Internet Upload Speed - How can I increase it?

[The Chief]

I've searched the internet and I'm having very little luck finding information on this subject. I even went to Wikipedia and typed in "upload". The result was a two sentence explanation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload).

For a long time now I've been having trouble with my internet service. It seems no matter how much I increase "the speed" online gaming remains unplayable. PS3, Xbox, PC regardless. It seems no matter what I do my online experience is always lag-tastic. It is so choppy that even when I try hosting my character becomes neigh invincible. Yay for broken-ness!

Anyway, I decided to research the issue. I call my service provider and give them hell until they decide to come out an physically check the internet line that runs to my house. I opt to pay top dollar for the MAXIMUM speed they offer. TimeWarner offers "10mb" down and "1mb up"... and according to the techs... I'm getting every bit of it and I agree with him. I've seen my download speeds soar and I've never really payed much attention to the until now.

I'm no expert when it comes to Mega-bytes or Mega-bits... but I know I can count to 10 and recently I've been wondering why that number to the right of the "/" is always so low. It's always a mere fraction to it's counterpart. I started thinking that that number, the "upload speed", could be the reason why online gaming is what it is. Laggy. This is an assumption coming from someone who has gathered loads of undocumented information and came up with a hypothesis of his own, yet, when I continue to think about it my personal hypothesis remains unchanged.

Now I just need to figure out what exactly "Upload Speed" is and wikipedia (and my firewall at work) aren't helping.

Calling SRK International Internet Conglomerate Customer Service.

[platinum_pinoy]

I was told it wasn't upload that affects lag, but moreso pinging. The lower the ping the less lag there is.

[fjf314]

but I know I can count to 10 and recently I've been wondering why that number to the right of the "/" is always so low. It's always a mere fraction to it's counterpart.

That's likely just because most things you'll do online require far more downloading than uploading. If you want to view a web-page, for example, your machine simply has to upload a small request to the web server for the page. In turn, you download the entire page, all of the images on it, etc. Thus, there is far more to download than upload. That's why connections typically also have a much higher download than upload, you likely don't need it. I don't really play games on my computer, but I would highly doubt that the upload is your problem.

[CarreauOverkill]

Download = receive data. Upload = send data.

Download is your mouth and upload is your ass. You can receive a lot, your body can digest it, but when it's time to poop, you run into problems!

Cable ISPs do this lame thing where they oversell the connections and thus limit the upload because they can't offer more.

Possible problems:

- Malicious crap on computer that hogs bandwidth
- Busted cablemodem
- Old wirings in your house

Crappy upload speed means you don't send the other person or server information about what you do, while still receiving information about what the other person does.

[Gasp]

http://www.speedtest.net/

[sixtymhz]

hrmm... no problems here.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/217704835.png

[AcEtUrNeDjOkEr]

hrmm... no problems here.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/217704835.png

!!! You have TWC right???

[Rooks4]

This should have been posted in the tech forums, FYI.

Upload likely has nothing to do with your gaming issues. What you need to do is find out the IP address of where you are connecting. If it's an issue with XBOX, PS3, and PC gaming, then it's likely there is an overloaded router somewhere close to your house. Pull up the command line and type in the following, for example:

C:\> tracert www.google.com

What you'll see is hop-by-hop a breakdown of the average ping to that hop, and there are multiple hops to your destination. Basically you are querying your ping to each router between you and the server you want to play on (in this case, googles servers.) what you'll be able to tell is A) where is the bottlenecks and B) who is responsible for that router. If it's somewhere in one of the main AT&T pipelines (or whatever your ISP eventually dumps you on), then there's nothing you can do. If it's a local router (i.e. 1-3 hops away from you, most likely) then your ISP needs to get their shit together, and you can push the issue with the tracert log as proof that their Hardware is faulty or insufficient.

The only way to get around a hop issue down the pipe is to attempt resetting your ip, which for some reason occasionally will give you a different path through the hops, or change your ISP which may or may not dump you across different hops than your current ISP.

Hopefully I didn't dumb this down too much - if you need a better explanation feel free to let me know, and if I am incorrect anywhere, others can feel free to correct me. I've had limited experience with this type of issue, but this is what I went through to try and resolve it.

[The Chief]

I was told it wasn't upload that affects lag, but moreso pinging. The lower the ping the less lag there is.

Exactly, I'm told that too. I guess I need to research what exactly is a "ping". I mean I know it's the basically the amount of time it takes to send and receive data (or packets) over the internet... and in most cases (well in my case) the speed is measured in "ms" which I'm assuming is "mili-seconds". I also would like to know what type of data is in a packet being sent? 1byte? 1kb?

The size of the "packet" being sent would make a huge impact on just how valuable "ping" is.

Also ping is hugely dependent on the distance between you and the destination of the ping. I would probably assume that increasing the amount of download speed as well as upload speed would help shorten time time needed to complete distance. Distance right? I can't be all about download alone... can it?

That's likely just because most things you'll do online require far more downloading than uploading. If you want to view a web-page, for example, your machine simply has to upload a small request to the web server for the page. In turn, you download the entire page, all of the images on it, etc. Thus, there is far more to download than upload. That's why connections typically also have a much higher download than upload, you likely don't need it. I don't really play games on my computer, but I would highly doubt that the upload is your problem.

This make so much sense too and is well understood, but what if you step out of the internet and look at an environment where the amount of information being sent is JUST AS important as the information being received i.e. online gaming?

You system download 10mb of the hosts information and uploads 700kb-1mb of yours. Wouldn't this explain why Hosts have HUGE advantages when playing games online?

Wouldn't that mean that if you could at least increase your upload speed buy even more mb, you would see a clearly noticeable difference when playing games online?

Again these are hypothesis coming from someone who in not knowledgeable on the subject of internet and it's related jargon.

[The Chief]

!!! You have TWC right???

Doubt it.

They max out at 1 meg up unless you go to a business account where the cap is 5megs up for about $400.00 monthly.

My speedtests show 9970+ Down and 980+ up on average with that site. I want to increase the up.

Verizon Fios offers 15down and 15up. I'm an 90% sure that was a type-o but with the feed back and results I've seen with online gaming on fios, I doubt it.

[The Chief]

This should have been posted in the tech forums, FYI.

Upload likely has nothing to do with your gaming issues. What you need to do is find out the IP address of where you are connecting. If it's an issue with XBOX, PS3, and PC gaming, then it's likely there is an overloaded router somewhere close to your house. Pull up the command line and type in the following, for example:

C:\> tracert www.google.com

What you'll see is hop-by-hop a breakdown of the average ping to that hop, and there are multiple hops to your destination. Basically you are querying your ping to each router between you and the server you want to play on (in this case, googles servers.) what you'll be able to tell is A) where is the bottlenecks and B) who is responsible for that router. If it's somewhere in one of the main AT&T pipelines (or whatever your ISP eventually dumps you on), then there's nothing you can do. If it's a local router (i.e. 1-3 hops away from you, most likely) then your ISP needs to get their shit together, and you can push the issue with the tracert log as proof that their Hardware is faulty or insufficient.

The only way to get around a hop issue down the pipe is to attempt resetting your ip, which for some reason occasionally will give you a different path through the hops, or change your ISP which may or may not dump you across different hops than your current ISP.

Hopefully I didn't dumb this down too much - if you need a better explanation feel free to let me know, and if I am incorrect anywhere, others can feel free to correct me. I've had limited experience with this type of issue, but this is what I went through to try and resolve it.

I've done these tests. There are no hops. No packet loss and almost always on a directly connected line to the modem.

Are ya'll 100% sure that online gaming has nothing to do with Upload speeds?

[KING]

Jermaine, I have TWC also. My package is the same as yours. Here are my results:


http://www.speedtest.net/result/217718828.png


seems accurate to me. :wonder:

hrmm... no problems here.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/217704835.png
GODDAMN. :looney:

What's "Red Hat"? An independent provider?

[The Chief]

Doubt it.

They max out at 1 meg up unless you go to a business account where the cap is 5megs up for about $400.00 monthly.

My speedtests show 9970+ Down and 980+ up on average with that site. I want to increase the up.

Verizon Fios offers 15down and 15up. I'm an 90% sure that was a type-o but with the feed back and results I've seen with online gaming on fios, I doubt it.

Thai ---^

I know we've played fine when we play together online on various games. I'm just looking to increase the experience and I figured upload was where to look.

[Shade]

Damn Chief with the tripple post. Edit function, son.

[KING]

Doubt it.

They max out at 1 meg up unless you go to a business account where the cap is 5megs up for about $400.00 monthly.

My speedtests show 9970+ Down and 980+ up on average with that site. I want to increase the up.

Verizon Fios offers 15down and 15up. I'm an 90% sure that was a type-o but with the feed back and results I've seen with online gaming on fios, I doubt it.
with Verizon, isn't it with fiber optic connections, though? that's the latest hype...fiber optic. my area's barely just got it i think...

Thai ---^

I know we've played fine when we play together online on various games. I'm just looking to increase the experience and I figured upload was where to look.

http://www22.verizon.com/content/consumerfios/about+fiostv/about+fios.htm

[The Chief]

Damn Chief with the tripple post. Edit function, son.

lol The thread was less active than I previously thought. :sweat:

[KING]

if you have fiber optic in your area, GO GET IT!

[Rooks4]

snip

See my post above yours for some of the information you are looking for. Again, upload is nearly insignificant in the issue with lag during gaming sessions. The advantage the host gets is that he plays on 0 ping, because it's a local game to him. It has nothing to do with upload or anything else.

Internet games require a minimal amount of uploading from your system to the server. Its normally limited to positional data and some "you clicked this button" messages. It's hard to explain in more detail without an example, so here is one:

Counter-Strike works this way, or did when I was really into it. (Cal-M FTW bleh)
The server is running the game. When you move your player, the client (your PC) shows you moving and then sends the data as fast as it can to the server, which updates your position in the game 'officially.' When you shoot, you may see the action immediately on your screen, but what really happens is that you see the shoot animation, and your PC sends a packet to the server telling it that you just shot. The server then applies a correction factor, based on your ping, looks at where you were aiming, and decides wether you hit or not. This explains why, when you shoot late at someone after they've moved out of your crosshairs, that you still score a hit.

It's a way to minimize the data that you have to upload to the server, whereas a LOT of data is being transmitted to you - such as the positions of all the other players (to be displayed on your map), and kills, cash gains, hostage rescues/deaths, etc etc. There is much more the server needs to tell your client to be displayed, then you need to send to the server.

That being said, ping is really what is called "latency" which is normally calculated in milliseconds. Here's the wiki explanation:

ping is a computer network tool used to test whether a particular host is reachable across an IP network. It works by sending ICMP “echo request” packets to the target host and listening for ICMP “echo response” replies. ping estimates the round-trip time, generally in milliseconds, and records any packet loss, and prints a statistical summary when finished.


In lamens terms, ping provides you with a measure of latency from A->B->A. it's figureing out how long it takes for you to send something to the server, and for it to respond. Bandwidth, which is what the ISP labels are, such as 10MB/S, is the smount of bandwidth you are alotted over the network. It's how MUCH you can send in a given amount of time. So you can receive 10MB/s throughput with your service, but that data takes (x) latency to get from the server to you.. so your bandwidth over time is decreased from it's maximum with high latency networks.

You can read more with simple google searches to understand a more in depth relationship between Latency and Bandwidth, but it sounds like the OP has a latency problem and can probably identify it with a simple tracert from the command line.

I've done these tests. There are no hops. No packet loss and almost always on a directly connected line to the modem.

Are ya'll 100% sure that online gaming has nothing to do with Upload speeds?

This doesn't make any sense.. what do you mean there are NO hops? There is always hops over the internet, unless you are playing local games and hosting your own server (which, over XBOX and PS3, you arent... unless it's a modded system.) Are you playing local hosted games? or are you misuing the word hop? You should see something like this...

C:\Documents and Settings\rooks>tracert www.google.com

Tracing route to www.l.google.com [209.85.165.99]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms mywork [workip]
2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms mywork hop [another workip]
3 16 ms 10 ms 8 ms mywork hop [another workip]
4 7 ms 14 ms 5 ms mywork hop [another workip]
5 54 ms 47 ms 57 ms mywork hop [another workip]]
6 57 ms 51 ms 50 ms mywork hop [another workip].89]
7 ...

Thats 6 hops, all on my works internal network. As you can see, around hop 5 the ms increase significantly, which could indicate its a more centralized router and more traffic is going through it.

what do you mean you don't have any hops? did I misunderstand?

[The Chief]

with Verizon, isn't it with fiber optic connections, though? that's the latest hype...fiber optic. my area's barely just got it i think...



http://www22.verizon.com/content/consumerfios/about+fiostv/about+fios.htm

I tried to buy a house in Lewisville just to get that service. It's not available where I live now. I would already have the premium package.

...but looking at those numbers... why is their online gameing so - perfect? I've played games on AND OFF host on a Verizon connection and it feels like your hosting even when playing people in Japan... and what is so different than what TimeWarner offers? the 5+ more megs down? Or the +15 megs up!?

If I had to guess I wouldn't think 5 more megs down would be a huge differcnce when you already have 10. So looking at the15mb up from the weak 500-700kb, I'd like to think that's at lease part of the reason.

If you look at all of Fios's plans, thier upload speeds double what other "residential providers" have.

... most business/commercial services offer upload speeds that match the download speed. So if you do a speed test "from work" seeing 6000+ on both ends is the norm... here I'll do one too:

The link above blocked for me at work... but this one isn't - http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/Th3Ch13f/Speedtest.jpg

[Rooks4]

snip

Fiber Optic is fast because it travels at the speed of light (duh.) Your data is transmitted from your house, to your ISP, to the main internet backbones faster than it would over cable or DSL. The Bandwidth doesnt matter, it has lower latency because the data itself travels faster over that medium. You'll have less latency (ping) with Fiber.

DSL is normally faster than cable.. Im guessing verizon above is DSL, where as TWC (Time Warner Cable) is a cable connection. Cable is a shared connection and normally branches out to neighborhoods, which than get consolidated up the pipe until it reaches the ISP, who then dumps it onto the larger internet backbones.. Therefore, cable normally has a higher associated latency with it - except in rare cases where you are one of the only few people using it at any point in time, or are one of the few who have it in your neighborhood.

DSL is a dedicated line to you and you only. It's not shared among many people in your neighborhood and branched - therefore, the latency is better which is good for gaming. However it travels over phone lines, so the bandwidth potential is less - although this doesn't really make that much of a difference unless you are downloading 100s of megabytes a day.

[The Chief]

...usefull info...

Ok. This information is valuable and I am failure with most of it.

According to the tech that helped me clarify what my issue is... my connection appeared to have no errors or issuse or data lost. I usually directly connect via ethernet cable (from console to router) to whatever I want to use in order to maximize the speed of the connection as much as possible.

We used DOS command prompts and pinged several servers and got consistent results.

If I'm am the host of an online game via... say... Xbox and I am directly connected to the modem how many "hops" should that be?

Fiber Optic is fast because it travels at the speed of light (duh.) Your data is transmitted from your house, to your ISP, to the main internet backbones faster than it would over cable or DSL. The Bandwidth doesnt matter, it has lower latency because the data itself travels faster over that medium. You'll have less latency (ping) with Fiber.

DSL is normally faster than cable.. Im guessing verizon above is DSL, where as TWC (Time Warner Cable) is a cable connection. Cable is a shared connection and normally branches out to neighborhoods, which than get consolidated up the pipe until it reaches the ISP, who then dumps it onto the larger internet backbones.. Therefore, cable normally has a higher associated latency with it - except in rare cases where you are one of the only few people using it at any point in time, or are one of the few who have it in your neighborhood.

DSL is a dedicated line to you and you only. It's not shared among many people in your neighborhood and branched - therefore, the latency is better which is good for gaming. However it travels over phone lines, so the bandwidth potential is less - although this doesn't really make that much of a difference unless you are downloading 100s of megabytes a day.

Hmm... I understood that this was the reason why fios was so fast... because it was a directl line to your house only like DSL.

That explains why 10 megs of broadband sometimes feels similar to 7 megs of DSL too.

So since the reason why fios is so fast is because it travels at the speed of light... does that mean that it doesn't matter wether your speed is 5megs or 15 megs? Because regaurdless of the download/upload, your information is being sent faster than broadband or dsl?

Does that mean that regaurdless of how much download/uplead speed I boost my broadband to my online gaming experience won't change?

[Rooks4]

Im laeving work, so I don't have time to give a detailed response - but here it goes.

Eventually increaseing your download/upload bandwidth won't matter. You aren't capping these out when you are playing games, so it's not your bottleneck. LATENCY is the issue here. However, when you are hosting on the original XBOX, the CPU could also be an issue depending on what you are playing. Those boxes weren't designed to act as servers, so you could be overloading it which could cause hickups while you play an online game.

You are correct in that if you are hosting a game, there are zero hops. People who connect to your game server will experience latency, where you should experience none. If you aren't having a perfectly smooth game on your end, it means that either you are overloading your XBOXs CPU or possibly its Graphics capabilities. I don't know what you are playing or how many people are connected, but if you are the server, your upload speed COULD be an issue. Servers have to send out a lot of data to ALL clients, so unless you have a business class connection (which is designed to host servers, and therefore has a larger upload capacity) i wouldn't suggest hosting large games (as in, lots of users connecting to you.)

[The Chief]

Im laeving work, so I don't have time to give a detailed response - but here it goes.

Eventually increaseing your download/upload bandwidth won't matter. You aren't capping these out when you are playing games, so it's not your bottleneck. LATENCY is the issue here. However, when you are hosting on the original XBOX, the CPU could also be an issue depending on what you are playing. Those boxes weren't designed to act as servers, so you could be overloading it which could cause hickups while you play an online game.

You are correct in that if you are hosting a game, there are zero hops. People who connect to your game server will experience latency, where you should experience none. If you aren't having a perfectly smooth game on your end, it means that either you are overloading your XBOXs CPU or possibly its Graphics capabilities. I don't know what you are playing or how many people are connected, but if you are the server, your upload speed COULD be an issue. Servers have to send out a lot of data to ALL clients, so unless you have a business class connection (which is designed to host servers, and therefore has a larger upload capacity) i wouldn't suggest hosting large games (as in, lots of users connecting to you.)

I tried to rep you but I've done that sometime in the past.

I know your leaving work and may not catch this in time, but I'll throw it out there in case you get it later.

When I host my connection is seemless - for me, but in turn, my opponents suddenly have the ability to teleport. Your explanation explains why and it is exactly what I guessed it would be. I figured my "unit" isn't sending the necessary information fast enough. I doubted there was another problem. This is why I put my focus on the upload speed.

I mean, not everyone really cares as long as their game runs smooth but more and more people are wondering why "shot-lag" and other online slow downs take place. Wouldn't it be easy to assume that since information that is sent over the net is called "upload"... wether it's bullets for counterstrike, a punch in ST, or a request for a page... it could be speed up by increasing how fast the information is uploaded!? Wouldn't it be easy to assume that if my console uploaded that I shot where I did when I did at 10mpbs, the shot would happen much faster than it would at 700kbps?

I would rather send my information faster than receive information from someone else when it comes to online gameing. I imagine the only way to do that is to increase upload speed. Even if the game runs smooth and the lag is well hidden, a player can still tell when somethings aren't happening the way they should.

[KING]

...time to look at a house in Lewisville, Jermaine! :woot:

...at least it gives me an excuse to play games at your casa more often. lol. ;p

[The Chief]

I forgot you lived there! lol

I'll see where my finances take me in the next 2 years. I currently own a mortgage in Mesquite (lightyears away from you for any type of gaming purposes though) and probably won't move unless something better is within reach. Lewisville didn't want to work with me... all they had to do was say free fios and I would've be sold.

Feel free to come by. Matrix has once already.

[Gasp]

oh how i yearn for dat FiOS

[KING]

I forgot you lived there! lol

I'll see where my finances take me in the next 2 years. I currently own a mortgage in Mesquite (lightyears away from you for any type of gaming purposes though) and probably won't move unless something better is within reach. Lewisville didn't want to work with me... all they had to do was say free fios and I would've be sold.

Feel free to come by. Matrix has once already....I live in The Colony...less than 15 minutes from the Tekken House.:wonder:

lol probably on the weekends, at best. teaching takes up too much time. :sweat:

[The Chief]

...I live in The Colony...less than 15 minutes from the Tekken House.:wonder:

lol probably on the weekends, at best. teaching takes up too much time. :sweat:

Following in Dark Geese's footsteps!?!?

I planned on going over there soon. I owe Buktooth $20. Let me know when you're heading over there I'll stop by. I also heard Buk's been trying to teach JOP and E.P. how to play CvS2. lol

I'll need to check out how that's goin.

[platinum_pinoy]

Exactly, I'm told that too. I guess I need to research what exactly is a "ping". I mean I know it's the basically the amount of time it takes to send and receive data (or packets) over the internet... and in most cases (well in my case) the speed is measured in "ms" which I'm assuming is "mili-seconds". I also would like to know what type of data is in a packet being sent? 1byte? 1kb?

The size of the "packet" being sent would make a huge impact on just how valuable "ping" is.

Also ping is hugely dependent on the distance between you and the destination of the ping. I would probably assume that increasing the amount of download speed as well as upload speed would help shorten time time needed to complete distance. Distance right? I can't be all about download alone... can it?


Here is the best analogy for pinging I can think of. Let's say that having large download and upload rates is like having a big bus whereas having a extremely good ping is like having a ferarri.

When "downloading/uploading", you are able to send massive amounts of data every trip from your computer to a server/someone else's computer (let's say 700k), however, it may take up to 2 seconds (2000milliseconds) per trip.

When having good ping, you are able to send data really fast between computers/servers (2 milliseconds, which is 1000 times faster in previous analogy) , but only a very small amount of data (let's say 10k).

Obviously, having massive download rates is far beneficial, but, online gaming only requires button inputs which I was told is only a few kilobytes. That's why fighting games play like shit because at times you're inputting 5 button commands just for a fireball (d, d and f, f, punch) in less than 1/6th of a second whereas an FPS game doesn't ask as much. I've played CvS2 on the XBox and its barely playable (one person vs. one person) whereas I've played Warhawk on the PS3 with 32 people in one game and there was no lag. Perhaps lag has gotten better since then, but what do I know.

[Rooks4]

^^ is correct. I was going to use the garden hose as an example, it might help to reiterate so here it is:

Bandwidth (700kbps, fo rinstance) is the width of the hose.. A thin hose can only move small amounts of water at a time, like a garden hose. A hose on a firetruck however, can move much larger quantities of water because its wider.

Latency is the length of the hose. A very short hose gets the water from the spigot to the end of the hose very quickly, whereas a very long hose may take water a few seconds to exit the hose.

They are very different entities, but are related to a point. You need the hose to be wide enough to handle all the data you need to send at a time, and the hose needs to be short enough to get there in a timely manner. If your hose is very long nad you are having a problem due to latency, making the hose wider doesn't solve your problem - it can only go so fast, no matter how much room you give it to move.

Hopefully this clears it up a bit.

[The Chief]

When "downloading/uploading", you are able to send massive amounts of data every trip from your computer to a server/someone else's computer (let's say 700k), however, it may take up to 2 seconds (2000milliseconds) per trip.

When having good ping, you are able to send data really fast between computers/servers (2 milliseconds, which is 1000 times faster in previous analogy) , but only a very small amount of data (let's say 10k).

Obviously, having massive download rates is far beneficial, but, online gaming only requires button inputs which I was told is only a few kilobytes. That's why fighting games play like shit because at times you're inputting 5 button commands just for a fireball (d, d and f, f, punch) in less than 1/6th of a second whereas an FPS game doesn't ask as much. I've played CvS2 on the XBox and its barely playable (one person vs. one person) whereas I've played Warhawk on the PS3 with 32 people in one game and there was no lag. Perhaps lag has gotten better since then, but what do I know.

"Every trip", so a ping doesn't constantly happen. It only occurs when and input/command/request is initiated on either end?

So since the data sent during online gaming is only a few kilo bytes (I'm assuming it's per command rather than in total per each ping), on averager, the data uploaded from one xbox to another probably never even comes close to 1MB ever. Meaning that increasing upload or download is pointless and a 2mb/700k would be more than enough.

Got it.

^^ is correct. I was going to use the garden hose as an example, it might help to reiterate so here it is:

Bandwidth (700kbps, fo rinstance) is the width of the hose.. A thin hose can only move small amounts of water at a time, like a garden hose. A hose on a firetruck however, can move much larger quantities of water because its wider.

Latency is the length of the hose. A very short hose gets the water from the spigot to the end of the hose very quickly, whereas a very long hose may take water a few seconds to exit the hose.

They are very different entities, but are related to a point. You need the hose to be wide enough to handle all the data you need to send at a time, and the hose needs to be short enough to get there in a timely manner. If your hose is very long nad you are having a problem due to latency, making the hose wider doesn't solve your problem - it can only go so fast, no matter how much room you give it to move.

Hopefully this clears it up a bit.

It does. Thanks again.

If data that is sent from console to console is in fact only a couple of kb per command then I guess the only way to fix lag issues is by shortening ping.

Is there any way to find out just how much information is sent per command? And maybe an average total per ping during online gaming?

[AdverseSolutions]

can anyone help me with a torrent issue? whenever i'm using utorrent, my http browsing gets suuper slow. sometimes i can barely post anything. i wanna have my torrents going at the same time that i'm surfing the net, how can i do that?

[Gasp]

im gonna go out and say that you should limit utorrents bandwidth allocation.

i have a question too
when i start downloading stuff via utorrent or p2p overnight, whenever i turn off the downloading client my internet connection starts to lose its stability and sometimes goes out for a few hours or a day.

any clue as to why it does that? i

[Rooks4]

If data that is sent from console to console is in fact only a couple of kb per command then I guess the only way to fix lag issues is by shortening ping.

Correct, or improve the network codes extrapolation. Although that's probably not an option.


Is there any way to find out just how much information is sent per command? And maybe an average total per ping during online gaming?
You can hook up a packet sniffer to your network - so you'll have to connect the XBOX to a hub of some sort (or shit, maybe you can find one for the XBOX.. I've never looked) and run a sniffer on your PC and it will tell you exactly how many packets are going over your network, and what their size is. This will at least tell you, in bytes, how much data is going in and out of your network at any one time. However, these tools aren't exactly easy to use if you've never seen them before... I don't know your computer expertise but if you've got some buddies who are into IT, they should be able to help you.


can anyone help me with a torrent issue? whenever i'm using utorrent, my http browsing gets suuper slow. sometimes i can barely post anything. i wanna have my torrents going at the same time that i'm surfing the net, how can i do that?

How much are you downloading/uploading? It's going to slow down if you are maxing out your bandwidth on the connections. If you are downloading 300kbps+ or whatever your cap is limited to, your web browsing is going to slow down beacuse its being starved for bandwidth. It could also be an issue with your upload, because if you are allowing for the upload of packets to the torrent tracker you can be maxing out your upload, which means IExplorer(or your choice of browser) is going to be starved for bandwidth when it's attempting to send a request to the DNS server, or web server to retrieve the appropriate web page.

At least, that's my quick analysis without looking at it in person :)


have a question too
when i start downloading stuff via utorrent or p2p overnight, whenever i turn off the downloading client my internet connection starts to lose its stability and sometimes goes out for a few hours or a day.

What is your ISP? I've heard nasty rumors of Cox and TWC in particular areas looking for p2p traffic, and cuts the connection for some limited amount of time to stop it from use. There's been a huge backlash by the p2p community because there are a lot of legal transmissions over that medium, and so I think some of these ISPs are backing off this practice.

A google search will show if you are connect to one of these ISPs in the areas where they were practicing it - if it's not that particular issue, im not sure what it could be. How are you closing out your uTorrent? Does the system come back up properly with a PC restart? It could be that the program isn't properly closing sockets and therefore despite you closing the program, the data continues to flow hogging up your bandwidth.

If that's also not the case, I'd try getting a replacement modem... not sure where else to go from there.

Maybe a mod can move this to the tech forums?

[AdverseSolutions]

rooks, problem is that even when i'm at 0kbps my net is basically really hampered. workable but a lot of pages will not connect...so yeah i can reduce my dl speed, but shouldn't it possible to restrict http traffic to an http port and the torrent traffic to the torrent port??

[Rooks4]

rooks, problem is that even when i'm at 0kbps my net is basically really hampered. workable but a lot of pages will not connect...so yeah i can reduce my dl speed, but shouldn't it possible to restrict http traffic to an http port and the torrent traffic to the torrent port??

That's an interesting problem... the traffic is already restricted to the proper ports - I don't think http and torrent use the same ports, and those are bound by the sockets.. I don't know a LOT about socket programming, but I know each opens over a particular socket which is defined by the application - so that shouldn't be an issue.

Im assuming you've already checked your Task Manager when this occurs to see if something is jacking your resources? Check the Network Monitor and the Processes to see if something is hoarding them.... Is your web browsing only slow as you open the site in a new window? Or slow as you browse from site-to-site? Either way, it's an interesting phenomenon... I'd try installing an alternate browser just to see if the behavior repeats, since that is a pretty simple check.

[white shadow]

Don't get Vista.

[The Chief]

...packet sniffer...

Well I don't have an extra $1000 dollars... I'll either have to "shop" elsewhere or ask someone to check their xbox for me. I would assume that the consoles operate at the same speeds... right?

[Gasp]

yea im under TWC in the southern california region. so thats probably the case. its definitely not the computer because the modem will cut out for a while (a few hours to a few DAYS) different machines all ran utorrent and a file-> exit to close em but its still iffy.

at first i though it was my modem overheating but no i think your right.
im gonna go home and test this and if its still the same im gonna look in to getting dsl or something else.
i cant live with this bullshit. piracy is the life.


ps rooks: are you in the networking field? im trying to get my foot in that door.

[Rooks4]

Well I don't have an extra $1000 dollars... I'll either have to "shop" elsewhere or ask someone to check their xbox for me. I would assume that the consoles operate at the same speeds... right?

I think you misunderstand, or maybe I did in my response. If you want to know the amount of data being sent (not the latency, but the bandwidth that you are using) you can use a packet sniffer on the network. There are software applications you can get, free, that will monitor the network and display to a screen every single packet passed to and from your internal network. You can then figure out, using this program, which packets are coming from your XBOX, and then you can calculate how much bandwidth the XBOX requires while you play these games.. Each game will be different, as different data is required to pass between client(s) and server. The number of people connected is also a factor, if you can play against more than 1 person at a time.

There are also some routers which have tools that display this in real time... I've never tried it, but you should be able to connect to your router via 192.168.0.1 or whatever the IP has been set to, and use some sort of monitor that tells you how much bandwidth you are using. However, this would require you to get a router (50-100~$) at Best Buy and hook the XBOX into that, instead of directly to your modem.

The modem itself may have similar tools, but I don't have admin access to my cable modem at home as its leased to me by my ISP provider, so I'd have no idea how to help you there :)


ps rooks: are you in the networking field? im trying to get my foot in that door.
I got my BS in Computer Science, which did wonders for theory and 'how shit works' in relation to computers.. I was also working at the time as an intern for a company where myself and a friend were the sole IT support for the entire company. We built their network and managed it, but it was really more my friend than myself. I pick up shit here and there, but I really am no expert whatsoever, don't let my posts fool you :)

If you want to get into it, I highly recommend a CS degree as a focus and work on getting an Internship. Its much more valuable IMO than any of the certifications out there. You'll also learn a shitload of programming skills, which will help you with scripting tasks which is a SysAdmins bread and butter :)

Im a software engineer now, beacuse I prefered the programming to all the other bullshit poor sysAdmins have to go through day in and day out. I actually had to assist people on how to save documents in Microsoft Word when I was an intern - it was funny at first, but day after day helping the same people with the same shit became painful. I couldn't handle it.

[AdverseSolutions]

That's an interesting problem... the traffic is already restricted to the proper ports - I don't think http and torrent use the same ports, and those are bound by the sockets.. I don't know a LOT about socket programming, but I know each opens over a particular socket which is defined by the application - so that shouldn't be an issue.

Im assuming you've already checked your Task Manager when this occurs to see if something is jacking your resources? Check the Network Monitor and the Processes to see if something is hoarding them.... Is your web browsing only slow as you open the site in a new window? Or slow as you browse from site-to-site? Either way, it's an interesting phenomenon... I'd try installing an alternate browser just to see if the behavior repeats, since that is a pretty simple check.

you know what man you and gasp were right. the phenomenon i reported at 0kbps was just when i was starting utorrent, waiting for dhcp login. at this stage the program is ALLOCATING 300kbps for me i believe, and so web browsing becomes basically impossible. setting my maxes to 100 d and 50 u lets me browse the net no problem. thanks man.

[AdverseSolutions]

double post due to douche internet connection

[The Chief]

I think you misunderstand, or maybe I did in my response. If you want to know the amount of data being sent (not the latency, but the bandwidth that you are using) you can use a packet sniffer on the network. There are software applications you can get, free, that will monitor the network and display to a screen every single packet passed to and from your internal network. You can then figure out, using this program, which packets are coming from your XBOX, and then you can calculate how much bandwidth the XBOX requires while you play these games.. Each game will be different, as different data is required to pass between client(s) and server. The number of people connected is also a factor, if you can play against more than 1 person at a time.

There are also some routers which have tools that display this in real time... I've never tried it, but you should be able to connect to your router via 192.168.0.1 or whatever the IP has been set to, and use some sort of monitor that tells you how much bandwidth you are using. However, this would require you to get a router (50-100~$) at Best Buy and hook the XBOX into that, instead of directly to your modem.

The modem itself may have similar tools, but I don't have admin access to my cable modem at home as its leased to me by my ISP provider, so I'd have no idea how to help you there :)

Oh ok. I just googled packet sniffer cause I never heard of it. Pulled up a bunch of software packages and crap that cost thousands. What I meant by "shop" was looking at "free" software applications.

I was asking if someone else who has a 360 with similar games and possibly the packet sniffer software to run the tests. I had assumed that 360 consoles operate at the similar speeds so a generic average would be good to know. Testing games like Gears or Halo or some sort. Just for a generic number.

Unless, you would agree that the average size of a packet pinged from an xbox is never over 1mb, then I would't need that info.

[Rooks4]

snip.

Ok - i am getting confused again. You are playing a modded XBOX360, where you actually host the games? Or do you connect to XBOX LIVE and then click "Start a Game" and then invite your friends?

I thought you were running a modded XBOX, which would actually allow you to bypass XBOX Live and you would then ACTUALLY be the server. If you are playing over XBOX LIVE, it could be quite different - i'd have to look into what game exactly are you playing, and how does their multiplayer work to give you better information..

[The Chief]

Ok - i am getting confused again. You are playing a modded XBOX360, where you actually host the games? Or do you connect to XBOX LIVE and then click "Start a Game" and then invite your friends?

I thought you were running a modded XBOX, which would actually allow you to bypass XBOX Live and you would then ACTUALLY be the server. If you are playing over XBOX LIVE, it could be quite different - i'd have to look into what game exactly are you playing, and how does their multiplayer work to give you better information..

Ah no no... I do own a Modded Xbox but my concerns are with playing a non-modded 360 over Xbox Live.

[Gasp]

rooks: cool right now im getting an associates in computer networking systems cuz i got played by garbage ass ITT. schools worthless. im done with it in september then im gonna try and get a degree at a cc for something better. im working on getting certs right now as well.

adverse: Button_M4sh = Gasp <3

[AdverseSolutions]

rooks: cool right now im getting an associates in computer networking systems cuz i got played by garbage ass ITT. schools worthless. im done with it in september then im gonna try and get a degree at a cc for something better. im working on getting certs right now as well.

adverse: Button_M4sh = Gasp <3

wtf you HOMO

what happened to grief?!

[Gasp]

Gasp "feels" better

[Rooks4]

Ah no no... I do own a Modded Xbox but my concerns are with playing a non-modded 360 over Xbox Live.

Ok - What game are you playing? In most cases when you play over XBOX Live you aren't actually hosting the game, you are just initiating a new instance of the game on a game server either hosted by a the games company or by XBOX Live itself (i think.) Maybe the Arcade games have code where it connects users to your actual box, but then that'd be all fucked up with routers and stuff, since they couldn't account for them.

My guess is you are actually connecting to a game server, which means you need to check your route to that server and see if you are having a latency issue with a hop on the way to it. Calling support isn't going to help, because they aren't going to take the same route from their data center to your XBOX, and your data may not be going to their servers, it could be going to a HALO server or whatever agme you are playing, which would be hosted by the game company, not necessarily XBOXLive.

Which games in particular are you having issues with? The more detail you give me, the better I can help you :)

[AdverseSolutions]

Gasp "feels" better

you caught me off guard, david blaine style. 'you demon!!'

damn it doesn't even come up on a youtube search. not an obscure band? fair nuff.

[Gasp]

you caught me off guard, david blaine style. 'you demon!!'

damn it doesn't even come up on a youtube search. not an obscure band? fair nuff.

obscure indeed, ambient/electro drone/powerviolence from southern california
but i like the name more than anything.
http://www.mediafire.com/?fxbytztmtsm

edit: pass is "crustmas.blogspot.com"

[The Chief]

Ok - What game are you playing? In most cases when you play over XBOX Live you aren't actually hosting the game, you are just initiating a new instance of the game on a game server either hosted by a the games company or by XBOX Live itself (i think.) Maybe the Arcade games have code where it connects users to your actual box, but then that'd be all fucked up with routers and stuff, since they couldn't account for them.

My guess is you are actually connecting to a game server, which means you need to check your route to that server and see if you are having a latency issue with a hop on the way to it. Calling support isn't going to help, because they aren't going to take the same route from their data center to your XBOX, and your data may not be going to their servers, it could be going to a HALO server or whatever agme you are playing, which would be hosted by the game company, not necessarily XBOXLive.

Which games in particular are you having issues with? The more detail you give me, the better I can help you :)
Exactly. The games I usually play online with the 360 are Gears of War and Halo 3, but I stopped playing them both becaise of the issues I'm having. I only LAN now.

If I can figure out what the problem is and fix it, I'd jump online again and possible play other games online more.

[Gasp]

rooks: do you know if verizon is doing the same thing with their services?

im probably switching from TWC's 1.5 MB x 384 KB to Verizons 3 MB x 768 KB for the same price. although im iffy about xDSL, isnt it unreliable?

[The Chief]

U-Verse vs FiOs!?

Which is better?

[Rooks4]

They look about the same, except the AT&T U-Verse says it MIGHT be Fiber. FiOs *IS* Fiber for sure. AT&T may just put you on over-the-wire DSL or some shit as your internet connection or something... Wikipedia has a nice writeup on both - take a look and make your own decision :)

[The Chief]

Rook = great information source.

I did some extensive reading on fiber optics on wiki, yahoo, ask, whatever I could find. I learned that Verizon FiOs runs fiber to the house (FTTH) and U-Verse runs Fiber to the node (FTTN).

Since talking to rook and everyone else who contributed to the thread... all I care about is ping.

Verizon FiOs isn't available where I live, but the day after I created this topic, AT&T knocked on my door to tell me the U-Verse is now available here. Of course as soon as he said "fiber" I told him to hook me up.

...but I still have questions.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that FTTH is fast than FTTN. I can care less about download speeds. Rook you said fiber travels at the speed of light (unlike electric lines). Does that mean that my ping speeds will increase if I switch from my current electric lines (via Comcast/TimeWarner), to the fiber optic lines of U-Verse's FTTN?

[sixtymhz]

After tuning my client:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/219587675.png

then to GA:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/219590372.png

[Rooks4]

It's a little bit too difficult for me to answer Chief... FTTH and FTTN can mean a handful of things. Let me try a pathetic diagram...(simplified)

(YOUR HOUSE) -----> (NODE) ---> (ISP) -------> (INTERWEBS!!!)

The question is does the FTTH give you Fiber from your house, to the internet? Or is it just Your House to the ISP?

Obviously Node is the same thing.. If all they are doing is connecting fiber from the nearest datacenter to your node, then you aren't going to see much of an improvement.

Beyond that, it may not affect your ping at ALL. Remember, changing these lines will increase your speed between you and your ISP, but once you get off their network you are at the mercy of the internet. If you are having issues with routing down the pipe, nothing short of a miracle and/or a new routing table will save you. Changing the ISP will possibly give you a new routing table, but it's not garunteed to fix your issues. You need to find the problem first, then make an intelligent decision on what is your best path to improvement :)

[The Chief]

I see. Well, in all honesty this change will cost me $80 less a month for roughly exactly (or more) than what I'm getting now from TimeWarner (according to the service guy). He also told me that I get a trial period free and if I don't like it everything can be reversed.

I'll try it out and see what it does.

I totally over looked that fact though. Just because fiber is running from the node to the ISP, doesn't mean it runs from the ISP to wherever I need it to go. It basically just means I get information from my ISP faster than before. The speeds from my house to the node probably won't change much at all (difference being broadband cable to DSL).

I'd like to think the speed changes will be better with U-Verse over TimeWarner since AT&T is actually using fiber and TimeWarner isn't.

[The Chief]

lol Look what I found: http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27715&sid=19063f393d0621136fce39edd7796ced

I was seaching for info on what ping speeds 360 games have when I found this.

I'm assuming this is for LAN pinging though. I hope this doesn't mean the 360 WANTS you to have high pings. I also hope it doesn't mean the 360 won't allow you to do better than 30ms.