One thread for the new SF4 Info and Screenshot from 1UP

[Ashenwraith]

uhm, seeing as it's a 2D fighter...

You're missing the point.

The fact that they are making it 3D according to many people is to attract new fans from a 3D audience.

When they pick up the game they are going to be comparing it to every 3D fighter out there or to the 2D SF series that they remember (IF they had a chance to experience it).

So basically people will do one thing or the other or both.

Most people who will buy the game weren't waiting for Capcom to say "It's really a 2D game!" to make up their minds.

[Leebee Link]

battle fantasia

QFT

I've played it and it's a 2d fighter with 3D models

it feels the same (and it's a really awesome game).

[Ashenwraith]

QFT

I've played it and it's a 2d fighter with 3D models

it feels the same (and it's a really awesome game).

So what do you think it is about Battle Fantasia that makes it work where so many have failed?

[ilazul]

QFT

I've played it and it's a 2d fighter with 3D models

it feels the same (and it's a really awesome game).

I wish I could play it.

Anywho, it's not like smash bros. is a 3d fighter, and I don't think any 2D is even used in that game. Is BF ever coming stateside?

[Tigerboi]

You're missing the point.

The fact that they are making it 3D according to many people is to attract new fans from a 3D audience.

When they pick up the game they are going to be comparing it to every 3D fighter out there or to the 2D SF series that they remember (IF they had a chance to experience it).

So basically people will do one thing or the other or both.

Most people who will buy the game weren't waiting for Capcom to say "It's really a 2D game!" to make up their minds.


Those people are idiots. So it's cool.

[Badrats Studio]

i guess the producer or director of the game really does matter, i think i remember reading on imdb he produced some shitty street fighter games.

Based-on the interview of Capcom USA rep that I saw in gametrailers , he said that the producer was Ono-san ; the one who work in Shadow Of Rome and Onimusha : Dawn Of Dreams . I wonder if he's a real Street Fighter player.

Better bring back Akira Nishitani and Noritaka Funamizu for the solid 2-D gameplay flavour of Street Fighter.

And about the graphics , IMo , the 2-D sprites were too expensive and too exhausting to make because it is hand-drawn. Correct me if I am wrong. Thank's. :sweat:

[Duckdee]

2D fighting fans are the few real gamers left on the planet
That is one of the most bizarre things I've read on a forum, but then, I play Pokémon, so I'm obviously thick.

[Ashenwraith]

Based-on the interview of Capcom USA rep that I saw in gametrailers , he said that the producer was Ono-san ; the one who work in Shadow Of Rome and Onimusha : Dawn Of Dreams . I wonder if he's a real Street Fighter player.

Better bring back Akira Nishitani and Noritaka Funamizu for the solid 2-D gameplay flavour of Street Fighter.

And about the graphics , IMo , the 2-D sprites were too expensive and too exhausting to make because it is hand-drawn. Correct me if I am wrong. Thank's. :sweat:

You could render out sprites of 3D models at a lot higher quality than it would in real-time and this includes using both painted techniques or cell shaded stuff.

Then you could have 2D artist paint over if need be to make them look even better.

The cost is basically the same, the 'it's too expensive' line is a myth to avoid creating a 2D game.

[johnnyutah001]

You could render out sprites of 3D models at a lot higher quality than it would in real-time and this includes using both painted techniques or cell shaded stuff.

Then you could have 2D artist paint over if need be to make them look even better.

The cost is basically the same, the 'it's too expensive' line is a myth to avoid creating a 2D game.

that idea is just plain bad. if the models are stiff ala tekken you'd never achieve the expressive nature of the sprites in third strike, it would look like Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game 2. you need talented 2d artists to do that shit from scratch. look at Hugo for example and how bouncy he is and how he distorts when hit - id be damn surprised if they can match that expressiveness in 4.

[ViciousSLASH]

Based-on the interview of Capcom USA rep that I saw in gametrailers , he said that the producer was Ono-san ; the one who work in Shadow Of Rome and Onimusha : Dawn Of Dreams . I wonder if he's a real Street Fighter player.


Not to add to everyones distress but he produced Capcom Fighting Jam...

:sweat: All of Capcom's top fighting game talent is working with Arc now right?

[Burnsro]

:sweat: All of Capcom's top fighting game talent is working with Arc now right?
They're at Craft&Meister

[Stranger]

^picture 3s.

then picture it with 3D models instead of sprites and moving the same.

Discussion over?

seeing as it's moving on the same 2D [lain, it'll move more like SF an VF. Easily.I seriously doubt that Capcom is gonna animate SF4 so well that it's gonna feel like 2D.

[Tigerboi]

If it PLAYS on 2-D, how could it possibly not FEEL like 2D?

Not seeing the logic there.




The cost is basically the same, the 'it's too expensive' line is a myth to avoid creating a 2D game.

lol. Why do you think so many 2-D game creators reuse sprites all the time?

[The Illuminati]

They're at Craft&Meister

Word, and I'm expecting the worst. Capcom doesn't have the guys that made Street Fighter Big anymore. Capcom of USA should have commissioned Craft&Meister to make the game.

[Captain Ryu]

I wan to see this shit in motion.


edit

So nobody with a lot of experience with sf games is working on this besides the dude responsible for CFJ?

[Nokato]

I wan to see this shit in motion.


edit

So nobody with a lot of experience with sf games is working on this besides the dude responsible for CFJ?


Yoshihiro Ono, had literally no experience with SF prior to being put on CFJ. No one there has experience with SF. Noritaka Funamizu and Yoshiki Okamoto were and still ARE SF....and they are not employed by Capcom currently....

[Stranger]

If it PLAYS on 2-D, how could it possibly not FEEL like 2D?

Not seeing the logic there.Does EX feel like a 2D game to you ?

[Leebee Link]

So what do you think it is about Battle Fantasia that makes it work where so many have failed?

It's 3D characters that were designed on a 2D plane.

But what are the "so many that failed" you're referring to? The only thing that i can think of is the SFEX series. I think they still feel 2D. Dunno what else to say.


They're at Craft&Meister

And Dimps.


Does EX feel like a 2D game to you ?

I've never understood why people think it doesn't feel like a 2D game. It's only different because it was developed by Arika, not capcom; there's nothing decidedly "3D fighter" about it.

[Nokato]

And Dimps.




I've never understood why people think it doesn't feel like a 2D game. It's only different because it was developed by Arika, not capcom; there's nothing decidedly "3D fighter" about it.


It's not the fact that 3-D is implemented in the game, because that game really doesn't have any 3-D element outside of its aesthetics. The issue is control. The characters felt very clunky, and slow and the didn't feel tight like any of the other 2-D SF titles. It's difficult (dare I say it) impossible to re-create that feeling within a game using 3-D models. Rival Schools had this same issue, it just doesn't work the same. They could be trying to prove this theory wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

[Tigerboi]

Well, I refuse to beleive that CFJ had much a budget(1 new sprite!), or heart behind it. This game seems to. so I'll remain optimistic. Hell, Zelda got different when Miyamoto left, but they continued to rock.

[Stranger]

I've never understood why people think it doesn't feel like a 2D game. It's only different because it was developed by Arika, not capcom; there's nothing decidedly "3D fighter" about it.For starters, It plays like 2D, but it doesn't look like one.

[Nokato]

Well, I refuse to beleive that CFJ had much a budget(1 new sprite!), or heart behind it. This game seems to. so I'll remain optimistic. Hell, Zelda got different when Miyamoto left, but they continued to rock.


Your optimism is unheard of lol. I guess you haven't really been decieved in life too much. Anyways, good luck with holding out. Like I said, I'll still play the game more than likely despite my gripes. I'm only hoping that there's something that will change my mind about it when it comes out or when I get the new EGM.

[Leebee Link]

It's not the fact that 3-D is implemented in the game, because that game really doesn't have any 3-D element outside of its aesthetics. The issue is control. The characters felt very clunky, and slow and the didn't feel tight like any of the other 2-D SF titles. It's difficult (dare I say it) impossible to re-create that feeling within a game using 3-D models. Rival Schools had this same issue, it just doesn't work the same. They could be trying to prove this theory wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

Battle Fantasia says otherwise.


For starters, It plays like 2D, but it doesn't look like one.

Uh... feel =/= look.

I know that it isn't 2D.

[Stranger]

Uh... feel =/= look.Apparently the visuals of a game don't matter in any shape or form.

[Tigerboi]

Does EX feel like a 2D game to you ?

Well, let's see....


Controling space is the big thing, jumping and AA attacks come into big play, crossups, footsies, projectiles matter quite a bit, corner games etc...


The question is, how does it not?

[Nokato]

Do people even play Battle Fantasia, still? That game kinda came and went as far as I know...

I just watched a match vid. I will say that it does like "tighter" than most 3-D games. The thing about THIS game is that it's strictly on a 2-D plan, with no deviations...I like that. From the pics, we've seen of SF4 the camera deviates (unless those were Attract Mode pics).

IF SF4 goes the same route of BF--it could very well be good. That sort of gives me a small semblance of hope. We'll only know when we see in-game screenshots, so hopefully that's the direction they're going. I'd think that they would consider the cementing of 2-D in terms of the majority of conventions in SF.

Battle Fantasia looks to be addressing the "clunkiness" of typical 3-D fighters marginally well.

[Sagatryu]

acorrding to Sano these people did some work on the SF3 series

1 Kazuhito Nakai ( Programer )

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Kazuhito+Nakai

2 Nobuya Yoshizumi ( programer )

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Nobuya+Yoshizumi+%28LT1%29


3 Yuko Kawamura ( programer )

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Yuko+Kawamura+%28Tate%29

4 Hiroshi Nakagawa ( programer)

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Hiroshi+Nakagawa+%28Raoh%29


5 masahito oh!ya ( Programer)

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Masahito+Oh%21Ya%21


6 akihiro yokoyama( programer)

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Akihiro+%3F+Yokoyama

edit: this is all 6 programers that did work on SF3 Third Strike.




