Toon Link (and maybe Link too)

[Septimus Prime]

I don't really have much to contribute yet, but it seems like people say he's good.

So here's a thread for him. And maybe for Link too.

[Shinto]

Double Arrows learn it!

[Daemonk]

Bair, Bair, jump, Bair, jump Bair, Up Air. Dead. Cries.

[Zero-SR388]

Can you spike with his dair?
I would assume so because of how quickly he withdrawls his sword, but I never tried it...

[mastermind]

Is it just me, or TL just really powerful in general?

[white shadow]

Can you spike with his dair?
I would assume so because of how quickly he withdrawls his sword, but I never tried it...

With Toon Link, you can do ANYTHING!

[Oroman]

Is it just me, or TL just really powerful in general?

Toon Link is so much better than Link it's almost ridiculous. Metaknight has a lot of combos but TL's combos kill you. Almost everything about him is good and, the only flaw I can find with him so far is that he's very light.

[Daemonk]

I think dair can spike. but if you miss you pretty much fall to your death.

[white shadow]

Toon Link is so much better than Link it's almost ridiculous. Metaknight has a lot of combos but TL's combos kill you. Almost everything about him is good and, the only flaw I can find with him so far is that he's very light.

And even that is negated by the floatiness of the game in general and his decent recovery.

[patmonsta]

can someone explain what dare is sry im noob

[Insomniac487]

Toon Link Dair Combo - Check this out!
44% damage in a matter of seconds, ends with a meteror smash straight down (dont think you can DI out of that!?). Also for the third Dair, anybody know how that was done? looks like after the 2nd D-AIR, double jump, fastfall cancel into 3rd D-AIR?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjHUHyPGVto


Godly stuff :smokin: He's definitely gonna be top tier. a ton of people at smashboards / brawlcentral are talking highly of him. Also i heard he has bomb jumping but sadly Link does not. Very, very big dissapointment to a lot of main-linkers..... just having that extra option, extra way of recovery (from far away) using bomb jumps was so important. They shouldve left that in.... I've been maining link ever since SSB64, but it looks this time i'll be maining him still.. but not as much. Toon Link will be the other choice :smokin:

[Daemonk]

U, D, F, B are just initials for Up, Down, Forward, Back

So UAir means Up attack in the air. Same with DAir, FAir, BAir. In Toon Link's case, UAir would be that move where Toon Link holds his sword pointing up while jumping.

NeutralAir would be an attack in the air without any direction.

Tilts are attacks you do on the ground where you hold down a direction + A. Its different from a Smash attack where you tap the direction + A.

Someone should make a jargon thread.

And yeah Toon Link is a beast. Definately top tier if not the best character in the game. The fact that you can be both an aggressor and camper is pretty ridiculous.

[Dj Clayface]

he's got decent keep away aswell, bomb throwing while sheilding, you could also throw a bomb while dodging in the first few frames, i don't know if you get the invincible frames while throwing the bomb, i have not checked that out yet.

[Septimus Prime]

Yes, you can spike with Dair. It sends its target straight down if it hits. But if you miss, you die.

[Tigerboi]

I'm finding him a little overated so far. But still good.

Up smash is sick, bair is insane, dair spikes EASILY, down smash is great, n air is alright.

He has good keepaway with shorthopped arrows, rangs and bombs.

The problem with him is that his reach and priority ratio is wack. Meta beats him on the ground, marth destroys him on the ground.
he has to bati IKE imo.

Link is seriously getting overlooked. Nair is just as good as it ever was, f-air was buffed....I like the new spin attack. N-A is really good for interruptions, d-smash is a good ko move.

If you're trying to combo with Link, you're not playing him right. Play him like Ike, go for knockback.

[Shade]

I'm finding him a little overated so far.

I agree. No one has even beat me with Toon Link yet.

[Septimus Prime]

:u: *Ahem* :bluu:

[Shade]

Ok, you have. But it won't happen again!

[Oroman]

I agree. No one has even beat me with Toon Link yet.

*Clears throat*

[Daemonk]

If Toon Link camps majority of the game, its very hard to beat him. Its harder to get past his defenses than most characters imo.

[Oroman]

If Toon Link camps majority of the game, its very hard to beat him. Its harder to get past his defenses than most characters imo.

His defense isn't even that great ,but it's better than some characters. It's the fact that he has more options than most of the cast. He could be a offensive threat or defensive theat. He can combo into his dair, short hop arrows, attach bombs onto his arrows, or just rush you down. It's pretty nuts, but he's not invincible. He can still be killed, it may just take more effort.

[Tigerboi]

Attach bombs onto arrows?

[Oroman]

Attach bombs onto arrows?

Yea someone said he could do it in the last thread; however nobody confimed it. I would test for this myself but I haven't unlocked him yet:rofl:. I've been too busy with GnW.

