The sad vision people have of fighters.

[SNKZato1]

Not to cause a potential flame war, but our college has a gaming community (yay) which at this point has 2 people that are big into fighters. I post this because, as you'll see in the coming link people have such a pathetic and skewed view of fighters and it's really sad.
http://www.isu-uga.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=857&start=30
my name is NeoGeoSNK and my friend is DNE_ProtoLegend.
I post this merely to show how pathetic of an image people have of fighters, thinking they're button mashers, and that they do not understand the huge amount of skill they involve.
dicsucc.

[ImperialSport]

It's the shit we gotta deal w/.

Just take delight in their ignorance.

[COUM]

What more can you expect really? They're a niche genre and unlike other competitive genres such as RTS and FPS, high-level play isn't visible enough for people to realize it even exists. The best thing you can do is try to show people that they're wrong. If you do that and they still don't get it, just leave it alone.

One thing I can say for sure is that acting like a condescending, sarcastic asshole like you are in the thread you linked isn't going to persuade anyone to your way of thinking.

[Gaijinblaze]

Thought it was a bit funny how you immediately dropped a link to SRK. :lol: Just about every hobby you can think of has an online community that will support it. Maybe the first guy has ADD or something. That's a serious disorder.

[SNKZato1]

I agree, but it is really frustrating when their only argument is their lack of knowledge.

I don't mean to make this sound like oppression, but anyone else having gaming groups that just...don't get it?

[ImperialSport]

Sirlin said it best:

After all, the vast majority of the world is scrubs. I'd say by the definition I've classified 99.9% of the world's population as scrubs. Seriously. All that means is that 99.9% of the world doesn't know what it's like to play competitive games on a high level. It means that they are naive of these concepts. I really have no trouble saying that since we're talking about esoteric, experience-driven knowledge here. I also know that 99.9% of the world (including me) doesn't know how the citric acid cycle and cellular respiration create 38 ATP molecules per cycle. It's an esoteric thing of which I am unaware, just as many are unaware of competitive games.

Good shit.

And if you like,
Do what I do when I tell ppl that I play games.
Show them the Daigo vs Jwong clip :lol:

[SNKZato1]

What more can you expect really? They're a niche genre and unlike other competitive games such as RTS and FPS, high-level play isn't visible enough for people to realize it even exists. The best thing you can do is try to show people that they're wrong. If you do that and they still don't get it, just leave it alone.

One thing I can say for sure is that acting like a condescending, sarcastic asshole like you are in that thread you linked isn't going to persuade anyone to your way of thinking.

Some of that comes from a previously long argument with the mod at the site. The previous fighter thread was just completely flamed to hell by him, which if you ask me is not what a mod should do. However, intention can always be lost in text.

[CSS]

it's not something to get too worked up over, people will always have a condescending view on a subject they barely know

[marcusg]

I can't say I had this experience at my college. Although majority of the people play smash bros melee competitively and hardcore. But I got everyone into Guilty Gear and they all loved it. But only a minority really put time into learning the game. But now I have about 5 people playing fighters every so often and getting better so I guess thats a improvement.

But it won't top Melee or Brawl when it comes out.

[arstal]

I think Fighters are going to go through a slight rebirth in the next year- as online play really becomes established. VF5 may not sell well, but it's doing wonders for the level of play in the US.

Imagine what a high-selling game like SF4 or SC4 will be like.

[KrsJin]

I think Fighters are going to go through a slight rebirth in the next year- as online play really becomes established. VF5 may not sell well, but it's doing wonders for the level of play in the US.

Imagine what a high-selling game like SF4 or SC4 will be like.

Really does seem like a new wave of classics is coming huh.

But yeah. What's even more sad to me though, is not the ignorance the general public has towards fighters, but the ignorance players have towards fighters they may not have played.

We all have different tastes, but I find it whack when people treat players of certain games as outcasts or like they don't have proper taste.

As for this topic though, I agree with CSS when he says

it's not something to get too worked up over, people will always have a condescending view on a subject they barely know



Just can't get worked up over it, and have to be thankful/happy if you have people who do understand what you're about haha.

[Violent By Design]

This guys a dumb ass. What he says doesn't even make sense, generally its easier to button smash in 3D fighters then 2D. What a dumb ass. He's prob not competitive at all which is why hes such a herb.

