The Lucario Thread: Behold the Power of AURA

[LiftedResearch]

I think he (it?) deserves his own thread. Guy is serious business.

Anyway, discuss tips/tricks/strats/anything you want.

Let's start with some basics though.

Pros: Solid air and ground game, high combo potential, decent spacing ability, some good priority on most normals, disjointed hitbox, decent recovery, gets stronger as you take more damage.
Cons: Lack of a go-to KO move and generally weak damage potential, Grab range is pitiful and throws are lacking as well, you need to take more damage to get stronger.

Some thoughts on normals.

AAA Combo:
Useful, very useful. If you feel like it, you can also try for a dash grab, a tilt of your choice, a F-B, or an Aura Sphere to the face after the second punch. The reason I bring this up is because the last hit of the AAA combo, while it can kill, and has good knockback, it can make it hard to follow up because of that, and you want to be in the guy's face. But anyway, the combo has a lot of uses, and you can usually connect this after getting a couple of Fairs.

So, Fair - Fair - A- A- (whatever you want)

Dash Attack:
Lucario sticks his foot out and then hits the ground. Not the greatest dash attack, but it gets the job done. Pops them up, and if you get them with the end of it, you can usually chain it into a Utilt leading into some aerial madness. The actual range isn't that long, so be careful to get correct spacing when doing instant dash attacks or doing it normally.

- Also, Lucario can crawl. This is useful to get under certain projectiles or sometimes for approaching, as you can Dtilt from a crawl

TILTS

Utilt:
Fast, and useful, sweeps in an arc over his head, launches into the air, and usually the air is where you want the opponent to be with Lucario. It starts from his back and sweeps towards the front, so if you have them behind you and don't think a Dsmash will be fast enough, use Utilt. Also, if you get this at the end of your dash attack, it connects for free usually, and you may even be able to get two of them in. Afterwards, you can Nair or Usmash, or Uair or whatever you want. So, instant dash attack at the right distance could lead to a couple of these.

Ftilt:
I find this more useful than Fsmash. You do less damage, but it's MUCH faster, and leaves you less open to counter-attacks or just getting your attack beaten out by a quicker one.

Dtilt:
Also useful to pop them up into the air, and it is faster than it seems. This and Ftilt are good to use during AAA combos.

SMASHES

FSmash:
This thing can kill and has huge range (around two Lucario lengths away). It's a semi-useful spacing tool because of the huge disjointed hitbox on it. The downside? It's slow and takes forever to come out. Use caution with this as you can easily be stuffed by a quicker attack (and there are a whoooole bunch of things faster than this).

Dsmash:
This is probably the smash of choice for most people. Faster than Fsmash but still has some decent KO potential (we're talking like 120% which is pretty average). It hits both sides of you simultaneously, which is also useful to catch rollers. Doesn't have as much range, but it does cover both sides of you at the same time, so yeah, use it.

Usmash:
I'm personally not very fond of it, I'd rather use Uair or Utilt and then chase. It can kill, but not very well. If someone has more thoughts on its use, please let me know >_<

AERIALS

Uair:
The hitbox on this is a little strange, he sticks his leg out up and in front of him, but it still can hit on the other side of him. This move can get you aerial KOs if at high enough percentages, so it's worth chasing with.

Bair:
Some people like this move a lot (that guide on SWF says this is his "best" aerial), I personally do not agree. It has a sweetspot, which does do a good amount of damage, but it comes out somewhat slow, and has a relatively small hitbox. Another thing to note, like Nair, this move has a lot of lag, and cannot be repeated like Fair, Dair and Uair. Again, any more input would be appreciated, but I don't use this move very much in favor of Fair/Dair/Uair.

Nair:
Hits all around you, and has some pretty good knockback on it. The downside is that it lags when used early in a jump. However, if used while close to the ground, the move has close to no lag (EmblemLord brings up that the lag is 3 frames or so). So, this move is good to use after a Fair, as it comes out very quickly and at the right distance above the ground will have next to no lag, setting up follow-ups of your choice. Another thing to note is that it has more knockback/does more damage if you connect right as the move comes out, rather than brushing them with the hitbox.

Fair:
This is probably the move you're going to use the most, along with Dair. Kicks out in front of him with good range and some nice priority, and upon connecting, you're usually able to get your choice of another Fair, Dair or Nair afterward. Doing two of them in a row, you can even get an AAA combo when you hit the ground, and follow that up with whatever you want. In any case, you're going to be using this a lot.

Dair:
THE TWO STEP OF FURY! This is arguably Lucario's best move. Very fast, surprising range below his feet, and good knockback/KO potential. A good move to use when edgeguarding/chasing flyers. Also has little lag. You can use this right after a jump and it will stop your upward momentum, letting you fall right back onto the ground. Also, if you can get a footstool jump, you can get an unblockable hit by Dair'ing right afteward!

THROWS

Uthrow:
Lucario will throw the opponent upwards in front of him. At very low percentages against fast fallers, you *may* be able to chaingrab. Otherwise, you can try to follow up with some aerial combos.

Dthrow:
Kind of like Uthrow, except he bounces the opponent off the ground, causing them to fly much higher. Not so useful if you're trying to follow directly, but it does give you a bit of breathing room.

Fthrow:
Just throws them out in front of you, nothing flashy.

Bthrow:
Bounces them off the ground, and they fly horizontally away from you. This one actually has some KO potential. If they're around 130% or so, Bthrowing when your back is to the edge just might score you a kill. Keep that in mind if you're aiming to just KO them straight off.

All in all, Lucario's throw game is nothing great...add to that his absolutely pitiful grab range and even dash grab range, and it becomes obvious that throwing is not one of your best options.

SPECIALS

N-B: Aura Sphere
Pretty much the same as Mewtwo's old fireball. You can charge it up, cancel your charge with a dash or guard, and let it loose whenever you need. I do find this move VERY useful, however, as it helps Lucario deal with tough in-close but rangey opponents (Meta, Marth, Ike) etc, and is an effective zoning tool otherwise. I use it all the time, and it is very effective. Especially after your % has gone up a little, and this thing really starts hitting hard, it becomes a somewhat effective KO move. Using this out of shield is also very good, or after an AAA combo...or while chasing...there are just a lot of instances where this thing can be useful. So use it, and use it well.

Side-B: Force Palm:
This move is tricky, but can pay off. At close range, it's a grab, otherwise, it's kind of like an Ftilt. The grab version, at very low percentages, is Lucario's chaingrab. It can be tricky to set up and pull off, but it is there. This thing doesn't KO, but it's there if you need to get it off during an AA combo or something.

D-B: Me First
Lucario's counter. I don't really like it that much.
Some input from Rioting Soul:

"-His counter gets stuffed on the first few frames of start up(as does Ike's). The energy-charging sound plays but Lucario still gets hit.

-You can counter pikmin if they are clinging to him. And since Lucario gets a bonus when he gets higher damage, this is an interesting match. If you counter the clinging pikmin then you will teleport kick where you were, not where Olimar is. Pikmin guarantees a counter activation, if they cling then you can close in with something extra under your sleeve."

U-B: Extremespeed
His third jump. You have a lot of control over the direction of this move. It's hard to explain, but the move recognizes the the path you set out for it. So, if you roll the control stick from up-left to up after activating the move, he'll go up left and up. It takes a bit of experimenting to get used to, but it allows for a variety of approaches back to the stage. I use it horizontally sometimes to evade edgeguarders or to sweetspot horizontally. One thing to note is that this thing goes very far. Another thing is that if you bounce yourself off the ground, you have slightly less lag than just landing normally.

(Some strategy thoughts and notes probably to be added later)

[Shade]

His Down A Smash is groovy. Standing AAA is great too. Last hit has great knock back power.

[IceTrap]

I have been trying to see the timing for an A-A-Charged B but it seems that there is enough time for the opponent to shield or roll. But depending on how late in the game you are you could possible set a player up to want to roll back when you catch them with A-A and then BAM a charge b ftw.

DAir is also amazing for the fact that it delays your fall, I have been able to float down use DAir to avoid someone USmash and then fall quickly and catch them with a DAir before they could get another USmash off.

Just remember the DAir is not unbeatable, a lot of people can beat it with an USmash or UTilt. But we can work this to our advantage, if you know they are going to UTilit or are charging an USmash just Down B (counter) and it is a free 16% and knocks them up for you to follow up on.


Depending on the stage, when I get knocked off High and to the Right/Left I will just fall and charge the Ball. It can get full by the time you are just above the stage and if people come to try and stop you, you can fire the ball off right away and try to out manouver them in the air (DAir) or some people will see the Big ball of doom and get scared and just sit at the edge. This is your chance to launch it at them and the Up B to the edge.

These are just some basic things I do off the top of my head, I'll add more as I find them.

Let's take Lucario to the TOP!

[LiftedResearch]

Good point, i've been owned by a lot of people's Usmash thinking i could beat it with a Dair.

Knockoff/popup, Fair, Fair, Dair is so reminiscent of playing as Marth. Chase your enemies!!!

[Rioting Soul]

Copied and pasted from the pokemon thread:

-His counter gets stuffed on the first few frames of start up(as does Ike's). The energy-charging sound plays but Lucario still gets hit.

-You can counter pikmin if they are clinging to him. And since Lucario gets a bonus when he gets higher damage, this is an interesting match. If you counter the clinging pikmin then you will teleport kick where you were, not where Olimar is. Pikmin guarantees a counter activation, if they cling then you can close in with something extra under your sleeve.

-I have a love/hate relationship with d+Air. Sometimes that shit beats out characters on both sides of him but will often get stuffed by attacks BELOW him. And you can get a D+Air on the ground by pressing holding down and pressing Jump~A. I haven't found any real applications but I have been doing AA~Instant D+Air into some followups but I didn't verify if it was an actual combo. I love small jump f+Air~d+Air. Sonichuman and I call it HM2F2(Hold My Mother Fucking Feet).

-Fully charged Aura Spheres get canceled out by one pikmin.

-Back-turned charging Aura Sphere actually hits. I can't wait to see the combo vids.

[PozerWolf]

He's good, but rather weak.
In general, his damage comes from "somewhat decent" to "good" whenever getting beat up.

Thats really the only downfall I see in him.

That, and his Down+Smash is too fast lol.
Which is both a good and a bad thing.
Good = Well, a fast with with good recovery, whats not to like. And being its a smash attack, so damn fast.
Bad = Because of its speed, there are times its hard to punish certain characters rules because its only active for such a short time. But then again, thats more of a player issue than anything.

With that said, <3 Lucario!

[EmblemLord]

Ok time for some approach strats.

Basically with Lucario it's all about the mix-ups he has with his Fair.

You can SH Fair and it creates this trail of aura your opponent has to get past if they want to attack you. After that first fair ends you have options.

You can Fair again. If you DI back while doing this you will remian very safe but it will be harder to follow-up with. Only DI back if you think it won't hit or you think they will block. If you DI forward you can land and then do AAA or grab.

You could Dair. This move is awesome. Great priority and very safe. Also a decent kill move. This combos after a fair hits as well. Use this whenyou know they will block and you want to keep the pressure on.

You can Nair. This thing is awesome. NO ATTACK LAG WHEN YOU LAND. Only land lag, which is 3 frames, which is nothing. Also Nair is a decent kill move too. At low percents it can be comboed afterwards. But it's great to use when you know an opponent will block, since it is very safe. So you can do this on a shielding opponent, then when you land you can roll, spot dodge, AAA combo, do a tilt, use double team, or grab. The most reliable things to do are AAA combo and roll/spotdodge. Nair to AAA only works at low percents though since once they hit about 20% the Nair sends them farther, but then you could start going for grabs or chase them.

Also use crawling more. Crawling is awesome since you can move forwards or backwards without turning around, but you move fast in the direction you are facing. But crawling is awesome for spacing and lets you get past certain projectiles easier.

Also here are some random tidbits.

Lucario can chain grab with his Force Palm (Side B). At close range it's a grab. Only works at low percents. He can also use his u-throw as a combo set-up at low percents. I don't know if he can chian grab with it, but it looks like he could. But at low percents doing Fair, Fair, U-throw, Fair, Nair, AAA is pretty easy. At high percents yopu really couldn't get that whole thing off, but it gives you an idea of what Lucario is capable of. He is one of the few characters in Brawl capable of long combo chains. At low percents anyway.

IMO Lucarios strongest point is that he is extremely safe and crawling gives himm an extra spacing tool. And since he uses Aura his poking/spacing game is very strong.

[LiftedResearch]

Some very good points, Emblem, especially about the Forcepalm chain grab. Uthrow as a chaingrab is a little iffy (would have to be against a fast faller at close to 0%), and so it is definitely good to consider the Forcepalm. Following up is also a little iffy. In fact, Lucario's throw game is really nothing special...

[EmblemLord]

Well, U-throw chain grab probably wouldn't work. But u-throw as a set-up works well since they go no where.

[Shade]

Lucario's Left/Right ground dodge is kinda awesome.

[IceTrap]

Sorry to ask this but I am still a bit new to smash, What is DI and spot dodge.

[LiftedResearch]

DI - directional influence. When you're in the air and you hold a direction, you're able to move your character in that direction.

Spot dodge - Guard + Down. Where you dodge in place.

[Sp00ky]

You can use his AAA combo to setup up grabs for instance you can do just A then grab. You can also do AA then grab or side B. These grab setups make lucario annoying opponent to deal with. Also keep in mind the fact that when you take damage you deal extra so this also makes him a comeback character. Their is a chart somewhere on smashboards for it. After 200% of damage done to you the damage increase doesn't happen anymore.

Doing Dair can punish shield grabs because it is 2 hits. Like what you guys been mentioning do fair, dair. You can either whiff fair and go into dair to hit them and they mash a shield grab or they shield your fair and Dair if they shield grab your fair.

This is tinshi BTW not SPOOKY

[Lavi]

For the past two days I've been using Lucario with mixed results. I realize the game is still new but are there any match ups to be wary of when using Lucario?

[Shade]

Lucario has no real character weaknesses. At least, that's the conclusion I've come to from personally play. Lucario is well rounded ability wise, so it's hard to exploit anything on him, if you know what you're doing.

[EmblemLord]

Lucario is weak vs people that can kill early and those that have little trouble with his disjointed hitboxes.

So Marth, Ike, Snake would be among his harder match-ups.

[LiftedResearch]

Lucario is weak vs people that can kill early and those that have little trouble with his disjointed hitboxes.

So Marth, Ike, Snake would be among his harder match-ups.

Agreed. He dies fast, so if you mess up really bad three or so times against Ike or another really hard hitter, it's -1 stock.

As much as Lucario can zone and space with his aura hitboxes, if you get zoned, it can be hard to get back in, and you'll end up having to mix up aura spheres to open up approaches. So against a character like Dedede, who has huge killing power and zones well, you may have a tough time getting in and staying in after taking some hits.

You really have to be prepared to work hard to get kills with Lucario. Your huge 7 or 8 hit combo equals one Ike Fsmash, or less. That said, if you get someone in your web of easily chainable attacks, they're in pretty bad shape.

[Shade]

I don't know. Besides Snake, Marth and Ike don't have much in the way of ranged attacks. If push comes to shove, keep your distance, and they aren't a threat.

And that reminds me. EL, I think it's about time we duke it out in Brawl. Seriously. Friend Code is in the sig.

[EmblemLord]

Later man.

Going to bed soon.

LOL.

Can't keep staying up till 7 in the morning playing Brawl. lol.

[Shade]

I mean, of course at the best available time. Not now. I didn't even know you were still online.

[NeegroCancel]

Copied and pasted from the pokemon thread:

-His counter gets stuffed on the first few frames of start up(as does Ike's). The energy-charging sound plays but Lucario still gets hit.

-You can counter pikmin if they are clinging to him. And since Lucario gets a bonus when he gets higher damage, this is an interesting match. If you counter the clinging pikmin then you will teleport kick where you were, not where Olimar is. Pikmin guarantees a counter activation, if they cling then you can close in with something extra under your sleeve.

-I have a love/hate relationship with d+Air. Sometimes that shit beats out characters on both sides of him but will often get stuffed by attacks BELOW him. And you can get a D+Air on the ground by pressing holding down and pressing Jump~A. I haven't found any real applications but I have been doing AA~Instant D+Air into some followups but I didn't verify if it was an actual combo. I love small jump f+Air~d+Air. Sonichuman and I call it HM2F2(Hold My Mother Fucking Feet).

-Fully charged Aura Spheres get canceled out by one pikmin.

-Back-turned charging Aura Sphere actually hits. I can't wait to see the combo vids.

you both win the internet.:rofl:

[Tigerboi]

IT'S CRAB TIME BABEH.

yes, his f+air is retarded.

[Dima]

His d-air is really good, you can actually hit peoples shields and not get punished for it as it has no landing lag afterwards.

I think his d-air will be come his bread and butter in this game.

I stole this from DD's thread on smashboards.

the damage multiplier works like this.

0% - x1.0
50% - ~x1.25(1.23)
100% - ~x1.50(1.53)
150% - ~x1.75 (1.84)
200% - x2.00

I brawl living to 200% isn't very hard, not a walk in the park either.

[LiftedResearch]

First post has been updated a bit.

Useful information there too, Dima.

Anyway, Lucario is the fuckin' truth. If he had a solid, go-to KO move he'd be broken :lol:

[Rioting Soul]

Here's a few match videos of me against some friends. If anybody can give me any pointers(other than "don't miss the edge when you u+B", I'm working on that) you're more than welcome. Also, I'm ready to use d+b ALOT LESS against people that aren't Olimar because that shit is starting to piss me off.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Sonichuman

EDIT: Sonichuman is uploading as I type this, so many of our matches aren't available at the moment. He's on the 19th(out of about 35 matches) one right now.

[LiftedResearch]

Here's a few match videos of me against some friends. If anybody can give me any pointers(other than "don't miss the edge when you u+B", I'm working on that) you're more than welcome. Also, I'm ready to use d+b ALOT LESS against people that aren't Olimar because that shit is starting to piss me off.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Sonichuman

EDIT: Sonichuman is uploading as I type this, so many of our matches aren't available at the moment. He's on the 19th(out of about 35 matches) one right now.

If I had to offer you advice (not that I'm the best Lucario player around, but yeah), I'd say you definitely need more offense. Far too often you're standing still, waiting for them to attack. I watched maybe three or four of Sonic's videos, and vs. both Sonic and Olimar there are points where you are content to sit back and wait a while before doing something. If you are sitting back, you need to be doing something. Try throwing out (or even spamming) more un-charged fireballs when you're sitting back in defense mode. Unless you're playing against a character than can spam fireballs back at you, they'll probably be forced to jump over them towards you, or sit there and block the things. That'll open up your air game, as you do have a lot of priority to get right in there and attack.

Basically, your Lucario isn't pressing the issue enough. You can go toe-to-toe with pretty much everyone, and you shouldn't be afraid to get in there and get hit. Lucario's attacks chain so well, if you get into an in close situation where you're trading blows, you have two fast moves in Dair and Nair that can more than likely bail you out. In fact, you should be just fine with getting hit (not that you should try to or anything), as it ultimately raises your KO power, and makes your fireballs that much better.

Don't be afraid to chase! Often, you get a Fair sending them off the edge, and then you back off and wait for another option. You have to follow that up! Use your second jump, throw out a Fair/Nair/Dair, anything. If you do have a charged fireball, jump up and throw it at them. Oftentimes this can alter their recovery if there's a big aura sphere in their path, helping you get more chasing opportunities. I did notice that when you were completely on the offensive, you had way more success than when you were sitting back waiting for their move.

Just put more offense out there, and you should be fine. I'd totally be willing to play you sometime, if you'd like. I need to improve my own Lucario as well...

EDIT: Just as a side note, it also does depend on who you're playing against, as going all-out against some opponents that zone really well can get you killed fast (ie Lucas). In those situations, you have to really watch your spacing and take advantage of opportunities when you get them by connecting with combos.

[Daemonk]

Listen to Lifted or he'll eat your babies...with Lucario.

Just from playing Lifted, I can see Lucario's chasing potential. Even though he has that fireball, I don't think Lucario is a very good defensive character. I think he does extremely well when he is on the move, pressuring the opponent.

[LiftedResearch]

What's funny is that on SWF they have a completely different view of him. Most have basically labeled him as a defensive character, and that his "defensive playstyle attracts calmer players." While I understand that being patient with Lucario can pay off, I'd rather get in there and press the issue. I guess that's just the way I play though...

There are definitely times where you have to play some defense with Lucario, but I think he is much better at getting in there and getting damage. I need to work on some new offensive setups...

[Rioting Soul]

Thank you so much for those pointers. Looking back at those matches, it does look like I should go on the offensive more. I stop because I try to concentrate so I can actually react to Sonic's BS, but it never works out. Is there a block string that can't be shield grabbed? I did SH Fair~Fair, SH Fair~Fair against that Olimar player and he said he couldn't shield grab it.

Sonichuman's best friend's little brother is over here now and we playing Brawl. I couldn't do shit against his Link.

[LiftedResearch]

Can't be shieldgrabbed...hmm. Your fastest option would be to land after doing a Nair. Fair -> Nair has very low lag, so if you're getting shieldgrabbed by Sonic or something after two Fairs try switching it up to a Nair afterward.

[Elements]

Yea the smashboards tend to think lucario is calm and defensive minded. I find when I play D with Lucario I get creamed. Hence playing D you wouldn't take as much dmg as you would on offense which can lead to an increase of dmg and your chances of a ko hit. IE It's a double edged sword. I'm able to chain grab heavy chars like bowser or D3 with F+B quite easily and when myself and enemy are dodge back and forth together I use F+B and I get the grab. I wish his D+A would spike like Falco/Fox a little more. When snake used his Up+B to recover off the screen I D+A'd him and instead of being knocked off he just took the dmg =/ Other than that I enjoy playing lucario and puting disbelievers in their spot. >.> Ike fans at my local lan cafe tend to hate the few lucario players that are around. I plan on having some vids up soon. Just need to get that ethernet adapter from Gamestop so I can play online.

[chopa]

Anybody have any advice on beating Link with the old dog?

[LiftedResearch]

If they're camping, zoning, it's like facing TLink or Lucas, and it's going to be tough. Watch your spacing carefully, stay out of range of his smashes as you approach, and then when you see an opening, hit him with the large hitbox of a Fair or Nair. You're probably going to be approaching with Fairs. Link and TLink can be a little tougher to fireball spam back at, as they can block your fireballs if they just stand there. Basically, be patient, and punish his ass with a combo when you get the chance. Watch out more for the bombs than the boomerangs, and just get in when you can. Link is sort of heavy, so you can tag him with some nice combos.

If they're an offensive Link that wants to get in your face :lol:, show him the power of aura and combo his ass to death. He can't go toe to toe with you, but be wary of Dsmashes. Also, look out for Dairs if you're chasing upwards.

[asianxcore]

With Lucario...

A) How often should I use the Aura Sphere and how long to charge. The only time I've been using it is protecting edges for anyone landing to short/shallow.

B) How often should I be dashing? I love how far Lucario travels via dash or shield/into dash. He puts good amount of spacing between you and the opponent, making it nice to end up behind someone and start his Aura Combos.

Also is it worth it to shield/into dash when you are about to hit the ground? I find it sort of makes up for the fact Lucario is kind of floaty.

C) Does F + B Smash have a weird hit box?

I am a Smash n00b, so apologize ahead of time if these are dumb questions or they don't make sense. I find that things go either way if I play defensive Lucario. I find that I can only roll things my way in a match (defensively) if I get my timing/hits down with D+A in the air.

This is the first Smash game I am really trying to learn and Lucario has become my main. I feel sort of weird playing as anyone but him in the roster of characters.

[scum gale 88]

With Lucario...

A) How often should I use the Aura Sphere and how long to charge. The only time I've been using it is protecting edges for anyone landing to short/shallow.


I usually do random aura spheres to keep the opponent busy, while theyre blocking/rolling you can advance and attack or whatever.

[LiftedResearch]

With Lucario...

A) How often should I use the Aura Sphere and how long to charge. The only time I've been using it is protecting edges for anyone landing to short/shallow.

B) How often should I be dashing? I love how far Lucario travels via dash or shield/into dash. He puts good amount of spacing between you and the opponent, making it nice to end up behind someone and start his Aura Combos.

Also is it worth it to shield/into dash when you are about to hit the ground? I find it sort of makes up for the fact Lucario is kind of floaty.

C) Does F + B Smash have a weird hit box?

I am a Smash n00b, so apologize ahead of time if these are dumb questions or they don't make sense. I find that things go either way if I play defensive Lucario. I find that I can only roll things my way in a match (defensively) if I get my timing/hits down with D+A in the air.

This is the first Smash game I am really trying to learn and Lucario has become my main. I feel sort of weird playing as anyone but him in the roster of characters.

A) If you're against a reflector-happy opponent, or a character with a reflector at all, use it sparingly, only when you're not in danger of getting it thrown back in your face (i.e. edgeguard or chasing). Otherwise, use it as much as you want, charge it only until you need to launch it. All variations of the shot are pretty good, and they only get better the more damage you take.

B)Personally I approach from the air moreso than by dashing. His dash attack is okay, but his Fair, Nair and Dair are way better to use on approach. I'd only dash attack when you're somewhat within striking distance. Otherwise try attacking from the air. I'm not quite sure what you mean by shield/dash upon landing...

C) F-B's hitbox is basically wherever the aura is. Nothing more and nothing less. If you're up close, it becomes a grab. It's a pretty useful move, but don't spam it as it does have somewhat of a lag on it.

[asianxcore]

Thanks for the tips! I tend to dash a lot. The habit has gotten so bad, I started to do it just before my landings now.

How often do you use D + B smash for counters with Lucario? Should it be used sparingly?

[M3D]

With Lucario...

A) How often should I use the Aura Sphere and how long to charge. The only time I've been using it is protecting edges for anyone landing to short/shallow.

B) How often should I be dashing? I love how far Lucario travels via dash or shield/into dash. He puts good amount of spacing between you and the opponent, making it nice to end up behind someone and start his Aura Combos.

Also is it worth it to shield/into dash when you are about to hit the ground? I find it sort of makes up for the fact Lucario is kind of floaty.

C) Does F + B Smash have a weird hit box?

I am a Smash n00b, so apologize ahead of time if these are dumb questions or they don't make sense. I find that things go either way if I play defensive Lucario. I find that I can only roll things my way in a match (defensively) if I get my timing/hits down with D+A in the air.

This is the first Smash game I am really trying to learn and Lucario has become my main. I feel sort of weird playing as anyone but him in the roster of characters.


A) Aura Sphere should be your bread and butter. It keeps all your other moves from getting stale moves degradation if you pop those out there whenever you aren't directly fighting. If your opponent is adept at avoiding them but refuses to approach, feel free to charge it up and then go on the offensive yourself. You should also be charging aura sphere anytime you are recovering back towards the stage in the air and are above the plane of the main platform. This essentially forces your opponent to shield or run away from the ledge, giving you a free pass to grab the ledge and get back into the fighting.

B)Dashes should get mixed into a healthy range of approach tactics. Dash attack, dash grab or jump into aerials. Make sure to either pop off of a few balls of aura sphere or charge one up before you dash on the ground though, because you want your opponent on the defensive. Just dashing at someone and letting them shield your attack is going to get you shield-grabbed all day.

C) the Over+B (force palm) attack does have some weird characteristics. Up close there is a grabbing hitbox and then a kind of bloated triangular hitbox that does damage and knockback. Some opponents can be pseudo-chain-grabbed with it at low percentages. You forward smash is a better striking move with comparable range, so use that more often, but force palm has a shorter start-up so its better to use if you have to execute something quickly on the ground. However, your tilts and aerials are much better for dealing with pressure from opponents so choose your attacks wisely.

[omfg]

Well that was very strange. The main poster said absolutely everything I could've ever said about Lucario. The only things I view differently from him are the counter, Lucario's F-smash, and his D-smash.

The counter: I think that it's EXCELLENT when you use it on certain attacks vs high % people, and people do tend to throw out attacks that are very obvious.

D-smash: Although this is good for getting people off your balls, that short range hurts more than you'd think. Seriously, don't use this unless you feel really threatened. Not saying it's bad, just saying it's not an offense.

F-smash: even if you miss, if you use this move at its absolute range you should be fine unless they jump or use a counter move. You should use this on edges rather than in the middle of a stage.. you gotta play Lucario like he's a sumo wrestler.

That said, is it just me or is Lucario very light or something? As soon as I get 100%, I seem to die out pretty quickly. I never get to use the full effect of the high damage power thing, which is pretty sad because it's pretty powerful. Aura Sphere, whether it's choice fully charged fireballs or the tinier spammable version of the move, is pretty damn strong. His throw also becomes insanely powerful. I just skimmed through the thread real fast and I don't know if anyone has said it yet, but his throw is highly mashable. All of this combined makes a hurt Lucario very dangerous. If there's an effecient strategy for keeping him alive, Lucario will easily be top tier.

[ChipmunkDJE]

Lucario is great in both FFA and 1v1. All of the above info is great, but I wanted to just generally toss in my 2 cents...

1) The counter is GREAT, but only on the ground. Don't use it frequently as your opponent can change into a juke/throw style to get around you, but it can get you kills just on its own. With the knockback the counter has, you can jump into the air and follow up with his sphere or setup other tricks.
But, this move seems to always suck in the air. It's not that hard to activate it, but you almost always miss. "Missing" leaves you very vulnerable and gets you killed pretty quickly (as I have seen many times from my own experience just trying it out).

2) The Side+B seems to be best only as a "special grab". If you aren't grabbing them, the lag seems slow enough that people can react easily to the move. Furthermore, the little damage they get for being hit by the ranged version seems paltry compared to the power it has as a grab. I actually like this more than his regular grabs in many instances. If I ever need 'range', I've always got his F-Smash. Speaking of which...

3) Is the F-Smash not frickin' amazing? I don't know about you guys, but it feels like it's got the range, if not a little longer, than Marth in Melee (who I used religiously). You can EASILY out range your opponent in many matches, and that's even how I beat Link - I zone him.
In fact, I don't have too much of a hard time with Link, and the matchup gets easier the better I learn his counters. You can handle his range game, you are better than him in the air, you can easily see and counter his D-Air (especially Toon Link... shuts him down completely once this move is taken out of T. Links arsenal), and you zone him on the ground with Sphere and F-Smash. He doesn't have a whole lot to do about you in the air except his U-Tilt and U-Smash, which you can work your way around. I dunno, maybe I just haven't played a good Link yet, but I think this matchup is in YOUR favor, not the other way around.

4) For those needing to "extend life": Lucario is a great aggressor, no doubt, but he feels weakest at about 90-100%-ish. Around this point, I think its actually BETTER to play defensive than aggressive. Lucario's style can easily switch from either at any time, but you want to STAY ALIVE at 100% and rack up more damage. Once you hit 130-140+, his aura seems powered up enough to overcome his fragility with enough force to viably rush again. And once you reach this threshold, Lucario is a frickin' monster.

5) For online anon playing - This guy seems to ALWAYS WIN sudden death. Maybe it's because you start at 300%, I dunno... Having "smash attacks" for your entire aura'd arsenal just seems unbalanced in your favor.

Chippy

[omfg]

whoa, great in FFA? I've only done well with him in FFA once reaching 100% or after getting a smashball. I think he's unbelievable 1v1 though

[ChipmunkDJE]

Maybe it's just my rediculous amount of experience of FFA (that's what I primarily played in Melee), but I don't have a hard time keeping him alive in FFA.

Why do I think he's great? Sphere and F-Smash are both great attacks to launch into other people's battles. The counter also is AMAZING in FFA. If you have multiple people coming at you, all you need is 1 counter to take them all out. IMO, its better than the Marth/Ike counter because you teleport behind the group and then attack - Great for when you are completely surrounded (Marth/Ike won't hit people behind).

The damage scaling just makes him that much better. There are times you may have to play 'run away', but you should be a beast.

And besides, FFA is the only time you can hit someone with his Final Smash anyways. :P

Chippy

[omfg]

alright, here's something to add.

D-smash: Use it ONLY when people are behind you. the portion of the attack behind Lucario has range; the front part gains absolutely nothing. Pretty good move, sometimes I turn my back to my enemy just to get the chance to do this move. On the subject of turning his back, charging a fireball or catching a predictable jumpin with B-air almost makes it worth playing with Lucario's back turned the majority of the fight.

F-smash: this move is better than I thought. This is THE ground melee move to use. it's spammable, and the fire on the end is disjointed yet still packs a pretty hard hit. Escaping that is pretty hard

Aura Sphere: if someone is stupid enough to jump at you without preparation while you're charging it up, you can counter them by simply waiting on them to DI (I think for them to escape, they have to DI in front of you) and then shoot it. Free combo. also, although it's good fully charged, you don't have to use the fully charged version of this move each time. the little fireballs are good for building up damage and forcing your opponents up into the air.

Lucario may be weak, but he can build up damage quickly. I think of the aura power as a plus, especially since his smashes, D-air, and B-air can move the opponent around. The aura power just adds to him imo. Before, he could build up damage and attempt to kill. With aura, he can build up damage and straight up kill. also, for those having trouble vs Ike, I think his counter is fast enough to deal with most of Ike's moves. I'm still trying to see all the things countering can do. So far, I've learned to use it against Pikachu's thunderstorm, which was harder than I thought but kinda worth it. Not sure if it can be used well against regular attacks yet, but I'll find out.

[ChipmunkDJE]

The counter seems to have the same timing as Marth's from Melee, just a split second later. Otherwise it feels the same (if not better) to me.

You are right about the downsmash - sometimes its best to clear people off of you in FFA, but many times a well placed counter does this better. I guess this move is the poop in 1v1?

I'm having trouble with Game & Watch, though... $%^&er is a beast. Your sphere is completely negated by G&M's bucket, and he just seems to stuff almost all of my moves. You never have to worry about the dropping key (just counter), but when you get chaired over and over, what do you do? G&M got the super buff from Melee it feels like, but maybe its just the matchup.

Ike is easy, just like almost the entire heavy cast (sans Wolf). Your counter is your best weapon, as well as being faster and/or having more range. Your aura helps makeup for the difference in weight. It doesn't help that most people spam his SLOWEST moves...

Chippy

[omfg]

The counter seems to have the same timing as Marth's from Melee, just a split second later. Otherwise it feels the same (if not better) to me.

You are right about the downsmash - sometimes its best to clear people off of you in FFA, but many times a well placed counter does this better. I guess this move is the poop in 1v1?

I'm having trouble with Game & Watch, though... $%^&er is a beast. Your sphere is completely negated by G&M's bucket, and he just seems to stuff almost all of my moves. You never have to worry about the dropping key (just counter), but when you get chaired over and over, what do you do? G&M got the super buff from Melee it feels like, but maybe its just the matchup.

Ike is easy, just like almost the entire heavy cast (sans Wolf). Your counter is your best weapon, as well as being faster and/or having more range. Your aura helps makeup for the difference in weight. It doesn't help that most people spam his SLOWEST moves...

Chippy
oh. when i was talking about D-smash, I was referring to 1v1. actualy all that info was to 1v1, not FFA. not sure how to play him in FFA at all.. so I just try to stick with a weakened opponent.

I played an Ike today. It was laggy, but I have to say.. it's hard for Lucario to approach Ike. It's not impossible to fight that match, but because of Ike's reach, straight up attacking is hard. In fact, the only time I was able to attack a lot is after landing that jab combo. otherwise, it was shield grabbing, Force Palm, and Aura Sphere

[ChipmunkDJE]

Played an Ike earlier 1v1 and didn't have much of a problem. Your F-Smash has better reach. Countered Every Aether thrown, maybe that helped.

Is it just me, or do the sword characters have the same drawback as in Melee - The sword can be "hit". I don't know if it was lag, but there were times where my range was just right where only the aura of the F-Smash clashed with Ike's sword, and I hit him without being hit back...

Sphere + F-Smash + Counter seemed to be all I needed. But then again, that Ike could have sucked...

Chippy

[chopa]

Best thing about the counter is if you do it in the air it'll bring you back down to the stage

[omfg]

More to add.

as much as I liked using it, HM2F2 (love that name btw) is just a dream. Lucario is offered far more by ending comboes with N-air than with D-air, even though it's significantly weaker. for HM2F2 to be effective, you'd have to hit with both stomps 100% of the time. If you don't, you can be punished during it most of the time. N-air, on the other hand, can end comboes with very little accuracy, hard to punish, and has absolutely no landing lag.. so if you're attacking someone on the ground and end your aerial spree with N-air, you could easily follow that up with something else (ex. Jab combo). Speaking of jab, I've found it too hard to use on its own. if you find a time where the enemy is completely unguarded, you're free, and you need a quick attack, then the jab combo is perfect. but if you're trying to use the moves as best as possible, as far as the ground then goes F-smash works better for keeping space and F-tilt works better for attacking them.

another thing to add: U-tilt seriously has to be Lucario's absolute best damage builder. U-tilt's damage building potential alone has helped me destroy a 4 stock lead. Oh, and did you guys know that the power of the aura is determined not only by the damage Lucario's received, but by his place in battle (ex. In a 4 stock game, a 2 stock 90% Lucario is stronger than 4 stock 90% Lucario)?

[LiftedResearch]

In terms of ending combos, yes maybe it is better to use Nair. And also, in many situations it can be better to use Nair. But the versatility and spammability of Dair makes it effective. Dair has less of a landing lag than Nair, true, but it is still a pretty fast recovering aerial (jump into instant Dair can be very sneaky and effective). Also, while it's true that Dair is best when you hit with BOTH stomps, Nair is best when you hit them as the move is coming out, rather than brushing them with the hitbox, because then it's pretty weak. This isn't that hard to do though, so maybe it's just a minor issue. Dair is also your best protection against people below you when you're on platforms. A quick falling Dair through a platform can be very effective.

I just think "significantly weaker" is a bit exaggerated. Throwing out Nairs all the time (unless you're always doing it right before you hit the ground) leaves you wide open, as the lag immediately after the move is a lot more than Fair or Dair. So...keep tryin' with the Dairs...they've never done me wrong yet.

Adding to the Utilt thing, it really is a great move. More often than not, you can put together three or four of them in a row. Gotta love spamming it as they try in vain to get away :lol:.

Interesting bit about the place in battle's relation to the aura. I was a little curious as to what exactly that meant. I thought it meant if you were in the lead, your aura's a little weaker. Or is it just determined by number of stocks?

[omfg]

wow, we think more alike on tihs than I thought. that's exactly how I feel about N-air. Actually, I thought it was pretty much understood that you only use N-air as you land, but you knew that much too. We see him alike, with small differences

btw, the aura power stock thing.. it's in referral to your opponent's lead over you. assume the opponent has 4 stocks and it's a 4 stock match. A damaged Lucario at 2 stocks is more powerful than a damaged Lucario at 4 stocks. I heard this from a friend and I've kinda seen it in action, but don't know much other than this

[LiftedResearch]

Okay. I guess the next thing to ask is, if you're the one in the lead, is your aura weaker? Or, does it stay at a normal level?

[omfg]

not sure. I know he's not as powerful, but I'm not sure if that's to say he's weaker. all I know is when my friend had 4 stocks and I had 2, I was creating huge Aura Spheres at 20%

[ChipmunkDJE]

Anybody find a good use for the Side+B? Besides throwing a sphere at them afterwards...

Also, what are good tactics when you do NOT have a sphere? I admit I'm starting to use it alot, and my game starts to fall apart without having one charged while I'm less than 100-120%. After 120, I don't care as he's a frickin' monster.

Speaking of which, has anybody else noticed that the priority of some moves change as your damage rises as well? I've snuffed things with the AAA combo at 150% that I know I SHOULDN'T have when I was like 0-25%.

Chippy

[omfg]

the B-forward can be used to set up a kinda chain grab. That's not what I use for though.. what I use it for is to set up for the next attack I'm going to do. you can kinda get the feel for what to do once you've landed it.

You mean when you don't have a fully charged sphere? you could shoot the tiny ones. I think even those build up damage. From there, it's Street Fighter 101 unless you're playing vs anyone who can deal with projectiles effectively (ex. G&W, Wolf). If you feel naked without fighting with fully charged spheres, one good tactic I find is to charge at them, hurt them as many times as you can during the throw, then push them away. That'll give you time to form one or at least part of one.

The priority thing... I had NOT noticed that at all. interesting if it's accurate..

[LiftedResearch]

Hehe....maybe you shouldn't listen to me, but, when I don't have a fully charged sphere, I just try to get in there and beat the crap out of them :lol:. The sphere is good, but when I play, I try hard to not depend on it. What I do is basically just get into the habit of charging a sphere whenever you're not in immediate danger of being attacked, so that means whenever you send them flying, or if they're standing on the other side of the stage (since you can cancel charge with guard or roll anyway). Sometimes i just jump at them while charging, though this is not safe and I wouldn't recommend it, it'll at least keep your opponents guessing when you'll sit and charge and when you're throwing them.

I've been trying to expand my game to include Side B more, and let me tell you, it has been coming through for me. In most situations where you would need a grab, you can just use a side B instead. Lucario's normal grab range is absolutely terrible, so I've found that Side B can be used to play throw mindgames you normally play with better grabbing characters. Another thing is that if you go for the grab version, if you whiff, there's still a chance the aura part of the move will cover your ass. So, it's not TOTALLY unsafe. But yeah, I wouldn't consider it spammable at all, so use a good bit of discretion. Plus, when you are high enough, meaning 110% and up, this move can really, really hurt people.

EDIT: Side B as I've seen a lot of players do recently, can also be useful during the AAA combo, instead of finishing it. So, A, A, SideB. I haven't used it a lot myself, but I hear it works wonders for other Lucario players.

[ChipmunkDJE]

AA-Side B is frickin' great, but only when you are at low damage so they don't get knocked back far enough. Great opener I'm starting to find.

This is also great in the air. Instead of Air-Forward-A juggles, hit them once with Air-Forward and then Side-B. I find myself usually "on" my opponent when I do these juggles, so it seems pretty easy to slip in.

The grab seems instantaneous, and it feels MUCH better doing Side-B out of a dash instead of a regular throw out of a dash...

Do you see any situation that a regular grab is better than Side B?

Chippy

[omfg]

yes. for instance, when you're high % and you want to charge an aura sphere but they won't leave you the fuck alone, shield grab, mash grab as much as possible, then throw them away while immediately building up the aura.

[omfg]

question: has anyone used this move (B-forward) in the air? is it possible to throw in the air? I haven't been able to pull that off

[Dima]

It's not possible and if it is, I haven't been able to figure it out lol.

anyone having olimar troubles? or do a majority of you play free for alls? where specific match ups really aren't an issue.

Well some tricks against olimar are as followed if it's 1v1 (free for alls I have no idea. I came from SB so thats why =p)

when his pikman latch on to you you can just run at him and down b it'll usually hit him, good thing about this is, it forces the pikman off of you, you'll either A hit olimar or B miss either way it's good because even if you miss the olimar has to get new pikman anyway unless he's pretty conservative about tossing his pikman.

edge guarding Olimar is pretty easy to do as well just hang on the ledge and if you can edge tech do it because well Olimar will die and you won't or you could risk not teching and you might get stage spiked I would say learn to tech though as it covers your options and Olimar will die.

Eh I think thats it lol.

[ChipmunkDJE]

I'm an idiot. I went and looked at my replays ("of course you can do it, guys. what's so hard about it"), and I'm not actually grabbing the guy and I'm just with him as the SideB goes off in the air. That's what I get for trying something out really drunk and then talking about it the next day. My sincere apologies, although I swear I had done it once. You may commence flamming. :P

As for Olimar, I can't help as I'm the resident Olimar player as well. Speaking from the other angle, watch out for over-countering or using it to get rid of Pikmin. His throw has the same range as the feet of his forward smash, and he can easily slip it in any of his "toss" strings. Killing his Pikmin only really the recovery of a good player, as a good Olimar can fight and win with just 1-2 Pikmin if he knows how to work it.

Your goal should be to get Olimar in the air. You are WAY better than him in the air as long as you aren't along his diagonal for his UpB. Knock him up any way you can. Pikmin follow great on the ground but can really suck following in the air, so you may get a chance (random small percentage, but its there) that he'll 'miss' grabbing a Pikmin, aka he's completely frickin' defenseless and you get to own him.

Aura sphere is great for knocking many Pikmin off, as long as they are not on your front or toes. Downsmash works wonders for getting rid of Pikmin on you as well, and much safer IMO than trying to use the counter on a good player.

That's about the best help I can give against Olimar as I don't know how it's like to fight him, just what goes through my mind when I'm as him against Lucario. Our range is even but I have a ranged throw that goes just as far. I feel as though I have the advantage on the ground, but then get my butt whooped once I'm in the air.

Chippy

[Dima]

keeping anyone in the air is pretty tough, you can't combo them in the air until you're ready to kill them, the severe lack of hit stun prevents that.

[omfg]

air? strange. I like fighting everyone on the ground. Olimar may be an exception, but I dunno since I've never done Lucario vs Olimar

[Dima]

lucarios ground game is great, then again so is his air game in some respects at least. I just find lucarios air game is good because he has safe aerials, dair, nair, fair, all of these are safe. bair and up air are not but they can be decent killers at high percents.

I find the best way to kill is just fsmash;
Great range, power, it has IASA frames, so if you wiff the first one you can start another almost instantly.

I use to think the lucario vs olimar match up was next to impossible in olimars favor but I've come to realize it's far more even.

[ChipmunkDJE]

You can't keep him in the air forever, but just try your best to get him off the ground. Both of your throws (reg and SideB) get him into the air, AAA combo at decent % gets him into the air, Utilt gets him into the air... I'm not saying "This is how you easily beat Olimar", but it's the only advantage I could tell you as an Olimar player... Now if I could play against a decent Olimar, then I could help more. But unfortunately, I'm only seeing this matchup in the Olimar perspective, so this is the best I can do.

In the air, Lucario is better. On the ground, Olimar is better IMHO.

Now, back to Mario Kart. =P

Chippy

[Jankanpo]

I love Lucario :D

A lot of people underestimate his range a lot like DK.

I don't know many people that play as him though, and imo his recovery certainly isn't the best.

[ChipmunkDJE]

Actually, I think his recovery is one of the better ones. The only drawback is that its not an attack, but you get better flexibility against edgeguarding. There are definitely better, but there are tons MUCH worse.

Chippy

[scum gale 88]

question about lucario's throws, not sure if its been answered already.
lets say his damage is at 150% and I throw someone, would it also send them super far or just do more damage or both? Ive never really paid attention to that.

[Oroman]

question about lucario's throws, not sure if its been answered already.
lets say his damage is at 150% and I throw someone, would it also send them super far or just do more damage or both? Ive never really paid attention to that.

I'm not sure about damage, but when I faced a Lucario. who was at around 160%, his forward throw sent me from the end of Final Destination to the other side of the screen (killing me). I believe I was at around 120%.

[LiftedResearch]

question about lucario's throws, not sure if its been answered already.
lets say his damage is at 150% and I throw someone, would it also send them super far or just do more damage or both? Ive never really paid attention to that.

More damage and more knockback both. Usually if you're at that high of a percentage, Fthrow and Bthrow become pretty viable killing tools. Then again, pretty much anything you do at that percentage can kill :looney:.

[Nemesis00]

Lucario is a fucking beast son! A beast! His air game wrecks shit like a quake in China.

Throw em off the stage, jump FAir, FAir, double jump FAir NAir or FAir and they are not making it back,meanwhile you just dash to the ledge.

And Lucario is the best with wall cling mind games.

[Sonichuman]

Ok...I was playing Rioting Soul last night and I played around with Lucario for a bit...I tried shifting through the past posts but nothing seemed to scream out about it so..

Possible Up throw mix up:
Lucario seems to have this really ugly mix up on certain characters after his up throw that could could easily lead to 50% if they don't play their cards right. We were playing Lucario vs. Capn Falcon and i was messing around with his throws..when I noticed his up throw didn't really chuck falcon that far at all...so I immediately start thinking about stuff. This is starting with Falcon at 0%, once you chuck him up most people probably won't be able to di out of the up tilt that you should follow up with...this hits falcon and or interupts anything he could have thrown out at this time and he recovers right nearby lucario. You can immediately grab him again and maybe do one A and quickly chuck him back up. Rioting Soul looked like he was having a problem with it and it seems pretty reliable...however I don't recommend it on lighter people as of right now. I haven't tested that out but it seems it works really well on heavier characters. When the opponent gets to about 30% DIing out of it becomes easier...but most still can't get out of the range of the following up tilt...They can dodge it though. That's where another situation comes up where you have to decide whether they're gonna try to attack you or dodge while they're in there...if you think they're gonna dodge...don't do the uptilt and follow them because you'll be able to get another free grab. If they're gonna try to attack you...use another up tilt then follow up with whatever attacks that you see fit. I was able to do this against Falco as well. Of course the opponent could always jump...especially on around the 30% range but Lucario can still follow. I don't know who else this works on but try it out and tell me what you think.

[Rioting Soul]

I was not able to jump out until at higher damage. And it was a bitch to dodge up tilt because if you dodge up tilt then you land before it's done hitting, so you avoid getting hit in the air only to get punished for it on the ground. If the Lucario player is keen on turning on a dime and throwing according to which direction the opponent DI's(like you were) then it's hell.

[Ceirnian]

Alright, here's a collaboration of information brought to you by myself and Sonichuman! Assuming this hasn't been posted before.

Lucario's Final Smash seems pretty shitty overall, but we found a use for it that makes it pretty good. When Lucario starts up his final smash you may notice if you are near an opponent they will be hit downwards. Now... what if you were to try this off the edge?

Tests show that the startup is really fast so it's viable to activate this while near someone off the edge and spike them down, resulting in a kill. One thing I tried out in training was to hit someone off near the edge and immediately dash off the edge and activate the FS. Again it seems to start up fast so it will spike them before they can regrab. I'll have to test this more against live people but this may actually make getting the smash ball worthwhile.

If all else fails doing this will make them try and avoid the spike, which means more setup time for the aura beam.

[ServBot'sTronBonne]

Not anything crazy specific, but I was first introduced to Lucario in Brawl, back when it came out.

Now I'm hard-core into Pkmn Pearl, and I just GOT the egg that is going to hatch into Lucario (well his pre-evolved stage, but whatever), and I'm just so fucking excited --

I'm hoping he's as good a character as he is in Brawl -- fucking top-tier shit. :woot:

He can take on anybody in Brawl :lovin:

[Rioting Soul]

Not anything crazy specific, but I was first introduced to Lucario in Brawl, back when it came out.

Now I'm hard-core into Pkmn Pearl, and I just GOT the egg that is going to hatch into Lucario (well his pre-evolved stage, but whatever), and I'm just so fucking excited --

I'm hoping he's as good a character as he is in Brawl -- fucking top-tier shit. :woot:

He can take on anybody in Brawl :lovin:

Lucario is better in PKMN.

[omfg]

I don't even know Pokemon that well. But I know for a fact he's much much better in Pokemon

He can still kick ass in SSBB though