[Daemonk]

If just his arrows don't have a knockback effect (like fox's laser) then he would be fine I think.

When TLink sits below a platform shooting arrows at you. Its hard to get to him without taking massive damage. If you jump, you'll land on the platform, if you rush him, you get knock back by arrows, if you dodge around arrows, he can bair you. Best way in that situation was to grab. But with a slow grabber like ZSS, its not feasible.

If you have projectiles I guess you can shoot stuff back at him, but the amount of arrows he can pump out will usually nullfy that.

I am not saying hes invincible, but there are a lot of camping situations that makes it really difficult to get to him.

[Tigerboi]

Yea someone said he could do it in the last thread; however nobody confimed it. I would test for this myself but I haven't unlocked him yet:rofl:. I've been too busy with GnW.

That must've been a joke, he can't.

He's been one of my mains so far. Bair is easily his best move imo. The only problem I see he has is that his priority sucks, which is a bigger problem than it sounds. That and he suffers from hyrule recovery.

[Oroman]

If just his arrows don't have a knockback effect (like fox's laser) then he would be fine I think.

If you have projectiles I guess you can shoot stuff back at him, but the amount of arrows he can pump out will usually nullfy that.


I agree. The only characters that can get around this are Zelda, Wolf, Fox, and Falco. That's only because they can reflect them. GnW could use them for his bucket if they were "energy" based.

[Tigerboi]

He can only have one arrow on the screen at a time, guys. really.

His zoning is good, but not as beastly as you guys are saying. also, if you get over him he pretty much has to use bombs to zone.

Niggas need to stop playing FD so damn much.

[Corner-Trap]

Toon Link is much better than Link. He's fast, with lots of combo potential, good spacing, and excellent KO power. He really doesn't have much of a week spot.

[Daemonk]

If you get over him, he can tilt up or uair with pretty good priority.

[Oroman]

If you get over him, he can tilt up or uair with pretty good priority.

Meh. Just air dodge it then punish him.

[Daemonk]

Sure there are plenty of ways to do whatever. You can air dodge, and TL will have enough time to jab after his tilt up because his moves have very little recovery time afterwards. We can talk about it all day. Let's just agree that Toon Link is a very good character. I think TL players are afraid to be called cheap.

I don't think any character in this game is cheap really. TL is just very hard to play against for now. Maybe someone will discover a glaring hole in his game soon. I hope.

[Tigerboi]

^ You're wrong though. If TL whiffs an uair he gets punished for free, just like Link. That move has alot of recovery. And if link whiffs a up tilt agianst most characters at that range, he most likely will be forced to block but a generic n-a.

Infact, TL in general only has ok lag. His only spammable move is bair.

He gets punished for free if he misses the following:

Dair, uair, d-smash, up b, f-smash.

Those are just about all of KO moves right there.

Toon Link is much better than Link. He's fast, with lots of combo potential, good spacing, and excellent KO power. He really doesn't have much of a week spot.

Guys please, I've been playing him for hours. Trust me when I say his priority is crap. He also doesn't recover as well as Link. From my playtime he has a really had match against meta knight because meta beats him in reach AND priority.

TL is really good, but I feel you guys are giving him too much credit.

Also, stop trying to combo with Link. That makes as much sense as trying to combo with Ike. Jackasses.

and what exactly is so special about TL's keepaway? It's just like Link's but with less damage. -.-

[Daemonk]

^ You're wrong though. If TL whiffs an uair he gets punished for free, just like Link. That move has alot of recovery. And if link whiffs a up tilt agianst most characters at that range, he most likely will be forced to block but a generic n-a.

Infact, TL in general only has ok lag. His only spammable move is bair.

He gets punished for free if he misses the following:

Dair, uair, d-smash, up b, f-smash.

Those are just about all of KO moves right there.



Guys please, I've been playing him for hours. Trust me when I say his priority is crap. He also doesn't recover as well as Link. From my playtime he has a really had match against meta knight because meta beats him in reach AND priority.

TL is really good, but I feel you guys are giving him too much credit.

Also, stop trying to combo with Link. That makes as much sense as trying to combo with Ike. Jackasses.

and what exactly is so special about TL's keepaway? It's just like Link's but with less damage. -.-

The guy I regularly play with use to main young link in melee. So he knows the keepaway game really well. Its pretty amazing what you can do with TL's keepaway.

TL's projectiles seem to have more knockback that Link's. The boomerang is bigger and definately has more knockback. Big Link's whirlwind effect is cool, but TL's boomerang also can move the opponent towards you on the way back. The only complaint my friend had with TL's boomerang was that its thrown angle is not as good as big link's.

I actually think the bombs TL throws are better. The bombs can bounce around before exploding. And the bombs can be thrown higher and farther. Being able to throw a bomb up above and outside the visible screen can be pretty powerful.

The arrows doesn't shoot as fast as big Link's, but you can't duck under it like big Links. TL's arrows are fast enough to disrupt an action before it gets to you.

I can see how you would have a easier time than I do with metaknight, Marth, or Ike. They have just as much or more range than TL. Maybe I should pick up Marth or Ike just to play against TL.

[Tigerboi]

Ok, its a fact that the boomerang defiantly has more range than YLs in melee. Also, the arrows have more range.

But why even consider the knockback of the boomerang? I mean really, the boomerang was never used in any game for it's knockback. It was always used as a zoning tool. IIRC (I may need to test it) Link's boomerang does more damage than TLs. His bombs defiantly hurt alot more than TLs and have more off screen KO potency.

TLs spin attack is better than YLs, but it still isn't THAT great. He can do it, then jump and start a bair combo, but that's only if the victim isn't paying attention.

Also, most characters can't duck uner Link's arrows, but even that is made up for by his boomerang having a larger hitbox than TLs.

[Corner-Trap]

Guys please, I've been playing him for hours. Trust me when I say his priority is crap. He also doesn't recover as well as Link. From my playtime he has a really had match against meta knight because meta beats him in reach AND priority.

TL is really good, but I feel you guys are giving him too much credit.

Also, stop trying to combo with Link. That makes as much sense as trying to combo with Ike. Jackasses.

and what exactly is so special about TL's keepaway? It's just like Link's but with less damage. -.-

I'm just saying that Toon Link is just generally better than Link, I'm in no way saying that Link sucks.

[Tigerboi]

For now I actually agree, but I can see myself possibly changing my mind in the near future.

For now, TL has a much better air game than link (though it's no diddy kong air game) and can set up hi ko moves pretty well.

Buuuut Link overall has more priority so he's much better at playing reactively than TL.

And remember, this is brawl. you CAN actually play reactively and win now! (unlike melee)

[Septimus Prime]

I've recently started to throw boomerangs before I do Dairs. That way, if I miss, I'm still somewhat covered.

[wafflemonkey]

just RAR bair, bair and your friends will call you bullshit.(seariously apparently im not allowed to play toonlink anymore QQ)

[Tigerboi]

Throws really SUCK in this game. Seriously. I miss being able to down throw into a KO with Link.

I'm going to mess with links up-tilt more. it seems to be his only combo potency move.

[Xahki]

TL is better, but Link isn't that bad.

This is from my experience, but Link works great as a weaker, faster Ike. Knock them back. I barely use any combos unless it just pops up. His projectiles are very good too. If you get some with a bomb in the air at 150%-ish or above, you can actually kill someone. His fsmash is kinda weird and sucks now, but his usmash is pretty good. He's still pretty average.

I'm just decent though, I think. Link needs more love =V

[Tigerboi]

Link's f-tilt is really good. BIG knockback and little lag. easily his best ground move imo. f-smash should only be used to punish.

[4649]

amazing Toon Link player here
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XkTXdr4bW84
and here in finals of the same tourney
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pB1dFc0Wvms&feature=related

DieSuperFly / DSF, he's a fsckin beast

[Daemonk]

damn. that guy is good. he actually knows how to use his projectiles. not many link players knows how to take advantage of that.

[Zero-SR388]

With Toon Link, you can do ANYTHING!

Yeah he can spike... I tried it.

What is "RAR"?

[fireballtrap]

amazing Toon Link player here
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XkTXdr4bW84
and here in finals of the same tourney
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pB1dFc0Wvms&feature=related

DieSuperFly / DSF, he's a fsckin beast

Oh my god. My drive to learn Toon Link just shot way up.

[izanagisama]

What is "RAR"?
Reverse Air Rush: dash towards opponent>turn around+jump>direction towards opponent+attack= forward moving b-air.

Did anyone ever figure out what specifically caused the "glitch", for lack of a better term, on Toon Link's d-smash? Just had it happen to me when a friend and I were screwing around on Lyatt we were wondering if anything else had been discovered about it. I was surprisingly able to survive it too, even with Falco's gimpy Firebird. :)

Edit: Just in case people aren't clear, I mean the one which causes only the first swipe to hit and thus hurling the opponent away from Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbFnHBI-kts&feature=related

[Tigerboi]

The zelda player DIed in the wrong direction.

[izanagisama]

That's what I'd always heard, but no one could ever elaborate or even say what way was the wrong way.

Anyway, I found some more stuff about it; apparently it can happen when the character being hit has momentum moving diagonally up and away from the way TL is facing, it can happen on slanted planes (makes the most sense), or when you DI down as the first hit throws you towards the second. That is also more likely on steeply slanted planes.

[EmblemLord]

Toon Link is stupid good and actually seems stronger then Link.

It's like Marth and Roy all over again from Melee.

One is just blatantly better then the other.

[KWASIA]

nice little bomb setup with tink but i can't reproduce it with link any ideas why...???

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB8R0LpQvjI

[white shadow]

lol DieSuperFly is a BEAST with Toon Link. I love how he used those Bombs, not to mention the explosion goes under the ledge so his couldn't ledge camp like a douche.:rofl:

[mastermind]

Just tried TL online with a few buddies last night. I might have to make Metaknight my secondary after how much damage I was racking up. =P

Lag kills my double arrowing, though. hahah

[Corner-Trap]

I had a few friend playing over today while I was using TL against his MK. He picked Green Hill Zone and one thing I noticed are the little check points. When you hit them they hurt your opponent but not you, after I realized this I camped under the checkpoints while spamming projectiles. The matched dragged on for the whole 7 minutes into a timeout but I won since he died once. This is probably the most effective camping strategy I've seen so far in this game, and I consider it TL's best stage thus far.

[EmblemLord]

And this is why the stage will be banned.

Try it with Zelda.

She can't be stopped.

I'm not joking.

[Corner-Trap]

And this is why the stage will be banned.

Try it with Zelda.

She can't be stopped.

I'm not joking.

I hope not, I'm tired of people banning stages just because characters do well on them. We haven't even had majors for the game, yet people already claim that characters have unstoppable strategies on certain stages. Until someone actually wins consistently in tournaments with said strategies I will take their words as just theory fighter.

[EmblemLord]

No. You don't understand.

She can't be stopped. Din's fire hits her opponent and the checkpoint if they try to camp her.

So she can take any checkpoint that her opponent gets to first.

Once she has the checkpoint, it's hers.

And Din's Fire can actually kill you, unlike Toon Link's projectiles.

The stage will be banned.

It's not a matter of her doing well on it.

It's a matter of her being unbeatable on it.

And it's not theory. One of my crewmates did this to me in our matches.

We both agreed that she can't be stopped after discussing it. There is nothing anyone can do.

I think only Zelda vs Zelda is viable on that stage.

[Corner-Trap]

No. You don't understand.

She can't be stopped. Din's fire hits her opponent and the checkpoint if they try to camp her.

So she can take any checkpoint that her opponent gets to first.

Once she has the checkpoint, it's hers.

And Din's Fire can actually kill you, unlike Toon Link's projectiles.

The stage will be banned.

It's not a matter of her doing well on it.

It's a matter of her being unbeatable on it.

And it's not theory. One of my crewmates did this to me in our matches.

We both agreed that she can't be stopped after discussing it. There is nothing anyone can do.

I think only Zelda vs Zelda is viable on that stage.

Can you post some videos of it? No one in my crew plays Zelda, and everyone who played sheik basically quit on her, so I can't properly test out the level of brokeness for that stage.

[EmblemLord]

It's pretty easy to do considering how stupid easy Zelda is to play.

I bet you can do it yourself.

Try it.

And see how dumb Zelda is in the process. ^_^

[Corner-Trap]

It's pretty easy to do considering how stupid easy Zelda is to play.

I bet you can do it yourself.

Try it.

And see how dumb Zelda is in the process. ^_^

Alright I'll test it after America's Best Dance Crew is done :smile:

[KWASIA]

can someone please explain to me how this works... i can't for the life of my find how to drop bombs without them just blowing up...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB8R0LpQvjI

[Daemonk]

oh wow. they had that in melee actually. It was just close to impossible to do. You have to drop the bomb as close to ground as possible. Pretty much right as you land. Are you using Z to drop the bomb?

[roninwarrior24]

OK, please someone clarify this because the Smash Wiki is acting stupid and changes its information every other day. Is regular Link faster or slower than he was in Melee?

[Tigerboi]

^ he seems to run slower but everything else feels the same.

Camping under the check points with regular Link is even more retarded than TL.

Zelda camping:
even if you manage to get around din's fire you have to deal with the checkpoint and Naryu's love....at once. But, yeah, I think that EL is overating this strat. For one, the checkpoint moves, two she can be stopped by alot of different projectile types.

[ssjbrydon]

can someone please explain to me how this works... i can't for the life of my find how to drop bombs without them just blowing up...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB8R0LpQvjI

its kinda weird i just learned how to do it, just tap z right as ur hitting the ground. it almost looks like u just landed, its kinda hard to do at first but get the hang of it.


now doing this with lag... impossible.

[EmblemLord]

No. She can't be stopped by alot of different projectiles since the checkpioint stops alot of them.

And yeah the checkpoint moves. So what?

Din's fire lets her hit the checkpoit and her opponent and the same time.

tigerboi: You need to play opponents who do nothing, but play gay and camp you. It's alot of fun. Trust me.

[Corner-Trap]

Me and about five friends played Brawl for like 6 straight hours today. I thoroughly tested out the Zelda idea on Green Hill Zone and it was incredibly effective. I won like 8 straight matches without losing a life. But my friends found ways around it. They just picked other projectile characters and tried to beat me to the check points. I may not know how to play Zelda well but I don't consider this strategy on the level of brokeness to be banned. I think some people are just over hyping it.

EDIT:

Emblemlord: I seriously don't understand why the whole damn smash community is against camping.

[EmblemLord]

It's not.

But as of right now it's the only viable strat.

Which is kinda silly don't you think.

[Corner-Trap]

It's not.

But as of right now it's the only viable strat.

Which is kinda silly don't you think.

Well if it's not broken then the stage should be viable. And honestly it isn't the only viable strategy. Sure the most important part of the stage is to control the checkpoints, but it isn't like Zelda is the only character in the game who can do it effectively.

[EmblemLord]

No. I meant camping in general is the only viable strat.

In Itemless Brawl anyway.

[4649]

kizzu's toon link combo is dope
bairs to the edge, footstool jump off them then dair spike = dead

[roninwarrior24]

Are there any situations/matchups in which regular Link fares better than Toon Link, or is Toon Link just unanimously better in every aspect? I know that both can camp their asses off, and that Toon Link is faster/more nimble than regular Link, but can they both compete at a high level, or is Toon Link the one to use (kinda like how Roy was mostly inferior to Marth in just about every way in SSBM)?

[Wolfkiller]

I haven't had a chance to use TL much, but I the big thing I noticed with him VS Link is his ups. Link's 2 jumps + upspin are complete garbage compared to TL. Was Link's jump power always that bad? I don't remember it being so bad in Melee.

[EmblemLord]

It's Marth nad Roy all over again.

The only think Link really has is raw strength.

[Septimus Prime]

Link has better range and priority (due that range) too.

[mugwhump]

Link's aerial clawshot is awesome. Good 10 damage (if you hit with both parts), fair range, pretty safe. Best of all, it's got no landing lag! So if you hit them right before landing, you can naturally combo into a dash attack, usmash, or fsmash. :O

It works with Toon Link too, but not as well, since his is much shorter and poopier.

[Tigerboi]

No. She can't be stopped by alot of different projectiles since the checkpioint stops alot of them.

And yeah the checkpoint moves. So what?

Din's fire lets her hit the checkpoit and her opponent and the same time.

tigerboi: You need to play opponents who do nothing, but play gay and camp you. It's alot of fun. Trust me.

I've messed more with this tactic ever since my last post....


......still don't agree. The checkpoint only covers the top portion of her hit box, that and explosions negate it anyway. Seriously.



.......this thread sucks. I'm so going to have to start my own links thread.

Or not.

I'll just do this:



When comparing them side by side, each one fairs better in certain matches than the other because they both have key advantages and disadvantages.

This is NOT marth and roy all over again. Roy did everything marth did, just alot worse. that isn't the case here. While, I'm not going to begin to say which one is better, I'm definatly not going to make that horrible comparison. So as far as differences go:


-Link's keepaway is ALOT bettter than TLinks's. Why? His projectiles hit harder and have more range. Also, he has a better anti-projectile game. simply crouching stops space animal lasers. Also his n-air has a longer reach than all of TLink's air moves and comes oput really fast and has great knockback. It is a little laggy however, but seriously, it can be used like fox's n-air.

-Tlink's jumping is miles ahead of Link's, but his hookshot is awful. Really, isn't even worth using for a tether recovery simply because it comes out close to sweetspot range anyway.

-Link is to be played using his priority (he has plenty) and knockback outside of his zoning. If you're trying to be cute and play him like TL you're using him wrong.

-Tlink get's completely raped by meta from what I see. To win he has be basically played like Link. Which...isn't good.

-Tlink takes hits like a small child (lol), but he's not as light as characters like Fox.

their air games are what really set them apart. Break down:

tL:

F+air: ALot like his b+air actually. But a little more laggy. Meaning he can't short hop and do two or three of these like he can with b+air. Meaning it leaves him open more. Use b+air. basically the same move but better.

u+air: I LOVE this move. Yes it's laggy as fuck, but the risk vs. reward is worth it imo. In every matchup as far as I can see, if Tl launches with this move he has the position advantage. If the character can't stop TL from below he can chase and do another toss a bom straight up, move to the other side of it and start zoning.


d+air: Yeah, Yeah, we all know it meteors. Very risky if not comboed into however. Which kizzu's combo only works at certain percentages (at high percentages, the B+air knocks back really far). Short hopping it at low percentages will cause it to hit twice. From there can start b+airing if you want as TL will have frame advantage.

b+air: Beastly. After many hours of using TL I can say it's easily his best move besides his up-smash. (which is SLEPT ON so hard). Good wall of pain move, almost no lag, knocks back pretty good. (it'll ko if you're near a wall). RAR all day.


Link's aerials:

n-air: seriously, this move is really good. It can be used to edgegaurd enemies who are coming from below. knockback is great fro such a fast move. Easily his best air move.

up-air: alot like TL's, but reaches farther, has more priority and hits harder. nuff said.

b-air: meh. It's....ok. I mean, fuck, it damages. but it doesn't knock back on the first hit. Just not worth using imo.
N-air does the same thing but so much better.

f-air: this move. THIS MOVE....is slept on.it sends enemies in a curved ark like Ganon's f+tilt. whenever I hit someone out of thier third jump with this while edgegaurding, they die. Every single time. (given the percentage is right, of course)


I don't think Link sucks. I think he sucks for alot people because they get gay and try to ruch down with him. cut that out.

[EmblemLord]

No.

Link sucks.

Toon Link rocks.

[Tigerboi]

You make very terrible posts.

[EmblemLord]

Nope.

I have noticed that your comments about Brawl reek of....optimism.

Everything you say is so positive and unrealistic. You also sleep on alot of really good characters and overhype bad ones.

"No one is truly bad in this game."

"I don't see why *insert really awesome character that is great for obvious reasons* is so good."

"Link and Toon Link are just different, but I can't say which one is better."

Stuff like this. I mean really...come on now.

Be serious.

[Tigerboi]

TI would say "you dun know me" right about now if he were me.

I'm simply not going to say any character sucks this early on. And this is honestly based on my play experience. (Which is what keeps people from talking out their asses)

For the record, if you're going to start pulling my past statements out, you might want to consider that I called meta a cheap asshole, Snake a monster and dedede is retarded.

[EmblemLord]

I mean..that's cool and all.

I just don't like it when intelligent posters say stuff like balance and how they won't judge a character and such and such in regards to fighting games.

Fighting game aren't balanced and honestly you aren't judging anything by saying which character is better or w/e. All you are is acknowledging something that was already there.

The fact that some characters are lame as in broken and others are lame as in they suck ass.

And yeah I seem to remember you saying that those characters are broken in one way or another.

Kudos to you. It doesn't do you any good to deny the brokeness. Only sets you up for dissappointment when you can't deny that a fat ass food grubbing penguin rapes like 85% of the cast or some shit.

[Tigerboi]

You're getting really zealous about making your point it seems, but uh....really dude.

Who do you think you're talking to when it comes to balance? Nigga, I play marvel and 3S. This game has 35 characters in it; I.E. there's no way in hell it's going to balanced.


But I'm not going to say a characters sucks and not try to explore them for myself first. Tiers overall only end up having most people GENERALLY agree on how they should look.

And this is only comong from fighting game tier history and my own play experience. I'll never forget the crowd of people saying that Sent won't make it to MvC2 competitive play. Now it doesn't exsist without his broken ass. Oh, and how the hailstorm is slow and shitty....and how headcrush was the best super in the game.


Nigga, shit changes. The tiers lists you see in just about every big fighting game out there weren't established in a month.

[EmblemLord]

But...MvC2 is a deep game.

Brawl is...is....UGH!!!!

*runs out of the thread crying.

[Tigerboi]

If you're not going to counterpoint, why post? it's like you're childishly trying to get the last word in.

shit doa4 isn't a deep game, but the tier list for that game has changed drastically and plenty of times ever since it's release. I said just about EVERY big fighting game.

[Sonichuman]

hey tigerboi...this doesn't really have to do with brawl but i figured you might wanna see this possible april fools joke...

Legend of Zelda movie:
http://movies.ign.com/articles/863/863492p1.html

[EmblemLord]

lol.

Chill out.

I'm messing around. Can no one have fun here?

[Tigerboi]

No.

Anyway, TLs edgegaurding is just too good. The fucking bair+dair bullshit is just nuts. It's like marth only with great horizontal recovery.

[beatsofdevil]

Whoo, when I heard Toon Link was gonna be in (I love teh linkz and seldaz!) I knew I wanted to main him...but it sounds like he's top-tier now...hmm...awesome I guess :D

yeah, Link is not as fun to play with as Melee...le sigh

[mastermind]

I'm pretty inconsistent with my RAR bairs for TL. Any tips? I run towards, short hop towards and hold back to turn in the air, then bair. That right?

[mcginnis]

You have to turn before you jump. Pretty sure about that but I could be wrong. :razz:

[Capn Spanky]

You have to turn before you jump. Pretty sure about that but I could be wrong. :razz:

That's how I've been doing it. I'm not pro though, so I could be all n00b and doing something wrong.

I don't want to diss Link at all, but Toon Link is just amazing compared to the big guy. The lack of knockback is totally made up for by the priority. Plus, TLink's boomerang give hims such great mindgames. Throwing the boomerang downward from a short hop, then going into a guessing game with your opponent just gets too good.

[mcginnis]

Yea, he's pretty beastly; I throw the boomerang over the opponent and start attacking. By the time they try to attack back they have to block, dodge, or keep attacking which would be disrupted by my boomerang.

[Corner-Trap]

I'm pretty inconsistent with my RAR bairs for TL. Any tips? I run towards, short hop towards and hold back to turn in the air, then bair. That right?

1) Run forward
2) Hit back (like a pivot)
3) Jump
4) Do a Bair

Pretty simple, I love spamming the hell out of it.

[Tigerboi]

Against heavy characters, RAR with TL is just nuts. He can combo d3 off the stage using it alone.

It's even useful agianst light characters like Shiek for edgegaurds and shit. Plus setting it up is real easy. Just down throw or start it off of a two hit dair and low percentages.

[Shinto]

Fudge it, I got it wrong...but T.Link got a weird weight about him....like floating and shit....

[No defence]

I never played Smash Brawl. First time player....... played for 6 hours straight last night. Loved it. TOON LINK is mad easy for me to play with. I feel in control.

Never played any of the Smash games because I could not find a character I was comfortable with.

Playing Toon Link feels like I am playing Ninja Gaiden.:cool::rock: (the Demon color with the pink eyes.)

I am hardcore CVS2 player. But I am having a blast with Smash. I want in on the Smash community. Cvs2 is still crazy...... But will trade it all to play with toon link.:nunchuck:

[No defence]

You make very terrible posts.

I want to learn Toon Link.

Make a your own thread some day.:woot:

[omfg]

I just learned how to play him today. It's strange, he's like Jigglypuff with a sword

I think he's better than Link, but people are taking things WAY out of proportion. For one he is NOT legions greater than Link. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Toon Link stays more in the air I think.. Link has more to gain by being grounded. They fight differently, so trying to compare them is weird.. kinda like comparing Donkey and Diddy. His extreme floatiness put me off at first but as I got better in SSBB, I learned how to handle it.

edit: i notice people refer to TL and camping a lot. by camping, do you mean the spamming of arrows, boomerang, bombs, etc.? if that's the case, why not just go Link for that? His spam is much more effecient, plus he has moves that punish you for trying to punish him. I'd rather use TL for his sword than his B moves.

[JoeMasters]

Whoo, when I heard Toon Link was gonna be in (I love teh linkz and seldaz!) I knew I wanted to main him...but it sounds like he's top-tier now...hmm...awesome I guess :D

yeah, Link is not as fun to play with as Melee...le sigh


I disagree. I think Link is really fun to play in brawl. I actually like him better in this game. Spacing with his projectiles is fun and useful, his airs is too good, and he has good edge guarding. Plus TP link is bomb:hitit:

@Emblemlord: plz hop off linkz dik kthx

[residentwaterfowl]

i notice people refer to TL and camping a lot. by camping, do you mean the spamming of arrows, boomerang, bombs, etc.? if that's the case, why not just go Link for that? His spam is much more effecient

TL's arrows can be used like Falco's SHDL (Short Hop Double Laser) since uncharged arrows go farther for him than they do for Link. He can spam them much more effectively

TL's bombs have a bigger blast radius despite lower damage/knockback.

TL's boomerang hits on the way back unlike Link's. Makes it easier to control spacing and can aid in combos.

[omfg]

the arrows.. they're extremely slow though. I prefer Link's arrows and bombs, but I wouldn't mind Toon Link's boomerang. Link's can set up for some interesting situations, but Toon Link's boomerang is a savior even if it does take a while to throw

[residentwaterfowl]

The slow arrows make his SHDA into a wall, similar to SHDHM for Samus. It makes his arrows great for zoning and spacing and makes his ability to camp that much better than Link's.

I got a question, though...in regards to tether recovery, I think TL's hookshot sweetspots ledges while Link's clawshot doesn't BUT I don't use either enough to be completely sure. Can someone enlighten me?

Also, do their pivot grabs offer ANY kind of usefulness? I tried it and didn't see a difference. Lucas, Samus and Yoshi's PGs have less lag than normal but TL's and Link's seem just as laggy and slow.

[CapMaster]

My friend tells me there's a way you can cancel out of Toon Link's down + A in mid air so you don't always go shooting off to your death if you miss. Is this true? If so, how do you do it?

[Alamut8o8]

My friend tells me there's a way you can cancel out of Toon Link's down + A in mid air so you don't always go shooting off to your death if you miss. Is this true? If so, how do you do it?

I don't know how to do that, but I also have another question regarding that. How do you make it so that dair+A goes slow instead of going really fast. Do you have to tilt it? I've done this a couple of times and I could never pull it off. It would only come out on accident.

[omfg]

no idea how to do either thing you two are talking about.

At first I stopped playing Link because I thought he sucked at building up damage, but he's actually an alright fighter. Bombs, if you use them well, can be used to combo with. That and his jab will devestate anything it outranges (and doesn't clash with). Link makes it hell for chars like Ice Climbers for instance because of his jab alone.

On a side note, anyone got a weight chart? I'm thinking Toon Link's bomb handling can be used in a similar manner, and if he's not as light as I think then I wouldn't mind using him.

[orochizoolander]

If just his arrows don't have a knockback effect (like fox's laser) then he would be fine I think.

When TLink sits below a platform shooting arrows at you. Its hard to get to him without taking massive damage. If you jump, you'll land on the platform, if you rush him, you get knock back by arrows, if you dodge around arrows, he can bair you. Best way in that situation was to grab. But with a slow grabber like ZSS, its not feasible.

If you have projectiles I guess you can shoot stuff back at him, but the amount of arrows he can pump out will usually nullfy that.

I am not saying hes invincible, but there are a lot of camping situations that makes it really difficult to get to him.

LOL tl's arrow do have knockback.

His arrows are kinda slow you don't know what you're talking about, yeah he's a good camper but with how good rolling, shielding, n airdodging is it's not that hard to get close to him or any character...cept snake.

Toon Link is much better than Link. He's fast, with lots of combo potential, good spacing, and excellent KO power. He really doesn't have much of a week spot.

LOL you couldn't be more wrong. TL has shitty range and it's a pretty damn noticeable weakness in competitive play.

^ You're wrong though. If TL whiffs an uair he gets punished for free, just like Link. That move has alot of recovery. And if link whiffs a up tilt agianst most characters at that range, he most likely will be forced to block but a generic n-a.

Infact, TL in general only has ok lag. His only spammable move is bair.

He gets punished for free if he misses the following:

Dair, uair, d-smash, up b, f-smash.

Those are just about all of KO moves right there.



Guys please, I've been playing him for hours. Trust me when I say his priority is crap. He also doesn't recover as well as Link. From my playtime he has a really had match against meta knight because meta beats him in reach AND priority.

TL is really good, but I feel you guys are giving him too much credit.

Also, stop trying to combo with Link. That makes as much sense as trying to combo with Ike. Jackasses.

and what exactly is so special about TL's keepaway? It's just like Link's but with less damage. -.-

I agree with all of this cept you forgot fair is one of his kill moves too, he doesn't have a hard time against mk actually he has a very slight advantage against him, and his keepaway game is really good but it takes good mixup skills to use it.

Throws really SUCK in this game. Seriously. I miss being able to down throw into a KO with Link.

I'm going to mess with links up-tilt more. it seems to be his only combo potency move.

Throws don't suck it's just that tl has a terrible one. If you think tl's only combo potential is with utilt you don't know how to play him.

amazing Toon Link player here
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XkTXdr4bW84
and here in finals of the same tourney
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pB1dFc0Wvms&feature=related

DieSuperFly / DSF, he's a fsckin beast

That is a beastly tl I think i'm getting that good with tl though online it's hard to see that lol stupid input lag.

And this is why the stage will be banned.

Try it with Zelda.

She can't be stopped.

I'm not joking.

LOL emblem lord and his silly incorrect posts so entertaining.

No. You don't understand.

She can't be stopped. Din's fire hits her opponent and the checkpoint if they try to camp her.

So she can take any checkpoint that her opponent gets to first.

Once she has the checkpoint, it's hers.

And Din's Fire can actually kill you, unlike Toon Link's projectiles.

The stage will be banned.

It's not a matter of her doing well on it.

It's a matter of her being unbeatable on it.

And it's not theory. One of my crewmates did this to me in our matches.

We both agreed that she can't be stopped after discussing it. There is nothing anyone can do.

I think only Zelda vs Zelda is viable on that stage.

LOL ladies and gentlemen this is the talk of a scrub.

My friend tells me there's a way you can cancel out of Toon Link's down + A in mid air so you don't always go shooting off to your death if you miss. Is this true? If so, how do you do it?

Yeah if you press down on the smash stick while ascending in the air in your jump then he does a dair but doesnt go down fast it's useless though. You can infinitely cancel his dair into another dair though assuming you're good enough to predict where your opponent will go. I've hit people with dair 6 times before touching the ground lol.