Super meter system

[RagingStormX]

So what kind should be implemented? The good ol three level bar or third strike system, or something completely new? Should CCs be included or maybe choose a meter like CvS2, what are your thoughts?

[goodm0urning]

None.

[xero15]

i liked the super meters from third strike but this time let us use all the supers at will.

[Hellion]

I don't really like the "choose this" approach of some of the newer games.
What you end up with are whole strategies that are ditched in competitive play because quite simply the better ones own up the lesser ones just that badly.
That said, fuck CC's.
They never, ever get those right, even when they try to tone it down plenty.

[RagingStormX]

I wouldnt mind some sort of new system, but other than that i like c-groove/a-ism type meters. CCs are fun, but they cant seem to get it right. I was think maybe make CCs do a set amount of damage no matter what type of custom, and maybe be able to combo into it that way it wouldnt be to broken., just a thought.

[Shin_Shinyuken]

I don't care as long as The Hado-Shoryuken (http://youtube.com/watch?v=p-Uw6z4xMFA) is included.

Who's with me? :wgrin:

[DevilJin 01]

Parry meter. More you parry, the more money you receive to buy weapons, ammo, food, clothes etc.

[Tinshi]

I think the option of supers is amazing idea it creates different play styles from rushdown all the way to turtling. Then their is just simple zoning until meter is built.

[RagingStormX]

I think multiple meters are good if one groove doesnt completely overshadow the other. As long as there is balance. Hell I wouldnt even mind ST super meter, as long as the game is good :)

[sailboat]

an idea i just had (as much as i love supers, simple three bar meters, or single bar like super turbo):

what if capcom did something similar to the Garou T.O.P. system, but instead of having meters as well, you can only perform supers in TOP mode, so that way you can cater to turtlers, people who like to rushdown, etc etc.. and maybe have like a set of 3 stocks or something.. or maybe varying how many stocks by where you select your TOP zone..

just a thought

[PsychoShonen]

I think the option of supers is amazing idea it creates different play styles from rushdown all the way to turtling. Then their is just simple zoning until meter is built.

In order for that to work well, all of the supers for the character need to be all equally good (which is impossible, really) or else you will get what Hellion said in his post.

[pherai]

Parry meter. More you parry, the more money you receive to buy weapons, ammo, food, clothes etc.

Where do you get exp points from then?

[bombchivo]

I don't care as long as The Hado-Shoryuken (http://youtube.com/watch?v=p-Uw6z4xMFA) is included.

Who's with me? :wgrin:

hell yeah, and have it be as dramatic in the game as it is there!!!:lol:

[hellhound]

Seeing as how SF has super meters in alpha SF2 and SF3 I can only guess that there will be also in SF4.

My guess for a new twist is a side step move (if it's 3D) That way the opponents super move can be tactically avoided rather than just blocking.

[BBSF]

Would prefer no super meter, but if it's in,

X-Ism length, no building meter by whiffing normals, meter stays over rounds, supers do not have ST invincibility frames.

[polarity]

i'd like a super meter system that actually requires you to make involved, interesting strategical choices and resource management with it like tension does in GG, rather than the traditional SF "i have meter so now i can intimidate you because i can do a lot of damage" which is really not that strategically interesting at all. SFA2 was a start but CCs and ACs were also stupid overpowered options so it ended up killing depth in other areas. i don't think meter has really added much positive to any SF, and that's a good reason to change how it works.

no meter at all would be fine with me too though, but i'd imagine that won't happen.

[shinblanka]

Would prefer no super meter, but if it's in,

X-Ism length, no building meter by whiffing normals, meter stays over rounds, supers do not have ST invincibility frames.

If the super have no invicible frames then why call it a super? Why even waste time/space in sf4 if you can jab or throw a character out of their strongest move? Its called a super move/super art for a reason! What you want is a."pretty good move/pretty good art" not a super! Man the more I read this sf4 section the more I feel sf4 is going to suck monkeyballs if capcom listen to the fanboys on srk.

[polarity]

If the super have no invicible frames then why call it a super? Why even waste time/space in sf4 if you can jab or throw a character out of their strongest move? Its called a super move/super art for a reason! What you want is a."pretty good move/pretty good art" not a super! Man the more I read this sf4 section the more I feel sf4 is going to suck monkeyballs if capcom listen to the fanboys on srk.

