Why doesn't CVS2 have lasting power?

[Ni8wing]

I'm from SoCal and I go to all the local arcades down here, Regency, AI, Super Arcade, Camelot, Family Fun (Which I call NASA because they do the craziest things there) and in all of those places they mainly play Marvel VS Capcom 2 and Third Strike. Both games have been out for almost ten years and people are still playing them competitively. Its funny how the younger generation is picking up third strike (This game came out when I was 19 and now I'm playing people who are 19).

As for Capcom VS SNK 2, no one plays it anymore. To me I thought, like Marvel and Third Strike, it would have lasting power. But I guess not. I mean its a very technical game and its fun. Capcom put so much thought into this game and now its being ignored. So why do you think it doesn't have that lasting power like the other two games?

On a side note why does no one play Alpha 3 anymore either? When that game first came out it was so popular.

And also why did no one catch on to Vampire Savior in the US? Is it like Virtua Fighter which is only popular in Japan?

For CVS 2 players out there, is p groove a dominate groove?

[Marty]

It does.

Plenty of people still play it.



edit: cvs2, not alpha 3

[NegroNinja]

Norcal's crazy about CvS2, hell it gets played more than anything else in SF.

[mcginnis]

Still my favorite fighter.:tup: Rather play this than 3rd strike since it has more characters and the speed is a bit higher. The only problem is that tournaments take too long.

[True_Tech]

its a long slow game

[mcginnis]

It's only slow since it's almost like watching 3 third strike matches back 2 back. Not really the games fault, though. A lot of people still play it, in 2 days they're going to have a regional tourney with it here in Houston.

[shoo]

I think alpha 3 died because there were no good console ports

[R | C]

As for the L.A region, these are some factors to why cvs2 is not really popular:

There aren't many places in socal (L.A area) with good functioning cvs2 cabs.

I believe Regency, Family Fun, AI, Super Arcade, Camelot all have poor cvs2 cab conditions,
not to mention that not all are on u.s cabs.

L.A traffic is a bitch, and gas prices are retarded.

FFA is the best spot for 3s in the U.S.

[orochizoolander]

its a long slow game

Not to mention very poke oriented and from what i've seen it's the CC's which turn alot of ppl off including me to some extent. But when i see expert level play like evoworlds07 the gamelooks hella fast and exciting, yeah it's kinda slow if ur not playing at the highest level but IMO it's a great game just as good as 3S or marvel though i do like those 2 games much better.

[Tigerboi]

Becuase it's a shitty game. *shot and body is burned*

[gridman]

Becuase it's a shitty game. *shot and body is burned*

Then shut up and go play 3rd strike.

edit: cvs2 is still awesome.

[Tigerboi]

Then shut up and go play 3rd strike.


Way ahead of you. you know, seeing as the game is shitty and all.

[Atb_555]

Its a good game but I get the impression people look at top tiers too much and get put off by it.

[Dreamkiller]

Because nobody likes the announcer dude who keeps talking and talking.

[Adam Warlock]

Not to mention very poke oriented and from what i've seen it's the CC's which turn alot of ppl off including me to some extent. But when i see expert level play like evoworlds07 the gamelooks hella fast and exciting, yeah it's kinda slow if ur not playing at the highest level but IMO it's a great game just as good as 3S or marvel though i do like those 2 games much better.

It turns you off because you can't do a fucking fireball lol

[kingfismit]

i still play this shit ever since it came out on xbox live....and it's definitely not as slow as 3s, at least my matches aren't...

[HAMMER FRENZY]

I think that CVS 2 needs to have more people trying to seriously exploit other Grooves. I want to see some really mean S- Groove abuse.

[Saotome Kaneda]

It turns you off because you can't do a fucking fireball lol
wasn't it he could do a FB but he couldn't srk? :confused: or did he get worse?

[Atb_555]

I think that CVS 2 needs to have more people trying to seriously exploit other Grooves. I want to see some really mean S- Groove abuse.

From the vids you see in Japan you get some varied teams just not S groove lol.

[Tigerboi]

Basically, people just get bored with games. Eventually, people will stop playing 3S, CvS2, MvC2 etc.

A3 died because people just moved on. It had it's time.

[FreddyL0c0]

thats odd, when I see the vids from acho of A3, Im always amazed at the quality of the A3 matches. A-Ism Guy is the coolest character to watch being played expertly.

Hell, look no further than ST to see how people don't have to necessarily move on.

Its the same with CVS2, as I get the impression that Japanese gamers play a bit more loosely, compared to the East Coast, which are turtle/run away oriented. The west coast is more rush down oriented.

[AlterGenesis]

That's what we like to call BIG DAMAGE.

[Cascade]

I'm from Sol Cal and I go to all the local arcades down here, Regency, Family Fun, AI, Super Arcade, Camelot and in all of those places they mainly play Marvel VS Capcom 2 and Third Strike. Both games have been out for almost ten years and people are still playing them competitively.

A city and state that I wish I was in.

As for Capcom VS SNK 2, no one plays it anymore. To me I thought like Marvel and Third Strike it would have lasting power. But I guess not. I mean its a very technical game and its fun. So why do you think it doesn't have that lasting power like the other two games?

I haven't been to the arcade in a long while here in Louisiana, but for certain cvs2 is played, but played much less compared to Marvel and Third Strike. I think it all comes down to what game they find more tolerable. I find cvs2 to be the most tolerable.

On a side note why does no one play Alpha 3 anymore either? When that game first came out it was so popular.

I think hardly no one plays that game anymore because of the combo glitches and v-ism. sfa3 isn't considered a sf game according to sf purist who favor sfa2 and hsf. Even 3s is considered to be much more credible.

I personally like sfa3. My favorite out of the alpha series.

For CVS 2 players out there, is p groove a dominate groove?

Not necessarily. You're still dealing with speculation.

[Tigerboi]

Hell, look no further than ST to see how people don't have to necessarily move on.


Yeah, but not that many people play ST in the US even. :( The places where people do play it are far in between. Hell in my ENTIRE REGION, if I want ST comp, I have to either wait on HD remix or go on kaillera.

st is still being played because we as a community accept it as the game (sf2) that STARTED us. If only 10 people start to show up at evo it should still be played every year. I mean, IT'S ST DAMNIT. We must never let it go!

[pherai]

It seems like the execution is tougher in cvs2, since there are so many links, and I'm sure that tends to scare people away. What's cool though is it seems like one of the few games out right now where you can legitimately compete with mid tiers. I'd really like to learn cvs2, but the amount of time it would take to teach myself, compared to the future of the game doesn't seem worth it. Anyone feel like being a cvs2 tutor?

[Khiempossible]

CVS2 is the greatest fighting game ever made. Nothing is as deep and complex and fun as good solid CVS2.

The issue is that it's a bitch to learn and get good. You can't figure out some basic shit and start applying it, with 6 grooves and lots of playable characters and so much of the game being knowledge based it's hard to get good fast.

[Gasp]

are you shitting me.

did you not see the evo west cvs2 footage?

shit was rowdy.


especially so cal cvs2, people are REALLY good down here.
cal poly and jamesgames have good cabs as far as i know.

[Shadowcuz]

NorCal is still strong in CvS2

[alchemist78]

It seems like the execution is tougher in cvs2, since there are so many links, and I'm sure that tends to scare people away. What's cool though is it seems like one of the few games out right now where you can legitimately compete with mid tiers. I'd really like to learn cvs2, but the amount of time it would take to teach myself, compared to the future of the game doesn't seem worth it. Anyone feel like being a cvs2 tutor?

try N groove akuma, it's nuts homie

[cain[e]]

It's fun to play, but prolly one of the most boring games to watch. IMHO.

[tataki]

SF4 killed it

[kinkey21]

leave your training wheels at the door

[HeartNana]

Cause of Ryu's ugly win-pose.

[Syxx573]

because u had to play CvS at leat 700 hours to unlock everything, and that was enough

[The Epidemic]

It turns you off because you can't do a fucking fireball lol

huh? what do u mean. everyone knows he mastered the wake-up fireball...

Cause of Ryu's ugly win-pose.

:rofl:

[Nokato]

Is it really that hard to combo in CVS2? I don't see how this game is that difficult to combo in...Comboing supers, or charge supers in ST, now that's difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

[Havoc]

Because CvS2 is hard to get good at, and most of the community is scrubby these days.

People complaining about links on a Street Fighter website, now? Wow....

[DevilJin 01]

CVS2 is a tough game to get a crowd riled up about. They have to understand the game or it just looks like 2 people being overly patient about what they want to do. It's funny cuz I've noticed sometimes that the crowd is afraid to shout in the game because they know how easy it is to mess up links in that game. I've even been told to be quiet during a CVS2 tourney match before. LOL. Just depends on where you play I guess. At Evo people will get loud just cuz of the environment and how tense it can be to wonder when someone will get their hit in that will cause real damage. Everyone's afraid to get hit by super cuz once you do it's usually half your life or more you're gonna lose. People don't want to be a whole character down while the other person still has 3 characters with more than half life on the 1st character.

Not to mention the fact that there really isn't as much incentive to throw the opponent as in a game like 3rd or ST so most throws are usually teched. Certain characters have solid throw games like Cammy and Vega yet...generally characters aren't going to be getting in throw range as much in a good fight as in say...3S. With 3S...with the way the game works pretty much everyone has incentive to throw like mad and even if your character sucks you can still easily throw your opponent 2 and 3 times in a row to break up blocking in the corner. Too many mind fucks u can do once you have the person in the corner in 3S.

Not every character has a universal way to overhead like in 3S so some games just consist of people trying their hardest to wear each other's guard meters down and then people are just looking to alpha counter that or whatever. Generally...at high level play you are going to see people running grooves C and A. Both of which are grooves that don't have small jumps so breaking up good blocking can be tough. CVS2 also doesn't start you out with meter at the start of round 1 and it takes a while to build up enough meter to do anything real serious so the first round in a match can be especially uneventful.

