Why post 97 fighters suck

[m1kekim]

Old school street fighter was never about 20+ hit combos or insane technical execution. The introduction of custom combos killed what made street fighter good in the first place. Yes Alpha 2 was broken, but at least everyone had 80%+ CCs and super combos to use. SFA2 still felt like a street fighter game.

Alpha 3 introduced crouch cancel infinities along with rounds starting will a full super bar. The game nerfed fireballs and DPs. The game became who is better at setting up and executing the inf. That's the entire game of SFA3. Think of how many match vids you've seen on youtube where the japs cut out like 50 hits of a crouch cancel inf? Unlike MVC2 an inf means an instant round win. In Marvel most people go for resets, and an inf will only kill off one character (usually).

CVS2 became similiar to A3 but less broken. A player who can RC and CC (PTF, Shosho, etc) consistantly will almost always win over a player who is better at spacing, zoning, mindgames, footsies, etc. You have to be significantly better at the basics to have a chance at winning via N,C,K,P.

3S takes out pretty much all the qualities that made HF/CE fun.

I think Marvel is probably the only game that keeps a lot of old school tactics while being a totally different game. Yes execution matters, but it seems to be more of reflexes, thinking on your feet, blocking correctly, etc.

I think it's a trend in fighting games in general. I mean look at Tekken 3 /TTT compared to Tekken DR / 6. I don't know how jab, jab, jab, jab, wall!, string, is fun.

I can't say much about VF or GG since I don't really play those games.

I really wonder what the people who grew up in the 80s and early 90s think about competitive street fighter today compared to the Ce/HF/ST of their day.

[DS]

I really wonder what the people who grew up in the 80s and early 90s think about competitive street fighter today compared to the Ce/HF/ST of their day.

They're still playing ST.

Oh, and CvS2 is more comparable to A2 in a sense. And RC doesn't win in this game. A-groove, itself, wins. High damaging custom combos that require hella execution. It's NOT easy to win in CvS2. It's quite deep.

[Son Them All]

Worst. Post. Ever.

If I have to read about one more mother fucker who is stuck in the stone age of fighting games bitching about those of us who have moved on, I'm cutting the first person I see playing ST...jesus christ, there are newer better SF's to play get over it.

[KING]

Worst. Post. Ever.

If I have to read about one more mother fucker who is stuck in the stone age of fighting games bitching about those of us who have moved on, I'm cutting the first person I see playing ST...jesus christ, there are newer better SF's to play get over it.

...you mean 3s?


lawl.

[snakedizzle209]

Worst. Post. Ever.

If I have to read about one more mother fucker who is stuck in the stone age of fighting games bitching about those of us who have moved on, I'm cutting the first person I see playing ST...jesus christ, there are newer better SF's to play get over it.

My thoughts exactly.

[Son Them All]

There's that unmistakable old school elitest smell. Stale and musty just how I remember it.

3S is a quality fighter thru and thru obviously, or...it wouldn't be so widely accepted by the scene. Playing super turbo on a serious level these days...well that's like using an abbicus in math class.

[KING]

There's that unmistakable old school elitest smell. Stale and musty just how I remember it.

3S is a quality fighter thru and thru obviously, or...it wouldn't be so widely accepted by the scene. Playing super turbo on a serious level these days...well that's like using an abbicus in math class.

you've never seen jap kids use the abacus, i see.



guess-tapping forward or down into (d.mk xx Super) is obviously tons of fun for you, isn't it?

[Monte]

I agree with this guy, in fact anything after ST sucks. I like to sit in my room wearing cross colours and listening to souls of mischief's "from 93 to infinity" while playing ST and that's how it should be.

[ssjtin]

guess-tapping forward or down into (d.mk xx Super) is obviously tons of fun for you, isn't it?

Just, no...

[Kyokuji]

This topic and all the posts so far need to die in a fire.

[KING]

there are quality fighters out there post-ST;
vf, tekken series, gg, mvc2 still strong...etc.

it's just that 3s dumbs down the whole aspect of footsies to "get out of a jail free" card (aka parrying). even teching out of throws can be option-selected. lawl.


This topic and all the posts so far need to die in a fire.

they pop up every other day; kind of hard to stop a plague, n'est pas?

[Akutabi Gamma]

To thread starter- STFU and play Real Bout 2 & Garou MotW.

[Spirit Juice]

I agree; change is the worst thing ever.

brb beating rocks together for entertainment

[COUM]

Lol @ the mental midgets who think "newer = better" and can't provide any justification for it.

Seeing as he said he said MvC2 is good this clearly isn't about the age of the game, it's about many fighting games losing touch with the concepts that led to deep fighting game strategy in the first place, which just so happens to be many newer games.

But yeah, there are still good games around...

[Hellion]

well that's like using an abbicus in math class.

I know a girl who's 10 who no longer uses an abbicus (she imagines one instead) that'll fucking own everyone here at math.

Fuck 3S

[Superking]

sandwiches

[Henaki]

I'm going to say while something new doesn't mean it's automatically better, people need to get off of older game's and player's dicks.

[Spirit Juice]

You know, back in the day people used to work for free. We gave them free housing and free food, and sometimes we had relations with their women to bless their people with our superior white blood. Man those were the days. Paying people to work sucks; it clearly takes away the efficiency production cost.

[Akutabi Gamma]

You know, back in the day people used to work for free. We gave them free housing and free food, and sometimes we had relations with their women to bless their people with our superior white blood. Man those were the days. Paying people to work sucks; it clearly takes away the efficiency production cost.

Whatever happened to those good old days....:sad:

[m1kekim]

SFA2 had 16 characters - almost all of these characters could be used in high level play. Chun, Gief, Ken, Ryu, Rose, Akuma, Evil Ryu, Charlie, Sakura, Rolento, Sagat, Bison (Dic). Compare that to 3S, SFA3.

ST only had a handful of shit tier characters like T Hawk, Cammy, Fei Long. The rest of the cast was highly match up based.

I actually liked a post 1997 fighter - it was CFE.

[Tantin]

Double correction. This thread is fail.

[Septimus Prime]

Abacus (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abacus). Fuck, you guys are fucking stupid.

What the fuck is an "abbicus"? Learn how to write before banging your face on the keyboard, please.

[jae hoon]

They're still playing ST.

Oh, and CvS2 is more comparable to A2 in a sense. And RC doesn't win in this game. A-groove, itself, wins. High damaging custom combos that require hella execution. It's NOT easy to win in CvS2. It's quite deep.

Even A Groove teams are now getting countered on a fairly regular basis.

[AudioCG]

There's that unmistakable old school elitest smell. Stale and musty just how I remember it.

3S is a quality fighter thru and thru obviously, or...it wouldn't be so widely accepted by the scene. Playing super turbo on a serious level these days...well that's like using an abbicus in math class.


Well, ST is even MORE widley accepted by the scene, and still has MASSIVE tourny play, and is easly one of, if not the most balanced SF game ever made. (HD remix has a good chance of being the most balanced fighting game ever made, period.)

3S has many good qualitys, sadly, the parry system and the tiers are suspect. (Chun/Ken/Yun anyone?) Yet it still remains a mainstay at pretty much every fighting tourny.

Its hard to gauge a games quality by player favoritism alone, MVC2 is a horribly broken game, yet it has developed into a meta game within itself that is tourny worthy, and quite popular.

Strangley enough, well balanced fighting games dont always do well in the "scene" Guilty Gear is an example, as far as fighting games go, GG is quite well balanced (with a really, really deep defensive system in place for every character, yet a system that supports heavy aggression, wild) yet even with this, GG is not payed attention to all that much.

I hear what the OP's point is, and truly, the 90's were the heyday of the 2D fighter, I have high hopes (possibly naive hopes) that with HD remix and SF4 and Blazblue, new KOF this year, that the fighting genre will experience a kind of resurgance in popularity.

Just keep in mind, if it wasnt for SF2, fighting games wouldent be what they are today.

[AudioCG]

Even A Groove teams are now getting countered on a fairly regular basis.

K is the new cool with the kids these days.....

[fr3dsk1]

Playing super turbo on a serious level these days...well that's like using an abbicus in math class.

You cant really dismiss Super Turbo just because it's old.
It'd be like someone replacing your best pair of vintage kicks while you slept and leaving a note saying "having shoes like those these days...."

[9TNine]

Learn to play GG.

-9

[Henaki]

Strangley enough, well balanced fighting games dont always do well in the "scene" Guilty Gear is an example, as far as fighting games go, GG is quite well balanced (with a really, really deep defensive system in place for every character, yet a system that supports heavy aggression, wild) yet even with this, GG is not payed attention to all that much.

except gg is debateably the 5th most popular tournament game now, getting consistantly more entrants than cvs2 and st at all majors except evo.

[Humbag]

wow at this thread... seriously.

[AudioCG]

except gg is debateably the 5th most popular tournament game now, getting consistantly more entrants than cvs2 and st at all majors except evo.

Well, it seems like the GG community just doesnt have the same pull as the SF or MVC communitys, i dont know why. You just dont hear as much buzz around the tournys, GG had a horrible showing at Evo, even though the quality of play was quite high.

The GG community isnt as....... enthusiastic as a whole? (you get what im trying to say?)

IMHO, GG should blow 3S/MVC 2 right out of the water at major tournys, not be the 5th pick, yet 3S/MVC 2 still gets the love. (and I dont even play GG FFS)

I think, ST, CVS2, GG, a balanced KOF game (I am not familiar enough with the KOF series to suggest a paticular game from the franchise) should be the top billing at tournys, but thats just me I guess.

[Son Them All]

Abacus (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abacus). Fuck, you guys are fucking stupid.

What the fuck is an "abbicus"? Learn how to write before banging your face on the keyboard, please.

lol so using a reasonable guess by spelling something phonetically, in the correct context, no less, makes me a neanderthal? Your logic is airtight Sep....:rolleyes:

[Henaki]

lol so using a reasonable guess by spelling something phonetically, in the correct context, no less, makes me a neanderthal? Your logic is airtight Sep....:rolleyes:

yea except you dont actually make any points to any of the relevant arguments against you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

[Sabin]

Id love to close this, but its difficult to navigate on my mobile phone and my internet is down. Lol.

Anyway mikekim, a3 has a pretty large cast playable at high level. You're smoking some good rock there. Crouch cancel infinites actually made a larger amount of the cast viable, even if it doesn't look pretty.

Btw old games are cool, I feel you on that one since I've been playing forever but so are new games. Sure most of the new games are combo heavy and I actually prefer the og ways..but whatever, its still fun.

[Son Them All]

Well I covered my disdain for II in the modern world not too long ago and really didn't feel like getting back into it but....oh well here goes again.

However suspect you can consider a select number of features/quirks you find in 3rd Strike, I would take them over II's game play rather quickly. For every 3 short stocks of Shippu Jinrai Kyuakku that's combo-able from l.mk in 3S you have throws that do OBSCENE albeit highly uneven damage, matches that simply boil down to what I would describe as "tiger tiger tiger tiger tiger! dooken doookun doooku doooken! tiger!!!!! doooken!!!" ad nauseum. In terms of sheer brokeness and ludicrousness in nature, Sagat, Honda and Akuma leave 3S Yun, Ken and Chunners in awe.

My ultimate point? Is that for everything you can point out third strike didn't do right, it flat out made advances in the genre and advances in Street Fighter period. For it to get downed in favor of that damn near ancient Aztek version of SF just seems silly to me.

[ShingoKick]

I think for the most part people miss the competition and hype the 90’s brought to fighting games. At that time fighting games where the mainstream video game fad like Halo or Guitar Hero is today.

Fighting games where a novelty back then because you could fight head to head with a human opponent. Now there are tons of games you can do that with now and the novelty has worn off. So you need to add crazy combos and flashiness to get the general video game consumer to buy fighting games now. It’s sadly the natural progression to make the games more entertaining for the masses and is also sadly what some old school players can’t get into and enjoy.

In the end it’s all a matter of opinion and I say play the games that you find fun.

[AudioCG]

Well I covered my disdain for II in the modern world not too long ago and really didn't feel like getting back into it but....oh well here goes again.

However suspect you can consider a select number of features/quirks you find in 3rd Strike, I would take them over II's game play rather quickly. For every 3 short stocks of Shippu Jinrai Kyuakku that's combo-able from l.mk in 3S you have throws that do OBSCENE albeit highly uneven damage, matches that simply boil down to what I would describe as "tiger tiger tiger tiger tiger! dooken doookun doooku doooken! tiger!!!!! doooken!!!" ad nauseum. In terms of sheer brokeness and ludicrousness in nature, Sagat, Honda and Akuma leave 3S Yun, Ken and Chunners in awe.

My ultimate point? Is that for everything you can point out third strike didn't do right, it flat out made advances in the genre and advances in Street Fighter period. For it to get downed in favor of that damn near ancient Aztek version of SF just seems silly to me.


Well, it obviously hasnt been "downed" by the masses, and as far as SF games go, 3S certainly isnt the worst as far as balance goes, that being said, held up against ST, the tiers and competitiveness (fuck, is that even close to the right spelling?) is not even close (IMHO) I hear what you are saying about advancing the fighting game genre, and no doubt that 3S accomplished that, and dont get me wrong here I am a fan of several newer fighters (I do like 3S, its just not one of my top picks) I just hold CVS 2, or A2 in higher regard then 3S, actually, truth be told I hold 2nd impact in higher regard then 3S, 1 or 2 minor changes to that game would have made it faaaaaaar more balanced then 3S is.

Yes ST has some wierd shit, Kuma (who is banned from tourny play just as Gill is in 3S, i think anyways, is he selectable in the arcade version?) Old Gat is pure cheese, and the only reason Ryu wasnt hado-nausem (like he is in every sf game)in 3S is becase FB game is almost pointless in 3S due to parrys.

If the level of comp in ST wasnt so damn fierce, with new strats and the like rising up every year (DJ maddness at Evo, wild stuff man, next some undiscovered secret with Blanka will surface, lol). It would fall to the side, but I say such progression with such an old game just goes to show how incredible it really was/is.

I think if Sirlin can pull off HD remix right, it could blow 3S right off the map.

[Son Them All]

^^ good points Shingokick, however that goes along with my problem as well.

Gamers need to evolve like the games they play. When I was 7, Comix Zone, Streets of Rage 2 and Shinobi 3 were as good as it got for me. The combined time to beat all of those games is probably only about 5 hours or so and the combined move list for all characters across those 3 games would not reach triple digits. At the time I did not care and still do not for those games. They will forever get a pass and be classic in my eyes. HOWEVER, I play them for nostalgia now and I expect WAY more out of new games than they offered. If they decided to make a new Streets of Rage, for example, nobody is gonna say don't add flashier combos if they're functional, or an ability to let you block or an entirely new mechanic. Street Fighter is just about the only thing I can think of where it's core audience wants everything new to resemble the oldest popular version instead of being something different, and that's ass backwards to me.

[AudioCG]

^^ good points Shingokick, however that goes along with my problem as well.

Gamers need to evolve like the games they play. When I was 7, Comix Zone, Streets of Rage 2 and Shinobi 3 were as good as it got for me. The combined time to beat all of those games is probably only about 5 hours or so and the combined move list for all characters across those 3 games would not reach triple digits. At the time I did not care and still do not for those games. They will forever get a pass and be classic in my eyes. HOWEVER, I play them for nostalgia now and I expect WAY more out of new games than they offered. If they decided to make a new Streets of Rage, for example, nobody is gonna say don't add flashier combos if they're functional, or an ability to let you block or an entirely new mechanic. Street Fighter is just about the only thing I can think of where it's core audience wants everything new to resemble the oldest popular version instead of being something different, and that's ass backwards to me.

A very good point, and I agree with you wholeheartedly, progression is good, deeper gameplay is good.

And while some SRK's are just set in the old school elitism, there are the others (like me I guess) who have seen some faltering steps in some of the newer fighting games, and are a bit jaded towards them. (once again, there have been some greats too, its not all bad by any means)

[arstal]

Well, it seems like the GG community just doesnt have the same pull as the SF or MVC communitys, i dont know why. You just dont hear as much buzz around the tournys, GG had a horrible showing at Evo, even though the quality of play was quite high.

The GG community isnt as....... enthusiastic as a whole? (you get what im trying to say?)

IMHO, GG should blow 3S/MVC 2 right out of the water at major tournys, not be the 5th pick, yet 3S/MVC 2 still gets the love. (and I dont even play GG FFS)

I think, ST, CVS2, GG, a balanced KOF game (I am not familiar enough with the KOF series to suggest a paticular game from the franchise) should be the top billing at tournys, but thats just me I guess.

One word- hivemind.

I'll admit I don't like GG as a game, I just can't get into the chars or chain-heavy games, but even I'll admit the game is quality. It's just hard to go against the hivemind that is the US FG community. I just believe in liking what you like, and screw everything else.

I mean, locally- how many of the people who enter 3s tournies actually like 3s? I've heard a ton of people say they play the game cause it's big, not because they like it. I just see that as being a dumbass.

Id love to close this, but its difficult to navigate on my mobile phone and my internet is down. Lol.

Anyway mikekim, a3 has a pretty large cast playable at high level. You're smoking some good rock there. Crouch cancel infinites actually made a larger amount of the cast viable, even if it doesn't look pretty.

Btw old games are cool, I feel you on that one since I've been playing forever but so are new games. Sure most of the new games are combo heavy and I actually prefer the og ways..but whatever, its still fun.

If it takes infinites to make a character viable- that isn't a good sign for the game's quality- to me it means the game is a broken POS. 3s Had a few good ideas, they just got ruined by a poor system implementation and balance- much like the average SNK game. All I can do is hope SF4 is a good mix of the previous games.

[Hatred Edge]

I think it's a trend in fighting games in general. I mean look at Tekken 3 /TTT compared to Tekken DR / 6. I don't know how jab, jab, jab, jab, wall!, string, is fun.

I can't say much about VF or GG since I don't really play those games.

:rofl::rofl:
I actually liked a post 1997 fighter - it was CFE.

:rofl::rofl:

[COUM]

Here's a sad indication of the state of new-school fighting games:

Arcadia: What differentiates Battle Fantasia from other fighting games?

Takuro Kayumi (Main Programmer): We kept the speed under control. I guess the tempo is different.

Emiko Iwasaki (Director/Character Designer): Well, we wanted the focus to be on anticipation and tachimawari (footsies). Once that was settled, it had to be slower. We'd like players to be able to concentrate on the spacing between them and their opponents.

Kayumi: There's a sense that all the games we [ASW] make are combo games, so we were going against that. We felt like outsiders in our own company. (laughs) Even in internal beta questionnaires we were told things like "these moves don't link" and "it's so simple"... we kept at it, mind you.

Iwasaki: Even the higher ups told us, "make it more like Guilty Gear." (laughs)

Kayumi: "Don't mess with the formula!"

Arcadia: As development progressed and you readied new versions, was there a corresponding change in reactions at the company?

Kayumi: Nah, the bottom line was, "isn't it a combo game?"

Iwasaki: A lot of people like Guilty Gear, after all, so there were a lot of Guilty Gear fans coming to work there. (laughs) We were kind of drifting along.

Kayumi: Guerilla warriors, you know? (laughs)

Iwasaki: But even people who mainly play Guilty Gear can see what we're trying to accomplish when they play this game. The young guys are like... "this is pointless," though. (laughs grimly)

Arcadia: What's the scoop on how the Heat Up System came into being?

Iwasaki: From the start, we were on track to make a pretty conservative game. But then we officially got the word to "make it more like Guilty Gear." (laughs) This was only half a year before we went gold. (laughs) Still, we didn't want to go against our original intent. At that point, the Heat Up system was born. If players were able to bust out flashy combos at any time that would wreck what we were trying to do. So now whether it's using super meter, or reading your opponent and landing a Gachi Drive, you aren't going to land a big (Heat Up) combo unless it's some sort of reward.

Kayumi: You know, people were saying "we want to land combos," so we tried to have it both ways by rewarding good anticipation with combo chances.

They tried to make a game revolving around old-school concepts, and were forced to put in a mechanic to allow big combos. It's pretty clear fighting game developers are so focused on jerking off their hardcore fanbase that they can't see the forest for the trees. STHD and SF4 are probably the only hopes we have of this changing.

[Darkstalker]

lawl so you sing a reese ne ble gas by spell ling sum ting fo ne ti kally in the korrek konteks, no lass, maix me a knee an der thal? Yore logic is air tite Sap....:rolleyes:

I like this version better.

[CrimsonDisaster]

It's just hard to go against the hivemind that is the US FG community.

The US fighting game "community" is a bunch of separate groups in different cities and states with no real reason or ability to meet and play people outside their city/state for pretty much the entire year, minus 1-2 weekends where they maybe get to fly out to something big. The closest thing you'll ever get to a cohesive FG "community" in the US is... SRK, and if you're looking for a cohesive community here, you're more likely to find money matching about the tiers in SF4 and whether or not e-thugs are conspiring to exclude combos from Evo because Evo staff dislikes DAT MADDEN.

Heck, in Austin alone there's pretty much 3 separate fighting game communities for just 2D games- 3S, GG, and Marvel (and I guess T5:DR and SC3, kinda). I have no idea who the Marvel peeps are, and I just know a few of the 3S crowd... and really I barely know a bunch of the GG players.

There simply aren't enough people playing fighting games in the States to just "play what you like" if you are into fighting games for the competitive multiplayer aspect of it... especially in the context of tournaments. Someone may love Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game to death, but who is he going to play it against? His kid brother?
And let's say this guy also plays some other games and loves to compete in tournaments... how does he reconcile his love for SF:TM:TG and the tournament setting?
He doesn't, because nobody is going to spend the time to host a real tournament for SF:TM:TG (maybe someone will host one at an anime convention though). But hey, 3S is big in his area- it's a fighting game, it's a tournament, why not?

[megaultrasuper]

Emotionally, I totally sympathize with the OP.

But it's also weak to think like that.

There are so called "old school" methodical strategy fighters that have come out since 97. They just got passed over in the hype of the new school of games.

From the top of my head.

KOF 98
KOF 2k2
KOF Neowave
Sam Sho 4
Sam Sho 5
Garou
Virtua Fighter 4
Virtua Fighter 5
Hyper Street Fighter II
Capcom vs. SNK I

[COUM]

Garou isn't "old-school" at all really

[arstal]

The US fighting game "community" is a bunch of separate groups in different cities and states with no real reason or ability to meet and play people outside their city/state for pretty much the entire year, minus 1-2 weekends where they maybe get to fly out to something big. The closest thing you'll ever get to a cohesive FG "community" in the US is... SRK, and if you're looking for a cohesive community here, you're more likely to find money matching about the tiers in SF4 and whether or not e-thugs are conspiring to exclude combos from Evo because Evo staff dislikes DAT MADDEN.

There simply aren't enough people playing fighting games in the States to just "play what you like" if you are into fighting games for the competitive multiplayer aspect of it... especially in the context of tournaments. Someone may love Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game to death, but who is he going to play it against? His kid brother?
And let's say this guy also plays some other games and loves to compete in tournaments... how does he reconcile his love for SF:TM:TG and the tournament setting?
He doesn't, because nobody is going to spend the time to host a real tournament for SF:TM:TG (maybe someone will host one at an anime convention though). But hey, 3S is big in his area- it's a fighting game, it's a tournament, why not?

Well, that's why online play is a godsend. In a community of 250 million, you're going to find more people who like what you like then in a population base of 1 million. While online play isn't perfect, you get the same competition. I'm not saying all games deserve a tourney- what I am saying is

a) If you play a game you hate, and can't win money that's worth the time you spend at it, just because it's a tourney fighter- you're being a moron

b) There is a hivemind mentality among mainstream US FG community- (Japan has a hivemind too- look at the example for Battle Fantasia above- the Japanese fanboys may be worse)

c) The combo craze is driving people away from the games we all play. It's newbie-hostile.

[KING]

Well I covered my disdain for II in the modern world not too long ago and really didn't feel like getting back into it but....oh well here goes again.

However suspect you can consider a select number of features/quirks you find in 3rd Strike, I would take them over II's game play rather quickly. For every 3 short stocks of Shippu Jinrai Kyuakku that's combo-able from l.mk in 3S you have throws that do OBSCENE albeit highly uneven damage, matches that simply boil down to what I would describe as "tiger tiger tiger tiger tiger! dooken doookun doooku doooken! tiger!!!!! doooken!!!" ad nauseum. In terms of sheer brokeness and ludicrousness in nature, Sagat, Honda and Akuma leave 3S Yun, Ken and Chunners in awe.

My ultimate point? Is that for everything you can point out third strike didn't do right, it flat out made advances in the genre and advances in Street Fighter period. For it to get downed in favor of that damn near ancient Aztek version of SF just seems silly to me.
wow. that's some ignorant shit right there. lots will agree.


A very good point, and I agree with you wholeheartedly, progression is good, deeper gameplay is good.

And while some SRK's are just set in the old school elitism, there are the others (like me I guess) who have seen some faltering steps in some of the newer fighting games, and are a bit jaded towards them. (once again, there have been some greats too, its not all bad by any means)

I am of that jaded bunch who sees the recent craptacular product to be detrimental to the FGC.

Hopefully with this "renaissance" of sorts, things will change.

Until then, old games and VF5 is just fine for me. =)

I think if Sirlin can pull off HD remix right, it could blow 3S right off the map.

It will. :woot:

[DS]

Worst. Post. Ever.

If I have to read about one more mother fucker who is stuck in the stone age of fighting games bitching about those of us who have moved on, I'm cutting the first person I see playing ST...jesus christ, there are newer better SF's to play get over it.

lol 3S is garbage.

There's that unmistakable old school elitest smell. Stale and musty just how I remember it.

3S is a quality fighter thru and thru obviously, or...it wouldn't be so widely accepted by the scene. Playing super turbo on a serious level these days...well that's like using an abbicus in math class.

lol Did you scrub out a Gamestop ST tourney or some shit? You don't even go to tournaments. You're all theory fighter, kid.

lol so using a reasonable guess by spelling something phonetically, in the correct context, no less, makes me a neanderthal? Your logic is airtight Sep....:rolleyes:

Nigga, you ain't got no comeback on that. He's right. You fucked up the spelling and got tight. I forget that acting smart is PURELY an act on SRK.

[ToyRobotTerror]

sandwiches
Biscuits > Sandwiches

[KING]

lol 3S is garbage.



lol Did you scrub out a Gamestop ST tourney or some shit? You don't even go to tournaments. You're all theory fighter, kid.



Nigga, you ain't got no comeback on that. He's right. You fucked up the spelling and got tight. I forget that acting smart is PURELY an act on SRK.

LOL you just served him a hot plate of TURKEY! :rofl:

[NotGood]

Man, what is the point of trying to change another person's taste in fighting games?

I mean, old-school fighting games are great, but some people like the high-flying action and craziness that comes with "combo games" such as Marvel and Guilty Gear.

Sure Marvel may be "broken", and Guilty Gear being played by players the community as a whole do not like, but the games are extremely fun and hectic. And Guilty Gear even manages to have an extremely balanced engine and unique characters.

Doesn't anybody play a game to have fun with their friends anymore?

[Chipp Zanuff v5]

lol 3S is garbage.






This is the winning post of this thread. Why is this thread still open?:shake:

[felineki]

SF2 bashing makes me cry. :sad:

[COUM]

Man, what is the point of trying to change another person's taste in fighting games?

I mean, old-school fighting games are great, but some people like the high-flying action and craziness that comes with "combo games" such as Marvel and Guilty Gear.

Sure Marvel may be "broken", and Guilty Gear being played by players the community as a whole do not like, but the games are extremely fun and hectic. And Guilty Gear even manages to have an extremely balanced engine and unique characters.

Doesn't anybody play a game to have fun with their friends anymore?

Most old-school fans respect those games, or Marvel at least. It's 3S that such people really have a problem with.

[CarreauOverkill]

You know what pisses me off more than Third Strike? Tennis.

Tennis is shit since the characters have little to no balance and in the high level gameplay everyone uses the same body type. Tennis also is horribly random since each bounce on the ground has a chance to be irregular and bend the flying curve of the ball. WTF IS THAT? There are so many factors you can't affect in tennis. Wind speed? You can't even completely grasp the form of the stage due to the fucking game being 3D and things like Riemannian manifolds and the gravity parabolas throwing your brain off. Not to mention tennis relies too much on hand-eye-coordination and execution and much less on actual strategy. When you've smacked the ball to the opponent's side from the corner, there’s not a lot to do other than to return back to the center where you have the fastest entry to all parts of the playing field. The game sort of collapses at this stage, since you're simply waiting on an attack. If tennis was more like ST, you could at least throw a fucking fireball at them.

Everyone should stop playing tennis and play fucking ST. Tennis is garbage.

[Return of Shiki]

How can people call themselves SF fans when they don't even appreciate SF2???

That's like being a Mario fan who hates SMB3, or a Megaman fan who doesn't like MM2.
The mind boggles.

[The Epidemic]

lol 3S is cool.



lol Did you scrub out a Gamestop ST tourney or some shit? You don't even go to tournaments. You're all theory fighter, kid.



Nigga, you ain't got no comeback on that. He's right. You fucked up the spelling and got tight. I forget that acting smart is PURELY an act on SRK.

gotta love DS:wgrin:

[CarreauOverkill]

How can people call themselves SF fans when they don't even appreciate SF2???

That's like being a Mario fan who hates SMB3, or a Megaman fan who doesn't like MM2.
The mind boggles.

How can you say you love her when you can't even eat her poop?

The chinese KOF fans love '97, most other KOF fans hate it. Wait, they aren't KOF fans if they hate it. Fuuuuck! Paradox.

[jae hoon]

K is the new cool with the kids these days.....

K was the old cool, people just went A Groove happy.

[Dandy J]

You know what pisses me off more than Third Strike? Tennis.

Tennis is shit since the characters have little to no balance and in the high level gameplay everyone uses the same body type. Tennis also is horribly random since each bounce on the ground has a chance to be irregular and bend the flying curve of the ball. WTF IS THAT? There are so many factors you can't affect in tennis. Wind speed? You can't even completely grasp the form of the stage due to the fucking game being 3D and things like Riemannian manifolds and the gravity parabolas throwing your brain off. Not to mention tennis relies too much on hand-eye-coordination and execution and much less on actual strategy. When you've smacked the ball to the opponent's side from the corner, there’s not a lot to do other than to return back to the center where you have the fastest entry to all parts of the playing field. The game sort of collapses at this stage, since you're simply waiting on an attack. If tennis was more like ST, you could at least throw a fucking fireball at them.

Everyone should stop playing tennis and play fucking ST. Tennis is garbage.
sports reference argument lost

[Return of Shiki]

How can you say you love her when you can't even eat her poop?

The chinese KOF fans love '97, most other KOF fans hate it. Wait, they aren't KOF fans if they hate it. Fuuuuck! Paradox.

Are you delibrately trying to make up the most shitty and irrelevant analogies possible?

[AudioCG]

You know what pisses me off more than Third Strike? Tennis.

Tennis is shit since the characters have little to no balance and in the high level gameplay everyone uses the same body type. Tennis also is horribly random since each bounce on the ground has a chance to be irregular and bend the flying curve of the ball. WTF IS THAT? There are so many factors you can't affect in tennis. Wind speed? You can't even completely grasp the form of the stage due to the fucking game being 3D and things like Riemannian manifolds and the gravity parabolas throwing your brain off. Not to mention tennis relies too much on hand-eye-coordination and execution and much less on actual strategy. When you've smacked the ball to the opponent's side from the corner, there’s not a lot to do other than to return back to the center where you have the fastest entry to all parts of the playing field. The game sort of collapses at this stage, since you're simply waiting on an attack. If tennis was more like ST, you could at least throw a fucking fireball at them.

Everyone should stop playing tennis and play fucking ST. Tennis is garbage.

Fireballs would make tennis waaaaaaaaaaay better, add a super meter, and chain combos!

Game, Set, match.

[ParryPerson.]

They're still playing ST.
QFE.

[tataki]

Old school street fighter was never about 20+ hit combos or insane technical execution.

being a 20+ hit combo doesn't make it hard. most characters in GG are wayyyyyyy easier than doing an SPD, and "basic" kof combos.

fighting games are getting easier to play with every passing year.


why can't any topic replies stay on the topic these days in SRK?

[CarreauOverkill]

Are you delibrately trying to make up the most shitty and irrelevant analogies possible?

Yes. Everything in this thread is irrelevant. People play what they play and the people who whine about it should probably concentrate more on playing instead of whining.

Retro game preaching is like being a fucking Jehova. I do not care! Your God is dead to me, I don't care how cool he was back in the day! Get the fuck off my lawn!

Let me live in my sinful combo ways, let my grapplers wear shirts, let my character's disproportionate polygon boobs bounce. Let my sprites be HD and look effeminate and let me roam free in all three dimensions. Let me enjoy the debauchery of more than one form of defense and let me feast on the forbidden fruit of insane execution requirements. Let me enjoy my fucking game and take Ye Holy Fireball Wars back to your cultist kind!

I am a blasphemer and I fucking love it.

[COUM]

being a 20+ hit combo doesn't make it hard. most characters in GG are wayyyyyyy easier than doing an SPD, and "basic" kof combos.

lol this isnt remotely true

[Sabin]

Here's a sad indication of the state of new-school fighting games:



They tried to make a game revolving around old-school concepts, and were forced to put in a mechanic to allow big combos. It's pretty clear fighting game developers are so focused on jerking off their hardcore fanbase that they can't see the forest for the trees. STHD and SF4 are probably the only hopes we have of this changing.

why are you citing a new school game that bombed horribly, and is not really played competively at all? thats a bad example. cite a example from a actual GOOD new school fighter that is played widely instead.

also about the st/sf4 example...i beg to differ...you should check out blitzkampf or something if you want omething that resembles OG gameplay in the slightest. If you're a OG purist, you prob wont like it though, but there ARE games out there that don't necessarily follow the GG/IAD direction of fighters



If it takes infinites to make a character viable- that isn't a good sign for the game's quality- to me it means the game is a broken POS. 3s Had a few good ideas, they just got ruined by a poor system implementation and balance- much like the average SNK game. All I can do is hope SF4 is a good mix of the previous games.

That's fine to have tht opinion, but I wasn't really arguing if the game is good or not (I like A3, actually, btw.) I was arguing more along the lines of the game's balance (a3 is so broken, it's "balanced" in a way even if infinites are retarded, and for this reason, its actually playable competively.) If the low tier chars didn't have infinites, how the heck do you expect them to compete against chars like Akuma (who have 60%+ guard crush combos/unblockable customs,) Dhalsim (who can teleport out of all VC's anyway) and sakura (whos a poking and guardcrushing machine?) it just isnt possible.

Anyway, my point again is that the "old" A3 ha horrible balance (sim dominated almost everyone) compared to the new a3 (where a glitch gives everyone a fighting chance, thats all im saying.)

being a 20+ hit combo doesn't make it hard. most characters in GG are wayyyyyyy easier than doing an SPD, and "basic" kof combos.

fighting games are getting easier to play with every passing year.


why can't any topic replies stay on the topic these days in SRK?


thats easy to say considering youre in touch with SRK...and youve been playing fighters for a decent amount of time, im assuming. newer games just have too many subsystems and system mechanics thatll confuse the random johnny donuts just trying to pick up the game casually. i dont think they have gotten easier at all...sure, execution requirements may have been relaxed...but even that is debatable.

--------

Oh yeah, theres actually some OK posts in here, so itll stay open for now. BTW, just because you dont agree with a topic, doesnt mean you have to spam it up with off topic posts. Why waste SRK's bandwidth posting trollposts? :confused:

[megaultrasuper]

Man, what is the point of trying to change another person's taste in fighting games?

I mean, old-school fighting games are great, but some people like the high-flying action and craziness that comes with "combo games" such as Marvel and Guilty Gear.

Sure Marvel may be "broken", and Guilty Gear being played by players the community as a whole do not like, but the games are extremely fun and hectic. And Guilty Gear even manages to have an extremely balanced engine and unique characters.

Doesn't anybody play a game to have fun with their friends anymore?

I gotta like this post.

Why does a game have to be perfect, or have a large following? One of the reasons I don't play a lot of the newer but less popular games is because I get shit whenever I try to get someone to play it with me. Take Hokuto no Ken for example. It is hard to find people to play that game with because whenever I bring up the topic people just shoot it down because the game is broken, or I have no hope of ever being "competitive" in the game because the competitive environment is so far ahead of where I would start at.

Can't a man play a game in peace anymore?

Not sure where I'm going with this, but I do know somewhere along the line in the last few years that magic spark that made me like this whole thing has gotten dimmer and dimmer.

[tataki]

thats easy to say considering youre in touch with SRK...and youve been playing fighters for a decent amount of time, im assuming. newer games just have too many subsystems and system mechanics thatll confuse the random johnny donuts just trying to pick up the game casually. i dont think they have gotten easier at all...sure, execution requirements may have been relaxed...but even that is debatable.

what is more confusing is having like 150 moves per character in 3D games that most of them shouldn't be used.:looney:

while ST's "simple" gameplay is one of its strong points and part of its charm, it still doesn't make the high level play more accesible to the little billy's out there. just like in GG you need to practice ,you need to play ALOT of matches, you need to get that info from SRK and matchvids...

and maybe, the opposite is true- ST isn't very flashy at high level, in the eyes of the casual (its also an old game with crap graphics his eyes). but than the casual sees THAT AWESOME 5478947 HITS COMBO in a newschool game and he wants to be able to do that shit, and it draws him into getting better at the game.

how many of us liked the versus games so much when we were young? it draws people into the genre!
"I came for the combos, and stayed for the strategy"

[arstal]

why are you citing a new school game that bombed horribly, and is not really played competively at all? thats a bad example. cite a example from a actual GOOD new school fighter that is played widely instead.

also about the st/sf4 example...i beg to differ...you should check out blitzkampf or something if you want omething that resembles OG gameplay in the slightest. If you're a OG purist, you prob wont like it though, but there ARE games out there that don't necessarily follow the GG/IAD direction of fighters



That's fine to have tht opinion, but I wasn't really arguing if the game is good or not (I like A3, actually, btw.) I was arguing more along the lines of the game's balance (a3 is so broken, it's "balanced" in a way even if infinites are retarded, and for this reason, its actually playable competively.) If the low tier chars didn't have infinites, how the heck do you expect them to compete against chars like Akuma (who have 60%+ guard crush combos/unblockable customs,) Dhalsim (who can teleport out of all VC's anyway) and sakura (whos a poking and guardcrushing machine?) it just isnt possible.

Anyway, my point again is that the "old" A3 ha horrible balance (sim dominated almost everyone) compared to the new a3 (where a glitch gives everyone a fighting chance, thats all im saying.)




thats easy to say considering youre in touch with SRK...and youve been playing fighters for a decent amount of time, im assuming. newer games just have too many subsystems and system mechanics thatll confuse the random johnny donuts just trying to pick up the game casually. i dont think they have gotten easier at all...sure, execution requirements may have been relaxed...but even that is debatable.


Well, I liked Blitzkampf some, but not enough to get into it. Something just felt kinda off with it to me, mostly the lack of normals. I can't stand most dojin games due to only 3 attack buttons (yet I play VF- go figure)

The issues with games that are that broke is

1) If it's easy, the game becomes laughable (Think Samsho 3 and its infinites)

2) If it's hard (like CC's) or requires practice specifically for execution, it
becomes a hurdle that knocks down some players- making them run away from the game, and reduces the game down to that tactic at high level anyways.

I know I tend to have a high discount rate for my time, and I get negative utility from practicing execution, so games that require spend to spend 10-20 hrs to get the basic combos down aren't worth it to me. If GG didn't do that, I'd probably be playing that as my main game. Instead, I ignore it completely. It's why I'm scared to play Arcana Heart- I think the combos would be even harder- plus the char I would use exclusively seems even more complicated. (But Yuki/Examu knows how to make a good game)

As for the argument how should low tiers compete against that? They shouldn't have to compete against that in the first place, since it's shitty design.

As for Battle Fantasia- it's a realistic possibility the game was rushed due to the hiveminds at Arc who couldn't imagine something that wasn't a GG-clone selling in Japan 2d fighter market. The sad thing is that they may be right.

[Son Them All]

lol 3S is garbage.
You, yo momma, and the inbred litter of bastards the two of you are trying to raise are all garbage. 3S, however, is not.


lol Did you scrub out a Gamestop ST tourney or some shit? You don't even go to tournaments. You're all theory fighter, kid.
There are plenty of people on this site that know and have played me at tournaments. Of course, you don't take silly shit like facts and reason into consideration when you make your retarded ass posts. I'm not sure if you think you're clever or what but you're dead wrong about that, so eat a dick sandwhich.


Nigga, you ain't got no comeback on that. He's right. You fucked up the spelling and got tight. I forget that acting smart is PURELY an act on SRK.
So basically, a word I never use because I have no reason to use it in normal conversations results in me not being able to spell the word. WHAT A FUCKIN SHOCKER! Pointin that out was retarded on Sep's part, but you're 100x dumber for attempting to back that shit up. I'll say this as plainly as I can. Stop hating you dumb bitch, I'm not one of these fags you can run through with your bullshit wannabe AW routine so don't take it there.

[KING]

Son Them All got son'ed. lmao.

juvenile insults don't really constitute a good reply on flames. kid, you need to take some notes on flaming from GD.

[DS]

You, yo momma, and the inbred litter of bastards the two of you are trying to raise are all garbage. 3S, however, is not.

That wasn't very clever at all. 3S is still hot garbage.


There are plenty of people on this site that know and have played me at tournaments. Of course, you don't take silly shit like facts and reason into consideration when you make your retarded ass posts. I'm not sure if you think you're clever or what but you're dead wrong about that, so eat a dick sandwhich.

Neither do you. Have you ever read the shit you post about 3S? You make this game sound like it's God's gift or some shit. The only gift God graced upon you was letting your dad shoot out a nut into your mom's vagina. Bitch should have parried that hit because that's all parrying would have been good for in this world. What? You don't like it when people put down 3S? You mad or something? So stop putting down ST.


So basically, a word I never use because I have no reason to use it in normal conversations results in me not being able to spell the word. WHAT A FUCKIN SHOCKER! Pointin that out was retarded on Sep's part, but you're 100x dumber for attempting to back that shit up. I'll say this as plainly as I can. Stop hating you dumb bitch, I'm not one of these fags you can run through with your bullshit wannabe AW routine so don't take it there.

Who the fuck is bringing up AW? Why you ridin' his coat tails right now? Why is the flavor of his cock still brushing along the gums of your mouth? Apparently you don't know me because I've been on this site WAY longer than Adam. Just because his cock managed to fit in your mouth, doesn't mean you can group me with him. You must be the dumbest motherfucker to think that shit up. You're talking about being clever, and yet you group me in with Adam when I'm not even looking to steal his FORUM shine.

3S is shit. Just like you. Just like your posts. And just like the descendants you're gonna bring to this world in the near future.

[DevilJin 01]

Why the fuck does every fighting game related thread that has anything to do with SF turn into a SF2 vs. SF3 war 20 posts in? Like all anyone wants to do these days is ressurrect the parry thread. Some people just don't like SF3. That's great and they'll probably still end up having to play it at some point cuz everyone else does. Do we really need to convince people which SF is better? I think I liked it better when people just played what they liked and tried to perform their best in the game that they liked. Yet...it's SRK so I guess it's more fun to tell people what's really worth playing.

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

Learn to play GG.

-9

you are very wise sir :china:

[Saotome Kaneda]

wtf is this thread and why is it still going