2 PCB's in one stick - Possible?

[krost]

Before I start, let me make it clear that this isn't "Krost," I'm his brother. I tried making an account (Rybread) and was instantly banned.

I bought a used HRAP3 off eBay. I'm pretty decent with electronics, so putting in a PSX PCB isn't going to be a problem. However, for any of you PROS out there, I'm curious if instead of replacing the USB pcb, could I instead just ADD a PSX PCB, having 2 respective connection options in the end.

I'm thinking if I just add 2 wires to each button (or split the wire off into a Y connection), I could just add one wire to each PCB for every button.

Before anyone asks, I already am familiar with PSX -> USB adapters. I'd prefer to have 2 seperate connections, but if I can't do this, I'll settle with the adapter solution.

Thanks in advance.

[aznchristmas]

With 2 PCBs, both have to have power for it to work. Connect the 5v on both of them with a wire and make sure you never plug both in at the same time.

[James123]

to use your other account just delete your cookies and you wont get the banned screen. im just going to say you have to match grounds and signals to the respected boards. other than that the wiring is just going to be the same.

[jdd1510]

I am also wondering about this. Could I have a Saturn Virtua Stick PCB wired to Sanwa buttons and have a Genesis controller PCB wired to the buttons at the same time for example?

Wouldn't whichever one I am using (Saturn or Genesis) power the controller each time?

[James123]

just find wiring guides for the respected pcbs. find the grounds for each button and wire the ground from one pcb to the other pcb by putting it to the common tab on the micro switch and do the same for signal. i dont know if its really a good idea to wire a 5v from one pad to another but maybe aznchristmas knows more about this then i do

[krost]

I tried clearing my cookies, still get the banned screen.

Thanks for the tips, I completely forgot about the ground. So as long as I connect the common ground from the buttons to the ground on both pcb's, I should be fine. Sounds good. The stick should come in after the new year, I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Thanks again.

[TMO Gaming]

http://joystickvault.com/data/507/medium/dual_PCB_diagram.JPG


Maybe this helps. Can someone step in if I have drawn anything incorrectly. Thanks

[GuymelefX]

I am thinkings in install a PSX PCB in a Real Arcade Pro 3 together with the USB, is posible to make this without separate the actual button wires from the original PCB?
Thanks.

[aznchristmas]

Hey, I didn't want to start a new thread, but I want to make Dual PCBS.

I know that the power has to be connected, but how do you find the 5v or the 3.3v? Is there another name for it like X1 or something? It's not labeled on the T5 PCB or the Xbox SFAC Pad pcb

[TMO Gaming]

you need a multi meter. You can get one at Radio Shack for $12. It has two probes, you touch one probe to one solder point most likely labeled +5 or near a red wire and touch the other probe where you think the ground might be. The multimeter will give you the reading on whether you are correct or not.

[Gasp]

TMO that works correct?
im thinking about doing the same with some happ stick im working on and i was gonna use a grounding bar instead of a direct bridge.

[TMO Gaming]

If I were to do it, I would also put a terminal strip (grounding bar?) between the pcbs. But then I am crazy with the terminal strips and I probably over use them :wgrin:

[Shin00bi]

Here's my question. What's the simplest way to jimmy up a switch so as to idiot-proof the multiple-PCB stick? The above solutions are good for my own personal project, but for obvious reasons, it would be nice to have it more fail-safe set-up.

[TMO Gaming]

Place your xbox and your ps2 far enough away from each other that you couldn't physically have them plugged in simultaneously. :wgrin:

[Shin00bi]

Place your xbox and your ps2 far enough away from each other that you couldn't physically have them plugged in simultaneously. :wgrin:

Guullllate! I knew that solution was in your heart.

Actually, I will have to think about this now, and come up with something.

[pdk]

Here's my question. What's the simplest way to jimmy up a switch so as to idiot-proof the multiple-PCB stick? The above solutions are good for my own personal project, but for obvious reasons, it would be nice to have it more fail-safe set-up.

zip-tie the cords for each console together, there ya go

[Shin00bi]

zip-tie the cords for each console together, there ya go

I was kind of thinking of that. You would zip-tie them together, and also put a sleeve around the cords to make them into one. That'd probably be the easiest way.

[psychochronic]

This thread has helped me a lot. One question remains (this maybe OT), where is the +5V and Ground located on both the Dreamcast PCB and SFAC PCB. I'd like my stick to be 3-port.

[Gasp]

it is off topic and you're completely lazy for not looking for threads

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=113675

[Hellfromabove]

Couldn't you just take the hot wires coming from the cord and just wire to both of those? That would be much easier.

-Tha Hindu

[Shin00bi]

Couldn't you just take the hot wires coming from the cord and just wire to both of those? That would be much easier.

-Tha Hindu

You're talking about the red wire that goes from the 5v directly into the console-cable? Then yeah, you're right.

[Hellfromabove]

You're talking about the red wire that goes from the 5v directly into the console-cable? Then yeah, you're right.

Nice...

-Tha Hindu

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

I tried clearing my cookies, still get the banned screen.

Thanks for the tips, I completely forgot about the ground. So as long as I connect the common ground from the buttons to the ground on both pcb's, I should be fine. Sounds good. The stick should come in after the new year, I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Thanks again.


it bans you because of the IP Address.
just make a new account on a different computer :tup:

[krost]

...Is there a way someone could delete that account name so I could use "Rybread" instead of "Rybread1986" or something equally undesirable?

[osotogari]

I use a DB 25 switch to wire the PCBs to the stick. its vary easy this way and you can have the 2 PCBs hooked up to the systems at the same time.
all you have to do is to switch the switch to A or B, and 1 PCB will always stay on neutral. heres a DB25 switch
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10103&cs_id=1010305&p_id=1352&seq=1&format=2
you can take the switch out from its box, its small enough to easily fit inside a stick.
and put it on the side of the stick from inside out so all you have to do is switch from A to B depending on what system you want to use.
also you can upgrade in the future to a 3,4 or 6 way switch if you want to add more PCBs to the joystick

[krost]

osotagari - Excellent idea. I already have a rough schematic of how I'd do that in my head, but I'm curious if you had made a wiring schematic for reference that you could post up on this thread. If not, that's fine, I think I'll be fine.

Thanks again.

[Shin00bi]

That's awesome. I think I would go with the 4-way.

I'm a single-pcb n00b still, I can't find any guides for using this type of thing on gamepad pcbs.

Edit: I ordered 1 4-way. Hopefully I can make the ultimate stick with it ;)

[WuGgaRoo]

hey i was wondering if this was possible with 3 pcbs?

I am trying to connect my saturn, PSX, and Dreamcast in the same arcade box.... (i already have extra controllers lying around, so id rather use them then buy some adapters)

THANKS!

[GuymelefX]

http://joystickvault.com/data/507/medium/dual_PCB_diagram.JPG


Maybe this helps. Can someone step in if I have drawn anything incorrectly. Thanks

why you must connect a wire between +5v and GND of two PCBS?
simply cut all wires of the stick and buttons and putting new wires for the otrer PCB directly doesn't work?

like this:

http://stifleur.free.fr/connections2.JPG

Other question, the stick (HRAP 3) only have 5 wires, wich is wich?
sorre for my bad english.

[speedsterharry]

why you must connect a wire between +5v and GND of two PCBS?

I have no clue and would really like to know :wink:

Moreover, if the 2 pcbs are powered at the same time, one of them (or both) won't like it...


Other question, the stick (HRAP 3) only have 5 wires, wich is wich?

It's in the Sanwa FAQ but i'll provide a direct link to the connexion diagram:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g217/NiteWalkerGR/Misc%20Pics/sanwakopplingen.jpg

[Shin00bi]

I have no clue and would really like to know :wink:

Moreover, if the 2 pcbs are powered at the same time, one of them (or both) won't like it...

That's why they say not to have both plugged in at the same time...


And don't forget this god-like post: (the answer to my original question regarding an 'idiot-proof' switch set-up.)

I use a DB 25 switch to wire the PCBs to the stick. its vary easy this way and you can have the 2 PCBs hooked up to the systems at the same time.
all you have to do is to switch the switch to A or B, and 1 PCB will always stay on neutral. heres a DB25 switch
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10103&cs_id=1010305&p_id=1352&seq=1&format=2
you can take the switch out from its box, its small enough to easily fit inside a stick.
and put it on the side of the stick from inside out so all you have to do is switch from A to B depending on what system you want to use.
also you can upgrade in the future to a 3,4 or 6 way switch if you want to add more PCBs to the joystick

[GuymelefX]

Thanks, now i'll kill for a perfect guide for add a PSX PCB to the HRAP3, i can't find images of the HRAP3 USB PCB and where the +5v and GND wires go...

Also a tuto for the DB25 (includind where to solder, etc...) will be interesting.

Today add the Seimitsu to the pad, now only need know how to add the PSX PCB to make my perfect stick.

[crackbone]

I have no clue and would really like to know :wink:
Moreover, if the 2 pcbs are powered at the same time, one of them (or both) won't like it...


If you're wiring both PCBs to the buttons/ground at the same time, both sticks have to be powered because it's essentially 1 large circuit. Having 1 unpowered but still connected will lead to the stick not working/acting wonky as the unpowered stick screws up the electrical circuit.
Now, of course, if you wire the PCBs to a switch that only connects to the buttons/ground 1 at a time, then you avoid this issue.



The other thing you can do (which is what I did) is cut both PCB cords and wire them up to a DB9 (or larger depending on what you need).

You solder both PCB's ground and +5V wires to the same pins on the DB9, which ensures both PCBs get power. Then you wire up the rest of the controller wires to different pins, like this:

PIN
1 xbox/ps2 ground
2 xbox +
3 xbox -
4 xbox/ps2 +5V
5 ps2 data
6 ps2 command
7 ps2 att sel
8 ps2 clock
9 ps2 ack

Then you sacrifice a couple of cords and wire them up to connect to the DB9.

More work but clean and absolutely removes the possibility of plugging two in at once!
Here are pics of mine - I wired up the cords to a terminal strip so that I can easily remove/replace the PCBs if I need too, but you could just as easily wire them up directly to the DB9.


http://home.insightbb.com/~jvarisco/stick3.jpg
http://home.insightbb.com/~jvarisco/stick2.jpg

[pdk]

how would you manage to fit the DB 25 stick into the hrap3 easily though?

i'm looking to do the same sort of padhack as rybread and i'm wondering about this, it seems like you'd need to cut out a hole in the faceplate for it

[Toodles]

That's why they say not to have both plugged in at the same time...Something needs to be made clear.
1. Both PCBs should be powered.
2. The power going to the PCBs should only be coming from one console.

