Getting used to sicks?

[Shin_Shinyuken]

I just recently bought a Hori Real Arcade Pro 2 stick, and it is my first stick ever. (I've played CvS2 & 3S for two years with PS2 controller). Of course with any change it feels different, I play a little worse on my stick than my controller. I'm just so used to having all my options a few centimeters away from each other, I guess. :P

But my question is, how long did it take you to get used to using sticks? I'd like an idea of how long it takes one to fully make the transition and be comfortable with sticks versus controllers. Even if you started at the arcade and never had a "getting used to period" I would still like your insight to sticks versus controllers.

Thanks :)

[gl0ry]

Everyones transition time is different. It really depends on the person.

What I do suggest is to keep using the stick and don't give up. Once you get to the point where you're totally comfortable with it, you'll probably never want to use a controller again.

[TingBoy]

Everyones transition time is different. It really depends on the person.

What I do suggest is to keep using the stick and don't give up. Once you get to the point where you're totally comfortable with it, you'll probably never want to use a controller again.

QFT. I have a modded HRAP2 and I've never looked back, unless it's for an RPG or some game that needs analog =\

[VR-Fist]

Yeah, never giving up, no matter if you win or lose, is the critical factor, imo. In that case, it won't take very long, maximally few months.

I have a friend - always mad when he loses - he can never learn on the stick because he always throws it away and picks the stupid pad.

[JubeiNinja69]

don't use a stick if you're not comfortable with it. if you are good with your thumbs which is what a pad is all about than use the damn pad.

[fr3dsk1]

I bought an HRAP3 a few months ago.
I use Urien, Q and Hugo

My Hugo is already deadlier than he ever was on a pad
My Urien is getting there, probably almost up to where I was with a pad
My Q is probably at about 3/4 of the proficiency he was when I was using pad

As the previous guys said, do NOT give up. you WILL lose and it will be frustrating but don't go back to the pad man - it'd be like going back to riding your bike with training wheels after you fell off once on a real bike.

[Sex Instructor]

The more you practice with it the shorter your time will be, first thing you should do is hit training mode and get those normals and specials down

[Big Pockets]

My first appreciation of a stick came from dashes, high-jumps, and parries in TS. All those seemed easier from the get go. Specials took a little time though. Plan on 5-6 years of hard training. You might be used to it by then...maybe.

[EveryFlowerFlow]

keep playing. that's all

[mcginnis]

I don't think it should take you more than a week to fully get used to it. Depends on how long you play a day. I used to play fighters with the d-pad and was pretty good but with a stick it's easier to pull things off consistently since it's more accurate. I also have an hrap2 modded with art and sanwa parts. :bgrin:

[Kajoq]

Try practicing with Charge characters to start with. My Boxer/Guile/Honda, etc. all got WAYYYYY better on Super Turbo as soon as I started playing with a stick. Use the square gate to your advantage so you're always charging Down/Back - This way you can quickly go to either U/B for flash kicks or D/F for sonic booms, and still retain the charge for the other.

practice practice practice

[EvilSamurai]

Try practicing with Charge characters to start with. My Boxer/Guile/Honda, etc. all got WAYYYYY better on Super Turbo as soon as I started playing with a stick. Use the square gate to your advantage so you're always charging Down/Back - This way you can quickly go to either U/B for flash kicks or D/F for sonic booms, and still retain the charge for the other.

practice practice practice

Charge characters are almost always easier to use on a square gate. When using a Happ/Fanta/etc. I basically have to find db before I start playing. I also noticed that QCFs are surprisingly easier for me on a square gate than on a circular/octagonal one as I tend to accidently "tiger knee" my fireballs sometimes and get anti aired for huge damage. For all other circular motions though, I find circular/octagonal gates much better. Overall, I don't really care what the gate is as long as I am not playing a character with 360 motions, a Mishima, or characters with weird super motions like Guile/Vega.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

Your mistake was getting an Hrap as your first stick, have fun doing dragon punches on that thing. This is America, and our arcades use HAPP.

[Kajoq]

I can DP way faster on my HRAP than sloppy mushy HAPP sticks

[Kyokuji]

I recently switched over to wineglass because it's way better for my DP consistency.
Couple questions though:

-How the hell do you IAD like this?
-I'm having trouble dashing left, do you just sort of push left against the stick with your middle/ring fingers? In the past, I held it pencil style, and I'd just tap the side of the stick with my thumb.

[EvilSamurai]

Your mistake was getting an Hrap as your first stick, have fun doing dragon punches on that thing. This is America, and our arcades use HAPP.

I just switched out my octagonal gate for a square gate and now I am wondering how in the hell anyone can dp on that thing.

[Warrior's Dreams]

But my question is, how long did it take you to get used to using sticks? I'd like an idea of how long it takes one to fully make the transition and be comfortable with sticks versus controllers. Even if you started at the arcade and never had a "getting used to period" I would still like your insight to sticks versus controllers.

Thanks :)

It took me a few months to be honest. It was pretty frustrating at first because I was used to just using my thumbs and I used pad my whole life. I felt like I didnt know how to play the game at all anymore. But I stuck with it in spite of all the frustration and I havent looked back since (which is not to say playing pad is useless. e.g., charging turn punches with ST Boxer using one shoulder buttons, and actually being able to use your other buttons with greater ease during a match is MUCH easier for me on a pad than it is on a stick).

Go into training mode and practice. Try to get a "feel" for the stick. That is, make a conscious and concentrated effort to be aware of what it feels like to push in each of the 8 directions. Work on this first, so you can get a foundation to build on.

