Evil Incarnate: The Ganondorf Thread

[Warrior's Dreams]

Post Ganon strats here


As a starter, how does a good Ganon player win matches?

[Shade]

I play responsively. I have a reaction to everything one would do against me, since you really can't play him offensively, and he's no Road Runner, so evasion tactics won't work with him, so just get used to being able to respond in the best way possible to whatever they can dish out at you.

Ganondorf dishes out HEAVY fucking damage, with few attacks, too. So don't focus so much on attacking your opponent relentlessly. If you play right, he'll feel it regardless of you taking the extra mile.

[scum gale 88]

so basically just roll with the punches and dont go out of your way just to get that one last d-air?

ouch. Ive been playing hella agressively. ganon feels very different from melee. its hard to adjust

[Warrior's Dreams]

Ok, so you play him somewhat defensively then. So what kind of stuff do you use to punish? The only mix-up Ive figured out so far is forward+b/down + b.

[Shade]

Yea, he's not the same Ganon from Melee. His model is actually slightly bigger, too. Which is a good and bad thing. But by all means, go for those d-air's/down-spikes. His model being bigger works in his advantage, there.

[Warrior's Dreams]

What changes did Ganon undergo from melee to brawl?

[ArcadeFire]

^ He can't spam (A) anymore like in Melee.

[Shade]

He's slower than his Melee counterpart.
Just about all of his attacks (especially his Foward Smash) will kill/knock back far, with very litlle damage given. I find myself knocking people off left and right under 50%. His air attacks are nowhere near as fast as his Melee self, so focus on your ground game when possible.

His larger model makes his reach slightly longer, especially his long ass legs. +1 His weight also makes it harder for people to K.O. him. His altered Forward + B Special also sets up for a follow up ground attack/combo, something that of course, his Melee counterpart couldn't do.

Also, as AF said, his standing A is much slower. Can't spam it like before. It also has a farther knock back.

[King9999]

^ He can't spam (A) anymore like in Melee.

Although you can't spam his A jab anymore, it's still pretty good, in my experience. The knockback was increased, so you can easily KO somebody with it after a side B.

Speaking of side B, use it a lot and follow up with an attack (like the jab). If you get a Smash Ball, use side B first before using the FS to guarantee a hit.

Ganon's f-air is still beastly, so keep using it. :lovin:

Ganon's neutral B has less charge time now (about the same as Falcon Punch), but it's better suited for multi brawls instead of 1 on 1. It still does disgusting damage too (32%).

Use the move that I call "Big Boot" (f-tilt).

Use the move that I call "Stiff Kick" (up-smash).

The shoulder ram (dash A) is still good. It's fast, and it KOs.

Ganon's recovery options got nerfed...you can no longer do a midair jump after performing a down B in midair. :( That really helped him a lot. You have to be careful when you're near the edge. I would like to know if there are any good recovery options besides his up B and side B.

[TornadoFlame]

Don't forget you can 180 that standing B now. Soooooooooo Good.

[King9999]

I'm gonna check if Ganon has any super armor on his moves at all. I'll post if I find anything.

[TornadoFlame]

Short hop + Down A is a pretty good move too. It breaks Ganon's moves down in this vid.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kRLIJxyPG8Q

[JoeMasters]

Short hop + Down A is a pretty good move too. It breaks Ganon's moves down in this vid.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kRLIJxyPG8Q


Yeah, the no lag stomp is awesome. Im getting myself to use it more and more.

I think his air moves are great, and his ground As have good range. Including the jab.( I love stuffing shit with it )

Anyone else like to use his nair?

[Snatcher]

Nice to see some more Ganon players, they're not nearly as prevalent as they were in Melee (Cowards I say!). Ganon's got some nice ground moves now, but it's too bad he got changed so much, it's like learning a completely new character. Side-note: Anyone notice he sounds like Urien from 3S?

[JoeMasters]

yeah I noticed that. I think he sounds awesome. The sound he makes when is does Warlock Punch is too evil.

[King9999]

It looks like Ganon doesn't have any super armor except on his side B, apparently. That's too bad...I would've enjoyed watching people try to stuff the Warlock Punch. :badboy: Ah well.

[BoringRyu]

Am I the only one who edgeguards with his up air? It doesn't spike like it used to in Melee but it sends the guy damn far, has a huge hitbox, stays out long and has crazy priority (beats most up Bs? should test it out more indepth). I find it useful after a side throw that didn't send the guy far enough to get spiked accurately.

Any words on it?

[JoeMasters]

Am I the only one who edgeguards with his up air? It doesn't spike like it used to in Melee but it sends the guy damn far, has a huge hitbox, stays out long and has crazy priority (beats most up Bs? should test it out more indepth). I find it useful after a side throw that didn't send the guy far enough to get spiked accurately.

Any words on it?

I use it pretty often too. regular or reverse. If it connects and it doesn't kill you, your still open for a stomp/foward A follow up.

[Shade]

Short hop + Down A is a pretty good move too. It breaks Ganon's moves down in this vid.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kRLIJxyPG8Q

That was actually a pretty insightful vid.

[King9999]

Am I the only one who edgeguards with his up air? It doesn't spike like it used to in Melee but it sends the guy damn far, has a huge hitbox, stays out long and has crazy priority (beats most up Bs? should test it out more indepth). I find it useful after a side throw that didn't send the guy far enough to get spiked accurately.

Any words on it?

I use up air for everything but spikes. I guess I should try it...I don't usually attempt spikes with the stomp because I'm too scared.

[Warrior's Dreams]

Could someone make a list of enemies that have a bouncing animation after forward + b. The vid that TornadoFlame posted mentioned that you can connect with a quick jab or forward tilt during this animation

From the video, it looks like Snake has this property

EDIT

So I went into practice mode and tried it with Snake, but how do I tell this actually works? I would think if its a true combo that the consecutive hits indicator would be 2, but it doesnt register in practice mode. Am I doing it wrong? Does it not register?

EDIT 2

People that bounce and can be hit

Snake

People that cant be hit

Ike

Not 100% sure. Anyone want to confirm this?

[$hAoLIn]

Surprised to not hear any mentions about down+tilt. The move has nasty range and puts the opponent in a pretty intimidating position at early percentages.

I'm also pleased to see what's good with his new Foward+B, that shit has options.

- Roll to the side? Forward+B that direction
- Wake-up attack? Shield & Punish
- They lie there? Up+Smash or Down+Tilt
- Neutral+A on bouncers

His Up+Tilt is pretty fun to use in multiplayer brawls too. It has a vacuum effect that keeps opponents at bay and sucks them in as well. Not to mention, the charge time has been lessened greatly.

Oh yeah, Neutral+A is a tipper, but from what I've seen it only does 2% more damage w/ the same knockback.

[TornadoFlame]

Down tilt is great after Forward + B. Fuck it, I'm getting online. I wanna play.

[ezekial45]

Warlock kick and the Forward B are also good for fighting characters with range. If you're fighting Pit for example, playing too defensively isn't always the best option. Since his arrows are spammable, staying in his face helps in my opinion.

Surprisingly, many people do not expect Ganon's running ram attack. It does decent damage, and it knocks your target in the air. Since air combos are one of Ganon's strong points, you can immediately attack with an ^a kick to send them even further. Finishing people off with Ganon's forward punch in the air isn't as hard as it looks either. Since its a bit slow, start the attack a bit before you get to the target.

Now for Ganon's stomp. I personally find its most useful when you fight people like Snake. When he uses his recovery, he is vulnerable. Stomp right on him while he is flying up, and that is possibly the EASIEST kill ever. After getting hit by a ^ smash is a good chance to retaliate with a stomp also. Chances are, your target will try and hit you with another ^ smash.

*EDIT* The best skill you have to learn to use Ganon effectively is anticipation. Timing your forward smash can kill someone easily. Either a smash attack or a warlock kick/grab. Accumulate damage in a small amount of time, then finish them off with something as simple as a ram.

Those are from my experiences though, take that as you will. ^_^

[King9999]

I have to confirm this myself, but I think you can use neutral A to cancel projectiles. I've seen a few cases where things like Samus' charge beam was nullified.

EDIT: It's confirmed. :bgrin: The jab won't block a fully charged shot though, and I imagine it's like that vs. other characters with charge attacks like Lucario.

EDIT 2: OK, so some of Ganon's other attacks can cancel projectiles too. His down tilt blocks them. I don't know if this is something exclusive to Ganon or if it's a universal feature that I didn't know about.

[Snatcher]

From my experience, down-tilt/neutral A/whatever has worked on everyone but Lucario, I haven't tried it on everyone, but Lucario is the only person I've tried it on with no success.

[JoeMasters]

yeah I gotta test his B grab on people too.

I love the air grab though man. I was playin an Ike earlier, did an air grab near the ledge, he grabbed the ledge, did an A recovery attack, I short hopped a stomp for 1 of his stocks. Beautiful:lovin:

Anyone else love doing his foward tilt on sword characters? Range makes evens shit out.

[ezekial45]

yeah I gotta test his B grab on people too.

I love the air grab though man. I was playin an Ike earlier, did an air grab near the ledge, he grabbed the ledge, did an A recovery attack, I short hopped a stomp for 1 of his stocks. Beautiful:lovin:

Anyone else love doing his foward tilt on sword characters? Range makes evens shit out.

When you get knocked away, usually your opponent waits for you at the edge. That is the perfect time to air grab him and take him to hell with you.

[Shade]

Ganondorf's Forward Tilt A Air attack thingie went through/negated (lol Yugioh talk) Ike's :r:+:snkb: attack, and dealt Ike damage. It was crazy. Don't know if that was situational or not. But I'll try it again to test it out. I do hate those frames once you hit the ground when using that attack, though.

[JoeMasters]

When you get knocked away, usually your opponent waits for you at the edge. That is the perfect time to air grab him and take him to hell with you.