7 Hidetoshi Ishizawa ( Director of SF3 third strike)

http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,148318/


8 Haruo Murata

http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,148413/


9 Tomonori Ohnuma

http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,148656/

10 Yasunori Ichinose


http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,151748/


11 Tomoshi Sadamoto ( Producer of SF3 double impact and New Genreation)

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Tomoshi+Sadamoto

12 yoshinori ono ( Sound Managment Director)

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Yoshinori+Ono

[No defence]

Ryu looks ugly... I just hope the music is epic.:confused:

[Tigerboi]

All i'm saying is this: If it plays on a 2-D plain, it's technically not a 3D game. Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others.

[MiLky]

Ryu looks ugly... I just hope the music is epic.:confused:


Me too! As long as the music is good and it has CGI rendered proper endings, everything will be peachy....











Fuck the gameplay, why argue about that now, it's not important or known.





|> for the retards in this thread |>

[Nokato]

All i'm saying is this: If it plays on a 2-D plain, it's technically not a 3D game. Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others.

I wasn't going to post anymore but, THAT has GOT to be the most retarded generalization I've ever heard in this thread.

Oh, I have to retract my statement about Ono. He's done hella sound design for alot of the SF games, but thats all. I remember seeing his name it just about every game for Sound Design only.

[Tigerboi]

I wasn't going to post anymore but, THAT has GOT to be the most retarded generalization I've ever heard in this thread.



So considering it 2D because it plays in 2D is retarded?

Ok.

[Nokato]

So considering it 2D because it plays in 2D is retarded?

Ok.

Just because a fighting game is based on a 2-D plane, does not make them play exactly the same to its counterpart.

"All i'm saying is this: If it plays on a 2-D plain, it's technically not a 3D game. Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others."

Alright, if SF4 is made to play on a 2-D plane that makes the game 2-D. That I'm not arguing with. But what you're also saying is that if its 2-D that means it will play like "all the others".

"...Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others"

That's like saying because SNK games are on a 2-D plane they play like SF, when they don't at all. That's what I have a problem with. That's why what you said is inherently retarded.

Having 3-D models on a 2-D plane does not automatically equal SF gameplay/control. It just doesn't. Rival Schools, the EX series and countless other fighting games that are based on a 2-D plane with 3-D models don't equate to having SF sensibilities or proprerties. It is not that simple. Do you really understand SF, to say that a 2-D plane automatically equals SF?

[va-va]

acorrding to Sano these people did some work on the SF3 series

1 Kazuhito Nakai ( Programer )

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Kazuhito+Nakai

2 Nobuya Yoshizumi ( programer )

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Nobuya+Yoshizumi+%28LT1%29


3 Yuko Kawamura ( programer )

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Yuko+Kawamura+%28Tate%29

4 Hiroshi Nakagawa ( programer)

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Hiroshi+Nakagawa+%28Raoh%29


5 masahito oh!ya ( Programer)

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Masahito+Oh%21Ya%21


6 akihiro yokoyama( programer)

http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=person&name=Akihiro+%3F+Yokoyama

edit: this is all 6 programers that did work on SF3 Third Strike.




That's true!
And they are still working at Capcom . Check this:
http://i18.tinypic.com/873aade.jpg

[caliagent#3]

Just because a fighting game is based on a 2-D plane, does not make them play exactly the same to its counterpart.

"All i'm saying is this: If it plays on a 2-D plain, it's technically not a 3D game. Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others."

Alright, if SF4 is made to play on a 2-D plane that makes the game 2-D. That I'm not arguing with. But what you're also saying is that if its 2-D that means it will play like "all the others".

"...Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others"

That's like saying because SNK games are on a 2-D plane they play like SF, when they don't at all. That's what I have a problem with. That's why what you said is inherently retarded.

Having 3-D models on a 2-D plane does not automatically equal SF gameplay/control. It just doesn't. Rival Schools, the EX series and countless other fighting games that are based on a 2-D plane with 3-D models don't equate to having SF sensibilities or proprerties. It is not that simple. Do you really understand SF, to say that a 2-D plane automatically equals SF?

I don't think that's what he was trying to say. Rival schools isn't SF, EX is an SF game, so it resembles SF gameplay. SFIV is a 2D game with 3D models, so people are speculating it's gonna play like EX. The misinformed who've never played EX but rather judge from how it looks, say that EX doesn't play like SF when in fact it does. The only sound argument people can really give for the game is that they might not like the customs or maybe it's just not their cup of tea from the looks, characters etc, but you can't say it doesn't play like an SF game.

[Tigerboi]

Just because a fighting game is based on a 2-D plane, does not make them play exactly the same to its counterpart.

"All i'm saying is this: If it plays on a 2-D plain, it's technically not a 3D game. Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others."

Alright, if SF4 is made to play on a 2-D plane that makes the game 2-D. That I'm not arguing with. But what you're also saying is that if its 2-D that means it will play like "all the others".

"...Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others"

That's like saying because SNK games are on a 2-D plane they play like SF, when they don't at all. That's what I have a problem with. That's why what you said is inherently retarded.

.....

seems you tried a little [too] hard for that one. but regardless...


Know that "most likely" and "will" lead to two totatlly different statements. I never said it WILL play exactly, but seeing as this is a sequel to SF and not a KOF, and it is 2-D, I'd say it has a high likelyhood of playing and feeling like a 2D street fighter....and that only makes sense seeing as IT IS A 2D STREET FIGHTER.

[Soul Elevation]

Just because a fighting game is based on a 2-D plane, does not make them play exactly the same to its counterpart.

"All i'm saying is this: If it plays on a 2-D plain, it's technically not a 3D game. Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others."

Alright, if SF4 is made to play on a 2-D plane that makes the game 2-D. That I'm not arguing with. But what you're also saying is that if its 2-D that means it will play like "all the others".

"...Meaning it's 2D Sf and that it will most likely feel like all the others"

That's like saying because SNK games are on a 2-D plane they play like SF, when they don't at all. That's what I have a problem with. That's why what you said is inherently retarded.

Having 3-D models on a 2-D plane does not automatically equal SF gameplay/control. It just doesn't. Rival Schools, the EX series and countless other fighting games that are based on a 2-D plane with 3-D models don't equate to having SF sensibilities or proprerties. It is not that simple. Do you really understand SF, to say that a 2-D plane automatically equals SF?

I don't think the person was talking about fighting game mechanics that could be different (such as no parrying). It's just that it'll FEEL RELATIVELY similar to other SF games, as opposed to a Tekken or Soul Calibur. Of course, the game mechanics will ultimately determine whether it will be technically similar.

[Nokato]

.....

seems you tried a little [too] hard for that one. but regardless...


Know that "most likely" and "will" lead to two totatlly different statements. I never said it WILL play exactly, but seeing as this is a sequel to SF and not a KOF, and it is 2-D, It'd say it has a high likelyhood of playing and feeling like a 2D street fighter....and that only makes sense seeing as IT IS A 2D STREET FIGHTER.

It may have similar conventions, but that doesn't mean that it will play like SF exactly. You covered that in your reply--but at the same time saying "most likely", or " will" could mean that while it has those conventions, the game could be total shit as to how they play out. I'm not saying it can't happen but I think it's fairly unlikely that a 3-D game can feel like SF, and I'm not just talking about on the surface--I'm talking about control also. 3-D games are known for having a "clunky" feeling with their character models. EX does have SF conventions, but to me but the controls were clunky and to me didn't feel like SF.

I just don't have that much faith in Capcom to be able to do that since the originators of SF aren't there. I don't see Ono caring that much, as long as the 14 year olds like the superficial aspect of Ryu being in 3-D, I don't think he cares about much outside of that.

[Tigerboi]

but you haven't even seen his work with the game yet, so it's immposible to make that statment with complete certainty. That and the fact that his bringing back dahlsim implies that he's actually trying to cater to the more oldschool crowd just as much.

And EX was basically two console generations ago. Hardware AND capcom have come a long way in progression since then. (Well, EX wasn't made by capcom, but uh...)


MMX8, DMC, NSMB and BF all proof that a game that uses 3D visuals can be just as smooth and responsive as a 2D game. Hell in the case of MMX8 and NSMB, they were actually FASTER and more responsive than thier full 2-D counter parts.

EDIT: the game is said to run at 60 FPS, which, by defualt, automatically makes it alot faster than EX and most fighting games out right now for that matter.

I understand why you're not being optimistic about this, but just try and broden your view on it a little.

the game could suck ass for something that has nothing to do with it not being sprtie based at the end of the day. I'm just waiting to see it move.

[Nokato]

I've been down this road, MANY times. I'm not saying it won't be a good game, I'm just not holding my breath after seeing those recent images. Things can change between now and the release date, so we'll see. For right now, I'm indifferent.

[Tigerboi]

I've been down this road, MANY times. I'm not saying it won't be a good game, I'm just not holding my breath after seeing those recent images. Things can change between now and the release date, so we'll see. For right now, I'm indifferent.

As we all should be. I just hope you understand my point more now.

[SweetJohnnyV]

Word, and I'm expecting the worst. Capcom doesn't have the guys that made Street Fighter Big anymore. Capcom of USA should have commissioned Craft&Meister to make the game.

I've never understood this thinking. Do you really think that only the original SF team can ever make a decent SF game? Do you realize that most game teams change over time, even in the same company? The people that made Super Mario Bros. are probably not the same people that made Super Mario World and those people probably didn't make Super Mario Galaxy.

It's Street Fighter. Tons of people know how the games work and what makes them fun. I don't see why it's so tough to believe that another team can make a decent game. Sure, you can point to teams that have failed. But there have also been duds in the main SF line-up. I'm just sayin'...

[ilazul]

But there have also been duds in the main SF line-up. I'm just sayin'...

Heathen.

[quiche]

The people that made Super Mario Bros. are probably not the same people that made Super Mario World and those people probably didn't make Super Mario Galaxy.Actually, Shigeru Miyamoto and Koji Kondo have worked on all three of those games.

...seriously.

[Luigi-Bo 87]

...seriously.

:rofl: That always gets me.

[Eduardo24]

Actually, Shigeru Miyamoto and Koji Kondo have worked on all three of those games.

...seriously.

It`s pretty common for people to say that Miyamoto made every Mario, but the truth is he only directed the first one and Mario 64. I have always thought that Nintendo always uses the guy as a PR dog and nothing else. Proof of that is that he is credited for creating Pikmin. Guess what, he didn´t directed it, he didn´t develop it (its Shigefumi Hino`s creation). The teams in charge of Marios are radically different as well.

And Koji kondo was not the main composer behind Galaxy.

[Lebowsk1]

re: what is 2D vs 3D, I think it comes down to sprites vs polygons.

Someone earlier made the point that if you consider moving in/out of the screen to make a game 3D, them you'd have to classify Fatal Fury and Streets of Rage as 3D games. This seems counter-intuitive.

I think Capcom should scrap what they've done so far and put the 3S guys in charge of SFIV. I cannot BELIEVE that they are still working at Capcom, and yet have not been given this project.

[angelslayer13]

ok so I just got my egm (featuring ryu on the cover) and it includes alot of new info and screens, I dont have a scaner so I wont be able to post the screenshots but I can put some cliff notes for those that haventgotten the issue yet.

whats out: parries, alpha counters, tech rolls, custom combos, air blocking, air fireballs.

it features a new revenge gauge. the revenge gauge is a four sectioned meter that builds up as you take damage. once full you can unleash an unblockable attack..... crap I read that right... um you can also cancel this unblockable combo by dashing once canceld you can follow up with ex moves to continue juggles.... so every character has unblockables now....

its gonna be online

it also has something called an ultra combo which is pretty much a really long cinematic super sorta like the once in the naruto games...

man this sucks Ill put up more stuff later since Im still reading it

[Vicioso]

ok so I just got my egm (featuring ryu on the cover) and it includes alot of new info and screens, I dont have a scaner so I wont be able to post the screenshots but I can put some cliff notes for those that haventgotten the issue yet.

whats out: parries, alpha counters, tech rolls, custom combos, air blocking, air fireballs.

it features a new revenge gauge. the revenge gauge is a four sectioned meter that builds up as you take damage. once full you can unleash an unblockable attack..... crap I read that right... um you can also cancel this unblockable combo by dashing once canceld you can follow up with ex moves to continue juggles.... so every character has unblockables now....

its gonna be online

it also has something called an ultra combo which is pretty much a really long cinematic super sorta like the once in the naruto games...

man this sucks Ill put up more stuff later since Im still reading it

:sad:

fucken shit...

[box]

Some more information from the Neogaf forums:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215633


SF IV Info:

-Producer is Yoshinori Ono, who worked on SF Alpha, SF III, and oversaw Capcom Fighting Revolution

-Ono wants it to be the "second coming" of SF II. Wants it to feel like "homecoming" for SF II fans.

-Online play is planned with potential for microtransactions such as new characters and stages

-The look is not really similiar to the teaser trailer. A "cartoon-shaded style that manages to evoke SF II reimagined in 3d"

- runs in 60FPS

- Gameplay sticking with 2D- Ono wants to "preserve the strategic nature of SF II"

-camera doesn't budge

- Trying to get "as many SFII characters in as possible"

- Takes place after SFII Turbo and before SF III

-Controls are traditional- "in its current early state, the game feels remarkably close to Super SFII Turbo"

- Game is more aggressive- more about attacking than defending. Many of the SF III and Alpha gameplay systems have been scrapped.

- Producer says they haven't decided what platforms or even if there will be an arcade version. Version Shane played was running on a P.C

- Ono suggests Capcom could make a PS2 or DS version if "they deem the market suitable"

-Ono not enthusiastic about making it an exclusive- wants to get it out on as many platforms as possible

[KrsJin]

So far this is sounding fking godly and fun to me. Some of it is unexpected so it's throwing me off a bit, but the more I think about it, it sounds damn fun.

[parallaxscroll]

-Ono wants it to be the "second coming" of SF II. Wants it to feel like "homecoming" for SF II fans.

- Trying to get "as many SFII characters in as possible"




yes! this is what I've been dreaming about. I cannot believe Capcom was even remotely going to even go in that direction.

does the happy dance.

p.s. I want to see Guile's air base with F-16, re-imagined also, assuming Guile is playable.

[Stranger]

"- Ono suggests Capcom could make a PS2 or DS version if "they deem the market suitable""

I hope this doesn't affect the quality of the game...

[ReKo]

So you beat the crap out of your opponent and they are then rewarded with extra offensive options? Nice...

I'm glad all the rolls and that are out though - there's no need for gimmicks just a good, solid foundation.


Edit:

"...game feels remarkably close to Super SFII Turbo"
"...game is more aggressive- more about attacking than defending. Many of the SF III and Alpha gameplay systems have been scrapped."
"...preserve the strategic nature of SF II"


Neeeeevermind, fan-boy status has been resumed.

[Stranger]

man this sucks Ill put up more stuff later since Im still reading itWhy do you think that sucks ?

There's still more info we don't know yet.

[Nokato]

Wait,Wait,Wait,Wait,Wait,Wait,Wait,Wait,...

So the camera doesn't budge...well, that's good news at least. I don't get sprites but it stays strictly on 2-D plane. Ok, now the issue is do the screenshots look any better than the previous ones revealed?

[Eduardo24]

-Controls are traditional- "in its current early state, the game feels remarkably close to Super SFII Turbo"

Oh HELL YEAH!

[Duckdee]

*enjoying non-doooooom posts while they last*

Sorry, old habit from the City of Heroes forum. :)

[Nokato]

So, can someone scan some screens or at least tell whether or not there are new screens?

[bill_rizer]

So this is super turbo revamped? I like the sound of that, dont think the 3S people will though.

I dont like the sound of unblockable and ultra combos, defently sounds like their trying to hook in the Naruto kids with those gimmicks, so fair play.

Makes sense its going to be multi-format it is Capcom lol Wii will get a version if DS does.

What were the pictures they showed?

Damn nobody got a scanner?

Atleast their not far ahead into it, they can still drop that gimmick stuff.

[Eduardo24]

Yes, someone scan this shit.

[Stranger]

I dont like the sound of unblockable and ultra combos, defently sounds like their trying to hook in the Naruto kids with those gimmicks, so fair play.Didn't they just say the camera doesn't move around ? Because that's the whole point of ougis.

[Tigerboi]

re: what is 2D vs 3D, I think it comes down to sprites vs polygons.

.

Ok, allow me to crush this retarded POV before is grows into an epidemic.

What is 2D: 2D is only visually, 2D is something that only be viewed from one side and one side only. I.E. in 2D games, the viewpoint cannot be rotated (by the game itself or the player. ever.) as the game does not exsist on a 360 degree axis. This is why sprites are flat.

so, in order to avoid the obvious restriction involved with 2D, some developers set the view at an angle that gives the player more freedom. (Think, birdseye like zelda or top diagonal like beat em ups)

However, changing that view does not change the fact that it's 2-d because the same rules still apply.

2.5D (2d with a 3D look): The game in this case was intentionall designs to only be played on a 2d setting. 3D visuals were used for the sake of presentation, however, since the game is rendered in 3D, it can allow the devs to rotate the camera angles for the sake of cutscenes. (and, omg, fighting game intros)


NOTE: due to the basic laws of science THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 2.5D IN THE REAL WORLD. It's merely a visual term.



3D: All the chains are off. Movement possibilities are limitless, and the designers are free to choose how they want the player to move asround the enviroment on a much wider scale than in 2D. the game can be viewed from any side, at any angle, at any time.

EDIT: And the new info is win. Epic win.

[Master Bigode]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215633&page=3#133

Neo Gaf is stupid.

Yes, someone scan this shit.

:(

[Ferdinandz]

It's NeoGaf, they make bets about how much a console sold for that ongoing month.


...Seriously

[Gaijinblaze]

If it PLAYS on 2-D, how could it possibly not FEEL like 2D?

Not seeing the logic there.
I realize you said this a while ago, and I did read the last couple pages, but I hope you're kidding. If you can't notice the difference in feel from a 3D game that plays on a 2D plane and an actual properly designed 2D game, then it makes sense that you feel that way.

[bill_rizer]

Didn't they just say the camera doesn't move around ? Because that's the whole point of ougis.

eh?

Well I'm not sure what you're saying, it doesnt matter if the camera doesnt spin round like crazy but they said "cinematic effects" you seen the Naruto games right? when they do supers and is does all that shit, I think thats what they mean.

If you're stuck in a ultracombo I guess it doesnt matter if the screen is doing all that, because you can't do anything to stop it, unless that what this "revenge" thing is.

Hmm with this and SF HD that means two Super Turbo games lol good job that is my fav SF :P

Of course thats also bad if you don't, meh.

[Nokato]

I find it funny that at this moment, more info could be shared, this thread is the least lively...

[Stranger]

eh?

Well I'm not sure what you're saying, it doesnt matter if the camera doesnt spin round like crazy but they said "cinematic effects" you seen the Naruto games right? when they do supers and is does all that shit, I think thats what they mean.

If you're stuck in a ultracombo I guess it doesnt matter if the screen is doing all that, because you can't do anything to stop it, unless that what this "revenge" thing is.

Hmm with this and SF HD that means two Super Turbo games lol good job that is my fav SF :P

Of course thats also bad if you don't, meh.Ougis are those supers from Naruto that you're talking about. (The one that goes into a set animation, isn't it ?)

That's the whole point of ougis. If the camera doesn't move around and it doesn't have button combinations to press, then it won't be much like ougis.

[Tigerboi]

I realize you said this a while ago, and I did read the last couple pages, but I hope you're kidding. If you can't notice the difference in feel from a 3D game that plays on a 2D plane and an actual properly designed 2D game, then it makes sense that you feel that way.

