Tournament Blackheart

[joe doe]

Hey Folks,

I was checking the threads and even though there is a ton of info on blackheart, there is not enough info of tournament tested teams where blackheart is a PLAYABLE(not only for assisst) character.

Ex.
Team watts===> it's a well known tournament ready team which is well
known for it's defense and turtling abilities. It's a solid
team which uses blackheart as it's main character.
However, it is incredibly weak against Team Scrub, and
sadly enough team Scrub It's one of the most popular
Torney team out there.

Anyone that wants to add to it can, or if you know of any other torney tested teams please post it with some comments on its abilities and weakness. For those of you who wonder what's the use for this thread, well it is to instruct people on how to choose their blackheart teams correctly, i am tired of seeing people getting owned by Damned scrubs just because they didn't think before choosing the correct team for team they were up against.

Ex. Team watts vs. Team scrub

this is a terrible choice, on the part of the blackheart player, Team Watts it's an at terrible Disadvantage here. But if The player were to choose:

Blackheart/Sentinel(cable?)/ DOOM vs. Scrub

This is a good choice to make if you are facing scrub. You should start with sentinel Rush cable with doom, don't worry about the AHVB at the start of the fight he'll only have one so even if you eat it you'll be ok. Get on top of cable as soon as possible call doom as many time as possible and ship cable to death.
Even if thing don't go they way you want this team has enough DEFENSE to withstand a couple of AHVBs without fear of loosing the character. Blackheart can also turtle very well with doom and sentinel backing him up.

Well, there you go if anyone has any insight on tournament tested team with blackheart in it please post it with some info on how to use it ( like i did above)

[Gasp]

and what tournament did you test this team out at?

blackheart is weak against cable period, so why not start off with sent.

[joe doe]

local tourneys mainly, im from NY so now days the competitions is held elsewhere
mainly NJ.

Also i did say that you need to start sentinel with this team( read the bottom portion of my previous post). Since what you want to do is fly above cable while calling doom. That way you prevent capcom from hitting you thus creating space between you and calble, and that is something you don't want.

Also a good Blackheart can OWN any cable at any time. Quite frankly the only time cable has the upper hand against MY blackheart, is when he has Sentinel And Capcom backing him up.

[joe doe]

although a lot of people are not interested in this thread :sad:. i Still want to give it some sort of finish since i am the kind of guy that doesn't like to leave things unfinished.

There are a couple of team that can be tourney ready, although they are kind of cookie-cutter. But they actually work quite well.

1.- CAMMY(AAA)/BLACKHEART(AAA)/TRON B. (proj.)

-> It doesn't get any cookier than this, Quite frankly if you play this team in a tournament people will quickly put you in the NOOB section. But believe it or not this team is nasty when played against team SCRUB. Cammy/Tron is a very hard to deal with duo, then put black heart in the mix to stop all those flying sentinel. Simply put, team Scrub have very little options as to what they can do to stop it.
Take My word for and try it!!!

2.- BLACKHEART(AAA)/CABLE(AAA)/CAPCOM(AAA)

-> A Well known team for all blackheart players, Is an exellent all around team. It can hold it's own against santhrax, Scrub, RowTron, Etc. However it has an terrible weakness against MSP. So if you think an msp player is playing you next you might want to use another team.

3.- MAGNETO(PROJ.)/BLACKHEART(AAA)/CYCLOPS(AAA)

-> This team is practically unknown, But believe it or not it's actually very effective and all around. This team has no weakness, mags./blackheart have a bunch of easy cross ups, also black heart AAA slows down your opponent making it easy for magneto to rushdown. If you are tired of the constant rushdown then try this team and join all those infinite friendly bastard!!

4.-BLACKHEART(AAA)/SENTINEL(DRONES)/CYCLOPS(AAA)

-> The little brother of team watts! It may be so but this team can give all of those TRON B. AND DOOM based team a run for their money,It can also be effective against MSP. However it shares team Watts weakness, Team Scrub!

[teamrandom]

What about BlackHeart (AAA)/ Cable (AAA)/ Sentinel (RocketPunch)?
Pros and cons of using this team? Bad match ups? I used it occasionally back then against this one guy, but he sucked. It was almost free wins for me, lol. Maybe you can test it out against real comp, since I don't have any.

[eczangief]

No reason why Spiral/BH/xx can't last in a tournament setting. See Vidness' BH/Spiral teams.

[Sentinel_Cheese]

BH Guile Sent, BH Guile Doom, BH Sent Capcom....Pretty Bh with any Anti Air assist is pretty good ...

[BayouBoy]

although a lot of people are not interested in this thread :sad:. i Still want to give it some sort of finish since i am the kind of guy that doesn't like to leave things unfinished.

There are a couple of team that can be tourney ready, although they are kind of cookie-cutter. But they actually work quite well.

1.- CAMMY(AAA)/BLACKHEART(AAA)/TRON B. (proj.)

-> It doesn't get any cookier than this, Quite frankly if you play this team in a tournament people will quickly put you in the NOOB section. But believe it or not this team is nasty when played against team SCRUB. Cammy/Tron is a very hard to deal with duo, then put black heart in the mix to stop all those flying sentinel. Simply put, team Scrub have very little options as to what they can do to stop it.
Take My word for and try it!!!

2.- BLACKHEART(AAA)/CABLE(AAA)/CAPCOM(AAA)

-> A Well known team for all blackheart players, Is an exellent all around team. It can hold it's own against santhrax, Scrub, RowTron, Etc. However it has an terrible weakness against MSP. So if you think an msp player is playing you next you might want to use another team.

3.- MAGNETO(PROJ.)/BLACKHEART(AAA)/CYCLOPS(AAA)

-> This team is practically unknown, But believe it or not it's actually very effective and all around. This team has no weakness, mags./blackheart have a bunch of easy cross ups, also black heart AAA slows down your opponent making it easy for magneto to rushdown. If you are tired of the constant rushdown then try this team and join all those infinite friendly bastard!!

4.-BLACKHEART(AAA)/SENTINEL(DRONES)/CYCLOPS(AAA)

-> The little brother of team watts! It may be so but this team can give all of those TRON B. AND DOOM based team a run for their money,It can also be effective against MSP. However it shares team Watts weakness, Team Scrub!

hey i was just thinking about that Mag/BH/Cyke team that team could be nasty. I have played with Storm/BH/Cyke or Commando even though i think cyke would be better. Cyke sets up so much for storm and BH. Im getting tired of the same teams all the time santhax, m/s/s, rowtron etc.

[joe doe]

ok, well concerning the question about BLACKHEART(AAA)/SENTINEL(DRONES) )/ CABLE(AAA), well i have personally used this team. I actually played it against sanford and i think on justing wong once, however it didn't go so well. Blackheart can hold his on against mags. but in the end you'll end up using your assisst to much and loose a character in the proccess. Sentinel is actually the star in this team, you should be constantly calling drones with balckheart's AAA. Detain your opponent fly, stomp,...etc. kind of an very annoying game but with a crap load of chip damage. It works excelently agains slow characters (scrub!!) how ever it kind of looses against MSP, Santhrax, Rowtron, etc... Not a Bad team but you really need to work hard to rack up the wins with this team especially if there are a lot of msp players

also BLACKHEART(AAA)/SPIRAL(PROJ.)/CAPCOM(AAA), it's a fun team for sure but it is not a tournament team at all. It has too many opening, and spiral can't really do a trap with blackheart. Well at least not a very effective one.

Also sentinel cheese it is true that blackheart can do well with most AAA in the game but if you don't choose the other to characters carefully you'll endup loosing in no time. Blackheart is a good character but it uses a lot of assissts so making him your main character for doing damage is very risky

[BayouBoy]

im thinking about playing BH/Storm/Cammy. I know everyone is gonna say put in commando put he sucks when its time to play with him. Cyclops is good too but sometimes he doesnt cut it. ive heard that BH/Guile works real good too. anyone know anything about it

[Backfire]

im thinking about playing BH/Storm/Cammy. I know everyone is gonna say put in commando put he sucks when its time to play with him. Cyclops is good too but sometimes he doesnt cut it. ive heard that BH/Guile works real good too. anyone know anything about it



agreed with Cyke on the team, my main team is pretty much BH/Storm/Cyke or Capcom, pends on who im facin really, if i gotta change it i change it up but even Cable can work in place of capcom and cyke so u always got a few choices really.

[BayouBoy]

yeah i never tried cable i might have to try that.

[joe doe]

hey guys, i actually tried BLACKHEART(AAA)/STORM(r)/CABLE(AAA) for a while and well...All i have to say about this team is that it work on paper like a charm but in real life you really have to work for a win. I mean a cable is not a bad AAA but he doesn't do that much damage and he goes way to fast to be able to combo off him effectively. So if you guy want a better suggestion use BLACKHEART(AAA)/STORM(r)/CAPCOM. NOw this team does a good amount of damage and if you are really good with storm you can rack up the wins very easily and constantly. Trust me i've played it against really good tournament players.

[BayouBoy]

i think ima stick with BH/Storm/Cyke becuz commando just plain sucks on point and i hate picking a person just for an assist. Then Cyke keeps a person is block stun longer too giving BH/storm more time to get back on the attack. Cammy is a good assist, but its harder to connect the InfernoxxHOD with her than commando or cyke. Ima experiment with Bh/Cable/Cyke too i didnt realize how good this team could be till recently. BH builds meter faster than storm, mag, hell maybe even spiral that could be instant death for any team including MSP

[joe doe]

well, if you feel more comfortable with cyc., well then go ahead you might actually do more damage with cyc. then with capcom. I seen people pick capcom as an assisst and totally suck with him yet pick cyc. and they do a ton of shit. so if cyc works better for you then go ahead man!

By the way becareful with balckheart/cable/cyclops this team tends to deceive a lot of people. This team works great on scrubs but when you get to the upper level game this team sucks! so unless you are like a upper level Blackheart player i sugest you stay clear of this team or you'll be up for a rude awakening:looney:

[BayouBoy]

well, if you feel more comfortable with cyc., well then go ahead you might actually do more damage with cyc. then with capcom. I seen people pick capcom as an assisst and totally suck with him yet pick cyc. and they do a ton of shit. so if cyc works better for you then go ahead man!

By the way becareful with balckheart/cable/cyclops this team tends to deceive a lot of people. This team works great on scrubs but when you get to the upper level game this team sucks! so unless you are like a upper level Blackheart player i sugest you stay clear of this team or you'll be up for a rude awakening:looney:

OK ILL KEEP THAT IN MIND. I WAS EXPERIMENTING WITH BH/TRON, THAT SHIT TAKE HELLA DAMAGE WHEN COMBOED TOGETHER.

[Backfire]

Even Storm/BH dhc into geddon with storms air combo. But ill agree a little with bh/storm/cable u gotta work for a win but u can still do it , even if u battery 5 bars and toss in cable u can take them down a bit with ahvb. If u stick to Bh/storm/cyke u got x2 batteries and 3 abusers of supers. if u got Bh/storm/Cable u got just basically 3 super whores, and x1 batteries, There are alot of things to do it's just up to who u can use id say and if u can use all the teams just use ur judgement then i guess.

[joe doe]

hey guys I have another tournament Blackheart team (tested) ready. Drum Roll please......,

BLACKHEART(AAA)/SENTINEL(DRONES)/TRON B.(PROJ.)