K and N groove as more rush oriented grooves can break things up a bit but generally will still lose to strong defensive play in C and A grooves. Everyone knows when you're going to use that meter in K groove and N groove stock gives away level 3's as well. Basically...there's a lot of ways to stop rushdown in CVS2 and the fact that u have to take out 3 characters sequentially to win the game makes the fights drag on a bit.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

I do not mind CVS2, but for some reason I find it frustrating. I am not as good as I should be, but then again I would rather play Marvel over any fighting game.

Well said DiabloJin.

[MrArcadePerfect]

this game is sick and its not that hard lol. practise makes perfect. been playing this game since it cam out till this day
the only thing i find hard about this game is using geese

[Nokato]

Well CVS2 has its challenges just like any other game. It just depends on what you find to be tolerable or what you enjoy out of the game despite is shortcomings (much like any other game). I still see people "waiting" in 3s also--defensive gameplay rears its head in any fighting game that has any sort of "balance" to it. If you have decent comp to play with consistently CVS2 can still be fun. Yeah, it has its issue, but what SF game doesn't (honestly)?

[COUM]

Everyone's afraid to get hit by super cuz once you do it's usually half your life or more you're gonna lose. People don't want to be a whole character down while the other person still has 3 characters with more than half life on the 1st character.

Personally this is something that turns me off about it. You can spend a whole round wearing someone down with good footsies, mind games etc. only for them to get one hit confirm/lucky guess into super and that's at least 50% of your bar gone, against K and A it can be as much as 90%. The game just seems to favor landing supers way too much.

[pherai]

Is it really that hard to combo in CVS2? I don't see how this game is that difficult to combo in...Comboing supers, or charge supers in ST, now that's difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

If you come from 3s it is :sad:

[Havoc]

Personally this is something that turns me off about it. You can spend a whole round wearing someone down with good footsies, mind games etc. only for them to get one hit confirm/lucky guess into super and that's at least 50% of your bar gone, against K and A it can be as much as 90%. The game just seems to favor landing supers way too much.

That's really not true.

Sure, K gets way too many supers, but players that just break out random supers are easy to beat.

You're not losing 90% on any combo in the game (at least not anything practical. I've got a stupid combo with A-Athena, but it involves landing a full screen jab fireball..).

I think CvS2 rewards superior play much more than other games that get played (3S...).

"Lucky" supers just don't happen much in CvS2. To get hit, you have to fuck up. Simple as that.

If you come from 3s it is :sad:

Fucking Third Strike generation....

Honestly, it annoys me that players that started on 3S (on Daigo's dick) are dominating the scene now. They can't even do links!

[tl613]

All Records Are Made To Be Broken!!!

I Know That You'll...be...baaack!!!

[Angelic Diablo]

I don't know how you can say this game doesn't have staying power. It was released in July 2001 (I believe) and still draws large numbers at major events. I always found it very rookie friendly with a variety of characters and styles to choose from. The more advanced mechanics can take time to learn but that can be said for any game. The only downside I've seen to this game over the years is that it's very popular in pockets in North America but the general populace that once played it regularly have migrated to 3S.

[DevilJin 01]

All Records Are Made To Be Broken!!!

I Know That You'll...be...baaack!!!

I love that you'll be back quote. Announcer says it so awkward. Like he's stumbling on what to say.

[Havoc]

CvS2 got 48 people at NCR this past weekend, more than any other game. :tup:

[Zal]

I feel the game is one of the purist of its kind. Well ballanced, i've seen so many different characters do crazy damage. You'll think one character is a low tier and then somebody will beat you with that character. Its unpredictable, very strategy oriented, and very spectacular looking. Dramatic/Finest KO's just light the screen up in drama. I've seen some super exciting matches!

i really hope its featured at evo this year, i will definitely go to play.

[DevilJin 01]

CvS2 got 48 people at NCR this past weekend, more than any other game. :tup:

Yeah...I posted in the topic just to give them props for holding the game down like that. Good to see people just buckling down and playing what they like to play.

Well CVS2 has its challenges just like any other game. It just depends on what you find to be tolerable or what you enjoy out of the game despite is shortcomings (much like any other game). I still see people "waiting" in 3s also--defensive gameplay rears its head in any fighting game that has any sort of "balance" to it. If you have decent comp to play with consistently CVS2 can still be fun. Yeah, it has its issue, but what SF game doesn't (honestly)?

Yeah...there definitely is waiting in 3S but it's kinda negated by the fact that the matches just don't last as long. I've only watched a few 3S fights that have lasted longer than 4 minutes. An average 3rd Strike match is like a bit more than a minute long. Like a good paced fight where both players are aggressive. Even Chun vs. Chun fights...it's rare that they last longer than 3 minutes. A regularly paced CVS2 match easily goes on 4+ minutes and a well played game between both players easily goes to 5 or 6 plus minutes. CVS2 is technically best 3 out of 5 rounds so that doesn't help either. If both players have 3 characters that can play rather well defensively...it's tough to watch unless you really like the game. Any game is tough to watch if you don't like it but IMO CVS2 is especially tough to watch if it's just not your game. Hell...it's tough to watch if you do like it. I'd rather be playing the game. The long and multiple loading times don't help any either.

[laugh]

cvs2 is like A2 grand finals matches from B3 but with more fire. Some of srk would cut themselves if they had to watch guile vs guile from SF2 series.

It's harder to combo in cvs2 than 3s or marvel, but it's not hard by any means unless you never practice. You just don't get an hour and a half to combo the super from low forward.

[margalis]

"Boring to watch" is the best explanation.

JChensor had some good stuff on his blog about this. (jchensor.blogspot.com, the first post right now)

Watching Buktooth play Hibiki/Morrigan/Iori is fun, as is watching Combofiend (?) play Rolento etc, but watching everyone else play Blanka, Sagat, Cammy, Vega etc gets real old real fast.

Not only because characters like Morrigan and Rolento are less used and therefore more novel but also because their game is much more active overall. If you watch Buk play he is always doing *something* and there is a lot of variety in his game.

[ilazul]

I live in VA, capcom vs snk 2 seems to get the most play wherever I can find it. The problem is, not many places have it. I think alpha 3 died because CvS2 is seen as an upgraded version of alpha. It contains a lot of similar elements and the three -ISM's.

Anywho, among my group we play all five pretty evenly (ST, A3, CvS2, MvC2, 3s). But most people I meet tend to favor MvC2 the most, 3s second, and CvS2 third. I really enjoy CvS 2 (hell so much I'm building a Naomi cab for it), but it does seem it's starting to fade.

[tl613]

I don't know how people can say it's boring because you always see the same characters when 3S is always full of Yun, Chun, Ken, and MvC2 is always Mag, Storm, Sent.

[epsilon_]

very easy to why it doesn't have a large influx of new players.

the game is difficult to get good at, and rewards things that scrubs don't like to do or aren't good at or doing like doing.

read:patience, footsies, difficult execution, defense, anti airs.

you don't get very much instant gratification with cvs2 at all.

also its a pretty long game, and usually the first 2 characters don't matter as much (but people are at least using different characters for their first 2 because of the team format).


another reason why cvs2 isn't as appealing to new players is that it is much easier to break an opponents defense in other games, (this has a lot to do with stronger anti airs in general for multiple characters, and throws not being as powerful offensively (but still very useful because of rc))

ALSO.

the reason cvs2 has a large variety of characters is because its a team game, and the ratio system.

look at r2's. sagat...blanka...bison sometimes?

[DevilJin 01]

I don't know how people can say it's boring because you always see the same characters when 3S is always full of Yun, Chun, Ken, and MvC2 is always Mag, Storm, Sent.

Yeah...CVS2 does have that variety of characters but gets counterracted by the fact that the game is generally slower paced than other fighters and top level play consists of R2 Blanka or Sagat coming and doing their top tierness that everyone always expects. Neither character is particularly rushdown oriented and C and A grooves don't really ever give them the need to be. Both characters are a nightmare when they turtle up good. Neither of those characters have anything particularly flashy either. Blanka has cool RC shit that's fun to use but if you're just watching the fight it just looks like all of his specials gain insane priority. Sagat...stupid good pokes and he doesn't even need RC much. R2 A Bison can be fun to watch just cuz you know he's gonna rape the life bar once he gets in but...it's not like 3S where he can literally just push buttons to scare people into getting hit so that doesn't even happen as often. You really have to get set up right to get hurt by A Bison whereas Genei Jin is pretty free and happens more often.

People want action when they're forced to watch games and generally CVS2 is a game where the action builds up more than it actually happens. Chun is the random factor of 3S that tends to slow the game down a good bit but take Chun out of the picture and majority of the cast plays rather offensively. There's no reason to wait Yun out when he doesn't have meter cuz once he does it's rape time and Ken's rush is too good. Mak, Urien, Yang and Duds are all strongest when played offensively and a good bit of the cast even under them are rather offensive.

Really...it all comes down to what your definition of fun is. The more you understand the game of CVS2...the more fun it is to watch (as well as play). If you don't play it much or have barely watched footage of it...it's not going to be interesting. 3S has its dull moments but generally things happen more often and quicker than in CVS2. 3S matches go by pretty quick majority of the time and things can always go back and forth due to the randomness of it. Marvel...5 year old kids can have fun watching Marvel. It's just nuts.

[DS]

cal poly and jamesgames have good cabs as far as i know.

Yeah, I actually enjoyed the CvS2 cab at JamesGames when I was there this past August. Everything came out smooth as butter.

But yeah, you just have to have hella patience to play this game. You can rush, but you can also get countered for trying to rush. It's a really patient game. I don't mind the pokes or anything, a lot of games out there are poke oriented. You're basically fishing for a hit. And yes, execution does matter a lot in this game.

The game does seem to be getting a lot more play in Japan(from what I've heard) due to people playing K-groove now. A-groove is on a slow decline(maybe faster than before?), so people are discovering more anti-A strats. And as mentioned before: time. It's a long ass game. One game is like, 7-9 minutes, tops.

I wish people would play more A3. But at this point, it's a casual game. Crouch Cancel infinites were one of the things that drew people away. =/

[Havoc]

CvS2 matches go from 2.5 -> 5 minutes tops.

Most matches are around the 3:30 mark.

Only Justin v. Steve matches go any longer than 5 minutes, but who actually watches those?

[DS]

Only Justin v. Steve matches go any longer than 5 minutes, but who actually watches those?

HAHA, yeah. Well, I was more or less referring to tourney sets. 2/3 does stretch past the 5 minute mark. SOMETIMES. Still a fun game to watch.

I wanna play again. :sad:

[orochizoolander]

"Boring to watch" is the best explanation.

JChensor had some good stuff on his blog about this. (jchensor.blogspot.com, the first post right now)

Watching Buktooth play Hibiki/Morrigan/Iori is fun, as is watching Combofiend (?) play Rolento etc, but watching everyone else play Blanka, Sagat, Cammy, Vega etc gets real old real fast.

Not only because characters like Morrigan and Rolento are less used and therefore more novel but also because their game is much more active overall. If you watch Buk play he is always doing *something* and there is a lot of variety in his game.



I dunno bout that i was at evoworlds this year and cvs2 was the most exciting game to watch especially wong vs ortiz.

[DevilJin 01]

CvS2 matches go from 2.5 -> 5 minutes tops.

Most matches are around the 3:30 mark.

Only Justin v. Steve matches go any longer than 5 minutes, but who actually watches those?

Hmmm...to me they usually feel more like 4 to 5 minutes. I guess with the editing in videos it can feel that long. A good bit of the CVS2 matches I've watched...I'll look at the end of the video and see that I was watching one fight vid for 4+ minutes.

Justin vs. Steve stops time. You can't calculate a time frame for their matches.

[The Illuminati]

Because nigga's can't stop ridin' dumb fighters, and they don't like smart games in the Capcom community. Which explains why CVS2 and Alpha 3 are underrated. Outside ST, the top capcom games for big tourneys are either dumb or mediocore. . .get that marvel shit outta here.

[Gasp]

you know what i just remembered that bugged the shit out of me.
whoever did the cvs2 evo2k7 play by play sucked. but i can't blame him.
i mean its hard to pinpoint roll cancelled moves and the matches sounded good at first but slowly but surely every move done was RC'd according to the announcer eventually i was like
"alright motherfucker i know this is finals and shit but there is NO WAY combofiend can rollcancel ken's fireball in k-groove!:annoy:"

[DevilJin 01]

you know what i just remembered that bugged the shit out of me.
whoever did the cvs2 evo2k7 play by play sucked. but i can't blame him.
i mean its hard to pinpoint roll cancelled moves and the matches sounded good at first but slowly but surely every move done was RC'd according to the announcer eventually i was like
"alright motherfucker i know this is finals and shit but there is NO WAY combofiend can rollcancel ken's fireball in k-groove!:annoy:"

JUSTIN WONG! JUSTIN......

WONG!

[KING]

...because it sucks.


end thread.

[orochizoolander]

^^:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I just wokeup, went downstairs to see cvs2 finals n hear that shit he was so loud.

[Hatred Edge]

I'm torn between picking the best grooves for my people: Kyo/Akuma/Sagat. And there isn't Robert/K'/THE REAL KOF Kyo/Andy/Genjuro and various other SNK characters and no Guy/Adon/Fei-Long from SFA and no Ibuki/Yang/Makoto from 3S. That's why the game died for me. 6 damn grooves to pick from and almost always conflicts with some character on your team. Hence why I play A3 and KOF XI. A3 has the cast of SF that I like and KOF has the team battle that I like.

CVS2 is good in it's own right. I still have my copy.

And Sakura's bullshit custom combo: Shoushoushoushoushou[guard break]shoushoushoushoushou. Pure bullshit.

[CMX]

unfortunetly I got a lot of neg rep for stating my opinon, deleted post.

CvS2 is the most balanced game currently out there that I know that doesn't get any love anymore by the host's of EVO I guess since its a high chance of not being there next year.

[Ouroborus]

cvs2 gets tons of play here in norcal.

[goodm0urning]

I'm from SoCal and I go to all the local arcades down here, Regency, AI, Super Arcade, Camelot, Family Fun (Which I call NASA because they do the craziest things there) and in all of those places they mainly play Marvel VS Capcom 2 and Third Strike. Both games have been out for almost ten years and people are still playing them competitively. Its funny how the younger generation is picking up third strike (This game came out when I was 19 and now I'm playing people who are 19).

As for Capcom VS SNK 2, no one plays it anymore. To me I thought, like Marvel and Third Strike, it would have lasting power. But I guess not. I mean its a very technical game and its fun. Capcom put so much thought into this game and now its being ignored. So why do you think it doesn't have that lasting power like the other two games?Who knows? There is a lot of factors that determine which games are popular in which regions. The local arcade here has Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, Tekken 5: DR, Tekken Tag, VF4, CVS1, CVS2, and an assortment of Soul Caliburs. You see a lot of scrubs on the Soul Caliburs, and other than that, T5 and CvS2 are the only games that really get played. It's weird.

Since I have no interest in Tekken 5, CvS2 is my main game because that's where I have to go to get competition. I learned to love it, and I don't mind at all. It's a fun game with a great assortment of characters. I competed in CvS2 at Michigan's Mayn Event tourney earlier this year, and I'll probably do it again next year.

For CVS 2 players out there, is p groove a dominate groove?Not really. A-groove is the most abusive groove. S-groove is the only groove that outright sucks. P can be a strong groove if you really learn it, but you're in for an uphill fight. Most players either opt for the better-rounded grooves (C, K, N) or the most abusive groove (A, as mentioned).

[DevilJin 01]

P is solid if you have the right characters (R2 Cammy is ridic) but is literally countered by A groove and K groove isn't much easier to fight against. P groove's guard meter goes down faster than other grooves and you have no defensive maneuvers while you are in block stun so GGPO when A groove gets activated or you get K rushed to death. The fact that you only have one long meter doesn't help.

[Leebee Link]

Because it's boring as hell.

[Marty]

The only thing I don't like about CVS2 is A Groove.

[Preppy]

I've been thinking a lot about this since CvS2 does seem to be about to drop off the major radar screen, and I've been playing other non-Marvel games lately...

* matches take too long. any fighting game longer than 2-3 minutes tends to drag if you have to keep playing / watching it / waiting for it over time. for example, i really like VF5, but it seems like half my time is spent in load screens/taunts/replays - those matches should be longer, CvS2 should be shorter
* way too complicated for noobs. roll cancel, parry, k groove make playing against experts more painful than in most other games.
* too much distance, not enough rush-down. not that that cross-screen footsy dance isn't fun, but it's not going to be fun to watch for most for too long. i think contact-based fighters have a playability edge
* not enough fun stuff. dumb stuff like ring outs or juggles after the match or taunts that give you a power-up? those are cool.

Don't get me wrong, I like CVS2, I just think the above factors are to me what limits it as far as popularity.

[Chachi]

1) no loli appeal

2) tough learning curve for newcomers

3) online netcode sucks

4) there hasn't been a whole lot of recent discoveries to help keep it fresh.

5) so many other games to try out, cvs2 kinda gets put to the backburner.

[Nokato]

I don't get why people whine so much about A-Groove....there is ALWAYS going to be a strat or a combo or any implement that is superior to others. Just man up and don't get hit by them. I mean, by that same logic would you all hate MVC2 because of ROM? Yes, eventually people mess up and get hit by large damage combos...its a factor in the game. When someone combos a super and it does high-damage its not really much of a difference. Yeah, certain A-groove combos are stronger...just deal with it.

I just think effort scares people.

[Ouroborus]

i think the biggest reason why its a turn off because the easiest and most braindead characters to use, K-CBS gets raped by A groove. i remember back then when the game first came out, everyone thought it was the easiest game to play (one button characters, etc). then roll cancelling has been discovered and the rest is history.

1) no loli appeal



wtf?

[Shadowcuz]

Daigo didnt parry it

[EveryFlowerFlow]

I don't get why people whine so much about A-Groove....


qtf. imo C-groove is what people should really be whining about.

[Marty]

I don't get why people whine so much about A-Groove....there is ALWAYS going to be a strat or a combo or any implement that is superior to others. Just man up and don't get hit by them. I mean, by that same logic would you all hate MVC2 because of ROM? Yes, eventually people mess up and get hit by large damage combos...its a factor in the game. When someone combos a super and it does high-damage its not really much of a difference. Yeah, certain A-groove combos are stronger...just deal with it.

It's not that it's strong (although that certainly augments it), it's that I just don't like the style of play it brings about.

By the same token, I don't like a SAIII crazy Yun. But I'm not going to stop playing the game because of it. I mean, you may notice that I put: "The only thing I don't like ..."

[Dreamkiller]

Random neg. rep
lol.
Btw, I wouldnt have a team in my sig, if i didnt like the game.

[jae hoon]

CvS2 is the truth haters

Even if you take A Groove out people would bitch about how cheap K CBS is or any other random top tier team.

The biggest problem is also one of its strength, it just takes longer then most other FG to play. KOF players generally dont like it because its not all about random rushdown, SF player dont tend to like it because it just takes to long with the 3 on 3 combat.

It isnt like its done that bad though, there isnt exactly a laundry list of FG that have lasted as long as CvS2 has so far.

[Havoc]

Yeah for real. How can you say a game in it's seventh year of active competition hasn't shown staying power?

[COUM]

KOF players generally dont like it because its not all about random rushdown

Most KOFs pre-XI aren't either. Maybe the players themselves are all about rushdown but the games aren't. It's true that you can definitely rush down a lot more in KOF than in CvS2 though...

[jae hoon]

Most KOFs pre-XI aren't either. Maybe the players themselves are all about rushdown but the games aren't. It's true that you can definitely rush down a lot more in KOF than in CvS2 though...

For the most part yeah that are, that is the appeal to KOF in the first place. KOF places a heavy emphasis on the offensive side of the fg, that is why people like it. It if was more defensive it would generally not be KOF. Even more of the KOF Grapple characters like Clark have alot of rushdown options that people use. The game is meant to be offensive and is generally played that way.

[pherai]

Fucking Third Strike generation....

Honestly, it annoys me that players that started on 3S (on Daigo's dick) are dominating the scene now. They can't even do links!

Well, teach people hehe. I'd love to get in on cvs2. I find the matches a lot more interesting to watch than 3s, just takes more time to learn than 3s does.

[SNAAAAKE]

simple. scrubs give up and dont bother learning because its KINDA hard to get into. kinda but not hard at all if you stop bitching about shit and actually gave it a try and mess with stuff in training mode. I just think effort scares people.

nobody is good at cvs2 overnight..it takes hard work and its the survival of the fittest..only for the big dogs. I really like cvs2 because its obviously the most balanced game out now ! :wgrin:



Honestly, it annoys me that players that started on 3S (on Daigo's dick) are dominating the scene now. They can't even do links!

:rofl: :rofl:

sig material right there lol

[ilazul]

Random neg. rep
lol.
Btw, I wouldnt have a team in my sig, if i didnt like the game.

yeah I got hit by that too, lol.
I still love the game. I'm building a cab for it (have the insides).

I need to make an avatar.

[Gaijinblaze]

The very same people who raved about how fighting games aren't about technical skill. :rolleyes:

Answer: Because it's terrible.

[Azrael]

CvS2 has already fallen off the radar in Japan, IMHO. Sure, its still at tourneys and what not, but aside from playing it just to play a competitive fighter, interest has tanked. I could walk into any random arcade, and the CvS2 machine would be collecting dust. At a-cho, they reduced their CvS2 machines (non tourney times) from 3 to 1, and the 1 machine gets pretty lonely. More people play A3. I see more people screwing around with the MvC2 machine than with CvS2 (along with the Japanese inability to commit to the top-tier, and use teams like Magneto, Guile, and Marrow).

I'm someone who has given up CvS2. I just didn't like it. I can't blame one particular aspect in particular, I think its just a combination of things that made the game not fun for me. About halfway through my CvS2 "career" I switched to A-Groove to try and keep my interest up, but even that eventually didn't work. Especially playing at a-cho - I got to a point where I realized that if I wanted to be more than a training dummy for those guys, I was going to have to put in more work at the game - and I just didn't like the game enough to want to do that.

Don't call me lazy. I was a decent American A3 player, went to Japan and a-cho, got intercoursed without consent. I took the time to re-learn the things I thought I knew, and now I can hang at a-cho. The difference from CvS2 is that I like A3, so putting in the work didn't bother me.

[EveryFlowerFlow]

intercoursed without consent.

I see that phrase is on the rise :lol:

[Autocrat1]

Because it only has CVS2 inches and homie don't play dat.

/Eagle


/no homo

[CMX]

Random neg. rep
lol.
Btw, I wouldnt have a team in my sig, if i didnt like the game.

random eh? that sucks :wasted:

its such a great game but the patience it takes to learn the game is annoyingly long, i understand when people can learn 2 games by the time they learn CvS2. I love the game and hate to see it gone from tournaments but I'm not gunna keep hoping its going to stay around, so learning other fighters is has become fulltime for me.

--CMX

[Oni Warrior]

I don't have a lot to contribute to this thread, but I find it depressing that people don't think CvS2 has 'lasting power.' It's probably the most entertaining fighting game me and my circle of friends have played. Granted, we don't play competitively, nor do we ever really play sober, but CvS2 has just been plain fun for us in the past 6-7 years. I mean, we've all played MvC2, every Street Fighter you can imagine, some Guilty Gears, some KoFs, and tons of 3D fighters as well -- none match CvS2's fun factor, except maybe Street Fighter 3, or Samurai Shodown 2...

[Leebee Link]

Who the hell negged me for saying that I suck at the game?

:confused: :lol:


hahahaha i'm sorry that's just fucking hilarious



in other news, CvS2 is not fun to play, boring to watch and ugly.

[RushedDown]

its such a great game

lies

[Master Chibi]

I love the game. I get alot more out of one game of CvS2 then I've ever really gotten out of 3S, and there's just soooooooooooooooooo many more characters I can fuck with in CvS2. I mean seriously, how the FUCK does someone like Iyo own up with Dhalsim, Maki, Rolento? Shit is inspiring.

My only gripe with the game is that some people (whoever you are) just refuse to go outside the norm. I mean I can't complain really, but at NEC my first match was against K-CBS, and my second was against A-Are. I mean even I find K-CBS fun, but dang the game allows you to go beyond that, people should experiment more. I get weird looks for rocking K-Rog, or Athena, or fucking Joe, but SHIT if it isn't fun as hell to play with them.

I'm jealous of WC CvS2, game still seems plenty alive, and I think Cali-CvS2 was always more hype then EC CvS2 ever was.

:p

[Helter Skelter]

I think it's pretty good, but it looks like Mugen. I really disliked the inconsistent sprite styles and stuff.

Alot of guys in the U.K like it.

[Nokato]

In other words, because it didn't look like Third Strike...

[The Mullah]

:confused: :lol:


hahahaha i'm sorry that's just fucking hilarious



in other news, CvS2 is not fun to play, boring to watch and ugly.

we heard you the first time, that sort of input isn't useful, or appreciated, quit trolling the thread.

I love cvs2, i havent played it in years though. I think it died off because like snake said, it takes a lot of work to get around the numerous hurdles to learning this game.

beginners will get roll thrown, trampled by top tiers pokes. Then you have roll cancel to contend with and the general level of execution required for A groove is high.

[DevilJin 01]

In other words, because it didn't look like Third Strike...

Pretty much. :lol:

To me...only so much of a fighting game can be about the technical aspects of the game. Like... American football is really technical and all but that shit isn't so popular outside of the US and I've talked to plenty of people who think football is boring as hell to watch. Football has its moments but it has a lot of downtime where people are simply prepping for action instead of actually doing anything physical. If you're actually playing in the game or understand the technicality behind it...it's interesting. If you're not or just don't like the game of football...it's not going to be fun. That's why people do stuff to keep it interesting like down plenty of beers and nachos, place bets on games, play fantasy leagues, play Dat Madden while the game is on even etc. There's other factors like the general homeliness the game has here and how everyone can support a team that represents where they live. Basically...the game has to inspire you or mean something to you for it to click for you. Football is definitely a game that's 5 times more fun to watch when you see the technicality behind it.

Just like any fighting game...before you see the technicality you see the game and the game has to appeal to you first. Unless you just like everything about the game (my boy Sagat's in it!) CVS2 is one of those games that it's harder to like just by looking at it. You have to actually play and understand why things work in the game to really like it. I mean...the SF characters alone don't instantly make people click with the game. They help and people recognize them but it's easy to tell that the game is just different from old school SF. It's not like the SNK characters are much better in that respect. KOF fans are super picky and everyone else has no idea what KOF is (CVS2 is probably the reason some gamers were even ever exposed to KOF). U have to have a clear dedication to CVS2 as a game to get the most out of it especially now that everybody knows what works in the game. You can't scub round with a team of N Kyo, Ryo and Terry cuz they're ur SNK boys and expect to do well in tourneys.

[Khiempossible]

hahaha. funny how you bring up american football when real football (aka soccer) is the biggest sport everywhere ELSE in the world yet somehow most people on the american continent don't know shit about it.

I'd argue how 3s is to cvs2 as american football is to soccer. But I don't really feel like it.

[caliagent#3]

CvS2 is too hard if you don't play often.
CvS2 didn't have a daigo moment
CvS2 is pretty much stagnant all over the country except for the WC (<3 WC cvs)

[Eduardo24]

hahaha. funny how you bring up american football when real football (aka soccer) is the biggest sport everywhere ELSE in the world yet somehow most people on the USA don't know shit about it.

I'd argue how 3s is to cvs2 as american football is to soccer. But I don't really feel like it.

Fixed.

:sweat:

[CMX]

lies

go back to ST hater

if people are stick of seeing C/A/K-Are in tournaments it can be arranged. where you have 2 tournaments of CvS2 the team to win in the 1st tourney, none of the char's can be used in the 2nd tourney, or something along those lines, no groove restriction of course. it could bring out characters usually not seen in tourney's as often to show up. but thats just an opinion.

[Embryo]

Well in my case, I was actually a pretty big fan of CVS2 untill I played 3s for the first time. Although CVS2 is still a quiality game, I started to dslike how poke oriented it was and how defensive the gameplay would become at times. From a visual standpoint, I wasnt really impressed with the animation and I felt that the alpha characters disrupted the graphical consistency of the game. The game is still good though, and it can be quite exciting to watch at high level.

[Havoc]

CvS2 has character variety.

Look at Iyo, AO, Kisshi, Buk, Combo (especially his old A-Groove team), Gunter (A-Gief!), Kurosu, Desora, etc.... the list can really go on and on.

Plenty of characters are usable in CvS2. Players are just lazy, and if they don't have somebody in their immediate circle that they can jack for tactics, they can't be bothered.

I really just think CvS2's relative lack of popularity (again... that's suspect too. NCR results.... CvS2 is currently only behind 3S and ST for FRXI sign-ups, meaning it's ahead of Marvel, MB, AH, GGAC, etc) just really speaks on the community as a whole.

When link combos are considered to be a technical burden in the SF community, there's a problem.

[Sabin]

cvs2 has lasting power, look how long the game has stayed alive. ppl arent questioning the staying power of cvs2 until recently, which is a testament to the games longetivity.

as to why its dying? well its boring for 1, and the scrubs cant hang anymore like they used to. average scrub gets turned off by rc elec, a groove madness i guess so the game might seem stale to them. its gotten boring to me as of late which is why i switched main games - since i want to play something fresh.

to reinforce azrael's statement, cvs2 is on the downturn in japan too. when i was in tokyo this summer, its a lot harder to find casuals than it used to be. Sure the top players are still playing, and the main supporters are still there (like Gunter for instance, I played him @ Mikado in the fall before I went back) but a lot of the casual players (in Japan) moved onto other games like melty, ggxx, and arcana, and tekken. There are still tourneys for it, but it's mostly the diehard players that are still playing. Threes (just like here) refuses to die out though, lol, same for ST for kinda obvious reasons that were listed earlier in the thread.

[epsilon_]

CvS2 has character variety.

Look at Iyo, AO, Kisshi, Buk, Combo (especially his old A-Groove team), Gunter (A-Gief!), Kurosu, Desora, etc.... the list can really go on and on.

Plenty of characters are usable in CvS2. Players are just lazy, and if they don't have somebody in their immediate circle that they can jack for tactics, they can't be bothered.

I really just think CvS2's relative lack of popularity (again... that's suspect too. NCR results.... CvS2 is currently only behind 3S and ST for FRXI sign-ups, meaning it's ahead of Marvel, MB, AH, GGAC, etc) just really speaks on the community as a whole.

When link combos are considered to be a technical burden in the SF community, there's a problem.

I already stated before that the character variety is only due to the team system in cvs2. If you want to say people who use all mid tier teams, it's very comparable to how many top Japanese players use mid and low tiers in 3s. Look at who else is on the team in the vast majority of cvs2 teams. C xxx, xxx/blanka, sagat. K xxx/Cammy/Sagat, A xxx/Blanka/Bison. Of course people are going to be more willing to use random characters in a game like cvs2, the team system is conducive to it.

[Serpent]

RC made it not fun. You can't really use N-groove rushdown (I think even Buk and Valle gave up).

[ramza]

RC made it not fun. You can't really use N-groove rushdown (I think even Buk and Valle gave up).

buk stopped rushing with n groove? are you living under a rock?

[Havoc]

RC made it not fun. You can't really use N-groove rushdown (I think even Buk and Valle gave up).

Yeah.... entirely untrue.

Buk still rushes in.

RC doesn't just automatically stop rushing. Mindless RC loses for free to anybody with a brain.

N-Groove is still very viable. People just stopped using it because initially it lost for free to stuff like RC Honda. Well, once people figured out how to fight RC, N-Groove became viable again, in theory... people just didn't go back to it.

People are starting now (I am...).

Still, there's Buk, Togawa, Nuki, etc. that still use N and rush.

[Nick T.]

I mean even I find K-CBS fun, but dang the game allows you to go beyond that, people should experiment more. I get weird looks for rocking K-Rog, or Athena, or fucking Joe, but SHIT if it isn't fun as hell to play with them.

:p Yeah K rog is actually legit fun. I like him


But CvS2 got boring for me when it seemed like people started to fall off and general interest fell. Also nobody was really innovating stuff.
That and, on a general viewer level, its boring. I felt like I was watching more cvs2 than actually playing it.

Its not a bad game its just eh these days unless i start playing around with some random K or N team.

[Krimzon]

Of course people are going to be more willing to use random characters in a game like cvs2, the team system is conducive to it.

in conclusion, there is more character variety.:wasted:. I honestly believe Cvs2 not having staying power has nothing to do with tiers and characters, if that's what staying power is based on, MvC2 and 3S would've been gone a long time ago. CvS2 probably has the most variety out of all 3. CvS2 needs a Daigo moment

[ramza]

in conclusion:

its a long, boring game

[epsilon_]

in conclusion, there is more character variety.:wasted:. I honestly believe Cvs2 not having staying power has nothing to do with tiers and characters, if that's what staying power is based on, MvC2 and 3S would've been gone a long time ago. CvS2 probably has the most variety out of all 3. CvS2 needs a Daigo moment

The whole character variety thing is an illusion, yes, play one throwaway character to build meter for your top tiers when they come in and actually win the game for you. Most cvs2 matches come down to r2 vs r2, and most cvs2 players r2's are one of three characters.

[Krimzon]

The whole character variety thing is an illusion, yes, play one throwaway character to build meter for your top tiers when they come in and actually win the game for you. Most cvs2 matches come down to r2 vs r2, and most cvs2 players r2's are one of three characters.

The fact that everyone can afford 1 non top tier 'throwaway' character in a team of 3 characters shows that it's not as heavily tier based as other games

[ramza]

The fact that everyone can afford 1 non top tier 'throwaway' character in a team of 3 characters shows that it's not as heavily tier based as other games

....

[Serpent]

What did buk use at Evo?

[epsilon_]

Same team he always uses.

N Iori/Morrigan or Chun-Li/Hibiki2

with some orders switched up, pretty much always those 4 characters though.

[Krimzon]

....

the characters are not throwaway characters per se. There are many viable batteries in CvS2. Guile, Vega Honda
etc. There's are many things to consider for each character in terms of placement like how well they perform without meter and how they will fare against other characters that the opponent will likely be placed to start. Sagat, Blanka and Bison are almost always last on their team because they do great damage and stand great damage. Because you can't choose 3 blankas in 1 team, you have to make sure, the team is well balanced. This makes the game fun (for me..:confused:)

as for the game being boring, i suppose people who aren't familiar with the game will find it to be boring because it is heavily footsie based and meter dictates the flow.

[Havoc]

It's a gross oversimplification (and misunderstanding) to say that only the third character counts in CvS2.

To say that is to say that Vega doesn't matter as a character.... or Sakura. Obviously, this is completely false.

A lot of players today pay very little attention to the overall progress of a match and its components, and only look at the end point (another side effect of 3S-itis, IMO... since 3S has very little flow from point to point compared to other SF's), so to them, CvS looks unnecessarily long.

I can understand that; I disagree and am disappointed that people can't appreciate what CvS brings, but I understand it.

[epsilon_]

I didn't say that only the third character matters, but generally, the user and anchor are much more important to the final outcome of the match than the battery. Also, Vega and Sakura are top tier characters too(An argument could be made that Vega is only high mid, but due to his success in tournaments all over the world, I think it's safe to say he's top too), so again the whole "character variety" thing is basically an illusion.

As far as understanding of CvS2, I can only speak for myself, but I definitely do have an understanding game.

To Krimson, Guile Vega and Honda are all top characters! CvS2 is no more "balanced" than any other currently played capcom game. There is still a top tier (and groove) that dominates the game on the highest level. There are over 40 characters in cvs2, and the top tier is larger, meaning there are more(around 8/40+) characters that dominate the cast as a whole, it doesn't mean the lesser characters stand any more of a chance.

[Shadowcuz]

Gunter (A-Gief!)

lol gotta love Gunter and his ghetto CCs

[ramza]

It's a gross oversimplification (and misunderstanding) to say that only the third character counts in CvS2.

To say that is to say that Vega doesn't matter as a character.... or Sakura. Obviously, this is completely false.

A lot of players today pay very little attention to the overall progress of a match and its components, and only look at the end point (another side effect of 3S-itis, IMO... since 3S has very little flow from point to point compared to other SF's), so to them, CvS looks unnecessarily long.

I can understand that; I disagree and am disappointed that people can't appreciate what CvS brings, but I understand it.

Yes, some batteries are a bitch to kill if you don't off them first round. To cover generalizations against your game with generalizations of other ones is getting old.

I like the game, you gotta take it for what it is

[AneurysmX]

biased opinions rule

[Havoc]

I'm not gonna get into a whole thing about 3S, but I don't think it's an incorrect assesment to say that each critical point in 3S has less of a direct effect on the rest of the match, as opposed to Marvel, ST, or CvS2.

As for variety being an "illusion", you can say that CvS's end game is monotonous from a character variety standpoint, but the end-game isn't the entire game.

Also, I made the point that Vega/Sak clearly matter to counter the argument that first characters don't matter. I know they're top tier, and that status alone destroys the argument that first characters don't matter. It then extends out to anyone that would go first, from Vega to Iori to Dhalsim to Kyo to Gief. It all matters in team structure

Sure, it may end with Sagat/Bison/Blanka/Cammy, but to dismiss the build-up is missing the point. That's like saying pawns don't matter in chess.

[Havoc]

biased opinions rule

Bias is fine as long as it's based on appropriate experience. Everyone's opinion on everything is biased...

[goodm0urning]

Bias is fine as long as it's based on appropriate experience. Everyone's opinion on everything is biased...Heh, I was just going to say, aren't opinions biased by definition?

[Hawk]

wasn't it he could do a FB but he couldn't srk? :confused: or did he get worse?

"Do a RUNNING FIREBALL, dude."

I'll try to dig up the video. :rofl:

EDIT: Oh, I'm six pages late.

[AneurysmX]

A lot of players today pay very little attention to the overall progress of a match and its components, and only look at the end point

I can understand that; I disagree and am disappointed that people can't appreciate what CvS brings, but I understand it.

See I have to disagree with u there, I cant speak for others but I pay a lot of attention to the progress of the match.

To me the game flows a lot better than CvS2 does. IMO.

I can say I understand 3s and you guys dont this and that, but its just a matter of opinions now isnt it....

[epsilon_]

Sure, it may end with Sagat/Bison/Blanka/Cammy, but to dismiss the build-up is missing the point. That's like saying pawns don't matter in chess.

What point? Isn't the point of all competitive games to ultimately...win the game? Also stop comparing any CvS2 to chess please lol.

[Havoc]

Obviously, I'm not saying CvS2 = chess, just making an analogy with the relative importance of characters to that of pieces.

EDIT- If the chess analogy is no good, then think of lead-off hitters in baseball. Yeah, they don't usually hit home runs (sometimes they do... OCV!), but their walks and base hits put the team in position to score. Sure, Bonds hits the home run that scores the runs, but the lead batters are important too.

[laugh]

It's funny how some of you guys are saying that only the last anchor character matters in cvs2, because how well you do in one round carries directly over to the next while most of the other games don't. It doesn't matter whether you win round1 with a pixel of life or a full bar of life on the next round you'll get everything back, but not in cvs2. In other words, each round & character in cvs2 means more than most other major fighting game being played right now.

