Important SFIV feedback thread

[s-kill]

Hey all,

For better (and for worse), this thread (http://www.capcom.com/BBS/showthread.php?t=20432)over at the Capcom forums is going to be read by a LOT of people involved with the game, so please take a second to share some thoughts.

Only your comments can prevent a million crying scrubs from controlling the fate of Street Fighter :)

http://www.capcom.com/BBS/showthread.php?t=20432

xo,
Seth

[DaDesiCanadian]

The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later.

:rofl:

[Hawk]

Divide and conquer. :bgrin:

The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later.

Haha, I've been seeing a lot of that on all the websites involving SFIV... :rofl:

[Ultima]

Hey Seth: Think Capcom needs any help? I've got a few ideas (http://uramble.com/sfp) they could use. :p

[Gaijinblaze]

Are you sure people here are any more qualified than those at the BBS? I've read some pretty despicable things on this board so far from people who think they know their shit. Wouldn't it be better if a mod filtered whatever is said?

[s-kill]

Are you sure people here are any more qualified than those at the BBS? I've read some pretty despicable things on this board so far from people who think they know their shit. Wouldn't it be better if a mod filtered whatever is said?

It might be, but Capcom is interested in hearing "from the people" since they would like to sell more than the 8 copies that will be bought by Street Fighter's greatest living masters.

:rofl:

[Guregu]

I'll definitely be leaving some good feedback on the Capcom boards. Thanks Seth!

[Kamui]

Certainly understandable, though that makes me nervous.

It might be, but Capcom is interested in hearing "from the people" since they would like to sell more than the 8 copies that will be bought by Street Fighter's greatest living masters.

:rofl:

[Sacr3D]

Call me negative but I have a feeling that SFIV will do to the series like MK4 did to their series...

Even if its bad it wont go THAT low.

[shoo]

ill help once the server isnt so busy :tup:

[AKUMA2000]

The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later.

:rofl:

I got that too.

Most likely everyone will be seeing that the rest of the day.......:rofl:

[shoo]

i got in and registered


brought back the scruffy av

[Ultima]

Man. I'm gonna have to live ni that damn forum to run damage control or something.

[Nokato]

I definitely plan on doing nothing but encourage this game to go in a good direction. This is really serious, which means hopefully everyone who posts there REALLY sits down and thinks about WHAT and HOW they forumlate their opinions on that BBS (or even here for that matter).

My sentiments in the HD Remix were my own, but there definitely was a better way to go about expressing them. I plan to treat this project alot differently, in terms of giving feedback.


My first thoughts after seeing the trailer?

I couldn't believe what I was seeing...no matter how many different opinions we all have about whatever we discuss on srk, its safe to say that the general consensus is that we all wanted a "megaton" bomb to drop. We've been waiting for a very long time for something like this, and most of us didn't think it would happen. I almost had that same feeling I had when I saw SFII in an old poolroom in 1988, I was engulfed in the moment of what I saw because I hadn't seen or played anything like it. Seeing this trailer, wasn't like watching the hundreds of game trailers I see normally this was something that, over time I trained myself not to hope for...and here it is punching me in my face live, and in living color. Being a 2-D enthusiast, there may have been one fraction of a second where I was dissappointed that it was 3-D, that quickly dissappeared as I got thrown into the action of that trailer. If it's 3-D, at least to me it doesn't matter, its SF4-- I have to play it. I have to buy it. The concept models are capturing the sensibility of Akira Yasuda's (Akiman) art, and if its 3-D that's all you can ask for.

This is a new game. A new Street Fighter. Much like playing SFII for the first time, I think and hope that others treat it the same way. I'm guilty of bashing a game because, " What happened to (insert tactic/combo/priority from a previous game)? That's sucks, I don't like this game!" For some reason, the announcement of this game has gotten me to approach this in a different manner. I can't help but feel like a little kid again in some respects. For the first 10-15 minutes of this announcement I didn't want to believe it. It felt like a dream--that it couldn't be real after all these years. But indeed it is.

I know alot of people have seen my posts scoffing at any notion that a new SF game would be made, and I stood by those feelings and opinions without fail. Looking back on them, even though those feelings were expressed in earnest, I do apologize for them and to anyone on these forums that were offended by them in any way. I look forward to this game, even with limited knowledge about it and from what I've seen so far I don't see that changing.



-Nokato Sakurazuka

[platinum_pinoy]

Who's specifically making the game? The original creators of the SF franchise or new people? Is it a Japanese dev team or a US one?

[{ Jase }]

capcom usa will fuck it up. eITHER WAY I hope japan makes it's because japan most likly has a team that are hardcore SF players,that go to tournaments.America is focus on graphics other then gameplay.

I hope SF4 WILL NOT be like mk4 ,Guilty gear, or a childish party game like smash.

Capcom make it SF dammit, I can even stand for something like ex,long as it's not like the 3 games above.

Thanks.

[RushedDown]

jesus i see u got another account jase lol

[Corner-Trap]

For the love of God, can everyone please tell Capcom that we want the game to be 2D.

[{ Jase }]

jesus i see u got another account jase lol

shhhhh! I might even go premium,when I hit the lottery.

[Nokato]

Right now, we don't know if its 2-D or 3-D. The trailer was done in 3-D but as Seth pointed out, they are concept models. I can understand how you feel, I deep down would like a 2-D game also, but I'm also suprisingly willing to see the direction Capcom has chosen. Although, with only a year turn-around time, decision making for the look would either need to be confirmed now or rather soon.

[urahara]

shhhhh! I might even go premium,when I hit the lottery.

Will you get your own av then?

[OhNoos]

Any chance...any at all... Of an arcade release in the US? I know it's slim odds but it would be awesome to have a new SF in the arcades.

[R_Mendoza]

If feedback has proved anything, it's proved customers are morons, they don't know what they want.

Didn't Capcom quiz people before SF3? How successful was that when it came out?

People are idiots.

But hey, if you're gonna quiz idiots, the best place is capcom-unity. :nod:

My prediction?

1. Little Story Progression from SF3 (bring back more classic characters, easier brand recognition)
2. Naruto/DBZ+Rival Schools Gameplay style
3. Quasi Cell Shaded+Fancy 2D effects

Unless Capcom have people who know 3D games inside out, they probably will go for something more like DBZ or Naruto style gameplay.

[inkblot]

Screw 2D.

I have the same sentiments as Nokato. When I saw SF2 for the first time is was amazing. I had never seen a video game like it -- no one had. SF2 a phenomenon because it revolutionized video games on so many levels: graphics, the richness of the characters, the ability to play the game with your own style, etc.

SF4 has to at least *try* to have the same impact. And IMO the trailer meets this mark. Yes, I know it's just a concept, but I have never seen a beat-em-up game with the style and raw energy of that trailer. This is the only chance Capcom has to re-invigorate the genre in the same way that RE4 reinvented the Resident Evil series.

[fatboy]

Screw 2D.

I have the same sentiments as Nokato. When I saw SF2 for the first time is was amazing. I had never seen a video game like it -- no one had. SF2 a phenomenon because it revolutionized video games on so many levels: graphics, the richness of the characters, the ability to play the game with your own style, etc.

SF4 has to at least *try* to have the same impact. And IMO the trailer meets this mark. Yes, I know it's just a concept, but I have never seen a beat-em-up game with the style and raw energy of that trailer. This is the only chance Capcom has to re-invigorate the genre in the same way that RE4 reinvented the Resident Evil series.

1) Wow.. Right on! There is nothing I can add to that, to help share the same sentiments.

2) I am a little wary about the "community input," any one with a brain knows where that can go if we are not careful.

Community input does not necessarily equal good development.

[Sasmasta]

snip
Well said...

[nice sig by the way]

[Asian Mike]

My prediction?

1. Little Story Progression from SF3 (bring back more classic characters, easier brand recognition)
2. Naruto/DBZ+Rival Schools Gameplay style
3. Quasi Cell Shaded+Fancy 2D effects

Unless Capcom have people who know 3D games inside out, they probably will go for something more like DBZ or Naruto style gameplay.

Oh, no :sad:

Capcom dont fuck up and turn SF into a kiddy DBZ or narturo gameplay.Even worst MK4. Which sucks! If they dont know 3d inside and out like tekken.We are scewd.

[Guregu]

Screw 2D.

I have the same sentiments as Nokato. When I saw SF2 for the first time is was amazing. I had never seen a video game like it -- no one had. SF2 a phenomenon because it revolutionized video games on so many levels: graphics, the richness of the characters, the ability to play the game with your own style, etc.

SF4 has to at least *try* to have the same impact. And IMO the trailer meets this mark. Yes, I know it's just a concept, but I have never seen a beat-em-up game with the style and raw energy of that trailer. This is the only chance Capcom has to re-invigorate the genre in the same way that RE4 reinvented the Resident Evil series.

I agree. If the gameplay can replicate the style of the trailer and have revolutionary gameplay mechanics as well then we'll be in for a treat.

[str[e]ak]

personally, i think the naruto games are pretty fun (sorry, i have the mind of a 12 year old sometimes. :rofl:).

BUT, THIS IS STREET FIGHTER. make it street fighter, please.

[edit]

oh yeah. i'll leave the feedback when the website loads. :tup:

[Nokato]

Well said...

[nice sig by the way]

Thanks its hella fitting. When ya wrong...ya wrong :rofl:

[Michiyo_Yoshiku]

Yeah how about

GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME SO WE DON'T GET 10 GILLION UPGRADES

[caliagent#3]

2) I am a little wary about the "community input," any one with a brain knows where that can go if we are not careful.

Community input does not necessarily equal good development.


I agree. If this was the pre-Daigo evo2k4 era i'd be all for community input. I think they should really just take the time to develop the game and play test the hell out of it. As long as it's as far away from 3s gameplay wise i think it'd be dope.

[MaybeMemories]

i think a RUMBLE FISH look/mechnics was the direction taken then the game could turn out to be quite technical and very eye pleasing

[Sano]

I just asked for Chun-Li on the site lol since Ryu and Ken are already in. I don't care if they have to make up another lame "Someone kidnapped one of my adopted kids and I have to save her" type of story just get her in there maaaaang! :lovin:

[shinblanka]

Screw 2D.

I have the same sentiments as Nokato. When I saw SF2 for the first time is was amazing. I had never seen a video game like it -- no one had. SF2 a phenomenon because it revolutionized video games on so many levels: graphics, the richness of the characters, the ability to play the game with your own style, etc.

SF4 has to at least *try* to have the same impact. And IMO the trailer meets this mark. Yes, I know it's just a concept, but I have never seen a beat-em-up game with the style and raw energy of that trailer. This is the only chance Capcom has to re-invigorate the genre in the same way that RE4 reinvented the Resident Evil series.


You knew it before the release :rolleyes::wink:didn't you sir?!?!?!