You can do interesting, powerful stuff with supers that doesn't require them to have invincibility. The fact that meter usage in SF has barely evolved beyond "I have a big invincible move that does a lot of damage" is a problem that needs to be tackled IMO.

[arstal]

I'd like to see a Samsho rage explosion type meter. You could use it to break a combo (but could activate anytime), then you'd have a timer to use your super. You lose meter for the first of the round/fight when it's over.

The rage explosion would reset the fight, and knock the other guy back a bit. You couldn't rage explode out of special moves, just normals and in blockstun. You could rage explode after a special.

EX specials should be kept, and should be the primary use for meter.

The Super should be only useable during a rage explosion- but be as powerful as they are in ST. Super damage should be scaleable to the amount of meter you have left- so chucking it early will make it do more, or having a meter. I'd prefer a once per round approach instead of once per match.

As for gaining meter- I'd like to see it done by six ways:

Taking damage
having moves blocked
having throws teched
Counter Hits
Charging
Personal Action

I wouldn't mind having different chars gain meter differently,based on "personality"
For example, Ryu would have a calm personality- and gains meter by charging and counter hits best, and not so much by having moves blocked.

A Balrog-personality type would get mad, he'd gain meter best by taking damage and having moves blocked.

They'd be able to gain meter with the other methods, but more slowly. Charging would be done by holding joystick neutral for a bit, then you'd slowly charge until an input was pressed.

That might be overcomplicated, but at least it would be semi-unique and should be balanceable and not encourage stupidity like whiffing grabs at max range, or whiffing normals at full screen.

[Sanji Himura]

You can do interesting, powerful stuff with supers that doesn't require them to have invincibility. The fact that meter usage in SF has barely evolved beyond "I have a big invincible move that does a lot of damage" is a problem that needs to be tackled IMO.Agreed 125%.

My ideal super meter system actually takes a page from SvR '08. Why? Because the most broken system is accented by the fact that all characters can build meter all the same way. SvR, while a broken game in itself, actually introduces several concepts that Capcom can use to build meter.

Capcom can take these two concepts and develop a system based on them.

1. Make the player build meter by actually developing offense to gain momentum. Let's fact it, 3s's system is just push MK until you actually gain meter and then threaten your opponent with a super move is a sign that there needs to be fresh blood in the development team, and besides, it doesn't encourage any offense in the early seconds between two good players.

If Capcom wishes to empliment the system easily, they can simply have a momentum meter on the bottom of the screen that you can execute a super when the meter is full, but put a time limit on when you can execute the move.

2. Make the player build meter according to the character type, but not exactly what the guy upstairs is suggesting. SvR 08 actually types each character according to style, and have type specific moves geared to those characters. Building meter for SF4 can take each character, put them into four types, combo, techinical, defensive, and basic, and have a way to build meter for each character. Do keep in mind that the character's type should not interchange. Assign a character a CvS 2 groove and you will get what I mean.

[BBSF]

If the super have no invicible frames then why call it a super? Why even waste time/space in sf4 if you can jab or throw a character out of their strongest move? Its called a super move/super art for a reason! What you want is a."pretty good move/pretty good art" not a super! Man the more I read this sf4 section the more I feel sf4 is going to suck monkeyballs if capcom listen to the fanboys on srk.

ST invincibility window is too large, letting characters blow through a fireball/normal for a move that does very high damage and often decides rounds.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5vNFYa-8l7k&feature=related 0:54, 1:30.

I would prefer it like some of the A2 level 1 supers, where ryu's level 1 super fireball would hit, but the poke would hit as well.

As for gaining meter- I'd like to see it done by six ways:

Taking damage
having moves blocked
having throws teched
Counter Hits
Charging
Personal Action

Meter should not be given for making a mistake and getting hit IMO, don't think it should be given for having a throw teched either.

[arstal]

The person who had their throw teched would gain the meter. As for getting hit- that already happens in SF. It's also a balance mechanism to make sure that people would get one super per match.

[polarity]

Here's the problem with meter building; if you give players meter for taking offensive action, you're rewarding them for actions which have already netted them damage, and then you're allowing them more damage? Conversely, if you give players meter for taking defensive action/getting hit, you're effectively giving a player that's done nothing to deserve it a powerful comeback tool.

