Mario Bros Thread

[Infernoman]

ok well like the other discussions here, this one will be about the OG bros themselves...discuss strategy match ups moves and more here.

one thing I have noticed about Mario now is in Melee I was able to jump in the air shoot a fireball and fast fall right after, but no longer can you do that making fireball spams kinda moot now.

Moves (work in progress)

A A A combo - simple and same stuff Mario has had since Smash 64 (though seems slower than before)

Tilts -

Air Moves -

Smashes -

Specials -

:r::snkb: , :l::snkb: mario cape. Same as Melee nothing changed but still great for reflecting attacks and timed well can ruin an opponent's recovery

:u::snkb: coin uppercut. again not changes here

:d::snkb: FLUDD, new move for Mario. uses? well:

discussion on FLUDD uses (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=149970)

example videos on FLUDD uses

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwcPcy7jN00

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1AxG3HX_9GU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Coi8fz5-LGk

(thank you crazymasterhand for this!)

Final Smash - Mario Finale a giant dual set of firebalss goes accross the screen. once you get caught in it you're pretty much done for. best used on the edge of the stage.

[ArcadeFire]

Mario just seems slower to me now =/ FLUDD is a useless move.,

[Infernoman]

Mario just seems slower to me now =/ FLUDD is a useless move.,

to me everyone feels slower now...

been trying to see if FLUDD has some use...but more or less, it's become one less move to even worry about. it at 1st seemed to have potential...I'll keep testing.

[ArcadeFire]

IF you could just spew out Water with it than it would be great but the fact that have to charge it before use kinda makes it useless.

[Infernoman]

IF you could just spew out Water with it than it would be great but the fact that have to charge it before use kinda makes it useless.

well not exactly...you can charge it and save it like DKs punch, or Samus' beam attack.

[ArcadeFire]

^ Really? Well that changes things. Luigi is pretty buff this time around as he doesn't slide all over the place anymore.

[Infernoman]

^ Really? Well that changes things. Luigi is pretty buff this time around as he doesn't slide all over the place anymore.

well in a sense they kinda had to do that what with the lack of Wave dashing making his old sliding pointless now...ain't gonna lie...his FS always makes me laugh...ZA WARUDO!

[maelstrom218]

Mario can now do 2 back-airs in one short hop. This gives him crazy kick-ass approach options. Or you can (in one short hop) do back-air to u-air. Sets up nicely for combos at certain percents.

Of course, this is kinda pointless if you're playing online, because the lag really doesn't let you time your aerials very well. Otherwise though, this is some badass shit that Mario can do.

[kof4life]

What do you guys think I should do as Mario for finishers? Is he supposed to have trouble KOing before 150% damage? I'm used to Melee where I could sweet-spot f-smash and get kills at 100% usually. That seems a lot harder to do in Brawl....Or is it just me?

[maelstrom218]

What do you guys think I should do as Mario for finishers? Is he supposed to have trouble KOing before 150% damage? I'm used to Melee where I could sweet-spot f-smash and get kills at 100% usually. That seems a lot harder to do in Brawl....Or is it just me?

Well, Mario had trouble KO'ing in Melee too. His only option there was sweetspotted f-smash, and that was it--sex kick and d-smash were helpful in setting up edgeguarding, but he didn't have anything else in terms of actual KO options.

In Brawl, besides from his f-smash, he has u-smash. It's been ridiculously buffed; it's faster and KOs at lower percents than before. Canceling a dash into an u-smash is probably the best means of using it. D-smash is. . .still the same. Just sets up for edgeguarding, it doesn't really KO.

So yeah. Besides f-smash, use u-smash. D-smash is kind of weak. Sex kick doesn't do much. F-air is too slow and difficult to set up/execute.

[DropOff]

I liked Luigi a whole lot in Melee and he's still pretty fun, I just haven't settled on him yet since I've been fooling around with others. Dat supa uppa-cut (Or the DSUC...or up+b) is hard to land now, it was always tricky but DAMN that lag afterwards is HORRIBLE. Down B is excellent now, I'm glad that luigi has something mario doesn't especially when it's that useful, also making it rise by tapping B is so so much easier than before.

