Are high school diplomas useful anymore?

[afrikanpygmy]

I was wondering if anyone here has thought of this question.

The reason I ask is because I have noticed that it seems for many people, once they graduate from high school, they end up staying at the same job they did during high school for the next few years. In addition, those who get jobs after graduating often seem to get jobs along side high schoolers, i.e. those without diplomae.

Personally, I question the worth of a high school diploma in light of this evidence, and I was wondering if anyone else felt the same way or differently.

[VruS]

hell, even a bachelors isn't that useful anymore.

[Oroman]

They are only useful so you can go to college. Those who get the same jobs as those without college degrees are looking for a better job. Just because you get a college degree doesn't mean you instantly get the job of your dreams.

[ElderGOD]

hell, even a bachelors isn't that useful anymore.

You ain't stealing my job flipping burgers at McDonalds, not with this PhD in Physics.

[afrikanpygmy]

Well, why do you think that a High School Diploma isn't useful anymore? Is it because of the relative ubiquity of diploma holders? (In my area, something like 91% of the 25 and older populaton has a diploma)

Also, how many people here on SRK have college degrees? I don't, but I hope to have one by the end of the year.

Oh and ElderGOD (aren't you Jewish? Shouldn't it be ElderG-D?), your quote is going in my signature.

[Plutoburn]

Useful in a sense that they'd pick person with that diploma over someone without for scanning groceries.

[clue2025]

Sadly this is true. Bachelor's degrees don't get you much anymore. You need to get the doctorate or master's unless you go into a high demand field such as teaching, engineering, pharmacy, or pre-med. The only problem with this is, teaching is easy to get through. Engineering, pharmacy, and pre-med however are very hard and VERY competitive. I am experiencing this now and its a bitch to get through 2 different sciences at one time (physics and chemistry) with math to add to that.

With a bachelors, you can get a job as a TA or TF while working on your masters or doctorate. Unless you do like I said before with the professions. Not saying those are the ONLY ones because they aren't, but because of the high demand for "high-level" employees and the pursuit of excellence along with so many people having bachelor's in something its hard to distinguish yourself from the guy who graduated in the seat next to you.

[VruS]

You ain't stealing my job flipping burgers at McDonalds, not with this PhD in Physics.

phd is different from bachelors .... :amazed:

[f_man]

what do you want to do 10 years from now?

having no diploma, a high school diploma, a bachelors degree will all determine your likely lifestyle.

shit i know someone whos in their 30s, has no diploma, lives with their parents and gets blazed on his weekends. for some thats a pretty cool life, for others not so much.

[R.P.D rookie]

These days, you gotta have a basic college degree to flip burgers, it seems like. There was a time when a highschool education was simply enough to land a well paying job to support a family and a quality lifestyle. Then, came college the higher education and then came grad school after that. It seems to keep ratcheting up as the years go on. I won't be surprised if there's a required "higher learning" after grad school before long.

Education is one of those things that irks me in how it's managed. The education in the US needs a serious revamping. As I've said in the past, looking back on it now, I'd would've much rather learned about how to do my taxes, invest wisely, manage budgets, how to buy property, etc; over learning such important things as when the Magna Carta was signed. Which in the end WILL HELP ME NONE WHAT-SO-EVER in my daily life, the present where I have to you know......survive.


And also, correct me if I'm wrong, but this whole college deal seems like something the institutions of higher learning and the government went in on together, to make it mandatory for people in search of a better living, so that they could bleed more money out of the general public for years. God knows I'll be owned by college til I'm in my late 30's at least. My sister graduated back in the early 90's from college and she's still playing back debt.:sad:

[ElderGOD]

Well, why do you think that a High School Diploma isn't useful anymore? Is it because of the relative ubiquity of diploma holders? (In my area, something like 91% of the 25 and older populaton has a diploma)

Also, how many people here on SRK have college degrees? I don't, but I hope to have one by the end of the year.

All the real jobs get outsourced to other countries.

Now there are millions of people in the US. They all need jobs, but all the good jobs got outsourced. You are only left with shit no one wants like fast food places, garbage man, janitor, bus/truck driver, security guard, etc.

Since there are almost no good jobs left, instead of a few people applying for one job, you now have hundreds of thousands of people applying for the same job that may not be even that great, and all these people have BS at least and a lot an MS.

Everyone has a BS, and most have a MS, so now getting a PhD is what really separates a lot of people when you try to get the jobs that pay real well.


There is a backdoor though. Entertainment and sports can pay much higher than a genius solving the world's problems. Also, doctors and lawyers aren't getting outsourced, yet (I say yet because for example operations can now be performed by robotic arms over hundreds of miles away).

This is also why so many people are trying to get into drug selling or other ways to illegaly make money, because it's very difficult and only getting more difficult to make a living in this country legit.

I have a job, but it's nothing compared to making $200 in 10 minutes playing handball, or around $5000 playing cards. Hell, this kid made me an offer $500 for 10 chances at a full court shot in basketball without jump two hand. You got to be careful though playing cards and dice, some games rely heavily on luck and you want to avoid those unless you are real lucky.


Well, why do you think that a High School Diploma isn't useful anymore? Is it because of the relative ubiquity of diploma holders? (In my area, something like 91% of the 25 and older populaton has a diploma)

Also, how many people here on SRK have college degrees? I don't, but I hope to have one by the end of the year.

Oh and ElderGOD (aren't you Jewish? Shouldn't it be ElderG-D?), your quote is going in my signature.

Who ever said I was Jewish?

If you quote everything I say then you will end up with everything and nothing at the same time.

Kind of like GOD eh?

