody's favorite former escape artists-turned-awesome comic book guy.

Also, six days. Hopefully.

Are you .. Super Monkey from Great Rao's Defunct Superman Through The Ages site???

BTW I picked up the Kryptonian Kompanion, IMO the best resource for Pre-Crisis Supes.

[ReggieHadoken]

Finally got around to reading my copy of All-Star Superman #9. Another great issue. Guess now I'll build a bomb shelter while I wait for issue 10 to drop.

[goodm0urning]

Finally got around to reading my copy of All-Star Superman #9. Another great issue. Guess now I'll build a bomb shelter while I wait for issue 10 to drop.Well, the bimonthly deadline approaches in only a week or so... so that means we probably only have three or four months left to wait.

EDIT:

Ish 10 is currently set for a March arrival. So expect it by summer.

[Rugal 3:16]

If anybody has any questions, I will field them here.

A brief history:

Superman debuted in Action Comics #1, in June of 1938. You know the issue, because the cover tells a story in itself: some gangsters decided to fuck with Superman's shit, but he was like, "HELL NO" and he fucked up their car and threatened to stick the bumper up the driver's ass. Superman doesn't fuck around, especially when he has your car and a convenient rock to smash it on. You'd better have your insurance paid up, bitch.

Superman later learned to fly, and why the fuck not? Gangsters aren't even safe in airplanes anymore. Better hope there aren't any flying rocks for him to smash your plane on, or you're screwed.

Eventually, all the gangsters in Metropolis just gave up and called it a day, because really, you're a god damn retard if you're trying to make a living of petty crimes in Superman's favorite city in the world. However, there were no shortage of evil supervillains who came to town looking for a piece. Superman sent the bad guys packing, because by this point he was powerful enough to do anything. Brainiac? Nope. Lex Luthor? Pshaw. Even when depowered, Supes thoroughly owned the Great Bald One.

Then DC planned to write Superman out of existence and replace him with a newer, weaker Superman who probably liked margarine and scrambled porn. But fear not, because the real deal was given a grand send-off by Alan Moore, who writes like your mom fucks: it goes on forever and it is never anything less than excellent.

But that's not all for Superman. Eventually, he was brought back by Grant Morrison in All Star Superman, a series so excellent that presidents have perjured themselves and ex-football stars have murdered their uppity wives in order to obtain the latest issue. I would shiv your firstborn child in order to make #9 come out just a little bit sooner. The Big Guy is back, and any gangster smart enough to not want a bumper up his ass is running and hiding as we speak.


Superman was indeed the first Anti-Hero if we're reffering to the early Siegel and Shuster Days, he even KILLS Ultra Humanite in one issue, tosses some hijackers off of a plane in another, destroys illegal slum dwellers in yet another, doesn't have any qualms about intimidating and taking money from other people (for the greater good)

He was IMO like Spider-man was in the 60's or how Stold Cold Steve Austin was during the Boom of the attitude era in wrestling, he was a revolutionizer. SOMEONE who we could either relate to or/and be an escapist that does something we wish we could do remember Supes was indeed created during the depression era, so unlike Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, S&S they had no other basis except for hardness of life and experience in the Fan-zine/Sci-fi field.

Of course this all changed when the Demographics catered more towards children, Although Steranko stated in his "History of comics" that this transitional era was the WORST pf all the superman eras, you can simply call this the Science-fictionization of superman.. more aliens, more villains etc.

Fast forward to the Reboot, it's unfair to Write-off the post crisis era by Byrne since that's the superman most of this genration (including myself) grown up with..

although IT'S TRUE that the post-crisis era all the way into the 90's presented superman as someone who actually FAILS to cause change, and inspire quality of life like his previous incarnation did, you have to look at the direction of comic books in general, so it's almost understandable why he is then was a frustrated crusader failing and failing at every turn. That was an era where rebelliousness was at it's highest and in today's pessimistic world people LOVE (subconsiously) to see heroes fall.

In the future I will be posting here some workings of both Pre and Post crisis, I'm not surprised though that names like

Wayne Boring
Curt Swan
E Nelson Bridwell
Julius Schwartz
and yes even Mort Weisinger haven't been mentioned in this thread yet but i'm about to fix that..

Supes unlike every other Superhero out in the market today isn't just about his "personality" (arguable to people whether he has one or not), Supporting characters and rogues Gallery.

Superman's Appeal is his entire Mythos which transcends all of thos written above which I will also get into more dtail later

I seem to be the only Comic book-historian here, although goodm0urning also has done his homework on supes here.

[goodm0urning]

Just to be clear, the Superman which I personally believe captures the most essential appeal of the character would be of the Weisinger era. That's the corner I speak from on Superman-related topics, as well as the standard by which I evaluate Superman comics and other assorted stories.

That's not to say that all I care about is the Weisinger era... just that the particular version of the character who populates those stories is my favorite, and that the stories I like tend to be the ones with traits most reminiscent of that time. In the explosion of new superheroes following both the introduction of Superman and the boom of the Silver Age, there were plenty of characters to fill the mold of the two-fisted hero-in-tights . So Supes is really at his best when his other special characteristics--his alien heritage and his strict ethical code, for example--are used as storytelling material.