Remember kids, if you do the Green bullet (or whatever they call it) 8 times and nothing happens, the next one is DEFINITELY a mis-fire.

[Dragonite]

The thing that's cool about FLUDD and squirtles water gun attack that i noticed is that it's good for edge guarding. It has a very situational use, and the conditions that need to be met don't happen (to me at least) very often. But when someones trying to recover back on stage after using their double jump and Up-B, you can use the FLUDD to push them off the edge. and bc it does no dmg they won't be able to do another Up-B recovery. sorry if i'm mentioning basic basic stuff. but yeah that's the only thing i ever found useful with it

[Infernoman]

Well, Mario had trouble KO'ing in Melee too. His only option there was sweetspotted f-smash, and that was it--sex kick and d-smash were helpful in setting up edgeguarding, but he didn't have anything else in terms of actual KO options.

In Brawl, besides from his f-smash, he has u-smash. It's been ridiculously buffed; it's faster and KOs at lower percents than before. Canceling a dash into an u-smash is probably the best means of using it. D-smash is. . .still the same. Just sets up for edgeguarding, it doesn't really KO.

So yeah. Besides f-smash, use u-smash. D-smash is kind of weak. Sex kick doesn't do much. F-air is too slow and difficult to set up/execute.

yeah I noticed that too playing...I LOVE how beefy his up-smash is now! :lovin: gives me another option (finally!) also his aerial game seems a bit better now since I am capable of juggling (potentially) 3 up-air attacks off of a double jump plus his redone down-air can juggle as well.

forward air at best is used when you have your opponent knocked down on wake-up. just short hop and hit it...though timing is something to practice but it's somewhat the same from melee.

The thing that's cool about FLUDD and squirtles water gun attack that i noticed is that it's good for edge guarding. It has a very situational use, and the conditions that need to be met don't happen (to me at least) very often. But when someones trying to recover back on stage after using their double jump and Up-B, you can use the FLUDD to push them off the edge. and bc it does no dmg they won't be able to do another Up-B recovery. sorry if i'm mentioning basic basic stuff. but yeah that's the only thing i ever found useful with it

it's an interesting to my old cape alternative. if you fear risking a meteor smash and dying this can possibly be used over that. but this is assuming if your opponent is recovering and is lower than the stage when you use it...

[crazymasterhand]

haven't gotten this to work yet, but I'm thinking you could use FLUDD to push people into stage hazards

I get stuff like dthrow utilt utilt uair uair "go for double jump fair and get kicked in the face" a lot so I need to figure out a better combo finisher

oh one use I did get out of FLUDD was to get some breathing room so I could go back to fireball spamming

and I love poking with ftilt

another thing, mashing A during dair still makes you hover a bit, so instead of falling through someone with dair and just knicking them, you can mash to stay where the enemy is so you catch them with the last hit

[Infernoman]

hmm...mashing D-air will still get ya some lift eh? seems much harder now that in Melee but I'll test it some more on certain characters. FLUDD could be more beneficial in 4 player or teams matches as then your teammate can then use the kncokc back for traps....(like say...Snake?)

[Shade]

well in a sense they kinda had to do that what with the lack of Wave dashing making his old sliding pointless now...ain't gonna lie...his FS always makes me laugh...ZA WARUDO!

Luigi's FS is freaking awesome.

[subt-L]

The thing that's cool about FLUDD and squirtles water gun attack that i noticed is that it's good for edge guarding. It has a very situational use, and the conditions that need to be met don't happen (to me at least) very often. But when someones trying to recover back on stage after using their double jump and Up-B, you can use the FLUDD to push them off the edge. and bc it does no dmg they won't be able to do another Up-B recovery. sorry if i'm mentioning basic basic stuff. but yeah that's the only thing i ever found useful with it i'm pretty sure this is the main use of fludd. you can also angle it up and down to suit this better. it basically screws anyone trying to grab the edge.

i'm sure if you store a full blast at the start of each life, and wait for the right situation, you'll get some very easy kills.

[white shadow]

Well, Mario had trouble KO'ing in Melee too. His only option there was sweetspotted f-smash, and that was it--sex kick and d-smash were helpful in setting up edgeguarding, but he didn't have anything else in terms of actual KO options.

In Brawl, besides from his f-smash, he has u-smash. It's been ridiculously buffed; it's faster and KOs at lower percents than before. Canceling a dash into an u-smash is probably the best means of using it. D-smash is. . .still the same. Just sets up for edgeguarding, it doesn't really KO.

So yeah. Besides f-smash, use u-smash. D-smash is kind of weak. Sex kick doesn't do much. F-air is too slow and difficult to set up/execute.

Melee Mario could still kill and had many combos to utilize overall (his sexy Uair-Uair-FSmash and SHFFL Uair-DSmash), this Mario barely can do a 2 hit combo due to the floaty engine.

One thing I've especially noticed is his priority, almost every character I've faced seems to beat out his tilts and aerials, esp. characters like Snake.

I'm very disappointed with Mario so far.

[crazymasterhand]

experimented with dair and I was totally wrong
looks like it's based on your momentum
do it at the peak of your jump and you'll hover
do it while falling and you'll keep falling
then again I might have fast fell without realizing it

[maelstrom218]

Melee Mario could still kill and had many combos to utilize overall (his sexy Uair-Uair-FSmash and SHFFL Uair-DSmash), this Mario barely can do a 2 hit combo due to the floaty engine.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Unless you were fighting large, heavy, slow characters that lacked a sex kick, then combo'ing with Mario in Melee is pretty much dependent on how poorly your opponent DIs. U-airs -> f-smash ONLY works if the opponent is DI'ing into you; this is true with fastfallers as well. U-air -> d-smash is a bit more reliable, but again, it largely depends on how badly your opponent DIs.

The only thing that Mario had that was really reliable was u-throw chaingrabbing, or very limited u-tilt -> u-air 2 to 3 hit combos. All the fancy stuff that Brown Mario and Scav popularized (u-air x 3 -> f-smash) aren't real (i.e. reliable) combos.

But about Brawl Mario, I have to agree with you. This floaty engine--although it did give Mario double b-air in one short hop--pretty much screwed EVERYONE'S combo game. I've managed to combo R.O.B. a bit since he's large and has no sex kick, so that's a start. But yeah, I'm not pulling any kind of reliable combo out at this point.

I have to play a bit more before I render judgment, but Brawl Mario is pretty average at this point, just like he was average in Melee.

[kureransu]

i just discovered something great with mario. I was playing around with the "alpha cancel/dashsmash/IDC technique to see if i could find anything else about it. and i discoverd this. if you dash back and so a forward smash in the same manner that you do the cancel. mario will take and additional step forward. i know it sounds weird since you dash back, but he goes froward by a tremndous (one full character)amount. it makes the range of his fsmash rival the sword users'.

[white shadow]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Unless you were fighting large, heavy, slow characters that lacked a sex kick, then combo'ing with Mario in Melee is pretty much dependent on how poorly your opponent DIs. U-airs -> f-smash ONLY works if the opponent is DI'ing into you; this is true with fastfallers as well. U-air -> d-smash is a bit more reliable, but again, it largely depends on how badly your opponent DIs.

It depends on the percentages, even in the cases when they DI away you could chase with SHFFL'd Nair or a 3rd Uair. My point is he could at least do something. And no one DIs perfectly, otherwise I wouldn't still see pros getting caught with these combos.

SHFFL Uair into D-Smash cannot be DI'd away on certain characters (%-depending). In this game nothing with Mario is certain.

The only thing that Mario had that was really reliable was u-throw chaingrabbing, or very limited u-tilt -> u-air 2 to 3 hit combos. All the fancy stuff that Brown Mario and Scav popularized (u-air x 3 -> f-smash) aren't real (i.e. reliable) combos.

I agree, but he could still kill with edgeguard and spacing smashes, just not efficiently- which is why he wasn't high tier.

But about Brawl Mario, I have to agree with you. This floaty engine--although it did give Mario double b-air in one short hop--pretty much screwed EVERYONE'S combo game. I've managed to combo R.O.B. a bit since he's large and has no sex kick, so that's a start. But yeah, I'm not pulling any kind of reliable combo out at this point.

Double Bair means little when the priority is mediocre and most characters can recover from the Bair gimp even if edgeguarded (Dedede, Pit, Snake, Meta Knight, etc..). Mario doesn't seem to have anything redeemable, sans his decent Up Smash.


I have to play a bit more before I render judgment, but Brawl Mario is pretty average at this point, just like he was average in Melee.

Mario was average in Melee but IM*H*O he's worse here, mainly because of the floaty engine, crappy F.L.U.U.D., and lack of a recovery Tornado.

Dr.Mario would've done so well in this game.

[kof4life]

So I'm not the only one who thinks Luigi is better than Mario for once? Awesome!

[white shadow]

So I'm not the only one who thinks Luigi is better than Mario for once? Awesome!
Luigi is awesome

Jab Jab CHING!!! Fuh LIFE!!!:rock:

[ArcadeFire]

I'm very disappointed with Mario so far.

QFT

As much as I LOVE Mario I find it a pain in the ass to KO with him. Like everything he had good in Melee has been removed or nerfed. Lugi FTW.

[KMD]

So I'm not the only one who thinks Luigi is better than Mario for once? Awesome!

Weegee is so much better than Mario this game it's not even funny. He's got the jab combo into WEEGEEYUKEN for kills at 70-90%, Down-B is a very nice approach, his air game is so long lasting he might as well be on the ground, and his taunts are the sauce.

Mario is solid, but Luigi is beast. And then he's got ZA WARUDO as his FS, which is a free Up-B on everyone in the radius.

[Infernoman]

Luigi is awesome

Jab Jab CHING!!! Fuh LIFE!!!:rock:

man...ya'll hate on Mario... :sad:

He's been better than Mario since Super Mario Bros 2 :rofl:

LIES!!!

but ok seriously now, Mario's air game has changed much now...as someone said yeah I can buffer in 2 Uairs in one hop now. his basic A A A combo is slower now as well. I don't have that much trouble KOing with mario...but many forget his throws...his backward throw still is his most powerful throw and can be a decent alternative if you're having trouble smashing people. Timing on his F-air seems different...still testing out any and all ways to utilize FLUDD but it looks like it'll be similar to say Alex's DDT from 3rd Strike...a decent surprise once in a while but can be seen coming a mile away...

edit - I'm going to begin editing my 1st post to show all of his moves...what is useable, crap and whatnot...well once I get back home to my Wii

[KidZero]

Luigi's cyclone recovery is insane. I was like WTF!? It's like a double jump...

[crazymasterhand]

discussion on FLUDD uses (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=149970)

couple vids on the subject from that thread:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwcPcy7jN00

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1AxG3HX_9GU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Coi8fz5-LGk

gotta try this shit next time I play

[Infernoman]

discussion on FLUDD uses (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=149970)

couple vids on the subject from that thread:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwcPcy7jN00

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1AxG3HX_9GU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Coi8fz5-LGk

gotta try this shit next time I play

excellent find! I have been testing this out and yeah timing is extremely crucial in having this work out. Seeing this in action shows that FLUDD with cape can be even more evil than cape alone now. I want to have this info be set on page 1! again great find! :tup:

lol I love the song they use for that last vid..."skeet on yo face!" :rofl:

[jubeh]

Weegee is so much better than Mario this game it's not even funny. He's got the jab combo into WEEGEEYUKEN for kills at 70-90%, Down-B is a very nice approach, his air game is so long lasting he might as well be on the ground, and his taunts are the sauce.

Mario is solid, but Luigi is beast. And then he's got ZA WARUDO as his FS, which is a free Up-B on everyone in the radius.

This post is win.

Has everyone seen this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yCkv2A4Oe9s

Mario can use his forward momentum to fly off the stage while using the cape. It has practical uses, and just looks badass.

[white shadow]

The F.L.U.U.D. and cape stuff look nice for Mario but it's still I'm a skeptic. The approaches are based more on the opponent behaving in a certain pattern than actually being overall effective. It seems Mario has to come up with random stuff to be effective while his Brother is just good thanks to a nice design.


These things could evolve into more interesting techs but for now I'm still in limbo...

[jubeh]

I haven't found a decent use for FLUDD aside from raping Ness and Lucas's recovery. It's honestly just really stupid.

[Drunken_Dragon]

the fludd also "stops" some vertical movement while keeping people stuck, if you angle it right against lots of others you can keep them out far enough for caping.


by itself its pretty much useless, but with the cape you can hurt lots of recoveries.

(gannon, DDD, space animals)

[crazymasterhand]

I once used FLUDD to force Lucas to whiff a fair

FFA trick: see Ike charging a smash, push him in someone else's way

[jubeh]

I've seen somebody get knocked off the stage, cape away from the stage, blast fludd to shoot closer to the stage, cape towards the stage and up+b for recovery one time. It seemed unnecessary, but looked cool.

Does caping working on disjointed hitboxes? Can I cape a Marth fsmash tipper?

[crazymasterhand]

I've seen somebody get knocked off the stage, cape away from the stage, blast fludd to shoot closer to the stage, cape towards the stage and up+b for recovery one time. It seemed unnecessary, but looked cool.

I tried that yesterday, but when I fired FLUDD I fast fell and died

EDIT: pushed dedede off the right side of 75m with FLUDD while he was busy mashing jab lol

[jubeh]

I'm finding that Mario beats a lot of mid-lower tier characters easy, but he has some shit match-ups.

Have any Mario players crafted a solid strategy against Wolf? And by Wolf, I mean gay laser spamming, fsmash dsmash happy queer.

Also, Game & Watch rapes my Mario. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. D:

[kof4life]

I'm finding that Mario beats a lot of mid-lower tier characters easy, but he has some shit match-ups.

Have any Mario players crafted a solid strategy against Wolf? And by Wolf, I mean gay laser spamming, fsmash dsmash happy queer.

Also, Game & Watch rapes my Mario. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. D:

Even if you aren't makeing mistakes agains Game and Watch, he's a tough match. His attacks have gained more speed and priority from Melee, and he gives Luigi a tough match as it is, even with Luigi's great priority.

[jubeh]

I've been using Gannon against G&W, but I really want to form solid Mario plans for all the (supposedly) high-tier characters. Gotta move Mario up.

I notice that bucket-happy GamenWatches tend to bucket every time they see the fireball, so I like to toss a random fire ball in the completely opposite direction and hope they bucket, so I can get a free hit. This only works once, though. <_<

[Imperious]

Maybe it's just because I'm a Smash n00b, but I can't get Luigi's combo into uppercut to work. It's A - A - uppercut, right? Is there some trick to the timing? Even with Mario's damage at 150% in the training mode, I can't get it to register as a combo. It always gives the uppercut as a separate hit.

[kof4life]

I've been working more on Mario, and I've noticed that the extra hit-stun on his fireballs can make for some pretty good edge-gaurding material. Combined with his cape, b-air, n-air and u-air, he has a pretty good edge-gaurding arsenal. It's hard to gimp kill certain characters, but he can definitely at least keep scoring free damage every time he gets someone off the stage. Against DK (who's mid tier now) he can fireball the ape to force him to go for the ledge, then time a cape to reverse the momentum of up-b (just as an example) . I'm working on seeing how effective he can be in this regard, but edge-gaurding may be Mario's trump card.

[Keits]

dont know how useful this is, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPHtEb4HpRY

[Infernoman]

dont know how useful this is, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPHtEb4HpRY

hmm...more situational stuff but it can benefit mario on that stage and considering his cape doesn't give him recovery anymore he can get all the hlep can.

[Kix]

The game is slower that is why he seems slower. By the way I main Mario and here's a ton of stuff you probably already know.

Mario's hitbox seems farther in the cape now and it's not quite as good at reversing things. If you used it a bit in Melee notice now how you may cape somebody but take the hit more often. It has meant KO for me in more than one instance and boy how awesome it would be if it did it's job!

Use jumping fireballs all day. Fireball is Mario's greatest asset. Use short jumped fire balls and some ground with full jump to double jump ones to keep the opponent at bay. They may come out quicker but they do not stun as much as the pills so be careful about recklessly going in on the opponent. They definitely help approach though. Be cautious against people like snake and don't let them get to close in the air if you are spamming them. His Nair and other moves will absolutely rape you.

As for FLUDD it isn't useless despite the fact that I love to say this. FLUDD can be used to keep an opponent back and for getting them off the stage/edge guarding. It's also good defensively if you get used to it if the opponent is coming in from the air. I've gotten advantage from using it, just don't charge it stupidly. Also you can push back just to go back to your fire ball defense. Also when coming back on stage with a good edge guarder it will push them out of the way and give you some much needed room. Also for instance if a Snake is trying to meet you in the air this might be a good time to use it. Also it negates many projectiles. I use it all of the time.

Super Coin Punch comes out near instantly so it's good for getting out of stuff especially with stuff that does not keep you stunned which happens often in this game. Don't be stupid as you do have to land if it does not hit. Also good out of guard.

Up tilt comes out instantly and although it doesn't have the largest hitbox if you hit with it you can get a few juggle hits into possibly an Super Coin Punch depending on the damage. Try to use forward tilt at max distance but it's an okay "get off of me" move. Down tilt you have to be smart about using because of the way it hits them it launches them. Be careful depending on the character's air moves but it is which from the crouching position and I think it hits longer than it looks.

Back air into up air works pretty well. Down air is good from close going upward past them so it harder to punish. If someone is spot dodging into stuff, such as luigi into that danged down smash I usually jump in with this.

PS Game & Watch totally rapes Mario. Mario looses tons of options without fireballs and they can easily react and I guess it has invincibility frames on bucket and he keeps it over rounds. I think you should use another character against him. Also I'm pretty sure that his forward Smash is out much quicker than it looks but just takes longer to get to the forward position. I think it's actually extremely quick if it's active from the top like I think it is. Has a huge hitbox and hits from behind him too. Pain for anybody playing him, especially Mario when he needs to get close. If Mario had more reach he could maybe do better after his air moves but it's hard.

[judge_rl]

^Useful info up there. Useful info thus far provided in this thread actually.

I read from someone else and totally agree that you can definitely see how far someone has progressed in the game as far as skill when you see them play Mario.

Luigi definitely brings his own personality to the game though.

I think it's very interesting how Luigi's uB is so much more powerful than Mario's. At first I wondered if maybe Mario's is better air-to-air or vs ground-to-air (thinking on how when he hits boxes in the actual Mario Bros games, they are above him), but I never tested it.

Like many of you have posted though, I think both of the Bros have rather useful tilts. I also like how the last hit of Mario's dB is the knock-out hit (i.e., the strongest hit of his twirl). If you time it right off of a short hop, this is the only hit he produces, and he appears to recover instantly to defend/grab/what have you afterwards. Even though he lands quicker after performing his short hopped dB, the impact hit still comes out for a brief period of time.

Someone mentioned that Mario gets his chance to shine when he is edge-guarding. I think this may, indeed, be his strong point as far as I've seen. I think his FS hints at this idea.

[Insomniac487]

dont know how useful this is, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPHtEb4HpRY

Very interesting stuff. gotta try this out :smokin: