Will interpolated frames be an issue in SF4?

[Archer V2.0]

Interpolation is pretty much what gives the game it's "smooth" feel. Like when Ryu does a hadoken, you can see it come out smoothly, and you can see his whole body move to the motion of doing the fireball... The problem is, while it looks pretty, it adds these frames that are unavoidable, which in turn slows down the entire original feeling of Street Fighter.

I know that this game intends to be different from the other SF games, but will the interpolated frames be an issue with us oldschool gamers? Will we jump into SF4 and know what we're doing, or will we have to adapt to the graphics and movement first before learning the new gameplay elements?

Things that interpolation can affect are simple yet essential things like jump in timings (crossovers, etc), buffering, cancling, and just simple timings that we have gotten into our bones, and that have not changed over the past 20 or so years in the 2D genre of games.

I'm not saying it'll be a big problem; we can always relearn... But will we have to?

[inkblot]

Short answer: no.

[Archer V2.0]

Short answer: no.

Short question: Why not?

nvm, i'll just take your word for it.

[Dander]

Short answer: no.

gimme the long answer.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

The only thing I don't like about SFIV is the jumps, but then again every 3d fighter seems to have trouble with this.

[Dander]

The only thing I don't like about SFIV is the jumps, but then again every 3d fighter seems to have trouble with this.

then again this is a 2d fighter with 3d sprites.

the only thing I think I do like about this game is the voices.

[jabhadouken]

At least you both like the voices. :rofl:

But yeah, Pablo... floaty jumps in SF are just plain wrong.

But I don't think they're all that bad in SF4.

Meaning they don't seem too floaty to me.

[inkblot]

gimme the long answer.

Long answer: no way.

[rogueyoshi]

who complains about 3s frame data?

[Archer V2.0]

It's not the frame data I'm talking about. You obviously don't understand my concerns.

[fallot]

I thought this was one of the earliest concerns; alleviated when we saw the first few vids :/

[Hellion]

it does not look like a problem. The jumps hardly look floaty. If anything, they all look the SAME.
The jabs with characters look fast, almost choppy. I can't see shoto or guile crouching jabs extend/retract like I would in other 3d fighters

[deadfrog]

Long answer: interpolated frames will not matter because they are created on-the-fly as filler between key frames only for the allotted amount of time they are given.

Things look fine based on all footage I've seen, so we shouldn't have any worries.

(I'm making up these numbers for the sake of example so don't tell me I'm all crazy.) In Tekken/VF/DOA, a jab might have 3 key-frames with a total time-length designation of 15 frames... that would mean there are 7 fill-in frames generated between each key-frame.

In SF4, they could take those same 3 key-frames, but make the total length of the jab only 5 frames or even just 3. There would be a higher key-frame to fill-time ratio to still make it animate well to the eyes, but it doesn't change the way it works at all.

... I think. :rofl:

[Kamui]

You might be over thinking things. Interpolation just fills in movement gaps and adds a ton of frames between key frames. The amount of frames added can be adjusted. Before there were less differentiated frames between keys, so the time between keys was just spent holding on one image. Attacks can come out as fast as they did in older SF games, it might just look wonky.

Chances are the game will run slightly slower than previous SF games simply because they want things to look natural with all of the additional frames being used. The difference in timing though won't be much different than the speed changes between SSF2T and 3rd Strike, which was also a case of additional frames slowing things down. I doubt it will affect things like jumps since they can still be designated to leave the ground at the same time. There doesn't appear to be much of a kneeling animation before and after jumps, and I don't think that will change.

It's not the frame data I'm talking about. You obviously don't understand my concerns.

[Sakura.Densetsu]

I have been worrying about Frame Interpolation as well. It will effect Cancelling/2 in 1's greatly. These are key to SF game play.

In 2D games, cancelling an animation complet to do another completely different animation does not generally cause any overly bad animation issues. It looks more natural.

Cancelling a Ducking Fierce into a Hadouken animation can be done with interpolated frames easily and actually look better for the effort. The problem will arise when we get crucial cancels which cannot be easilly animated. The most common example is the Jump in attack into a ground attack. The entire landing animation is removed and the character will be facing the other direction.

Which leads to the biggest offender. In 2d games, characters change facing in 0 frames. In 3d games, they have full turn around animation. This will not work in a SF style of game, because it will make cross overs and other ariel tactics way overpowered.

Notice how Zangiefs Suplex has a new animation where he slips behind his oponent before doing the Suplex, yet in all the 2D SF games Suplex throws completely skip this animation. In a 2D game this looks fine, but because in 3D it looks like trash they had to add the animation. On a throw, this is less of a big deal than on a Strike maneuver or on the ability to change facing since it has no actual impact on gameplay.

Notice how in the EX series Zangief only does the Suplex when doing his Super. The less often the maneuver appears in play, the less likely it will graphically effect the game. Part of the reason EX (as much as I love it) was not as popular is that is had no Interpolation and used normal 2D animation cancelling, making it often look clumsy and choppy. Rival Schools worked because all the characters and the gameplay was completely new, therefore if certain 2 in 1's weren't available in favour of better looking animation it did not upset anyone.

This is the main reason why 3D games play so differently than 2D games. Each combo is preprogrammed with very little cancelling. 2D games allow for comboes and chains on the fly where as 3D games require much larger move-sets and preset comboes in order to give the same degree of depth a 2D game can muster with only a handful of moves.

The new systems can handle what is needed for 2D gameplay to still look nice in a 3D. The KOF 3D games have shown us this. That finally a succesful 2D game can transition to 3D with-out losing anything, gain from the transition, and still feel pretty much the same. My only beef with KOF in 3D is the excessive OTG juggling. It otherwise plays like 2D KOF with some 3D preset Comboes added in.

After seeing the gameplay vids and after playing KOF, I am much less worried about how the transition to 3D animation will effect the overall feel of the game. Instead I am happy because it opens up new realms of possibilities for move animations previously too difficult in a 2D game. Bog example ; Grapples.

Many Grapple techniques do not translate well into a 2D game, because they would require giving each character unique animation frames just for that one grapple. Look at how amazing the Spinning Piledriver looks in 3D. I look forward to moves along the lines of Arm Drags, Sharp Shooters, Joint Breaking, etc. If they make a new character down the line, they do not need to make new frames for every single character just to give that new character a new and unique throw technique. If El Muerte has a Figure Four Leglock, they do not need to draw leglock animation for every character. Just make an animation once and give it to every character.

So; From what I see, Interpolation does nt seem to be negatively effecting the game, and if we do wind up with a few 2 in 1's which have slightly jerky animation then I am happy because they trade in gives us beautifully realistic and unique grapples.

Though I do worry somewhat for Kara-Cancelling and similar.

[XEN MASTER MARK]

Animation systems are usually driven by a timer, such that the opening frames and closing frames in an animation will always be the same length of time apart. Tweened (in-between) frames don't add to this duration, so your Hadoken will always take the same amount of time to play out. Think of tweened frames as the game's way of killing time, between the start and end frames :tup:

Where games generate tweened frames, it's usually because a target platform (mostly the PC) may be capable of rendering x number of frames per second on one machine and 10 times that number on another (faster) machine. Artists animate their models for the lowest common hardware running at 10 distinct frames per second. A much faster machine can interpolate between those frames to give a much more fluid looking 100 distinct frames.

That said, SF4 is implemented on fixed hardware platforms (read; consoles). The game will therefore be tuned extensively to maintain an exact frame-rate on those platforms. Given this constant framerate, Capcom could pose characters in a unique position for every frame that is presented and do away with tweening altogether. Their artists would prefer this as it gives them complete control over the way their characters move.

Personally, I think the animation system in SF4 is shamelessly unambitious. This is exactly the kind of genre where a company could break new ground and really push the envelope with animation technology. It's a squandered opportunity.

[Gaijinblaze]

I'm not much of an animation buff, in fact I didn't know what interpolated frames were before reading this, but one thing I dislike about SF4's animation so far is that each movement is too consistent in speed throughout its animation. For example, in real life or in the 2D games, when you do a punch you speed up during extension before contact to increase force, and your arm will likely return more slowly than that. In SF4 everything is so smooth that it looks unnatural and weak. Look at a hadouken or tiger shot animation compared to the older games to see what I mean, or any move really.

I wouldn't consider it a minor gripe either, since cartoony games like SF have always relied on those exaggerated dynamics.

[Yurinka]

Interpolation is pretty much what gives the game it's "smooth" feel. Like when Ryu does a hadoken, you can see it come out smoothly, and you can see his whole body move to the motion of doing the fireball... The problem is, while it looks pretty, it adds these frames that are unavoidable, which in turn slows down the entire original feeling of Street Fighter.

I know that this game intends to be different from the other SF games, but will the interpolated frames be an issue with us oldschool gamers? Will we jump into SF4 and know what we're doing, or will we have to adapt to the graphics and movement first before learning the new gameplay elements?

Things that interpolation can affect are simple yet essential things like jump in timings (crossovers, etc), buffering, cancling, and just simple timings that we have gotten into our bones, and that have not changed over the past 20 or so years in the 2D genre of games.

I'm not saying it'll be a big problem; we can always relearn... But will we have to?

No problem for me. I don't want animations with 3 frames all my life.