[Rugal 3:16]

So Supes is really at his best when his other special characteristics--his alien heritage and his strict ethical code, for example--are used as storytelling material.

You hit the nail in the head on that one, even though the Weisinger era stories ARE indeed formulaic, they always breathe something new into the characters perspective.. also that was an era where you do not need an antagonist to create conflict, it can be a puzzle-solving problem type of story that requires readers to actually think (if they can get past the hokey dialogue) based on it's context of what worked.. basically every other silver-age or marvel age comic i;ve read in that era involved little more than just bashing the brains of an opponent over flavoured with just "Character development" and ongoing plot-line.

BTW Weisinger era supes indeed HAS character

1. He has a SICK pleasure of playing with Lois' heart with all of those silly (but fun) stories involving how lois tries to prove clark is superman

2. He shows some ENVY when another superhero comes in and temporarily takes his place

3. He is a wandering/Outcast longing for home, clearly stating that being Superman is a lonely lonely Job, Angst without Pessimism at it's best (I actually prefer to be in spidey's place and be hated but still somehow have belongingness rather than be Loved like in the Siegel tales but in the grander scheme of things be looked as somone infallible, the burden is TOO great)

[goodm0urning]

Superman/JL movie news (http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4357&Itemid=99) Common Keeping Justice League Hope Alive PDF Print E-mail
Written by IESB Staff
Wednesday, 20 February 2008

Common, the man who would be bringing John Stewart/The Green Lantern to life is keeping hope alive for Justice League.

Ronnie over at JFX ran into Common and got an update on the Justice League live-action film. "Now that the writers strike is over, [the script is] going to head back to the writers for a cleanup. God willing, it’ll get done. This would be a big role for me,” Common tells JFX.

There is no doubt that The Green Lantern would be a big role for the Hip-Hop superstar but will the re-write get done anytime soon?

IESB sources in Australia tell us that there are early rumblings within the studio that the film might, and this is a big might, be having a second shot come sometime this summer.

At the same time, we also been hearing sources at WB Burbank who believe that The Man of Steel is picking up speed and since the strike ended various "A" list writers have gone in with promising pitches. Bryan Singer is still attached and the studio big wigs are still counting on him directing the sequel.I could give a fuck about the Justice League movie, but any Superman news at this point has me excited.

[goodm0urning]

Also, I picked up all three TPBs of Superman: Strength. I got a pretty awesome discount for buying them all together. I'll post my thoughts here when I'm done with it.

[ReggieHadoken]

Is All-Star Superman #10 coming out soon? That bomb shelter I started working on a few months back is getting to be a pretty nice side. Got a nice kitchen area, game room and a place for comics. Ya'll need to escape the end or something, just hit me up.

[goodm0urning]

Is All-Star Superman #10 coming out soon? That bomb shelter I started working on a few months back is getting to be a pretty nice side. Got a nice kitchen area, game room and a place for comics. Ya'll need to escape the end or something, just hit me up.Sometime in March, if it hasn't been delayed.

Superman: Strength is pretty good. The artwork is shit, but the story is a nice little parable about the man. And there are some wacky Weisinger-esque happenings, atypical for "modern" Superman.

[ReggieHadoken]

My comic shop has a copy of All-Star Superman #1 for $3.95. I'm gonna grab that sometime if it's still there.

Man it seems like Superman/Batman went to crap when Alan Burnette left. I guess I'll just collect his run in trade form. Why must two of the greatest heroes be subject to sucky writing? :sad:

[P. Gorath]

grant morrison interview part 3 is up at newsarama and it focuses on all star superman. pretty great read. http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=149066

Someone in comments posted this from an older interview I thought was awesome:
"I can assure fans that there will be no fill-in artists on this book. It's me and Frank for 12 full issues. That's the deal, the whole deal and nothing but."

"Superman's the best superhero, Frank's the best artist. It had to be him."

He also mentions he is planning a series of three 2-part A.S.S. books after the 12 issues is over

[goodm0urning]

grant morrison interview part 3 is up at newsarama and it focuses on all star superman. pretty great read. http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=149066

Someone in comments posted this from an older interview I thought was awesome:


He also mentions he is planning a series of three 2-part A.S.S. books after the 12 issues is overFuck yeah.




March 19th, guys... get out there and get yourselves some A.S.S.

[P. Gorath]

i have another year until I can read issue #7 and beyond...

[ReggieHadoken]

The wait for All-Star Superman is just too freaking long. Bomb shelter is finished if anyone cares. Maybe I'll pick up Secret Identity and read it 50 times while waiting for All-Star Supes #11 to come out after I've picked up issue 10. BTW, who will succeed Morrison when he leaves the book after issue 12? I want to know if I should keep reading the book or drop it like I did that imposter that's now running around in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man. :arazz:

[goodm0urning]

Barring a last minute delay, ASS #10 appears to be on track for this Wednesday.

The last time I bought a new issue of All Star Superman, I was pr