Ken's Full Ultra Video

[Genetix1234]

Sorry if it's a repost, but I saw this today on youtube. Finally got to see this beauty in full. Enjoy.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PQO0ZN6Uu0Q

[SlothHands]

Ultras are so retarded.

[NewGen]

that took like 45% of gief's life. ono wasn't kidding when he said that it would make matches interesting.

[Genetix1234]

more like 60-70%

it seems the ultras get stronger as the revenge bar elevates above 50%

[super yang]

yeah that was definitely shinshoryu-damage there

[SweetJohnnyV]

Dayumn! That makes Balrog's super in ST look weak :looney:

[Silks]

holy shit damage. That better be fucking hard to input (which you know it won't be)

[super yang]

all the ultras should have the somersaultstrike input +:3p:/:3k::devil:

[Genetix1234]

or geese's raging storm +3P+3K

lol

[Rhythm1c]

damn, That took like 60 percent of his life.
Nice, Looks like they are supers that do just as much damage in sf4 as supers did in super turbo.

[clue2025]

damn hahaha.

Look at his head at the end of the video. His neck is gone.

[*Onslaught*]

Holy shit at the pile driver damage animation, fucking sick, lol. Damage doesn't surprise me given the requirements for using it.

[oukamikenji]

It looks like the gameplay skill is at least a little better than what we've seen in gameplay vids so far, haha.

[Spinning Beat]

Only way it could be worse if Ken can combo his ultra off of low forward :mad:

[Rhythm1c]

It looks like the gameplay skill is at least a little better than what we've seen in gameplay vids so far, haha.


Yea, People are starting to get use to playing it probably.
There have been a few vids where it seemed like the skill level was better than what we first got at the very beginning.

what I wanna know is, How much damage must you take before you fill your bar up enough to use them. Hopefully you gotta get knocked around quite a bit. Ken was near dead before he used his. If you have to be around that much health that makes ultras pretty much super desperation moves from early king of fighters(where you had to wait till near death to use them)

[Spinning Beat]

I thought in KOF you had to wait till near death for SDM's however this changed in 97 and they bought it back in 99 then ditched it forever.

[fallot]

I'm a little more concerned that Ken survived the EX SPD. The Ultra damage was retarded too, I don't want to play a game where you gain such a massive benefit for taking damage. Hope that's changed eventually.

I didn't like it KOF, I don't like it here.

[Rhythm1c]

I thought in KOF you had to wait till near death for SDM's however this changed in 97 and they bought it back in 99 then ditched it forever.


I didn't know they bought it back in 99. But yea that was how you used them. Waiting for your life to flash red and almost dead. In the video ken used it when he didn't have much health at all.

If the only way to get revenge meter is to take damage. How much damage do you need to take before you fill your revenge meter is what I wanna know,
If you say, Only need to get to the half way mark then that is sorta bs.
also, The downside to using it and not killing them with it would mean they would have taken enough damage for them to use their ultra against you :O

lol
Now what is really going to suck is if you can cancel into those ultras.....
If it is true that ken has his same chains and normals from 3s and you can cancel into ultras then he is going to be retarded beastly.

[goodm0urning]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/goodm0urning/kensf4.jpg

Looks like they've been working on Ken's face. He doesn't look so unpolished. His gi coming out of his shoulder should probably get fixed though.

[Tone!]

c.mk xx ultra

DO IT CAPCOM.

On a serious note, the fact that it did so much damage on 'Gief... Doesn't he usually have more stamina than the rest of the cast? I figure the ultra would do far more (if this is 65%, 75-80%) if done on another character.

[Septimus Prime]

WTF @ EX SPD (and EX command grabs in general).

[Spinning Beat]

lol
Now what is really going to suck is if you can cancel into those ultras.....
If it is true that ken has his same chains and normals from 3s and you can cancel into ultras then he is going to be retarded beastly.

Well Maybe Ono will have some sense and do damage scaling like in 3s when you cancel stuff.

[super yang]

WTF @ EX SPD (and EX command grabs in general).

that bothers me too.WHat will we do about drumming/mashing to link spd's,accidental ex grab and wasted meter everytime?!?

[Rhythm1c]

c.mk xx ultra

DO IT CAPCOM.

On a serious note, the fact that it did so much damage on 'Gief... Doesn't he usually have more stamina than the rest of the cast? I figure the ultra would do far more (if this is 65%, 75-80%) if done on another character.




.........
epic lulz confirmed.

[Humbag]

Only way it could be worse if Ken can verify his ultra off of low forward :mad:

Fixed

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

holy shit damage. That better be fucking hard to input (which you know it won't be)

Umm... Making it "hard to input" doesn't solve anything. All it does is give the people who have the time to practice a bigger advantage and then it totally destroys the whole purpose of trying to attract casual gamers.

[COUM]

^^ Depends exactly how hard you make the input... making it difficult to abuse through actual properties of the move is certainly a better way to balance it though.

All I can say is, Ultras better be hella fucking punishable, because moves that do that much damage + revenge bar resetting every round means there's basically no reason to ever not do one when you're losing and just hope for a lucky hit.

[Helter Skelter]

The game doesn't look bad at all.
EX Spinning Pile Driver is fucking dumb. I like that Ken's neck broke after that Final Atomic Buster.

[Genetix1234]

in a past video, when ken's ultra whiffs or gets blocked, it turns into a flaming shinryuken, which...is highly punishable

[hubcapsignstop]

instant kills
congratulations

[wakigatame]

God, that Ultra is crazy. The whole little kicking spell he goes into reminds me of one of his Super Combos from 3S (He might have had it in the Alpha games, not totally sure).

[Superking]

God, that Ultra is crazy. The whole little kicking spell he goes into reminds me of one of his Super Combos from 3S (He might have had it in the Alpha games, not totally sure).

It's just Shippu Jinrai Kyaku (SA3) into Shinryuken (SA2).

[Genetix1234]

a flaming SA2

[Stanman]

I don't like the damage. It also seems like gaining access to the ultra is way too easy. It seems like you can start using it once you are down to half life. Wasn't it supposed to require a full super bar too? They look cool and I don't mind the animations, but the gameplay aspect just seems ridiculous.

What is everyone's deal with ex SPD? Weak damage it seemed, but that is all.

[Silks]

Umm... Making it "hard to input" doesn't solve anything. All it does is give the people who have the time to practice a bigger advantage and then it totally destroys the whole purpose of trying to attract casual gamers.

My point is, I don't want to see the game have a fucking win button. Unless that ultra on block makes the character's stamina become real shitty, and a counter to it will do like 2 times damage, to make sure that the ultra is all or nothing

[KrsJin]

I wouldn't sweat the damage levels too much just yet. Good to give feedback on em but that shit is probably tweaked constantly.

The ultra's visuals though, looked stylish as heaven. Definitely dig that one.

Oh and, Ultra's aren't unblockable. But do we know whether they can be comboed in or not? Like people joked with the c.forward and c.shortshort.

[Akutabi Gamma]

Thanks for the vid, I've been wanting to show this to those who were wondering if his Ult. is the Kuzuryu Reppa.
EDIT: Oh wait this ISN'T the Shinryuken; more like an alternation of his Kuzuryu Reppa instead lol!

[The Furious One]

very nasty, will be cool to bait your opponent into it.

[Lonewolf_Fenrir]

Great gameplay vid ^^

[Bass X0]

oh wow. it was like watching SFEX Zangeif at the very end of the video. Especially at 1:03...

[Tigerboi]

Have any of you guys stopped to think that maybe how much an ultra does depends on how many consecutive hits you've taken and how full your revenge meter is?

Basically, please take note that the meter was FULL when the hit landed.

[Demon Dash]

Hmm, this looks pretty stupid to me. IDK, just if you're supposed to cancel the Ultra with a dash to follow up with a combo, what's the point when the Ultra takes so much damage anyway? It deffinately needs toned down a little bit...

[Silks]

Have any of you guys stopped to think that maybe how much an ultra does depends on how many consecutive hits you've taken and how full your revenge meter is?

Basically, please take note that the meter was FULL when the hit landed.

No, none of us took that into account.

[Kunai]

I just hope that these Ultra supers are treated similar to the instant-kill moves in Guilty Gear, but just a tad easier to land. If it is easy to land, whether it's for an intermediate player or even a beginner... I'm afraid it would really cheapen the game and punish people who are actually being aggressive. Imagine if a turtle-style of player took advantage of this.

It really depends on how easy it is to build both super meter and revenge meters in this game. I wish I could see the game in person, but yeah... it could be a recipe for disaster if done incorrectly. Hopefully, they'll make full use of the ability to update/patch with network uploads directly to the cabs.

[caliagent#3]

I just hope that these Ultra supers are treated similar to the instant-kill moves in Guilty Gear, but just a tad easier to land. If it is easy to land, whether it's for an intermediate player or even a beginner... I'm afraid it would really cheapen the game and punish people who are actually being aggressive. Imagine if a turtle-style of player took advantage of this.

It really depends on how easy it is to build both super meter and revenge meters in this game. I wish I could see the game in person, but yeah... it could be a recipe for disaster if done incorrectly. Hopefully, they'll make full use of the ability to update/patch with network uploads directly to the cabs.

i thought about this and i don't think it'll be that bad. Because now, instead of 1 or 2 characters doing insane damage from supers (chun and yun), the whole cast now has the opportunity to do so. Also, the person who has the ultra shouldn't really be turtling since they're down on life. If they turtle they could end up having time run out on them.

[terracotta]

i don't like the thought of having to back away when you've put someone down to 15% life because they suddenly have an ultra.

what i do like is the thing seems to be a point-blank attack.. which isn't where Ken usually is anyway. i wonder if MP HP xx ultra would work.

[Kunai]

i thought about this and i don't think it'll be that bad. Because now, instead of 1 or 2 characters doing insane damage from supers (chun and yun), the whole cast now has the opportunity to do so. Also, the person who has the ultra shouldn't really be turtling since they're down on life. If they turtle they could end up having time run out on them.

What you say is true... I agree with it, but terracotta does bring up another good point. You can't rush that shit down as much if somebody's got an Ultra stocked.

Definitely better than only 3-4 characters benefiting from unequal damage with supers and such. It's the reason why I felt Custom Combos in the Alpha series were one of the worst things ever implemented in a Capcom fighter. That, and whiffing moves to build meter in 3S.

[Tigerboi]

No, none of us took that into account.

I can tell. :rofl:

[The Mullah]

i thought about this and i don't think it'll be that bad. Because now, instead of 1 or 2 characters doing insane damage from supers (chun and yun), the whole cast now has the opportunity to do so. Also, the person who has the ultra shouldn't really be turtling since they're down on life. If they turtle they could end up having time run out on them.

i dunno man, i don't think giving everyone a free tool to negate all the hard work done by your opponent is a good thing. I used to hate playing K groovers online because i'd work hard to beat them down only to have low jump hk xx tiger raid/ random lag super etc pulled everytime.

I'd prefer it if the ultras were basically the equivilent of going all in blind in holdem. You'rem ore than liely to lose by doing it, it isn't something you have to worry about normally but everyonce in the blue moon you might lose to it.

also ryu's ultra is a super fireball so they're not all point blank things, further, someone else said blankas electric ball super from cvs2 is his ultra iirc. We've seen ultras in practice, they're pretty awesome now, i just hope the damage gets toned down. i hope normal supers do barely more than ex moves, i hate big damage supers unless a characters normals are purposely shit to compensate.

[Tigerboi]

If ultras are blockable, highly risky and are only worth doing under certain circumstances they most likely will not be usable in high level imo.

[Remix1213]

So basically this game is ST wit SFEX graphics? I was hoping for something fresh... I guess SF4 was a risk and they went the safe way and just copy and paste ST wit tweeks to the engine.

Edit: Good shit also to the fact that we got in game cut scenes aka ultras... I try to be positive about it but damn...

[COUM]

i don't like the thought of having to back away when you've put someone down to 15% life because they suddenly have an ultra.

Yeah, seriously. I've been saying this ever since the Revenge system was first revealed, and it's really looking like this is how it's going to play out...

Also, note that you (at least in previous builds) build Revenge meter from blocking attacks too, not just getting hit, so you can definitely turtle and abuse this.

[Roshihikari]

If ultras are blockable, highly risky and are only worth doing under certain circumstances they most likely will not be usable in high level imo.

I wouldn't use the word usable, but I know what you mean. Probably people would find rare circumstances where they can be used in high level. But the thing is, if these Ultras are hardly used in high level, then that would take so much away from the game. Because Ultras are like the 'Super Specialty Moves', and imagine that is very rarely used because of what you said. It's a bit like playing SFIII:3S without any Super Arts.

[Tigerboi]

I wouldn't use the word usable, but I know what you mean. Probably people would find rare circumstances where they can be used in high level. But the thing is, if these Ultras are hardly used in high level, then that would take so much away from the game. Because Ultras are like the 'Super Specialty Moves', and imagine that is very rarely used because of what you said. It's a bit like playing SFIII:3S without any Super Arts.

I find that to be a bad comparison. some characters in 3S were better off just using meter for EX moves anyway. Another example would be magneto in MvC2 who hardly ever has to use meter. A move not being used would not really take away from the competitive side of a game.

you still have your normal supers, that at this point look alot more useful than your ultras. I imagine they will have limited use, but yeah.

Let's also take into account that some characters will possibly have really shitty useless ultras when compared to other characters.

[COUM]

It's not a character balance issue, it's a 'this is stupid no matter what' issue.

[(RedBeard)]

What is everyone's deal with ex SPD? Weak damage it seemed, but that is all.

Weak damage, but from other vids I've seen on normal SPDs the opponent is pushed pretty far away. EX SPD damage seemed about the same as the normal SPD but they stay down longer. Thing is he can still hit after an SPD, but the EX one looks like it'd give him better mixup options.

[Tigerboi]

It's not a character balance issue, it's a 'this is stupid no matter what' issue.

.....what?

[TrueSephiroth]

The damage for Ultra's is insane man...that was like around 70% life gone in one mistake??? To me honestly, I've never been of fan of "one-move" wonders that could completely turn a match in on a whim.

If they actually make it, where it's very difficult for Ultra's to even remotely land, than I can "somewhat" say it's okay. However, I don't want to have the thought that if I have 60% of my life, and my opponents almost near dead...that now I'll have to fear that I could potentially lose the round with one mistake.

I don't know man, I'm really not digging Ultra's at this point.

[onyx]

Looks good to me, lets do it. The games not done yet so i'm sure there will be tweaks and such.. Remember, it took Capcom 3 versions of SF3 to balance everything out. I just wanna get a chance to see how the game feels.

[Hatred Edge]

Well moves that end things quickly in one quick movement are becoming a trend in Japan. 1st Rage in T6 and Ultras in SF4. They think that its wonderful that one player can work their ass off to attain victory only to have it snatched away in an instant. Apparently skill is no longer the deciding factor anymore. Hell that was the plan behind Rage in T6. To give players with less skill a better chance of victory against players of greater skill.

[drobizh]

Looks good to me, lets do it. The games not done yet so i'm sure there will be tweaks and such.. Remember, it took Capcom 3 versions of SF3 to balance everything out. I just wanna get a chance to see how the game feels.

so 3s is balanced?:rofl:

[onyx]

so 3s is balanced?:rofl:

:rofl:I knew this was coming. Well there is no perfectly balanced fighter but, IMO its the most balance'd 2D fighter out there. Whats the most balance 2D fighter to you??:wonder: I know your not gonna say any Marvel or GG games, SNK??? SF2 maybee... or Alpha? Not with that custom combo stuff.

[clue2025]

I think ever since Evo2004 everyone wants to make that "miracle" seem more within grasp each time. You know damn well even casual players have seen it. They want an epic come back like that and Ono is giving it to them with the revenge system.

[(RedBeard)]

:rofl:I knew this was coming. Well there is no perfectly balanced fighter but, IMO its the most balance'd 2D fighter out there. Whats the most balance 2D fighter to you??:wonder: I know your not gonna say any Marvel or GG games, SNK??? SF2 maybee... or Alpha? Not with that custom combo stuff.

ST and pretty much every GG rendition are more balanced than 3S, for certain, though people tend to say 3S is more unbalanced than it is...those 2 games most certainly have it beat for balance.

[Nokato]

Balance is open to interpretation from a collected amount of individuals when it comes to the conclusion of an entire character roster to be balanced no matter what the matchup variable would be. Even if someone has alot of points that point toward balance in their favored game, someone is going to find fault. And as much CC's are useful in each game that they've been in people whine WAY too much about CC's on this forum. Either learn CC's, don't whine because someone else can do them and you can't due to your own lack of dexterity, or just learn to deal with it in your own way. It's been like this on SRK for YEARS, anything thats useful in game people bitch about it, and it doesn't make sense.

[caliagent#3]

i dunno man, i don't think giving everyone a free tool to negate all the hard work done by your opponent is a good thing. I used to hate playing K groovers online because i'd work hard to beat them down only to have low jump hk xx tiger raid/ random lag super etc pulled everytime.

I'd prefer it if the ultras were basically the equivilent of going all in blind in holdem. You'rem ore than liely to lose by doing it, it isn't something you have to worry about normally but everyonce in the blue moon you might lose to it.

also ryu's ultra is a super fireball so they're not all point blank things, further, someone else said blankas electric ball super from cvs2 is his ultra iirc. We've seen ultras in practice, they're pretty awesome now, i just hope the damage gets toned down. i hope normal supers do barely more than ex moves, i hate big damage supers unless a characters normals are purposely shit to compensate.

Don't get me wrong, i actually don't like the fact that they do that much damage, but from what i've seen so far, all the ultras do a large amount damage. So for those people who a crazy about the game having more than 2 usable characters, that's a good sign.

I think they should tone the damage down a bit and tighten up the restrictions on when you can use it. Like only when you have like 200-400 pts of life left (enough for 2 jabs to kill you, or 2 ticks of chip damage.)

[onyx]

ST and pretty much every GG rendition are more balanced than 3S, for certain, though people tend to say 3S is more unbalanced than it is...those 2 games most certainly have it beat for balance.

I'll certainly give ST a bloody high balance rating, i havent played it in years, but i dont remember anything seriously broken about it. But as for the GG's they're blanced to the point that everyone can be used in an equally broken way.:lol: Witch i supposed is balanced, but the gameplay itself can be very involved and crazy.. Leaving lower tier players wide open for rape'n when compared to more advanced one who know all teh little in's n outs.. In ST and 3S, you can at least hold your ground as long as you have some basic knowledge. You dont NEED to be a master @ parry's to deal with high level players, but it helps... I Guess i think 3S is the most "Fair" fighter.. And ST also.

But back to the matter at hand, the game looks pretty good so far, im sure the ultra's will be ballanced in some way.. And i say, its about time they have EX command grabs, whats wrong with that?

[(RedBeard)]

Balance is open to interpretation from a collected amount of individuals. Even if someone has alot of points that point toward balance in their favored game, someone is going to find fault. And as much CC's are useful in each game that they've been in people whine WAY too much about CC's on this forum. Either learn CC's, don't whine because someone else can do them and you can't due to your own lack of dexterity, or just learn to deal with it in your own way. It's been like this on SRK for YEARS, anything thats useful in game people bitch about it, and it doesn't make sense.

Balance isn't really open to interpretation. The only thing open to interpretation is if you're talking about the entire cast being balanced(GG, ST) or the top tiers being balanced(3S, MvC2). For both ST and GG you see most of the cast used, and in GG's case people consistently win tournaments with lower/mid tier characters. In 3S, anyone below Urien is pretty rare to see winning in high level match play. Chun and Yun are obvious dominators and you see them win most tournaments.