I don't care now that it's been confirmed. I hope all of the feedback is positive so we can get the best FIGHTING GAME ever for SF4. Random shit like 2d vs. 3d shouldn't be a question IMO. If it's 3d like that trailer then i'll kiss the 2d version of sf goodbye. Your right about the feeling you got while watching that trailer. It was the same feeling I had when I saw sf2ww in the arcade. I'm 33 years old now, but I feel like i'm 15 again with this news. I've waited soooooooo f'ing long for a true sequel worthy of the brand STREETFIGHTER. Hopefully with good feedback capcom will make SF the standard in fighting games once again.

Anyone that hates on sf4 because it's going to be 3d instead of 2d has no joy in their hearts and they like to see shit fail just to they can say I TOLD YOU SO!!! Fuck them haters.:arazz: I hope they release the 1st version in the arcade. I know arcades are pretty much dead in the usa these days, but I feel that SF4 could breath life back into the arcade scene. I know i'm going to start saving right now for atleast 1-2 arcade boards/kits for FinalRound(12 or 13), so atleast i'll have it for tournament play.:wink::tup::karate::karate: IMO there is no way SF4 shouldn't be in the arcades 1st. You can't tell me that the game that started the fighting game genre shouldn't make it's grand return to the arcades 1st!!! And let the it be in the arcades for atleast a year before being released on all console systems. This is wishful thinking for a dead usa arcade market, but it may happen in japan. Either way it goes I think before I post idea's for sf4.

I think that should be the moto for posting about SF4:

Think before you post people!!!:wonder: It doesn't all have to be good news or positive feedback. Just don't post random jokes/shit because you want your post read and replied to. Keep that on srk forums unrelated to sf4.:arazz:

1st request: Don't make sf4 like tekken. I don't know how projectiles will work in a true 3d world. Projectiles and zoning/footies are apart of sf gameplay. I would like 3d characters, 3d backgrounds with 2nd gameplay. That's unless capcom has made a new fighting system never seen before!?!?!?!?!?!?

Maybe I need to think outside the box for sf4.
P.S.--- I can't stop watching the trailer!!!:looney::looney:

[giefster]

2D! 2D! 2D! 2D!

This is Street Fighter IV, not Street Fighter EX4. Big, HD sprites with smooth animation would look so much better.

I'd like to see a return of some (if not all) of the classic characters. *cough* Zangief *cough* as well as a return of all SF3 characters (except maybe Urien and Gill. Though, excluding Twelve and Q wouldn't break my heart either)

And though I know it will never happen, I wish Akuma was finally killed off. He's such an overpowered character (in most appearances). Plus, I'm getting sick of playing punks that choose Akuma exclusively.

As for Online features, a video save function would be rad. Especially if it had an editor so players could save the best parts of the match or make a highlight reel.

Also a section online where players could download and view matches being played by the top players.

And I would absolutely LOVE if ranked matches required RANDOM character selection. While this is probably never going to happen, I would like to see an option to search for games with players wanting Random Level & Character selection. I just personally like playing as a wide range of characters and playing against people who do the same. I really get sick of playing people that only choose 1 or 2 characters ever. Additionally, players would not have to go back to the character select screen between matches, which would rule.

And ABOVE ALL ELSE

Release a GOOD arcade stick for the 360 along side it. I can't stand the DOA4 and VF5 arcade sticks for the 360. I want bigger, heavier, more classic style arcade sticks that don't slide around while I play. (or at the very least, a Sega Saturn-esque controller)

Well, that's all I got for right now.

My biggest question about this game is: what are the new gameplay functions? The addition of the parry in SF3 was brilliant and I'm very excited to see what SF4 has in store.

[Kromo]

Random ideas (like they matter)

more normals (maybe some "sf III ex" normals) and ways you can modify them. 6 punches and 6 kicks kind of isnt enough. More dynamic or realistic defence, maybe multiple layers of blocking (full hit, avoided it narrowly, grazed you, trade off, parry) so its not just hit or miss...If Ryu shoots a big ass ball of flaming energy at you, I hardly see how putting your arms infront of your face will protect you. (I thought of this while playing marvel, cyclops' Mega optic blast, isnt it hitting their legs too?)
Some interactive enviroments would be nice (not so much weapons but kicking people through plate glass or throwing somebody into a chinese bicyclist)

Ideas that will never be in the game:
Bushido blade style one really clean, really hard hit will knock em out.
Bone crunching goodness anyone? I'd love to zangief crack some ribs with a bear hug, or ryu disable an opponent with an arm breaking grab....FATALITY
If time runs out the local cops come by and break up the street fight (you both lose and have to pick new charecters because the ones you had are in custody)

[Mercy]

I knew this was coming. Wish list time. No 3d, Keep parries CvS2 timing. Maybe one or two old school character on top of the usual Ken, Ryu, Chun, but with a name like new begging we need new characters. Keep air techs and ground techs. Maybe go back to the old way of doing universal overheads, totaly re-drawn.

[kane_warhead]

I know you guys want 2d... But making it still 2d will just going to kill the franchise. I want it 2d... BUT the current trend is to go 3d. Make it 3d with good graphics and people will follow. Have it partnered up with excellent gameplay, I'm sure the SF crowd will love it.

Make Street Fighter evolve

[Arsenal]

As long as it has solid gameplay, and is visually appealing, it has a chance as a 3D title. 2D just seems so much more safe though; people INSTANTLY recognize 2D Street Fighter.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

I don't care what the game looks like, because in this day an age there are practically no limitations on hardware. Bluray should be more than capable in storing beautiful HD spirtes, or 3d for that matter.

I just want to be able to get the game and have it "feel" like a street fighter game.

[Mercy]

It just seems like 3d capcom fighters aren't tournament worthy. Rival schools and EX are fun to play with friends at home.

[Arsenal]

I don't care what the game looks like, because in this day an age there are practically no limitations on hardware. Bluray should be more than capable in storing beautiful HD spirtes, or 3d for that matter.

I just want to be able to get the game and have it "feel" like a street fighter game.

Agreed. If it "feels" like SF, it's cool with me.

[Keits]

Man. I'm gonna have to live ni that damn forum to run damage control or something.

Yeah some of those posts are out of hand. People want story line related things that CANNOT happen with the current storyline. They just live in a fantasy world where they made up their own SF story.

[skitz]

Being the fact USA are stuck in the 3d phase, It's going to be in 3d,I feel it.

I honestly don't know the history of SF old team,but I heard they are gone so must likely it's going to be a little unusal ad the fact Japan most likly have SF players that know their shit,actually work for them.I highly dout Capcom USA do.


Ok for me,

For some odd reason I feel that it's going to be in 3d I hate to say it. I wouldn't mind a SF with T5 type graphics,but I hope it plays like the original SF.

As far as for combo wise,if they are going to add a juggle system, I hope its something typical like T5.Not 40 to 50 hit strings across the whole damn screen. Wait, namco is in japan, right?. Oh fuck, Capcom don't be giving us no MK4 juggles.

As for air grabs,errr I wouldn't mind that either.

But all I can say is make the gameplay with street fighter feeling. Don't alienate street fighter with gameplay like naruto, MK4, DBZ games or what so ever.

just my 2 cents.

[platinum_pinoy]

I've said this before: I don't care if it has a 3D look as long as it has a 2D feel. If they can make SF4 look 3D and still play like a 2D game, then that would be fantastic.

[Hard Edge]

The sad part about the "community input" bit (while endearing) is that most SF fans really don't know what they want.

[otter]

the server is too busy for me to even register. i just wanted to tell them to follow thier hearts....now they'll never know :sad:

[kmasera]

Anyone who seriously cares about this game being quality is going to help bombard that retard circus with feedback on what makes a fighting game good (ie: ST) and destroy all of the stupid, inane suggestions (ie: storyline, parrying).

[Kyokuji]

Here's the list I posted in that thread:

As someone who plays 2D/3D fighters on a competitive level, but still understands the need for mass market appeal, I've compiled a list.
Assuming the developers are actually reading this thread, I'll lay this out so that it's easy to draw out the main points:

Characters

-With a subtitle like "A New Beginning", most of the characters should be new. Ryu and Ken are already in it obviously, and I know a lot of people want to see Chun-Li, Guy or Guile in it, but other than that, I'd recommend you use mostly new characters. Look back on what designs people liked and which they didn't (SF3's character designs bombed for the most part) and draw them based on that feedback. The public generally seems to prefer semi-modern looking "people" rather than freaks and weirdos.

-Concentrate on creating a balanced roster of unique characters rather than jamming as many in as possible. I'd rather see 12-16 well made characters than 35 poorly balanced ones.

-If you're going to have a joke/comical character, don't make them suck. You should want to laugh at the character, not the person playing them.

-Be very careful when creating "user friendly" characters. Chun-li in 3rd Strike is a good example of how an easy to use character can end up being too strong, and negatively effect both the way the game looks and plays at tournaments.

-Understand that making a character big and slow is a big disadvantage and they need something to help make up for their large hitbox and lack of mobility. All too often, grapplers and other large characters are low-bottom tier.

-Make sure you carefully weigh a character's strengths in relation to the others. Looking at someone like Twelve and then Ken in 3rd Strike is confusing on a balance level.

(I know I'm being repetitive in this section, but poor balance will kill a fighter's longevity if it's the same 2-4 characters all the time).

Online

-If you're planning to go online with the title, consider releasing balance patches, but be careful of what you remove. Sometimes glitches or unintended move properties add to a game rather than detract from it. This also allows you to sidestep the negative stigma that comes from releasing multiple pay-for revisions of a game.

-Make sure the netcode is solid. In fighting games, a single millisecond of lag can often mean the difference between a win or a loss. Gamers should be able to play one another cross country without significant delay. All the ladder rankings and match-making systems in the world are useless if it doesn't run smoothly.

-If there's an overpowered boss character of some sort, for god's sake, don't allow them online.

Stages

-If there is an arcade release, include a stage select in the VS mode. Nothing is more irritating than seeing the same stages/hearing the same songs over and over again if only a few characters are chosen competitively.

-Interactive environments can have a huge effect on the game's balance. Tekken 4 was so badly broken by wall combos and uneven surfaces it that Namco abandoned the latter completely for the next game. If you're going to have stage interactivity, make it integral to the way the game plays rather than throwing it in as an afterthought because that will likely break the game. The safer approach is just to have the interactivity on a purely cosmetic level.

Gameplay

-It should play like its own game rather than like the Alpha series or the SF3 series. Think carefully about how things like alpha counters, custom combos and parries changed the game system positively and negatively and plan accordingly.

-Concentrate on making it a good VS fighter first and worry about including extras and single player incentives after. Extras and un-lockables should complement a solid fighting engine, not the other way around. Don't fall in to the MK: Armageddon trap.

-Play test the game thoroughly. Fighters can easily end up being broken if they're not examined in-depth before release. Look for things like infinites, abusable loops, kara-cancelling type glitches, etc.

New Players

-One of the biggest issues with modern fighters is that they make no real effort to ease new players in. Some sort of tutorial/lesson mode would be greatly helpful to people trying to learn the game. Obviously, you can't account for high level stuff that hasn't been discovered yet, but just teaching people the fundamentals can go a long way. Emphasize tactics as well as execution/combos.

Graphics/Art Direction

-Don't be afraid to go 3D if you haven't already, but keep in mind that the game still needs to feel "right" control-wise. The fastest way to tell whether a SF game's controls feel wrong is if the jumps are too high and floaty (ie. The SFEX series) and the movement is too stiff. This is still Street Fighter not Virtua Fighter or Tekken and it should move at a different pace.

Marketing

-Hype the game up online. Release little tidbits of information regularly to keep the game fresh in people's minds. Too often, companies will go months or even a year without saying anything and people will start to forget about the game or even doubt that it's going to be released in good form. Games like Smash Bros. Brawl have kept people interested through small, regular releases of new characters and content.

[Sk1llzThatK1llz]

Being the fact USA are stuck in the 3d phase, It's going to be in 3d,I feel it.

I honestly don't know the history of SF old team,but I heard they are gone so must likely it's going to be a little unusal ad the fact Japan most likly have SF players that know their shit,actually work for them.I highly dout Capcom USA do.


Ok for me,

For some odd reason I feel that it's going to be in 3d I hate to say it. I wouldn't mind a SF with T5 type graphics,but I hope it plays like the original SF.

As far as for combo wise,if they are going to add a juggle system, I hope its something typical like T5.Not 40 to 50 hit strings across the whole damn screen. Wait, namco is in japan, right?. Oh fuck, Capcom don't be giving us no MK4 juggles.

As for air grabs,errr I wouldn't mind that either.

But all I can say is make the gameplay with street fighter feeling. Don't alienate street fighter with gameplay like naruto, MK4, DBZ games or what so ever.
just my 2 cents.

I agree man, I bold and underlined the part I mainly agree with though.

[CPS_3]

I have a suggestion, DON'T LISTEN TO THE "FANS" if you don't want to ruin it

[pootnannies]

i wouldn't say that making the game 3D is part of "evolving" street fighter. there has yet to be a game made that is made of sprites that are HD quality with smooth sf3-like animation. that would definitely be evolutionary as far as 2D games go. that being said, i really liked the trailer and if they can put that kind of animation into the characters than it should please most if not all sf fans. the trailer even had a 2D-esque look to it. just please for the love of all that is holy, don't animate like tekken or vf. the animation in those games is not what it should be.
other than visuals though, if the game plays like naruto or bleach or whatever the new trend is, it will fail horribly. those games are fun for like 2 seconds and then you play something else. it has to be deep but not so much where it will throw off too many new players from wanting to keep playing it.

[SweetJohnnyV]

Wisdom!


Co-fucking-sign dude!

Just about everything you said is gold. One point I'd like to elaborate on more is having a reasonably small cast that is solid, varied, and well-balanced. I really don't want a mugen-mega-pack roster with 100 clones of the same people. On top of being absurdly hard to create and balance for the developer, it makes learning the characters and their match-ups for the players much more difficult.

[nf0x]

I don't care if it's 2d, 3d, 4d, or DD.

As long as it feels like street fighter, you've already gone a step beyond every capcom fighter in the last 7 years.

[Keits]

Here is what I posted over there.

Originally Posted by Keits View Post
SF4 is a big deal. Capcom needs to treat it like a big deal. That means a big budget. You need to get this right the first try, right out of the gate. In the past, its taken multiple revisions of each engine to get something worth playing in a tournament.

Here is my wishlist;

1.) Put this game on system that has a hard drive, and update/patch it for balance as the sick tournament community breaks the game apart. Don't rely on too much closed beta testing to try to get it perfect, unles you are hiring the fighting game elite to come test for you for 6 months. I doubt you are, so make SF4 patchable. This, in my eyes, is the most important thing you can do. This is the age of the internet. Lets start using it.

2.) GGPO. License it from Ponder over at ggpo.net . Don't waste time and money trying to reverse engineer it. Just hire this man or pay him for his amazing work. You won't regret it. You might regret not doing it, though. Set an example with this game about how other online fighters need to conduct themselves in the future. Like you were in the 90s... be the trend setter. Take that risk, spend that money. Get it right the first time.

3.) Characters. More is better. If you have 10 characters, and 3 are top tier... you generally see 3 characters in tournaments. If you have 50 characters, and only 8 top tier... the percentage is worse, but the variety at high levels is still better. So, I'm of the opinion that you should load this game up with characters. Lots of old favorites, aged, with lots of new faces.

-Lets see the Oro-trained Ryu.
- Lets re-stylize Gouki, make him 7 feet tall like he was in the Alpha 2 art, and differenciate his model/sprites from Ryu/Ken.
-Lets see Teen Mel Masters (Ken's son) do his thing.
-Lets see Sakura finally come back as a serious martial artist. Someone to be feared.

4.) No custom combos. Every time you put a custom combo system in a game, it becomes that game's dominant force. Alpha 2, Alpha 3 V-ism, CvS2 A Groove, Yun's Genei Jin super in 3s... Just stop it!

5.) High damage. High damage is exciting. It allows for more wild comebacks and makes things more tense. Guilty Gear AC raised damage. Tekken has high damage. SFII series has very high damage. Bring it back! I want to be dead in 6-10 hard punches!

6.) No more gaining super meter for wiffing moves. This is the stupidest garbage I have ever seen. In the meter centric games, you force it to be even more meter centric by allowing players to do nothing offensive OR defensive and gain super meter to abuse.

and 7.) Don't nerf powerful characters. Improve weaker ones. Games that are FULL of BS are just more fun than ones that seem 'balanced' or 'fair'.

[mr. newbie]

i feel training mode could be improved. maybe incorporate some online stuff -ex. making a combo , sending it others and then being able to watch the inputs, or play it back frame by frame.

imagine how much faster we'd all improve if we could see exactly when to press things and the game could compare that to our inputs (sorta of like vf4).

[CptMunta]

Graphics/Art Direction

-Don't be afraid to go 3D if you haven't already, but keep in mind that the game still needs to feel "right" control-wise. The fastest way to tell whether a SF game's controls feel wrong is if the jumps are too high and floaty (ie. The SFEX series) and the movement is too stiff. This is still Street Fighter not Virtua Fighter or Tekken and it should move at a different pace.

^That's pretty much it right there. Everything else was gold in that post by the way.

What I liked most about the trailer was the look and feel of it. I hope they maintain that kind of feel throughout the art direction of the game (Same gritty palletes, same grindy music) It felt organic and exciting. I know it wasn't ingame but that feel is a good foundation to build on I reckon.

It's cool to see alot of people being openminded in the direction SF4 could take in this thread. Just because alot of people don't like playing 3D fighters doesn't mean that a full 3D, or even just 3D/2.5 stylised SF would suck.

This title has the potential of reviving the series and maybe even the interest of fighting games in general. I'd love for it to open alot of doors of interest for people that are new to the series.

Alot of pearls of wisdom in this thread. Gets me even more hyped than I am already :party:

[aktham]

My only suggestion is give the game to Arc Systems and let them make the game. Fans will give crazy ideas and it will turn into Mugen. Capcom is the publisher and any experienced 2D fighting developer should be great. I would love for ArcSys to be the developer personally, but no weird button configuration lol.

(1 more) For the love of god Capcom, release this for arcades first with plenty of beta testing before you think about consoles. Let the Japanese players discover overpowered tactics/moves and more importantly glitches (no game breaking glitches please). I hardly think they will get it right the first time, so allow for balancing online patches/revisions for PS3, XBOX 360 and PC.

[AdverseSolutions]

Here is what I posted over there.

gold.

and yes, listen to aktham. GIVE IT TO THE JAPANESE!!!!!!! THEY WILL FIND OUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT!! THEY KNOW!!!!!!!

[azis]

We want Street Fighter 4.

SF has a formula of success since its creation. Capcom should maintain tradition by making it 2D.

It is friendly for newcomers, it is classic for hardcores and/or OG. It IS Street Fighter.

As the name suggests, a new beginning may be something really new. We need new storyline, with the old but good characters. Like, we can have Bison andhis crew, seeking for Ryu and his fellas for help, cause there is a major threat. We can have a good presentation, with intro for every character, like SFA3. Plus, we can have the old dramas, like Vega vs Cammy, Ryu fighting Evil Ryu like in a dream, everything happening trough all the major issue, maybe a loss in the Universe ballance of powers?

Keep the good formula: You pick one character and take him to the final battle in a 2D playfield. Give us lots of backgrounds, good music, ballance, cool effects, supers, alpha counters, shoryukens and Sonic Booms, all that classic stuff, and Voilá! We will play it for the rest of our lives, and explore it to the deepest possibility.

Oh yeah: Add roll, safe falls, and that Darkstalkers feature that let you choose if you want to roll forward, backward or just get up faster or in the normal speed.

Do intense bug checking. Do not let such thing as Roll Cancel pass. That type of bugs changes everything.

And... support championships.

[The Lone Dragon]

Look back on what designs people liked and which they didn't (SF3's character designs bombed for the most part) and draw them based on that feedback. The public generally seems to prefer semi-modern looking "people" rather than freaks and weirdos.


But, isn't that a bit contradictory? SF3 desgins were much less "caricatured" and more modern than SF2 designs...

[Tea]

Co-Sign Kyokuji's post.
I'd like to reiterate that, when it's on a console, allow for it to be updated through patches or whatever. Also, like stated, i'd like to stress the importance of a roster of fun, deep characters numbering in the teens.
I also think it's important for it to be a 'fresh' experience. 2nd impact and 3rd strike play way differently than many other fighters and have a nice flow to them. Don't make it a3 plus 1 or 3rd strike plus 1.

I also understand the importance of mass appeal, and it's a shame sf3 characters didn't catch on sooner (think more people have come around to them), but i'd HATE for sf to have KOF or SC3 type designs. It'd be saddening.

Does anyone know who EXACTLY is developing it? It's not the EX or Fighting Jam guys, right? Have any of them worked on alpha or any sf3 or anything?

[The_Trigger]

I'm worried about Capcom asking for gamer's opinions on this. The majority of gamers now don't have any idea about what makes a good fighter. They just want lots of flash. It's going to be 1994 all over again with people asking for fatalities and random bullshit in Super Turbo. I'm tempted to make multiple accounts over on those boards just to try to seem like there are more than just 10 people who actually have an idea of what makes a good competitive fighter. But as far as ideas go, I think Keits and Kyokugi have it nailed down pretty well.

[laugh]

DO NOT MAKE IT LIKE TEKKEN/DOA/VF, these fighters are NOTHING like SF and their gameplay at the core is all about high/low GUESSING.

Make it like SF. SF2/alpha/cvs/sf3 they all felt like street fighter at least, although a few doesn't feel like SF, Capcom hopefully still remembers what constitutes that SF feel and mechanics.

[margalis]

As was stated earlier, you can never go home again. Part of what made SF2 was that when it came out it was NEW and AWESOME. Graphically it was awesome, gameplay wise it was awesome. At the time there were no serious competitive fighting games. It was just a mindblowing step up. Watching SF2 for the first time was "holy shit I've never seen anything like this before!!"

SF3...made some minor system tweaks and had more frames of animation, along with slow boring gameplay. Nobody was excited by that.

I used to joke with my friend that the next SF game should use foot pedals. The point was that it has to be something genuinely new. If it's another 2D fighter with the same combo system and the same moves it's going to just be slicing off a part of the same diminishing pie.

I guess the question is do you want to just make a sequel, or do you want to recapture the magic? To recapture the magic you need that freshness again. It has to be a new experience, not a tweak.

Edit: A lot of people in this thread are saying it needs to "feel like SF." What I want is to feel the way I did when I first played SF, and I know the other OG people here know what I mean by that. It's impossible to overstate how fucking awesome SF2 was compared to what was out at the time.

[1]

Well I think the game can still be fresh and have older characters that have been updated visually. I'm hoping that they return with newer charaters as well as old favorites like Sagat or Blanka. I can't comment much about any sort of fighting mechanics until we know if it's 3d or 2d. But it does have to stand out and feel like SF no matter what visual path they decide on.

[kurokuma]

here are some of my ideas.

1. don't rush, screw what the whinny folks say about waiting forever for a sequel and give us a game that doesn't have to have 52 different versions to fix shit in it that could have been fixed with more production time. in other words, Polish the shit outta this game capcom!!!



2. please have nothing to do with arc systems, i mean nothing. no programmers from the guilty gear team lending a helping hand, no head game designers from arc systems giving their opinion on the game, hell don't even let anyone from arc systems borrow a cup of sugar! i love guilty gear and all but fucking keep that shit outta our street fighter! in other words, keep our street fighter STREET FIGHTER! don't imitate anything except your own back log of god like (minus the Vs. Series) fighting games!

3. please please please have more than 10 fucking characters! hell more than 20 characters! if you are going to make a part 4 and you don't want to piss off too many people then don't take anything out, only put shit in and give us more options! don't take characters away, give us new ones and old ones back! i would love to see a street fighter that has every character from the previous ones even the characters from part 1. this way, if you choose to wait another hundred years to make a sequel, no one will complain as much because they will have so many options and good stuff right there in one game.

4. please don't make it a dream match or Vs. type game unless your going to give us the option to play that way. and even if you give us the option to play that way, lets keep it street fighters only. i really think ryu fighting mutants or along side mega man or resident evil characters is fucking retarded! keep it street fighter. also no stupid shit like assist and junk ass crap like that unless its an option as well. why the hell would any street fighter need another character to run in off screen and smack the guy their fighting for them? didn't ken say something about having a strict code of honor and not teaming up or jumpin in on other peoples fights or somethin in that street fighter V animated series? keep the game like that! no tag, or none of that, unless your going to give us the option to play that way or not.

5. its pretty easy to guess that if you choose one fighting system style for part 4 you are going to piss off a lot of people who like older or newer styles of street fighter, so why not just give us all the different street fighters playing styles right there in one game, but of course balanced the hell out. this way, people who say "aw man its nothing like super 2 turbo!" or "damn this game sucks, i miss 3rd strike!" can all just shut the fuck up. it would be great to know that you can play your zero 3 guy versus cvs 2 ryu or your super 2 turbo chun versus a third strike Alex or that your super meeter could be zero style or third strike choose one super plus ex moves style. if you want to make everyone happy, this is the only way.

6. also give us alllll the music from every version of street fighter ever produced. give us all the backgrounds ever produced as well. AND new ones! this is the supposed to be the next gen age of gaming. don't tell me we cant have a street fighter with all the backgrounds and music on our thousand dollar missile guiding change the way we think about gaming HD bluray playin systems!

7. random things i think would be cool is, instead of like 16 different colors for every character each button chooses that character with a different outfit on. hell even if the three punch buttons where one costume each and the kick buttons where three different colors for each would be cool, but please higher an artist who can keep with the street fighter style cause we don't want no falcoon type nightmare designs in our game. just look at kofmiras characters alternate costumes and you'll see what i mean.

or you could even add all the different styles of each character in the game to go along with something like selectable playing styles. like if you choose ryu, then you have to choose which street fighter ryu you want to play sf1 ryu, sf2 ryu and so on and so forth, but whatever ryu you choose will be that games version including the character art style and animation, even the portrait box! now when i say this i dont mean like mugen where a bunch of characters whoes art styles dont mix or fit with each other are fighting each other. but i mean have even the old school version of ryu redone by whatever artist you get to do the desighns. so we will still be able to see the older looking ryus vs. the younger versions all while still being new and fitting in with the art style of the game.

if you did make a game with this many things in it, being able to turn on or off anything in the game for tournaments and such like third strikes system direction only larger would be a must.

of course give us at least 5 or more new characters to go along with the entire cast of the previous street fighter games as well, but heres a secret, dont make too many new characters from scratch because 1. they are almost always outta place with the old characters (whats that fighting jam female characters name?) and two, most people don't like them and complain that you should have just put haggar in the damn game already. i agree with their complaint, there are so many kick ass characters already in the street fighter universe that could be added, such as more final fight characters. or better yet, can we get all the fighters to look like street fighters? i mean no little girls in gothic dresses n shit like that, i wanna see people who came to fight! even sakura looks like a fighter regardless of her wearing her school uniform.

and do i even have to say this?: NO 3D! if you own a famous ice cream shop that puts smiles on millions of peoples faces and then years down the road you get rid of it to sell donuts your pretty much fuckin yourself on that note. theres no reason to change such a famous 2d game into a 3d one...none at all. and especially not with how the EX series is regarded. screw the hd tv shit, give us a real hand drawn down to the title screen street fighter. why take up space with 3d when you could be putting in more characters,moves, n music.

as an artist it is my opinion that you cannot take a kick ass drawing and change it into 3d and have it look the same. but a hand drawn character can be put into a game and look exactly as they should.

damn i could go on and on and on and on. just take your time with the game and please make it the best it can be! i love capcom and i love street fighter more than any game so i want it to be awesome!

[Kyokuji]

SF3 desgins were much less "caricatured" and more modern than SF2 designs...

They were? People like Dudley, Urien, Gill, Ibuki, and Elena all look pretty caricatured to me. The british gentleman, the greco roman wrestler, the ninja, the tribal african woman. Most of the designs that were well received like Ibuki/Makoto were the ones that despite being stereotypical in some ways felt more human than guys like Oro and Necro and less bizarre than Urien who's walking around in a thong -- yes, I know it's traditional wrestling wear, but most people don't make that association. Just like Heihachi's sumo garb/diaper in Tekken 4.

In general, people want SF to be SF, not Darkstalkers.

[Shin Sho-oh-ken]

I agree with what most of the people here have said about the mechanics and all.

Just like people have said, since the title is "A New Beginning", it should feature pretty much all new characters with the addition Ryu and Ken of course, and perhaps a few classics. For instance, the "younger" ones. ex: Sakura, Karin, (anyone else who was young in the alpha series?)

There shouldn't be so many "weird" "mutantlike" characters either. It should be more like Street Fighter and not like Mortal Kombat or something where the character can control elements or something.

edit: Kyokuji beat me to it.

[n8archer_XI]

I don't mean to rain on any one perfectionist's parade, but since we have yet to see so much as any gameplay of the game, why are we already bitching about lag and 2D/3D animation (not specifically in this thread)? Who said there would be online play? Who said it couldn't possibly be in 4D? Let's wait for some concrete info before we start criticizing Capcom USA/Japan (it could be Capcom Europe)'s efforts...

[DanielLarusso]

This much we do know: Ken and Ryu are in it.

Whether this game is a "new beginning" or not, this is excellent news. No. 1, they're stars, they can help sell the game with their name recognition and marketability. No. 2, they provide instant access to people who would want to get into the game, as even the most casual of gamers have did a fireball/dragon punch or two in their day.

Same thought process behind SFIII, you say? So why didn't that move like gangbusters? Well, SFIII wasn't revolutionary, in the end, it was just another SF game. It was nowhere near the move from SF to SFII, which was a REVOLUTIONARY move.

If this move is REVOLUTIONARY ala SF to SFII, this game could potentially not only revive Street Fighter, but fighting games in general. As other developers would follow suit with whatever groundbreaking points Capcom has put into the game, just like they did in the early 90s.

The genre will never be what it was back then, but this game can take it off life support.

[Kyokuji]

Here's a few SaBrE posted that I liked:

Blind character select option. This is a subtle, yet effective option. Have an option to make your select screen cursor invisible so people dont know who you pick to prevent counter character picks.
Character customization is fun
i dont mean customizing character moves, damage, and what not. I'm only talking customizing their look. like alternate costumes and such

I think the game needs less universal sub-engines(custom combos, parries, groov, isms) and more focus on each character's individuality.
Next thing, PLEASE NO SPEED SETTINGS!!!!!!!!! Have the game designed for one speed only. Speed settings have caused massive problems in the past, especially super turbo.
For console, an option to DISABLE pausing in a 2player game

The people Capcom should be listening closest to are those people who know how to play these games at higher levels, but understand that Capcom needs to appeal to a mass market and that this could potentially open up new doors for the fighting game genre. What we need are more progressive suggestions that look past trying to include old game play mechanics or niche techniques.

[G.O.T]

The blind character selection is nice. innovative. *u*

[JubeiNinja69]

good feedback and ideas. lol we might as well design the game.

[Razorfist]

-With a subtitle like "A New Beginning", most of the characters should be new. Ryu and Ken are already in it obviously, and I know a lot of people want to see Chun-Li, Guy or Guile in it, but other than that, I'd recommend you use mostly new characters. Look back on what designs people liked and which they didn't (SF3's character designs bombed for the most part) and draw them based on that feedback. The public generally seems to prefer semi-modern looking "people" rather than freaks and weirdos.


I disagree. The main reason I think SF3 bombed was that there were interesting characters (such as Necro or Q) but they required such an obscene level of knowledge about the game's advanced techniques that to wield them with any degree of compitence was like scaling Everest. It wasn't until months, perhaps years into playing the game regularly that everything truly clicked and you became adept with those characters. I suppose that's just a long-winded way of saying that the game simply wasn't 'easily accessible', but it really goes beyond that. SF3 was an extremely poorly balanced game.

[Kyokuji]

PLEASE CAPCOM KEEP THE GAME IN 2D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
PLEASE CAPCOM KEEP THE GAME IN 2D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
PLEASE CAPCOM KEEP THE GAME IN 2D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
PLEASE CAPCOM KEEP THE GAME IN 2D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
PLEASE CAPCOM KEEP THE GAME IN 2D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
PLEASE CAPCOM KEEP THE GAME IN 2D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Less of this shit please people.

I disagree. The main reason I think SF3 bombed was that there were interesting characters (such as Necro or Q) but they required such an obscene level of knowledge about the game's advanced techniques that to wield them with any degree of compitence was like scaling Everest

I call BS on this. Most of the people I know who disliked SF3 on first glance (including myself) didn't know about nor did they give two shits about the learning curves of these characters. They just thought they looked retarded. Q hardly requires any kind of advanced execution anyway. He's very basic in the way he plays.

[poon]

-Change the logo. It's smudge tool madness.

-Put 85% of the innovation into the graphics engine. Blow every other fighter out of the water graphically/animation-wise, even if it means a slight upgrade to a 3S/EX hybrid fighting engine. Make that newskool money on pretties, keep oldskool players entertained with an established formula, and have a solid engine to tweak for SF5/4.2.

-Age the characters. This will be 3d, so you can always include classic looking alternate models really easily.

-Dress them like RE4, not KOF.

That's all I got. Thanks for listening and best of luck.

[CyberAkuma]

The most I could want, above character wishlists and such, is for this game to do more to try and do its own thing...and do it DAMN WELL.

I'm serious...the possibility of playing Alpha 3 or 3S in 3D doesn't interest me in the least. I hope SF4 can dare to be different, and be an outstanding title for it.

Oh, and for the game to, obviously, be released for all the major players (Arcade, 360, PC, PS3 and Wii). I know you love money, Capcom, and I'm sure the lot of us would be willing to give it to you; you just make sure that you put it where we can get it.

[Tea]

I think i read the whole thread, but perhaps I missed this.
I REALLY, like super art selection. I like the notion of a STAPLE technique that can be changed, thus affecting the whole character. I know this would be a step backwards (or in place), but I'd like to know peoples' thoughts on it. Plus it seems a bit simpler than having alternate types like ST/OG or Bust/Slash.
I'm also curious about Guard meters and Stun meters. Yes/No? Also, Major Counters?
More hit effects would be nice--especially when/where/how you hit them. In tekken 4, walls were actually done well, where a slightly worse move, would all of a sudden become better than the regular 'best option.' Street fighter already does better than 3d games because of the zoning/space control involved, but new hit effects could deepen this.
Maybe it's just me, but a penalty for teching would be nice, like 3 frames of vulnerability or something.
Finally I REALLY hope execution is tight and easy, and PLEASE have a solid buffer system. I hate it when I can't buffer, and in 3s, it seems like when I buffer a move, it will sometimes come out late.

UGH... I never meant for this to be so specific about the game engine especially without knowing anything.

The most I could want, above character wishlists and such, is for this game to do more to try and do its own thing...and do it DAMN WELL... ...I hope SF4 can dare to be different, and be an outstanding title for it.

Amen

[Lance Michaels]

I feel that this trailer is hinting at some original gameplay mechanics that (I hope) will surprise us. The fact that the intro is 3d almost implies that the real game will also be 3d.

VF, Tekken, those games can be as 'realistic' as they want. SF4 I trust will be very different from those games. How so? By making a 3-d fighter that's fun, and not so focused 'realism'. I am looking forward to good and satisfying hitting effects, glorious hitting sounds, and lots of innovation. Some really good minds were behind the previous SF versions, and they've done good so far, I got faith in them.

They've got to get the movement just right, it just can't FEEL like VF or Tekken. Yet it also can't feel like EX, either.

It can't look or feel like VF!!!!!!!!!!

[!WB!]

Whether its 2D or 3D is completely irrelevent to me. I'm just hoping for a good game.

[Spider-Dan]

(also posted to Capcom BBS)

Since the first day I saw Jet Set Radio, this thought has been sticking in my mind:

Street Fighter 4 should have 3D cel-shaded graphics.

But not just any cel-shaded graphics. Current existing technology should allow Capcom to make a game that looks exactly like you are playing the SF Animated Movie. And that would be a giant leap over anything else on the market, while having a distinct and unique look.

True 2D art is an ideological dead end. Technology has already reached the point where you can make a 3D model, display it in 2D @ 60FPS 100% of the time and have it be indistinguishable from a 2D sprite (if you so desire). When dealing with hand-drawn art, you will always run into the GG/KOF problem, where (in a seemingly arbitrary fashion) some moves have insanely smooth animation and others look like a poor slideshow. Only a full transition to 3D-based graphics can completely eliminate this issue, making all the moves animate fluidly and consistently.

Such a change would accomplish two things simultaneously:

1) You can draw in new gamers with amazing, revolutionary 3D graphics.
2) You can maintain a gameplay style that still sticks to SF's roots, emphasizing positioning and zoning over the high/low/mid mixups of other 3D fighters (whatever else you may say about SFEX, it has indisputably proven this point). Furthermore, taking another cue from SFEX, you can work in eye-candy 3D elements for things like teleports, throws, and supers without fundamentally changing the game to a Namco-style sidestepping contest.

While it's inspiring to see a game like SSF2THD be made, to invest in that type of solution as a long-term strategy is ill-advised. One of the primary (and deserved) criticisms of Capcom's fighting series is the reuse of old art; for example, Capcom Fighting Jam reuses art that's over 10 years old! In contrast, Namco's numerous 3D fighters have managed to use significantly changed graphics in nearly every outing.

It is only by switching to a 3D-based graphics engine that Capcom can afford to keep up with the Joneses in graphical firepower without breaking the bank by drawing and redrawing new art for each game. Fighting games are no longer the cash cow that they once were; you must adapt to survive and thrive.

[nf0x]

Lets be honest, parrying is the best game mechanic in any sf, whoever came up with that shit is a genius.

sf4 needs parry.

[The Lone Dragon]

They were? People like Dudley, Urien, Gill, Ibuki, and Elena all look pretty caricatured to me. The british gentleman, the greco roman wrestler, the ninja, the tribal african woman. Most of the designs that were well received like Ibuki/Makoto were the ones that despite being stereotypical in some ways felt more human than guys like Oro and Necro and less bizarre than Urien who's walking around in a thong -- yes, I know it's traditional wrestling wear, but most people don't make that association. Just like Heihachi's sumo garb/diaper in Tekken 4.


I definitely don't think SF3 "outfreaked" the original SF2 in terms of character design.
And, sure, there is a degree of caricature in SF3, but the difference is that in SF3 the designers seemed to acknowledge and CHALLENGE the caricature.

There was always that extra level of depth in their design. Dudley, the anti-Balrog...DESTROYED the typical "black boxer" caricature that plagued fighting games since the fall of Rome. Ibuki wasn't just "another stonefaced, cold-hearted ninja", she was a teenage girl, somewhat reluctant to be a ninja, trying to lead a normal life. Elena isn't just some "stereotypical African tribal character" you'd find in an offensive 50's movie...she's a frickin' medical student and otaku. Urien isn't just some big wrestler type dude wearing a diaper...he some genetically engineered being who wears expensive suits and sunglasses while harboring serious inferiority issues.

Even the "freaks" have a bit more meat to them; Necro has his little girlfriend whose name totally escapes me right now...Q has the whole "what the heck am I and why am I maybe in Ken's background" mystery thing going.

Depth.

On the other hand, old-school SF2 characters could be summed up with less effort: Blanka: beast man. Dhalsim: stereotypical Indian Yogi. Guile: soldier. Chun-li: "The girl". And, back in the day, that's really all we could say about them. No depth, no mystery. And, that might have been enough then.

Nowadays, some 15 - 20 years later, I'd imagine that gaming audiences want a bit more depth, thought, and intrigue invested in their characters design.

My recommendation for Capcom is to keep designing character like those in SF3. Characters with internal tension and mold-breaking power. The Makotos...The Dudleys...The Elenas...the half-naked, diaper wearing men THAT JUST DON'T CARE. Make interesting characters that have more to them than a phrase: "The beast guy" or "the Wrestler" or "the kick-boxer"...

Jazz it up.


In general, people want SF to be SF, not Darkstalkers.

I dunno...for a 2D game, GG has developed a respectable following in the states (i.e. non-hardcore people actually know what it is)...and there's NOTHING normal about those characters. They're as freaky as they come.

However, they have depth. And, that makes all the difference.

[Flip Ninja]

I realize this isn't the place to put it, but the SF3 characters are just as typical as the SF2 ones, they're just picking from a completely different set of cliches and stereotypes. Just my opinion mang.

Anyways. I could care less about character design. Caring about storylines and characters has always seemed more like the SNK fan's domain, SF is all about competitive fighting games and the community, so I really want to see more emphasis on gameplay. For God's SAKE please include a tournament setting! At EVOWEST, I was always worried about the crowd just getting bored during the whole button setting routine that had to happen in between rounds. Surely there's something that can be done for this, like tournament settings with player profiles?

Also, the SSBM threads have been showing me just how big this can be. We get an SF once every damn decade, so hopefully we'll get something to chew on in the meantime. I expect more out of Capcom, regardless of the laziness of the past, I can really see alternate costumes and stages and music.

I know those are 2 contradicting points, but really, solid gameplay with extras would be awesome.

[Jonathan Ingram]

I can only hope that the game keeps to the Street Fighter feel and DOESN'T play like the GGXX inspired fighters that have come out recently. Don't get me wrong, I like those games, but this is Street Fighter; it would be blasphemous for the main series to go that route.

[Kyokuji]

and there's NOTHING normal about those characters. They're as freaky as they come.

Yes, but Guilty Gear isn't Street Fighter. There are entirely different expectations, and despite what you say, the majority of people despised the SF3 designs and they cited the exact reason that I listed. Too many mutant or freakish looking characters that didn't feel like they belonged in a SF game.

[Wellman]

(also posted to Capcom BBS)

Since the first day I saw Jet Set Radio, this thought has been sticking in my mind:

Street Fighter 4 should have 3D cel-shaded graphics.

But not just any cel-shaded graphics. Current existing technology should allow Capcom to make a game that looks exactly like you are playing the SF Animated Movie. And that would be a giant leap over anything else on the market, while having a distinct and unique look.

True 2D art is an ideological dead end. Technology has already reached the point where you can make a 3D model, display it in 2D @ 60FPS 100% of the time and have it be indistinguishable from a 2D sprite (if you so desire). When dealing with hand-drawn art, you will always run into the GG/KOF problem, where (in a seemingly arbitrary fashion) some moves have insanely smooth animation and others look like a poor slideshow. Only a full transition to 3D-based graphics can completely eliminate this issue, making all the moves animate fluidly and consistently.

Such a change would accomplish two things simultaneously:

1) You can draw in new gamers with amazing, revolutionary 3D graphics.
2) You can maintain a gameplay style that still sticks to SF's roots, emphasizing positioning and zoning over the high/low/mid mixups of other 3D fighters (whatever else you may say about SFEX, it has indisputably proven this point). Furthermore, taking another cue from SFEX, you can work in eye-candy 3D elements for things like teleports, throws, and supers without fundamentally changing the game to a Namco-style sidestepping contest.

While it's inspiring to see a game like SSF2THD be made, to invest in that type of solution as a long-term strategy is ill-advised. One of the primary (and deserved) criticisms of Capcom's fighting series is the reuse of old art; for example, Capcom Fighting Jam reuses art that's over 10 years old! In contrast, Namco's numerous 3D fighters have managed to use significantly changed graphics in nearly every outing.

It is only by switching to a 3D-based graphics engine that Capcom can afford to keep up with the Joneses in graphical firepower without breaking the bank by drawing and redrawing new art for each game. Fighting games are no longer the cash cow that they once were; you must adapt to survive and thrive.


Eh, of all the possible Cel shading techniques, I honestly think something along the lines of the art style in Killer 7 or No More Heroes would make for a great SF game, sort of gritty, leaves room for unrealistic stuff and is just beautiful if executed properly.

[The Lone Dragon]

Anyways. I could care less about character design. Caring about storylines and characters has always seemed more like the SNK fan's domain, SF is all about competitive fighting games and the community, so I really want to see more emphasis on gameplay.

Sorry to use a cliche...but character design and presentation get people in the door...gameplay makes 'em stay...

You have to have good character design (which is driven by storylines), otherwise the average joe isn't going to pick your game over the hundreds of others...

I mean, we've seen how asthetics and appearance can incite emotion...look at how everyone has been reacting to the stylized trailer.

So, stoylines aren't just for the hardcore...they indirectly define the direction of the entire game for EVERYBODY. Capcom better recognize that...

[MeelJ]

(also posted to Capcom BBS)

Since the first day I saw Jet Set Radio, this thought has been sticking in my mind:

Street Fighter 4 should have 3D cel-shaded graphics.



I thought about this as well. But I was thinking more on the lines of Okami.

http://www.capcom.com/okami/

I still would rather have 2-D sprites, but they would have to look amazing. I'll settle for the next best thing.

[The Lone Dragon]

Yes, but Guilty Gear isn't Street Fighter. There are entirely different expectations, and despite what you say, the majority of people despised the SF3 designs and they cited the exact reason that I listed. Too many mutant or freakish looking characters that didn't feel like they belonged in a SF game.

Well, your sources have the right to cite whatever reasons they want, I suppose...it's their opinion. I'm sure there are many people here and elsewhere, who enjoyed SF3's character design.

However, objectively, I have to question why SF3 even has this reputation of being "freakish" and "mutanty", when there are only like 2 or 3 of them in a roster of 19. What, Necro, Twelve, maybe Q, maybe Gill? If Urien is a freak, then so was Zangief. And, Oro is an old man, that's all. Heck, all these guys were simply throwbacks to the Dhalsims, Blankas, Vegas, and Bisons of the past.

If we want to avoid "freak" and "mutants" for fear of alienating potential fans (a theory I'm not so sold on), what does this mean for SF4? Do we really want to limit the types of new characters we see? Do we merely want more of the same, with only subtle evolutions? I'm asking y'all.

If we want to revolutionize the genre again, my suggestion is to be free. Be innovative. Ten years after SF3, I personally think the public can handle a little weirdness.

[Flip Ninja]

Sorry to use a cliche...but character design and presentation get people in the door...gameplay makes 'em stay...

You have to have good character design (which is driven by storylines), otherwise the average joe isn't going to pick your game over the hundreds of others...

I mean, we've seen how asthetics and appearance can incite emotion...look at how everyone has been reacting to the stylized trailer.

So, stoylines aren't just for the hardcore...they indirectly define the direction of the entire game for EVERYBODY. Capcom better recognize that...

I think the words "Street Fighter 4" is sufficient to getting people in the door.

And I was just saying things from my point of view, which is that of someone that plays fighting games. I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I really don't care about the presentation of the game and as far as videogames go, fighting games don't really rely on story as much as any other genre. Presentation a little more, but it's still marginal. Gameplay is still where I think the work's gotta go into.

Also, Marvel vs Capcom 2 evidently has a story that involves cacti and pirates or something?

[MeelJ]

Sorry to use a cliche...but character design and presentation get people in the door...gameplay makes 'em stay...

You have to have good character design (which is driven by storylines), otherwise the average joe isn't going to pick your game over the hundreds of others...

I mean, we've seen how asthetics and appearance can incite emotion...look at how everyone has been reacting to the stylized trailer.

So, stoylines aren't just for the hardcore...they indirectly define the direction of the entire game for EVERYBODY. Capcom better recognize that...

I agree with the first thing you said. But the latter is not true. Especially not for a fighting game. Presentation will make you money. Some of the worst movies make a lot of money, because they look appealing to the average eye. Presentation is the key, not story. Followed by game play.

To be honest, I have no idea what Street Fighter is really about. A story definitely doesn't hurt, and a great one (Metal Gear Solid) can make the game much more enjoyful and giving a gamer more of an incentive to finish. But it's not needed for Street Fighter or any other fighting game for that matter.

[deci]

2D.

it's simply not street fighter if it is 3D.

and we already have virtual fighter, tekken, and soul calibur.
we need a new 2D game.

please for the love of god make it 2D.

[str[e]ak]

left my two cents in the thread. :tup:

[Doc Holliday]

Dropped my ideas. A lot of the same stuff that's been echoed here. Just one more voice heard is all I care about. Here's my post:

(Oh, and here's to me having to go back through and censor my post on the site because I didn't realize "ass" was a swear word)

Really, I don't know what there is to say that probably hasn't already been said except: Listen to the fans. The ones that know what they are talking about and know the difference between fluff and substance. Personally, I'm greatful you guys are taking our suggestions into consideration. I normally post on SRK but when I saw this opportunity, I, like many SRKers, signed up to these forums, just today, just to have our voices heard. Hopefully, that gives you an idea of what kind of clientele you're dealing with.

As far as SF4 goes:

Gameplay- Obviously the most important aspect to many. I prefer SF3 engine over the ST engine by a mile. There are a lot of people that feel as I do, and there are those that don't. In fact, I'd say it's divded in half when you don't count all the VS games and Alphas. I guess the only thing that I can say about it is to go two different ways: Go with the tried and true methods of the past SFs and create SF4 with options at the select screen to choose different engines/sub-engines a' la CvS2. Personally, I'd like to see that. I love parrying. Some people cry about it. This is a way around the bitching. That way, theoretically, everyone should be happy.

The other way to go is to build a new engine from the ground up. I'm not going to lie, it could be risky just because you could potentially alienate fans of the old school engines. Then again, you could gain new favor with them because it could be something new and extremely exciting. Make sure you put most of your work into this substance so as not to screw it up.

Whatever you choose, please make sure the game is balanced and isn't broken as hell like 3S was. I love 3S, but it was easy to see that the game was run by 3 different characters. The same 3 that would constantly win tourney's. No good. There's no diversity when you're using 3 out of 20 characters.

And test out the game thoroughly before the release. Test the hell out of it for bugs, glitches, and balance that would affect the game in a negative way. Send it over to Japan like a few people have said or give it to some of the top players over here. Guaranteed they'll all pick it apart and find out what needs to be changed. Very uncool to release a half a dozen versions of the same game.


2D vs 3D Graphics/Gameplay- Another big one, at least to me. I grew up with the original SF2. All I, and many others, know is 2D graphics and gameplay. I would HEAVILY PREFER at the very least 2D gameplay. SF only works in that mode. You can't make SF into a Tekken and turn it into slo-mo, sidestepfest 2008. That's garbage. If people want a 3D game, they have Tekken, DOA, VF, SC, and others. We don't need that crap. We need a fast 2D game that's built on speed, zoning, poking, footsies, positioning, etc. Really, that's all I ask for. Keep SF with the same feel. That's all.

Graphic-wise, I would love to see high def sprites with SF3 animation fluidity but I realize that probably isn't the best course to go since ST:HD is already in the works. Honestly, the graphics used in the trailer kicked a lot of cherries and something to that effect could be used. Some type of graphics with a cell shaded, 3D look to it would be absolutely fine as long as it played like SF.


Characters- As far as characters go, we don't need 60+ characters at the expense of crappy gameplay. I would much rather see the work go into the engine. If you can fit a ridiculous amount of characters and not have the gameplay suffer for it, go for it. Otherwise, I'd say around 20-25 is a fair number. And mix it up. One thing that scares me is that with the tagline "A New Beginning", that leads me to believe that we're going to get Ryu and Ken, then an onslaught of nothing but new characters. New characters are fine but mix in some oldschoolers as well.

And don't put nutjob weirdasses in there like Necro or Twelve. That's "MK"ish. Keep it to realistic people.


Music- Don't have much to say about this. Capcom has always done a decent job with the tunes in my eyes. Just keep it up.


Online Play- Face it. Arcades are dead in America. It's been that way for a number of years and it's a crappy reality to face because a lot of the magic that was felt while playing a competitive fighting game like SF was because of the arcade environment. That's magic is gone thanks to consoles. If this going to be a console only game (which I'm assuming will be), make sure that there is netplay ability hooked into it. And not some half-assed netplay, something good like GGPO.net. This site is able to rock out matches without it turning into a laggy POS. The slightest delays in timing because of lag can ruin matches for people not to mention lag and hiccups are ridiculously annoying and capable of ruining the experience.

You guys really need to take the online component seriously. It's the next best thing to the arcade experience that you can get and it is what will rope in new players and keep the faithfuls coming back for more. Don't screw that up. Make sure you do it right.

That's about all I can think of right now. Good luck guys and looking forward to next year.

[B.L. Pancho]

One thing Id like to say is I wouldn't worry TOO much about what the scrubs are saying right now. Primarily because they are saying shit that NOBODY will take seriously. Most of their input doesn't make for good gameplay, Im sure that the team behind this game already has a pretty good Idea where it wants to go with this and Im sure that vision includes a great deal of respect for the competitive pedigree in Street Fighters roots. Let's all have some faith.

H82: Dissing Twelve and Necro was a bit excessive.

[G.O.T]

Spider-Dan, Polarity, inkblot, and Sabre made the most sensible suggestions. Here is what I put on the site:

Casual=Money
Presentation, Gameplay, Replayability, Style is key.
Pros of the franchise:
-Street Fighter II was new and most innovative game for the time of the early 90s.
-Ryu and Ken are household names in the industry.
-Snes Street Fighter II sold 12M or more I think at release.
-Casual loved the gameplay, but mostly the graphics.
-Deep gameplay engine kept hardcore fans entertained for over a decade.
-It was very accessible game on every popular system.

Cons of the series:
-Eventually the masses lost interest due to future bigger more innovative games. Rehashes and Patches of SFII sold less than the original SFII.
-Street Fighter III was one of your best creations but the series had lost a lot of it's luster due to the casual fans tiring of the same formula. Releasing it lost to bigger games. So you lost money trying to do something new at the wrong time.