This team is simply put SICKKKKK!!! We all ready know how nasty can sentinel/tron combo can be, now add BLACKHEART/TRON B. to the equation. How ever i will add that i seemed to have found a problem in dealing with STORM/SENTINEL/CAPCOM but it can be dealt with, you just need to have a lot of skill. So that is it, try it and post what you guys think about the team.:wgrin:

[BayouBoy]

hey guys I have another tournament Blackheart team (tested) ready. Drum Roll please......,

BLACKHEART(AAA)/SENTINEL(DRONES)/TRON B.(PROJ.)


This team is simply put SICKKKKK!!! We all ready know how nasty can sentinel/tron combo can be, now add BLACKHEART/TRON B. to the equation. How ever i will add that i seemed to have found a problem in dealing with STORM/SENTINEL/CAPCOM but it can be dealt with, you just need to have a lot of skill. So that is it, try it and post what you guys think about the team.:wgrin:

i was thinking about that team, but i think bh/sent kinda needs an aaa against mag, storm, and sent just for more breathing room. but yeah that team is nasty especially bh/tron. just c.lk c.lk+tron assist straight into HOD is at least half life most of the time.

[jaded]

i think you're missing the best bh team in the game (only one that I think is legitimately tourney worthy): bh/cable/cyc

those assists are the 2 best assists cable can ask for in the game. bh assist forces you to move, cyc assist penalizes you for moving in on cable.

straight up nasty.

[StiltMan]

BH/Cable/Cyclops has fairly good defense, and I think it's probably better than BH/Cable/Commando for that reason, but it still has vulnerabilities to snapback and BH's offense is doubly crippled by not being able to DHC for any good damage on Cable without getting anyone shot (which is a big deal) and while Cyclops is better as a stand-alone defensive assist than Commando is, it's still not as good as the combination of Sentinel and Commando. And this all completely overlooks the issue with basically any team that's dialed up to turtle this much: it only works if you're ahead or close. If you fall behind all that badly, your only real hope is if Cable manages to vaporize half the team in one blast, which basically nobody in tournaments is going to allow any more. (Yes, I know about the X versus Justin video. There's a very good reason you've only seen one of those.)

Sent/Cable/BH, in any order, is good for snapback insurance (i.e. people will be discouraged from bothering to snap if you can play all three characters competently), but the assist scheme is sub-optimal for all three characters. Sentinel likes having BH enough that a subpar AAA isn't bad, but Cable would probably rather have the rocket punch from Sentinel while BH would rather have the drones. Also, MSP rolls up this team something awful, and most Sent/Commando teams also give it a great deal of trouble.

BH/Sent/Commando is probably the best all-around team that you can put BH with. It maximizes his offense (DHC that's both very painful and Cable-safe in addition to Commando), his defense (Sent/Commando is probably his favorite two-assist combination in the game), and gives the next character behind him a similarly favorable set of assists as well.

I've used all three of these teams at tournaments over the years, as well as Sent/BH/Cyclops (if you sub Cyclops for Commando, I'm a strong believer that you're best off starting Sentinel and going aggressive early), Cable/BH/Commando (an old anti-Scrub counter of mine that I've since stopped believing in much), and BH/Storm-B/Sentinel-Y (which is ugly, but weirds people out just enough that it sometimes works).

I've tinkered with Guile and Cammy as substitute AAAs, because they both protect against Sentinel better than anything else in the game, and any assist you can do off of Commando you can usually do off of one or the other of these in response to a hit. However, once people get used to the oddball qualities of these I don't think they're as good as Commando or Cyclops.

Sooner or later I've always eventually come back to the conclusion that BH/Sent/Commando is simply the best team with BH on it in the game, though. Once in a while I'll switch to BH/Cable/Cyclops as a change-up, yes, but ultimately I think BH/Sent/Commando just has the fewest number of glaring weaknesses against most of the matchups and situations that you're going to run into at a tournament level. The team can rush, control space, defend, trap, run away, zone, kill you all at once with a DHC, safely get its AAA character out with a DHC to either of the other two characters, or just turtle. The only things BH/Cable/Cyclops does that Watts can't do better are controlling space better while Cable's on point and hitting people with supers off of assists.

[BayouBoy]

yeah I agree with u stilt, about sent/commando being the best assist for bh, but that damn commando sucks donkey dick when it come to playing him on point. I've tried numerous times trying to learn him but I can't. that the reason y I play cyke instead and maybe cammy once in a while. I still play commando occasionly but not too much. I also feel u can set so much more stuff up with cyke, like the bh/cyke reset infinite which does stupid damage. I don't bother with the bh alone infinite. even tho commando will be better for sent, I've just gotten used to playin with cyke with sent and bh. I plan on working on my commando more tho cuz he would be more useful in the long run until I come upon a doom aaa lol.

[StiltMan]

The first thing you have to know when you play Commando on point is to keep moving and jumping so you're not a stationary target and you only have to block one direction. Do that so that you don't get hit, and get Sentinel's drones in there until you've got a bit of space. Then you can start using stuff like st. fierce, Gennity and Sho to protect yourself once you've got the drones back there. Make judicious use of corridors and fire blasts. One thing I've noticed Genghis doing which I don't use myself but which might help you is to call Gennity and drones at the same time at full screen, then take a look at what the rushing opponent does. If they're going over the top, throw a corridor, if they stay close to the ground, throw a fire blast. Either way, the drones and Gennity create enough space that it's fairly safe. Sho is very good for protecting the space in front of you against the rush, I use that one quite a bit.

The main game plan for Commando on point is to play safe and DHC to one of the other two characters. Yes, if you've got him stuck by himself in an endgame you're probably going to lose most of the time, so probably the best pre-endgame situation is to get him on point when Sentinel is low on life but isn't quite actually dead yet, and let Commando come out to spell him a bit while you can still use the assist. DHC with Captain Sword can go to either of the other two characters' horizontal supers relatively safely on block and can combo into them on a hit.

Another thing Commando gives you that Cyclops doesn't is the Sentinel/Commando team super. It amazes me how rarely I see people use this, but I suppose it's due to the fact that not very many people play Cable any more, because that's probably the best use for it. The Sword pulls people down into the HSF and the only way to punish it when blocked is to pushblock above the HSF and shoot Sentinel in the head. However, it's fast enough that if you see Cable super jump and extend the gun arm out, you're going to hit him. It only does maybe 50% damage, but if you're being careful in that fight, 50% damage goes a long way against Cable and it gets it into the back of his mind that being at full screen range does NOT truly mean he's in control, which is probably more important than the actual damage itself. Real tournament example since this IS a tournament-related thread: I've only actually played against Randy Lew in a tournament match once, and I won it in two straight rounds with BH/Sent/Commando against his Team Row. That team super was the major blow against his Cable that took the second game from being just mildly to my advantage after BH took a moderate lead on Mags to being enough out of reach that I was able to just stall out the clock from there. (Yeah... tourney match, Randy Lew v StiltMan. Two games, two time overs. Very shocking... :looney: )

[BayouBoy]

Hey thanks for the advice. I was playing BH/Sent/Capcom and you're right commando is a way better assist for them, i was even using capcom against sent/strider/doom and still wasnt wasnt having too much of a problem then someone came with storm/sent/cable was beating they're ass till for some strange reason i started horribly missing s.lk s.lk+Capcom in HOD. i missed the shit like 4 times, i was pissed. I think it was because of the timing difference in the standing and crouching versions i dont know. But thanks again for the advice.

[BayouBoy]

Hey has anyone ever played BH/Sent/Doom and is that team worth playing? I've been thinking about trying it, i used to play BH/Storm/Doom, any input would help.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

When I play BH/Sent/Doom I play it with extreme patience cause my goal (or possibly the goal ov the team) is to corner trap the opponent with few options in his favor and keep him there with Molecular Shield blockstun + whoever you have on point.

We all know the BS that Sent/BH is capable ov...and I'd much rather start Sent in this team UNLESS you've scouted your opponent and know that starting BH will be an advantage (if this ever happens). Abuse basic chip/zone patterns and just be patient cause you ain't got a reliable AAA to work with and the area above your head is your main issue. Use common sense when it comes to the matchups (Sent/Doom vs Sent/CapCom) and just wait for openings to appear.

Personal strats include mixing up zoning patterns with FP Dark Thunder for those that think to super jump over drones (just watch your timing and the recovery time ov the DT...if they're high enough buffer into HoD...if they're close enough and in the corner Judgment Day their arse!) and df.FP command launcher to catch or trade with Mag/Storm trijumps (I actually do this alot with moderate success...snapbacks also apply here).

If I said anything out ov context or incorrectly Stilt will prolly correct it...but this is basically how I play the team......Doom is another story entirely...

[BayouBoy]

alright thanks yeah this team doesnt have an aaa, thats why ive been hesitate to try it

[joe doe]

Man! good stuff everyone!

I really wanted this thread to grow because when i started playing blackheart back in the day there wasn't much info on other blackheart team that could be effective in a tournament senario. Which by the way i'll give props to STILTMAN for sharing a little bit of his extensive knowledge:wgrin: concerning his tournament Blackheart. Also Stiltman if you wouldn't mind please continue to share some more of your tournament experience when playing blackheart. i'm sure that everyone here appreciates it.

By the way Blackheart(AAA)/SENTINEL(DRONES)/DOOM(ROCKS), it is not a bad team and believe it or not it is very effective on MSP, and Tron based teams. And since the game now a days is ruled by MSP you might want to learn how to play this team. It is not very difficult, but it is a diffrent game than your usual blackheart. On the downside SANTHRAX eats this team for breakfast/lunch/dinner!!! Yeah!, it is that weak against santhrax.:amazed:

[Deth-Scyanyde]

Top 5 (or 7) 'business teams' you'll see in tourneys nowadays would be:

1. MSP (the new team Scrub)
2. Santhrax/MSS
3. Matrix <Storm/Sent/Cyke>
4. SSCable
5. ROW/Scrub

...and this is not just by hold good the teams are but the ratio ov players that pick them in tourneys...at least...IMHO

[joe doe]

yep, those teams are so annoying!!!

it's like every noob that comes into the game suddenly goes and picks MSP to play with. Noone now days wants to play other teams because they think the rest of the 50+ characters in the game are trash. And to tell you the truth we experienced players are the ones that promote that kind of mind set. Well whatever i like playing blackheart i am very good with him and in fact people tends to remember me because of my blackheart than anything else.

[BayouBoy]

Thats why I play BH/Storm/Commando or Cyke as my main team. I'm tired of the same ol teams everywhere you look. BH is a real pain in the ass if you play him right, especially with a ground controlling assist and decent aaa.

[True Grave]

Blackheart/Commando/Doom

That team is mean!
yep, those teams are so annoying!!!

it's like every noob that comes into the game suddenly goes and picks MSP to play with. Noone now days wants to play other teams because they think the rest of the 50+ characters in the game are trash. And to tell you the truth we experienced players are the ones that promote that kind of mind set. Well whatever i like playing blackheart i am very good with him and in fact people tends to remember me because of my blackheart than anything else.
BH is very High-tier, he can be *almost* as good as sent in the right hands, and counters pesky storm/doom players pretty well.

For some reason many players don't think much of Blackheart until they encounter someone who knows how to play him. Then they realize how much of a bastard he is.

[BayouBoy]

whats a good strat for playing bh/storm/doom. My sent isnt has good as it used to be. Will it be just focusing on chip damage or what?

[StiltMan]

I'm not fond of BH/Doom much without an AAA unless it's maybe with Strider or Sentinel in the middle. Even so... yeah, it has serious issues with Sent/Commando and probably loses for free to Sent/Cyclops. It's a team you'd use as a counter for Magneto (and mostly MSS even at that) and absolutely nothing else.

BH/Doom/Commando is very good for BH but ultimately has the same problem Strider/Doom/Commando has: if the first character dies, Doom's in trouble against basically any tournament match-up. I've been tinkering with Strider/Doom/Cyclops lately, which is a little weaker for Strider but much, much better for Doom -- Doom is just about viable with Cyclops if you can block well, although I like him out of the middle better when the matchup has usually slowed down a bit (read: he matches up better with most second characters than he does against Magneto's speed).

I've found myself rethinking a little bit on BH/Sent/Commando as opposed to BH/Sent/Cammy (or maybe even BH/Sent/Guile). I've been on record for a while that I think the former has the fewest glaring weaknesses, but there are a few things to recommend Cammy as a substitute, which has me thinking if I shouldn't try it again. I've actually won a tournament or two with BH/Sent/Cammy as a staple team, where BH/Sent/Commando usually gets in trouble somewhere.

Cammy assist:

- Will usually only hit one character at a time unless they're both in the same place. This is the biggest weakness of it as compared to Commando, especially as a countercall. In tournament play it makes her damn near useless against Team Scrub, which is already one of BH's biggest nightmares. Maybe Guile would help this, I don't know, but I don't think Sentinel uses Guile as well.

- Is invulnerable until it hits a solid object. Solid objects include characters, Doom's rocks, Sentinel's drones, BH's demons, and so on. The assist is actually still good against most of these though... the angle of Cammy is different enough from the demons that there are still a lot of places it'll hit, and Cammy will still hit a Doom that's dropped directly onto you because she'll hit the body before the rocks. The drones are not really an issue outside of HSF, and even then it's still no worse than Commando. It is potentially an issue with Strider's animals.

- Has a longer horizontal range than Commando in the air (if she doesn't hit anything else first) and shorter on the ground, but won't go as high.

- Is much faster on release than Commando. This can be a very big deal against the rush, because it is next to impossible to cross her up or stop attacking on reaction to seeing her come out. Very big deal as an anti-rush AAA

- Can still be inferno/HOD'ed with. The same combos where you hit with a sj. rh into st. short/fwd/AAA/inferno/HOD will work with Cammy just about the same as Commando. I've seen spacing cases where if you are far enough away Cammy will whiff on a small character, but it's rare and can be corrected by spacing it smarter if I remember right.

Now, that basically means that these situations are actually better for you if you've got Cammy for BH:

- Against Sentinel, a lot of flying space gets taken away by Cammy as opposed to Commando. Commando only covers the area over you. With Cammy, about the only places that are safe are straight overhead (and fairly high overhead at that, at an angle where BH super jumping can just go get him), full screen's distance, or behind a human shield. This one is also huge -- the Sentinels that will sit there and hover just beyond BH's sj. poke reach or easy demon hitting reach cannot do this if you have Cammy. They can fly up and drop an assist and then stay overhead, but they have to get there first and even then you can call Cammy and go up to hit him air-to-air anyway; Cammy will take out the assist and BH can take out Sentinel. If Sentinel is hovering further out you can simply call Cammy and blindly inferno/HOD. If they're in Cammy's area, they get hit back into the inferno and nailed, and the airspace outside Cammy's range is not large enough to intelligently evade the inferno/HOD itself.

- Against Cable, if there is no assist in the way, random AHVB's for chip at medium range can be punished cleanly. Much better than Commando here too.

- Against Magneto, your opposition usually pretty much has to slow down a bit or Cammy's going to hit them all day. They have to slow down for Cammy a lot more than Commando -- they can't realistically start an attack and then see her come out and stop in time to avoid being hit. They also can't buzz around over your head with airdashes and figure she'll go the wrong way, because she pretty much always won't.

- Against Storm, if Storm doesn't bring an assist out before attempting to hail and doesn't put you in block stun first, Cammy will go through the hail and hit Storm clean. This one is actually a pretty big deal, because Storm is one of BH's worst matchups because the rush can kill you and the runaway will usually win too. Same rush and airdash defense advantage as with Magneto.

- Against Doom, you don't have to get directly under a Doom throwing photons to stop him, nor get quite as close to j. fierce. If you're too close under him throwing photons, though, you lose that spot, but you can potentially do inferno/armageddon there.

- Against Spiral, st. fierce doesn't protect her against Cammy as it does against Commando. The swords mess up either one about the same.

- Cammy is usually going to be better for you on point whether she's alone or not, although I'd say it's a wash against Magneto because her main advantage on Commando (speed) isn't much of an advantage against Mags. She can attack behind Sentinel's drones to a much greater extent than Commando, though, and she can also do a double-jumping runaway in endgame situations to stall out the clock on a lead, and it's kind of dangerous to go after her.

- Cammy can DHC out a little better in snapbacks because she has an air super, as well as the vertical ground super that's got some invulnerability, but it takes a bit more setup once it's off to safely get to the other two than Captain Sword does.

So now that I've said how wonderful Cammy is, why don't I use her? Two main reasons. The first reason is really at the root of the other one, so I'll say it first: the whole "human shield" element. Commando will double hit a lot of things that Cammy will only hit one of, and that by itself, even for all the other places Cammy will hit stuff where Commando won't, has a strong tendency to make him better in a lot of situations. And this leads to the second reason, which is probably the real one: Cable. Cable is going to be calling AAAs or other assists out and then going up behind them all the freaking time, and while this hurts Commando a little, it makes Cammy damn near useless against him in most cases. History here: Justin Wong, when he first came on the scene, swore by Cammy as his AAA of choice. He first came on with Magneto/Cable/Cammy (which was probably a precursor to Team Row) where Magnus would pressure people closely enough that Cammy's close range power would destroy people, and then went on to Storm/Sent/Cammy with much the same game plan. If people tried to out-rush him, Cammy would blow them away, and he was the first one who really was able to break down the turtles consistently. But then came the Midwest Championships of 2002 and his first encounter with SiN's turtling Team Scrub, and he struggled mightily and horribly. Even he couldn't come up with a viable answer that would make Cammy work against Cable, and after that, Cammy disappeared.

The human shield element might be a reason to use Guile instead of Cammy, because Guile will hit multiple characters and covers an even bigger diagonal area than Cammy does, but he's not as invulnerable and not as fast.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

Blackheart/Commando/Doom

That team is mean!

BH is very High-tier, he can be *almost* as good as sent in the right hands, and counters pesky storm/doom players pretty well.

For some reason many players don't think much of Blackheart until they encounter someone who knows how to play him. Then they realize how much of a bastard he is.

QF-F-E!!!!

whats a good strat for playing bh/storm/doom. My sent isnt has good as it used to be. Will it be just focusing on chip damage or what?

IMO you can play that team 2 ways: Either start off BH and use the BH/Doom trap to build meter and keep the opponent busy while looking for safe ways to DHC into Hail (Armageddon into Hail being the best DHC to use, but semi-difficult to pull off...so you're better off with HoDxxHail). Once Storm comes in just pressure the crap out ov the opponent cause you have 2 very good assists to work with (Storm/BH should theoretically stuff Sent's shit...just watch for CapCom/Cyke AAA, Storm/Doom is just flat out NASTY!!)...

OR

Start out with Storm and wreck shit with Storm/Doom, punishing assists when possible that way when BH comes in he has a much easier time doing what he does best...just make sure you play your cards right and you should come out with the win.

Storm and BH can also be used as batteries for chipping games as well (OMFG MShield!!) and you can practically just be safe the whole match and chip the opponent to death unless they have Cable...but we all know what to do with that bastard xD. Don't start Doom on point unless your Doom is uber beastly...but I wouldn't do so anyways cause the only assist he can safely work with is Typhoon...and it doesn't cover him like Drones does...BH AAA isn't pretty safe and you should only use it when you KNOW the opponent has nowhere to go between Photons and Infernos.

Another option that actually works in BH's favor is switching Storm's assist to Lightning Attack (I tend to do this when I play BH/Storm/Sent) as the LA assist actually sets up Inferno/FP Dark Thunder zone tactics (and if they're really close to you...Armageddon DHC!!). Also remember that LA is invincible on startup and can go thru shit such as the first set ov Sent's HSF drones...setting up pushblock possibilities into InfernoxxHoD/JDay.

[StiltMan]

Anyway, that went on a lot longer than I'd first intended, but you get the idea. I guess at some point I probably don't want to be using BH/Sent/Commando as my team of choice against Team Scrub anyway, so maybe I shouldn't be too harsh on Cammy just because she probably makes that matchup even worse. However, if you're going to actually beat Team Scrub with BH/Sent/AAA it's going to be either because Sentinel starts and keeps Cable off balance with BH assist enough that the AAA is moot, or because BH manages to go over the top and hits Cable with a sj. rh and kills him, and neither situation is affected much by Cammy. The part that is affected by Cammy is anything that goes nearer to the ground. Sentinel flying can make Cable a little more afraid to go up and AHVB him with Cammy down there though, because he doesn't have to get as close before Cammy will hit Cable as opposed to Commando. The other part of it is that if Cable super jumps, Commando can set up a wall to stop him, whereas Cammy only goes up so high, is a little slower to get up there, won't get up there at all if there's an assist down on the ground for her to hit, and has an angle that doesn't cover straight up as well, forcing the point character to go up with Cable to stop him. It can be done, but it takes more work.

So in the end, I am not presently convinced that Cammy is BH's next favorite assist behind Commando. I think she might be the next best one for the combination of BH and Sentinel, although Sent/Cyclops isn't bad at all either. But if you don't completely lose your head and start thinking that Cammy by herself makes you rush proof I think she might have enough advantages in enough rush match-ups that I might try her again. I did use to think that she was unrushable, and about the only thing that's changed that's makes me think otherwise is double snaps. If you avoid the double snap and don't change too much, I think she might be better against rushdown teams. Enough that I might just toy with her some more.

[BayouBoy]

Stilt you be bringing up some good ass points. since looking at some of the post you've made i know my BH has gotten better. The guys I play with cant get past him, i took your advice on commando and ive gotten better with him but hell he still sucks but his aaa it the shit and hurts like hell, and Deth ive layed the team before and i kinda figured it was gonna be a lot of chipping. Thanks guys for your info.

[Sentinel_Cheese]

Blackheart/Commando/Doom

That team is mean!

BH is very High-tier, he can be *almost* as good as sent in the right hands, and counters pesky storm/doom players pretty well.

For some reason many players don't think much of Blackheart until they encounter someone who knows how to play him. Then they realize how much of a bastard he is.

i play that team i love them i played them yesterday i got some nice trap games and some cold ass assist killers with BH and Doom...... Good shit on that team !!!!!!!

[BayouBoy]

i play that team i love them i played them yesterday i got some nice trap games and some cold ass assist killers with BH and Doom...... Good shit on that team !!!!!!!
i've thought of that team but i just dont trust doom being second, i would rather have him as a last character, cuz there arent to many people that can handle him one on one, aaa wise.

[Deathfist]

Stilt, what do you think are the best 10 teams in order for BH? Besides Watts I mean, since Watts has no rivals.

[StiltMan]

In order? Hmmm. Well, keep in mind that this is after yesterday and I'm suddenly all freshly happy on other counts in this game, but here's where I'm at right now.

1. Sent-Y/Cable/BH

Yeah, I'm running partly off the rush of having almost won a tournament with this as the staple team yesterday, but there really aren't very many weaknesses with this team. BH has almost all the tools he has with Watts when he's on point, Sentinel starting with BH in back lets Sentinel abuse BH's assist in every way imaginable, and Cable's presence in the middle cuts off a lot of the weaknesses against Cable. In the tournament yesterday BH's main action on point (when the team was successful) was to come out of the back as a closer when I had the lead against a lone opposing character like Storm or Psylocke with time running out. Whatever else BH is or isn't good at, he is Mariano Rivera and Jonathan Papelbon wrapped up in one nightmare package with dreadlocks on top in this role, and it's one he's much more free to play when he hasn't had much point responsibility earlier in the game. Between that and the more liberal use of his assist by the other two early on, particularly by Sentinel starting out, this team is a lot more vicious than I used to think. Sentinel spamming laser beams and inferno assists from full screen on Magneto/Storm teams and flying back to put the frying pan on them when they go over the top is almost unfair, Cable actually does more damage as a countercall and kicks characters off the screen longer in most cases than Commando, and Sent/BH uncombos will absolutely RUIN Psylocke.

1-A. BH/Sent/Commando (or Cammy, or Guile)

Depending on whether you'd rather have BH with Sent/Commando or Sent with Cable/BH as an assist scheme, Watts is still arguably a better anti-rush specialist, and playing the team in Sent/BH/Commando order is probably better than Sent/Cable/BH against Santhrax. The only time I used Watts in the tournament yesterday was in this latter role. Fierce dark thunder XX HOD is an absolutely awesome tool against Sentinel in the midgame in this fight, although it's also usable with Sent/Cable/BH too.

It is possible that I will eventually swap these two back around, but Sent having freer use of BH's assist early on because he has Cable as another point option is more powerful than you'd think, and Watts falls prey to snapback tactics a lot more than I'd like, while people tend to respect my BH enough that they don't see a real reason to try snapping Sentinel out. However, Watts is probably still a bit better against Santhrax overall, which is not going to be a terribly rare matchup.

3. BH/Cable/Cyclops

It tends to be a bit of a slippery slope team in both directions. If you get ahead, you'll win by lots. If you fall behind, you've got no prayer.

4. Cable/BH/Commando

I used to use this team as a counter against Team Scrub back in the NW. When my Cable was in practice I used to get OCVs regularly in that matchup with it, but it's a team you definitely better have nerves of steel and a very good Cable to play. If you do, I find that people either tend to know how to fight this team (regardless of what they're using) or they don't. This team is absolutely better using Cable in front, whereas with Cyclops it's better to start BH most times; as a result I list them as different teams because they're not nearly as similar in the way they play as you'd think.

5. BH/Doom/Commando (maybe Cyclops instead of Commando)

Deceptively scary zone-and-chip team. If I could use Doom better with Commando -- at least well enough to hold his own with a lead -- I would absolutely use this team in tournaments. Find me a way for Doom to defend himself adequately against the likes of Storm/Sentinel and Sentinel/Commando in later games and I would move it ahead of both Cable/AAA variants. BH with Doom and Commando behind him is just that disgusting. Commando lets BH zone people into the corner by keeping people from going over the top of him, and once he gets them there and puts Doom's rocks to them with inferno/HOD, it does about twice as much chip damage as Strider/Doom per meter. I could be talked into believing that Cyclops is better for the team going forward after BH is off point, but I still think Commando is better overall.

The order below here is about the cut-off of what I'd actually ever consider using in tournaments myself. Some of the Storm teams might deserve more credit than I'm giving them, and the rest of this order might not be too exact.

6. BH/Storm/Sentinel

I haven't yet figured out a good assist scheme for this team that makes me happy with it, and it probably doesn't help that my Storm leaves a lot to be desired. I don't think it would matter much against Sentinel/Commando though.

7. BH/Cable/Doom

Meter conflicts between BH and Cable, but it works as a BH/Doom/Commando variant where you've got Cable in the middle instead. It's a lot less powerful for BH in the end though, and Cable/Doom isn't nearly what it used to be -- i.e. the team's a bit less than the sum of its parts. However, it works well enough that it merits mention.

8. BH/Strider/Doom

Has Cyclops issues, but BH is a really good assist for Strider and doesn't need the meter with Doom around. May have to take to the air more against rush teams.


9. BH/Storm/Cyclops

Ghetto and ugly, but Storm/BH is better than you'd think. Both of them get enough mileage out of Cyclops and BH/Storm DHCs are damaging enough that it's not entirely useless.

10. Magneto/BH/Cyclops (or Sonson)

Okay, this team is gross, yes, but I've seen two different Seattle players get surprising mileage out of it. Sonson is a better AAA for BH and Magneto than you'd think, and you can dig up footage of Sean "PsiANyd" Graham in Seattle using that.

I stayed away from BH/Sent/Tron because I'm just not at all sold on that team. Tron is horrible for trying to combo with BH anywhere other than with the opponent's feet rooted to the ground. It could theoretically be a major pain with j. fierce demons in ways similar to Preppy's mega busters with Mega Man, but not sold on that team at all. It's Sentinel's team all the way, and even a guy like Jaminis (who uses it a lot) visibly wilts after Sentinel is gone.

[Deathfist]

Where would Sentinel, Blackheart, Doom in it's best order rank in all of this?

Nearly winning a tourney with the first team? WOW!!!. Was it recorded? Will we get to see the matches?

[StiltMan]

Sent/Doom/BH in various orders was actually my very first Sent/BH team in the early days. Just as I have a certain reluctance to play Magneto/Storm now, I did with Cable back then, and Sent/Doom/BH was kind of "my" way of doing things. However, I eventually learned painfully that basically any one of Spiral, Cable, or Sentinel just utterly murder the team. Once Spiral gets going the team literally has no way of really stopping her or even slowing her down other than pushblocking and praying. The team has a horrible time chasing down Cable and did even then, and it's that much worse trying to defend against a good Sentinel. I also don't remember if Mag/BH/Cyclops or BH/Cable/Cyclops in 3pwood's hands showed up or not before I abandoned the team, but it'd be a horrible matchup there too.

I used Sent/Cable/BH as Plan A throughout the tournament, yes. Somebody was there with a mini camera, so I don't know if the videos will go up or not. I don't know when the camera guy left, he may have gotten only the winners' bracket match against Crizzle and might've gotten the one against tharimrattler. I'm not sure if he was still around by the losers' final with Crizzle. I went away from Sent/Cable/BH more against Tinh after the first game of the winners' final, because Tinh's a Santhrax-centric player, so I used more Scrub and a little Watts against him as counterteams. On the other hand, if they _did_ get those on tape then you'll see plenty of my Cable too. I was focused enough on the games by that point that I wasn't even sure if the guy with the camera stayed throughout. Would be neat if they did get those, because they were pretty good matches.

[jaded]

nice job, Stilt.

The thing I noticed about that team is that your Cable really has to be on point to overcome teams with AAA. But yea, the number of traps on that team is pretty sick (Sent/Bh-b, cable/bh-b, cable/sent-g, and bh/cable-b makes a ghetto bh/cyc-b) and pretty damn annoying.

Your cable must be pretty good.

[Khiempossible]

on the mags/BH/cyke team. there's an OG player from MTL canada that basically destroyed all the competition back in teh day. He's pretty much retired at this point. But check out Samnang.

[StiltMan]

Yeah, my Cable's pretty good when I've actually got it in practice. The team does take a lot of knowledge about how to play all three characters, but if you've got that you're in pretty good shape. About the only top tier matchup I'm all that nervous about having Cable/Sentinel/BH up against is maybe Sent/Commando. That one I'll probably make a point of using BH on point against, once I do that there's not much reason any more to use Watts as a counterteam.

I watched a few of Samnang's matches from the last couple or three years on Youtube. I'm not sure how anybody has BH's assist on a team and then just... doesn't use it. In fact, both Magneto and BH's assists can be of considerable value to each other. I mean, really... who's going to run away from Magneto, ever, with BH's assist behind him? And who's going to even come close to BH with Magneto's assist behind him? I just... don't get it. Magneto's assist would set up inferno/HOD chip very well (it would probably be timed very nicely to cover the gap between blocked inferno and blocked HOD, and would push them back into the best areas where the most demons come out), and BH's assist could probably relatively easily be comboed off of air-to-air, given that I fairly regularly air combo with Sentinel off of it, who's got way less air mobility than Magneto does. But I literally never saw him call Magneto with BH on point, and the only time he called BH with Mags on point was in a corner unmashable tempest combo. I mean, I don't think Mag/BH/Cyclops is the new MSP or anything, but... so much wasted potential.

[Backfire]

Thats why I play BH/Storm/Commando or Cyke as my main team. I'm tired of the same ol teams everywhere you look. BH is a real pain in the ass if you play him right, especially with a ground controlling assist and decent aaa.

yea i said also on the first page i believe that thats pretty much the team i choose too, same with the possibly cyke of commando but i find myself usin commando more often then cyke for some reasons and also pends on who u face as well. but they are a pain to fight against long as u know how to usem

[joe doe]

hey guys, sorry i have been MIA for a while now. Anyway, i going to admit that i am a big sell out!!! I have been preaching for several years now, how much i hated magneto. Then now days i am using that bastard every time i play.

That aside, i am getting used to a murderous team MAgs/Blackheart/Sentinel. If people do not see the potential this team has just by looking at them, then stop playing the game!!!( i'am playing..LOL) But, seriously i am becoming an infinite crazy bastard, and i don't care anymore about beating people using skill and a lot of wit.

[Deathfist]

Stilt, why don't you fiddle with Mags, BH, Cyc and explore some of that lost potential. He was extremely rusty when you saw those matches, and a far cry from when he gave Justin Wong a scare at the Midwest Championships. [If Justin didn't complain about the sticks and have Samnang decide to replay the match Justin just lost, Samnang would have won...]

Oh, and BTW, that unmashable tempest that he did with the BH assist? That's mid-screen as well as corners. There are other things he does...

Tempest, wait, JD to change characters,
Combo, hypergrav, Tempest, Immediate DHC for Judgement day super [almost if not impossible to mash out, used as a kind of frame cancel...]

Here is something I like; you can continue the combo into a Tempest XX Armageddon and use the shards to guarantee the Armageddon hits. It will almost always kill the character.

[StiltMan]

Wait, you're suggesting I should use Mag/BH/Cyclops? Magneto's probably about the only good character I can't play. I mean, just can't play, outside of a few garbage combos and general things, but my Magneto seriously is really, really bad and not fit for tournaments against a competent opponent and probably never will be. I'm just... gonna forget you suggested that. :sweat:

[Deathfist]

Wait, you're suggesting I should use Mag/BH/Cyclops? Magneto's probably about the only good character I can't play. I mean, just can't play, outside of a few garbage combos and general things, but my Magneto seriously is really, really bad and not fit for tournaments against a competent opponent and probably never will be. I'm just... gonna forget you suggested that. :sweat:

I didn't necessarily mean take it out to a tournament and try it there. In your case [and to a lesser degree mine too] that would be stupid. I mean testing it in casuals, and practice mode to see what you can find that might be fun to play with, and useful for yourself and everyone else.

You already have the brutal combo that I showed you, so that works as a start.

If you want to get a better Magneto, search the other forums. Start with learning the Launch, hp, ad df hp, hk, dlk, dhk combo, and the Rom. Once mastered, learn every unmashable assist combo. Then start tacking them onto the ends of your ROM infinite. My favorite of all, is double snap baits, and getting into the habit of just doing combos that can work on both characters so you can double snap. Then start working on basic resets. Then master guard breaking. Once you're there, you'll probably be good enough to be tournament worthy. You have enough good Magnetos around, so even if what I told you was not enough to help you, what they have to say being in where you are, will be.

My Magneto is horrible too, but that doesn't stop me from fiddling with him. That only stops me from playing him in any serious matches. Sooner or later rest assured, I WILL use him regularly; possibly even in tourneys. But right now, I have to phase in Sentinel, and phase out BH SLIGHTLY. Not fully, just slightly. I like BH too much to abandon him like I did to Amingo, Megaman, Jin, and to a lesser degree, Hulk.

[StiltMan]

Okay, I'm honestly at a loss to explain this, but ultimately I don't even really think it's worth the effort to learn how to play Magneto at that level. There just isn't enough he does that other characters can't do better that it's worth it to me. Storm/Sentinel can kill someone from anywhere on the screen better. Strider is harder to escape from and can snap off of any random orbs hit just as well if I want to (and if I play a kill-the-assists game and save the meter for something besides nonstop chip damage, it's potentially just as team ruining). And one of these days I'm going to need an Iron Man player to explain to me why, since Iron Man can air infinite into ground infinite just about as well as Magneto can, more Iron Man players don't snap out for a critical assist character and kill that guy in the same way Magneto does, instead of trying to kill the point characters in selected order. I'd think Iron Man would be a lot more dangerous if people would do that.

Technically, Magneto has the best throws in the game, but the only thing that really, truly sets him apart is the snapback tactics. If you took the snapback alone out of the game, I am not convinced that Magneto is still a top eight character with what else he'd have left. Even with the snapback, any character that can punish attempts to get in well enough and just not get hit has a non-ridiculous chance of beating him. I mean, really... MegaMan/Tron? "Preppy vs See Jay, don't watch this"??? Is a good Sentinel going to lose to that, ever? A good Cable? A good Strider? Storm if she doesn't have Sentinel behind her, maybe, but with the DHC I seriously doubt it.

And that's basically it. You have to have a truly transcendent Magneto before this stops happening to you, and even then all they have to do is get a better character to do it to you with (i.e. Storm/Sent). The execution bar to really have a well-rounded Magneto is just ridiculously high, and even then, it's simply all about finding more ways to be dependent on actually landing a hit. In other words, he's a faster Iron Man with a better snapback and arguably better guard break where you have to work eight times as hard just to get parity at a tournament level, and even then any decent Santhrax is still going to run away from you for fun. No thank you. :confused:

[Deathfist]

Okay, I'm honestly at a loss to explain this, but ultimately I don't even really think it's worth the effort to learn how to play Magneto at that level. There just isn't enough he does that other characters can't do better that it's worth it to me. Storm/Sentinel can kill someone from anywhere on the screen better. Strider is harder to escape from and can snap off of any random orbs hit just as well if I want to (and if I play a kill-the-assists game and save the meter for something besides nonstop chip damage, it's potentially just as team ruining). And one of these days I'm going to need an Iron Man player to explain to me why, since Iron Man can air infinite into ground infinite just about as well as Magneto can, more Iron Man players don't snap out for a critical assist character and kill that guy in the same way Magneto does, instead of trying to kill the point characters in selected order. I'd think Iron Man would be a lot more dangerous if people would do that.
I agree. Those things are something I also want to ask about people's Ironman myself.


Technically, Magneto has the best throws in the game, but the only thing that really, truly sets him apart is the snapback tactics. If you took the snapback alone out of the game, I am not convinced that Magneto is still a top eight character with what else he'd have left. Even with the snapback, any character that can punish attempts to get in well enough and just not get hit has a non-ridiculous chance of beating him. I mean, really... MegaMan/Tron? "Preppy vs See Jay, don't watch this"???
Ha Ha Ha, I remember that. Too funny. I recently did something similar in casuals with Megaman, Sentinel, Capcom to a Santhrax player once. When he got close, I air blocked. If I was going to eat a typhoon, I'd block. Otherwise, I'd just stay on my half of the screen, and do jumping hp all day. Abort the Hailstorms and do 1/7 damage per shot each time without worries. My drones would stop his, they'd collide halfway across the screen meaning that Storm couldn't get close enough on the ground to combo, and my buster shots would get through for free to abort the Hail. WAY too funny.
Is a good Sentinel going to lose to that, ever? A good Cable? A good Strider?
Not sure. Strongly doubt it. Storm if she doesn't have Sentinel behind her, maybe, but with the DHC I seriously doubt it.

And that's basically it. You have to have a truly transcendent Magneto before this stops happening to you, and even then all they have to do is get a better character to do it to you with (i.e. Storm/Sent). The execution bar to really have a well-rounded Magneto is just ridiculously high, and even then, it's simply all about finding more ways to be dependent on actually landing a hit. In other words, he's a faster Iron Man with a better snapback and arguably better guard break where you have to work eight times as hard just to get parity at a tournament level, and even then any decent Santhrax is still going to run away from you for fun. No thank you. :confused:

Makes sense. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't try, but to each his own.

Imagine if you also HAD a good Magneto to go along with all your other characters. Blackheart, Storm, Strider, Sentinel, Doom, and these are just the characters I'm sure you're good with. The more characters you're capable of using, the more fun the game gets.

You know what happens with Blackheart? The fact that Blackheart is so hard to rush down sometimes leads to Blackheart deliberately deviating from standard protocol and singlehandedly annihilating an entire team. I've actually done this before a couple times. I'm sure you have too. This is what happens when your opponent's rushdown capabilities get destroyed without you losing yours.

Has your Blackheart ever wound up perfecting someone? That is really, really funny.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, I'm getting back on topic. Sort of.

1]Was the tournament recorded that had all your rapes with Sentinel, BH, Cable?
-If so, do you know when the vids will be up
2]What is the best way In your opinion to use the Sentinel, BH, Cable
-Best strategies that you're willing to share.
3]What are your favorite Sent-BH uncombo tactics.
-I'm new to this, but I did this one I invented once in a tournament to someone's Capcom assist killing it from full health.
-Call BH, rocketpunch, hp, rocketpunch, HSF, dlk, Call BH, rocketpunch, standing hp, rocketpunch.
-I need a safer one.

Note: If there is anything too spicy, or that you want to keep secret that I asked for, PM me with it and I'll keep it secret.

[StiltMan]

Well, they evidently only got a couple or three of the full matches from the 4/26 Fairfield tourney. The ones with tharimrattler and Crizzle from the winners' bracket are up. It does not appear that they got the losers' final with Crizzle on tape, which is a little disappointing to me, because I played better, didn't lose any games to double snap or win any by random tag, and Crizzle used three different teams.

Stilt (W Sent/Cable/BH) v tharimrattler (Storm/Sent/Colossus) game 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6frzLsXRN14
Stilt (W Sent/Cable/BH) v tharimrattler (Storm/Sent/Colossus) game 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAXGaUpyStI

Crizzle (W MSP) v Stilt (BH/Sent/Cable) game 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtGJv_cH2Wg
Crizzle (MSP) v Stilt (W Sent/Cable/BH) game 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l-caaZFngI
Crizzle (MSP) v Stilt (W Sent/Cable/BH) game 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyohVRgM3ww

[nuB4life]

Sentinel looked solid, cable was alright, blackheart was super jumping way too much without securing the ground against quick characters like psylocke.

[joe doe]

sitlt, those were some very good matches. Also the matches were very informatives on the do's and don't of blackheart gameplay. However i am still not completly sold on BH/sentinel/cable. You see were i play at 90% of the players are MSP players, so what happend to you on the second match with Crizzle often happend to me when i played that team.

I do believe that the future Blackheart Metagame will be in a three playable character format. Meaning that the three characters are meant to be played instead of playing two character and the third is the designated assisst.

That said, here are three team tourney ready that are worthy to look at and spend your time on:

1.- Blackheart/cable/sentinel- A good all around team making a comback, but still has mayor
issues with MSP. So it all depends where you play at, are there
a lot of MSp or santhrax, etc. By the way Cable should always
be last in this team.

2.-Blackheart/storm/sentinel- An up-and-coming team, it is still relatively new to the scene but
an old concept. Basikcally is your old santhrax Gameplay except
now Blackheart is the new capcom. It solve the snap out
problem, however you loose some of the old santhrax speed.
But you gain a lot of flexibility and is very fun!!

3.- Ironman/Blackheart/cable- An insane team!! Ironman is simply crasy with blackheart as an
assisst. You also get the infinite ability from ironman with the
help of cable. And you also have Cable's Counter AHVB. This
team is simply nuts!! But it is weak to MSP.

[StiltMan]

Well, here's my take on some of this.

While it is generally a good idea not to get too super-jump happy with BH, to some degree you can't really just stay to the ground either. There isn't enough firepower in just j. fierce, and that's ultimately your best low altitude defense. Mixing in some demons and pokes out of the air and making sure that you don't leave a purely low altitude target is still a good idea, as long as you keep unpredictable enough about how you come back down to the ground. Crizzle is a fantastic player (Evo West final 8) so the fact that I manage not to get hit isn't because I'm against sucky opposition in that video.

I don't think BH in the middle on Sent/Cable/BH is a good idea at all. Ultimately, this just completely changes the team chemistry in so many ways, almost all of which are bad. You wind up calling BH a lot more conservatively because he's your second character (or you just get him hurt a lot doing so, because there's very few ways to really protect him that don't involve burning meter), which forces you into more of a lockdown mode when you use him at all... which ultimately just doesn't do you a whole lot of good. When you have more freedom to call him, as I did in the videos, this is a very good thing, Sentinel becomes a lot more powerful. The other element is, when you're calling BH less you also cripple a lot of your zoning power, and since Cable is in back you wind up using him a lot more... which just isn't enough to keep even a mediocre MSP that's aggressive enough if they know the angles. You're better off making them have to think about BH in the back of their mind as much as possible, which in turn can get them off their game badly. At some point, BH is just the better assist character for Sentinel, so put him in a position on the team where you can use him.

The other part is simply a matter of, if the worst does happen and you do wind up with Sentinel dead, would you rather have Cable/BH or BH/Cable left? From my own experience, I'd rather have Cable/BH. BH/Cable doesn't have nearly enough power to really handle the rest of the game by itself, whereas for all its vulnerabilities, Cable/BH can still get you back into the game against an overaggressive player. Game 3 against Crizzle, this basically came out. Using BH more liberally while Sentinel was on point got Storm hurt a bunch before Sentinel ultimately died, and while it's true that I won this game in large part due to Crizzle's accidental tag, Sentinel's damage to Storm prior to his dead and the fact that it was Cable and not BH on point at the time were the difference between this being merely a major hiccup and being a fatal, team-wrecking disaster.

So for all these reasons, I'm completely sold that Sent/Cable/BH is the best order to start Sentinel with. If you get Cable/BH rolled up anyway, so be it, but BH/Cable isn't going to do that much better and won't be able to exploit comeback opportunities even a third as well as Cable would on point. The options and possibilities are just better in every way.

I've played with BH/Storm/Sentinel and haven't been able to find any way there I like this team against Sent/Commando. That's a common enough matchup that I'm just... eh on this team.

[lovepig78]

any thoughts on spiral/BH/sonson
i play this and have seen vidness play this.
thoughts?

[joe doe]

stilt, i am going to give that team another try, maybe now things will be a little better. But if anything i always been godd with BH/cable/Capcom or cyclops. Those two are my bread and butter teams, so if things start to go wrong i ususally rely on those two teams. Anyways, those were some good points you made earlier

[joe doe]

well there was a tourney in CF NY, yesterday. MAn talk about heavy hitters, Smoothviper, Xcutioner, Infinite, among others. So yeah it was the shit! However i was to late to register since i didn't know about the tourney. But i played afainst all f the big guns, and i must say that i didn't do so bad. One thing thought Sentinel/cable/BH, didn't do well at all even when i got myh shit together apparently their kung fu is stronger. However bh/cable/capcom did kick ass!!!!!

by the way is any of you blackheart players near NY, if so i invite you to come to the next tourney, it'll be in two weeks.

[nuB4life]

yeah I take back what I said stilt. At times the SJing can really throw an opponent off if they're not used to keeping up with BHs quick jump animations and what not. You just have to make sure that you've got the defense to back it up.

On another note, I started looking at all the black heart vids that I could find online and realized that cataloging the stuff from zachd's website is going to take way too long since it seems like the vids take forever to download.

I did however look on youtube since the vids are quicker to view, and I'm just curious if anyone knows who this guy that calls himself Demon Overdose is?? He's doing stuff with blackheart that I never would have thought of plus he's a pretty solid player. I'm going to post a link to his youtube channel in the BH infinites page after this post cuz he's got a couple of variations on the infinite that I've never seen b4.

[joe doe]

guys, why don't we list the team we use in tournament play like for example:

1.- BH/CABLE/CAPCOM or CYCLOPS or TRON B.
2.- BH/CABLE/SENTINEL (VERY FEW TIMES)

AND, THAT IS IT! My main game is BH/CABLE the third characters is usually a counter as to what my opponent bring to the table. Like if my opponent plays MSP i play BH/CABLE/TRON B.
it doesn't sound right but it works like a charm against MSP.

If my oponenet plays santhrax i play BH/CABLE/CAPCOM, and it does very well against it. Or IF my opponent Plays clockwork I got him with BH/CABLE/CYCLOPS and that is the end of that.

so in a way i have a counter for everything they throw at me.

[StiltMan]

My whole tournament and non-quite tournament roster is full of non-conventional stuff. This is probably my lineup at the moment:

1. Sentinel/Cable/BH
2. Sentinel/Cable-A/Cyclops
2-A. Sentinel/Cable-A/Commando
4. Sentinel/BH/Commando
4-A. Sentinel/BH/Cyclops
6. Strider/Sentinel/Commando

Yes, that's right, I'm using Cable-A instead of Cable-B if I have Commando or Cyclops already there for AAAs. Nobody who's any good gets hit with counter-AHVB any more, so I'd rather give Sentinel a beam assist to work with. I might be convinced eventually to go back to Sent/BH/Commando or Sent/BH/Cyclops in front of Sent/Cable/BH, but I'm not there right now. The team takes a very good Cable who won't panic when you have to rely on yourself without an AAA, but I think it's still enough better with Cable available on point that I'd like him around. If you need an AAA before you want to play Cable, don't try this team at home. About the only fight I don't like Cable on point with this team against is maybe Sent/Commando, but I'm not yet sold that I don't just need to psimitar more often with Cable on point.

And yes, that's also right, I'm playing Strider without Doom and liking it. I honestly have come to think that Doom is dead weight enough on point that even Strider teams are worse with him than they are without him now.

[BlackHeartKing]

1) Team Watts (almost all I'll pick cuz I'm faithful) =P
2) BH/Cab/Doom (Still working on this one. I don't use Cable enough to be decent in my eyes with him)
3) BH/Cab/Cyc or Cap (when I'm off my game against a good santhrax user)
4) BH/Dan/Cyc (yes I'll actually pick this team if I know my opponent is not that good. it's just TOO FUN) :blush:

P.S. Stilt you've got some unconventional methods but I like it. Think outside of the box and keep it interesting :tup:

[joe doe]

man, what a night i was there yesterday at CF, and let me tell you my game was tight!!!!
I ususally do not get away with a lot, but i was doing counter ahbv, i was chasing magnetos with cable with no AAA backing him up. Man, waht a night, oh! and the people that i was playing were not scrubs. in fact some were participants of last year evolution.

By the way my BH/cable/capcom is getting way better, and i thought that i had max out all the things that i could do
with this team. Just to let you know when you have things figured out things somehow always change
for the better or worse.

Also, stiltman how do you normally deal with MSP, cause in casual they screw up a lot and i am able to punish them for it
but in tournament play MSP always, simply go for the infinite all day!!! I pick up tron B. and it stops the scrubs MSP, but the real good ones just wipe up the floor with me.

[joe doe]

:wonder: so the stiltman thread came back to the blackheart thread, that's good. there is a lot of info there for noobs to look at and there is also combos, etc...

anyway, i want to remind everyone that there is a tournament on saturday 6/7/08in China Town fair in New York. If there is any blackheart player within the tri-state area or near NY please attend this tournament. Cause no offense to anyone in this thread, but a lot of blackheart players out there get away with so much. And the main reason for that is because the level of competition they are facing.

So come to CF in new york, and if you are not going to participate at least watch then you'll know in what level you guys are at.

On a lighter note Justin Wong was at CF today, he doesn't play as much as he used to but every now and then he comes by and play MVC2. I got to play him a couple of times, the first time i almost got him but i F**** up and he got me!! The second time he went on the offensive right from the get go and well it was over before i could say F****, but at least i wasn't perfeted on!!!:rofl:

[lovepig78]

...this guy that calls himself Demon Overdose is??...

^^^thats the blackheartking baby, he posted above me

my tourny teams
1) BH/cable/cyclops(and i can play with cyclpos)
2) BH/sent/ capcom or cyc(but my sent needs more work)
3)spiral/BH/AAA-capcom,cyc,sonson (depends who im playing)
and
4)mag/BH/cyc (if im feeling balls to the wall)

[BlackHeartKing]

I have officially decided to add this to my tourney list.

*BH/IM/Sent* this was always a team I just messed around with but I'm starting to realize just how effective it is ^_^

oh yeah and sorry Nub4life, I didn't see your post. blackheartking is an old srk name but I go by demon overdose if not by my real name otherwise. If you want, IM me sometime and I'll give you the run down on all I know with BH. I don't mind sharing the knowledge and tricks I know with those that want to know it.

[joe doe]

those who don't know there has been a series of tournaments in NYC lately for about the last two months. I have gone to the last three, however i have been paired with monsters like executioner, erick "smoothvyper", etc. right off the bat so i haven't really done well. But i will share just one advice that i myself should have listen to. Which also goes with what i was saying about playing good competition than your normal scrub.

It was the first game against Erick when i was rushing him down, i was feeling good too since i kept air-dashing past his capcom. So i finally got both his capcom and cable into a HOD. at the begining of the super i was happy until i remembered who the hell i was playing against. Surely enough, he calmly waited until blackheart did his automatic ground dash after HOD. Then he killed blackheart, and then killed the rest of the team in seconds. Just one mistake, blew the game for me. But i should have known you never do a HOD on cable, it's practically sucide.

That is why you should always go to where the best play at. I played so many crappy players that simply made me think that i was just too good to get caught in those simple things. Well my head got too big and erick shrunk it.

By the way i am going to start playing magneto, simply because i am tired of being on the defensive. I am going to start using Magneto/Blackheart/Sentinel, if it doesn't work i'll probably drop blackheart for some time.

I'll probably drop blackheart because of some guy that i recently found out that he goes by remix. I used to beat him alot back in the day (few years back), so after kissing sanford, Jwong, and Eric ass he got better. Now his head is really big cause he can do an infinite with magneto. So i'll pick up magneto just to shove it down his throat that anyone can be good if the best spoon feed you all their know-how. Cause some of us actually had to learn our own skills, Besides Magneto shouldn't be that hard. At least is nont as hard as trying to play blackheart against the BIG 4.

[Remix1213]

I'll probably drop blackheart because of some guy that i recently found out that he goes by remix. I used to beat him alot back in the day (few years back), so after kissing sanford, Jwong, and Eric ass he got better. Now his head is really big cause he can do an infinite with magneto. So i'll pick up magneto just to shove it down his throat that anyone can be good if the best spoon feed you all their know-how. Cause some of us actually had to learn our own skills, Besides Magneto shouldn't be that hard. At least is nont as hard as trying to play blackheart against the BIG 4.

Goodluck beating that asshole Remix. LMAO :rofl:

[joe doe]

I had a feeling you read the blackheart threads.

As if i would ever drop blackheart, not in your or anyones life time!! And why the hell would i ever play Magneto that cheap bitch.

But now that i got your attention lay off the juice buddy, you are always too hyped in the arcade. Remember we ARE GROWN UPS, NOT KIDS!!! Well maybe i am the grown up. So stop all the fucking bullshit, i like playing the game but the game is not my life, it's just for FUN.

I know that a few years back you sucked ass, now that your a little better, enjoy the game. I mean don't let all that ass kissing, countless hours in front of the TV practicing your infinites go to waste. So I'll advice you once again, STOP ALL YOUR FUCKING BULLSHIT, i know that we don't see eye to eye, and that is why i avoid your sorry ass. So do me the big fucking favor and do the same.

[lovepig78]

I had a feeling you read the blackheart threads.

As if i would ever drop blackheart, not in your or anyones life time!! And why the hell would i ever play Magneto that cheap bitch.

But now that i got your attention lay off the juice buddy, you are always too hyped in the arcade. Remember we ARE GROWN UPS, NOT KIDS!!! Well maybe i am the grown up. So stop all the fucking bullshit, i like playing the game but the game is not my life, it's just for FUN.

I know that a few years back you sucked ass, now that your a little better, enjoy the game. I mean don't let all that ass kissing, countless hours in front of the TV practicing your infinites go to waste. So I'll advice you once again, STOP ALL YOUR FUCKING BULLSHIT, i know that we don't see eye to eye, and that is why i avoid your sorry ass. So do me the big fucking favor and do the same.


wHy So SeRiOus???

[Remix1213]

I had a feeling you read the blackheart threads.

As if i would ever drop blackheart, not in your or anyones life time!! And why the hell would i ever play Magneto that cheap bitch.

But now that i got your attention lay off the juice buddy, you are always too hyped in the arcade. Remember we ARE GROWN UPS, NOT KIDS!!! Well maybe i am the grown up. So stop all the fucking bullshit, i like playing the game but the game is not my life, it's just for FUN.

I know that a few years back you sucked ass, now that your a little better, enjoy the game. I mean don't let all that ass kissing, countless hours in front of the TV practicing your infinites go to waste. So I'll advice you once again, STOP ALL YOUR FUCKING BULLSHIT, i know that we don't see eye to eye, and that is why i avoid your sorry ass. So do me the big fucking favor and do the same.

I dont look at the bleakheart thread lol (i dont use him) my boy pointed this out to me and I find this to be really funny, to be honest i have nothing against you i just find blackheart getting raped funny thats all... Now as much hating as you wanna do and excuses you wanna make its not my fault it took you 5 years to see that blackheart is ass. Now you talk about stop all the bullshit? I dont even talk to yet even egknowledge you, so what are you talking about.

wHy So SeRiOus???

Took the words right outta my mouth...

[Khiempossible]

lol@this thread

especially at the nub who doesn't know that cable punishes HOD on hit.

[joe doe]

Lovepig mybad man!
i don't get pissed off often it's just that that guy the minute i get to CF is always trying to find some way to ridicule me. which is Funny since i really don't give a damn what some punk says to me.

By the way if you didn't EGknowledge me:confused:, then why you are saying it took me 5 years to see that blackheart is ass?? Quite frankly i just remembered who you where after i was trying to figure out as to why some punk in the arcade is trying to disrespect me. Then it came to me since your face seemed familiar, but whatever.

It seems that you get the point, i really don't care whoever you are or whatever you into, but i would greatly appreciate if you keep the comments to yourself when i play at CF.

Let me remind you that i am a GROWN MAN!! not a fucking kid. I mean :confused:who goes to a god damn arcade to drink and smoke weed. Sheesh i did that years ago!!, but not in an arcade. Where everyone is looking at you get high!!! You kids now-a-days need people to school you.

by the way KHiempossible, yeah i know that is why i wrote that, since you are a NUB trying To learn how to play Blackheart. Come by CF so i could teach you a thing or two.

But you are right that was a very Noobish move of mine, But since people rarely caught me with it i got confident that i wouldn't get caught. But whatever is a game not a life-style.

[Remix1213]

Lovepig mybad man!
i don't get pissed off often it's just that that guy the minute i get to CF is always trying to find some way to ridicule me. which is Funny since i really don't give a damn what some punk says to me.

By the way if you didn't EGknowledge me:confused:, then why you are saying it took me 5 years to see that blackheart is ass?? Quite frankly i just remembered who you where after i was trying to figure out as to why some punk in the arcade is trying to disrespect me. Then it came to me since your face seemed familiar, but whatever.

It seems that you get the point, i really don't care whoever you are or whatever you into, but i would greatly appreciate if you keep the comments to yourself when i play at CF.

Let me remind you that i am a GROWN MAN!! not a fucking kid. I mean :confused:who goes to a god damn arcade to drink and smoke weed. Sheesh i did that years ago!!, but not in an arcade. Where everyone is looking at you get high!!! You kids now-a-days need people to school you.

by the way KHiempossible, yeah i know that is why i wrote that, since you are a NUB trying To learn how to play Blackheart. Come by CF so i could teach you a thing or two.

But you are right that was a very Noobish move of mine, But since people rarely caught me with it i got confident that i wouldn't get caught. But whatever is a game not a life-style.


If your a grown man why are you still using the word nub or noob whatever you wanna call it. I have a 12 year old cousin that uses that word too lol. What i do in my spare time is none of your concern, so i spark a blunt here and there you dont like it? tough shit. You did that years ago right? Well guess what im not 30+ years old like you, i have my youth and imma enjoy it the way i see fit. You call other ppl "noobs" lol wit Blackheart mean while you are doin shit i saw when i first came to cf. How about alittle creativity with a character your enjoy to play? On top of that any person with any common sense can do a AHVB, please use a BH team w/o cable lets see if you get the same results...

I'll end it at this I can use other teams prolly any against you and win. So believe me i dont need magnus to beat you, CF sticks are ass they have always been ass and they will alway be ass. Which is why i dont bother going there besides lack of comp. Heres a tip before you judge somebody judge yourself first....

[joe doe]

i was making fun of the guy who said the word NUB or NOOB...well whatever. But it seems i just pushed your buttons...relax man smoke your weed by the way

WHY

SO

SERIOUS?????:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Khiempossible]

I just DHC most of my HODs and don't worry about it. Unless it's in a corner, where I can have fun.

you can always try superjump cancelling the dash. Im told that works, but is really inconsistent.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

IT'S MAHVEL BABY!! GET HYPE!!

SJC'ing the HoD dash-in isn't a necessity to attempt, there's a great chance that you won't get it (hell, I can't even get it off). You're better off going for JD or Geddon off an Inferno (dependant on distance).

[Khiempossible]

yeah but there's that moment of realization, where inferno xx hod is muscle memory, and then you look at cable and then you look at his life bar and then you look at your super bar and go hmm, will a dhc kill him? and then you go SHIT! I can't let this HOD finish and you dhc anyway just to save your ass.

kinda like when you fuck shit up you just mash dhc to get out. like oh shit, i supered with cable, but it whiffed completely, dhc to HSF to save your ass.

luckily, storm always has my ass.

[joe doe]

Thanls to AK for recording the CTF tournaments anyway this is my match against
eric "Smoothvyper". Got my ass owned... but whatever!!!


First match ME (joe Doe)Blackheart/cable/capcom VS. ERIC Cable/Sentinel/capcom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DwG3r8DeKo&feature=related

There is a second match but whatever, this vids displays the kind of blackheart that i play.
Very fast paced, almost rushdown kind of blackheart. Enjoy!!!

Also if anyone has any comments please, do post!!!!:wgrin:

[lovepig78]

Thanls to AK for recording the CTF tournaments anyway this is my match against
eric "Smoothvyper". Got my ass owned... but whatever!!!


First match ME (joe Doe)Blackheart/cable/capcom VS. ERIC Cable/Sentinel/capcom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DwG3r8DeKo&feature=related

There is a second match but whatever, this vids displays the kind of blackheart that i play.
Very fast paced, almost rushdown kind of blackheart. Enjoy!!!

Also if anyone has any comments please, do post!!!!:wgrin:

you did a cable no no

but good match anyways

[BlackHeartKing]

Thanls to AK for recording the CTF tournaments anyway this is my match against
eric "Smoothvyper". Got my ass owned... but whatever!!!


First match ME (joe Doe)Blackheart/cable/capcom VS. ERIC Cable/Sentinel/capcom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DwG3r8DeKo&feature=related

There is a second match but whatever, this vids displays the kind of blackheart that i play.
Very fast paced, almost rushdown kind of blackheart. Enjoy!!!

Also if anyone has any comments please, do post!!!!:wgrin:

I incorporate that style of play into my gameplay but not with the team you're using. that's better left for when you're calling doom. if you go back and watch the vid again you'll see how that would be more effective.

also, you shouldn't be calling your assist first against a cable. you should be counter calling yours so that it comes on the screen and hits theres right after theres does the attack. this should be followed by the appropriate form of assist protection.

lastly, no hod on cable. you probably thought that he wouldn't get the meter but it's still better to just not do it.

all this said, I see potential. I bet you'd have a sick ass bh/cab/doom

[joe doe]

thanx lovepig78, and blackheart king you are right about the assisst calling. However about playing doom...well not so much. Playing doom where i play at will not get me very far, Cause i've tried. Doom is very easy to get passed by, unless you have strider doom should be left alone. That is if we are talking about competitive play.

And about the assisst calling...well believe it or not i am reckless for a reason. IF cable has one or two meter i call my assit so he would do his AHVB. When he is done cable is all for the taking, cause cable without meter is a dead cable!! Besides i can use either AAA from cable or capcom if either is low in life or dead, and still be able to win a match.

i want to bring blackheart to the rushdown arena, not a demon throwing running man game thatblackheart is subjected to. And to do rushdown with blackheart you can't always be to careful otherwise you won't get anywhere.

i mean it may not look like in the vid But Erick "smoothvyper" is one of the top players in the east cost currently, And on top of that he was playing team SCRUB, the worst match up for blackheart. And if you saw the vid i could have won only if i didn't missed that roundhouse with cable.

By the way HERE is The second match against Eric.

Joedoe(or Bear!!)cable/blackheart/cyclops vs. Eric "snoothvyper" cable/sentinel/capcom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3M1RqWo6ig&feature=related

this one is a really bad loss...but whateverit does show my playing style though.

But whatever a loss is a loss, and Thanx For the critisim Blackheartking, i really appreciated it.

[Khiempossible]

yeah man, you rush so hard. I think that's why I prefer storm over cable, I can short short storm instead of short short capcom.

Like BHK said doom rocks or sent drones serves much nicer if you want to do rush down.

my BH vs. cable plays different. I try and bait super jumps so that I can double ground dash and get in. then short short assist -> roundhouse demon -> mixup back into short short assist lock him.

EDIT: and stop trigger fingering those AHVBs. what a waste.

[judge_rl]

However about playing doom...well not so much. Playing doom where i play at will not get me very far, Cause i've tried. Doom is very easy to get passed by, unless you have strider doom should be left alone. That is if we are talking about competitive play.

And about the assisst calling...well believe it or not i am reckless for a reason. IF cable has one or two meter i call my assit so he would do his AHVB. When he is done cable is all for the taking, cause cable without meter is a dead cable!! Besides i can use either AAA from cable or capcom if either is low in life or dead, and still be able to win a match.


Thanks for sharing the vids joe doe.

About your first comment, how do you fail with Doom? If you play Doom-B anyway near how you utilized your assists in your vid (in your own words, 'recklessly'), he won't do you any good. When used in conjunction with a gameplan geared towards covering certain avenues of space and maintaining blockstun, he will do Blackheart/Cable wonders, imho.

Very dangerous tactic you mention above as far as using your assists as AHVB food just to empty Cable's 'click.' Try baiting an AHVB just by the way you move. A lot of times Cable will be itching to drop it. If you do want to use your assist to truly bait, drop them in front of Cable and move behind him to catch him on the rear. Also, just a note, your Captain Commando assist could profit you more if you played a patient game with Cable/Blackheart, which you don't seem to fit. Maybe try Cyc-aa. I also don't believe Cable w/o meter is dead. He can still be quite effective, and it is well known. Again, all imho. Good upload.

[BlackHeartKing]

no problem man. you can bait those AHVBs and punish THEM using the assist calling tactic I told you b/c you're already sjing when you call your assist. this way, if they AHVB you're over them in prime rape position. If they sj after you you and your assist is safe. and if they stay on the ground for some reason, you can further punish their assist.

go on youtube and look up demon overdose where I'm using bh/cab/doom. the rush down I'm doing on sent also works on cable b/c the rocks stop assist b4 they attack and you're always coming down on top. takes practice, but it's mad good and builds meter pretty fast.

[AK]

Nice JoeDoe, I thought that was you from reading your posts.

One thing that I think works regardless of who you're using: never give up! I've won many matches w/ t. bonne left vs. 2 or 3 characters. Commando's even better than T. Bonne on point, so never throw in the towel.

Your BH is good man. I say keep it up. You almost got Erik there. BTW, I used to use Bh/cable/cyc a lot back in the days when Boston came up with it. It's one of the few teams I consider tournament worthy, myself. Cable really benefits from BH assist, even if you're left without a real AAA behind that.

[joe doe]

First, Thanks AK for the kind words. You would never think that from that team you would get such results. I mean i use to use it a couple of years back Strider/cable/T.bonne, and the key to every thing is to constantly force your opponenet into t.bonne without doing to many hits. Cause as you know the more hits your opponent gets before t.bone hits them, the less the damage t.bone will do. It is a very hard game to keep up but you seem to be doing just fine.

Judge, thanks for the advice. I went back to the drawing board and gave doom another chance and i believe i can work with him. However, if we are talking about rushdown doom actually does the opposite. Capcom on the other hand hit anything within a 1/4 of the screen.
And if they don't get hit, they stay in block stun for a micro sec. or two. Long enough for me to do a quick super jump and dash to start the rushdown process again. Cyclops is mor for the defensive senario like if i am fighting magneto or so.

By the way, like i said before my calling assisst tactics are very,very...very reckless but they work 90% of the time. The reason is, is that my opponent can't really figure out my game plan, they see my assisst right in front of them, they can punish it but they think that i know that they can do that so that means that i want them to do that. So in order for them to figure out my tactics they tend to play very conservative which is what i want. Since blackheart was never ment for rushdowns, he doesn't have many tools to work with. And fighting an opponent who is unsure how to respond to my wave of attacks gives me enough of an edge to beat them.

However, you are right on how to call assisst and protect them. I know how to do such a thing, i mean i've been playing this game for a while now. But thanks for the advice, and remeber sometimes to get an edge in anything you have to risk everything. That is how i play now days, since back in the day i use to play just like you said i should play. But i didn't get very far and my game was nothing but predictable.

Blackheart king i saw your stuff man, and let me tell you that you are very good!!! i actually downloaded a couple of your match vids. If it's no trouble can you post them on this thread and sort of give a small rundown as to what is the most important thing that those who want to play Blackheart at a competitive level should do. Cause is one thing to talk about it an another is to see it.

[lovepig78]

Blackheart king i saw your stuff man, and let me tell you that you are very good!!! i actually downloaded a couple of your match vids. If it's no trouble can you post them on this thread and sort of give a small rundown as to what is the most important thing that those who want to play Blackheart at a competitive level should do. Cause is one thing to talk about it an another is to see it.

BHking and I will be collaborating in a vid very soon. hopefully adressing all of BH mistakes and how to play him at "tourny level." might be throwing random goodies. so keep an eye out for that in the near future

[AK]

Yea, BH/Cyc used to be more effective, but that was back when Cable/Cyc was pretty good on its own. That was back before Sentinel or Spiral were even discovered to be useful(or Mag/Storm even). Cable was king back then. Nowadays, it's not so much, but oh well, I still think it gets the job done if you're careful.

Really,you used Strider/Cable/Tron before? I would never have known. I like the mixup possibilities more than anything else.


I definitely agree that CF could see more BH users(I don't use bh/cable/cyc as much), as it's not too hard to get OCV with BH there. The few players that do know how to play against bh, though, rape him pretty bad.

[judge_rl]

But thanks for the advice, and remeber sometimes to get an edge in anything you have to risk everything. That is how i play now days, since back in the day i use to play just like you said i should play. But i didn't get very far and my game was nothing but predictable.


I totally agree with you. Only thing is, as you said, 'sometimes.' So, you guys have played or seen Sanford's Blackheart? From what I have read, it's gdlk. I just don't understand how all of a sudden the master Blackheart has arrived when he has already been in play for so long. Is he doing anything new? Is that possible? I'm sure, with his knowledge of strategies, holes, and counters, he plays quite smartly. haha

[joe doe]

well, lovepig, thanks and i will be in the look out for it. However i meant, that i wanted to see actual tournament footage for as you know casual and tournament game is on completely different levels. th pressure alone in the tournament scene can dwindle your ability to play by half alone, and that is not counting who you are paired against. If they are reallly good and you know it, even before the game you are fighting to keep your self from giving up before playing.

I mean when i was playing against eric, i was constantly fighting my self from rushing him too much because i was going to mess up eventually. But as you saw in the footage i couldn't keep it together too well, hence i kept wasting tholse AHVBs.

And AK, You have a pretty good Blackheart/cable/sangief! I actaully stole it from you for a while. Sangief Mecha. mode is nasty!!, it can't be stopped by any assisst. The only problem is getting him in to mecha. mode before someone rapes him. But i believe in that team you should bring it back man!!!

Judge...believe it or not i've seen Sanford's Blackheart and well it's not there yet. Blackheart is not like magneto, it's a completely different game style. I don't think he is used to it yet, but once he does he will show us something good ill tell ya.

[BlackHeartKing]

joe... I've only played in a couple tournies b/c they're always during the times that I'm at church. But I'll tell you this. Those vids you saw were not me in top form.
1. We were playing on bad controls.
2. The two I was playing have known me since mvc2 came out and know how to play against my BH better than anyone else.
3. I play better in tournaments b/c I actually have something to lose by losing (no more playing time). I never feel pressure or intimidated b/c it's just a game to me (that's why I only play like once every week or two). Lovepig can vouch for this, no matter how serious I seem (I like to get hyphy) I won't play 100% serious until it's in a tourny or some one's really getting on my nerves.

okay having typed out that essay lol, I think it would be easier for you to post a vid that you have questions on, and I'll give the rundown on what I'm doing. Those vids are accurate enough to how I'd play him against the top players round here anyways.

senor pig... I'm beginning the catalog process of what's to be in the vid right after the post. I'll pm it to you or something when I'm done.

[AK]

Thanks JoeDoe. I agree with you 100%. If you don't get mech zangief, you're screwed. But if you get it and can safely switch Cable or BH in (like during hail storm, my favorite time haha), then it's all good.

You've actually inspired me to give BH a try again seeing how you faired pretty well against people (and myself last last tourney, lol).

BTW , are you from NJ by any chance?

[J360]

You guys also have to avoid HOD on a team with a cable on it. Heres a tip for everyone since i havent seen it mentioned.

This is strictly for someone who blocks HOD.

If your opponent has atleast 2 meters, they can tech hit into Cable to take the last hit of HOD so that when FS happens cables in the match to punish Blackheart.

I dont think its much to worry about seeing as how ive never seen anyone do it. If your opponent has too little life to risk it or not enough meter than you have nothing to worry about. It's just good to know.

[AK]

You guys also have to avoid HOD on a team with a cable on it. Heres a tip for everyone since i havent seen it mentioned.

This is strictly for someone who blocks HOD.

If your opponent has atleast 2 meters, they can tech hit into Cable to take the last hit of HOD so that when FS happens cables in the match to punish Blackheart.

I dont think its much to worry about seeing as how ive never seen anyone do it. If your opponent has too little life to risk it or not enough meter than you have nothing to worry about. It's just good to know.


That definitely happens from time to time with enough life/meter. More basic though, some of the CF players first have to learn to AHVB out of inferno xx HoD. If I remember correctly, this can be done without even push blocking. You just block the inferno then AHVB. Or at the least, push block, then free ahvb/jump out/dash out.

I'm all for more anti-bh at CF or anywhere. That'll only make the BH players like myself work harder/smarter.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

joe doe: You're better off rushing down with a team like BH/Cab/Cyke(Doom) than with Commando...especially against Scrub. With the team you're using I'd much rather play the waiting game and peg 'em with Cap seldomly! You have the BH tactics down when it comes to fighting Cable (despite the HoD) so you mosdef have the potential to bringing the other BH mindset to light.

BTW...you probably already know who I am...I saw ya the day before that tourney, but I had the kid with me so my attention was taken. Good shit with the matches you'll get it sooner or later...

[joe doe]

Deth-scynyde, i think i do know you!! I haven't seen you play in a while it must be because of the fatherly duties. BTW you have cute kid!!! Good for you man.

AK, sorry i am not from jersey, i am and always have been a Bronx boy( GAMEPOINT BITCHES!!!!) And do bring back your Mecha-gief-team (see i gave it a name LOL!)

J360 wats up man! i didn't know that you were a blackheart fan!! Well maybe not but from what you told me the last time, you seem to like using him with magneto. I have been toying around with MAgs/blackheart/sentinel, and to tell you the truth i have barely lost with that team. I havent played top players yet, but to beat your normal CF scrub with a team that on paper shouldn't even work wel together....Well i don't know...it's still just a tryout i mean i am sorry to say but magneto is too broken for my taste.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

[QUOTE=joe doe;5404848]Deth-scynyde, i think i do know you!! I haven't seen you play in a while it must be because of the fatherly duties. BTW you have cute kid!!! Good for you man.[QUOTE]

Thanx bro...I usually don't play at CF often for 2 reasons: the sticks are ass and I'm far better on console so I prefer DC. If you want to take up Magnus while keeping BH in the game you should also try Mag/BH/Cyke (forgot the guys' name that used the team a while back but he made that team GOOD!!).

SO yeah, one day I'll have to set something up so I play ya on console...I'll try at CF one day but I'd much rather play on the scrub machine (that being the best machine in CF atm)...I'll prolly still get my ass handed to me though lmao...peace...

[joe doe]

Sure thing Deth-Scyanyde, When you set something up let me know and i'll be there. Just tell your friend MR. PRINGLES to Take it easy, cause i'll bet that he'll be there since he is your friend. I mean i don't like problems but if they look for me well, Let get it on!!!!!! LOL (i'm playing)

[joe doe]

YO!!!! man i haven't post in this thread for a while. Anyway, i have another tourney match by your truly although i was defeated twice by AK (i'm still kind of salty for that, LOL) it still was a good match. For those who are starting to use blackheart it'll be good if you watch it and see how blackheart is used.

Cause i am tired of seeing the old demon superjumping blackheart every where i play at. Now that i have started playing BH, a bunch of people are playing him to, although i don't mind that but i don't like the way they just super jump and RH demon all day!!!

so pay attention here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHgBnbrCVJg&feature=PlayList&p=EEA9E6E55CF3B149&index=14

By the way although i messd up on the last fight, that way i used blackheart against a tron bsaed team is correct.

[Hollow]

YO!!!! man i haven't post in this thread for a while. Anyway, i have another tourney match by your truly although i was defeated twice by AK (i'm still kind of salty for that, LOL) it still was a good match. For those who are starting to use blackheart it'll be good if you watch it and see how blackheart is used.

Cause i am tired of seeing the old demon superjumping blackheart every where i play at. Now that i have started playing BH, a bunch of people are playing him to, although i don't mind that but i don't like the way they just super jump and RH demon all day!!!

so pay attention here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHgBnbrCVJg&feature=PlayList&p=EEA9E6E55CF3B149&index=14

By the way although i messd up on the last fight, that way i used blackheart against a tron bsaed team is correct.

Not too pretentious, are you?

[joe doe]

did i come across that way? :amazed:

my bad...

[AK]

Don't hate on Joe Doe.

He is doing a good thing by bringing some variety into the tournament scene, so it's all good.


Good matches, JoeDoe. Once my Storm gets caught up with the rest of CF-level Storm's, I should have some new BS for you haha. Close matches, though. I use SJ. rh from time to time, but I do think sj. jab is one of BH's best/safest moves.

[joe doe]

Hey wats up AK!!! BTW i wasn't talking about your blackheart. Your blackheart is very patient and only attacks when it need to. I actually need to learn to slow down my game a bit, cause i keep getting into hailstorms, aHVB, etc. Although, my style is pretty reckless, i still need to control it a bit

[BlackHeartKing]

YO!!!! man i haven't post in this thread for a while. Anyway, i have another tourney match by your truly although i was defeated twice by AK (i'm still kind of salty for that, LOL) it still was a good match. For those who are starting to use blackheart it'll be good if you watch it and see how blackheart is used.

Cause i am tired of seeing the old demon superjumping blackheart every where i play at. Now that i have started playing BH, a bunch of people are playing him to, although i don't mind that but i don't like the way they just super jum