Special Property Guards/Armors in SSBB

[Tam]

INVINCIBILITY--You have no vulnerable hit-box, period. You pass through all attacks as if they aren't even there.
(Ex. Most of the start-up frames of the old-school Dragon Punch (Shoryuken), Starman in Smash)

SUPER ARMOR--A property that some characters have standing AND in certain moves. You can take a single minor hit without going into hit stun (flinching and being knocked out of your attack). You always take full damage from any hit you absorb, and you can't absorb throws or unblockable attacks.
(Ex. Hulk in the Marvel Versus series, Zangief's Running Powerbomb in the Marvel Versus series)

AUTOGUARD--A property ONLY found in certain moves and ONLY for a certain amount of frames. During those frames you can take an unlimited number of hits without flinching or going into hitstun (your move will always continue to execute until you reach non-autoguard frames or you take enough damage to get KOed). In most cases, you only take block damage from hits you absorb although in some instances you can take full damage and you can't absorb throws and most unblockable attacks.
(Ex. Maxima's Vapor Cannon in most KOFs, Chang's ch + in KOFs and CvS2)

Updated Definitions

Who has Invincibility?

All Shield+A/Z button grabs

Jigglypuff

Jigglypuff's Down B contributed by Corner-Trap
Jigglypuff's Rest DOES NOT have SAF, it has invincibility frames(confirmed this last night

Uses of Invincibility

Who has Auto Guard?

Squirtle, part of PT

- Forward B, while Squirtle is in the shell

Uses of Auto Guard

Who has Super Armor?

Bowser

- Bowser's down+B contributed by Raph_Stryker

Charizard, part of PT

- Charizard's up+B, the initial frames of the move.
- Charizard's Forward+B, during startup contributed by crazymasterhand

Donkey Kong

- Donkey Kong's fully charged Giant Punch, not sure when it has super armor contributed by Raph_Stryker

More on the fully charged Punch

-Full Charged Donkey Punch- Super Armor is the Donkey Punch itself, about ~25 frames after startup of a full charge DK punch you are in Super Armor sate. It is set-up such that, it will never trade hits. In a trade situation DK will always win. But, you will still be hit OUT of a DonkeyPunch early.

- Donkey Kong's start up of his winding up of fist
- DK's up+B on ground, -upB (Grounded)- Super Armor frames on start-up, this is the BIGGEST SA window DK has, it's now as effective as Bowser fortress with Invulnerable start-up, the window is the whole entire time his elbow is raised before it's active, BUT, additionally, there is a small window after invulnerability, and before it's active where you can STILL be hit out of the move. This means that upB is very effective against single strike moves (IKE COUGH COUGH) and not multi stuff like most Dsmashes. on ground, the trajectory is enough to be safe on guard but don't expect much horizontal movement, it only has enough. Finally, the grounded version has AMAZING almost instant recovery, while the last hit has the most knockback of the entire move. contributed by Kyle Wattula of Smashboards

Ganondolf

- side B, after he grabs 'em and chokes or slams contributed by Ganny of smash boards

Ice Climbers

- Forward+B, start up contributed by Som of smashboards

Ike

- Ike's AAA combo, has super armor after initial jab contributed by Miracle Matter
- Ike's neutral+B, when executing the move but not charing contributed by Miracle Matter
- Ike's down-tilt, after the start up frames. contributed by Miracle Matter
- Ike's up+B, after he throws his sword
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBHLoR-SEfY& contributed by Miracle Matter

King Dedede

- King Dedede's up+B, on his way upward, not at start up or after the peak fall. contributed by Nicktendo and UTD Zac of Smashboards
- B neutral, only the duration when characters enter his mouth contributed by SamuraiPanda of Smashboards

Kirby

- B neutral, only the duration when characters enter his mouth contributed by SamuraiPanda of Smashboards

Marth

- Up B, upon initiation contributed by SamuraiPanda of smashboards.com

Mr. Game and Watch

- Mr. Game and Watch's up smash, after the initial start up contributed by Raph_Stryker

Olimar

- Olimar's down+B, initial frames of the move.

Pit

- Down+B, has super armor while pulling shield out contributed by Brown Paper Sack from Smash Boards

Snake

- Snake's Up+B, during the initial frames of the move contributed by Miracle Matter
- Snake's down tilt, after the initial hit as he's spinning on the ground stolen from http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=151641&page=3

Sonic

- Side B, It lasts from the start until the top of the little arch when it kinda hops.

Squirtle, part of PT

- Forward Smash, in the beginning contributed by Serpit of Smashboards, while he's in the shell contributed by -Aether of Smashboards

- Forward+B, upon initiation contributed by SamuraiPanda of Smashboards

Wario

- Wario's Forward Smash, contributed by Raph_Stryker
- Wario's Bite contributed by 3GOD

The Bite completely OWNS most character's f-smash. I was playing MookieRah's Sonic, and he started to f-smash me, only to find himself getting chomped. I've tested, and pretty much any character who leans in or uses part of their body to attack for their f-smash gets eaten by the Bite. Even Marth's f-smash gets eaten if it's not spaced well.

An interesting aspect of this is that for some moves, Wario still takes damage while at the same time chomping on the opponent. Taking damage could have something to do with super armor frames (for your opponents attack) since I took damage from another Wario's f-smash and a fully charged Donkey Punch. But I think it more likely has something to do with the hitbox connecting on the same frame as the "Bite Box" since I also took damage from a NON-charged Donkey Punch (I don't think it has super armor if not charged).

Yoshi

- Yoshi's second jump, during the time he's jumping, note that at high percents he does not have it any more contributed by Raph_Stryker


Uses of Super Armor

[Raph_Stryker]

-Bowser's Down+B
-Mr. Game and Watch's Up Smash, after the initial start up
-Donkey Kong's fully charged Giant Punch, its really hard to tell the points of AutoGuard
-Wario's Foward Smash, all during it i believe.

[Miracle Matter]

- Ike's jab combo/AAA has super armor after the initial jab.
- Ike's neutral+B, when executing the move but not when charging.
- Ike's down-tilt, after the start up frames.
- Snake's Up+b, during the initial frames of the move.

[AlphaDragoon02]

Ike's Up + B has it at the beginning, as he's throwing Ragnell into the air.

[subt-L]

Ike's Up + B has it at the beginning, as he's throwing Ragnell into the air.
yeah, i was wondering about that. peach can use toad to edge guard ike's up+b depending on the situation, so i know for sure it doesn't have super armor for the full move..

[Raph_Stryker]

oops, almost forgot the OG Smash autoguard

Yoshi's second jump, during the time he is actually jumping.

[Corner-Trap]

Jigglypuffs DownB

[crazymasterhand]

Charizard >B, think during startup

[AlphaDragoon02]

yeah, i was wondering about that. peach can use toad to edge guard ike's up+b depending on the situation, so i know for sure it doesn't have super armor for the full move..

It's very situational, as most times there's no way into an Aether with the possibilities being A: trying to hit him during the Super Armor Frames which does nothing or B: Trying to hit him on the way down and eating a sword to the face due to disjointed hitbox.

The best way to counter an Aether is to not fuck with Ike for the entire duration, or block it.

[Daemonk]

Shield grab usually works well when Ike does any super armor moves.

[AlphaDragoon02]

Shield grab usually works well when Ike does any super armor moves.

Which falls under the "or block" category. :rofl:

[Daemonk]

umm okay. good job.

[Tam]

post updated
if you guys find more let me know!!

[lamewadd]

Wouldn't this just be auto-guard?

And it's only on Ike's up+B when he's starting it up and going up. As he's going down, he's open to attack.

[Tam]

Yeah you could say so, lamewadd but... that's more of a SNK term.
You can use either super armor or auto guard. I mean you can be more precise but I like super armor because that's what is being given to you when you initiate these attacks.

I came from the capcom world but I can understand where SNK heads are coming from!

[Miracle Matter]

Super armor also goes through Final Smashes.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBHLoR-SEfY&

[King9999]

Super armor also goes through Final Smashes.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBHLoR-SEfY&

That's good to know. So now when I'm about to take a FS, I can just use a move that has super armor and I'm in the clear. Ike is my secondary, so I can just use Aether, but with Ganondorf, guess I'm screwed...

[Tam]

lol I see someone has posted my topic over here
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154466

well without further ado I'll just update the content later tonight

[Deth-Scyanyde]

Ganondorf has super armor the instant his >+B connects and he's in his throw animation...

[Oroman]

lol I see someone has posted my topic over here
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154466

well without further ado I'll just update the content later tonight

Shit he could have at least gave you credit?:rofl:

[M3D]

I've noticed that there are some gaps in the super armor on Ike's up+b. I have hit him mid-attack with a fully charged aurasphere and he didn't flinch. Other times I've just barely tapped him with an uncharged version of it and its disrupted his recovery. It may be that super armor goes away once his hand catches the sword again, in which case you can pressure his recovery by timing projectiles. In any case, it needs some more testing because he's not invincible for the entire move.

[Return of Shiki]

Wouldn't this just be auto-guard?

And it's only on Ike's up+B when he's starting it up and going up. As he's going down, he's open to attack.

Yes, it actually is autoguard and not "Super Armor".

People are simply confusing terms or are just ignorant of the term "autoguard".

Yeah you could say so, lamewadd but... that's more of a SNK term.
You can use either super armor or auto guard. I mean you can be more precise but I like super armor because that's what is being given to you when you initiate these attacks.

I came from the capcom world but I can understand where SNK heads are coming from!

It has nothing at ALL to do with "worlds".

Autoguard and Super Armor are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT KINDS OF PROPERTIES.

[quiche]

I've yet to be able to use Olimar's super armor to any great effect. On the ground, it seems like you get quicker recovery by just shielding instead, plus you don't take damage that way. I can see it maybe being useful in the air, but I'm not sure if air-dodging wouldn't be better in most situations.

...seriously.

[Shinto]

I'm waiting on someone to realize Ike is just a giant Super Armor.....sure do seem like it.

[Tam]

Well I guess I'll change the terms and topic around. I'll update later tonight from them smash board ppl

[Return of Shiki]

I'm waiting on someone to realize Ike is just a giant Super Armor.....sure do seem like it.

Except he isn't.

Super Armor is a property that:

A) Is active when a character is standing still
B) Can be broken with a single strong attack or 2-or-more weak attacks.

Ike's "armor" is nothing like that. It is true autoguard.

[AlphaDragoon02]

Ike's "armor" is nothing like that. It is true autoguard.

Yeah, Ike has a ton of autoguard, and I don't think anyone (even the guys who had the Japanese version) even realized just how many of his moves have it.

He's like Orochi Saga Kyo Kusanagi, had autoguard on his punch chains that snuffed attacks/projectiles for free.

[AmbiguousCrosup]

TAM, you need to register on SWF and ask that they give you credit for the list. It's pretty lame that they aren't giving you credit.

[Tam]

oh I am, but I don't care too much anyone else could of done this too!

Shiki, super armor is not just activated at all times. For instance in MvC2, Zangief gains this armor when he's doing a super piledriver

I'll say invincibility frames/super armor or autoguard/super armor. Because the difference to me is that one takes damage IE: the super armor & the other AUTOGUARD, doesn't.

I think of kof98's Kyo when he's doing that QCF or something and he's safe to hit anybody. I think that's Auto Guard.

In any case, i'll update the list soon!

[Return of Shiki]

Shiki, super armor is not just activated at all times.

True. However, I never said that.

I'll say invincibility frames/super armor or autoguard/super armor. Because the difference to me is that one takes damage IE: the super armor & the other AUTOGUARD, doesn't.

Actually, you take damage in the cases of both Super Armor and Autoguard.

[Worthless]

Ike

- Ike's AAA combo, has super armor after initial jab contributed by Miracle Matter
- Ike's neutral+B, when executing the move but not charing contributed by Miracle Matter
- Ike's down-tilt, after the start up frames. contributed by Miracle Matter
- Ike's up+B, after he throws his sword
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBHLoR-SEfY& contributed by Miracle Matter


I just wanted to hop on and say something about about Ike's AAA.I'm probably wrong (since i haven't slept at all)but in Brawl whenever two basic attacks (and some specials)collide no damage is incurred on either side.

Have you ever jabbed/attacked/etc someone at the exact same time and had that little bounce or whatever?Like a Guilty Gear clash without the flair?Yeah that's what happens.

I can see why the whole autoguard thing would pop up from his AAA,but it's mainly due to that kick(2nd attack).It comes out stupidly fast,so it's easier to trade with stuff.The startup/recovery frames for each of the 3 attacks do NOT have super armor however.So you can't just AAA your way through everything.That would be CRAZY.

Which brings me to my next point.Only certain things can be traded with.For example,You can jab a fully charged Samus shot or a pikmin.While conversely you cannot jab a space animal laser(go figure).This also applies to some specials as you can stop Ike's Quick Draw short by throwing a pikmin in the way.It does take a degree of timing though in most cases,as only certain spots in the attack have the trading property.

I figure more than a week into the game,this is basic to all of you,but i figured I'd just throw it out there.

[Miracle Matter]

Stuff about Ike's neutral AAA combo.

What you're saying is that Ike only has super armor on the active frames of his AAA combo, correct? Either that or it has really high priority since it seems to beat or clash with a lot of things. You're right about it being really ridiculous if the entire combo had super armor on it.:sweat:

[Return of Shiki]

Invincibility - For a set period of time, you receive no damage and nothing can disrupt your attacks from completion.
Auto Guard - Allows you to not flinch or disrupt your attack duration. Damage is NOT received from opponent's attacks.
Super Armor - Allows you to not flinch or disrupt your attack duration. Damage is received from your opponent's attack.


Not to nitpick even further, but your definitions of these terms are a bit off.

INVINCIBILITY--You have no vulnerable hit-box, period. You pass through all attacks as if they aren't even there.
(Ex. Most of the start-up frames of the old-school Dragon Punch (Shoryuken), Starman in Smash)

SUPER ARMOR--A property that some characters have standing AND in certain moves. You can take a single minor hit without going into hit stun (flinching and being knocked out of your attack). You always take full damage from any hit you absorb, and you can't absorb throws or unblockable attacks.
(Ex. Hulk in the Marvel Versus series, Zangief's Running Powerbomb in the Marvel Versus series)

AUTOGUARD--A property ONLY found in certain moves and ONLY for a certain amount of frames. During those frames you can take an unlimited number of hits without flinching or going into hitstun (your move will always continue to execute until you reach non-autoguard frames or you take enough damage to get KOed). In most cases, you only take block damage from hits you absorb although in some instances you can take full damage and you can't absorb throws and most unblockable attacks.
(Ex. Maxima's Vapor Cannon in most KOFs, Chang's ch :l::r:+:p: in KOFs and CvS2)

[Tam]

Alright Shiki I fixed some of it up

now I'll try to update everything from smashboards on Monday evening