My opinions for new gamers and old school:
-More Interactive storyline (Endless replayability of 1 player experience)
-Graphics should be 2.5 or 3-D you won't attract unless up to date on specs.
-Every character should be extremely good/competent.
-DO YOUR BEST ON THIS ONE ALONE DONT DO PATCHES.
-Online needs the best in netcoding ala GGPO. Also Multi-Platform.
-Multiplayer experience should also have endless replayability. As in customizable game options for the 2-player just something that will surprise. Exp. Kid mode, Tag Mode, EO Mode (CvS2 EO), mini games, or engine customizing. Like if it played old school from the default settings you could set it to new style settings. Chain combos, cinema attacks or etc.
-Learn the positives/negatives of: Rival Schools, Street Fighter EX, and other 3-D fighters you produced to see the mistakes.
-The fighting engine should be exactly like it was in the trailer, but at the very same it should play like a hybrid of the gameplay engine that all of your 2d fighters played as that so many of us loved and came back for. Street Fighter, Marvel series. Hybrid of Both styles.

Thank you. I hope this rocks. Ken rules all.http://www.capcom.com/BBS/images/smilies/smile.gif http://www.capcom.com/BBS/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Doc Holliday]

H82: Dissing Twelve and Necro was a bit excessive.

Maybe I should rephrase because someone else already said it better than me. In the hands of a competetive player, Necro is a bitch. No qualms about that. What someone else said earlier and the way I should've said it is that when people were first starting to play SF3, they were used to humans fighting it out (with the exception of Blanka), not weird characters like, Necro, Twelve, and Q. Hell, a lot of the cast looked fairly eccentric if you were used to SF2. I think many of the character put people off until they figured out they could be used effectively if you knew how. That clarify it?

[B.L. Pancho]

No no I wasn't demanding an explanation or anything please don't feel that way. I just thought you were being a bit harsh thas all. This means a lot to all of us so Im just making sure we all say the right things. Somebody else said that SFIII was a failure because people were tired of the formula which I don't find true at all. This is a critical thread and all, that's what I mean =)

[DevilJin 01]

If this is only being made by Capcom USA we are screwed. Unless they're getting taught lessons on how to make a good fighting game. If Capcom Japan is behind this I think we can just sit on the fact that it'll at least be decent.

[The Mullah]

i can't post there as the site is still down.

I hope they use cel shaded 3d like in the trailer, like i said before, it looks great and casual gamers don' understand the difference between 3d and 2d gameplay, they only see a difference if it's sprites vs 3d models. They'll play whatever looks flashy and gets hyped in the magazines.

as for character rosters, people seem to be aksing for lots of characters, i can only imagine this is a huge pain in the ass to make a reality. I'd prefer a smaller cast, but only because it increases thel ikelihood of the characters being more fleshed out and useable.

i'd rather have new characters, but don't count out the 'oh cool i remember 'x'' factor. casual gamers would get hyped seeing a handful of the original world warriors return. None of my workmates play sf but they all know the original characters, and i work in a bank. honda, sagat, guile et al do rock.

gameplay? i imagine our suggestions mean nothing, but for srk discussion i'd rather have no parry, or have it take full damage.

[4649]

whenever the actual thread comes back up, if it does, i have this to say.

"when introducing a fighting game to an audience there's always two very specific areas of interaction.

first one: first impression.

the average first impression when you meet a new person in life is based on 55% body language, about 38% vocal tone and intonation, and approximately 7% percent of their actual words / content they introduce. also, said first impression will lead the person to form an opinion of the newcomer in approximately 7 seconds of interaction.

now when you translate that to how someone interprets a video game these days ( it's of course give and take for everyone, because some video game fans are a lot more fickle than others ), that's not a very long time for someone to really encapsulate the entirety of what makes your game special. therefore, the first impression of this newcomer to the franchise, to make a special impact, will probably impact people who have never heard of or actually played Street Fighter on several different levels.

first level being body language; it has to MOVE a certain way. not even necessarily graphics; you're already aware that there's going to be an argument for 2.5d versus 3D, and I could diluge my fears here about the dangers of going 3D versus a 2.5d SFEX3-like incarnation but i'll let someone else do that ( although I must say the idea of a Battle Fantasia / Rumble Fish 2 - style visual homage to the classic gameplay updated for the new era would be fantastic ). fact of the matter is, the look has to be a smooth, fluid movement that pays homage to the soul of the franchise. when Ken does a Shoryuken, in any game, you WINCE; it looks like it HURTS, and it looks, visually streamlined in such a fashion that it could in theory be an actual technique, existent in reality, modified to nigh-superhuman aria. when Ryu does a Hadouken, he doesn't just fire it from his hand like a Megaman 1 NES pellet. in other words, what i'm saying is that if there isn't a familiar SOUL about the movement and action in the game - and this of course translates to newer characters, as there is a delicate balance with newcomers that will make series veterans wary as to whether or not they feel accurate enough in accordance with the series' soul to "belong".

vocal tone and intonation; how the game speaks to the interpreter through sound. the SF series has always had very classic music; however, I can remember many an instance where very specific themes throughout Capcom's history have presented less-than-paletable musical sessions. immediately flooding to mind is Marvel VS Capcom 2's entire soundtrack; i've never been sure where the jazz / love song inspiration came from as well as the belief that it was a perfect fit for a game about colossal, cosmic beings dueling for galactic supremacy. also Street Fighter III 3rd Strike's Kenya background for Elena's "Beats In My Head" - pleasing at first, the repetition of the titular theme, for players to be constantly exposed to it, the annoyance level is almost grandiose at times. Capcom Fighting Jam's songs feel almost incomplete, save for Ingrid's vocal theme which was really only produced in arcade mode for some reason ( although, to be honest, compared to most of the other games the entirety of CFJ feels incomplete ). to drive the point though, what the music cannot be is repetitious, unfitting, alien, phoned in. what the music should be is- classic ( preservation of the classic SF themes would be much appreciated, much like how in CVS1 we got the sweet remixed version of Ryu's theme and in CVS2 you were given an option to keep the older themes on certain stages ), innovative though applicable, heart pumping yet drama invoking - these are all things that are going to make that first seven second impression crucial.

as for the remaining 7%, actual content ( this is your second area of interaction - the depth, the meat and potatoes, etc. ); I am aware that these days, tournament play for fighting games is actually receiving a bit of a bad reputation in the US among gamers for "taking all the fun out of it", but Street Fighter is a title with such a rich history, such a spirit and background rooted in the arcades that it begs the question among those who dwell within it of "who is better? nay, who is the best?". and of course the only real way to decide that is to provide as wide as possible a method for everyone interested in the game to play it against each other. online play with worldwide rankings, company support for offline major tournaments - these are things that the audience is going to want on every level, whether it's at a comic book or anime convention to get people to go, "hey, isn't that....? hey that looks really cool, I should go buy that", or at Tougeki Super Battle Opera, or at Evolution in the US with the best players in the world, the game is going to going to have to provoke the competitive soul in an era of gaming where the competitive soul is dying. but i'm getting ahead of myself- game balance WILL make or break this game's worldwide release. and i'm sure you'll probably hear that a multitude of times, but you have the advantage of having educated consumers ONHAND. times are changing, and with the web's global community SF4 could be demo'ed over Xbox Live Arcade and PSN while simultaneously location tested at Japan's major arcades to get the best players who know fighting game systems inside out to give quality feedback. Balance issues and broken game mechanics occur a vast amount of time because there's no interaction between developer and the players of the community who spend the most time actually playing the game. so while the actual inherent content of the game in terms of sales almost pales in comparison to the fact that the name alone will probable move units, it would be a moral crime against gamers worldwide to release this title with glitches, infinites, absurdly overpowered characters ( now don't get me wrong; we like the fun of figuring out high damage techniques, and every Street Fighter game has tiers, but there's a thin line between a top / god tier character and a walking win button ), so playtesting and quality assurance plays a MAJOR factor; that 7 percent really doesn't do itself justice in averages.

so, to sum up; i've spent a LOT of time in my life playing Street Fighter. to be specific, i must have been 11 when I first put quarters in to the machine, grabbed the six button stick and started mashing out fireballs in SF2 Champion Edition. now here, almost fifteen years later, i say to you that this is not necessarily a game release so much as a reintroduction to an old, longlost friend. i'm sure that friend will look different, maybe talk a bit different to change with the times, updated his slang, be wearing some new clothes. but it's up to you to determine; does that person remember all the good times, that made him what he is today? where is he headed with his future?

thanks for reading."

[shinblanka]

Here's the list I posted in that thread:

As someone who plays 2D/3D fighters on a competitive level, but still understands the need for mass market appeal, I've compiled a list.
Assuming the developers are actually reading this thread, I'll lay this out so that it's easy to draw out the main points:

Characters

-With a subtitle like "A New Beginning", most of the characters should be new. Ryu and Ken are already in it obviously, and I know a lot of people want to see Chun-Li, Guy or Guile in it, but other than that, I'd recommend you use mostly new characters. Look back on what designs people liked and which they didn't (SF3's character designs bombed for the most part) and draw them based on that feedback. The public generally seems to prefer semi-modern looking "people" rather than freaks and weirdos.

-Concentrate on creating a balanced roster of unique characters rather than jamming as many in as possible. I'd rather see 12-16 well made characters than 35 poorly balanced ones.

-If you're going to have a joke/comical character, don't make them suck. You should want to laugh at the character, not the person playing them.

-Be very careful when creating "user friendly" characters. Chun-li in 3rd Strike is a good example of how an easy to use character can end up being too strong, and negatively effect both the way the game looks and plays at tournaments.

-Understand that making a character big and slow is a big disadvantage and they need something to help make up for their large hitbox and lack of mobility. All too often, grapplers and other large characters are low-bottom tier.

-Make sure you carefully weigh a character's strengths in relation to the others. Looking at someone like Twelve and then Ken in 3rd Strike is confusing on a balance level.

(I know I'm being repetitive in this section, but poor balance will kill a fighter's longevity if it's the same 2-4 characters all the time).

Online

-If you're planning to go online with the title, consider releasing balance patches, but be careful of what you remove. Sometimes glitches or unintended move properties add to a game rather than detract from it. This also allows you to sidestep the negative stigma that comes from releasing multiple pay-for revisions of a game.

-Make sure the netcode is solid. In fighting games, a single millisecond of lag can often mean the difference between a win or a loss. Gamers should be able to play one another cross country without significant delay. All the ladder rankings and match-making systems in the world are useless if it doesn't run smoothly.

-If there's an overpowered boss character of some sort, for god's sake, don't allow them online.

Stages

-If there is an arcade release, include a stage select in the VS mode. Nothing is more irritating than seeing the same stages/hearing the same songs over and over again if only a few characters are chosen competitively.

-Interactive environments can have a huge effect on the game's balance. Tekken 4 was so badly broken by wall combos and uneven surfaces it that Namco abandoned the latter completely for the next game. If you're going to have stage interactivity, make it integral to the way the game plays rather than throwing it in as an afterthought because that will likely break the game. The safer approach is just to have the interactivity on a purely cosmetic level.

Gameplay

-It should play like its own game rather than like the Alpha series or the SF3 series. Think carefully about how things like alpha counters, custom combos and parries changed the game system positively and negatively and plan accordingly.

-Concentrate on making it a good VS fighter first and worry about including extras and single player incentives after. Extras and un-lockables should complement a solid fighting engine, not the other way around. Don't fall in to the MK: Armageddon trap.

-Play test the game thoroughly. Fighters can easily end up being broken if they're not examined in-depth before release. Look for things like infinites, abusable loops, kara-cancelling type glitches, etc.

New Players

-One of the biggest issues with modern fighters is that they make no real effort to ease new players in. Some sort of tutorial/lesson mode would be greatly helpful to people trying to learn the game. Obviously, you can't account for high level stuff that hasn't been discovered yet, but just teaching people the fundamentals can go a long way. Emphasize tactics as well as execution/combos.

Graphics/Art Direction

-Don't be afraid to go 3D if you haven't already, but keep in mind that the game still needs to feel "right" control-wise. The fastest way to tell whether a SF game's controls feel wrong is if the jumps are too high and floaty (ie. The SFEX series) and the movement is too stiff. This is still Street Fighter not Virtua Fighter or Tekken and it should move at a different pace.

Marketing

-Hype the game up online. Release little tidbits of information regularly to keep the game fresh in people's minds. Too often, companies will go months or even a year without saying anything and people will start to forget about the game or even doubt that it's going to be released in good form. Games like Smash Bros. Brawl have kept people interested through small, regular releases of new characters and content.

Wow, you covered damn near everything I was thinking about. They may want to hire you.

[BEWD]

I went over there and threw my hat in there as well.(Metsudragon) I wasn't even gonna pretend I knew anything great about the technical stuff and what not, so I suggested the more intelligible players should be asked about that, as well as having expert players test the game.

Other then a strenuously tested and refined game system, I also wanted to see some of SF's loose ends tied up, it's been over 10 years and we still don't know who won SF2 before Gouki/Akuma whacked Dictator <_<

[Kyokuji]

Wow, you covered damn near everything I was thinking about. They may want to hire you.
Ha, I wish.

[Taito]

Yeah, site's down so I'll post here.


This really has to be what Rocky Balboa/Rocky VI was for Stallone.. because honestly, SF is the flagship of an era that came and went, and while the mainstream audience is paying attention, they will only give a shit if SFIV knocks it out the park the first time.

- I hope the game goes all out with fanservice and easter eggs. My favorite game used to be Samurai Shodown II because it was packed with multiple taunts, several win poses, different voices for every situation, and lots of random events like Kim Kaphwan running in the background. I haven't seen another fighter with that level of personality ever since.. SF Alpha 2 was close. I want to see stuff like that as long as it doesn't distract from the overall mood of the game. Also, if the roster is wiped clean again (as I hope it will), the game will still be full of familiar elements of the past series that SF fans can appreciate.

- Make the backgrounds personalized for each character. Make it feel like you're stepping in his house to ruin his shit. Like the House of Blue Leaves in Kill Bill. I know it's Street Fighter, but fighting in a random street just doesn't feel as good as beating Bison in his compound. Another thing I liked about Samurai Shodown II-- the duel atmosphere.

- The music should sound anthemic but hard-hitting. Like the tunes from SF2 (that soundtrack was composed really well, and I don't think that's nostalgia talking) mixed with SFA3's soundtrack. 3rd Strike had some great music but maybe they weren't as memorable as SF2.

- Gill was lacking as far as design goes (moveset- and story-wise he was fine for a final boss, but he just looked wrong). Make the final boss in IV as memorable as Sagat and Dictator.

- I can't stress enough how important hit impact can be on the playing experience. It's really satisfying, after your opponent blocks and parries you over and over, a hit finally connects.. it should sounds like a small bomb went off, sending your opponent's character reeling. So, audio and hit impact that's more like SF3 and less like ST.

- I can't think of an alternative, but I'd like meters done away with. If that's not possible, then just not so many. Block meter, dizzy meter, etc.. it's too much. 3D fighters get along just fine with no meters, so why do 2D fighters require like 8 bars onscreen?

- Find a way to keep everyone playing the same version of the game. No version update that doesn't get full distribution and screws up strategies in high-level competition. After the home version is out, talk with the pro players on what should be fixed, or visit forums like these for feedback, then release a patch that everyone can easily update. That should really be the future of fighters, right behind online play (that's lag-free).

- SF3 got it right by flushing older characters, and I hope the tradition continues in IV. But I think one or two returning characters from past SF games would be satisfying.

- If the graphics are 2.5D like the trailer, I'd really like the camera to be fixed like it's a 2D game. The only 3D in the game that would sit well with me are the character models. I'm not anti-3D, but a full 3D SF is going to look a lot like Tekken.. and we already have Tekken.. so why compete with them when there's nothing wrong with SF gameplay and presentation? I just hope it plays like Street Fighter, no matter how the gameplay is approached.

- I'd like to see character personalizing, although not on the level of VF/Tekken. Like CvS2's system-- color and name edit are good enough without going overboard. Also if the game is 3D I'd rather not see alternate costumes. Again, I think it's very important for SF to keep its identity instead of borrowing from other fighters.

- I kind of hope the title changes. III was 'A new generation of Street Fighters'.. now it's 'A new beginning'.. again? And Ryu and Ken are still in it, so it's not exactly new, is it? Doesn't sound appropriate (unless there's more to the story).

[Nick T.]

Ok, im going to post here and I plan to add alot of stuff periodically and I hope that some(and I know not all) will agree on some of these aspects.

Stages:

- A lot of the old (which made the game good) with a touch of the new -

Put in some of the classic old stages but update them for 2008.

For example..
Since Alex's stage is in NY, update it so that they fight in like time square on 42nd street, or by WTC or something.
Graphically enhanced with visual appeal that not overdone.

- Camera Angles -

Now i'm not talking about 3d at all, as camera angles in 3d are constant.
Going back to the Alex stage example, say you have Ken and Alex fighting in time square, and Ken throws Alex with say his P throw from cvs2( only example) where he throws to the front but kinda to the side, have Alex hit the ground, and at that moment, instead of him just recovering, have the camera angle change so that instead of facing the time square billboard, its in time square but facing downtown (wtc, whatever). Instant camera angle change depending on how the opponents falls, but in a 2d environment.

- Crashing boxes and barrels -

I think the game needs this old touch back. BUT, have this action do no damage to the character. Just a fun, graphical tidbit.

- Random ish stuff -

*Make a parking lot stage for gags "Lets play SF4, in the parking lot" Watson to TFGM before evo 2k6.

*Make a stage in Vegas with evolution signs posted at a casino or something.
Like Boxer stage 2008 or something.

I'll add more later. Thanks.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Kyokuji, Keits, Spider-Dan, Sabre, and Ponder all have great suggestions I mostly agree with.

Personally, I would love to see a 3-D game where projectiles remain a major factor. The Naruto fighters on the Gamecube actually accomplished this somewhat, by giving projectiles overpowered properties - instantly appearing above the opponent and dropping, the ability to "freeze" them in place and have them home in on the opponent upon release, etc. This isn't really traditional space control, however, and I'm not so sure how that could be accomplished in 3-D - maybe tracking in certain directions?

My man point being - aim for a completely new gameplay system!

One very important thing I will suggest: Try to stay away from the anime style and other "weird" designs! This was where Mortal Kombat stole SF's thunder back in the day, and it's why Tekken has more mainstream appeal than the other major tournament games - the characters in those series just look cool to Western audiences. Even a large portion of the tournament scene hates the anime look - do you think the casual audience would be any more receptive?

Thank you very much,
Josh.

[Wellman]

Maybe I should rephrase because someone else already said it better than me. In the hands of a competetive player, Necro is a bitch. No qualms about that. What someone else said earlier and the way I should've said it is that when people were first starting to play SF3, they were used to humans fighting it out (with the exception of Blanka), not weird characters like, Necro, Twelve, and Q. Hell, a lot of the cast looked fairly eccentric if you were used to SF2. I think many of the character put people off until they figured out they could be used effectively if you knew how. That clarify it?

Hate to jump in like this but I just had to say something.

The character designs of SF3 aren't all that shocking if you had been following Capcom's fighting games over the years. Compare the designs of SF1 fighters to SF2, Blanka, Dhalsim, E. Honda and even Vega to a degree were like freaks compared to the guys in that game like Gen, Lee and Mike.

As the tech got better, Capcom became more outlandish with their designs all a course the board. I mean look at the characters introduced in the Alpha series like Sakura, R. Mika, Sodom and how Bison became a fat, cape wearing, psycho crushing demi-god.

Weird is what Capcom has always done. The problem just might have been that by the time of SF3, most expected that some of their favorites would be represented in the game since Capcom eventually did so in most of their other series like Alpha eventually did and the Marvel games, instead of the newer characters that looked different and only slightly played similar.

[HuStLeMaN17]

I agree with the other dude that said the more characters the better, I want about 30 to 50 characters no less.

[Arsenal]

I'd rather have 13-16 solid characters than 50 characters and only 7 of them are played.

[Shotokan Symphony]

For example..
Since Alex's stage is in NY, update it so that they fight in like time square on 42nd street, or by WTC or something.

Hell's Kitchen makes more sense. Everything else, though, LOL, on point.

[SaBrE]

that thread has some great suggestions from select individuals. too bad its also filled with lots of ridiculousness as well. dont know how many times i need to see "i loves t3h 3rd strikez. make it just like that game" good lord.

i was just tinkering around with silly ideas. but what if the game ditches meter all together and actually just gives set stock amounts for supers, alpha counters, etc..? basically like when you play a vertical shooter and you hit a button to unleash a screen clearing desperation attack, and it takes a stock. im not saying sf supers take a button to use. they still need to be done with a command as always. just using an example so people understand what im talking about

like maybe give characters only 2 super stocks per match. when games are based around meter, its usually the aggressive character that gets a lot of meter, allowing for more consistent use of supers and what not, compared to the slow grappler or something that has to put in more work to get meter and not get as many opportunites to use supers, counters, ex moves, etc.

id think, giving all characters 2 super stocks for the entire match, could make matches interesting. some people might want to use em early in the match to get an early lead. some might want to save em til the end to score a comeback. some may just use them where it makes most sense to them. you cant get these stocks back until the next match. maybe these stocks can be spent using alpha counters or a slight temporary damage or defense boost. this way, there isnt constant gimmick abuse and yo