Once you've done this, start working on your motions (e.g., fireball, dragon punch, tiger knee, half circle, 360, etc...). Start each motion slowly, and concentrate on how the stick feels as you move it from direction to direction. Chances are, fireball motion will be easiest, so that is a good place to start. Work on consistency. Your execution is one of the most important foundations that you can build because you cannot win matches if you cannot do moves, plain and simple. Dont cheat yourself out of this. Chances are it will be very hard and you will be very frustrated. But with consistency comes results. You should train yourself such that these moves become easier and easier to do, until finally, you can do them at will. These moves must become second nature to you because these are the motions that a lot of fighting games use. Also, get a feel for these moves in practice mode, where you are not being concerned with being attacked by an opponent.

Since you're using a stick now, you can take advantage of this by learning to "piano" moves. For instance, if you're throwing a fireball with Ryu, on a pad, you can only hit one button at a time (well, unless you play Tekken style and use your index and middle finger instead of your thumbs). What you should be doing is this: do the fireball motion, but instead of just pressing one button, you should use your ring, middle, and index fingers to hit all 3 punch buttons . The motion with your fingers is kinda like the motion you would do if you were bored and rapping your fingers on a desk in rapid succession.

Here is a link with some excellent players from Japan, with the camera on the players themselves
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q_BEl4iZlj0&mode=related&search=

watch Tsuji's right hand and notice what he does. This is what you should do. The reason for this is because the computer reads the input as hitting 6 button presses (1 for when you press down on each of the punch buttons, and 1 for when you release the button, for a total of 6 button presses) instead of just one. What this means is that you have 6 chances of doing the move instead of just the one or two you would have if you just hit one button. More chances means a greater likelihood that the move will come out. This is especially great for when you dont care what strength the move comes out as as long as it comes out (e.g., Ryu throws a jab fireball and the opponent jumps at you. In that moment, it doesnt really matter with what strength dragon punch you hit them with as long as you hit them). It may feel unnatural and unnecessasry at first, but mastering this input means that you will execute moves with much greater accuracy and frequency. This will build yet another foundation for you.

Once you are confident in your technique, the final step is to play against an opponent. As you play, you should be focusing on what your opponent is doing and what you can do, so you dont really have time to focus on whether or not you are properly dragon punching (or whatever move you are trying to do). This is the true test of how far you have progressed: can you do these moves, on reaction, without thinking, and in clutch moments, during a match? The match doesnt lie. It will tell you what you have improved on and what you still need work on. Continue to refine your execution until you can dedicate your entire attention to focusing on your opponent.

Good luck, I hope you do well

[Kyokuji]

My problem is that I keep switching hand positions so my progress gets slowed.
So far, the two where I can do moves most consistently are pencil style with all my fingers out and my thumb/first two fingers on the ball, and wineglass. Wineglass destroys my wrist/knuckles though. I don't know how people use it for extended periods of time.

It's pretty frustrating. I mean, how long it takes you to get used to it completely depends on what level you were at before. I'm used to being able to walk forward and psychic DP stuff consistently, and hit confirm off jabs and shit, and now I can't even super consistently off a fierce hit.

[Someones]

I dont use a stick, but i think i have a similar experience with the EA skate (lol) :rolleyes:
When you start playing, you cant do nothing, always worried about obstacles and stuff, but after a 15 hours you can do everything without blinkin an eye! It just feels natural! So i guess you should do like SF3TSguy said. Just play a lot until it gets into your person. After that i think that should be easy to pull off the motions. :wgrin:

[RLP]

I used my Hori Arcade stick for the 360 a couple of days ago and i kinda got the hang of it, but i still need much more practice =)

[OJ4]

it didnt take me long to get used to the stick, like a few weeks after i got my stick. i personally find it better, but its all in what you feel comfortable with. i know two ppl who cant use the joystick but are good using the pad.

[Doc Holliday]

Your mistake was getting an Hrap as your first stick, have fun doing dragon punches on that thing. This is America, and our arcades use HAPP.

HRAP2 was my first stick. Jap sticks FTW. Don't want to have to inject steriods into my asscheeck just so I can throw that HAPP stick around effortlessly.



And OP, you'll get used to it. Took me about a month and I was consistently hitting stuff. Once you get good enough with a stick, you'll never dream of using a pad again. And to think that I was a pad user that laughed at people that said that same thing to me...

[miKK]

Your mistake was getting an Hrap as your first stick, have fun doing dragon punches on that thing. This is America, and our arcades use HAPP.

Happ ftw

[malik11]

Once you've done this, start working on your motions (e.g., fireball, dragon punch, tiger knee, half circle, 360, etc...)

Careful...Those motions are important to know in the end, but practising them exclusively could leave the player with a bias toward those fluid motions and retard the learning of the simple and repetitive motions required of say Tekken, should that ever become an issue for the player (although, like Kyokuji described, there are the dash motions and the like in the same games that also necessitate the fluid circular and DP motions). This may have been a problem for me, in switching from playing Tekken games with a pad to with an arcade stick controller, after practising for a long time with an arcade stick in SF games. In conclusion, I think within the restriction of dedication to using arcade sticks exclusively in place of a pad (Happ-style or candy-style, but only one of the two types. Also, the importance of this dedication cannot be discounted), variety and moderation should yield the greatest results.

To contribute to the pool of statistics, I believe I began my transition from pads to arcade sticks in around April of 2006, and at the present day I think I am at least as proficient in making the fluid SF motions with an arcade stick as I was with a pad, and possibly moreso. My ability to make the repetitive cartesian inputs of Tekken games seems to still be greater with a DualShock than with an arcade stick, but I've been trying this enthusiastically only as of quite recently, and, generally, my adaptation has likely been slower than average.

[Warrior's Dreams]

Careful...Those motions are important to know in the end, but practising them exclusively could leave the player with a bias toward those fluid motions and retard the learning of the simple and repetitive motions required of say Tekken, should that ever become an issue for the player (although, like Kyokuji described, there are the dash motions and the like in the same games that also necessitate the fluid circular and DP motions).

Thats a fair criticism. Obviously I'm coming from a capcom background. I dont really know much about Tekken. What are important motions to practice then?

[erikstanton]

Since you're using a stick now, you can take advantage of this by learning to "piano" moves. For instance, if you're throwing a fireball with Ryu, on a pad, you can only hit one button at a time (well, unless you play Tekken style and use your index and middle finger instead of your thumbs). What you should be doing is this: do the fireball motion, but instead of just pressing one button, you should use your ring, middle, and index fingers to hit all 3 punch buttons . The motion with your fingers is kinda like the motion you would do if you were bored and rapping your fingers on a desk in rapid succession.


i dont think you should learn pianos for fireballs. just learn to do them normally, and use piano for reversals where it doesnt matter which input it takes, or supers that dont matter which input they take either. i wouldnt count on depending on piano to do a hadouken, and maybe do the wrong one. just my thoughts.

[TingBoy]

i dont think you should learn pianos for fireballs. just learn to do them normally, and use piano for reversals where it doesnt matter which input it takes, or supers that dont matter which input they take either. i wouldnt count on depending on piano to do a hadouken, and maybe do the wrong one. just my thoughts.

A better option would be to piano/drum 1 button multiple times for hadoukens or whatever, like what Tsuji was doing in the youtube video posted by tsguy

[malik11]

Thats a fair criticism. Obviously I'm coming from a capcom background. I dont really know much about Tekken. What are important motions to practice then?

Actually, you know something? Since I made that last comment I seem to have reached my limit on compatibility with arcade stick controllers for Tekken. Of course, tekken involves a lot of sidestepping and dashing, and that's what I meant. This took a bit of adaptation for me but it turns out that a DP motion takes far more practise to learn with a stick. I still actually have remarkable trouble rapidly tilting the level up or to the left. Something must be wrong with me, or maybe I'm just weird that way. :sweat: Hahaha

[deadfrog]

The #1 reason I switched: d-pads give you blisters. :wasted:

[Unreallystic]

I'm so anti-SRK with this. I build sticks cause it was cool, but frankly they feel HORRIBLE. I've trained on them before, and I can perform 'just fine' on them, but I have yet to see anything 'better' on them outside of 360 speed and the button layout *so much easier to RC and wave dash*, but once you get used to it on a pad layout, I don't see why change. Pads for one are consistent...I can pick up any PS2 pad and do what I was trying to do. With stix there are different 'spots' for registering directions, different levels of bounce back, etc. Maybe because I have big hands its different for me...I have no problem doing Storm's Lightning Strike in MvC2 with my thumb. I still can't do the index/middle setup on a pad. I'll do it to mash something, but my hands have been using pads since like 89.
- :bluu:

[Sexperienced.]

i agree 100% with unreallystic

to answer Shin_Shinyuken question, i cant use sanwa, happ, siemitsu (sp) sticks... even if i practiced for 10 years i still wouldnt be able to use them efficiently. i have trouble pulling off regular fireballs, i cant dash consistently on the left side and i have a hard time doing some specials on the right...

but if you gave me the old small black ball-top type euro sticks i can do anything easily, without practice... i find doing 720's with zangief just as easy as doing fireball with ryu with these sticks. the problem is, these sticks are so rare i've only used 2 in my life.... and they're extremely hard to find.

[Kyokuji]

i cant use sanwa, happ, siemitsu (sp) sticks... even if i practiced for 10 years i still wouldnt be able to use them efficiently.

It's probably the square gate that's messing you up. It allows for you to get moves out with a lot less force, but it means you need to know the motions really well since there's no real restrictor to guide you. So far, every hold I've tried has left me struggling to DP in one direction or the other because of my how my wrist/hand is angled and where my thumb is.

[Shin00bi]

I was officially 'converted' when I managed to do a plain ol' ShunGokuSatsu with Akuma in Alpha 3 at the arcade. As my execution started to become more level with how good I was at the SNES and PS1 dpads it was a down-hill battle. I quickly realized I could use characters like Zangief, and also execute Akuma's super ground fb (IE double-half-circles), with about 80% more consistency.

When it came to modding my first stick, I opted for a standard Seimitsu (one of the original 6-button redoctane boxes was used). I got rid of that controller for the most part, but I kept the Seimitsu, and will be using that same beaten-up stick for my next personal controller.

If you can, try to play competitively at arcades, that definitely keeps the dream alive. It may help to keep in mind, that the game is simply easier overall, with a stick.

Quick Edit:


but if you gave me the old small black ball-top type euro sticks i can do anything easily, without practice... i find doing 720's with zangief just as easy as doing fireball with ryu with these sticks. the problem is, these sticks are so rare i've only used 2 in my life.... and they're extremely hard to find.

I could be completely off, but is it possible that this (http://happcontrols.com/joysticks/506084112.htm) or this (http://happcontrols.com/joysticks/5060841125r.htm)is what you're looking for? I don't know how if it would have to be modded for 8-way though (if it did, that's a simple micro-switch swap in theory).

[ulovemikeroch]

Quick Edit:



I could be completely off, but is it possible that this (http://happcontrols.com/joysticks/506084112.htm) or this (http://happcontrols.com/joysticks/5060841125r.htm)is what you're looking for? I don't know how if it would have to be modded for 8-way though (if it did, that's a simple micro-switch swap in theory).

More like this I guess.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=136941

[Sexperienced.]

it looked more like this.

http://www.amusementcaterers.com/images/317_joystick.JPG

it felt like a perfect 360 and had the smallest throw i've ever used... this stick had to be made before 2000 possibly in the mid 90's. i cant explain why it felt like a perfect 360 stick because 360 didnt exist back then, (i couldnt hear or feel any microswitches, bumps... et). the last time i used a stick like this was over 4 years ago in a kebab shop. i asked the shop owner if he wanted to sell the machine, he said he didnt need cabinet but he didnt own it so he gave me the suppliers phone number... i called a month later because i didnt have the money for the entire cabinet at the time (thinking back in hindsight i should've just asked for the sticks).. unluckily for me he sold it to someone else and he has absolutely no idea who he sold it to. i even offered him money just to find the current owner.

the stick was so perfect i'd be willing to pay at least $400 for the stick alone if i find it again.

playing on the left and right side felt just as good. my 360's and 720's were timed perfectly without practice, combos into supers were too easy with any character (i was playing ST at the time)... i completed the game on the hardest level with 6 different charcters without losing a round.

and here i am still struggling with the sticks at my local arcade. i couldnt even execute one 360 with zangief in 2 rounds.

[kesh!]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm moving from a bat top to a ball top, American to japanese stick. The beginning wasn't fun. I found myself making exaggerated movements when I didn't need to. When I started to slow down and actually feel the stick (and NOT get frustrated at me not playing at my best) I started doing better than I did with my American stick.

[BlaQ]

SF3TSguy, great post earlier, and I noticed on the link you posted that the guy who was playing feilong had a modified wineglass hold on the stick. Kind of like pencil combined with wineglass. My main problem was that I was used to HAPP style pencil, but I see the usefulness of wineglass style. So with the combination of both like that I think you've given me the courage to take up stick for keeps. Thanks.

[Warrior's Dreams]

SF3TSguy, great post earlier, and I noticed on the link you posted that the guy who was playing feilong had a modified wineglass hold on the stick. Kind of like pencil combined with wineglass. My main problem was that I was used to HAPP style pencil, but I see the usefulness of wineglass style. So with the combination of both like that I think you've given me the courage to take up stick for keeps. Thanks.

I'm happy it was useful for you. Glad I could help.

[Shin00bi]

Reply mostly to Sexperienced:

How about this quote from another thread (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=136941)? Not that it makes the stick itself any easier to find. The original stick pictured in the link also seems to match.

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/k-kowal/Joystick/Universal%20Inductive%20Controller/

splendid joystick to shmups, octagonal restrictors, short throw (5,5mm) fast engage (2,5-3,5mm), imperishable - joy forever.
in fighters - easily records movements QCF, HCB, fast dash, IAD, but UIC hits in opposite direction near centring to center.
and it is ugly :P

I have 3 I modified it balttop sanwa

PCB has 4 potentiometers, 2 control of axis X and Y. third potentiometer regulates mode 4/8 way. 4 be not able to identify which causes exactly.

You MIGHT want to consider: The stick pictured here: (it seems to be a very similar style, aside from the grip-area) http://happcontrols.com/joysticks/50275500.htm -- 50-2760-10 -- 8-Way Subminiature Joystick w/Concave Shaft. If you're willing to go through hell and high water for the stick you showed a picture of, perhaps it's worth checking out the substitute. If it feels about right, you could even take a ball-top of your choice, and attach it to the top of the shaft.

I think that will be an experimental stick I'll make somewhere down the road.

[Sexperienced.]

Shin00bi, i'll eventually buy that at some point. from what i recall the base of the stick to the top of ball had to be no more than 7cm.

when was that suzo stick made if you dont mind me asking?

[Shin00bi]

Shin00bi, i'll eventually buy that at some point. from what i recall the base of the stick to the top of ball had to be no more than 7cm.

when was that suzo stick made if you dont mind me asking?

Not sure when it was made, but there's a brief wiki article here (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Joysticks#Suzo_Inductive_Joystick)

I went to suzo.com, and looked through their joystick catalog (http://suzo.com/cataloguefiles/20.pdf). The Universal STC Joysticks may be what you're looking for. Interestingly enough there's also an item listed as 'Eurostyle Joystick' but it's a flat-bat-top.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

On my stick, in terms of 3S, doing Ibuki's Raida (hcb+p) is so damn easy, but how come when I try to do Gouki's hcb fireball, or Ryu's hcf kick, it's so hard. Like I have to really go around all the edges and crap for it to come out, so I have trouble comboing Ryu's hcf kick.

Is it the stick, or the game?

[exuf]

On my stick, in terms of 3S, doing Ibuki's Raida (hcb+p) is so damn easy, but how come when I try to do Gouki's hcb fireball, or Ryu's hcf kick, it's so hard. Like I have to really go around all the edges and crap for it to come out, so I have trouble comboing Ryu's hcf kick.

Is it the stick, or the game?

Don't quote me on this one but from what I've found in 3S, some characters have easier half-circles than others, I guess a good enough example would be Dudley's MGB compared to Chun-Li's Hanzanshou (Might've spelled that one wrongly).