That's an extremly redundant response. Do you mind explaining that better?

[bill_rizer]

Ougis are those supers from Naruto that you're talking about. (The one that goes into a set animation, isn't it ?)

That's the whole point of ougis. If the camera doesn't move around and it doesn't have button combinations to press, then it won't be much like ougis.

Oh right yea didnt know they were called that, I'm not into those games I only play them with my family and friends children, because obviously kids are into that more than SF lol, but I get what you mean now.

I assume in SF4 you do it without the button pressing, kind of like what we saw in the trailer.

[Lebowsk1]

Ok, allow me to crush this retarded POV before is grows into an epidemic.

What is 2D: 2D is only visually, 2D is something that only be viewed from one side and one side only. I.E. in 2D games, the viewpoint cannot be rotated (by the game itself or the player. ever.) as the game does not exsist on a 360 degree axis. This is why sprites are flat.

so, in order to avoid the obvious restriction involved with 2D, some developers set the view at an angle that gives the player more freedom. (Think, birdseye like zelda or top diagonal like beat em ups)

However, changing that view does not change the fact that it's 2-d because the same rules still apply.

2.5D (2d with a 3D look): The game in this case was intentionall designs to only be played on a 2d setting. 3D visuals were used for the sake of presentation, however, since the game is rendered in 3D, it can allow the devs to rotate the camera angles for the sake of cutscenes. (and, omg, fighting game intros)


NOTE: due to the basic laws of science THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 2.5D IN THE REAL WORLD. It's merely a visual term.



3D: All the chains are off. Movement possibilities are limitless, and the designers are free to choose how they want the player to move asround the enviroment on a much wider scale than in 2D. the game can be viewed from any side, at any angle, at any time.

EDIT: And the new info is win. Epic win.

Uh excuse me but how was my opinion different from this? You're "crushing" an opinion that's the same as yours.

i said that 2D basically means sprites (as in can only be viewed from one angle) and 3D is polygons (as in can be viewed from any angle).

Didnt you notice my example of Streets of Rage? It would be counter-intuitive to say it is a 3D game because I don't believe it IS a 3D game (because it is sprites, not about how yocu an move)

and my phone is ringing now

[Tigerboi]

Uh excuse me but how was my opinion different from this? You're "crushing" an opinion that's the same as yours.

i said that 2D basically means sprites (as in can only be viewed from one angle) and 3D is polygons (as in can be viewed from any angle).

Didnt you notice my example of Streets of Rage? It would be counter-intuitive to say it is a 3D game because I don't believe it IS a 3D game (because it is sprites, not about how yocu an move)

and my phone is ringing now

i wasn't trying to counter-point you.

[bill_rizer]

Uh excuse me but how was my opinion different from this? You're "crushing" an opinion that's the same as yours.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Gutter Trash]

Neogaf has been mega retarded for a while, it has gotten worse for the past year

Neogaf = sales, sales, sales, Nintendo circle jerk, sales, sales, sales, Nintendo circle jerk

[Eduardo24]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215633&page=3#133

Neo Gaf is stupid.



:(

GAF is useful for news and nothing else. They dont play games, they just talk about them (in many threads they have admitted to suck at fighters and RTSs alike). Its funny that he gave a link to that guile vs. ryu video, I suppose he wanted to show that fireballs are "cheap" lololol.

Fake edit: And yes, sales, sales, sales, IS THIS GAME COMING TO WII, sales.

[Master Bigode]

Neogaf has been mega retarded for a while, it has gotten worse for the past year



GAF is useful for news and nothing else. They dont play games, they just talk about them (in many threads they have admitted to suck at fighters and RTSs alike). Its funny that he gave a link to that guile vs. ryu video, I suppose he wanted to show that fireballs are "cheap" lololol.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214348&page=40#1986
:lol:

[Luckychrono777]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8886899&postcount=201
:rofl:

Anyway, I think these "unblockables" will be as useful as the one-hit kills in guilty gear, so it isn't worth worrying about.

[Ashenwraith]

that idea is just plain bad. if the models are stiff ala tekken you'd never achieve the expressive nature of the sprites in third strike, it would look like Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game 2. you need talented 2d artists to do that shit from scratch. look at Hugo for example and how bouncy he is and how he distorts when hit - id be damn surprised if they can match that expressiveness in 4.

Uhm no - you are completely clueless.

SF the movie was made mortal kombat style with live actors and by the same people who made MK.

Hugo looks like shit - its one of the most fucking ugly sprites ever made and it's huge.

It also animates like garbage (Even in the standing animation he just totters back and forth like a jack ass).

The only reason 3D graphics look clunky is because of hardware limitations and it's not rendered - you're obviously not up on the times at all.

Its easy as hell to just pose some keyframes out and the quality would be a lot better.

You could even do cell shading to get perfect anime style and with a few touch ups, have it better looking than any series because of the smooth framerate and accurate angles on all rotating pieces (notice rotating characters while they are moving is often avoided in anime)

The res for HD sprites is also only like 512x512 so you don't need super high quality textures and perfect details either.

Go see Beowolf and slap yourself in the face for being so ignorant.

Seriously.

[Pastries]

hugo's a decent sprite. huge yeah, but not one of the worst ever made--far from it. sounds like you've been giga'd a few too many times huh chum?

;)

[Gutter Trash]

-no Alpha air blocks = good.
Bison (Dictator) vs Charlie matches would last looooong until Time Out almost every time because Air Blocks dragged the matches into Time Out.

-removing parries was necessary if Capcom plans to keep as many SF2 characters in the game. Especially for large full screen charge characters, it would be insanely too easy to parry Blanka's ball, Honda's headbutt and Balrog's Dash Punches.
As a fan of large charge characters, I`m happy about this.

Im looking at SF4 with a smilel on my face so far.

[Stranger]

-removing parries was necessary if Capcom plans to keep as many SF2 characters in the game. Especially for large full screen charge characters, it would be insanely too easy to parry Blanka's ball, Honda's headbutt and Balrog's Dash Punches.
As a fan of large charge characters, I`m happy about this.Meh, in CVS2 it's not that easy to parry those moves because most of them are so fast you can only see it coming if it's too far away.

But it's harder to parry in CVS2 than 3S I think...

[lino]

Ok, allow me to crush this retarded POV before is grows into an epidemic.

What is 2D: 2D is only visually, 2D is something that only be viewed from one side and one side only. I.E. in 2D games, the viewpoint cannot be rotated (by the game itself or the player. ever.) as the game does not exsist on a 360 degree axis. This is why sprites are flat.

so, in order to avoid the obvious restriction involved with 2D, some developers set the view at an angle that gives the player more freedom. (Think, birdseye like zelda or top diagonal like beat em ups)

However, changing that view does not change the fact that it's 2-d because the same rules still apply.

2.5D (2d with a 3D look): The game in this case was intentionall designs to only be played on a 2d setting. 3D visuals were used for the sake of presentation, however, since the game is rendered in 3D, it can allow the devs to rotate the camera angles for the sake of cutscenes. (and, omg, fighting game intros)


NOTE: due to the basic laws of science THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 2.5D IN THE REAL WORLD. It's merely a visual term.



3D: All the chains are off. Movement possibilities are limitless, and the designers are free to choose how they want the player to move asround the enviroment on a much wider scale than in 2D. the game can be viewed from any side, at any angle, at any time.

EDIT: And the new info is win. Epic win.

the problem that i have with this, is that if you add a side step, most will say its 3d. while a roll or a parrie or even zangiefs lariat has the same effect as a side-step but its called 2d.

[johnnyutah001]

Uhm no - you are completely clueless.

SF the movie was made mortal kombat style with live actors and by the same people who made MK.

Hugo looks like shit - its one of the most fucking ugly sprites ever made and it's huge.

It also animates like garbage (Even in the standing animation he just totters back and forth like a jack ass).

The only reason 3D graphics look clunky is because of hardware limitations and it's not rendered - you're obviously not up on the times at all.

Its easy as hell to just pose some keyframes out and the quality would be a lot better.

You could even do cell shading to get perfect anime style and with a few touch ups, have it better looking than any series because of the smooth framerate and accurate angles on all rotating pieces (notice rotating characters while they are moving is often avoided in anime)

The res for HD sprites is also only like 512x512 so you don't need super high quality textures and perfect details either.

Go see Beowolf and slap yourself in the face for being so ignorant.

Seriously.

and you call me ignorant? wow.

good job making yourself look stupid.

[Gutter Trash]

Meh, in CVS2 it's not that easy to parry those moves because most of them are so fast you can only see it coming if it's too far away.

But it's harder to parry in CVS2 than 3S I think...

I slso found P Groove in CVS2 to be infact harder to use then the SF3s. But i`m not a frame number cruncher, so I dont know

[Shin Akuma]

IIRC:

3S = 9 frames
CvS2 = 3 frames

[Henaki]

IIRC:

3S = 9 frames
CvS2 = 3 frames
lol no

[SweetJohnnyV]

Some more information from the Neogaf forums:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215633

All that shit sounds pretty dope to me :tup:

[Stranger]

I slso found P Groove in CVS2 to be infact harder to use then the SF3s. But i`m not a frame number cruncher, so I dont knowBut there are benefits as well.

For example, with characters like Gouki, Ken, and Ryu, you can parry + shoryuken everything in the game, basically. Even supers.

[Eduardo24]

Shane Bettenhausen (EGM/1-up) blog:

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8523730&publicUserId=1002415

Good news: the drama regarding last week's screenshot leak has finally subsided, and readers are finally starting to get their hands on our long awaited Street Fighter IV issue. Personally, I'm settling in with some popcorn to watch the idiotic fireworks exploding across message boards all over the globe. Once you actually read the story, you'll know all about the long, difficult journey that this game has had from its inception...and you'll delve into its nuanced, complex gameplay systems that will push the franchise further than even hardcore SF3 players expected. But most of the vitriol kids are spewing about the game has no basis in rational, reasonable thought.

Here are some all-too-predictable samples:

"Street Fighter 4 sounds like an abortion."

"SF4 should just be called SF2: With added shit."

"Ooooooh boy SFIV sounds like a mess."

"NO PARRIES HOLY SHIT. SF4 SUCKS CONFIRMED?!?!?!

"No arcade release? Game will be balls."

C'mon guys, seriously? Can't we all get along here? You haven't read the article yet. You haven't seen the game in motion yet. You haven't played it yet. Can you please try to maintain some semblance of enthusiasm for the franchise that you allegedly love? It's funny, my cover story ends with quotes illustrating the Director's all-too-real fears that surly, hard-to-please fans would savage game will be on message boards around the world. Sadly, he was right! Please, if somewhere in your coal-black heart you can still remember what it felt like to play Street Fighter II (or Alpha...or SFIII) for the first time, try to maintain an open mind about this game. Read my story...then let me (and the world at large) know what you think about it.

[Luckychrono777]

^Ha, those quotes are from the NeoGAF thread as well.

[Stranger]

This is from Buktooth's tutorial:

CVS2: "- Forward and down parries both have the same stats: They have a 5 frame parry
window if you HOLD the direction on the stick, and a 10 frame parry window if
you let the stick go back to neutral after tapping a direction."

I don't have anything for 3S, though.

[alien nose job]

ah, I promised myself not to get sucked in these debates, but hell, it's like a traintrack...

It's not to diss anyone or any particular feedback, personally, I don't care much for 3D graphics, so, no matter what I'll give SF4 a try with (hopefully) a fresh look when it comes but it wasn't what I desired so I suppose I'll end up sticking to 3S (and yes, since I'm not blind, I smelt polygons coming since the trailer... I mean, I'm not all "wtf? no 2D???")

ok.
A very commonly spread idea amongst people (all over the world?) is that 3D graphics are realistic.
Get down the corner in your street and you can find for sure people willing to talk about 3D "realism"... showing you a Halo screenshot and selling you the "incredible realism of these 3D graphics!!!!!!!111", but the truth is that "realism" is a very subjective idea...
If you show me Halo and tell me it is realistic, I can't help but look aside the screen and notice it has absolutely nothing to do with reality outside the screen (and I'll also think you're crazy btw), or the way I (we?) perceive it.

The thing is, we are getting used to see 3D.
everywhere.
And 3D games are extremelly immersive (FPS, Resident Evil anyone?).
These are the reasons some people get that "realistic" feeling from 3D.
The side effect is that, the more we get used to 3D, the faster we start to notice how unrealistic (compared to its claims) 3D is.
It evolves very fast and so do our eyes. In a few years -no matter how good looking we think it is just now- it will look very outdated, clumsy and ugly as fuck (well, it would be funny to see a new gen of retro gamers loving old low ploy 3D games).
Please note that I'm not talking about the graphics style but about their nature.

The same phenomenon happened when photography was discovered, people started looking down on drawing, considering it was worthless, outdated compared to the "realism" of photography, and it took many (many) years before people understood photography was different than the way we perceive things (yes it is) and that in some aspects, drawing still had the upper hand (expressionism to name the least).
Hundreds of years of artistry proved drawing stood strong as a visual expression.

Eventhough 3D technology has made a few giant's leaps, 3D is not ready yet not to look ugly to us very soon since it relies so much onto technology. (<= ok, this is my opinion)

So, no, 3D was not the only relevant option to make SF4, since it's designed to play exclusively on a 2D plane, thus, its use was not a matter of necessity.

here, 3D has it's advantages, moving through replays or intros, variant costumes/features, possibility to make chars customable.

and so does 2D, vibrant animation, lively characters, and this is a bit biased but top 2D art still looks a lot better than any kind of 3D you can throw at me.
Really, aside pixar movies (and just the Tekkon Kinkreet anime which is an incredible hybrid 2D/3D), anything 3D looks the exact same, moves the same and looks absolutely dead.

So, the only "advantages" to make a 2D SF4 with 3D graphics are fan service (extra costumes yelling, blah, blah, blah...) and to try to sell it to all these people out there that are convinced that 3D is "better" than 2D. (while it is -if you got lost in the reading- just different)
After the absolute top 2D art (I love the gameplay but this is not my point here, really) in 3S (ok, ugly backgrounds, so what?) I really see the use of 3D here as a step back (as I do feel that game may be "SFII again edition")

The bottom line is, we should wait and see how it animates before dissing it.
And there was nothing bad or stupid in wanting it sprite based.
(btw, about the fan service extra downloadable costumes thingie, now that I think of it, it could be doable with a 2D fighter too if programmed accordingly, no?... a bit more painstaking, but it would just be modding sprites and a bit of prog, not completely making new chars, someone with programmation knowledge there?)
Ok, I push the button of doom and post all that crap -sigh-:rolleyes:

[Bass X0]

have you got the new egm yet?

[UltraDavid]

Haha "SF2: With Added Shit" is hilarious, wish I could rep that dude.

[Shade]

Shane Bettenhausen (EGM/1-up) blog:

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8523730&publicUserId=1002415

The all too real truth. He literally described 50% of the post made in this thread alone. I'm sure it's alot worse at 1up, though.

[COUM]

Haha "SF2: With Added Shit" is hilarious, wish I could rep that dude.

Isn't that pretty much what Alpha 2's system was? Could be worse.

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

I wanna understand something...

Since 10/17 we've been getting quite a lot of good stuff regarding the SF franchise. And with of course the advent of IV comin out (can't speak for everyone) but I'm definitely anticipating the game... HECK - I just wanna see the next EGM issue!

Question is - despite all this yummy info, what's with all the complaints? We really don't know too much about IV anyway...

[Taito]

Yeah, the day I find another site that breaks news faster than GAF is the day I wipe GAF from my browser. Bunch of depraved slugs who don't actually enjoy the games they whine about year after year.

[Eduardo24]

They have been VERY stupid for quite a while now, though.

[DarthTrey]

(btw, about the fan service extra downloadable costumes thingie, now that I think of it, it could be doable with a 2D fighter too if programmed accordingly, no?... a bit more painstaking, but it would just be modding sprites and a bit of prog, not completely making new chars, someone with programmation knowledge there?)
Ok, I push the button of doom and post all that crap -sigh-:rolleyes:

Its not probable. With 3d you jsut set anchorpoints on the model and then that is where the custom do-hickies would go, draw every frame of animation for where you would want Custom-do-hickie-X to go. So if it was a hat you would need to lay out animation frames for every character for that hat, where as if it's a 3d model it uses the heads anchor point and gets automatically transformed when the model animates(as it is considered part of the models geometry at that point).



On a side note random SF 4 hate makes me lol we know very little and there are already so many people claiming this going to be a horrid game. RELAX and have faith I say. If you don't like it you can always play Guilty Gear :P

[Ashenwraith]

The bottom line is, we should wait and see how it animates before dissing it.


Every game company posts screenshots and expects their viewers to render judgement based on that.

ONLY Capcom has the community and employees I know of to constantly praise the mantra, "Wait till you see it in motion to judge!"

I doubt when people walk by a harry potter poster they say something like, "Wait till you see his arm in motion - it's so much better!!"

Seriously, why is it that Capcom is the only company that makes games that can only be viewed properly when in motion?

[Spooty Whiteboy]

I posted this in the other thread. Thought I'd put it here too, since more people probably check this one.

Ok. I just read the mag. Here are the details. I made sure to read into everything, so this should answer some questions.

There are two meters:
- The Revenge Meter, which builds up by getting hit.
- The Super Meter, which we will assume builds up by attacking.

The Revenge Meter:
- The Revenge Meter is made up of four sections.
- There are 3 uses for the Revenge Meter; they are EX moves, a Saving attack, and an unblockable Saving attack.
- EX moves act just like in SFIII. They cost one section. They can be canceled with a forward, or backward, dash.
- Saving attacks are executed with HP+HK. They cost one section. They are invincible. They can be canceled with a forward, or backward, dash.
- The unblockable Saving attack is done by holding down HP+HK to charge-up a normal Saving attack. It cost three sections. It is invincible.

The Super Meter:
- It is to be assumed that there is one section in the Super Meter.
- Currently every character has one super. Ryu's Shinkuu Hadoken, for example, is done the same way as in ST. It uses the Super Meter.
- An Ultra is performed by doing the super motion with two buttons. The Ultra cost the Super Meter as well as one section of the Revenge Meter. It is longer than normal supers, and include dramatic camera angles.

Taunt:
- Taunts are performed by pressing MP+MK

Throw:
- Throws are performed by pressing LP+LK

Quick Rise:
- Performed by pressing down+K as your character hits the ground.

The best quote of the interview:
"...throws are still cheap..."

And about the one super.

Well, I said "currently" because in the mag Ono states that he isn't sure what he wants to do with supers. He is trying to decide whether to do it like ST (one super), SFA (multiple supers at all times), or SFIII (multiple supers to choose from), or maybe something different.

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

I think I REALLY like the sound of this!

[Stranger]

One super for each ?


I'm pissed.

[Ashenwraith]

The all too real truth. He literally described 50% of the post made in this thread alone. I'm sure it's alot worse at 1up, though.

And what truth is that?

That people who don't like something can voice their opinion?

If anything Capcom is happy to hear these comments because at least it shows they can prevent another SFEX flop by changing gears or dropping the project.

When you have something good and reliable you only replace it with something better.

It is a simple rule of thumb summed up as MAKING PROGRESS.

Blaming the fans of Street Fighter for it is just stupid.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

One super for each ?


I'm pissed.

Re-read the bottom of my post.

Remember, the game is only 1%-2% done.

[Stranger]

the game is only 1%-2% done.Who said that ?

Also, how many pictures are in the mag ?

[alien nose job]

Seriously, why is it that Capcom is the only company that makes games that can only be viewed properly when in motion?

Ha, damn, all that endless blabbering from me and I'm still misunderstood.
bah, ok, what I meant is that 3D's movement is a very important point, even motion captured 3D anim doesn't look good, it moves like 3D moves, neither as good as trad anim or as real life (weird, hu?).

I wasn't struck by the anim of the trailer, to me it moved like most 3D objects move.

3D animators that are able to make 3D move as well as top hand drawn anim (I mean to make it look as alive as top 2D anim) are very scarce.
Still there are some. (a few aside pixar too)
So, yes, seeing how the game animates is important and could make it look better since half of what makes 3D potentially ugly is the way it moves.

The same goes pretty much for 2D but for different reasons.
Lets say as an example, that the first screen of SFIII3S you ever see is, say, gouki making a jump HK and that the screen happened to be on the frame where the artist exagerated the overstretched leg -there is always one frame like that, I suppose you know that already, just in case- you may end up "wow wow wow, wtk dhalsim!?" And still 3S anim is plain perfect.

We may just think it looks bad (for those who dislike it) because the screens are on the wrong frames/on unusal angles that will differ from the ingame angles/look.
(... damn, why am I defending 3D?)

I don't like 3D, but if it moves well, it could end up better even for me that is really not into polygones.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Who said that ?

Also, how many pictures are in the mag ?

Ono said that in the interview. And there are about 12 pictures, including the 3 we've already seen.

[Stranger]

Ono said that in the interview. And there are about 12 pictures, including the 3 we've already seen.Jesus... I thought they've been working on the game for some time now.

2% ?

[Hawk]

Jesus... I thought they've been working on the game for some time now.

2% ?

The fact it's taking forever ups the chances of a quality product.

Ono said that in the interview. And there are about 12 pictures, including the 3 we've already seen.

3? I've seen one with Ryu and one with an ugly-ass Ken doing a hurricane kick. Where's the third?

[caliagent#3]

The description of the game system has me hype. good shit capcom, no parries, good shit.

now, does anyone have the mag or has seen it in stores yet???

[Spooty Whiteboy]

3? I've seen one with Ryu and one with an ugly-ass Ken doing a hurricane kick. Where's the third?

There was the official one of Ryu. Then the two leaked screens. One of Ken doing a hurricane kick. And one of Ryu throwing a hadoken and Ken jumping over it.

[Ashenwraith]

Ha, damn, all that endless blabbering from me and I'm still misunderstood.
bah, ok, what I meant is that 3D's movement is a very important point, even motion captured 3D anim doesn't look good, it moves like 3D moves, neither as good as trad anim or as real life (weird, hu?).

I wasn't struck by the anim of the trailer, to me it moved like most 3D objects move.

3D animators that are able to make 3D move as well as top hand drawn anim (I mean to make it look as alive as top 2D anim) are very scarce.
Still there are some. (a few aside pixar too)
So, yes, seeing how the game animates is important and could make it look better since half of what makes 3D potentially ugly is the way it moves.

The same goes pretty much for 2D but for different reasons.
Lets say as an example, that the first screen of SFIII3S you ever see is, say, gouki making a jump HK and that the screen happened to be on the frame where the artist exagerated the overstretched leg -there is always one frame like that, I suppose you know that already, just in case- you may end up "wow wow wow, wtk dhalsim!?" And still 3S anim is plain perfect.

We may just think it looks bad (for those who dislike it) because the screens are on the wrong frames/on unusal angles that will differ from the ingame angles/look.
(... damn, why am I defending 3D?)

I don't like 3D, but if it moves well, it could end up better even for me that is really not into polygones.

Yeah, but you can animate cellshaded cartoony style in 3D.

Most of the cereal ads now all feature 3D cartoon characters if you didn't notice.

[The Mullah]

okay i've read the article. my thoughts

Graphics aren't so bad, in fact some shots looked pretty nicevbut even egm weren't that impressed. Since this has to draw millionsof players back into the fighting game fold and since the producer loves to check forums for people complaining i'm sure he\ll realise we all loved the CG intro and want amazing graphics, not decent ones.

the gmeplay mechanics seems okay to me. the unblockable thing has to be charged so hopefully wont be used outside of casual matches by scrubs. the invincible thing just sounds like a super move that crap players will be able to do, and you can cancel other moves etc after it by dashing (blue dash in the trailer ?) which uses up quarters of your meter. with tight damage scaling, it could open up interesting combos.

and its only 2 % done. the producer seems to have our love for the gME IN MIND.

[DarkNecrid]

Anyone else feel that GGPO is all in?

"We're using existing online technology"

and

"you just have to find a way to work around them"

totally says GGPO for me, considering GGPO hides the latency with tricks, its working around the lag...

[Ashenwraith]

Anyone else feel that GGPO is all in?

"We're using existing online technology"

and

"you just have to find a way to work around them"

totally says GGPO for me, considering GGPO hides the latency with tricks, its working around the lag...

Good point.

Someone REP this guy.

[kev_the_bev]

SF the movie was made mortal kombat style with live actors and by the same people who made MK.

uh, what? no it wasn't.

[Stranger]

Ono said something interesting.

... ... ... "If you look at SF:HF on XBLA, it might not be the highest-quality product, but the fact that it sold so well despite that proves a lot of people are really into this series"

"I don't feel that the brand is dead in the US. - It is like a sleeping giant, but we want to kick him in the ribs and wake him up".

[alien nose job]

Ashenwraith, if you can't see how cel shaded stuff moves compared to top 2D, I can't help you there and won't try to persuade you.

ah, I promised myself not to get sucked in these debates, but hell, it's like a traintrack...
[...blabbering...]
Ok, I push the button of doom and post all that crap -sigh-:rolleyes:

:wonder:
bah, nevermind.
I'll stop posting there as it is a waste of time.
I just gave my opinion and I don't plan on taking over the world by talking people into believing me.

[DevilJin 01]

IIRC:

3S = 9 frames
CvS2 = 3 frames

3S is like 10 frames (red parry only 2 frames). CVS2 is more like 7 or 8 frames. JDing an attack in K groove was like 6 frames.

[Ashenwraith]

Ashenwraith, if you can't see how cel shaded stuff moves compared to top 2D, I can't help you there and won't try to persuade you.



:wonder:
bah, nevermind.
I'll stop posting there as it is a waste of time.
I just gave my opinion and I don't plan on taking over the world by talking people into believing me.

What you're missing is that people can easily make animated looking material fast from 3D IF they wanted to.

One of the reason why rendered cell shaded does look quite right is the frame rate is so high and the animation is interpolated.

That's easy to fix if you really don't want that - just render keyframes.

Yes, 3D rendered doesn't cell shading look 100% exactly like anime, but if you hire a 2D artist to do touch ups he can quickly finish a sprite sheet that looks amazing and perfect VS sketching everything from scratch and using a big animation studio.

Get my point?

[DarkNecrid]

I'd hate to break the Makoto fans hearts, but during Street Fighter 2, Makoto would of been ~11.

If its in between SF2 and SF3, she'd be like ~13-14, much too young to actually of been DECENT at her karate!

[quiche]

I dunno. How old was Sakura?

...seriously.

[Eduardo24]

Don´t take the "2% done" way too seriously guys. Besides Milky the Milkman says they have been sitting on this cover story for quite a long time.

[ilazul]

EDIT: Nevermind, already posted.

[Mychale]

-Ono wants it to be the "second coming" of SF II. Wants it to feel like "homecoming" for SF II fans.


I hope thats a mistranslation.

[goodm0urning]

I'd hate to break the Makoto fans hearts, but during Street Fighter 2, Makoto would of been ~11.

If its in between SF2 and SF3, she'd be like ~13-14, much too young to actually of been DECENT at her karate!Sakura was supposed to be 14 or so in SF Alpha 2.

[ilazul]

lol, in the interview in egm they confrim that poison is a guy. In the states he's a post op and in japan he just "tucks it away"

hahaha.

Someone put up scans, I can post the links but can someone confirm if I'd get canned for it?

[The_Trigger]

So I'm excited again. Sounds like a lot of the things that sounded like shit are actually going to be pretty cool. As long as "Revenge" doesn't end up broken, that is.

[MrWizard]

NO scans allowed, go buy the mag.

[ilazul]

NO scans allowed, go buy the mag.

alright, thanks for answering. I did buy the mag, but it's not here yet. Stupid world that doesn't cater directly to my needs.

[MiLky]

Anyone else feel that GGPO is all in?

"We're using existing online technology"

and

"you just have to find a way to work around them"

totally says GGPO for me, considering GGPO hides the latency with tricks, its working around the lag...

I'm pretty sure that GGPO was made for sprite based games. I'm not sure if it will work for a 3D engine. Ponder or someone in the know, correct me if I'm wrong.

Other than that, the new info has me pretty hyped, sounds like it could be moving in a good direction.

I live in Hawaii and will buy the Magazine, in like 2 weeks when it gets here. For now... goes off to comb the web for the scans.

[Ashenwraith]

uh, what? no it wasn't.

Depends on how you look at it: employees from Incredible Technologies went to Midway and both games were ported to console by Acclaim.

[Tea]

Alien Nose Job...
I'm also a big fan of 2d Sprites (i'm a spriter myself)... but there are important production and gameplay factors that are helped when going 3d.
Along the lines of the process required to animate a hat that was given---moves can be more easily tweaked and added if they're 3d. When motion capturing, you do countless animations/poses and have them captured, then put in the ones you want then animators fix them up nice.
With 2d games, a few extra animations are done, SOMETIMES, then that's all you have. If there are last minute changes that need to be done or for updates for the game, 3d allows for a much faster and effective process. If you need a new move for 2d, you would have to ask the art peeps to crank out a buncha new sprites. To just tweak 2d moves you have options, some ending in something very ugly, so what's left is to adjust the hit boxes... then that can be silly if you needed an extreme alteration to a move.
I'm not sure if SFIV will have access to them, but I know for a fact that Capcom has some amazing 3d animators and it's not like 3d in the past has been so bad-DMC,T4,SCII are my top picks.

[DarkNecrid]

I'm pretty sure that GGPO was made for sprite based games. I'm not sure if it will work for a 3D engine. Ponder or someone in the know, correct me if I'm wrong.

I can tell you your wrong, internet mechanics just dont change based on 2D/3D bud! GGPO itself is just a netplay code, though the client for FBA is also called GGPO.

[MiLky]

I can tell you your wrong, internet mechanics just dont change based on 2D/3D bud! GGPO itself is just a netplay code, though the client for FBA is also called GGPO.

Thanks for the clarification, I swear I read different somewhere, but am glad that I am wrong.

[DarkNecrid]

Thanks for the clarification, I swear I read different somewhere, but am glad that I am wrong.

Well don't get me wrong, you need to change the GGPO code per game etc (pretty sure Ponder said this), but its pretty possible.

[typetenchi]

Hey guys, I dunno if this has already been mentioned but I figured it wouldn't hurt to remind. Tomorrow is part 1 of the four week blow out to SF on 1up. Heres the link:

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3164488

Tomorrows thing may not be so hot but the preview of each section seems good.

[SweetJohnnyV]

Hey guys, I dunno if this has already been mentioned but I figured it wouldn't hurt to remind. Tomorrow is part 1 of the four week blow out to SF on 1up. Heres the link:

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3164488


Good lookin' out :tup:

[CptMunta]

So I read the artcile, put alot my doubts to rest. Ono seems like a good guy seems to have his head on straight in regards to how to stay true to fans and reinject some life back into the series.

He also has a clear picture on how Street Fighter lost alot of it's causal players and says he's sorry about Capcom Fighting Jam.

Ikeno is part of the character design team!

Looking forward to seeing what else the come with and the gameplay trailer on it's way!

[alien nose job]

Alien Nose Job...
I'm also a big fan of 2d Sprites (i'm a spriter myself)... but there are important production and gameplay factors that are helped when going 3d.
Along the lines of the process required to animate a hat that was given---moves can be more easily tweaked and added if they're 3d. When motion capturing, you do countless animations/poses and have them captured, then put in the ones you want then animators fix them up nice.
With 2d games, a few extra animations are done, SOMETIMES, then that's all you have. If there are last minute changes that need to be done or for updates for the game, 3d allows for a much faster and effective process. If you need a new move for 2d, you would have to ask the art peeps to crank out a buncha new sprites. To just tweak 2d moves you have options, some ending in something very ugly, so what's left is to adjust the hit boxes... then that can be silly if you needed an extreme alteration to a move.
I'm not sure if SFIV will have access to them, but I know for a fact that Capcom has some amazing 3d animators and it's not like 3d in the past has been so bad-DMC,T4,SCII are my top picks.

ah, yes, I won't deny that 3D gets the process of creating the game and customizing it muuuuuuuch easier and flexible, and I will admit for sure that DMC4, T4, etc and most 3D anim looks pretty decent.

I never meant the opposite, but I was stressing the fact that we are swapping top 2D anim (and thus extremely lively besides beautyful) for decent 3D anim, except if we are extremely lucky and as you say Capcom has 3D animators of a superior level. (the level of pixar for me is the only one I can see that comes close to top 2D)
I did say, wait and see.
But I may just be too demanding with movement since I'm pretty concerned by it professionally myself. This is why DMC (etc...) looks just decent to me.
Btw, in DMC4, 3D movement is meaninful compared to SF, because the dynamic camera angles and the way your char can move is what the game is about and you are very immersed in it, while in SF since -as Ono stressed- it plays on a 2D plane, you are merely a spectator and it is not as immersing and meaninful.
(btw, this must be the reason why looking at T4 is more painful than looking at DMC4)
In the end, 3D appears to happen mainly for fanservice, production process, the "coolness" and makerting appeal of it.

But after reading the Ono interview it turns out that all this blabbering I started is pointless anyway (good thing) since Capcom is not aiming at something "realistic" (there, they made the best choice and the more creative in my opinion). Plus all this "get to see your opponent's face getting beaten really hard" looks like a good effort at making it more expressive than 3D, used in a "realistic" way is.

I was not really arguing about the game itself (and will take what capcom gives us anyway), but just standing up tall before all this "3D is better than 2D" that I felt underlying in these 46 (holy crap!) pages of pointless debate.
Especially when people bring up the "realism" of 3D grafx and fail to distinguish technology level from the so called realism and don't realize 2D and 3D both have different assets and flaws. :wgrin:
In a word, I can't stand 3D fanboyism. (yes I do like a lot of 3D games too)

:::EDIT:::
Maybe I should tatoo something stupid on my leg like "2D will never die!!" (with the classic arcade font of course):wgrin:

[Desk]

people are reporting that the guy interviewed in the mag says 'the camera doesn't budge' or something along those lines. This is a direct contradiction to the SF4 press release...

'The characters and environments are rendered in stylized 3D computer graphics (CG), while the game is played in the classic Street Fighter 2D perspective with additional 3D camera flourishes'

I'm not saying people are misquoting the mag but it kind of suggests that we shouldn't believe everything that's being said (even by the makers of the game). Either because things will change or we're simply misunderstanding what's being said. Also that press release quote suggests that during throws, super and ultra's (urgh!) the camera will go all cinematic ala VF and Tekken. No bad thing if you ask me, doesn't mess with gameplay and will probably look cool.

I'm probably the only one but I'm avoiding the scans 'cos I'm going to pick up EGM (or a maybe another mag with info in it) in time for xmas and I don't want it to be ruined :)

EDIT: also look out for the EGM site update htting today, probably not much SF4 coverage but the SF retrospective should be an interesting watch.

[CPS_3]

people are reporting that the guy interviewed in the mag says 'the camera doesn't budge' or something along those lines. This is a direct contradiction to the SF4 press release...

'The characters and environments are rendered in stylized 3D computer graphics (CG), while the game is played in the classic Street Fighter 2D perspective with additional 3D camera flourishes'

I'm not saying people are misquoting the mag but it kind of suggests that we shouldn't believe everything that's being said (even by the makers of the game). Either because things will change or we're simply misunderstanding what's being said. Also that press release quote suggests that during throws, super and ultra's (urgh!) the camera will go all cinematic ala VF and Tekken. No bad thing if you ask me, doesn't mess with gameplay and will probably look cool.

I'm probably the only one but I'm avoiding the scans 'cos I'm going to pick up EGM (or a maybe another mag with info in it) in time for xmas and I don't want it to be ruined :)

EDIT: also look out for the EGM site update htting today, probably not much SF4 coverage but the SF retrospective should be an interesting watch.


No contradiction here, he didn't say there is NO camera movement, he said that there will only be camera movements during the super super combos and in replays but that's about it.

[Desk]

well at least 3 people have said 'the camera won't move'. So I guess I am saying people are misquoting him then, lol.

EDIT: err, yeah... people are replying to me like I'm an idiot. The quote on this forum (and neowhatever) says 'the camera doesn't budge' no allowances are made for supers and stuff. That kind of says to me that the camera doesn't move, no? Which cantradics the press release. This is because I only have the info on this forum to go off and that turns out to be wrong, simple.

leebee link: i, like, understand... and stuff.

[Leebee Link]

well at least 3 people have said 'the camera won't move'. So I guess I am saying people are misquting him then, lol.

It doesn't move normally it moves during Ultras.

[Ultima]

I'm checking out the scans AND buying the mag. This is history!

Surely, since Seth was there with the EGM guys, he can tell us what he thinks of the game so far?

[asianhitler]

If super meter and ex meter is separate then the following is probably possible:

Ryu: jump-in hk, hp, ex fireball, dash-in, shinsho
Ken: replace shinsho with shinreppa (is that what the upperward super is called?)

Lets say ex fireball had 3s properties and it did 2 hits. The first hit doesn't knock down right? You could probably do ...hp, ex fireball, dash up, first hit of ex fireball hits, hp, 2nd hit of ex fireball, shinsho.

If you could still cancel specials into super, replace 2nd hp with dp. Combos will be crazy in this game...

[COUM]

One thing I don't understand is the Saving Strike system. Is there something special about it that allows you to dash cancel and juggle with EX moves afterwards, or are the juggling and dash cancel-ability of EX moves properties they have all the time, and the Saving Strike is just a 'combo starter' or launcher of sorts?

[buyproduct]

One thing I don't understand is the Saving Strike system. Is there something special about it that allows you to dash cancel and juggle with EX moves afterwards, or are the juggling and dash cancel-ability of EX moves properties they have all the time, and the Saving Strike is just a 'combo starter' or launcher of sorts?

I think unique thing about using saving strikes is when you get to use them. Your revenge meter only fills when you get hit. So you only have access to these ex moves, invincibles and unblockables once you have taken a fair share of damage. Saving moves are intended to be used as move that can change the momentum back into your favor, but its not guaranteed. You have to time your ex moves and cancels properly because they use stock, and in order to replenish that stock you have to take a beating. At least thats what I got from reading the article.

[Gutter Trash]

I hope that Super Arts for Charge Characters are QCFx2 motions and not Ch.b, f, b, f motions like the 3s. Urien, Q and Remy were able retiliate out of charge with these QCFx2 Super Arts.

Experts in ST were able to do a jumping in combos normal cancel into Super with a charge character, but in the heat of the battle these were insanely freakin' hard to pull off.

I do not fully understand yet how dash canceling works (I don't have the mag yet), matter of time.

[COUM]

I do not fully understand yet how dash canceling works (I don't have the mag yet), matter of time.

I've read the mag and honestly I still don't understand it totally; their explanation of how juggles work isn't totally clear.

Here are the rules it lists:

- Revenge moves (Saving Strikes, unblockable Saving Attacks and EX moves) can be canceled by a dash.
- After dashing to cancel a Revenge move, you can cancel the dash with another Revenge Move to continue the juggle (so presumably Revenge moves pop them up into the air to be juggled?)

It specifically gives the example of Saving Strike -> EX FB -> EX DP -> EX DP.