Preferable to me would be a meter that builds at a fixed rate. The game would provide a variety of strong, character-specific options which each use different amounts of meter. The point here is to make using your meter a real strategic choice. For example, one character might be able to use a powerful, comboable move that does a lot of damage with their meter, but they could also have a lack of good AAs/invincible reversals except one that requires meter. You therefore have to make a choice; you can use the huge-damaging super, but if you get knocked down later on, you could really be in trouble. This system forces you to make real strategic choices which could have a huge effect on the match. It also plays into mind games, as your opponent could try to trick you into spending your meter at a bad time in order to neutralize a potential threat that requires meter. Obviously this happens to some degree already, but it could be exploited a lot more and in much more interesting ways. I'd really like to see RTS-style resource management worked into fighting games a little more, I think it does a lot for depth as it means decisions you make early on in the game can really have implications extending right through to the endgame, which is something fighting games lack at times.

edit: actually, fuck regenerating meter, lol. just start the round with full meter and you don't get it back until the next round. that forces you to make real choices, and if you screw up you can't just run away/turtle until you get your meter back to resume fighting.

[arstal]

Both those ideas have merit- but fixed meter per round might not make it through on account of being "unfun"

My above system- running away and whiffing normals, or running away and doing something low-risk, would not gain you meter. Neither would turtling (As you'd be blocking hits, you only get meter for getting hit)

The real strategic choice idea is good though- how I'd like to see meter used.

[BigRick70]

edit: actually, fuck regenerating meter, lol. just start the round with full meter and you don't get it back until the next round. that forces you to make real choices, and if you screw up you can't just run away/turtle until you get your meter back to resume fighting.

I like this idea... but how meter is going to be used could make or break it...

- Would supers take 50% of the bar?
- Return of the MAX style super? 100% of the bar?
- Return of the Alpha Counter?
- Return of EX moves? 25% of the bar?
- Meter draining Parries? :confused: j/k dont bother with that crap lol

But before sum1 comes in and says: ''hai with this we could make fireballs drain meter''

I immediately say: No way!

[polarity]

Yeah, how the meter is used would really be important. You need to find a magic spot where the tools meter gives you are strong and useful, but not so strong that you can barely do anything without meter, or fighting without meter is meaningless because of how powerful your options with meter are. I think 3S has a problem with characters feeling way too weak and without focus when they have no meter, and CvS2 has a problem with many supers being able to negate a whole round's worth of superior play off a single guess.

I think the solution to this is pretty simple though; make the majority of your meter-using options not simply tools to land huge damage, but strategical advantages that would just be too powerful if they were an unlimited resource. Furthermore, these options should be coherent with the nature of the character, rather than providing solutions to situations they otherwise have trouble with, unlike in SF (especially ST) where some characters depend wholly on getting meter to overcome a matchup that is naturally disadvantageous without meter. I think GG does this well with stuff like Sol's Gunflame FRC and Venom's Dark Angel; you spend meter on these not for the damage they give you, but for the advantageous situations they create. If there's a flaw with this setup in GG I think it's that meter builds so fast that you don't really have to consider playing in a certain way, deliberately choosing not to spend meter in certain situations because you want to save it for some other occasion. Rather, if you find yourself in a position where you can use meter then you use it, which kind of negates the whole idea of providing a variety of options with limited resources to force thoughtful resource management.

edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I don't really mind the idea of being able to build meter, but I think the fact that in current fighting games you get it for stuff that you'd generally be doing anyway (whiffing normals for meter aside) kinda restricts depth a bit. To compare this to a genre which has much deeper and more involved resource management, one of the things that makes StarCraft so deep (even though casual players hate it) is the fact that the unit management system is so clunky and awkward that expanding (kind of the SC equivalent of building meter, to grossly oversimplify things) comes at a real cost in terms of how much attention you can then dedicate to other tasks. Thus, for example, if you choose to expand at the same time as microing a battle, your management of the battle is going to suffer, so you might choose to lose one particular battle in order to focus on expanding, or you might forgo expanding and focus on winning the battle. Either way, a real strategical choice has been made which will influence the rest of the game. Fighting games have approached this in some ways (old KOF's charging system, the characters that can build stocks in GG) but none of them have taken it anywhere near this far.

[hellhound]

whoaa a wall of text. There goes my eyes. sol

[DarkNecrid]

I would like to see the standard SF2 Super System, and an extension of the EX System, where you hold a button and do a move and it drains half your meter but an EX version comes out. Kind of like EX but for any move (except supers obviously).

And thats it, no CC's or anything. KISS Capcom....

[Mr. Basara!!]

I agree with the comments from the dOOds who want a more Guilty Gear-esque meter system. The Tension system in Guilty Gear is used for far more than just supers. As a matter of fact, in most characters' advanced gameplay, you never use them for supers (or... overdrives...).

I think it would be smart for SFIV to implement a system where you can use the meter for tactics beyond supers. I, for one, think that EX moves are pwnage and hope that they stay. An advanced guard that uses tension (though faultless defense probably wouldn't do much good in SF, since it doesn't have crazy rushes like GG minus Genei Jin Yun). Maybe even adding a system like N Groove from CvS2 to use your meter to temporarily power up your character (not necessarily their supers though).

Hell if I know. I think I've gotten so used to having to choose one super, that I wouldn't care whether they gave you access to multiple supers or just one.

I can't really say too much. Seems like a lot of people already threw out some really good suggestions. I hope capcom listens to little ol' us (or U.S. ;) in our suggestions. Atleast this community is a lot more productive than some other forums I've stalked. :P

[FreshOJ]

This will be interesting.

Personally, I think that doing anything that puts you at a decent risk that you are successfully able to execute should be rewarded. I like ST's meter, but I have to admit to liking the way supers are handled in SFA3, too. I don't know the exact numbers and ratios used in either of those games when it comes to the super meter, but I think any meter system that gives no meter for whiffing normal moves and a very very tiny amount of meter for whiffing special moves would be great. Touching your opponent with moves should be rewarded. Hitting your opponent with moves should be doubly rewarded.

I don't know about you, but when it comes to anything I do, when I'm doing well, I can get into a zone pretty quickly. That's what super meter should be about...rewarding offense. I don't think it should be easy for someone to sit back and whiff moves and build meter. That's not fighting. If you want that, play S-Groove on Capcom vs. SNK or one of the early King of Fighters games. Oh...and blocking moves should not give you meter, either. That's just plain wack. If you want that, play K-Groove or play Samurai Shodown or King of Fighters. While I love the aforementioned games, they rewarded defense too much.

I really hope Capcom comes with something new, but my sincere hope is that it rewards risk-taking offense, not passive defense.

[BigRick70]

Like polarity pointed out earlier, successful offense is already rewarded by damage and in some cases, more opportunity for offense.

So IMO you could reward offense with meter, but you do not give additional meter for successful offense... damage is a good enough reward for that.

[Rokiseph]

Ermmm, i personally don't want to create a wall of texc, so i'll link to what i've typed on Capcom BBS

http://www.capcom.com/BBS/showthread.php?p=390223#post390223

Look down for Roki.

It's a super meter that punishes you for using too much of it.

[otter]

Here's the problem with meter building; if you give players meter for taking offensive action, you're rewarding them for actions which have already netted them damage, and then you're allowing them more damage?.



yes? if someone is playing a better game, they should win....

[polarity]

yes? if someone is playing a better game, they should win....

damage is its own reward and contributes towards winning itself, you don't need to reward damage by giving meter to allow you to do more damage.

[archetype]

Yeah I agree with what polarity is talking bout.

The super meter shouldn't be such an overbearing feature in a game that can drastically alter the method of the game and the fighting thats taking place. Think about in ST when Boxer gets meter and are are restricted from using moves that you would normally be able to. Throwing fireballs are completely unwise in this situation. When Chun li gets meter in 3s. Depending on your character your move set is highly restricted as well. This is attributed to many factors such as the invincibility properties of the super and the speed at which it comes out.

It becomes a matter of "who can get meter first". Moreover, depending on the movesets of characters they are able to whiff quick normals and implement other ways of achieving to get meter. This is obviously a design flaw in the systems and characters. Moving away from this aspect to a meter system that drifts away from the highly powerful and invincible move, to another meter system would have to take into account the characters and the system.

I really like the Guity Gear method of super meter. Instead of being focused on a very strong attack it also gives the player offensive and defensive options. You got RC and FRC for characters that can add additional methods of offense(or defense depending on the character). Bursts, Supers, Dead Angle attack, and faultless defense(might be missing some not that familiar with ggac). Not saying that sf4 should take these methods but they should definitely look into it.

How about a meter system that still implements supers (without the large invinciblity windows) but also adds some attributes to your character or doesnt purely do damage to the health of your opponent but his guard and super meter!

*the following situation is purely hypothetical*

Lets say Ryu and Sagat are fighting each other. Sagat gets 1 level out of 5 available and Ryu gets 2 of 5 available during the match.

Ryu knows with those 2 meters he can either:

1. super: Shinku hadoken that takes 1 level; knocks down, and does some nice damage.

2. super: Denjin hadouken that takes 2 levels to use; if opponent blocks the super it decreases their guard bar by 50% and decreases super bar by 1 bar and pushes the opponent back some distance maybe 1 character length away; if it hits the opponent it decreases their super meter by 2 and their guard bar by 25 percent and pushes them back a 2 character lengths away. Can use once per round.

or..

he can sit on these 2 bars and..

3. wait until he gets 3 bars to do a temporary super that changes his movelist that gives him more juggle type normals moves; and an air throw; and he can air recover like in Alpha 3. however he loses his blue hadouken and dragon punch and his attacks are weaker.

4. get 4 bars and increase his guard bar by 50 percent; however his fireballs have more recovery; throws do 3 times more damage to him; his dash is slower; and if he gets guardbroken his guard meter to decreases to 25 of the maximum amount.

5. gets 5 bars and increases his health by some points, but he loses the ability to use his denjin super and his guard bar increase super. If


Sagat knows with his 1 meter he can...


1. temporarily change the properties of his attacks to affect the opponent. If sagat his ryu with a sweep with this super activated then his Hurricane kick loses some attack power since he is injuring his legs. Also if Sagat hits ryu with a lot of blows to his legs with standing short then his jump is more slower and sluggish. In addition since Ryu blocks high with his arms if sagat hits him enough times his hadouken comes out slower. Sagats moves come out slower with this super activated. Ryu is affected temporarily. If Sagat gets hit with this Super activated then Ryu's attack does double the damage.

or Sagat and sit on this meter and...

2. wait to get 2 bars and get 1 push block that pushes the opponent back 1.5 character lengths. Also the attack that was pushed back will do no guard, meter, or health damage. It stops auto combo's like chun's SA2 from 3s for example. Using it decreases his guard bar by 30 percent but it will slowly build up again. If you use this against ryu's a super fireball that hits 5 times, ryu will be pushed back back and the fireball will collapse on Sagat.

3. wait and get 3 bars and do his tiger knee super that does some nice damage; knocks down and looks cool as hell with swirling camera angles.

4. wait and get 4 bars and gain the temporary ability to launch after the last hit of his knee bash throw; and lets him combo into his throws; tiger shots are slower and tiger uppercut does less damage.

5. wait and get 5 bars and use his tiger upgrade super. he loses the ability to do all special moves temporarily. However, he gets pushed back less from blocked attacks; his kicks all do double the guard damage and his punches push back the opponent more and does .25 the block stun; his jump is sluggish. He can only do this once per match and he cannot do his first, and third supers any more.

Or none of them can use any meter during the round which would ensure they have 5 bars the next round.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sitting on meters can also be beneficial as well for Ryu or Sagat!

If Ryu 2 meters he can throw Red fireballs.
If Ryu gets 5 meters and holds that stock the entire around he gets a fake fireball.

So there comes some strategy and thinking. Should I use my level 4(guard bar increase super) and go back to 1 bar and lose my red fireballs and fake fireball? Or should I use my level 3 super(juggle movelist) which makes me lose my blue hadoken and dragon punch and makes my attacks weaker, but I will be able to retain my Red hadouken, I get an air throw and I get to air flip like alpha 3. That flip will come in handy if Sagat does his level 4 super which launches me in the air!

but...

if Sagat gets 4 bars or more and sits on it then he could sit on his meter and use the ability to cancel his tiger knee into a launcher that also decreases Ryu's super meter by half a bar on hit. If Ryu blocks it Sagat is at -1 and it takes 5% of Ryu's super meter, and its a just frame type of move like from Tekken. So if Sagat has 5 bars he is probably thinking, "should I do my level 4 super and but lose this just frame launcher off tiger knee. or should I do my level 1 super and wear down Ryu's attributes and keep this ability to wear down his super meter a bit and have the ability to launch him!

This is all hypothetical!!!


So yeah, meter would play an intergral part in the game but depending on how you use your meter depends on how your character plays and all that type of stuff.

What yall think?:rofl:

[DarkNecrid]

I would like to just see the SSF2T Super meter system, but with an improvement to the EX move system. Basically you can hold down 1 button (like a shoulder button or something, idk) and then input the command for a move, and you lose half your meter, but an EX version comes out. Basically, every move you have can become EX (cept supers!) which would be cool I guess.

[Xiii]

I would like to just see the SSF2T Super meter system, but with an improvement to the EX move system. Basically you can hold down 1 button (like a shoulder button or something, idk) and then input the command for a move, and you lose half your meter, but an EX version comes out. Basically, every move you have can become EX (cept supers!) which would be cool I guess.

aka 3S' EX system.

Games that deal with Super Meters will most likely always be like this because it makes the most sense. You might not like it, but think about how many actions you can award meter for?

- Attacking (whiffing/hitting/hitting over block)
- Blocking
- Moving (Dashing/Air-Dashing)

I think it's done right enough with only awarding offensive attacks (blocked or hit) and then leave everything else out of the equation. If you really want to be a hardass about Meter gain, you could restrict it further to only special moves that hit (blocked or not, but not whiffed). Though with all these restrictions, I still don't see a good reason for it. Meter systems done right are supposed to encourage actual fighting. Running away and turtling is a tactic, but you shouldn't be rewarded for just the act of it. When you run away and turtle, you'll still be rewarded once you take your shot, otherwise tough luck.

Though after saying all that, I did come up with a meter system for my own fighter that allowed Supers, EX type moves and Specials to all reduce specified amounts of meter from the opponent when they're hit. Again it's a gimmicky feature and like any other idea won't "fix" the general idea of having a Super Meter.

The only way for people to not complain about Super Meter other than complaining about it's absence is to remove it. In the end, I don't see a problem with the current Meter system in most of the popular fighting games in the last decade. Yes, the meter system stacks in favour of the one that is "winning", but it's giving the losing player an incentive to try harder. If you're the type to give up because you don't like favour stacking, you shouldn't be playing a game with "handicap" features.

[FMJaguar]

What yall think?:rofl:

That i'm never using the 'blood of FMJ' assist ever again, obviously it's created some sort of monster.

anyway I wouldn't go so far as to create a whole new moveset based on super meter, but i do like the idea of having more creative specials, like meter draining, health recovering, with other penalties attached.

My problem (as with a lot of threads on this forum) is that i like them more for some 2d remake than for SF4. I just hope that SF4 really achives the goal of bringing the feeling of Street Fighter to 3d, not so much 2d fighting, but well, what ink says here (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=4406512&highlight=screw#post4406512), and they save the crazy systems for CFJ:HD or something like that.

So far i haven't seen any indication that SF4 will be much more complex than classic SF, or that it will have meter at all. I guess we will wait and see.

[DarkNecrid]

aka 3S' EX system.

Well the difference in my idea, is anyyyy move....some characters didnt have some special moves as EX versions, plus with my system you could EX grabs and shit if you wanted to.

I dunno, i really liked the EX system, because it gave you some additional options, but wasn't horribly overpowered like a CC System either. I'd like to see it come back.

[Hol Horse]

A non-linear meter buliding could be a good balance of avoiding intense meter-building tactics and the "sitting on meter" turtling while still retaining the extra flexibilty that a meter system gives.

In example (that could be reworked in many ways while mantaining its "spirit"), I'm using an hypotetical 3-tiered meter, with 3 different supers tied to their level and EX moves that burn something like 1/5th or 1/6th of the total meter.
Have it like that the 1st part of the meter builds extremely fast, the second part builds at a slower rate, and the final part builds extremely slowly (so slow that it would be very uncommond to build up to level 3 from scratch in a single round)
This way a player would be able to access an EX move or a level-1 super (with low damage in itself but with some interesting property) very often and with no need to sit back and charge, but still not indefinitely. Accessing a level -2 super (a good super move) or storing 3-4 EX moves would be more difficult but still viable. A level - 3 super could be extremely good, with great comeback potential even, but hard to build, requiring patience and planning to hold back all of the other meter options you have.
How would this integrate with character design? Imagine a character who has some really good things, but has a glaring weakness: lack of good reversal/wakeup move - if he gets knocked down, he's in a big trouble (think ST dictator without meter being knocked down by Honda, Hawk or Zangief to have it clear). Now, you could give him a good reversal: is level-1 super. The super would do pity damage (a HP worth of damage at best), but has loads of invincibility and is safe if blocked, pushing the opponent back a lot. His level-2, instead, has no invincibility whatsoever and is not too fast either, but is very easy to combo, deals a good amount of damage and grants some good mixup after landing it (like setting up a meaty crossup). Now think a situation in which this character is losing and gets knocked down in the corner while his opponent has still an hefty amount of life. It's a very bad situation since his defensive game is extremely poor besides that level-1 super. Now, he has near level-2 charge (still not up to that). He could use that level-1 super as a jail-free card, but with little advantage - he's out of trouble but now he's back to less than level-1 and the opponent has still lots of life, and he won't be able to access level 2 super again in a short time so he has to work a lot to make his comeback. He could instead try to defend without the l.1 super, that would be much harder to do, but if the defense is successfull without using the l.1 super, now he has the l.2 ready as a good tool to have an easier comeback. In the end it's quite a hard call to decide about using the l.1 super or not, and this mantains the old sf principle that knocking down an opponent is an advantageous situation; the only win-win situation would be sitting on level-3 which could grant the usage of both the l.1 to get out and the l.2 to aid the comeback, or even the l.3 itself, but as I said building up to level 3 would be extremely hard (expecially for a character who's only viable reversal burns meter)

[Xiii]

Well the difference in my idea, is anyyyy move....some characters didnt have some special moves as EX versions, plus with my system you could EX grabs and shit if you wanted to.

I dunno, i really liked the EX system, because it gave you some additional options, but wasn't horribly overpowered like a CC System either. I'd like to see it come back.

Well EXing any move is a pain to really manage. You mean even Normals as well correct? Certain moves don't have EX versions in 3S because they are redundant. Do command throws need EX versions? No, because they are powerful and fast enough already to not warrant the need for an EX version. As far as I know everybody had EX versions of every special move minus command throws they had except Akuma (obviously).

[azis]

I like the Hybrid SFA2 meter.

You can use it as custom, you can use it as super, you can use it as alpha counter, and everything runs fine.

[bokchoy]

Players start with full meter at beginning of round 1, with no way of rebuilding it.
Meter decreases every time they block or use crouching Fierce.
Empty meter = no blocking, no crouching Fierce.

[DarkNecrid]

Well EXing any move is a pain to really manage. You mean even Normals as well correct? Certain moves don't have EX versions in 3S because they are redundant. Do command throws need EX versions? No, because they are powerful and fast enough already to not warrant the need for an EX version. As far as I know everybody had EX versions of every special move minus command throws they had except Akuma (obviously).

yepyep!

Command Throws dats true, but I think it would be cool to see an EX Throw :/

Also, it looks like they pretty much went with what I wanted!

Hot sauce.

[tataki]

For example, one character might be able to use a powerful, comboable move that does a lot of damage with their meter, but they could also have a lack of good invincible reversals except one that requires meter. You therefore have to make a choice; you can use the huge-damaging super, but if you get knocked down later on, you could really be in trouble. This system forces you to make real strategic choices which could have a huge effect on the match.

sounds like any guiltygear character w/o a dragon punch actually :P
in eddie vs testament matchup, eddie can use his tension to dish out great damage, but also to escape bad situations with his super. testament can use his tension to force mixups on eddie but he also needs it to escape eddie's strong unblockables with his own super.

and your not getting meter for "what you will be doing anyways". you play more agressive cuz the game rewards you for that with many things and one of them is meter. if you turtle you'll lose all your meter and also get a penalty and won't gain meter at all for a while. so it's a big factor that makes people go for the offense.