Fighting game franchise 'failed experiments'

[Taito]

If there's one recurring theme of popular fighting game series, there's one installment that goes off the beaten path and tries to introduce something new for the sake of breathing new life into the game. Subsequently gamers bitch about all the changes, the game bombs and the dev companies resort to making the sequel only slightly different than the series' last popular title, in hopes of getting their fans back. So let's talk about games that either were bad ideas from the start, or were just misunderstood and should have gotten more respect when it had the chance.

Basically I was thinking about Tekken 4 recently. It sucks that the uneven playfields didn't catch on. Nevermind the stages actually looked realistic, they made the stages as important as the character you chose, which only added depth. They just should have been implemented better, instead of making them random selections that human players aren't prepared for. T4 wasn't in perfect shape (imbalanced, Jin just ran the game, etc) but I wish they didn't scrap so much from T4 in the following sequels.

This isn't the thread for games like Soul like Calibur 1 (huge departure from Soul Edge) or Mark of the Wolves (scrapped almost all staple Fatal Fury characters), because those games were very well received. This for game mechanics or other parts of the game's design that the masses didn't get behind, forcing a particular franchise to take a step backwards..

[Helter Skelter]

Well I basically liked nearly every idea they attempted to incorporate into Tekken 4.
I loved all the Just Frames, cramped arenas, uneven ground, position switch, increase gravity, etc.
That game was turning into a really smart fighter.

Unfortunately these aforementioned ideas were not properly implemented and it became crappy.
However, if I had a choice between what Tekken 6 is now and what Tekken 4 could have been, I would definetely go for the latter.

[Yeton]

Well I basically liked nearly every idea they attempted to incorporate into Tekken 4.
I loved all the Just Frames, cramped arenas, uneven ground, position switch, increase gravity, etc.
That game was turning into a really smart fighter.

Unfortunately these aforementioned ideas were not properly implemented and it became crappy.
However, if I had a choice between what Tekken 6 is now and what Tekken 4 could have been, I would definetely go for the latter.

QFT, I thought I was the only person who felt this way about T4! Although I accept T5 as the better game, I can't help but think it's a really bland compromise between classic T3 and the flawed bastard that was T4.

[Anakron]

KoF 2001 comes to mind. I guess SNK wanted to give people alot of different options with their meter. None of them were really good. :wasted:

[COUM]

^^ SNKP didn't make KOF2001

[Dandy J]

Basically I was thinking about Tekken 4 recently.
Man I was just talkin about T4 yesterday. I agree and think that T4 had a lot of cool ideas that were just badly executed, like the pushes. It kinda sucks that Namco didn't try to make things work from T4, but it was probably a smart move on their behalf.

edit! helter skelter said basically what i just said!

[SaBrE]

weaponlord! most underrated game ever that innovated in all areas that games didnt do til a couple years later....

/me prays that james goddard can someday re-acquire the WL license and do a sequel for live arcade and psn!

[Aion]

Doa4.

[Master Bigode]

Killer Instinct 2, SF Three and Samurai Shodown III.

[chunbelievable]

Agree with Sabre... going old school here but.... good game on paper but badly accepted... Weapon Lord. The brain child of several top players in the early 90's. Damn good ideas, just never caught on.

[goukipoo]

Killer Instinct 2, SF Three and Samurai Shodown III.

Wait, are you saying that Killer Insinct 2 wasn't as good as the first, or just not as popular. Because KI2 is leaps and bounds better than KI1.

[EvilSamurai]

- Bushido Blade 2
- SF3 and parry.
- Custom Combos
- Tekken 4 had potential as previously mentioned. T5 and T6 seem ok but I still prefer TTT.
- Virtua Fighter 3
- The Last Blade series

[SaBrE]

ki2 killed the series. and was so homogenous, generic, and really bad in comparison to ki1. and is pretty universally accepted as that. and what do you now, it killed the series with the quickness!

[Mechanica]

Did the second game at least have a way to beat turtling? Overheads or throws? lol

[Demon Dash]

CFE. Imo it was a great concept, but it turned out all wrong. Had it had a groove system and a respectable (for it's time) graphic style, we could have seen an ep2. But with it having so little focused on it just made it one of the biggest failures in my mind.

[Demon Dash]

Killer Instinct 2, SF Three and Samurai Shodown III.
SFIII certainly wasn't a failed experiment, the idea of an experiment is to see what happens and any experiment that comes out with 3S in the end is a success in my eyes.

[tl613]

Did the second game at least have a way to beat turtling? Overheads or throws? lol

KI had overheads. No throws though which was annoying at times, well all the time actually.

Does the SFEX series count? Or Mortal Kombat 4?

[cain[e]]

Guilty Gear Isuka. Should have never existed.


but I jest. It got people into guilty gear proper that prolly would have never touched the game in my area.

[Episode_667]

Ryu and Fei Long's supers in SFA3 which do max damage at max range. Huh? Aside from fan service, why put something like that into a game, when you know the exact spacing necessary will almost never come up in an actual match?

[Bounce]

3/4 quarter view fighters (Powerstone), not so much as a failure but not enough depth. Square tried a different route but even then the combo system was a little off.

[Zazzarius]

;4922897']Guilty Gear Isuka. Should have never existed.


but I jest. It got people into guilty gear proper that prolly would have never touched the game in my area.

yeah it was an interesting attempt and the music was good, but the turn button (among other issues) hurt it

but we did get Aba out of it, so that's cool

[Calibur]

I read the title and T4 popped into my head. I wanted to like that game sooooo much, but I just couldnt. I thought the juggle length was perfect, and the stages and music were great, but there were so many problems.

No backdash
Jin Kazama
Slope glitches
Costume glitches
Infinites
Just Frames implemented poorly
Combot
Lack of characters (IMO)
8 framers ruling the world
Wall glitches
Jin Kazama

When T5 was released I was absolutely stoked to see an updated TTT. It wasnt until a few months later that I realized a lot of what was in T4 should have been adjusted and put back in. Now with this Bounce madness in T6 I am really nostalgic on T4. The graphics still hold up well.

[Joe Asakura]

Virtua Fighter 3/TB. Hey, at least the Japanese LOVED it and completely tore it apart in the year and some change it was at the top of their arcade charts.

I see all of those AWESOME VF3 match vids on YT, and in a way they have made me hang on to my copy of VF3TB for DC hoping that I could get something out of the game....but the single player replay value is nonexistent and the game doesn't play at all like VF4 or VF5 so I have no use for it. ;_;

[JubeiNinja69]

that EA marvel game. failed big time that their studio closed.

[centennial]

Oh god, Rise of the Imperfects was godawful. I'm so glad Marvel dissolved their partnership with EA. Ugh, I hate anything with EA on it.

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

Ryu and Fei Long's supers in SFA3 which do max damage at max range. Huh? Aside from fan service, why put something like that into a game, when you know the exact spacing necessary will almost never come up in an actual match?

Ha ha !! Funny you mention that - when Alpha Anthology came out like 2 1/2 years ago, I actually did Ryu's Shin Shoryuken in a battle, and not in training. So I guess if you REALLY practice extra hard people could pull that move off every 8 years I'm guessing! :wgrin:

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

Primal Rage

Cons: ... dinos fighting.... Weird "hold 2-3-4 buttons then do the stick input" control methods.

Pros: innovative in many ways (1994):

It was the first game to incorporate a damage % in the combo meter

It incorporated damage protection in combos after certain attacks

It had a "NO CHEESE" meter that prevented you from doing certain stuff that the programers considered cheap (and this leads me to think, those programers/testers were very VERY well informed/versed becauese PR has has NO KNOW INFINITES to date!)

It was the first to have universal OverHeads (UOH) for all characters to prevent them from turtling (Sure SSF2T had Ryus f+Mp and Fei Long f+Mk but those were the 2 only Over Heads it had)

All characters had command throws instead of regular throws

All characters could interact with their enviroments by eating the humans worshipping them during the fight

It incorporated different types of jumps heights (normal, small fast jump, super jump)

it had one of the first reversal/counter system (lots of ppl arent aware of this until explained)

An advanced combo system lets you Juggle, Chain, Link, Cancel normal attacks/specials into one massive combo (button mashing had no room hre)

New (but weird) control type to exeute special moves by holding first the buttons then doing the taps with the stick (In ver. 2.3 you could execute them as any other fighting game)

Dinos enter in Berserk mode when you got badly injured (Ok samsho was first with his Rage gauge)

It had air chains although Darkstalkers was first in that :lovin:

Also it boasted the almost "usual" stuff that fighting games used to have: 2 fatalityes per character, Easter eggs (or hidden features) and other things you could find.

More info here: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=128765&highlight=primal+rage

[katraqueyous]

Galaxy Fight, a game with no damn corners.

[Superking]

KoF 2001 comes to mind. I guess SNK wanted to give people alot of different options with their meter. None of them were really good. :wasted:

KOF2001 was made by Eolith, not SNK.

And 2002 was co-made by Eolith.

[Gutter Trash]

Virtua Fighter 3/TB. Hey, at least the Japanese LOVED it and completely tore it apart in the year and some change it was at the top of their arcade charts.

I see all of those AWESOME VF3 match vids on YT, and in a way they have made me hang on to my copy of VF3TB for DC hoping that I could get something out of the game....but the single player replay value is nonexistent and the game doesn't play at all like VF4 or VF5 so I have no use for it. ;_;

VF3 served an important purpose, it helped build a better VF4.
Replacing the VF3 Evade Button into VF4's more fluid :d: / :u: evades set VF towards the right path.

Many many new moves for old characters were added into VF3 as well.

But the uneven background.. omg.

Awaits for Taka in VF5R

[Ki Shima]

If there's one recurring theme of popular fighting game series, there's one installment that goes off the beaten path and tries to introduce something new for the sake of breathing new life into the game. Subsequently gamers bitch about all the changes, the game bombs and the dev companies resort to making the sequel only slightly different than the series' last popular title, in hopes of getting their fans back. So let's talk about games that either were bad ideas from the start, or were just misunderstood and should have gotten more respect when it had the chance.

Basically I was thinking about Tekken 4 recently. It sucks that the uneven playfields didn't catch on. Nevermind the stages actually looked realistic, they made the stages as important as the character you chose, which only added depth. They just should have been implemented better, instead of making them random selections that human players aren't prepared for. T4 wasn't in perfect shape (imbalanced, Jin just ran the game, etc) but I wish they didn't scrap so much from T4 in the following sequels.

This isn't the thread for games like Soul like Calibur 1 (huge departure from Soul Edge) or Mark of the Wolves (scrapped almost all staple Fatal Fury characters), because those games were very well received. This for game mechanics or other parts of the game's design that the masses didn't get behind, forcing a particular franchise to take a step backwards..

Well I basically liked nearly every idea they attempted to incorporate into Tekken 4.
I loved all the Just Frames, cramped arenas, uneven ground, position switch, increase gravity, etc.
That game was turning into a really smart fighter.

Unfortunately these aforementioned ideas were not properly implemented and it became crappy.
However, if I had a choice between what Tekken 6 is now and what Tekken 4 could have been, I would definetely go for the latter.

QFT, I thought I was the only person who felt this way about T4! Although I accept T5 as the better game, I can't help but think it's a really bland compromise between classic T3 and the flawed bastard that was T4.

my god i was just talking about this a second ago, tekken has suffered because of this, IMHO they could of made tekken tag 2 the type of game hardcore tekken tag players wanted, tekken 4 had so much pottential :shake:

another one is soul calibur, soul calibur 4 may be in its beta stages but the game felt like a tank compared to soul calibur 3, i personally prefer soul calibur 3 im also someone who prefers virtua fighters speedy and controlled gameplay. :mad: WHICH I THOUGHT SWORD FIGHTING ACTUALLY WAS??????????????????????????????????

it's like people get so used to playing a fighting game in a certain way and they want to keep winning with the same type of tactics, it just makes each version of the game an alteration of rock paper scissors instead of trying to break out of the old and expanding

who gives a fuck anyways this is all meant to happen :wasted:

[Ki Shima]

Ha ha !! Funny you mention that - when Alpha Anthology came out like 2 1/2 years ago, I actually did Ryu's Shin Shoryuken in a battle, and not in training. So I guess if you REALLY practice extra hard people could pull that move off every 8 years I'm guessing! :wgrin:

are you serious? it really isnt hard at all to pull off in a match if your serious about spacing, thats fei longs MAX btw, ryu's max is another story :rofl:

[CyberAkuma]

As sad as it makes me to put these games up here, I gotta put Big Bang Beat and MONSTER up here.

While these two are, otherwise, two greats among the doujin fighting game scene, the two definitely made significant boners when it came to patch updates that changed up some things that people didn't like, or otherwise did things that helped cull the hype for those games.

I sincerely hope that in both game's cases, the next big thing they do (such as MONSTER's arcade debut due for this summer), they'll make sure that there will be no such foul ups in the future.

[JackTenrac!]

KOF2001 was made by Eolith, not SNK.

And 2002 was co-made by Eolith.

The whole SNK-Playmore transition period felt off. Even after they attempted to bring back the original system, and traditions, to the game.

[Jimmy Bones]

that EA marvel game. failed big time that their studio closed.

EA and Marvel was the worst collabo....results: Marvel Nemesis = a awful game = disapointed fans = studio closing .
Capcom and Marvel must get back together....

[chunbelievable]

Ryu and Fei Long's supers in SFA3 which do max damage at max range. Huh? Aside from fan service, why put something like that into a game, when you know the exact spacing necessary will almost never come up in an actual match?

Fei Long's crouching feirce at point blank range either on hit or block will put you and your opponent to the perfect range for the level 3 super everytime no matter where the two of you were on the screen. I have still yet to figure out Ryu's perfect set up.

[G.O.T]

Zero 3: World Tour Mode
It didn't necessarily fail it's just that it was never really used again in the Street Fighter series on console, and ps1 loading times kinda killed it since it wasn't arcade perfect in the first place. But casual play it made hella more fun than most fighters on console at the time.

Fatal Fury Special: Foreground/Background Jumping
I liked it. Never saw it again.

Guilty Gear Isuka: Turnaround Button
It's just a horrble design. Why have a turnaround button? It's stupid especially for that type of game.

Iron Phoenix: Well...just the game itself. ^^
The concept and preview before it's release seemed like it woulda been fun as hell. It just sucked ass when it finally got here. It would have been the truth if it followed it's idea well. 6 or 8 characters on the screen fighting with different weapons with teamwork sounded very innovative.

Killer Instinct: C-c-c-c-combo Breaker
Yes indeed. Innovative. The uncle of the burst system for GGXX.

Guilty Gear The Missing Link: Charging up your main attack move, and the OG IK system.
Level 3 Volcanic Vipers from Sol, Charge Blast from Kilff and Invite Hell from Zato-1 was no joke....like getting rickroll'd. Also I kinda miss the OG Instant Kill system from the 1st Guilty Gear. You didn't have to change the bar all you did was press punch and kick upclose to your opponent than do a qcf+square. Your opponent could counter the IK if timed right. It wasn't a tourney worthy game but it was the funnest to play of the franchise imo. It just didn't have enough characters or that much depth.

Soul Edge: Weapon Break
Getting on the fisticuffs was fun. Your weapon breaking made you choose your attacks wisely.

CvS1-2: Ratio system
This is still pretty innovative. Well for traditional fighters anyhow.

Yu Yu Hakusho 2 and Final: Charging your special meter
I liked how this was done. My homeboy and I had some intense matches because we out of energy, and we would stand there trying to charge so one of us could chip the other to death with a desperation attack.

Kung Fu Chaos: Customizing your tracks.
I'm not sure, and maybe I'm just stupid but i think this was one of the 1st fighting games to do customizing your own tracks.

[chunbelievable]

Toshinden... Star Gladiator.... we can do this for days.

[GrappleRific]

When seeing the thread I definitely thought vf3 from the get go. They tried the uneven ground, side step thing, etc. It's strange though that they went back to 2's roots for 4, it made it more accessible to people yes but the game's never caught on really outside of Japan, and they loved tb.

Someone mentioned Isuka above, I was totally excited about Isuka and I would love to see a good competent 4 player fighter. I'm not bashing Smash, I just mean something that plays more like a 'traditional' fighter. I just never really thought about how Isuka would end up before playing it, because yeah the mechanics in that game do not work with people on either side attacking.

Lastly someone dropped Power Stone, that was not a failure IMO. It had plenty of depth, but it was a brawler from the get go. Power Stone had more going on then a lot of people gave it credit for. There were certainly some interesting combos and set ups that could be done in 1, one thing was the stages were so radically different and some character set ups like Galuda for comboed super throw were much more difficult in low ceiling levels. I would love a Power Stone 3, going in either direction 1 or 2 because both are high in my books.

[Mixah]

i second CFE

[chopa]

As far as more traditional 4 player fighters go I like how bleach ds did it (simple move inputs help alot)
with or without the extra plane

[Jimmy Bones]

I go with Guilty Gear Isuka, the turnaround button is the major factor that affects the game negatively. Not enough depth.

[cain[e]]

Guilty Gear Isuka: Turnaround Button
It's just a horrible design. Why have a turnaround button? It's stupid especially for that type of game.



Had they used that old Yu Yu hakusho system, or something similar to bleach DS I feel that this game would actually be somewhat playable. Oh well x.x

[EveryFlowerFlow]

You can combo into Shin-Sho in a3, you don't need specific spacing alone.

[G.O.T]

Yeah a team based GG game that would have been well done would be excellent.....well.........look for GG2 haha lol. I wonder how that will work out.

[chunbelievable]

You can combo into Shin-Sho in a3, you don't need specific spacing alone.

What combo are you using?

[Zazzarius]

Yeah a team based GG game that would have been well done would be excellent.....well.........look for GG2 haha lol. I wonder how that will work out.i heard GG2 is decent, but its not a traditional fighter

so far its biggest flaw is that its a 360 game in Japan

[JackTenrac!]

G.O.T. you didn't play RBFF, did you?

[EveryFlowerFlow]

What combo are you using?

cr.forward xx shin sho.
meaty/CH cr.strong, cr.forward xx shin sho.

it's more a timing thing than it is spacing. too fast you get messatsu, too slow and you whiff.

[moltron1st]

Man ya'll really get technical with your fighting games don't you? lol but yeah T4 is still my favorite Tekken of all time; I can care less what flaws it had, and from what you guys say that it has, Namco could have just fixed it up and released Tekken 5 with all those ideas in tact..but of course its way too late for that. I just played the game and I liked it over any Tekken I've played; before that it was T2 and T3 then TTT. I don't play Tekken anymore since its crazy freakin combo heavy and seems like you don't need any strategy to even play the game...sigh...

I wish the Rival Schools series was able to keep going...I think the story line on the second installment kinda killed it, even though the fighting system was improved over the first one.

I would like to see Darkstalkers come back...perhaps if SF4 gets good reviews the creator may bring these two franchises back, including a new MvC game.

What happened to The Last Blade games? Do they still make those? That was also a good game....

I'm sorry but I had a thing (well, still kinda do) for Gundam Battle Assualt 2. I liked the premise of it...yeah it was slow but what do you expect using huge robots you know? I liked that it had limited use of supers (but if they connected you were assed out because of how much power they took), ammo, and the ability to dash but you couldn't do it like crazy because of the dash meter...and the way certain things was implemented using the dash meter like dodging and hovering. I didn't care too much for the 3rd installment but it was ok.

Just spurting out my opinions thats all :) anyone else have any thoughts on these?

[Gorehound]

Martial Masters

It had great gameplay, amazing animations (Rivaled 3s), colorful game designs, great combos!

But since it didn't had the word "CAPCOM" "SNK" or "ARC SYSTEM WORKS" nobody gave a shit about that game and it failed!

Very Sad!

[moltron1st]

Martial Masters

It had great gameplay, amazing animations (Rivaled 3s), colorful game designs, great combos!

But since it didn't had the word "CAPCOM" "SNK" or "ARC SYSTEM WORKS" nobody gave a shit about that game and it failed!

Very Sad!

Martial Masters? Hmmm when did that come out? Who made it by the way it sounds familar...I played a game close to that called Martial Champion which wasnt bad for its time and it could have been easily upgraded...unless thats the game you must be talking about lol:wgrin:

[Gorehound]

Martial Masters? Hmmm when did that come out? Who made it by the way it sounds familar...I played a game close to that called Martial Champion which wasnt bad for its time and it could have been easily upgraded...unless thats the game you must be talking about lol:wgrin:

Here ya go
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eGaXlmYDiHw

[Jimmy Bones]

Here ya go
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eGaXlmYDiHw

That could be a decent game. I feel sorry for them.

[terracotta]

what was so great about Weaponlord? i rented it once hearing great things about it, but had a hard time "getting" it. did it pioneer a lot of stuff, or are there good ideas there that we haven't seen in many other games?

[Helter Skelter]

Some of the games people are mention aren't even experimental.

Martial Master? Pfft, nothing new there. We had it in our arcade for while.

[NEBULOSO]

what was so great about Weaponlord? i rented it once hearing great things about it, but had a hard time "getting" it. did it pioneer a lot of stuff, or are there good ideas there that we haven't seen in many other games?

While ideas like Thrust Blocking (parrying) originated in SS2. WeaponLord made this a main part of its game play, which you pretty much had to use as when you couple it with other ideas like: Deflects, Staggers and Openers (guard-drop), you pretty much had no choice. And while very rarely done in a match, being able to Break your opponents weapon also effected and slightly changed WL's game play.

-The things that most likely detoured players away from WL, was its high learning curve and rather difficult CPU, and some players didn't like how half of the characters, special-move motions were like Primal Rage's Hold-Down the button and release.

[moltron1st]

Here ya go
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eGaXlmYDiHw

Aww man I never heard of this game this shit looks tight! Did it ever come out on systems? I like that one super with the girl calling in the village folk to stomp the hell out of the opponent! Hillarious:rofl:

[Ubersaurus]

Fatal Fury Special: Foreground/Background Jumping
I liked it. Never saw it again.



They had that in the Real Bout Fatal Fury series, too.

I liked the Eternal Champions CD system of fatalities being placement specific and incorporated more into the match, definitely something I don't think anyone else did.

Don't forget the "stress explosion" from Matrimelee :P

[Zamuel]

I wish the Rival Schools series was able to keep going...I think the story line on the second installment kinda killed it, even though the fighting system was improved over the first one.

Actually, I thought Rival Schools was one of the absolute best examples for storyline presentation in a fighting game.

For failed experiments, I'll say the Fighter Destiny series (Fighter's Destiny and Fighter Destiny 2). It was a 3D fighting game where winning a match was based upon obtaining enough points (default 7) in a ranking system. A ring out would be worth one, knock outs (including special single hit blows) were worth three, throws and locks were worth two, etc. It was a decent concept but being on the N64 may have doomed the series from the start. The mostly generic cast didn't help and the controls and animations could stand a little more tweaking. While there aren't huge changes between the two games, the second game increased framerate, improved visuals overall across the board, and added the Fighter's Arena to enhance one player play with a giant board game with a similar purpose as SFA3's World Tour mode.

[The Lone Dragon]

Kensei: Sacred Fist (a.k.a. "Bugi")

1. Situational blocking animations- instead of holding your arms up and shaking like 90% of fighting game guard animations, the fighters actually swayed and dodged attacks. If you pressed block quickly, you would dodge/sway and earn a faster guard stun recovery (advantage). If you were slow about it, you would get pushed back and lose that fast guard stun recovery (disadvantage).

So, in short, faster reflexes gave you an advantage.


2. Cool tackle/ground fighting mechanics- After tackling/mounting someone (like in Tekken), you were in a grab state similar to a beat 'em up. You could:

A.) Do a finishing move (like an arm breaker) and release your opponent.

OR

B.) Press punch, hit your foe once, remain on top of them, and choose A or B again.

However, punches could be reversed, putting the person being pounded on top. So, if you got too greedy with punches, the opponent could reverse and THEY would have the choice of A or B. If you were risk-averse, it was best to go for the arm breaker fast and end the transaction. If you were feelig a little froggy, go for a couple punches THEN the arm breaker for more total damage.






And, the game's music was tight.

[kmasera]

are you kidding me kensei owns

steven segal is a playable character

10/10

[Renesis_13]

Tobal 1 & 2, both of them were great and totally underrated, and Dream Factory ended up doing the crappy fan service game that was Ehrgeiz.

[ChrisLionheart]

aw man KENSAI was the shit!!! i remember steven segal and this girl that all you had to do was press one button over and over and she did like a 20 hit combo!

[crackbone]

Tobal 1 & 2, both of them were great and totally underrated, and Dream Factory ended up doing the crappy fan service game that was Ehrgeiz.

Big agreement. Tobal 2 never came out here, and I actually imported it. It looked great for its time, the animations were great, the fighting system was a great mix of Tekken and Soul Blade elements, and it was packed full of cool secrets. The best was the quest mode where you could capture and then use all sorts of different, really bizarre characters - 185 in total (although admittedly quite a few were recolor/resized).

Given the thread title though, I think the only way you could call it a failed experiment though is if you count not bringing it to America as an experiment!

[The Lone Dragon]

aw man KENSAI was the shit!!! i remember steven segal and this girl that all you had to do was press one button over and over and she did like a 20 hit combo!

You mean Saya Tsubaki(sp)?. If I had to make a tier list, I'd say she was probably pretty high up. She had the unblockable "Slap Frenzy"...crazy unpunishable Lei WuLong-style sweep...high priority and speed in a fairly sluggish game...


My favorite character was probably the "poor man's Hwoarang"...a.k.a. Heinz. His attack reversal animations were awesome.

[PersonaDark]

Here ya go
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eGaXlmYDiHw

Thanks, I completely missed this and it looks tight.

On Topic, I would say Enhergiz, which borrowed Tobal's engine if I remember correctly. It had potiential and the goofiness of it was refreshing, just needed a lot of work.

There's also Destraga. Interesting idea with magic based combat on large fields and could be revived as a 4 player party game to rival Brawl, just needed to fix some of the balancing flaws or flesh it out so the game doesn't grow stale.

[lamewadd]

Doa4.

DOA4 did something different? And it did something WORSE than past DOAs?

DOA4, IMO, was pretty much the same as past DOAs, but it did something right by cutting down on window for counters.

And it has the best online setup of any fighting game on consoles.

Oh...and Mortal Kombat: Subzero. Did that game do anything right?

[Ki Shima]

biggest and best failed experiment

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq93CEOtBBc

[orochizoolander]

Svc chaos had so much potential and the sprites were beautiful but the only problem is the majority of the cast were broken as hell ie: infinites, able to kill in very few moves, nearly impossible to escape traps/setups, and stuff that made it all into a battle of who can get there cheap shit out first!

The game is still fun as hell I liked the 4button layout I played nearly 10000 matches on xbl when it came out I even figured out how to beat god of cheap infinite super meter shin akuma with violent ken:rock:


SC2 (xbox) is hella underrated imo it's a great game and deserves a scene, I don't know why it never caught on.

[Parkreiner]

Oh...and Mortal Kombat: Subzero. Did that game do anything right?

Mythologies isn't a fighting game.

[Kayin]

DOA4 did something different? And it did something WORSE than past DOAs?

DOA4, IMO, was pretty much the same as past DOAs, but it did something right by cutting down on window for counters.

And it has the best online setup of any fighting game on consoles.

Oh...and Mortal Kombat: Subzero. Did that game do anything right?

Counters in 4 have the same window, there's just a fourth direction.

[The MC Clusky]

Eternal Champions.... while some of the characters may seem generic, they all had unique backgrounds, interesting stories, and the premise, each fighter fighting to regain a chance to relive the life that was taken from them before their time. The game has a lot of potential to pull fighters from all over history and different locations. The Eternal Champion himself was pretty cool too. Significant gameplay features:

-Had a meter to prevent special move spam
-simpler move inputs
-a unique training mode reminiscent of X-men's danger room
-biographies for all the characters.

It, like many fighters of it's time though had balance issues. But I still think it's a good concept, and deserves a revival.

[kmasera]

martial masters looks pretty decent

[Ultima]

Do entire fighting series like Eternal Champions count as failed experiments or just failed games? I'm a bit confused here.

When it comes to games that fall into failed experiment territory, the first game I thought of was Samurai Shodown 3. It is still the definition of failed experiment: SNk had near 2D weapon fighting perfection in SS2, and then they fucked it all to hell for no apparent reason with SS3. SS3 was an utter abomination, and while they corrected the most egregious flaws with SS4, it was really just putting lipstick on a pig. After bumbling through the terrible ideas of SS3 for another few games, we wouldn't start to get back on track until SS0, some 8 years after SS3 stank up the place.

Other games that came to mind are VF3 (just based on how they backpeddled in VF4), Tekken 4 (ditto), and SF3 series (the series pretty much convinced Capcom to not make another SF game for over a decade).

G.O.T.

SFA3 World Tour was far from a failed experiment. It was hailed as an absolutely fantastic addition to an already heavily stocked game. I don't know why they haven't brought it back in some form; perhaps it's because it requires too much work.

[makstaks]

While ideas like Thrust Blocking (parrying) originated in SS2. WeaponLord made this a main part of its game play, which you pretty much had to use as when you couple it with other ideas like: Deflects, Staggers and Openers (guard-drop), you pretty much had no choice. And while very rarely done in a match, being able to Break your opponents weapon also effected and slightly changed WL's game play.

-The things that most likely detoured players away from WL, was its high learning curve and rather difficult CPU, and some players didn't like how half of the characters, special-move motions were like Primal Rage's Hold-Down the button and release.


LOL im shocked people knew that was even in SS2. Anyway, parrying was somewhat introduced in World Heroes 2 which came out a year before SS2. It was too easy to do in WH2 so we tried to make it a little more skillful in SS2. Parrying on SS2 was a definite fail but fantastic idea :arazz:


SS2 still had plenty of fighting game innovations to keep people happy. :wgrin:

[jubeh]

For failed experiments, I'll say the Fighter Destiny series

I went and played this game after reading your post, and the concept is fucking awesome. Love it.

[Ki Shima]

check this out, i like the mechanics in bushido blade 2

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5-3q9ZwQAWk

i wanna know if kengo legend of 9 is like this, cos i might buy it tommorow. cant get bushido blade 2 anywhere

[jubeh]

check this out, i like the mechanics in bushido blade 2

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5-3q9ZwQAWk

i wanna know if kengo legend of 9 is like this, cos i might buy it tommorow. cant get bushido blade 2 anywhere

I heard that Kengo games sucked ass, and I doubt it's anything like Bushido Blade. Just look for cutscenes and see if there are any lifebars.

And good luck finding Bushido Blade. I had to rip an old lady's spine out of her back to get my copy.

[Ki Shima]

I heard that Kengo games sucked ass, and I doubt it's anything like Bushido Blade. Just look for cutscenes and see if there are any lifebars.

And good luck finding Bushido Blade. I had to rip an old lady's spine out of her back to get my copy.

yeah there are life bars, but argh i just want a game like this, maybe i should look for some player reviews. its like the 4th game or something there must be depth there

[Dencore]

Capcom Fight Jam/Capcom Fighting All-Stars. So much potential, so much lazy devs.

I mean yeah from what I heard CFJ sucked but when you think about it there was a hell lot of potential there.

[caliagent#3]

LOL im shocked people knew that was even in SS2. Anyway, parrying was somewhat introduced in World Heroes 2 which came out a year before SS2. It was too easy to do in WH2 so we tried to make it a little more skillful in SS2. Parrying on SS2 was a definite fail but fantastic idea :arazz:


SS2 still had plenty of fighting game innovations to keep people happy. :wgrin:

Parrying in ss2 is like a 1 frame window, seriously lol.

check this out, i like the mechanics in bushido blade 2

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5-3q9ZwQAWk

i wanna know if kengo legend of 9 is like this, cos i might buy it tommorow. cant get bushido blade 2 anywhere

I really like how the first bushido blade game was kinda all or nothing. The second one toned down the "damage" you could take more hits before dying and such.

[Zamuel]

I went and played this game after reading your post, and the concept is fucking awesome. Love it.

Cool. First game or second? And if the second one, did you try the Fighter Arena, yet?

[Riot Guard]

Wait, are you saying that Killer Insinct 2 wasn't as good as the first, or just not as popular. Because KI2 is leaps and bounds better than KI1.

LOL, I was just thinking about how you corrected me on this at Gameworks. You must admit that some of the characters were kind of cheesy.

For me Samurai Showdown III was much better than 1 and 2 both graphically and depth wise, but many fans think 2 is better.

[Riot Guard]

Martial Masters

It had great gameplay, amazing animations (Rivaled 3s), colorful game designs, great combos!

But since it didn't had the word "CAPCOM" "SNK" or "ARC SYSTEM WORKS" nobody gave a shit about that game and it failed!

Very Sad!

Some of the animations and specials are straight ripped from other games.

[lamewadd]

Counters in 4 have the same window, there's just a fourth direction.

Anybody confirm this?

(that DOA4's counter window is the same as other games in the series?)

[jubeh]

Cool. First game or second? And if the second one, did you try the Fighter Arena, yet?

The second. The fighter arena thing is the board game, right? I'm not really digging it. I've fought this Cherry person about 15 times.

[Zamuel]

The second. The fighter arena thing is the board game, right? I'm not really digging it. I've fought this Cherry person about 15 times.

Yeah. While fighting Cherry is one of the better stat building fights, it does get old fast. You can avoid her squares though. While stationary, you can scroll the map to get an overview of the paths and when you get to junctions, you can opt NOT to take the path with the forced fight against Cherry for nearly all of her fights. The nice thing about the mode is the ability to use the upgraded stats and brand new moves you get from fighting the Master after you complete the mode. A cheap way to do it is to get two memory cards, run through the mode on each card avoiding Cherry (which also makes the mode last less time), beat one of the final challenges, and then go into the Win Or Lose option in Versus to gamble your special moves and just beat your extra character. To be honest, even if you run through the Fighter Arena perfectly, there is still one more move that you can only get by doing Win Or Lose mode.

[DTJB]

What happened to The Last Blade games? Do they still make those? That was also a good game....
At last report, SNKP has no intention of making anymore Last Blade games. Ever. Only played a little of this series and I can say it's a total shame that the franchise won't continue.

Aww man I never heard of this game this shit looks tight! Did it ever come out on systems?
Checked Gamefags. Looks like it was an arcade release only.

[CarreauOverkill]

I played some old Kengo and the ideas were fucking epic. Seriously.

Your default form of blocking was parrying. You made stances by equipping techniques fitting that stance with a point buy system. You could put special parry counters into these 9 slots where e.g. 5 is a jab attack, 9 is a diagonal slash from above. Then, when you parried a diagonal slash from above and you had that 9 counter attack, you could instantly execute it. You also had guard breaking and offensive techniques as well as battojutsu shit where you could attack people with your sword undrawn.

The life bars are there because each hit makes you bleed. So getting hit once isn't the end of it, you can still manage to kill your opponent and win the match before you bleed out. Not a lot of time there, though.

You also can train your skills to be faster/deal more damage/etc. and buy better swords. The vs mode is fun as hell, as well.

The only problems of the old Kengo games were the animation, collision detection and obscurity.

[Atb_555]

I heard that Kengo games sucked ass, and I doubt it's anything like Bushido Blade. Just look for cutscenes and see if there are any lifebars.

And good luck finding Bushido Blade. I had to rip an old lady's spine out of her back to get my copy.

Kengo 2 was actually quite a decent game imo. This my sound very cliche but its all about quick reflexes but it was fun. I need to get that game again.

[Tim Static]

Mortal Kombat 4.

Had to go 3-D (ish) because of Tekken & Soul Caliber, and look what *cough* "great" games came after.

10 years of making bad 3-D fighters might be a hint to maybe stop making 3-D fighters? no. MKvDC.

[Donkus]

Tobal 1 & 2, both of them were great and totally underrated, and Dream Factory ended up doing the crappy fan service game that was Ehrgeiz.

EZ wasn't fanservice until it came out on the PS. Arcade was killed by the high learning curve.

[Snatcher]

Some of the animations and specials are straight ripped from other games.

True, guy named Tiger has Sabretooth's Berserker Claw X, same yelling pose after doing it even.

[KnightWarrior]

Samurai Shodown III & Tekken 4

[Hisham]

True, guy named Tiger has Sabretooth's Berserker Claw X, same yelling pose after doing it even.
The main guy's punch super is ripped straight from Ibuki haha.

Except he doesn't grab when close enough.

[makstaks]

Strip Fighter 2.

Not much else to say.....yup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdCn39yh3_k

[jubeh]

I actually played the first (I think) Kengo game, and I was pleasantly surprised. Mostly because I went to a tournament and was murdered, which is just awesome to me. I should probably lay off the samurai movies.

But it's so clunky, and the hit detection is frustrating at times. I was really having to TRY to have fun. I could see it being really badass if they fixed a lot of this stuff. But the fact that I could actually learn the tsubame gaeishi was pretty badass.