Boost Smashing: Finally, a real advanced technique!

[4649]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Q2gfVEf0k

"It's like boost grabbing from Melee only you're cancelling the startup of the dash attack with an u-smash.

You dash, hit down-C to do a dash attack, then immediately hit up and Z (grab button) to cancel the dash attack with an u-smash.

The boost in speed from the dash attack continues into the u-smash and you slide during it using that increased momentum. I would imagine the ideal timing is when the dash attack propels you forward the most.

1) Dash
2) Down-C (starts dash attack)
3) Up and Z (grab button)"

This could potentially make some characters REALLY scary......I need to go test out the possibilities of doing this out of a dash dance and doing this to follow up a SHFF'ed normal.....

[Sao]

at first i was like most characters can just dash and c-up to achieve this. But when you watch more it looks like something to definitely spend time learning! now i know how all those snakes do the dashing mortar.

[StuartHayden]

whoa.

cool.

[Tam]

I wish ROB's up smash covered more distance but this may prove useful when people are coming down or don't expect me to be in a certain place WOO!

[mastermind]

Holy crap.

[ssjbrydon]

its easy to do with characters who have longer dash attack it seems. its easy to do with snake but a pain in the ass to do with toon link. i dont even think its useful for toon link either, i cant get him to really dash his up smash far no matter how well i time it.

[King9999]

Nice...looks like something worth learning. Do you have to press the grab button to make it work, though? And how about the C-stick?

[Septimus Prime]

You know, if you combine this with "alpha canceling," you can pretty much do an instant sliding up-smash.

EDIT: I'm calling that a "prime cancel," bitches.

[orochizoolander]

I use the classic controller so it's; dash, smashstick down, smashstick up+z?

I just get a dashing grab not a sliding upsmash so is my timing off?

[Brahma]

I believe they call this DLX hit cancel on Smashboards. It doesn't work with all characters, but I know Falco and Snake work for sure. You basically have it correct though.

Here are the specifics: You connect with a dash attack (can be done as dash A as well as dash, any cstick direction) then cancel out mid animation with an Usmash. You can do the Usmash with either the C-stick (easier), or with control stick + A, which is harder, but allows you to charge the smash.

You can also cancel a full dash at any time with an Usmash.

Other methods of moving smashes include after a foxtrot (which is to tap L or R instead of holding it for a full dash). Just tap L/R then wait til the animation is nearly stopped then cstick a smash.

Or cancelled out of a slide. Which is done by doing a full dash, then tapping the opposite direction, wait a split second then cstick smash. Has different timing for different characters.

You can also SideB cancel out a dash. This is useful for characters like Gdorf and Falcon whose SideB covers a lot of ground. Just dash or foxtrot away then sideB back in the opposite direction.

Think there may be a few more. I'll post when I think of them.

[izanagisama]

^That's something different; if you watch the Falco player in the video slips up and does it once, then gets off what he's trying to do.

From the video and explanation it seems like you're canceling out of the dash attack to get the momentum from it, but before the attack portion ever comes out, right? So isn't this essentially a Kara canceled U-smash?:confused:

[Brahma]

Yeah, probably should have watched the vid first.

Does the dash attack have to be done with dash~cstick down or does that just make it easier to hit the up Z after?

[lamewadd]

I believe they call this DLX hit cancel on Smashboards.


That's lame. I support Prime cancels.

[alphazealot]

No. DLX hit canceling is just a dumb name some guy who got to play Falco first came up with (dante xlink or something). Its nothing more really than using IASI frames.

This is a similar idea except your interrupting the animation before it happens instead of shaving off frames at the end of the animation (Falco's dash attack). This technique is actually pretty difficult to do. I've been able to do it consisntently (5+ times in a row) with Wario/Snake but not with other characters yes because I think the timing is different for every character. For the life of me I can't get Diddy to do it or I he can't. I know I can get the dash attack to cancel but it always goes into a grab and not an upsmash and it never has any extra length. I know its canceling because he makes the ape noise that he does during the dash attack that doesn't regularly happen during a grab. Shrug.

Glide tossing with Diddy is much more similar to wavedashing than anything else in the game (and with Peach/others holding items).

now i know how all those snakes do the dashing mortar.

This is just a new/improved version of the dashing mortar.

[quiche]

Ooh I gotta try this.

...seriously.

[Corner-Trap]

Thats cool, I'm trying to do this with the IC's while they're desynched. I'm thinking of making Nana do NeutralB while Popo does a boost smash, it seems like a very good approach.

[Brahma]

No. DLX hit canceling is just a dumb name some guy who got to play Falco first came up with (dante xlink or something). Its nothing more really than using IASI frames.

This is a similar idea except your interrupting the animation before it happens instead of shaving off frames at the end of the animation (Falco's dash attack). This technique is actually pretty difficult to do. I've been able to do it consisntently (5+ times in a row) with Wario/Snake but not with other characters yes because I think the timing is different for every character. For the life of me I can't get Diddy to do it or I he can't. I know I can get the dash attack to cancel but it always goes into a grab and not an upsmash and it never has any extra length. I know its canceling because he makes the ape noise that he does during the dash attack that doesn't regularly happen during a grab. Shrug.

Glide tossing with Diddy is much more similar to wavedashing than anything else in the game (and with Peach/others holding items).


Are you sure it's using IASA frames? If that were true wouldn't you be able to cancel out an empty dash attak? I believe you can only cancel out if it hits.

I just started using glide toss with Diddy, it is indeed awesome for spacing.

[skisonic]

its not the same as DLX hit cancel. only a few chars can do that

[izanagisama]

Are you sure it's using IASA frames? If that were true wouldn't you be able to cancel out an empty dash attak? I believe you can only cancel out if it hits.
Dunno what it says about usage of IASA frames, but to do the DLX cancel nonsense or whatever people are calling it now, I hate these stupid term wars, you do need to connect with the dash attack.

Just played around with this a bit with Snake, timing this seems very easy with him and it gives him another great way to approach. Definitely see this becoming very useful.

[AlphaDragoon02]

I can't seem to do it with Ike. You just dash, hit Down on the C-Stick then immediately hit Up + Z, right?

EDIT: I just did it with Snake...it would appear every character can't do this, since I can't do it with Ike. Guess I don't have to learn it, then.

[ssjbrydon]

i messed with this more today, its pretty much completely useless with most characters. its easy as hell to do with with snake but i heavily doubt this is game breaking or will be abused. its not like your invincible or anything. maybe something else may come out of this trick, but as of now its almost useless...

[4649]

i messed with this more today, its pretty much completely useless with most characters. its easy as hell to do with with snake but i heavily doubt this is game breaking or will be abused. its not like your invincible or anything. maybe something else may come out of this trick, but as of now its almost useless...

you wanna elaborate a tad on how something that lets Sheik do his charged Usmash on you from ACROSS THE WHOLE FUCKING STAGE INSTANTLY on Final Destination is supposedly useless? or something that lets Falco insta-dash ftilt you into Usmash from the same distance? because i'm really not seeing how that's "useless".
this technique is a rushdown tool, it's not meant to be gamebreaking, it's a technique to incorporate into your game.
way to not provide any kind of solid reasoning. :/

[Daemonk]

Cool technique but not enough to balance defensive/offensive play yet. At least its another point for offensive play. Hopefully we'll see more.

[AlphaDragoon02]

Cool technique but not enough to balance defensive/offensive play yet. At least its another point for offensive play. Hopefully we'll see more.

Yeah, too bad it doesn't work with all characters. Then it would be a real bonus to the offensive game.

[KrsJin]

I dig that Falco dash kick into his bicycle kick. Thanks for sharing this 4649 -

Wait though, or these special things, you actually HAVE to use the C-stick? It's not able to be manually done without it?

[ssjbrydon]

you wanna elaborate a tad on how something that lets Sheik do his charged Usmash on you from ACROSS THE WHOLE FUCKING STAGE INSTANTLY on Final Destination is supposedly useless? or something that lets Falco insta-dash ftilt you into Usmash from the same distance? because i'm really not seeing how that's "useless".
this technique is a rushdown tool, it's not meant to be gamebreaking, it's a technique to incorporate into your game.
way to not provide any kind of solid reasoning. :/

as ive said its character specific, i guess u didnt get that. theres only a handful of characters who actually slide when u do this. i want you to pick toon link, lucas or any other character that GOES NOWHERE and tell me how great this technique is, ok?

you are making this seem essential to the characters who can actually use this, when its not. have you tried this in real matches? i did with snake and sonic in real matches, sonics up smash is ass and with snake its situational. i was hit out of it multiple times trying to rushdown with it. you making this sound like you found the "unfly" mode of this game or something, calm down.

[The Damned]

Ooh I gotta try this.

...seriously.

Ugh. The first thing I thought after thinking this was useful was "Crap, Olimar is going to be more annoying now."

I'm trying think who this benefits besides the people shown in the video--although I wonder why Wario was shown since his Up-Smash is kind of iffy.

It seems like it benefits Mario, since his up-smash is one of his attacks that can KO people. I'm not sure if this benefits regular Samus--it sure as hells benefits Zamus--or Captain Falcon, though.

[izanagisama]

I can't seem to do it with Ike. You just dash, hit Down on the C-Stick then immediately hit Up + Z, right?
EDIT: I just did it with Snake...it would appear every character can't do this, since I can't do it with Ike. Guess I don't have to learn it, then.
It works with Ike, timing is strange on it though, and it's not really even worth doing.
Been playing around with it more and it does seem like a lot characters can't do it at all let alone have a useful version of it. Maybe it's just my crappy timing, but the only ones I've found who can do it at all, outside of the ones in the video, are: Capt. Falcon, Lucario, Charizard, Ivysaur, Marth, Ike, Ness, Game&Watch, and Sonic.

And in their cases canceling their dash into U-smash normally seems to slide them just as far or farther forward. Sonic's is alright, nothing like Shiek or Snake's, but it goes farther than when normally canceled.

[The Damned]

Been playing around with it more and it does seem like a lot characters can't do it at all let alone have a useful version of it. Maybe it's just my crappy timing, but the only ones I've found who can do it at all, outside of the ones in the video, are: Capt. Falcon, Lucario, Charizard, Ivysaur, Marth, Ike, Ness, Game&Watch, and Sonic.

We're talking about the sliding part, right? Because it seems like everyone can dash into Up + Z at least. (I wonder why only Up+Smash works from Z...?)

And I find funny that this doesn't benefit any of the character I'm playing around with except for Ness, who doesn't really need that much momentum given the distance in front of him his Yo-yo goes.

[StuartHayden]

Either my timing blows or it doesn't work with De3. :(

[Monte]

Either my timing blows or it doesn't work with De3. :(

oh look what we have here. Mr. lemme just pop into your smash threads to say how much I hate the game, is practicing an AT. You guys smell that? Kinda smells like hypocrite. h8! h8!h8! h8! :mad::arazz::annoy::badboy::devil::nunchuck: :razzy:

[izanagisama]

The Damned, not taking into account whether or not/how much they slid, those were the only others outside of the video that I could get the "Boost Smashing" method(dash>c-stick down>Up+Z immediately after) to work with at all.
Not saying others can't just that those were the only one's I could get it to work with; probably just bad timing on my part if every character is supposed to be able to do this.

[StuartHayden]

oh look what we have here. Mr. lemme just pop into your smash threads to say how much I hate the game, is practicing an AT. You guys smell that? Kinda smells like hypocrite. h8! h8!h8! h8! :mad::arazz::annoy::badboy::devil::nunchuck: :razzy:

:lol:

[DropOff]

Has anyone tried this as Luigi yet? I imagine epic slip-slidan.

I'm GLAD this doesn't seem to work with Ike. Dudes Up-smash hits Overhead, front and back. Theres nothing really to do but try and perfectly time a spot dodge if your cornered.

[Dios <-X->]

I find it amazing that after all these years, sheik is still considered a male.

[Giza]

No. DLX hit canceling is just a dumb name some guy who got to play Falco first came up with (dante xlink or something). Its nothing more really than using IASI frames.Other people actually made topics about it before him. So the fact that the name stuck in anyway shape or form besides for lulz is horrible.

Anyway, this is some cool stuff. Nice find.

[StuartHayden]

I find it amazing that after all these years, sheik is still considered a male.

A hot ass male.

...no homo.

[quiche]

Ugh. The first thing I thought after thinking this was useful was "Crap, Olimar is going to be more annoying now."Hellz yeah! Olimar's dash attack is crap, but his up-smash is godly, so this may really boost* his game.

...seriously.

* = pun intended.

[Brahma]

A hot ass male.

...no homo.

I believe you mean a hot, sexy, female man.

[4649]

as ive said its character specific, i guess u didnt get that. theres only a handful of characters who actually slide when u do this. i want you to pick toon link, lucas or any other character that GOES NOWHERE and tell me how great this technique is, ok?

you are making this seem essential to the characters who can actually use this, when its not. have you tried this in real matches? i did with snake and sonic in real matches, sonics up smash is ass and with snake its situational. i was hit out of it multiple times trying to rushdown with it. you making this sound like you found the "unfly" mode of this game or something, calm down.

for the record, i did not find this, a japanese player did.

and it DOES become essential with some characters if you use it right. it makes Pit downright scary when trying to DI back to the stage in some instances.

it needs to be utilized and explored further, plain and simple.

[quiche]

I can't get the timing to work with Olimar. I don't think it works for him.

...seriously.

[Sonichuman]

I wonder if this works with the hedgehog....

[AlphaDragoon02]

I find it amazing that after all these years, sheik is still considered a male.

I guess reading isn't fundamental for some people. Or playing Ocarina of Time. Or knowing who Princess Zelda is.

[StuartHayden]

I'd do sheik regardless. :pleased:

[Swoops]

How does it work for Ganondorf? Does anyone know what slide distance depends on, traction or whatever? Tech looks to be very promising though, and definitely needs exploring.

And Sheik is just a fuggo...thank god for the mask and ass :p. Of course I haven't seen her without her mask, but I have inside info...it's horrible.

[Tam]

Yeah I don't think I can do it on ROB for some odd reason :( it just doesn't look like he goes that much farther

[izanagisama]

it makes Pit downright scary when trying to DI back to the stage in some instances.


Well, I finally got it to work with Pit, so maybe everyone can do it. Only thing is that his seems to be one of the ones that goes about as far as his normal dash>U-smash.... Am I missing something here?:confused:

Sonichuman, yes it works with him. Doesn't go as far as Shiek or Snake's, but it goes farther than when simply canceling his dash into U-smash.

[KidZero]

Damn that Snake...
Ima have to try this when I get home from school.

[AlphaDragoon02]

I'd do sheik regardless. :pleased:

And if you're heterosexual, that's perfectly fine...since Sheik is a GIRL. :rofl:

It does indeed boggle the mind how some people can't accept it. Nintendo themselves have said it on multiple occasions, both Smash Bros. games with Sheik in it have said it, plus the obvious, "no shit" fact that she's Zelda...and Zelda is most definitely female.

[StuartHayden]

I know sheik is a girl.

what a sweet ass. D:

[white shadow]

Ugh. The first thing I thought after thinking this was useful was "Crap, Snake is going to be more annoying now."


Fixed.

Seriously, as if he wasn't enough of an annoyance.:bluu:



I hope Yoshi can do this, he needs as much as he can get.

[orochizoolander]

I'm lazy. Can someone make a list of everyone who can do it?:wonder:

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

good stuff.

[IzunaDrop]

Well...it's good to see that at least one of my characters can do this. Of course, Wario's up smash isn't great, but it'll work for certain situations, I'm sure.

Snake and Sheik are insane!

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I can't get it with metaknight. Did it all day with snake but yeah. Is it possible with meta?

[Corner-Trap]

Does anyone know if this works for the IC's? I've tried but I can't seem to get it.

[Septimus Prime]

I get this a lot accidentally online. I think it has to do with latency.

[KidZero]

Yeah I don't think I can do it on ROB for some odd reason :( it just doesn't look like he goes that much farther
I've tried it with R.O.B.
Its doesn't work well for him. Niether with Falcon. :bluu:

[Deth-Scyanyde]

There's a couple ov different ways to getting this off...depending on prefernece (sorry if this was posted already). You can either dash/c-stick down/c-stick up+Z or dash/c-stick quarter circle forward to up +Z...

I prefer upwards QC motion...

[Oroman]

It works with G&W, but he doesn't slide as far as most characters.

[mugwhump]

This is quite nice with Link.

I haven't been able to do it once with Sheik though, lol.

[Shadow Ace 50]

Ive done this plenty of times....just didnt know it had a name

[Deth-Scyanyde]

Ive done this plenty of times....just didnt know it had a name

As far as Snake is concerned...it's officially called the 'mortarslide'...

As far as everyone else...I'd jest call it the smashslide...

[NemoDC]

you making this sound like you found the "unfly" mode of this game or something, calm down.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Kwaza]

Lol the mortarslide is awesome, Ive perfected it and it makes snake that much more cheap, haha. Ive had some success with wario as well, but not very effective. Still, its funny when you catch people off guard with snakes grenade.

[lamewadd]

How are these for PT? I can get off a mortar slide like nothing, but can't get off one of these for any of em!

[Zoogstin]

How are these for PT? I can get off a mortar slide like nothing, but can't get off one of these for any of em!

Charizard seems to have one but its not very good because his dash A attack has crappy momentum.

I love doing this with Jigglypuff, his offense is bit more buff now.

[Rebel581]

This is quite nice with Link.

I haven't been able to do it once with Sheik though, lol.

If you try to cancel out the dash with Sheik using up+grab, it's impossible. Sheik's frames for the cancel happen too early to use up+grab, and it will result in just a boost grab for her. You MUST change your controller sheme to L, R, or Z being Attack. My controller has L = Shield, R = Grab, Z = Attack. To boost smash with her, I dash, c-stick down, and then press up+Z at nearly the same time.

Boost smashing can be done with all characters, but is not useful for some. There may be some other characters like Sheik though, where it's impossible to do it using up+grab, and you must use up+attack.

[DropOff]

If you try to cancel out the dash with Sheik using up+grab, it's impossible. Sheik's frames for the cancel happen too early to use up+grab, and it will result in just a boost grab for her. You MUST change your controller sheme to L, R, or Z being Attack. My controller has L = Shield, R = Grab, Z = Attack. To boost smash with her, I dash, c-stick down, and then press up+Z at nearly the same time.

Boost smashing can be done with all characters, but is not useful for some. There may be some other characters like Sheik though, where it's impossible to do it using up+grab, and you must use up+attack.
....

Don't you post on /v/

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I don't get the point of this for most characters except snake. Why not just run up and u.smash.....being that you can do an up smash from a run...

[Doom Squirrel]

Sheik gets a huge boost from this as well. It's just that the timing is so hard.

[Rebel581]

....

Don't you post on /v/

I post on NGG at GameFAQs, which is the GameFAQs equivalent of /v/, but no, I've never even been to 4chan.

[Zoogstin]

I don't get the point of this for most characters except snake. Why not just run up and u.smash.....being that you can do an up smash from a run...

the slide isn't as great for some people compared to a boost smash, plus with a boost smash the start up of the smash begins closer to the beginning of the slide. If you just run up an u.smash, its just that you run and then you begin your u.smash which is a lot slower.

[Solaris1110]

personally I just dash, then upsmash with the control stick. no need for the C-stick or z button though some people may prefer it.

[scum gale 88]

Ive been practicing with some characters, jigglypuff gets quite a boost for her shitty up smash.