Dat Metaknight

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

having only played this game a few times I can surely say that metaknight is good material, but he really lacks K.O. power. combos come fairly easy too.
lets discuss him please:woot:

[mastermind]

I break B buttons with my tornados. :rofl:

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

I break B buttons with my tornados. :rofl:

can that move be used to keep good spacing?

[mastermind]

I like it. Decent recovery. Wouldn't rely on it as a dedicated spacer, though.

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

ahhh I see. how is down smash. also what moves would I want rely on if I have my opponent in a high percentage and want to K.O. them since he lacks a little :sweat:

[orochizoolander]

I main him and it's safe to say he is the akuma of brawl! great offense but terrible defense he gets KO'ed starting around 70%:sad:

IMO it's a fair trade off because he can rack up damage very fast, alot of his attacks (mainly fair, nair, and tornado) have great priority, he's fast, and he has gdlke recovery.


General tips:

-spam tornado alot it does alotta damage and cleanly beats out most attacks even a few projectiles like samus's missiles (don't forget to tap b during it).
-Spam short hop+fair it's a great offensive tactic anytime and the best way to chase opponents off the stage
-use neutral A as a defensive tactic it has a large hitbox in front AND behind (if you do it against a wall it's an infinite:badboy:)
-down smash is his best KO move use it when u get them above 100% it's also a great launcher to start combos i suggest following it up with up smash or up tilt.
-side B is nonpunishable at max distance think of it as claws rolling crystal flash (don't forget to aim it down at the end).
-his best KO moves are down smash and forward smash.
-After you find shuttle loop's sweet spot try to catch opponent's off guard with it it has surprisingly good knockback.


Overall meta knight is one of the better characters that's alot of fun to use but has a difficult learning curve because getting hit over 70% is usually a KO more often then not so be aggressive but when u get to higher %'s use hit and run tactics.

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

^ very helpful sir.

[EmblemLord]

Metaknight is a cheap ass bitch.

I love him.

[orochizoolander]

Metaknight is a cheap ass bitch.

I love him.

How is he a cheap ass bitch? he gets KO'ed easily at 70% :rofl:

What exactly do you think is "cheap about him"?

[EmblemLord]

Ummmm.

Very fast. Good priority. Good range.

That tornado beats almost everything in the game it's retarded.

Great at building damage.

If you are dying at 70% somehting is wrong.

With good DI he lives to about 100% to 110%.

He can easily chase people off the stage and force them to airdodge which can screw up thier recovery if they aren't high.

His F-tilt combo is a solid natural combo.

His d-tilt is a great spacing tool. It has IASA frames and it can make opponents trip so he can geta free d-smash after it or a free grab or a free f-tilt combo.

All his specials double as recovery moves.

All of his aerials are beastly and useful.

Yeah, he is a cheap ass bitch.

[orochizoolander]

Ummmm.

Very fast. Good priority. Good range.

That tornado beats almost everything in the game it's retarded.

Great at building damage.

If you are dying at 70% somehting is wrong.

With good DI he lives to about 100% to 110%.

He can easily chase people off the stage and force them to airdodge which can screw up thier recovery if they aren't high.

His F-tilt combo is a solid natural combo.

His d-tilt is a great spacing tool. It has IASA frames and it can make opponents trip so he can geta free d-smash after it or a free grab or a free f-tilt combo.

All his specials double as recovery moves.

All of his aerials are beastly and useful.

Yeah, he is a cheap ass bitch.


-He gets consistently KO'ed starting at 80% (90 is pushing it) even with DI against most characters smashes so please make a youtube vid to prove me wrong.
-Other then shuttle loops his B moves leave him very vulnerable.
-In the air he feels slower and much floatier then other characters AKA less maneuverable.
-He can't KO easily even his best kill moves (down and forward smash) seem to fall just short of KO'ing more often then not.

He's a great character with alot of strengths but also has his share of obvious weaknesses to keep him well balanced. If you think meta knight is cheap then what do you call santhrax? or claw after knockdown? or a-groove bison+blanka with meter?

The word "cheap" needlessly gets thrown around so often here on SRK so unless your referring to hammer bros or O.sagat then don't call anyone cheap. I thought u might have been joking but judging from your last post you honestly believe him to be cheap AKA game breaking AKA unfairly too good...i think eddie from GGAC would like to have a word with you:wink:

[EmblemLord]

Wait.

There seems to be some misunderstanding here.

Do you think that I think being cheap is bad?

Dude...being a cheap ass bitch is awesome.

[orochizoolander]

...Yeah lets just go with that:looney:

Anyways it's very interesting that brawl has such a well balanced cast yet is still very matchup heavy, for MK I think our worst matches are against anyone with good recovery because it negates any knock back MK can do


EDIT: I just found out we can do neutral A combo into FS:looney:

[Ceirnian]

-He gets consistently KO'ed starting at 80% (90 is pushing it) even with DI against most characters smashes so please make a youtube vid to prove me wrong.
-Other then shuttle loops his B moves leave him very vulnerable.
-In the air he feels slower and much floatier then other characters AKA less maneuverable.
-He can't KO easily even his best kill moves (down and forward smash) seem to fall just short of KO'ing more often then not.



Oh hell no

- You must mean the heavier characters getting a nice solid hit off, because Metaknight does not die consistently at 80% unless you get hit by one of those.

-His other b moves are very good for recovery. Did you know that his forward B consistently beats out certain projectiles, and he goes through them to hit the opponent? Also if you are slightly under the stage the ending animation will pop you up and back abit, which means you can grab onto the ledge more easily.

Down b can be useful for recovery, but mostly only for edge grabbing. I've sometimes managed to bait someone into trying to attack me near the edge as I was coming back so I can teleport behind them... but yeah thats rare and I still haven't explored it enough.

-Metaknight slow in the air? Oh hell no, this little ball of awesome is able to chase people down in the air extremely well. His forward air is pretty good, but his up air is AMAZING when you are chasing someone above you. His down air covers an arc to his sides, and his nuetral air (if placed right) is actually a good killing move. His movement is abit floaty but his priority makes it so that he can rush towards someone and take them the fuck out in the air. Also with so many jumps I'd say he's plenty maneuverable.

-First off his forward smash is pretty bad, it lags too long for my taste to be considered a good kill move. His down smash is in fact his greatest kill move... even when someone is only in the 80's. Why you ask? Because it knocks them off the stage where he can then hound the opponent down and finish the job. It feels like a setup / kill move all in one, I make sure to abuse it whenever I see an opening on the ground.

-I agree that he can't KO easily in the normal sense, but he isn't that bad off.

[edit] I want to add that I agree with Emblem Lord, everything he mentioned in post #10 is very spot on to my experiences with the Knight.

[orochizoolander]

I haven't really noticed who I was playing but on wifi all day today when I use MK if i'm over 80% and they get a clean hit on me not matter how fast I DI i'm dead I remember a good rob player bair'ed me to death when i was at 75%.

I don't use forward B that much unless i'm far away enough so I don't get punished if they shield it but i'l test out it's priority later today.

I meant after he uses a B move in the air he just feels very vulnerable and IMO fair is a better KO move then uair though neither is that great in general.

IMO forward smash is his best kill move next to down smash because it actually kills decently:rofl: but overall I feel uair is only good for combo/racking up damage NOT KO's but i'll test it out later today to be sure.



Hit me up later today for some MK vs MK action.

[Ceirnian]

up air is mostly for racking up damage yeah, but you can also up air into a forward air, or up air into shuttle loop clean hit. It's pretty versatile, but off the edge I only use it when they are above me and I really can't use his other aerials.

[orochizoolander]

Uair into up B is a great KO move unfortunately it's kinda risky since you can't cancel the glide immediately:sad:

[Tigerboi]

+Meta's down smash is possibly the most disgusting move in the game. Comes out as fast as his N-a's and kos with little to no trouble at all.
+ Reach reminds me of marth's from melee.
+ Has little to no lag on alot of moves.
+ Tornado has STUPID priority (it stopped a fucking hammer. I'm serious)
+ N-a has long reach, good priority, wide attack radius.


Fuck meta knight. He's cheap as fuck.

[mastermind]

Now that I'm starting to get the hang of the mechanics of the game, I'm really liking the shorthopping NAir and FAir. Way too easy to start pressure.

I like staying in the air for a long time, but I obviously can't do much after Shuttle Loop. Any advice for properly gliding and floating around the stage without risking a lot?

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Lessee....I'm maining metaknight, and I gotta agree with what's been said. He's quick, high priority, lacks killing power, and is a little light, but makes up for it with amazing recovery. Here's some of my tricks you guys haven't mentioned yet.

+ Spacing fair at max distance and then DIing away from them if they shield is completely safe from shield grab.

+ Gliding A has INSTANT landing recovery. If you do it low to the ground, you are in standing state ready to attack. If it hits at low percentages, it can combo into things like Down Smash, and if they block it, you can just throw them.

+ You can do his jumping glide to gain some horizontal movement speed. He is very slow in the air compared to a lot of characters like wario, so if you need to close the gap in the air, glide up to them, and either jump out of it or do Glide A into more attacks since it recovers instantly.

+ Jump uair combos into itself. Once they DI too far away for another to hit, finish with fair or up B.

+ Edge guarding is the way you kill with metaknight, don't be scared to jump off the side and chase someone. If they try to come back from low, hit them with nair or dair. If they try to come back high, intercept them with up B and immediately cancel and fall back down to the stage. If they try to hang on the ledge, hover over them and when the invincibility frames are gone, you can nair them to spike them off the side of the level.

+ dair has a sweet spot on the very starting and ending points. It sends at a low horizontal angle, so abuse that shit. You can also short hop instant dair for pressure and spacing.

+ In a wake-up situation, you can use short hop dair to easily hit people wherever they may roll. If you're attentive, you can punish them in ANY way they try to get up. Hit them at the end of their roll or standing up animation when they are vulnerable.

+ dair is also extremely safe. You can do it out of a shorthop and then jump up and do it again. Your opponent can't punish it because you never land.

+ Another way to avoid getting shield grabbed in the air is to cross over someone. dair as you jump behind them or nair for a completely safe approach.

+ You can do neutral dimensional cape from the ledge to regrab it and stall, and maximize your invincibility frames.

+ The trick for doing dimensional cape's follow up is to release B after the initial teleport, then press it again and hold it down. The attack isn't that great, but it can be used to get out of dangerous air situations. Say if you're out of jumps and someone is approaching you from below, dimensional cape under them before you get hit and then reverse the situation.

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

Metaknight 101 (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=123840)

[Septimus Prime]

So...what are MK's bad match-ups? I'm having a lot of trouble fighting against him with any of my characters.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I'm not sure he has any. Marth might be able to fight him head on, but Meta's still faster. Generally he has trouble killing the really really heavy characters though. DeDeDe's been the hardest for me. Great recovery AND super heavy.

[white shadow]

His D-tilt at low-moderate %s combos flawlessly into his Instant Dash Cancel attack, it's almost like he was made for it.

[orochizoolander]

I'm not sure he has any. Marth might be able to fight him head on, but Meta's still faster. Generally he has trouble killing the really really heavy characters though. DeDeDe's been the hardest for me. Great recovery AND super heavy.

Yeah heavy characters don't get knocked back as far so that takes away some of MK's advantage, also chracters with good range (especially marth) have a pretty sizable advantage over him.

Look at my post at the top of the page there's 2 links to what MK's bad matchups are from smashboards:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=151630&page=8



MK has an especially hard time against ike, marth, snake, and to a lesser degree wario but otherwise there isn't anyone who has a significant advantage over MK.



BTW if your having trouble KO'ing use forward smash it is by far his best kill move though it has a slow startup (well whatever slow is for MK:rofl:) but it kills very well over 90%, and his shuttle loop is a great KO move as well so don't spam down smash for KO's.

[Penguin]

I'm not going to go into all the explanation of it, (because I dont like teaching other people my strats mostly)..... But fellow Metaknights, I give you one important Metaknight insight.

Glide attack.
Its amazing.
It has such amazing priority, I've never seen a single move directly beat it, only clash with it.
If you do it as you land it has no lag. Meaning you will beat out shield grabs.
It's also your BEST vertical KO move.
Learn your glide mechanics.
Thats all I'm going to say.

[EmblemLord]

Glide attack kills better than D-smash.

WTF

[orochizoolander]

^^ The startup of shuttle loop is a great KO move as well.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

You can do shuttle loop backwards as well and it'll knock the opponent straight horizontal away. It's spacing is tricky but it's worth learning since for one, you're in flight mode going back towards the stage, and if it hits, it can KO REALLY fast because of the angle.

I'm reading on smash boards that people think MK is a bad matchup for Marth. Like, he counters marth. Apparently all your normals are almost as long as his, faster, and generally just shut him down. That's good to know.

Honestly the only character I've ever had any trouble with is wolf because of his blaster and retarded pretty good range on normals. AI don't think Metaknight has any true "counter" characters, truthfully. Heavy characters are all too slow to compete with his speed and they're bigger targets meaning easier to combo. Projectiles seem to be his biggest issue of getting around, really.

[orochizoolander]

You can do shuttle loop backwards as well and it'll knock the opponent straight horizontal away. It's spacing is tricky but it's worth learning since for one, you're in flight mode going back towards the stage, and if it hits, it can KO REALLY fast because of the angle.

I'm reading on smash boards that people think MK is a bad matchup for Marth. Like, he counters marth. Apparently all your normals are almost as long as his, faster, and generally just shut him down. That's good to know.

Honestly the only character I've ever had any trouble with is wolf because of his blaster and retarded pretty good range on normals. AI don't think Metaknight has any true "counter" characters, truthfully. Heavy characters are all too slow to compete with his speed and they're bigger targets meaning easier to combo. Projectiles seem to be his biggest issue of getting around, really.


Where did you see on smashboards that marth counters MK? Read my post at the bottom of the last page and you'll be directed to the GG thread where I posted 2 links from smashboards bout everyone including the mod (gimpyfish) saying marth has a sizable advantage over MK.

MK has priority but it don't mean shit against marth's range and KO power especially considering the low %'s MK gets KO'ed at but it's not a total mismatchat all I would say marth wins 60-40.

[Animeko]

U-throw, down B, glide attack.... Yeah I'm pretty much in love with Meta Knight. :D

[Makoto Scrub]

Just in case you guys havent seen yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-vqKEY68Y

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Just in case you guys havent seen yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-vqKEY68Y

Here's a nice video of some of those techniques used in actual matches. Plus some other bad ass edge guarding techniques:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0OL2H-bKUI

[orochizoolander]

:badboy:^^^Nice find I can definitely make use of that.:badboy:



Anyone need help or just want to see a beastly MK then add me (1160-9541-8692).

[denjin]

Does anyone else have to wait a fucking hour before seeing things on the smashboards?

Does MK have a wall of pain?
Is there a video of it?
Are there good match videos of MK? (I've seen some bad ones.)

[denjin]

Good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh2d7Sl155s
VERY AGGRO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NcAJBUpugs

[KMD]

Does anyone else have to wait a fucking hour before seeing things on the smashboards?

Does MK have a wall of pain?
Is there a video of it?
Are there good match videos of MK? (I've seen some bad ones.)

Yes (side and up)
Look up Na7han on Youtube. I think Gimpy does the up WoP in a few vids as well.
Look for recent tournament vids, UMB and ITP's are good.

[orochizoolander]

Good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh2d7Sl155s
VERY AGGRO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NcAJBUpugs


As a gannon player myself I was impressed how well he did against mk:sweat:

I don't mean to sound elitist because that's a good mk but it isn't anything special. Why didn't he spam tornado in those matches? Tornado spam alone gets me at least 50% damage off each of my opponents stock, in fact most of the time it gets to an upwards of 100% or more and if you time your tornado to make the very last hit of it (the long one) hit then it knocks the opponent back making it unpunishable (and sets you up to do another tornado):badboy:

Note that tornado spam frustrates the hell out of the opponent and can make them play noticeably worse:rofl:

Not spamming tornado is like not spamming tiger shots with o.sagat...ok that's not true considering mk is still a beast without tornado (thanks to SH far, nair, upB, dsmash, n fsmash) but you get my point. Tornado spam is so safe (as long as you know how to keep it going and mix it up between short tornado and otg ones) it's practically free damage against anyone and not using it is simply handicapping yourself IMO.

Since we're on the topic of spamming, drill rush is a great move to spam against characters who have swords or projectiles because the tip of the drill goes through SOME projectiles (i'm not going to tell you test that shit out for yourself bum) and it beats out the range/disjointed hitboxes of sword attacks. I use it as a great spacing tool and it's easily spammable as long as you remember to direct the drill to the ground at the end to negate it's terrible recovery, (finding the balance between hitting the opponent as much as you can with drill while still being able to go downwards with it before it ends is KEY). Also worth mentioning is that although you always want to point drill downwards towards the end, SOMETIMES you can and should risk hitting the opponent full force with the drill but only if you're 100% confidant that you can. Because If you hit the opponent with the very last hit of the drill then it does really good knockback especially at higher %'s but remember only commit to drill when they are at high %'s (over 100) and when you know you will hit them, otherwise you're a sitting duck for them to take all the time in the world they want to counter you.

We all know shield countering the most stupidly powerful tactic in this game as the person who shields gets frame advantage over the person who attacked (most of the time) so if you spam tornado too much they will get wise to it and start shielding. Once they start shielding tornados is when you bring in use of dthrow or you can let them shield for a second and not do anything and THEN use tornado so it breaks their shield:badboy:


Remember; spamming tornado, SH fair, and shield+dsmash counter is your best friend. Hope I was able to help.

[denjin]

Yes (side and up)
Look up Na7han on Youtube. I think Gimpy does the up WoP in a few vids as well.
Look for recent tournament vids, UMB and ITP's are good.

KMD, sorry, man. I can't find anything. The only MetaKnight I saw was off of a "Na7han" search and it wasn't by "Nathan."

Are there specific videos that you're thinking of?




I've heard repeatedly that MK is super powerful, but shouldn't there be a flux of WAYY too many MK vids by now? ("Cable good! Me play Cable!" "Me play Cable, too!")


@orochizoolander: What is SH fair? Also, what about gliding after the drill? (Or is that only the Up B?) Good shit, I'll have to dig through all of it.

My experience has always been that blocking a projectile is the best way to go. I'll consider the tornado tactic.

[KMD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J7h7a3P9J0
Here's something of Gimpy's that I'm currently watching.

Na7han is an account, sorry about that. The Metaknight section on SWF (sacrilege, I know) can help better than I can on this front.

SH is Short Hopped, can't glide after the drill or the tornado. He goes into the freefall animation afterwards.

[Oroman]

After playing Zoolanders MK for a quite a few days now I'm convinced that MK is invincible during his tornado. No attacks can get through the sides, and from what I've seen he can't be hit out of the tornado from the top. I've "keyed" him several times with G&W, and it get's blocked while I get sucked in.

You rock zoolander; my G&W can hardly keep up anymore :rofl:.

[orochizoolander]

After playing Zoolanders MK for a quite a few days now I'm convinced that MK is invincible during his tornado. No attacks can get through the sides, and from what I've seen he can't be hit out of the tornado from the top. I've "keyed" him several times with G&W, and it get's blocked while I get sucked in.

You rock zoolander; my G&W can hardly keep up anymore :rofl:.

LOL thx.

Actually the top of the tornado is the most vulnerable, and a few things can go through the sides of it (like marth's shield breaker). The key your referring to is gnw's dair right? Well it CAN'T go through tornado even from the top anytime you did it was because you hit me before the tornado animation started.

[beatsofdevil]

that side b drill has horrible startup/priority...use sparingly...but otherwise, MK is a lovely beast :D

[orochizoolander]

that side b drill has horrible startup/priority...use sparingly...but otherwise, MK is a lovely beast :D

I think it has great startup and AMAZING priority IT GOES THROUGH HALF THE PROJECTILES IN THE GAME!

Like I said before against anyone with a projectile or a sword you will be using this A LOT.

[denjin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J7h7a3P9J0
Here's something of Gimpy's that I'm currently watching.

Na7han is an account, sorry about that. The Metaknight section on SWF (sacrilege, I know) can help better than I can on this front.

SH is Short Hopped, can't glide after the drill or the tornado. He goes into the freefall animation afterwards.

Good quote about "tiering" EVERYTHING. Heh.

Anyway, on topic: That video is pretty damn good. Also, I've been wondering if Gimpyfish is Gimpy. I guess I got my answer.

How good is SH slash on a guy as short as Meta? In that video, the move seems to miss a lot. The only thing that seemed to connect (not the tornado, by the way), was that groundsmash. Not sure which direction it was, but Gimpy gets pretty much all his kills with it.

[Oroman]

LOL thx.

Actually the top of the tornado is the most vulnerable, and a few things can go through the sides of it (like marth's shield breaker). The key your referring to is gnw's dair right? Well it CAN'T go through tornado even from the top anytime you did it was because you hit me before the tornado animation started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QNB4wMH3PU&feature=related

Now what am I supposed to do? :lol:

[CapMaster]

So I just started playing this guy, he's way too much fun. It's either kill or be killed with him. What else should I do with him besides tornadoes?

[orochizoolander]

So I just started playing this guy, he's way too much fun. It's either kill or be killed with him. What else should I do with him besides tornadoes?

Read my longass post above it might help.

In general you want to be aggressive because mk is very good at dealing lots of damage and he's fast so use that to your advantage. The best approach is SH fair IMO it's his best move because it's very fast, recovers fast, has a big hitbox, it's usually safe if shielded, and does very good knockback so you should spam this a lot using it as your main way to get in your opponents face. Dash attack is also a good approach because it launches them in the air which is where mk wants to be, it's important to get the momentum going as in once you hit them you keep pressuring them with more quick hits.

After you get them around 100% you can start using your kill moves (dsmash, fsmash, nair, and upB) Remember if you use a normal move too much it gets weaker in damage and knockback so try to mix it up.

I could go on and on about what to do and what not to do but the mk threads on smashboards explains it much better then I ever could check there.

[denjin]

MK tornado usage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47QIkWGPm7c

It does seem quite safe. So...was Gimpy "going easy" on the other guys? Is Olimar "bad" at defending/countering the tornado?

(By the way, Gimpy loses this match. Still good to watch.)


Edit:
Discussion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMvGPfGjb_g

I want to play MK so that I harass the shit out of the guy when he's off the ledge. What does Gimpy "do wrong" here?

[BrentoBox]

No one seems to mention this about Mach Tornado (I don't know why) but it beats out the usually invincible recovery move off the edge.

Just hit it as you see them start to move off the ledge, and you will always beat out their attack.

[orochizoolander]

No one seems to mention this about Mach Tornado (I don't know why) but it beats out the usually invincible recovery move off the edge.

Just hit it as you see them start to move off the ledge, and you will always beat out their attack.

That's cuz we all just assume tornado beats out 99% of all moves in brawl:rofl:

[Shade]

I hate fucking Meta Knight.

[BrentoBox]

That's cuz we all just assume tornado beats out 99% of all moves in brawl:rofl:

No Shit. Metaknight is a blue beast.:rofl::lovin:

It still seems like the kind of thing you would mention in a tutorial or a move faq though.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I feel cheap playing metaknight now. I love the character but christ. Tornado + all his pokes are just too good. Dude has no bad matchups.

[Oroman]

I feel cheap playing metaknight now. I love the character but christ. Tornado + all his pokes are just too good. Dude has no bad matchups.

The only match ups that might give him a hard time are Marth, and Snake....maybe. Both of them are top tier, go figure. The only way to beat Meta Knight is to take advantage of his low weight. Projectile spam is meh, since he can just tornado out of it.

[Ceirnian]

I still don't think tornado spam is all that good, it can be beaten from my experience. Hell you can even shield grab it.

[edit] I should say, I don't think tornado spam should make you feel cheap when playing Metaknight since there are ways around it.

[Oroman]

I still don't think tornado spam is all that good, it can be beaten from my experience. Hell you can even shield grab it.

[edit] I should say, I don't think tornado spam should make you feel cheap when playing Metaknight since there are ways around it.

How do you shield grab it?

[xS A M U R A Ix]

If you space it right, isn't it impossible to punish? Like if you go in and they block it, either go behind them or pull out? That's usually what I try to do.

[Ceirnian]

I dunno ask Zoo, when I was fighting him sometimes I'd shield grab it. Also if you DI correctly you can get a fast dair out to disrupt the tornado even if you get hit with it. This is MK vs MK though.

[Oroman]

I dunno ask Zoo, when I was fighting him sometimes I'd shield grab it. Also if you DI correctly you can get a fast dair out to disrupt the tornado even if you get hit with it. This is MK vs MK though.

Oh well that explains it then :lol:. Normally when I try shield grabbing I get sucked in anyway, but I guess MK is the only one who can do it.

[Wil]

yo orochizoolander, i haven't been playing SSBB for a while now but i'm going to start playing a bit more next week.

i'm slowly learning MK. he is slowly becoming one of the most hated characters i have found so far in this game. :rofl: good shit though. i don't mind playing him and i might actually use it in a SSBB tournament that is happening tomorrow at some anime convention. either him or pikachu would be my choice since it is a 4-player FFA instead of 1v1.

i'll be back next week and hopefully i have improved. :sweat:

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Alright so, stepping our MK games up.

I kinda feel like skill is leveling off for me, not learning too much now as far as metaknight specific stuff is going, but I have been trying to learn what's good in what matches and what stages favor MK. I'm not entirely sure what stage I like the most right, possible luigi's mansion Halberd (for flying under the level to attack)or FD, but I know that Skyworld is TERRIBLE for metaknight. If they have a projectile, they can just stand under the bottom platforms and spam and you have no way to approach from the air. This is particularly hard vs characters like falco, so by all means, avoid this stage if you can.

[Ceirnian]

Luigi's mansion is so good for metaknight, not too sure what stage would be best after that though.

[Somnus91]

I'm having a hard time recovering after killing someone off of the ledge with Up B. Supposedly there's a way to reverse it? Lol, I just fall short every time I try? Are there just times where I shouldn't use Up B to edgeguard? Any thoughts?

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Speaking in guilty gear inputs, assuming you jumped off the right ledge, try 7B instead of 9B and you'll fly back towards the stage instead of away from it. If you don't go too far from the ledge though, you can do it either way, glide up some and then just DI towards the ledge. If you want to do the reverse up B, you can hit them and make them go backwards by doing it either when they're at your back directly next to you, or above you where the part of his loop where he's upside down would hit.

Up B has like 4 different sweet spots depending on where you hit with it that does different things. It's pretty versatile.

Hope that helps some.

I have trouble landing up B online. I use it to kill all the time in person but it's just hard to space it right with lag for me. I dunno why.

[orochizoolander]

I hate fucking Meta Knight.

LOL you mad.

No Shit. Metaknight is a blue beast.:rofl::lovin:

It still seems like the kind of thing you would mention in a tutorial or a move faq though.

The mk tutorial sticky on smashboards is very helpful and tells you to spam tornado as often as possible.

If you've seen other tutorials that don't mention anything about tornado spam at all then the person in that tutorial vid must a bitch ass noob that thinks it's cheap.

I feel cheap playing metaknight now. I love the character but christ. Tornado + all his pokes are just too good. Dude has no bad matchups.

Cheap? You feel cheap playing a character who can get ko'ed at 80% against the majority of the cast and who has a harder time then most deliverign the ko blows himself? (at lower %'s of course.)

"Cheap" is a word that gets thrown around so often in all fighting games and most of the people who call something cheap don't even understand what it really means. IMO "cheap" means anything that is blatantly game breaking, so if o.sagat's fb's are just on the verge of broken according to sirlin then no way in hell is tornado cheap, it's just a very good move and like ceir said it can be beaten.

It sounds like your impression of mk being cheap is just you being confused with the fact that he is a fairly easy character to pickup and use.

The only match ups that might give him a hard time are Marth, and Snake....maybe. Both of them are top tier, go figure. The only way to beat Meta Knight is to take advantage of his low weight. Projectile spam is meh, since he can just tornado out of it.

Emblem thinks snake completely rapes mk, damned thinks it's an even match or that snake only has a slight advantage, and I think snake dominates mk but not completely like emblem thinks because if mk gets in his face he has a small chance.
IMO snake has a huge advantage over mk for these reasons:

-snake has to be above 150% sometimes over 200% to get ko'ed by mk while snake can ko mk as early as 50% so it's an uphill battle from the start
-if i stay far away then snake has time to setup traps, use nikita, or throw grenades
-if i get too close his ftilt and aaa rapes me (since they beat out every move in the game even tornado) or he can just hold a grenade in his hand blowing us both up
-from my experience the only way to get consistent ko's is to sweetspot upb during snakes cypher, but it has super armor on startup so u gotta time it right

The bottom line is that mk has to work A LOT harder then snake to secure a kill. IMO marth is mk's second worst matchup and although marth out ranges the hell outta mk especially with dancing blade and tippers this match is nowhere near as bad as snake. The recovery gods "rob n pit" have a moderate advantage over mk as well because their recovery negates mk's ability to chase and knock them off screen like he could against everyone else, also their projectiles are annoying. I have a hard time against ike sometimes because quickdraw and super armor on nova make it hard to approach him the way i do with everyone else.

I still don't think tornado spam is all that good, it can be beaten from my experience. Hell you can even shield grab it.

[edit] I should say, I don't think tornado spam should make you feel cheap when playing Metaknight since there are ways around it.

Yes you can shield grab it (if you shield at the exact time the tornado starts then tornado ends before your shield breaks) , tornado spam doesn't work on every character jus letting yall know.

If you space it right, isn't it impossible to punish? Like if you go in and they block it, either go behind them or pull out? That's usually what I try to do.

Actually tornado is very easy to punish (if you mash b to get tornado otg then mk is completely vulnerable on the way down), I just have a simple trick to make it seem like tornado is impossible to punish for most of the cast heh.

I dunno ask Zoo, when I was fighting him sometimes I'd shield grab it. Also if you DI correctly you can get a fast dair out to disrupt the tornado even if you get hit with it. This is MK vs MK though.

If you see tornado coming it's easy to shield punish, but remember not everyones dair can disrupt the top of tornado for example tl and gnw's dairs get EATEN by tornado:rofl:

yo orochizoolander, i haven't been playing SSBB for a while now but i'm going to start playing a bit more next week.

i'm slowly learning MK. he is slowly becoming one of the most hated characters i have found so far in this game. :rofl: good shit though. i don't mind playing him and i might actually use it in a SSBB tournament that is happening tomorrow at some anime convention. either him or pikachu would be my choice since it is a 4-player FFA instead of 1v1.

i'll be back next week and hopefully i have improved. :sweat:

GL and let us know how it goes and who everyone uses my guess is 99% marth+ike dickriders.

Luigi's mansion is so good for metaknight, not too sure what stage would be best after that though.

Delfino plaza is great for mk, any level with platforms like battlefield is good, walkoff stages like bridge of eldin are good for mk too since you can use drill to push ko your opponents offscreen just remember to aim it down towards the end. There have been so many times where I got baited into doing drill rush and then my opponent jumps so i ko myself by drilling offscren:rofl:

I'm having a hard time recovering after killing someone off of the ledge with Up B. Supposedly there's a way to reverse it? Lol, I just fall short every time I try? Are there just times where I shouldn't use Up B to edgeguard? Any thoughts?

If you want to ko with the initial loop of upb without going far horizontally then HOLD UP THEN ENTIRE TIME, and mk will move less then 2 inches forward while still doing the full loop.




That's just my 2cents.

[eddymasta]

I need some matches against MK's. I haven't learned the match up at all yet

[xS A M U R A Ix]

On cheapness: Mainly against certain characters that don't really have an answer to tornado, I feel sort of like a jerk for using it, like most of the lower tier characters and ESPECIALLY Olimar. But you're right, most fights feel like an uphill battle with MK so I should never really feel cheap using him. Especially online when people can do unsafe shit and get away with it thanks to lag or land lucky blows because I can't react fast enough with the lag on top of my reaction time.

On Snake: I think it's a hard match, but I also think getting snake in the air is key. You can punish AAA or f.tilt if you're quick with shield grabbing as well, and you really just have to stay out of u.tilt's range when he's on the ground till you get him off his feet. Once he's in the air and you're in front of him though, he doesn't have any good aerials to stop your rush. b.air is the only real threat and that's unsafe so he has to take a risk to use it if you're behind him. If snake is holding a grenade though, just let him hold it or run up and throw, or attack with something with such a large hit box you avoid the blast radius. Your hit box actually has to touch the grenade for it to work, so d.tilting helps in getting hits in when he's waiting for you to attack the grenade. It's just a high stress fight though because you really can't make any mistakes at all.

On Marth: IMO this is MK's hardest matchup after playing Emblem Lord. It's by no means impossible to win though, but marth out spaces you and kills you WAY earlier than you kill him, as well as counter stopping a lot of your pressure, so you have to play a lot different vs him. I got tippered at 50% on FD and died. That shit ain't fair. I guess I can't say it's that awful though since I won just as many if not more matches than he did, but god damn, too much work. I find snake's poking game a lot easier to beat than marths, and I think marth can kill you earlier than snake can kill you, so that's why I would put him above snake.

[orochizoolander]

On cheapness: Mainly against certain characters that don't really have an answer to tornado, I feel sort of like a jerk for using it, like most of the lower tier characters and ESPECIALLY Olimar. But you're right, most fights feel like an uphill battle with MK so I should never really feel cheap using him. Especially online when people can do unsafe shit and get away with it thanks to lag or land lucky blows because I can't react fast enough with the lag on top of my reaction time.


No offense cuz I don't mean you specifically but this is the same bitchass attitude all scrubs of fighting games have, it just doesn't fly sorry. If i'm chipping honda to death in the corner with o.sagat's fb's does that mean I have an overwhelming advantage? yes and does that mean it's cheap or that I should feel cheap? HELL NO the best moves will always be abused to victory that's just the nature of fighting games everyone should just learn to deal with it

I really don't understand this mindset at all, in any fighting game if I beat someone abusing a single move I can understand how that would frustrate the opponent but for him/her to bitch me out and call me cheap? please nigga that's just an excuse scrubs use to cover up for their own lack of skill. What end result do people with that mindset want? If I beat someone using tornado spam then in the scrubs eyes a "fair and not cheap fight" would be for me to voluntarily handicap myself by NOT using tornado? :lol:

You want cheap? try gill vs twelve then we can talk.

[Oroman]

No offense cuz i'm not talking to you specifically out but this is the same bitchass attitude all scrubs of fighting games have, it just doesn't fly sorry. If i'm chipping honda to death in the corner with o.sagat's fb's does that mean I have an overwhelming advantage? yes and does that mean it's cheap or that I should feel cheap? HELL NO the best moves will always be abused to victory that's just the nature of fighting games.

You want cheap? try gill vs twelve then we can talk.

QFT! Apparently xSamuaraix hasn't tried beating a Chun player in 3rd strike with Oro:lol:. The thing is....the person who you're spamming against will figure out a way to get past it. If the person you're playing against doesn't know how then it's his or her fault. There are plenty of attacks that can get threw that whirlwind of bullshit; almost all the characters have something that can stop it (With the exception of Olimar.)

Edit: Shit! quoted the wrong person rofl.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Haha yeah I should just shut up and be ruthless about it. They'll figure a way around it and if they don't, I deserved to win.

On another note, I might try to post some of my vids of my MK soon and see what you guys think.

[EmblemLord]

lol@ Samurai saying MK vs Marth is hard and stuff.

It's somewhat tough for MK. No big deal.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Well, no other character out ranges him as much and can counter his pressure. Plus like I said with the tippers, you can kill him at retardedly low percents. I dunno, what advantage do you think meta has in this matchup other than his recovery?

[EmblemLord]

Oh, I know Marth has advantage in the match-up. I just don't think it's MK's worst match that's all.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Ahh ok, fair enough, lol.

On another note, BigJonStud posted one of our matches online, what do you guys think of the MK? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJl1nUXICAI

[margalis]

Tornado spam can't be that good because I don't see it happening at all in high-level play, and they can't all be doing it wrong. Works great against scrubs like me though.

[orochizoolander]

^ Just exactly how much "high level" play footage is out there?

LOL jk but seriously just because you don't see others using it doesn't mean it's not that good, tornado spam is a very good tool for racking up damage and against some it works against others it doesn't. It's just one small part of mk's overall tool box-o-win, I love tornado spamming to death but in all honesty tornado doesn't hold a candle to mk's other much better attack options such as SH fair/nair approaches, dtilt and ftilt combo harassment, drill rush through some projectiles, upb kills, recovery shenanigans, and of course his mighty air combos/pokes.

dsmash>everything.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

dsmash>everything.

Truth. It even beats out other metaknight's tornadoes.

[omfg]

I heard a lot of people say that Meta Knight's B-neutral is a great way to build up damage safely. ...how the fuck does this build up damage safely. I don't play Meta Knight and I don't want to main him, but I've tried using this move and I got my ass kicked every single time. In fact, using it caused me to lose 2 stocks. Sometimes, Meta Knight doesn't even hit with this and gets punished. I think I fought better using sword only..

edit: on a side note, I hear that his B-up is absolutely excellent for KOs. anyone perfected a way to use it?

[orochizoolander]

^^Post up your brawl code and i'll show you how tornado builds up lots of damage safely, mine is 1160-9451-8692.

His upB is his best kill move once you get learn to sweetspot it consistently which shouldn't take more then a few matches or so to get down.

[omfg]

alright. I'll get with you at some point

[orochizoolander]

So whats ur brawl code? it's not posted in the code sticky.

[omfg]

1547-5202-1719

[orochizoolander]

You should geti n the brawl irc sometime, everyone is always there including me so just tell me there or pm me whenever you want to play.

Anyways back to the topic on hand snake rapes mk:Sad:

[Somnus91]

I hate the snake match up so much...
I gpt a snake to 200 percent, which means he made a ton of mistakes, and FINALLY kill him (after continually shuttle looping past 150 percent)
The snake killed me at 40 percent because I made one mistake (wtf)
That's the worst that's happened to me within one game, but still, the matchup between MK and snake is just ridiculous.
We need moar stratz lul.

[orochizoolander]

I know it's really tempting to spam shuttle loop for the kill especially against snake when he cyphers but IMO you should use shuttle loop sparingly. Remember the damage and especially knockback of a move greatly decreases the more you use it and this is especially noticeable between the first and second time you use a move. So try to save shuttle loop till snake is at least 120% and if it's the first time using shuttle loop it should kill him.

Snake is not only mk's worst matchup but IMO one of the most lopsided matchups in the game because mk's inabilty to ko+his ability to be ko'ed at low %'s+snakes ability to ko at low %'s+snakes ability to not be ko'ed even at high %'s= mk having to work 5782138921 times harder then snake.

That being said this match isn't unwinnable if you play what I call "smart aggression" because if you stay far away snake can rape you with trap setups while throwing grenades which have ridiculously large hitboxes upon explosion and nikita is hard to avoid when traps are setup. But if you're too close to snake then he can aaa, ftilt, or suicide grenade you away which hurts u ALOT more then it hurts him so even close up it's hard to win. Staying far away is an automatic loss so get in his face and don't give him anytime to setup traps or throw grenades at you and once you're in his face you must get him in the air because that's where you have the advantage and that's when you can kill him.

So just be aggressive but not too aggressive cuz he still can hold grenades, rape him in the air, once he's above 120% only then should you use shuttle loop to kill him while he's recovering with cypher and you should have at least a chance of winning:tup:

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Interesting, this was posted on smash boards on the "list of spikes" thread:

Metaknight

F-air;
Spikes: At the tip, during the last slash. Very difficult to sweetspot.

I've seen it happen before but I thought it was bad DI. I must master this.

[orochizoolander]

Yeah I've done it 2 or 3 times before on accident, IMO the 3 slashes come out way too fast to be able to spike with it consistently, and besides it's much easier to spike with nair.

[JoeMasters]

There was one night where I mastered spiking with it kinda. Then I couldn't do it anymore..

Whats IRC mean? Or what is it?

[Shadow Ace 50]

tornadoknight........

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Yeah I've done it 2 or 3 times before on accident, IMO the 3 slashes come out way too fast to be able to spike with it consistently, and besides it's much easier to spike with nair.

nair doesn't spike does it? Unless you mean stage spike.

[orochizoolander]

LOL yes nair can spike.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

how? >_<

[orochizoolander]

I'm sure you know landing a "deep" nair does much more damage and knockback then a nair thate barely connects, it's either the 2nd to last hit ot last hit of a deep nair that spikes. The first few hits of a deep nair usually knock the opponent to far back to get hit with the ending hits of nair so it's hard to time.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Nair's only 2 hits though, you've got the nice deep one and then the shitty further out one. Do you have to space it a certain way to get it or something?

[orochizoolander]

I've never done it intentionally just a few times by accident but it is possible just not realistic to be able to "master" IMO.

[Ceirnian]

The only times I've seen nair spike is when the person is hanging on the edge, their invincibility runs out when I do a nair slightly above them. At least... I think that's when I see it.

[Shadow Ace 50]

I usally dont ask in these threads.....but

how do you effectively wield down B? is it used in meta-gaming?or is that another style of play
I rarely see it when facing dem knights..

[xS A M U R A Ix]

It's super situational super unsafe super hard to land. I only do it in very very very rare occasions, maybe to avoid a projectile spammer or whatever when someone will be remaining stationary for a while. Still a shitty move though. The non follow up one is good for movement / landing / grabbing the ledge, though.

[JoeMasters]

It's super situational super unsafe super hard to land. I only do it in very very very rare occasions, maybe to avoid a projectile spammer or whatever when someone will be remaining stationary for a while. Still a shitty move though. The non follow up one is good for movement / landing / grabbing the ledge, though.

I like to do it as a random combo follow up/mix up. Seems to confuse my friends. I dont abuse it though. I find it useful.

But fuck top tiers ^_^

[Oroman]

I like to do it as a random combo follow up/mix up. Seems to confuse my friends. I dont abuse it though. I find it useful.

But fuck top tiers ^_^

Joe get on IRC so I can play your ass.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

So I somehow beat Yeb on shadow moses island this week in the tournament when he was playing snake. I know that level is traditionally thought of as a counter level to MK but it's not. Let me teach you guys the trick.

As you know, Snake gets upwards KOs SUPER easy on MK. With those normally being the only option on that level, there's a way to avoid this. MKs nair does TONS of damage to structural objects, so go to the top floor of the level and nair 3 times on one pillar. You can do this all in one jump. The top should break, leaving the bottom. Do this on both sides. Now you can kill with d.smash and d.air and up B again, so the fight is MUCH easier. This also makes it so he can't kill you with f.tilt on the bottom floor, and you can use wall teching to keep yourself alive. The maps actually not all that bad for MK once you get everything set up. The pillars won't respawn unless both floors are broken, so if snake gets wise to what you're doing, hit him while he tries to tear it down.

Don't ever let anyone try to counter pick that level on you again, lol.

[Ceirnian]

down b (dimensional cape I think it's called?) isn't very good, but sometimes I will catch people with it after they are coming down from getting launched. Hitting someone with it half the screen or more while in the air KO's pretty well.

[JoeMasters]

Joe get on IRC so I can play your ass.


Sorry, fell asleep straight through the tourney :/ I play the next one for fun though. I'll hit you up with a PM tommarow and we can play some casuals.

@xS A M U R A Ix: Am I on your friends list? I have about 3 people with a name relativley close to the word Samurai:confused:

Anyone find uses for MK's psycho crusher? I couldn't find any so far accept to beat out projectiles.

[Ceirnian]

f-b is really good to beat out shields too. If you do it close enough and aim for the ground, you can hit their shield enough so that the drill still hits their feet. Also it's a really really REALLY good recovery move, I can't stress this enough. There are times when you are out of jump and are falling to your death, if you to f-b you can reach the edge from amazing places.

Another way I use f-b is to do it when someone tries to wait for me at the edge, when people are spamming projectiles so I do a TK f-b, and even if someone is at the very top of the screen with you up there as well you can f-b and direct it up, hitting them for a low % kill.

There's more you can do with it but that's just some of the ways I end up using.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Sorry, fell asleep straight through the tourney :/ I play the next one for fun though. I'll hit you up with a PM tommarow and we can play some casuals.

@xS A M U R A Ix: Am I on your friends list? I have about 3 people with a name relativley close to the word Samurai:confused:

Anyone find uses for MK's psycho crusher? I couldn't find any so far accept to beat out projectiles.

f-B can done off the ground to get in above someone who's projectile spamming like wolf. It can combo into d.smash or throw if the person likes to guard afterwards. It's also good on recovery as a surprise attack.

And no, don't think I've added you.

[imasloen]

I've been having a lot of fun playing MK because he feels really natural to me. I think it's mainly because he's so damn easy to pick up. Anyway, I wrote this up for anyone who's looking to play him:

Don't: fsmash, fwd b, down b
Do: everything else

Seriously. Go nuts. But if you want a better idea, here's what I've got:

Approach:

The tornado can run through a lot of projectile spam, which is nice. It's also an irritatingly difficult to punish. However, it really doesn't do a whole lot of damage, especially when spammed. Don't spam it unless it's simply to annoy your opponent (which it can be very effective at doing).

Grab a lot. Metaknight's dash grab is the shit. I normally use a dthrow and try to follow them with a fair or upsmash out of dash right after, but I've seen people who like other things. Also, I sometimes fthrow or bthrow if I think I have a chance at gimping them off the edge. Also, dtilt to grab as a tick throw works pretty well too. Mix it up with dtilt into ftilt or dsmash or something though.

MK's dash attack isn't to bad either. Works well with dash grab as a mixup, because it's difficult to tell what you're going to do. You can always upsmash out of your dash as well if that fits the situation better.

Well spaced fairs are always nice. It's pretty obvious, but difficult to punish if you land out of grab range. If you ever accidentally land in grab range, you can try MK's crazy jab to get out of it, since MK's aerials have so little lag. It's no shine, though.

One more thing, uair juggles pretty well with itself if you just hold up and mash A. MK will jump and uair again after each uair. When your opponent DIs away, or you realize you're out of jumps, chase them and end it with a fair or up B.

And, of course, play spacing mind games with your jumps. Oh, and cstick your aerials so you can have an easier time spacing yourself. Also, this is obvious, but if your opponent seems roll happy, space yourself in front of them and downsmash as they roll into you or chase them with a grab if they roll backwards. Consequently, this is why you shouldn't be roll happy yourself.

Defense:

MK has a good number of options out of shield. As said before, you can tornado through most projectiles. If you find your opponent grabbing you a lot, you most likely aren't being offensive enough. Space yourself against an attacking opponent with ftilts and dtilts. However, if you shield an attack you can:

Shieldgrab. Know the range of your grab and if they're in there, this is usually your best option. MK seems to have an extremely quick shieldgrab (though most characters do). Make sure you do it as soon as you can or you might get interrupted.

Jump cancel and aerial them. This can work and is sometimes your best option, but it's not the quickest so I only do it if I have to. Fair and bair are the ones I use most.

Shield drop and downsmash. Shield drop and anything, really. Ftilt works nicely as well, but be careful not to accidentally fsmash because the lag on that attack with get you killed. However, I find myself dsmashing a lot. It's quick, has nice range, and gets them out of your face. The only disadvantage of this option is the diminishing knockback on the move, as this also happens to be MK's most useful killing move, in my opinion. If you couldn't guess, MK's dsmash is just a wonderful move overall.

Up B out of shield. Incredibly cool looking when you do it, however, I wouldn't do this unless you think it will kill, or at least have a chance of killing. Otherwise, you're just lowering it's knockback for when you want it to kill. It has surprising range, though, so sometimes it could be your best option. Be careful with it though.

Finishers/Edge game:

The main killers I've been using are dsmash, shuttle loop, and nair/dair for gimping. Possibly fsmash, but that shouldn't be hitting unless your opponent screwed up and whiffed a move or something. Typically, you'll be using dsmash in place of fsmash as it's so damn quick. Just throw it out whenever you think it'll hit: punishing whiffs, out of shield, punishing rolls (shouldn't happen against good players).

Up B takes a little more set up. Generally, you'll want to be doing it out of shield to punish something, but it's also a very nice follow up to an uair juggle. Since they're already high in the air, it should have an easier time KOing them as well. Another thing I've seen done is dthrow to shuttle loop. Dropping underneath a platform as someone lands on it and shuttle looping can work too. I've had some success dashing in with this, but that's not really a very smart option and just me trying to look cool so I wouldn't recommend it.

As for gimping, if I get them off the ledge, it really depends on where they are. If they're above the stage, I'll use fairs/nairs to continually knock them back. Then maybe reverse up B back to the stage like a Marth and hope it kills. If they're below the ledge, I use dairs/nairs instead and do the same kind of thing. Whether or not this is effective is generally dependent on the character. Some characters are much more easily gimped than others.

Getting back to the edge:

With multiple jumps and air dodges and the shuttle loop, there's no reason you should ever get gimped off the edge. If someone ever tries following you out there, up B in their face and they should learn that shit quickly. Try and get them with the back end of the up B too, as it'll send them in back of you and will either kill or turn the tables and set you up for an edgeguard. Also, always use the glide attack when coming back to avoid that ugly landing animation. You can use the tornado or forward B to return to the stage safely also on an opponent waiting to knock you back out there but the glide attack generally gets the job done. If you decide to sweet spot, you can play some mind games with your opponent by dropping down and quickly up Bing in their face which works for me a lot even though it's so freaking obvious.

I'm tired and I'm not sure why I'm posting info on Metaknight because everyone knows how to play him anyway. If anybody has any critiques, I'd love to hear them, as my Metaknight could certainly use improvement.

[ServBot'sTronBonne]

I haven't played in awhile, but when it first came out I wasn't playing anything else. I love Meta Knight, he's fucking bad ass. He's got great hits, and he can save his ass out of anything (I'm talking about getting kicked/bumped/thrown off the level).

Plus his costume colors. fucking sick. :lovin:

[Ceirnian]

Don't: fsmash, fwd b

Fail

[orochizoolander]

Fail

yes:rofl:

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Yeah f.smash is awesome if you charge it. No start up time at all. Use it as they approach and then let it rip when they're in range. Shit's deadly. Rapes other tornadoes too.

d.B has it's uses too, and f.B is nice for recovery. So yeah.

USE EVERYTHING. Cept Neutral A. That shit sucks.

[residentwaterfowl]

His jab flurry is like the ONLY laggy attack MK has. Makes no damn sense. I hate it so much yet I keep doing it on accident.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

It's punishable on hit. That's just retarded. They could atleast make the first flurry guaranteed or something =/

[Waks]

I hate his neutral A ;_;

I usually use ftilt instead. It has a decent knockback to boot.

[imasloen]

Yeah f.smash is awesome if you charge it. No start up time at all. Use it as they approach and then let it rip when they're in range. Shit's deadly. Rapes other tornadoes too.

d.B has it's uses too, and f.B is nice for recovery. So yeah.

USE EVERYTHING. Cept Neutral A. That shit sucks.

I agree for the most part, but I was generally just trying to give a basic idea of what's safe for players new to MK to use. There are definitely situations where the fsmash is useful, but too often I see people new to MK throw it out way too often as if it were Marth's. Didn't know it stops tornadoes though. =)

And yeah, fwd B is more useful for recovery than I first thought.

I really can't get much good to come out of d. B though =\. Even if I hit with it, it always seems like there was a better option available. Any tips on using this?

[orochizoolander]

Any yall who play mk get in the irc chat so we could have some mirros.

[Waks]

I really can't get much good to come out of d. B though =\. Even if I hit with it, it always seems like there was a better option available. Any tips on using this?

Maybe, getting quickly to the edge? I mean, hog it. XD Though at some point, I think doing off the ledge and quickly smashing the stick to the opposite direction seems quicker. I dont know x_x

And you can use it for recovery too.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Fellow MK spammers, today is a great turning point in the Snake vs MK matchup. I impart to you all....

METAKNIGHT'S CERTAIN KILL SNAKE EATER IZUNA DROP HIDDEN TECHNIQUE

The application is simple. Spam tornado at Snake till he gets wise and tries to grenade counter. Snake has to drop the grenade and pick it up for this to work. Now, instead of tornadoing, run up and grab him. Try to get the feel for the timing on the grenade. Once you've got it, UP THROW. The grenade will detonate when MK leaves the screen and kill snake instantly.

TEAM VERSION SUPER SECRET SNAKEKNIGHT COMBINED TECHNIQUE OF THE ANCIENTS

Have snake as your partner and have him plant a C4 on your back. Grab someone. Have snake detonate the C4 as you up throw. Your victim dies instantly.

Use this secret technique well, my brothers! And remember to scream JIHAD!!!!!!!!! when you do it.

[roninwarrior24]

Yeah Meta Knight is officially broken now. That is, if this is allowed. (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182532)

[Ceirnian]

Why hello there new way to show off in front of people!

[CStrife187]

MK now has an infinite stall that keeps him invincible and invisible the whole time. see smashboards for details.

Down+B is now useful again

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Metaknight is my hero.

Edit: that shit is impossible to do NVM.

[Ceirnian]

Infinite stall my ass, keeping it going for even 5 seconds is rough. There is a method to the madness though... I got better at it after about 15 minutes of messing around. Once you find the rhythm it's not as bad.

[Oroman]

Yeah Meta Knight is officially broken now. That is, if this is allowed. (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182532)

Now what am I supposed to do?

:rofl:

[CStrife187]

if you use the wiimote+nunchuck setup it's possible to set smash to up on the d-pad making it much easier to mash

also, you don't have to mash it as fast as possible, there's a certain timing to it that makes it much easier. Longest anyone's been able to go so far AFAIK with the standard 'cube controller is just under 2 minutes, making this a good stalling technique, and a darn good approach as well.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

OK I got this for 20 seconds, now I'm never doing it again. I have to resposition my hands to do it. It's WAAAAAAAAY too inconsistent to even consider.

[DanielRGT]

Holy fuck I need new thumbs. Tried this out yesterday and got it working, but at my own expense.

[Lobelia Mk. IV]

Tbh, I wonder if the Smashfags will end up banning this new glitch. I mean, does Meta Knight really need it, for starters? And if he does, isn't he good enough without it?

[DanielRGT]

Tbh, I wonder if the Smashfags will end up banning this new glitch. I mean, does Meta Knight really need it, for starters? And if he does, isn't he good enough without it?

He honestly doesn't need it one bit. In fact if it whiffs (as it's not allowed to be used for a stall), allows him to be punished pretty easily.

Plus, like we all mentioned, it makes your controller cry.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I mean if people could actually do it for 7 minutes consistently (which they can't), then it might be something to worry about. You could just tornado up to them, get a few unblockable hits out of it, run to the other side of the screen and vanish. Do dimensional cape for 7 minutes and you win. People can't do it now but human execution will never stop amazing me. Give it time and someone will have it down 100%.

So for that reason, it should be banned. Although I wish it was easier to do. I really don't feel like working my controller that hard, so I'm probably not gonna learn how to do it consistently.

[alphazealot]

OK I got this for 20 seconds, now I'm never doing it again. I have to resposition my hands to do it. It's WAAAAAAAAY too inconsistent to even consider.

Same, though more like 10 seconds, and never twice in a row. Reposition hands FTW

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Same, though more like 10 seconds, and never twice in a row. Reposition hands FTW

haha yeah I've never gotten it on the first try either.

My real question is.....

HOW THE FUCK DID THEY FIGURE THIS OUT?!

I'm going to start doing random moves and mash directions on the C-Stick and see if something funky happens.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Gonna write an advanced Meta-Guide now for you guys, since I'm bored.

ADVANCED PLAY METAKNIGHT

Alright by now you know how to play meta. You know what his moves do, you know their ranges and all that, but now you need more. There's a lot more to winning with MK than just knowing how to tornado and how to sweet spot and up.B. Here are some notes on his moves and matchups that I think might be helpful.

u.tilt: This move is REALLY underrated among metaknight users. It's definitely his best anti air move, it's got a huge hit box and lots of active frames, not to mention it's disjointed so it will stick through a lot of things. In fact, the hitbox is so big that you can beat out a lot of character's "ass slam" down B type moves, like yoshi, bowser, and dedede (up B). Try to keep someone above you on a platform and pressure them with this. If they drop through they get hit. if they don't block they get hit. If they do anything except block, they probably get hit. This move can also kill at higher percents if you haven't been using it so don't neglect it. Especially on upper platforms, you can easily kill around 100% if you're at the top platform of BF.

f.tilt - This move actually is a lot better than I thought it was initially. I use this as my main ground approach when trying to space certain characters. If you approach slowly and wait for them to whiff / attack and then block, this move is wonderful. It's got a lot of range and it's fast, and it also sets up for air combos. At low percents you can hit with this then run up and grab, it's very sneaky. Instead of using d.smash on the ground and for punishes, WORK THIS INTO YOUR GAME. It does more damage and it saves move decay on down smash for actually killing.

d.tilt - d.tilt trips people up and also has a ton of range. I like to use it after a short hop f.air to sneak it in there. If it connects, often times you can run up and throw even if they didn't trip and get it in. People have the tendency to block after being hit by this move. If they trip you can get a free throw up close or a free f.tilt. Use this at max range to frustrate someone and force them to jump.

f.smash - Originally, I thought this move was ass. I still think this move is ass, but it's got some winning points to it I didn't initially see from before. For one, it has slow start up. This is actually good. MK has TONS of other practically instant moves, so if your opponent is spamming spot dodges, place this where you would normally place another attack and it will usually hit them as they come out of spot dodge. The other thing is that ALL the start up is in the charge animation. When you release the button it comes out in 1 frame. It's got a lot of priority and because you never use it, it kills at high percents. It also beats out tornado and a lot of other moves, so standing back and doing it when someone is about to approach and then releasing as they get in range is a good way to hit with it. It's also good to use as someone is landing from an air dodge, charge it and hit them right as they touch the ground. Also note this move has 0 recovery so you pretty much have frame advantage after someone blocks this.

d.smash - the back hit has a sweet spot on it, and also hits harder than the front portion. Try to land this to kill someone.

Up B - This move has a ton of sweet spots. If you use it with them to your back in the air, it hits them behind you, as well as with them above and slightly behind you. Directly in front of him and at the peak of the front arc as the best spots for horizontal and forward kills. Another thing of interest is that up B on the ground is considered a different move than up B in the air and move decay applies seperately. Up B on the ground kills Vertically, so use it around 120-140% to get those kills if you haven't been using it. Also something of interest you can do is ground up B, glide attack as you land and then ground up B again. This is very difficult to beat for most characters and just standing there will force them to get hit eventually. Sneak it in there every now and then.

d.air has a sweet spot below and to the side of mk at his front. Try to space it when you edge guard with it so you can get some early kills.

n.air - this move has a ton of active frames, use it to kill air dodges and spot dodges. It also KOs well when you use it inside a person and has 2 hits. You can short hop it and still have time to d.air before landing, n.air again, or jump and continue air shenanigans. Work it into your game vs dodgey people, or use it vs. someone hanging on the ledge to get a ledge spike.

ADVANCE TORNADO TECH

Tornado is practically an unbeatable move for many characters. Knowing the approach with it and knowing when to use it will really improve your win ratio with MK.

For one, doing tornado at ground level leaves you open. The weak point of the move is around the base in the bottom-ish area. A lot of characters can hit you out of it if they direct a move at this spot, so if you jump up and then do it, it's suddenly impossible to beat out. A good example of this is vs DK, as when you do it at head level or so, he suddenly has no moves to beat it out with.

Also note that as shield's shrink, if you make it so the only portion of their body that the tornado is touching is the part sticking out of the shield, you can make this move unblockable. It's especially effective vs large characters.

Also note that this move beats out most physical attacks. Use it defensively for when you think someone will approach and then use it to counter then. This works great vs snake's f.tilt and running attack. Knowing when your opponent will attack allows you to use tornado to counter their attack and get free hits in with it.

Also note that tornado beats out almost any projectile that's not a laser or a thrown item. If someone goes into spam mode to keep you away, use this as an approach. If someone has a laser that DOES beat it out, jump up above their laser range and tornado down into them. You can avoid the projectile and hit them at the same time.

Also note that lighter characters pop out of tornado faster than others. It's difficult to describe, but hitting B at a certain rhythm to make it rise slowly instead of quickly will keep a lot of characters in it that would normally fall out. It's difficult to describe so practice in training mode with different timings until you get the feel for it.

Misc Info

A big aspect of MK's game is his edge guarding. Try to feel out a player and predict if they will go high or low with recovery. If they go low, try to ledge spike them with a d.air or a reverse shuttle loop. If they go high, jump up and intercept with f.air, or kill them with up. B. If they start air dodging, jump up like you're going to up. B and then wait for them to air dodge, and then up B as they come out of it.

Ledge Unblockables - Note that this is a Brawl mechanic not specific to MK. If a character is at the ledge and is attacked while blocking, they fall off and go into tumble mode. Now, if you do a multi hit move as they guard at an edge, your move becomes unblockable. MK can take big advantage of this with f.air and b.air. If they're on a platform above you blocking, jump up and f.air them so it pushes them off. The last 2 hits should be unblockable because the first knocked them off.

Vs Snake - Don't get close to him. Fight at your MAX range on the ground and look out for f.tilt, punish if with your own f.tilt and try to keep him off balance. Tornado rapes snake if he doesn't have a grenade, so use it to counter him when he tries to attack and also keep him in the air with it. Killing snake early is key to beating him, as long drawn out fights WILL result in snake killing you before him. Up. B and nair beat his up B. Use them wheneve ryou can and as early as possible before snake can air dodge out of his up B to kill him. Also note that if snake air dodges as you up B, his cypher will hit you and you'll be able to up B again. Use this to continually try to kill him if he's far off the stage.

I'll add more as it comes to me.

[BIG BAD MOG]

Tilt is ducking right?

Is running A -> Up smash guaranteed at lower percentages?