Smartest People in Comics

[kane_warhead]

I'll give off a few

Marvel:
1. Reed Richards
2. Victor Von Doom
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. Amadeus Cho
8.
9.
10.


DC:
1.
2.
3. Mr. Terrific
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Any ideas who? I'm inclined to put Ray Palmer, Tony Stark, Hank McCoy, Bruce Wayne, Hank Pym, Bruce Banner, Peter Parker etc.

[maxx]

imma put lex luthor at the smartest person in dc. i honestly dont know know whos smart in marvel...i'd put petey in top 5.

[RockBogart]

Black Panther hacked the shit out of Reed Richard's firewall. And Cho is number 1 in marvel. Reed and Doom are at the same lvl believe it or not.

[maxx]

Black Panther hacked the shit out of Reed Richard's firewall. And Cho is number in marvel. Reed and Doom are at the same lvl believe it or not.

i can see doom and reed at the same level..but dooms arrogance doesnt allow him to ever be wrong though.

[kane_warhead]

I'm not gonna put Thanos there though. He's pretty much one of the smartest beings in the universe.

[kane_warhead]

imma put lex luthor at the smartest person in dc. i honestly dont know know whos smart in marvel...i'd put petey in top 5.

If he's number 1, who's number 2?

[RockBogart]

Actually Darkseid and Braniac surpass Luthor in DC.

[kane_warhead]

Actually Darkseid and Braniac surpass Luthor in DC.

The Golden Age Luthor > Modern Age Luthor.

[RockBogart]

The Golden Age Luthor > Modern Age Luthor.

He still aint got shit on Darkseid.

[kane_warhead]

I'm not disputing it though.

[Are_you_okay?!]

Darkseid, Brainiac, Luthor, Batman, Steel, and I guess Prometheus. DC is hard to figure out, there smart people aren't as prominent in comics as Marvel's.

[Shotokan Symphony]

Grant Morrison. GGPO. /thread

[maxx]

He still aint got shit on Darkseid.

in jlu lex can enter the source wall which has the anti-life eqauation..darkseid can't. yaya i know not canon..but should give lex something.

[4Play]

Black Panther hacked the shit out of Reed Richard's firewall. And Cho is number 1 in marvel. Reed and Doom are at the same lvl believe it or not.

No. Cho said so himself that he's the 7th smartest. I wouldn't count Thanos since Cho and others count only those that are from Earth. Many earthlings probably don't even know Thanos exist.


My List
Marvel

1. Reed Richards
2 Victor Von Doom
3 Iron man
4 Black Panther
5 Hank Pym
6 Bruce Banner
7 Amadeus Cho
8 Mad Thinker 8 and 9 are interchangeable
9 Beast
10 Spidey

Dc list

Batman
Luthor
Mr Terrific

Don't care for the rest :razz:

Edit shit I forgot Puny Banner nigga got DEM PHD'S

[kane_warhead]

I still think Hak McCoy warrants some recognition, he did cure the legacy virus.

and I think Barbara Gordon is considered tops in the DC universe.

[4Play]

Mc Coy would bbe in the top ten for sure.

Barbara yeah she's like 4 or 5 with the Calculator.

[maxx]

i'd put peter above hank, peter could easily be solving world issues but ya know...hes a poor ass genius.

[box]

Marvel: The Leader.

[maxx]

Marvel: The Leader.

fuck that..he gets outsmarted by dumb hulk.

[kane_warhead]

Even with the fucking gamma enchanced brain, he gets outsmarted by the hulk.

[Sheng-Long]

(Cosmic beings don't count, only Earth people)

I think Doom is the most intelligent, he's only hampered by his arrogance. Definitely more intelligent than Richards. IIRC Doom is the only human (other than Kang) to create a fully working Time Machine, which IIRC Reed "borrowed" the designs from. (Reed's father made one but it turned out to be an alternate Earth Transporter). Also, Doom has great Arcane knowledge aside from his scientific knowledge.

Also, add to the list, Bruce Banner. It's often overlooked because of the Hulk persona.
from Marvel.com: http://www.marvel.com/universe/Hulk_(Bruce_Banner)
Dr. Bruce Banner is a genius in nuclear physics, possessing a mind so brilliant that it cannot be measured on any known intelligence test.

[box]

Even with the fucking gamma enchanced brain, he gets outsmarted by the hulk.

Yeah but really...

How often do you see the good guys NOT outsmarting the bad guys?

[4Play]

Kang found Doom's time machine yet he's pretty up there in the rankings as well.


Damn THIS LIST!

[box]

From BusinessWeek: Smartest Superheroes in no particular order.

Reed Richards, Mister Fantastic
Reed Richards is known in the comic book world as one of the most intelligent comic book superheroes ever created. As the leader of the Fantastic Four, Richards is responsible for numerous breakthroughs and inventions in many fields including space travel, holography, and time travel. One of his most notable inventions is a technology called "unstable molecules." Used in the fabric of a superheroes' costume, it allows the costume to conform to the wearer's form&emdash;so that when he stretches his body, the material doesn't rip but instead adjusts to his elongated shape.

Bruce Wayne, Batman
Without any superpowers, Bruce Wayne was forced to use his own drive and intellect to become Batman. He focused his studies on chemistry, forensics, and criminology, all in the pursuit of increasing his superhero skills. His intense studies have made him a great detective and strategist, choosing to plan and outsmart his enemies rather than just fight them. He also designs most of the tools, gadgets, and vehicles he uses as Batman.

Tony Stark, Iron Man
Stark uses his genius-level intellect to constantly improve and modernize his Iron Man armor. When he's not out saving the world, Stark plays the part of a well-respected businessman building large, multimillion-dollar companies, many of which sell equipment and technologies he invents.

Henry Pym, Yellowjacket
Before he became known as Yellowjacket, Pym was formerly the well-known Ant-Man. It was during his time as Ant-Man that he made one of his greatest scientific discoveries -- a rare group of subatomic particles called "Pym particles." He found that the Pym particles could be turned into a serum that allowed him to shrink and then return to normal size. He used Pym particles in this way to defeat his opponents until his body absorbed enough of the serum to be able to shrink and grow on its own.

Hank McCoy, Beast
Don't underestimate him because of his beastly appearance. In the Marvel universe McCoy is considered the world's foremost expert on mutations and evolutionary human biology. Among his greatest contributions was finding a cure for the destructive Legacy virus, a deadly plague that killed thousands of mutants.

Bruce Banner, Hulk
With a PhD in nuclear physics, it's no surprise that he is described by Marvel comics as "possessing a mind so brilliant it cannot be measured on any known intelligence test." As a high school student, before becoming the Hulk, Banner attracted the attention of the U.S. Army Department of Research & Development after developing gadgets and weapons, including a time bomb he created to get back at a school bully

Barbara Gordon, Oracle
Before being shot in the spine and becoming paralyzed, Barbara Gordon defended the streets of Gotham City as Batgirl. Bound to a wheelchair after suffering her gunshot wound, Gordon took a new name and identity as Oracle, a go-to person for Superheroes and law enforcement agents alike. She combined her skills as a librarian and hacker with her knowledge of technology to become an expert investigator for the superhero population.

Peter Parker, Spider-Man
His fascination with science as a school kid may have made him an outcast, but now Spider-Man is one of the most recognized superheroes around. As an adult, Parker could often be found in a lab experimenting with chemistry and physics. In the original comic-book version of Spider-Man, Parker's brilliance at physical science allowed him to create web-shooters for use when he became Spider-Man.

Charles Xavier, Professor X
His list of accomplishments is impressive: he graduated at 16 with honors from Harvard University, founded the X-Men as well as the Xavier Institute that trains and teaches mutants, and had PhDs in genetics, biophysics, psychology, anthropology, and psychiatry. But it's his unparalleled genius in the field of genetic, mutation, and psionic-powers research that got him on this list.

Ray Palmer, Atom
University professor Ray Palmer's claim to fame comes from his invention of a lens that allows him to shrink any object he wishes to a miniscule size. Palmer used this ability as the Atom by shrinking himself whenever needed.

[Sheng-Long]

Batman, Peter Parker and Reed have plot armor though.

Doom is essentially Batman without FUCKING RIDICULOUS plot armor, thus losing to Reed all the time, despite superior intelligence in any field he puts his mind into.

Also, I'm glad that Marvel toned down the Peter Parker scientific ultra-genius thing throughout the years. It makes him much more accessible as a character without it. Leave that shit in the Silver Age.

PS.
High Evolutionary

[Zephyranthes]

Smartest people in comics? We already have a list. It's called The Definitive Asian Comic Book Characters List.

Gimme five, Shengy, HIGH FIVE!!!!1

[RockBogart]

Another smart/broken individual is Mr. Miracle. Dont know how he does half the shit he does.

[maxx]

Another smart/broken individual is Mr. Miracle. Dont know how he does half the shit he does.

mr.miracle has alot of gadgets he stole. without the tools he's nothing.

[Carpet Lint]

Smartest people in comics? We already have a list. It's called The Definitive Asian Comic Book Characters List.

Gimme five, Shengy, HIGH FIVE!!!!1
WE RUN DIS SHIT

[goodm0urning]

Old school/All Star Supes. There's nothing quite like having a brain augmented by the power of the yellow sun.

[Septimus Prime]

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Cable know pretty much everything now, since he has Black Box and the Dominus Objective?

[maxx]

Old school/All Star Supes. There's nothing quite like having a brain augmented by the power of the yellow sun.

yet still got outsmarted by old school luthor.

[4Play]

mr.miracle has alot of gadgets he stole. without the tools he's nothing.

Doesn't he know the Anti life equation? Or something =/.


Oh well :
His wife's dead!!!

[maxx]

Doesn't he know the Anti life equation? Or something =/.


Oh well :
His wife's dead!!!

apparently he holds part of it..he's probably gonna play a big factor in the new dc crossover. cuz apparently their crossovering that with the death of the new gods.

im pissed their getting rid of the new gods. so much potential wasted. i think like 1 is supposed to survive. if its anyone its gotta be mr.miracle....i dont even count darkseid as a new god anymore since he's pretty much a pure dc villain now.

[box]

From Marvel Encyclopedias volumes 1-6:

Intelligence 7 - omniscient: galactus, doop, adversary, goblin queen, beyonder, blackheart, mephisto, nightmare, abraxas, akhenaten, aron the rogue watcher, ashema, ego, prime mover, roma, set, shaper of worlds, stranger, supreme intelligence, uatu the watcher, timebroker

Intelligence 6 - super genius: Cassandra nova, Hulk, iron man, hank pym, thanos, mr fantastic, doctor doom, mr sinister, kid omega, high evolutionary, brute, dark raider, doom 2099, master, mole man, dr. alyssa moy, rama-tut, nathaniel richards, tyrannus, victor von doom clone,

Some of these are suspect, and a lot of these characters are guys i have never heard of before.

[maxx]

wait wait wait?! hulk is a super genous..it doesnt say banner it says the hulk. uhh wtf?!

nathaniel richards? uhh wasnt he just a kid who has crazy mutant powers..how does that make him a super genius..and how does that make him on par with his dad.

i havent heard of 90% of the omniscient guys.

[goodm0urning]

yet still got outsmarted by old school luthor.Old school Luthor ended up getting killed and was used as a meat puppet by Brainiac. Supes won in the end.

Which reminds me: Mr. Mxyzptlk. Essentially a god in the DCU, though he uses it more for his own amusement than for anything else.

[the hurricane]

Quicksilver... not a joke by the way

[maxx]

Old school Luthor ended up getting killed and was used as a meat puppet by Brainiac. Supes won in the end.

Which reminds me: Mr. Mxyzptlk. Essentially a god in the DCU, though he uses it more for his own amusement than for anything else.

a god doesnt make you smart lol. then the new gods would be owning the dcu.

[Septimus Prime]

I thought it's pretty clear that Mr. Mxyzsptlk could easily destroy anyone/anything in DC if he felt like it, but he doesn't because it would bore him.

[epp1e]

I vote for Calvin... he'll destroy Imaginationland.

[goodm0urning]

a god doesnt make you smart lol. then the new gods would be owning the dcu.I didn't literally mean a god. I said "essentially a god"--meaning he is both omnipotent (can do anything he wants) and omniscient (knows everything).

Sep got it: Mxy could fuck everybody's shit up, but where's the fun in that?

[4Play]

wait wait wait?! hulk is a super genous..it doesnt say banner it says the hulk. uhh wtf?!

nathaniel richards? uhh wasnt he just a kid who has crazy mutant powers..how does that make him a super genius..and how does that make him on par with his dad.

i havent heard of 90% of the omniscient guys.

Nathaniel is the father of Reed. Franklin is the son. Nathaniel is a time traveler and genius who in Kang's time line brings peace and all that shit. I think he ruled other timelines as well, I don't remember.

[maxx]

Nathaniel is the father of Reed. Franklin is the son. Nathaniel is a time traveler and genius who in Kang's time line brings peace and all that shit. I think he ruled other timelines as well, I don't remember.

oh ok.

wow...reed richards gene pool is broken.

[4Play]

Yep, Kang is a possible descendant of Reed. In a possible timeline Franklin and Rachel Grey(Phoenix) have a kid named Hyperstorm that has unlimited power from HYPERSPACE!( it was 90's so yeah it was stupid). Franklin alone when he was in his teens one of the most powerful mutants ever(Psi Lord).

:looney:

[maxx]

Yep, Kang is a possible descendant of Reed. In a possible timeline Franklin and Rachel Grey(Phoenix) have a kid named Hyperstorm that has unlimited power from HYPERSPACE!( it was 90's so yeah it was stupid). Franklin alone when he was in his teens one of the most powerful mutants ever(Psi Lord).

:looney:
didn't they nerf franklins brokeness?

[Sheng-Long]

Smartest people in comics? We already have a list. It's called The Definitive Asian Comic Book Characters List.

Gimme five, Shengy, HIGH FIVE!!!!1

EH-YOOOOOOOOOOH!


Intelligence 6 - super genius: Cassandra nova, Hulk, iron man, hank pym, thanos, mr fantastic, doctor doom, mr sinister, kid omega, high evolutionary, brute, dark raider, doom 2099, master, mole man, dr. alyssa moy, rama-tut, nathaniel richards, tyrannus, victor von doom clone,

Some of these are suspect, and a lot of these characters are guys i have never heard of before.


Doctor Doom is hereby nominated as honorary Asian.

[epp1e]

Dude Doom is definitely in the Asian club. He's rockin a chinky mask to rep us Asians.

[Sheng-Long]

Exactly.

He went to the Tibetan monks up in the Himalayas so they can cast him an Asian mask. He was so excited to put it on even when it was still burning hot that it scarred him forever.

[Zephyranthes]

Very well. Latveria is in Asia Minor, correct? Doom is one of us.

[box]

wait wait wait?! hulk is a super genous..it doesnt say banner it says the hulk. uhh wtf?!

It's the same person. At the time of publishing, I believe they were talking about the "merged" Hulk. Also for the Encyclopedias purposes, it would be terrible idea to put two entries for the same person (ie. One for the Hulk and one for Bruce Banner). It'd be like putting an entry for Tony Stark and one for Iron Man as Iron Man has a higher strength rating than Tony Stark.

nathaniel richards? uhh wasnt he just a kid who has crazy mutant powers..how does that make him a super genius..and how does that make him on par with his dad.
Nathaniel Richards is Reed's father. I believe you're thinking about Franklin Richards.

i havent heard of 90% of the omniscient guys.
Yeah neither have I. Most of them have their own wikipedia entries. It seems that alot of them are cosmic/demon dimension based characters.

[{PFH}-Lake]

The Watcher

Kingpin-knows how to get anything and use anyone

Batman-out smarts the Joker and the Riddler, id give him some credit

Doctor Strange

and that one guy in DC comics who doesnt have a face, he knows everything

[nameingway]

cho does real crazy shit that i've never seen anyone like reed do though. example: throwing a rock at a missle to redirect the missle away from him. he also hacked reeds security/communications device and was talking to him about how terrible his code was (not sure what device he was making fun of, possibly a satellite). also... i think reed may have went on to say he didn't personally write the code or it's outdated, but still. he accused young dude of having super brain mutant powers.

[maxx]

The Watcher

Kingpin-knows how to get anything and use anyone

Batman-out smarts the Joker and the Riddler, id give him some credit

Doctor Strange

and that one guy in DC comics who doesnt have a face, he knows everything

how are we defining smarts? cuz i dont think we're going with untraditional sense..hence u dont see dr.strange on the list.

[Steve F]

Do supernatural guys count? Like the watcher for instance, he knows everything, but is that necessarily intelligence or just knowledge.

I never heard any of that stuff about Reed's father, what is that some 90's comic plot insanity?

[ruthless_nash]

batman >>>>> all

[maxx]

batman >>>>> all

LOL I say luthor is smarter but only loses cuz he lives in a world where heroes must win.

[goodm0urning]

LOL I say luthor is smarter but only loses cuz he lives in a world where heroes must win.Doubtful. Luthor's biggest goal in life is the defeat of Superman, and he's zero for hundreds. Bats vs. Supes is 13 for 18 or something like that, and Bats isn't even a major enemy. Luthor has a big brain, but he does dumb things with it, so among super-geniuses, he's not the sharpest.

[DS]

Doubtful. Luthor's biggest goal in life is the defeat of Superman, and he's zero for hundreds. Bats vs. Supes is 13 for 18 or something like that, and Bats isn't even a major enemy. Luthor has a big brain, but he does dumb things with it, so among super-geniuses, he's not the sharpest.

Logic(Batman) > maxx(Lex).

[Zephyranthes]

maxx can be Batman, or say whatever he wants, when he finds that purported TPB of Deathstroke beating down the JLA. WHERE IS IT!!! My life is not complete.

[RockBogart]

I'm surprised no one is preaching about Deathstroke. When comes to tactics, he's playing chess while everyone else plays checkers. And if you want to see a recent Deathstroke beat down peep the Green Arrow/Black Canary wedding or Identity Crisis. He went into the wedding fight knowing he wasn't going to win, he just needed to get it out of his system. For some reason he couldnt get any big name villains to roll with him. If had a few of them he probably could have won.

[DS]

I'm surprised no one is preaching about Deathstroke. When comes to tactics, he's playing chess while everyone else plays checkers. And if you want to see a recent Deathstroke beat down peep the Green Arrow/Black Canary wedding or Identity Crisis. He went into the wedding fight knowing he wasn't going to win, he just needed to get it out of his system. For some reason he couldnt get any big name villains to roll with him. If had a few of them he probably could have won.

That's tactical genius, but unlike Batman, he can't cure cancer. He's not exactly an "uber-genius".

[Zephyranthes]

But only Deathstroke is smart enough to predict that Green Lantern would throw a punch at him with his ring-hand. Only Deathstroke could calculate and pinpoint the exact location of an atom-sized Ray Palmer, and then use his intellectual prowess and laser pointer to completely take the Atom out of the battle. Deathstroke doesn't need to cure cancer. He can beat up the Atom. That takes a true genius level intellect.

[DS]

But only Deathstroke is smart enough to predict that Green Lantern would throw a punch at him with his ring-hand. Only Deathstroke could calculate and pinpoint the exact location of an atom-sized Ray Palmer, and then use his intellectual prowess and laser pointer to completely take the Atom out of the battle. Deathstroke doesn't need to cure cancer. He can beat up the Atom. That takes a true genius level intellect.

He also did beat up the entire JLA.

[goodm0urning]

maxx can be Batman, or say whatever he wants, when he finds that purported TPB of Deathstroke beating down the JLA. WHERE IS IT!!! My life is not complete.If maxx were Batman, he would have found it by now.

[Zephyranthes]

Then it's settled? Deathstroke is the smartest person in the entire DCU because he's beaten up everyone at least once?

Getting back to the main topic, though - Mr. Majestic should be on that list. He's got Pre-Crisis Superman level and Reed Richards level intellect. He's invented things that have allowed him to hide planets by physically moving them without destroying them.

[Carpet Lint]

But only Deathstroke is smart enough to predict that Green Lantern would throw a punch at him with his ring-hand. Only Deathstroke could calculate and pinpoint the exact location of an atom-sized Ray Palmer, and then use his intellectual prowess and laser pointer to completely take the Atom out of the battle. Deathstroke doesn't need to cure cancer. He can beat up the Atom. That takes a true genius level intellect.
ALL SKILL, BABY

[goodm0urning]

Damn. If beating people up is the key to proving how smart you are, sign me up. I'll grab my aluminum bat, take a trip down to the old folks' home, and rack up record IQ points by sundown.

[str[e]ak]

Smartest people in comics? We already have a list. It's called The Definitive Asian Comic Book Characters List.

Gimme five, Shengy, HIGH FIVE!!!!1

WE RUN DIS SHIT

LMAO. :rofl:

anyway, i don't think beings should count. (thanos, galactus, etc.)

still, batman gets my vote for top in DC. for marvel, um, not too sure. i'd say it's a toss up between mr. fantastic, doctor doom, and tony stark.

[maxx]

maxx can be Batman, or say whatever he wants, when he finds that purported TPB of Deathstroke beating down the JLA. WHERE IS IT!!! My life is not complete.

jesus let it go.

[DS]

jesus let it go.

Says the man with the "substantial proof". HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[maxx]

Says the man with the "substantial proof". HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

-=sigh=- itll show up eventually..i told the guy to just assume im wrong til i find it.

[gemdoom]

good info thanks.

[ATM SPIDERTAO]

is tony stark even that smart?

i thought as far as marvel universe, there were two untouchable smarts, reed richards and doom. they are considered like THE SMARTEST people by IQ in THE WORLD

and then you have like super genius, lots of PHD's and totally smart people like

sue storm (she's hella smart too), spiderman, tony stark, bruce banner, hank mccoy? black panther? xavier? ant man etc

some people were smart and did shit with their intelligence like hank pym with the pym particles, spiderman and his webshooters LOL and tony stark with his ironman suit

other dudes like mccoy just do research and charles, is he even that smart? or did he read everyone's minds? they don't really emphasize that he's really SMART, moreso just like... the dude who made the x-men

but like while reed and doom don't really focus their intelligence into one thing, other guys like ironman made the ironman suit and specialized in their field.

DCU i dunno yooo but i would sooooo fuck wonder girl!

[maxx]

is tony stark even that smart?

i thought as far as marvel universe, there were two untouchable smarts, reed richards and doom. they are considered like THE SMARTEST people by IQ in THE WORLD

and then you have like super genius, lots of PHD's and totally smart people like

sue storm (she's hella smart too), spiderman, tony stark, bruce banner, hank mccoy? black panther? xavier? ant man etc

some people were smart and did shit with their intelligence like hank pym with the pym particles, spiderman and his webshooters LOL and tony stark with his ironman suit

other dudes like mccoy just do research and charles, is he even that smart? or did he read everyone's minds? they don't really emphasize that he's really SMART, moreso just like... the dude who made the x-men

but like while reed and doom don't really focus their intelligence into one thing, other guys like ironman made the ironman suit and specialized in their field.

DCU i dunno yooo but i would sooooo fuck wonder girl!

tony stark is hella smart. dude built iron man..no one else did. he's got his brains in advanced tech, he not nessisarily super smart in science...but he has to know a good aspect of it to have iron man.

[Steve F]

tony stark is hella smart. dude built iron man..no one else did. he's got his brains in advanced tech, he not nessisarily super smart in science...but he has to know a good aspect of it to have iron man.

Nah he had help. I'll show you. This is a composite of a few pages, btw and not a real page in the comic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/KyosukeUrameshi/ironman.jpg

Anyway as you can see, don't belittle that other guy. He died for Iron Man to be made. So yeah tony stark isn't as smart as everyone thinks.

[FreddyL0c0]

the white man holding down asians once again!

[Carpet Lint]

Nah he had help. I'll show you. This is a composite of a few pages, btw and not a real page in the comic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/KyosukeUrameshi/ironman.jpg

Anyway as you can see, don't belittle that other guy. He died for Iron Man to be made. So yeah tony stark isn't as smart as everyone thinks.
Once again...Asians run everything.

[Adam Warlock]

Batman, Peter Parker and Reed have plot armor though.

Doom is essentially Batman without FUCKING RIDICULOUS plot armor, thus losing to Reed all the time, despite superior intelligence in any field he puts his mind into.


Doom is not smarter than Reed. It's why Doom is obssessed with beating him. It's also why Doom practices magic, because he knows he can't fuck with Reed in science alone.

[matrix9280]

Luke Cage has street smarts.

[Edpachi]

ok wat happen to darkseid he should be way up there

[True Grave]

I'll give off a few

Marvel:
1. Reed Richards
2. Victor Von Doom
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. Amadeus Cho
8.
9.
10.


DC:
1.
2.
3. Mr. Terrific
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Any ideas who? I'm inclined to put Ray Palmer, Tony Stark, Hank McCoy, Bruce Wayne, Hank Pym, Bruce Banner, Peter Parker etc.

The thread title should be changed to "smartest person in comics". Which is Batman.

-end thread

[Sheng-Long]

That old Asian man is a physicist, and only helped Tony make the armor (he's an electrical engineer from MIT, graduated when he was 15). Why the hell would a physicist be more hands on than an electrical engineer in designing and building an exoskeleton armor?

What's with the Tony Stark hate? Just because you guys got daddy issues and you see him as "The Man" even though he's a more effective superhero than most.

compare and contrast. Tony Stark vs Bruce Wayne.

Tony Stark: parents died in a car accident because of faulty breaks.
Bruce Wayne: parents died when they were shot during a mugging.

What do they do about it?
Tony Stark: buys out the company that manufactured the faulty breaks and corrects the error in design.
Bruce Wayne: dressed up as a bat and runs around the city with an underage boy to catch criminals, fails to even identify the suspect and get his revenge.

Tony Stark: Billionaire playboy.
Bruce Wayne: Billionaire. Playboy only as an act in public, in reality he hangs out with underage boys.

What happens to the villains they fight?
Tony Stark: He either reforms them (Black Widow, Hawkeye, Crimson Dynamo), buys them out, drives them to suicide (Iron Monger) or imprisons them in SHIELD protected high-tech maximum security facilities.

Bruce Wayne: Throws them into Arkham Asylum. A facility known more for its criminal escapees than reforming them, where villains like the Joker have escaped multiple times to kill and kill again and again.

All that money Bruce Wayne has (even more than Luthor!) and all the "crime-fighting" that Batman seems to be doing and still....Gotham City is the way it is? I'd fucking love to see what its like if Batman isn't there.

Doom is not smarter than Reed. It's why Doom is obssessed with beating him. It's also why Doom practices magic, because he knows he can't fuck with Reed in science alone.

Doom is obsessed with fighting Reed not because he thinks Reed is better than him, but because he knows Reed is the only human whose intellect provides a worthy enough of a challenge to him.

Doom's greatest scientific achievement is the only working time machine in Marvel and is able to pretty much match Reed even though he doesn't hold any college degrees or had an education just like Reed did. Not to mention he has to run a country and know enough arcane knowledge to best other sorcerers except for Dr. Strange.

What was Reed's greatest invention? The ULTIMATE NULLIFIER, a weapon so powerful that it drove Galactus away from Earth...oh wait, he didn't invent that! So that leaves us with....the Fantasti-car ?!?!?! Even though he spends 24/7 inside his lab.

He practiced magic because he comes from a culture that did. It's arcane knowledge passed onto him. He doesn't even take it seriously because he considers it beneath him.

If its just the numbers game, he can easily best Reed (Reed beats Doom most of the time through the help others anyway, something Doom considers beneath that of a monarch like him), but Marvel has to put that psychological nerf explanation on Doom like they did with Thanos (that both villains sub-consciously sabotage their plans that's why they always fail). lame.... at least he's not Batman lame, that shit is just ridiculous.

P.S.
Batman sucks.

[goodm0urning]

P.S.
Batman sucks.Seriously? Batman owns everybody left and right. He's the single most broken, unbeatable superhero in the world.

[Sheng-Long]

Seriously? Batman owns everybody left and right. He's the single most broken, unbeatable superhero in the world.

And don't you just love when people say the exact same thing about Superman and claim that he's a boring character?

...at least Superman is more than just a walking plot armor made of 50% hype and 50% fanboy-nadium.

[goodm0urning]

And don't you just love when people say the exact same thing about Superman and claim that he's a boring character?Yeah. I find it amusing when people are utterly misinformed and ignorant. Makes me feel big.

...at least Superman is more than just a walking plot armor made of 50% hype and 50% fanboy-nadium.A bitter Iron Man fan. You must be a devil with the ladies.

[maxx]

And don't you just love when people say the exact same thing about Superman and claim that he's a boring character?

...at least Superman is more than just a walking plot armor made of 50% hype and 50% fanboy-nadium.

jesus talk about a disgruntled fanboy.

bet your hoping tony's a skrull right now.

[Zephyranthes]

Stop hating on the Asian just because he's absolutely right. Don't you guys know? Haven't you learned it by now?

You must defeat Shengy to stand a chance.

[DS]

The thread title should be changed to "smartest person in comics". Which is Batman.

-end thread

Trolling ftw. If you read comics, you'd say otherwise.

[maxx]

Trolling ftw. If you read comics, you'd say otherwise.

lol true...batman aiignt working on his own car thats for sure lol. ya know whats smart..he hires smarter people for him lol. remember when he had the retarded guy working on his car back in the late 90's.

[True Grave]

Seriously? Batman owns everybody left and right. He's the single most broken, unbeatable superhero in the world.

Yes, yes he is.

[goodm0urning]

lol true...batman aiignt working on his own car thats for sure lol. ya know whats smart..he hires smarter people for him lol. remember when he had the retarded guy working on his car back in the late 90's.Harold.

His resurrection and subsequent execution is one of the many ridiculous stunts that I think typifies the quality of the storytelling in today's comics. Come on. Harold, Batman's former hunchback assistant, gets brought back with this giant dramatic flourish like we should all give a damn, then gets executed the very next moment? What mouth-breathing retard shat out THAT idea?

Oh, right.

[maxx]

Harold.

His resurrection and subsequent execution is one of the many ridiculous stunts that I think typifies the quality of the storytelling in today's comics. Come on. Harold, Batman's former hunchback assistant, gets brought back with this giant dramatic flourish like we should all give a damn, then gets executed the very next moment? What mouth-breathing retard shat out THAT idea?

Oh, right.

whend he come back?

[goodm0urning]

whend he come back?Hush.

[nameingway]

Doom is not smarter than Reed. It's why Doom is obssessed with beating him. It's also why Doom practices magic, because he knows he can't fuck with Reed in science alone.

doom isn't as smart as reed flat out, no. his int is probably a few points shy (wow the geek is oozing out of my post) of reed. that being said, he's got more knowledge in areas such as mysticism, a better grasp of how to get shit done (undercover, backstabbing mofucka), and he usually seems to know what's up from what i've read of him.

considering his strong points vs weak points i'd say it would be arguable on them being tied or reed being smarter at all. that would, of course, boil down to what we define as "comic book character smarts" but whatever.

just to clarify for a few people who won't understand my post: this was not intended to be a "doom is scientifically smarter than reed" post.

[maxx]

Hush.

damn i have hush i need reread it.

[Adam Warlock]

Doom is obsessed with fighting Reed not because he thinks Reed is better than him, but because he knows Reed is the only human whose intellect provides a worthy enough of a challenge to him.

Doom's greatest scientific achievement is the only working time machine in Marvel and is able to pretty much match Reed even though he doesn't hold any college degrees or had an education just like Reed did. Not to mention he has to run a country and know enough arcane knowledge to best other sorcerers except for Dr. Strange.

What was Reed's greatest invention? The ULTIMATE NULLIFIER, a weapon so powerful that it drove Galactus away from Earth...oh wait, he didn't invent that! So that leaves us with....the Fantasti-car ?!?!?! Even though he spends 24/7 inside his lab.

He practiced magic because he comes from a culture that did. It's arcane knowledge passed onto him. He doesn't even take it seriously because he considers it beneath him.

If its just the numbers game, he can easily best Reed (Reed beats Doom most of the time through the help others anyway, something Doom considers beneath that of a monarch like him), but Marvel has to put that psychological nerf explanation on Doom like they did with Thanos (that both villains sub-consciously sabotage their plans that's why they always fail). lame.... at least he's not Batman lame, that shit is just ridiculous.



Have you read any of the pre civil war recent FF arcs? Because IIRC the arc with Reed having to learn magic to beat doom pretty much counters everything you said.When I get a chance, I'lltake the issues out and quote them. I'm just a lazy fuck.

[kane_warhead]

Have you read any of the pre civil war recent FF arcs? Because IIRC the arc with Reed having to learn magic to beat doom pretty much counters everything you said.When I get a chance, I'll take the issues out and quote them. I'm just a lazy fuck.


I don't like that arc.

It pretty much destroys magic users credibility in the Marvel Universe when Mr. Fantastic could just learn some lines and be able to beat Doom and send him to hell.

I havent read that arc, just read some summary so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Well, Doom did beat most of the magician candidates for sorceror supreme just by looking at them and learning from their mistakes. That and it was hinted in Doom 2099 Doom defeated/killed Richards.

[Adam Warlock]

I don't like that arc.


I'm not a big fan of it either, but Doom all but flat out says "my mistake is trying to match you in science. I can't win. But science isn't my only tool like it is yours" etc. Something along those lines.

The thing that people like Shen Long seem to disregard is that doomk literally spends all his time plotting against Richards. All his time. And richards beats those plans ON THE FLY. Richards with 20 minutes > prep time Doom and yet people don't want to give reed credit.

[Zephyranthes]

The difference maker in the Unthinkable arc was Dr. Strange, though. He saved Reed right there. He gave Reed the means to defeat Doom - all Reed had to do was say, "I'm an idiot" and Strange's magical device would work some mojo and blow Doom away. That whole story was about pride and arrogance, not about matching scientific or mystical genius. And if Strange didn't help Reed with the magic, the FF would have lost the battle.

[Carpet Lint]

Yeah, I don't remember the specifics of it, but wasn't it Dr. Strange that provided the magical means to beat Doom? Like Strange was the one that powered the spell, Reed was only the one that activated it.

I thought the whole point of that along with the bit where Reed was trapped in the magic book library and unable to figure a way out was that he didn't know anything about magic, and that would always be something Doom had a leg up on him in.

Doom's track record is pretty bad against Reed, granted, but that's always something you gotta take in stride when you're talking about comic books and superheroes beating supervillains. Plus, remember that one story where Reed and Doom switched, and Doom led the Fantastic Four to take out Reed?

I would think that Dr. Doom's got a big leg up on Reed in other non-science fields as well, like politics, financials, combat strategy and tactics...and powerless, he could probably take him in a kung-fu fight as well.

What is the definition of "smartness" in the context of this thread?

Because if Peter Parker's even mentioned here, then it obviously doesn't mean that much in terms of booksmarts then.

[maxx]

Because if Peter Parker's even mentioned here, then it obviously doesn't mean that much in terms of booksmarts then.

i'm confused...are you saying parker isnt really smart in science?

[box]

i'm confused...are you saying parker isnt really smart in science?

Parker is gifted, but he's nowhere near Reed or Stark's intelligence, and shouldn't be in the running for smartest person in comics.

Parker's educational background isn't as extensive as some of the other guys mentioned on this thread. He's got a bachelor's in physics I believe... while Richards writes PHd level papers in all fields on a daily basis.

Parker invented web-shooters. Stark invented the Iron Man armor.

Parker is like the nerd in your class that always gets the top grade. Reed is like Stephen Hawking.

[goodm0urning]

Parker invented web-shooters when he was 15.Fixed.

[Carpet Lint]

He's not. He's a scientific genius compared to the bank robbers he fights and the general superhero, but to be considered in like the top 10 or top 20 of an entire comic book universe is not right.

I don't get why everyone thinks Spidey's an actual scientific genius. Did he ever even get that doctorate? Let's say he has, so he has like PhD level smarts in biochemistry.

So how does that distinguish him from like the twenty million biochemistry doctorates in REAL LIFE? In what way does that put him above any of the THOUSANDS of random beekeeper lookalike AIM agents? The thousands of random scientists in HYDRA/SHIELD/Stark Enterprises, whatever?

Has Peter Parker ever come up with something other than the webshooters that prove anything about how smart he is? And even the web stuff he made was because he was given instinctual knowledge about that stuff from his powers. And honestly...webshooters? Things that shoot out pressured liquid really far? ...yes, surely a crowning scientific achievement. Peter Parker's claim to scientific genius is developing a high-tech version of silly string? Stop bringing that up - it HURTS his case.

There's even tons of major Spidey characters that are smarter than him - Curt Connors, Dr. Octopus, The Osborns, The Jackal (ugh), Alistair Smythe...

Look at like Batman, Black Panther, Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Terrific - they have like maybe one guy at most in their rogues gallery that are comparable in smartness.

...in fact, I'd offer that Peter Parker is actually pretty stupid if you think about it.

If Peter Parker is so smart, then why has he been the absolute poorest comic book character over the last forty years? Why does he have to work as a freelance photographer and a high school teacher, when like Ezekiel has managed to use his spider powers to craft like a $400 million company or whatever?

Shit, I make more money than Peter Parker ever has. If Peter Parker can't figure out how to make more money than me, then how smart can he be?

[maxx]

the way he's always described they've always put him on par wit people like doc connors and reed. i'm not saying he's smarter than reed but he's always been written as if his smarts were on par with them.

he's almost like a child prodigy who didn't make it. Because of his living situation..lets not kid ourselves..kid is from the white ghetto. he got scholorships and grants and such for college...so just cause he didnt skip grades, i still think he is still one of the smartest guys in marvel. and he's written as such.

i think captain america alluded to this when he signed him to the avengers..can someone confirm or deny this?

[box]

the way he's always described they've always put him on par wit people like doc connors and reed. i'm not saying he's smarter than reed but he's always been written as if his smarts were on par with them.

he's almost like a child prodigy who didn't make it. Because of his living situation..lets not kid ourselves..kid is from the white ghetto. he got scholorships and grants and such for college...so just cause he didnt skip grades, i still think he is still one of the smartest guys in marvel. and he's written as such.

i think captain america alluded to this when he signed him to the avengers..can someone confirm or deny this?

Parker is smart but I don't think he's ever been written as if his smarts were on par with Reed Richards. I believe his intelligence rating in the Marvel Encyclopedia has him at level 4 (gifted) while Reed is at level 6 (super genius) and Dr connors is at level 5 (genius).

Whenever somebody has a problem, they don't go to Peter Parker. They go to Reed Richards if it's science based. They go to Tony Stark if it's technological. They go to Hank Mccoy if it's genetics. Peter Parker is gifted... but he's never been written as on par with the other top-tier intellects in the Marvel Universe.

Cap America signed him to the Avengers cause he just happened to be on the Raft fighting the prisoners that day. It was "fate". I don't think he mentioned anything about Peter's intellect.

[{PFH}-Lake]

Parker is smart but that smart he had to get help from Reed and Dr. Curt Connors a few times

[Adam Warlock]

Parker is nowhere near Richard's level, but I'd put him on par with Stark.

[box]

Parker invented web-shooters when he was 15.

If he were smart he would have realized how to use his organic web-shooters off the get-go instead of wasting all that money buying materials for web-fluid. :)

[Steve F]

If he were smart he would have realized how to use his organic web-shooters off the get-go instead of wasting all that money buying materials for web-fluid. :)

What are you talking about? That is from a totally different version, Ultimate or the movie, but not the original spider-man we are talking about.

[box]

What are you talking about? That is from a totally different version, Ultimate or the movie, but not the original spider-man we are talking about.
Believe me, it hurts everytime I say this, but the original spider-man has organic web-shooters now.

[Sano]

I think he's just joking since Peter Parker did gain organic webshooters in 616 eventually and he has them now.

EDIT: Ah box beat me to it... :sweat:

[goodm0urning]

Shit, I make more money than Peter Parker ever has. If Peter Parker can't figure out how to make more money than me, then how smart can he be?I think you need to get more sleep.

[maxx]

Parker is nowhere near Richard's level, but I'd put him on par with Stark.

ok, but he defintly written as if his smarts are way above that of a normal scientist/bioengineer. can we at least agree on this?

[Zephyranthes]

What do you mean by "normal"? There are lots of random SHIELD/AIM/HYDRA scientists who have created tons of science fiction stuff. Or do you mean "normal" compared to real life... In which case, he would be in the running for the title of the Smartest Person of All Time.

Spidey's super smart, for sure. I just don't understand how he can be in the top ten Smartest People in Marvel, let alone in all of comics. If we're just talking about Smart People In Comics, he'd belong. But then we'd be slightly off topic, and sano would be forced to close the thread and ban us all for life.

[maxx]

What do you mean by "normal"? There are lots of random SHIELD/AIM/HYDRA scientists who have created tons of science fiction stuff. Or do you mean "normal" compared to real life... In which case, he would be in the running for the title of the Smartest Person of All Time.

Spidey's super smart, for sure. I just don't understand how he can be in the top ten Smartest People in Marvel, let alone in all of comics. If we're just talking about Smart People In Comics, he'd belong. But then we'd be slightly off topic, and sano would be forced to close the thread and ban us all for life.

oh i didnt say or at least mean he's top 10 in all of comics...but defintly in the top ten for at least marvel.

[DS]

oh i didnt say or at least mean he's top 10 in all of comics...but defintly in the top ten for at least marvel.

No, just no. Peter is smart, but he still gets schooled by Reed in a crossover. Come on, even Amadeus Cho can school Peter Parker.

[maxx]

No, just no. Peter is smart, but he still gets schooled by Reed in a crossover. Come on, even Amadeus Cho can school Peter Parker.

i think i backed out of pete being as smart as reed. whos amadeus cho?

edit: just googled him...well it says reed puts him at 7th smartest in marvel universe..ya he's smart, cuz its a power apparently.

[Steve F]

So what, his web shooters just magically sprouted out of his wrists? His body was like, well, these mechanical ones I made are so useful, why don't I just grow some of my own? Wow, Marvel, good work guys. Really.

[Zephyranthes]

He's that wunderkind in the Hulk comics. Some Asian supergenius who thinks he can help Hulk get his revenge, or something to that effect.

[maxx]

So what, his web shooters just magically sprouted out of his wrists? His body was like, well, these mechanical ones I made are so useful, why don't I just grow some of my own? Wow, Marvel, good work guys. Really.

they tried to assimilate the movie cause they realized a whole new crowd was joining. hence why when they created the ultimate universe it was meant to be more streamlined and new user friendly..hence alot of the ultimate stuff matches similar to the movies. they also did this with the 616 universe but a bit later. peter essentially evolved in the 616 universe.

[Sano]

IMHO with Spidey it depends on who is writing him.

It's not just webshooters, on the regular he would go home and invent something to defeat villains he fought all the time. As a matter of fact that's how he came up with the Spider Tracer in the first place. He would whip up a gizmo to ground Volture, some toy to help him stop Doc Ock, a chemical solution to stop a robot, you name it. He's not written that way anymore though. JMS did try to bring science back into the book but he used real science and not the old Marvel make believe science (radiation and gamma rays will kill your ass lol) so no new gizmos there. Course long ago he didn't have Marvel buddies to make stuff for him either... Maybe JJJ was right all along and Parker is just lazy. "STOP FLIRTING WITH BETTY BRANT AND GO TAKE SOME PICTURES OF THAT SPIDER MENACE!" Lol he had to tell him that two separate times in issue 12 of Amazing. :rofl:

I say he's smart but him being in top ten for Marvel is a maaaaaybe, again, depending on who is writing him and even then he might be number ten. Top seven is a flat out no.

[box]

ok, but he defintly written as if his smarts are way above that of a normal scientist/bioengineer. can we at least agree on this?

The thing is, Peter Parker is supposed to be considered the "everyman". Stan Lee wanted to create someone everyone could relate to. He's smart, yes, but he only has a bachelor's degree in physics.

He created web-shooters when he was 15... but they're nothing more then a souped-up version of a watergun.

If you compare Spider-man's scientific achivements with say... Tony Stark... well I think the achievements speak for themselves.

The armor has evolved from a bulky iron suit to a molecularly aligned matrix of crystallized iron enhanced by magnetic fields over layers of other metals like titanium, creating a shell that is pliable, yet capable of great resilience and protection. The suit grants him superhuman strength and flight capabilities, and is powered by a combination of solar converters, electrical batteries and an on-board generator that uses beta particle absorption as a fuel source. The suit is also able to convert nearby energy sources, such as heat or kinetic energy into electricity, or even drain electrical energy directly into the batteries for recharge. Tony also adds jet skates that are now so powerful Iron Man could skate forward towing an entire train behind him. Miniature panes can protect Iron Man's eyes when needed. In addition, the suit can be completely sealed for operations in vacuum or underwater, providing its own life support, and is shielded against radiation.

The onboard systems of the armor are controlled by Tony Stark's brain patterns, read from a cybernetic interface in his helmet. Sophisticated computers with an artificially intelligent operating system of Stark's own design provide tactical information as well as constant feedback on the suit's status, using internal and external sensors. As noted above, Stark has tried to put safeguards in to make sure that the systems do not actually achieve sentience, although these were once circumvented.

...

After being critically injured during a battle with the Extremis-enhanced Mallen, Stark injects his nervous system with a modified techno-organic virus (the extremis process) that not only saves his life, but also fuses Stark's armor to his body. This allows him to store the inner layers of the Iron Man armor in the hollows of his bones as well as control it through direct brain impulses. Stark can control the layer of the armor underneath his skin and make it emerge from numerous exit points around his limbs as a gold-colored neural interface under-sheath. While in this form, Stark can control the armor cyberpathically and suit up at any time, even if the armor is 100 miles away. Furthermore, the Extremis process has increased his body's recuperative and healing abilities. He is also able to remotely connect to external communications systems such as satellites, cellular phones, and computers throughout the world. Because the armor's operating system is now directly connected to Stark's nervous system, its response time has been significantly improved.


Last but not least... Tony Stark managed to harness Peter Parker's Spider-Sense and figure out a way to neutralize Peter Parker's own spider-sense. Now that's intelligent.

Stark also has a "phera-sense" which he gained by using information he garnered from the analysis of Spider-Man's neurophysiology by the "Spider-Armor" Stark gave him and uses this to not only create his own 'spider-sense' but can also neutralize Spider-Man's and create "false positives" in Spider-Man's spider-sense.

[goodm0urning]

The thing is, Peter Parker is supposed to be considered the "everyman". Stan Lee wanted to create someone everyone could relate to. He's smart, yes, but he only has a bachelor's degree in physics. I would actually credit Ditko with Pete's early everymanitude. (Yeah. Everymanitude. It's a word now.) Ditko wanted him to be the archetypal self-sacrificing hero figure, and it was when Ditko left the book that stupid shit started to happen, like Peter getting chased by two or three girls at a time. Being a dork in the Marvel universe is apparently a lot cooler than being a dork in real life.

[maxx]

well the thing is..the self sacrificing aspect of spider-man is where his potential genius falls off. many of the geniuses in the marvel universe were building that way for years and had all the tools and means and they didnt get powers til their late 20's or in their thirties. no one at the time was like peter who was like one of the only teenage heros in marvel.

he sacrificed alot to be the hero. So his potential was never fully developed or realized. he could be 10x smarter than we is..or potenially is. But to be that self sacrificing hero, he sacrificed alot of his education..cutting class to go stop a madman from world domination....tony didnt really have to worry about that in school.

also i know tony's smart but he had alot of help in his genius..peter was really alone in alot of situations. but tony had help building iron man..as pointed out in this very thread. its not like their was a assiant for peter with alot of shit he went through. he occasionally went to reed or doc connors...i think alot of that though wasn't nessisarily cause they were smarter but because they had the facility needs. i mean peter broke into nyu all the time for the lab but sometimes he just cant break in and has to don the costume and go "hey lizard man..look at this alien thing cause you got a big giant microscope i can't afford cause i got rent due this week."

[Zephyranthes]

But potential shouldn't be a factor in this discussion. We're talking about who's smartest based on their accomplishments and what the characters have displayed themselves capable of achieving in comics that have been published in real life.

So, saying that Spidey has the potential to be smarter than Tony Stark but never fully realized his potential because he was too much of a self-sacrificing hero? That's like saying Kwame Brown has the potential to be Kevin Garnett but never fully lived up to his potential because Michael Jordan and Gilbert Arenas didn't pass him the ball enough.

Tremendous Upside Potential (TUP) only works with rookies and really raw, underdeveloped young players. Spider-Man's been around since what, 1962? He's not just a wily veteran... He's downright ancient in TUP terms. You might even say he's past his prime.

[kane_warhead]

You guys forgot doctor octopus? He's the one whom Reed went to to help deliver his second child.

How smart is Doc Ock, if the smartest man in the whole world went to you to ask about a field.

[4Play]

Doctor Doom delivered the child not Doc Ock.

[box]

Snip

Zeph read my thoughts exactly.

Potentials have nothing to do with it though. That's like saying I'm one of the top 10 MvC2 players in the world... the only reason I'm not is cause I didn't practice. Or it's like saying Franklin Richards is one of the top 10 smartest people in the world simply because he's got the genes but he's hasn't even passed grade 6 yet. Potential to do something doesn't work in an argument vs actually doing something.

[maxx]

Zeph read my thoughts exactly.

Potentials have nothing to do with it though. That's like saying I'm one of the top 10 MvC2 players in the world... the only reason I'm not is cause I didn't practice. Or it's like saying Franklin Richards is one of the top 10 smartest people in the world simply because he's got the genes but he's hasn't even passed grade 6 yet. Potential to do something doesn't work in an argument vs actually doing something.

uhh how old is franklin? cuz i keep hearing different shit..and i think thats possibly due to some time ravel shenanigans.

[Adam Warlock]

The thing is, Peter Parker is supposed to be considered the "everyman". Stan Lee wanted to create someone everyone could relate to. He's smart, yes, but he only has a bachelor's degree in physics. .

And stark only has a bachelor's in Electrical Engineering. Having the latter, and being just a few credits shy of the former, I'll tell you the Physic's degree is harder.


He created web-shooters when he was 15... but they're nothing more then a souped-up version of a watergun.

If you compare Spider-man's scientific achivements with say... Tony Stark... well I think the achievements speak for themselves.

Last but not least... Tony Stark managed to harness Peter Parker's Spider-Sense and figure out a way to neutralize Peter Parker's own spider-sense. Now that's intelligent.

And Spiderman found a way to neutralize the armor stark made for him WHILE he was in it and under constant surveillance. He even laughs at Tony when he does it (much to Tony's suprise) and says "Now what kind of engineer would I be if I let you outsmart me" or something to that effect. Stop selling Peter short.

[Sano]

With Spidey again, a lot of it comes down to writing and editorial. Bendis writes him like a noob on the current Avengers roster despite him having more experience than the entire team minus Wolverine and Doctor Strange. Marvel constantly makes him look young when it's very hard to believe he is less than 30 years old. Quesada insists the Marvel Universe is only 7 years old making him 22/23... Yeah I dunno how you finish High School and get a 4 year college degree in only 7 years plus everything that has happened to him since then... :confused:

But yeah the way he's written stops people from giving him credit when and where he deserves it. I still like Bendis on Avengers but his noob Spidey is one of the things I tend to ignore to enjoy the rest of the story, at least he makes Spidey crack some good jokes here and there...

[box]

Stop selling Peter short.

I'm not selling Peter short... Marvel is :) From Marvel Encyclopedia:

Peter Parker Intelligence 4 Gifted
Tony Stark Intelligence 6 Super Genius

[Adam Warlock]

I'm not selling Peter short... Marvel is. From Marvel Encyclopedia:

Peter Parker Intelligence 4 Gifted
Tony Stark Intelligence 6 Super Genius

I take marvel ratings with a grain of salt. These are the same people who said wolverine, cable, and sabertooth have mastered EVERY FIGHTING STYLE KNOWN TO MAN.

EDIT: The marvel site says spiderman (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Spiderman) and reed richards both have 7's in intelligence where 7 is the max. Iron man (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Iron_Man)is a 6 sooo...

[Sano]

The online ratings are much worse than the ones in the books for some reason. I know they have the fan rating but something is going on with the official ones. I've never seen an Encyclopedia or a Marvel Universe comic giving Spidey a 7 in intelligence. That means you are omniscient like The Watcher or somebody. :looney:

Oh yeah after One More Day Marvel let out that Spidey will go back to mechanical webshooters somehow...

[box]

I take marvel ratings with a grain of salt. These are the same people who said wolverine, cable, and sabertooth have mastered EVERY FIGHTING STYLE KNOWN TO MAN.

EDIT: The marvel site says spiderman (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Spiderman) and reed richards both have 7's in intelligence where 7 is the max. Iron man (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Iron_Man)is a 6 sooo...

Yeah. The site is way off. The encyclopedias are way more accurate.

[maxx]

so umm how does a gifted kid outsmart a super genius then? we gonna use the skrull excuse?

[Carpet Lint]

Say what?

Encyclopedias, trading cards, who's who's sites...all are based on the comics. Just read and work with what's in the comics. Go direct from the source - why do you want to trust some silly Marvel intern to interpret the comics and come up with some crazy arbitrary number for you when you can just do it yourself?

What are Peter Parker's claim to intelligence fame? He built some webshooters and hacked the armour Tony gave him?

Could Tony Stark have built webshooters and hacked a comparable piece of armour? Rather easily, I'd think.

What are Tony Stark's claim to intelligence fame? Build fifty thousand versions of Iron Man armour that can fight the Hulk, go into space, rollerblade, go invisible, and resist Asgardian magic. He made a form of his arm based on a techno-virus form, that lives inside his own body. Formed a multi-billion dollar company. Become director of SHIELD.

I cannot imagine Peter Parker doing a single one of those things.

It's a pretty simple test, actually - if you can build some suped-up wrist-based waterguns and have an university degree, then you're pretty much as smart as Peter Parker.

[box]

so umm how does a gifted kid outsmart a super genius then? we gonna use the skrull excuse?

The same way when USA loses to other teams in basketball in the olympics. I believe the term is "upset".

[Adam Warlock]

What are Tony Stark's claim to intelligence fame? Build fifty thousand versions of Iron Man armour that can fight the Hulk, go into space, rollerblade, go invisible, and resist Asgardian magic. He made a form of his arm based on a techno-virus form, that lives inside his own body. Formed a multi-billion dollar company. Become director of SHIELD.
.


You guys really think Iron Man did invented all that himself? Did you just conviently skip the part of Civil War where his building gets easily broken into by an ex employee who is disgruntled at the way Stark is using his creations?

[maxx]

Say what?

Encyclopedias, trading cards, who's who's sites...all are based on the comics. Just read and work with what's in the comics. Go direct from the source - why do you want to trust some silly Marvel intern to interpret the comics and come up with some crazy arbitrary number for you when you can just do it yourself?

What are Peter Parker's claim to intelligence fame? He built some webshooters and hacked the armour Tony gave him?

Could Tony Stark have built webshooters and hacked a comparable piece of armour? Rather easily, I'd think.

What are Tony Stark's claim to intelligence fame? Build fifty thousand versions of Iron Man armour that can fight the Hulk, go into space, rollerblade, go invisible, and resist Asgardian magic. He made a form of his arm based on a techno-virus form, that lives inside his own body. Formed a multi-billion dollar company. Become director of SHIELD.

I cannot imagine Peter Parker doing a single one of those things.

It's a pretty simple test, actually - if you can build some suped-up wrist-based waterguns and have an university degree, then you're pretty much as smart as Peter Parker.

spider shooters/impact webbing(thought technically clone)/spider tracers

remember this kids using shit he finds at like garage sales and shit...he's a poor mofo.

[Carpet Lint]

So you don't think that Tony Stark could throw in some impact webbing/stinger type gadgets in his armour next week if he wanted to? You don't think any of the gadgets Iron Man has ever shown are significantly beyond the scope of those things?

Honestly, you don't think Tony Stark could figure out to make impact webbing? Seriously?

And if you do think he can, then why even bother bringing it up!?!

He has a R&D department to build his stuff, but it's silly to think that he doesn't even understand the technology that keeps him alive minute-to-minute and in fights with supervillains.

Yes, it means that there's an increased chance/frequency that guys put random sneak bombs into his armour, but it doesn't mean he couldn't do any of it himself if he had the time or the inclination to stop banging supermodels, boozing up, and swimming in his giant money bin.

And he gets guys to maybe put it together, but he invents all of it himself. If you guys trust the encyclopedias and wiki entries and all that so much, just look in there - they all say he's the inventor. There isn't like an Iron Men 'R Us store he visits, and no it's not like he puts the stuff together alone in his garage...but he invents the stuff and he's built a giant company that can put that crazy technical stuff together for him. He's not going to piece together nanites one-by-one himself. But you can't switch Peter Parker in his place and still except him to keep pumping armours out.

The times when he does buy or adapt someone else's technology into his armour are the exceptions.

Armor Wars - that entire story was about how the armour designs that Tony Stark personally designed himself were being misused by the US government and SHIELD and everyone Spymaster sold the designs to. Like the Guardsmen in the Vault, all those SHIELD dudes that looked like Legion from Green Lantern that I don't remember the names of, that Russian Titanium Man dude...all those guys. Tony Stark invented the armour himself. He got like an Asian assist with the first crappy gray armour...but that's it. The rest is him.

[maxx]

question: when did stark's intelligence come into play..cause i dont know about him as a kid or teen..just the adult alcoholic man. was he always this super genius or sumtin he developed more in adulthood?

[Adam Warlock]

No, he's always been a super genius. That's how he graduated from MIT at 15.

[Steve F]

Don't know why there's a huge Iron Man/Spidey debate. As far as I know, it's obvious who is smarter, and I haven't seen Spider-Man written as a super genius. Yes, he's made a few inventions, but the majority of time isn't spent doing scientific work.

[Zephyranthes]

Spider-Man was SMART enough to make the Spider-Armor. When I was a kid, I had that one issue of Web of Spider-Man with the holografix cover where he rocked it. Spider-Armor, baby! It was a gray/silver, armored version of Spider-Man's suit!! And he made it himself!!!

Wait. Actually, I think that just shows that Tony Stark is the real genius.

[goodm0urning]

Spider-Man was SMART enough to make the Spider-Armor. When I was a kid, I had that one issue of Web of Spider-Man with the holografix cover where he rocked it. Spider-Armor, baby! It was a gray/silver, armored version of Spider-Man's suit!! And he made it himself!!!

Wait. Actually, I think that just shows that Tony Stark is the real genius.But which toy sold more: the Stark-designed Spidey suit action figure or the silver armor Spidey action figure?

That's right. Whatever Tony Stark built his fortune on, it wasn't merchandising. As far as Toys R Us is concerned, Pete's idea was way better.

[kane_warhead]

You guys always forget that Peter always try to improvise his gadgets to beat his foes.

The only thing that makes Tony better is his access to multi-million dollar gadgets which Peter doesn't have access too.

[Adam Warlock]

The only thing that makes Tony better is his access to multi-million dollar gadgets which Peter doesn't have access too.

Exactly. To say that Tony is out of Peter's league is crazy to me.

Carpet Lint: By your logic, Amadeus cho isn't smart because he hasn't invented anything on the level of Iron Man yet. We just accept his placement because Reed says it's true.

[box]

FYI, in the latest issue of the Amazing Spider-Man (One More Day)... they listed Peter Parker as having an intelligence rating of 4 (gifted) in the profiles.

No encyclopedias, no bunky websites... straight from the latest comic book.

[box]

But which toy sold more: the Stark-designed Spidey suit action figure or the silver armor Spidey action figure?

That's right. Whatever Tony Stark built his fortune on, it wasn't merchandising. As far as Toys R Us is concerned, Pete's idea was way better.

Sidenote: wizarduniverse.com held a poll on what fans thought was the worst Spider-man costume ever. I think the rankings ended up:

1) Silver Spider-Armor
2) scarlet spider
3) red and gold spider-armor
4) Ben Reilly Spider-man
5) spider-man 2099

[Carpet Lint]

Iron Man's silver armour looked pimp in the versus games - was it A1 that got it in MvC2?

All I've read about Amadeus Cho was the World War Hulk preview or whatever issue he was in. He hasn't been around as much right? So it's understandable if he doesn't have much of a track record yet. At this point, the fact that super intelligence is his power and Reed Richard actually labels him as the seventh smartest guy in the world...that should be enough cred.

On the flip side, Peter Parker does not have super intelligence. He's spent all this time and money in school, to get like a bachelors or a doctorate or whatever the heck he has in biochemistry or physics or whatever, which distinguishes him in no way to the millions of people with those degrees and more in REAL LIFE.

If he was so smart, how come he couldn't graduate MIT at age 15 like Tony Stark, how come he couldn't get multiple doctorates in chemistry, psychology, criminology, Batmanology or whatever like Bruce Wayne did in his teens? Charles Xavier graduated from Harvard with honours as a teenager. Lack of opportunity and money? Really? Peter's never really been written as a guy that could do that even if he had the opportunity.

Regardless, even if he didn't have the opportunity, we're not talking potential - maybe Grant Hill or Antonio McDyess could have been a Hall of Famers if they didn't wreck their legs, but they did, and they're not in the discussion.

However...

Still in that one single issue I've read with Amadeus Cho, he managed to...

- Get SHIELD after him because he was just so smart.

- Hack into the Baxter Building's security system with that little PSP looking thingy he had that probably built himself.

- Redirected a laser guided missile using a car's side mirror.

- He put something in the soda he gave to She-Hulk that neutralized the Tony Stark created nanobots that were negating her powers.

And he's a teenager! What the fuck, I've never seen Spidey do anything like that.

This is just silly - there's absolutely no precedence or evidence regarding how smart Peter Parker is. You guys are saying that if he had Tony's money and resources that he could build fifty thousand Iron Man armours that would be just as good as Tony's?

Shut up with that. That's also ignoring HOW Tony Stark got all that money and those resources in the first place - BECAUSE HE IS SMART

Peter Parker is on the run from the law and broke. What a super genius.

Peter Parker has webshooters and a top-selling Spidey Armour action figure. That is it. There's nothing else to suggest he's even smarter than the average university graduate. And you guys are saying he's a top 10 brain in the Marvel universe?

Say what?

Bruce Banner, The Leader, The Mad Thinker, Mr. Sinister, Beast, Charles Xavier, Hank Pym, The Fixer, Norman Osborn, Curt Connors, Dr. Octopus, Black Panther...I mean that's almost a dozen guys just off the top of my head that are smarter than Peter Parker, and that's not even including Doom, Reed, Tony, or any of the twenty or so cosmic guys (ie. Thanos, Galactus), or even the normal non-powered scientific minds (ie. Moira MacTaggert, that Indian doctor from Astonishing X-Men, whatever AIM dude invented the Cosmic Cube).

Peter Parker is one of the most clever and maybe witty...but raw booksmarts...there's just nothing extraordinary there.

I WIN THIS COMIC BOOK ARGUMENT

[Adam Warlock]

Shut up with that. That's also ignoring HOW Tony Stark got all that money and those resources in the first place - BECAUSE HE IS SMART


No, his dad gave it to him. Try again. Peter didn't go to M.I.T. and shit because while tony was doing that, Peter Parker was SPIDERMAN. Tony's fulltime job was student/inventor. Parker's was saving people's asses and building stuff out of his lunch money.

I'm not saying he's top ten; I'm saying Stark isnt in a totally different league like people claim.

[kane_warhead]

Iron Man's silver armour looked pimp in the versus games - was it A1 that got it in MvC2?

All I've read about Amadeus Cho was the World War Hulk preview or whatever issue he was in. He hasn't been around as much right? So it's understandable if he doesn't have much of a track record yet. At this point, the fact that super intelligence is his power and Reed Richard actually labels him as the seventh smartest guy in the world...that should be enough cred.

On the flip side, Peter Parker does not have super intelligence. He's spent all this time and money in school, to get like a bachelors or a doctorate or whatever the heck he has in biochemistry or physics or whatever, which distinguishes him in no way to the millions of people with those degrees and more in REAL LIFE.

If he was so smart, how come he couldn't graduate MIT at age 15 like Tony Stark, how come he couldn't get multiple doctorates in chemistry, psychology, criminology, Batmanology or whatever like Bruce Wayne did in his teens? Charles Xavier graduated from Harvard with honours as a teenager. Lack of opportunity and money? Really? Peter's never really been written as a guy that could do that even if he had the opportunity.

Regardless, even if he didn't have the opportunity, we're not talking potential - maybe Grant Hill or Antonio McDyess could have been a Hall of Famers if they didn't wreck their legs, but they did, and they're not in the discussion.

However...

Still in that one single issue I've read with Amadeus Cho, he managed to...

- Get SHIELD after him because he was just so smart.

- Hack into the Baxter Building's security system with that little PSP looking thingy he had that probably built himself.

- Redirected a laser guided missile using a car's side mirror.

- He put something in the soda he gave to She-Hulk that neutralized the Tony Stark created nanobots that were negating her powers.

And he's a teenager! What the fuck, I've never seen Spidey do anything like that.

This is just silly - there's absolutely no precedence or evidence regarding how smart Peter Parker is. You guys are saying that if he had Tony's money and resources that he could build fifty thousand Iron Man armours that would be just as good as Tony's?

Shut up with that. That's also ignoring HOW Tony Stark got all that money and those resources in the first place - BECAUSE HE IS SMART

Peter Parker is on the run from the law and broke. What a super genius.

Peter Parker has webshooters and a top-selling Spidey Armour action figure. That is it. There's nothing else to suggest he's even smarter than the average university graduate. And you guys are saying he's a top 10 brain in the Marvel universe?

Say what?

Bruce Banner, The Leader, The Mad Thinker, Mr. Sinister, Beast, Charles Xavier, Hank Pym, The Fixer, Norman Osborn, Curt Connors, Dr. Octopus, Black Panther...I mean that's almost a dozen guys just off the top of my head that are smarter than Peter Parker, and that's not even including Doom, Reed, Tony, or any of the twenty or so cosmic guys (ie. Thanos, Galactus), or even the normal non-powered scientific minds (ie. Moira MacTaggert, that Indian doctor from Astonishing X-Men, whatever AIM dude invented the Cosmic Cube).

Peter Parker is one of the most clever and maybe witty...but raw booksmarts...there's just nothing extraordinary there.

I WIN THIS COMIC BOOK ARGUMENT


Are you kidding me? Reed Richards, Tony Stark and Dr. Doom weren't doing that when they were teenagers. Just because Amadeus Cho was able to do those, doesn't mean anything. Peter Parker was a fulltime superhero and he wable to beat alot of people. He beat Kingpin, Norman Osborn and etc. while he was still a teenager. Amadeus needs Hulk to do his thing... Peter could do it solo and doesn't need help from anyone.

[maxx]

correct me if im wrong cause i'm going by wiki.

isn't amadeus cho only super-smart because of a superpower? peters smart because dude tried hard.

like amadeus can do these insane calculations because its a power he has.

[Zephyranthes]

So beating people up with your fists is what it takes to be recognized as one of the smartest people in a comic book universe? We're back to that again? Come on. We've already analyzed this argument from every possible angle.

You're giving way too much credit for Spidey's inventions. Spider-tracers? Okay, fine. Rubber boots to fight Electro? I'll give him that. But Spider-Armor? How about the Spider-Mobile? Remember that? Obviously, there have been people who've written Spider-Man comics over the years who had a sense of humor. (Or possibly a lack of one - which would be very disturbing and possibly traumatize me for life if this were the case.)

Shit like the Spider-Mobile is there to bring a smile to your face and make you laugh. It doesn't mean Spider-Man is actually smart enough to invent a brand new car built out of Hostess Twinkies and that can drive on walls. If you took that seriously, as an example of Peter Parker's genius, then I have nothing more to say, except perhaps, "Either I win or you lose. Choose quickly."

[Adam Warlock]

So beating people up with your fists is what it takes to be recognized as one of the smartest people in a comic book universe? We're back to that again? Come on. We've already analyzed this argument from every possible angle.

You're giving way too much credit for Spidey's inventions. Spider-tracers? Okay, fine. Rubber boots to fight Electro? I'll give him that. But Spider-Armor? How about the Spider-Mobile? Remember that? Obviously, there have been people who've written Spider-Man comics over the years who had a sense of humor. (Or possibly a lack of one - which would be very disturbing and possibly traumatize me for life if this were the case.)

Shit like the Spider-Mobile is there to bring a smile to your face and make you laugh. It doesn't mean Spider-Man is actually smart enough to invent a brand new car built out of Hostess Twinkies and that can drive on walls. If you took that seriously, as an example of Peter Parker's genius, then I have nothing more to say, except perhaps, "Either I win or you lose. Choose quickly."


Don't you quote my sig on me!

[box]

isn't amadeus cho only super-smart because of a superpower? peters smart because dude tried hard.


Just because the guy tries hard... doesn't put him in the top 10 smartest people in the marvel universe. Whenever there is a threat of planet threatening proportions... they don't turn to Spider-Man. They turn to Tony Stark, Reed Richards, etc.

Spider-man is smarter then say, Captain America, or Wolverine, or Daredevil even... but to put him on the same level as Tony/Reed/Pym/McCoy/Xavier level is laughable. There's a difference between gifted, and super-genius.

[maxx]

i was just asking about the power cause it seems to kinda downplay amadeus.

[Carpet Lint]

No, his dad gave it to him. Try again. Peter didn't go to M.I.T. and shit because while tony was doing that, Peter Parker was SPIDERMAN. Tony's fulltime job was student/inventor. Parker's was saving people's asses and building stuff out of his lunch money.
Pft, yeah, whatever - Tony Stark has lost and rebuilt his company so many times it's just silly.

I vaguely remember reading about how once his parents died in the car accident and he inherited all the money, he went and took over the company that produced those cars. LOL, cold blooded.

I want to take over a company, rename it Everyone Who Works Here Is A Bitch Incorporated, and then just lay everyone off.

I'm not saying he's top ten; I'm saying Stark isnt in a totally different league like people claim.
I think that if you took away all the different variations of the armour and just told him to rebuild everything himself, he could do it. He personally invents like 95% of it all, and the other 5% he's at least learned up about it all anyway.

Did Tony Stark and Dr. Doom build a time machine out of Medieval Age supplies when they traveled back into King Arthur's timeline? ...or was that like an Elseworlds? ...that sounds pretty ridiculous, actually. Comic books are retarded.

Are you kidding me? Reed Richards, Tony Stark and Dr. Doom weren't doing that when they were teenagers. Just because Amadeus Cho was able to do those, doesn't mean anything. Peter Parker was a fulltime superhero and he wable to beat alot of people. He beat Kingpin, Norman Osborn and etc. while he was still a teenager. Amadeus needs Hulk to do his thing... Peter could do it solo and doesn't need help from anyone.
See, I don't even know what this means.

Like Mr. Fantastic has beat Galactus and Iron Man's beat Kang...so what does that mean? Ben Grimm and Wonderman have beat Galactus and Kang as well - does that mean they're smart too? And those are on top of having solo superhero careers, being part of teams, having legitimate money making careers to look after, and personal lives as well. Reed Richards and all those guys are celebrities, remember, and are prominently involved in high brow social gatherings, charities, and all that - same with Tony Stark except he spends a lot of time living the sexually irresponsible playboy lifestyle as well.

They have even less time than Peter Parker and have still accomplished more.

What was Peter doing as a teenager? Getting beat up in high school everyday. What was Dr. Doom doing as a teenager? Becoming an accomplished sorcerer, earning a scholarship for a school on the opposite side of the world, and TAKING OVER LATVERIA in his spare time. Fuck Queens, dude was a GYPSY! Motherfucker was sleeping in a tent and running water was unheard of!

All those guys had like doctorates by like age 15 - Peter Parker wasn't even smart enough to get a full scholarship when he got into university at the normal age everyone else gets into university at.

Was anyone else a high school honours student and graduated university? Congratulations, you're just about as smart as Spider-Man.

I just don't understand all the talk about "oh, he was poor" - if he was smart, he couldn't he have like...not been poor? If he was so smart, wouldn't he have been able to spend less time studying then? If you're smart, you figure out how to make time.

Remember when Ezekiel came around, and he was the head of a billion dollar company? He asked Spidey why he didn't use the advantages the spider had given him to make something of his life, and his answer was basically "Uh...I didn't you could do that."

Spider-Man's got a good science background and picks things up very quickly...but genius he ain't.

[Adam Warlock]

wtf? YOUR MOMMA AIN'T A GENIUS. WHAT NOW, BITCH?

[kane_warhead]

See, I don't even know what this means.

Like Mr. Fantastic has beat Galactus and Iron Man's beat Kang...so what does that mean? Ben Grimm and Wonderman have beat Galactus and Kang as well - does that mean they're smart too? And those are on top of having solo superhero careers, being part of teams, having legitimate money making careers to look after, and personal lives as well. Reed Richards and all those guys are celebrities, remember, and are prominently involved in high brow social gatherings, charities, and all that - same with Tony Stark except he spends a lot of time living the sexually irresponsible playboy lifestyle as well.

They have even less time than Peter Parker and have still accomplished more.

I'm saying that at that age, Peter Parker was already deep in the the super-hero business that he can't juggle between his school work, personal life, freelance work and super hero work.

If you look at it this way, Reed stopped being a super genius when he became a superhero. Oh comeon for all its worth, he can't even convert Ben Grimm back to his human form. It's a big plothole, every guy who became a super hero stop being a genius.

And Mind you, Peter's web fluid formula is unique. No one has been able to duplicate it yet. I'm not saying that Peter can hang around Doom, but he's up there. maybe top 15 or 20.

Anyone remember Mad Thinker? I think he's 3rd smartest person in Marvel Comics.

[Zephyranthes]

If you look at it this way, Reed stopped being a super genius when he became a superhero. Oh comeon for all its worth, he can't even convert Ben Grimm back to his human form. It's a big plothole, every guy who became a super hero stop being a genius.

That's not true. He's as much a super genius now as he ever was. The FF are a family first, then a team of IMAGINAUTS, and THEN a team of superheroes. Maybe that indisputable fact isn't in your fancy schmancy wikis, guidebooks, encyclopedias, and handbooks.

How does the FF make their money to support their ridiculously fancy skyscraper headquarters? No, it's not by bounty hunting. Reed makes bank off patents for new inventions every day.

Reed once made a PDA that "downloads via subspace transmission to a neighboring dimension of pure electrochemical energy" with infinite storage capacity. Sony paid him three million bucks to NOT market it. And that's a device Reed makes just so he can use to jot down his better ideas.

He comes up with a bajillion new inventions and ideas every day.

Reed's also a member of "Cause Cerebral," the Marvel steroid version of MENSA. He's been a member since he was seventeen years old. Peter Parker isn't even in MENSA. How can he be in the top 30 smartest people in the Marvel Universe?

And about not being able to help Ben Grimm return to normal - it's proven fact that Ben is okay being the Thing. For all his complaining and all of the "This Man... This MONSTER!!" moments, Ben has had at least two chances to remain a normal human. And he chose not, because he'd rather be an IMAGINAUT, BABY. Even when Reed did figure out a way to help Ben return to normal, Ben declined it.

People like Reed and Tony are applied geniuses. The things they invent affect the world. All Spider-Man has is a line of action figures, and he isn't even smart enough to figure out how to collect the royalties from those.


Anyone remember Mad Thinker? I think he's 3rd smartest person in Marvel Comics.

Anyone remember the comic where Richard and Mary Parker were Agents of SHIELD and teamed up with Wolverine?

[Sheng-Long]

Yeah. I find it amusing when people are utterly misinformed and ignorant. Makes me feel big.

A bitter Iron Man fan. You must be a devil with the ladies.

I find it amusing that your reply isn't as verbose as it usually is and that the irony is lost enough on you that on a Friday night you project your sexual frustrations by bringing up as a counter-argument somebody else's life as a distraction to your inadequacy.

...but speaking of projection....

....
if anything we should claim spider-man...dude was essentially black. didn't know his dad/died died...poor...struggles to make ends meet...dates a white woman...

So this is why you keep on insisting that Parker failed to achieve his full potential because "The Man" denied him of those opportunities?

jesus talk about a disgruntled fanboy.
bet your hoping tony's a skrull right now.

I'm not hoping for anything. Tony fought the SHIELD many times before and his decision in Civil War is totally in character because this is the 3rd major time he had problems with SHIELD. But because he's a smart and effective character, he decided that this time he should take some control of SHIELD before they get the best of him again.

I'm nowhere near disgruntled. I'm not the one projecting myself and my worldview on a character that is absent in their continuity.

[Carpet Lint]

Haha, IMAGINAUTS - Mark Waid, you crazy.

wtf? YOUR MOMMA AIN'T A GENIUS. WHAT NOW, BITCH?
Classless, and completely unnecessary. Absolutely no reason to bring my mother's lack of genius into this. I'm reporting you to sano.

Regardless, the reason (true or not) Peter Parker's not a genius is irrelevant when we're just talking about whether or not he's a genius. Doesn't really matter why he's a big dummy, just that he is. Because then we can start talking about all the poor intercity kids that are denied a proper education system as children and how they maybe possibly could have grown up to be the king of Wakanda or some crazy shit.

But as it is, you either slingin' crack rocks or you got a wicked jumpshot - ain't no other way out the ghetto.

EDIT: This is awesome because I posted this before I saw Shengy accusing maxx of trying to sneakily draft Spidey under the table for the blacks. So that's why there's so much talk about "The Man" holding him down. This is collusion!

Is that even the correct usage of the word collusion? I don't even care! COLLUSION!!!

[Sano]

I'm reporting you to sano.



Lol all I'm doing is repping who I can this is discussion is teh awesome! So you're not watching Boondocks Carpet Lint? THANK YOU FOR NOT SNITCHING! :looney:

[goodm0urning]

I find it amusing that your reply isn't as verbose as it usually is and that the irony is lost enough on you that on a Friday night you project your sexual frustrations by bringing up as a counter-argument somebody else's life as a distraction to your inadequacy.I hope the irony is not lost on you that you are making fun of what you view to be my poor grasp of irony, in spite of the fact that my statement, in itself, was ironic. Maybe you would have gotten it if you weren't too busy taking everything way too seriously, including yourself.

[kane_warhead]

That's not true. He's as much a super genius now as he ever was. The FF are a family first, then a team of IMAGINAUTS, and THEN a team of superheroes. Maybe that indisputable fact isn't in your fancy schmancy wikis, guidebooks, encyclopedias, and handbooks.

How does the FF make their money to support their ridiculously fancy skyscraper headquarters? No, it's not by bounty hunting. Reed makes bank off patents for new inventions every day.

Reed once made a PDA that "downloads via subspace transmission to a neighboring dimension of pure electrochemical energy" with infinite storage capacity. Sony paid him three million bucks to NOT market it. And that's a device Reed makes just so he can use to jot down his better ideas.

He comes up with a bajillion new inventions and ideas every day.

Reed's also a member of "Cause Cerebral," the Marvel steroid version of MENSA. He's been a member since he was seventeen years old. Peter Parker isn't even in MENSA. How can he be in the top 30 smartest people in the Marvel Universe?

And about not being able to help Ben Grimm return to normal - it's proven fact that Ben is okay being the Thing. For all his complaining and all of the "This Man... This MONSTER!!" moments, Ben has had at least two chances to remain a normal human. And he chose not, because he'd rather be an IMAGINAUT, BABY. Even when Reed did figure out a way to help Ben return to normal, Ben declined it.



It's just recently that Reed patented his inventions. Before Reed was stockpiling his inventions. Warren Ellis even made it into an issue by parodying the fantastic four in his Planetary comics. The Four there didn't share the inventions they made to the world.


People like Reed and Tony are applied geniuses. The things they invent affect the world. All Spider-Man has is a line of action figures, and he isn't even smart enough to figure out how to collect the royalties from those.

His Iron man armor didn't affect the world. Reed has inventions that could even be great(but he used to just keep it to himself), even if you read the various sources... It was very recent when he gave some of his inventions to the world.

I can give you that one, Spiderman is dumb businesswise. Tony Stark is smart in both fields. Reed is also dumb at making money.

[Adam Warlock]

If you want to talk about holding black people down, I've got one name for you: Reed Richards. What, you thought crack invented itself? It was the seventies. There was a diesel negro running around in tights, a 12 inch afro, and a tiara. Lets not forget he was strong enough to tear a liquor store in half for a case of O.E., and when shot, have his skin go all Kal-El on the bullets. What was he after? His arrogant moniker made it clear: Power, Man! The government couldn't leave him running around unchecked. Reed Richards was more than up for the task. In exchange for large, undisclosed sums of money, Reed Richards would create population control measures cor the government. Reed Richards invented crack, A.I.D.S. (But oddly enough, not H.I.V., the virus that causes A.I.D.S.) and Linkin Park.

[akumatrunigga]

as i go through this thread alot of spidey hate :lol: all i care about that bp is one of the top guys in marvel.

If you want to talk about holding black people down, I've got one name for you: Reed Richards. What, you thought crack invented itself? It was the seventies. There was a diesel negro running around in tights, a 12 inch afro, and a tiara. Lets not forget he was strong enough to tear a liquor store in half for a case of O.E., and when shot, have his skin go all Kal-El on the bullets. What was he after? His arrogant moniker made it clear: Power, Man! The government couldn't leave him running around unchecked. Reed Richards was more than up for the task. In exchange for large, undisclosed sums of money, Reed Richards would create population control measures cor the government. Reed Richards invented crack, A.I.D.S. (But oddly enough, not H.I.V., the virus that causes A.I.D.S.) and Linkin Park. you cant be serious right? But then again he had a villian named cottonmouth (look up black heroes thread for info) i'll need to update it soon.

[darksoul173]

Joins the spidey is smart but not a genius side, If he was a genius Beast would ask for his opinion in ES right? i he mean was consulting with the greatest minds and evil minds in the world

[box]

His Iron man armor didn't affect the world. Reed has inventions that could even be great(but he used to just keep it to himself), even if you read the various sources... It was very recent when he gave some of his inventions to the world.

I'm not sure if you've read the recent Mighty Avengers... but Tony Stark invented satellites that can control the weather. The program is only at phase 2 and hasn't been brought to the United Nations for approval... but if sucessful, could stop starvation on a global scale.

Definitely something that would affect the world.

[Zephyranthes]

It's just recently that Reed patented his inventions. Before Reed was stockpiling his inventions.

That's not true. How do you think they made all that money? Patents and merchandising. The Baxter Building, the Four Freedoms Plaza - the good people of New York didn't just give those to the FF for free.


Warren Ellis even made it into an issue by parodying the fantastic four in his Planetary comics. The Four there didn't share the inventions they made to the world.

That's Planetary. We're talking Fantastic Four. Otherwise, I should be able to say that Superman is the leader of a child pornography ring because I've read Top Ten.


Hi