Dancing pink marshmellows - Kirby Thread

[GC!?]

Don't see a Kirby thread here - a shame, he's my favorite character.

I see a lot of potential with Kirby. That's about all I can say ATM though :wonder:

[JoeMasters]

His new Dash A is pretty good, and im diggin his airs. His air hammer is quick as hell too.

Another plus is he doesnt have escapable throws now. :rolleyes:

[GC!?]

His hammer attacks are pretty decent and could be used for some KOs, but they can be hard to land. His stone can pull off some KOs too.

his Final Smash doesn't do a lot of damage, but provided there's items lying about, it can be pretty decent. Of course, I don't know how well that'd hold up in a tourney.

[KWASIA]

a little thing i tried to do with kirbys smash is do it either in the middle of a group so i can catch everyone or close to and edge... like the top of the screen or a ledge that way it has a better chance of smashing

and though the hammer is strong his forward b is quick plus his down be covers both sides so i thing i'm mainly going to stick with those because they are safe and smash very well... and look for and mistake to pull out my hammer...

what are the different strats you cats have been using in matches

[Zero-SR388]

I love how they put the yo-yo spin from Kirby super star in instead of that crap fireball...

And now Kirby is a lot less vulnerable coming out of being a rock, because you can actually attack right out of it.
His up smash is kinda like a mini version of Fox's, too...

I'm really impressed on his new improvements, including the hammer.

[JoeMasters]

I think dair spikes.. I gotta test it :/

[TheDarkPhoenix]

Seem like his down b in (or is it A) "the rock move" seems to do hit harder depending on what he changes to. Anyone else notice this or is it just my imagination?

[GC!?]

Probably your imagination. Damage seems to be the same for me.

Anyone have any impressions on the Kirby hats?

[GC!?]

My impressions on the Kirby hats from the new characters:

Dedede: Swallows up people and various items. Not very great for damage (10%, same as when Kirby spits them out)

Diddy Kong: Gets the Peanut gun thing - does ok damage (5% at least), but I'd prefer Pits arrows or Wolfs gun over it.

Ike: Gets his charging flame sword, good for KOs.

Lucario: Gets his awesome charging aura blast. Does lots of damage.

Lucas: PK ice thing, turns opponents into ice, but short distance. Pretty useful if you can land it.

Meta Knight: Gets his awesome tornado attack. Pretty damn good.

Olimar: Throws pikmin. Doesn't do much damage really.

Pit: Gets his arrows. Good projectile for ticking, I guess. It probably outmatches normal Links arrows too.

ROB: Gets the beam. Does little damage with little KO opportunity, but its mega cute hearing Kirby say "BEAMM~"

Snake: Gets grenades, which can be pretty useful.

Sonic: Gets the guided sonic ball attack thing. 8% damage.

Toon Link: Gets his arrows, but Pits' arrows do slightly more damage.

Wario: Bites the opponent, gets a good 17% damage usually.

Wolf: Gets his gun. 6% damage, and its kinda slow. Pretty much the same kinda thing as Luigis fireball (6% damage also)

Zero Suit Samus: Gets the paralyzer gun, can be helpful since it stuns people for a brief moment. Use this and then the hammer for a KO?

Still gotta go over the 3 Pokemon from Pokemon trainer, but my favorite hats would be the ZSS, Lucas, Lucario, Meta Knight, Ike and Snake hats.

[JoeMasters]

ZZS and Ike hats are my favs atm. And my all time fav, C. Falcon. And yes its just because his helm :wonder:

[KWASIA]

i noticed that kirby's up b seems quite safe... now i don't see any smash ability with it but it does seem to have great priority and since all 3 parts connect pushs opponents back so i've started using it to build damage and to push back foes...

now i'm torn between some moves the seem so similar that i don't know which to stick too...

in the air attacking i like the foward a over the hammer forward b... because it has multiple hits then which to his back a for smash once damage is high... though the hammer smashs better and at lower precentages it has a small lag when missed because he swings it twice and during a short jump he doesn't complete the second swing... now has anyone else had better luck using the hammer....

i do actually use it when chasing off a ledge or the down a but on short jump no...

on the ground i perfer his forward a and down a smash attacks again over the hammer... now i use the hammer when i see what looks like an opening but the foward a is fast and long... and the down a is fast and hits from 2 side in case of a roll... any hammer strats out there...

i mean i like the hammer i do but these moves seem so much better...

[Miracle Matter]

The last hit on his d-air is a meteor according to the official site. I'm not sure if anyone has a "real" spike anymore.

The Ivysaur hat gives you bullet seed which is great for racking up damage if you can catch someone in it.

The air hammer got a lot better now. I like using it and f-air when approaching from the air. The ground hammer seems about the same unfortunately.

[GC!?]

KWASIA - Personally the short jump air hammer > ground hammer. It does 6% less damage, but it seems faster and much less risky.

The second air hammer swing isn't very useful IMO, since I don't think you can hit one person with both swings due to the knockback it has. It can be useful if you miss with the first swing, but I wouldn't rely on it. Practice aiming the first swing is probably a better thing to do.

IMO, the ground hammer isn't really all that great unfortunately. Its Kirbys strongest overall attack, but its kinda close range and slow that its risky to use. A substitute for the ground hammer: Run+grab, forward, air hammer. 25% damage w/ knockback..unfortunately, it only really works when the opponent has a low %.


Speaking of attacks I don't care for too much...the sword attack (up+b). Only does up to 15% damage, and thats if you're close. Recovery is slow too. I really only like it for getting me back on the stage.

[KWASIA]

i agree about the hammer... i still perfer the forward a in air combos at low percentages then look for chance to hammer away...

now about the up b... i do believe the move has been vastly improved... i believe though it doesn't kill it is a nice why to build damage in combos... example after the throw i like to follow with it... it's easier to hit and leaves me in advantage to follow offensively... the air hammer in this case misses alot... my goal is to do attacks with limited opening and higher success rates... i would like others opinion on this... i maybe wrong or others may see something i don't...

also i noticed the attack beats alot of others so i use it to break oppenents combos or attack strings...

[TheDarkPhoenix]

kirby has be top tier, I love the lil guy. Seems like he's alot stronger this game.

[GC!?]

It'd be cool to see Kirby be top tier, but I don't know if he'd make it that high.

Anyone have any bad matchups? IMO, heavyweights are bad for Kirby. Hard to dish out enough damage since Kirby doesn't have much of a projectile (unless you got a good hat for him anyway), and most of them can easily send Kirby flying with a smash.

[white shadow]

I think dair spikes.. I gotta test it :/

It doesn't, which SUCKS!!!:mad:

Oh well, gone are his days of being the best Spiker in the game. 5 jumps and no reliable spike, what a waste...:shake:

[TheDarkPhoenix]

spikes =?

[Raph_Stryker]

spiking is an effect of being immediatly sent downward, at a velocity that usually ends with you not being able to recover since your either to low to, or the spike was strong enough to push you to the bottom.

Kirby's down air does do this, but the effect isnt as dramatic as most others, since they wont go straight down as fast as say, Ganon's down air, but it will send them downwards, try at heigher percentages and youll see.

[KWASIA]

he down air doesn't spike but it is still really good... it push the opponent down far enough that it really hard for most characters to get back up... so use it...

[Mr.hitBOX]

first of all kirby is tied with diddy in tier(Mid-Top)

BEST MOVE - b-air A(good damage and KO ability)

also d-B special is retarded-in a good way. after tranforming back which is wicked fast you can do another B special. I caught alot of ppl off guard with mid air d-B cancel to side B or up B special. possible combo ability have to test it. and its really hard to KO Kirby.

[KWASIA]

okay i want some opinions on this i did a few match online and was testing out short jump or low jump to rock(down b)... i like it alot but it's easy to read... i recomemd throughing it out every blue moon... kirby jumps shorts with this so it won't reach most but if they roll or if you get just close enough it will hit... when he hits the ground it's similar to koopa, yoshi, and ddd, just a liltel small... so help me test this out try it in a few match... plus when kirby comes out of it he can attack freely...