[Murt!]

Yes, everyone here knows that most people are ignorant to the depth of fighters. But honestly, who cares?

[Cody Travers]

Some of that comes from a previously long argument with the mod at the site. The previous fighter thread was just completely flamed to hell by him, which if you ask me is not what a mod should do. However, intention can always be lost in text.

What type of mod does that crap? Oh yea this retard. I wouldn't worry about those retards. It happens all the time:mad:

[Atryu]

If being a scrub means not wasting countless hours of my life mashing buttons in a sequential order so that an anime hooker can beat up a guy in a pink jumpsuit, then count me in.

Yes, that is absolutely right... that is precisely what a scrub is. ^^ ...we count you in!

Anyway, I figured that it is nigh impossible to hook someone up with 2D fighters if this person is a "new-school gamer" (= plays WoW). You will die trying to convince him, but he will just not listen to you, and keep pretending he is the big dick and he "knows better". (especially on the internet... we all know that nobody ever changed his mind on a forum! ^^ )

But I think that flaming him for "not knowing/understanding" what it takes to be a relatively good fighting game player is not the right way to make your community grow.

I believe that if you want more active members of your "club", you should throw events to make people discover the world of fighting games, and have them interested by themselves.

What I would do, is organise a party with cheerleaders (or any hot chicks)!... and demonstrate the in-depth techniques of fighting games.

(And please don't tell me "If I had chearleader friends, I wouldn't be playing fighting games!"... ^^)

[Marble]

I know people who like fighters on a casual level but are still ignorent to their depth. I know someone who was telling me who much he used to own at SF2 and when I asked him what strats he used and he said "block, jump in, kick lots" and couldn't really elaborate. The same guy often said "You're supposed to button mash in fighting games." I'll see if I can get him to come over so I can beat him now that i've got a 2nd arcade stick coming in the mail..

The same guy says that Smash isn't a serious fighter and it's just a party game, but at least he'll play it with me.

I was chatting to someone who lives in another state and he was telling me he was a high level 3S player because he'd used a "kill shot" which is, apparently when you sit on your meter for the whole match and throw a super art when the opponent is low on health and just hope it connects. He was also saying that whoever wrote the 3S tier list on the SRK wiki had very little experience with the game, and saying other stuff, like I probably suck if I don't care about how many points I get. Yet he was saying he was rusty and was often confusing the game with A3. When people say such things on the internet I don't usually take it seriously, but I was getting a bit annoyed. I will so try and orgainize some matches with him if I ever go to his city.

Haha, sorry, that last paragraph was also just me just having a whine!

[Murt!]

... he was telling me he was a high level 3S player because he'd used a "kill shot" which is, apparently when you sit on your meter for the whole match and throw a super art when the opponent is low on health and just hope it connects.

:rofl:

[pherai]

You can't convince people of the depth and strategy of fighting games by trying to make the games they like sound shitty or easy. When you say "SF is great because of all these things it has that the game you play doesn't have" the person will naturally disagree and take it as an insult.

It must be some sort of elitist thing, but too often FG players will try to make FG's sound appealing by talking down any other type of game, thus making potential new players feel stupid. If learning a FG makes someone feel stupid, they aren't going to like it.

[Ry Guy]

Shit, it's been a long time since I posted here. I've been off experiencing the world of video games outside of fighters for a while.

Anyway, the thing is that we, the fighting game fans, are part of not so much a dying breed, but a breed that's never going to grow to be exceptionally large. We are people with the spirit of hardcore and arcade gaming. Fighters, shoot 'em ups, run and gun. Name any old school arcade genre and I can assure you that most of the world has moved on and exchanged these games for more casual experiences. The people that moved on are probably the people that spent ten dollars in an hour playing Time Crisis or Metal Slug.

We're the old school hardcore that was revealed once the popularity of arcades dwindled and the mainstream gaming community discovered the Playstation, that's all there is to it.

We're a breed of gamer that will get out asses kicked over, and over, and over, and over, and keep on relentlessly trying to get better without ever giving up, because we like our games just that fucking much. I'm not tournament level player, execution is my main issue, sometimes I'm kinda clumsy in the heat of battle. Regardless of that, I am happy to find good competition, even if it means I get flattened for hours by that one guy who pretty much never loses.

This is the value that makes us what we are, and the value that understandably, most people don't care to apply to fighters. You just gotta live with that. We're passionate about fighters. Other people are passionate about other things. Don't give them shit about their tastes unless they give you shit about yours.

</returning rant>

[Syxx573]

dne proto legend is my homie

[Marty]

It wouldn't bother me as much if people didn't use idiotic arguments. Every game under the sun is "pushing buttons in a sequential order". Suck my dick you ignorant anus.

It might have more weight behind it if one of the best selling games around (I'm speaking, of course, of Guitar Hero) wasn't exactly that.

[GosBroDansFan]

I consider myself only a casual fighting game player (read scrub). I'm not going to be winning any tournies anytime soon, that's for damn sure. But I enjoy the games and I really enjoy fun, casual matches in practically any game. I go to tournies when I can because the games are fun and in general there are a ton of great people to hang out with.

I play a lot of different types of games and spend an equal amount of time on each. But when I am playing with a group of other casual gamers, I almost never come across anyone interested in fighting games. We'll play them sometimes, but in general they'll sit there and mash and lose every time. They'll make jokes about how I spend all my time playing and it's not fair because I'm so good, when I'm not. Not at all.

I just get the feeling a lot of casual gamers feel fighting games are too complicated and too in-depth to deal with and it scares them a little. It puts them on the defensive and they just bash away rather than face a game they don't think they can ever do good at.

[ramza]

I consider myself only a casual fighting game player (read scrub). I'm not going to be winning any tournies anytime soon, that's for damn sure. But I enjoy the games and I really enjoy fun, casual matches in practically any game. I go to tournies when I can because the games are fun and in general there are a ton of great people to hang out with.

I play a lot of different types of games and spend an equal amount of time on each. But when I am playing with a group of other casual gamers, I almost never come across anyone interested in fighting games. We'll play them sometimes, but in general they'll sit there and mash and lose every time. They'll make jokes about how I spend all my time playing and it's not fair because I'm so good, when I'm not. Not at all.

I just get the feeling a lot of casual gamers feel fighting games are too complicated and too in-depth to deal with and it scares them a little. It puts them on the defensive and they just bash away rather than face a game they don't think they can ever do good at.

people need signs of their own improvement to encourage them. If all they see from the get go is losses, I could see 90% of casual players giving up from being discouraged.

[ImperialSport]

Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forfty percent of all people know that.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I can 99% say that 100% of our efforts are useless in trying to convince people that fighting games are serious and require more skill than button mashing.

People will play what they play, and most people aren't hardcore about ANYTHING, much less about the fighting genre. You have to have a lot of dedication and knowledge to get good at these games, and if you wanna become tournament level, you really have to get out of the house and play people pretty often. Most people aren't willing to do that.

Online SC4 and Smash Brothers Brawl and hopefully SF4 will bring in a lot of people to the fighting game community. But they won't be good. It just means the pots at tournaments will be larger.

No complaints here.

[Fall_Child42]

I convinced my sister (who works at a comic shop) to hold a game night, Complete with prizes, Though only about 12 people signed up for the SFIII tournament (and none were very good) they were at least willin to try for the possibility of winning free stuff.

So, instead of telling people why Fighting Games are superior to other games, because as it's been mentioned in this thread, these styles of discussions often lead to either out and out insults, or misunderstood language that makes the listener seem like it's an insult.

You have to just expose people to fighting games, get people to play, (I find free stuff makes people do just about anything) set up situations where they can play, and mabey just mabey, they'll enjoy it enough to begin to try and get better. We all started out not knowing how to do anything right? I remember thinking how awesome it was that I could do shoryukens in SFIICE over and over without messing up. (I also thought that constantly doing light Shoryuken, followed by a Fierce Shoryuken was a good strategy)

I played with friends who were better so I got better, then they got better etc etc.

so here are some strategies that may help,

Get people to play, (prizes, drinking games)

try to get them play people of equal ability sometimes... (don't just constantly destroy them over and over)

perhaps you'll find someone who will see what we see in Fighting games and begin to play more competitively.

[FSgamer]

I post this merely to show how pathetic of an image people have of fighters, thinking they're button mashers, and that they do not understand the huge amount of skill they involve.
dicsucc.
99% of the time those people know nothing or close to nothing about fighting games. Plus they're usually too lazy or too stupid to learn and understand the ins and outs of fighting games.

Just do like me, challenge them, beat the shit out of them. That will shut them up (if they don't keeping dodging your challenge, that is).

As for the masher comment, if you have a group of beginners playing against each other it is indeed a button mash fest, and it's pretty random who wins. However, anybody with a decent knowledge of the game should be able to defeat mashers wihout any problem.

Anyways, when you're dealing with people who can't think, it's pretty much a waste of time trying to show them all the skill that's invloved in playing fighting games. They'll always keep bringing up lame excuses for their losses.

[SNKZato1]

I agree with a lot of you on the basis of casual gamers not getting into complicated games (because fighters take a lot of practice to help make sense and natural unlike (and sorry if this sounds rude) an FPS which sort of feels natural from the get go). However, some people I know got into fighters by simply being open minded and spending a bit of time practicing, I never found it to be too hard to get into a fighter after a day of cocking about with the game. It's just frustrating when people denounce fighters or any classic "arcade style" games simply because of their old roots, and therefore they are simply button mashers and nothing more.

I actually played Pagelzz at SuperT about a month ago at a meeting. He immediately attacked the game for being old, lacking rolls, and not being smash bros. Others were having fun being nostalgic, but he couldn't get over such simple trivial things.

Ah well....you guys/gals definitely put it in a good perspective though, thanks!

[jugoso]

I've been visiting forums and online communities since more than a decade and I can say that arguing with people across the www is not a good idea. Normally, the guy in front of the screen couldn't care less for what you have to say. Forums, also, are normally infested by teenagers who think that posting shit like "I'M JESUSRAPTOR" o "DO A BARREL ROLL" is "hype"... well, some people never grow up and keep posting not because they want to know more things, to understand a little part of life or just hang around, but to see others having a bad time probably... reflecting how angry they are about their problems in their life.

BTW, do you know the inet slang "troll"?

[De4dEyE]

Just ignore them. You'll always run into people that dislike what you find fun.

[alphazealot]

xS A M U R A Ix...

do you or did you have an account on Smashboards?

People won't understand unless you play them in person and explain things. In Smash I usually will play someone inexperianced, 4 stock them, and explain to them that there are at least 2 tier of players above me that can 4 stock me (and that I'm not at all upset that I get 4 stocked, Mew2King, the arguably best player in the world, will usually 4 stock me with less than 100%) and each other. IE, many of the top 5 melee players can 4 stock many of the people within the top 50. Many of the people within the top 50 can 4 stock people within the top 200 or so (where I fall in line roughly). Once they grasp this they begin to get an understanding for depth. Throw in some analogies to professional sports and your set.

For example: Mew2King can 4 stock Plank. Plank can 4 stock me. I can 4 stock 99.99% of everyone.

[SwmmrManShen]

people can like what they want, if they want to be assholes about it, let them be. no skin off our backs. (unless they're are going out of their way to make your life difficult, then getting in their face will probably get them off of your back)

p.s. not encouraging violence

[pherai]

I don't know how you guys can feel like you're getting anywhere by trashing the games other people play even if those people are hostile towards you. At the end of the shouting match, its still FG's that have the smaller playerbase, so from the outsiders perspective, we're wrong about the depth and strategy in FG's, not them. When you trivialize the skillset required for an FPS, or pvp in an MMO, you're being just as ignorant and intolerant as someone who trivializes the skillset required for FG's.

[ObsidianZ]

:rofl: at that guy who doesn't get a "rush" out of playing video games just because they aren't real...

I think he needs to change hobbies.

*ObZ

[Digitalbooty]

Just link them to this thread.

I agree with pherai for once...

You can't say that FG's have more or less depth than any other type of game. It is, however, ignorant to say that FG's have no depth at all. If they're not your type of game, they're not your type of game. Nothing wrong with that.

Also, lol at the guy trying say you're pathetic for getting a rush from a video game. These are obviously children (under the age of 21)?