Indeed, just did it to Scum's DK in Distant Planet when I had 2 stocks left ( he had 1 ) Sorry Scum:lovin:

[Mr.D]

For those who don't know. You can do an almost instant otg hit with Ganondorf by pressing y + down + b in one very smooth manner. The result? A 0 frame down b air attack that is actually right on the ground.

A simple setup combo is off of a forward b to y+d+b which will result in the opponent flying into 45degree angle in which u may run after jump up air for about ~40%.

Enjoy

[Tigerboi]

Foward tilt is by far his best move imo. Sick priority, sick KO move, HUGE fucking hitbox (it hits behind him!!!) and reaches far.

EDIT: I stopped watching that vid when it said that his foward smash is unchanged. -.-

[King9999]

Foward tilt is by far his best move imo. Sick priority, sick KO move, HUGE fucking hitbox (it hits behind him!!!) and reaches far.

EDIT: I stopped watching that vid when it said that his foward smash is unchanged. -.-

I love the big boot, man. It's his ultimate "GET OFF ME!!" move. :bgrin: I didn't know it hits behind him, though. At what point does that happen? At the beginning?

[TornadoFlame]

I've been testing out alot with Ganon and matchups are gonna be alot tougher this time around due to speed issues and lag on moves. Right now, all I can say is be patient and don't waste moves :tup:.

[Tigerboi]

He has some REALLY fast ground moves though. down tilt, f-tilt, and n-a should be the most frequently used imo. d+air seems lag free which is GOOD.

[TornadoFlame]

He has some REALLY fast ground moves though. down tilt, f-tilt, and n-a should be the most frequently used imo. d+air seems lag free which is GOOD.

DON'T TALK TO ME WITH THAT LINK AV...............:mad:

[KMD]

I love the big boot, man. It's his ultimate "GET OFF ME!!" move. :bgrin: I didn't know it hits behind him, though. At what point does that happen? At the beginning?

I wholeheartedly agree. Forward B, predict their tech into Down Tilt, give them a Uair or two, IDA once landing, watch their descent then Ftilt them while screaming THIS IS SPARTA!

Not the tightest chain, but few are more awesome.

[El Maniatico]

jumpin on someones head and down b is unblockable i think.

[Tigerboi]

DON'T TALK TO ME WITH THAT LINK AV...............:mad:

Nigga brought it on himself man! I couldn't be having that nigga fucking up hyrule like that! I got baby momas all over!


Up+air, B+air = best edgegaurd moves.

Also, gerudo dragon into FS is pretty much unavoidable.

[$hAoLIn]

On Samus' stages (stages w/ lava) the Ganocide k.o's the enemy, but non Ganon.

[JoeMasters]

Apparently Gerudo is called flame choke or some shit according to Dojo... So I like saying Gerudo choke :/

And yes, reverse Vulture kick and normal Vulture kick are reaaally good EG normals.

[Snatcher]

Neutral A after Yoga Flame Gerudo Choke (Whatever it's called) does NOT work on: Fox, Falco, Marth, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mario, Link, Sonic, Ness, Lucario, Toon Link, Captain Falcon, Zero Suit Samus, Lucas, Sheik, Squirtle, and Peach. I think, THINK, that forward-A won't work on those characters either, down-A, I'd need to test out.

[JoeMasters]

Down A works on everybody, but its roll techable.

[HolyOrderChipp]

I like the new Ganondorf, but he's not nearly so offense oriented as he was in Melee. He was a Rushdown Beast (Like Hatred Edge) back then. It seems like he has to play patiently, and I don't know whether this is because he's reactive or just plain crappy. Remember that his fastest attack now is his grab, and that when you're in between his grab range and the max range of his jab you're in your dead range. I've also found that his F tilt is not noticeably slower than his jab, but you may want to forgo using it so you can come out of nowhere and KO someone. His Down B got heavy nerfs, I never use it anymore. His running A is much better. Remember the days when your Side B was a strike rather than a throw? It was pretty crappy back then, as Down B was far superior. But occasionally, you'd KO someone off the top with it and grin. Well, you can't do that anymore. However, his new Side B is awesome. It sets up powerful offensive mind games, and is unblockable besides. Remember not to spam it against compulsive shield rollers. They will roll behind you and kill you for being predictable. B is still as crappy as ever. They should have given it super armor. The least they could have done was make it break shields. If it had been slightly faster, had slightly more range, made you slide slightly more forwards, and had slightly shorter recovery, it would still be crap. But it would be the kind of crap you throw out once in a blue moon. If it were better in all the ways I described, it might be good. However, if your opponent is prone to making fatal mistakes, it still does 33% and can KO at 20-30%. That's ridiculously powerful, but you will never hit. The computer occasionally gets killed by it, but a competent human isn't nearly so prone to doing stupid things. In short, learn to do what when and learn your options as far as mind games go. A few right guesses can go a long way. Ganondorf is one of those few characters that can build momentum well. He also can KO with nearly anything. I've killed with jabs, tilts, running A, and various other stuff. Emblemlord claims that Marth has the highest number of KO options, but he's wrong. Our good friend The Lord of All Evil has at least ten viable finishing blows.

Edit: Oh yeah, remember to shout "Darkness Fingerrrr!" Master Asia style whenever you use Warlock Punch.

[JoeMasters]

Ight, need some advice/stratigys against projectiles. Been having the most trouble with Wolf laser and waddles. I know most of the problem is the input lag for the wifis, which fucks up my shields/dodges. But I know im impatient when it comes to projectiles anyway. thanks thanks

[King9999]

Ight, need some advice/stratigys against projectiles. Been having the most trouble with Wolf laser and waddles. I know most of the problem is the input lag for the wifis, which fucks up my shields/dodges. But I know im impatient when it comes to projectiles anyway. thanks thanks

I can tell you that some of Ganondorf's attacks can stuff projectiles. If you're confident in your timing, you can try blocking projectiles with A. Down A also works. You can't block Samus' fully charged beam, and I assume you can't block other fully charged projectiles.

[Nemesis00]

It's hard to do because of the attack speed and landing lag, but his air moves are fucking monstrous save his N-Air.

I play very defensely with Ganon, and then go into a psuedo rushdown mode, and then turtle some.

[El Maniatico]

Ight, need some advice/stratigys against projectiles. Been having the most trouble with Wolf laser and waddles. I know most of the problem is the input lag for the wifis, which fucks up my shields/dodges. But I know im impatient when it comes to projectiles anyway. thanks thanks

Wait so the sparks from neutral A work like a parry?

[King9999]

Here are Ganondorf's attacks. I tested them with Mario, and I used Final Destination and Battlefield. I hope this is useful to someone...


standing A attacks
-----------

neutral A: 7% close, 9% far
-blocks projectiles (will NOT block maxed-out chargeable projectiles)
-this move will KO, although at very high percentages

side A: 12% close, 13% far
-blocks projectiles (will NOT block maxed-out chargeable projectiles)
-great for sending opponents flying. Always use this move if you want to create some distance/KO the target.

down A: 12%
-blocks projectiles (will NOT block maxed-out chargeable projectiles)
-Good for KOs. Sends the target up.

up A: 19% close, 27% far, 17% if only explosion hits
-sucks in target. Also sucks in targets standing on platforms above Ganon. Excellent for KOs, but you'll never land this move in a 1 on 1 battle unless you use certain items. Better suited for FFA's against unsuspecting players or if you have a smoke ball/trap item.

dash A: 15%
-Great for KOs, sends opponents upward. You won't fall off the edge using this.


Jumping A attacks
---------------

neutral A: 11% + 7%
-Easier to land both hits against a jumping target with low damage, as the first hit will knock them far if their damage is high.

side A: 15% close, 17% far
-One of Ganon's best KO moves, IMO. Just watch out for the recovery frames when you land.


down A: 22%
-Spikes if done on an aerial target. If the target is standing, down A will launch target straight up at high percentages.
-Recovery frames upon landing. If you use the move at the height of Ganon's jump, there's no recovery. All you have to do is press down A or C-Stick down IMMEDIATELY after you press the jump button.

up A: 13% close, 12% far, 12% close (back attack), 10% far (back attack), 6% far (back attack, hit with foot)
-As you can see, the damage varies depending on where Ganon hits the target. Hitting the target with the back attack & foot seems to send the target downwards, but it doesn't appear to be reliable for KOs.

back A: 16%
-Good for KOs, but it seems every character has a good back A.


Smash attacks
--------------

F-smash: 24%, 33% fully charged
-Very powerful even without charging it. A bit of startup time. Launches opponent forward.


D-smash: 5% + 14%, 7% + 19% charged
-Strikes anyone in front of and behind Ganon. The second hit launches the opponent. The first strike does not need to connect for the second hit to launch. Sometimes the first hit will knock opponent away to the point where the second hit won't connect...not sure what causes this.

U-smash: 19%, 26% charged
-sends opponent up. Not much more to say about this one except use it...

Grabs
-------

U-Grab: 4% + 3%
-Ganon's best grab. It sends the target up high, so it's good if you want a KO.

F-Grab: 5% + 8%
-Doesn't send target very far.

Back Grab: 5% + 5%
-Same properties as F-Grab.

D-Grab: 7%
-Can be used for chain grabbing.


B attacks
-----------

Neutral B: 32%, 35% reverse
-Excellent KO move. Better suited for FFA's. Less startup time than in Melee, but not quite as fast as Falcon Punch. More startup time on reverse version. Sadly, no super armor on this move.

Side B: 9% standing, 12% air, 4% if air version is used over water
-Unblockable. Can be used for all kinds of setups. Air version can be used for suicides, but if you use it in water or lava, neither you nor the target will die. Good for horizontal recovery, but will end up in a falling state afterwards. Ganon has super armor the moment he grabs someone and it lasts for the duration of the grab. If you have a Smash Ball, use side B before using it.
-Do NOT use this move near the edge of a stage.

Up B: 11%, 7% whiffed
-Damages any opponent that approaches Ganon while he's in the middle of the grab. Whiffed version strikes opponent, but you'd be lucky if you scored a KO with it.

Down B: 12% close, 10% far, 15% close (air), 14% far (air)
-Ground version sends opponents flying, and can be used to KO off the stage if timed properly and it doesn't get stuffed by an attack. Air version spikes, but you probably won't recover on the stage unless you're really high in the air.
-Air version has recovery animation if you land on the ground with it.
-If you come into contact with a wall (ground version), you will bounce off it.

[JoeMasters]

good shit. I figured his jab would be best for it. Its just hard to time in wifi matches with the input lag. I also found if you Wizard Foot a waddle being thrown, it'll cancel out and you can throw out another free Wizards Foot.


Ganonicide is SAFE in water. I hear lava too but I didn't test it :/

[King9999]

good shit. I figured his jab would be best for it. Its just hard to time in wifi matches with the input lag. I also found if you Wizard Foot a waddle being thrown, it'll cancel out and you can throw out another free Wizards Foot.


Ganonicide is SAFE in water. I hear lava too but I didn't test it :/

I just tried the Ganoncide in the water and in lava. Although you don't die, the opponent won't, either. Instead, the opponent takes 4% damage (in water). I edited the movelist to reflect this new info.

[Giza]

On brinstar I have gotten a kill with his suicide through lava. I lived and my opponent died. It seems to only work on some characters, in any case the opponent takes way more damage than you from it.

[Swoops]

Hey, do you think anybody can test the frames out on Ganon's instant shock wave (his jump canceled out by an instant aerial vB)? I'm wondering whether it's faster than his jab and if it can be guaranteed after Gerudo choke. If it's guaranteed it could become very useful.

[jubeh]

It's probably guaranteed with the same characters that you can side b > jab with, but I can't test it right now.

Is it cool if we adopt the term Spartan Kick for his ftilt? It's, like, the same kick Leonidas uses to own Persians.

But what I really wanted to ask is if anyone has come up with some decent anti-Marth strategies? I need to break through short hopped double fairs.

[Snatcher]

Is it cool if we adopt the term Spartan Kick for his ftilt? It's, like, the same kick Leonidas uses to own Persians.

I don't think we should, I mean, Ganon's a lot better than Leonidas. Would Ganon have missed Xerxes with that spear?

[jubeh]

I don't think we should, I mean, Ganon's a lot better than Leonidas. Would Ganon have missed Xerxes with that spear?

Ganon's lack of a projectile game makes me say yes. But Ganon's manbeard makes me say no.

[Nemesis00]

Sick mind game. If you have your back to the opponent on the ground, and you jump back and do a BAir, you land right behind them with no lag and can Test Big Boot their ass off of the stage or do whatever your heat disires. Works nice for Mario sized characters.

[Swoops]

But what I really wanted to ask is if anyone has come up with some decent anti-Marth strategies? I need to break through short hopped double fairs.

Not sure about it because I don't play many marth's, but wizard's foot might be a decent advance to eat through fairs.
Overall I would stay on the defensive with Marth because you don't have that many great advances
save maybe well spaced fairs and uairs. Dash might be quick enough to get through.

I'm starting to incorporate instant vB into my game as a punisher out of shield and a roll punisher, so it might be something useful against marth.

[jubeh]

I found out that you can just drop shield after the second fair and jab. Lawl.

[JoeMasters]

Haven't played any marths yet either. Can't wait till I do though. The Shield fair jab thing sounds pretty solid jubeh. I'd imagine Wizard's Foot would be great for him too, along with intant stomping, and f-tilts/uair/bair for spacing.

[Brahma]

I doubt wizard foot eats through anything besides jabs. It cancels against DK ftilt.

[jubeh]

Wizard's foot is stopped by G&W's sausage's. Just a note.

It's also a good surprise killer. If your opponent somehow forgets you can use it in the air, and they chase your for the kill, you can get a surprise spike on them. And because of the wonky physics, sometimes they'll fly straight up for a vertical kill.

[Swoops]

It plows right through nikitas though, and waddles if the animation starts up soon enough.

[JoeMasters]

I doubt wizard foot eats through anything besides jabs. It cancels against DK ftilt.

yes it doooooes. Read swoop's post ^_^'

It cant eat G&W sausages, because of the shady start up and theres a million of them. I just wait for the dude to get bored.

[Tigerboi]

back A: 16%
-Good for KOs, but it seems every character has a good back A. (except link and pikachu)


Fixed.

Also, unlike Falcon's, Ganon's dair seems to meteor at almost every part of the hitbox if I'm not mistaken.

[Miracle Matter]

I think his d-air meteors as long as it hits you. The hitbox on d-air is ridiculously huge now. The hitbox seems to extend from his legs into up into his torso.

Check out this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzg6XwMOfUA

At 0:18 he uses it as a ledge hop attack and hits Snake with it although he is above him on stage. He does it again in the air at 1:28.

Oh yeah, disregard the box spike.

[Snatcher]

Holy God, Olimar Vs. Ganon is so brutal for Ganon. It feels like you just stand there and die a slow rainbow death.

[Tigerboi]

I think his d-air meteors as long as it hits you. The hitbox on d-air is ridiculously huge now. The hitbox seems to extend from his legs into up into his torso.

Check out this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzg6XwMOfUA

At 0:18 he uses it as a ledge hop attack and hits Snake with it although he is above him on stage. He does it again in the air at 1:28.

Oh yeah, disregard the box spike.

I have infact meteored from Ganon's hip level.

I think ganon would be alot better if he could turn a landed side-b into a ko situation.

[jubeh]

Holy God, Olimar Vs. Ganon is so brutal for Ganon. It feels like you just stand there and die a slow rainbow death.

I've experienced this first hand. It's rape in a box.

[Brahma]

It plows right through nikitas though, and waddles if the animation starts up soon enough.

Everything "plows" through Nikitas. If Nikita gets hit by any attack, it changes course. If it gets shield canceled, it explodes on any sort of contact. If you're plowing through Nikitas, it's just because the Snake wasn't smart/fast enough to drop it on you.

Yes, it goes through WDees too, but you have to be close enough to hit both the WDee and Dedede, which is the tricky part. A good Dedede won't spam WDee right in your face. If you're far away you just eat Ftilt or A combo and the stage is reset.

Brawl Ganondorf is slower than Melee Bowser.

[Sonichuman]

Is it cool if we adopt the term Spartan Kick for his ftilt? It's, like, the same kick Leonidas uses to own Persians.



I don't think we should, I mean, Ganon's a lot better than Leonidas. Would Ganon have missed Xerxes with that spear?

Ganon's lack of a projectile game makes me say yes. But Ganon's manbeard makes me say no.

lol...I don't see a problem with it...especially since when i get hit by it i'm usually sent off the stage.

[Swoops]

If you're plowing through Nikitas, it's just because the Snake wasn't smart/fast enough to drop it on you.

Lol I've plowed through the nikitas you've sent at me on countless occasions. You're insulting your own Snake, brahma :p.

I'm really just using nikitas and wdees as an example.
I don't know what exactly warlock kick goes through, but I need to check it out. It still has decently high priority.

Brawl Ganondorf is slower than Melee Bowser.

'Tis true. But since overall, Brawl got slower, I like to think that relatively he's fine. ...little too optomistic.

[Jammin'Jobus]

its hopeless.

ganon is that bad in my opinion.

[Snatcher]

its hopeless.

ganon is that bad in my opinion.

You deserve to go play Toon Link or Pit, then be sodomized with a bus.

[Tigerboi]

^Agreed

up smash is stupid fast I realized. lol.

[Brahma]

Lol I've plowed through the nikitas you've sent at me on countless occasions. You're insulting your own Snake, brahma :p.


Vids or it didn't happen.

[Swoops]

Ah so we're playin that way. I might be able to use my FliP video thing for vids the next time we play online.

[Tiberious]

I seem to be able to get a reliable DTilt off after Gerudo Choke (SideB) on Marth, but not Ike.

Unforunately, I see the Emblemfags getting ALOT of playtime online, but my 'Old Man Ganon' (white hair) is slowly stepping his game up. I just LOVE when an Ike rolls behind me after the SideB, only to meet the back half of my DSmash. Almost like that shit was MADE for the situation.

However, I play alot of 'With Anyone' brawls, and for whatever reason, my input lag is actually BETTER there than with friends... WTF's that all about?

[King9999]

If you come across a blue Ganon, chances are it's me. I rarely see Ganons around, so it should be easy to identify who the Ganon players are.

[Swoops]

I seem to be able to get a reliable DTilt off after Gerudo Choke (SideB) on Marth, but not Ike.

I've found it doesn't work on anyone. If any human player rolls out or wake up attacks right as soon as possible it won't connect. It sucks, the only guaranteed thing after gerudo is jab on certain people.

[jubeh]

I believe it works on people who have that little bounce animation after the grab.

[Swoops]

Dtilt or jab? Jab is guaranteed on people with the bounce anim but dtilt doesn't :sad:.
Not saying that it isn't a viable (and pretty good) option after gerudo, just not a given.

[jubeh]

Oh, my bad. Jab is guaranteed. Iduno about dtilt.

[JoeMasters]

Jab AND ftilt are guarenteed on certain characters.

@Tiberious: nah me too dude. Input lag is WAY better in the "anyone" games then friend games. Im almost at the point where I dont wanna play anymore wifis because of the input lag. Makes my Ganon feel even slower, even after I get used to it.

[SN3S]

I seem to be able to get a reliable DTilt off after Gerudo Choke (SideB) on Marth, but not Ike.


Dtlit works only on a certain few characters, and even then it's dependant on how quick the opponent reacts to it. It's a good surprise option though, and that's how I like the wakeup options on the Choke: A lot of variety and a lot of options

I've found it doesn't work on anyone. If any human player rolls out or wake up attacks right as soon as possible it won't connect. It sucks, the only guaranteed thing after gerudo is jab on certain people.
QFT, The only guaranteed folowup after Gerudo Choke is the jab. Otherwise, it's half throw-it-out-there-and-see-if-it'll-connect, and half watch-what-your-opponent-does-on-wakeup-or-know-what-they're-doing-and-punish-them.

If you come across a blue Ganon, chances are it's me. I rarely see Ganons around, so it should be easy to identify who the Ganon players are.

Aye, although I've got like 3 people on my friends list that play Ganon, and my bro plays him as well. I'm keepin' em all down with my man Ganon though :rofl:
I also play as a blue Ganon

But I guess I shouldn't just step in this thread and start throwing out my ideas without an intro :rofl:

I'm SN3S, and I play Bowser/Ganon/Falco most of the time. I'm pretty much a beginner though, so I hope to learn and share with all of you guys. If you want to see my skill, I've got vids up here (http://www.dailymotion.com/_SN3S/1), although most of them are playing wi-fi against people half a continent away. However, I've got a few non-wi-fi matches up, and those I'm somewhat proud of.

See you all around!

[Swoops]

I'm SN3S, and I play Bowser/Ganon/Falco most of the time. I'm pretty much a beginner though, so I hope to learn and share with all of you guys. If you want to see my skill, I've got vids up here, although most of them are playing wi-fi against people half a continent away. However, I've got a few non-wi-fi matches up, and those I'm somewhat proud of.

Hello SN3S! Lol I'd feel awkward not introducing myself so I'm Swoops. You have one of the better ganons I've seen so far. I'm not really in the position to give much advice yet, but after wizard's foot to push em off the edge you should try immediate uair, rejumped if you have to, instead of just dj-ing onto the stage. Or something I've been wanting to try out is rejumped fair or dair especially.


QFT, The only guaranteed folowup after Gerudo Choke is the jab. Otherwise, it's half throw-it-out-there-and-see-if-it'll-connect, and half watch-what-your-opponent-does-on-wakeup-or-know-what-they're-doing-and-punish-them.


I think this seems like ganon's playstyle in general,
where tech skill just isn't as important as reading and anticipation (but maybe that's just brawl).

[King9999]

Here's a nice vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyZUlALAArc&feature=related

This is good to know, because I hardly use the stomp. This should improve my game considerably if I can do this consistently.

[Nemesis00]

For some reason, all of my success with Ganon comes from playing him like the game were Street Fighter 2 with a mix of Smash. It just helps with his natural character lag and strengths.

[SkyeElemental]

For some reason, all of my success with Ganon comes from playing him like the game were Street Fighter 2 with a mix of Smash. It just helps with his natural character lag and strengths.

Ditto, except apply it to 3S. I main Alex, and Ganon plays somewhat similarly to him

[KMD]

Here's a nice vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyZUlALAArc&feature=related

This is good to know, because I hardly use the stomp. This should improve my game considerably if I can do this consistently.

You can also do that with Up on the Control Stick and Down on the C-Stick. I call them "Insta-Dairs", and they are very nice. Gives him a nice crossup game and is surprisingly good against shields.

[SN3S]

Hello SN3S! Lol I'd feel awkward not introducing myself so I'm Swoops. You have one of the better ganons I've seen so far. I'm not really in the position to give much advice yet, but after wizard's foot to push em off the edge you should try immediate uair, rejumped if you have to, instead of just dj-ing onto the stage. Or something I've been wanting to try out is rejumped fair or dair especially.

I think this seems like ganon's playstyle in general,
where tech skill just isn't as important as reading and anticipation (but maybe that's just brawl).

Hey man, thanks for the tip. I've been doing that more often but I don't seem to pull it off in those vids :lol:

And yeah, Ganon's more about reading the opponent and making sure you connect, as you don't have much room for error.

Ditto, except apply it to 3S. I main Alex, and Ganon plays somewhat similarly to him

Aye, Alex is my Secondary in 3S, and I love how he plays. Always keeping the other guy down, just like Ganon.

You can also do that with Up on the Control Stick and Down on the C-Stick. I call them "Insta-Dairs", and they are very nice. Gives him a nice crossup game and is surprisingly good against shields.

It's actually called frame-canceling, from what I read on smashboards. But yeah, it's very useful for any ganon. Just shorthop with the analog stick and immediately throw out a dair with the c-stick. Even if you don't connect, it should cancel the ending lag. You can also cancel the u-air's ending lag the same way.

[JoeMasters]

Thunderstorming should be in ALL ganon player's arsenal. Its that fucking good. im not going into detail... because I wanna play brawl now.:woot:

[omfg]

I'm not much of a Ganondorf strategist and I didn't read the thread yet, but I've got a rule of thumb. If you pretend to be the biggest badass in the universe, you'll succeed with him. It's weird.. but it works.

[SN3S]

Thunderstorming should be in ALL ganon player's arsenal. Its that fucking good. im not going into detail... because I wanna play brawl now.:woot:

Indeed. It's a must; you need to cancel this move's lag.

I'm not much of a Ganondorf strategist and I didn't read the thread yet, but I've got a rule of thumb. If you pretend to be the biggest badass in the universe, you'll succeed with him. It's weird.. but it works.

Hmm, it is true. Normally I'm a nice guy, but when I play ganon and some pit tries to take me on, I go full-on-evil-warlock mode. "So you're an angel... THEN FLY!" *Thunderstomps* :lol:

[Tiberious]

Yeah, I don't use the C-stick either, so I get the quickstomp by pianoing Y and A like in the YT video (or whichever button is the one directly above A).

Whatever works for you, right?

[JoeMasters]

Yeah, I don't use the C-stick either, so I get the quickstomp by pianoing Y and A like in the YT video (or whichever button is the one directly above A).

Whatever works for you, right?

yup, I use both. Piano method for run stomps, and c-stick for backwords /reverse stomps. KoE 4 LIF

[Oroman]

Up tilts are fun as hell after doing the Side B. It sets it up perfectly because by the time they get up they'll take a heel to the face :lol:.

[Swoops]

Up tilts are fun as hell after doing the Side B. It sets it up perfectly because by the time they get up they'll take a heel to the face :lol:.

Lol I've been doing this every so often too. They usually don't know what is going to happen or where the the move hits (cause the range was incredibly buffed) so they'll usually either get hit thinking they are far enough away or keep rolling backward

[Oroman]

Lol I've been doing this every so often too. They usually don't know what is going to happen or where the the move hits (cause the range was incredibly buffed) so they'll usually either get hit thinking they are far enough away or keep rolling backward

Yea it extends all the way to the explosion which is very nice and it's extremely strong. If you get them near the edge of a stage you can KO people at 60 or 70 percent I think. It depends on the weight though.

[JoeMasters]

I just use utilts when somebody tries to do a horizontel recovery move. Like right back on the stage. Time it right, and if he has 30% or higher, should be an instant K.O. :/

Olimar and Pika are ANNOYING Vs ganon... Among other projectile whores :arazz:

[Oroman]

I just use utilts when somebody tries to do a horizontel recovery move. Like right back on the stage. Time it right, and if he has 30% or higher, should be an instant K.O. :/

Olimar and Pika are ANNOYING Vs ganon... Among other projectile whores :arazz:

I hear ya I'm surprised the developers didn't give Ganon or even Bowser a reflector. Could have at least gave him better recovery IMO.

[JoeMasters]

yeah, or somthing faster to beat the projectiles out. I mean his jab is fine, its just really hard to time in wifi matches.


ATTENTION:

Useful info about Ganon's haymaker (fair) . Its hit way harder if you sweetspot it at the END of the punching animation. Did some tests, knockback is greatly improved but dmg stays the same. So hit at the end of the animation, right when he punch is about to make the 180.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cX0Vk2IDVh0&feature=related <3

[margalis]

I always thought there was something going on with the fAir, because sometimes it would kill at very low percentages and sometimes it wouldn't even knock back all that much.

[Swoops]

It be pretty cool do get some Ganon dittos in with you guys. If anyone wants to play right now, FC is in sig. v

[Swoops]

Lol fantastic, scratch that, something just came up :p. But I'll probably be on later tonight or tomorrow if anyone wants to play.

[JoeMasters]

same. i'll add you in a couple hours. Lets see if we can get somthing going on.

[Oroman]

It be pretty cool do get some Ganon dittos in with you guys. If anyone wants to play right now, FC is in sig. v

I'm game. I must admit my Ganon is scrubby as hell :lol:.

[Swoops]

I'm game. I must admit my Ganon is scrubby as hell :lol:.

Lol well playing ganon or no ganon is fine any way. Mine's not that great either :p

[BigJonStud12]

If anyone is up for a game, or a couple of games, my FC is in my signature. I am trying to get better with my Ganon. I feel that I am pretty good with him, but I have not tested my Ganon against another Ganon in a 1 vs 1 bout. By the way, in reference to Swoops' avatar, Deadpool is the man! :)

[HolyOrderChipp]

I tried to give Ganon a chance, I really did. Now, I'm on the verge of giving up on him. He's SO FUCKING BAD. I love to play him, but really, he sucks. They should have:
Gotten rid of landing recovery on empty jumps
Kept his old Down B properties
Given him better grab range

I'll do a writeup later about how landing recovery on empty jumps, slow-ass moves, and crap throw range make many match ups unwinnable.

[Oroman]

I tried to give Ganon a chance, I really did. Now, I'm on the verge of giving up on him. He's SO FUCKING BAD. I love to play him, but really, he sucks. They should have:
Gotten rid of landing recovery on empty jumps
Kept his old Down B properties
Given him better grab range

I'll do a writeup later about how landing recovery on empty jumps, slow-ass moves, and crap throw range make many match ups unwinnable.

Yea I noticed that. They gave him unnecessary lag on his air attacks. When you do a full hop fair you still get landing lag even though the punching animation is over. It's also like that with his dair. Although people argue that he didn't get nerfed I think they nerfed the hell out of him, along with anyone else that was decent in melee.

[Swoops]

I'll do a writeup later about how landing recovery on empty jumps, slow-ass moves, and crap throw range make many match ups unwinnable.

Lol so you're going to do a write-up on how unbelievably bad ganon is? Well that's just being horribly negative.

[orochizoolander]

I feel any matchup is winnable with gannon as long as they don't have a projectile, even the shittiest projectile i nthe game can royally him up:sad:

[HolyOrderChipp]

Well, you see, Ganon really is horrible. Let's say I jump at my opponent. The opponent should roll behind me every time. If I don't predict the roll, I've done some aerial with big recovery, and get punished. Let's look at what can happen even if I predict the roll. If I try a B Air, It will go active and I'll land before the roll finishes most likely. Now, I could double jump and try D air or something, but that's not very practical. Now let's say I land. I have landing recovery, whether I did a move or not. Even if my opponent doesn't recover soon enough to punish, the best I can do is shield. Guess what? I've just blocked an attack from behind, and can't punish. This is the BEST outcome Ganon can get by jumping in. If I do Side or Down B, my opponent will certainly roll behind me and recover before I do (More so for Down B). If I run in, my opponent can again roll behind me. The difference from Melee here is that you can't grab people out of rolls anymore. Ganon must play VERY defensively to even stand a chance. To top this all off, Ganon has terrible grab range, so his punishment options out of shield are decidedly lacking. To sum it up, Rolls > Ganon. I love Ganon, but he really is bottom tier. You have to be very unpredictable to even start an offense, whereas everyone else can just short hop to their hearts' content. Yes Ganon's mix ups are scary, and he KOs really well, but it's SO DAMN HARD to even get hits in.

[Swoops]

Well, you see, Ganon really is horrible. Let's say I jump at my opponent. The opponent should roll behind me every time. If I don't predict the roll, I've done some aerial with big recovery, and get punished. Let's look at what can happen even if I predict the roll. If I try a B Air, It will go active and I'll land before the roll finishes most likely. Now, I could double jump and try D air or something, but that's not very practical. Now let's say I land. I have landing recovery, whether I did a move or not. Even if my opponent doesn't recover soon enough to punish, the best I can do is shield. Guess what? I've just blocked an attack from behind, and can't punish. This is the BEST outcome Ganon can get by jumping in. If I do Side or Down B, my opponent will certainly roll behind me and recover before I do (More so for Down B). If I run in, my opponent can again roll behind me. The difference from Melee here is that you can't grab people out of rolls anymore. Ganon must play VERY defensively to even stand a chance. To top this all off, Ganon has terrible grab range, so his punishment options out of shield are decidedly lacking. To sum it up, Rolls > Ganon. I love Ganon, but he really is bottom tier. You have to be very unpredictable to even start an offense, whereas everyone else can just short hop to their hearts' content. Yes Ganon's mix ups are scary, and he KOs really well, but it's SO DAMN HARD to even get hits in.

I understand most of your frustration, I really do, especially grab range. Don't jump in that often unless your thunderstorming (I dont like the name, but its stuck). This is a very safe approach if you're looking to approach. They shield, he has a big enough grab range to grab if you're in front of them. You can also follow up with another dair, jab, gerudo, hell a lot of things. If your looking for more approaches there's always his dash, which goes about the distance of gerudo, high priority, and strong as all hell.

Gerudo choke is safe (not in every instance of course, this isn't a normal fighting game), no matter if they dodge, you can get out of followups. Wizard's foot is a pretty good move I've found, but it's only very punishable if they shield or roll out of the very end animation of the move.

Ganon's mix-ups are godly. That's why he needs to revolve a large portion of his game around them. Not only does he mix up out of gerudo well, but also OoS. Shield>lcanceled dair, shield>jab, shield>isw (instant shockwave, aerial wizfoot), shield>s-hopped gerudo, and in some rare cases shield grab.

He doesn't have lag on empty jumps, it just looks like he does. Also, thunderstorming>rolls. I'm actually thinking of writing up a short ganon guide maybe, because I have a lot more.

[margalis]

95% of the time the only reason to jump at someone with Gannon is to do his thunderstorm or side-B. You should never do an aerial with big recovery. It's just not worth it unless you are hitting air to air or hitting someone on a platform above you.

How do you play defensively with Gannon? He has no projectile and his moves have poor vertical coverage. If someone is approaching you and you throw out a poke there is a good chance they will roll through it or jump over it. He has basically no defense against jumping attacks other than to block, uTilt is useless and uSmash has a tiny hitbox.

To me Gannon is the Zangief of this game. Walk forward and use a combination of dodging, perfect shielding, rolling etc to get close and go from there.

[Swoops]

95% of the time the only reason to jump at someone with Gannon is to do his thunderstorm or side-B. You should never do an aerial with big recovery. It's just not worth it unless you are hitting air to air or hitting someone on a platform above you.

How do you play defensively with Gannon? He has no projectile and his moves have poor vertical coverage. If someone is approaching you and you throw out a poke there is a good chance they will roll through it or jump over it. He has basically no defense against jumping attacks other than to block, uTilt is useless and uSmash has a tiny hitbox.

To me Gannon is the Zangief of this game. Walk forward and use a combination of dodging, perfect shielding, rolling etc to get close and go from there.

Well, on the defensive side, uair is very good for anti-air. It has good reach, a lot of priority, and is surprisingly powerful at decent percents. Jab is very good defensively. Usmash really doesn't have that small of a hitbox, and is kinda fast, but not all that great for defense. I've found he's not so much defense (I thought he was at first) as he is reaction and getting in your opponents mindset. Which is why I like him because I was all about tech in melee, he's the complete opposite.

Approaching wise, you're usually going to be on the ground, with gerudo, dash, or wizard's foot. Thunderstorming is always great to come in with, <3 stomp. Also, I've come to think that fair actually kinda sucks. It definitely has it's uses in spacing, but ultimately its slow, and gets beat out by faster aerials. Plus it becomes less of a good spacing tool when its so laggy in every aspect. I've come to think of it like donkey's fair in melee.

Its Ganon, not Gannon :p

[orochizoolander]

I found out that you can do an instant wizards foot just press jump and immediately press downB and gannon doesn't even leave the ground he just hits downwards kneeling on one knee to know you did it right.

I play aggressively with ganon using choke and dash attack as my main approaches, i know fair has a lot of lag but I use it more then I should because i love the incredible ko power it has.

After choke if they just lay on the ground i like to do instant SH stomp and then follow up with uair (dair has no lag if you do it immediately after SH.)

BTW uair is a very spammable move it has an incredibly large hitbox and it's a good approach as well.

[margalis]

Yeah, uAir is good. Hits behind him also. Air to air Ganon is good from certain angles, although fAir is slow to come out. Air to ground I don't find the uAir very useful. His bAir seems almost totally useless, it has a very awkward angle.

I find it very hard to hit with his uSmash against people in the air. They DI 1/2 character width and it whiffs. It's not even very good against people on platforms above you. I pretty much use uAir instead.

I love the choke because it forces them to do something other than block, and once your opponent is weary of blocking you're in good shape.

Also his dTilt seems to have really good range and it knocks people up which is nice. I was testing in training against Lucas and the range on it is much better than fTilt, not sure if that is just some weird Lucas thing or what.

Also I think a Wizards's Foot immediately after a footstool stomp is unblockable but I'm not 100% sure. Has anyone tested that out?

[JoeMasters]

There is NO reason why you should try to get in with jump attacks unless they are lag free ones.

uair: Amazing anti-air/platform punisher. Lag free short hop version is too good. very good for edge hopping back on stages. A MUST HAVE.

dair: one of ganon's best moves/finishers. thunderstroming is a must have. Can rank up damage like no other. great for mix-ups.

fair: a POWERHOUSE. People who can be unpredictable and set up well with this ariel has a strong ganon game. AMAZING knockback if sweetspotted.

bair: great for mix-ups. Short hopped lag free version can be whiffed into anything. range decent, knockback good.

( All of these moves are great Finishers )

air gerudo choke a.k.a. ganonicide: obviously a great suicide move, good for starting a mix up chain, good recovery move.

air Wizard Foot: pretty fast, a lot of power, good K.O. move. Good for suprises. Can be done instantaniously, but only the move's power splash damage will hit. Still very quick.

ganon isnt horrible at all. If you know what moves not to use/abuse against certain match ups/ situations, and play him unpredictablly, hes amazing imo.

IN ORDER TO PLAY AN EFFECTIVE GANON, YOU NEED TO BE KNOLOGABLE OF HIM. hes not a Mario or Meta Knight.

P.S. Projectiles do fuck his shit up. Short hop mind games/jab stuffing are working more for me then anything else.

[Brahma]

Its Ganon, not Gannon :p

Actually it's Ganondorf. Ganon is his beast form. ;p

How do you sweetspot Fair?

[UltraDavid]

I rarely jump anymore with Ganon. If I'm edgeguarding I'll do a reverse uair, if I expect the opponent to sit there or try a wakeup after command grab I'll do short jump dair, and if I need to jump over a projectile then I will, but generally I want to stay on the ground. Ganon's jab, fair, and dair are great pokes, and in some matchups really make things more manageable. These moves deal reasonably well with a lot of characters' short jump shenanigans, and alpha canceled dash attacks, down+b, and command grab do as well. Against most non-projectile characters I basically walk up, choose my spots, and zone the opponent out with one of the above attacks.

[BigJonStud12]

When I am facing a non-projectile opponent, I try to keep my back towards them. I do this to make them think. If they try to dash in and attack, I merely sidestep and hit them with the jab. If they try to poke me, I can either short hop forward or hit them with the bair. Since I have to chose my shots with Ganon, my strategy with him is to make the opponent hesitate with their attacks by stopping and thinking. That way, I am able to control the pace of the match while having counter measures established.

[Swoops]

air gerudo choke a.k.a. ganonicide: obviously a great suicide move, good for starting a mix up chain, good recovery move.
QUOTE]

Lol I don't like using ganoncide. I really don't. You do it on DK and you die first. I don't even who dies first in what situations. Just a stylish thing to do. But OoS air gerudo choke is fantastic. Just immediately after SHing out of shield >B. Probably the best thing out of gerudo (if you're planning on roll chasing and not jab) is to hold up shield. There you have air gerudo, shield get up, or drop shield>anything.

[QUOTE=Brahma;5027865]Actually it's Ganondorf. Ganon is his beast form. ;p

How do you sweetspot Fair?

Hit it with the ending animation of the punch, the bottom portion of the move.

[King9999]

I found out that you can do an instant wizards foot just press jump and immediately press downB and gannon doesn't even leave the ground he just hits downwards kneeling on one knee to know you did it right.



I tried that a few times. Pretty cool, but does it have a practical use, other than not having to jump?


ATTENTION:

Useful info about Ganon's haymaker (fair) . Its hit way harder if you sweetspot it at the END of the punching animation. Did some tests, knockback is greatly improved but dmg stays the same. So hit at the end of the animation, right when he punch is about to make the 180.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cX0Vk2IDVh0&feature=related <3

I've been trying to do this, but I can't seem to do it. I know that the knockback is higher if you strike with the tip, but you're saying that you can get even more knockback?

[UltraDavid]

Ganoncide is really only useful as a way to deter people from edgeguarding you overly aggressively. This should only be used situationally, since an opponent who's up a stock will gladly make that trade, and if you're up on an opponent in percentage and tied in stock and there isn't a real danger that your edgeguarding opponent will kill you, then that trade isn't worth it to you. It also doesn't make sense if you think the opponent might dodge and you're not close enough to catch the ledge if you miss. But in other situations, go for it.

[Brahma]

If I'm playing vs. Ganon and he's returning to the edge with >B and I have high damage, I just jump in front of the edge for a free kill.

[Swoops]

Lol, which is why I've learned not to use gerudo so much as recovery. UpB is just as viable a recovery option. The sweetspot range on it is somewhat weird though, not sure what it is...maybe it's just in my head. But yea, always better options than ganoncide...but damn is it stylish.

[UltraDavid]

If I'm playing vs. Ganon and he's returning to the edge with >B and I have high damage, I just jump in front of the edge for a free kill.
Well it'd be retarded for the Ganon player to try ganoncide when he's leading in health, obviously. Also obviously, Ganon depends a lot more on jumps and up+B than command grab for recovery. The sweetspot on up+b for it being an actual attack is at the very top and very end of the move; everything before that is just a grab, and then right before the end there's a little period of time where it neither grabs nor hits at all.

[Swoops]

Well it'd be retarded for the Ganon player to try ganoncide when he's leading in health, obviously. Also obviously, Ganon depends a lot more on jumps and up+B than command grab for recovery. The sweetspot on up+b for it being an actual attack is at the very top and very end of the move; everything before that is just a grab, and then right before the end there's a little period of time where it neither grabs nor hits at all.

:P I meant the for edge sweetspotting, shoulda been more clear.

[margalis]

You can also side B someone on the stage when you are off of it right David? I believe you did that to me one game the other night. That should be safe as if they dodge you'll either land or grab the edge.

I'm getting a little better at following up after the choke. Still need a lot of practice though.

[UltraDavid]

It all depends on where the opponent is when you command grab them. Say you're recovering and approaching the edge, and then you do side+b. If you grab them when they're in the air floating over infinity, you'll ganoncide. If you grab them when they're standing on the stage right at the edge or when they're hanging on the ledge and not invincible, you'll ganoncide there too. If you grab them when they're standing on the stage but not right at the edge, you'll just throw them down like normal. If you grab them when they're floating over the stage, you'll grab them and throw them down, but you won't be able to combo after (although you might be able to combo the final smash still, gotta check that out).

[Brahma]

I think Gdorf gets a huge boost in team play. His slow speed and difficulty with projectile campers is forgiven when he has a faster partner who can press the offensive, rack up damage, and let Gdorf do what he does best with low % kills.

Who do you guys think teams well with Ganon?

[xS A M U R A Ix]

So get this, me and my friend were playing on a custom stage today and found out something that's a true testament to Ganon's bad-assery.

We were working ourselves up to 999% in this boxed in spike pit with walls on all 4 sides, and after I got up to 999% I was like "hey, I wonder what would happen if you warlock punched me right now?". So my friend wound one up and punched me, and I expected to go bouncing off the walls back and forth for a couple of seconds, only.....that didn't happen. Ganon punched me so hard apparently I turned liquid and melded through a wall after bouncing off the first, straight off the side to my death. We were both just like O_O.

So yes. Warlock punch can knock people clear through walls at 999% somehow. Useless, yes, but awesome none the less.

[King9999]

So get this, me and my friend were playing on a custom stage today and found out something that's a true testament to Ganon's bad-assery.

We were working ourselves up to 999% in this boxed in spike pit with walls on all 4 sides, and after I got up to 999% I was like "hey, I wonder what would happen if you warlock punched me right now?". So my friend wound one up and punched me, and I expected to go bouncing off the walls back and forth for a couple of seconds, only.....that didn't happen. Ganon punched me so hard apparently I turned liquid and melded through a wall after bouncing off the first, straight off the side to my death. We were both just like O_O.

So yes. Warlock punch can knock people clear through walls at 999% somehow. Useless, yes, but awesome none the less.

Haha, nice story. I'm sure that would happen with any move, though.

You know what Ganondorf is really good for? Home Run contest. Get two players, beat on Sandbag with stomps, then at the last second, have both players do Warlock Turn Punch instead of using the bat.

[King9999]

One thing I noticed with Ganon's up smash is that you can cancel it immediately after the attack ends...pretty handy. If you whiff the attack, just follow up with another attack or block.

[FoldoutChair]

Yesterday I ended a match with a Warlock Punch.

I instantly grew a huge beard, a Scottish accent and a claymore in hand.

Now I know why you would play Ganondorf.

I think Gdorf gets a huge boost in team play. His slow speed and difficulty with projectile campers is forgiven when he has a faster partner who can press the offensive, rack up damage, and let Gdorf do what he does best with low % kills.

Who do you guys think teams well with Ganon?


I can vouch for this. It's beautiful provided you and your partner work well together. My friend used Pikachu but I'm sure there are better combinations out there. Perhaps Game&Watch, Zamus or even... Toon Link?

[JoeMasters]

One thing I noticed with Ganon's up smash is that you can cancel it immediately after the attack ends...pretty handy. If you whiff the attack, just follow up with another attack or block.

Its also useful to whiff his short hops/short hop attacks with no lag. Easy to throw people off guard. But you have to know what moves to whiff. If you short hop neutral A, some one can easily take advantage of the lag involved.

[FoldoutChair]

Is there any practical use to the Warlock Punch? Other than being extremely satisfying that is... I can't think of anything that can't be easily gotten out of.

[King9999]

Is there any practical use to the Warlock Punch? Other than being extremely satisfying that is... I can't think of anything that can't be easily gotten out of.

Items that trap the player (e.g. pitfall) are useful for landing the punch. In FFA's, I like to throw out Warlock Punches after getting KO'd before the invincibiliy wears off. You can usually catch someone if they aren't paying attention...I have replays to prove it. :wgrin:

[Swoops]

Its also useful to whiff his short hops/short hop attacks with no lag. Easy to throw people off guard. But you have to know what moves to whiff. If you short hop neutral A, some one can easily take advantage of the lag involved.

I'm doing this constantly in my matches and it helps out a lot. B-air is the main one you want to throw out there because it makes it hard for them to advance aerially. It has good range and priority so they can't go in with their aerials.

When they start to advance on the ground then you get out of your b-airs with no lag and punish. Out of spamming these and retreating with these you can throw out a reversed f-smash (which has more range,) a dash attack, gerudo, wizard's foot, maybe stomp. Anything really, but I've found the most effective is dash attack, f-smash, and gerudo.

[omfg]

K. Anyone remember a while back that I said the more badass you play Ganondorf, the better he is? Try approaching your opponent with lag free stomps. Not only is that effective if you land it, but it looks bad-ass as all hell

[Swoops]

Here's some of my matches if you guys wanna take a look at em :p
http://www.youtube.com/user/tehSANDMAN03

[FoldoutChair]

I like this match. You get to drop the 'bow a lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRcOx7F1q1M

[King9999]

Here's some of my matches if you guys wanna take a look at em :p
http://www.youtube.com/user/tehSANDMAN03

Nice vids. I like how you follow up with stomps after a choke. People usually tend to roll behind Ganon following a choke, and it looks like you picked up on that quite well.

[margalis]

Nice vids. Best Ganon I've seen.

Only bad thing I'd say is that you did a good job chasing people off the edge (that was unreal when you double jumped, hit DK then did the Up+B into him) but you didn't do much to people hanging on the ledge as they tried to get back onto the stage.

Awesome job overall. Finally someone who does't spam f-air!

[JoeMasters]

Good shit Swoops. I'll only say dont spam bair whiffs a lot only because good players will catch on to your baiting after the 2nd time. And a little more short hop mind games wouldn't hurt :lovin:

I dont play online so I cant really play you as much as i want too :/ But keep it up bro.

[Swoops]

Good shit Swoops. I'll only say dont spam bair whiffs a lot only because good players will catch on to your baiting after the 2nd time. And a little more short hop mind games wouldn't hurt :lovin:

I dont play online so I cant really play you as much as i want too :/ But keep it up bro.

Lol I'm trying to use my b-airs just as a wall really if they want to come in with aerials. They're forced to go to the ground so I can cut through them with dash, gerudo, etc. Hopdodge mind games are soooo useful and fun :p. You control the distance you go and it seems like it has less frames that are punishable.

[omfg]

I used to think Ganon was slow and unfit to fight. but after landing some instant D-airs and shadow chokes, this makes me think otherwise. Again, not to try and turn another thread into a tier discussion, but I don't believe he's bottom. Even if he is, it's utterly impossible for him to be DEAD bottom IMO. he's above SOMEONE.

There could be more, but the only matchup I've found hard is vs Wolf.. and IMO depending on the Wolf player, you could outright stomp him (literally) or he could be a stock or two higher. I said I was going to stop posting what I think about character matchups, but I feel I can do so with confidence when I understand it in depth. I played a Wolf the other day that thought it was more important to shoot blaster than it was to attack. Once I figured that out, I made a strategy that allowed me to avoid all his strongest attacks (Without them, Wolf has a VERY hard time trying to KO Ganondorf). The blaster was utterly worthless. I'd walk around with nearly 300% and him clueless on how to finish me. Later, he'd switch to staying semi close so I couldn't tell if he was going to use blaster or an attack.. which was just a rouge cause he was attacking a lot more than before. when he switched to using attacks more, he had more lag.. which meant I was hitting way more often and that I'm a lot closer to him because he wasn't using his blaster (this is EXCELLENT for my style of Ganondorf). Most people would consider Wolf a counterpick, I'd consider the entire matchup a mind game.

I'm currently working on a way for him to fight Snake, but so far I've played only 2

[DaemoN_]

any tips for fighting sonic or mario? I have a real hard time trying to hit sonic and mario spams fireballs and smash attacks

[JoeMasters]

any tips for fighting sonic or mario? I have a real hard time trying to hit sonic and mario spams fireballs and smash attacks


Mario: VSing the plumber is all patients. Dont get to crazy because if you miss a move that has the smallest bit of lag, your gonna get comboed. Oh and bait the SHIT out of him. Whiff a short-hop bair, maybe two, or an up smash, then if he runs in, gerudo choke/thunderstorm/f-tilt/etc. BTW thunderstorming on Mario is VERY useful. You can spam, but just be very cautious.

Regarding the fireballs: Even though he looks it, Ganon is not an indistructable wall. Dont run through the fireballs like they wont matter. because the damage will rack up, and it will cost you the game. There are 3 things you can do about the fireballs.

Perfect Shield - Best approach. Because you can run, cancel to PS, then start funning again or even throw out a Wizards Foot/Gerudo Choke if your in range. This takes A LOT of getting used to so practice practice practice.

Short-hop air dodge: Still a very good approach. Gets you back on your feet quickly too. And if you mix this with double jump fast fall evades, then it keeps the Mario guessing.

Wizards Foot OVER the FB: This is timing obviously. Its really effective, as well as flashy if you can pull it off. But by all means do NOT depend on it.

FUN FACT!!!: your f-smash has more reach then Marios because Ganon steps into the attack.

Sonic: Sonic cant KO you for a LONG time. So do what you do best, rack up damage. Sonic's Spin dash is a small pot hole in your startigy. Mostly because... Wizards Foot takes it right out. Thunderstorming it works too. If he goes for juggles with his uair, time a Wizards Foot counter and that will be over. Thunderstorming is also very good against him. Throw out a Jab if he tries to run up on you/ rush you. Besides that, im not sure what attacks/ startigies are giving you a hard time. If you share that with me I can try to help.

[omfg]

Is there any practical use to the Warlock Punch? Other than being extremely satisfying that is... I can't think of anything that can't be easily gotten out of.
with my playstyle, if the opponent constantly blocks their shield will be shattered. I've done this once before, but I'm not sure if it's a viable tactic because the person I played was some random pubbie. But anyway, if there is a way shatter their shield, warlock punch is very useful. Don't forget to pivot with the punch

any tips for fighting sonic or mario? I have a real hard time trying to hit sonic and mario spams fireballs and smash attacks
About Mario.. not sure since I never really fought one, but that sounds similar to Wolf's playstyle. like the poster above said, perfect shielding helps against projectiles immensely. But basically, if someone is using projectiles, unless it has good knockback (ex. a charged Aura Sphere, Rob's laser) then focus more on being close to them than on defending yourself. as for the smashes, you have to learn when he's going to do them. or maybe you could assume that he'll always land them, so stay out of the range. I'm assuming Mario will feel awkward as hell shooting fireballs when Ganondorf is like 2 feet away.

Sonic can't avoid every Ganondorf attack, no matter how hard he tries spacing (ex. Jab, U-air). Some of Ganondorf's stuff may be slow, but he can certainly land some hits that matter, especially vs another char who's light, lacking great range, and has to fight melee.

[margalis]

Tips against Sonic:

1. Learn the different ball attacks and how to deal with them. It can be annoying at first.

2. Your u-air will beat his dive kick clean. Being underneath Sonic is good.

3. You will probably get thrown a fair amount due to the fact that his run is so fast and your moves are so slow. Don't freak out about it, the important thing is don't let him tech-chase you after a throw.

4. In general don't get frustrated. He can't do much damage or finish you very easily, all he can really do is peck at you.

5. If he goes for the up+B to chase you in the air and you air dodge it you'll fall below him which again is good.

As far as the Warlock punch, you can use it as people are recovering. Sometimes it will hit them and sometimes it will freak them out and make them miss the ledge because they are afraid of coming in too high and getting nailed by it. I only throw it out when it's perfectly safe and chasing them off the stage isn't particularly viable.

[omfg]

you know, I used to use warlock punch like that. however, lots of people will keep complete cool and just simply fuck you up for using it. What might be more practical though is jumping off the edge and doing it.. but I don't wanna experiment with that at all just yet cause I'm totally satisfied with U-air, D-air, and F-air as kill moves

[ArcadeFire]

So I've been messing with Gannondorf lately and how the hell do you guys deal with projectile spam?

[omfg]

try to get powershield and immediately follow that up with an attack if they're weak projectiles (Ex. Mario's fireball, Wolf's laser). If they're stronger or more numerous ones (ex. Falco's laser, Rob's laser), just go all out avoiding them. Projectile spam's the least of your worries as Ganondorf; the only thing you should worry about is being able to build up damage and kill.

quick question. I have a friend that claims shadow grab can be teched and that he techs it all the time. He says he does it VS me all the time, but I've never seen him do it. However, I remember hearing that both shadow grabs are untechable and I've yet to see a teched one. Can it be teched? If so, can you show a video?

[Swoops]

try to get powershield and immediately follow that up with an attack if they're weak projectiles (Ex. Mario's fireball, Wolf's laser). If they're stronger or more numerous ones (ex. Falco's laser, Rob's laser), just go all out avoiding them. Projectile spam's the least of your worries as Ganondorf; the only thing you should worry about is being able to build up damage and kill.

quick question. I have a friend that claims shadow grab can be teched and that he techs it all the time. He says he does it VS me all the time, but I've never seen him do it. However, I remember hearing that both shadow grabs are untechable and I've yet to see a teched one. Can it be teched? If so, can you show a video?

He's a liar liar pants clearly on fire. How does he survive when his legs are engulfed in flames all of the time?

I really wouldn't say projectiles are the least of Ganon's worries. Projecs=Ganon's Bane. But yea walk forward and powershield to close the distance. If you have a little room, Wizard's Foot can help. Just remember that it only eats through projecs when the purple cloud is up, and that takes a split second before it comes out. Dash attack works sometimes but...same thing as wizard's foot. Jabs and f-tilts cancel out some, and hop dodge gets through certain projectiles if you time it right. Ganon needs room to operate but don't let them get away to regroup and throw projectiles. Ganondorf is a very good mid/close-range fighter.

[JoeMasters]

So I've been messing with Gannondorf lately and how the hell do you guys deal with projectile spam?

Perfect shielding, jab canceling, and short hop dodges are your best bet.

Gerudo in NOT techable. By any means. And if he says he does it to you, and you clearly see that he doesn't, theres your answer. He might be mixing up his termonology. He might mean roll tech after he hits the ground.:looney:

[Swoops]

Holy...why are us and the sonic thread the one with the most posts? Ganon=Top Board Tier

[JoeMasters]

Holy...why are us and the sonic thread the one with the most posts? Ganon=Top Board Tier

Because Ganon is the shit my Triforce of Power brotha. Everyone knows he has mad potential. And hes an intresting character, as appose to his melee counter part which compared to this ganon is boring as hell. People like how he plays.

Rep dat Ganon :tup:

P.S. Swoops ima add you on brawl. I dont play much online games due to my lag, but I wanna play another good Ganon.

[omfg]

mb guys, lemme clarify. when I said projectiles are the least of his worries, I didn't mean that they have little effect on him. I mean he's big, not very agile at all, and has to fight close/mid range. Those 3 aspects combined means he absolutely WILL get hit by a projectile at some point. However, Ganondorf is heavy and projectiles don't KO.. so yeah, they are the least of his worries. What he should worry about is not doing damage

[ArcadeFire]

Holy...why are us and the sonic thread the one with the most posts? Ganon=Top Board Tier

It's cause Gannon is such an odd case. He's strong as a motherfucker but good luck getting a hit in...kinda like Hugo lolz. Plus, he's MANLY.

[JoeMasters]

It's cause Gannon is such an odd case. He's strong as a motherfucker but good luck getting a hit in...kinda like Hugo lolz. Plus, he's MANLY.

Ganon is mind games. I haven't seen a lot of SSB players that know how to deal with indept mind games. If you cant read a good Ganon player well at all, its your ass. Ganon reminds me of 3rd strike and the mind games that come from there. I play him like I play Ken in 3rd strike. I use all my options and mix them up. Use fakes, whiffs,etc. I even short hop in --> a grab once in awhile :rofl:. not alot though..... DONT JUDGE MEEE

[omfg]

yeah shorthop grab seems to work VERY well against those assholes who like to block half the stuff you throw out.

btw, fun tip for any Ganondorf who gets to land a lot of D-airs but they're all blocked. As soon as people see what a D-air will do to their shield, they'll refrain from blocking HARD (ex. They'll spot dodge, roll, jump in the air to get away from blocking, attack you so their shield can heal). grabs and U-air work well after landing a blocked D-air. Sometimes, you can even catch them shielding again if you can pressure hard enough. pray that they do, cause if you break it that's a free pivot warlock punch (or if it's Jigglypuff, a free kill).

[Tiberious]

I got done fighting an annoying as fuck Pikachu who really only had one trick...

He LOVED to use DThrow to DSmash. Thing is, you can stick a Wizard's Foot in and at the least, trade. This will do damage and get him off your back for a moment, which should let you at least start up the mind games again.

[JoeMasters]

Pika is one of his more annoying match-ups. Pika's D-Smash is like a magnet to the G-Man.

Btw Ganon players, dont throw out your wizards foot recklessly. It can be dodged by a simple crouch :/

[Tiberious]

I meant between the Throw (maybe it was UThrow?) and DSmash, while you're in the air.

No way in hell would I consider trying to hit something that small with a horizontal Wizard's Foot... That's what the Shoulder's for. Best way to hit with that is to tap forward, and wait until his dash is ALMOST done, and then hit A. Major 'offspeed pitch', and with Ganon being so much about mind games, he needs all the tools he can get.

Hitboxes on him are also insane. The DAir stomp WILL hit from his head down (try it with Sandbag), and the Dashing shoulder charge extends to the floor.

[Swoops]

How do you guys deal with meta's tornado spam? So far the best I've found is wizard's foot down on top of him, elbow, or just shield :p. Problem with elbowing is that it's really slow, and you can only aerial wizard's foot on them if you have enough time (which you usually dont if they're good at controlling it.) It cuts through EVERYTHING. Fuck even f-air, get up attacks, f-tilt...I've been able to get through with b-air ONCE.

[BigJonStud12]

How do you guys deal with meta's tornado spam? So far the best I've found is wizard's foot down on top of him, elbow, or just shield :p. Problem with elbowing is that it's really slow, and you can only aerial wizard's foot on them if you have enough time (which you usually dont if they're good at controlling it.) It cuts through EVERYTHING. Fuck even f-air, get up attacks, f-tilt...I've been able to get through with b-air ONCE.

Yeah, the wizard's kick is one way to deal with the tornado. The only problem, and a major one at that, is that the kick has to be directly on top. If it is off a little, the tornado has the chance to cut right through it. Another way to deal with the tornado is to use the side-b. However, you both need space and time to do this. If you are facing a good MetaKnight, then that will be problem because they will use their side-b in order to close the distance.

[Swoops]

Yeah, the wizard's kick is one way to deal with the tornado. The only problem, and a major one at that, is that the kick has to be directly on top. If it is off a little, the tornado has the chance to cut right through it. Another way to deal with the tornado is to use the side-b. However, you both need space and time to do this. If you are facing a good MetaKnight, then that will be problem because they will use their side-b in order to close the distance.

Gerudo doesn't do shit to tornado, tornado eats it....for breakfast...and light snacks throughout the day. Ground wizard's foot sometimes either cancels out or goes through but the purple cloud has to be out.

[BigJonStud12]

Gerudo doesn't do shit to tornado, tornado eats it....for breakfast...and light snacks throughout the day. Ground wizard's foot sometimes either cancels out or goes through but the purple cloud has to be out.

I'm not so certain. There was one time where I used Gerudo to cancel out the tornado, but that was only one time. All of my other attempts have not been successful. It could have just been that the Gerudo stopped short while the tornado ended, appearing that Gerudo cancelled it out. I will need to test it out some more. Also, what answer do you have against MK's up-b? That move actually gives me more problems then the tornado does.

[Swoops]

I'm not so certain. There was one time where I used Gerudo to cancel out the tornado, but that was only one time. All of my other attempts have not been successful. It could have just been that the Gerudo stopped short while the tornado ended, appearing that Gerudo cancelled it out. I will need to test it out some more. Also, what answer do you have against MK's up-b? That move actually gives me more problems then the tornado does.

Trust me, it landed a split second after tornado stopped :p. I've been testing it and no way does it go through it, I'd throw a pants party if it did. I'm working on some more effective methods of stopping it though, f-air in particular. If you work on spacing and timing just right you can start to eat through tornado with f-air if you land it on the top of meta's tornado. So you don't necessarily have to be above him to counter it, you just have to clonk a f-air on his head.

How does MK's up-b give you trouble? Does the MK use it as a ground attack or are you just having trouble approaching them aerially because they use it to interrupt you?

[BigJonStud12]

Trust me, it landed a split second after tornado stopped :p. I've been testing it and no way does it go through it, I'd throw a pants party if it did. I'm working on some more effective methods of stopping it though, f-air in particular. If you work on spacing and timing just right you can start to eat through tornado with f-air if you land it on the top of meta's tornado. So you don't necessarily have to be above him to counter it, you just have to clonk a f-air on his head.

How does MK's up-b give you trouble? Does the MK use it as a ground attack or are you just having trouble approaching them aerially because they use it to interrupt you?

Well, here is one of my matches with orochi zoolander from Wednesday's tournament. This was the first match, and orochi zoolander beat the crap out of me in it. I did better the second match, but I was still outclassed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDdB9ZUfiH0

My trouble with MK's up-b is when the MK puts me in the air, and they use it as a finishing manuever. Is there any other way to counter it that besides the wizard's kick? I've been thinking about the dair, but I have not tested it. Though, in theory, I do believe it will not counter it. It will instead trade hits, but Ganon would be on the bad end of that trade. But that's only theory and I have not tested it.

[Sample]

how about air dodge ?

[omfg]

Well, here is one of my matches with orochi zoolander from Wednesday's tournament. This was the first match, and orochi zoolander beat the crap out of me in it. I did better the second match, but I was still outclassed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDdB9ZUfiH0

My trouble with MK's up-b is when the MK puts me in the air, and they use it as a finishing manuever. Is there any other way to counter it that besides the wizard's kick? I've been thinking about the dair, but I have not tested it. Though, in theory, I do believe it will not counter it. It will instead trade hits, but Ganon would be on the bad end of that trade. But that's only theory and I have not tested it.
I'm about 90% certain that won't work. D-air is a very slow attack. I think your best bet is just to air dodge it. That move doesn't give me much trouble

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Well, here is one of my matches with orochi zoolander from Wednesday's tournament. This was the first match, and orochi zoolander beat the crap out of me in it. I did better the second match, but I was still outclassed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDdB9ZUfiH0

My trouble with MK's up-b is when the MK puts me in the air, and they use it as a finishing manuever. Is there any other way to counter it that besides the wizard's kick? I've been thinking about the dair, but I have not tested it. Though, in theory, I do believe it will not counter it. It will instead trade hits, but Ganon would be on the bad end of that trade. But that's only theory and I have not tested it.

MK is open after an up B. Say for instance, he aggressively chases you off the ledge with it and tries to go for a low % kill. MK either has to go into glide int he direction he did it or cancel it and go into fall special. Either way, if you're behind him he can't do anything to you. So if you air dodge his KO attempt he's forced to cancel it into fall special and DI back towards the stage. If he did it too far out, simply grabbing the ledge and hanging there will kill him. If he aims for the stage, have a f.smash waiting for him.

So how do ganon players deal with sonic? He seems to be able to run away and pick all his fights. I really have no idea how to handle him as ganon.

[BigJonStud12]

MK is open after an up B. Say for instance, he aggressively chases you off the ledge with it and tries to go for a low % kill. MK either has to go into glide int he direction he did it or cancel it and go into fall special. Either way, if you're behind him he can't do anything to you. So if you air dodge his KO attempt he's forced to cancel it into fall special and DI back towards the stage. If he did it too far out, simply grabbing the ledge and hanging there will kill him. If he aims for the stage, have a f.smash waiting for him.

So how do ganon players deal with sonic? He seems to be able to run away and pick all his fights. I really have no idea how to handle him as ganon.

I have not dealt much against Sonic with Ganon. However, with my limited experience, the best way that I fought was to let Sonic come to me. It is just pointless to try to catch Sonic. Instead, pay attention to what type of roll Sonic is in. The roll will foreshadow what special he is going to use. For example, if Sonic is in one place spinning, more than likely Sonic is using his down-b. Depending on the space between Ganon and Sonic depends on what counter-measures to use. If it is a good distance away, counter with the wizard's kick. It's the safest. If Sonic is within Ganon's side-b, go ahead and use that. It should counter Sonic's move. Learning to read Sonic's roll is the key to beating Sonic.

Also, thanks to all for the help. It seems that I really need to get better with timing my air dodges when facing that move.

[Swoops]

Yea, air dodge is the easiest and safest counter for MK's up-b. He's just a little ball of priority, but he has vulnerability after his specials. With sonic learn to time your stomps and all of your defenses, it's a lot harder in lag. Gerudo, dash, wizard's foot, and stomp all go through his roll approaches if you work on your timing. If short hops and takes to the air you should still be able to shoulder and wizard's foot through him.

[Tiberious]

Ok, I hate asking this, but what are the matchups for Ganon? I'm talking everyone... good, bad or indifferent. I'd want to start coming up with ways to make sure people know he's not to be fucked around with.

[orochizoolander]

I have not dealt much against Sonic with Ganon. However, with my limited experience, the best way that I fought was to let Sonic come to me. It is just pointless to try to catch Sonic. Instead, pay attention to what type of roll Sonic is in. The roll will foreshadow what special he is going to use. For example, if Sonic is in one place spinning, more than likely Sonic is using his down-b. Depending on the space between Ganon and Sonic depends on what counter-measures to use. If it is a good distance away, counter with the wizard's kick. It's the safest. If Sonic is within Ganon's side-b, go ahead and use that. It should counter Sonic's move. Learning to read Sonic's roll is the key to beating Sonic.

Also, thanks to all for the help. It seems that I really need to get better with timing my air dodges when facing that move.

My ganon has a lot of experience with sonic and it's not an easy matchup at all sonic can hit n run ganon all day if the ganon player isn't good at anticipating his attacks. When I play against sonic I just try to counter the spindash attacks with wizard footand spam uair a lot it works pretty good.

Also don't forget after gerudo choke you can jab sonic cuz he bounces:woot: