removal of dash cancelling wth?!!

[Project]

Well in the latest review of the newest build by private ryan which was an awesome review btw, he states that dash cancelling was removed from the game. This for me is devastating news. For those not familiar dash cancelling is the new feature Ono was using as a strong selling point for sf4.

Ono stated that dash cancelling would be a defining feature that would open lots of offensive depth to the game. Now without it all the arguments of this being a ssf2t rehash are starting to have a lot of merit.

Usually when something goes into beta testing its just to iron out some kinks and the final build is not to far off. As it stands sf4 does not appear to be a good game. You guys can flame me, but the truth is still the truth. Its not that I dont want to play the game cause I do I just want the game to be the game we all waited so long to play.

From everything private ryan says, without dash cancelling this game is horribly slow, has bad combo mechanics, limited defensive capabilities for fighters, and horrible movement.

[Alternate275]

I'm not here to agree or disagree, but it's still hard to say until we see the final product. We just speculate disappointing results because some ague that Capcom already made bad decisions. And the mass naturally have mixed feelings about the game. But this is nonetheless, interesting news, for me, a bit mind boggling =/

[SiLLiEMutAfuKA]

It's slow now without dash canceling?

It's gonna be added for the "Turbo" version, duh.

[Alternate275]

It's slow now without dash canceling?

It's gonna be added for the "Turbo" version, duh.

Wow, I was completely unaware that there was a turbo version =P

[Luigi-Bo 87]

Maybe they'll try and add something like roman cancelling in GG??? Maybe like instead of dash cancelling, you can use one segment of your revenge gauge to cancel a move's recovery??? Just a thought.

[Mechanica]

Did you ever play SvC: Chaos? :bluu:

[Luigi-Bo 87]

Nope. Why?:bluu:

[Alternate275]

SvC: Chaos had a Max Cancel type thing. When your meter reached Maximum, this permitted certain attacks to be canceled into other attacks.

[Tiberious]

That's Maximum mode in a nutshell.

Fill your Super bar, get a timed, anything-goes mode. Free Supers, canceling any normal anytime, even canceling Specials, if I recall correctly.

When it ends, you go back to Level 2.

[Luigi-Bo 87]

Like in KOF 2k2?

[Alternate275]

Also, you could also spend some of your super meter on dashing out of a block stun. However, that didn't require a max bar. As I do recall though, SvC:Chaos allowed you to perform certain actions during a dash, namely and commonly a jump. Not sure if this is what Mechanica was implying though

EDIT: Yeah, somewhat similarly to KOF2K2.

[Luigi-Bo 87]

Sounds broken to me.

[BadMojo]

The testers must have found it game breaking to warrant its removal. I wouldn't be surprised if dash canceling combos were doing 70% damage. Only thing is there isn't a video of someone performing it, or else we'd have a thread like the Ken Ultra Video but titled "Video of dash canceling combos" followed by 400+ posts of people complaining that it does too much damage.

[Alternate275]

Give or take, some argue that it is. Not my concern though.
To be fair though, I will say the game isn't known for credible gameplay, since
it lacked consistency and many other things. It was glitchy and the controls weren't
all that responsive either. Dunno if the feature was broken, but it's generally agreed
that the game itself, was more broken. Zero, Geese, and O.Iori were definitely gods of
SvC Chaos without any second thoughts =P

[ChromeX]

but the truth is still the truth.
From everything private ryan says, without dash cancelling this game is horribly slow, has bad combo mechanics, limited defensive capabilities for fighters, and horrible movement.

rofl too funny it goes from a decent game, im assuming ¿in your eyes?, to that slow chunky and crappy and "horrible movement" w\e the hell that means cus of one less options eh? hope im not alone finding that kinda funny.....especially in a game you havent played.

edit : heh i was gunna say b4 i get slammed =x anyhow i read the review and the dude dont sound pro imo. they shoulda sent ppl like nitto pyrolee smoothcat w\e not a reporter who happens to play a little

[Alternate275]

I'll admit, Project does give off the impression that he's ultimately favoring the dash cancel feature and making some judgments from the loss of it. But it also seems he's speaking on behalf of his source. So... It's not like there isn't anything to what he says. He could have pointed out something that could potentially be a big concern about the game.

[terracotta]

dash cancelling was a selling point? lol

wakeup EX DP > dash cancel sounded kinda broken actually.. until i realized dashes were slow as crap, then it just sounded like Roman Cancelling.

[power333]

Many people criticize SF4 because it may be to much like ST. So the game will suck. I guess ST sucks then...

I hope it's very different from ST, but I just find it ironic that many players think of ST as one of the best games ever and then just the idea of having a new and better looking ST make them change their minds 180 degrees.

[Helter Skelter]

edit : heh i was gunna say b4 i get slammed =x anyhow i read the review and the dude dont sound pro imo. they shoulda sent ppl like nitto pyrolee smoothcat w\e not a reporter who happens to play a little

I have to jump in and personally tell you to shut the fuck up.

Private Ryan isn't a scrub and the preview he gave was also for people who don't fully understand how Street Fighter works.
Gaming magazine editiors don't jump on a forum or YouTube, contact a top level player, give them a pen and a pad and tell them to "Go to work".

I've never seen your tournament results or match videos.
Private Ryan has played Ryan Hart and The Chef and numerous other top players in the UK.

[UltraDavid]

If dash canceling is gone or tweaked, it's because the feedback from the loc testers was that it was too broken, and the theory fighter we've been playing on SRK corroborates that. I'm fine with broken things getting removed.

[gridman]

that the game itself, was more broken. Zero, Geese, and O.Iori were definitely gods of
SvC Chaos without any second thoughts =P

Close ;) . Zero and geese were the only 2 gods. O.iori is fast...thats about it. Nothing special. Goenitz is 10x better than o.iori and terry and evil ken are too. Dont want to get in argument about it but ive played that game in and out cause its so fun (and this is the wrong thread ;) )

Dash cancelling would not be good. I did not even think about how broken it was in SvC. Guile would do like c.lk (blocked) terry dashes through and punishes with st.c super

Probably for the best. Im not complaining

[Sasmasta]

It's all good.

BURGAH KANG!

[Miz]

The testers must have found it game breaking to warrant its removal. I wouldn't be surprised if dash canceling combos were doing 70% damage. Only thing is there isn't a video of someone performing it, or else we'd have a thread like the Ken Ultra Video but titled "Video of dash canceling combos" followed by 400+ posts of people complaining that it does too much damage.

i couldn't find any dash canceling in any video besides this one http://youtube.com/watch?v=wklXNeJyBbE

0:25

and that was waaay back. ryu blocks it too, so it isn't much of an example

anyone know of other vids?

[CaliLifeStyle]

Is dash canceling completely out? Or is just forward dash canceling out?

[JAMSMASTERP]

I dont think it matters with ex's, i just hope you can still dash after a savng strike. I imagine you can.

[Gutter Trash]

dash canceling would benefit Ryu, Ken, C.Viper and Sagat.
but how can Blanka use dash canceling?

I want someone right nowto explain to me how in the blue hell can Blanka benefit from dash canceling?

there, some characters would awesomely take full advantage while others would completely not

[Nokato]

dash canceling would benefit Ryu, Ken, C.Viper and Sagat.
but how can Blanka use dash canceling?

I want someone right nowto explain to me how in the blue hell can Blanka benefit from dash canceling?

there, some characters would awesomely take full advantage while others would completely not

Well, it wouldn't be combos but more of positioning tricks, maybe a blocked meaty EX Electricity into dash (if it corpse hops) hop to the other side while holding opposite charge for a either a combo op of, Crouching Short x2, Stand Jab into Blanka ball or a throw mix up maybe. I don't really know since I haven't played it but theoretically thats something that "could" be done.

Edit: his dash may not corpse hop so you probably would have to do a really quick KKK hop to do what I'm hypothesizing.

[Gutter Trash]

that stuff my seem okay, but compared to the damage combo potential of Ken, it does not compare.

[MAGUS1234]

Well not everybody would benefit from things equally, some characters supers are gonna suck, while their normals and specials may excel. Maybe blanka can Elec xx dash, into electricity again?

[Mikee_Showbiz]

Is dash canceling completely out? Or is just forward dash canceling out?

Completely out. I asked Capcom if dash cancelling was still in because I wasn't getting any kind of dash cancel to work and they told me it has been removed.

[Spire]

Completely out. I asked Capcom if dash cancelling was still in because I wasn't getting any kind of dash cancel to work and they told me it has been removed.

Disappointing. I hope they have something to replace it with. I don't think Saving Strikes is enough of a new feature to sell me (and maybe others) personally on the game. That EGM exclusive did spend a whole section talking about dash cancels. It's weird that they would just gut a sizeable feature like this pretty far into dev, isn't it?

[Jinrai]

It's not that shocking. Street Fighter Alpha 2 had chain combos for every character up until release, when only Guy and Gen kept them.

Hopefully dashes will be much quicker to compensate, as well as selectable speeds in the arcade and console versions. In the latter case, we can determine a faster speed to be the standard, as Turbo 3 was in ST.

[Mikee_Showbiz]

Disappointing. I hope they have something to replace it with. I don't think Saving Strikes is enough of a new feature to sell me (and maybe others) personally on the game. That EGM exclusive did spend a whole section talking about dash cancels. It's weird that they would just gut a sizeable feature like this pretty far into dev, isn't it?

Unusual but not unheard of either.

To give a recent example, Army Of Two was delayed because they wanted to change a few features around with that and that was a month away from release. Given Street Fighter relies on balance a lot more than that game does AND is burdened with a lot of expectation, I'm not really surprised there are drastic changes being made here and there.

I just wanna go back to the OP a second...

From everything private ryan says, without dash cancelling this game is horribly slow, has bad combo mechanics, limited defensive capabilities for fighters, and horrible movement.

The game feels slow at the moment, yeah, but not because dash cancelling isn't there - it's more to do with the overall speed of the game and the general lack of options compared to recent fighting games (ie: no parrying, rolling, low jump, etc), which means there's more standing off, figuring out how to get close to your opponent. Kinda like a slower ST. Dash cancelling wouldn't have changed that because you would have had to get close to use it effectively anyway, I presume.

And it's only some characters who have had their defensive options crippled. Again, talking to Capcom they said that E.Honda's headbutt was previously an awesome anti-air. It's been toned down now, so his headbutt doesn't work effectively as an anti-air and neither does standing fierce but I'm guessing it's something Capcom is playing around with and tweaking, especially as E.Honda has already gone through some big changes by the sound of things.

[CaliLifeStyle]

I wonder if the SF4 team are feeling pressure from STHD.

[Chachi]

That doesn't sound very romantic.

[Project]

sry if I confused some by my statement Im not saying the game is slow because of dash cancelling Im saying that in addition to dash cancelling being remove the reviewer sited other problems such as how slow the game was, the lack of defensive opitions and how movement was not really good. In particular how it was more effective to walk than dash.

Thats a problem for me walking should never be better than dash in a fighting game. Also It doesnt take an elite player to do cpx2 to flash kick. And the review mentioned incidents of it being difficult to transition from normals to specials with some people. Thats a problem to me. Also others on the forums have vouched for private ryan as a player so Im affording him some creditability when referrencing some of the things he speaks on. As far as defensive options the reviewer states that anti air normals traded with jump ins.

Now when I said that the game is seeming more like a rehash of super turbo its not a knock on ST. ST was a great game nearly 20 years ago and further more theres is already a remake of that game coming out, so there is absolutely no need to structure sf4 to so closely resembly that game. Its not just his opinion Im basing that on almost everyone who has had the chance to test the game walks away saying the samething it looks an awful lot like a graphical update to super turbo.

I mean just ask yourself this if this game did not have the sf4 title and the iconic characters, would you not be concerned about the direction its taking at this point. Overall I was just stating some concerns that I had with the game thus far. I could be wrong they could have something planned that will outshine anything in the pass, I hope they do.

[dbycrash]

from what i have seen i will not believe that dash cancelling is officially *out*... maybe just tuned... as something that progressive in an engine will not be completely scraped.

[ChromeX]

I have to jump in and personally tell you to shut the fuck up.

Private Ryan isn't a scrub and the preview he gave was also for people who don't fully understand how Street Fighter works.
Gaming magazine editiors don't jump on a forum or YouTube, contact a top level player, give them a pen and a pad and tell them to "Go to work".

I've never seen your tournament results or match videos.
Private Ryan has played Ryan Hart and The Chef and numerous other top players in the UK.

a america loses to japan b europe loses to america c fuck you too buddy

[Demon Dash]

I too am a little gutted it's gone. Personally I don't think it needed removing entirely, I mean it could have easilly been balanced. All you would have had to do was make it one dash cancel per combo, simple. MvC2 done it with it's assists, once you use it in a combo, the command simply doesn't work any more untill the combo counter resets. It would have stopped rediculous combos and you could still use multiple dash cancels during blocking, keeping it's mix-up potential.

Maybe they made two grooves out of the system? :confused:

[power333]

a america loses to japan b europe loses to america c fuck you too buddy

WTF are you talking about? Is your name America now? The guy's point is that Ryan Heart beats you at every game known to man and, asides from that, you have no idea who will beat who at SFIV. We only know that Chromex won't be winning any tourneys.

And, as for your previous comment , they definitely should not give much to weight for 3S player's opinions. 3S lost so much money that it almost killed the brand for good. Apparently, What 3S players like, the world dislikes. It would be nice to have a SF game who can outsell MK for once.

[Mechanica]

Also, you could also spend some of your super meter on dashing out of a block stun. However, that didn't require a max bar. As I do recall though, SvC:Chaos allowed you to perform certain actions during a dash, namely and commonly a jump. Not sure if this is what Mechanica was implying though

That's what I was getting at. A fully invincible dash, out of block stun. It was broke as fuck. Tessa/Tabasa got a free umm... whatever they called the ultimate supers where you had to have low life. You just dash cancel into hcb hcb punch and it's a command grab on the first frame of recovery after invincibility. Dash canceling being removed is good in my eyes. I know that their version of it wasn't quite as broken, but I still firmly believe players would find a way to abuse it in such a frustrating way that I would be deterred by high level play. It always happens if there's any potential for it. It's bad enough we find game-breaking things like roll cancel, and karacancels and shit.

[Demon Dash]

Dash canceling being removed is good in my eyes. I know that their version of it wasn't quite as broken, but I still firmly believe players would find a way to abuse it in such a frustrating way that I would be deterred by high level play. It always happens if there's any potential for it. It's bad enough we find game-breaking things like roll cancel, and karacancels and shit.
In the state it was in, yes. But you could easilly work around it. Like I mentioned, one dash cancel per combo wouldn't be so bad, all you would have to do is make stocks limited. Obviously at the start, you can't use either a dash cancel or a saving attack, which kind of means you have to think carefully about what you use later on and what you can do with character you're fighting against.

If you're getting beat up, you have no super meter so even if you used a stock on a dash cancel you would do a fair ammount of damage for what you've used, without going over kill with the added damage of a super. Also you can't combo an Ultra (so far) either. Again, if you're on the offensive, you have no saving meter so you don't have the advantage of either. This in my eyes would be pretty fair, the only decision from there is whether you carry over stocks from the last round. That's when damage could get scary, but I honestly don't think it would be too bad if they just worked with it a little more.

Either way we'll never know what happense till it comes out, so there's no point crying about it. But it's deffinately devastating for those who liked the idea...

[TOMA$$]

as much as i hate to say it i think capcom should probably just give up. i mean i love everything before capcom fighting jam. hell i will even play the ex+'s.

maybe if capcom actually gave a shit they would listen to the people who play these games and make them the way that they used too like anything 2000 and before.

but now since capcom wants to put this game on every system, including the wii i am sure that they will dumb this game down to the point that it is played with 1 button all while waving the remote in the air and it won't even be talked about 4 months after its release. just like CFJ.

so much for the good ol' days.

[AlphaDragoon02]

but now since capcom wants to put this game on every system, including the wii i am sure that they will dumb this game down to the point that it is played with 1 button all while waving the remote in the air and it won't even be talked about 4 months after its release. just like CFJ.

Wow.

This is an exceedingly ignorant statement.

[Demon Dash]

So how was dash canceling set up before hand? Was it dash cancel on specials and EX's only?

[AlphaMei]

anyhow i read the review and the dude dont sound pro imo. they shoulda sent ppl like nitto pyrolee smoothcat w\e not a reporter who happens to play a little

Doesn't....Sound pro? You are an idiot, im sorry but that has to be the most uneducated thing i'v read on this forum in a long time. Your not exactly going to write an article, aimed at a wider range of the gaming audience, go into the raw technical aspects of the game and attempt to "sound pro". Private Ryan has nuff respect in the UK then you will probably ever have in your lifetime. Come now. He's posting the article from the OXM website, surely that says enough.

[Dander]

If dash canceling is gone or tweaked, it's because the feedback from the loc testers was that it was too broken, and the theory fighter we've been playing on SRK corroborates that. I'm fine with broken things getting removed.

you're also fine with taking a penis in the ass. I completely disagree with anything you say from now on.

[Project]

^
yep you could cancel an ex into a super or another special. There is no worries about brokenness cause you couldnt cancel it into ultras. At current there is no way to combo ultras which should eliminate the potential for incredible brokenness. I dont see the point in them taking it out.

[ChromeX]

lol apparently my standards are too high

[Demon Dash]

The guy plays Twelve, beat my ass, nuff said...

[clue2025]

lol apparently my standards are too high

Uh... who are you again? :confused: The article was for a major website that IIRC catered to both the casual and hardcore gamer. Your name wasn't on it, I haven't seen your name anywhere else on the internet nor have I heard your name from videos or any tourney documentation. And the Jpn vs USA vs UK statement was stupid as hell.

I think that the statement "They should throw out everything from 3s" is an ignorant one just like "ST sucks" or "3s sucks." There are good things in 3s just like there are good things in ST and Alpha. You know what, a better comparison would be you don't throw out a character you use because they have moves, specials, or supers that you never use.

As for the direction of this game, do you think Ono is trying to be like other fighting games (dash cancelling = roman cancelling?) that are popular along with trying to get the old SF feeling back? The removal of this might've been a decision based on how similar the feature was to other games and if it seemed right to be in a SF game according to him.

I also wonder if they have any idea that ST:HD Remix is being made. I mean, I know David Sirlin is working on it but I haven't read the entire article on it. I don't know if its Capcom America or Japan doing it and if it is Capcom America, is Capcom Japan gonna get it or do they even want it.

[Ultima]

Having removed dash cancelling of EX moves (and Focus Attacks?), what they should do now is add real dash canceling - i.e. the ability to cancel your dash (at least your front dash) with any attack. They should also increase the range and speed of the dashes, at least for faster characters like CHun-li.

[Doc Holliday]

This blows. This is looking more and more like a slo-mo, barebones, shitfest than anything. And I hate to say that because I was so pumped about this game. No dash cancelling really kills it. They could've made it non-broke by putting meter limits, number of use limits or scaling in. I just don't understand why it had to be taken out completely.

And non-cancellable ultras? I understand the reason behind it after seeing Ken's but just scale that down then. It's going to be hard to connect them by throwing them out randomly and they're blockable. Then again, that's my 3S system side talking. I'm used to the cancellable supers.

I don't even know what to say about the focus attacks now but I'm pretty sure that you're going to eat the 5% if you get hit out of it which I don't like.

Normal anti-airs are non-existant? You trade hits?

Game's slower than previous builds too?



I don't know, after today's review, I'm 180 on this game now. There's a lot NOT to like about it now for me. I'm hoping that they throw in one or two other things to replace the loss of DCing.

[tharimrattler]

I didn't read the whole thread, but if they removed it it is probably for the best. It had broken potential already, someone probably figured it out.

Give the game a chance! Just because they take this out doesn't mean it sucks. It will take some time after the game comes out until most shit is figured out.

Have patience! Give the game a chance! Judge it after you break down all the game mechanics and characters yourself! Not based on what xxx says about xxx.

[dbycrash]

dash-cancelling sounded very mvc2-ish to me.... and i liked that.... but... RIP.

[crazydiamond]

They could have just temporarily removed it to test the strengths/weaknesses of the games other features. In case something was overlooked. They may well put it back in at a later stage if this is the case.

[bokchoy]

I loved Roman Cancels in GG but dash-cancelling is kinda...meh. Seems like Capcom wants to take that Roman Cancel idea without blatantly ripping it off.

Charge characters would have a harder time being creative with dash-cancelling, since you can't dash cancel into another charge move.

Anyway, as lame as I thought dash-cancelling was, I hope that taking it out means that they'll replace it with something better.

[-D-]

RIP Dash Canceling. I agree that this feature could have been TOTALLY OVERUSED at high skilled game and would be claimed to death! Noone wants to see Dash Canceling to be used 100 times a round!!!

[s-kill]

Wow, a lot of complaining based on what looks like a 100% wrong speculation.

I'm not sure what you're calling "dash canceling" or where the Private Ryan review is supposed to be, but all that stuff still seems to work when I do it.

Mysteries!

Back to your regularly scheduled grumping now...

xo,
Seth

[Demon Dash]

Wow, a lot of complaining based on what looks like a 100% wrong speculation.

I'm not sure what you're calling "dash canceling" or where the Private Ryan review is supposed to be, but all that stuff still seems to work when I do it.

Mysteries!

Back to your regularly scheduled grumping now...

xo,
Seth
Would you like to elaborate on your claim?

[Kamui]

I'm not sure there's anything to elaborate on, he's saying Dash Canceling is still in.

Would you like to elaborate on your claim?

[goodm0urning]

Really, if you want the inside scoop on a project, who's word do you trust? Some random reviewer, or someone who's actually... you know, an insider?

[Hedgeshot]

Really, if you want the inside scoop on a project, who's word do you trust? Some random reviewer, or someone who's actually... you know, an insider?

Really, if you want the inside scoop on a project, whose word do you trust? Some random "insider", or someone whose, you know, an actual game reviewer. :rolleyes:

See, I can imply credibility too. If they both have actually played the game, there is a good chance they are both playing different builds. One with dash canceling, and one with out.

[goodm0urning]

Really, if you want the inside scoop on a project, whose word do you trust? Some random "insider", or someone whose, you know, an actual game reviewer. :rolleyes:

See, I can imply credibility too. If they both have actually played the game, there is a good chance they are both playing different builds. One with dash canceling, and one with out.Just stop. You are out of your element.

[Demon Dash]

What about the SFIV website, is there anything about dash canceling on there? Because I can't see anything...

[goodm0urning]

What about the SFIV website, is there anything about dash canceling on there? Because I can't see anything...What about the guy who actually works for Capcom, their own liaison to us vis a vis the SFIV project, coming into this thread and giving you the scoop himself? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and there is no reason to disbelieve someone who actually has authority on this topic in favor of somebody who is literally some random guy on the Internet. Think about what you are saying.

[shinblanka]

The testers must have found it game breaking to warrant its removal. I wouldn't be surprised if dash canceling combos were doing 70% damage. Only thing is there isn't a video of someone performing it, or else we'd have a thread like the Ken Ultra Video but titled "Video of dash canceling combos" followed by 400+ posts of people complaining that it does too much damage.


This is what I was trying to tell people that was worried about ultra's doing 50% damage when I though EX combo's into the dash was going to be the way to play the game in high levels. I thought when everyone figured the game out that waiting to hit that 1 super is going to hurt you in high levels of sf4. It was going to be all about ex fb's for ken>>into the dash>>into a Fb>> dash into a stand FP into the lowforward level 1 super! I guesseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I was correct in my theory fighter.

[Projectjustice]

SF4 is turning into a mess. Just cancel it Capcom.

[Dark Symphony]

Many people criticize SF4 because it may be to much like ST. So the game will suck. I guess ST sucks then...

I hope it's very different from ST, but I just find it ironic that many players think of ST as one of the best games ever and then just the idea of having a new and better looking ST make them change their minds 180 degrees.


Ever hear of the phrase "too much of a good thing?"

If people want to play ST, they can play ST. If this game = ST part 2 then one game becomes obsolete and we end up just displacing a game and the effort on SF4 seems wasted and accomplishes nothing.

It's like getting 2 gifts and they're both the same thing .

[osek206]

SF4 is turning into a mess. Just cancel it Capcom.

Spoken like a true clown:rofl:, damn game isn't even done.

[SSJGouKi]

Many people criticize SF4 because it may be to much like ST. So the game will suck. I guess ST sucks then...

I hope it's very different from ST, but I just find it ironic that many players think of ST as one of the best games ever and then just the idea of having a new and better looking ST make them change their minds 180 degrees.

ST can be considered a great game but at the same time insanely boring at times... some of ST matches are horrendous Gradius-type fireball matches. If its not that its a throwing match one after another. We don't need another ST game, we already have it! ITS CALLED SUPER STREET FIGHTER 2 TURBO!


It's gonna be added for the "Turbo" version, duh.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ChromeX]

you know the speed of the game hasnt been determined yet they did state they were still messin with it.....

[Dark Symphony]

But either way, this topic is moot. A guy who has access to the game says it's still in.

No opinions on the game should be changed by this topic.

For those who don't know... s-kill works for Capcom. He wins the credibility war.

I've already gotten over all my "expectations" and i'm now just going to play the game. A_Rival was skeptical and then he played it and thought it was good to go, so i'm confident this game will be worth investing time into.

[Alternate275]

Everything considered, a lot of the speculation is only theory, provided the team can make changes at any given moment until the game is near complete.

[No defence]

Sf4 is a failure period.....


ASK YOURSELF THIS.

Would I rather play Superturbo, or 3s over............ Streetfighter 4?.........:confused:


IF you Say......... "Yeah I would"........... then the game is a failure.....:shake:

What was capcom thinking........:amazed:

The game aint better than SSF2T, SF ZERO 2/3, SF3 Third strike, and CVS2<<< then dont even think to release another StreetFighter. Did these niggas even play those games^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:wtf:

[Kamui]

Very good argument. A game that you haven't even played yet is a failure and definitely worse than older games. Bravo good sir, bravo.

Sf4 is a failure period.....
ASK YOURSELF THIS.

Would I rather play Superturbo, or 3s over............ Streetfighter 4?.........:confused:

IF you Say......... "Yeah I would"........... then the game is a failure.....:shake:

What was capcom thinking........:amazed:

The game aint better than SSF2T, SF ZERO 2/3, SF3 Third strike, and CVS2<<< then dont even think to release another StreetFighter. Did these niggas even play those games^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:wtf:

[arstal]

It seems like you have a choice- dash cancelling or an ultra?

Combo mavens would be able to use the dash cancels to gain more damage on combos, while priority-smart players would be able to use the ultras for huge damage and round stealing.

If it's like this, and that's what it sounds like, AND the dash-combos don't do massively more damage then regular combos, then it's good.

I do think EX moves should come from the regular meter not the revenge meter though.

[Projectjustice]

Spoken like a true clown:rofl:, damn game isn't even done.

More like a disgruntled gamer.:arazz:

[AlphaDragoon02]

Nice to hear confirmation that they didn't axe it. I thought that was kinda weird, being one of the big key features Ono touted about the fighting and all.

[Kataklysmic]

It seems like you have a choice- dash cancelling or an ultra?

Combo mavens would be able to use the dash cancels to gain more damage on combos, while priority-smart players would be able to use the ultras for huge damage and round stealing.

If it's like this, and that's what it sounds like, AND the dash-combos don't do massively more damage then regular combos, then it's good.

I do think EX moves should come from the regular meter not the revenge meter though.

I like that EXes use Revenge meter. It necessitates better judgement in meter spending. Being rewarded with a super as you're winning is good enough.

[DavDz]

More like a disgruntled gamer.:arazz:

More like someone who talks out of his ass, and looks for the stupidest insignificant shit to bitch about and be nitpicky about.

Give me a fucking break.

[Gaijinblaze]

I don't agree with the notion of "it would've been so broken, good thing it's gone." This is Capcom we're talking about. If dash cancelling wasn't going to be broken, something else would've been. And if the past is any indication, whatever's broken would end up helping to define the game's identity. At this point I'd prefer a moderately broken tool that can get tuned later on rather than the removal of something that can potentially distinguish the game a bit more from... well, yeah. So I'm glad it hasn't gotten the cut.

EX moves do use super meter based on the videos I've seen.

[Projectjustice]

More like someone who talks out of his ass, and looks for the stupidest insignificant shit to bitch about and be nitpicky about.

Give me a fucking break.

You dont even know what im nitpicking. Some of you idiots are funny, defending the obvious.:rofl:

[Yurinka]

Dash canceling aren't removed. As ever, EX moves and Saving Strikes/Focus attack can be cancelled by dashing in SFIV. I think this guy was just trolling, or he was trying to cancel a super combo or ultra combo. I think this thread should be closed.

[B. Yuukai]

Every time I read a Street Fighter 4 thread, it always breaks down to some argument, but I guess that's what a discussion board is like. In regards to the opening post, Ono stated that he wanted to make the game simple for the new player but leave a few tricks in to promote high level play. EGM's preview of SF4 left an impression that dash canceling was apart of the new system besides saving strikes/revenge techniques.

IMHO, removing the proposed dash canceling and not replacing it with something equally substantial is kind of lame. Hopefully the third beta test will possibly resolve everyone's issues with dash canceling, or give us more information. Bitching and moaning should truly be reserved for the final product.

[SlothHands]

Bitching and moaning should truly be reserved for the final product.


Bitching & moaning with constructive criticism should not be reserved for the final product. We don't want a final product that is shit because no1 said anything .

I'm following two of the biggest competitive games for me atleast, Starcraft 2 and SFIV. The http://www.teamliquid.net forums for SC2 has lots of bitching and constructive criticism about game mechanics to graphics. The SRK forums are very similar except when you have any negative comments about SFIV here, you get your rep down and flamed to hell from immature cocks. Look what happened now... SC2 has changed for the better from graphics to game play mechanics for competitive play due to community feedback. I can see the same thing happening for SFIV.

[DavDz]

SF4 is turning into a mess. Just cancel it Capcom.

You dont even know what im nitpicking. Some of you idiots are funny, defending the obvious.:rofl:

Why must you always use the act stupid card. You pass yourself off as a disgruntled gamer, when really you are just coming off as someone who whines and bitches about every single thing such as "its looking like the next SF2 update" or " Bison's gonna be in it? THIS GAMES SUCKS!" When you clearly haven't played the damn game, and your complaints towards this game in general aren't even worth wiping my ass with. You just look for the lamest, most insignificant shit to complain about, that all you're basically doing is trolling with the same shit that alot of retards have said before. You are not contributing anything new or constructive, your complaints aren't worth merit, your troll posts such as " SF4 is a mess, just cancel it already" are just fucking retarded, and every thread you're in, you have degenerated into a flame fest. I mean look at the thread about Bison's pic on the capcom website with Tony The Tiger. Seriously, thread goes from Tony The Tiger jokes and other cereal related crazyness, to bitching about "SF2 3D edition" because this fucker doesn't know when to shut up and not ruin threads that aren't even gameplay related in the first place.

I really think they should add a sub forum to this Street Fighter 4 forum, or atleast redirect all the lame bitching, and trolling to one big thread, like SK did for all those lame wishlist threads. Goddamn

[Projectjustice]

Why must you always use the act stupid card. You pass yourself off as a disgruntled gamer, when really you are just coming off as someone who whines and bitches about every single thing such as "its looking like the next SF2 update" or " Bison's gonna be in it? THIS GAMES SUCKS!" When you clearly haven't played the damn game, and your complains towards this game in general aren't even worth wiping my ass with. You just look for the lamest, most insignificant shit to complain about, that all you're basically is trolling with the same shit that alot of retards have said before. You are not contributing anything new or constructive, your complaints aren't worth merit, your troll posts such as " SF4 is a mess, just cancel it already" are just fucking retarded, and every thread you're in, you have degenerated into a flame fest. I mean look at the thread about Bison's pic on the capcom website with Tony The Tiger. Seriously, thread goes from Tony The Tiger jokes and other cereal related crazyness, to bitching about "SF2 3D edition" because this fucker doesn't know when to shut up and not ruin threads that aren't even gameplay related in the first place.

I really think they should add a sub forum to this Street Fighter 4 forum, or atleast redirect all the lame bitching, and trolling to one big thread, like SK did for all those lame wishlist threads. Goddamn

That comment still doesnt say much in why Im not happy with SF4. You really dont know why Im attacking the game. You just so overly protective over the game that as soon as you see something that isnt kissing the games ass you go into retarded mode.:rofl: Please find anywhere where I said this game sucks? I have called it SF2 3D Edition but has a lot of merit behind it.

[goodm0urning]

What about the SFIV website, is there anything about dash canceling on there? Because I can't see anything...What about the guy who actually works for Capcom, their own liaison to us vis a vis the SFIV project, coming into this thread and giving you the scoop himself? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and there is no reason to disbelieve someone who actually has authority on this topic in favor of somebody who is literally some random guy on the Internet. Think about what you are saying.Does he have "Insider" printed on his face? I'm looking for information on the subject, not a jack ass responce, that actually doesn't come from you very often. "He works for Capcom" would have been fine - DDI'm sorry if I came across too harshly. There has been a lot of ignorance in this thread thus far, and it's sometimes hard to fathom that there are otherwise informed people here who don't know who S-Kill is (though it's actually quite understandable; it is a big community). After dispensing the holy justice of my biting wit upon the fools and the haters for so long, I guess I got a little carried away and became indiscriminate with my choices of target.

There are a lot of idiots in the SF4 forum, but you aren't one of them. I sincerely apologize.

[B. Yuukai]

Bitching & moaning with constructive criticism should not be reserved for the final product. We don't want a final product that is shit because no1 said anything .

I'm following two of the biggest competitive games for me atleast, Starcraft 2 and SFIV. The http://www.teamliquid.net forums for SC2 has lots of bitching and constructive criticism about game mechanics to graphics. The SRK forums are very similar except when you have any negative comments about SFIV here, you get your rep down and flamed to hell from immature cocks. Look what happened now... SC2 has changed for the better from graphics to game play mechanics for competitive play due to community feedback. I can see the same thing happening for SFIV.

Bitching & Moaning and constructive criticism are two different things. In a larger community you're going to see more of both sides of the coin. However, the street fighter community as a whole doesn't hold a candle to the nation of followers Starcraft has backing the game. One would immediately assume there's higher expectation. Wikipedia says 4.5 million copies of Starcraft were sold exclusively in South Korea. That's almost 10% of the population, and that's not including all the people who play in internet cafes on rented rigs. I'd assume there's a lot more community pressure on a game that hasn't seen an expansion/sequel in 9 years as opposed to the consistent rehashing capcom has done over the last decade.


AFAIK most of Ono's feedback will likely come from the loketests which will potentially save the game from being broken out of the box. After the product is shipped, I doubt he'll care much about the community besides the sales numbers he's already projected to be generating.

[DavDz]

That comment still doesnt say much in why Im not happy with SF4. You really dont know why Im attacking the game. You just so overly protective over the game that as soon as you see something that isnt kissing the games ass you go into retarded mode.:rofl: Please find anywhere where I said this game sucks? I have called it SF2 3D Edition but has a lot of merit behind it.

I dont go against LEGITIMATE complaints or criticisms the game has. Your complaints toward weren't legitimate and didn't have merit whatsoever. Your looking for the lamest shit to complain to about.

" SF4 seems too slow. They should speed up the gameplay a bit" Thats a legitimate concern.

"SF4 isn't shaping up. It should be cancelled" that ain't a legitimate complaint at all. It's just trolling

[Projectjustice]

I dont go against LEGITIMATE complaints or criticisms the game has. Your complaints toward weren't legitimate and didn't have merit whatsoever. Your looking for the lamest shit to complain to about.

" SF4 seems too slow. They should speed up the gameplay a bit" Thats a legitimate concern.

"SF4 isn't shaping up. It should be cancelled" that ain't a legitimate complaint at all. It's just trolling

Right, cause the game doesnt resemble SF2 at all. Like I said, we have nothing else to discuss.

[DavDz]

Right, cause the game doesnt resemble SF2 at all. Like I said, we have nothing else to discuss.

Aside from characters, stages, aesthetics, signature moves, and core gameplay that's been in every street fighter game, and ofcourse the new subsystems added such as EX moves, and Ultras, and the ability to do more than 1 super unlike ST, generally, it doesn't.

[NotGood]

Aside from characters, stages, aesthetics, signature moves, and core gameplay that's been in every street fighter game, and ofcourse the new subsystems added such as EX moves, and Ultras, and the ability to do more than 1 super unlike ST, generally, it doesn't.

Give up.....it's futile.

You won't change his dimwitted mind, and eventually you will be labeled a troll as well for going after this guy in every topic he posts in.

[DavDz]

Give up.....it's futile.

You won't change his dimwitted mind, and eventually you will be labeled a troll as well for going after this guy in every topic he posts in.

I dont go after him in every topic he posts in. He just finds a topic to randomly pollute even if it's not in anyway gameplay related like the thread about Bison's picture with Tony The Tiger on the capcom website, which went from a joke topic to a bitchfest about how it looks like a rehash of SF2 in 3D. And the threads suffer because of it.

That's what pisses me off.

[DevilJin 01]

Yeah...I almost had a feeling dash cancelling would either get toned down or get booted. Looks like it got booted. Which is fine with me as long as the game has enough mechanics to allow you to play an interesting and balanced game.

[caliagent#3]

I dont go against LEGITIMATE complaints or criticisms the game has. Your complaints toward weren't legitimate and didn't have merit whatsoever. Your looking for the lamest shit to complain to about.

" SF4 seems too slow. They should speed up the gameplay a bit" Thats a legitimate concern.

"SF4 isn't shaping up. It should be cancelled" that ain't a legitimate complaint at all. It's just trolling


He'll be happy if Makoto makes the roster.

[ChromeX]

projectjustice you should gain instant access into team hate mofo seriously bitches like a 6 year old whos parents just divorced (on ritalin obviously) talk to wall\smooth with all this anger they cant deny you.


edit. ps someone plz fix my rep after this ass is done with me

[Projectjustice]

He'll be happy if Makoto makes the roster.

Me too, I love the Mak!

ChromeX,

Its not that serious. However, unlike you im gonna just gonna accept whatever monkey poo the monkey throws at me.

[Nokato]

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4938547&postcount=36

Playtime has ended...

[archetype]

Yeah...I almost had a feeling dash cancelling would either get toned down or get booted. Looks like it got booted. Which is fine with me as long as the game has enough mechanics to allow you to play an interesting and balanced game.

Wow, a lot of complaining based on what looks like a 100% wrong speculation.

I'm not sure what you're calling "dash canceling" or where the Private Ryan review is supposed to be, but all that stuff still seems to work when I do it.

Mysteries!

Back to your regularly scheduled grumping now...

xo,
Seth

reading is fundamental

[dbycrash]

here is a case of *owned* i dropped off for this thread to enjoy ... thank you come again

[Dark Symphony]

Very good argument. A game that you haven't even played yet is a failure and definitely worse than older games. Bravo good sir, bravo.


Not just older games... Second/Third ITERATIONS of older games that had more instances to learn from past mistakes and tweak things.

I love how people don't think things through...

[Dark Symphony]

You dont even know what im nitpicking. Some of you idiots are funny, defending the obvious.:rofl:



Your name says a lot to people, probably.





Either how, I like it when people are like 'this is capcom! They always have/put broken things in their games!'

Ha... every FG has something broken or overpowered. It's almost totally unavoidable. If you take that broken thing out, something else becomes dominating (which is pretty much the definition of broken).

Seriously... I think people need to be loud about that truth.

[masher]

so DC is back or it's gone?

[EveryFlowerFlow]

^it never left.

[Dark Symphony]

A GUY who WORKS FOR CAPCOM has said that iT WAS NEVER REMOVED. As of the DATE OF THIS POST (March 22, 2008).

IT, of course is referring to DASH CANCELLING.

For all the late comers who didn't read the whole topic (which a lot of people don't and I don't blame them).


So, thus far, Dash Cancelling has been in SF4 since beta and HAS NEVER LEFT.


Now I can't wait for all the unsubstantiated idiocy that will come from this little miscommunication in the future with general scrubbery proclaiming things like "X character is overpowered! One reason is Dash Cancelling! Capcom should have removed it! They even removed it in beta because it was so broken but then they put it back because they like their games broken but they knew it was broken because they removed it that one time they really didn't but i'm saying they did because I can only argue based on falsehoods!"

[Doc Holliday]

Alright, now I'm confused. Is DC in for just the focus attacks or is it implemented for EX too? From what I read yesterday, the loctest 3 thread doesn't mention anything about being able to DC from EX but you can from focus.

[Sakura.Densetsu]

I do think EX moves should come from the regular meter not the revenge meter though.


One of the flaws in 3S is that some characters have some really good Supers which are rendered completely useless because of the need to use EX moves. there are alot of Supers which use just one long level which see no high level play, but likely would if the game either did not have EX moves or it got the stock for EX moves elsewhere.

While from a strategic angle it is nice to have to choose between EX and Supers at key moments in a match, it does limit alot of things as well. If Supers stay as they are and have just one bar, one super, one level then EX from Super is not a big deal.

But I have also seen in articles and interviews that they are not 100% set on how Supers work yet. I have seen mention of adding more supers, and possibly using the Super Art system in 3S. if they do use the Super Art system in 3S (or something similar) and have each Super have a different sized meter with different stocks, then the EX moves should use Revenge meter.

[Reno]

Alright, now I'm confused. Is DC in for just the focus attacks or is it implemented for EX too? From what I read yesterday, the loctest 3 thread doesn't mention anything about being able to DC from EX but you can from focus.

Kunai and the rest of the Japan SRKers already confirmed in the 3rd Location Test thread that you can DC from EX, so yes.