MvC2: Mid-tier counter characters

[Gief_100proof]

While the bones of MvC2 have been picked fairly clean at this point, I'd like to start a thread on mid-tier counter characters OR what mid-tiers perform well against the big 4 and work well in specific match-ups.

One of the most obvious examples of this is Felicia vs. Strider/Doom. While the kitty has pretty bad matchups with most of the top tier (especially Sent + Cable), she shuts down S/D traps fairly effectively(most of 'em anyways).

Anywho, throw out some more examples. What mid-tier characters have good match-ups with Sent/CC? Cable/AAA? Storm? Mags? etc. etc.

[MagRush1]

Megaman and Doom/sentinel traps work really well against mags. Megaman w/ assist can have 4 projectiles on the screen at the same time! :eek: Rush that shit down, magnus!

[BshidoHEAT]

Omega Red can take on 3 of the big 4.
Magneto/Storm/Cable..

Sentinel is just a big fucking bad ass...

[TS]

What can Omega Red do against Cable? And how does he not just get AAAed by Storm (Psy or Commando)? Curious.


Bison does okay vs Cable, though Cable/Doom is harder. Anakaris supposedly does well vs Storm (launcher beats her jump attacks, she can't run away, and I suppose some other stuff). Colossus does okay vs Magneto, and Guile/Charlie AAA is good vs Spiral and Sentinel. Iceman beats a lot of characters if he has a sizeable lead and it's down to 1 on 1, because of the block damage thing. Jin AAA is good vs Magneto, and Sak's AAA (Dash, whatever) is good vs most traps. Venom is supposed do do okay vs Magneto. Dhalsim does well vs Storm, Cable, and Magneto, as does Megaman. Cyclops (he's top tier, but I should mention him anyway) does well vs Storm. For the record I consider MM, Dhalsim, and Iceman second tier.

[Saige]

Even though this doesn't mean Bison is good against Storm, I just found it interesting;

If Storm is running away, do a head stomp. As long as Storm is on the screen, no matter how high she is, Bison will jump all the way up there. True, he's vunerable afterwards and such but as far as suprise tactics go, it's pretty shocking to see Bison come flying up right at your head as you're running away. It looses its shock value after a few times but still, I found it suprising when it was done to me.

[HuStLeMaN17]

Spiderman can be a counter to Cable, if played corectly!

[Bonesaw]

you have the option of doing a super after the head stomp...sometimes you can cancel into a super and then cancel into another super to counter any retaliation that your opponent might try..:)

[Ten]

My opinion:

Ruby Heart can work relatively well against half of the top tier: namely Magneto and Cable.

As for the other half, Storm can run away from her, and Sentinel can flat out overpower her.

Against the so-called second tier, she might not even have a bad matchup.

[Naslectronical]

Ummm....Cable destroys Ruby Heart.

And while she may have some tricks against Magneto, she's at a fair disadvantage in that fight as well.

[Ten]

Nas:

Explain. From my experience, Cable versus Ruby Heart has been a position war moreso than anything else.

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by TS
What can Omega Red do against Cable? And how does he not just get AAAed by Storm (Psy or Commando)? Curious.


By all means OR doesn't counter Cable... nor does he counter Storm. But he does Ok against them.

*check guide or read thread about OR if you want answers.

wooo wooo!

X-men for Gc is too good!

I think wolverine is good in that game!

Sim is great in mvc2 as long as mag/storm don't have sent/capcom backing them up:p :o

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by mixup
wooo wooo!

X-men for Gc is too good!

I think wolverine is good in that game!

Sim is great in mvc2 as long as mag/storm don't have sent/capcom backing them up:p :o

Capcom doesn't hinder him as much as people think. First off, you can always choose not to attack. Second, if you do a C.Jab, C.Strong C.Fierce string, it will actually hit Commando out of his AAA at that range. The only AAA that is really a problem in that situation is Doom. But then again, Storm isn't going to ground rush you much, so Doom isn't as big an issue. Sentinel is probably the biggest roadblock for Dhalsim. Pryde always said that Sim beats Cable, but I've never seen it personally. It could be true, but I'm not sure.

[shiniduo]

Jin can fight toe-to-toe with Mags...especially when super armor is activated

[EEK]

Mixup and Bshido's avs rock! :D Where do you get the baby characters from, or do you make them yourselves?

Anyway I play Ruby quite a bit, and I will say she can go up against Cable. She's at a huge disadvantage, because Cable can do way much more damage to her, from further away, if she slips up, than she can do to Cable if he slips up.

However, if she gets near him on the ground and starts with her C. Roundhouse kick xx Sublimation and calling ghosts and Doom and what not, Cable finds it hard to get out of that shit because he's lacking maneuvrability and Sublimation plus Doom rocks keeps his assists out.

That said, Ruby/ Doom is hardly the tightest trap and one slip up = 3 x AHVB = dead Ruby/ Doom. :bluu:

Ruby's decent vs. Cable but hardly a counter character.

[Graveler]

Ironman works good against cable players. He can super jump, then airdash up, then smart bomb. Also IM has more priority than cable. You just got to play smart.

Cammy is pretty good against storm. If storm ever throws out a horizontal whirlwind or a vertical typhoon you can KBA on reaction. Also Cammy has a good priority launcher to help stop triangle jumps.

no, jin can't come close to being able to fight magneto, end of story.

If he has super armor, he's almost dead.

Your competition SUCKS if you're taking out magneto's with jin.

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by TS
Venom is supposed do do okay vs Magneto.

Venom does well vs. Mags until Mags realizes that he can hypergrav virtually all of Venom's moves. Then you can only use him as an assist against Mags, but he is a really good assist vs. Mags. Venom Fang assist stops all the triangle jumping stuff. It stops his ground dashes. Really great for characters that can either compete or almost compete with Mags, like Blackheart.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by FluffyXXL
Venom does well vs. Mags until Mags realizes that he can hypergrav virtually all of Venom's moves.Not S.Fierce.

And Venom's jump roundhouse beats Magneto's jump X.

[Dasrik]

Wolverines have some unique abilities which make him worth consideration. He can punish assists safely with damaging resets while forcing the point to block everything (AFAIK, only the Top 3 are capable of doing this, and this is why I feel Wolverine beats Cable), he has great positioning ability with the Drill Claw (again, Wolvy can drill claw assists and be in a great position to attack the point), his ground game is unmatched and Bonerine's assist is very very good.

You have to know the character very well, though, that takes a lot of experience.

[ytwojay]

Does Iron Man counter anyone at all?

Originally posted by shiniduo
Jin can fight toe-to-toe with Mags...especially when super armor is activated

:cool:Word.....my fave character in the game.

I know that Jin's AAA can keep Mags at bay, but I don't know about 1-on-1. I mean, I love Jin and all, but I always have a hard time against Mags players. Jin seriously needs better comboability. You have to play Jin smart. He's not a masher's character even though he's tagged as an "Easy Mode character". The way that I play Jin vs Mags is defensively. I wait until there's an opening or until my opponent screws up, but my win/loss ratio against good Mags players is horrible. Super armor or no super armor, I crack when I play Mags/Storm/Psy types. I also used to be a frequent Venom user and my matchups vs Mags were a lot better. Hell, my Amingo gave Mags players problems too but they evolved.

Satomi

[shiniduo]

Originally posted by Satomiblood


:cool:Word.....my fave character in the game.

I know that Jin's AAA can keep Mags at bay, but I don't know about 1-on-1. I mean, I love Jin and all, but I always have a hard time against Mags players. Jin seriously needs better comboability. You have to play Jin smart. He's not a masher's character even though he's tagged as an "Easy Mode character". The way that I play Jin vs Mags is defensively. I wait until there's an opening or until my opponent screws up, but my win/loss ratio against good Mags players is horrible. Super armor or no super armor, I crack when I play Mags/Storm/Psy types. I also used to be a frequent Venom user and my matchups vs Mags were a lot better. Hell, my Amingo gave Mags players problems too but they evolved.

Satomi


Mags will have a bit of a problem with Jin... if Jin has meter no cross-ups because of the cyclone super, tornado kick(u. hk) is a little bit abusable since it has little lag...

Originally posted by HyperViperSniper
Sorry I dont see Omega Red being able to do anything to Cable. I have seen some good Omega Reds before and against Cable the players will tell you no go. All he can do is Air Dash..and that really doesnt set him up for anything. Cable can fuck him up after or during anything he is doing.




HVS

I have to disagree. I think it's very possible for Omega Red to have a good match-up versus Cable, but under the appropriate cicumstances such as Cable being the last guy on the team without an assist. I think that OR doesn't all that well in 2-on-1 situation, but 1-on-1 he can deal. Just how badly have you seen a Cable mess up an Omega Red???

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by HyperViperSniper
Sorry I dont see Omega Red being able to do anything to Cable. I have seen some good Omega Reds before and against Cable the players will tell you no go. All he can do is Air Dash..and that really doesnt set him up for anything. Cable can fuck him up after or during anything he is doing.




HVS

I always play OR with Doom or Sentinel's assist. That helps against Cable... shit fills the screen and Cable can't AHVB.

BTW... anyone READ MY SIGNATURE! Has anyone actually read the OR thread? Maybe everyone should read the strats there and try them out before saying anything.

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by HyperViperSniper
How bad have I seen a Cable fuck up Omega Red..what kind of fucking question is that? The same way Cable fucks up everyone..he gets shot..


and my standing still is as is..Cable beats Omega Red pretty clean..


it would take a shitty Cable to lose to Omega Red consistantly..


HVS

Well, I almost perfected a Cable once.. you wanna know how?

By being smart.

By not using moves at a distance.

By letting him go into patters.. and attacking him when he's over confident.

By filling shit on the screen.

By trapping him in the corner with Doom's assist.

Super Jump canceling with burrowing coils.

I HVS.. if a Cable kills your OR standing still.. your OR isn't good..

But I never said it was an easy match. Why doesn't ANYONE read the Omega Red thread? :bluu:

[Unreallystic]

I have to agree with HVS. I used to think OR could stop Cable/counter - but experience has taught me other than that. OR doesn't have anything that really even slows cable with an assist down. Cable with CapCom, BH, Cammy, or *sometimes* Pyslocke, just stops OR cold. You can't poke cable, a simple well timed push block and you die. Forget to call back coils, or cancel the dive kick thingy - death again. Try to ruch Cable down? AAA stops cold - if it doesn't the combonation of the AAA and bullets keeps you from being *on top* of him...pretty much IMO leaving OR with no real offensive options.

Honestly I think Iceman is an excellent counter character - unless it is Cable or Sentinel, but even against Sentinel, with the proper gameplan and AAA he has a chance - he can do more damage than most other characters.

I think Sim is the perfect anti-neto. Whenever I am gettin harassed by Magnus - I pull Sim out with Storm and Doom, or Storm and some AAA and he gets shut down. A combonation of jumping roundhouses, s. roundhouses, and chain's into fierce or roundhouse reall annoy Mags until he messes up. You won't do alot of damage to mags - but with the assist you slowly chip him and disolve the oponents team. Sim and Cyclops work well together also. Cable gets hurt by Sim also. I have gone toe-to-toe with a good storm using Sim, but I think on a tourney level - that prolly wouldn't turn out the same - Storm would prolly win. Sentinel just f#cks dhalsims high up. Sim don't stand a chance.

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by Unreallystic
I have to agree with HVS. I used to think OR could stop Cable/counter - but experience has taught me other than that. OR doesn't have anything that really even slows cable with an assist down. Cable with CapCom, BH, Cammy, or *sometimes* Pyslocke, just stops OR cold. You can't poke cable, a simple well timed push block and you die. Forget to call back coils, or cancel the dive kick thingy - death again. Try to ruch Cable down? AAA stops cold - if it doesn't the combonation of the AAA and bullets keeps you from being *on top* of him...pretty much IMO leaving OR with no real offensive options.


No one reads the Omega Red thread.

This is patheitic.. it sounds like you guys don't even try.

Here's a good tip.

Anything Cable does anything on the ground it can be coiled xx striked.. cancel down. And BOOM your right in front of him.

[Unreallystic]

Originally posted by BshidoHEAT


No one reads the Omega Red thread.

This is patheitic.. it sounds like you guys don't even try.

Here's a good tip.

Anything Cable does anything on the ground it can be coiled xx striked.. cancel down. And BOOM your right in front of him. Let's be real - how often is Cable on the ground? I used to think OR could do something against cable - maybe 1v1 he has a chance, but he can't get in close against a solid Cable let alone good. Between jumping fierces, rocks, drones, typhoons - OR just isn't sneaking in, throw in Cable always being backed by a solid AAA and you won't want to get too close.

[BshidoHEAT]

Ok.. you can omega strike cable after a mid air viper beam.

OR does have a problem with Cable/Sent and Doom assist from what I've experienced.

But Mag/Cable or Storm/Cable teams are much more OR friendly.

BTW- I don't even use AAA w/ OR I use Doom's assist.

[J.Lo]

hey how come when i goto grab sentinel with the lp coil, sometimes he can hit me. it's like i started my special first but then he hits me. is this a trap?

[Blind-Side]

Originally posted by J.Lo
hey how come when i goto grab sentinel with the lp coil, sometimes he can hit me. it's like i started my special first but then he hits me. is this a trap?


lol a trap??

but i dont know. sent does ahve super armor but i dont think its any use v a coil thro.

[BshidoHEAT]

Omega's coil should go through super armor.. J.Lo in your situation it might have been that he hit you before the coil came out.

[BrazilionBH]

Originally posted by J.Lo
hey how come when i goto grab sentinel with the lp coil, sometimes he can hit me. it's like i started my special first but then he hits me. is this a trap? Yeah thats bad if you do a move first you should win.

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by HyperViperSniper
I am telling you now..I wish that everyone would play against my Cable with Omega Red so I could get easier wins..



HVS

Damn it. I never said it was easy.

[Unreallystic]

From what I have seen - Marrow makes a nice Sentinel *assist* counter. Her bone projectile tears thru his super armor and stops him cold, keeping the damn drones off screen. Unfortunatly I don't think it is worth it to pick her just for that. I also find that a *well timed* Sonson can give a *chipping* storm some problems. Running around teh walls and doing the dive kick will go over typhoons and knock her out of the hailstorm...but if not timed right, you lose mad heealth with no roll potential.

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by Unreallystic
From what I have seen - Marrow makes a nice Sentinel *assist* counter. Her bone projectile tears thru his super armor and stops him cold, keeping the damn drones off screen. Unfortunatly I don't think it is worth it to pick her just for that. I also find that a *well timed* Sonson can give a *chipping* storm some problems. Running around teh walls and doing the dive kick will go over typhoons and knock her out of the hailstorm...but if not timed right, you lose mad heealth with no roll potential.

Didn't Viscant use Marrow in one match at B5?

HEAT,

Don't worry about what HVS says. He just has an opinion. Keep playing OR to the fullest. Some people are just too clingy to top tier characters. I get shit for using Jin or Amingo, but I just play and sometimes I can kick ass with those characters. Btw, I love Viscant. Not in a sexual way:confused:. I just like how he uses a mix of bottom, mid, and high tiers in his matches whether tourney or casual and he's for sure my MVC2 idol or the guy that I'd like to learn strats and tactics from.

[BshidoHEAT]

Originally posted by Satomiblood
HEAT,

Don't worry about what HVS says. He just has an opinion.

I have no problem w/ someone's opinion. It's cool.

[MIXXIAN 11]

Rouge is good against Cable and Magz.

[TS]

Viscant (whom it's okay to admit you admire in a sexual way...no shame in that. It's Viscant.) used Marrow at B5 as a Spiral counter character. He was playing Marrow/Storm/Doom, which is basically free Hail Storm any time Spiral calls an assist and/or calls swords.

Originally posted by TS
Viscant (whom it's okay to admit you admire in a sexual way...no shame in that. It's Viscant.) used Marrow at B5 as a Spiral counter character. He was playing Marrow/Storm/Doom, which is basically free Hail Storm any time Spiral calls an assist and/or calls swords.

Does Viscant have AIM? If so, what's his sn?

[rice picker]

its been said but megaman does great against mags with sent or doom or BH.just too much shit on the screen

[MIXXIAN 11]

SonSon ain't to bad either.

[AsianDemon]

Originally posted by BshidoHEAT


I have no problem w/ someone's opinion. It's cool. Well my opinion is that Omega Red suck!!!;) j/k

Well at least is good enough to be Mid-Tier or better.

Whats up with all dese ghetto av's?

:D

[Dasrik]

This is why MvC2 is good. As long as you can filter out what NOT to do, most characters have very real uses. If you invest the time and energy to know your opposition and learn some simple basics, you can do a lot of counter-charactering come tourney time.

Wolverine - Beats Cable and does very good on pure turtles.
Guile - Does well on non-aggro Sentinels. He also has secret Marvel c.fierce and j.rh and can rape people who don't like to pushblock.
Charlie/BB Hood - Strategically weak Guiles that do more damage.
Venom - Jump roundhouse and Venom Fang are really good. Can beat aggro people well.
Megaman - Fills the screen with crap. Is kind of like Spiral for people that suck with Spiral.
Dhalsim - Sim is really shitted on because he's really technical, but if you just focus on using his jump rh, you don't have to be that good to win with him. Good on aggro Mags.
Shotos - Damage and air hurricane.
Marrow - Keeps Spiral from getting swords as long as she has meter.
Silver Samurai - Great 2nd character because you can't really call assists on him as long as he has tons of meter.
Bonerine - Assist fucks people up.
Psylocke - Give her right assist and she can turtle like no one's business. Safe short psi-blade = sick.
Juggernaut - Kills people. (Yes, it's as simple as that.)

Originally posted by Dasrik
This is why MvC2 is good. As long as you can filter out what NOT to do, most characters have very real uses. If you invest the time and energy to know your opposition and learn some simple basics, you can do a lot of counter-charactering come tourney time.

Wolverine - Beats Cable and does very good on pure turtles.
Guile - Does well on non-aggro Sentinels. He also has secret Marvel c.fierce and j.rh and can rape people who don't like to pushblock.
Charlie/BB Hood - Strategically weak Guiles that do more damage.
Venom - Jump roundhouse and Venom Fang are really good. Can beat aggro people well.
Megaman - Fills the screen with crap. Is kind of like Spiral for people that suck with Spiral.
Dhalsim - Sim is really shitted on because he's really technical, but if you just focus on using his jump rh, you don't have to be that good to win with him. Good on aggro Mags.
Shotos - Damage and air hurricane.
Marrow - Keeps Spiral from getting swords as long as she has meter.
Silver Samurai - Great 2nd character because you can't really call assists on him as long as he has tons of meter.
Bonerine - Assist fucks people up.
Psylocke - Give her right assist and she can turtle like no one's business. Safe short psi-blade = sick.
Juggernaut - Kills people. (Yes, it's as simple as that.)

Dasrik, can you please explain how Marrow prevents Spiral from loading swords? I just want to know how. Thanks.

In my Venom thread, some mentioned that Venom can also give Sentinel trouble.

[shiniduo]

Dasrik's right as long as you know how to play your character they could go far

That means that there's still hope for my Jin<b>/Venom<a>/Doom<b> team. Actually, I've been getting somewhat surprising results from BBH<a>/Sent<y>/Capcom<b>. Btw, BBH isn't a typo, it's actually B.B. Hood:eek: for those of you not familiar with the abbreviation. I have this lockdown, trap, or whatever you'd like to call it where I keep firing Smiling Missiles with Sent Drones. It works rather nicely and don't forget that Cool Hunting does a tremendous amount of damage whether it hits or is blocked so a couple of those can end a math rather quickly. Also, there's a few moves that I never really noticed before like her crawl special and a third version of Smiling Missile that you charge like Guile's Flashkick, but with LP or HP instead of the kicks. She's not that bad of a character. She builds meter pretty fast, has damaging supers, can fill the bottom half of the screen with projectiles. My only gripe is her lack of range. She has a horrible launcher. You have to get in real close to combo anything. Hell, Megaman has more reach than her. Also, don't forget the stamina factor. She can die pretty fast:sweat:. It's still a team in the works right now, but so far so good. I want to focus my attention to Jin for some reason. I could never really put together a decent team with him. I mean, I did have an "ok" Jin<b>/Venom<a>/Ken<y> team, but that was nothing special. People caught on to it pretty fast and made it obsolete. Bleh...

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by Satomiblood
Dasrik, can you please explain how Marrow prevents Spiral from loading swords? I just want to know how. Thanks.Homing swords super, plus use s.fierce xx bonerang as a basic rushdown staple to keep meter going.

[shiniduo]

Originally posted by Satomiblood
That means that there's still hope for my Jin<b>/Venom<a>/Doom<b> team. Actually, I've been getting somewhat surprising results from BBH<a>/Sent<y>/Capcom<b>. Btw, BBH isn't a typo, it's actually B.B. Hood:eek: for those of you not familiar with the abbreviation. I have this lockdown, trap, or whatever you'd like to call it where I keep firing Smiling Missiles with Sent Drones. It works rather nicely and don't forget that Cool Hunting does a tremendous amount of damage whether it hits or is blocked so a couple of those can end a math rather quickly. Also, there's a few moves that I never really noticed before like her crawl special and a third version of Smiling Missile that you charge like Guile's Flashkick, but with LP or HP instead of the kicks. She's not that bad of a character. She builds meter pretty fast, has damaging supers, can fill the bottom half of the screen with projectiles. My only gripe is her lack of range. She has a horrible launcher. You have to get in real close to combo anything. Hell, Megaman has more reach than her. Also, don't forget the stamina factor. She can die pretty fast:sweat:. It's still a team in the works right now, but so far so good. I want to focus my attention to Jin for some reason. I could never really put together a decent team with him. I mean, I did have an "ok" Jin<b>/Venom<a>/Ken<y> team, but that was nothing special. People caught on to it pretty fast and made it obsolete. Bleh...

I've already tried the BBH,Sent,CapComm team once...they caught on to it real fast hope you have better chances in using this team...:D

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by HyperViperSniper
If I remember correctly didnt Viscant still lose that match?It was working fine until Marrow got grabbed for 50% damage and Spiral got swords. And she had worked in previous matches, so the fact that Viscant went ahead and used her in the nationals already shows that his balls are made of steel.

Originally posted by shiniduo


I've already tried the BBH,Sent,CapComm team once...they caught on to it real fast hope you have better chances in using this team...:D

Well, I did manage to beat one of the better players from my area with that team, but I haven't gone on a lengthy win streak like I did with Cable<b>/Sent<y>/Cyke<b> which was 10 wins or so. Bah, we'll see what happens.....

[MIXXIAN 11]

Buy Shinobi for PS2 on Nov. 13th!!! - Satomiblood

You betcha!!! * Trips on cape *

:D