Anyways, getting back on topic...I agree with Mullah's comments in that I think giving people supers that do too much damage is a mistake. Slightly above EX moves would suit me just fine.

[CaliLifeStyle]

That's a lot of damage. Maybe they should make the Revenge gauge fill slower with every Ultra used.

[Nokato]

Balance isn't really open to interpretation. The only thing open to interpretation is if you're talking about the entire cast being balanced(GG, ST) or the top tiers being balanced(3S, MvC2). For both ST and GG you see most of the cast used, and in GG's case people consistently win tournaments with lower/mid tier characters. In 3S, anyone below Urien is pretty rare to see winning in high level match play. Chun and Yun are obvious dominators and you see them win most tournaments.

Anyways, getting back on topic...I agree with Mullah's comments in that I think giving people supers that do too much damage is a mistake. Slightly above EX moves would suit me just fine.


Thanks! I actually meant to include that--it really makes my statement lofty for it to not be there. I appreciate the correction.

[drobizh]

yeah ggxx tourneys is won by every char. but what was that tourney then RX lost to a 12 player yama something. shit was awesome. it's doable in 3s but that's really the only tourney i've seen won by trash tier

ontopic: obviously that ultra does way 2much damage, and the EX SPD didn't do nearly as enough damage (or is it damage scaling when you're on low health only more scaling than 3s)

[proto]

i agree with most of you guys... let's make the ultra combos wicked hard to do/use and make 'em weak sauce too! while we're at it you should even lose some of your own health for doing an ultra. that should help make it fair!!

f0ck, it should even cause a double KO that way both players win a round, i think that's the best solution... for everyone!!!1

people are acting like they won't be glad to have an ultra stocked after getting sh!t beat for most of a round. you know all it really means is if you're that high level of a player, than you best pay the f*ck attention during a fight.

[goodm0urning]

You can say "fuck" here, you know.

For one thing, the damage level of ultras is not set in stone at this point. For another, a lot of you seem almost offended that you might have to alter your strategy in the middle of a match, that having your opponent on the ropes is no longer a 99% guarantee of free victory. All I have to say to that is this: treat it like you would any other tactic in the game that can be potentially used against you.

[archetype]

why are people saying ultras are unblockable? Where was this said? Because I seen someone block all of Ryu's Ultra before. Im guessing the true "unblockable" ultra would have to buy Zangief's since its a grab. Also is it impossible to combo into an ultra? Because a lot of you been saying that it would be worse if that was possible. I don't know for certain but I'm sure you can combo into them. Why can't you do standing fierce into Ryu's ultra, r target chain into kens ultra?

It wouldnt make sense to me if capcom put ultra's in and DIDN'T let you combo into them. That would be absurd.

[Ki Shima]

doesnt really sound like anything new, look at the K groove bar, when thats activated dont you go into a defensive mind set anyway?

imo as long as its easy to defend against whats the problem *shrugs*

[fallot]

It wouldnt make sense to me if capcom put ultra's in and DIDN'T let you combo into them. That would be absurd.

This game is going to be absurd if you can hitconfirm an Ultra with the damage capabilities of the one in the video. I'm sure its going to be toned down. I wonder how much damage it would do to a less resilient character. One move desperation KO doesn't sound very appealing unless its for shits and giggles.

[Nokato]

I don't see Ultras really being used in competitive play...seriously. Yeah, they do heavy damage but the requirements to do them seem to very much fitting for the casual player looking to reset offense/defense in their favor. If Ultra's aren't combable that DEFINITELY takes away from its effectiveness among competitive players. Wake up/random Ultra's will only get you but so far. I think the only issue I really have is with you still being able to do reg supers and have the Ultra still available.

And outside of alot of recovery from Ultra's I don't see much of a negative for missing an Ultra...I don't see Ultra's breaking this game unless you can continue to hold on to an Ultra and a super combo when you meet these requirements. No one is going to want to get close to someone who has any of these especially if someone has a pretty easy combo involving each or both even...

[UltraDavid]

I'd prefer it if the ultras were basically the equivilent of going all in blind in holdem. You'rem ore than liely to lose by doing it, it isn't something you have to worry about normally but everyonce in the blue moon you might lose to it.
Yeah, I think this is a cool idea, so like, make someone who uses an ultra take 50% more damage on any attack/combo after missing it, so that it can't just be thrown out there?

That is to say, I think that's a cool idea to the extent any idea as inherently antistrategic as the revenge meter can be. Get beat up until you win! Totally makes sense.

[Celtics777]

The game doesn't look bad at all.
EX Spinning Pile Driver is fucking dumb. I like that Ken's neck broke after that Final Atomic Buster.

you really should wipe that sperm off your eyes
it's clouding your vision

how is 75-80% damage not all that bad??

[COUM]

You can say "fuck" here, you know.

For one thing, the damage level of ultras is not set in stone at this point. For another, a lot of you seem almost offended that you might have to alter your strategy in the middle of a match, that having your opponent on the ropes is no longer a 99% guarantee of free victory. All I have to say to that is this: treat it like you would any other tactic in the game that can be potentially used against you.

Why should the opponent get a free, huge opportunity to come back just because they're losing? It isn't the idea of a near-dead opponent getting more tools to work with that's stupid, it's the nature of the tool they're given. If Revenge meter could be spent to pushblock or perform some kind of evasive manoeuvre, that would actually make sense. Giving them a move that puts your opponent in just as bad - if not worse - a position than you is just ridiculous. The damage might not be set in stone, but the amount of damage they do now is indicative of the fact that the designers put them in to achieve the latter purpose, so I doubt it's going to change much. Regardless, even if they did the same as a regular super, it would still be stupid.

On the plus side, as someone who loves to stand on the other side of the screen and throw fireballs, it seems like long-range zoning is going to be really good in this game. What else isn't at risk of getting randomly Savinged/Ultra'd?

[Gutter Trash]

the damage of certain chraracters' Ultra are not close to one antoher's.
Honda's Ultra takes consiferably less damage thant Ken's.

[Nokato]

Ultra could potentially be the catalyst for a lot of turtling...I'm emphasizing could here--Ono said himself that the intent of an Ultra is to make a huge comeback so I dont think the damage will be scaled down too much. If anything He might make it that the requirements for being able to do an Ultra a bit tougher, and that once the meter is full maybe make it so your Revenge meter slowly depletes and that as it depletes, the damage potential of your Ultra is diminished also...there may be problems with my thoughts but just throwing out a possible way to "balance" Ultra's.

[FreshOJ]

If the only way to get revenge meter is to take damage. How much damage do you need to take before you fill your revenge meter is what I wanna know

Take a look at the Seth Killian demos on Gamespot. On one of them, he stated that the amount of damage it takes to fill the Revenge Meter is equal to how much damage it would take you to be stunned. In the demos, characters were usually dizzied after taking at least 5-8 hard attacks in a row (I can't remember the exact number and I can't check right now)...and that put them roughly at 50% life left.

All in all, I equate Ultra Combos to "Catch-Up" mode in racing games...only worse because you still have a full Super Meter to catch a twitching opponent with.

[goodm0urning]

Why should the opponent get a free, huge opportunity to come back just because they're losing? It isn't the idea of a near-dead opponent getting more tools to work with that's stupid, it's the nature of the tool they're given. If Revenge meter could be spent to pushblock or perform some kind of evasive manoeuvre, that would actually make sense. Giving them a move that puts your opponent in just as bad - if not worse - a position than you is just ridiculous. The damage might not be set in stone, but the amount of damage they do now is indicative of the fact that the designers put them in to achieve the latter purpose, so I doubt it's going to change much. Regardless, even if they did the same as a regular super, it would still be stupid.

On the plus side, as someone who loves to stand on the other side of the screen and throw fireballs, it seems like long-range zoning is going to be really good in this game. What else isn't at risk of getting randomly Savinged/Ultra'd?I take it you're not a K-Groove user.

[Kamui]

Why in the devil are people worried about ultras? There have always been super combos that inflict huge damage, and rarely did they ever destroy a game. They aren't custom combos, they can't be salvaged, and they don't inflict 50% chip damage. They aren't even dealing damage that's really that obscene yet. They're just K Groove super combos. Everyone needs to chill out and stop overreacting to every perceived problem.

[Gutter Trash]

after seeing the cinematic pauses at the start of most of the Ulras: They need to shorten Ryu's pause big time.
Zangief, Sagat and Ken's cinematic pauses are just right.

[(RedBeard)]

You can say "fuck" here, you know.

For one thing, the damage level of ultras is not set in stone at this point. For another, a lot of you seem almost offended that you might have to alter your strategy in the middle of a match, that having your opponent on the ropes is no longer a 99% guarantee of free victory. All I have to say to that is this: treat it like you would any other tactic in the game that can be potentially used against you.

I think the main problem with the ultras thing is that people are being REWARDED for playing stupidly. Suddenly, someone you were outguessing and punishing for careless moves or bad guesses are now rewarded with a badass match turner-threat. It makes little sense to do this. Something else that maybe gets them to back the fuck off but does no damage(ahem, burst) would be more appropriate, but doing massive damage because you're getting your shit beat in and you randomly toss that shit out and hit with it is just bad design imo.

Sure, it's punishable and if you whiff with it the match is pretty much over, but it's still bad design. It'd be like if you were beating me in Chess and suddenly I get my Queen back for free because I played like an idiot.

[(RedBeard)]

Why in the devil are people worried about ultras? There have always been super combos that inflict huge damage, and rarely did they ever destroy a game. They aren't custom combos, they can't be salvaged, and they don't inflict 50% chip damage. They aren't even dealing damage that's really that obscene yet. They're just K Groove super combos. Everyone needs to chill out and stop overreacting to every perceived problem.

Percieved problem: You build meter in different ways in those games and earn those supers. The design problem is that this ultra, if I'm not mistaken, is exclusive to the person getting their asses beaten. Super meters are totally different. While you might gain some super bar for getting hit in various games, generally the guy beating you up is gaining more.

[Kamui]

As has been mentioned 100 times over, this system already exists. It's called K Groove in CvS2. Players earn meter for taking damage. The only difference here is that the meter doesn't slowly deplete once a character becomes raged. This system is also no different from Desperation Supers in KOF, in which case you had to be at 25% of your health or less to gain access to a super. As dumb as the idea sounds on paper, it's been done before many times over, and never has it really been a problem.

Percieved problem: You build meter in different ways in those games and earn those supers. The design problem is that this ultra, if I'm not mistaken, is exclusive to the person getting their asses beaten. Super meters are totally different. While you might gain some super bar for getting hit in various games, generally the guy beating you up is gaining more.

[FreshOJ]

Hmm, this looks pretty stupid to me. IDK, just if you're supposed to cancel the Ultra with a dash to follow up with a combo, what's the point when the Ultra takes so much damage anyway? It deffinately needs toned down a little bit...

You can't dash cancel Ultra Combos. You can only dash cancel Focus Attacks and EX Moves.

[zerog]

comparing it to cvs k-groove is absurd. K-groove's meter is temporary, and it only charges when you get hit, and it doesn't carry over rounds. Not to mention one super is 10 times less impactful in a game like cvs2 where you have 3 different characters with different ratios which is essentially means you have 6 damn rounds to play.

Now you have a super that requires no execution skills, you can use it whenever the heck you want, you can build the meter by sitting back and spamming medium punch, and it carries over to the later rounds, and if landed takes 70% on freaking Zangief?? Also it's in a game where it's only 2 rounds to win. That's crazy to me.

Also you mention this system is no different then KOF? there's a reason nobody plays those games.

In no way do I think it's gonna ruin the game, but damn it's still pretty dumb to have that kinda damage from one super.

[COUM]

I take it you're not a K-Groove user.

Why in the devil are people worried about ultras? There have always been super combos that inflict huge damage, and rarely did they ever destroy a game. They aren't custom combos, they can't be salvaged, and they don't inflict 50% chip damage. They aren't even dealing damage that's really that obscene yet. They're just K Groove super combos. Everyone needs to chill out and stop overreacting to every perceived problem.

How many times are people going to make the K-Groove comparison and have it shot down before they realize its invalid? Dealing with a raged K-Groove is simply a waiting game, thanks to the fact that their meter runs out. Not so with Ultras.

[Leebee Link]

comparing it to cvs k-groove is absurd. K-groove's meter is temporary, and it only charges when you get hit, and it doesn't carry over rounds. Not to mention one super is 10 times less impactful in a game like cvs2 where you have 3 different characters with different ratios which is essentially means you have 6 damn rounds to play.

Now you have a super that requires no execution skills, you can use it whenever the heck you want, you can build the meter by sitting back and spamming medium punch, and it carries over to the later rounds, and if landed takes 70% on freaking Zangief?? Also it's in a game where it's only 2 rounds to win. That's crazy to me.

Also you mention this system is no different then KOF? there's a reason nobody plays those games.

In no way do I think it's gonna ruin the game, but damn it's still pretty dumb to have that kinda damage from one super.

wow there are so many things wrong here

you can't build meter whiffing normals

you have to get hit

meter doesn't carry over to other rounds

it does as much as a k groove/level 3 super

[Kamui]

This system has been in other games! How many fighting games have existed where you're granted access to a super when your life reaches 10-20%? Countless.

Your crack about KOF is meaningless, most of the world likes those games.

Additionally, revenge meter doesn't carry over to the next round. All meters reset at the end of a bout.

comparing it to cvs k-groove is absurd. K-groove's meter is temporary, and it only charges when you get hit, and it doesn't carry over rounds. Not to mention one super is 10 times less impactful in a game like cvs2 where you have 3 different characters with different ratios.

[Kamui]

The last three good SF games had Custom Combos or absurdly powerful super systems that forced you to play the same waiting game. This is no different.

How many times are people going to make the K-Groove comparison and have it shot down before they realize its invalid? Dealing with a raged K-Groove is simply a waiting game, thanks to the fact that their meter runs out. Not so with Ultras.

[(RedBeard)]

As has been mentioned 100 times over, this system already exists. It's called K Groove in CvS2. Players earn meter for taking damage. The only difference here is that the meter doesn't slowly deplete once a character becomes raged. This system is also no different from Desperation Supers in KOF, in which case you had to be at 25% of your health or less to gain access to a super. As dumb as the idea sounds on paper, it's been done before many times over, and never has it really been a problem.

This game is not CvS2, nor is it KOF or SS. Just because it wasn't a problem in those games doesn't mean it won't be a problem in this one, and the systems are extremely different from each other. That's like me saying that Guilty Gear's burst system worked really well in GG, so it must work in any other game they put it in. Yeah, in K Groove you get raged, and your meter drains and you have a limited period to toss that move out. You can also get raged at very inconvenient times. I think the KOF series in general is kinda bad so I won't go into that since I haven't even played many of them.

The super that we saw simply does too much damage, on top of having invincibility and you can use it on YOUR watch. To be frank I just think it's a stupid, and unnecessary mechanic to add to the game. People work to get an advantage for a reason, and if they want to prevent slippery slope I think there could be far less radical ways to ensure that the losing player at least has some options to come back.

[Katanai]

Is it me or did they tone down the speed of the jumps? They look much better now imo...

[Kamui]

I completely agree that there are better ways to handle a super system, but ultras are probably the last thing people should be worrying about. Looking at history, these sort of systems have rarely ruined games. They aren't safe for use in reversal situations, so they can be out guessed and dealt with in the same manner as any reversal (unlike custom combos, which are for more dangerous than an ultra in every way). If someone is looking to use an Ultra in an intelligent manner (A.k.a. looking for a verifiable way of landing it off of a combo), the game then turns into the same waiting game present in every other SF. It doesn't really matter if they gain the meter for losing, meter is obtained for taking and blocking hits in many SF games, the amount is only bigger here. It was also easier to build meter in older SF games (apparently), so losing players were often sitting on super or custom regardless of that.

There's simply no reason to be freaking out about another super combo system, especially considering that only 3-4 people on this forum have played the game.


The super that we saw simply does too much damage, on top of having invincibility and you can use it on YOUR watch. To be frank I just think it's a stupid, and unnecessary mechanic to add to the game. People work to get an advantage for a reason, and if they want to prevent slippery slope I think there could be far less radical ways to ensure that the losing player at least has some options to come back.

[AlphaDragoon02]

Is it me or did they tone down the speed of the jumps? They look much better now imo...

It looks that way to me also.

And Jesus H. Christ, Ultras do retarded damage. :wow:

P.S. Ken's Ultra is a brand-new move that looks awesome (albeit a combo of his previous two SAs)? And yet Ryu gets a slightly flashier version of the Shinkuu Hadouken that pretty much looks the same as his Super. Yay. :shake:

SSRK, Capcom. For reals.

[KrsJin]

I don't see Ultras really being used in competitive play...seriously. (Rest was cut)

I agree with this man. I mean, it's not to say we won't ever see them or anything like that, but if you're getting hit by this shit consistantly, maybe you should step your game up or settle with being bad at the game lol.

And wth man. Can you not be perma-banned on this site? Why is evo/Celtic garbage back again? I liked posting and not seeing threads riddled with ignored members.

(And before someone says to un-ignore him, won't do that lol, sorry.)

[zerog]

I agree with this man. I mean, it's not to say we won't ever see them or anything like that, but if you're getting hit by this shit consistantly, maybe you should step your game up or settle with being bad at the game lol.

Everybody gets hit by a random super, everybody makes a mistake during a match. Being ahead in a round by a near perfect, and then completely losing because you got hit by one random move or you make one mistake is dumb.

The last three good SF games had Custom Combos or absurdly powerful super systems that forced you to play the same waiting game. This is no different.

Custom combos that require skill and execution to connect, not a random fireball motion that takes 70% of your life.

[archetype]

Ultra's will be used in competitive play, I dunno why anyone would think they wouldn't.

[EndLeSS8]

Ken's Ultra looked really similar to his Level 3 in SFEX2

[The Switcher]

I like how Ono has said, multiple times, their constantly retooling the Ultras/Revenge/Super Bars.

But people complain when they see stuff like like this, as if it's set in stone by Moses or something.

Sigh.

That Ultra was sick.

[fallot]

Your sarcasm and condescension is misplaced. As always. Everyone realizes its not set in stone. What's wrong with saying its seemingly retarded in its current form (the one in the vid) ?

[clue2025]

I said this before that it probably won't be used much in competitive play because how often do high level players get hit, especially consistently? I think that a good way to build it is if you get combo'ed up. I mean, if you just sit back and block and take a punch or two, then screw that. Maybe give a little bit of meter. But if someone gets into a 3-? hit combo then build the meter more so. They already said Ken's BnB combo does 50% damage? Then thats a good reason to build it that way because you can't get out of a combo.

[Sexperienced.]

his ultra would've looked better without the kicks.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

Why in the devil are people worried about ultras? There have always been super combos that inflict huge damage, and rarely did they ever destroy a game. They aren't custom combos, they can't be salvaged, and they don't inflict 50% chip damage. They aren't even dealing damage that's really that obscene yet. They're just K Groove super combos. Everyone needs to chill out and stop overreacting to every perceived problem.

Yeah... It's not like people complained about Ryu's SA2 or Hugo's SA1. Pretty much the same thing I'd say. Now every character just has a super strong super too.

[Shining_C']

Gettin hit with that ultra filled up Zangief's rage gauge, so if he played a lil smarter at the end he coulda still killed Ken, and dont forget that if you dont die from it you now have an ultra they have to watch out for.

[zerog]

Gettin hit with that ultra filled up Zangief's rage gauge, so if he played a lil smarter at the end he coulda still killed Ken, and dont forget that if you dont die from it you now have an ultra they have to watch out for.

At that point, both players would have no life left, so worrying about an ultra is next to nothing.

I'd like to know what's gonna happen when people start doing jump-in roundhouse, standing fierce punch into ultra

[epy0nkaru]

reminds me of HishoBuraikyaku
also reminds me of furious fandango

[AlphaDragoon02]

reminds me of HishoBuraikyaku
also reminds me of Ryuuko Ranbu

Fixed for non-lame Maximum Impact translations. :rofl:

And yeah, it does look akin to a Kyokugen-style super.

[Shining_C']

Hopefully damage scaling.:wgrin:

[P.o.t.S.]

reminds me of HishoBuraikyaku
also reminds me of furious fandango
More like SFEX Kuzuryuu Reppa (V.Ken also has it in SvC).

[goodm0urning]

A question for the Ultra naysayers: if the Ultra meter was temporary, with the same time limit as the K-meter in CvS2, would you change your minds?

[Nokato]

A question for the Ultra naysayers: if the Ultra meter was temporary, with the same time limit as the K-meter in CvS2, would you change your minds?

I mentioned that and I think its a start to making Ultra's seemingly less "broken" to people who seem to be affronted by them...not sure how others feel about it yet though.

[Gutter Trash]

K-Groove is too stressfull, having a time limit sucks, the other player would turtle as you would try to step up to try move in closer while your opponent would zone you out.

Ryu, Guile and Sagat would be laughing at their opponent when their limit time would be up.

[CarpeNoctumXIII]

Wow that was just retarded. I hope it doesn't stay that way, or else it's just rediculous. That looked like 60-70% on 'Gief, and if it's anything like 3s, he'll have more health then everyone else. If Akuma is in, he's a dead man even if he has 100% if they don't change it.

[COUM]

K-Groove is stupid too, in my view... if we're talking degrees of stupidity then it's certainly less so, but still stupid.

I just find the idea that I should have to radically change up my gameplan simply because I'm winning to be contrary to the principles of interesting fighting game strategy. To me, part of what makes fighting games strategically interesting is the dynamic of testing your approach against the opponent's, and riding that out until the opponent demonstrates that they are capable of countering it. Conversely, having to work to counter a dominant opponent's strategy is just as enjoyable. The whole concept of the high-damage super as a reward for getting beaten up dilutes this concept, regardless of whether it's on a timer or not.

Of course, in actual play, it seems unlikely that you'll see a bunch of people getting nailed by random Ultras (although I'm sure it will happen more often than is acceptable), but that's always the way with overpowered mechanics; much like parrying, or GCFS, or step G, it's not the immediate effects of the mechanic in application that are the problem, but the manner of play encouraged by attempting to avoid falling victim to them. In the case of Ultras, I'd wager you're going to see a lot of people backing off and playing it safe when their opponent gets full revenge, even if they've been playing a very aggressive game previous to that. I don't see how this is a good thing in any way.

[Cascade]

Ken's Ultra I like. Always giving Ken the good stuff. The damage was a killer.

[arstal]

I think the best solution- ultras should be once per match...

That way you can steal one round but not two. Either that or be unable to gain revenge meter after it.

That system worked in SSVSP with it's meditation/rage system (which I still think is the best meter system in any fighter ever)

You got something really powerful once per match, but you had to figure out when to use it. There was a little glitchiness involved, like being able to rage out a couple people's DMs, but there was a ton of depth to the system overall. (And even those glitches added depth)

[Genetix1234]

ono's reasoning was to make every game down to the wire suspenseful

where each player has the potential of making a come back if beaten down to a near perfect

imo, i think it'll make matches that much more entertaining to watch

[CarpeNoctumXIII]

ono's reasoning was to make every game down to the wire suspenseful

where each player has the potential of making a come back if beaten down to a near perfect

imo, i think it'll make matches that much more entertaining to watch

Do I need to post the Daigo full parry? Really, I don't think it will. Good players come back even without the need of a Ultra, and it's even more exciting that way.

[Genetix1234]

Do I need to post the Daigo full parry? Really, I don't think it will. Good players come back even without the need of a Ultra, and it's even more exciting that way.

Daigo's full parry was a rare occassion. Even some of the best/average comebacks from third strike matches are rare and don't occur THAT often.

The concept of an Ultra makes the comebacks that much more frequent.

[CarpeNoctumXIII]

Daigo's full parry was a rare occassion. Even some of the best/average comebacks from third strike matches are rare and don't occur THAT often.

The concept of an Ultra makes the comebacks that much more frequent.

Well isn't that why they are surprising and entertaining? If all of a sudden it happens all the time(and there is nothing pointing to this being the case), no one's going to care really.

[SlothHands]

Daigo's full parry was a rare occassion. Even some of the best/average comebacks from third strike matches are rare and don't occur THAT often.

The concept of an Ultra makes the comebacks that much more frequent.

I rather see a player of skill make a skillful comeback then a simple "I revenge win" motion. It makes witnessing them comebacks much more memorable and meaningful. Sure watching an ultra is fun but it can probably be tiresome especially when every damn newbie does it too.

[Gaijinblaze]

Daigo's full parry was a rare occassion. Even some of the best/average comebacks from third strike matches are rare and don't occur THAT often.

The concept of an Ultra makes the comebacks that much more frequent.
That's exactly why game-assisted comebacks are stupid. That kind of frequency will eventually diminish the impact of comebacks because everybody is always doing them. Imagine how you'll feel seeing someone do an ultra after being on the losing end of a round 3 years from now.

Even if ultras are not that good, I think there has to be a better way to make matches interesting and friendly to new players other than "the guy who's losing gets to pull out a grenade launcher."

[FreshOJ]

Daigo's full parry was a rare occassion. Even some of the best/average comebacks from third strike matches are rare and don't occur THAT often.

The concept of an Ultra makes the comebacks that much more frequent.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

If my experience with Street Fighter 4 is anything like my experience with Samurai Shodown 2's Ukyo Tachibana and his long-ranged, pretty swift, randomly dizzying 40% damage df+AB slash with full Rage meter, that will certainly raise my level of contempt for Ultras. While I like SS2 and consider it the best of its series, that was one thing I didn't like about that game. Ukyo was seriously overpowered in that game.

Comebacks are special because they are worked for, not handed out randomly by giving that player access to more tools than the person winning.

In watching that video, I saw that Zangief's EX SPD did horribly low damage. I'm guessing that you take less damage as you get lower in health, but does the Revenge Meter have any impact on how much damage you take? (I could see a raged opponent taking less damage from being so pumped up. Rocky 3 and 4, anyone?)

[EndLeSS8]

If my experience with Street Fighter 4 is anything like my experience with Samurai Shodown 2's Ukyo Tachibana and his long-ranged, pretty swift, randomly dizzying 40% damage df+AB slash with full Rage meter, that will certainly raise my level of contempt for Ultras. While I like SS2 and consider it the best of its series, that was one thing I didn't like about that game. Ukyo was seriously overpowered in that game.


Side note:
I agree that Ukyo was a bit overpowered in SS2, but he had crappy stamina.

One time, I missed a down AB slash on my friend's Genjuro. He was raged. I had 100% health.
He hit me with a standing raged AB slash.

It took off 75% life, and dizzied me.
He hit me with another AB slash, and killed me. :rofl:
I'm not lying. We both were laughing after.

[Genetix1234]

All I'm saying is that comebacks will be more frequent. Whether they are appealing to you, is your opinion.

[FreshOJ]

Side note:
I agree that Ukyo was a bit overpowered in SS2, but he had crappy stamina.

One time, I missed a down AB slash on my friend's Genjuro. He was raged. I had 100% health.
He hit me with a standing raged AB slash.

It took off 75% life, and dizzied me.
He hit me with another AB slash, and killed me. :rofl:
I'm not lying. We both were laughing after.

Just about everyone in that game had a "sweet spot" in their AB attacks that would do insane damage like that. Genjuro's far standing AB was another agregiously damaging move at full rage.

But hey...at least he didn't catch you with close crouching AB, far standing AB. *That* would've probably killed outright.

Anyway...I don't want to see those type of comebacks in SF4.

[goodm0urning]

That's exactly why game-assisted comebacks are stupid. That kind of frequency will eventually diminish the impact of comebacks because everybody is always doing them. Imagine how you'll feel seeing someone do an ultra after being on the losing end of a round 3 years from now.That isn't the concern back at SF headquarters.

Ono: "Dude, go find the most popular Street Fighter video on YouTube and figure out what's happening in the match that makes people like it."

Dude: "Yessir."

*dude leaves, and comes back*

Ono: "Well?"

Dude: "Ono-san, the most popular video is the one where the guy random supers and the other guy blocks all the hits, then combos to win."

Ono: "I see... the kids like big comebacks, eh?"

Dude: "Yessir. Perhaps if they're told they will be able to make similar comebacks in the next game, they will be more likely to buy it."

Ono: "I see..." *tweaks mustache*

[FreshOJ]

All I'm saying is that comebacks will be more frequent. Whether they are appealing to you, is your opinion.

But that's not all you're *implying*.

Again, the more frequent a thing is, the less special it will be. Familiarity breeds contempt. It's a tried and true concept.

I'm sure it'll be interesting to see just how that plays out, but, in the end, if comebacks involving Ultras are as easy as they looked in the original post's video, they won't be very special. I have to admit that I wasn't impressed...especially because the Zangief player basically gave away the round after he got hit with the Ultra.

[Genetix1234]

But that's not all you're *implying*.



Yes, that is all I'm implying.

[fatboy]

It is either , ultra's or crazy ass two button activation customs.... I would prefer the Ultra's. Needless to say, I am stilll looking foraward to the game!

[Pablo_the_Mex]

That isn't the concern back at SF headquarters.

Ono: "Dude, go find the most popular Street Fighter video on YouTube and figure out what's happening in the match that makes people like it."

Dude: "Yessir."

*dude leaves, and comes back*

Ono: "Well?"

Dude: "Ono-san, the most popular video is the one where the guy random supers and the other guy blocks all the hits, then combos to win."

Ono: "I see... the kids like big comebacks, eh?"

Dude: "Yessir. Perhaps if they're told they will be able to make similar comebacks in the next game, they will be more likely to buy it."

Ono: "I see..." *tweaks mustache*

Very likely. That video is both a blessing and a curse. Countless fanboys rose from their graves for that one.

[Manx]

I didn't read the thread, so I don't know if this has been caught yet or not, buuuut... at 0:18 Ken jumps in Roundhouse on Lariat and doesn't get hit. Twice. I remember that ST 'Gief could be hit out of lariat with a directly overhead attack, but getting an attack like that was extremely rare because it just wasn't safe to attempt. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but doesn't it look like Gief was getting owned by jump-ins during lariat? Looks too easy to punish with a random jumping RH.

[Rhythm1c]

I didn't read the thread, so I don't know if this has been caught yet or not, buuuut... at 0:18 Ken jumps in Roundhouse on Lariat and doesn't get hit. Twice. I remember that ST 'Gief could be hit out of lariat with a directly overhead attack, but getting an attack like that was extremely rare because it just wasn't safe to attempt. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but doesn't it look like Gief was getting owned by jump-ins during lariat? Looks too easy to punish with a random jumping RH.



Somebody who got to play one of the beta test machines had said that his lariat wasn't so good as an anti air anymore and that for whatever odd reason his glove attack was better. At the very least it still went though fireballs though.

Might have just been bullshit however.

[FreshOJ]

It is either , ultra's or crazy ass two button activation customs.... I would prefer the Ultra's. Needless to say, I am stilll looking foraward to the game!

Actually, it's Ultra Combos that currently don't use super meter, dash-cancelling EX moves, and dash-cancelling Focus Attacks into dash-cancelled EX moves. I'm looking forward to the game, too, but I'm seriously hoping those things don't break it. If any Ultra in the game allows you to juggle after it...especially with a super or EX move........oh boy.

[FreshOJ]

I didn't read the thread, so I don't know if this has been caught yet or not, buuuut... at 0:18 Ken jumps in Roundhouse on Lariat and doesn't get hit. Twice. I remember that ST 'Gief could be hit out of lariat with a directly overhead attack, but getting an attack like that was extremely rare because it just wasn't safe to attempt. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but doesn't it look like Gief was getting owned by jump-ins during lariat? Looks too easy to punish with a random jumping RH.

I don't think the Zangief player timed it right. It looked a little early to me...like he was trying to hit him with his arms, instead of doing it right as Ken's foot came out.

If he would've ducked and then did it, that would've helped.

But that's if it still has the same properties as before...

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

How are Ultra's broken or overpowered? You can't even use it until your almost dead. A few hits and you're dead.

An SA2 Ryu from 3s is more scary than someone with a full Revenge meter simply because the SA2 Ryu can start the round with a full meter, or he can still have almost full HP at the time he has his full meter. All it takes is one parry from him, or a link and you'll eat a ShinSho.

Treat an Ultra combo the same way you would treat a SA2 Ryu who has full meter. Only difference is, the opponent will be close to dead already and he can't parry your pokes, so poke away.

Yes I know, the ultra combo we just seen in the video does about 80% damage, and that's against ZANGIEF. I'm sure they are going to tone down the damage, or they haven't finished the whole stamina mechanics or whatever.

[COUM]

Are EX moves even still dash cancelable? We haven't seen that at all in the AOU build or any of the later builds. Given some of the changes from what we first heard (e.g. Focus attacks not requiring meter, Ultras not requiring Super meter, EX moves using Super rather than Revenge meter...) I wouldn't be surprised if they removed it. Though that begs the question of why the Revenge meter starts flashing at half-full if you can't even use it for anything until it's totally full.

[COUM]

How are Ultra's broken or overpowered? You can't even use it until your almost dead. A few hits and you're dead.

An SA2 Ryu from 3s is more scary than someone with a full Revenge meter simply because the SA2 Ryu can start the round with a full meter, or he can still have almost full HP at the time he has his full meter. All it takes is one parry from him, or a link and you'll eat a ShinSho.

Treat an Ultra combo the same way you would treat a SA2 Ryu who has full meter. Only difference is, the opponent will be close to dead already and he can't parry your pokes, so poke away.

SA2 Ryu actually has to do something to get his meter.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

SA2 Ryu actually has to do something to get his meter.

I don't see your point. He can run away and whiff all day until his meter is full. Not to mention he can recharge it.

You only get 1 ultra per round... That is if you don't waste your revenge meter using focus strikes, otherwise you won't have enough life to recharge your revenge meter. I'm not sure if focus strikes use it's own meter or not.

[Hatred Edge]

I don't see your point. He can run away and whiff all day until his meter is full. Not to mention he can recharge it.

You only get 1 ultra per round... That is if you don't waste your revenge meter using focus strikes, otherwise you won't have enough life to recharge your revenge meter.

I've seen a C.Viper player pull of an Ultra TWICE in one round. And she wasn't near dead at all. If I can find it I'll edit it in. I remember this because I thought Ultras required super meter but she had barely a half bar full...

[Genetix1234]

I don't see your point. He can run away and whiff all day until his meter is full. Not to mention he can recharge it.

You only get 1 ultra per round... That is if you don't waste your revenge meter using focus strikes, otherwise you won't have enough life to recharge your revenge meter.

Only Ultras use the revenge meter that we've seen so far. Focus strikes don't cost anything unless it's canceled it from a normal or move. In that case it uses a portion of your super bar and you glow yellow like performing an EX.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

I remember this because I thought Ultras required super meter but she had barely a half bar full...

Yeah... That's what was said in some articles way back in december or something... But now it seems they changed it.

It makes more sense that Ultras require a super meter too though.

[Hatred Edge]

Yeah... That's what was said in some articles way back in december or something... But now it seems they changed it.

It makes more sense that Ultras require a super meter too though.

In the vid that shows Kens Ultra in the second round look at the revenge meter... When it fills halfway it starts to flash and can still be filled up. I wonder if it can be filled so that you can actually have the meter to pull two Ultras back to back like Viper did. I originally thought that once you have access to a Ultra the bar stops filling but instead it looks like the revenge meter is like 3S super guages meaning even if you still do an Ultra you'll still have some meter left.

[COUM]

I don't see your point. He can run away and whiff all day until his meter is full. Not to mention he can recharge it.

You only get 1 ultra per round... That is if you don't waste your revenge meter using focus strikes, otherwise you won't have enough life to recharge your revenge meter. I'm not sure if focus strikes use it's own meter or not.

:rolleyes: Running away with Ryu is hardly a viable strategy, and if he's whiffing pokes on the other side of the screen, dashing up into poke range is sure to make him stop that. You can't do anything to stop someone from getting Revenge meter, because your opponent will build it simply from you doing what you have to do to win.

Who cares if you only get one per round when one successful guess could mean instantly regaining the advantage, if not winning the match outright? Besides, as I said previously, the main problem isn't going to be the abuse of Ultras themselves, but how the threat of getting hit by one encourages the player to back off and play it safe because they had the audacity to beat up their opponent! Can you really not see how fucking stupid that is?

[DarkNecrid]

I've seen a C.Viper player pull of an Ultra TWICE in one round. And she wasn't near dead at all. If I can find it I'll edit it in. I remember this because I thought Ultras required super meter but she had barely a half bar full...

It wasn't setup in the preview units, so they didn't require Revenge Meter.

[TrueSephiroth]

I don't see your point. He can run away and whiff all day until his meter is full. Not to mention he can recharge it.

You only get 1 ultra per round... That is if you don't waste your revenge meter using focus strikes, otherwise you won't have enough life to recharge your revenge meter. I'm not sure if focus strikes use it's own meter or not.

Umm..first off, Ex-Options are extremely crucial to Ryu, and the Shin-Shoryuken Bar is simply ridiculously huge in 3S. Not to mention, you have to be in close to land the thing once it's activated. Not to mention, if you plan to stock it, you have to not rely upon using Ex-Options which is one of Ryu's most potent arsenals...basically you are losing a strong point of Ryu's game.

If you completely whiff, your back at square one, Huge Meter, Plus No Ex-Options. It makes it not retarded, also, the fact that the entire cast doesn't have a Shinshoryuken as well makes alot of difference.

Besides, how many people on the top lvl for SFIII still use SAII as their form instead of more reliable SAI or super threat potential SAIII?

Shinshoryuken should not even be remotely compared to Ultra's considering it's an individual character move, and it's not even Ryu's best Super Art. Comebacks, should always be earned, not one move wonders that change the tide of battle on a whim.

I mean, at this moment, Ken's Ultra does nearly 70% life, you don't call that kind of crazy? Yet, we still are forgetting Supers as well, which are another high damaging part of the game play for SFIV.

Again, for me, I am not entirely thrilled about Ultra's, the losing player should have to work his ass off to make a comeback, not activate Ultra have it land and he's back in the game. Just remember here, if say SF IV came out right now, and Ultra's where left at the damage that they are, say around 60-70% life...that means every time you play and you have 70% life or less, and someone has Ultra...you could potentially lose that round completely with one mistake.

I don't see how that's going to make SF IV better from a game mechanics and competitive standpoint.

It's almost like Tekken 6 Rage System...let's reward the losing player for getting his ass handed to him...to me, that makes absolutely no sense.

[FreshOJ]

How are Ultra's broken or overpowered? You can't even use it until your almost dead. A few hits and you're dead.

That's not true. Take a look at the demos that Seth Killian did on GameSpot. After purposely getting beat up, the character he is using loses about 60% of their energy and has the Revenge Meter full enough for an Ultra...all at the same time. It also looked like four consecutive hard attacks caused a dizzy.

[AlphaDragoon02]

It's almost like Tekken 6 Rage System...let's reward the losing player for getting his ass handed to him...to me, that makes absolutely no sense.

Exactly.

Hopefully they tweak the damage on Ultras, as we can all pretty much agree they're way overpowered in this current build.

[zerog]

Does nobody realize that parrying a full super and doing the most damaging "combo" after you parry the super, that does 35% max damage is hard and takes skill?

There's nothing amazing and entertaining or skill full about some random super that requires a fireball motion done on wake up and taking away 70% of damage

[shinblanka]

Stop whining about ultra's! Kill them before they can hit you with it. People did the samething with AC's in A2 and ac's suck in a3. I like it when supers work like they were meant to work! Supers are not suppose to be enders for combo's! They are suppose to be your characters strongest moves! It's suppose to hurt like a mothafucker! I'm fine with something called an ULTRA SUPER taking 50-60% damage! The wackest shit in sf3 is when I get normal grabed out of a super! That's like ryu doing the hadoken on SF the anime movie and sagat walking up and throw him ouit of it! That's not suppose to happen poeple!! They are called supers for a reason damnit! I personally love the idea that supers will become supers again and not just combo finishers!

[Hatred Edge]

If they keep it the same, I'll like to see your response when you start losing matches because of these Ultras.

[R.P.D rookie]

Stop whining about ultra's! Kill them before they can hit you with it. People did the samething with AC's in A2 and ac's suck in a3. I like it when supers work like they were meant to work! Supers are not suppose to be enders for combo's! They are suppose to be your characters strongest moves! It's suppose to hurt like a mothafucker! I'm fine with something called an ULTRA SUPER taking 50-60% damage! The wackest shit in sf3 is when I get normal grabed out of a super! That's like ryu doing the hadoken on SF the anime movie and sagat walking up and throw him ouit of it! That's not suppose to happen poeple!! They are called supers for a reason damnit! I personally love the idea that supers will become supers again and not just combo finishers!



Gotta love Makoto grabbing Q right out of his SA1. I swear a year falls off my life expectancy everytime that happens.

[Yamazaki35]

I was also under the impression you needed full revenge and super bar to make it work. Seems like a better idea to me.

If everyone can do rowdy damage with an ultra, thent he distinction between good and bad ultras would simply be how easy it is to land. Say if Ken had a safe verifiable way to land as opposed to Dhalsim for example, who may have a very limited and risky way to hit his. (I dont know what Sims is Im just using him)

On a side note, EX Piledriver did pretty weak damage, but note that Gief recovered fast, enough to pursue.

[sowutifmahsnsux]

wtf! this revenge meter is gettin on my nerves. comebacks should be made solely by the player, not become "automatic" with the execution of an "ultra". sure you still have to land it, but i bet with the revenge system, we're gonna be seeing a LOT more "comebacks", meaning they just wont be something of outright skill and never say die attitude anymore

[NotGood]

It's funny that some of the players talking about skill use 3s as their example.......

[ElderGOD]

They should have used Violent Ken's Shinbu Messatsu as an Ultra.

That would have been awesome.

Since the game isn't complete yet, I'm sure there are lots of balance changes to be made.

Anyways, exceeds in SvC did damage and could be combo'd into.

The Shin Shoryuken example was pointless. In 3S you can just parry it, same for Denjin. You can also just jump up...

I don't mind having an Ultra do big damage, but you shouldn't be allowed to combo into it then.

c.mk xx Ultra is just retarded.

[shinblanka]

If they keep it the same, I'll like to see your response when you start losing matches because of these Ultras.

It will be the same as I feel in ST when supers are invincible and take 50%! Oh well I got caught slipping!:amazed::rolleyes::looney: I guess that's my old school view of what supers are SUPPOSE to work like! You don't get jab or short out of supers in ST! If you wake up with a super and they are doing anything you eat the super if the super comes out! STop throwing out random attacks when people are getting up and stop jumping so fucking much like rabbits!!!:confused: I can't wait to play sf4. I know i'm in the minority about the ultra's being fine with ultra's being strong as fuck, but I like that old school feel. Hell I didn't like it when the alpha series made level's of supers. Hell I seen people jump kick someone out of the level 3 p. crusher of bison in A3. That's hella gay IMO! Your normal attacks are not suppose to stop supers people. I don't care how meaty you place that attack. If you can hit or throw someone out of a super why even build meter for the move? if it's worthless to use like a true super then just make a game without super meters and call them combo finishers! The only way you can do them is at the end of a combo since that the only way they are used in the new fighting games!:rolleyes::confused:

[Nairdas]

Y'know I'm not liking the damage on that ultra either, but at the same time Ryu's c.fk xx Shin Shoryuken in cvs1 did almost the same amount of damage and I benefited from that a lot.

Then again nobody else had that type of damaging combo in cvs.

[COUM]

You didn't get a super for getting beat up in ST :rolleyes:

p.s. I don't know why people are worried about being able to combo into these. That they'll have invincible startup and be usable as reversals has far more damning implications than being able to combo into them. Think about it: if you've beat up the opponent enough for them to have an ultra, but they only way they can hit you with it is by comboing into it, you just have to keep up the pressure and not give them a chance to regain the advantage, which isn't too much to ask given they need to be low on health to have an Ultra anyway. But if they're useful as reversals, any random guess could be 70% of your life, which basically means you can't pressure... Both situations are stupid, but I'd be far more worried about the latter.

[JAMSMASTERP]

Dont you take less damage when your life bar is low in most games, hence ex spd did little damage. Also dont you inflict more damage in most sf games if you have little life and your opponent has alot. I may be wrong but isnt it like this in alot of sf games.

[shinblanka]

Dont you take less damage when your life bar is low in most games, hence ex spd did little damage. Also dont you inflict more damage in most sf games if you have little life and your opponent has alot. I may be wrong but isnt it like this in alot of sf games.

Well I'm no game designer, but in sf2ww it seem like when you was losing you did more damage and dizzy fools easier! I remember this because snk took it a step further in SS2 by putting a rage meter in the game just like playing K groove in cvs2! Ratio2 blanka can do the following

While in rage mode in K groove

Cross up-3 ducking SKicks standing jp into the super for 70% on most ratio 2 characters! 75% on akuma I think! Or maybe that's r2 blanka on a r1 akuma! Either way people don't bitch about the 50-60% K groove supers in cvs2 so why butch about ultras!?! I know why because most of 50% supers are useless in 3s when sometimes you get thrown out of them! Its better to use the combo super in 3s IMO. I personally wish they would get rid of supers if the don't work like they suppose to WORK!

Here is the roots of real sf gameplay.

Footies
Mind games
Controlling space

If sf4 have those elements in its gameplay I will be a happy camper! If I lose to an ultra then I lose! Don't matter how I lose the match! In my eyes I lost! I have more of a problem with custom combos meters like v-ism and A groove in a game with a gaurd meter! Also I have a problem with unblockable supers that lead into 50% combos! I think that's fucked up and I use oro on 3S! Any unblockable is broken bullshit and should be banned in 3S and mvc2, but that would be scrub talk wouldn't it sir? Everyone don't worry about it!

[Only Yamazaki]

can i call shenanigans? no one thinks that the addition of ultras are ridiculous? and is it me or is there no damage scaling? i'm probably gonna get flamed for this but i'm honestly not THAT excited about the game.

[DevilJin 01]

Personally I haven't seen yet what makes the Ultras "so strong". I mean...has anyone seen that video of Honda playing against Guile during the unveiling of Sagat and Balrog at one of the location tests? Honda's Ultra sure seems to do a lot of damage but the priority seems pretty awful. Guile easily kicked Honda out of the start up of his Ultra in one of the vids. Unless they're easy to combo into or have other properties I'm not aware of I don't see them as ridiculous yet. Problem with Ultras is that the line between making them fun and powerful yet balanced is very thin.

[Azrael]

No matter how damaging it is, you still have to LAND the ultra. If one player is getting completely outclassed by another, there's no reason why the first player should be able to magically land this super-damage-dealing blow when none of their other attacks and strategies proved that effective.

If both players are evenly paced with each other, then both players will have just about the same amount of revenge meter and will both have the same tools available to them.

[DevilJin 01]

Yeah...it'll be like everyone having K groove in CVS2. Better player is still gonna win. Ultras aren't going to make things that much more random I don't think. I mean of course there'll a few characters that will have Ultras that are a bit more useful but they still have to find a way to get them to hit. Plus this game will obviously get patched up should something about the Ultras appear to be too strong.

[Septimus Prime]

It's really more like P Groove than K Groove, if you think about it. Also, I'd imagine that, if you survive an Ultra, you should have one stocked yourself.

I'm still not really diggin' it, though.

[Gutter Trash]

Personally I haven't seen yet what makes the Ultras "so strong". I mean...has anyone seen that video of Honda playing against Guile during the unveiling of Sagat and Balrog at one of the location tests? Honda's Ultra sure seems to do a lot of damage but the priority seems pretty awful. Guile easily kicked Honda out of the start up of his Ultra in one of the vids. Unless they're easy to combo into or have other properties I'm not aware of I don't see them as ridiculous yet. Problem with Ultras is that the line between making them fun and powerful yet balanced is very thin.

True about Honda's Ultra.. and one thing many are forgetting is that some Supers are average and below average.
Blanka and Honda still seem to have to least practical Supers just like in ST, but compensating them with a great ULTRA, then that is okay in my book.

[TS]

If I picked your favorite game, and showed someone doing a 60% damage combo with relative ease off of a simple mistake, you'd probably still say it was retarded- that doesn't mean the game is bad.

[shinblanka]

It's really more like P Groove than K Groove, if you think about it. Also, I'd imagine that, if you survive an Ultra, you should have one stocked yourself.

I'm still not really diggin' it, though.

Well P-groove supers are the weakest of any level 3 damage super in cvs2!:shake::confused:


And if you get hit by a ultra most likely you will have a ultra to return the favor!:rolleyes::wgrin:

It's the samething with K-groove in cvs2 imo.

[Azrael]

C-Groove Kyo with full meter has some stupidly powerful super-cancel combos. The best one I can think of starts from jump-in -> C.FP. Congratulations if you land that though. V-Akuma in A3 with any sort of meter is almost like guaranteed damage. CvS1 CAP Ryu with full meter = run the fuck away. CvS2 A-Bison with full meter = run the fuck away, quickly.

Big damage moves/combos are nothing new.

[Capn Spanky]

What I'm more concerned about is the flow of this game. In the vid it looked like Ken would jump in on Gief ALL DAY. I don't know how skilled the Gief player was, but either way, jump ins shouldn't appear that easy.

[TS]

Zangief still won.

Anyway lariat is really buff in this game from what I understand. At least, for now- who knows if they'll tone it down in the final version.

edit: as in, deep lariat, A3 style. Also, it's not like there's a guard meter or anything in SF4- even if you can jump in on him for free it may or may not really help you, especially if it gets you nowhere safe.

[Capn Spanky]

Zangief still won.

Anyway lariat is really buff in this game from what I understand. At least, for now- who knows if they'll tone it down in the final version.

edit: as in, deep lariat, A3 style. Also, it's not like there's a guard meter or anything in SF4- even if you can jump in on him for free it may or may not really help you, especially if it gets you nowhere safe.

Valid arguments. Though it did seem to me that Ken didn't capitalize on all the jumping in he could have done. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Ken's j.MK beat Gief's Lariat?

[TS]

Early jump attack beat late lariat, but deep/late lariat seems to be more effective as anti-air. Though in all honesty that could be untrue now, since there are differences in the various builds. I did see Zangief use a jumping attack as anti-air OG style with some success, but there's really no way to know how many of his old AA moves will work.

edit: more importantly, Zangief can dash ->mixup after SPD now, which means people might want to keep him out more than they want to get in on him.

[dialupsucky]

If its been said sorry, but so basicly kens shinryuken now I can assume is like shin shoryuken. If it hits with first hit he goes to beat em up super, shinryuken thing jig. But if he misses he does just regular shinryuken?

So my question is, wtf happens in instances where you DP a limb with this super? Especialy considering the game goes into the 3D view effect thing. Does ken just teleport to you and start comboing you? Or does he just attack thin air and the other guy just moves around freely?

[P.o.t.S.]

edit: more importantly, Zangief can dash ->mixup after SPD now, which means people might want to keep him out more than they want to get in on him.
Also got that move where he forces a downed opponent to stand up, which allows him to keep pressure without fearing reversals. That is... during the first week of playing the game, afterwards people will reverse from it anyway, I guess.

[Silks]

If I picked your favorite game, and showed someone doing a 60% damage combo with relative ease off of a simple mistake, you'd probably still say it was retarded- that doesn't mean the game is bad.

I concur

[gridman]

Guess I'm the only one who doesnt think this is that big of a deal then eh?

[OmegaDL50]

I think a possible suggestion to circumvent the abuse of Ultra combos would have the Revenge meter start to slowly deplete if the character does not receive damage for a period of time.

Similar to that of Custom Combo or K-Gauge drain but a much slower rate.

Or the better possibility of having Revenge Meter decrease as the character does damage

Meaning it would increase if you get hit, but when YOU attack and connect your Revenge Meter goes down.

This would produce a see-saw like effect to keep a sort of scale to the balance, so there isn't an overly huge advantage from one player to the other.

Anything is better then giving the losing character an extremely abusible sure fire come back attack without the need of skill or effort.

Unless of course performing an Ultra has a massive start up delay and leave the character wide open. (however this does not seem to be the case as the Ultra opening animation seems to stop all action on screen as it plays out)

Hopefully Capcom does something to fix this.

[AKUMA2000]

Ken's ultra looks awesome, hella damage too.

But Ken's neck looked broken after he got caught with Gief's slalm back to the ground.....lol

[clue2025]

It's funny that some of the players talking about skill use 3s as their example.......

I think it takes more skill then executing a ton of fireballs from the corner of the stage until someone messes up...

Anyways, to the topic at hand.

This ultra stuff really is ridiculous. I don't want GG in my SF4! And if you can charge your revenge while getting beat on WHILE charging your super from specials whiffing (C. Viper did her flame kick thing 5-6 times and had full meter), then thats just more means for a boring match where they just trade hit for hit then back up, whiff a special, hit, jump back whiff special. There wont even be means for a come back because no one will be fighting, they'll just be trying to GET hit while missing on purpose. Meanwhile, competitive players will play like they always do and end up getting screwed because the guy whiffing specials and hiding is gettin his shit up.

This is why I said build the meter if you get hit with a combo. Not as much with normals, not with specials. To gain big revenge meter, you need to get your ass beat, literally. I agree that if you want a comeback, you have to earn that shit. Not everyone can be Daigo or pull off what he did because it was a fluke.

[TS]

Yes, because that's all their is to non-SF3 games. Let's move on.

[YellowS4]

Gief still has his headbutt. His j.fp doesn't have as much horizontal rage as it used to, nor does it stay out for a long period of time.

I have huge problems with how ultras work, it's k-groove without the timer. So hopefully they change it so you can only use it at max revenge stock rather than the ~2 that's been showing up in all the vids. Which honestly wouldn't change much considering how fast you build r-meter and that it looks like it's easy to connect like any other super. At least if you get hit by an Ultra and don't die, you're pretty much guaranteed to have your own as well.
--------

Posted that in the vid thread when they had a link to the Ken Ultra.

[clue2025]

Yes, because that's all their is to non-SF3 games. Let's move on.

I didnt say that, because I play KOF and that takes a different kind of skill than street fighter games.

Does it seem like you do an ultra off of a super? Because it looks like it'll end up being like a Dreamcancel from KOFXI. So that pretty much guarantees that if you get hit with a super and the guy has revenge meter, you're takin it to the face.

[Rhythm1c]

How about ultras that go though fireballs...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SkahUajEFyE

So when you play against an abel and you are winning. Half way though you have to stop using fireballs or you are going to get an ultra in the face :(
Similar to what happens when boxer gets a super in ST(I've been hit for 50-60percent of my life multiple times by that super)

Though coum brings up a good point. It is sorta funkythat he gets that advantage by losing and losing only :O

[Azrael]

I want to know which version of Street Fighter you guys have been playing, where you can magically hit every big-damage super you have exactly when you want to.

EDIT
So when you play against an abel and you are winning. Half way though you have to stop using fireballs or you are going to get an ultra in the face :(
Yeah...

But then again, having to alter your attack plan when your opponent gets to a certain state has been a part of, what, every other Street Fighter game?

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

asdfagerg

My argument is not about what a character can and cannot do. I'm simply stating the fact that in 3s, when Ryu had his SA2 meter full, you don't keep pressuring him. Sure, you might try to make him whiff it, but you simply play it more safe because you don't want to get hit by the super.

Same with SF4 when the opponent has his revenge meter full. The only difference here is that the opponent is near death already.

[clue2025]

Well I guess my theory was wrong, thank god. I had an understanding that you did a super into an ultimate and thats what gave it its power.

That seemed like a weird pause between the beginning and end of the entire combo tho. That sort of reminded me of a MK fatality or some shit.

[9TNine]

This ultra stuff really is ridiculous. I don't want GG in my SF4!

... not quite sure what you're comparing to GG. If you mean GG's instant kills, then that's a pretty poor comparison.

That said, I'm still not liking the direction this game is headed. Sorry everyone.

-9

[COUM]

C-Groove Kyo with full meter has some stupidly powerful super-cancel combos. The best one I can think of starts from jump-in -> C.FP. Congratulations if you land that though. V-Akuma in A3 with any sort of meter is almost like guaranteed damage. CvS1 CAP Ryu with full meter = run the fuck away. CvS2 A-Bison with full meter = run the fuck away, quickly.

Big damage moves/combos are nothing new.

Why are you ignoring the fact that it's a move you gain access to BY GETTING BEAT UP! Can't you see how that makes a difference?

I want to know which version of Street Fighter you guys have been playing, where you can magically hit every big-damage super you have exactly when you want to.

EDIT

Yeah...

But then again, having to alter your attack plan when your opponent gets to a certain state has been a part of, what, every other Street Fighter game?

So being forced to change up a gameplan PRECISELY BECAUSE IT WAS WORKING is okay in your book? That is the most backwards-ass, anti-"Street Fighter" logic I've ever heard.

[-Beat-]

Wow... He turned that round the other way with one move. He didn't even have to earn it either. Comebacks like this look nice, but when they spoon-feed an awesome comeback to the player who is losing, it takes all of the excitement out of it. Earned comebacks are the best. One can always brag for a real comeback where it seemed like he/she had no hope, but when the game favors them, they can just expect it. I am willing to bet that the inputs for the ultras are easy, too.

I guess I will have to play it first to see how this actually is.

[Evilryu2K2]

How about ultras that go though fireballs...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SkahUajEFyE

So when you play against an abel and you are winning. Half way though you have to stop using fireballs or you are going to get an ultra in the face :(
Similar to what happens when boxer gets a super in ST(I've been hit for 50-60percent of my life multiple times by that super)

Though coum brings up a good point. It is sorta funkythat he gets that advantage by losing and losing only :O

chun's sa2 can go through fireballs in 3S... ken's shoryu reppa can do the same @ lvl3 in any sfa iirc, same for akuma's, chun's sfa senretsu kyaku, charlie... shall i go on?
it's always been like this and it'll stay like this... it's called invincibility startup (cvs2 a-groove activation, v-ism activation, super activation, custom combos activation...)

like it has been said, it's part of sf in just about every one of them:rolleyes: