Is Sonic hot garbage?

[NeoBlood]

So yeah Ive been trying to use him but I can barely pull a win out of my ass. Sure hes quick but trying to stop his momentum sometimes can be a pain. Ive actually rolled offstage quite a few times trying to attack someone. And thats another thing It seems like none of his attacks are really special. Most of the time is like big whoop i rolled into this guy for 8 percent damage, or the fact that none of his direction+A attacks have any decent range. On top of all that, I assume hes considered a light character so im flying off the stage with 80 to 120 percent (mostly getting hit by Ike because thats who my friend plays).

So is Sonic hot garbage?

[Shinto]

Not really, I just think he has no good knockout moves like the other characters.

[lamewadd]

Are you playing with items? You should be. And as such, you should be TURTLING. Grab a sword, smack him, then run like hell. Throw stuff at him. Run for the smash balls and assist trophies and pokeballs.

He's really fast! You shouldn't be using that speed to get yourself killed faster than if you were using Mario.

[EmblemLord]

He is probably mid tier.

Honestly if he had maybe one more kill move and his smashes were faster, he would be high tier.

[Jac]

Sonic is really good at building damage but has a very hard time killing....his back airs and forward smash is what i used to kill but the forward smash takes forever to land :rolleyes:

[Shade]

Sonic is solid. And the fastest guy in the game it seems (ZSS is up there, too). Not having any strong knock out moves doesn't mean much, when the average knock out is 100%. Seriously, it's kind of hard to knock people out before that on most stages.

[EmblemLord]

Average knockout is more like 150ish.

I'm not gonna front about Sonic.

He isn't good.

But he isn't bad either.

He's ok.

*shrug.

[Rioting Soul]

Strongly feel that Sonic is a motherfuckin beast. I hope I'm wrong though because I'm having a hard time beating him.

[ArcadeFire]

Not really, I just think he has no good knockout moves like the other characters.

QFT. It's a BITCH to kill people with him. F-Smash seems alright but that's about it =/

[JoeMasters]

I never have trouble killing with him really. I think hes a fuckin beast and has maad potential. His up+B spring is too good, and his combo potential is stunning. Definitley one of my favorite/best characters.

[Shinto]

I say this is the Official Sonic thread and the title sticks...

[NeoBlood]

Wow, official Sonic thread huh? Im honored.

Ill admit there are some good times to be had with Sonic though, as someone posted earlier his up+B is great for getting places and his air back+A (single spinning kick) is probably the thing i knock people out with the most. Not to mention his Super Sonic mode which is ungodly good if you can control it well. I guess I was really just expecting more of him since he was probably the biggest hype builder of the game for me.

One interesting thing I did with him was me and someone else were knocked off the stage and because the other person was below me when I did the spring, the spring fell on them and knocked them away a little bit.

As far as combos, i dont really see combos in SSBB, I just see stuff that works sometimes, like I do a launching attack and jump and do his "rising tackle" as Ive come to call it since the final hit of that can send opponents pretty high up under the right conditions.

[Septimus Prime]

Yeah, you can hit people with the spring. If you do the spring from the ground, it'll actually stay there and act as a spring for 3 jumps or so. I haven't found any useful application for that yet.

Also, a quick way to stop from a full run (offline only) is to hold down and tap X, A as if you're doing a kara-throw in 3S. Sonic will do his dive kick right off the ground, and it'll also hit whatever's in front of him relatively hard (hard for Sonic, at least).

[Sonichuman]

....I am quite annoyed that that you called this the official sonic thread...mostly because of the name...>(....I'LL SHOW YOU ALL!!!

[NeoBlood]

Well, its not technically saying he IS hot garbage, just illicitly implying that he is. Like on the news when something blows up somewhere and the ticker at the bottom reads "Is it TERRORISIM?" just to get people to keep watching to find out that it was just some random explosion.

[pizzacat83]

Sonic kicks ass, enough so to flirt with being a top tier character. Super Sonic is one of the better final smashes in the game and he's a very evasive character, so he's a monster with hit-and-run tactics. His lack of a good killer move is his only real weakness, similar to Meta Knight, but items can help overcome that. Since Smash is a game that any retard can play well (button mash and do well), people tend to think Sonic sucks more than a freshman female at a frat party because Sonic is the hardest character in the game to play.

[skisonic]

he is not good.

you are all nuts.

[Zero-SR388]

He's not bad.
He's just weak.
He needs Bowser to be at at least 200% for a KO.

But I've seen people get about five kills off of his final smash, and It's easy to get the smashball beacause he is so fast.

The only problems is his lack of effective smash attacks and his speed is hard to control.

Once you can control him he should be pretty decent, but he's still only around mid-tier.

[Sonichuman]

He's not bad.
He's just weak.
He needs Bowser to be at at least 200% for a KO.

But I've seen people get about five kills off of his final smash, and It's easy to get the smashball beacause he is so fast.

The only problems is his lack of effective smash attacks and his speed is hard to control.

Once you can control him he should be pretty decent, but he's still only around mid-tier.

I don't care if bowser needs to be at 200%. I'm still all over the place and there isn't much that the fat king can do about it.

[Zero-SR388]

I don't care if bowser needs to be at 200%. I'm still all over the place and there isn't much that the fat king can do about it.

Just stating a fact...

[Rekano]

I don't care if bowser needs to be at 200%. I'm still all over the place and there isn't much that the fat king can do about it.

Bowser's aerials, Side B, and I disagree. :D

[KWASIA]

can someone explain to me the differences between his side b and up b... though i toyed with i can tell there are some difference but it's confusing... also has anyone found any use for these moves...

[Tam]

spin dash into them and keep 'em in the air
force 'em on the spring

and fuck them up that way!!

most of his kill moves have to be preemptive so don't let them fall to the ground WHATSOEVER

he's got that spring for a good reason and why it can stay on the floor should be part of his gameplan

REAL TALK!!

[Sonichuman]

Bowser's aerials, Side B, and I disagree. :D

I need to play a bowser...how about it son!?

[Tigerboi]

For the record, his up tilt is REALLY good for KOs. So is uair.

f-smash, uair, bair, u-tilt.


His only ko moves it seems. He's defiantly not hot garbage, but not that great either.

[Rekano]

I need to play a bowser...how about it son!?

Yessir. Just gotta catch you on when Im home from work.

[Sonichuman]

Yessir. Just gotta catch you on when Im home from work.

I've seen you on but everytime I see you it always says...'BRRRRRRRRRAWWWWLLINNNNNNN!!!' *says it just like 'Ballin'*. I definitely wanna see how your bowser is.

[Deebo 757]

I agree, Sonic is a hot mess. You agree with me right sonichuman? LOL!!^_^

[HolyOrderChipp]

I really hate how his running A is frame disadvantage on HIT. Your opponent recovers before you do. It's damn annoying.

[EmblemLord]

You have to spam it and sapce it so that when it hits you are away from them.

So don't use it when they are cmaping near the edge.

Sucks cuz it limits Sonic's approach. His dash attack is one of his best moves by far.

Also ALOT of shit in Brawl is frame disadvantage on hit.

That's just something we are all gonna have to deal with.

[Sonichuman]

I agree, Sonic is a hot mess. You agree with me right sonichuman? LOL!!^_^

lmfao...I like how you actually have deebo from friday as your avatar....and you keeeep on talkin your mess from way down there...just wait till you get up here! You're gonna have your fill of him till you get sick!

I really hate how his running A is frame disadvantage on HIT. Your opponent recovers before you do. It's damn annoying.

O.o...the heck you talking about? I've had no problems with sonics running A in fact for him I feel that's the most spammable thing you can do considering if you're doing it correctly he recovers behind the person



Sucks cuz it limits Sonic's approach. His dash attack is one of his best moves by far.



as far as limiting his approach..his running a does seem to be his best but i don't think it's his only one...i've been working on others to mix things up by using his speed but it's hard to demonstrate half the time with lag online...:(....

also from what i've played...I think sonic will be having the hardest time against falco and pit from what I've played so far...Emblem you demonstrated that too me whenever i started to spin you just shot me and put a stop to it...lol. Pit can use an arrow from what i've played of my friend's pit...but if you roll and let go at the right time sonic will just bust through it...but I haven't seen it work on falco's laser yet. It probably still won't work though because falco has a higher rate of fire than pit.

where the hell is zan at?

[Septimus Prime]

I have a lot of trouble with Lucas. His PK Fire stops EVERYTHING, and he can just bat you out of all your ball attacks, since he has a disjointed hitbox.

[Tigerboi]

Sonic's B, side b, and down b are ass. They have mediocre priority and don't KO for shit.

PK fire has some serious lag. It's best that you bait it out and react. Try going in with n-air and dashing up smashing in.

Not sure if it will work, but that's what I would try.

[Septimus Prime]

Well, it's not really the PK Fire that's the problem. It's the bat. The fire just zones and pressures you into running up, at which time you'll get batted.

[Tigerboi]

Yeah, I'd try entering from the air with fair and n-air.

[Septimus Prime]

My current strat is to just lose and switch to Snake (who is arguably my "main"), then bomb his face.

It's been working.

[wafflemonkey]

Sonic is not hot garbage or hot mess. Hes a pretty decent character. People see things like no k.o. ability and poke range and think hes bad. Try stutter stepping his f-smash. If you don't know what it is i'll give a brief description. C-sticks by default does smash. tap it foward for a f-smash. now stutter stepping is when u enter a backward step right before hitting f-smash with the c-stick. It increases your range enough to beat a marth foward smash, despite his disjointed hitbox. I did not discover/find/invent/name this technique.

Anyone who wants to bag on a character should at least know what they can do before they turn their auto-trashtalk on =/.

with that said sonic is still nowhere near top-tier, but hes not low. i agree with the mid tier statement (although it is a little early to go into tiers, what with new advanced techniques being found out daily.)

[Tigerboi]

lol, that name makes no sense. That's cool though. have to try it.

[Sonichuman]

Sonic's B, side b, and down b are ass. They have mediocre priority and don't KO for shit.

PK fire has some serious lag. It's best that you bait it out and react. Try going in with n-air and dashing up smashing in.

Not sure if it will work, but that's what I would try.

actually I think you maybe able to cancel some of the charge up time on sonic's homing attack if you press b again....I don't know if anyone has said anything on that. As for his side b and down b being ass...I have to disagree...it all depends on how you use it. If you're using these from a far ass distance away where they know it's coming where the person can spam laser and or pk fire at you then yess it's gonna be ass if they know how to stop you. Have you ever tried following up a side throw with one of the dashes? Also I've noticed that depending upon where you are in the spin depends on the priority. Example being when I was fighting Zan's Sonic and he was spinning towards me from one of the b moves I waited until the last second and let go completely beating out his...I haven't been able to test it out with any other attacks from anyone else besides Pit's Arrow...If you do it correctly that ball will eat right through it.

[wafflemonkey]

for his b attack, you have to hit b twice while charging ( so b to start, then b,b quickly). Neutral b is also a good gimp tool if you time it rite. With his side b, if you do it before you use your second jump (i.e. after you get knocked side of the stage) you can double jump after, then up b. A very good situational recovery move, and gives great horizontal recovery. Not sure about invincibility frames on any of his specials though.

[The MC Clusky]

Sonic can use his Up B to reach the top of the screen and KO at very low percents with Up air. I saw someone kill Marth at 40 percent on Corneria (very short ceiling) and Snake at 100 percent on Smashville (fairly high ceiling).

Side B and Down B can be jump canceled into aerial combos at any point, to rack up good damage.

He is limited nonetheless when it comes to killing moves, but he shouldn't be used against the heavyweights. He's better against fast characters that are lighter.

[Sonichuman]

He is limited nonetheless when it comes to killing moves, but he shouldn't be used against the heavyweights. He's better against fast characters that are lighter.

no no no...Sonic has problems with people with shit loads of priority and people who are slow with some fast moves that can take out light people quickly...Metaknight and Ike are touch as shit to fight but so far I've found sonic could probably run up in bowser's grill all day.

So far the only thing I can think of to attack metaknight without being shanked to death all the time is to mix in a fast homing attack...especially if he's spamming his regular attack all day...but trying to get around that caped ball of priority is a bitch..especially if they like to use their down smash a lot. If anyone has any better ideas of approaching metaknight please feel free to step in lol. I'm interested to hear strategies.

Also If you're going to use homing attack and you want the homing attack to come out faster...mash on the special attack button...now that i've figured that out it feels a bit more useful

[El Ninja]

Face it, Brandon, your man is lukewarm garbage at his very best.

Deebo, as for you, stay outta Richmond or I'll have my Olimar punk Kirby for his chain.

[EmblemLord]

I been playing Sonic more and he isn't good.

He just isn't.

Brawl isn't a combo game. It's all about having fast high priority moves that are spammable and do decent damage.

Sonic doesn't really have that. You also need a good approach move that has little lag and has good priority and zoning tools.

Sonics moves have little priority and when clanks with other attacks he tends to be at a disadvantage.

He can only be played in an aggro rushdown manner and Brawl doesn't reward aggression at all. It rewards defensive play with powerful spacing moves.

Sonic doesn't have that.

And his smashes suck. lol.

Also Sonichuman you asked why Wario can stomp Sonic.

Well Wario is just better then him. Better tilts and better smashes overall.

And move priority and wario can DI the hell outta his aerials. He can just do fade away Fairs all day and keep Sonic out.

[Sonichuman]

Face it, Brandon, your man is lukewarm garbage at his very best.

Deebo, as for you, stay outta Richmond or I'll have my Olimar punk Kirby for his chain.

oh wow...You're talkin smack on here too now? Coming out of the closet finally eh?.....and I mean that in BOTH ways. =D We don't need to go into how a certain someone gets frustrated over the game to begin with whenever the hedgehog is all over Olimar.


Also Sonichuman you asked why Wario can stomp Sonic.

Well Wario is just better then him. Better tilts and better smashes overall.

And move priority and wario can DI the hell outta his aerials. He can just do fade away Fairs all day and keep Sonic out.

His smashes sucking...yeah I can somehow agree with...but I deal with it anyway

And I'm hard headed....so you're going to have to SHOW me...like you did with Ike and Metaknight...I'm sure you wouldn't mind that would you?

[EmblemLord]

I can't show you.

I hate using wierd charaters.

lol. It's a pet peeve of mine.

[Sonichuman]

I can't show you.

I hate using wierd charaters.

lol. It's a pet peeve of mine.

oh come onnnn! I need the experience! If it really is a bad match up I'm gonna have to know at least how to give wario hell!

[EmblemLord]

But...But

Wario is so...UGLY!!!

UGH!!!!!

*Gazes upon the beauty of Pit, Ike, and Marth.

[Sonichuman]

But...But

Wario is so...UGLY!!!

UGH!!!!!

*Gazes upon the beauty of Pit, Ike, and Marth.

SO!? You know how I am...if you're gonna make a claim about something that has to do with the hedgehog I gotta see it with my own eyes! Probably gonna have to wait till I get a new modem in this place cause...the current one is kinda ass and I've been stealing someone elses wireless whenever i'm at college...>.>..<.<...i mean it runs decent some times but nowhere near as good as when we had those matches this weekend when I was at my hose and you kicked my ass lol.

[Deebo 757]

Face it, Brandon, your man is lukewarm garbage at his very best.

Deebo, as for you, stay outta Richmond or I'll have my Olimar punk Kirby for his chain.

Lol Olimar? That lil bitch from pikmin? Lmao...you know he cant see kirby son. All he's gonna do is hop is bitch ass back in the rocket ship and fly the fuck home. real talk...LOL!

[Corner-Trap]

Sonic is kinda weird because his movement speed is really fast but his overall attack speed is a bit slow when compared to the other characters. Not only are his attacks a bit slow but they don't do much damage or knockback. At this point I consider him low tier.

[NeoBlood]

Found out his homing attack is pretty good for sudden deaths unless the other person has parry attacks

[Sonichuman]

Sonic is kinda weird because his movement speed is really fast but his overall attack speed is a bit slow when compared to the other characters. Not only are his attacks a bit slow but they don't do much damage or knockback. At this point I consider him low tier.

...LOW TIER!?....At this point and time I'll accept middle tier until I can un prove it other wise...but low tier I cannot accept >(.

[EmblemLord]

Mid tier at best.

Most likely low tier.

[Corner-Trap]

...LOW TIER!?....At this point and time I'll accept middle tier until I can un prove it other wise...but low tier I cannot accept >(.

I just don't see anything sonic has to put him above low tier. His attacks are slow with low priority, damage, and knockback. He doesn't have much in the way of combos so he can't rack up damage well, and his KO potential is pretty mediocre. He isn't great at edgeguarding since he doesn't have any quick, long reaching attacks with good priority, and knockback that he can spam from on of the stage to keep the opponent out, or a good move to hit opponents on the ledge, he can't even jump off the stage and continue to combo without risk of killing himself. His recovery is also pretty average, and his UpB can't sweetspot ledges. So honestly, I can't even see Sonic being at mid tier.

[Tigerboi]

I just don't see anything sonic has to put him above low tier. His attacks are slow with low priority, damage, and knockback. He doesn't have much in the way of combos so he can't rack up damage well, and his KO potential is pretty mediocre. He isn't great at edgeguarding since he doesn't have any quick, long reaching attacks with good priority, and knockback that he can spam from on of the stage to keep the opponent out, or a good move to hit opponents on the ledge, he can't even jump off the stage and continue to combo without risk of killing himself. His recovery is also pretty average, and his UpB can't sweetspot ledges. So honestly, I can't even see Sonic being at mid tier.

The best characters in the previous games usually didn't have too much in the reach and priority department.

His up b doesn't need to sweet spot edges because you can do attacks out of it. Stutter stepping increases the range of his foward smash to a distance higher than Marth's.

His bair works alot like a space animal bair. (I.E., a good edge guard move with big knock back) It also can be easily short hopped.


Up tilt is great for combos and KOs. Dash attack is a good combo starter...


Down tilt is really good, works like Lucas'.


Yeah, uh, dont agree at all. Especially with the statement on his attacks being slow. I actually find that absurd. His only moves that really come out slow are his froward smash (but it fucking hurts) and his dair. I'd say he's at LEAST mid tier material.

[lamewadd]

Mid tier at best.

Most likely low tier....with items off

Fixed.

Sonic can rush down those hammers like nothing.

[AlphaDragoon02]

Mid tier at best.

Most likely low tier.

Further proof that the SWF people going "Well Brawl is enough like Melee to compare them directly!!!" are flat out wrong. A character as fast as Sonic is in Melee would've been godlike.

[Tigerboi]

lol shiek.

[EmblemLord]

Sonic with items on is ok.

But Metaknight or Marth with items is just....

It should be illegal ok?

That's how disgusting it is.

Also tiers are with items off.

Very hard to tier with items on since you never know what will happen.

The most you can say is,"Oh this character will get the items faster since they are so fast."

I mean the fact that Sonic NEEDS items to be viable says alot about him.

[Tigerboi]

He doesn't though. He has a few really good KO moves.

[Sonichuman]

X.X I can see this is going to be an up hill battle for me but I just can't accept low tier. I think I'm gonna have to play you corner-trap. I especially like how you make it sound as if it's nigh impossible to get kills with the hedgehog

[Tigerboi]

i don't see how anyone can say that he has mediocre KO ability. His b+air, U+air, f-smash and up-tilt all KO. And all of those are really good moves.

[Sonichuman]

i don't see how anyone can say that he has mediocre KO ability. His b+air, U+air, f-smash and up-tilt all KO. And all of those are really good moves.

exactly...he's got bad matchups but he does have good moves. And like I said before...I'm hard-headed...especially when it comes to my favorite character. I can't just 'hear' he's low tier...you're gonna have to show me.

[EmblemLord]

Get a new favorite character.

[Deebo 757]

Lol i see you struggling trying to defend sonic on here sonichuman. Now you see what i go through everytime i use kirby. I swear peoples was laughin at me at the tournament, but they shut the hell up when they saw me winning lol. But since this thread is about sonic I'll get serious for a minute....I actually think he's not that bad of a character. Like others, the main problem i have with him are his smashes. His best of course is the foward smash, but i have problems spacing it out sometimes. I guess this just gives balace to the character, he's already hella fast.

[Sonichuman]

Get a new favorite character.

damn emblem...it's like that eh? nah...why would I give up my favorite character to someone more high tier? I ain't a tier whore that isn't my style. If Ike, metaknight, and marth were shit tier you'd probably get a new main...but I'm not you. I do have a few alternate people to go too but regardless of what tier Sonic is gonna be i'm STILL going to rep him as best as I can...even when I'm know I'm probably going to lose. I'd rather have someone lose to me with a mid tier/low tier character than a high tier character anyway =D

Edit:
Lol i see you struggling trying to defend sonic on here sonichuman. Now you see what i go through everytime i use kirby. I swear peoples was laughin at me at the tournament, but they shut the hell up when they saw me winning lol. But since this thread is about sonic I'll get serious for a minute....I actually think he's not that bad of a character. Like others, the main problem i have with him are his smashes. His best of course is the foward smash, but i have problems spacing it out sometimes. I guess this just gives balace to the character, he's already hella fast.

yeah it's a struggle but i'm gonna do my thing regardless of what people in this thread, the next thread or whatever thread say about him. You need to hurry up and bring your ass back up here to Va so we can have pink ball vs hedgehog matches. Bring him on!

[EmblemLord]

I mean honestly..I love Sonic too. I read all the comics and played all the GOOD Sonic games.

I'm all up Sonic lore and Knuckles lore as well. Knuckes family is complicated and convulted as fuck BTW.

Fucking Sega doesn't know what the fuck they are doing with Sonic nowadays.

Anyway, too many times have I regulated myslef to playing my faves against high level comp and gotten wrecked knowing full well that I could go even further with a better character.

I'll play Sonic all day in casuals. But when I'm slapping down 30 bucks for a tourney (20 for singles and 10 for teams) you can bet your ass I will go with a character that can go all the way.

[Sonichuman]

I mean honestly..I love Sonic too. I read all the comics and played all the GOOD Sonic games.

I'm all up Sonic lore and Knuckles lore as well. Knuckes family is complicated and convulted as fuck BTW.

Fucking Sega doesn't know what the fuck they are doing with Sonic nowadays.

Anyway, too many times have I regulated myslef to playing my faves against high level comp and gotten wrecked knowing full well that I could go even further with a better character.

I'll play Sonic all day in casuals. But when I'm slapping down 30 bucks for a tourney (20 for singles and 10 for teams) you can bet your ass I will go with a character that can go all the way.

well said...I already have enough respect for you emblem and your opinion. I'm probably not gonna do any tourneys or anything but for me even if it was a tourney I'd try out sonic first....then go to whoever but that's not the wisest way to go but uhh...that is my way of the ninja?

Edit: I gotta remember to try my dedede against you to see where he's at

[EmblemLord]

LOL.

Props for the naruto reference.

Sonic might not be top tier, but you sir are god tier.

I admire your dedication.

[Rekano]

Don't drop Sonic. Just pick up a secondary.

A back up, as it were.

My Bowser is running into some match up problems too, but I ain't quitin, n who knows. Someone you fight is bound to not be on top of their anti-Sonic game, and having match up knowledge and exp at your fingertips could be the decisive point for teh win and/or Lose.

[Sonichuman]

LOL.

Props for the naruto reference.

Sonic might not be top tier, but you sir are god tier.

I admire your dedication.

lol thanks...anytime we fight online...BEAT THE HELL OUT OF ME...I wanna make sonic as good as possible.

Don't drop Sonic. Just pick up a secondary.

A back up, as it were.

My Bowser is running into some match up problems too, but I ain't quitin, n who knows. Someone you fight is bound to not be on top of their anti-Sonic game, and having match up knowledge and exp at your fingertips could be the decisive point for teh win and/or Lose.

I ain't droppin him..ever! lol I'll fight your bowser some more so you can get better at dealing with the hedgehog's bullshit.

[DeathReaper47]

Sonic doesn't suck; it just there are a LOT of better characters out there. I love Sonic as much as the next guy, but he just isn't my style. When I want a fast annoying character, I switch to Diddy.

[Corner-Trap]

X.X I can see this is going to be an up hill battle for me but I just can't accept low tier. I think I'm gonna have to play you corner-trap. I especially like how you make it sound as if it's nigh impossible to get kills with the hedgehog

I'll PM you whenever I get Wifi, but I'll warn you, I play Jigglypuff. And I'm not saying that it's impossible to KO with Sonic, just harder than what it takes most characters.

[Chiris Pantsu]

Sonic is the hardest character in the game to play.

Ice Climbers say "Hello"

[KMD]

Ice Climbers say "Hello"

A noob ICs will have an easier time of things than a noob Sonic. Getting dat chaingrab going with ICs is very difficult, but just getting used to Sonic is difficult. ICs have a somewhat exponential difficulty curve, while Sonic has a steep early curve that smooths out after a little while.

[kof4life]

Man.... I feel for all you Sonic mainers. He can be frustrating as hell to use, especially against good DI. I was playing a DK yesterday. I got the guy to over 150% on two of his stocks, but I only barely manages to kill him. I landed more than one b-air when he was at over 150%, but his DI kept him alive. It's annoying to be in that situation. I love racking up damage as the little bugger, but it gets bad once I try to KO. Props to you guys for using him, and hopefully something will be found to help make him more able to KO without the crutch of Super Sonic.

[Sonichuman]

Man.... I feel for all you Sonic mainers. He can be frustrating as hell to use, especially against good DI. I was playing a DK yesterday. I got the guy to over 150% on two of his stocks, but I only barely manages to kill him. I landed more than one b-air when he was at over 150%, but his DI kept him alive. It's annoying to be in that situation. I love racking up damage as the little bugger, but it gets bad once I try to KO. Props to you guys for using him, and hopefully something will be found to help make him more able to KO without the crutch of Super Sonic.

don't spam back air when you're ready to ko... try using other things so you can get the ko moves that matter back to full power. I wish there was a way to just straight up cancel his buzzsaw from both his forward b and his down b moves. I was trying to see if there was because that would be even more mix up for him.

[AlphaDragoon02]

Off topic for a sec: Looking at your av, Sonichuman, reminds me of how much cooler the green-eyed whitish-blond SSJ version of Super Sonic is than the current red eyed gold one.

[Sonichuman]

Off topic for a sec: Looking at your av, Sonichuman, reminds me of how much cooler the green-eyed whitish-blond SSJ version of Super Sonic is than the current red eyed gold one.

...well...i suppose they wanted to differentiate super sonic at least slightly from SSJ...even though they came out and said that the idea was taken from dbz...along with the whole '7' chaos emeralds thing instead of 6.

[Tam]

anyone try forward B in standstill then launch straight up with it? it looks fancy! lol

[kof4life]

don't spam back air when you're ready to ko... try using other things so you can get the ko moves that matter back to full power. I wish there was a way to just straight up cancel his buzzsaw from both his forward b and his down b moves. I was trying to see if there was because that would be even more mix up for him.

I usually don't use it much until that point, so it should be at full power when I bust it out.

[ArcadeFire]

I use a hit an run strategy with Sonic. You MUST keep your spiny ass out of the opponents hands. Dash in, do some damage, dash out. Repeat.

[Tigerboi]

sonic's down tilt is the shit, just saying.

[Sonichuman]

sonic's down tilt is the shit, just saying.

yes it is...i've been trying to put it into my game but when i'm fighting people like emblem online..I sometimes end up doing the down smash...if you do it at certain points it can combo into his up tilt and sometimes it causes people to trip...I believe someone mentioned it before.

Also on that jumping out of his forward b and looking fancy...It actually has some use...If you're outside of the stage pretty far away and you actually remember because I have a hard time..rev up his down b...then immediately jump...you'll do a reeeeally long distance jump. I don't know what else this could be applied too but this will make it easier for sonic to get back on the stage. BEWARE....DO NOT...DO THIS TRICK IF YOU'VE ALREADY DONE YOUR SECOND JUMP...You will plummet to your death.

As for approaches you can do with sonic against most people you have these choices...this is just what I do so there may be different for other people

1) Run right in and do his dash attack
pros: fairly quick, most of the time if you do it correctly you'll recover behind the opponent...and can do a forward tilt/down tilt/reverse up tilt before they do anything else..doesn't work for every character and it can catch people who roll backwards.

cons: If the person you're fighting is really good...Sonic's dash attack can be grabbed..just straight up...they can't shield grab it from my experience so far but I've been grabbed out of it...especially if you're fighting Olimar. If he knows you're coming he can just send a pikmin out to snatch your ass up. Also if you do the dash wrong you could be in for some things...Ike turning around and hitting you with his a combo for example...also if the person is dodging all over the place...don't expect to hit it and be prepared to block

2) run in and throw
pros: a good alternative if the person is blocking all day because they've been getting tired of getting spun on all day. Sonic can retaliate with a throw from a good distance away because of his speed however...

cons: for some reason i think it doesn't work as well as it should...maybe it's a bit too slow but I haven't perfected it myself in trying to make up for how fast sonic moves and what not.

3) run...stop...run again
pros: provides a pretty good mixup if done correctly and can make the opponent swipe and claw at the air and to bait out attacks

cons: problem with this though is that if you're still having trouble controlling the hedgehog..you may end up running a bit further than you had wanted and could get smacked in the face. Also be weary that the people that I've fought and done this too go into a attacking/dodging frenzy...choose when to go in carefully

4) Run in and block
pros: you don't get hit with attacks and you cancel your run right in their face...if they attack you...shield grab

cons: depending upon the character..the attack that they use may push sonic out of grabbing range...I'm still experimenting with this.

5) Run and forward b just outside of their attack range
pros: you can do this juuuust within the opponents attack range and if you hold it long enough sonic will back out of it because as he's revving he moves backwards...Also forward b is less likely to be retaliated against because sonic is just slightly off the air when he's coming in...

cons: he can still be out prioritized...Meta knight's spam a attack can nick him out of it...If you hold onto the attack too long they may end up surprising YOU and running in and grabbing you out of the spin...especially if they're fast enough..

I hope this is helpful...>.>;

[Shadow Ace 50]

It seems to me that half of the people in this thread don't know how to run it with Sonic...and im not sharing tips except one...spring pursuit...figure it out*peace*

[Sonichuman]

It seems to me that half of the people in this thread don't know how to run it with Sonic...and im not sharing tips except one...spring pursuit...figure it out*peace*

spring pursuit doesn't always work...especially if the person you're playing is looking for it, but it is good to use it.

[Shadow Ace 50]

spring pursuit doesn't always work...especially if the person you're playing is looking for it, but it is good to use it.



trust me....ALOT of players don't see it coming...

also...don't be so obvious with the dive kick..use as a recovery and use B spin mix-ups

[NeoBlood]

trust me....ALOT of players don't see it coming...

also...don't be so obvious with the dive kick..use as a recovery and use B spin mix-ups

Ill back this statement up. Ive just been trying to focus solely on his speed and its been helping alot, especially on 2v2 matches. Basically just doing everything I can to inflict damage then getting the hell outta there, then finding an unpredictable way to reapproach. In higher damage especially, his downward A smash is pretty good for knocking out peeps. One BIG thing that can really hurt Sonic's game is anyone with a parry move. Wario has chomped my ass more times than I can count and with Ike its kind of a waiting game until his parry animation is over.

[Shadow Ace 50]

I can't tell anyone how to play sonic..just do what you think is going to work...

live and learn bitches....live and learn

my sonic is epic and I wouldnt mind fighting other sonic ppls...acutally an all 4 sonic match would be dope..main complaints are his defense and lack of power...but you make his weaknesses your strenghts..(sorry..lolz) and besides you need to hear that ONE song that will make you hype when using him..

[Sonichuman]

trust me....ALOT of players don't see it coming...

also...don't be so obvious with the dive kick..use as a recovery and use B spin mix-ups

If this person that you were fighting wasn't metknight or Ike...Metaknight can just fucking swipe all day as your coming up after him. I've also been having problems getting around Ike's neutral a since it covers a wide area of him. the problem with spring at times though is that it only really works if the person isn't DI'ing most of the time since Sonic can't attack immediately after the spring and he has to wait until he's 3/4's of the way up you have to predict where the person is gonna go.

Ill back this statement up. Ive just been trying to focus solely on his speed and its been helping alot, especially on 2v2 matches. Basically just doing everything I can to inflict damage then getting the hell outta there, then finding an unpredictable way to reapproach. In higher damage especially, his downward A smash is pretty good for knocking out peeps. One BIG thing that can really hurt Sonic's game is anyone with a parry move. Wario has chomped my ass more times than I can count and with Ike its kind of a waiting game until his parry animation is over.

that's why you should run in and block...unless it's wario...blocking won't save you from the bite. in FFA sonic's not bad to use either because I'm often attacking all 3 people at the same time...so far i've found that this can get you in trouble when all 3 people start focusing on you X.X

I can't tell anyone how to play sonic..just do what you think is going to work...

live and learn bitches....live and learn

my sonic is epic and I wouldnt mind fighting other sonic ppls...acutally an all 4 sonic match would be dope..main complaints are his defense and lack of power...but you make his weaknesses your strenghts..(sorry..lolz) and besides you need to hear that ONE song that will make you hype when using him..

but we can't 'hold on to what if'! >(

I wouldn't mind fighting your sonic shadow...since I've already fought Zan's. Sonic vs. Sonic matches hurt my head though X.X

[KrsJin]

sonic's down tilt is the shit, just saying.

Just quoting, cause well, I agree.
:rofl:

Sonic is fun as heaven. I feel the frustration on his ability to KO at lower percentages but I just can't see him being a gimp in this roster.

[Hawk]

Gotta put in my 0.02.

As far as I can see, right now, Sonic ain't that good. My major complaint is his lack of spammable/finishing moves.

Now, when someone figures out how to abuse his speed and start putting together crazy-ass combos, maybe he'll jump up in tiers.

Either someone masters his mad speed skillz or we give him a genei-jin, that's the only thing that can help him improve.

This is all from videos I've watched. I've never actually touched the game. :confused:

[Sonichuman]

Gotta put in my 0.02.

As far as I can see, right now, Sonic ain't that good. My major complaint is his lack of spammable/finishing moves.

Now, when someone figures out how to abuse his speed and start puting together crazy-ass combos, maybe he'll jump up in tiers.

Either someone masters his mad speed skillz or we give him a genei-jin, that's the only thing that can help him improve.

This is all from videos I've watched. I've never actually touched the game. :confused:

uh....spammable moves...he's got plenty...And I can deal with the finishing moves he has. Like I said before i can deal with sonic being mid tier...it just means I have to work harder against the higher tier characters or....>.>..<.<...or die tryin.

[Hawk]

uh....spammable moves...he's got plenty...And I can deal with the finishing moves he has. Like I said before i can deal with sonic being mid tier...it just means I have to work harder against the higher tier characters or....>.>..<.<...or die tryin.

Found some videos of a really nice Sonic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O_W1zDmb50

And more at http://www.allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=3284

I really want him to be good. I really do. :shake:

Notice the juggling game at about 2:15. Potential?

[Tigerboi]

No spammable moves? D-tilt, b+air, f-air, u-air, n-air and f-tilt?

I don't really see what's so bad about him. The onl thing I don't like about him so far is that he lacks a spike.

[EmblemLord]

Play Snake, Pit, Metaknight or Marth then come back to Sonic then tell me what you think.

[KrsJin]

I'm really starting to think Sonic might require more technical skill, but that's not a determinant of tier listings. I'm beginning to see quite a bit of potential with him. That first vid you posted above Hawk is evidence of some of his capabilities.

I kind of agree with EmblemLord though. When I play Snake I feel like I can be a little bit lazy and still hold favor. I mean I'm thinking a lot while I'm Snake, keeping up with spacing and mines can be daunting if your opponent plays certain ways. Though with Sonic, I feel like I have to be thinking as fast as he can move lol. Constantly trying to think a step or two ahead more than usual to keep pace and not lose my rhythm. That's my take on how it feels though.

[Shadow Ace 50]

fine then sonichuman ill accept your challenge....next week it goes down ill pm you when my wifi is up

oh...and alot of people can't fuck with snake one on one....just sayin

emblem have you fought a turtling sonic before? if not ILL SHOW YOU!!!!..lol

my point is sonic isnt garbage just depends on the player

[EmblemLord]

Have you ever fought a player that turtles Sonic?

Shit isn't fun I gotta tell ya.

[Sonichuman]

fine then sonichuman ill accept your challenge....next week it goes down ill pm you when my wifi is up

oh...and alot of people can't fuck with snake one on one....just sayin

emblem have you fought a turtling sonic before? if not ILL SHOW YOU!!!!..lol

my point is sonic isnt garbage just depends on the player

I don't know when I'm going to be available to throw down with ya....My plate for college is about to spill over.

We're (me, rioting soul, and el ninja(sperm) ) in my school lab right now recording matches so I'll have some up of us playing soon if anyone is interested...

[NeoBlood]

im going to try that homing attack under the stage thing next time I play lol...

[Sonichuman]

I was able to post up a few of the matches I had...not all of them cause it was getting late..I'll get to those later...They start up at the top of this page and go on to the first. Feel free to comment in any way that could be helpful that could improve my game a bit. Please criticize! I'm trying to not rush in all the time and stay calm now so I don't run into random shit 60% of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?p=r&user=Sonichuman&page=2

[KrsJin]

Cool matches man, thanks for uploading. I don't know enough to critique so I'll leave that to someone else lol.

[Sonichuman]

Ok...*looks at emblemlord*...you'll get a kick outta this. I got beat by ken ( onoe of my friends* by wario...on his first try while i was using the hedgehog. lol He wouldn't play wario again though :(. So yeah I found it a bit annoying that wario was just biting me out of stuff so I gotta get more experience fighting his weird ass. Also he used ice climbers on me once as well and even though he barely beat me I could tell that it was a bad match up for him...especially because he can't do any throw mix up on them until he can get them separated which I feel takes a big chunk out of what he could use against them. lol He was just spamming forward tilt anytime sonic tried to move forward and it beat out anything coming in horizontally and Sonic can't spin through the ice even if he waits till the last second to make it as highest priority as possible. They just completely shut down my ground game and you can't really attack them from the air cause of hammers...It was ALMOST like trying to attack metaknight...but I can't tell if it was worse or not because of the ice cubes. I want to get more experience fighting these too to find what I can and cannot do but I've only fought each one once...Anyone got any pointers?


From what I can tell from my point of view from playing sonic so much...You can try to play sonic defensively but I feel it's a bit hard to do so. Take note I didn't say it was impossible though. I'm curious to see your version of him Shadow before I say anything else on it...

Something else that I've noticed during the course of playing this game in general and listening to most people say that this game is mostly about defense and what not...Is it me or does the shield...not last as long as it used too? In melee, I thought it was reeeally rare to see anyone get their shield broken in a match unless they were fighting marth but often times in this game I'd block maybe 2 things consecutively and my shield would be about done.
Could just be me but I wanted to throw that out there to see if anyone else felt the same way.

[EmblemLord]

Shields get raped in this game.

I break shields regularly in my matches when I use Marth cuz he has shieldbreaker.

[Sonichuman]

Shields get raped in this game.

I break shields regularly in my matches when I use Marth cuz he has shieldbreaker.

So it's not just me then? ...so the game is sort of like a reverse guilty gear in that it rewards you for playing defensively but at the same time they don't want you turtling all day.

[Zan-kun]

I've kinda faced the fact that Sonic probably isn't that good of a character... aggressively. It's not a good example, but playing against a lvl 9 cpu (they're beastly btw), a hit and run Sonic works very well. I haven't had much time to use him lately though. I got a half full Friend list and yet nobody is ever online. I guess I have too much free time.

[Sonichuman]

I've kinda faced the fact that Sonic probably isn't that good of a character... aggressively. It's not a good example, but playing against a lvl 9 cpu (they're beastly btw), a hit and run Sonic works very well. I haven't had much time to use him lately though. I got a half full Friend list and yet nobody is ever online. I guess I have too much free time.

you need to go to the brawl srk irc chat...that way you can tell who wants to game or not....i haven't been on much cause my connection in this room is sorta laggy and I've been getting rushed down by life.

[Sonichuman]

I've realized that you don't mash on sonic's homing attack to make it come out faster...you only need to press the special button once after a certain time to make it come out before it makes you do it...it's like close to a second after he starts rising. Nothing special in particular but eh.

Something else i've realized is that sonic's neutral air can be your best friend if you time it correctly. I've fought my friend's olimar a lot and if you wait till the last second before you attack with it then it can eat right through olimar's up smash....I started short hopping it and making it so that I land right behind the person as i'm coming down and so far it seems to be a pretty good tactic for the most part. I don't know what else it can eat through but as of right now it's probably sonic's most reliable spin if your timing is good. I've also seen it eat through the first swipe of metaknight's up smash...but as I stated earlier Sonic's priority diminishes the longer he spins..so by the time the second hit comes out it's lowered enough that metaknight beats it out. If there's been any other instance of it beating out something else that I don't know about that you've seen it do let me know.

[Galactic]

I just bought this game 4 days ago and I already know Sonic is utter trash by himself. He is however the ULTIMATE item hog if you play with items on due to his speed. If I'm playing Sonic, no one else is getting a pokeball or assist or food item. Sonic with chili power is actually fun to play with...

Thing with Sonic is, he's fast, but incredibly predictable. You can see him charging all of his damage attacks from a mile away. His up smash is pretty weak and has little to no priority, his down kick leaves him vulnerable when he lands for way too long, and his forward smash takes forever to actually land.

Sonic is definately bottom tier in this game imo if the items are off. With them on, depending on the items, he can be mid to high tier.

^_-;

[Sonichuman]

I just bought this game 4 days ago and I already know Sonic is utter trash by himself. He is however the ULTIMATE item hog if you play with items on due to his speed. If I'm playing Sonic, no one else is getting a pokeball or assist or food item. Sonic with chili power is actually fun to play with...

Thing with Sonic is, he's fast, but incredibly predictable. You can see him charging all of his damage attacks from a mile away. His up smash is pretty weak and has little to no priority, his down kick leaves him vulnerable when he lands for way too long, and his forward smash takes forever to actually land.

Sonic is definately bottom tier in this game imo if the items are off. With them on, depending on the items, he can be mid to high tier.

^_-;

.........*smirk*....who exactly are you playing with as your main galactic?

[Galactic]

.........*smirk*....who exactly are you playing with as your main galactic?

Lucas and Falco are the chars I get the most kills with atm. Link used to be my best in SSM but he got nerfed. Jugglypuff was my second best in SSM but I haven't unlocked her yet so I can't tell if she got nerfed or not. I'll play your Sonic vs My Lucas any time 1 v 1 with no items if you want to prove Sonic isn't low tier. Lucas' Up smash has priority over just about every single move Sonic has.

EDIT: Actually, I haven't played online as of yet. How bad are the lag issues?

^_-;

[Sonichuman]

Lucas and Falco are the chars I get the most kills with atm. Link used to be my best in SSM but he got nerfed. Jugglypuff was my second best in SSM but I haven't unlocked her yet so I can't tell if she got nerfed or not. I'll play your Sonic vs My Lucas any time 1 v 1 with no items if you want to prove Sonic isn't low tier. Lucas' Up smash has priority over just about every single move Sonic has.

EDIT: Actually, I haven't played online as of yet. How bad are the lag issues?

^_-;

wow...you're planning on hitting me with Lucas' up smash? O.o....oh dear...lol. Lag isn't bad if you have a reeeeally good connection and it's even less depending upon the distance...where are you at?

[Galactic]

wow...you're planning on hitting me with Lucas' up smash? O.o....oh dear...lol. Lag isn't bad if you have a reeeeally good connection and it's even less depending upon the distance...where are you at?

ROFL, mind telling me what you THINK you'll be able to do with Sonic? :rolleyes:

I'm in NYC, just upgraded to Verizon Fios but I'm havin issues with the shitty Router Verizon supplied me with. Even with a shitty connection a decent Falco will own any Sonic 1v1 no items.

^_-;

[Sonichuman]

ROFL, mind telling me what you THINK you'll be able to do with Sonic? :rolleyes:

I'm in NYC, just upgraded to Verizon Fios but I'm havin issues with the shitty Router Verizon supplied me with. Even with a shitty connection a decent Falco will own any Sonic 1v1 no items.

^_-;

oh i know falco gives sonic problems...but you were talking about hitting me with Lucas' up smash lol. And I don't think I'll be able to do anything...we'll see how it goes...no?

[metaphist]

Lucas' Up smash has priority over just about every single move Sonic has.

Lucas' up smash has priority over just about anything, period.

Sonic seems to have a lot of trouble against the small characters since his hitboxes are so small. It cripples his juggle game a lot, which is pretty decent against big targets (Uair, double jump Uair, spring jump Uair for the KO). Sonic would be a lot better IMO with a decent grab, since he is so fast that dashing shield grabs would rape, but alas his grab range is pretty ghey.

To win with sonic you have to be totally unpredictable, switching up your approach constantly and using your speed to confuse. KO off the side with Fsmash and Bair, and at high percentages spring jump to Uair is fast and can catch people off guard.

A spammable tactic is the dash attack to Fsmash. If timed right, the dash attack will pop them up so they land just in range for the Fsmash. Make sure you double stutter step all your Fsmashes for the range sonic desperately needs (back + c-stick forward for a regular stutter, forward > back + c-stick forward for the double).

The falling spring from the spring jump can hit recovering opponents and works surprisingly well for KO's. If anyone can develop a solid strategy for getting them below the stage often, the spring jump would make sonic very annoying and dangerous!

I'll stop there for now. There's a few interesting things about his spin dashes, but I'll save that for later.

--------

BTW, the lag online is definately an issue, especially depending on what characters you play. It pretty much changes the game because certain tactics become unreliable while crap that normally wouldn't work becomes abusable.

[Sonichuman]

Lucas' up smash has priority over just about anything, period.

Sonic seems to have a lot of trouble against the small characters since his hitboxes are so small. It cripples his juggle game a lot, which is pretty decent against big targets (Uair, double jump Uair, spring jump Uair for the KO). Sonic would be a lot better IMO with a decent grab, since he is so fast that dashing shield grabs would rape, but alas his grab range is pretty ghey.

To win with sonic you have to be totally unpredictable, switching up your approach constantly and using your speed to confuse. KO off the side with Fsmash and Bair, and at high percentages spring jump to Uair is fast and can catch people off guard.

A spammable tactic is the dash attack to Fsmash. If timed right, the dash attack will pop them up so they land just in range for the Fsmash. Make sure you double stutter step all your Fsmashes for the range sonic desperately needs (back + c-stick forward for a regular stutter, forward > back + c-stick forward for the double).

The falling spring from the spring jump can hit recovering opponents and works surprisingly well for KO's. If anyone can develop a solid strategy for getting them below the stage often, the spring jump would make sonic very annoying and dangerous!

I'll stop there for now. There's a few interesting things about his spin dashes, but I'll save that for later.

--------

BTW, the lag online is definately an issue, especially depending on what characters you play. It pretty much changes the game because certain tactics become unreliable while crap that normally wouldn't work becomes abusable.

I would suggest trying to use the spring on pit when he tries to use his up b and go under the stage to the other side or just to come from underneath the stage in general since he can't risk getting hit period while he'sdoing his up. If he's saved his jumps then it's still possible for him to come back. That's what I WOULD like to say would work but I haven't fought pit enough to test it out...and most of the time i'm too busy getting hit by and/or dodging arrows or trying to DI out of AIYAYAYAYA!!!

Sonic's running shield grab is good though...O.o...I use it all the time especially since when you shield while he's running it stops him so abruptly. When I was playing around with him in practice mode in slow mo. I noticed that he had to be fully in his run animation in order for the shield to come out...otherwise you'd end up getting a roll if you did it too fast...meaning you have to be at least at a certain distance because of sonic's speed. Most of the time i'm not getting grabbed when i'm doing it and if the opponent attacks with something fast I'm usually already in their face with the shield up which causes me to get a perfect guard.

Something else I've been trying with sonic in order to do more damage is learning the timing of knee when he has you in a grab to apply the maximum amount of damage from his throw game. I went into slow mo practice and you don't have to wait till sonic set's his foot down before going for another one...it has to be just about when he sets the tip to the ground. At higher percentages I've able to get 5-6 knees off easily plus a grab even with the person mashing. Each knee does around 3%. I probably can't demonstrate this at all on anyone i play online because of slight input lag but I'm going to attempt to anyway. We finally got a pretty good internet connection now...but it looks like during the day Nintendo's wifi is all '...MY..SPOON IS TOOO BIGGG..*crosses eyes retardedly*'.

Edit: Oh and Metaphist I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about the dashes

[metaphist]

Sonic's running shield grab is good though...O.o...I use it all the time especially since when you shield while he's running it stops him so abruptly. When I was playing around with him in practice mode in slow mo. I noticed that he had to be fully in his run animation in order for the shield to come out...otherwise you'd end up getting a roll if you did it too fast...meaning you have to be at least at a certain distance because of sonic's speed. Most of the time i'm not getting grabbed when i'm doing it and if the opponent attacks with something fast I'm usually already in their face with the shield up which causes me to get a perfect guard.

I probably just suck at it. I do land it nicely to punish whiffs, but I also miss a lot when trying to surprise with it. I definitely need to work on that aspect of his game. Have you had any luck with the pivot grab? It looks good on paper cuz of sonic's speed, but I haven't tested it in a match.

About the dashes, well you probably already know this but you can cancel the down B by jumping straight up immediately after charging but before you even start to move. You can stop yourself from getting punished if you think they see it coming. I'm pretty sure it works for the forward B too.

When trying to recover with the forward B, if you've already used your second jump you'll be totally stuck in the spinning animation, so only use it before the second jump.

I've also heard that the forward B has invincibility right at the start up (I'm assuming the little hop). I haven't tested it, but peeps were saying that it goes right through a lot of moves if timed right. If it's true you could probably use it to go right through edgeguards!

Sorry to be OT, but what other char's do you like? Seems we both play Sonic and D3. My Wii isn't with me atm, but I'll look up my friend code and we can play online sometime eh?

[Shadow Ace 50]

if anyone wants to learn sonic let me know

[metaphist]

don't spam back air when you're ready to ko... try using other things so you can get the ko moves that matter back to full power. I wish there was a way to just straight up cancel his buzzsaw from both his forward b and his down b moves. I was trying to see if there was because that would be even more mix up for him.

Ye olde "buzzsaw cancel" eh? My above post offers a solution. It's not ideal, since it puts you in the air which might limit your options, but it's there nonetheless.

[Sonichuman]

Ye olde "buzzsaw cancel" eh? My above post offers a solution. It's not ideal, since it puts you in the air which might limit your options, but it's there nonetheless.

I suppose I wasn't quite clear....I meant cancel on the ground...so that he could stay groundeded instead of having to cancel it with a jump. My apologies for being a bit vague.

Oh...and forward b doesn't seem to have invincibility from my experience with him...but i stated this earlier that it seems most of his spin attacks have the highest priority when they're first coming out and they slowly diminish as he spins.

[omfg]

Even with a shitty connection a decent Falco will own any Sonic 1v1 no items.
mind testing that theory? In fact, I can stay Sonic the entire period

if anyone wants to learn sonic let me know
How about WE let YOU know?

I came here with the purpose of learning some neat stuff about Sonic but instead I see lots of things I already know (which is good, means people are actually learning this guy), Sonic bashers, and Sonic non-sense... people here have a lot to learn

edit: Sonichuman, I think you're on the road to learning him. Minus the tilts and B-across, I used to play him just like that. I think you might find it better to refrain from using the B moves so much. Sonic loses a lot of speed if you use B moves

edit2: uhhh nevermind. I saw another vid of you combining the b moves... I guess you should keep playing your way, but yeah keep in mind that you WILL lose speed like that

[Shadow Ace 50]

my bad....stop the neg please

[omfg]

omfg... ARE YOU HIGH????? (pun included)

so what are saying then? hmm I don't want trouble but it sounds like you saying I can't run it with my boy black sonic...

you have to teach yourself..like I have..thats why when I read this A-tilt B-tilt shit I laugh

there is no WE about this..I am the shit with sonic
Anyone can teach themselves, but the learning process speeds up if everyone pitches in. That's why I'm even in this thread at all. that's also why I encouraged Sonichuman to continue to play like he does instead of like me even though I don't approve of it, because if it sucks then he'll stop using it and move on to the shit that doesn't suck.

I agree that lots of the stuff here is just flat out :confused:. I don't care if you're the best sonic in the universe; with the way you are you'll lose your place soon enough. Keep holding in all that shit we'll be using years, months, weeks, hell maybe even hours from now, gl with that

edit: WTF. apparently the huge post I planned to make detailing what I've learned about Sonic wasn't made. I'll do that later

[Shadow Ace 50]

the way I am? speeds up?

sighs..ok sir

I retire from this thread..if anyone wants to train with sonic..pm

[omfg]

No, if anyone wants to train with Sonic, get in touch with me and/or read this thread, do not listen to that asshole.

Post is almost done btw. Just making sure all of my info is right currently

[EmblemLord]

^^^^^^^^^^^^And what is your problem exactly?

[Shadow Ace 50]

No, if anyone wants to train with Sonic, get in touch with me and/or read this thread, do not listen to that asshole.

Post is almost done btw. Just making sure all of my info is right currently

LOL....aww someone a little upset??

[ArcadeFire]

LOL TROLLAN

:rofl:

[omfg]

Ok, so this is what I've learned about Sonic and this is how I play him.

Note: Just about every attack that Sonic has can be shield grabbed. If it can't, then I'll mention it. Also, if ANYTHING I've said is wrong, please correct me and tell me why.

Jab: Not the best jab in the game, but it can do some real work for Sonic. This allows Sonic a change to fight and get hits in without taking any. The kick portion of the combo gives good knockback. You can also kinda do an incomplete or fractured jab combo in order to catch sidesteppers and protect yourself. In this way, if someone sidesteps, they'll still get hit by the kick at the end. If they roll behind you or roll away, then since you're not doing the whole combo, you'll have time to instantly react. NOTE: Do NOT use this if opponent has a longer jab (ex. Peach). In fact, disregard this entire jab section if you're fighting someone like Peach. Although it can be shield grabbed, in my experience it hasn't happened.

Dash Attack: Very fast, instant startup, and I think it can start comboes. It's very laggy though. And if you miss, you'll pay for it. You have to do it either when they aren't expecting it or when they can't do anything about it.

Tilts
Forward: I just recently started using this. I don't think it's too good for straight up battle, but this move is absolutely excellent for knocking shielding people off the edge. Otherwise I wouldn't recommend it using this very often. It's not exactly his greatest attack.
Up: This is a pretty good move. I've seen Sonic players use this attack naked, but I don't know if it's any good or if that's just their preference. Maybe it works in straight up combat, I don't know. But what I do know is that this is great for building up damage.
Down: It's a good combo starter. I don't think it comboes, but I use U-tilt after landing D-tilt. Builds up damage pretty quickly.

Smashes
Forward: This smash is a KO move. It's slow, so you have to use it only when the time is right. I think it's pretty safe as long as it makes an impact, especially since it can't be shield grabbed.. except by those with ranged grabs apparently, I just went and tested it with Samus. When you first use this, it feels like.. there's just no way in hell it'll ever hit. There's plenty of situations where it will be the best move to use.
Up: I think that this works pretty well for anti-air. Think of this as a stationary shoryuken (doesn't count with disjointed limbs). I'm not sure on the properties of the attack at all, but so far it's never failed me vs a limb.
Down: The forward roll of this move can KO, but I don't think it's useful to use for that. I try not to use this move because I usually use the D-smashes for protection.. this move doesn't protect Sonic because its slow startup makes it avoidable. Besides that, F-smash hits you slightly further. I suppose it's good to protect yourself from a running attack though.

Aerials
Neutral: I can't say much about this since I rarely use it. Only thing I can say about this move is that it does more damage on startup. I use this only as a last resort because it's quick to start.
Forward: It might not seem like it, but this is a KO move.. it's not one hit though. It has good knockback for a move that doesn't completely KO. Hell, you could use this move then turn around to use the B-air. Won't always work like that though.
Back: Strong KO move. It has a bit of startup and a little landing lag, but if you can get past that, it works.
Up: This is good for building up damage and generally controlling someone who's airborne.
Down: This move, like most of the dive kicks, beats out some of the annoying anti-air. Doesn't work on disjointed limbs, so beware vs chars like Lucas and Marth.

B Moves
B Neutral: Good to get in a sneak hit on your opponent or force him into a position he doesn't want to be in.. but only when used sparingly. If they know you're about to use it, you could be fucked because of it.
B Forward: Don't know much about this.. except it hops up in the air on startup and it's slower than the B-down version. Apparently you can use this and jump straight up in the air. It can be charged, but it'll hop on startup.
B Up: This is EXCELLENT for vertical recovery. If you do it in the air, the spring you jump off of does a small bit of damage. If you do it on the ground, it leaves a spring there for use for a short amount of time. It's instant too, instant enough to do a nice KO tactic.. if you use U-throw then immediately land a B-air on a high % char, instant KO. I'm not 100% certain on it working every single time because I've noticed people DIng from my U-throws and my B-airs become off enough to miss, but it's been working.
B Down: This is the spindash I like to use. When someone is busy doing something, sometimes I'll charge this up really fast, hit with it, and jump into a U-air. I do it sparingly. I don't really like to put down people's reactions to a certain attack, but many players act very robotic when dealing with attacks like this and forget their original objective. So if you're on the edge for instance, you could use this and your opponent will basically allow you to go back to the middle of the stage. I don't think the straight vertical versions of B-down or B-forward can be shield grabbed.

Throws
Forward: I'm not even sure what this is for anymore. If you want them over your head, you can U-throw and that lets you combo them too. If you want damage, U-throw gives highest throw damage AND allows you to combo afterwards. If you simply want them to be thrusted forward, D-throw shoots them forward. I guess in a weird way, it can be chain throwed. I dunno what to say about this one.
Back: I've only been using this throw to keep people off the stage. That's pretty much all I have to say about it.
Up: This is the combo starter. Later on as the % builds, U-throw > B-up > B-air leads to a KO.
Down: This throw pushes the opponent forward and keeps them on the ground. So if you want to put your opponent in a worse position, you could use this to do it.
Note: It's a teeny bit slower than a running grab, but I've found if you let go of the control stick while dashing to do a throw, he'll do a standing throw instead of a running throw. Also, as far as building up damage with attacking, you can only get about one hit in at the lower %s before your opponent can break out.

Strategy
It's simple. The strategy is just to build up as much damage as you can, using the attacks that build up damage (U-air, U-tilt, U-throw, jab, F-air, etc.). After that, you start throwing out the KO attacks. I try to build up damage while keep myself safe. I do that by using Sonic's moving speed. If I'm in a position I don't like, I just run or walk away. If I'm near an edge though, I'll do that but then quickly do something about my position (ex. run and throw them, B-down, walk up and throw some jabs, wait for them to roll/sidestep/attack/etc. and then punish). Attack defensively when near an edge or as soon as you're hit, be offensive as soon as you land even one hit or see one opening. As for recovery, I use B to recovery sometimes since it homes in on the opponent. Other times I'll use the spring and hope for the best. I'm good at the normal fighting in SSBB I think but I suck at edge guarding and recovery.


That's it.

[Tigerboi]

Sonic sucks.

[omfg]

omg.. after making that long ass post and the first reply is "Sonic sucks"... almost had a heart attack I laughed so hard

[Hawk]

Okay, so I posted a while back about my opinion of Sonic, that being rather low. I've had more time hands-on with Brawl, and my opinion has completely turned around. Alongside Lucario, he is now my main.

Apart from his ridiculous speed which is fucking fantastic for combos, he's got pretty nice air moves, good specials (when you're smart about using them) and a ridiculous juggling game.

He'd be top tier with a decent finishing move. But for now, it's b-up into u-air. :tup:

HE'S THE FASTEST THING ALIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIVE

[Sonichuman]

edit: Sonichuman, I think you're on the road to learning him. Minus the tilts and B-across, I used to play him just like that. I think you might find it better to refrain from using the B moves so much. Sonic loses a lot of speed if you use B moves

edit2: uhhh nevermind. I saw another vid of you combining the b moves... I guess you should keep playing your way, but yeah keep in mind that you WILL lose speed like that

=D...I've been playing with him for a good while...so for the time being I know what i'm doing...as there's usually always some method to my madness even though it may not seem like it.

your lil faq on him I skimmed through and is pretty good...a lot better than certain random replies and barely anyone actually trying to give stuff on their experience with him save for a few people.

Some things you're missing though is that if you do his dash attack correctly it can't be shield grabed....you can however be grabbed as the spin is coming too you. Online it can't be demonstrated too well because of input but sonic players have to be wary of this that sonic can be just nabbed out of most if not all of his rolls coming straight towards the opponent. I wouldn't know how difficult that is since i've only been against a 2-3 sonic matches...however I have fought a pit in real time and he just grabbed me out of it as if it was nothing...>.> of course I was charging that shit from all the way on the other side of final destination....and that was at the beginning of my smash brawl career with sonic..but STILL it's something to be wary of. That's another reason why I use Forward b...since it gives him that tiny hop at the beginning and makes it harder to grab.

Another thing...The longer you charge up his forward b and wait till the last second to release...then the more priority the spin has. Example...You do forward b....pit arrows...arrow stops spin, but if you hold on to it and wait till just before the arrow hits you...it will eat right through the arrow. Most other High priority attacks from other characters tend to clash at that close range with his forward b spin...Not really a good thing especially if it's Metaknight you're fighting or Ike is just holding onto the normal attack button to get his aaa combo out as soon as possible.

Also his neutral air actually surprisingly has good priority out of most of his moves...as I stated earlier I've been able to eat right through Olimar's up smash if it is timed correctly...also you can do a short hop neutral air and make it so that you touch the tip of their sheild behind them as you land...will probably take some practice...but don't do it all the time as people will get annoyed and just try to swat you away all day with up smash...Another good tactic is to fast fall it off the stage on people who are trying to come back on and don't have super armor...works especially good on tether recovery after they've latched onto the stage....but of course an alternative is just letting them have it with the spring =D.

Generally though if you're playing sonic you want to try to keep the person off balance and put them in the 'speed trap' as much as possible. Down throw is great for this because Sonic can tech chase like nobody else can.




^^^^^^^^^^^^And what is your problem exactly?

good god emblem..what happened to your rep? O.o?

Sonic sucks.

Thanks for your input tigerboi it was much appreciated..thumbs up soldier! =D

[EmblemLord]

LOL.

Uhh I got randomly negged for a comment that wasn't even mean or anything. Then I got kinda pissed and tuanted the guy that did it so he got his SRK buddies to mass neg me.

I guess it made his e-peen bigger or something.

[Zan-kun]

I was totally about to give up Sonic a few days ago, but I'm gonna keep him around. For some reason, learning the timing of homing attack re-invigorated me (it's scary how instinctive it is if you've ever played a 3D Sonic game). Plus, canceling run into shield is no joke. Again, I love the mix up potential.

I really want to do Sonic mirror matches with ya again, Sonichuman. It's been like a month since then lol.

What could use the most improvements are my match ups. I'm pretty terrible against Snake and Olimar because I haven't played many competent ones. There are many others, but those are the main trouble makers.

[omfg]

*snip*
wow. I didn't know any of that, especially about charging the B-forward. If it's stronger than B-down, I may use that sparingly. Some people throw projectiles and such to cancel my spinout and that usually puts me in a place I don't want to be. As for being thrown out of spins, I was snatched exactly once in my entire time with Sonic, and that was that.. felt that was a once in a life time chance. As for attacks, I realized a moment ago that I use N-air more than I let on. At first I could only recall when I'm attacking someone and run out of stuff to do so I N-air to avoid punishment, but sometimes I run and attack with it too. It's got a lot of priority and good knockback.

edit: oh, one othre great thing about N-air, the jab combo can follow up immediately after.

Speed trapping.. are you saying that Sonic can chainthrow with his D-throw, or is it a pseudo chain, or something even less than that? I certainly "speed trap", but I don't do a throw after chasing. I only chase to stay close and make them feel uncomfortable. That works surprisingly well, even vs Marth. Although my Sonic can compete vs Marth, I've yet to beat one.. it's something about getting the last few hits on the last stock.

LOL.

Uhh I got randomly negged for a comment that wasn't even mean or anything. Then I got kinda pissed and tuanted the guy that did it so he got his SRK buddies to mass neg me.

I guess it made his e-peen bigger or something.
to be brutally honest, I don't know anyone here nor do I even care to. even if I did know ANYONE here, I don't give a fuck about you, Shadow Ace, your rep, your dog,... I don't know you at all. To me you're text on a screen that I won't even remember by tomorrow. you got negged rep cause some asshole neg repped you; I had nothing to do with that decision

[Sonichuman]

wow. I didn't know any of that, especially about charging the B-forward. If it's stronger than B-down, I may use that sparingly. Some people throw projectiles and such to cancel my spinout and that usually puts me in a place I don't want to be. As for being thrown out of spins, I was snatched exactly once in my entire time with Sonic, and that was that.. felt that was a once in a life time chance. As for attacks, I realized a moment ago that I use N-air more than I let on. At first I could only recall when I'm attacking someone and run out of stuff to do so I N-air to avoid punishment, but sometimes I run and attack with it too. It's got a lot of priority and good knockback.

edit: oh, one othre great thing about N-air, the jab combo can follow up immediately after.

Speed trapping.. are you saying that Sonic can chainthrow with his D-throw, or is it a pseudo chain, or something even less than that? I certainly "speed trap", but I don't do a throw after chasing. I only chase to stay close and make them feel uncomfortable. That works surprisingly well, even vs Marth. Although my Sonic can compete vs Marth, I've yet to beat one.. it's something about getting the last few hits on the last stock.



Ok Speed trap...most people who play sonic do it but just don't realize it...I believe someone else refer to it as the speed trap and I like the name.

Speed trap is basically if the opponent is down on the ground within a certain vicinity of sonic...He can react to whatever it is that they decide to do. If they roll one way Sonic is on top of them, if they roll the other sonic will catch them, if they stand straight up he's got it covered, if they try to attack on wake up...he's shield grabbing. Speed trap is IMO one of the biggest tools that sonic has in his game and can frustrate the HELL out of people (Hearing the people I play with and listening to them shaking the control and then insulting the game...all that jazz). The most easy way to start the speed trap is down throw. Most people don't tech that throw and even if they do sonic should be on top of that ass. After a down throw try to watch and predict what they are gonna do. If they are at a very low percentage try to get them in another down throw. If they try to just lay down on the ground in hopes of you running pass...dash attack that ass and make them get up or run and cancel the run into a shield right beside their body. Most people will then attempt to do something...should be relatively easy to react. This trap is only possible because of the fact that sonic moves so fast and he can stop on a dime by canceling the run into a shield. There have been countless times when I've been able to run up to the dead body and shield and upon seeing them try to roll backward...quickly adjust so that i'm there right when they wake up with the shield in their face and they're getting grabbed and kneed in the face again.

However this is also why I know Ice climbers is a horrible matchup for him because they take out one of the biggest aspects of his ground game away...you can't grab them period if Nana is around...add that with high priority hammers...lol.

Zan...Sonic can definitely beat olimar...especially because any of sonic's spins automatically knock them off. It can be pretty tough if the Olimar is relatively good especially if they mix in their pikmin throw with their forward smash. Something that I've been forced to do in that match is run towards olimar and judge the distance of his forward smash...right before I get to that point I charge up forward b..if you do it correctly it should bowl over the pikmin he chucks at you...Also keep in mind that when sonic charges his forward b he backs up a bit as opposed to his down b. You can be pretty sneaky with that if you get just in side of someone's attack range and then back out of it while charging...don't spam it though. If you give up sonic I don't blame anyone...he's tough to use and you reeeally gotta work for your kills but i'm fine with that. I'll try to mirror match you again at some point but I need to make sure I have some Advil to get rid of the headache I'm going to be recieving during the course of that match. I owe shadow ace a couple of rounds first...so I gotta get to him when I can.

Also...as for the snake vs. Sonic match..I have little to no experience with that so I can't really give any pointers...judging by the way snake hits though I'd say he has pretty good priority on his attacks for not having a sword. C4 should never be much of an issue if you're able to keep track of where it is...Sonic not really supposed to be standing still. And judging by how long it takes for snake to actually hit the detonator...you could probably fuck with snake if he tries to detonate it since he'd have to do it relatively early. I'd probably even be daring in my first match up with a snake and run right over it to get to snake before he gets a chance to set it off... yes i'm THAT confident in sonic's speed. (take note though...my first match online...the person i was playing got the dragoon and I sat right in front of the reticule for about 2 seconds...then took off in one of the directions just as he hit the button...That was crazy fun lol :bgrin:). I've been hearing things about the damned's snake and what not and would actually like to try out a snake vs. sonic matchup with him....cause anything I say on it is just on speculation on how I THINK rather than what I know. Maybe you can post what your problems are?

[Tigerboi]

omg.. after making that long ass post and the first reply is "Sonic sucks"... almost had a heart attack I laughed so hard

Everyone! look at the big dumbass fish I caught!

Emblem lord: Stop posting about your rep. Nobody cares.

[omfg]

Although I knew it could be done and have seen it done numerous times, I never thought to shield grab a wakeup attack.. that's a pretty good idea. I didn't know his dash attack could be cancelled, though I have a friend who plays Snake and he cancels his running dash into U-smash. Speed trapping sounds sort of chancey though, and I think you'd lose out on more damage using D-throw than U-throw. With U-throw you can pile up the damage easily because they're in the air and it's not easy to avoid attacks when you are, but with D-throw you're kinda relying on their next response even if you do have a lot of options.. but hey, if they do something like sleep (not get up immediately), then you can D-smash them off the screen. I guess they've both got their own depths. What I do is use his speed to attack people on wakeup like you're saying, but I pretty much let any sleepers sleep. I'll try speed trapping with D-throw if I remember to and see how it works out for me.

My wii isn't hooked at the moment up, but if shield makes him stop even faster than his normal running stop, that might mean he can do standing grabs much faster that I thought. His dash n grab is one of the things that makes him deadly, but it's also one of the things that leaves him open.

edit: to the poster above, if you still think Sonic sucks I can show you that he doesn't if you'd like

[Tigerboi]

Too late. He sucks. (look at the fish struggle!)

[KMD]

Too late. He sucks. (look at the fish struggle!)

C'mon man, throw him back. You're depleting the environment.

[Sonichuman]

Emblem lord: Stop posting about your rep. Nobody cares.

I actually asked him about it...but i'm sure I didn't need to tell you that...

Although I knew it could be done and have seen it done numerous times, I never thought to shield grab a wakeup attack.. that's a pretty good idea. I didn't know his dash attack could be cancelled, though I have a friend who plays Snake and he cancels his running dash into U-smash. Speed trapping sounds sort of chancey though, and I think you'd lose out on more damage using D-throw than U-throw. With U-throw you can pile up the damage easily because they're in the air and it's not easy to avoid attacks when you are, but with D-throw you're kinda relying on their next response even if you do have a lot of options.. but hey, if they do something like sleep (not get up immediately), then you can D-smash them off the screen. I guess they've both got their own depths. What I do is use his speed to attack people on wakeup like you're saying, but I pretty much let any sleepers sleep. I'll try speed trapping with D-throw if I remember to and see how it works out for me.

My wii isn't hooked at the moment up, but if shield makes him stop even faster than his normal running stop, that might mean he can do standing grabs much faster that I thought. His dash n grab is one of the things that makes him deadly, but it's also one of the things that leaves him open.



Attacks done in the air are not guaranteed...Sonic is no exception. Air dodge can be spammed in this game especially with less of a risk of dying from dodging stuff. Anytime you're the hedgehog and someone is in the air you have to choose what and when you're going to do next wisely...If the person is dodging a whole lot then neutral air may last long enough while you're inside of their sprite as they're air dodging that it could hit them on recovery out of it. Forward air has a good chance of catching people on the last couple of hits out of their dodge if they're not falling fast enough. You can also try to bait out a dodge before attacking.

[EmblemLord]

Tigerboi: Calm the fuck down.

Also lol@ saying Sonic sucks and then when I implied the same thing about Link you got upset before.

[Tigerboi]

Tigerboi: Calm the fuck down.

Also lol@ saying Sonic sucks and then when I implied the same thing about Link you got upset before.


lol, I did? T.I. needs to speak with you again. I recall only calling you a terrible poster.

How many fishes can you catch with only one lure? shit.


ANYWAY, Yes, I find him shitty, but I find him fun to play with regardless. A character's placing on the tier list never has any effect on whether or not I play them.

[EmblemLord]

Haha. You should read the post where I'm actually serious then tell me I'm a horrible poster.

[Tigerboi]

....you're a horrible poster.

Ok, now that we've moved past that, has anyone found a offensive use for homing attack?

[Dragonite]

best use of neutral b is when youre edge guarding. harass them and make them use their 2nd jump. then you can jump back at them and neutral b. it's a pretty decent to do b/c it keeps him relatively safe. the only thing though is that its hard to connect with it if they DI properly. but it does have potential to smash them out if their damage is high enough.

oh you can also use it as a recovery. it helps to make your way back to grabbing the ledge if you need that extra distance. also you can use it to just hit the guy if hes edge guarding you and you can just get back on the stage.

i honestly dont think sonic is that bad of a character if played right. he can rack up damage. he just doesn't have anything super abuseable. my one gripe with him though is that he has no KO moves : (

[ArcadeFire]

Lol@Tigerboi baiting fools :rofl:

Homing Attack is useful on gimping recoveries IMO. It can also be used to aid your own recoveries too.

[omfg]

Too late. He sucks. (look at the fish struggle!)
Say what you want I guess, but it holds no meaning if there's nothing behind the words.

....you're a horrible poster.

Ok, now that we've moved past that, has anyone found a offensive use for homing attack?
I've only been using this while on the edge. Sometimes it'll take people by surprise and you'll have knocked them off the edge. Its knockback is decent. Other than that, I saw the vid of Sonichuman where he charged a B-right, jumped and immediately did the B move.. it was surprisingly quick, but I'm not sure how good that is overall.

best use of neutral b is when youre edge guarding. harass them and make them use their 2nd jump. then you can jump back at them and neutral b. it's a pretty decent to do b/c it keeps him relatively safe. the only thing though is that its hard to connect with it if they DI properly. but it does have potential to smash them out if their damage is high enough.

i honestly dont think sonic is that bad of a character if played right. he can rack up damage. he just doesn't have anything super abuseable. my one gripe with him though is that he has no KO moves : (
Isn't that a bit dangerous? What if they air dodge the B move? Btw, Sonic's got KO moves, it's just that some of them are slow. Try B-air, F-air (this may not KO but it will certainly push), D-smash, and F-smash.

Attacks done in the air are not guaranteed...Sonic is no exception. Air dodge can be spammed in this game especially with less of a risk of dying from dodging stuff. Anytime you're the hedgehog and someone is in the air you have to choose what and when you're going to do next wisely...If the person is dodging a whole lot then neutral air may last long enough while you're inside of their sprite as they're air dodging that it could hit them on recovery out of it. Forward air has a good chance of catching people on the last couple of hits out of their dodge if they're not falling fast enough. You can also try to bait out a dodge before attacking.
There's certain periods of time when an air attack is unavoidable, even if they dodge it. Even if they manage to avoid all the air attacks, they have a period of vulnerability on the ground. That's why I like to use that, especially as they're rising.


On a side note, anyone here play Wolf? I notice after playing Sonic for a long time, my Wolf becomes amazingly accurate.

[Dragonite]

it's not dangerous really. if they dodge so what. you could do it again. it's not like you're left vulnerable from doing it. you could always just up b back on stage. i think sonic is has a good approach coming from the air anyway so youre really not at a loss for doing it. but it's not like youre always supposed to neutral b every time you try to edgeguard its something you can do to mix it up though

[Sonichuman]

....you're a horrible poster.

Ok, now that we've moved past that, has anyone found a offensive use for homing attack?

Other than stalling and another way of coming back onto the stage?...Ehhhhhh....The one problem that I have with the homing attack is that you can't really rely on it. 55% of the time i'm expecting it to miss the intended target but when it does hit it's aight...this is just IMO. It has really bad lag if you miss it but not many people have really punished me for it because they're too busy blocking in case they get smacked by it. Some characters can probably just out right punish it on block but he can always do another one a second after and hope that the rise will make them wiff and them BONK! I remember fighting Emblem lord's meta knight and I was having a bitch of a time trying to get inside the wall of priority he had put up and the homing attack had just enough of an arc to bonk him a few times...not significant though as i'm pretty sure if there wasn't any lag issues met knight could probably just go...O.o?....TORNADOOO!!! It did happen to get around metaknight's a spam on the ground sometimes...but again... it isn't really reliable. You can also use it throw off people's game a bit especially if they think you're gonna just run in and attack and they try to have something out before you get there you can jump and immediately go into a homing attack...definitely don't spam that though. Zan's sonic does more homing attacks than I do...so he may have found out more uses for it.

Edit:
On a side note, anyone here play Wolf? I notice after playing Sonic for a long time, my Wolf becomes amazingly accurate.

THAT...is fuckin weird...so you play about the same characters I do!? and yeah after playing sonic I started messing around with Wolf and I was killing people with stuff...dunno what it is. O.o...I've also started dabbling in a tiny bit of luigi but i don't think he's completely up to snuff even though he frustates the hell of of the people I play.

oh and about that whole side b into homing attack thing...I started messing with that in that video cause I did it once and I was like...O.o?....'did the homing attack just get quicker?' I'm unsure of it or not...though...

[omfg]

I play so many chars in every game I get into. Most of the time, I can use even the chars I don't play often. The ones I play, in order to frequent to rarely: are Sonic, Lucario, Wolf, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Ike, Link, Wario, and Fox. I'm starting to like Fox more now though so his place might change soon.

edit: started playing Snake too. At first I couldn't stand him, but now I've got the hang of him a little bit.

It comes out faster if you tap B again. I think some poster in this thread talked about that. Said if you hit B at a certain time during the homing attack, it comes out slightly faster.

[Hawk]

Sonic: Slowly acting as a hate sponge for all negative feelings towards SSBB, creating the image of a perfect game...

[omfg]

yeah seriously. I don't even understand all this hate. Play the mother fucker or don't, call him shitty after exploring him and seeing no options. The sad part is that even if you don't use the right moves, he's still not bad at all.. yet people have this extreme hate for him

[Tigerboi]

I've played sonic. I explored sonic. I'm continuing to explore him because I still use him. I THINK HE SUCKS.

I mean, seriously, why get butthurt if somebody doesn't like using him? If you think he's good, cool. It's not like we have a definitive tier list anyway. Niggas need to put their skirts down. At this point I will consider him low tier until someone discovers some really good crazy shit with him. I think his options are bad. I think he's bad. I don't need to be reminded of what his moves do because I already know.

Hell, I even beast niggas with him. But I still say he sucks.

[omfg]

If Sonic sucks, I wanna know who the hell is good. Unless you're talking about the number of used individual moves or the fact that they're not perfect, I think Sonic's just as good as anyone else. I've played Pit, Meta Knight, Wolf, Marth.. and have still yet to see an overshadow.

[Tigerboi]

That's because you're extremely in denial. The reasons as to why people don't find sonic as good as them are extremely obvious.

Let's talk meta because imo that also happens to be a VERY bad matchup for sonic. Like, a serious rape fest.

All of metaknights attacks seems to come out faster (much faster), have longer reach AND more priority than Sonic. I'm not even going to go down the list because it's literately ALL OF THEM. Oh, and disjointed hitboxes if the rest wasn't bad enough. Metaknight can literately spam d+tilts and forward tilts and sonic will have a hard when on the ground. And this is before meta starts using n+a, and pressuring sonic with SHed fairs and bairs.

Now I happen to like Sonic's air game but meta beats that as well. Sonic's bair is surprisingly slow, slower than the majority of meta's moveset. Not to mention shorter reaching. If sonic uses bair, meta can basically beat it with his attack of choice. Sonic's RAR is completely shut down by meta.

Based on matches I've seen, and played, Meta doesn't even really need to use mind games here. Sonic literately has to play them nearly the entire time and run away often.

Now, I don't think any of the characters in this game are COMPLETE garbage, but some a clearly worse than others. IMO, Sonic doesn't seem to have many favorable matchups. That's excatly what makes a character low-tier.

[omfg]

post not important anymore. if you want, I guess you can read what Sonichuman quoted. but I'm going to find out more about this so that I can be absolutely certain in what I know. Next time I'll be telling you what I know and not what I think.

[Sonichuman]

eh? and I'm in denial? that's just one of Meta Knight's specialties. you speak as if this makes him legions better than Sonic, but It doesn't. An ability that makes a char better than another has to conflict with what that char is (ex. Lucario. Sonic's KO moves aren't easy to land, and Lucario becomes stronger as his % gets higher). Also you're doing something horrible by stating the priority of the chars' attacks vs each other... if my enemy has more priority than me, why would I challenge his attack? Meta Knight's a fast attacking char, but no char in the game is fast enough to attack every second his opponent is attacking. What I and others do is capitalize on periods of vulnerability anyway, so attack vs attack is irrelevant.

I'm not even into this whole tier thing. Hell, I've used chars like Sean and Ibuki. So when someone says the char I'm using sucks, whatever. But t