It's Showtime: The Snake Thread

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Let's get down to it. Post up strats and thoughts for Mr. FOXHOUND!


F-Air: Great spike, odd speed. Finally getting the hang of it.

B-Air: Pretty sweet dropkick. Good KO potential.

Stealing Smash Balls with the Nikita is too fun!

[Jac]

The forward air is really good spike....i got the timing down for that move yesterday..the back air is a good killing move along with the up air...also planting C4's on people is always fun too! :rofl:

[H-F Blade]

U-air seems pretty powerful as well. Startup isn't too bad iirc.

N-air doesn't seem to be all that powerful but it can rack up damage pretty well.

Like most of the ones in the game, his AAA combo is pretty powerful. Fast and has pretty good knockback.

Dash attack is pretty fast and powerful though horribly unsafe if shielded.

Compared to the rest of the cast, Snake seems to play much like a zoning character and one who excels at space control. What are some good ways to control space?

[Septimus Prime]

I like to put a mine and a C4 right next each other. Then someone will dodge the mine, thinking he's all slick, and then he'll die "mysteriously."

Of course, after I set that up, I like to hide behind it and fire missiles at people.

[ArcadeFire]

How the hell do you do the "Light" Nade toss?

[Septimus Prime]

:u: Neutral let-go-of B.

[Dr. Stormlocke]

There's three kinds of tosses after priming a grenade. Hold forward and release, straight up release, and hold BACK and release. I think this is what you are referring to.

Also, shield canceling your grenades allows you to pick them up like you would any other item. Be aware your opponent can also pick them if you do this. But you can be extra tricky with this if they start catching on, and cook them for awhile before dropping. Ideally your opponent then picks them up and boom.

More to come...

[Pimp Willy]

Fucking The Damned (Ulyre) always owns my ass with Snake. In a 4 player match especially, keeping track of where his damn explosives are is a full time job

[fireballtrap]

I was playing around with his neutral air as a jump-in of sorts against people on the ground by running and then small jumping and doing the 3 kick combo. I did this against tall characters (namely Ganondorf). I think alot of it has to do with me not understanding the game, but like, i could hit pretty well with the 3 kicks, but it seems like it puts the opponent at advantage or we're even. Is anything guaranteed? Better yet, what should my next move be after landing something like this?

[Dr. Stormlocke]

I was playing around with his neutral air as a jump-in of sorts against people on the ground by running and then small jumping and doing the 3 kick combo. I did this against tall characters (namely Ganondorf). I think alot of it has to do with me not understanding the game, but like, i could hit pretty well with the 3 kicks, but it seems like it puts the opponent at advantage or we're even. Is anything guaranteed? Better yet, what should my next move be after landing something like this?

Funny you mention this, I was trying the same thing. A Tiger Knee of sorts. I'd hit jump, let go of the analog stick, and then immediately slide my fingers over on to A. After the kicks start coming out, you can control his momentum, so I'd usually pull him back in the air. It works well if you can get all the kicks out, but as you mentioned when you land you seem to be susceptible to enemy attacks.

I could have sworn once I did the air kicks, and immediately combo'd into PPK combo, but I haven't managed to get it down again.

[$hAoLIn]

Snake's dash attack is pretty bananas. On hit it can cancel into up smash (w/ c-stick) giving it safety and time to begin other actions.

His forward tilt combo seems like a 2-hit smash within itself. Great damage and knockback (which of his moves don't have that?!)

The four hits of his down+air can be landed off of one short hop, the last one tagging the foe with massive knockback.

Recovering from the cliff, if you decide to hop, the four hits from neutral air will be thrown before he hits the ground if performed immediately after the hop. Not 100% about all hits connecting on hit

His grab game seems interesting as well. Down+grab leads to the small mix-up game of catching them with another grab if they roll to the side, blocking and punishing their wake-up attack, or if they continue to lie on the ground plant the C4. Since the C4 triggers an explosion sending them straight upward, it's great to use attacks that allow for it to K.O. with ease (up+tilt, up+air, etc).

[EmblemLord]

Snake is stupid good.

The range on his F-tilt combo is compareable to Marth's range on his sword slashes.

Go and test it and you will see what I mean.

While you are at test the range of his u-tilt. I mean see how far in front of him it hits. It's fucking insane.

And all his tilts kill and have ridiculous priority.

Snake can U-tilt anyone out of anything. I'm not fucking joking. His legs are too fucking long and he has too much priority.

Also the hot box on his Bair is fucking dumb. It's like a like a giant invisible sphere of pwnage encircles Snake when he uses Bair.

Snake touches you when he uses that thing, and you just die. Doesn't matter where he touches you. His fucking head could touch you and you would just fly off the screen and explode. Makes no sense. Snakes legs should be the hit box not his whole fucking body.

Fucking Sakurai.

[Jac]

I wanna know what move I should use after recovering with the Up B. I usually do netrual airs after but sometimes it doesnt seem to work. Also Ive been having alot of suicides on Final Destination from recovering...I seem to get caught underneath the stupid ass edge and he just stays there and falls...fuckin lame

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Snake's dash attack is pretty bananas. On hit it can cancel into up smash (w/ c-stick) giving it safety and time to begin other actions.

Yeah this is good stuff. I have yet to do it on whiff though. But on hit it's really not that hard. Here's a shitty quality video of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzook77lt0Q

Looks so funky.

I wanna know what move I should use after recovering with the Up B.

I usually will opt for his B-Air dropkick, dodge/evade, or drop C-4 and try to clear out a landing spot.

Due to input delay/lag/my own stupidity many times a Neutral Air will come out while I'm off the stage. Really sucks, as you know you're dead for a good two seconds before you fall off.

Remember that you can drop C-4 midair and then detonate to damage/boost yourself, thus allowing you to use his Up-B Cypher again.

[Jac]

I usually will opt for his B-Air dropkick, dodge/evade, or drop C-4 and try to clear out a landing spot.

Due to input delay/lag/my own stupidity many times a Neutral Air will come out while I'm off the stage. Really sucks, as you know you're dead for a good two seconds before you fall off.

Remember that you can drop C-4 midair and then detonate to damage/boost yourself, thus allowing you to use his Up-B Cypher again.

Yea i ll use a B-air kick when im facing the opposite way from the stage and droppin some C-4 seems like it would give me a good landing spot....Ive also heard of this C-4 bomb jump kinda like Link's in melee Im going to have to try this out

[The Damned]

Snake is stupid good.

....

Fucking Sakurai.

Says the Marth player.

The range and hit boxes on some of his things are very weird--like you said, for some reason the knee part of F-tilt has the same range as the axehandle, which to me is actually just a bit shorter than Marth's Fsmash.

I hadn't noticed the Utilt thing, though. Thanks. :badboy:

Fucking The Damned (Ulyre) always owns my ass with Snake. In a 4 player match especially, keeping track of where his damn explosives are is a full time job

It difficult to keep track of anything in 4 player Free-for-all, even if you were paying attention to it.



Anyway, I saved a copy of the "Ultimate Snake Compendium" to my laptop before the game came out but have yet to read it, so I'm not sure if the little experiments I did on Tuesday weren't in there already. They were probably were, but it wouldn't hurt to post them anyway:


Takes about 4 real-life seconds for a grenade to explode. (About 17 milliseconds less, actually.)
Takes about 25 real-life seconds for a C4 to automatically explode after being set.
The Nakita has about 10 real-life seconds of go time.
Takes about 25 real-life seconds for mines to disappear, regardless of size.

[kof4life]

Shade said on the Evo rules thread that Snake's FS is , as he called it, gold. I just wanted to know how you guys use it to its full effect, as I've been having trouble with it. I'm trying to make Snake my secondary (Ike is my main), so I'm trying to learn more, as I really suck at playing his mindgames.

[Torn Apart]

random thing i found out with Snake:

if you just hold down the A button, Snake does rapid punches (just the first punch of his aaa combo). Once it connects and your still holding down A, Snake will do his aaa combo.

[Septimus Prime]

It turns out that you CAN short hop the fourth kick of Snake's neutral air. You just have to start the attack on Snake's ascent (like you're doing a kara-throw).

[kof4life]

random thing i found out with Snake:

if you just hold down the A button, Snake does rapid punches (just the first punch of his aaa combo). Once it connects and your still holding down A, Snake will do his aaa combo.

I thought that worked with other characters as well? I know it works with Ike.

[ILLiterate]

He's pretty good, but not that good

Snake gets the shit beat out of him on big flat stages (Smashville, FD) by characters with a good projectile spam, so wait for people to start counter picking that

But yeah he's a sexy beast, one of the best characters for doubles (right behind Ike)

Technique if you guys don't use it, if you shield with a neutral b grenade out it drops. If someone hits a grenade it explodes. Use this to your advantage. If your opponent is approaching you with short hop attacks, shield to drop the grenade, they'll hit it, boom

[EmblemLord]

Snake is easily high tier.

Potentially top tier.

His tilts are ridiculous.

As is his jab combo as well as his Bair and Uair.

[The Damned]

I thought that worked with other characters as well? I know it works with Ike.

Holding down A works with everyone except for Ganondorf I believe.

Snake is easily high tier.

Potentially top tier.

His tilts are ridiculous.

As is his jab combo as well as his Bair and Uair.

Hey hey now.

*pushes EmblemLord out of thread*

No tier talk. It's barely been more than an hour since the game has been out for a week.


Anyway, I just got back from work like an hour ago, and I decided to test a little thing out with Snake...only to find out that apparently my Gamecube controller won't stop moving forward by itself. :confused:

This sort of explains why I keep killing myself...and it's not like it hasn't done this before, but it's seriously not stoping now.

Anyway, with the Wiimote, I tested that you can plant C4 on an enemy on both the ground (meaning while they're on the ground) and when they're in the air.

God, playing with the Wiimote is odd.

[EmblemLord]

Fuck that shit mo fucka.

Snake dog G is fuckin high tier nigga.

He uses his missile to blat blat that power thingy ma gigger ya heard?!



But seriously...if you can't see why Snake is good then you are blind.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

So, why is snake good?

He can't beat metaknight for shit. Like.......anyone that pays attention to the screen only really has to deal with his sub-par normals. Only 2 redeeming points about him are that is AAA actually can KO, and his dash attack is completely safe and cancels into mortars. Other than that he just seems sorta...eh.

[EmblemLord]

Snakes Normals >>>>>>>>>>>> MetaKnights.

Dead serious.

Also Snake not beating Metaknight matters little since Metaknight is goddamn cheater.

[DeathReaper47]

Also Snake not beating Metaknight matters little since Metaknight is goddamn cheater.

This. Metaknight is a cheating faggot :arazz:

[King9999]

Snake's up tilt is ridiculous.

[Capn Spanky]

A few things.
First, IIRC Snake's F-tilt knee attack can trip. AFAIK, the tripping is completely random. There is a tendency for larger characters to trip though. (Ike, King DDD, DK, Bowser.)

After tripping your opponent, you have a copious amount of time. Almost enough to guarantee a forward smash. Don't automatically follow with the Fsmash though, watch the reaction first.

Second, the Snake thread on Smashboards is filling up with info fast and is worth checking out.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=138992

Third, Snake vs. Metaknight is a tough match to call. Metaknight doesn't have very many overpowering normals, but his attacks build % really fast. If you can dodge you can win. The matchup is all about landing some Punch Punch Kick combos and watching out for his % building attacks. Play patient. The worst part of Snake's game is his recovery and it becomes VERY evident in the matchup.

Snake's Fsmash kills Metaknight for free at low % but you can only whiff it so many times before its GGPO. Metaknight's air game is way better than Snake's so try to keep things on the ground and very zoned out. If he takes to the air I would try to keep him out with some Nikita fire. While he's still far away get into your trap game.

Play smart play safe and play Snake.

[Kuprin]

Play smart play safe and play Snake.

This really sums up Snake. He's a very safe character. He can't zone quite as well as Pit, but he is definitely a zoning character, and he has a lot of power. Honestly he reminds me of ST sagat in that he zones well, then Tiger Uppercuts you when you get in. Sadly, fsmash is a little harder to land. ;)

Honestly, one of the nicest things about Snake is that he really doesn't have a single BAD move at all. Once you get used to him, you realize even his most situational moves will come out a few times in a match. Because of how things scale now, that right there will make Snake a lot better than characters like Mario, who have less flexibility.

[Septimus Prime]

How to "beat" Metaknight:

1. Hold a grenade.
2. Walk into him.

You are heavier, and you will win this war of attrition.

[Capn Spanky]

How to "beat" Metaknight:

1. Hold a grenade.
2. Walk into him.

You are heavier, and you will win this war of attrition.

Hahaha. Really, it's true. Problem is, no good Metaknight is gonna let you walk in. Nade cancel shielding is a great way to stop a Metaknight.
1. Cook a grenade.
2. Lure aggressive Metaknight in
3. Shield Cancel
4. Roll dodge
5. Repeat.

This will make him far less aggressive and allow you some precious time to plant your trap game. With two proper mines placed, you can use Nikita to keep him rushing in and Grenade drop to lock him out. Remember to Shield cancel drop your rocket so you can regain control before Metaknight is on top of you. If you get the timing down, try to cancel the Rocket so it drops onto Metaknight in the air. Free damage and it's safe. He'll have so much trouble getting in on you that he'll make mistakes. Then capitalize.

On another topic, it's already been said that you can plant C4 on opponents. What hasn't been mentioned is the mind games that go along with this tactic.

1. Stick and Immediate Detonation - Good for adding the % and doing damage. Very basic and not very threatening until you reach the high percentages.

2. 25 second waiting - Definitely not the smartest option, but still an EXCELLENT mind game. Stick your opponent and wait til the C4 gets rid of itself. Easy as that. This tactic will NOT work on n00bs. Why do you ask? A smart opponent that knows he is stuck will not jump. This is because if you detonate in the air you have a much larger chance of KOing your opponent. Losing the ability to jump can completely DESTROY characters. Then just detonate it randomly.

3. Jump detonation - name says it all. Your opponent jumps, blow it. KOs for all

4. Mine swapping. - I hear that in games of 3 or more people, (no 1 v. 1) it is possible to stick one player with C4 and have that player pass the C4, much like a sticky bomb. I know that this works in team games (stick your partner and have him hit the opponent.) It is still UNTESTED in FFA. (At least, I haven't done it.) The potential for this move is limited, but it serves its purpose in team tourneys.

If anyone disagrees, please feel free to say so. I'm trying to learn this AWESOME character just like everyone else.

IMO, he's like Brawl's version of Testament... without the Dress.

[EmblemLord]

I can vouch for sticking C4's on your partner in teams and letting him deliver the goods to your opponent.

Shit is nasty as hell.

[Septimus Prime]

Remember that you can drop C4 from the air. I actually use this a lot to sneak bombs all over the place.

[Capn Spanky]

Remember that you can drop C4 from the air. I actually use this a lot to sneak bombs all over the place.

Another good point. C4 rain. It messes some people up.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

2. 25 second waiting - Definitely not the smartest option, but still an EXCELLENT mind game. Stick your opponent and wait til the C4 gets rid of itself. Easy as that. This tactic will NOT work on n00bs. Why do you ask? A smart opponent that knows he is stuck will not jump. This is because if you detonate in the air you have a much larger chance of KOing your opponent. Losing the ability to jump can completely DESTROY characters. Then just detonate it randomly.

3. Jump detonation - name says it all. Your opponent jumps, blow it. KOs for all



Actually if you listen for snake to say "...now!!" you can use that as a cue to air dodge and avoid the explosion. He has a slight delay before he detonates it, so you have a little time to react.

As for snake having better normals than metaknight, that's gotta be a joke, right?

When I play snake, my biggest problem is handling an aggressive opponent. AAA seems like the only option to get people off, and if you're fighting someone patient, it doesn't really seem like snake can do much. Like if I'm fighting snake, i'll just stand back and throw his grenades back at him, and if I see him do a nikita, I use that as my chance to get in since they're easy to just flight mode around or air dodge through and begin the rush. I really wish he had better air normals for someone directly in front of him.

[Capn Spanky]

Snake still has a few air options. His bair is really quite strong and his fair is ok. His normals aren't as bad as you play them off to be. Maybe saying that Snake's normals were ALOT BETTER than Metaknight's was a bit extreme, though I think Snake does have an advantage, if only slightly. I'll do priority tests and the like in training mode, though it may take a day or two.

In response to your part about fighting against Snake, I wholly disagree. I think your strategy with Metaknight is very typical and expected. That explains how 2/3 of the Metaknights online try to get in on Snake. The way I see it, it's all about recovery time. If Snake fires Nikita to LURE Metaknight in, then cancels, then he'll be recovered soon enough to dodge and put Metaknight on recovery frames. Only a few people will rely on a Nikita shell that has already passed an advancing opponent. If you don't advance though, I'm gonna do what I can with the Nikita I have out.

Also, will airdodge cancel the damage of a stuck C4?

[Septimus Prime]

I think you can air dodge explosions, which is why I just drop them "randomly."

And yeah. Sometimes I'll fire a Nikita and cancel it immediately just to throw my opponent off-guard.

[The Damned]

Speaking of the Nikita, it can surprisingly be aimed diagonally (at least upwards--I haven't tried downwards).

It can be useful since the Nikita turns so slowly.

[Capn Spanky]

I think you can air dodge explosions, which is why I just drop them "randomly."

And yeah. Sometimes I'll fire a Nikita and cancel it immediately just to throw my opponent off-guard.

See? Sep does it, so I can't be crazy. Though, air dodging explosions takes good timing and good practice. It's still TOTALLY possible to combo your explosion. Get a stage knockoff then C4 detonate. Depending on how your opponent is stuck, there are different times to use it. (Because as far as I can tell, it is directional.) If the C4 is on the stage side of your opponent, detonate when they first begin their return to the stage and you should KO. If it is on the Abyss side of the opponent, wait for them to get a bit closer and time their triple jump with the explosion. After that C4 is gone, go back into Nikita Shenanigans until they get back on stage or die.

[Septimus Prime]

Speaking of the Nikita, it can surprisingly be aimed diagonally (at least upwards--I haven't tried downwards).

It can be useful since the Nikita turns so slowly.
Yes, you can aim it diagonally downward too. It's easy to do that from the air, though for me that usually happens when I flub a C4 drop. :bluu:

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Snake still has a few air options. His bair is really quite strong and his fair is ok. His normals aren't as bad as you play them off to be. Maybe saying that Snake's normals were ALOT BETTER than Metaknight's was a bit extreme, though I think Snake does have an advantage, if only slightly. I'll do priority tests and the like in training mode, though it may take a day or two.

In response to your part about fighting against Snake, I wholly disagree. I think your strategy with Metaknight is very typical and expected. That explains how 2/3 of the Metaknights online try to get in on Snake. The way I see it, it's all about recovery time. If Snake fires Nikita to LURE Metaknight in, then cancels, then he'll be recovered soon enough to dodge and put Metaknight on recovery frames. Only a few people will rely on a Nikita shell that has already passed an advancing opponent. If you don't advance though, I'm gonna do what I can with the Nikita I have out.

Also, will airdodge cancel the damage of a stuck C4?

Well, I think the advantage as far as normals goes is because of metaknight's speed, on top of the fact he's all disjointed hitboxes where as snake isn't. Meta can basically stuff anything snake does in the air or on the ground, so it's mostly just dodging explosions and not being dumb and rolling right into one of his attacks avoiding a bomb. It's tough getting in on snake, for sure, but once I'm in there with meta, I've noticed snake has a problem getting me off, if I'm alert and don't just recklessly attack, but still put constant pressure on him. Plus snake in the air is easy pickings, and meta's got plenty of tools to keep him there.

Also Metaknight's forward B can go right through nikitas, so I think it might be bad in that matchup. I've used it quite a lot just to plow into snake and get my offense started. I think grenades are probably the way to go as far as zoning and what not. Nikita seems more edge guardy to me.

[Capn Spanky]

Well, I think the advantage as far as normals goes is because of metaknight's speed, on top of the fact he's all disjointed hitboxes where as snake isn't. Meta can basically stuff anything snake does in the air or on the ground, so it's mostly just dodging explosions and not being dumb and rolling right into one of his attacks avoiding a bomb. It's tough getting in on snake, for sure, but once I'm in there with meta, I've noticed snake has a problem getting me off, if I'm alert and don't just recklessly attack, but still put constant pressure on him. Plus snake in the air is easy pickings, and meta's got plenty of tools to keep him there.

Also Metaknight's forward B can go right through nikitas, so I think it might be bad in that matchup. I've used it quite a lot just to plow into snake and get my offense started. I think grenades are probably the way to go as far as zoning and what not. Nikita seems more edge guardy to me.

Excellent points. The Forward B tidbit has never been used against me and I feel alot of Metaknight players don't even know that option existed. Now, I don't think Metaknight's ground game beats Snake's. I just think a Snake that has no idea what he's doing is going to run into alot of trouble. A good Metaknight rushdown will make Snake panic like crazy. Best advice I could give in this situation is simply GTFO Snake. Space and recover.

After I play the matchup more, I'd love to share knowledge, but as for now, I've offered all the tips I can.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Actually I just thought of something (not really in regards to just the metaknight matchup), wouldn't those new SRK PATENTED alpha cancels be really good with snake since his running attack is so good? I can totally picture someone just diving back and forth through someone without them being able to punish as snake.

[EmblemLord]

Snakes Bair, U-tilt, and F-tilt are disjointed and the hitboxes extend well beyond his body.

[Capn Spanky]

Snakes Bair, U-tilt, and F-tilt are disjointed and the hitboxes extend well beyond his body.

Snake's B-air is Scary. Very scary. Thanks for your contributions Emblem.

[Septimus Prime]

Yes, alpha canceling with Snake is a very good thing to do. Wave-bouncing (what a stupid name) with C4 would be useful too, I'd imagine, but not nearly as useful as alpha canceling.

[Tigerboi]

Down tilt has invincibility. Not sure ho many people know that.

[Septimus Prime]

Cypher also has super armor.

More importantly, though, I've found that you can save yourself from Peach's or Luigo's FS by just holding a grenade. You'll fall asleep, and then the explosion will wake you up.

[NeegroCancel]

The forward air is really good spike....i got the timing down for that move yesterday..the back air is a good killing move along with the up air...also planting C4's on people is always fun too! :rofl:


I havent even attempted to plant the C4 on someone yet..hell I'm still working on getting his F-air times right.

I'm in love with his F-tilt though.
I call it the Beat Yo Ass.

[NeegroCancel]

Down tilt has invincibility. Not sure ho many people know that.

It's true....Tiger and I figured that shit out yesterday.
I forget what move he did exactly..but I down tilted and the shit whiffed.

We both pretty much looked like this -----> :wtf:

[Raph_Stryker]

well congrats. Snake won it all at FR, just goes to show, David Hayter > Justin Wong lol

snake is so beastly

[Tigerboi]

Who used him?

[EmblemLord]

Snake is dumb.

I think Mike G. used him.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Mike G? As in the south carolina baiken player?

Also here's some nice ass tourney vids of Snake, gotta steal his strats: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152824

Also, where does down tilt have invincibility? Like right at the start or what?

[Ninja Wallace]

Just an interesting note, if you do Snake's running attack into someone, you can cancel into an up-smash at the exact moment you hit.

[The Damned]

Just an interesting note, if you do Snake's running attack into someone, you can cancel into an up-smash at the exact moment you hit.

You can actually do the up-smash regardless of whether or not you hit someone with his running attack, it's just way easier to do it when you hit someone.

Anyway, it does not really seem that useful of a tactic unless you're near an edge since Snake's Up-Smash seems to be one of the few moves of his that get beat out by a lot of (aerial) things.

[NeegroCancel]

Mike G? As in the south carolina baiken player?

Also here's some nice ass tourney vids of Snake, gotta steal his strats: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152824

Also, where does down tilt have invincibility? Like right at the start or what?

I'm sure it;s right after the initial hit. Like as he's spinning after the kick he can't be hit.
I'm gonna try it out again though and post it here.

[Jac]

I thought of new trick today while playing as snake. I was playing some team battles with some guys at the college when i accidently stuck a C4 on my partner so i told him to run towards the enemy so the C4 can stick on them and and blew their ass up! We tried it a few times and got some good kills using this :looney:

[Capn Spanky]

I thought of new trick today while playing as snake. I was playing some team battles with some guys at the college when i accidently stuck a C4 on my partner so i told him to run towards the enemy so the C4 can stick on them and and blew their ass up! We tried it a few times and got some good kills using this :looney:

Read page 2?

[Tam]

yo why doesn't anyone inform of snake's invincibility during his down tilt
that's super armor amirite?!

[The Damned]

Assuming you're not being sarcastic, that was reported just three posts above you, Tam.

Outside of techniques, I think it would benefit to discuss stages that benefit Snake as well since no stage is actually "neutral" at all (especially Final Destination).

I would say that my favorite stages to play with Snake that I think benefit him are Pictochat, Norfair, and Port Aero. He also seems to do well on Lylat and Battlefield.

[Septimus Prime]

I find that Spear Pillar is my best stage with Snake, since you have that bottom section that you can pretty much keep to yourself by setting down explosives. Otherwise, I feel that larger stages, like New Pork City, tend to favor Snake because those allow him to take advantage of his superior zoning and relatively heavy weight.

I hate small, platform stages like Smashville, Onett, and Final Destination.

[Jac]

Read page 2?

Ohh ahaha i didnt know it was already posted

[Capn Spanky]

I find that Spear Pillar is my best stage with Snake, since you have that bottom section that you can pretty much keep to yourself by setting down explosives. Otherwise, I feel that larger stages, like New Pork City, tend to favor Snake because those allow him to take advantage of his superior zoning and relatively heavy weight.

I hate small, platform stages like Smashville, Onett, and Final Destination.

I find it fun to play small stages. Really separates the Snakes from the Raidens.

New Pork City REALLY favors Snake though. Spear Pillar... I haven't had too much time on that one.

Ohh ahaha i didnt know it was already posted

No big deal. Just read the beginning of the thread first. SRK guideline.

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

Snake is a turtle :wgrin:

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

I thought of new trick today while playing as snake. I was playing some team battles with some guys at the college when i accidently stuck a C4 on my partner so i told him to run towards the enemy so the C4 can stick on them and and blew their ass up! We tried it a few times and got some good kills using this :looney:


Genius :rofl:

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I like stages like battlefield that are small with platforms. Reason being, you can plant a claymore on one of the 2 lower platforms and then turtle below them. People can't approach from the air and you can put some C4 on the ground level to guard that too. Also if you get a hit, it knocks them into the C4 on the higher platform, so it really pigeonholes people and makes it hard for them to approach.

Snake is a dirty bastard.

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Something gimmicky I've been fooling around with...

If you ever get a full charged mortar shot off, and there's not tons of platforms between you and said mortar, prime a grenade.

If you stand right where you launched the mortar, and your opponent attacks you, the grenade will explode sending them upwards many times into the mortar shell.

It's KO'd quite a few times and looks sick.

[KrsJin]

^ Haha sounds fun.

I've been using that mortor as space control when people return to stages or fall from above. I try to get a mine on one side of me, then mortor up, limiting their options for space. Idealy, I'd have a C4 one side, claymore another, then grenade handy but that's a lot of luck with that setup lol.

[EmblemLord]

Stop playing Snake.

He is GAY!

[Capn Spanky]

Stop playing Snake.

He is GAY!

No no no. That's Raiden. Snake is 100% no homo.

Emblem, you just need to main him to understand.

[KrsJin]

Stop playing Snake.

He is GAY!

Then slap my ass and call me Susie.
:lovin::lovin:

[EmblemLord]

But seriously Snake is easily top tier.

I played my friend today. His Snake is monstrous.

I used Marth.

I got wrecked.

Soooooooooooooo...yeah.

[Daemonk]

dude so far from boards and friends, a bunch of characters has been accused of being top tier. Its just a well balanced game IMO.

[Capn Spanky]

dude so far from boards and friends, a bunch of characters has been accused of being top tier. Its just a well balanced game IMO.

Pikachu, I ACCUSE YOU!

Anyway, Emblem, I still want to play you, and I would love to play some matches against this beastly Snake player.

What did he do that made him so great?

[EmblemLord]

He camped the hell outta me.

And it sucks cuz Snakes moves do quite a bit of damage.

I mean Marth can pressure better, but Snake has awesome punishers. So if I fucked up then I took alot of damage or he just killed me.

Plus it's hard to really gimp Snake.

He can do a charged U- smash and then pull out a grenade and let it cook. The mortar covers him so you can't rush, then he can roll back wich drops the grenade and puts him out of the blast radius.

Then he can get out another grenade. If you fuck up your approach and you are over 100 you will die.

Snake hits too fucking hard and his moves have retarded hitboxes.

I mean his f-tilt combo does 21%.

Shit is fucking ridiculous.

And you gotta deal with grenades, mortars, C4's and mines.

So you are taking blast damage here and there as well.

It's insane and gay and I hate him.

[EmblemLord]

I just tested Snake's range on his tilts last night.

His f-tilt has outranges Marth's f-tilt by an extremely small distance.

His u-tilt outranges Marth's u-tilt. Again the distance is very small.

Marth's d-tilt outranges Snake's d-tilt by a small margin.

When I say small I mean it. I'm talking so small it's negligible.

Snake's F-smash is equal in range to his f-tilt.

The second hit of Snake's f-tilt extend's even further, outranging all of Marth's attacks other then his shieldbreaker.

While we are at it though why not compare Snake's range to Ike's was well?

Snake's u-tilt > Ike's u-tilt.

Snake's d-tilt > Ike's d-tilt.

Ike's f-tilt > Snake's f-tilt.

Ike's jab > Snake's jab.

So Snake basically equals Marth in range and nearly equals Ike.

Thing is though Snake's F-tilt outranges Ike's u-tilt and his jab combo which are two of Ike's best moves.

Sucks for Ike. Hell sucks for Marth too, since Snake's f-tilt shuts down his range advantage.

Also Snake's Uair >>>>>>>>>>>> pretty much every Uair in the game. Same for his Bair. Not just in range, but power as well.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Hey, I was thinking, can't you hold down A with snake for rapid mash, and the moment it hits, it'll auto go into the 3 hit combo?

That's some hardcore zoning if it works like that, lol.

[EmblemLord]

Yes, you can do that.

And it's very lame and gay.

[Daemonk]

dude you are like really bitter about this

[EmblemLord]

I'm not bitter.

It's just bullshit.

[Chaos]

They should have known when they made the character that the ridiculous projectile moves would make him potentially unbalanced, why did they decide to give him a solid smash moveset as well? The up mortar just begs to be camped behind. Snake is a beast. Hey emblem if you wanna play some (non snake matches) let me know I'm ready right now.

[KrsJin]

They probably figured making his projectiles (Minus his mortar) able to damage himself was their way of balancing him.

Not sure.

[EmblemLord]

Or Hideo went up to Sakurai and was like," Yo make sure my nigga Snake is the fucking rape son."

And Sak said Oh yeah no problem bro.

Back door deals FTL.

[KrsJin]

You don't actually have to play this game you know? lol

[EmblemLord]

Yeah, but I got awhile till SF4 and SC4 come out.

[Chaos]

You complain about this and play SC? Dear god.

[EmblemLord]

At least with SC the creators acknowldge when they screw up and don't act like everything is cool when it's not.

Fucking Nintendo.

[PozerWolf]

Hey, how do you drop the grenade when your about to throw it?

I see people get the grenade out and immediately drop it on the floor and pick it up.

How do you do that?

[xS A M U R A Ix]

At least with SC the creators acknowldge when they screw up and don't act like everything is cool when it's not.

Fucking Nintendo.

Snake isn't that broke dude, stop buying into gimpyfish propaganda. He's balanced and good and his his own amount of cheese, just like everyone else in the cast. Snake winning right now is because people don't know how to deal with him yet. He's good but come on. He's not broke.

SC Xianghua was 1000000 times worse. And you play that game, lol.

[Septimus Prime]

Hey, how do you drop the grenade when your about to throw it?

I see people get the grenade out and immediately drop it on the floor and pick it up.

How do you do that?
Either press shield or press Z. You can't drop it straight down from the air, though, unfortunately.

[EmblemLord]

Why does his knee have an invisible disjointed hitbox?

Can you answer that question?

As for Xianghua well it depends which SC you're talking about.

Maxi was far worse in the first SC.

Everything he threw out gave like +2 frame advantage on block.

It was retarded.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Well mostly SC2-3. Hi let's give stupid pixie character that has a smaller hit box than everyone else but still hits harder a crouch grab! Why, we don't know!

Atleast snake is a cool character and not some lame ass saigon whore.

[Henaki]

snake is fun!

what can you do off throws if anything?

whats the best way to not get consistantly fucked over by up+b on final destination unless there really is no way if you're basically just under the ledge?

[Septimus Prime]

I've heard you can blow yourself up to get another jump, but I'm not exactly sure how. Hold a grenade until it explodes in your hand, I guess.

But, imo, Snake isn't too good on small platform stages like FD, since he's all about zoning.

[KrsJin]

^ I'll find a vid for it tomorrow if someone else hasn't posted it before then. You drop a C4 right below you as you fall and detonate it asap, then you can get your third jump back.

[EmblemLord]

If you are under the ledge you are fucked.

Down throw just sets up a guessing game.

After doing that I would just shield.

If they get in place you can shield grab, or drop the shield and attack with f-tilt combo, d-tilt, u-tilt, or jab combo. If they get up attack then you shield it then grab or shield drop to attack.

If they roll either way then shield drop to dash attack.

You will have to practice this, but with good reaction time you can really lock your opponent down and punish the actions they choose.

[Septimus Prime]

How are you guys doing tilts without initiating smash attacks? Half the time, the wrong shit comes out, and it's damn annoying, especially with f-tilt and f-smash. It's like I have to actually walk around for a while before I can consistently get the f-tilt.

[Henaki]

If you are under the ledge you are fucked.

Down throw just sets up a guessing game.

After doing that I would just shield.

If they get in place you can shield grab, or drop the shield and attack with f-tilt combo, d-tilt, u-tilt, or jab combo. If they get up attack then you shield it then grab or shield drop to attack.

If they roll either way then shield drop to dash attack.

You will have to practice this, but with good reaction time you can really lock your opponent down and punish the actions they choose.

Thanks I'll give that a shot next time I play.

In all honesty, FD seems fine to me once you get past the "his up+b eats multibutts" under the ledge problem. he has a lot more places to place bombs and control the map, which imo really limits any ground approach methods.

[spacemonkey1112]

Snake has so many cool moves but his style is different from all the other characters. I didn't play much melee, but for most veterans, they tell me that Snake is just too different for them.

Snake has a lot of moves, but he isn't cheaps. I mean seriously, his f-tilt smash takes so much time to take out. yeah it does damage but hey, if your opponent isn't quick enough to react, his lost.

I guess the gayest thing about Snake is his infinite Up-B. To do this, after you Up-B once, drop a C-4 and detonate it on yourself. This will cause you to be able to UP-B once more. Yeah it does damage to yourself, but you have to understand that as Snake takes damage, the higher his Up-B can go. (best way to avoid Lucario's Final Smash!).

Shield Canceling your grenade is so amazing! its the best defense!

A question for everyone. I understand that if you make contact w/ Snakes dash, you can cancel into his Up-Smash (the Mortar Slide). Has anyone has here been able to do this without making contact with your opponent?

I wish the brawl forum for shoryuken was more organized (like it is for 3s).

anyways, My brawl # is 2578-2805-2055 I would love to see how I play against other people. (I normally go 4 stock, no items; Final destination) PM me w/ your brawl #

[EmblemLord]

No.

Snake is cheap.

Accept it and move on.

[Ceirnian]

After playing today in a tournament in norcal, I now understand why EmblemLord hates Snake.

That is all.

[The Damned]

After playing today in a tournament in norcal, I now understand why EmblemLord hates Snake.

That is all.


There was a tournament...?

[KrsJin]

I guess the gayest thing about Snake is his infinite Up-B. To do this, after you Up-B once, drop a C-4 and detonate it on yourself. This will cause you to be able to UP-B once more. Yeah it does damage to yourself, but you have to understand that as Snake takes damage, the higher his Up-B can go. (best way to avoid Lucario's Final Smash!).



Not exactly an infinite now is it? lol

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Couple of things I found that I like doing with snake.

If I want room to breath, I'll launch a mortar and then do down smash to lay a claymore. The mortar covers you long enough to get the claymore in place, then you can start zoning.

You can plant C4 on a blocking opponent. You can even use it to punish rolls if they roll into you. Kinda leaves you open but once it's there, it's a free kill almost.

Charged mortar into up throw or keep them in the choke to let the mortar land on them is sexy.

f.tilt's first hit seems to have a lot of hit stun. Sometimes you can do f.tilt AAA for a combo or f.tilt throw.

Regular jump into immediate dair and cross behind your opponent is some nice safe shield pressure and the easiest way to land all the hits.

If you're getting raped in the air, just pull out a grenade and hold it. You can atleast trade hits with them and get some room to breath.

u.tilt is retarded anti air. It's hitbox is much bigger than you would expect, beats out most characters air approaches.

[Ceirnian]

There was a tournament...?

Yeah I found out about it last minute, it was in Santa Clara hosted by someone from the smash boards.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Was psycho midget there?

[Ninja Wallace]

You guys got any tips for playing Snake in the air? I have a hell of a time trying to get down on the ground safely without having my ass handed to me.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Air dodge / Grenade Jihad, don't bother attacking in the air unless they're in bair range.

[PozerWolf]

I beat someone at a tournament because a Diddy Kong player tripped right on my C4 as soon as I ignited it.

I had lots of lulz and it costed him the match ;o

[xS A M U R A Ix]

How awesome would it be if running over C4 increased the chance for people to trip, lol.

[kof4life]

Snake has so many cool moves but his style is different from all the other characters. I didn't play much melee, but for most veterans, they tell me that Snake is just too different for them.

Snake has a lot of moves, but he isn't cheaps. I mean seriously, his f-tilt smash takes so much time to take out. yeah it does damage but hey, if your opponent isn't quick enough to react, his lost.

I guess the gayest thing about Snake is his infinite Up-B. To do this, after you Up-B once, drop a C-4 and detonate it on yourself. This will cause you to be able to UP-B once more. Yeah it does damage to yourself, but you have to understand that as Snake takes damage, the higher his Up-B can go. (best way to avoid Lucario's Final Smash!).

Shield Canceling your grenade is so amazing! its the best defense!

A question for everyone. I understand that if you make contact w/ Snakes dash, you can cancel into his Up-Smash (the Mortar Slide). Has anyone has here been able to do this without making contact with your opponent?

I wish the brawl forum for shoryuken was more organized (like it is for 3s).

anyways, My brawl # is 2578-2805-2055 I would love to see how I play against other people. (I normally go 4 stock, no items; Final destination) PM me w/ your brawl #


If you're at a high percentage, though, the mine trick gets REALLY risky. Those things pack a punch, and if you're at around 100% you might blow yourself right off the screen.

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Was just reading over on Smashboards about a pretty interesting technique:

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4196617&postcount=1

Basically, if you throw a grenade and your opponent picks it up, you can prime another grenade and shield. Doing so will make your opponent drops his grenade. If they toss it at you, and you shield, it will drop like a dead weight onto the stage. The important thing is that this can only be done when there are two 'active' grenades out.

Let the mind games begin!

[Capn Spanky]

Wow. That's interesting. I guess I have one more thing to work on.

[PozerWolf]

Was just reading over on Smashboards about a pretty interesting technique:

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4196617&postcount=1

Basically, if you throw a grenade and your opponent picks it up, you can prime another grenade and shield. Doing so will make your opponent drops his grenade. If they toss it at you, and you shield, it will drop like a dead weight onto the stage. The important thing is that this can only be done when there are two 'active' grenades out.

Let the mind games begin!

Ah, yes.
I <3 doing this, especially when the opponent tries to be a hero and grabs the grenade as I'm ledge guarding, only to drop it down on the ledge they were trying to grab, lulz cakes ;o


Also, here is something I've been running into.
Whats going on is that whenever I would do a run A and do my up-smash cancel (which I'm sure everyone is familiar with by now), for some odd reason there has been times when I would do a running A and cancel my run with a shield, even after hitting the opponent.

i'm not too sure how I've been doing this, but there has been times when the opponent was at low percentage and I was able to chain throw right after it.

More testing is needed!!!!! ;o

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Snip

Hrm, neato. Keep us posted.

Also I was messing around with a tactic that is definitely not practical, but can surprise people once and awhile.

As you know you can cancel the Nikita, it drops straight down, and does less damage. If you get hit while controlling it though, the missile goes on the last known course it had before you lost control. The missile can also be redirected by projectiles and explosives around it.

Well I primed a grenade, shield canceled, picked it up, activated Nikita and piloted the thing straight up. The grenade goes off, I take damage, and lose control of everyone's favorite remote-controlled-missile. But then quite a few seconds later it plummeted back down onto the stage. You can even have another one out while waiting for the first one to drop. Is it worth the damage you take from your own grenade? Absolutely not.

Sure is fun though.

[PozerWolf]

Well I primed a grenade, shield canceled, picked it up, activated Nikita and piloted the thing straight up. The grenade goes off, I take damage, and lose control of everyone's favorite remote-controlled-missile. But then quite a few seconds later it plummeted back down onto the stage. You can even have another one out while waiting for the first one to drop. Is it worth the damage you take from your own grenade? Absolutely not.

Sure is fun though.
I remember playing a match against a friend of mine on FD, and I had sent out the Nikita by mistake instead if flying back on, close to the left side of the stage. With that said, it flew straight up into the air at a VERY slight angle, close to the stage.

Well, about 45 seconds into the match, my friend was ledge guarding me after knocking me out with something random, only to eat the missile I launched 45 seconds ago.

I had lots of lulz.
Snake is more random than tripping, lol ;o

[Deth-Scyanyde]

I remember playing a match against a friend of mine on FD, and I had sent out the Nikita by mistake instead if flying back on, close to the left side of the stage. With that said, it flew straight up into the air at a VERY slight angle, close to the stage.

Well, about 45 seconds into the match, my friend was ledge guarding me after knocking me out with something random, only to eat the missile I launched 45 seconds ago.

I had lots of lulz.
Snake is more random than tripping, lol ;o
OMFG make a vid showing this...FREEEEE!!!!

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Man this is golden, @ 1:08 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzg6XwMOfUA

Haha.

[Insomniac487]

Man this is golden, @ 1:08 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzg6XwMOfUA

Haha.


That was epic :smokin:

[Fatal K.O]

Happened to me once too when I was fighting a CPU Fox. I'm surprised you guys didn't already know the box can spike.

[PozerWolf]

Happen to my friend once when we were playing in a custom made.
I shit gummies as I laughed.

[Zero-SR388]

Man this is golden, @ 1:08 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzg6XwMOfUA

Haha.
Hah!
I would be so pissed if that was me!

[SlikVik]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=x6fO3tWnAws

This match is crazy. Especially the ending

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Very situational Infini-grab, originally posted over on Smashboards by Cecilanius:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs6sxaAJpiM

Someone was asking if it would be possible to fastfall to the ledge. I don't know the answer myself. Pretty sweet nonetheless.

[omfg]

eh? not to launch this thread into a tier discussion about Snake, but when I came to this thread I expected to read the stuff that makes him "undoubtedly top tier". he's extremely slow in the air and can only really do battle well while grounded, unless he doesn't have to account for his aerial lag (ex. edge guarding). is it his power of his attacks and grenades that shape your opinions on Snake?

that one vid has shown me that grenades can be used pretty well though. didn't know that I was the only one who thought of this.

[Statistics]

eh? not to launch this thread into a tier discussion about Snake, but when I came to this thread I expected to read the stuff that makes him "undoubtedly top tier". he's extremely slow in the air and can only really do battle well while grounded, unless he doesn't have to account for his aerial lag (ex. edge guarding). is it his power of his attacks and grenades that shape your opinions on Snake?

that one vid has shown me that grenades can be used pretty well though. didn't know that I was the only one who thought of this.

Think Guile from Street Fighter 2. If Snake's controlling space with his projectiles, he's winning. And if the opponent tries to close the gap, Snake's uber-high priority disjointed hitbox attacks will keep them away.

[PozerWolf]

Very situational Infini-grab, originally posted over on Smashboards by Cecilanius:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs6sxaAJpiM

Someone was asking if it would be possible to fastfall to the ledge. I don't know the answer myself. Pretty sweet nonetheless.
Haha, nice.

Thing is tho, when your flying you can actually air dodge and IIRC you can avoid throws during an air dodge.

Could be wrong.



Also, Snake is damn good.
Broken? Maybe.
Badass? Yes!!

[kesh!]

Yeah, I'm working on infinite grab...'setups' so far the best is on their recovery. Using mines, smash up a you can force them to either air dodge earlier into your grab or just force them to eat a mine.