With Dudley's, I've found that you can get away with doing the Forward, Down and Back commands only, whether you hit Down-Forward and Down-Back doesn't really seem to matter, as for Chun-Li's move, it seems that you can get away with Down-Foward, Down, Down-Back, Back and it will still go off.

I probably should've just said "It's the game" but eh, got carried away there, bit new to sticks myself so I spent ages scratching my head over the same issue you had.

[Spinning Beat]

no homo to this topic title

[Kyokuji]

For those of you using pencil style or a variant, do you keep your thumb on top of the ball or sort of on the right side? Do you use your ring finger at all? I find I can't keep my thumb on top or I end up relying too much on it since I was on a pad for most of my life.

I find that I can't do DPs/supers consistently without my pinky under the ball for support. I also still have tons of trouble DPing consistently going right. I have like 99.9% accuracy on the left because I can tweak my wrist and get the motion out really fast, but I can't do the same on the right. I have trouble with half circles going in that direction too, so I think I'm not angling my wrist/hand right or something.

How do you hit :hcf: from holding :db:? I can't do it like 90% of the time.

I never had any trouble with pads because there was only one way to hold them, but there are like 5 billion different ways to hold a stick and not all of them are ideal.

[Sexperienced.]

Not sure when it was made, but there's a brief wiki article here (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Joysticks#Suzo_Inductive_Joystick)

I went to suzo.com, and looked through their joystick catalog (http://suzo.com/cataloguefiles/20.pdf). The Universal STC Joysticks may be what you're looking for. Interestingly enough there's also an item listed as 'Eurostyle Joystick' but it's a flat-bat-top.

I think I've found the stick i'm looking for, it could be one of 2 types. either an MCA stick or a Suzo Rotterdam Black Joystick.

getting the mca's isnt a problem but these particular suzo's are damn near impossible to get.

http://www.highway.net.au/img_parts/ss_4235_1.jpg
http://www.highway.net.au/img_parts/ss_4235_2.jpg
http://www.highway.net.au/img_parts/ss_4235_3.jpg
http://www.highway.net.au/img_parts/ss_4235_4.jpg

looks somewhat similar to the suzo inductives.

[True Grave]

I think I've found the stick i'm looking for, it could one of 2 types. either an MCA stick or a Suzo Rotterdam Black Joystick.

getting the mca's isnt a problem but these particular suzo's are damn near impossible to get.

http://www.highway.net.au/img_parts/ss_4235_1.jpg
http://www.highway.net.au/img_parts/ss_4235_2.jpg
http://www.highway.net.au/img_parts/ss_4235_3.jpg
http://www.highway.net.au/img_parts/ss_4235_4.jpg

looks somewhat similar to the suzo inductives.

That one in the pics looks a lot like an MCA.

[hadouking]

I'm in the exact same situation. I've been playing Third Strike religiously for the past few months and finally decided to get a HRAP 2 and the square gate is driving me crazy. I'm gonna order the Sanwa 8 gate and try that out.

I'm pretty good/quick with the controller since I've used one all of my life, so it's really frustrating to lose to the computer on 3 stars when I know I could easily waste them with a controller. But I'm going to stick with it for sure, I really want to get good with the stick, and like I said hopefully the octagonal gate will help.

[Yeton]

For those of you using pencil style or a variant, do you keep your thumb on top of the ball or sort of on the right side? Do you use your ring finger at all? I find I can't keep my thumb on top or I end up relying too much on it since I was on a pad for most of my life.

I find that I can't do DPs/supers consistently without my pinky under the ball for support. I also still have tons of trouble DPing consistently going right. I have like 99.9% accuracy on the left because I can tweak my wrist and get the motion out really fast, but I can't do the same on the right. I have trouble with half circles going in that direction too, so I think I'm not angling my wrist/hand right or something.

How do you hit :hcf: from holding :db:? I can't do it like 90% of the time.

I never had any trouble with pads because there was only one way to hold them, but there are like 5 billion different ways to hold a stick and not all of them are ideal.

Lol, consciously describing something that 's become so automatic is really difficult. But anyway, pencil style? You mean like pinching the balltop between index finger and thumb? If so, yeah, I use that one. My thumb tends to rest on the side of the balltop at 4 o'clock and I keep the edge of my hand and little finger planted in the same place on the stick's base at all times, as I found (after several years of experimentation) that it helped me become more consistent with some rolling motions. I didn't used to use my ring finger for SF or KOF, but since playing VF4 I've started resting it on top of stick's shaft to help guide the stick thru some of Akira's more complicated motions.

Anyway, that's just the way I do things. I don't think any two people use sticks alike. I remember when I first started using sticks almost exactly eight years ago, it was such a frustrating experience playing a game you're used to playing on a controller. It'll take you a few weeks or months to adjust, but once you've gotten used to things you'll never go back.

[Kyokuji]

Yeah, that's why I made a similar request on the video forum. It's easier to just show someone how to do it rather than explain it.

When I DP or half circle on the left side, I tweak my wrist from / to a horizontal position like __ because it makes it easier to do the Z motion faster, but then I have trouble getting circles out while my wrist's like that. Should I be bringing it in more like \ instead?

[Se7in]

I'm going through the exact same thing. I got my first stick, an HRAP 2 also, for Xmas and I'm still getting used to it. I have a question though:

If I play some matches competitively anytime soon, should I pick up the controller since I'm better with it right now, or should I go with the stick, and completely avoid the controller?

Will using the controller set me back, or will only how much I use the stick matter?

[Warrior's Dreams]

I'm going through the exact same thing. I got my first stick, an HRAP 2 also, for Xmas and I'm still getting used to it. I have a question though:

If I play some matches competitively anytime soon, should I pick up the controller since I'm better with it right now, or should I go with the stick, and completely avoid the controller?

Will using the controller set me back, or will only how much I use the stick matter?

Personally, I would leave the stick at home, only because if you are playing competitively and arent used to the stick, you are already giving your opponent a handicap because your execution simply wont be there and that is a very fatal thing because as mentioned earlier, you cant win matches if you cant do moves.

As for the controller setting you back, I imagine it will a little bit, because the muscle memory for using a controller would be different from that of using a stick (because you are using different physical motions entirely). I would practice up with a pad and make sure you have your reflexes down with that before you play competitively. Then, once that date is over, you can go back and readjust your reflexes to the stick. You'll be set back a little bit, but just remember and start doing the things you practiced with the stick again and it will come back to you.

[BlaQ]

I'm happy it was useful for you. Glad I could help.

Yeah I tried out my alternate holding of the stick. It's hard and it gives my finger a callous there but its really easier now to play on stick. I'm not up to my pad scrub skills yet but I should hopefully be there soon when I buy a stick. Wish me luck :D

[Arxinal]

I just got my first stick Hori EX2 i'm definitely feeling the rust not playing in arcades in over a decade but I already like the feel of it better now I just need to improve.

[Ex0dUs27]

i see what you guys are talking about. i got mine (My first stick: HRAP2) earlier this week and just as some of you have said, doing DP on that thing is impossible for me. i been playin mvc2 about 20 mins a day with it though, im going to go straight sticks from here on out for fighting games. hopefully in a month or two ill be used to it.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

i see what you guys are talking about. i got mine (My first stick: HRAP2) earlier this week and just as some of you have said, doing DP on that thing is impossible for me. i been playin mvc2 about 20 mins a day with it though, im going to go straight sticks from here on out for fighting games. hopefully in a month or two ill be used to it.

DPs are easy on square gates. You tap forward, then move the stick down, and then just slide it into the corner. The motion would be like a Z. Well, that's how I do it on 3s, the input commands might be a bit different. I have more trouble doing FBs.

I have a T5 stick, almost 3 months now, but probably only about 1 month worth of practice. My execution is getting there, but still need to work on comboing supers. Not fast enough yet, or I haven't found that sweet spot yet. :sad:

[noober]

on comps does anyone else hold it wine glass style? lol

like 2 fingers in back 2 in front. it seems i can move faster like that just double quarter circles are harder like i have to slow down to do it. but im getting better at double quarter circle motions.

[baby jesus]

i see what you guys are talking about. i got mine (My first stick: HRAP2) earlier this week and just as some of you have said, doing DP on that thing is impossible for me. i been playin mvc2 about 20 mins a day with it though, im going to go straight sticks from here on out for fighting games. hopefully in a month or two ill be used to it.

you should switch the square gate to a octagon gate. i personaly think its much better and u feel all the corners and less slip in ur motions

[noober]

for dps i always did forward - quarter circle on comps
then i learned that i can forward diagonal

but im not sure what method to stick with.

[Warrior's Dreams]

Yeah I tried out my alternate holding of the stick. It's hard and it gives my finger a callous there but its really easier now to play on stick. I'm not up to my pad scrub skills yet but I should hopefully be there soon when I buy a stick. Wish me luck :D

I hope that however you hold the joystick, it is comfortable to you and not abusing to your fingers. It shouldnt hurt your hands.

[Sexperienced.]

i was told suzo inductives were made 20+ years ago, thats crazy.

[noober]

would it be wise to use both a happ and a square gate(wii stick) . like to switch back and forth.

my main focus is getting better with a happ (im not that new to it, but i still need some getting use to for double qcf motions. )

does any one else here play with both.

[impact24]

I have a suggestion for padplayers finding it difficult to DP using a japanese stick with a square gate. Try ending the motion by feeling the down-right corner of the gate. The result is, your motion looks like drawing a small sized capital "Z" on the lower side of the joystick.

if I remember right, some old japanese instruction panels on cabinets for fighters used this "Z" to connote a dragon punch motion. That's also pretty much how I do dragon punches with accuracy. Once you get used to it, you'll probably just push the joystick a little to the right after hitting down before you press the button.

As for the topic: I've been a pad player for most of my life. I've played in the arcades just as long, but I was never as good in the arcade as I was in the pad (I was able to practice more with the pad at home). It was just when I got my HRAP2 that I was able to practice seriously for a long time with the stick, and like most others I haven't looked back.

I'd say it took me at least a month to be on par with the pad...and maybe another month to do things I could never do properly (or do at *all*) with the pad.

If there's one thing I feel that the pad has an advantage over the stick, it's double tapping. This includes IAD in GG.

edit: Oops, I missed Shinkuu Tatsumaki's post above which is basically what I just said regarding DPs. Anyway, this should at least affirm that it's a proven method.

[Kyokuji]

If there's one thing I feel that the pad has an advantage over the stick, it's double tapping. This includes IAD in GG.

I have a hell of a time dashing left quickly or IADing on stick. I can use my thumb but that means taking my fingers off the stick. I've settled on just jerking my wrist to the left while tapping lightly with my thumb, but it's nowhere near as natural as it is going right. Stuff like dashing and stopping quickly or repeated small movements are very difficult for me on stick.

I never had trouble doing anything on pad, but I've been hacking away at stick for almost half a year now, and I'm still not close to where I was on pad. I guess it depends what level you were at in the first place and how much prior experience you had with using them. Everybody always uses grapplers as the argument for sticks being better, but I never had trouble doing walking 360s and whatnot on pad. Sticks you can spin faster, yes, but on a pad, there's no way you'll accidentally miss one of the directions.

Ball tops seem to be built for holding from the top or the bottom, but as a pad player, and someone who used bat tops when I was younger, my hand naturally gravitates to holding it from the side no matter what I do. It's a problem for me because my thumb instinctively tries to do everything on its own. So I'll be trying to buffer supers and instead of moving the joystick say, qcb-hcf with my arm/wrist, I'll try to get the motion out with my thumb on the ball, which gets me a whole lot of jack shit. Most people keep their thumb to the right of the ball as well, but mine keeps moving itself back near the top, so it can pretend the damn thing is a pad again. I've been trying to un-train my muscle memory in this regard, but it's sort of feeling like wasted effort all these months later.

Sticks may give better freedom of movement, but they also create more room for error. Consistency issues seem to crop up more with them. People always cite this and that as examples, but I never had trouble with anything on a good 6-button pad. Maybe what I need is a circular gate or something.

[grokslam]

stick didnt take long to get used to. i hated the finger burn id get from controllers so i went out and got a stick. spent a couple days with it. I play melty blood: act cadenza verb. mainly and i love joy setup so much better because of how much faster u can input buttons unlike a pad where you can only input as fast as your thumb moves.

[Tim Static]

I never used a sick before.

(grammar check on the title of thread :rolleyes: )

[theprodigy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJLTa_eBLAo

I would recommend sticking with square gates on jap sticks. I use it like in the vid, not really holding the stick but guiding it with my thumb and finger tips - I kinda let the stick return to neutral after each movement. The Z movement for dp is really handy as is :db::df::db::df: . Both movements are easy to master because of the square gate.

[Hazzerone]

I just recently bought a Hori Real Arcade Pro 2 stick, and it is my first stick ever. (I've played CvS2 & 3S for two years with PS2 controller). Of course with any change it feels different, I play a little worse on my stick than my controller. I'm just so used to having all my options a few centimeters away from each other, I guess. :P

But my question is, how long did it take you to get used to using sticks? I'd like an idea of how long it takes one to fully make the transition and be comfortable with sticks versus controllers. Even if you started at the arcade and never had a "getting used to period" I would still like your insight to sticks versus controllers.

Thanks :)

It took me a few months to get my skill level on sticks above my skill level on pads.

Once you start using a stick and get used to it you'll look back and wonder how you used to play on a pad! :rofl:

[erikstanton]

It took me a few months to get my skill level on sticks above my skill level on pads.

Once you start using a stick and get used to it you'll look back and wonder how you used to play on a pad! :rofl:

haha seriously. when i first got my stick i couldnt do supers -____-. my brother and i were first learning 3s and it sucked not being able to super, but after a while it just got so much easier.

[A.C]

i haven't played a pad in YEARS. but i'm telling you right now, i have ZERO doubt my dragon punch accuracy would improve with a pad... especially on ST.

3S - i can throw DP's until the cows come home.
ST - its a total crap shoot.

IMHO the amount of time it takes to completely transition from pad to stick is greatly influenced by the game in question. some games require much stricter input & as such require a longer learning curve.

[impact24]

<snip>

IMHO the amount of time it takes to completely transition from pad to stick is greatly influenced by the game in question. some games require much stricter input & as such require a longer learning curve.

This is very true. In KoF for example, it's much easier and "smoother" to do supers in the later games than it is for the earlier games. I play KoFXI and KoF98, and I sometimes have to spend a few minutes "adjusting" from XI to 98 since I could swear they require a different way to do the same motion. Just doing the super by itself isn't hard at all...but sticking it into a combo makes you see the difference in the effort required.

The frustrating part is knowing that I could do those things easily before, but since I was "spoiled" by easier controls of later games...it got harder to do nice stuff in the older games. Hope I made sense.

[Kyokuji]

You have to do the motion slower in 98 or it doesn't come out, and you have to make sure you hit every direction with the exact same rhythm. Inputs are a pain in the ass in that game.

[Ex0dUs27]

im a little more reliable on my motion commands after a month of training. im going to switch out some parts when mah lizard lick shipment comes in. got buttons, bubble top and octagon.

[impact24]

You have to do the motion slower in 98 or it doesn't come out, and you have to make sure you hit every direction with the exact same rhythm. Inputs are a pain in the ass in that game.

I think you're spot on. I noticed myself that I can't do motions as fast as XI and expect them to come out all the time. I think having to have a consistent rhythm in hitting the inputs explains why I feel that 98 is "picky" sometimes.

Back to the topic, if I may suggest....I think 3S would be a good game to practice motions when shifting from a pad and getting down the overall feel of a stick.

[theprodigy]

I think 3S would be a good game to practice motions when shifting from a pad and getting down the overall feel of a stick.

Yep, its a good start. I played a few different games with different characters to mix things up a bit. Different games, different motions, different timing. It all helped me get up to speed with a stick in a couple of months. I can't even use pads now my thumbs just cannot move fast enough!

[Carmen]

You have to do the motion slower in 98 or it doesn't come out, and you have to make sure you hit every direction with the exact same rhythm. Inputs are a pain in the ass in that game.

Ahh, thanks, I really wanted SOME confirmation in that. You see the guys I've played KOF have played it for a long time, so when I ask them they say always 'there is no problem for me!' :rofl: Yes, the hardest part is buffering DMs into combos for me too. I'm glad the best advise is to just keep doing it slow until it becomes second nature.

I ESPECIALLY have a hard time doing 2x QCF motions in KOF 97.

I've read all of this talk about 'shortcuts' in KOF (short motions). Are any recommended? KOF is a little strange, in '97 it seems I can do the same DM with three totally different combinations (for example, Mary's Splash Rose can be done with 2x HCB+A/C or QCF,HCB+A/C... huh? I swear I remember also doing 2xHCF+A/C as well!)

[azmun]

I would still like your insight to sticks versus controllers.

Congrats on getting your first stick. You've made a very good choice getting the Hori RAP.

I'm curious to know why you decided to make the switch in the first place? I've seen players that use pads extremely well. And to be honest, I don't think that switching from pads to sticks will necessarily improve your game and make you a better player.

That said, I use both sticks and pads. I prefer Japanese style hardware (sanwa/seimitsu) but occasionally switch to my US custom stick (happ competition) for a change. In terms of pads, I find the original saturn and psx pads quite responsive, comfortable and easy to use (efficient in executing moves/combos).

I believe it's easier to learn sticks first than vice versa. But it shouldn't take you too long to get to the same level as you were using pads. Just be patient and practice continuously.

[EvilSamurai]

You have to do the motion slower in 98 or it doesn't come out, and you have to make sure you hit every direction with the exact same rhythm. Inputs are a pain in the ass in that game.

Pre-Garou SNK games are too picky about inputs. The only exceptions are the Last Blade series and some of the Fatal Fury/Samurai Shodown games.

The CPS1 SF2 games had much more lenient inputs than the CPS2 ones but I still prefer Super Turbo over all SF2/other fighting games. Hyper Fighting may be slightly more balanced but I don't like the insanely high damage and redizzy combos in it.

[Hazzerone]

I've noticed if I play, for example, Fatal Fury Special, I have to hear all the "clicks" of the said inputs for the HSDM's.

This is the probably the only up-side of having a stick that makes a clicking sound whenever I input my motions! :rofl:

[Carmen]

Hmm, interesting. Are some combinations harder to pull off than others in older SNK games, or is everything difficult?

Its weird, I can do 2xQCFs easily in '96, but not in '97. I wonder how '98 compares to those two.

[A.C]

The CPS1 SF2 games had much more lenient inputs than the CPS2


I agree. Regarding input commands, it is my observation that:

(lenient) CPS3 > CPS1 > CPS2 (strict)

I suppose if a person can hone their skills on CPS2 then they can/will have success on any fighter. However the same cannot be said for the other engines. I think if you train on the easier games, it sets you up for failure.

At least that is my 1st hand experience. I play/enjoy/execute most any CPS1/3 game. However I am frustrated out of my mind when I occasionally find myself playing a CPS2 title. I almost always feel like dumping my stick for a pad.

[impact24]

Hmm, interesting. Are some combinations harder to pull off than others in older SNK games, or is everything difficult?

Its weird, I can do 2xQCFs easily in '96, but not in '97. I wonder how '98 compares to those two.

In a word, yes...although it depends on the move at least in my experience.

For example in 97, I find it easy to do this combo with Blue Mary:

jump D, standing C (2 hits), Forward A, QCFHCB A

....but in 98, I find it harder to do for some reason. I may be totally wrong, but I suspect that the classic snk DM motion is stricter to do in 98.

About 2xQCFs, I don't have problems with in 98...but I simply can't cancel them off a low light attack, and only sometimes off a low hard attack. This in contrast to later SF and KoF games where it's almost like second nature.

I usually cancel into 2xQCFs motions in 98 from a 2hit normal when I need to be consistent (e.g. Mature standing B).

Sorry, I'm getting a bit OT. But it's comforting to know that there are really some quirkiness with the inputs in the games I mentioned.

[Carmen]

I usually cancel into 2xQCFs motions in 98 from a 2hit normal when I need to be consistent (e.g. Mature standing B).

Sorry, I'm getting a bit OT. But it's comforting to know that there are really some quirkiness with the inputs in the games I mentioned.

No its cool. At least this very interesting to me, as the first (fighting) game I've started seriously playing with a stick is KOF '97 (in preparation to play '98 with some friends!), so I'm trying to determine what is due to my newness with a stick and what is due to the make of the game.

Actually I use Mary, and you're right, that combo comes out very easy in '97 (all of the motions involving some sort of HC do.) I read, and maybe you would like to check this, that the way people get around using that combo in '98 is Close C, Fwd+A, 2xHCB+A/C. Supposedly the Surprise Rose comes out with either QCFHCB, 2xHCB, and 2xHCF... which might be how SNK decided to help players cope with thier weird inconsistant input strictness!

As for 2xQCFs, at least in '97 it seems like luck if they ever come out for me. Its not a big deal, since I only use '97 to practise for '98, but thats why I was wondering how they compared.

[DagV]

i made the change from pads..mostly ps ..and ps2 pads for fighters. to a stick in december. and when it comes to charge charachters i imidiatly improved. but my ryu and other shoto play takes some while to get to the same level.

i got the sf anniversary stick un modded. anyone know if i could greatly improve the response and make it easier to do difficult inputs by modding it ?

[EvilSamurai]

i made the change from pads..mostly ps ..and ps2 pads for fighters. to a stick in december. and when it comes to charge charachters i imidiatly improved. but my ryu and other shoto play takes some while to get to the same level.

i got the sf anniversary stick un modded. anyone know if i could greatly improve the response and make it easier to do difficult inputs by modding it ?

Yes. Mod that sucker straight away.