If you connect the power and ground lines of the PCBs together, like in TMO's picture, then both PCBs will be powered no matter which cable is plugged in. If you plug in both cables that way, then you're connecting the power lines from two different consoles together, which is a bad idea.

And don't forget this god-like post: (the answer to my original question regarding an 'idiot-proof' switch set-up.)
Wasteful. The only advantage using a "25 pole, single throw" switch like that is if you are using systems that don't use a common ground and you dont know how to get around it. By making sure they're all powered and common ground, you can connect as many PCB's in a stick as you like, and not require any switching of any kind.

[Shin00bi]

Wasteful. The only advantage using a "25 pole, single throw" switch like that is if you are using systems that don't use a common ground and you dont know how to get around it. By making sure they're all powered and common ground, you can connect as many PCB's in a stick as you like, and not require any switching of any kind.

Wasteful? How about personal preference.

My personal #1 reason for wanting to know how to use the switch was to idiot-proof the stick (what if the stick is used in a house with a big family with random-friends who pass through). Some of them might get the funny idea of controlling more than one game at once. You never know. I'm making a stick for a friend, and he'll want to use it on multiple systems (his situation at home currently matches the above potential chaos).

From a buyer's perspective, I think they would rather have a rugged fail-safe multi-platform stick. It's not much more cost in parts either. Especially when you factor in like 3-4 pcbs.

[GuymelefX]

I have a "A" Made in Korea Dual Shock 1.
is it pcb apropiate for make a stick?
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2302/dsc00363st3.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6263/dsc00364gy2.jpg

How connect the ground and the +5v (where is it?) to the usb pcb?

[Shin00bi]

It should be on the other side. You should be able to trace it's connection to a (usually red) wire (the red wire in the main console-cord).

If you need more help with the 5v thingy, post a pic of the other side.

Edit: Ooops. You did post a pic of the otherside lol. The 5v may be hidden by that white flat-wire.

[Toodles]

Wasteful? How about personal preference. It's your stick; do whatever you want with it. But it is wasteful and inelegant.

This may sound rather dickish, and I apologize if it does, but I'm betting that the reason someone might want to go this route is because it is simple. You dont have to know any electronics to understand what those switches do, and how you can use them to connect the stick and buttons to one of two or more selectable PCBs, completely disconnecting it from the others. Simple, and easy to comprehend, and in case of any problems, should be easy for you to troubleshoot because its easier to understand; the switches connect the two points on the PCBs, and the PCB is just a mystical black box that does whatever it needs to. I get that, and I do see the appeal.

The thing is, with a little electronic know-how to understand how the PCB's work, and in particular how it detects the buttons, it becomes silly. With multiple common ground PCBs, there is no need to run two wires for every switch to a box, and then run two wires to each PCB for each switch. For a stick, start, select, and six buttons, thats twelve microswitches, taking up almost all of a DB-25 connector. With two PCB's, thats 6 wired connections for each switch, for 72 wired points; three PCBs, 8 wired connections per switch for 96 wired points. (# of connections=# of microswitches * (number of PCBs+1) * 2). Yuck. That's a rats nest and a half.

With multiple common ground PCBs connected like in TMO's picture, that number drops rapidly. Same 12 microswitches with two PCBs takes 26 connections. Three PCBs: 38. (That's counting the ground line that is daisy chained on all of the switches as one.)


My personal #1 reason for wanting to know how to use the switch was to idiot-proof the stick (what if the stick is used in a house with a big family with random-friends who pass through). Some of them might get the funny idea of controlling more than one game at once. You never know. I'm making a stick for a friend, and he'll want to use it on multiple systems (his situation at home currently matches the above potential chaos).
How is adding more things to the stick for the human to do (the system select switch) going to make things more idiot-proof?

There's no reason the stick can't be made protected against the possibility of connecting to multiple consoles. I haven't been bringing it up because some people's eyes glaze over when it is mentioned.

All of the PCBs in the setup described must be powered, right? But you only want that power to come from one source, right? So, you have a ton of options to make that happen. For a two PCB setup, a toggle switch can be used to select with PCB cable is supplying the power. Better yet, if they are all 5v systems (no PSX or PS2), you can skip the switch altogether and have each power line from the console going through a diode. viola, for 10 cents in parts, the consoles and PCBs will be protected against someone pulling a stupid.


From a buyer's perspective, I think they would rather have a rugged fail-safe multi-platform stick.I would agree. The problem is you're assuming that our setup is somehow not rugged or fail-safe.

It's not much more cost in parts either. Especially when you factor in like 3-4 pcbs.With the additional wired connections, I'd say it would be more expensive, especially with labor costs. My point is that it is extra work and cost with no benefit over the methods described.

[Gasp]

tape the cords together right near the console plugs to make it literally impossible to plug it into two consoles simultaneously.


ps tell em why you mad toodles

[GuymelefX]

Thanks Shin00bi.

Is this possible???

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/379/dsc00365do0.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/57/dsc00366zw2.jpg

[osotogari]

osotagari - Excellent idea. I already have a rough schematic of how I'd do that in my head, but I'm curious if you had made a wiring schematic for reference that you could post up on this thread. If not, that's fine, I think I'll be fine.

Thanks again.

no I dont have any schematic made. I am really bad at making guides or schematic or anything like it.
I think this is very simple and can easily be don with out any guides . I'll give a quick example of how i did some.

map the pins of the switch/connectors so all PCBs use the same pins, like
Pin1ground - Pin2 Up - Pin3 Down - Pin4 Right - Pin5 Left - Pin6 LP - Pin7 MP and so on
then follow the same set up to wire the pins to the stick.
and dizzy chain the grounds on the stick and use P1 to connection.

for wiring to the switch. You can cut the connectors off and wire it directly to the switch. or make your own connectors or get a DB25 M to M cable and cut it in half, wire the PCB to the cable and connect cable to the switch.

and here's one way I used to put the switch in the stick
get a thin shit of metal or plastic by 2' x 4' make 4 holes on the sides and one in the middle for the switch.
unscrew the switch from its box and screw it back on to the thin metal.
make a hole on the side or the back of the stick big enough for the switch knob to fit and easy to turn.
now use the 4 holes to screw the metal to the stick with the switch on it, going from inside out.

Also you can do this using a DB15 switch you don't have to use DB25.
But It could happen where a pin could Die out on the switch, this happened to me once where 3 pins stopped working. with the DB25 you can change pins to any unused pins if need to.
my sticks uses this set up, I use it a lot jumping from system to system easily without plugging and unplugging wires.
I'll play some VF5 & HF on 360 /xbl and quickly switch to ps3 play some DR on PSN if I see a game on Kaillera I want in, I'll jump in easily by switching to it and my PS2 is on most of the time I am starting to like HNK a bit, when I cant find games I want to join I am killing time with that.
this set up works for my needs not sure how useful it will be for others, I also have my DC and xbox hooked to it but dont use them much.
I have been using the same stick same set up since 1996 never had much problems with it.
hop that helped

[Shin00bi]

Thanks Shin00bi.

Is this possible???

*image-snip*

I can't be 100% sure based off the picture/angle, but see if this pic helps:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/Shin00bi/n00bi-pic.gif

If you have a multi-meter, you can confirm ground, and of course, the other prong will be the hot-wire.

Otherwise, it's simply a really safe bet.

(Apologies for the crappy picture. I did it from a break-room computer at work with ms-paint and not at home).

*snip*

Forgive me for being the newb here. The first person to come up with the switch suggestion was: osotogari

At this point, I haven't actually done anything with multiple pcbs in one stick. I'm trying to figure out the most efficient, clean, and idiot-proof way to do it. I am mostly a DIYer, with the occasional stick made for a friend or two. I'm trying to expand beyond the typical single-pcb stick because people are becoming more in need of that type of set-up.

For one, from what I've read a few times here, is that when you hook up multiple pcbs to one stick, you simply link up the 5v, make sure both PCBs are common ground of course, and "never plug them both in at the same time".

So your method, which you haven't explained in this thread, is it the above, with a 'zip-tie' to prevent dummies from plugging more than one in, or is that method which has a female connector on the outside of the box, which you can plug in various modified-gamepad cords too? If it's the latter, than one could argue the switch-method is more efficient since you never swap out cords...

Aside from your rant, which I'm sure is reasonable, you have not really mentioned which alternate method you're referring to, other than 'our method'. Could you explain or link to an explanation of your better way?

Edit: Thanks for the additional explanation Osotogari!

[infoseeker]

I use a DB 25 switch to wire the PCBs to the stick.

. . . All you have to do is to switch the switch to A or B, and 1 PCB will always stay on neutral.

:tup:

By neutral you mean when both are connected both will have power running through them from their respective sources, but (of course) the buttons will only be working for the PCB switched to on with the db25.

[krost]

Toodles:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/Ryebreadstick/Forums/2pcb.jpg

Pardon the crude image - is this basically what you're asking me to do? Since I will be using a PSX controller, I can't use the diode method (according to your instructions). So, assuming the buttons are all grounded properly and everything, I just bridge the grounds and power from each pcb, and add a switch in between the power sources and the pcb to select which gets power..?

Also, since the PSX pcb is < 5v and the USB is 5v, will there be a problem when I select PSX power? And vice versa - will the PSX pcb have issues with taking 5 volts when I select USB power?

And basically, in the end, it'll LOOK like I'm using a switch-box, but I'm not, for the sake of avoiding a "rat's nest" inside my controller if I add more PCBs down the line.

One more question. If the buttons are already grounded to one PCB, and I'm using the above method, I only have to bridge the power and ground from the new PCB to the existing grounded PCB for it to be properly grounded... right?

I hope I'm making sense.

Thanks again for all of your guys' help.

[krost]

Would just like to say that, given the information everyone gave me, I was able to successfully add a PSX PCB to my HRAP3. Thank you all very much :D

[GuymelefX]

Would just like to say that, given the information everyone gave me, I was able to successfully add a PSX PCB to my HRAP3. Thank you all very much :D

Hey krost i'll apreciate if you could esplain how finally do it , with pics better( HRAP 3 PCB...), you the first i know that add a psx pcb in a HRAP3 and i want to do the same.

[jhferry]

I wonder If there is anyway to do this with a 360 controller and a PSX controller. Perhaps using that gamestop wired controller? Doesnt that have a common ground?

[Starcade RIP]

Some of the mat catz/gamestop wired controllers have common grounds. Also, that whacky mad catz arcade stick has common grounds.

So yes, you can do it.

[Shin00bi]

Some of the mat catz/gamestop wired controllers have common grounds. Also, that whacky mad catz arcade stick has common grounds.

So yes, you can do it.

I bought a couple from the Online Computer Geeks store. They were $10 a piece.

I've already hacked one. IDK while people keep the plastic analog sticks attached, even partially. They pop right off, and PCB can be rather low-profile if you do it right.

[psychedelicbeat]

i would like to be the second to attempt this since adapters are expensive as hell and direct wiring reduces the changes of delayed input :sweat:

[krost]

As soon as I finish the 100 things I have to do, I'll draw up a HRAP3 specific schematic on how to add a PSX (or any PCB for that matter).

[Shin00bi]

As soon as I finish the 100 things I have to do, I'll draw up a HRAP3 specific schematic on how to add a PSX (or any PCB for that matter).

I look forward to this schematic.

I am in no hurry to make a multi-stick as of yet, but it's definitely on my to-do list for the future (maybe Spring time, or Summer. Whenever ST HDR comes out. I may aim for having a 4-pcb stick for that time!)

This is an awesome topic.

[speedsterharry]

The various ideas and schematics given here are not my cup of tea. Granted, the 2 PCBs have to be powered at the same time, but connecting the PS2 cord will underpower the USB and reciprocally, connecting the USB will overpower the PS2 PCB. In order to cleanly implement the multiPCB thing, you need to add a small board which will output 2 voltages +3,3 V and +5 V from either 3.3 or 5 V. A Zener diode could do a small step-down voltage conversion but I'm still unsure how to do it in general.

[Toodles]

but connecting the PS2 cord will underpower the USB
Sure. And since we're not using USB when that happens, why is that a bad thing? It is enough to make sure it doesn't pull power from the pulled-high input lines, which is all we really care about.

We don't need it to RUN, just not leech power from the inputs. Unless you're going to tell me that a device that is made to run from 5v is somehow going to be damaged if connected to a 3.3v source.

and reciprocally, connecting the USB will overpower the PS2 PCB.While I can't say for certain that they are truly spec'ed for 5v operation, I can say with certainty that they operate from 5v sources reliably. Every single PSX->USB, PSX->Xbox, PSX->Saturn, PSX->SNES, PSX->NeoGeo, fuck it, EVERY PSX converter powers the PSX pad with 5v (POSSIBLE exception for some GameCube converters, since it does have a 3.3v line, but every one I've taken apart powers the pad from the 5v line.)

Again, we don't even need the PSX to work properly at that point, just not fry, and not leech power from the inputs.

In order to cleanly implement the multiPCB thing, you need to add a small board which will output 2 voltages +3,3 V and +5 V from either 3.3 or 5 V. A Zener diode could do a small step-down voltage conversion but I'm still unsure how to do it in general.
Sure, you could do that, but I'm not sure what you'd gain by doing so.
BTW, any diode will cause a voltage drop; Zeners are slightly more expensive, and are used as a protection from too much voltage, not so much for dropping voltage. Using them for voltage dropping means you could have used normal cheap diodes instead.

If you're serious about building something like this yourself, for upping the 3.3v to 5v, you should look into something like the MAX751 and related chips that do the job pretty nicely in an 8 pin DIP, with only a few extra components needed. It wouldn't surprise me if Maxim-IC had chips specifically for outputting 3.3v and 5v from a varied input source.

[speedsterharry]

We don't need it to RUN, just not leech power from the inputs. Unless you're going to tell me that a device that is made to run from 5v is somehow going to be damaged if connected to a 3.3v source.

I didn't say it would damage it. My only concern was that powering with +3.3 V a +5 V device won't do much regarding the current drawn with the inputs (i.e. I thought the PCB would act as if unpowered). I'm glad to see that pads PCBs are tolerant enough to do that sort of thing.

EVERY PSX converter powers the PSX pad with 5v

Ah ! Very good to know.

In that case, the schematic given by TIMOE just works, I agree. Magic !

Sure, you could do that, but I'm not sure what you'd gain by doing so.
BTW, any diode will cause a voltage drop; Zeners are slightly more expensive, and are used as a protection from too much voltage, not so much for dropping voltage. Using them for voltage dropping means you could have used normal cheap diodes instead.

I said Zener to get a +1,7 V voltage drop, the other normal diodes have a lower forward voltage (+0,3 V for germanium or +0,7 V for silicium IIRC - don't quote me on that though) that's why I discarded them.

If you're serious about building something like this yourself, for upping the 3.3v to 5v, you should look into something like the MAX751 and related chips that do the job pretty nicely in an 8 pin DIP, with only a few extra components needed. It wouldn't surprise me if Maxim-IC had chips specifically for outputting 3.3v and 5v from a varied input source.

I was not really serious about that but someone asked me if I could dual PCB (new verb !) his HRAP3 and thought "easy !". Then, after reading this thread and what solutions other SRK members found out, I wasn't so sure.

Anyway, thanks for enlighting me, it's always a pleasure to read these forums with knowledgeable people like you, willing to share !

EDIT: Shoo, could you add this thread to the Essential Joystick thread ? I think it deserves to be there. Thx

[GuymelefX]

Hey, my Korean PSX Dual Shock is 3.48 Volts, not 3.3V, any problem with this when i will ad the PCB to the HRAP 3?

Also Gound and +v seems to be changed in the buttons respect to the PSX pad pic.
http://arkadesticks.com/hackedpads/PSOneDualShockH.jpg

[Toodles]

Hey, my Korean PSX Dual Shock is 3.48 Volts, not 3.3V, any problem with this when i will ad the PCB to the HRAP 3?

Nope, should work fine.

[Tetsuosan]

Going back to what toodles said about the converters, your saying that I'm getting a constant +5v from my Total Control Plus?

I was thinking about putting a 5v step up converter chip in my custom happ case, because of the P360 that's in there right now. It's having trouble reading diagonals, so I'm trying to narrow down what the solution to the problem may. If I'm getting the 5v from the converter then I'm not going to bother putting in the step up chip

Another question that I have is I'm thinking about doing a multi-pcb set up in my HRAP 2 with an Xbox 360 pcb. Should I A) wire the Xbox pcb with the HRAP pcb, or B) scrapping the HRAP pcb and put in a DS pcb with the Xbox pcb? The HRAP pcb looks weird because it has seperate grounds for the buttons and a single ground for the Sanwa pcb.

[Toodles]

Both are problems easily solved with a multimeter.
Going back to what toodles said about the converters, your saying that I'm getting a constant +5v from my Total Control Plus?

I was thinking about putting a 5v step up converter chip in my custom happ case, because of the P360 that's in there right now. It's having trouble reading diagonals, so I'm trying to narrow down what the solution to the problem may. If I'm getting the 5v from the converter then I'm not going to bother putting in the step up chip
Every converter I've seen does, but its very easy to verify that specific one. Open up your stick, set a multimeter for voltage (some setting just over 5 volts. On mine, it'd be 20 volts), put the black probe on the black ground wire coming from the p360, put the red probe on the red wire coming from the p360. Voltage on the multimeter is the voltage the p360 is receiving.

Another question that I have is I'm thinking about doing a multi-pcb set up in my HRAP 2 with an Xbox 360 pcb. Should I A) wire the Xbox pcb with the HRAP pcb, or B) scrapping the HRAP pcb and put in a DS pcb with the Xbox pcb? The HRAP pcb looks weird because it has seperate grounds for the buttons and a single ground for the Sanwa pcb.HRAP 2 definitely uses a common ground. If you use a multimeter to check the resistance between wires, you should find one on each button that connects to one of each pair of wires. There are two wires going to each button, but the ground are all connected on the PCB.

If it were me, I'd use the HRAP 2 pcb.

[Tetsuosan]

Thanks Toodles you're a God amongst electronics gurus lmao-.

[krost]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/Ryebreadstick/Forums/hrap3schematic.png

I know the image sucks - let me explain it.

What you need to know about the HRAP3 pins -

Pin 5 (far left) - +5v
Pin 2 (second from right) - Ground

You will be adding a wire that connects the HRAP3's +5v to the PSX controller's +5v (Pin 5 on a PSX controller), and a wire that connects the HRAP3's Ground to the psx controller's ground (Pin 4 on a PSX controller).

Once you do that, you connect the buttons to the PSX pcb. There are 2 terminals on each button - one is connected to the ground, which is NOT what you want - otherwise that button will always be pressed. To find out which is which, use a multimeter - have the black wire touching the ground pin on the HRAP3 pcb, and the other touching a terminal on the button. If it connects, that's the ground - if it doesn't, you've found the correct terminal.

I connected an extra wire to the button's terminal by just soldering the wire onto the quick disconnect. That way, if I ever have to remove the button, I can just remove the disconnect and the extra wire should stay with it. Unless, of course, you add too much solder to the disconnect and it solders onto the terminal - then you'll have to heat up the solder to remove the button down the road.

You do not have to connect the ground terminal on the button to the PSX PCB's common ground... because it's already been grounded.

An alternate way, and probably not very safe way (I don't know enough about electronics to say so), is to have your psx controller hooked up to a PSX -> USB adapter, and watching the buttons on the screen (Control Panel -> Game Controllers). Connect the wire to the respective PSX button on the pcb, and touch the wire on one of the terminals - if the button lights up, it's the wrong one. If it doesn't light up, pressing the button while it's touching should light it up. This is assuming, of course, the PSX pcb's ground and +5v is properly connected on the HRAP3's.

And that's basically it. However, you will have some challenges and decisions to make when you're doing this. Here are a few I had to deal with -

1) You can not solder on top of the PCB, where the PS3 control panel is (unless, of course, you can care less about the PS3 buttons, then ignore this). If you solder on top, which you'll be tempted to do because it's easier, you won't be able to put the plastic control panel back on. Which leaves the question - how are you going to connect the ground and +5v? On the other side of the PCB is a removable connector that connects the cable to the PCB. Now, if I had the parts handy, I would have loved to just make my own custom connector that had 2 wires coming out of it for the other connection - but I'm not that cool. Instead, I just did away with the plastic connector. I removed the cable from the connector, revealing the 5 pins it connects to. I then took a soldering iron and heated up the solder on top of the pcb, which allowed me to pull away the pin from the hole. However, the plastic connector will give you trouble as far as pulling it out of the hole - a decent amount of resistance is there. I got really tired of this part, so I literally melted the other half of the plastic connector off and did what I had to do to get the pins out. In the end, I just had 5 holes that I could do what I wanted with. Some needlenosed pliers let me pinch/snap apart the connector on the cable, which gave me access to the wires. Not the most elegant job, but I wasn't aiming for professionalism. Just be careful that you don't go all Hulk on it, you don't want to force off the copper on the PCB - then you'd be in real trouble.

2)I forced the copper off the #5 pin on the pcb. I thought I was in deep shit, but I took a breath and traced the lead down to an LED that must power on when the turbo button is on or something - I took out the LED and used the +5v side to plug in my +5v pin. Voila.

3) If your PSX controller doesn't have a removable connector, like mine, you're going to have to desolder the wires going into the pcb to be able to route the wire outside of the controller. Make sure you accurately map your Pinout using a multimeter.

4) Get a dremel or something to make a hole for your PSX wire to go through.

5) It's going to be a rat's nest in there when you're done - make sure you use electric tape around all of your joints so none of them touch inside the controller when you close it all up. Otherwise you'll have a controller that randomly registers buttons when you smack it hard.

If you're not comfortable with electronics, soldering irons and the like, I would really recommend NOT doing this mod. There is no quick and easy way to do this, and since this is not a custom arcade stick that you designed yourself, you have to be patient with working with their design. With that said, if you've done some basic soldering before, AKA you're comfortable with hacking a PSX pad and have done so in the past, this is a fun mod to do on your HRAP3.

And last but not least...

DO NOT HOOK UP BOTH AT ONCE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

I did this by accident when I was testing the button connections on my computer, and before I realized what I had done, it was too late. The USB worked fine (thankfully), but the PSX was completely fried. Hitting X registered up and O, hitting down registered start and square, etc. I really need to look into getting a switch that chooses the power for down the road.

I hope my information will help someone down the line do this to their controller - I recommend not using my post as a step-by-step guide, and instead try figuring out how to do it on your own given the previous posts on the thread. Then everything I said will make sense. You really shouldn't be doing any of this stuff unless you have a good understanding of how and why this works.

Have fun,

Ryebread

[GuymelefX]

Thanks for the tutorial, i'm almost decided.

My "fear" is that you say that can't solder on the top of USB PCB, it will be more easy...

[krost]

Thanks for the tutorial, i'm almost decided.

My "fear" is that you say that can't solder on the top of USB PCB, it will be more easy...

Again, if you could live without the Turbo/Home/L3/R3 buttons and the switch to make your stick analog, you could just leave the pcb inside the stick with your PSX PCB. You could leave the hole where the panel would be open, you could just screw in the panel (without the buttons), or get creative and custom make your own logo to put there or something.

[GuymelefX]

Can't the +v and GND PSX PCB wires go through this hole and solded in the top?

PCB TOP.
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2748/dsc00369mf3.jpg

HOLE
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/632/dsc00371mf5.jpg


------------------------------------------------

Another question for the buttons:
Instead of cut the HRAP 3 original wires like says this pic:
http://joystickvault.com/data/507/medium/dual_PCB_diagram.JPG
is possible launch wires from PSX PCB and make contact with this directly?
http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/5944/2994763880084014115S600x600Q85.jpg

[krost]

HOLE

...

:annoy:

Good observation. I guess I should be getting more sleep...

If you can route 2 wires through that hole to the PCB solder points, definitely do that - That way, you won't have to mess with the connector, and it'll be much more clean in the end. I would've done it this way if saw this ahead of time.

is possible launch wires from PSX PCB and make contact with this directly?

Yes. That pic is using a distribution block. You do not have to use it. Like I said in my post, I just had a wire for each button going from the PCB to the buttons quick disconnect - I soldered the wire on the quick disconnect. You could cut the wire and crimp your own quick disconnect to have 2 wires in it, if you wanted to.

[GuymelefX]

krost, you are my hero. :)

You do not have to connect the ground terminal on the button to the PSX PCB's common ground... because it's already been grounded.

is the same for the stick ground? (1-ground stick-to-4grounds d-pad?) or simply 4 (directions) wires from the stick to the PSX PCB.?

Thanks.

[WuGgaRoo]

hey...
I am completely new to this so some of these questions will seem amateurish..

1) In the following picture, there is a green/grey thing in the middle which all the wires are going into.. is that a terminal strip?
http://joystickvault.com/data/507/medium/dual_PCB_diagram.JPG


if not, then what is it?

2) I am trying to connect a saturn, PSX (one of the original digital only models) and a Quantum fighter dreamcast controller all in one, is this possible?

3) Aside from getting a multimeter from radioshack, is there any other way I can figure out where the grounds and +5/+3V are in each of these controllers?

THANKS!!!

[RoboKrikit]

1) In the following picture, there is a green/grey thing in the middle which all the wires are going into.. is that a terminal strip?

Yep, it's a terminal strip.

They look like this (standard):

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Molex/Web%20Photos/38780-0112.jpg

or this (European):

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Molex/Web%20Photos/39150-0312.jpg


2) I am trying to connect a saturn, PSX (one of the original digital only models) and a Quantum fighter dreamcast controller all in one, is this possible?

3) Aside from getting a multimeter from radioshack, is there any other way I can figure out where the grounds and +5/+3V are in each of these controllers?

It should work OK.

Really, you oughta pick up a multimeter. It's a huge help for projects like this, especially for testing continuity. You'll hate yourself if you wire up 3 PCBs, a stick, and a bunch of buttons, then something's not connected properly when you fire it up, and you've got no idea where the problem is.

[krost]

is the same for the stick ground? (1-ground stick-to-4grounds d-pad?) or simply 4 (directions) wires from the stick to the PSX PCB.?

Thanks.

Yup, stick is already grounded to your HRAP3 pcb, so you only have to solder the 4 directions from the stick to the PCB.

Also to be noted- Sanwa sticks have the 5-pin connector that goes straight to the pcb. I didn't want to mess with this connector, so instead, I soldered onto the stick itself. The stick has 4 PCB-like panels with copper on it for each direction - I soldered directly to that for the PSX buttons. If you need help locating them, I can post a picture, but it should be pretty obvious.

[GuymelefX]

This is the last question for my PCB adventure
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9734/stibr1.jpg

Which is exactly each +v direction copper?

[krost]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/Ryebreadstick/Forums/SanwaStickSolder.png

Also, if anyone could link me to a site that has parts/tools to make your own custom connectors that'll fit parts like on the HRAP3 and Sanwa stick pin-out, please let me know. I'd like to be able to just crimp my own connectors down the road if I were to do this again.

[speedsterharry]

Also, if anyone could link me to a site that has parts/tools to make your own custom connectors that'll fit parts like on the HRAP3 and Sanwa stick pin-out, please let me know. I'd like to be able to just crimp my own connectors down the road if I were to do this again.

Like the connectors on the top-right of this page ?

http://www.gotronic.fr/catalog/connectique/connectframe.htm

Every good grocery should have them

[krost]

Yes, exactly, except that link brings you to the very top link (accessories), I had to click "circuits imprimés" to see them.

The 5-point female should do the trick.

Thank you, at least I know they can be bought easily. If I were to look for it in a store, besides Radioshack, is there any other place you'd recommend? And what tool would I need to be able to "crimp" these kinds of connectors?

[Toodles]

Yes, exactly, except that link brings you to the very top link (accessories), I had to click "circuits imprimés" to see them.

The 5-point female should do the trick.

Thank you, at least I know they can be bought easily. If I were to look for it in a store, besides Radioshack, is there any other place you'd recommend? And what tool would I need to be able to "crimp" these kinds of connectors?
The original parts are made by JST, and have 2.5mm spacing. Most american parts have 2.54mm spacing. I dont know of any easy to find places to find the proper part.

They have their own tool for crimping, but I always just use a pair of pointed pliers, like a leatherman, to crimp them.

[Shin00bi]

I use a DB 25 switch to wire the PCBs to the stick. its vary easy this way and you can have the 2 PCBs hooked up to the systems at the same time.
all you have to do is to switch the switch to A or B, and 1 PCB will always stay on neutral. heres a DB25 switch
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10103&cs_id=1010305&p_id=1352&seq=1&format=2
you can take the switch out from its box, its small enough to easily fit inside a stick.
and put it on the side of the stick from inside out so all you have to do is switch from A to B depending on what system you want to use.
also you can upgrade in the future to a 3,4 or 6 way switch if you want to add more PCBs to the joystick

Since Mono had a backorder for all the items I wanted, I went with computercablestore.com - I ordered the 6-way db25 switch. It has a very compact lay-out, and I figure, this can be turned into my own personal ultimate stick. I will have one stick that mainly uses converters for guests.. and a more personalized (completely custom lay-out and design) stick for my own needs, which has that switch in it. This switch-box concept just appeals to me greatly. Those 6 slots will fill up quick if it goes as planned.

[GuymelefX]

Up with this topic, the reason, i want to give the thanks to everybody that help me here, specially to krost :) , finally i finish my psx pcb install in the HRAP3.

PD: 2 PSX pads die in the process.

[krost]

Congrats : )

And I killed a PCB in the process as well...

[KnyghtFall]

I recently tried to wire up a Dreamcast PCB in my HRAP 2, and couldn't figure out why all the buttons would fire and reset the thing.

I will connect the 5v and ground together, and it should work fine.

Thank you all for sharing your wisdom.

[krost]

I recently tried to wire up a Dreamcast PCB in my HRAP 2, and couldn't figure out why all the buttons would fire and reset the thing.

I will connect the 5v and ground together, and it should work fine.

Thank you all for sharing your wisdom.

Let us know how it goes

[GuymelefX]

I think that with the HRAP 2 all things must be more easy, there is "Ps2 to any console" converters, you don't need add any PCB.

[KnyghtFall]

It was a runaway success!!! Thank you all for your help.

Toodles: Much respect. :china: :china: :china:

[Starcade RIP]

So...

I got a couple of those Madcatz Arcade Sticks to hack. I mapped out the solder points for the buttons/directions (it's posted in the pad hacking thread, fyi). I'm pretty sure that the large black wire is ground (following it back to the cord reveals that the insulation gives way and it is just raw wire running the rest of the length of the cord) and red is +v. However, I'm really nervous about doing any damage to my new x360.

I figure I need to break down at get a multimeter to test for sure, but then I realized I haven't used one in over 15 years. I know brief instructions were given in this thread, but I just want to make sure I won't be doing anything to damage my console by trying to do this.

Basically the red terminal goes to the +v and the black terminal goes to ground, while the console is powered on with the pad plugged in, correct? What if I'm testing on the wrong prongs on the PCB? Could any damage result?

Sorry for the noobie question, but I don't really want to brick my elite. I'd rather ask a dumb question than damage property.

[akuma001]

So...

I got a couple of those Madcatz Arcade Sticks to hack. I mapped out the solder points for the buttons/directions (it's posted in the pad hacking thread, fyi). I'm pretty sure that the large black wire is ground (following it back to the cord reveals that the insulation gives way and it is just raw wire running the rest of the length of the cord) and red is +v. However, I'm really nervous about doing any damage to my new x360.

I figure I need to break down at get a multimeter to test for sure, but then I realized I haven't used one in over 15 years. I know brief instructions were given in this thread, but I just want to make sure I won't be doing anything to damage my console by trying to do this.

Basically the red terminal goes to the +v and the black terminal goes to ground, while the console is powered on with the pad plugged in, correct? What if I'm testing on the wrong prongs on the PCB? Could any damage result?

Sorry for the noobie question, but I don't really want to brick my elite. I'd rather ask a dumb question than damage property.

i've hacked around 10 of these pcbs into virtua stick high grades and the red is always power, the green and white are always the data lines, and the 2 black are always ground.

from the top side closest to the turbo on/off switch you will see 5 pads. solder your ground to the far left marked eg and your +5 to the far right pad marked vcc.

there is not much more to it or anything you can really mess up.

[Starcade RIP]

Yay! I love fool-proof wiring directions.

Thanks a ton.

[WuGgaRoo]

hmmm...

to connect the +5 or +3.3v on each controller is it possible to just snip the redwire in each controller, connecting the wires together and then reconnecting them to the controller?

or simply strip part of the wire away and then connect them together by using a wire and some solder?

[simplygriff]

Anyone know if the Virtua Stick High Grade has a common ground? I know it has it's own 2 separate PCB's but I'm knocking around the idea of adding a PSX PCB so it could be used with converters. Anyone done this on the VSHG?
-G

[Farpenoodle]

Yes. The VSHG PCB is common ground. Though personally I just put a PSX PCB in and use a converter to play on PS3. Don't like dangly bits. With a common ground 360 PCB though you can do both PS3/360 through the same cord.

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/175874/fpart/1

[simplygriff]

Thanks much. I've looked through that tread a couple times and completely forgot all that info was there.
-G

[UltraDavid]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/Ryebreadstick/Forums/hrap3schematic.png

I know the image sucks - let me explain it.

What you need to know about the HRAP3 pins -

Pin 5 (far left) - +5v
Pin 2 (second from right) - Ground
I don't have a multimeter, but I was wondering if you or anyone else could help me out. I hacked an A Series PSX pad, and I'm not sure where the +5v and ground are on this thing. Just based on your diagram, it looks like I may be able to tell because this pad also has a 9-pin layout. Here are some pictures (of an A Series I'm not hacking because part of it broke off): http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2232/2242407643_bea4b09d11_o.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2210/2242407639_85ebfee351_b.jpg

Does this look similar? Do you think the +5v and ground would be located in the same location in this pad? Also, I already have an A Series hooked up to my stick, grounded and everything, and I'm in the process of attaching a Mad Catz arcade stick pcb to that. If I connect the Mad Catz pcb's ground to the A Series pcb's ground, do I still need to put a wire in between one of the button grounds and the rest of the stick as a common ground?

[krost]

Short answer - no. You'd be surprised how many PCBs pinouts don't correspond with the order it's in on the board. Do yourself a favor and pick up a multimeter from radioshack, and use the continuity test function on it.

As for your other question, you have to do 3 things to each PCB you add to your stick:

1) Connect the ground pins together
2) Connect the +5v pins together
3) Connect the buttons to the PCB. You do NOT have to connect the button grounds to the new PCB. Since you bridged the ground on the PCBs, you're essentially picking up the button common ground from the other PCB. So each button, in your setup, will have 3 wires coming off of it... say, for the X button, assuming PCB1 has already been wired up perfectly:

1 wire going to X on PCB1
1 wire going to X on PCB2
1 wire (on the the other lead on the button) going to the common ground on PCB1

the crappy picture I made that you quoted should illustrate that.

[hecz]

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8366/33016989xd4.th.png (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=33016989xd4.png)

Sorry for this crappy paint pic.

I did this crappy mod cuz I was tired of wasting money on switches. The positives of the 360 microcon and the sfac pcb dindt like to be together.

This helped me and others who have the sfac arcade stick and wanted the 360 to

work too. If i want the 360 to work I connect the male db25.

Oh and the digital pad and the sfac stick positives (down left etc.) can be together.

Again sorry for the crappy pic.

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

Here's a quick question on a similar note... if I want to wire a stick to internally have a PS2 PCB and also output to DB15 (NeoGeo that is), do I need to connect the DB15's +5v to the PCBs to get it to work right?

[Toodles]

Here's a quick question on a similar note... if I want to wire a stick to internally have a PS2 PCB and also output to DB15 (NeoGeo that is), do I need to connect the DB15's +5v to the PCBs to get it to work right?
Just to be safe, yes. If the DB-15 isnt connected to anything, nothing happens and the PSX works peachy. If the DB-15 is connected, the PSX PCB is powered and wont try to leech power from the input pins.

[Ed_Farias]

Toodles,
This may sound like a dumb question and totally not needed when wiring 2 pcbs together like you suggested. I was just curious.
What if you install a diode for each of the wires coming out the PCBs? Will that break the large circuit connection from happening?

I know, wiring up 20+ diodes is a dumb idea, I was just curious.

[Toodles]

Are you just trying to provide a 'stick on fire/consoles blown/dog raped' scenario if someone pulls a stupid? If so, then yes and no. Yes, diodes can do that, and no, you don't need 20, you just need one for each system.

Have the power line for each system disconnected so it doesn't go into the PCB. Run it through a diode, and connect all of those diode ends together into a community power source. All of the PCB's will get their power from that community power source, so run a wire from there to where the power normally entered each PCB.

If you can, especially with PSX pads, find power diodes with a lower voltage drop.
I'd also recommend some kind of fuse, like the self resetting fuses I use on the UPCB. They're about 50 cents to $1.50 each depending on how many you get at a time. If the current goes over the limit, fuse gets warm, trips, and stays that way until unplugged and allowed to cool.

So, power from each console cable-----diode |>|----PTC fuse------(to power all PCB's)

At least that's how I remember Shin Ace describing it like 4 years ago.

[MDK]

toodles,

What type of diode would you use? There's a few different types out there (fast recovery, switching, signal, rectifier, zener, standard recovery)

They seem to be rated using following -

#Voltage, Vrrm
#Current, If av
#Current, Ifs max
#Voltage, forward at If

Not sure what to look for

[Toodles]

toodles,

What type of diode would you use? There's a few different types out there (fast recovery, switching, signal, rectifier, zener, standard recovery)

They seem to be rated using following -

#Voltage, Vrrm
#Current, If av
#Current, Ifs max
#Voltage, forward at If

Not sure what to look for

I looked at a few last night when trying to answer Ed; I was trying to find one with a low forward voltage drop, and didn't have too much success; I know they exist, but I couldn't find a part number for one with a drop low enough to make me happy. But, if you're looking through datasheets, here's what I'd look for: (Normal disclaimer; I suck at analog and the information here may be off or even flat out wrong. If it breaks, you keep both pieces.)
#Voltage: Maximum voltage (perhaps maximum reverse voltage before breakdown). EIther way, make sure its a bit above the voltages you're planning on using. All consoles except for PSX use 5v, Sony PSX and PS2 are 3.3v, so get one with a voltage rating >5. I'd say a minimum of 7v, but it's pretty hard to find one with a voltage rating less than 10. The sky's the limit, so one with a 200v rating will work fine, although it will physically be bigger.

#Current, If av
#Current, Ifs max : Current it can handle before blowing. This is rarely a concern for small power devices like this. Figure a very conservative estimate of 100mA per pad (the UPCB runs at about 10-15mA, and I expect most commercial PCBs run at much less than that) and you have a very safe number to work with. If the 'If av' (current average) is 200mA, it'll work quite well for your two pcb setup. Ignore the max one. Since you'll be well under average, no need to care about the max.

#Voltage, forward at If: This is the one you should be hunting around for. Every diode causes a voltage drop, so the voltage through the diode will be less than the voltage if the diode wasn't there. You'd really like this to be as low as possible, especially for PSX/PS2 systems, but its difficult to find ones with obscenely low voltage drop. IIRC, Shottky type diodes have the smallest forward voltage drop, so it you're okay shopping around, start there, find the ones with voltage and current rating that are safe for what you have planned, and pick the one with the lowest voltage drop.

Some of the datasheets show the voltage drop with respect to current; its okay to fudge this one and count up 10mA per pad to get an idea of the current you'll actually be using.

Hope that helps.

[Ed_Farias]

Thanks Toodles,
I would be interesting if someone tries this route. I was more asking for the curiousity in me. I'm really considering taking an electronics course or two at the local Community college :). If I ever find the time.

[MDK]

Good stuff toodles, I'll grab a few this weekend and try out a few different combinations.

[hozie]

I know this might be different than most. I still see this as two PCB's in one stick. I use this on my Modded SF Anniversary Stick. I have the buttons hooked up to barrier strips then from there I have a db 25 port.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/hozie50/Arcade%20Sticks/DSC03857.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/hozie50/Arcade%20Sticks/DSC03858.jpg

It fits inside the Box itself, right below the stick. Industrial Velcro holds it in.

[Shin00bi]

I know this might be different than most. I still see this as two PCB's in one stick. I use this on my Modded SF Anniversary Stick. I have the buttons hooked up to barrier strips then from there I have a db 25 port.

*images*

It fits inside the Box itself, right below the stick. Industrial Velcro holds it in.

I recently received a 6-switch db25. I'll get around to using it eventually, I'm sure. Not exactly sure what the best way of using it is, but I guess I'll just have to figure that out.

It has the 6 db25 female outlets, and 1 In/Out. I guess, I just wire the actual arcade switches to the in/out, and then wire the PCB buttons to the actual, db25 switches.

Edit: For reference, this is what I bought: http://www.computercablestore.com/6_Way_DB25_Manual_Switchb_PID169.aspx

[ulovemikeroch]

I recently received a 6-switch db25. I'll get around to using it eventually, I'm sure. Not exactly sure what the best way of using it is, but I guess I'll just have to figure that out.

It has the 6 db25 female outlets, and 1 In/Out. I guess, I just wire the actual arcade switches to the in/out, and then wire the PCB buttons to the actual, db25 switches.

Edit: For reference, this is what I bought: http://www.computercablestore.com/6_Way_DB25_Manual_Switchb_PID169.aspx

I don't think all those PCB's can fit in there...
Plus it'll be a bitch to carry, but I guess better then 6 project boxes.

[Bomberman]

This thread has really inspired me. I am now determined to make a stick with 360/PS3/Wii/GC support. Think of the usefulness!

[Bomberman]

Err, does anyone know if the Pelican 3-system PCB is common ground? I'd like to stick it in a stick with a VSHG and MadCatz PCB as well... That'd support quite a lot of systems!

EDIT: No, the Pelican 3-system PCB is not common ground. Dang.

[Bomberman]

I did this crappy mod cuz I was tired of wasting money on switches. The positives of the 360 microcon and the sfac pcb dindt like to be together.


That's because the SFAC stick uses a common 5V setup rather than common ground setup, doesn't it?

[Tetsuosan]

I just purchased a VSHG and wanted to do a dual pcb set up. I have two questions. Question 1 is I want to do a dual pcb set up with an xbox 360 pcb. If I hook up both pcbs to a small hub when I hook up the usb plug out of the hub will I fry my console/computer. I want to eliminate having two usb plugs coming out of the stick to ease confusion.

Question two is assuming I can run the set up that I explained above with the hub, when I decide to hook up the stick to a computer will I have problems playing a game. I assume I would because I would technically have two different controllers plugged in at once.

I'm sorry if I don't make sense I just got out of work a little while ago and I'm beat ass tired. God damn graveyard shift :mad:.

[Bomberman]

This is the best way to do it: http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/175874/fpart/1
using a DPDT switch to toggle between the data lines of the 2 PCBs and using only one cable.

EDIT: But of course the guy below me says your way is fine too. I'd rather have just one cable though.

[Toodles]

I just purchased a VSHG and wanted to do a dual pcb set up. I have two questions. Question 1 is I want to do a dual pcb set up with an xbox 360 pcb. If I hook up both pcbs to a small hub when I hook up the usb plug out of the hub will I fry my console/computer. I want to eliminate having two usb plugs coming out of the stick to ease confusion.It should work fine with no frying. You still need to connect each button to both PCB's, and they still need to be powered, but outside of wiring mistakes, there isn't any reason it should fry. This idea was suggested a number of months ago.

Question two is assuming I can run the set up that I explained above with the hub, when I decide to hook up the stick to a computer will I have problems playing a game. I assume I would because I would technically have two different controllers plugged in at once. You would have two controllers plugged in and working simultaneously, but that shouldnt be any problem.

[Shin00bi]

I don't think all those PCB's can fit in there...
Plus it'll be a bitch to carry, but I guess better then 6 project boxes.

This isn't a priority project at this point, but when I incorporate the switch, I won't really be using the steel-casing. It'll just be part of a big-surfaced arcade controller (it'll be on the inside essentially, unseen, except for a custom switch on the outside. )

[Tetsuosan]

Thanks toodles appreciate your help

[kekken3]

Short answer - no. You'd be surprised how many PCBs pinouts don't correspond with the order it's in on the board. Do yourself a favor and pick up a multimeter from radioshack, and use the continuity test function on it.

As for your other question, you have to do 3 things to each PCB you add to your stick:

1) Connect the ground pins together
2) Connect the +5v pins together
3) Connect the buttons to the PCB. You do NOT have to connect the button grounds to the new PCB. Since you bridged the ground on the PCBs, you're essentially picking up the button common ground from the other PCB. So each button, in your setup, will have 3 wires coming off of it... say, for the X button, assuming PCB1 has already been wired up perfectly:

1 wire going to X on PCB1
1 wire going to X on PCB2
1 wire (on the the other lead on the button) going to the common ground on PCB1

the crappy picture I made that you quoted should illustrate that.
I'm planning to conect a PS1 and an x360 (madcatz live arcade stick - common ground) PCB together and since I'll only use them with regular sanwa/seimitsu sticks, am I right to assume I can skip step 2 and don't need to find and connect +5v pins? Or is it still needed? :confused:

[Tetsuosan]

^ It's still needed or the controls will get all wonky.

[A.C]

I don't think all those PCB's can fit in there...
Plus it'll be a bitch to carry, but I guess better then 6 project boxes.

I may be wrong here - but the product he linked was a switchbox... not a "PCB server" (for lack of a better term). The idea is novel however. You would simply attach your 6 project boxes to this switch & then run a single cable to your joystick. Then, depending on which system you are using, you toggle which channel the switchbox passes.

I could see this working (well) if a person has a dedicated A/V rack where all the hardware is stored. That way your cabling would remain permanent & you wouldn't haven't to plug/unplug anything ever.

I've seen similar switchboxes which are remote controlled... which would add even another layer of convenience.

[kekken3]

Thank you for the answer, Tetsuosan!
I wanted to ask for more details on the cause, but then I just read the whole thread again and now I'm totally confident in what I do. :woot:
Should have done it in the first place instead of spamming, tbh. :sweat:

[Shin Ace]

If you're going to wire multiple PCBs, I recommend using a diode on the power lead of each pcb.

Something like http://www.geocities.com/alainprice/5v.bmp

That way, you can actually plug it into mutiple consoles at once and not have to worry. In fact, you can play multiple games at once. The pads will draw power from the highest voltage source.

The last resort is a switch to choose which cord supplies power to all the pads.

The reason you need to power them is because they're digital circuits using ICs. If you don't power all the ICs in a circuit(all the pads), the circuit probably won't work.

You can also add circuits to power LEDs and so forth using the same principle.

p.s. please do not connect the +5v wires of multiple pads without a switch or diodes.

[someNOOB]

Hi

I've read most of this thread and i think this is a proper way of having multiple PCBs?

Assuming both are common ground PCBs is there any reason this shouldn't work?

Excuse the MSpaint skills... :\

http://i29.tinypic.com/8w080i.jpg

Thanks.

[Bomberman]

Hi

I've read most of this thread and i think this is a proper way of having multiple PCBs?

Assuming both are common ground PCBs is there any reason this shouldn't work?

Excuse the MSpaint skills... :\



Dude, I know you said to excuse it but that drawing...

You don't need a switch to toggle between 2 different PCBs unless they're sharing the same cord (such as 360 and PS3 both using a single USB cable).

[Starcade RIP]

Hi

I've read most of this thread and i think this is a proper way of having multiple PCBs?

Assuming both are common ground PCBs is there any reason this shouldn't work?

Excuse the MSpaint skills... :\


Thanks.

You need to wire up the +v and ground of the pcbs to each other. There is a picture earlier in the thread. I don't know whether that switch is effective or not, but I think it's the wrong way to wire up a switch.



p.s. please do not connect the +5v wires of multiple pads without a switch or diodes.
Or you could do what I do: put both systems so far away from each other that it is physically impossible to have them both plugged in at once!

I might give the diodes a shot for my next stick though. I'm not sure I fully understand the diagram though... you're basically butting a loop in the +v with a diode? Do you not also connect the grounds too?

[Toodles]

I'm not sure I fully understand the diagram though... you're basically butting a loop in the +v with a diode? Do you not also connect the grounds too?http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4831624&postcount=96
See if that helps.

[Starcade RIP]

Thank you, that's more clear to me.

[GOLDN-NZ]

very good/informative post dawg! :tup:

been contimplating on using a dc agetec pcb and a ps1 pad for my dual pcb setup. have you or anyone noticed any problems, glitches, weird stuff happening when both pcb's are powered on by one console?

i ain't no expert, but i was thinking for ex: from TMO first diagram on pg1,

-- i have my dreamcast on with just the dc joystick plug plugged in
-- i hit my jab button, thinking electronic "flow" the circuit is now closed (momentarily)
-- signal flows through both pcbs, right?
-- what happens with the ps2 data signal showing the circuit is closed (button pushed)? does this ever reach the dc pcb?
-- how or what happens when this ps2 signal reaches the dc pcb?
--last question how does the dc and ps2 know what signals to accept since they are both powered on and essentially share the same circuit the buttons and stick inputs are on?

thanks toodles, i just wanna get better understanding of this setup dawg :bgrin:


It's your stick; do whatever you want with it. But it is wasteful and inelegant.

This may sound rather dickish, and I apologize if it does, but I'm betting that the reason someone might want to go this route is because it is simple. You dont have to know any electronics to understand what those switches do, and how you can use them to connect the stick and buttons to one of two or more selectable PCBs, completely disconnecting it from the others. Simple, and easy to comprehend, and in case of any problems, should be easy for you to troubleshoot because its easier to understand; the switches connect the two points on the PCBs, and the PCB is just a mystical black box that does whatever it needs to. I get that, and I do see the appeal.

The thing is, with a little electronic know-how to understand how the PCB's work, and in particular how it detects the buttons, it becomes silly. With multiple common ground PCBs, there is no need to run two wires for every switch to a box, and then run two wires to each PCB for each switch. For a stick, start, select, and six buttons, thats twelve microswitches, taking up almost all of a DB-25 connector. With two PCB's, thats 6 wired connections for each switch, for 72 wired points; three PCBs, 8 wired connections per switch for 96 wired points. (# of connections=# of microswitches * (number of PCBs+1) * 2). Yuck. That's a rats nest and a half.

With multiple common ground PCBs connected like in TMO's picture, that number drops rapidly. Same 12 microswitches with two PCBs takes 26 connections. Three PCBs: 38. (That's counting the ground line that is daisy chained on all of the switches as one.)


How is adding more things to the stick for the human to do (the system select switch) going to make things more idiot-proof?

There's no reason the stick can't be made protected against the possibility of connecting to multiple consoles. I haven't been bringing it up because some people's eyes glaze over when it is mentioned.

All of the PCBs in the setup described must be powered, right? But you only want that power to come from one source, right? So, you have a ton of options to make that happen. For a two PCB setup, a toggle switch can be used to select with PCB cable is supplying the power. Better yet, if they are all 5v systems (no PSX or PS2), you can skip the switch altogether and have each power line from the console going through a diode. viola, for 10 cents in parts, the consoles and PCBs will be protected against someone pulling a stupid.


I would agree. The problem is you're assuming that our setup is somehow not rugged or fail-safe.

With the additional wired connections, I'd say it would be more expensive, especially with labor costs. My point is that it is extra work and cost with no benefit over the methods described.

[Shin Ace]

Or you could do what I do: put both systems so far away from each other that it is physically impossible to have them both plugged in at once!

I might give the diodes a shot for my next stick though. I'm not sure I fully understand the diagram though... you're basically butting a loop in the +v with a diode? Do you not also connect the grounds too?


1) Lucky! That is all.

2) Not a loop, an intercept. I always do it at the wires exposed going to the pcb. There's about 1" there. I use 1/2" for the pcb and 1/2" to go to diodes.

Basically, the diodes replace the switch. The striped end of the diodes are connected together. That end goes to Vcc on the pads. The 2(or however pads you have) other ends go to the power wire on the cords. In the switch analogy, the diodes are connected the same way; the striped ends of the diodes make the common Vcc connection for the pads. The other wires are your power supplies.

Honestly, if you're not sure, be careful. Not with the diodes thesemselves, which are pure safety devices. Use caution with multiples systems. Once you get the diodes working on two pads, it's then safe to plug both pads in at once.

[Shin Ace]

Okay, time for a refresher on how pads work.

There's 2 parts, power and logic.

1) The power is supplied from the Vcc wire(usually red). It flows into the pad, powering the chip. It flows back into the console via the ground wire.

2) Logic. Once the pad has power, the input can look for 2 things; either an analog or a digital signal. For cheapo USB pads and DC, you're dealing with mainly digital. The 'input' wire on the pad is 'sensing' a 0V(ground) or 5V(power) signal. Usually, it sits at 5V unless someone comes along and shorts it to ground.

That is why pads need power to work. If the pad is powered, it doesn't interfere with the circuit. Instead, if works normally, sensing inputs and sending signals to the console.

If you need to 'switch' pads, you do it(your hacking) along the Vcc wire. I cannot stress this enough. If you start switching ground wires, it won't work and you will waste your time. All grounds need to be common and connected together. All pads need to be powered. Done deal.

p.s. Just clicked on Toodles's link from post #120, lmao.

4 years ago, too good. But yeah. One diode per system. The system with the highest voltage will supply all pads, so it's 100% safe(minus a REALLY bad diode). So bypass the fuse. If all systems have the EXACT same voltage, they'll share the current needed. So by using diodes, it's like a switch. You can have all pads get 3.3 volts, or 5 volts.

The fuse was another famous mod. I was pissed cuz everyone was posting this fix suggesting a 10 ohm resistor instead of the blown DC fuse. Sure, it'll work, but for all the wrong reasons. Fuse that shit. I would never bother installing a fuse inside a joystick.

If you want a pic, post #116, or http://www.geocities.com/alainprice/5v.bmp

The + end of the diodes is you cutting the red wire on the cord. The end going to console gois to + on the diodes(1n914 much prefered). If you have no clue what they're worth, I'd say up to 5$ for all you need. The - end of the diodes is the striped end. Twist em together and solder them to a wire that feeds the other chopped end of cord for the pads.

[Kaytrim]

Ok with the diodes is there a certan type? I have zenier diodes, 1N757A 9.1v 1/2 watt. Will these work with a XBox 360 and PSX pad?

Thanks,
Michael

[GOLDN-NZ]

man, i'm still confused how to install a diode on a dual pcb setup... ... :confused:

i looked at shin ace's diagram and still don't understand it, can someone make a very simple (A B C) diagram/sketch of this?

thank you :sweat:

[Shin Ace]

Don't use zener diodes.

[Kaytrim]

I am an electronics noob so please be a bit more specific as to why I shouldn't use the zener diodes. What type of diode should I be using?

Thank you,
Kaytrim

[Shin Ace]

Do you know what a zener diode does? That's why you shouldn't use em.

Use a 1n914 if you can, otherwise, 1n4148, or 1n4001.

[A.C]

I'm about to undertake a dual purpose PS3/360 stick & I wanted to just have somebody here confirm my plan. I am a visual learner & I haven't seen anything explicitly drafted regarding this single USB cable mod... so I took the liberty of modding TMO's diagram posted earlier. Correct, no? Thanks.

http://homepage.mac.com/cramlet/.Pictures/extra/dualpcb1.jpg

[Toodles]

Looks great. Check CodyK's post on Virtuafighter; that's exactly how he (and Akuma001 does a bunch from what I hear) does the dual PCB in VSHG's.

My idea, althought I havent seen it done yet, is to have both wired to a small USB hub inside the stick. Both consoles will ignore the other's controllers, you can have a single USB cable coming out, with no switches. :)

[A.C]

My idea, althought I havent seen it done yet, is to have both wired to a small USB hub inside the stick. Both consoles will ignore the other's controllers, you can have a single USB cable coming out, with no switches. :)

I'm not entirely sure I understand this. If both PCB's are powered, and both PCB's are connected to the buttons, and both PCB's are sending data packets to the USB hub... might that not cause problems on the console side?

Essentially the console would be receiving both 360 & PS3 data logic... which even though it could handle one perfectly, I would think it would handle the combination poorly. I'd be like me trying to interpret a conversation if inserted between every English word was a German word. I could probably decipher the sentence... but it wouldn't be at native speed. Know what I'm saying?

Definitely sounds cool though (especially as it sounds non-destructive). I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the above though.

[Toodles]

I'm not entirely sure I understand this. If both PCB's are powered, and both PCB's are connected to the buttons, and both PCB's are sending data packets to the USB hub... might that not cause problems on the console side?
Right, right, right, and nope. If you have the consoles and a cheap USB hub, just give it a shot. Plug both a sixaxis and a wired 360 pad into the hub, and plug the hub into your console of choice. Electronically, the only thing difference between this little test and the wiring I'm proposing is that your wiring will make both press the equivalent buttons at the same time.

Essentially the console would be receiving both 360 & PS3 data logic... which even though it could handle one perfectly, I would think it would handle the combination poorly. I'd be like me trying to interpret a conversation if inserted between every English word was a German word. I could probably decipher the sentence... but it wouldn't be at native speed. Know what I'm saying?
Good analogy, but keep in mind both systems will see it as two different people (USB devices), and since the console will see that one doesn't speak its language, it will ignore the one it doesn't understand. It won't cause any slowdown because the ignored one will be ignored;there's no processing of what its saying past the initial plug in when the device is identified. Bandwidth isnt an issue because AFAIK, both PS3 and Xbox360 controllers are low speed HID devices; USB 1 bandwidth is 12mbits, and low speed devices have a max bandwidth of 1.5mbits, and only use a few kilobytes per second.

Definitely sounds cool though (especially as it sounds non-destructive). I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the above though.
I'm not sure what you mean by non-destructive; opening up the USB hub and wiring everything together will make the USB hub useless for anything else :)

Possible drawbacks though, just to be totally honest; If any games, or the consoles themselves, decide to puke and not budge until the unknown controller is removed, you're screwed. So far, none of the consoles or games do this that I know of. When plugged into a PC, both controllers will be identified; you can use either or both as long as you have the proper drivers installed.

The wiring is only a little more complicated than what you're describing. In your drawing, you have the shared +5v and GNDs going to the output USB cable, and the DPST switch controlling which D+ and D- pair go to the USB cable. With the hub method, you have the four USB wires from each controller going to the four wires in a USB jack on the hub. You remove the usually short pigtail USB cable from the hub, and solder in a longer USB cable in its spot.

[Bomberman]

Great idea, Toodles. I'll probably try it with my next multi-system stick.

[A.C]

Right, right, right, and nope.

guess i was short-changing modern console intelligence. good to know.


I'm not sure what you mean by non-destructive

yeah, probably not the best usage of the word (given the inherent nature of a pad-hack)... or the most thought out comment i've ever made. what i was envisioning was an uncut USB cable. for me personally, all my sticks are somewhat temporary & i'm always more than willing to frankenstein something from something else.

in the case of an unaltered USB hub driven stick, one could theoretically remove the PCB & OEM cable with minor effort... were there ever any need/want to... however the more i think about it the more i'm sure its a moot point as A) no one wants 6' of cable coiled inside their stick & B) for the sake of elegance, no one would keep all the USB connection interfaces, they'd simply cut/splice the wires.


regardless, cool stuff. i look forward to seeing your next project ;)

[Shin Ace]

I've never switched from one console to another. If I use a switch, it's to choose which consoles powers the pads. Both pads always send signals to the console, it's just that one pad is usually unplugged.

[Jaxel]

I'm about to undertake a dual purpose PS3/360 stick & I wanted to just have somebody here confirm my plan. I am a visual learner & I haven't seen anything explicitly drafted regarding this single USB cable mod... so I took the liberty of modding TMO's diagram posted earlier. Correct, no? Thanks.

http://homepage.mac.com/cramlet/.Pictures/extra/dualpcb1.jpg

Does this actually work? I wanna do this with two WIRELESS controllers, and charge with a single USB port.

Looking at the PS3 controller... it looks like there are 5 USB pins, not 4 though/

[Shin Ace]

Technically, yes. However, you're feeding either a 360 signal or ps3 signal through a USB cable. That alone is a serious problem because not all consoles work with 4 wires.

The power section is correct, but has 0 protection. Diodes or a switch would be nice.

The signal section is completely wrong. In reality, you'll have the 2 cords for the consoles coming out the back. One plugs into console A and the other console B. You can even have them plugged in at the same time, assuming you have protection on the +5 wire. There is no reason to merge them.

The exception to the rule is what you pointed out. Charging. You do exactly as the photo, no protection at all, for the red and black wires. Forget about the green and grey wires completely. Sounds like some good cable butchering to me. I hope you have spares.

[akuma001]

Does this actually work? I wanna do this with two WIRELESS controllers, and charge with a single USB port.


i know a guy who tried this a couple months ago and it didn't work for him because everytime he was in ps3 mode, whenever he pressed start/guide it would turn on his 360 or if he was in 360, whenever he pressed the guide button it would turn on his ps3.

i guess you can stop this by keeping the console you're not using unplugged but that is just hassle.

i dunno if he ever figured a way around this because he had no idea how to disable the green and white data lines like in a wired mod because these pads were wireless and there were none.

[Toodles]

Technically, yes. However, you're feeding either a 360 signal or ps3 signal through a USB cable. That alone is a serious problem because not all consoles work with 4 wires.
Both the ps3 and 360 signals are USB, use a USB cable, and send data over the two wires. This is a rather common mod, and only used on USB based pads. Separate controllers for other systems can still be used with separate cables, but there is no need for multiple USB cables.

The power section is correct, but has 0 protection. Diodes or a switch would be nice.Umm, how is he going to plug that one USB cable into multiple consoles at once?

The signal section is completely wrong. In reality, you'll have the 2 cords for the consoles coming out the back. One plugs into console A and the other console B. You can even have them plugged in at the same time, assuming you have protection on the +5 wire. There is no reason to merge them.
Reasons to merge them:
1. Only one cable hanging out the stick.
2. No need for the mentioned protection because there is only one cable.
3. In this reality, this has been done a whole bunch and works awesome.
Reasons not to merge them:
1. So you can play two consoles simultaneously.


The exception to the rule is what you pointed out. Charging. You do exactly as the photo, no protection at all, for the red and black wires. Forget about the green and grey wires completely. Sounds like some good cable butchering to me. I hope you have spares.
I avoided answering his question because of how difficult it would be an a lot of variables unaccounted for. For example, I have every faith that the picture described would charge the batteries just peachy. However, how are you going to keep both PCB's powered? Remember, the purpose is for a wireless stick. The connections about are for the charging port (Xbox) and the USB connection (PS3). If they aren't plugged in, what's going to make sure they both remain powered? Doing that would require some additional connections between them tapping their true power(the batteries), not the charging line. Also, I've not seen any multimeter measurements of the voltage on the SIXAXIS common line; they could easily be a common high setup. And silly little problems like pressing start on starting up the 360 when you want to play on the PS3.....This is totally one of those 'if you have to ask..' projects, and I think your description is incomplete.

[Kendrik]

Toodles pointed me here when I asked about running multiple PCBs in a single stick (don't ask how I missed the thread... I thought I dug around... guess I didn't dig enough). After reading the entirety of the thread, I think I'm getting a good idea of what needs to be done.

Essentially, I'm going to work on building a stick that has PSX/PS2 output and 360 output. I have a pair of Interact Pro-Shock sticks (though they look identical to the Blaze product of the same name) being shipped here. I also have a pair of Gamecube adapter coming with.

But, I digress... you're not looking for a backstory. ;)

I want to use the Pro-Shock as the PCB base for my PSX/PS2 output. I figure I'll pick up a pair of MadCatz wired 360 controllers to work for the 360 output. Using quick disconnects and terminal strips, the majority of the wiring seems like it should be pretty easy. It seems that I can wire all of the arcade buttons (and the stick) into the terminal strip... then connect the PCBs to the terminal strip in a similar fashion. The only thing it looks like I need to worry about is making sure that the common ground and power lines are connected between the boards (and that I don't try using the stick with multiple systems at the same time... should be easy enough for me).

Taking TMO's diagram as inspiration (more accurately... blatantly ripping off TMO's diagram)... I came up with this. Would anyone be so kind as to make sure that I've got the general idea right?

http://kenny.yeager.googlepages.com/schem.png

The only thing that I'm really curious about, at this point in the game, is why it is necessary to directly connect the common grounds of the PCBs? Aren't they connected via the terminal strip in this case?

Thanks!

Kenny

[GOLDN-NZ]

/\ /\

i am curious about the above post too!

[Starcade RIP]

T

The only thing that I'm really curious about, at this point in the game, is why it is necessary to directly connect the common grounds of the PCBs? Aren't they connected via the terminal strip in this case?

Thanks!

Kenny

You aren't directly connecting the common grounds, IE, the button/pad ground. You directly connect the ground and +V that is coming in from the console.

[Kendrik]

You aren't directly connecting the common grounds, IE, the button/pad ground. You directly connect the ground and +V that is coming in from the console.
Alright... so that's something different. Coming out of that response, then... just to clarify... this connection is made at the point where the the controller cable connects to the PCB, right? Is it best to leave the controller cable alone (not splicing it in any way) and work only with the PCB?

Thanks.

[Starcade RIP]

That's the easy way, yes. Note that if you use this method, under no circumstances should you ever plug in both PCBs at once.

There is another method described in this thread that is more complicated but provides better protection.

[Toodles]

The only thing that I'm really curious about, at this point in the game, is why it is necessary to directly connect the common grounds of the PCBs? Aren't they connected via the terminal strip in this case?
If they are common ground pads like they should be, then ground lines will be connected together the way you have it drawn, and another wire connected grounds won't be neccessary. Connecting the power like IS neccessary.


Alright... so that's something different. Coming out of that response, then... just to clarify... this connection is made at the point where the the controller cable connects to the PCB, right? Is it best to leave the controller cable alone (not splicing it in any way) and work only with the PCB?

Thanks.Starcade's correct. Doing it like you have drawn will work, but offers no protection if you plug the cables into two consoles at the same time; it'd be bad. You can build in protection against such a problem by working with the power lines before it reaches the PCBs. Look for info in this thread regarding switches and diodes.

[Kendrik]

I read a bit about the switch and diode options. I'm not really interested in the switch route (what can I say, Toodles convinced me that it was wasteful... and it restricts future expansion if I don't get a large enough switch). I'll give the diodes more consideration, but I'm not too worried about the lack of protection since I mean to have a cable compartment in my design for cleaner storage when it's not in use; if I'm doing that, there's no real reason to have two cables out at a time... and protection against sending power from two consoles doesn't seem like an issue for me. Seems like this would be an easy solution for anyone, but I'm guessing that others may not necessary disconnect and store their controllers after use.

Thanks for the help.

[Zoogstin]

This was discussed before but I'm still kind of confused.

In what situations would both PCB's be plugged in? Is it just in case some kid comes over and thinks that it would be cool plug in both to see what happens or is there some case where one could accidentally activate both PCB's?

[ulovemikeroch]

This was discussed before but I'm still kind of confused.

In what situations would both PCB's be plugged in? Is it just in case some kid comes over and thinks that it would be cool plug in both to see what happens or is there some case where one could accidentally activate both PCB's?
Depending on which PCB's you use, you could blow the other PCB out.

[Kaytrim]

It works :party: XBox 360, Playstation Dual Shock and my button flash board. Thanks to Toodles for helping me get over the funky response I was getting from the XBox 360 pad. I was able to trace it to a incorrect power point on the playstation pad. BTW, the joystick top lights up too.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/KaytrimsKustoms/R-Jive/Final%20Pics/100_3248.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/KaytrimsKustoms/R-Jive/Final%20Pics/th_100_3251.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/KaytrimsKustoms/R-Jive/Final%20Pics/?action=view&current=100_3251.flv)

[ulovemikeroch]

GodLike

Oh. My. God. Kaytrim, you are amazing. That is an amazing piece of work.

[Toodles]

Where's the light-up stick you were asking about?

[Kaytrim]

Where's the light-up stick you were asking about?

I haven't had time to test that one out yet. I have the parts though. :wgrin:

[TheKoz]

I know this has been asked several times but I just want to make sure that I'm doing this right. I have a madcatz 360 pad and SFAC pad that i want to have in the same stick. When I do the wiring, from my knowledge as of now, I do the following:
1)The 5v(360) gets a wire to the 3.3v(PS2)
2)Connect the Grounds between the two PCBs
3)Then send another ground to the joysticks/buttons from the PCBs (Not too sure on what to do in this step?)

After I have did all of this my PS2 does not respond to any input, and my 360 goes crazy, it starts pushing all the buttons at once lol. I will try and take a picture later on tonight if you guys need, I dont have it with me right now.

[sandrock86]

Where exactly would you find the ground and 3.3v on a psx controller and the ground and 5v on a 360 one. Im trying to hook up a psx pcb with the stock 360 hori ex2 pcb.

[akuma001]

Where exactly would you find the ground and 3.3v on a psx controller and the ground and 5v on a 360 one. Im trying to hook up a psx pcb with the stock 360 hori ex2 pcb.

it won't work since the hori ex2 pcb isn't a common ground.

[DrgnSlyr]

I'm amazed my self that I still got problem after all this thread's explanation and discussion, but T-T it's not working.

I followed exactly that diagram since both of my PCBs are common grounds:
http://www.joystickvault.com/data/507/medium/dual_PCB_diagram.JPG

PCB1 = HRAP2:SA
PCB2 = Cheap ass PC GamePad


I'm not sure u can trace where the wires are going but im pretty sure it's correct
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8879/dsc00065wq4.jpg


When I first made this, i directly tested the USB out, it worked and i thought this is it,
but now (1 week later) i wanted to play on PS2, and discovered that it's not working.


I've tested the voltage across all the buttons/directions when the PS2 cable is pluged,
all of them had 3.3V going throu except 2 of the stick direction which has half the voltage 1.65V,
but still the buttons arn't functioning, any idea what's wrong?

[DrgnSlyr]

please anyone T-T, I don't want to open new topic for this

[Toodles]

Opening a new topic would be a waste. Your description of the setup, what you've done, and the symptoms you're having are all lacking. No one can do anything but guess without enough information.

[DrgnSlyr]

Opening a new topic would be a waste. Your description of the setup, what you've done, and the symptoms you're having are all lacking. No one can do anything but guess without enough information.
OK, can u plz tell me what details u want to know?

I can tell u everything in these lines:

1. the HRAP was working alright in the beggining
2. Added the 2nd PC Pad PCB, it worked OK, but the PS2 connector died
3. the wiring is connected according to the diagram i posted up
4. a 3.3 V is running throu the buttons when the PS2 connector is pluged
5. a 5.0 V is running throu the buttons when the USB is pluged

that's all, if no one could help, i'll have to remove the 2nd board and see if the HRAP
PCB is still working.

[thor777]

couple quick questions, I'm about to add a ps1 digital pad to my HRAP3. I'm planning to solder the button wires directly onto the quick disconnect coming from the HRAP3 PCB. Does it matter which wire I solder on for each button? Both are the same color for each button so I'm not sure which one is ground.

2nd, since the HRAP3 PCB is already grounded, all I need to do is to solder a single ground wire to the HRAP3 PCB ground? I won't need to solder grounds to each individual button and joystick direction, right?

Here