The Lone Dragon
12-13-2007, 05:37 PM
The previous thread (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=141420) was getting too long, and people kept missing the developments...
Also, the previous thread was mostly theoretical. Here is the updated version of my idea with real specifics. Plus, with the new specs we've recently learned, we have a slightly better idea of what SF4 might be.
Polygons and a third dimension make this idea so much easier...
The Combo Control Meter: a.k.a "the SORTA death of the combo"
It's a meter separate from your life meter and your super meter. The C.C.Meter does not regenerate, and it's only refilled when the round restarts. It allows you different options depending on your situation (i.e. offense or defense).
PURPOSE OF THIS SYSTEM:
-More interactive gaming experience for offense AND defense (a.k.a more decision making for everyone.)
-Game balance...since combos are harder to balance than the moves that comprise them, this will serve a self-checking function. The players can balance the game themselves, on the fly.
-Make combos more meaningful and fulfilling.
-Innovation
-Fun
C.C.METER OPTIONS FOR THE DEFENSE:
The C.C.Meter gives you the Hit-Stun Recovery technique. This technique allows you to escape GROUND hit stun animations, ONLY AFTER THE 3RD HIT OF THE COMBO. Upon performing the Hits Stun Recover, the defense enters one of 4 different states depending of the defense's choice (a shout out to polygons for making this easier to do):
Option 1. side step clockwise into standing guard stun. A side stagger animation, that automatically guards against mid attacks (overheads). Low attacks equal a free hit for the offense. When the stagger animation is finally finished, there is no moment of vulnerability (defense can move, block, attack).
Option 2. side step counter-clockwise into crouching guard stun. A side stagger animation, that automatically guards against low attacks (overheads). Mid attacks (overheads) attacks equal a free hit for the offense. When the stagger animation is finally finished, there is no moment of vulnerability (defense can move, block, attack).
Option 3. back dash into air (or back flip if you dig ninjas). The animation ends with a stylish slide. The slide is more than just stylish...it also makes the defense's recovery time a little longer, even though they've jumped back from danger. During the jumping part, the defense can be juggled freely, if the offense can predict it. During the slide part, defense can choose to guard mid and low, even though they can't move...still, the offense can use mix-ups, and possibly earn a hit if the defense guards incorrectly.
Option 4. roll forward through opponent. This is the fastest of the four options, allowing the defense to recover the most quickly. Like an SNK or CVS roll, the first frames are invincible to hits. However, there is a moment of vulnerability at the end of the animation, leaving the defense open to a free hit if the offense is quick to predict. Also, you can be thrown during the roll.
How is it performed:
During hit stun of the 3rd hit or higher, press F + strong punch (option 1), forward kick (option 2), fierce punch (option 3), roundhouse kick (option 4).
The timing of the attack button pressed must coincide with the expected next hit, like a SF3 parry timing. However, if the defense wants they can begin holding the F direction before pressing the attack button.
This command forces the Hit Stun Recover to be deliberate, not mashed. It also forces the defense to commit and put themselves in additional harm's way if they predict the combo incorrectly. For example, the offense can delay their next blow until just when hit stun ends, and if the defense tries the Hit Stun Recover after the hit stun is over, they'll do a basic standing attack instead...and, they'll get counter hit for bonus damage.
How much meter does it cost:
Options 1 and 2 = about 1/3 meter
These are the riskiest for the defense, since they keep you close and you're possibly vulnerable to a free hit. So, these cost the least.
Option 3 = about 1/2 meter
Gives the defense some distance fairly quickly, making it more valuable than option 1 or 2. However, the first frames are airborne and vulnerable to free juggling (and hit stun recover is not available during juggle).
Option 4 = Entire meter
The quickest and most desirable of the options, because it can cross up the offense, and force them to turn around...that equals valuable time for the defense to get away or even mount a counter offense if you're clever. It's not invincible, of course...but, still it's very desirable. Hence, you can only do it once per round
Notice, how the meter costs are mostly approximate. That's because different characters have different meter lengths, depending on their play styles. Combo heavy, speedy characters have regular sized C.C.Meters. Slower power types, and grapplers have longer C.C.Meters. This is a result of defensive considerations...AND offensive considerations:
C.C.METER OPTIONS FOR THE OFFENSE:
The C.C.Meter is not just for Hit Stun Recover...the offense has an options called the "Attack Cancel".
It's basically a Roman Cancel from GG. It breaks the recovery time after an attack connects, and gives the offense immediate control.
It normally costs about 1/3 of the C.C.Meter.
The offense performs it by pressing PP or KK, at the moment a hit connects with a non-blocking opponent. Note, if the defense is blocking, the Attack Cancel won't work. That means, it's free for the offense to buffer into attack sequences without fear of wasting it on a blocking enemy.
Offensive Meter Bonus:
The Attack Cancel usually costs about 1/2 meter. HOWEVER, if the offense performs the Attack Cancel at the same time that the defense performs a Hit Stun Recover, the Attack Cancel costs the offense 1/4 meter. This rewards the offense for successful anticipation. It also, guarantees that the defense will not spam the Hit Stun Recover, since the defense FEARS a well timed Attack Cancel.
Uses of the Attack Cancel:
1. Allows combo heavy character more freedom by creating a means of combination extension and customization.
2. Allows non-combo characters more control over their positioning and spacing. (connect with a normal > Attack Cancel > dash in during opponent's recovery...etc.)
3. MOST IMPORTANTLY, it helps the offense capitalize on the defense's Hit Stun Recover, which is the main purpose of the Attack Cancel. As described earlier, each of the four Hit Stun Recover options has a weakness. The Attack Cancel helps the offense regain control more quickly, and rush down the defense during their Hit Stun Recovery animation. So, if the defense performed Option 4 unwisely, they might get owned because they're briefly vulnerable at the end of the roll AND they have no C.C.Meter left (Option 4 costs the entire meter).
Miscellaneous Issues:
-Thanks to Alfred for the idea of variable C.C.Meter costs. The longer the defense waits to initiate the Hit Stun Recover, the less meter it costs. Meaning, if you do it during a 4 hit combo the meter cost will be more than if you wait, take a few more hits, and THEN use it.
-Oh, what to do with that left over meter...
Since different characters have different sized C.C.Meters and meter costs vary, there will undoubtedly be some unusable left overs. That's why I propose a conversion option. By taunting (or maybe a separate command) players have the option of converting left over C.C.Meter into super meter.
Note, you can do this whenever...so if you want to convert your entire C.C.Meter into Super Meter at the beginning of the round, go for it. Of course, then you'll be vulnerable to long, deadly combos with no hit stun recovery to save you...AND your opponent will have Attack Cancels allowing them
to bust extended combos.
And, since C.C.Meter is refilled at the beginning of each round, there is no advantage to holding it across rounds...but, super meter IS held over across rounds. So, players would be encouraged to convert at some point during the round. The question is, WHEN? How early? Choose wisely...
-Why are the first 3 hits of a combo free? Because, that preserves the basic SF combo: Jumping attack > standing attack > cancel into special.
Any bonus damage beyond that needs to be earned though careful prediction and execution.
-Why no Hit Stun Recover in the air? Because, air control should be used instead. Like Smash or Soul Calibur, juggles will be countered with directional influence.
-Where 3 meets 4...the space between the third and fourth hit of a combo is where a new battle ground will develop. The offense will do their best to mix up the fourth move in an attempt to confuse the defense, and mess up their Hit-Stun Recover technique. Or maybe, the offense will throw out dummy moves, just to bait the defense into wasting C.C.Meter.
Meanwhile, the defense will be trying their best to read the offense's 3 hit sequence in an attempt to predict the speed of the fourth hit...and make a decision. Hit Stun Recover? Or not? If I do, I might get Attack Cancelled and hurt even more than the original combo would have done. Maybe, the defense should just eat the hit, and bait the offense's Attack Cancel...then the offense will lose a little of their C.C.Meter, and be more susceptible to the defense's future combos. You get the drift...lots of decisions to be made.
-I guess combos are no longer "dead" in my system. Just leashed. So, combo lovers still have situations where their creativity can go unchecked...you just have to be a bit more tactful to UNCOVER those situations.
-None of this is set in stone. I encourage feedback...that's why I posted it here.
Also, the previous thread was mostly theoretical. Here is the updated version of my idea with real specifics. Plus, with the new specs we've recently learned, we have a slightly better idea of what SF4 might be.
Polygons and a third dimension make this idea so much easier...
The Combo Control Meter: a.k.a "the SORTA death of the combo"
It's a meter separate from your life meter and your super meter. The C.C.Meter does not regenerate, and it's only refilled when the round restarts. It allows you different options depending on your situation (i.e. offense or defense).
PURPOSE OF THIS SYSTEM:
-More interactive gaming experience for offense AND defense (a.k.a more decision making for everyone.)
-Game balance...since combos are harder to balance than the moves that comprise them, this will serve a self-checking function. The players can balance the game themselves, on the fly.
-Make combos more meaningful and fulfilling.
-Innovation
-Fun
C.C.METER OPTIONS FOR THE DEFENSE:
The C.C.Meter gives you the Hit-Stun Recovery technique. This technique allows you to escape GROUND hit stun animations, ONLY AFTER THE 3RD HIT OF THE COMBO. Upon performing the Hits Stun Recover, the defense enters one of 4 different states depending of the defense's choice (a shout out to polygons for making this easier to do):
Option 1. side step clockwise into standing guard stun. A side stagger animation, that automatically guards against mid attacks (overheads). Low attacks equal a free hit for the offense. When the stagger animation is finally finished, there is no moment of vulnerability (defense can move, block, attack).
Option 2. side step counter-clockwise into crouching guard stun. A side stagger animation, that automatically guards against low attacks (overheads). Mid attacks (overheads) attacks equal a free hit for the offense. When the stagger animation is finally finished, there is no moment of vulnerability (defense can move, block, attack).
Option 3. back dash into air (or back flip if you dig ninjas). The animation ends with a stylish slide. The slide is more than just stylish...it also makes the defense's recovery time a little longer, even though they've jumped back from danger. During the jumping part, the defense can be juggled freely, if the offense can predict it. During the slide part, defense can choose to guard mid and low, even though they can't move...still, the offense can use mix-ups, and possibly earn a hit if the defense guards incorrectly.
Option 4. roll forward through opponent. This is the fastest of the four options, allowing the defense to recover the most quickly. Like an SNK or CVS roll, the first frames are invincible to hits. However, there is a moment of vulnerability at the end of the animation, leaving the defense open to a free hit if the offense is quick to predict. Also, you can be thrown during the roll.
How is it performed:
During hit stun of the 3rd hit or higher, press F + strong punch (option 1), forward kick (option 2), fierce punch (option 3), roundhouse kick (option 4).
The timing of the attack button pressed must coincide with the expected next hit, like a SF3 parry timing. However, if the defense wants they can begin holding the F direction before pressing the attack button.
This command forces the Hit Stun Recover to be deliberate, not mashed. It also forces the defense to commit and put themselves in additional harm's way if they predict the combo incorrectly. For example, the offense can delay their next blow until just when hit stun ends, and if the defense tries the Hit Stun Recover after the hit stun is over, they'll do a basic standing attack instead...and, they'll get counter hit for bonus damage.
How much meter does it cost:
Options 1 and 2 = about 1/3 meter
These are the riskiest for the defense, since they keep you close and you're possibly vulnerable to a free hit. So, these cost the least.
Option 3 = about 1/2 meter
Gives the defense some distance fairly quickly, making it more valuable than option 1 or 2. However, the first frames are airborne and vulnerable to free juggling (and hit stun recover is not available during juggle).
Option 4 = Entire meter
The quickest and most desirable of the options, because it can cross up the offense, and force them to turn around...that equals valuable time for the defense to get away or even mount a counter offense if you're clever. It's not invincible, of course...but, still it's very desirable. Hence, you can only do it once per round
Notice, how the meter costs are mostly approximate. That's because different characters have different meter lengths, depending on their play styles. Combo heavy, speedy characters have regular sized C.C.Meters. Slower power types, and grapplers have longer C.C.Meters. This is a result of defensive considerations...AND offensive considerations:
C.C.METER OPTIONS FOR THE OFFENSE:
The C.C.Meter is not just for Hit Stun Recover...the offense has an options called the "Attack Cancel".
It's basically a Roman Cancel from GG. It breaks the recovery time after an attack connects, and gives the offense immediate control.
It normally costs about 1/3 of the C.C.Meter.
The offense performs it by pressing PP or KK, at the moment a hit connects with a non-blocking opponent. Note, if the defense is blocking, the Attack Cancel won't work. That means, it's free for the offense to buffer into attack sequences without fear of wasting it on a blocking enemy.
Offensive Meter Bonus:
The Attack Cancel usually costs about 1/2 meter. HOWEVER, if the offense performs the Attack Cancel at the same time that the defense performs a Hit Stun Recover, the Attack Cancel costs the offense 1/4 meter. This rewards the offense for successful anticipation. It also, guarantees that the defense will not spam the Hit Stun Recover, since the defense FEARS a well timed Attack Cancel.
Uses of the Attack Cancel:
1. Allows combo heavy character more freedom by creating a means of combination extension and customization.
2. Allows non-combo characters more control over their positioning and spacing. (connect with a normal > Attack Cancel > dash in during opponent's recovery...etc.)
3. MOST IMPORTANTLY, it helps the offense capitalize on the defense's Hit Stun Recover, which is the main purpose of the Attack Cancel. As described earlier, each of the four Hit Stun Recover options has a weakness. The Attack Cancel helps the offense regain control more quickly, and rush down the defense during their Hit Stun Recovery animation. So, if the defense performed Option 4 unwisely, they might get owned because they're briefly vulnerable at the end of the roll AND they have no C.C.Meter left (Option 4 costs the entire meter).
Miscellaneous Issues:
-Thanks to Alfred for the idea of variable C.C.Meter costs. The longer the defense waits to initiate the Hit Stun Recover, the less meter it costs. Meaning, if you do it during a 4 hit combo the meter cost will be more than if you wait, take a few more hits, and THEN use it.
-Oh, what to do with that left over meter...
Since different characters have different sized C.C.Meters and meter costs vary, there will undoubtedly be some unusable left overs. That's why I propose a conversion option. By taunting (or maybe a separate command) players have the option of converting left over C.C.Meter into super meter.
Note, you can do this whenever...so if you want to convert your entire C.C.Meter into Super Meter at the beginning of the round, go for it. Of course, then you'll be vulnerable to long, deadly combos with no hit stun recovery to save you...AND your opponent will have Attack Cancels allowing them
to bust extended combos.
And, since C.C.Meter is refilled at the beginning of each round, there is no advantage to holding it across rounds...but, super meter IS held over across rounds. So, players would be encouraged to convert at some point during the round. The question is, WHEN? How early? Choose wisely...
-Why are the first 3 hits of a combo free? Because, that preserves the basic SF combo: Jumping attack > standing attack > cancel into special.
Any bonus damage beyond that needs to be earned though careful prediction and execution.
-Why no Hit Stun Recover in the air? Because, air control should be used instead. Like Smash or Soul Calibur, juggles will be countered with directional influence.
-Where 3 meets 4...the space between the third and fourth hit of a combo is where a new battle ground will develop. The offense will do their best to mix up the fourth move in an attempt to confuse the defense, and mess up their Hit-Stun Recover technique. Or maybe, the offense will throw out dummy moves, just to bait the defense into wasting C.C.Meter.
Meanwhile, the defense will be trying their best to read the offense's 3 hit sequence in an attempt to predict the speed of the fourth hit...and make a decision. Hit Stun Recover? Or not? If I do, I might get Attack Cancelled and hurt even more than the original combo would have done. Maybe, the defense should just eat the hit, and bait the offense's Attack Cancel...then the offense will lose a little of their C.C.Meter, and be more susceptible to the defense's future combos. You get the drift...lots of decisions to be made.
-I guess combos are no longer "dead" in my system. Just leashed. So, combo lovers still have situations where their creativity can go unchecked...you just have to be a bit more tactful to UNCOVER those situations.
-None of this is set in stone. I encourage feedback...that's why I posted it here.