I also think that cvs2 has the most traditional style of gameplay found in sf2 and alpha series compared to marvel or 3s as well as being the most balanced and solid of the 3. I say that because it's the game where the final outcome is least affected by random lucky shit, baits or setups.

I don't care to go to SBO any more when I'm only 2 hours away by flight (which is also basically free of cost) primarily because they don't have cvs2 (and other games I care about to a much lesser extent), but I fly to Vegas every year because they have cvs2 (and to meet friends also, but I can do that without going to evo). I think cvs2's had more than enough lasting power for me.

[inkblot]

CvS2 is a horrible game when played to win. It's maybe the most defensive SF game ever, with so many ways of rewarding turtling and defensive play. All three characters matter, but by and large the first 2/3 of the match is just preamble to see which anchor character is going to have a lead in the end.

[Zal]

^ shouldn't any decent fight be down to the last character? Since when is winnging two rounds in a row exciteing? the best matches are always those down to the wire. Would daigo's moment have been so exciting if it happened in the first round?

i honestly believe that MVC2 is a lot less balanced than CVS 2. I mean you can use so many other characters in this game effectively, and there are at least four viable grooves. (blanka, sagat, cammy, sakura, hinda, bison, rock, morgan, nakaruru, haomaru, king, chun li, joe, kyo, ken) i've seen so many of these characters do incredible things. I honestly think that some of these characters are just in hybernation.

[epsilon_]

If you knew anything about MvC2, you would know that basically each team is like a different character. Sure there are like 5 characters that are seen in regular high level play (including assists), but each team actually plays like a different "character". MSP, MSS, Matrix, Santhrax, SSCable, Scrub etc all play very very differently even they are composed of mainly the same characters.

[jchensor]

The answer is simple: the Ratio System is flawed and takes away excitement.

Quite simply put, there is nothing at stake until the last character. The nice thing about other games is that rounds matter. So when someone makes a comeback in Round 1, it matters. If you win by a pixel, it matters. In CvS2, winning by a pixel means nothing until the last character. If I used Ratio 1 Maki and I barely defeated your Ratio 1 Sagat, it doesn't matter. Most likely, your next character will come in and kill Maki right away.

And thanks to the whole Ratio 1 vs. Ratio 2 thing, even if my Maki decides to destroy your second character on a tiny pixel, your last Ratio 2 character hs the easy chance of killing Maki AND my other Ratio 1 character with enough life left to take on my Ratio 2 character.

CvS2 is a great game in every other respect. It's very technical, there's lots of high end play, etc. etc. I'm not trying to say the game is bad. But because of the Ratio system, no one ever feels like anything is at stake until the final characters. And it sucks excitement away from the game. Honestly, the way CvS2 should have worked is no Ratios, 3 characters every time, and the first characters fight and whoever wins wins Round 1. Then the next 2 characters fight and whomever wins wins Round 2. If the same player wins both, game over. If they both win one, go to third character and play to see who wins there.

What happens NOW is that Rounds matter. And because Rounds matter now, learning match ups matter more. If I make Maki go first and you chose Sagat first, now it REALLY matters to know how to use Maki to beat Sagat. Right now, I can do 60% damage and feel like she did a "good enough of a job." There's no excitement in that. Also, character order is a trickier game now. "He has two characters that counter my Maki... hopefully I can pick the order in such a way so that he picked the non-counter character in the same Round I picked Maki." Even just describing this makes it feel like match ups matter a lot more, don't you agree? When Rounds matter, when match ups matter, that creates tension. And then all of the crazy technical shit that exists in the game have more impact.

Right now, CvS2 is a very good game. Just watch the CvS2 Evo West videos on my YouTube page and you can see how exciting the game can truly be (even without the rowdy crowd). But because of the way the game is designed, it jsut doesn't have the lasting power and doesn't have the ability to keep non-committed players interested in it. It can't draw casual players in because it's really hard to feel the tension and excitement of CvS2 compared to other games.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Havoc]

I agree that rounds don't matter in the same sense, but in another sense, they really do matter. That's why so many lazy fucks will only pick top tiers.

With my team, I already have to work my order around to avoid certain problem matches that come up (Iori v. Bison/Blanka, Hibiki v. Cammy/Vega), but I still have to know those match-ups really well because the fights matter. Actually winning the individual rounds doesn't matter, but like laugh said, each second of every round matters.

In CvS2, in every round, I have to kill my opponent as quickly as possible, while taking as little damage as possible because it all carries over, and it all impacts the match.

In other SF games, it doesn't matter how you win, so there's a specific pressure involved in a CvS2 match that isn't in any other game. Sure, that pressure to win every round isn't there, but it's replaced by something else. It doesn't translate to people that don't understand the game, since it's not as explicit as winning a round, but it's there.

[Master Chibi]

CvS2 is a horrible game when played to win.

Every fighting game when it's played to win is horrible and utterly boring.

Run-away Storm, c.MK whoring Chun-Li, c.MP abusing Rose, xx / Duolon / Damon, Kula / Gato / Oswald, Zato (3 unblockables for lulz) -1, list goes on.

;p

[G.O.T]

Every fighting game when it's played to win is horrible and utterly boring.

Run-away Storm, c.MK whoring Chun-Li, c.MP abusing Rose, xx / Duolon / Damon, Kula / Gato / Oswald, Zato (3 unblockables for lulz) -1, list goes on.

;p

No not really. Some do though.

[Master Chibi]

No not really. Some do though.

lol ok guy

All fighting games reach that point.

[Tigerboi]

lol ok guy

All fighting games reach that point.

It's a mtter of opinion no matter how you look at it.
But no, I wouldn't say that at all.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Basically, CvS2 is a hardcore player's SF that does not translate well AT ALL to the casual audience. And the casual audience is becoming more and more important these days, as Evo is aiming to achieve the feel of a sporting event.

Sorry to say this, but if the masses are 3s kiddies, then so be it. It's the nature of capitalism - like with everything else, you need to accept the good and the bad...

-Josh

[Ponder]

Every fighting game when it's played to win is horrible and utterly boring.

Not ST.

[COUM]

Not ST.

I agree with you, but I'm just going to mention the classic exception of o. Sagat vs. o. Sagat before anyone else gets to it.

[Khiempossible]

Not ST.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeQClQfshU4

[COUM]

That's AE, not ST. :)

[No defence]

SRK is thinking :arazz: about nurfing CVS2 from EVO.

If you think the game is boring play checkers.

Play low tiers.... Or who ever you want to play.

Besides Super Turbo......... what else is Streetfighter?

Japanese dont Even play MVC2. They still play Cvs2.

It a street fighter classic.... just like ST, 3S, Marvel 2.


It all about comp and who's planing what game.


CVS2 is the only thing In Life that I am good at..... Its Just A Habit. Whats your habit Guy's.:lol:

[Ubersaurus]

Japanese barely play CvS2. When I went to a-cho in May the machines were empty most of the time, save for at one point when a couple of guys were playing.

3s was pretty empty too, for that matter.

[No defence]

Marvel Looks Cool like shit.

It's like Command and conquer and Rockem sockem robots colliding with technology.

3s looks Cool / hype sound track.

ST Music is epic. Hadoken! Classic game.


CVS2 is good. A groove And the groove/ character selection is crazy. Lots of team planing.:annoy:

[No defence]

Japanese barely play CvS2. When I went to a-cho in May the machines were empty most of the time, save for at one point when a couple of guys were playing.

3s was pretty empty too, for that matter.

Cats dont play at A-cho all the time....

That's not the only arcade in Japan:wgrin:

Japan is the Technology And gaming universe. They play everthing.

All types of different games.


Gilty Gear is sex. But I dont fuck with it.

[Iceman]

EDIT- If the chess analogy is no good, then think of lead-off hitters in baseball. Yeah, they don't usually hit home runs (sometimes they do... OCV!), but their walks and base hits put the team in position to score. Sure, Bonds hits the home run that scores the runs, but the lead batters are important too.

Did anyone else read the Bonds analogy and think "Sagat is on the juice!"

[Taiki]

Cats dont play at A-cho all the time....

That's not the only arcade in Japan:wgrin:

Japan is the Technology And gaming universe. They play everthing.

All types of different games.


Gilty Gear is sex. But I dont fuck with it.

Japanese gamers still hold tournaments for shit like Fighter's History Dynamite and Ninja Combat.

I've noticed at Evo World that there wasn't much in the way of variety at the byoc and I think that reflects on the nature of American fighting gamers. CvS seems awful because no one's willing to play anything else other than marvel or 3s when there's literally a decade and a half of a back fighting game history library to play. It's not just CvS2 that's not gettin' the proper love. I mean, for God's sake, a modern version of Power Instinct came out in like, 2004(not to mention the ps2 port a year or so later)>

[hanz0]

Japanese gamers still hold tournaments for shit like Fighter's History Dynamite and Ninja Combat.

I've noticed at Evo World that there wasn't much in the way of variety at the byoc and I think that reflects on the nature of American fighting gamers. CvS seems awful because no one's willing to play anything else other than marvel or 3s when there's literally a decade and a half of a back fighting game history library to play. It's not just CvS2 that's not gettin' the proper love. I mean, for God's sake, a modern version of Power Instinct came out in like, 2004(not to mention the ps2 port a year or so later)>

amen:wink:

and if you guys cheked the latest version of mame you would see that tons of fighters have been made

honorable mention of Martial Masters and Asura Blade and Asura Buster:wink:

[DevilJin 01]

LOL. I think it's better to just forget the modern version of Power Instinct.

In any event...it's tough to play games that don't have scenes just because there's almost no chance you'll get the mass of tourney players into them. Especially if it's an old fighting game...it's pretty much impossible. Dark Geese is a pretty good example of someone trying to get people to seriously play more obscure fighting games and it's real hit or miss. I mean...there's specific reasons why everyone plays what they like to play. It's just the game that they know they can always find comp for or it's just the game that really matters to them. Some people just don't find interest in playing a bunch of different games. Especially when there's so many other non fighting games out there to play.

Games like Fighter's History Dynamite and Ninja Combat never really got a ton of exposure in the US. Fighter's History came out when SF2 was already a pretty established game and got knocked because it seemed too much like a SF clone. Nobody knows what Ninja Combat is so yeah. Same thing with the majority of other fighting games on MAME...they just never got exposure so getting people to seriously play those games is going to be tough. US grew up on SF and Capcom fighting games in the US are almost as American as cheese. Those are just the games that people recognize and it's tough to get people to get into anything else when they're already busy with the games they have more of a passion for.

There just really isn't too much of a reason for the US to play much outside of the regular Evo games just because there's no scene to really give them a reason to. The Japanese aren't necessarily shoving it down our throats that we gotta beat them in those games. The only real chance for any of those more obscure MAME games to garner a scene is through online play. That's the only way people are going to get real exposure to competitive gaming in those games. There's not droves of tourney players offline that are looking for the next MAME game to play. You have to just simply like the games for what they are to even play them more than a couple times and have people that are also as serious about the games.

[Taiki]

LOL. I think it's better to just forget the modern version of Power Instinct.

In any event...it's tough to play games that don't have scenes just because there's almost no chance you'll get the mass of tourney players into them. Especially if it's an old fighting game...it's pretty much impossible. Dark Geese is a pretty good example of someone trying to get people to seriously play more obscure fighting games and it's real hit or miss. I mean...there's specific reasons why everyone plays what they like to play. It's just the game that they know they can always find comp for or it's just the game that really matters to them. Some people just don't find interest in playing a bunch of different games. Especially when there's so many other non fighting games out there to play.

Games like Fighter's History Dynamite and Ninja Combat never really got a ton of exposure in the US. Fighter's History came out when SF2 was already a pretty established game and got knocked because it seemed too much like a SF clone. Nobody knows what Ninja Combat is so yeah. Same thing with the majority of other fighting games on MAME...they just never got exposure so getting people to seriously play those games is going to be tough. US grew up on SF and Capcom fighting games in the US are almost as American as cheese. Those are just the games that people recognize and it's tough to get people to get into anything else when they're already busy with the games they have more of a passion for.

There just really isn't too much of a reason for the US to play much outside of the regular Evo games just because there's no scene to really give them a reason to. The Japanese aren't necessarily shoving it down our throats that we gotta beat them in those games. The only real chance for any of those more obscure MAME games to garner a scene is through online play. That's the only way people are going to get real exposure to competitive gaming in those games. There's not droves of tourney players offline that are looking for the next MAME game to play. You have to just simply like the games for what they are to even play them more than a couple times and have people that are also as serious about the games.

C'mon, what's so bad about Matrimelee? :P

The reason you play those games is that they're FUN. :arazz: Competitive play is fun in it's own right, but ever happend to sitting aroudn with some beers and some shitty game you got off ebay for 10 bucks?

[DevilJin 01]

C'mon, what's so bad about Matrimelee? :P

The reason you play those games is that they're FUN. :arazz: Competitive play is fun in it's own right, but ever happend to sitting aroudn with some beers and some shitty game you got off ebay for 10 bucks?



Heh...my friend always threatened to buy me some shitty game for my bday and I always told him I would throw it in the fire first. I definitely wasn't going to be playing that shitty game by myself. :lol:

What's so bad about Matrimelee is that it's bad. I don't like the way it looks...don't like the music...even played a few times and didn't even like the way it played. My bro randomly likes the game actually but watching him play it for me was like watching a bad episode of some old 80's show. If a game doesn't look or feel interesting to me...forget it. Not every fighting game clicks for me. Like...I really like Neowave even though no one else plays it but there are just fighting games that I just don't work with and won't ever care to.

For me...the competitiveness of a fighting game is what makes it fun for me. It's the reason why I don't play too many other types of games these days. I just like the way the fighting game scene is and how people group together and hang out for big tourney events. There's just nothing else like it IMO. Playing a random fighting game with your friends is good fun and all but I just get the most enjoyment out of playing a competitive fighter in a scene that a lot of people click with. Especially if I already really like the game. It's just fun for me. Playing a game just for the sake of playing it isn't very fun for me anymore. I'll do it if someone else wants to play whatever game but I know what I'd rather be doing and would rather spend more time on.

[pherai]

truth

Agreed 100%. I don't know how this relates to the topic, but playing obscure fighting games should really only be about passion for the game itself. There are tons of fighting games out there, and I'm sure there are many with a potential for deep gameplay, but most people don't have time to be competent in more than 2 games. I think when you split your time between 20 games, and never get any good at any of them, it kind of defeats the purpose of playing fighting games, cause you never get to experience the deep strategy which makes them fun.

[GunterJPN]

Japanese barely play CvS2. When I went to a-cho in May the machines were empty most of the time, save for at one point when a couple of guys were playing.

3s was pretty empty too, for that matter.

The big question is, why are you going to a-cho when Ibaraki VIP has 3 machines with constant competition? On my business trips there, I always faced great comp, esp. Rai and Uma (although Uma has been out of action recently, from what I hear).

[chalonverse]

To the OP: come to the CvS2 tourneys at FFA.

[goodm0urning]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I find CvS2 a lot of fun to watch, as long as it's played well (or in the rare event that it's a hilariously one-sided ass rape, as with SNAAAKE and LegendsOfLose). I suppose it gets a little arduous to watch someone fight his way out of the loser's bracket in the finals of a DE tourney, but beyond that, I don't think it takes an extraordinary amount of patience to enjoy.

[FSgamer]

CvS2 is my main game and it would be sad not to have it at Evo2k or other major tournaments.

I think more people should use N-groove and/or mid/midtop characters (yeah, I know, that was a pretty biased statement but whatever). Sure, Blanka, Sagat, Bison, etc, are really good and dominate a good chunk of the cast but there is still a good number of characters that are pretty solid and have potential.

Maybe having a side tournament where Sagat, Blanka, Bison, Cammy, Sakura & Vega were banned would help open people's eyes and see how good some of the mid/midtop characters are.

[Buktooth]

there's a lot of reasons why cvs2 isn't more popular, but i honestly think one of the bigger reasons is because...

it's "cool" to hate on cvs2.

at the last three evos in a row, after the finals are over i always overhear people saying something along the lines of "wow, cvs2 top 8 was really exciting. i think that and (insert game that isn't 3s) had the best top 8."

then, come next year, those same people are hanging out with their buddies like "cvs2 top 8 is next? i think i'm gonna catch up on sleep during that HAW I'M FUNNY"

however, the main reason cvs2 isn't more popular is because of its steep learning curve; the game isn't really fun until advanced levels, and it is realllly hard to get over that hump

[jae hoon]

Meh ontop of that I just think some of us got tired of defending it. I spent 5+ years defending against the same tired agruements, you just get tired of it after awhile.

[Buktooth]

Japanese barely play CvS2. When I went to a-cho in May the machines were empty most of the time, save for at one point when a couple of guys were playing.

3s was pretty empty too, for that matter.

in most arcades in japan, you're only going to see people playing the newest games. capcom games are crazy old, so you're going to have to know which arcades have a scene for them. japanese arcades generally "specialize" in one or two games, though they often hold tournaments for their non-specialized games now and then (contrary to what the internet would have you believe, there is NOT a scene at mikado for a2 / groove on fight / samurai showdown 2 etc.)

[Tigerboi]

there's a lot of reasons why cvs2 isn't more popular, but i honestly think one of the bigger reasons is because...

it's "cool" to hate on cvs2.

at the last three evos in a row, after the finals are over i always overhear people saying something along the lines of "wow, cvs2 top 8 was really exciting. i think that and (insert game that isn't 3s) had the best top 8."

then, come next year, those same people are hanging out with their buddies like "cvs2 top 8 is next? i think i'm gonna catch up on sleep during that HAW I'M FUNNY"

however, the main reason cvs2 isn't more popular is because of its steep learning curve; the game isn't really fun until advanced levels, and it is realllly hard to get over that hump


very true, alot of people are like that.....actually, I'd say the majority of the posters here are like that. I personally am very unbiased about it. I played it. Didn't like it. tried playing it more. didn't like it more. Went to go play something else. Simple as that.

[Ubersaurus]

in most arcades in japan, you're only going to see people playing the newest games. capcom games are crazy old, so you're going to have to know which arcades have a scene for them. japanese arcades generally "specialize" in one or two games, though they often hold tournaments for their non-specialized games now and then (contrary to what the internet would have you believe, there is NOT a scene at mikado for a2 / groove on fight / samurai showdown 2 etc.)

Then that would explain the shitloads of people around SFA3, then.

[epsilon_]

there's a lot of reasons why cvs2 isn't more popular, but i honestly think one of the bigger reasons is because...

it's "cool" to hate on cvs2.

at the last three evos in a row, after the finals are over i always overhear people saying something along the lines of "wow, cvs2 top 8 was really exciting. i think that and (insert game that isn't 3s) had the best top 8."

then, come next year, those same people are hanging out with their buddies like "cvs2 top 8 is next? i think i'm gonna catch up on sleep during that HAW I'M FUNNY"

however, the main reason cvs2 isn't more popular is because of its steep learning curve; the game isn't really fun until advanced levels, and it is realllly hard to get over that hump

And you think it isn't "cool" to hate on 3s? So many people hate on that game it's not even funny. Literally.

[No defence]

And you think it isn't "cool" to hate on 3s? So many people hate on that game it's not even funny. Literally.

SRK hate's on 3s?:confused: I think Not.:rofl:

EVO might not have CVS2 next year.... And all the Cvs2 player that hate 3s start Playing 3s because SF4 is going to suck.


fuck it everyone..... player superturbo.... Best Streef fighter EVER.....:lovin:

CVS2 is the BEST. Ban me for life.... please. Cvs2 is worse than crack... \\

3s is coke/ marvel is Meth!

[Tigerboi]

SRK hate's on 3s?:confused: I think Not.:rofl:

Are you implying that people don't hate on 3S? If so, you're so wrong it's funny.

And I doubt removing CVS2 would make 3S's scene any bigger. People who don't like it still aren't going to play it.

If SF4 sucks, I'm going to break your knees.

[Master Chibi]

And you think it isn't "cool" to hate on 3s? So many people hate on that game it's not even funny. Literally.

Yeah but your numbers are like through the fucking roof regardless of the hate so it doesn't matter, where as CvS2 is disliked and declining in numbers.

PS: 3S sucks.

[Taiki]

in most arcades in japan, you're only going to see people playing the newest games. capcom games are crazy old, so you're going to have to know which arcades have a scene for them. japanese arcades generally "specialize" in one or two games, though they often hold tournaments for their non-specialized games now and then (contrary to what the internet would have you believe, there is NOT a scene at mikado for a2 / groove on fight / samurai showdown 2 etc.)

No, but there's still a community for those games. Each time SNK puts out a rerelease anthology it tends to sell well into the 100k+ within the first month. My point was was that the Japanese community played the crap out of those games and they're moving on and occasionally they go back instead of being stuck solely on 3s and MvC2 like we seem to be. For them the idea of "fighting games" Means more than just two or three games.

[jae hoon]

Are you implying that people don't hate on 3S? If so, you're so wrong it's funny.

And I doubt removing CVS2 would make 3S's scene any bigger. People who don't like it still aren't going to play it.

If SF4 sucks, I'm going to break your knees.

3S doesnt get nearly the hate CvS2 does and CvS2 is a better game in almost everyway. I like both games though.

[DevilJin 01]

Yeah but your numbers are like through the fucking roof regardless of the hate so it doesn't matter, where as CvS2 is disliked and declining in numbers.

PS: 3S sucks.

:lovin: dat Tercera Huelga

[Tigerboi]

3S doesnt get nearly the hate CvS2 does and CvS2 is a better game in almost everyway.


It's not that simple though. Celarly if that's the case, many would disagree with that statement. ( I do) but which is better isn't a matter of what's on paper. It's about how much fun people have with each game.

[laugh]

That's just your definition on the meaning of the word "better" one I happen to disagree with.

[SNAAAAKE]

.


It's not that simple though. Celarly if that's the case, many would disagree with that statement. ( I do) but which is better isn't a matter of what's on paper. It's about how much fun people have with each game.

if you dont think cvs2 is the better game then you obviously dont know how the game works. if you had a clue, you would never EVER even compare 3s with cvs2. there is no contest.

"cvs2 top 8 is next? i think i'm gonna catch up on sleep during that HAW I'M FUNNY"






next one says random shit like that is getting rocket punched in the face..ROCKKEETT PUNCH !:mad:

[Tigerboi]

if you dont think cvs2 is the better game then you obviously dont know how the game works. if you had a clue, you would never EVER even compare 3s with cvs2. there is no contest.




I don't find them that comparible because they're so different, really.

Other than that, I disagree. So there's no real reason to discuss this further.

[ohayo1234]

In my opinion, CvS2 doesn't get as much recognition because...

1) A street fighter player's commitment to only one game. For ex: 3rd strike players are very proud to be 3rd strike players and nothing is better then 3rd strike.

2) CvS2 community's lack of participation in general. For various reasons CvS2 players are not vocal on srk forums. In addition, all CvS2 players love each other and shit, so they don't money match in general.

3) 3rd Strike and MvC2 players active involvement on srk forums. "Drama" threads and tournament result threads for only either 3rd Strike or MvC2(Even if multiple tournaments were held at the same place) are all over the forums. Newer players are exposed to these games the most so they believe these games are better.

4) Newer/Average player's belief that in CvS2, beating top players is just not possible, thus no one really wants to try. Like Buktooth mentioned previously, CvS2 does have a steep learning curve. Scrubs have less opportunities to be random and successful. (I.E. Mashing on assists or fishing for parries)<-Just a comparison, calm down.

And to the people that believe the only characters that matter in cvs2 are the ratio 2 characters at the end. I will say, "Go place top 8 at evolution hoe"

[Utsusemi]

CvS2 is my favorite fighting game and is alive and kicking at my arcade. I wish more people would start getting active on forums though...

[DevilJin 01]

. Scrubs have less opportunities to be random and successful. (I.E. Mashing on assists or fishing for parries)<-Just a comparison, calm down.

WHAT U SAY BOUT TRES?!!! :lol:

[Buktooth]

to those who argue that the first characters aren't important, i beg to differ.

your r1 k-cammy leaves r1 a-sakura at 10% life? you are at a huge disadvantage.

r1 iori flies through your first character with nearly a perfect? you are in tons of trouble.

your r1 middle character with 30% life, against opponent's anchor r2 a-bison. opponent kills you with a custom, going into the last round with no meter. your middle character getting killed was one of the most favorable things to happen in the match.

and the assumption that cvs2 players don't learn matchups and instead lean on the ratio system is hugely flawed. it also flies in the face of what all high-level cvs2 players have accomplished, inferring that they don't have to work as hard as players proficient in other games. the aforementioned steep learning curve says otherwise. (though i still love you james!)

[gato]

bronson posting -

i will make cvs2 popular in usa.

r4 cammy is coming back.

[Kataklysmic]

And you think it isn't "cool" to hate on 3s? So many people hate on that game it's not even funny. Literally.

3S gets more hate from top players than any active game out there. That says a lot. The problem is that parrying looks so impressive to the majority that they fail to see how the game de-emphasizes control over space and character variables. That's the only reason it gets more support than CvS2.

Read my sig.

[DevilJin 01]

3S gets more hate from top players than any active game out there. That says a lot. The problem is that parrying looks so impressive to the majority that they fail to see how the game de-emphasizes control over space and character variables. That's the only reason it gets more support than CvS2.

Read my sig.

That's definitely not the only reason. It's definitely one of the bigger reasons but plenty of other valid reasons were already explained. The 3S scene as a whole is not that shallow. 3rd Strike is just a different game and a lot of the people that play 3rd Strike (including myself) never really played old school SF seriously back in the day. Like not competing in tournaments or figuring out on a message forum how to control space with Blanka or how to fight the Vega matchup with Sagat. Just a different generation of SF players that played enough SF to know what it's about but the newer game is what caught their eye.

Which means it's tough to get those kinds of people to also play other games that play more like traditional SF. I actually regularly compete in ST tourneys now and still try to play CVS2 every now and then and both of those games have taught me a lot about the way SF works. Even things that I've gone back and learned to implement in 3rd Strike. Maybe not exactly in the same way but you can learn things from the other games...that's for sure.

Oh and yes...Arturo is right. Can't have a scene without people to watch the top players.

[Kataklysmic]

Yeah, you're right.

The bottom line is the majority is wrong. For them to dictate the lifespan of a good game for reasons not associated with close observations, research and experience is hypocrisy. And these are the same people who claim that anything without a solid tournament following in the US isn't worth playing.

ST still gets play, so I'm only hoping that CvS2 doesn't phase out completely.

[ramza]

You're right. Read my sig.

I would think that's fairly obvious, esp. with 3rd Strike. Its a game where an ego is easy to foster, much less develop one at all. Its nearly impossible for a person new to CvS2 develop an "ego" or at least the feeling of "i'm improving everytime i play". Outside of the actual skill required to play CvS2, I think there's too much "barrier entry" knowledge required to compete. In addition, theres CvS2 players out there that still lose due to ignorance. This is almost never brought up but I think the fact that you only play characters one round against other characters makes it hard to truly learn matchups without extensive play. In ST(and 3S) you have 2-3 rounds every time to see how a certain character fights, their tricks, gimmicks, etc. Played for a session you begin to have a good feel for fighting that character. The fact that you only play matchups once per game in CvS2 means alot more matches to get to that comfort level. Its a commitment I don't think alot of people new to CvS2(06-now) are willing to make.

[Utsusemi]

i will make cvs2 popular in usa.
:tup:
r4 cammy is coming back.
:tdown:

[Return of Shiki]

Actually, more Ratio 4 characters would eliminate much of the running time of CvS2 tournaments...which is the biggest reason EVO wants to do away with the game.

[Kataklysmic]

I would think that's fairly obvious, esp. with 3rd Strike. Its a game where an ego is easy to foster, much less develop one at all. Its nearly impossible for a person new to CvS2 develop an "ego" or at least the feeling of "i'm improving everytime i play". Outside of the actual skill required to play CvS2, I think there's too much "barrier entry" knowledge required to compete. In addition, theres CvS2 players out there that still lose due to ignorance. This is almost never brought up but I think the fact that you only play characters one round against other characters makes it hard to truly learn matchups without extensive play. In ST(and 3S) you have 2-3 rounds every time to see how a certain character fights, their tricks, gimmicks, etc. Played for a session you begin to have a good feel for fighting that character. The fact that you only play matchups once per game in CvS2 means alot more matches to get to that comfort level. Its a commitment I don't think alot of people new to CvS2(06-now) are willing to make.

Yeah, that all fits in with what I'm trying to say. These people will pride themselves in being part of a community that promotes a no-nonsense approach to gaming. But if they knowingly don't have the patience to dissect a game to truly understand it, who are they to talk? It irritates me to no fucking end. This site is the only thing left supporting this genre, and yet more than half of it is eager to condemn something if it doesn't look or play at all like what they're use to.

I honestly think it should be the top players that govern major SF events. If it means holding tournaments with a maximum of 20 participants, so be it. At least then we'll see more often how great a game can be at its highest level.

[ramza]

Yeah, that all fits in with what I'm trying to say. These people will pride themselves in being part of a community that promotes a no-nonsense approach to gaming. But if they knowingly don't have the patience to dissect a game to truly understand it, who are they to talk? It irritates me to no fucking end. This site is the only thing left supporting this genre, and yet more than half of it is eager to condemn something if it doesn't look or play at all like what they're use