Latest Hands on Preview

[Atb_555]

http://www.neoempire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3289

Good read check it out. Its the latest hands on impression by a friend I know who works for OXM.

[EndLeSS8]

There's no more dash cancelling?!

When did they make this change?

The pics of Abel whipping around Guile look cool

[fallot]

This is the best SF4 preview/player feedback yet. Thanks for posting it up.

[Atb_555]

Dont thank me thank the guy who wrote it.

[Sasmasta]

Abel's a 360 fighter eh?

That's cool. I was thinking they would make him like Alex.

[Edi. E]

Wait, Sagat and Balrog aren't playable in the game at all, or just the version he was playing?

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

Ultras aren't comboable, that's a good thing. Now everyone can shush about the insane amount of damage it does considering it's a high risk/high reward thing now.

@Samasta, I thought so too, but maybe El Fuerte will be like Alex?

[Atb_555]

Wait, Sagat and Balrog aren't playable in the game at all, or just the version he was playing?

Most likely this. Only time will tell whether or not Sagat and Rog are playable but I think it would be silly if they werent

[COUM]

It's really nice to finally read a high-quality writeup from someone who knows what they're talking about.

Revenge supers, activated by performing the normal super input but pressing three buttons instead of one, carry too much start up to be viable for use in combos. This makes their only useful use a high risk, high reward attempt to swing the match back in your favour, such as on wake-up or if you think your opponent is sticking out a limb.

Hah, I for one think this is far sillier than if they were non-invincible but comboable. Granted they will be easy to avoid, but you'll have to play safer once your opponent gets Revenge meter, and having to change your gameplan because it was working is still dumb.

the really killer move is his EX Flying Powerbomb. Done normally, it's really easy to spot as Zangief raises his arms in the air, waits, then runs towards his opponent. The EX version isn't just faster but also super armor properties, meaning he can run through hits to grab his opponent. It can even be used as an anti-air!

Holy shit, that is gonna be awesome. Hope it doesn't get nerfed!

[YellowS4]

Communism cannot get nerfed.

Whiff SPD for meter or just do lariats.

[AzN_Skater]

I'm actually looking forward to playing Abel now. He has pseudo rekkas, which is pretty cool.

[amen]

i hope they bring back ryu's cross-up properties

[Sasmasta]

@Sasmasta, I thought so too, but maybe El Fuerte will be like Alex?
Ah, true that. Be crazy [as in cool] if they gave him some kind of charge grapple [Charge :db:, :r:+:p:]. :smile:

[DarkZero]

Nah, I just want to see Abel/El Fuerte have a Flash Chop

[drobizh]

no new moves? cmon man what the fuck. they could keep joudan kick and 1 new fuckin move for ryu. this is stupid. and why is throwing nerfed so bad.

but i do like the EX flying powerbomb. zangief is gonna be awesome eventho i don't play him

[Sasmasta]

SRK rumor mill says Fuerte might be Alex's mentor or some shit, so you never know. :lol:

[DarkZero]

^Nice

[beatsofdevil]

Crimson Viper is too smexy. Reminds me of Jolie looks wise.

[*Onslaught*]

I really hope they add something else new to SFIV. I'm not worried because it's a beta build, but that seems to be the biggest complaint so far.

[DevilJin 01]

Crimson Viper is too smexy. Reminds me of Jolie looks wise.


Actually...Ono said Jolie is who her character design is inspired by. I love me some Jolie so that'll definitely get me interested in her even more. She's definitely my favorite of the new characters so far. Right now I think the 3 people I'll be using are Blanka, Chun and C.Viper.

[Sasmasta]

I'll prolly roll with Gief, Abel and El Gallo Loco.

:rock:

[beatsofdevil]

Abel...C.Viper...hmm and if they bring them other hoes on board (Rose, Cammy, Ibuki, SAKURA!!!) I'll be happy! I got my sexy hoes and then I got my sexy Abel...yesh....:lovin:

[Mikee_Showbiz]

http://www.neoempire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3289

Good read check it out. Its the latest hands on impression by a friend I know who works for OXM.

Check you out, stealing all my credit :p

[Sasmasta]

We've found Private Ryan.

:radiostatic:

[woof]

excellent job!

[Atb_555]

Dont thank me thank the guy who wrote it.

Check you out, stealing all my credit :p

Dont worry Im not taking any credit for anything :wink:

I must admit and quite a few have already that your write up is very informative. Definately gives us (readers) a sense of what SF4 plays like.

[Daigo Jr]

Holy crap, You Go PrivateRyan.

[arstal]

The removal of dash-canceling might take some spice out, but might prevent some BS.

So far I'm liking the design decisions, the one change I'd consider making is perhaps having EXs be taken out of the regular super instead of the revenge super, but with dash-cancelling out that might not be needed.

[COUM]

The removal of dash-canceling might take some spice out, but might prevent some BS.

So far I'm liking the design decisions, the one change I'd consider making is perhaps having EXs be taken out of the regular super instead of the revenge super, but with dash-cancelling out that might not be needed.

In the current build EXes do use regular super meter.

[CptMunta]

Too slow eh? A common complaint thats got me worried. This turned alot of people off Super when it came out.

They should just add a speed select. Let the scrubs play on on turbo 1.

[Demon Dash]

Why did they remove dash canceling? I honestly don't want to play SFII and a half, which this is turning out to be for me. Imo the whole revenge parry thing doesn't cut it to make a major difference, you get beat up SFII style, go for a lucky come back, fail and lose SFII style. To me, the whole dash canceling added a new perspective to the game, actually alienating it a little bit frm SFII. But if they have indeed removed it, I'm less excited than I previously was.

[CaliLifeStyle]

They should just add a speed select. Let the scrubs play on on turbo 1.

It's probably slow on purpose. So the rookie testers can get used to it.

[basic]

Sucks to hear that Honda has no reliable anti air now. I hope Capcom works them back in.

[woof]

Why did they remove dash canceling? I honestly don't want to play SFII and a half, which this is turning out to be for me. Imo the whole revenge parry thing doesn't cut it to make a major difference, you get beat up SFII style, go for a lucky come back, fail and lose SFII style. To me, the whole dash canceling added a new perspective to the game, actually alienating it a little bit frm SFII. But if they have indeed removed it, I'm less excited than I previously was.
im sad they took out a terrible concept

[xero15]

Nah, I just want to see Abel/El Fuerte have a Flash Chop

thats what guile is for.

[Ryu1999]

Ryu Cr. Rh->special is back YAY!

[FullMetalRoss]

Yeah Blanka's Rainbow Ball hits on the way down again. Finally making that move able to be used. I don't know why they ever changed it.

[DarkZero]

thats what guile is for.

I don't want to see guile having a Flash Chop
(maybe you misread as Flash Kick?)

[Ultima]

Blanka has HF Vertical Ball? Blanka's gonna beast!

Currently sad at:

- Slow speed
- Throws having no range or damage. Give me one or the other PLEASE.

In addition to correcting the above, I would also hope they add:

- Longer dashes

- Dash cancelling, as in you cn cancel your regular dash with attacks.

Also, more attacks need to inflict crumple stun besides Focus Attacks and Viper's EX Thunder KNuckle. It's the only type of new stun the game has, which is a shame since it looks like they took out various types of stun (turn around stun, wall bounce, floor bounce).

[AlphaDragoon02]

I don't know how broken dash cancelling was but...wasn't that like, one of THE big features Ono was touting about the fighting system?

[KrsJin]

I'm really confused about the removal of dash canceling as well. Are we referring to dash canceling out of a saving attack to make it into a feint? Or, can you no longer dash up once you crumple the opponent? Or both, or? Or? I'm just confused lol.

I hope it was for a valid reason, I really liked the idea of that system.

[Gutter Trash]

Sucks to hear that Honda has no reliable anti air now. I hope Capcom works them back in.

Same here, they better not screw Honda. He needs to be good

[The Lone Dragon]

Screenshot 20 out of 76 on the oxm page illustrates the "moving painting" concept oh so well.

Looks amazing up close.

[Mikee_Showbiz]

I'm really confused about the removal of dash canceling as well. Are we referring to dash canceling out of a saving attack to make it into a feint? Or, can you no longer dash up once you crumple the opponent? Or both, or? Or? I'm just confused lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udl8KCiLA-8&feature=related

Watch 0:14 of the video, where Ken cancels the blocked dragon punch into a dash.

That's the dash cancelling referred to and that's what has been taken out.

You can still dash up once you've crumpled the opponent, it's not any kind of cancel though, just one move following another. I don't even think it's necessary to dash unless you're going for something really fancy, Ryu can connect with a fierce SRK after crumpling his opponent.

Another thing I forgot to mention in the preview that I did mention on NeoEmpire is fully charged Saving Attacks take about 5% of your health away as it charges, then gives you the 5% health back when you complete the Saving Attack. I had this pointed out to me while I was playing and thought it was really odd, so I tried it a few more times afterwards and that's definitely how it works, no mistake about it.

I'm not sure what the thought process behind this is or the exact mechanics yet because I only discovered that trait really late in the day (do you get health back if you whiff the move? Can you use it if you have less than 5% health left?). I think the idea is that if you get hit out of your Saving Attack, you don't get that health back, making them slightly more risky than they would have been otherwise. Something else to ponder, I suppose.

[terracotta]

man.. Guile was raped from the sounds of it.

does anyone know if dashes are fast enough for dash > throw ala 3S?

[margalis]

Wow that sounds dumb.

The saving attack concept seems screwy. Sounds like the best use is against a downed opponent. I imagine against some chars this will be a really good strategy and against some useless, but either way I don't see how that fits into "saving" anything. It sounds like the original idea was a riff on KOF dodging (where you get armor instead of dodging) but it doesn't appear to be working out that way.

Also what prevents you from doing a saving attack against jump-ins? Just too slow to power it up enough to get armor? (Since all jumpins are one hit)

[Mikee_Showbiz]

terracota - dash > throw doesn't really work because not only are the dashes too slow, they don't cover an awful lot of ground either. There's not really that much difference between walking and dashing. Dash > SPD works with Zangief to a certain extent but only because jab SPD has a fair bit of range.

margalis - Saving Attack is too slow to be used as an anti-air. It's a weird fit for the game at the moment, it doesn't really work anywhere bar wake up situations, which makes it feel gimmicky. It almost feels like a new addition for the sake of it and in all honesty, SFIV plays fine without it. I expect Capcom will tweak it some more but I'm not really sure what changes they can make...

[KrsJin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udl8KCiLA-8&feature=related

Watch 0:14 of the video, where Ken cancels the blocked dragon punch into a dash.

That's the dash cancelling referred to and that's what has been taken out.



Great man, thanks for that response. Makse sense now.

[terracotta]

terracota - dash > throw doesn't really work because not only are the dashes too slow, they don't cover an awful lot of ground either. There's not really that much difference between walking and dashing. Dash > SPD works with Zangief to a certain extent but only because jab SPD has a fair bit of range.

i was just thinking out loud but having questions actually answered is a treat. i think a lot of us were aching for that level of depth in a review, so thanks for writing that up.

i have another question: how's Ken's poking game? you mentioned footsies/poking was toned down in general, so i was wondering how shotos played now.. as in, is there a lot of jumping in, or can you still push a guy into the corner with the low forward/stand roundhouse/EX hadoken ground-based approach?

[goodm0urning]

Love the picture with C. Viper electrocuting Ken (?) and making his skeleton show. That's classic.

Hopefully they spend enough time tweaking the balance to give characters like Honda and Guile a fair shot.

It looks like they've gone over the old stuff and tried to select the best bits from each of the previous games--the general mechanics of ST, some moves from 3S, Blanka's vertical ball from HF, and so forth.

The game is looking amazing. I know a lot of fighters and other titles have attempted a hand-drawn look with 3D graphics previously, but this is on a whole other level.

[Helter Skelter]

The game looks great aesthetically, and I'm glad that new characters are trickling in.
However, I really think this game needs a few new gimmicks, the game seem shallow now that they removied Dash Cancelling.
I also hope they decide to give each old character a new special move or something.

[Mikee_Showbiz]

i have another question: how's Ken's poking game? you mentioned footsies/poking was toned down in general, so i was wondering how shotos played now.. as in, is there a lot of jumping in, or can you still push a guy into the corner with the low forward/stand roundhouse/EX hadoken ground-based approach?

It's kinda different. Standing roundhouse is decent enough but most of the cast have pokes with more range (Abel's sweep, Blanka's sweep, Zangief's anything, etc). Similarly, crouching medium kick doesn't seem to be quite as good as in 3S, it was getting beaten out a lot which surprised me. However, going for cross-up MK seems to be more viable because of the faster jumping speed and his EX air hurricane kick is a nice way of getting in, so Ken doesn't have too much trouble getting close. EX Hadoken I didn't play around with too much because his super does so much damage, it seemed better to hang onto the meter for that instead.

[COUM]

margalis - Saving Attack is too slow to be used as an anti-air. It's a weird fit for the game at the moment, it doesn't really work anywhere bar wake up situations, which makes it feel gimmicky. It almost feels like a new addition for the sake of it and in all honesty, SFIV plays fine without it. I expect Capcom will tweak it some more but I'm not really sure what changes they can make...

In a video from the Japanese loke tests I've seen a guy use the autoguard on the Saving Attack to block a fireball, then dash to cancel before they actual attack comes out. Seems like it might be better than jumping over them, although with the tiny jump arcs in SF4 maybe this would actually be even more obvious. Thoughts?

[Mikee_Showbiz]

In a video from the Japanese loke tests I've seen a guy use the autoguard on the Saving Attack to block a fireball, then dash to cancel before they actual attack comes out. Seems like it might be better than jumping over them, although with the tiny jump arcs in SF4 maybe this would actually be even more obvious. Thoughts?

Sounds like a viable tactic, sure. But that does make me wonder... I've definitely played a newer build of the game since the loke tests, which is highlighted by the dash cancelling being removed, so maybe seeing that tactic is why Capcom has implemented this minor health deduction + recharge attribute for Saving Attacks? Again, I don't know -exactly- how the health recharge works but it could be that maybe that health doesn't recharge if you absorb a hit during your Saving Attack.

It's also worth pointing out SFIV has a really skewed emphasis on anti-airs at the moment. As in, anti-air specials are good but anti-air normals (Guile's crouching fierce/forward/strong, Zangief's crouching medium or whatever) don't seem to work well at all. They often traded with the jump-in attack, so it could be that Capcom is making the game jump friendly to make it more accessible?

[Spire]

The game looks great aesthetically, and I'm glad that new characters are trickling in.
However, I really think this game needs a few new gimmicks, the game seem shallow now that they removied Dash Cancelling.
I also hope they decide to give each old character a new special move or something.

Agreed with this. HD Remix is shaping up to be more original and innovative than SF4 at the moment.

[Slayzz]

Agreed with this. HD Remix is shaping up to be more original and innovative than SF4 at the moment.

How is SF2HD more original and innovative?

[AlphaDragoon02]

The game looks great aesthetically, and I'm glad that new characters are trickling in.
However, I really think this game needs a few new gimmicks, the game seem shallow now that they removied Dash Cancelling.
I also hope they decide to give each old character a new special move or something.

I hope Ryu gets his Joudan kick from 3S back before the game's done. Not likely, but I'm keeping hope alive. :sad:

[Spire]

How is SF2HD more original and innovative?

I see Sirlin talking about putting twists on classic characters. Exactly what Helter said, he's giving old characters new special moves, in addition to having to recreate SSF2T. Ono seems to be trying the same, but his efforts hardly stray far from the tree. Removing dash canceling was one more SF4 feature that seperated it from the pack. I hope it's only temporary or they've something else in store. Otherwise, Capcom is putting out 2 new iterations of SF2 simultaneously.

[Jimmy Bones]

I hope Ryu gets his Joudan kick from 3S back before the game's done. Not likely, but I'm keeping hope alive. :sad:

Why not?
That kick takes a lot of damage too.

[Kataklysmic]

Sounds like a viable tactic, sure. But that does make me wonder... I've definitely played a newer build of the game since the loke tests, which is highlighted by the dash cancelling being removed, so maybe seeing that tactic is why Capcom has implemented this minor health deduction + recharge attribute for Saving Attacks? Again, I don't know -exactly- how the health recharge works but it could be that maybe that health doesn't recharge if you absorb a hit during your Saving Attack.

It's also worth pointing out SFIV has a really skewed emphasis on anti-airs at the moment. As in, anti-air specials are good but anti-air normals (Guile's crouching fierce/forward/strong, Zangief's crouching medium or whatever) don't seem to work well at all. They often traded with the jump-in attack, so it could be that Capcom is making the game jump friendly to make it more accessible?

SF2's anti-air normals were pretty good, so they'd have to make improvements for that sometime. I don't think anybody would want a game that encouraged jumping a lot more, not even for beginners.

Did you make any comments to them about this?

[mcginnis]

I hope Gief is actually above mid tier in this game. I mean I wouldn't play him but I like fighting against him.

[margalis]

The losing health thing on saving attacks sound bizzare.

If I were them I'd make them a cross between alpha-counters and Tekken-style reversals. Do the motion, go into a little reversal stance, then if you are hit while in that stance you automatically do a pretty good attack. Maybe make it so you stay in that reversal stance as long as you keep the buttons held down, and a little bit of recovery to the stance ending.

Sounds like a fixed parry/AC to me and it wouldn't need to require any meter.

[clue2025]

This link should be somewhere in a stickied thread in order by date or at least towards the top so people can stop making threads and just read the articles. That way they can see the time progression, changes, and maybe some cliffs on the articles, changes, etc etc.