China and Tibet - Hackers on Communism

[CarreauOverkill]

There are so many links about this but I'll just write elaborated ingresses and follow with links;

Targeted malware attacks against pro-Tibet groups.

Concentrated effort to use pro-Tibet themed emails to infect computers of the members of pro-Tibet groups to spy on their actions. The mails are almost always forged to look like they would be coming from trusted persons or organisations, making it more likely they get opened by the recipient. The actual malware is specifically modified to avoid detection.
link (http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00001406.html)
China shutting down and blocking video-sharing sites

China will shut down or punish dozens of video-sharing Web sites for carrying content deemed pornographic, violent or a threat to national security under rules that tighten Internet controls, a regulator said Friday. The announcement came as Chinese Web surfers were blocked from seeing foreign sites with video about protests in Tibet. This includes YouTube, Google Videos and many others.
link (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CHINA_INTERNET_VIDEO?SITE=RIPRJ&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

FYI: China has the most internet users in the world. That's the internet side, but it of course gets worse;
China paper: Crush Tibet 'sabotage'

The flagship newspaper of China's ruling Communist Party called Saturday for efforts to "resolutely crush" anti-government demonstrations by Tibetans, while Beijing urged people to turn in those on a "Most Wanted" list of 21 protesters.
link (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/22/china.tibet.ap/index.html)
China lashes out at crackdown critics
China lashed out Sunday at critics of its crackdown on Tibetan protesters, describing U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as "habitually bad tempered" while claiming the Western media serve those who want to smear the communist country.
link (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CHINA_TIBET?SITE=NCBER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

China locks down restive regions

Chinese authorities are continuing to tighten security following days of protests by Tibetans in the main city, Lhasa, and in surrounding provinces. In one town in Gansu, a BBC journalist saw rows of armed soldiers and heard broadcasts telling people to surrender. On Thursday, China admitted for the first time that troops had shot and injured protesters during the unrest.
link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7308107.stm)


There are no foreign journalists in Tibet anymore. Protesters get shot. 210 million internet users are prevented from reading and expressing opinions online, something you and I consider as natural as breathing. Protesters, including foreign pro-Tibetan people, are getting their computers hacked. What next, I ask? I thought humanity left this shit behind after the Soviet Union crumbled.

I am fucking appalled.

[fishjie]

sovereign china bitches. Im in china as i type this. We just xcopy the american strats to rise to power. After we rule the world then we worry about rights just like the usa

[Phoenix Wright]

China fucking sucks. Thank god I don't live in that shitty country. And no... the assholes who hijacked our government are copying China's slavery strats.

[FurryCurry]

So can an intelligent srker explain to me why Tibet can't be free? Doesn't Tibet and China have like two different mindsets? It's not like the US Civil War with a country dividing in half over an immoral issue such as slavery. It's like monks versus commie goons. So yeah someone get me some info and what not. I'm interested.

Oh and if China doesn't get this shit straightened out, I bet that there will be an Olympic Boycott. Ohhhhh and how embarrassing that would be.

[Phoenix Wright]

So can an intelligent srker explain to me why Tibet can't be free? Doesn't Tibet and China have like two different mindsets? It's not like the US Civil War with a country dividing in half over an immoral issue such as slavery. It's like monks versus commie goons. So yeah someone get me some info and what not. I'm interested.

Oh and if China doesn't get this shit straightened out, I bet that there will be an Olympic Boycott. Ohhhhh and how embarrassing that would be.

Tibet can't be free because China has a shitty government.

[Bernard]

So can an intelligent srker explain to me why Tibet can't be free? Doesn't Tibet and China have like two different mindsets? It's not like the US Civil War with a country dividing in half over an immoral issue such as slavery. It's like monks versus commie goons. So yeah someone get me some info and what not. I'm interested.

Oh and if China doesn't get this shit straightened out, I bet that there will be an Olympic Boycott. Ohhhhh and how embarrassing that would be.


Because China has troops all over Tibet.


The Tibetans are being assholes in this case, they are lynching non-Tibetans because they are not Tibetans. Even the Dalai Lama has threatened to step down because of what the Tibetans not the Chinese.

[fishjie]

easy. If tibet goes free other parts of china will want freedom as well. This causes more instability. So china says no and In a few decades no will care just like with the native americans.

[Return of Shiki]

So what exactly keeps the Communists in power?

Other than significant poverty of the citizens, oppression, and censorship??? You gotta figure that ONE BILLION CHINESE would eventually get tired of such a government...

[RockBogart]

I hope those Chinese hackers lose fingers. Assholes hacked my WoW account today.

[Dhalsimowns]

The Chinese know their eagle-claw is superior to Tibetan prancing kitten.

No, but seriously, its looks like china will never grow beyond their xenophobic ways. Still, managing a country of 2 billion must be a bitch, and I am hardly in position to explain how. China needs to get with the program though. Totalitarian regimes are not known for being progressive, and China has ALOT of progressing to do.

[ElderGOD]

Why can't China leave Tibet alone.

As far as the Internet goes, I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happen in the US soon.

[Manx]

I hope those Chinese hackers lose fingers. Assholes hacked my WoW account today.
You didn't get hacked. Admit it, you tried to download a hack program, didn't you? LOL

Does China have access to completely open source software? I really want to know how so many people outside of China are getting hacked. There's got to be at least one credible news source with a patched and secured server out there.

[Dhalsimowns]

easy. If tibet goes free other parts of china will want freedom as well. This causes more instability. So china says no and In a few decades no will care just like with the native americans.

?? What happened with the native Americans is so completely different than this, you cannot draw a realistic comparison.

[Ouroborus]

sovereign china bitches!

[Calibur]

sovereign china bitches. Im in china as i type this. We just xcopy the american strats to rise to power. After we rule the world then we worry about rights just like the usa

Exactly. Americans have no right to talk about the liberty of other countries when we are trying to (and succeding at ) legalizing torture and holding human beings indefinitely without trial or counsel.

[Superking]

sovereign china bitches!

exactly.

[ElderGOD]

China and America are both fucked up, but we're getting a new president soon, I don't see China changing any time soon.

[fishjie]

So what exactly keeps the Communists in power?

Other than significant poverty of the citizens, oppression, and censorship??? You gotta figure that ONE BILLION CHINESE would eventually get tired of such a government...

Its not really communist. They are capatalist at heart. Give it a few decades. As someone who goes there often and who is there now i can say the reports of opression are exagerated. People here are happy. Will say more but hard to type on phone need a computer

[Hellion]

I thought humanity left this shit behind after the Soviet Union crumbled.

You're kidding.

?? What happened with the native Americans is so completely different than this, you cannot draw a realistic comparison.

You too.

[Dataika]

I posted a thread about this a while back, but no one cared or even wanted to know anything about it. Fishjie is right, China's not really communist. It's more of a capitalism in the hands of a powerful few (state capitalism, although a lot of hippy anarchists throw this term around loosely so I hate using it)...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/23/1064082990875.html

That's a good article written by someone who was the head of the Free Tibet movement. We have built this image of the Dalai Lama, but in truth he's a lot like the Catholic Pope; He doesn't allow or believe in contraception; thinks that Homosexuality is against his Holy Code; thinks anything outside of vaginal penetration is not part of the eight precepts. In fact there are a lot of similarities.

That being said, the Dalai Lama does have some very pragmatic views expressed although I still feel he's a little behind the times.

This all ignores, as well, the fact that Tibet was run by lamas who lived on huge lots of land and had tons of serfs working the fields. Even the Dalai Lama acknowledges that Tibet needed to have major reforms because of the terrible conditions and backwardness of the country. The penal system was especially brutal.

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

However, that's not to say that Chinese occupation is the greatest thing in the world either. But let's not pretend that Tibet was some great place where all these trustworthy and pious monks lived and all of a sudden China just said "fuck yo couch" and stormed that shit. Because that's not true. I also think though, that categorizing old Tibet as a horrible country in all facets is a little unfair too. Neither system has given them much of a choice (from the early Lamas forcefully converting people [OMG BUDDHISM HAS THOSE TOO?!?! WTF!!!?], to the corrupt Chinese politicians).

EDIT: I'd hate to harp on this but the fall of the Soviet Union was due to Leninism (and to a lesser extent, Marxism), not communism.

[FurryCurry]

Great. So not a single person here has given me a good answer. Fail. I'm gonna have to go like read a book or something now. Shit....:shake:

Wait, wait. Dataika to the rescue? My man. My man.

[Airthrow]

Consider the fact that there are a huge number of Chinese in Tibet also, and there is tons of Chinese built infrastructure in the country. It can't be returned to Tibet for pretty much the same reason America won't return the country to the Natives. It's too late and when 80+% of the country is Chinese the people who care about a non-Chinese Tibet will be the minority.

[Superking]

Consider the fact that there are a huge number of Chinese in Tibet also, and there is tons of Chinese built infrastructure in the country. It can't be returned to Tibet for pretty much the same reason America won't return the country to the Natives. It's too late and when 80+% of the country is Chinese the people who care about a non-Chinese Tibet will be the minority.

bingo.

[Calibur]

bump

[Phoenix Wright]

The Tibetans should be hardcore like the founding fathers and declare independence from china.

[fishjie]

Consider the fact that there are a huge number of Chinese in Tibet also, and there is tons of Chinese built infrastructure in the country. It can't be returned to Tibet for pretty much the same reason America won't return the country to the Natives. It's too late and when 80+% of the country is Chinese the people who care about a non-Chinese Tibet will be the minority.

now that i am back in america, i will troll this thread hard.

but first, NAPTIME

[Calibur]

The Tibetans should be hardcore like the founding fathers and declare independence from china.

Tibet won't have the help of a large body of water separating them, or the French's help like our founding fathers did.

[The Epidemic]

now that i am back in america, i will troll this thread hard.

but first, NAPTIME

Dooo iiiiiiit!!!:rofl:

[fishjie]

?? What happened with the native Americans is so completely different than this, you cannot draw a realistic comparison.

you're right, what the united states did is much worse. they systematically killed, lied to, robbed, cheated, subjugated, and impoverished the native americans over a period of many, many decades, slowly taking over all their land, before leaving them as broken and empty nations filled with fireworks, casinos, and alcoholics.

do you see anyone today protesting their sad fate? no. nobody gives a shit. just like nobody will give a shit about hippy liberals protesting tibet. china took them over. they're certainly not going to give them back. to suggest so is ludicrous.

china is oppressive and sucks, no doubt. i certainly disagree with their tactics of censorship. they should just be honest and open and say that they dont give a shit, just like america does with its native americans. but with that said, they have no reason to give tibet independence. tibet was always a part of china, and when tibet declared independence in the 1900s or whatever, i'm pretty sure no other country recognized their sovereignty. so when we took it back, we were just taking back what was ours. it'd be like if the cherokees declared independence from the usa, and the US invaded them, and put the cherokees back in their place. americans wouldn't give a shit. just like the chinese don't give a shit.

as i said before, if they gave tibet independence, other provinces in china would want out as well. kind of like how if we some land back to the natives, other tribes would want their land back too, until all of america was back in native american hands. its not in china's interest to cause this kind of instability, just like its not in usa's interest to give land back to the natives, or give reparations to black people, or undo the damage they did in south america or africa.

[Geddoe]

The Tibetans should be hardcore like the founding fathers and declare independence from china.
You realize that the Tibetans actually attacking the Chinese would basically give China the go ahead to crucify(literally if they feel like it) every Tibetan in the country, right?

[龙凯锋]

21 Mar 2008,The Chinese news agency Xinhua says 10 people were killed in Lhasa on Friday,including five young women(of Han ethnic group)who were burned to death in a clothing outlet.

Hu Jintao have them killed by rascals,or by spies of the CCP!

[10x]

"Hu Jintao have them killed by rascals":rock:

Spanky is brutal.

[*InVeRs3*]

Lol.

EVeryone is going gaga in SF because of china and tibet.

On the newspaper, i see one guy, probobly a chinese guy, figthing a white guy, who's pro-tibet.

GG Hipster.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

Symbolic my ass, what the fuck is putting out that gay ass torch going to do, I mean really? Fucking liberals are never happy no matter what. Make them move to Tibet or give their land back to the Natives, or simply shut the fuck up.

Show them how you do this Fishjie, let these nigs know whats up.

[MAGUS1234]

you're right, what the united states did is much worse. they systematically killed, lied to, robbed, cheated, subjugated, and impoverished the native americans over a period of many, many decades, slowly taking over all their land, before leaving them as broken and empty nations filled with fireworks, casinos, and alcoholics.

do you see anyone today protesting their sad fate? no. nobody gives a shit. just like nobody will give a shit about hippy liberals protesting tibet. china took them over. they're certainly not going to give them back. to suggest so is ludicrous.

china is oppressive and sucks, no doubt. i certainly disagree with their tactics of censorship. they should just be honest and open and say that they dont give a shit, just like america does with its native americans. but with that said, they have no reason to give tibet independence. tibet was always a part of china, and when tibet declared independence in the 1900s or whatever, i'm pretty sure no other country recognized their sovereignty. so when we took it back, we were just taking back what was ours. it'd be like if the cherokees declared independence from the usa, and the US invaded them, and put the cherokees back in their place. americans wouldn't give a shit. just like the chinese don't give a shit.



as i said before, if they gave tibet independence, other provinces in china would want out as well. kind of like how if we some land back to the natives, other tribes would want their land back too, until all of america was back in native american hands. its not in china's interest to cause this kind of instability, just like its not in usa's interest to give land back to the natives, or give reparations to black people, or undo the damage they did in south america or africa.

So if they are open and honest about extreme human rights violations it's somehow bettter? Theres a problem and independence is an answer, or China can start to change it's oppressive tactics which I dont see happening. You value China's sovereignty of Tibet over Human rights, I don;t agree with that unless a realistic alternative is presented.

Pablo- well you are talking about it now correct? So it brings awareness and discourse to a subject that is often overlooked by westerners.

[fishjie]

So if they are open and honest about extreme human rights violations it's somehow bettter? Theres a problem and independence is an answer, or China can start to change it's oppressive tactics which I dont see happening. You value China's sovereignty of Tibet over Human rights, I don;t agree with that unless a realistic alternative is presented.

Pablo- well you are talking about it now correct? So it brings awareness and discourse to a subject that is often overlooked by westerners.

nope, i said they shouldn't censor or kill protesters, but just say no to independence. simple.

independence has never and will never be an answer. tibet is part of china. accept it and move on. it was in the past, the had independence for a few decades, and we reclaimed it. there is zero reason to give it independence, and every reason not to. just like there is zero reason to give land back to native americans, and every reason not to.

[MAGUS1234]

But thats not gonna happen, China is STILL going to do that, independence is the best option.you don;t think people said the same shit about Soviet states, and looked what happened with them. People are fighting as much as they can for proper treatment within China but can't do anything, Tibet is doing what they can with the options they have. I mean who in Tibet is gonna change anything China is gonna do within thier system? They have a better chance to completely remove themselves from it instead. CHina will have a reason if Tibet gets enough attention around the world, believe that.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

USSR lost the Cold war and it was downhill from there. However, that was WWIII potential type shit in east vs west. Tibet isn't even close to being as important or relevant to anything.

Not that China is going about it in the most efficient manner, but China will never budge. They are beast.