What does this mean? Is the juggle system so loose that juggles like this are always possible? Or do only Revenge moves juggle? Do Revenge moves juggle like this all the time, or only after being dash canceled into? Can you always cancel a dash with a Revenge move, or only if the dash was used to cancel another Revenge move? It's not clear about these things.

It's also gonna be interesting to see how well charge characters can manipulate this system. Maybe they could get around it by making moves you dash canceled into have zero charge time, I dunno.

[Nickoten]

I doubt they'll go back to the charge supers since they seem to be concerned about appealing to new players.

[chun li's thighs]

Scanned the past few pages and didn't see it, but this link has scans of the EGM article:



Pretty interesting stuff if you ask me.

Edit: I took the link off because I read a blurb somewhere here saying that scans are not allowed. I don't know if that goes for linking to a site with scans, but until I'm told otherwise by a reputable source, I'll take the link down.

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

You know what they DIDN'T mention in the article was if target combos from SF3 would be in the game. Those things were awesome - hopefully they'll bring 'em back because they'd probably widen the possibilities of the revenge/saving system.

Example: Ken

Cross-up MK -> close standing MP -> close standing HP -> HP Hadouken -> cancel -> EX Shoryuken -> Ultra

Done deal.

[DA GAME]

Any info on the characters?Who is coming back & who is new?

[Ultima]

Target combos are rubbish. If they want to appeal to new players, they should just implement limited chain combos (2-3 hits tops), which are more versatile, more friendly to beginners and require less memorization. They also need to bring back Sf2-style links.

[Nickoten]

I'd certainly like to be able to cancel out of Ryu's command normals, or go from a c.HK to a hadouken again.

[COUM]

You know what they DIDN'T mention in the article was if target combos from SF3 would be in the game. Those things were awesome - hopefully they'll bring 'em back because they'd probably widen the possibilities of the revenge/saving system.

Example: Ken

Cross-up MK -> close standing MP -> close standing HP -> HP Hadouken -> cancel -> EX Shoryuken -> Ultra

Done deal.

That wouldn't be possible anyway; you can't cancel normal specials with a dash, only EX ones.

Hopefully you won't be able to do Saving Strike juggles and then combo those into Supers/Ultras either, that seems way too excessive.

[gozulin]

Scanned the past few pages and didn't see it, but this link has scans of the EGM article:

http://google.com/

Pretty interesting stuff if you ask me.



I'm pretty sure you can't post links of scans here. That said, I read the article and it is FANTASTIC. Tons of great and useful info and answers to many important questions.

[Gaijinblaze]

Wow, an hour after the guy's edit. Ingenious. :rofl:

Edit - Urien and aegis needing to make a return is an accepted fact from this point on.

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

That wouldn't be possible anyway; you can't cancel normal specials with a dash, only EX ones.

Hopefully you won't be able to do Saving Strike juggles and then combo those into Supers/Ultras either, that seems way too excessive.

Well sub the regular Hadouken for the EX one - that should work right?

[DevilJin 01]

I'm pretty sure you can't post links of scans here. That said, I read the article and it is FANTASTIC. Tons of great and useful info and answers to many important questions.

Don't think it was smart of you to quote what he just posted.

[Ultima]

Also, hwo about cancelling dashes into attacks?

[Ultima]

Now that I've seen the actual description of the saving system, I can comment.

To me, the Saving System really seems like a multi-purpose RAGE Gauge. It builds up to a maximum of 4 stocks. With it, you can do one of four things:

- Quick dash Attack with limited invincibility (1 stock)
- Slower, unblockable attack with more invincibility that does good damage (3 stocks)
- EX Special move (1 stock)
- Ultra (1 stock + full super meter)

The catch is that the Saving Strike and the EX moves (not sure about the unblockable attack) can be canceled with a dash. Either as a result of this, or perhaps it's a natural occurrence but canceling helps you take advantage of it better, you can perform extended juggle combos with EX moves by canceling them with dashes in between. So you can do Saving Strike -> [dash -> EX move] x 3. I presume it also means you can do EX move -> dash -> EX move -> dash -> EX Move -> dash -> EX move. You might even be able to do Unblockable Strike -> dash -> EX Move, but I'm not sure.

So there will be a natural limit of 4 uses per full meter. It's a little strange, but I can see the potential: It separates the use of these abilities from the standard super meter. While they could have easily incorporated this system into the standard super meter, I assume that they wanted to separate the two, since super meter presumably build up by attacking and doing moves, while Revenge meter builds up by getting hit. Didn't Rumble Fish have something similar with its Offensive and Defense supers?

I can see this system being.. well, okay I guess. As I said, no alarm bells are going off in my head. I can see this adding some strategic elements and helping diversify characters more - perhaps the damage/properties for each character's Revenge system will differ, with some having much better Saving Strikes/EX moves than others, so not everyone will get the same reward for getting hurt. Maybe different characters build up Revenge meter at different rates: I can see, for example, a character with terrible stamina having a higher revenge meter rate to balance the character out. I can see potential in this system.

Ultras are still lame though.

Also, what's with the "no air FBs" thing? Air FBs aren't systems. >:|

[Havoc]

People are gonna have sick unblockable set-ups. I guarantee that.

Fuck, I will.

[COUM]

The problem I see with the system is that you can theoretically spend a whole round getting your ass kicked and then unleash a 4-stock Saving Strike -> EX x 3 combo to get you back on an even footing. This was already dumb with K Groove in CvS2, but at least there you had a time limit you had to spend your meter in, and once you spent it it was gone. Here, you have all the time in the world to spend your meter (so the opponent can't just play safe until its gone) and if you miss a Saving Strike, you only lose 1/4 of your meter, no need to commit to spending the whole thing. Sounds like it has the potential to be really, really stupid to me.

[gozulin]

Don't think it was smart of you to quote what he just posted.

Oh, gee! silly me! *giggles*, what an airhead I am. I've edited out the offending link, thanks! Good thing this is only the bastard sequel of an outdated classic that most gamers couldn't care less about.

So, anyways, I want to discuss something. Ono said they reached the 2D pinnacle with 3s and that 2D lovers have guilty gears and ST HD to play as consolation prizes.

I suppose I'm forced to agree with him. Animation is indeed much more important and 3rd Strike's animation is stellar (*hugs* Hugo). While a game with the charismatic roster and accessibility of SF2 CE, animation of 3s, character design and anime look of SFA running at 1080p/30fps would arouse me sexually, would the game really be a step forward the way SF2 was a massive step forward from SF1 and SF3 was a massive step bac..forward from SF2, shouldn't SF4 also be a massive step forward, especially after 10 years?

Don't get me wrong, If I had it my way, I would just hire 10 thousand koreans and make them draw 16 characters at 60 fps, 3 supers for each with non-recycled sprites and just start executing one animator a week until I'm happy with the art direction, designs and the efficiency of all the teams. This living nightmare will last for years and will be a traumatic experience that will unite them and inbue the game with a beautifully dramatic atmosphere that disturbs and moves at the same time.

Plus, I'd probably become the final boss of SF4. So as you can see, it's win-win.

However, we live in the real world and I just don't think Capcom can cost-effectively match, much less surpass the 3s animation. 3D is a compromise, some things will look worse in it, others will look nice (procedurally generated clothing and hair animations, more involving backgrounds (remember breaking barrels in sf2?), particle nd smoke effects and so forth have more potential than their 2D counterparts). Many others won't.

In other words, while I want SF4 to be 2D, I definitely want SF7 or SF8 in 3D. Incredibly gorgeous, more beautiful than a pixar anime and smoother than real life, softer polygones and unrealistic proportions and limb movement and so forth. But if that is to happen, we'll have to suffer from some shortcomings at first.


So, I do not know how to answer the question: If I had to power to make Ono change direction, would I? So, what do you guys think are the ways the game may succeed or fuck up, based on what we know so far?

For instance, I think the visual quality is a big risk! I definitely want a prettier looking game. Ono seems to think the game will come out around 2009 or 2010 so we'll see. It probably won't be that good looking though. Kinda like WoW (low poly, good art style). Also makes it more feasible for the potential PS2 version.

[Dragonfave723]

http://kotaku.com/gaming/graphics/2d-games-are-harder-to-make-than-3d-ones-332269.php

[Hol Horse]

Also, what's with the "no air FBs" thing? Air FBs aren't systems. >:|

that could be an hint about no Akuma/Gouki, no Rolento, no Ibuki in the cast :looney:

[SweetJohnnyV]

This living nightmare will last for years and will be a traumatic experience that will unite them and inbue the game with a beautifully dramatic atmosphere that disturbs and moves at the same time.


That just made me rawful :rofl:

[Pimp Willy]

what if "saving strikes" are highly punishable? Then it wont be so bad

[Nokato]

Like I learned, and I'm other a few here learned, the game is 2% complete, maybe more--but I really doubt by much. Despite the game utlizing 3-D models, the game will stay strictly on a 2-D plane and characters will run at 60 fps. At first, I was skeptical about 3-D anything, but after reading the article the game will hold pretty strong to a 2-D sensibility. I think that within the look of the game, although using 3-D models it could potentially still feel like a 2-D game. Whether or not this will happen has yet to be scene, but after reading the article, Ono desires to go in that direction. Trust me, I love 2-D sprites and a part of me would love to see it done that way but I think with what they're going for that same feel could be there but with the ability freely move the camera during (for lack of better word),"Ultras". This component alone pretty is the catalyst for using the 3-D models (just my opinion).

As anyone can see in this thread my thoughts and opinions drastically changed when I saw the first initial leaked photos, but after reading the article its best to just wait and see concerning the game. Theory fighter has already happened with the information about the battle system. It could be really broken, it could be really good. The thing that I remind myself now when it comes to anything I don't like about the game is that its.....2% complete.

I ate crow for not believing SF4 would come out, and I ate crow for reacting to the first leaked pics, because I was under the assumption due to something Svenson said earlier that the game was near completion. My opinion changed after reading the article. I'm not saying I'm expecting a perfect game but I'm willing