[afrikanpygmy]

what do you want to do 10 years from now?

having no diploma, a high school diploma, a bachelors degree will all determine your likely lifestyle.

shit i know someone whos in their 30s, has no diploma, lives with their parents and gets blazed on his weekends. for some thats a pretty cool life, for others not so much.

Me? I'm still trying to narrow out my possibilities, but I am looking at becoming a Materials Engineer (assuming I enter said graduate program upon gaining my BS in Physics with an Engineering Emphasis).

As I asked before, do you think that the devaluation of High School Diplomae (I took three years of Latin, this is how I do my plurals) and also Bachelor's Degrees has something to do with the prevalence of said attainments?

[clue2025]

All the real jobs get outsourced to other countries.

Now there are millions of people in the US. They all need jobs, but all the good jobs got outsourced. You are only left with shit no one wants like fast food places, garbage man, janitor, bus/truck driver, security guard, etc.

Since there are almost no good jobs left, instead of a few people applying for one job, you now have hundreds of thousands of people applying for the same job that may not be even that great, and all these people have BS at least and a lot an MS.

Everyone has a BS, and most have a MS, so now getting a PhD is what really separates a lot of people when you try to get the jobs that pay real well.


There is a backdoor though. Entertainment and sports can pay much higher than a genius solving the world's problems. Also, doctors and lawyers aren't getting outsourced, yet (I say yet because for example operations can now be performed by robotic arms over hundreds of miles away).

This is also why so many people are trying to get into drug selling or other ways to illegaly make money, because it's very difficult and only getting more difficult to make a living in this country legit.

I have a job, but it's nothing compared to making $200 in 10 minutes playing handball, or around $5000 playing cards. Hell, this kid made me an offer $500 for 10 chances at a full court shot in basketball without jump two hand. You got to be careful though playing cards and dice, some games rely heavily on luck and you want to avoid those unless you are real lucky.




Who ever said I was Jewish?

If you quote everything I say then you will end up with everything and nothing at the same time.

Kind of like GOD eh?

You could always hustle pool. But thats just as risky. And theres just as many sharks. Shit my girlfriend made $200 off of other students last saturday night playin pool.

Me? I'm still trying to narrow out my possibilities, but I am looking at becoming a Materials Engineer (assuming I enter said graduate program upon gaining my BS in Physics with an Engineering Emphasis).

As I asked before, do you think that the devaluation of High School Diplomae (I took three years of Latin, this is how I do my plurals) and also Bachelor's Degrees has something to do with the prevalence of said attainments?

Well the program I'm going through, I finish up here in about 3 years and get a bachelor's in physics. Then, with that being done, I can do 1 of 2 things: I can stay an extra year and get a bachelor's in math THEN go to the next school for the engineering degree, or I can just go straight for the engineering degree in 2 years. The downside is I take 17-18 credits per semester and I'm taking summer classes also. So I have NO time for anything.

[MrQuotes]

they make nice wall ornaments

[Oroman]

Sadly this is true. Bachelor's degrees don't get you much anymore. You need to get the doctorate or master's unless you go into a high demand field such as teaching, engineering, pharmacy, or pre-med. The only problem with this is, teaching is easy to get through. Engineering, pharmacy, and pre-med however are very hard and VERY competitive. I am experiencing this now and its a bitch to get through 2 different sciences at one time (physics and chemistry) with math to add to that.

With a bachelors, you can get a job as a TA or TF while working on your masters or doctorate. Unless you do like I said before with the professions. Not saying those are the ONLY ones because they aren't, but because of the high demand for "high-level" employees and the pursuit of excellence along with so many people having bachelor's in something its hard to distinguish yourself from the guy who graduated in the seat next to you.

Damn it I was hoping a Bachelors degree would be decent for me. Would a Bachelors degree cut it to become a Computer Programmer? If not then I don't even know if my parents are able to afford that much college.

[Kusanagi02]

having a military background helps a ton. I'm currently pursuing a bachelors degree in engineering and yet i'm interning with Lockheed Martin.

[thurst]

As I've said in the past, looking back on it now, I'd would've much rather learned about how to do my taxes, invest wisely, manage budgets, how to buy property, etc

none of those things are particularly hard concepts to grasp and would most likely be learned from your parents...outside of doing your own taxes, in which case you need to just take the L and hit up H&R block.

snip

how old are you again?

[RockBogart]

My major is Homeland Security. I start learning Arabic in the summer and will probably pick up one more language. Since we have the FBI, CIA, and other federal agencies so close to my school, most people in major get placed at a job before graduation. It also helps if you have a teacher who is willing to pass out your resume to every connection they have.

[clue2025]

Damn it I was hoping a Bachelors degree would be decent for me. Would a Bachelors degree cut it to become a Computer Programmer? If not then I don't even know if my parents are able to afford that much college.

If its CS then I think you might have a good shot but I'd get the job and try to continue in the field for a higher degree. Computer Science is a VERY high demand field and is a big section here at my school. You shouldn't have a problem getting a job with just the bachelors in CS.

having a military background helps a ton. I'm currently pursuing a bachelors degree in engineering and yet i'm interning with Lockheed Martin.

I've heard this from many people. I thought about going this route but I'm too hard headed and stubborn to listen to drill sargents. Although the pay and the creds would be better in the long run.

Really, I think anything in the sciences would be rewarding unless of course you do like teaching. Business is too cut-throat and simple for me. And boring. Computer science is fun, I enjoyed my programming class, but its not what I want to do. Anything in liberal arts, well, you an expect to get a job in teaching or being a professor.

The problem is if you just major in one kind of science and no direction in that science, you end up being a research scientist or professor. If thats your thing, however, then more power to you: You get your office and you get to do your research. You get published, etc etc. But taking a direction, such as engineering out of physics or pharmacy out of chemistry or pre-med out of bio, is where the demand is at, and is also where the money is. I'm not forgetting computer science, but thats a place all its own.

[Netology]

Masters or PhD....anything else is fucken irrelevant

[ElderGOD]

You could always hustle pool. But thats just as risky. And theres just as many sharks. Shit my girlfriend made $200 off of other students last saturday night playin pool.


I play pool and table tennis for money as well.

The problem with pool is that everyone wants to play for money, but they only put down $10 dollars a ball when I want to play $100 a ball.

Another problem with pool is that anyone can be good. I play cards and I can read people and bluff, but still, it's not easy to tell how good your opponent is. Also, the better the opponent, the better they are at hiding their true game.

This is why I like playing handball for money. Some people, I can immediately tell that they are not in shape and that I will completely destroy them or their hand/wrist will break in the middle of the game. Funny thing is, you got little kids challenging you for money. Shit is ridiculous. I had like a 12 year old try to challenge me for money and some high school kid. Shit is funny. I got my morals though, I don't play scrubs, and they don't bet high anyways. Plus that would only decrease my skill level and my reputation.

[Oroman]

If its CS then I think you might have a good shot but I'd get the job and try to continue in the field for a higher degree. Computer Science is a VERY high demand field and is a big section here at my school. You shouldn't have a problem getting a job with just the bachelors in CS.

Thanks for the info. I selected CS as my major and I will probably get a higher degree. It's a shame that you practically have to drown in debt just to get a decent job.

[Wellman]

Damn it I was hoping a Bachelors degree would be decent for me. Would a Bachelors degree cut it to become a Computer Programmer? If not then I don't even know if my parents are able to afford that much college.

A bachelors and professional experience will probably do you well. Most employers mainly want someone with as much experience for the cheapest rate possible, as long as you can prove to do the work and they need you, there is a chance. Certifications are good as well to get at least an entry level job.

[Humbag]

Shit my bro only has his BS and he landed a job making 55k right outta school.

Its not just about what shit you got its if you are good at is or not.

There is a LOT of other things you can do to get you a job people are just for the most part, lazy.

[clue2025]

A bachelors and professional experience will probably do you well. Most employers mainly want someone with as much experience for the cheapest rate possible, as long as you can prove to do the work and they need you, there is a chance. Certifications are good as well to get at least an entry level job.

True. Finding internships over summer or at least at some point in your major will help with credentials. With the cred and experience, you get higher priority over the next guy. Plus if you really do know what you're doing and they see that, they might keep you around and pay you more.

[ChrisLionheart]

simple answer is no

[clue2025]

I play pool and table tennis for money as well.

The problem with pool is that everyone wants to play for money, but they only put down $10 dollars a ball when I want to play $100 a ball.

Another problem with pool is that anyone can be good. I play cards and I can read people and bluff, but still, it's not easy to tell how good your opponent is. Also, the better the opponent, the better they are at hiding their true game.

This is why I like playing handball for money. Some people, I can immediately tell that they are not in shape and that I will completely destroy them or their hand/wrist will break in the middle of the game. Funny thing is, you got little kids challenging you for money. Shit is ridiculous. I had like a 12 year old try to challenge me for money and some high school kid. Shit is funny. I got my morals though, I don't play scrubs, and they don't bet high anyways. Plus that would only decrease my skill level and my reputation.

The biggest problem is when you play big, people see you whether they were there or not. Word gets around fast in the "underground." Jack White (never heard of the guy until he came here, like a generic Minnesota Fats) showed up and my girlfriend took my "Sneaky-pete" cue and he saw it and played her immediately because he thought she would be a challenge.

The point is if you get known, no one will play for money. No one wants to lose it.

[ElderGOD]

The biggest problem is when you play big, people see you whether they were there or not. Word gets around fast in the "underground." Jack White (never heard of the guy until he came here, like a generic Minnesota Fats) showed up and my girlfriend took my "Sneaky-pete" cue and he saw it and played her immediately because he thought she would be a challenge.

The point is if you get known, no one will play for money. No one wants to lose it.

That's why you never give out your real name.


Whoever asked my age, I'm 14.

[Javid]

Well, here in my province there are a lot of jobs. It's just you gotta know what you want out of life and somehow try to integrate that with what is going to be in demand down the road.

Look here:


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080304.CAMPBELL04/TPStory/TPComment/

I'm currently going to college for Electrical Engineering. This summer I will have a co-op job fixing IC's and stuff. It's not much but it's a start.

This has been discussed many times before here on SRK, and I don't remeber who said this on here, but when you see all these wankers going to school for liberal arts/general arts and end up with nothing, well it's no wonder.

Also, try not to get jobs where they are either temporary always or by contract. This one girl I know went to school for set/stage design. Now I don't know how many of you guys go to a theater to watch a live play, but around here those kinda jobs are hard to find. Needless to say, she's looking to come back and work at the dollar store. Two years of going to school and this is what you get...back to where you started.

[hoax]

The higher you go in school whatever job you end up taking will most likely pay you more, even if slightly, regardless of what the degree is in. A lot of the time most people don't end up doing something that is associated with their degree.

In the same sense you can not have a high school diploma and start your own business or invest and do better than some people with degrees.

Kids with fucking downs get diplomas, IMO it's pathetic if you don't have one.

[thurst]

exactly saying a degree is worthless is silly, look at any breakdown of wages that is stratified by education level and tell me that shit doesn't matter.

[Debaser]

over learning such important things as when the Magna Carta was signed.

1215. HA!

[goodm0urning]

Also, how many people here on SRK have college degrees? I don't, but I hope to have one by the end of the year.Have an AA, working on a BA.

True. Finding internships over summer or at least at some point in your major will help with credentials. With the cred and experience, you get higher priority over the next guy. Plus if you really do know what you're doing and they see that, they might keep you around and pay you more.This is the real shit. The degree itself won't really get you in the door, but if you play your cards right, the contacts you make along the way will help a lot. Having the degree probably just means you'd get chosen over a candidate with a similar skill set who doesn't have one.

Since I'm majoring in professional writing, there is a very good chance that the degree itself is going to mean dick squat, but I already know some people in the department who can help me out once I'm in the shark-infested waters.

[FatalFuryD]

High school diploma is required to get a Government work. USPS, Fire Dept volunteer(into a full time, through recognition), and library are some examples of Government works. I'm not sure if DMV or health inspectors require a college degree, but my guts say no. By the way I believe U.S. government was the second highest employer last year. I bent on one of other job threads about work tiering, so I'll spare yall. It's definitely not a bad start, but somewhat of knowledge besides high school is required.

There's military, as well. It really has been a great work for me so far(from E-1 to E-4 in less that two years baby!!), but of course, that's going to be a different experience for everyone.

[pherai]

A bachelors isn't worth anything only if you get a bachelors in something stupid like liberal arts, political science, or gender studies.

[thurst]

i thought it was 1066 :confused:

...i looked it up and that was when william invaded from normandy, fuck!

[Dhalsimowns]

Well, why do you think that a High School Diploma isn't useful anymore? Is it because of the relative ubiquity of diploma holders? (In my area, something like 91% of the 25 and older populaton has a diploma)

Also, how many people here on SRK have college degrees? I don't, but I hope to have one by the end of the year.

Oh and ElderGOD (aren't you Jewish? Shouldn't it be ElderG-D?), your quote is going in my signature.

I have a finance degree. My gpa was kind of low so I wont be on Wall street anytime soon, but it at least qualifies me for a million more jobs than a high school degree would.

College degrees are so much more accessible than they were 15-20 yrs ago. That means more people have them, theres more competition, and as economics teaches us. the more there is of somthing the less it's worth. Add to that the reality of the existent and growing number of useless B.S. (bullshit) degrees, and ya...

Really, this makes highschool degrees more of a utility. It isnt that a highschool degree ISNT useful, it's just thats its mandatory. Not in a way that provides a usefull advantage either, more of a " you can enter the race because you have legs" kind of way.

[clue2025]

A bachelors isn't worth anything only if you get a bachelors in something stupid like liberal arts, political science, or gender studies.

My mom is a journeyman electrician. She works with a guy who has a degree in political science. She asked why was he working construction and he told her straight up "There aren't jobs in political science."

[Preppy]

You either need a high school degree or a good goddamned reason why you don't have one.

Much like not finishing college: why did you drop out? Leaving for a challenge is awesome. Leaving because it required work is pretty much a great sign that you're a life scrub.

I can't even imagine not finishing high school. If that's too much for you: what is your planned life trajectory?

[clue2025]

When people drop out, especially during SENIOR YEAR, i wonder what the hell? Where were their heads at? You had less than 1 year time wise to be a little better in life.

[sait0u]

My mom is a journeyman electrician. She works with a guy who has a degree in political science. She asked why was he working construction and he told her straight up "There aren't jobs in political science."

sometimes i wonder about certain degrees that colleges give out. :confused:

[Sev]

While I don't think the degree itself matters that much, it seems to be a necessary evil. I was able to get my high school diploma at 16, just because of one very easy test that anybody could pass. Also, the name of the degree seems to mean more than the actual content sometimes. My school somehow managed to call their 3d graphics and sound recording programs "applied science" which means we get to sound all fancy when we're studying what would normally be considered an arts program.

On a side note though, liberal arts, philosophy, and gender studies = INSTANT IN at any coffee shop or café you want to work at. To quote bash: "NOW, DID YOU CHOOSE THE PANCAKES WITH BACON, OR WAS IT FATE?!?!"

[fP_tHuG]

its good to have a degree/diploma, but it's even better if you have a degree/diploma and tight networking. Ever heard of the saying "It's not what you know, its who you know". 80% of my jobs were introduced to me from someone i knew. If your networking skills sucks, or you a have a small network, better start son, it will help you in your career later on.

[debs]

Masters or PhD....anything else is fucken irrelevant

can't cosign posts, so...

how about that sf4? hope it turns out well.

[Kane Blueriver]

At least here, unless you are lucky and have connections, or an established family business, you're getting nowhere beyond a McJob without graduating from HS. However, university diplomas are what matter most here, even if you're only an undergraduate, because university studies are highly appreciated here, and there's a huge leap in wages depending on if you finish or not an uni career. Problem is that the most prestigious universities here have really expensive fees, so you have to be too damn rich to pay it, or too damn poor to get scholarships. If you are a middle class, you might as well don't even try it. Also, universities here try to suck the most money possible from you, with the most required careers lasting between 5-7 years just to get the undergraduate degree.

[Kusanagi02]

At least here, unless you are lucky and have connections, or an established family business, you're getting nowhere beyond a McJob without graduating from HS. However, university diplomas are what matter most here, even if you're only an undergraduate, because university studies are highly appreciated here, and there's a huge leap in wages depending on if you finish or not an uni career. Problem is that the most prestigious universities here have really expensive fees, so you have to be too damn rich to pay it, or too damn poor to get scholarships. If you are a middle class, you might as well don't even try it. Also, universities here try to suck the most money possible from you, with the most required careers lasting between 5-7 years just to get the undergraduate degree.

Thats 3/4 of the reason why i joined the military. I applied for financial aide during the latter part of senior year in high school. I'm from a middle class family and i was denied simply cause my parents make too much money. In my mind i'm like WTF:mad:

Montgomery GI bill FTW:lovin:

[Satomiblood]

Well, a high school diploma (unless you've taken advanced courses for college or some sort of vocational training) is pretty general and doesn't place emphasis on a particular set of skills that a job may require.

But by no means does a college education guarantee success either. It all depends what kind of field you choose to get involved in. The concensus has been that arts and humanities are useless. And if you're, say an english major, make sure it pertains to education or journalism (in which case english would be a minor).


Some very good fields to consider:
Teaching
Nursing
HVAC (or any type of trade with a high demand)
Graphic designThats 3/4 of the reason why i joined the military. I applied for financial aide during the latter part of senior year in high school. I'm from a middle class family and i was denied simply cause my parents make too much money. In my mind i'm like WTF:mad:

Montgomery GI bill FTW:lovin:

You applied for a grant right?

What's funny about denying people that kind of financial aid is their assumption that all the money your parents make will be allocated to your education, as if they have no other living expenses to worry about.

[nomrah]

To answer the OP's question, no a high school degree does not cut it anymore. A bachelor's degree is the new high school degree.

But to address some of the other topics in this thread, everyone has to remember that going to college does not equal getting a job. And furthermore, being good at school does not mean your good at landing jobs.

I have a BS in Computer Science and believe me there were plenty of more talented people going after the same jobs I was, but I got picked over them because I had a better set of soft skills. To put it bluntly I have a personality and am socialable, which often times is hard to find amongst a group of Computer Science students.

[J-ride]

You really can't get a great job out of high school anymore, college really isn't that useful UNLESS you are going to college for a particular high demand job. SO many people go to college and get some art degree and graduate making just slightly more than someone with a high school diploma could make.

[Ex0dUs27]

college diplomas are the new high school diplomas

[FallingEdge]

Damn it I was hoping a Bachelors degree would be decent for me. Would a Bachelors degree cut it to become a Computer Programmer? If not then I don't even know if my parents are able to afford that much college.

I'm graduating with a Bachelors in Computer Science and have gotten job offers for 55-60k fresh out of college. A few of my buddies have started around 58k working for companies like Lockheed and Agilent.

[AzN_Skater]

If you're worried that your degree won't mean anything, just go into a profession with a self governed body and association which you can join. You'll need a degree to apply and once you are in, they'll take care of you.

PS. I'm an accountant working towards my CMA. I have business degree - accounting major.

[OrangeCat]

The sad thing is that in the Canadian school system we are suffering from something called "grade inflation" aka "bitch bitch bitch until you get the mark you want." I mean it's getting to the point where students could get a fucking MATH question wrong and bitch out the teacher into submission until the teacher says "OK...get off my fucking back here's your damn A!" I mean what the fuck IT'S A QUESTION BASED ON LOGIC. How the fuck are you going to go from being wrong with a question BASED ON FACT to suddenly being right?

What's worst is that now the college bachelor is beginning to be the actual equivalent of a high school diploma because university profs have to teach the basic skills that high school failed to teach them. Holy shit I spend thousands of dollars in tuition for what? To be taught basic writing skills which I should have gotten for free in high school? Burger flipping is going to be the 110% lifeblood industry of North America pretty damn soon.

OC

[StuartHayden]

i wasn't even out of highschool when I got hired as an electrician getting 36 an hour.

[afrikanpygmy]

I'm starting to think that maybe, if high schools offered students the chance to graduate with an emphasis in something, then maybe high school diplomae would be more valuable in this country.

But still, does one think that the prevalence of people who have graduated high school has thus rendered High School Diplomae insignificant?

Has education become more important in our society? Or have educators become more lenient in the last 30 or so years? Are people in this country getting smarter? What can explain the increase in educational attainment in this country?

[pherai]

Has education become more important in our society? Or have educators become more lenient in the last 30 or so years? Are people in this country getting smarter? What can explain the increase in educational attainment in this country?

The core of the issue is a mandate that everyone passes. This itself isn't damaging, but the way we approach this solution is. California has a high school exit exam that requires like 7th or 8th grade math knowledge to graduate. It's pathetic. We lower standards in order to get people out of the door. Our schools don't have much accountability in general.

I don't think you should have a "major" in high school, because its just public education. If you are motivated enough to get training pertinent to a job, you should be doing it on your own time. That shows employers you wanted that career. The kind of people who can't get jobs with a bachelors degree have worthless degrees, and that doesn't show any motivation to offer something to an employer.

[The_Dragon]

The fact that blue collar jobs that award decent wages are all but gone. Since the competition for white collar jobs naturally intensifies, the higher ratio of people applying with a BA cuts down on the value placed on the degree, and the high school degree before it.

[HeaT]

I'm starting to think that maybe, if high schools offered students the chance to graduate with an emphasis in something, then maybe high school diplomae would be more valuable in this country.

But still, does one think that the prevalence of people who have graduated high school has thus rendered High School Diplomae insignificant?

Has education become more important in our society? Or have educators become more lenient in the last 30 or so years? Are people in this country getting smarter? What can explain the increase in educational attainment in this country?

an education is not important in our society a degree/diploma is, there is a difference...

im outi

Roberth

[Kane Blueriver]

Thats 3/4 of the reason why i joined the military. I applied for financial aide during the latter part of senior year in high school. I'm from a middle class family and i was denied simply cause my parents make too much money. In my mind i'm like WTF:mad:

Montgomery GI bill FTW:lovin:

I wouldn't survive probably for one day in any kind of armed forces/military/police/etc. etc.; I signed up this year in a "Professional Institute" (don't know its equivalent in the USA), that teaches multiple careers that last from 2 to 3 years, but those have obviously a worse wage in the real worlds than the 5-7 years ones. However, I've lost too much time (4 years) in the 2 times I got kicked from the university, so I'll finish a 2 1/2 year career (Programmer Analyst), so I can get a real job ASAP and start gathering some money. Not very proud of that, but at least the cost is affordable (US$2000 yearly, from which half of it comes from my pocket); University costed US$7500 each year. Really hope to avoid just being a lazy bum and finish the career this time.

[HeaT]

can't cosign posts, so...

how about that sf4? hope it turns out well.

anything but a masters and phd is irrelavant??? in terms of what???

i can give you a list of people who i went to school with and were friends that landed rediculous jobs right after school with no experience...

my friend who was in the business college landed a job with a swiss bank in new york 70,000$ + 15,000$ signing bonus with NO experience...right out of school...

i know engineers who came out of school with bachelors with jobs that payed 60,000$...

like irrelavant in terms of what??? im not really sure...

and like saying anything but a PHD is irrelavant doesnt really make sense, a PHD is almost not relavant at all in landing a job in the "work force", unless you want to do research and become a professor because that is what it is primarily used for...

im outi

Roberth

[Kusanagi02]

I blame the whole "no child left behind" BS with the current state of the education system.

[Dasparov]

It depends on determination as well, people graduate with a bachelor in whatever and expect all the jobs to handed too them. They don't realize you have to push to get a job and not sit on your ass and hope for the best. Sure occasionally jobs are offered however more often then not the people with the high paying jobs have worked a lot to get where they are.

I hate when someone states that a Bachelor is useless because they graduated and expected a silver platter handed to them right as they finished.

[Superking]

You either need a high school degree or a good goddamned reason why you don't have one.

Much like not finishing college: why did you drop out? Leaving for a challenge is awesome. Leaving because it required work is pretty much a great sign that you're a life scrub.

I can't even imagine not finishing high school. If that's too much for you: what is your planned life trajectory?

That guy is actually in MvC2, really?

Oh and co-sign on what you said.

[catchafire]

It was relevant when there were industry jobs still available in the US, i.e. jobs at Ford, GM, thos kind of places. We've outsourced those kinds of jobs, so if you want anything you have to get a higher degree, i.e. masters or a really sweet bachelors degree w/ a good gpa.

[Weeks]

it's less about your education, more about your useful skills. you can make a lot of money doing electric work, putting in irrigation systems, or welding with no schooling past 8th grade. if you don't want to do something like that, then you go to college in order to gain useful skills and education relevant to the profession you choose.


don't listen to the bullshit 'education for the sake of bettering' that some teachers will tell you; chances are they have done little outside of academia and have no real idea wtf they're talking about. make getting a job your focus! network! get some marketable skills!

[Superking]

It was relevant when there were industry jobs still available in the US, i.e. jobs at Ford, GM, thos kind of places. We've outsourced those kinds of jobs, so if you want anything you have to get a higher degree, i.e. masters or a really sweet bachelors degree w/ a good gpa.

And it's still relevant, because in order to get higher degrees, you need a high school diploma in the first place.

[Kusanagi02]

don't listen to the bullshit 'education for the sake of bettering' that some teachers will tell you; chances are they have done little outside of academia and have no real idea wtf they're talking about. make getting a job your focus! network! get some marketable skills!

Gotta disagree with you. Yeah having skills is good BUT educating yourself beyond high school helps a ton and it does better yourself. Seriously having a college degree is gonna at least get you noticed over just having a diploma.

[The Epidemic]

it's less about your education, more about your useful skills. you can make a lot of money doing electric work, putting in irrigation systems, or welding with no schooling past 8th grade. if you don't want to do something like that, then you go to college in order to gain useful skills and education relevant to the profession you choose.


don't listen to the bullshit 'education for the sake of bettering' that some teachers will tell you; chances are they have done little outside of academia and have no real idea wtf they're talking about. make getting a job your focus! network! get some marketable skills!


Most of this boils down to race unfortunately..maybe if ur white this is good advice. If your black/latino however, you better get that education...
I hate to make it a race thing but, when it comes to jobs and the hiring process...race is still there.
Lets say a blk and white guy have the same stats school wise. (both have degrees, same age) but the white guy has a couple of felonys..yet the blk guy has a clean record. Who do u think is gonna get the job first? Obviously the white guy...

[OmNiExiZt]

No, no they are not. It almost seems the same way for college degrees to. When I was in highschool and working at blockbuster video. I worked with a guy that had a masters is biochemistry. I was like, dawg, what the fuck are you doing here?

He told me that he had been trying to get a real job and putting out resumes all over the place. But since he didn't have any expericence, things were just tough for him. I tried to call his bluff, so he bought in his diploma and transcripts. That cat was pretty smart to.

*ONEZ*

[Weeks]

Lets say a blk and white guy have the same stats school wise. (both have degrees, same age) but the white guy has a couple of felonys..yet the blk guy has a clean record. Who do u think is gonna get the job first? Obviously the white guy..

you're fucking joking, right? don't be an idiot.

"hmm multiple felon or harmless black guy...gee what a tough choice!'

[The Epidemic]

no im not...and i speak from experience...

[Weeks]

no im not...and i speak from experience...

maybe one time in a million that will happen. big deal. it doesn't mean that you're more likely to hire a multiple felon than a black guy. it's just a dumb statement.

[The Epidemic]

^it is what it is...

[ElderGOD]

^it is what it is...

That's bullshit. A lie.

If the boss is aware then there is more going on behind the scenes than you may be aware of. Perhaps your boss isn't running a legit business and needs someone who has experience in the area...

Hmmm... let's see... I'm a criminal... do I hire a criminal or a non-criminal?


It's not based on the color of skin.

Sorry to be the one to tell you that you aren't special.

Skin color doesn't matter unless you are racist yourself.

[The Epidemic]

^ur wrong..skin color does matter...
i may have exaggerated by saying a couple of felonys..but, at the end of the day...its still a black and white thing....
btw..im talking about real jobs..not the fast food industry im sure ur use to. :wink:

[RockBogart]

^ur wrong..skin color does matter...
i may have exaggerated by saying a couple of felonys..but, at the end of the day...its still a black and white thing....
btw..im talking about real jobs..not the fast food industry im sure ur use to. :wink:

:confused:

[Weeks]

btw..im talking about real jobs..not the fast food industry im sure ur use to. :wink:

what's your educational level? what's a 'real' job?

[The Epidemic]

what's your educational level? what's a 'real' job?

i dont see why my education lv is relevant...
just know that im about to graduate college and i have two jobs.

edit - whats your education lv?

[ElderGOD]

i dont see why my education lv is relevant...
just know that im about to graduate college and i have two jobs.

edit - whats your education lv?

Higher than yours since you still didn't get a BS from college.

I have one legit job and it pays more than both your jobs combined.

My other "income" pays more than my legit job which pays more than both your jobs combined.

edit: Don't bring skin color or race into the discussion of this post.

[The Epidemic]

Higher than yours since you still didn't get a BS from college.

I have one legit job and it pays more than both your jobs combined.

My other "income" pays more than my legit job which pays more than both your jobs combined.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Ill Have my Bachelors this may..so its all good
and im pretty sure ur money isnt even close to what i see...
ur not on my lv kid..trust me.
as much as i travel through out the year...id bet money that u dont even have a car

[ElderGOD]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Ill Have my Bachelors this may..so its all good
and im pretty sure ur money isnt even close to what i see...
ur not on my lv kid..trust me.
as much as i travel through out the year...id bet money that u dont even have a car

It would be funny if your paycheck comes from me.

It's a small world, everybody has to be somebody.

[Night]

Nope high school diplomas are not useful anymore. Everyone knows that everyone on internet, yup even people here on SRK, who never graduated high school are billionaires that give Bill Gates a run for his money and they even do it without having a job too. So yup, drop outta high school now. You don't need to be there to be rich.

[The Epidemic]

It would be funny if your paycheck comes from me.

It's a small world, everybody has to be somebody.

yea..my paycheck is coming from someone who posts on srk with a kakashi av....
seems highly unlikely:rolleyes:

[RockBogart]

This is gonna get ugly.

[Hellion]

Let's go kill people

[ElderGOD]

yea..my paycheck is coming from someone who posts on srk with a kakashi av....
seems highly unlikely:rolleyes:

I see that since I stated for you to stop being racist you turned to being biased towards an anime character.

To attack my avatar like that I must have hit a nerve.

Having some college or financial issues are you?

Anyways, I'm not baiting you.

Why would a simple 14 year old and his simple Kakashi avatar spend time paying attention to some insignificant old man ranting about people not giving him special treatment like a free job for being a special skin color?

On the other hand, why does an old man care why a kid has an anime avatar?

[The Epidemic]

I see that since I stated for you to stop being racist you turned to being biased towards an anime character.

To attack my avatar like that I must have hit a nerve.

Having some college or financial issues are you?

Anyways, I'm not baiting you.

Why would a simple 14 year old and his simple Kakashi avatar spend time paying attention to some insignificant old man ranting about people not giving him special treatment like a free job for being a special skin color?

On the other hand, why does an old man care why a kid has an anime avatar?

:rofl::rofl:
i dont give a fuck about ur av...i was just making an observation...
And no..i have no finance problems sorry kid...my money is high.
Got a nice whip and a nice apt in midtown atl..

[DS]

This is gonna get ugly.

No, this is gonna get stupid like most SRK discussion, since everyone that participates IS stupid.

[ElderGOD]

No, this is gonna get stupid like most SRK discussion, since everyone that participates IS stupid.

I haz 10 on IQ test.

It out of 10 right? I am prfect 10 for 10 right?.

I smrat I iz ar an cOlage Stoodent?!!?!

[Shazay]

You ain't stealing my job flipping burgers at McDonalds, not with this PhD in Physics.

:rofl:

Man I really hate Univ Physics I right now. I never studied so hard in my life just to have a C in the class x_x

[DS]

I haz 10 on IQ test.

It out of 10 right? I am prfect 10 for 10 right?.

I smrat I iz ar an cOlage Stoodent?!!?!

Trying a little too hard there. Might wanna knock it down a few notches. But yes, these discussions do get dumb towards the end. You're only helping me get my point across.

[v1y]

so wait... eldergod is 14 and has a university degree? what?

[goodm0urning]

This is cool. Arguing about who has the highest IQ and pay rates on a competitive video game forum is cool.

[ElderGOD]

:rofl:

Man I really hate Univ Physics I right now. I never studied so hard in my life just to have a C in the class x_x

The way you stated University Physics, I am reminded of Mastering Physics.

I had to create similar software. College students hate me...


Anyways, the greatest obstacle I see that prevents students from doing well in physics is that there is a large amount of information to teach and not all can be taught. It is assumed that the students coming in have some basic knowledge of physics and the necessary math requirements.

One more thing, "not everybody can get A."

edit:

This is cool. Arguing about who has the highest IQ and pay rates on a competitive video game forum is cool.

Next I'll take the big step and actually start playing video games.

[R.P.D rookie]

1215. HA!

Be sure to rub that in my face with your new Ferrari after you win Who wants to be a Millionaire. :smokin:

[VruS]

what are your job / credentials eldergod?

[denjin]

hell, even a bachelors isn't that useful anymore.

I read two posts. And there it is.


Honestly, it's been a LONG time since I've heard someone being amazed at graduating high school.

Conversely, the master's is not as impressive as you'd think it'd be.



sometimes i wonder about certain degrees that colleges give out. :confused:

Degrees go like this: Money or fun? That's it. (...Religion anyone?)

[JubeiNinja69]

The way you stated University Physics, I am reminded of Mastering Physics.

I had to create similar software. College students hate me...


Anyways, the greatest obstacle I see that prevents students from doing well in physics is that there is a large amount of information to teach and not all can be taught. It is assumed that the students coming in have some basic knowledge of physics and the necessary math requirements.

One more thing, "not everybody can get A."

edit:



Next I'll take the big step and actually start playing video games.

i had a crazy professor that would make problems up the night before the exam. i barely scraped by with a C when i was taking 4A. so yeah you really have to earn your way through physics for an A. there were only 3 A's in the whole class. but he's a good professor who taught students how to study physics but its really up to the student to put in the effort though.
http://nebula.deanza.fhda.edu/physics/Newton/4A/4AExamSolutions.html

[Yumi Saotome]

Although having a high school diploma isn't really that amazing anymore, not having one cannot be a good thing. You will have many more options opened up with a high school diploma (college, vocational school, etc.). I can't think of many desirable professions out there that don't require a high school diploma. Even electricians and such require vocational training and apprenticeships, so it's schooling all over again.

I also disagree with bachelors being worthless. As other people have pointed out, it is certainly not useless when you're in the sciences like CS or whatnot. Even relatively useless degrees like Women's Studies can open doors to opportunities that you wouldn't have had otherwise. College (and your degree) is whatever you make of it. If you merely intend to waste all of your time partying, don't be surprised when it comes back to bite you in the ass.

[RedTide]

If you're worried that your degree won't mean anything, just go into a profession with a self governed body and association which you can join. You'll need a degree to apply and once you are in, they'll take care of you.

PS. I'm an accountant working towards my CMA. I have business degree - accounting major.

You actually like cost accounting? The only class I hate taking more than cost is audit :rofl: I'm most likely going to go the CGA route with a focus in Tax once I'm done my courses May. Maybe get a CPA eventually, but that'll be a bit later at least.

[pherai]

This is cool. Arguing about who has the highest IQ and pay rates on a competitive video game forum is cool.

MY DICK IS 15 INCHES LONG!

[Kusanagi02]

Yeah this thread did turn into pointless arguing but bottom line is a high school diploma isn't gonna further yourself unless you take the time to obtain better skills.
Yeah there are some jobs that require just a high school diploma but what happens when you get laid off then what?
Thats why i feel a college degree and some technical skills gives you a backup plan.

[sealhunta]

lol

Highschool diplomas are so free, with this rising population, u will probably need a b.a. to work at a grocery store just becuz of so much competition

Graduating for highschool shouldn't even be considered an accomplishment. Graduating from highschool only has a little bit to do with actual intelligence or worth ethic.

[akumatrunigga]

This has been discussed many times before here on SRK, and I don't remeber who said this on here, but when you see all these wankers going to school for liberal arts/general arts and end up with nothing, well it's no wonder.

Well here are the threads. This is also not the first time the OP did something similar

Are high school diplomas useful anymore?
I need help with school motivation
The Scholarship Thread
Your college experience
Do colleges recruit based on academics?
Are teachers making enough money? Salaries Inside
Preparation for finals: Share your Pro-tips!
Associates/Bachelors Degree - What are your options?
Considering Joining The Marines, I Have A Few Questions.
College Majors
What is or will be your career?
Psych. Majors
The Job Advice Thread: Tips and Tricks for the Job Seekers
How did you get into college?
Spinoff: What's your education level
Life without college?
Going into the Military
College Help
Should I go for a GED or a diploma?
"College students think they're so special"--Is our generation becoming Narcissistic?
For Graphics Design Majors And Poor College Students Alike...

some of them are questionable but hey

[AzN_Skater]

You actually like cost accounting? The only class I hate taking more than cost is audit :rofl: I'm most likely going to go the CGA route with a focus in Tax once I'm done my courses May. Maybe get a CPA eventually, but that'll be a bit later at least.

Haha yah, cost accounting was always my strongest class because I took the most interest in it. It's funny, becuase audit was my second favorite class haha. But focusing on Tax is a really good idea. Why not work towards your CA if you are going to be a public accountant? The only reason I don't go for my CA is because business accounting is much more interesting to me (hence the CMA route).

But if you get really good at Tax, you can make a killing doing personal tax returns.

I'm sure that after I get my CMA, I will be working towards my CPA so I can transfer my skills to the American job market. It's a worthy investment at any time in your career.

[Shin-Mech-Brian]

High School diplomas are only good to show that you weren't dumb enough to drop out because you go to your girlfriend pregnant. When I got into high school, I hung out with a group of friends that was about 17-20 strong. When I graduated, I was the only person who didn't drop out because of an impregnanted girlfriend.

[HeaT]

i make more money than all the members on this site combined...that shit is the truth cause i said so...im also 10 and have a phd in 5 fields...not only that but my part time job at burger king bought me a nice whip with an appartment next to trumps in new york...

im outi

Roberth

[clue2025]

Here's the thing now. High schools are raising standards, or states are lowering theirs, so that everyone can eventually graduate high school with both a diploma AND an associates degree. I don't agree with this. It devalues the diploma even more in a country thats going under very quickly.

To quote Grammar Club's Shael Riley on Post-graduate Shuffle:
"The 4 year degree is the biggest lie in America"

[BunnyHead]

Hell yes!!

If I didnt have my HS Diploma I wouldnt be making as much munnies as I do at my age