[KWASIA]

i'm the only one in here and it seems i'm talking to myself but....

had to come up with a new play for a falco i played today... the foward a is strong but i use it to much so it becomes very predictible... i started anticipating his roll and doing the foward a or a hammer in the opposite direction... catching him as he attemped to roll behind me... thought it help alot

[GC!?]

Two things I don't like about stone:
- People can grab you while you're a stone (at least I'm pretty sure of this)
- pretty predictable

I thought the ground hammer only attacked in front of Kirby now?

[Kyokuji]

D-Air spiked back in the original SSB, and it was mad overpowered. I don't think you'll ever see it again.

[Imperious]

How are people setting up the mallet? I can see that short hop-mallet is much faster (and thus easier to land) than the ground mallet, but you have to have some distance from the opponent to avoid whiffing it, and so it's easy to see coming.

[Brahma]

I've found that using the air hammer is nice when combined with fakeouts. I like to use a Full jumped Bair over the opponents head, then DI back and immediately air hammer. If they jump up to attack you they will often get hit by the first hammer swing, and if they stay on the ground and attack the second will sometimes catch them.

[t!mmy]

The information in this thread is pretty sparse, so I'd like to add my input to this, if you guys don't mind.

First of all, Kirby is a very combo-driven character. He is probably the best at stringing hits together next to Lucario and Diddy. The problem with his combos is that they're damage dependant - they're really only guarenteed when your opponent has low-damage; we're talking 20% or less. The good news is that his combos can rack up damage quite easily doing at least 18% but as much as 50% or more.

Kirby has some strong hits to help finish off his opponents. His Forward Smash (F-smash) is a prime example. It routinely KOs around the 100% mark depending on the weight of your opponent and how close to the edge of the screen you are. His Up Smash (U-smash) can KO light characters around 90%, and heavier characters from 110% to 120%. His Down Smash (D-smash) is the weakest of them all. It's best used either to KO light characters around 120% when sweet-spotting it (near his body), or as an edge-guard to knock an opponent horizontally to their doom (near his toes).

Kirby has two Special Attacks that are great at finishing off the opponent. The Stone (D-Speical) and the Hammer (F-Special).

The Stone is best used when you know your opponent is going to over extend their aerial attack from below. They think they might get that hit in first, or they're using a long-reaching attack (like Marth's sword), but you plummet down on their head dealing 18%. This can usually KO vertically around the 100% mark also. When used from the ground, Kirby's Stone can still create a shockwave (like when it lands from the air), but it will only deal 14% and send the opponent in a horizontal direction.

Kirby's Hammer can deal massive damage and is easily his strongest attack. On the ground it will deal 23% damage and send the opponent at a diagonal angle upward. The speed is slow, the reach is short, and the lag is bad, but that's what you get with a 23% attack. Because of this, it's best used ONLY when your opponent has left themselves so wide-open to attacks that hitting them is guarenteed. Instances include someone landing back on the stage after using their Up Special to recover (Marth, Peach, etc), a Jigglypuff who has fallen asleep, someone stunned after breaking their shield, etc.

The properties of Kirby's Hammer when used in the air give you additional options! These include: faster start-up, aerial mobility back/forth, and a double-swing. Since the Aerial Hammer has obvious speed/mobility buffs, it makes a lot of sense that it is also much weaker. The first hit does 17% and the second swing can deal 15%. Don't assume right away that the first hit is better simply because it deals more damage! Yes, it does 2% more damage, but it will send the opponent away in diagonal arc. The second swing will send the opponent away in an almost horizontal trajectory.

The ramifications of a horizontal trajectory can make big difference - it will send an opponent straight off the screen whereas someone being sent upward has more distance to travel and is more likely to surivive the hit. Additionally, many characters will have a much more difficult time returning to the stage from below than from above - coming down from above is like starting off with a free jump where coming from below uses up jumps and is easier to intercept.

Now, the truth of Kirby's offensive faults should be obvious from what I have written. He can build up damage, but his main finishers are slow, laggy, or easy to see coming. This makes KOing inexperienced opponents a walk in the park, but against players of higher skill it can be difficult to find an opening to land a Smash attack, Hammer or Stone. You're faced with the dilemma that if you launch a strong attack there's a high probability of a good opponent seeing it coming and putting up a Shield or successfully Dodging. You will then leave yourself wide-open for a counter attack for a short amount of time - long enough for even a mediocre player to take advantage of with a variety of attacks.

To mitigate this fault, Kirby players will have to play an extremely patient game and will utilize attacks that don't comprimise his defenses (weak attacks) while waiting for an opening to land a KO. Often times this will lead to the Kirby player relying on simply building damage from small hits until the opponent is off the stage and can be KO'd with aerial attacks.

Because of these tactics, Kirby is at odds against characters who either out-range him or do not leave themselves open when going offensive. A Kirby player will be unable to pressure his opponent with weak attacks if the opponent can out-do Kirby in offense. This will force a Kirby player to go defensive, getting fewer damage building attack in, and in turn will likely be the one taking the hits. Being a light-weight this is dangerous because most characters will not have to resort to using their strongest attacks to finish Kirby off.

Characters who are most dangerous to Kirby are the ones that have strong, long-reaching attacks with little lag. This includes Marth, Snake, Zelda and Mr. G&W. Meta Knight is perhaps the toughest match-up of them all because he is all about reach and speed which will completely beat out anything Kirby has, and even without powerhouse attacks he still has no problems finishing off Kirby.

Remember to work with your strengths and try to mitigate your weaknesses. Don't leave yourself open, get your opponent off the stage, and maximize the damage you do stringing combos together.

Here are some useful combos to work with (remember, Kirby's combos work best at 0 - 20%)

Basic Combos (only a little practice in Training Mode)

Vs. Floaties (e.g. Marth, Toon Link, Peach, etc)
Grab, D-throw, U-smash
U-tilt, B-air
D-air, F-smash (also works at higher percents if they don't shield!)

Vs. Heavies/Fast Fallers (e.g. Bowser, Fox, Snake, Falcon, etc)
Grab, D-throw, U-tilt, U-tilt, B-air
Grab, F-throw, Grab, F-throw, F-smash
U-air, U-tilt, U-tilt, U-smash

Intermediate Combos
(a little practice in Training Mode, but also some experience in actual fights)

Vs. Floaties
Dashing Jump into U-air, U-tilt, B-air
F-throw, U-air, "reverse" U-tilt, B-air
F-air, D-tilt into Trip, Dash into Grab, D-throw, B-air

Vs. Heavies/Fast-Fallers
D-air, Dash into Grab, F-throw, up-angled F-smash
B-air, U-tilt, U-tilt, (full-jumped) B-air, Aerial Hammer
F-throw, U-air, F-throw, U-air, "reverse" U-tilt, B-air

Notes:
U = up, D = down, F = Foward, B = Backward, N = Neutral
All Aerial attacks are assumed Short-Hopped unless labled "full-jumped".
Fast-Falling your attacks is based on your level of skill.

[dizzynecro]

Dair spikes stop saying it doesn't. it also combos into fsmash if spaced properly, its amazing

[t!mmy]

Yes, D-air has a downward trajectory but it can hardly be called a 'spike' anymore. This was once true in SSB-64 and Melee, but the D-air in Brawl has very little knockback. What you can do with it off-stage is that since the opponent does not get spiked you can follow-up a D-air into a Footstool Jump if you're positioned well enough.

And the D-air to F-smash combo is included in my previous post (at the bottom under "Basic Combs" and "vs. Floaties"). Note that I already included the fact that most people will be able to shield/Perfect Shield the F-smash so it's not a true combo. However, if the DI is poor or if they are not prepared for the F-smash, you can catch them with it at practically any level of damage they have.

[Brahma]

Most characters can be comboed at 0% or a little higher with Fthrow, Uair. On heavier characters, you can regrab after this and repeat. On other characters, you can go for a shieldgrab, tunraround Utilt, or double jump Fair/Dair after the Uair.

Also been experimaenting some with UpB. If done from the ground you have a decent amount of vertical movement, so you can do a retreating Final Cutter to take you out of hit range and give them something to deal with. You can also use it as an air stall or sorts, say you FJ and do a Fair, and someone expects the hammer followup and shields. Once you reach their shield you can UpB back and hit their shield, and move out of hit range.

[DanielRGT]

It was mentioned that Kirby has a tougher time finishing the job when it comes to enemies with higher percentages, and I totally agree with that. What would you recommend doing to try and build up damage. I could be wrong, but I think his Bair has the most launch potential and it's a quick move to use, though I could be horribly wrong.

[Zero-SR388]

How are people setting up the mallet? I can see that short hop-mallet is much faster (and thus easier to land) than the ground mallet, but you have to have some distance from the opponent to avoid whiffing it, and so it's easy to see coming.


At low % you can fthrow > uair > fthrow > uair > dbl jump > mallet.

I do this sometimes, and it was done to me, and you can't really DI out, but that really depends on the weight of the character...

[omfg]

oh god. for a second I thought this was the Ike thread. D-air comboing into F-smash would be fantastic for him..

to build up damage, I use Kirby's Swallow, opponent's B move, or the cutter.

[Brahma]

It was mentioned that Kirby has a tougher time finishing the job when it comes to enemies with higher percentages, and I totally agree with that. What would you recommend doing to try and build up damage. I could be wrong, but I think his Bair has the most launch potential and it's a quick move to use, though I could be horribly wrong.

?

What do you mean he has trouble killing at higher %? He kills much easier at higher % rather than lower %, most characters do. If they're at higher (120%+), Bair, Fsmash, airhammer all do a good job of finishing, or at least put them off the edge to edgeguard. If you're talking above 200%, Uthrow can kill.

You can build early damage really well with Fthrow combos, Utilt combos, and poking with Ftilt, Dair, etc.

[DanielRGT]

I build early damage pretty easily, especially against heavy characters where fthrow to airhammer connect and then i can get them in this random uair frenzy (could be that it combos, or the fact that the people i'm playing don't know how to get out of it. the latter is probably the more likely). I just have a harder time being able to finish the job when fsmash and airhammer become predictable and punishable, so it usually ends up with me playing a floating game where i hit them with assortmets of bair, fair, and uair.


But, for all intensive purposes, I'm not very skilled at the game so what I'm saying could be completely and utterly retarded so please correct me >.>

[Brahma]

At low %, Fthrow into Uair is pretty much guaranteed on all characters. There are a few that can get out, but it requires somewhat tight timing, so it's pretty universal. On heavier/larger characters, you can do Fthrow, Uair, Fthrow, Uair, then work into turnaround Utilt/ airhammer, Bair.

When that stops working Dthrow starts setting up well. If they come down on you with an attack, shield and regrab. If they jump, you can chase with Uair, if they DI to the side, you can B/F air or wait on the ground with regrab.

As far as kills, Dair sets up really well for Fsmash, or you can wait and try to space and punish with Fsmash, or set up airhammer fakeouts. I don't use airhammer all that much, so I fid it easy to work in at high % once in a while to throw them off and get a kill.

[omfg]

Anyone try edge guarding with his rock move?

[Brahma]

Anyone try edge guarding with his rock move?

It works pretty well, especially on stages like FD and battlefield that have slanted edges, since if you hit them right you'll stagespike. Since you're basically invincible you can plaw through a lot of recoveries on your way down. Just try to get high up first so you don't fall to far and get edgeguarded yourself.

[DanielRGT]

Kirby seems to have a lot of reach when it comes to grab, moreso than some other characters.

This could be true of any character and I just got lucky, but my friend picked up the hammer with each of us having one stock left. He walked towards me and I literally grabbed him while he had the hammer, fthrow and air hammered him to get the KO.

[Zero-SR388]

Kirby's broke now!
He can combo into a jab lock, and i's really simple.

Utilt > footstool jumb > fast fall nair > dtilt > jab lock initiates.

Here. video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wdt-sI5xHyk

[Brahma]

Does this only work from 0%? Also, isn't the footstool techable?

[TheDarkPhoenix]

Kirby seems to have a lot of reach when it comes to grab, moreso than some other characters.

This could be true of any character and I just got lucky, but my friend picked up the hammer with each of us having one stock left. He walked towards me and I literally grabbed him while he had the hammer, fthrow and air hammered him to get the KO.

Ive noticed the same, its about dx3 range at least its really deceptive.

[DanielRGT]

Ive noticed the same, its about dx3 range at least its really deceptive.


I've officially confirmed that Kirby can, everytime, grab a person out of hammer. Haven't confirmed if it works for the Golden Hammer though.


Either way, Donkey Kong Hammer (black one) has been seriously nerfed from the previous games, making it more a death wish to pick it up than being useful.

[TheDarkPhoenix]

I've officially confirmed that Kirby can, everytime, grab a person out of hammer. Haven't confirmed if it works for the Golden Hammer though.


Either way, Donkey Kong Hammer (black one) has been seriously nerfed from the previous games, making it more a death wish to pick it up than being useful.

hammer?

[DanielRGT]

hammer?

Black Hammer, plays the song from the first Donkey Kong when you get it.

Sucks ass in this game ;o

[noradseven]

Im surprised no one has mentioned his damaging forward Air, or his hideously gay back Air for approaching, or just edge guarding like mad.

[Zero-SR388]

Does this only work from 0%? Also, isn't the footstool techable?

No, you can't tech out.
It bounces you up, and then you land.
You really can tech, but only after the first bounce, and he's hitting you with nair while you're bouncing, so once it's initiated, you can't really get out.

And no, it works on other percentages as well, but just low ones.
Say, below 20-25%

[DanielRGT]

I know Kirby has a bad matchup against Snake and an OK matchup against Metaknight, but I'm having trouble fighting both

Any tipizzles mah grizzles?

[omfg]

for Meta Knight, steal his tornado move if it's possible. If you can tornado well, this should help a great deal. I was learning how to tornado up before I stopped playing. I'm not sure of the differences between Kirby's tornado and Meta Knight's, or even if there is any. Think it should work as a counterattack.

For anyone who plays him, how does his B move go for you guys? I remember it being good if you used it occasionally

[DanielRGT]

You mean Kirby's swallow or Kirby after he steals MK's tornado.

In terms of Swallow, it's got its uses for some Kirbycide or ghetto ass swallow and footstool jump mindgames.

His tornado is identical to MK's I'm pretty sure

[omfg]

meant for swallow. also, I meant not counting Kirbycide

[noradseven]

You mean Kirby's swallow or Kirby after he steals MK's tornado.

In terms of Swallow, it's got its uses for some Kirbycide or ghetto ass swallow and footstool jump mindgames.

His tornado is identical to MK's I'm pretty sure

nope its smaller, and less gay because of it.

[DanielRGT]

nope its smaller, and less gay because of it.

Confirmed, it is indeed tinier, and not as ballin' as MK's tornado. I'd stick with grabbing the tornado from MK and go with usual Kirby tactics, and throw in a tiny tornado every now and then just to get some free damage. It may be tinier, but I believe the ridiculous priority that the tornado has still comes with it.

[noradseven]

Confirmed, it is indeed tinier, and not as ballin' as MK's tornado. I'd stick with grabbing the tornado from MK and go with usual Kirby tactics, and throw in a tiny tornado every now and then just to get some free damage. It may be tinier, but I believe the ridiculous priority that the tornado has still comes with it.

It does but after playing against like 1million n00b metaknight in FFA games for fun who spam BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB till their thumbs break, I have gotten pretty good at punishing that move, and predicting it.

Gahh but Kirbies suck, sucks I wish it was more like Dededes,I mean most chars forward tilt have more range then the suck.

[DanielRGT]

It does but after playing against like 1million n00b metaknight in FFA games for fun who spam BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB till their thumbs break, I have gotten pretty good at punishing that move, and predicting it.

Gahh but Kirbies suck, sucks I wish it was more like Dededes,I mean most chars forward tilt have more range then the suck.

That's why I don't really find myself using it unless I'm playing someone like Falco that has a laser or Snake cause grenades = fun :tup:

[Blooddrunk]

It'd be cool to see Kirby be top tier, but I don't know if he'd make it that high.

Anyone have any bad matchups? IMO, heavyweights are bad for Kirby. Hard to dish out enough damage since Kirby doesn't have much of a projectile (unless you got a good hat for him anyway), and most of them can easily send Kirby flying with a smash.

he was top iin ssb soo since he is this beast in ssbb