So what if this game sucks?

[Zandwich]

Since the beginning, this game has had its critics. Some are people who are saying they wont play it because it isn't like Third Strike or any other excellent Capcom offerings such as Capcom Fighting Evolution. Some people are saying they wont play it because it doesn't have parries, or custom combos, or air blocking.

However, most people are probably going to play it for a while regardless. But, what if this game turns out to be garbage? CFE had its followers for at least a few months and then it (rightfully) died. I don't know anyone who had fun playing CFE and people just seemed to trudge through it because it was the newest Capcom game.

So, what if THIS game sucks? No amount of playing CFE made it good, and if SF4 sucks, no amount of playing it is going to make it not suck. What will you do if SF4 sucks?

[sixtymhz]

Question: "So what if this game sucks?"
Answer: "KOFXII"

[Geese Pants]

Probably not play it anymore..........

[woof]

no ingrid :(

[shoo]

wait for the sequel

[Dark Symphony]

Why this topic? It seems like needless pessimism. Throwing some poll on it to make it look "legit" isn't tricking anyone.

Why devote a topic about a game failing on it's own board? Do people even think about things?

[Infested Jester]

I'll go back to playing my other games.........

[Zandwich]

Why this topic? It seems like needless pessimism. Throwing some poll on it to make it look "legit" isn't tricking anyone.

Why devote a topic about a game failing on it's own board? Do people even think about things?

Its not a topic about the game failing, its a topic about the game sucking, which are two completely different things. The game is going to be a success, it is SF in 3D designed to succeed and sell well. But this has no bearing on whether tourney players will play it at all.

I made this thread after seeing a bunch of old Melee players whine about Brawl and how bad it sucks and talking about what they are going to do. A lot of them are just going to Brawl anyway. The 2d fighter community dumped CFE really quick and I was just wondering if they were as willing to dump SF4 if it turned out to not be very tourney worthy.

[MrQuotes]

thats what SF4:CE is for

[Demon Dash]

Have a wank and get over it...

[Jimmy Bones]

Laughing....
Then i'll play KOFXII.

[fallot]

I'll play it if everyone else does. Having competition in a shit game is still better than Training mode in a great one.

That said I don't think it'll suck after reading the loke-test feedback.

[DevilJin 01]

3rd Strike.

[arstal]

SF4 sucking would likely kill SF in all countries except the US, and might even kill it here. The downside is we'd probably end up with no new fighters that weren't GG-style or VF-style.

[Cronopio]

I would cry like a little girl

Also, Ingrid > you

[COUM]

Its not a topic about the game failing, its a topic about the game sucking, which are two completely different things. The game is going to be a success, it is SF in 3D designed to succeed and sell well. But this has no bearing on whether tourney players will play it at all.

lol yes it does, people are gonna play it regardless of how bad it is. even in the competitive scene, most people these days have no clue what constitutes a good game (see the number of 3s fans who think parrying makes the game deeper for evidence), and when you factor in that many people here are simply fanboys for SF and how long it's been since the last SF game, there's no way this shit isn't getting played competitively.

[b1gazn]

I will support the game in hopes of Capcom actually making a new fighter that is as chaotic and broken as MvC2.

[Dark Symphony]

Its not a topic about the game failing, its a topic about the game sucking, which are two completely different things. The game is going to be a success, it is SF in 3D designed to succeed and sell well. But this has no bearing on whether tourney players will play it at all.

I made this thread after seeing a bunch of old Melee players whine about Brawl and how bad it sucks and talking about what they are going to do. A lot of them are just going to Brawl anyway. The 2d fighter community dumped CFE really quick and I was just wondering if they were as willing to dump SF4 if it turned out to not be very tourney worthy.

A sucky fighting game fails in all instances. Fighting games just don't have the staying power to maintain a following if the hardcores aren't down.

I don't consider Smash a FG. But that's another topic for another day. That aside, that game can live off of it's Nintendo mascots. If SF could do that, we'd all be playing EX. But it can't. I don't even get why this topic would be made when there are plenty of examples of what happens when a new SF/Fighting game comes out and it's not tourney worthy.

Just look to those for your answers.

[arstal]

I view the game sucking horribly in an unfixable way as the game failing. With the competition this year, and the fact that despite the cries of this site, the SF name doesn't mean a whole lot to modern day gamers, the game is going to have to be good in order to succeed. That said, I think it will. Of all the big name fighters this year- this is the one I have the most faith in. (Ironically, I have the least faith in KOFXII)

SF will get play in the US of course- look how much play 3s gets, and I'd say 3s-level quality is about the floor for SF4. (I can't imagine SF4 being less fun then 3s)

[caliagent#3]

(I can't imagine SF4 being less fun then 3s)

I'm pretty sure that's impossible. They'd have to do some serious fucking up.

[Nokato]

Bird Combos?

[Dai_]

Who cares?

[COUM]

SF will get play in the US of course- look how much play 3s gets, and I'd say 3s-level quality is about the floor for SF4. (I can't imagine SF4 being less fun then 3s)

Well you have to realize that the reason 3s is popular competitively is that it's pretty and you don't have to really understand how to play SF to achieve a decent level of competency. Dunno if SF4 will meet those goals. Actually I'm looking forward to seeing all the bitching from 3S players when they realize they lack most of the essential fighting game skills that SF4 will require what with the absence of the parry.

[KnightWarrior]

SF4 CE on the PS3 & 360

Better version

[Pablo_the_Mex]

I'm pretty sure that's impossible. They'd have to do some serious fucking up.

Yes, no way in hell this can be worse.

[GrappleRific]

"So what if this game sucks?"

You'll start another thread called, "This game sucks."

[AneurysmX]

3rd Strike.

damn right.

[4y3paragon]

damn right.
3rd Strike.
I 3rd this

[Kataklysmic]

Wow, so much 3S hating on one page and I don't hear babies crying! That's a first.

[AneurysmX]

LOL... watch, here they come....

oh wait you already posted

[DevilJin 01]

It's just that some people understand that not everyone likes 3S. There's just a lot of people that don't understand that.

[JackHound214D]

KOF12
BlazBlue
3rd Strike
ST


Plenty of stuff still out there...

[Mizuki]

Play STHD, the game of champs.

[Kataklysmic]

LOL... watch, here they come....

oh wait you already posted

Trust me. Once you've grown up, you'll understand.

[Helter Skelter]

I just find it funny that people have only just realized KOF existed.
It took the hate and disappointment of one title to even start caring about another.

Sigh..I dunno besides graphics KOF XII doesn't interest me much.

Anyway, if this game sucks (which I doubt it will), I just won't play it. I don't make an effort to play shit games.

[Dark Symphony]

Well you have to realize that the reason 3s is popular competitively is that it's pretty and you don't have to really understand how to play SF to achieve a decent level of competency. Dunno if SF4 will meet those goals. Actually I'm looking forward to seeing all the bitching from 3S players when they realize they lack most of the essential fighting game skills that SF4 will require what with the absence of the parry.


So this sentiment is just an ongoing dilusion that people cling onto here? Where exactly are these people seeing these parry fests?

Is it the lack of fireball zoning? Doesn't MVC2 have the same problem? Tekken as well? Certain old school SF matchups where a character has a solid answer to the (or just plain better) fireball? And somehow parrying dulls "fundamentals" even though the 3s beasts are the same people beasting in a ton of other games?

How does this work, exactly?

[-Beat-]

So this sentiment is just an ongoing dilusion that people cling onto here? Where exactly are these people seeing these parry fests?

Is it the lack of fireball zoning? Doesn't MVC2 have the same problem? Tekken as well? Certain old school SF matchups where a character has a solid answer to the (or just plain better) fireball? And somehow parrying dulls "fundamentals" even though the 3s beasts are the same people beasting in a ton of other games?

How does this work, exactly?

What I don't understand is the fact that people think that everyone in 3s does these amazing full-parries in every round.

[COUM]

So this sentiment is just an ongoing dilusion that people cling onto here? Where exactly are these people seeing these parry fests?

why do people still ask this? is it really so fucking hard to understand that parry's effect on the game is in what tactics it makes too high risk to even bother trying (i.e. 90% of the game), so people just don't DO shit that would get them parried?

Is it the lack of fireball zoning? Doesn't MVC2 have the same problem?

LOL what? Cable much? Storm much?

Tekken as well?

Like s-kill said in his article about fireballs, Tekken actually has an in-depth up-close combat system to compensate for the absence of ranged fighting. 3s doesn't.

Certain old school SF matchups where a character has a solid answer to the (or just plain better) fireball?

You can still have zoning without fireballs; 3s dumbs down ALL zoning. And besides, that's on a matchup-specific basis, which is fine. Parry affects the whole game in the same way.

And somehow parrying dulls "fundamentals" even though the 3s beasts are the same people beasting in a ton of other games?

How does this work, exactly?

Haha, show me a top-level player that started with 3s that has gone on to be as competitive at another game. It just doesn't happen.

[shubacca]

So this sentiment is just an ongoing dilusion that people cling onto here? Where exactly are these people seeing these parry fests?

Is it the lack of fireball zoning? Doesn't MVC2 have the same problem? Tekken as well? Certain old school SF matchups where a character has a solid answer to the (or just plain better) fireball? And somehow parrying dulls "fundamentals" even though the 3s beasts are the same people beasting in a ton of other games?

How does this work, exactly?


yeah what's up with that. you don't play everyone with the same strategy just cuz there's a parry. i've never seen anyone purposely parry a random super upclose. I love ST and I love 3S. some folks just gotta give 3S a chance. I have a feeling SF4 is gonna bridge the gap between the haters on both sides.

[Tempest_X1]

Wow, so much 3S hating on one page and I don't hear babies crying! That's a first.

That's because I'm sure at least 2 of those guys read the original "What if this game sucks? 3rd Strike" to mean that you would play 3rd Strike if IV sucked.


BTW, my taste in video games is superior to everyone else's taste in video games. No, people can't like other stuff. It's impossible. You all suck.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

why do people still ask this? is it really so fucking hard to understand that parry's effect on the game is in what tactics it makes too high risk to even bother trying (i.e. 90% of the game), so people just don't DO shit that would get them parried?



LOL what? Cable much?



Like s-kill said in his article about fireballs, Tekken actually has an in-depth up-close combat system to compensate for the absence of ranged fighting. 3s doesn't.



You can still have zoning without fireballs; 3s dumbs down ALL zoning. And besides, that's on a matchup-specific basis, which is fine. Parry affects the whole game in the same way.



Haha, show me a top-level player that started with 3s that has gone on to be as competitive at another game. It just doesn't happen.

All you 3s noobs/fanboys please read this post so that you may realize why 3S sucks.

[Tempest_X1]

All you 3s noobs/fanboys please read this post so that you may realize why 3S sucks.

Right. Why make you own opinions when you can just blindly follow someone elses?

[deadfrog]

The answer to your question is the same as the question itself: So what if this game sucks!

(I'm pretty sure that deep down inside you knew the answer to this before you posted this thread.)

Casual players will buy it no matter what because it's undeniably gorgeous.

The competitive fighting game community is infamous for refusing to "upgrade" to the newest update in a cherished series because the previous release is still preferred. None of the regulars on this forum are sick of the titles they play now. If SF4 sucks, we'll keep on playing the titles we've been loving for years.

If anyone really wants a new title, there are half a dozen other stellar-looking titles in development that are hungry for your time and money. That's without even getting into any of the recent releases many of us haven't yet actually played. Which is also without mentioning other types of video games, if you're into that thing. Which is also without mentioning school, work, sports and the great outdoors, friends, family, relationships, and any other hobbies, past-times, and responsibilities one may have on one's plate of life.

If it's not good, we won't play it.

If you want the serious answer, it would probably get one trial/honourary/pity year at Evo and SBO with low attendance, Yoshinori Ono would commit seppuku, and we'd never touch it again.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

Right. Why make you own opinions when you can just blindly follow someone elses?

Opinions held by people who know what they are talking about.

[Gaijinblaze]

lol yes it does, people are gonna play it regardless of how bad it is. even in the competitive scene, most people these days have no clue what constitutes a good game
and the competitive scene you're a part of would be...?

[Artayes]

third strike is by far the best and most competitive fighter out there. parrying is a privilege and it takes a lot of skill to do it and especially do it in top level play. parrying is also not what third strike is all about, combos,spacing, perfect timing, etc is also factored in. you can beat the best parriers out there,you just got to know how. third strike takes time and effort to get good enough at it to compete, only then can you truly appreciate this masterpiece. the characters are also top notch and all are very unique with beautiful game play.

sf 4 may or may not be good, but I am sure everybody wants it to be and everyone will give it a chance.

[ringopan]

parry to combo for life

[Rhio2k]

So, what if THIS game sucks?

If it sucks...man, the sheer amount of bitching and whining on this site alone would make Avenue Q seem as humorous as a global nuclear strike by comparison.

[archetype]

third strike is by far the best and most competitive fighter out there. parrying is a privilege and it takes a lot of skill to do it and especially do it in top level play. parrying is also not what third strike is all about, combos,spacing, perfect timing, etc is also factored in. you can beat the best parriers out there,you just got to know how. third strike takes time and effort to get good enough at it to compete, only then can you truly appreciate this masterpiece. the characters are also top notch and all are very unique with beautiful game play.

sf 4 may or may not be good, but I am sure everybody wants it to be and everyone will give it a chance.

I dunno, it felt like dude put his heart out in this post, shit is hilarious as hell :lol::lol:

[pherai]

The real question is "Does this thread sucks?"

The answer is yes.

[blufang]

No point in wasting time in a game if its shitty. Street fighter is my favorite series all time, but if the game is no fun to play...there is no point in playing it.

[hold dat]

how about having some faith the game wont suck???? revolutionary isnt it??? optimism can be a good thing

its capcom...they gave us classics, lets have some faith. geeeeeeeez

jesus rushdown christ we've waited a good while for this game, lets break the shit like we usually do then we can bash it if it aint good

[Hugo 101]

I will still support Capcom and play this game.

[*Onslaught*]

Then you wait for the Japanese to tell you otherwise, then you'll all flock to it like a bunch of homeless immigrants to a minimum wage job.

[Hedgeshot]

I'm currently more intrested in BlazBlue than SFIV so I'd probably just play that (provided it doesn't suck). I think my expectations dropped a lot as soon as I found out SFIV was 2.5D. If it's good, I'll play it. If it sucks, it will get kicked to the curb like soul calibur 3 did.

[Hellion]

What will you do if SF4 sucks?

Rape your first born.

[LoyalistRevolt]

Question: "So what if this game sucks?"
Answer: "KOFXII"

I second that also Samurai showdown is coming out.

[SlothHands]

3s isn't for pussies to like.

but yea 3s and the other SF games before it are just totally different beasts. Some like one more than the other. No need to diss either one. I happen to like both for what they are but find 3s to have a wider gap between shitty players and great players. Maybe this is why SFIV has free ultras to shitty players and no parry system?

[TS]

So this sentiment is just an ongoing dilusion that people cling onto here? Where exactly are these people seeing these parry fests?
That's not what's being said.

Is it the lack of fireball zoning? Doesn't MVC2 have the same problem?
No.

Certain old school SF matchups where a character has a solid answer to the (or just plain better) fireball?
No.
...even though the 3s beasts are the same people beasting in a ton of other games?
No.


But hey, everybody, hear me out: We need a parry debate forum. I'm tired of linking to old threads. Let's just have a subforum where all people talk about is fucking parrying and why it is/isn't retarded. This issue keeps coming up, because we keep getting new members who haven't seen any of the half-dozen older threads on the issue.


I think this could work.

[Rioting Soul]

I'll go back to trying to convince my friends to play TMNTTF.

[DARKHOKAGE]

3rd Strike.

QFT :pray:

[AdverseSolutions]

Question: "So what if this game sucks?"
Answer: "KOFXII"

whoops!

thread was over at 2nd post

[Superking]

It's Street Fighter 4!

[Master Chibi]

Who cares?

If the game really is unplayable (impossible) then I've got AH2 to go to. Or MB:AA. Or Blazeblue. Or T6. Or KoF 12. Or Fate : Unlimited Codes, or fucking whatever. I'm sure as hell not holding my breath on the matter though.

[clue2025]

Opinions held by people who know what they are talking about.

If you know everything then why are you posting on here and not teaching at a college or some shit or winning major tournaments?

Anyways

If the game sucks, just play the old ones and try all the other ones that are coming out. I mean, theres what? 5 or 6 fighting games coming out this year maybe more or less but I'm sure each game will get its followers whether they "suck" or not, because remember "sucking" is up to the individual.

[COUM]

and the competitive scene you're a part of would be...?

owning noobs. i own noobs. competitively.

[Zaelar]

SF4 HD remix.

Both ways.

[MiLky]

I'll go back to trying to convince my friends to play TMNTTF.

I have friends that would still play that with me, they are just in other states :(

They should make a sequel to that with online play, I'm serious.

[The Mullah]

owning noobs. i own noobs. competitively.

lol.

Gaijinblaze: did you expect a serious answer? Do you need to be a particpant in something to be able to conduct a valid analysis of it? Of course not.

[Lammbock]

owning noobs. i own noobs. competitively.

Well since you probably can't compete with anyone playing a game longer than 2 days yes, you own noobs.

[Kataklysmic]

lol.

Gaijinblaze: did you expect a serious answer? Do you need to be a particpant in something to be able to conduct a valid analysis of it? Of course not.

Oh, for self-titled competitors who operate on a hive mind, you apparently do. My, what irony.

[COUM]

Well since you probably can't compete with anyone playing a game longer than 2 days yes, you own noobs.

sick burn dude

[TVG]

19 22.35%
24 28.24%
11 12.94%
47 55.29%

Am i terrible at math or is something fucked up here? 22+28+12+55=117% :/

[Hydro-kinesis]

Forget the poll, what will you do if this thread stays open FOREVER. GAH!

I can't even see the point of discussing if the game sucks... I mean, it's not even out yet. Have a little optimism. . . hard for some of us I know, but please...

OP: What will you do if the game is AWESOME???

Now that's a better thread.

[AneurysmX]

lol.

Gaijinblaze: did you expect a serious answer? Do you need to be a particpant in something to be able to conduct a valid analysis of it? Of course not.


So why do ppl with a join date of Feb 2008 get picked on all the time? whats the difference?

[Pablo_the_Mex]

If you know everything then why are you posting on here and not teaching at a college or some shit or winning major tournaments?



That is funny, because I am sure the worst players from my area would wreck you in the game of your choosing.

Bottom line is, 3rd strike is garbage.

[pherai]

19 22.35%
24 28.24%
11 12.94%
47 55.29%

Am i terrible at math or is something fucked up here? 22+28+12+55=117% :/

Haha yeah wtf? Vbulletin is eff'd up

[arstal]

19 22.35%
24 28.24%
11 12.94%
47 55.29%

Am i terrible at math or is something fucked up here? 22+28+12+55=117% :/

Some people picked 2+ choices

[clue2025]

That is funny, because I am sure the worst players from my area would wreck you in the game of your choosing.

Bottom line is, 3rd strike is garbage.

I never said I was good, you were the one claiming that your opinion and anyone's you agree with are the only ones that matter and therefor should be taken as fact. I know people that say ST is garbage and is just an outdated game. I play it occasionally for what it is but I won't make it my main game. I don't like it enough. Am I sitting here trashing it? No. Do I claim it to be garbage then say "I know what I'm talking about, its shit and you have no say or authority to challenge me because you disagree." You want to talk about a garbage fighting game, go play Fighting Vipers or Wu-Tang clan. 3rd strike is a good game, it takes more than button mashing and spamming hadous to win. I guess that since ST strategies don't work as well in it though makes it garbage :lame:

[CptMunta]

wait for the sequel

I'd just prey (quite possibly in vain) that they'd take the time and money to fix their mistakes.

If by some bizarre twist of fate SF 4 and HD Remix suck at least I would have spent only $700NZ on blue ray player. :nunchuck:

[AneurysmX]

I never said I was good, you were the one claiming that your opinion and anyone's you agree with are the only ones that matter and therefor should be taken as fact. I know people that say ST is garbage and is just an outdated game. I play it occasionally for what it is but I won't make it my main game. I don't like it enough. Am I sitting here trashing it? No. Do I claim it to be garbage then say "I know what I'm talking about, its shit and you have no say or authority to challenge me because you disagree." You want to talk about a garbage fighting game, go play Fighting Vipers or Wu-Tang clan. 3rd strike is a good game, it takes more than button mashing and spamming hadous to win. I guess that since ST strategies don't work as well in it though makes it garbage :lame:

Stop arguing with him, he'll just call you a fanboy and you'll just call him a scrub. This fight will never end.

[COUM]

I never said I was good, you were the one claiming that your opinion and anyone's you agree with are the only ones that matter and therefor should be taken as fact. I know people that say ST is garbage and is just an outdated game. I play it occasionally for what it is but I won't make it my main game. I don't like it enough. Am I sitting here trashing it? No. Do I claim it to be garbage then say "I know what I'm talking about, its shit and you have no say or authority to challenge me because you disagree." You want to talk about a garbage fighting game, go play Fighting Vipers or Wu-Tang clan. 3rd strike is a good game, it takes more than button mashing and spamming hadous to win. I guess that since ST strategies don't work as well in it though makes it garbage :lame:

ST strategies do work in it though; just a tiny subset of them, because so many of them are rendered inviable due to the parry. ST is the more strategically varied game.

[rastaman]

played ST today...game fucking sucks SF4 better have dashing

people who still think ST >3s need to go back to the cum sack they came from.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

played ST today...game fucking sucks SF4 better have dashing

Man, I don't even have to clown on this guy, he already did it for me!

[rastaman]

3s isn't for pussies to like.

but yea 3s and the other SF games before it are just totally different beasts. Some like one more than the other. No need to diss either one. I happen to like both for what they are but find 3s to have a wider gap between shitty players and great players. Maybe this is why SFIV has free ultras to shitty players and no parry system?

LMFAO

[SlothHands]

Opinions held by people who know what they are talking about.

The same guy that said UOH's are the same thing as throwing?

[rastaman]

Man, I don't even have to clown on this guy, he already did it for me!

.... 3s type dashing thx <3

[COUM]

The same guy that said UOH's are the same thing as throwing?

i didnt say that actually

[Tempest_X1]

ST strategies do work in it though; just a tiny subset of them, because so many of them are rendered inviable due to the parry. ST is the more strategically varied game.

lol, strategy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6s5Qq_VbKU).

[*Onslaught*]

lol, strategy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6s5Qq_VbKU).

All that video shows is that there is strategy.

[Tempest_X1]

All that video shows is that there is strategy.

And that strategy is, "Spam fireballs with Sagat." That's some Sun Tzu stuff right there.

[COUM]

lol, strategy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6s5Qq_VbKU).

lol did you even WATCH that video or did you just hurry to find the first sagat vs sagat video you could? one of them isn't even o.sagat, and the o.sagat player loses as soon as taira switches to his main character. there's barely even any tiger shot spam in that video! :lol: and besides, just because repeated tiger shots are boring to watch, doesn't mean it's absent of strategy. chun vs. chun mirrors in 3s are about 10 times more moronic.

[Tempest_X1]

Bad example aside, the simple fact that fireball spamming is a viable strategy that gets people into tournament level play is just not right. And "moronic" is a completely subjective term. I find almost all high level play vids to be boring and moronic, it doesn't make ST any more strategic than 3S.

I will admit that the parry completely messes with zoning, but I happen to like it. Then again I am nowhere near a tourny level player in 3S or any game. If admitting that makes everybody feel a little less like castrating me with a dull spoon for liking 3S then so be it.

Back on topic:
KOF XII

[COUM]

lol 'fireball spamming' is not a viable strategy dude. you have to be very smart to keep someone out with fireballs for any extended period of time. if you think it's so easy let's see you win some tournaments by mindlessly throwing fireballs. hell, if you want to pick on easy-mode characters, vega and chun are both way easier to play than sagat and neither really relies on fireballs at all.

[rastaman]

lol, strategy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6s5Qq_VbKU).

AMEN this is what ST is about offensive strategem that is called defense :pray::pray::pray::pray::pray:

[COUM]

lol what kind of mental midget do you have to be to think that 'defense' only means 'blocking a lot'

congrats rastaman, if nothing else youre breaking new ground by being the only person ever who actually wants more turtling in fighting games

[Shungokustasu]

Then you wait for the Japanese to tell you otherwise, then you'll all flock to it like a bunch of homeless immigrants to a minimum wage job.
Was that necassry? I still have family in Cuba trying to come here...

[KayinNasaki]

I happen to like both for what they are but find 3s to have a wider gap between shitty players and great players.

Thats just because more scrubs play 3s that have no idea what they're doing. The low level of 3s play is just awful. Compare that to ST where a lot of the people playing it have been playing it for eternity. Folks either pick up their game are wash out pretty quick.


lol, strategy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6s5Qq_VbKU).

That was actually a very entertaining match and I thank you for posting it!

Bad example aside, the simple fact that fireball spamming is a viable strategy that gets people into tournament level play is just not right.

Fireball traps are tricky as hell and involve a good deal of prediction. They also require you to earn the proper position to establish a strong trap. If you don't know what you're doing and throw fireballs aimlessly, someones just going to do a deep jump-in and rape your life away.

[SlothHands]

Thats just because more scrubs play 3s that have no idea what they're doing.

No it's because 3s takes more skills and parries alienate the shitty predictable scrubs who cannot mix it up.

[KayinNasaki]

No it's because 3s takes more skills and parries alienate the shitty predictable scrubs who cannot mix it up.

Tell that to all those former ST guys who play an excellent game of 3s. Say that to all zero of the guys who started in 3s and moved elsewhere. Having one option that can potentially be the solution to every situation is not a bit of design that promotes "high skill". If I wanted to play a guessing game, I'd play Pokemon.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

No it's because 3s takes more skills and parries alienate the shitty predictable scrubs who cannot mix it up.

So knocking someone down and playing the equivalent of rock, paper, scissors is somehow correlated with skill?

See, that is exactly why 3S get shat on constantly. The game completely fucks up what are SF essentials.

[KayinNasaki]

The 3s player parry "myth" seems to be..

"If I know what he's going to do, I should be able to counter"

This ignores all preceding mistakes that would have came up to put the player in a situation where he can't counter. Having a solution to every problem at every time does not encourage stratagy because it does not create the dynamic of strong and weak positions. It especiallyu doesn't help when theres a solution thats almost always "Parry into combo->Super".

All positions in 3rd Strike are usually only one step away from neutral, as the tide can shift instantly with a parry. In ST, one can get setup into traps and extremely weak positions that take multiple steps to escape. When someone does repeated, predictable stuff and your only good option gets you a jump in closer to them, well... It's because you fucked up. You got set up. Hell, the opponent possibly gave up combo damage or took some hits to lure you into the corner.

Theres a few situations like this in 3s (mostly with the upper/mid characters, ironicly), while there is TONS is situations like these in ST.

[Helter Skelter]

SF essentials.
There is a slight problem with this comment.
Street Fighter doesn't and doesn't need to play too similar to it's previous incarnation.

There are 3 Street Fighter games that players pay the most attention to:

Super Street Fighter II Turbo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_PXlwvlB4o)
Street Fighter Zero 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RS7wfLPs5w)
Street Fighter III 3rd Strike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbAL_822D4o)

None of those game play very similar to each other at all.
Do they have to? No, not really.


Anyway, I don't think Street Fighter IV will suck that badly.

[DeathScythe]

Reading this thread gave me a headache. A lot of you guys aren't really pretending to be stupid, are you?

[The Epidemic]

3rd Strike.

pretty much.:smile:

[SNAAAAKE]

Id still play cvs2 :china:

[Humbag]

Guys...the horse....it's dead.

STOP FUCKING BEATING IT STILL.

[SlothHands]

So knocking someone down and playing the equivalent of rock, paper, scissors is somehow correlated with skill? .


http://www.worldrps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=33

[Pablo_the_Mex]

http://www.worldrps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=33

So, I guess you really like guessing.

[Shin_Akuma_]

So, what if THIS game sucks? No amount of playing CFE made it good, and if SF4 sucks, no amount of playing it is going to make it not suck. What will you do if SF4 sucks?

BLASPHEMY!!! Lol, psych. If it's crap I'll still play just not as serious as 3S.

[SlothHands]

So, I guess you really like guessing.

No I actually had a long post ready but decided to not post it because like others said, dead horse, parry threads etc. It'll probably keep going in circles.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

No I actually had a long post ready but decided to not post it because like others said, dead horse, parry threads etc. It'll probably keep going in circles.

Word, that is why I keep my posts farily short.

Alright guys, good game everyone. These are always fun.

[Dander]

parrys are for morons. Watch my more recent matches in 3s and you'll notice I parry rarely or not at all and I still think I'm pretty good.

[Cronopio]

http://www.worldrps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=33

competitive RPS

What the fuck.

[Remix1213]

I think the future of fighting games is on the line if this fails cause Street Fighter IMO represents all fighting games as its the most known. I mean who doesnt know about street fighter honestly? There have been way to many rehashes and versions not to...

[saberwolf]

It can't be as broken as MVC2 can it?:pray::pray:

[Knapstar]

So knocking someone down and playing the equivalent of rock, paper, scissors is somehow correlated with skill?

See, that is exactly why 3S get shat on constantly. The game completely fucks up what are SF essentials.

That is the beauty of the game it provides essential change of pace and if people hate parrying so much then mix up your moves some so they aren't parried as much. 3s is an excellent game overall and the balance in the game is great. The parrying balances out the aggressive game play overall making for a superior game overall.

[kaB00M]

Was that necassry? I still have family in Cuba trying to come here...

Why do they want to go to shitty USA, anyway???
In Cuba you have free food, free medecine, free beer and big asses. What else do you need?

[Shin_Akuma_]

^^^ The Truth!!!

[Artayes]

Bottom line is, I'm garbage.

you shouldn't say things like that about yourself, but if you say so.
and third strike owns your ass!

[Okazaki III]

Since the beginning, this game has had its critics. Some are people who are saying they wont play it because it isn't like Third Strike or any other excellent Capcom offerings such as Capcom Fighting Evolution. Some people are saying they wont play it because it doesn't have parries, or custom combos, or air blocking.

However, most people are probably going to play it for a while regardless. But, what if this game turns out to be garbage? CFE had its followers for at least a few months and then it (rightfully) died. I don't know anyone who had fun playing CFE and people just seemed to trudge through it because it was the newest Capcom game.

So, what if THIS game sucks? No amount of playing CFE made it good, and if SF4 sucks, no amount of playing it is going to make it not suck. What will you do if SF4 sucks?

Shut your fucking mouth bitch. Fucking teabag whore.


ps: edit ninja : I gave you neg rep with the follwoing mesage: Fucking die yuou nazi fuck.

Edit two: fuck you

Edit three: you're an idiot

Edit fuckong four: Your fucking mum smells of teenage cheese

Edit five: fuckyour poll

[DevilJin 01]

I like how I come back to this thread and it has inevitably turned into another SF2 vs. SF3 thread. I wish a mod would re name any topic that gets into a SF2 vs. SF3 debate. SF2 vs. SF3 suits the name of this thread sooooo much better.

Any ways...guessing games FTW.

[TS]

There is a slight problem with this comment.
Street Fighter doesn't and doesn't need to play too similar to it's previous incarnation.

There are 3 Street Fighter games that players pay the most attention to:

Super Street Fighter II Turbo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_PXlwvlB4o)
Street Fighter Zero 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RS7wfLPs5w)
Street Fighter III 3rd Strike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbAL_822D4o)

None of those game play very similar to each other at all.
Do they have to? No, not really.


Anyway, I don't think Street Fighter IV will suck that badly.

That is not Super Turbo. That is AE. More specifically a CE Guile mirror match. It's weird that you'd choose that match to represent ST...I think somebody's a little biased.
Reading this thread gave me a headache. A lot of you guys aren't really pretending to be stupid, are you?
Some of them are, but some of them aren't. Sad, really.

Bad example aside, the simple fact that fireball spamming is a viable strategy that gets people into tournament level play is just not right.

By that reasoning, all you have to do to be good at 3S is be able to parry. And that's even easier, you just tap forward or down!
And "moronic" is a completely subjective term. I find almost all high level play vids to be boring and moronic...
This explains a lot.

Back on topic:
KOF XII
As does this.

OOOOOHHHH BURN. BURN ON KOF PLAYERS HAHAHA.


...


No it's because 3s takes more skills and parries alienate the shitty predictable scrubs who cannot mix it up.
+That is the beauty of the game it provides essential change of pace and if people hate parrying so much then mix up your moves some so they aren't parried as much. 3s is an excellent game overall and the balance in the game is great. The parrying balances out the aggressive game play overall making for a superior game overall.=

You mix up because you HAVE to, yadda yadda yadda, parrying is supposed to keep you from being able to abuse the same thing over and over but doesn't really work, etc, has wider effects on gameplay and so on, and further more, if the players here played another game other than 3S as their main game or had another one they were equally serious about, it would be much more apparent ~~~ yap yap yap yap.


See here:
The 3s player parry "myth" seems to be..

"If I know what he's going to do, I should be able to counter"

This ignores all preceding mistakes that would have came up to put the player in a situation where he can't counter. Having a solution to every problem at every time does not encourage stratagy because it does not create the dynamic of strong and weak positions. It especiallyu doesn't help when theres a solution thats almost always "Parry into combo->Super".

All positions in 3rd Strike are usually only one step away from neutral, as the tide can shift instantly with a parry. In ST, one can get setup into traps and extremely weak positions that take multiple steps to escape. When someone does repeated, predictable stuff and your only good option gets you a jump in closer to them, well... It's because you fucked up. You got set up. Hell, the opponent possibly gave up combo damage or took some hits to lure you into the corner.

Theres a few situations like this in 3s (mostly with the upper/mid characters, ironicly), while there is TONS is situations like these in ST.

edit: since this thread might be closed in the next few days (what happened to keeping the newer Parry thread open so people wouldn't keep making new ones?), here is some required reading:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=99742 (sample post) (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2652485&postcount=91)
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=129357 (sample post (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3801050&postcount=240))
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=4517362(sample post) (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4516699&postcount=329)

(hint: keep reading after you start to see posts by people you disagree with)

[Renesis_13]

I'll keep on playing 3s EVEN if SFIV succeeds (which doesn't mean I won't play IV), I'm more interested in KOFXII anyways.

[4neqs]

Well...option 1.

Then there's always MAHVEL BABEE, doesn't get old for me.

[AneurysmX]

I like how I come back to this thread and it has inevitably turned into another SF2 vs. SF3 thread. I wish a mod would re name any topic that gets into a SF2 vs. SF3 debate. SF2 vs. SF3 suits the name of this thread sooooo much better.

Any ways...guessing games FTW.

I just dont get why ppl cant accept that its 2 different games.

[Renesis_13]

I just dont get why ppl cant accept that its 2 different games.


QFT, different games, different skills needed to play, different tastes, plain and simple.

[Helter Skelter]

That is not Super Turbo. That is AE. More specifically a CE Guile mirror match. It's weird that you'd choose that match to represent ST...I think somebody's a little biased.

Biased? No. Actually I was attempting to highlight the extremities of each Street Fighter game.
Why is it weird? I chose matches for the two other games with intense situtaions and results.

You kinda missed the point of that post.
Oh well..

[hecz]

All you 3s noobs/fanboys please read this post so that you may realize why 3S sucks.

Every post u make is about 3s blows 3s farts, dude WE KNOW ALREADY THAT U DONT

LIKE IT!!! AND THAT U LOOOOOVE SF2!!

I dont post much but man this guy pisses me off!!!

And I lke all street fighters so im not a 3s whore!

But this guy man....ah whatever.

[terracotta]

So knocking someone down and playing the equivalent of rock, paper, scissors is somehow correlated with skill?

See, that is exactly why 3S get shat on constantly. The game completely fucks up what are SF essentials.

no, it fucks up SF2 essentials. and on the first comment - this is a bit like saying successful professional poker players are just lucky a lot of the time.

anyway i agree with a lot of the points you've made so far, but probably not these two.

[JackTenrac!]

You'll still be playing it. You can not escape WRONG DEATH.

[Helter Skelter]

no, it fucks up SF2 essentials.

Once more people start realizing this, there will be much less to complain about.....Hopefully.

[COUM]

every single sf game is based on sf2 essentials, the various systems of the game in question just invalidate more or less of them to varying degrees.

3s just happens to eliminate the vast majority of them, but there are no new skills in 3s that are not rewarded in sf2.

[VManOfMana]

Bad example aside, the simple fact that fireball spamming is a viable strategy that gets people into tournament level play is just not right. And "moronic" is a completely subjective term. I find almost all high level play vids to be boring and moronic, it doesn't make ST any more strategic than 3S.


This paragraph clearly illustrates that you do not understand how fireball strategies work in ST. What you see in Sagat and Guile matches is not fireball spamming, and there is a whole strategy between changing the timing and speed of the fireballs. Doesn't make it any more entertaining to watch, but disqualifying them as moronic is an aberration.

I play Chun Li. One of Chun Li's worst matchups is O. Sagat. However, I am not afraid of playing versus O. Sagat unless we are talking John Choi or Justin Wong - overy other O. Sagat player doesn't know how to fireball correctly. Fireball spamming won't get you anywhere; you become predicable and all you do is ask for a jump-in combo.

Super Turbo's beauty is in its apparent simplicity. On paper the game is exteremely simple, but the lack of universal options force you to understand all the tools your character has and how each matchup works. There is no equalizer.

Disclaimer: I used to play 3S as well.

[mythicExile]

i'll be honest i didnt know what grudingly meant so i picked the last option

[Ephidel]

Seems like a pretty straightforward question, if it sucks then it sucks. Doesn't mean I won't play, I just won't play as much.

[Tempest_X1]

This paragraph clearly illustrates that you do not understand how fireball strategies work in ST.

I'll be the first to admit that. My skills with even my most comfortable fighters falls somewhere between "scrub" and "Meh, OK", and in all honesty that is most likely the reason I prefer 3s over 2. For me and my friends of that approximate skill level, the simplicity of ST makes it a bit boring, while 3s is appealing to us because while we know the parry system, we are nowhere near the level where it becomes an apparent flaw. If we were tournament level players I'm sure that sentiment would flip.

Back on topic, if SF4 actually ends up being bad, the fighting game community could not have a better selection of games to choose from this year, especially if you like both 2D and 3D fighters (And doujin games if you plan on playing Soul Calibur 4 :rolleyes:)

[arstal]

The only thing that will stop SF2 vs SF3 wars is for SF4 to blow both games out of the water. Hopefully it does that. It's been too long since there has been a new fighter that both

a) doesn't suck and
b) enough people actually play it

SF4 could fit the bill in the US.

[HARD BREAD]

So what if this game sucks.....never mind this thread is stoopid :looney:

[Pablo_the_Mex]

Every post u make is about 3s blows 3s farts, dude WE KNOW ALREADY THAT U DONT

LIKE IT!!! AND THAT U LOOOOOVE SF2!!

I dont post much but man this guy pisses me off!!!

And I lke all street fighters so im not a 3s whore!

But this guy man....ah whatever.

Man, if that isn't hate I don't know what is. I'll shit on 3S all day errr day and there is nothing you can do about it. Just play what you like, I know I do.

no, it fucks up SF2 essentials. and on the first comment - this is a bit like saying successful professional poker players are just lucky a lot of the time.

anyway i agree with a lot of the points you've made so far, but probably not these two.

You are correct. I can totally understand Capcom moving the game in a new direction with the III series. However, by doing so the SFII essentials I know and love were flipped upside down. As a result, IMO, the game degenerates into a mess that I do not enjoy playing much.

This is coming from someone who plays every new game I can get my hands on. Just like I played 3S when it came out, I will also play SFIV. I like my old games, but I would be lying if I told you I don't crave new, quality fighting games.

[HARD BREAD]

Man, if that isn't hate I don't know what is. I'll shit on 3S all day errr day and there is nothing you can do about it. Just play what you like, I know I do.



You are correct. I can totally understand Capcom moving the game in a new direction with the III series. However, by doing so the SFII essentials I know and love were flipped upside down. As a result, IMO, the game degenerates into a mess that I do not enjoy playing much.

This is coming from someone who plays every new game I can get my hands on. Just like I played 3S when it came out, I will also play SFIV. I like my old games, but I would be lying if I told you I don't crave new, quality fighting games.

alright after this the ST>3S and vice versa bitching should be over...im tired of seeing this shit...everyone knows they're gonna play SFIV at lest once before they pass judgement....if you dont like any game dont play it...simple as that; niggas need to stop bleedin out they hot pockets...

[Dark Symphony]

why do people still ask this? is it really so fucking hard to understand that parry's effect on the game is in what tactics it makes too high risk to even bother trying (i.e. 90% of the game), so people just don't DO shit that would get them parried?



LOL what? Cable much? Storm much?



Like s-kill said in his article about fireballs, Tekken actually has an in-depth up-close combat system to compensate for the absence of ranged fighting. 3s doesn't.



You can still have zoning without fireballs; 3s dumbs down ALL zoning. And besides, that's on a matchup-specific basis, which is fine. Parry affects the whole game in the same way.



Haha, show me a top-level player that started with 3s that has gone on to be as competitive at another game. It just doesn't happen.



MVC2's zoning is totally different from the SF2 zoning you say is missing from SF3 (which it is). Do I think it's in SF3? No. I don't. Long range projectiles don't function the same. OH NO! I don't think that that particular strat is integral to having a good game. You seem to think so while indirectly admitting that's not the case by referencing Tekken.

You think SF3 doesn't have a good up-close game. I disagree. you might not like it. I do. Saying, essentially, that parrying changes the risk/rewards of a game isn't saying jack. IN Marvel, I can't risk HITTING someone with the heart of darkness super with blackheart because I can eat AHVB's. I can't risk a mistimed assist when Cable is hanging out.

Comparing Marvels zoning to SF2 is... kinda ridiculous. And while you're busy whining that you can't throw fireballs in SF3 like you do in SF2, i'm booting up SF2T and having fun messing with Ryu's fireball trap. Then, i'm loading up 3s and enjoying taking advantage of human reaction times and reflexes by tossing mid ranges EX hadoukens. Crap! I have to do different things in different games!

Yes.. parry makes nothing full proof and attaches some risk to a lot of things where there normally wouldn't. You can state a case both ways on that. Sure, an intermediate player can counter an experts awesome high priority long range attack that his character otherwise wouldn't have an answer to. But then again, the expert can do the same and also use his expertise to exploit that possibility.

So yeah... parrying keeps peoople from doing things but it also gives them something to bait as well.

Sounds like... any other game to me.

OK, I typed too much on that. I'm sure this has all been said before.

I at the fact that i'm challenged to find someone who was bred on 3s and went on to beast in other games. I like the requisites there. The ones that conveniently disqualify any top player who beasted in other games before 3s (which is likely since, you know... games like ST came out BEFORE it). Wow.. mad ignorance feigned.

[Shin00bi]

"grudgingly" would like a spelling with you. :woot:

[tl613]

I got to play it today at the Capcom US headquarters in San Mateo. It plays a lot like 3S except faster. From the 2 hours I got to play it in my opinion it's pretty good, a lot better than I expected it to be.

[Dark Symphony]

lol 'fireball spamming' is not a viable strategy dude. you have to be very smart to keep someone out with fireballs for any extended period of time. if you think it's so easy let's see you win some tournaments by mindlessly throwing fireballs. hell, if you want to pick on easy-mode characters, vega and chun are both way easier to play than sagat and neither really relies on fireballs at all.


But you can't enter some tournament and mindlessly parry everything and win, since it's SO easy mode and such the means to victory?

Seems to me that there's nothing wrong with either game. Just that if someone feels like they have a preference, they can't just say it. Instead, the game they do not prefer has to be deficient.

People can't just say "I prefer ST's style of gameplay." No. 3s has to have all these issues that aren't really issues. Just differences.

People can't just say "I prefer 3s." No.. ST as to be boring and have no dashing and be all about being cheap with fireballs... (even though I always see Balrog win). Can't just say "I don't prefer that type of fighting."

Funny.

[Dark Symphony]

Tell that to all those former ST guys who play an excellent game of 3s. Say that to all zero of the guys who started in 3s and moved elsewhere. Having one option that can potentially be the solution to every situation is not a bit of design that promotes "high skill". If I wanted to play a guessing game, I'd play Pokemon.


THIS has to be a joke post. This has to be....

Are people really saying this? That ST players move on to dominate in 3s but not the other way around?

Do they REALLY blame the fundamentals of 3rd Strike and not, you know, the order that the games came out?

[Sasmasta]

I will still play Street Fighter IV.

[Eckostyle]

Keep playing 3s while the FOUR cabinet gathers dust, and wait for Street Fighter 4: Twin Clash or whatever they'll call it.

[AneurysmX]

THIS has to be a joke post. This has to be....

Are people really saying this? That ST players move on to dominate in 3s but not the other way around?

Do they REALLY blame the fundamentals of 3rd Strike and not, you know, the order that the games came out?

I duno why but, I have this sudden urge to play some StreetFighter 1.

[SuicidalGrandpa]

Going to buy it anyway. For Christ's sake, they actually released a Street Fighter IV. Even if it sucks, I've still gotta show my support for the series in hopes that my small contribution and that of those around me will sway them to continue making more games.

[Gaijinblaze]

snip
You're wasting your time. SRK needs theory or the majority of posters would just be nobodies with nothing to say. Theory gives them purpose. It's disappointing that otherwise good posters (in some cases) end up lowering themselves to that clueless level where fighting games are played on some abstract and mechanical level. Their loss I guess.

There are too many people that I just feel bad for at this point where I can't do much else but laugh. :rofl:

And uh... Blazblue, and whatever games I'm playing now. Possibly even STHD. It's not looking good for KoF XII because the arcade owner here probably doesn't think there's enough of a scene to justify that purchase.

[Hedgeshot]

But you can't enter some tournament and mindlessly parry everything and win, since it's SO easy mode and such the means to victory?

Seems to me that there's nothing wrong with either game. Just that if someone feels like they have a preference, they can't just say it. Instead, the game they do not prefer has to be deficient.

People can't just say "I prefer ST's style of gameplay." No. 3s has to have all these issues that aren't really issues. Just differences.

People can't just say "I prefer 3s." No.. ST as to be boring and have no dashing and be all about being cheap with fireballs... (even though I always see Balrog win). Can't just say "I don't prefer that type of fighting."

Funny.

I think some of the ST players posting here have trouble admitting there is any amount of randomness in their game of choice. In reality, you can only do so much on reaction. Educated guesses happen in every fighting game. Educated being the keyword here. The second you carry out any action under the assumption that the opposition will also behave in a certain way, you are making a guess.

It's like you said, you can't randomly try parrying every move thrown at you in 3S and win anymore than you can randomly throw fireballs in ST and win. What a lot of ST players really don't like about parrying is that you can parry fireballs with ease and how this changes zoning (note I did not say removes). What a lot of 3s players don't like about ST is that fireballs are very very effective in zoning. It really is just preference.

[alpharudy]

play some more brawl and wait for the sequel

[Kataklysmic]

So yeah... parrying keeps peoople from doing things but it also gives them something to bait as well.

Sounds like... any other game to me.

No one's arguing that guessing is a part of any game. The problem is that guessing is all 3S boils down to. It just doesn't stop. No matter which character you choose, you're always forced to decide on a parry, baiting a parry or throwing. The characters are badly hampered this way, and that's why ST vets don't like it.

On a side note, I find it very amusing that some immature prick who's equally insignificant as the rest of us would claim you're a mere theorist if you don't like 3S, regardless of validity in what's being said.

[Hedgeshot]

No one's arguing that guessing is a part of any game. The problem is that guessing is all 3S boils down to. It just doesn't stop. No matter which character you choose, you're always forced to decide on a parry, baiting a parry or throwing.

I don't know about that. If it really were that much of a guessing game, you wouldn't see certain players consistently placing well.

[Gaijinblaze]

On a side note, I find it very amusing that some immature prick who's equally insignificant as the rest of us would claim you're a mere theorist if you don't like 3S, regardless of validity in what's being said.
That's a good one. :rofl: Believe me, right now I don't even care who's good or bad. As long as someone legitimately supports their competitive scene, they're worth something as far as I'm concerned. Too bad that doesn't apply to the bulk of theory scrubs who are apparently on the verge of dominating SRK. Guess I'm just some weirdo who thought this was a tournament-driven site for competitive players. Wait, those people "don't even know what constitutes a good fighting game." How will they ever survive now? Makes sense that they're being replaced. :rolleyes:

Haha, yeah I care if people don't like 3S. That's exactly what I said. Props on that reading ability.

[kurokuma]

LOL... watch, here they come....

oh wait you already posted

:woot:

[Hedgeshot]

That's a good one. :rofl: Believe me, right now I don't even care who's good or bad. As long as someone legitimately supports their competitive scene, they're worth something as far as I'm concerned. Too bad that doesn't apply to the bulk of theory scrubs who are apparently on the verge of dominating SRK. Guess I'm just some weirdo who thought this was a tournament-driven site for competitive players. Wait, those people "don't even know what constitutes a good fighting game." How will they ever survive now? Makes sense that they're being replaced. :rolleyes:

Haha, yeah I care if people don't like 3S. That's exactly what I said. Props on that reading ability.

Eh, you are in the SF4 section of the website. You'll find occasional bouts of actual information, tons of what-if posts, and tons of rampant fanboism (which leads to arguing). You won't find competitive "tournament-driven" posting for a game that isn't even released.

[Gaijinblaze]

Eh, you are in the SF4 section of the website. You'll find occasional bouts of actual information, tons of what-if posts, and tons of rampant fanboism (which leads to arguing). You won't find competitive "tournament-driven" posting for a game that isn't even released.
I don't know about you but some of us post in other sections, it's not exclusive. Aside from that, this thread doesn't have much to do with SF4 to begin with. The entire premise is based on the assumption that SF4 sucks and ends up being ignored by most people. Not exactly the smartest idea for an SF4 thread.

Haha, in hindsight, read the beginning of the thread to see which retard was looking to hit the gas on this topic again. It's like he's better at ST vs 3S than actual ST. Because you'd have to be pretty damn good at ST to match that.

smug/vids

[Hedgeshot]

I don't know about you but some of us post in other sections, it's not exclusive. Aside from that, this thread doesn't have much to do with SF4 to begin with. The entire premise is based on the assumption that SF4 sucks and ends up being ignored by most people. Not exactly the smartest idea for an SF4 thread.

Haha, in hindsight, read the beginning of the thread to see which retard was looking to hit the gas on this topic again. It's like he's better at ST vs 3S than actual ST. Because you'd have to be pretty damn good at ST to match that.

smug/vids

Yeah, that's true. This thread probably was a bad idea.

[kurokuma]

i think that if street fighter 4 sucks, ill come runnin to shoryuken.com to see who changed their tune and tried to blend in with the people who predicted that the game would suck all along and to see who actually says, "fuck man, i was sooo wrong." but not to be an ass. I'm not going to post anything about it, ill just want to see who says what.

i will however post that i was wrong if the game turns out to be bad ass. but when i say bad ass i mean for ME.

as for 3S and peoples opinions of it, i like all fighting games. just my opinion but, the one thing i learned is that just like with any kind of art, games are different for everyone.

i think many things make or break a game for someone. we cant possibly believe that those things will be the same from person to person but when you get angry at another persons opinion or attack that person because you think your right and their not about something that can have no fact your acting like you do know whats right and wrong for everyone.

i think the thing that makes a game fuckin suck is when your with a group of gamers or in the arcades to play some stuff and enjoy your favorite games together and somehow that one asshole or that one asshole and his group of cock ridding small minded friends come along and make the game just not fun anymore. this type HAS to show off their Superior knowledge of a game over all others and is unwilling to play with others who do not play along their perceived rules. not only that, they think it MEANS something if they know more about the game or play better than you. in my opinion that is when games start to suck for me.

you can be a pro in a game and not be an asshole too. Ive seen it but it is indeed rare.

no one likes a gamer who gets mad or angry when you don't play the way they think you should in order for them to win against you or think the same things that they do about the game. in my opinion you have to be the biggest prick around to get mad or annoyed when someone doesn't play to your liking or to put someone down who thought they knew something about a game but was misinformed.

who gives a fuck what you know..lets fuckin play and have fun eh? if your a serious gamer thats fine, just don't be a fuckin Nazi and try to force other to be like you.

also, each game is different for everyone. fuck your rules and FAQs and what you read on a pro player forum or famitsu and what your buddy who's a "PRO" told you. just because a game has a certain set of rules doesn't mean we have to play it that way. just about every fighting game that has been popular starts out with everyone doing and playing the same way. then later people start to find other things in the game that no one else thought of. mvc2 is a good example of artistic playing and thinking outside the box.

point is, all the fighting games we play are different for everyone. even if the comp is the same each person who plays it comes away with something different. people who get angry at others who don't like the game they like forget that. for example, one guy might be good at parries so for him 3S is awesome. another guy might suck with parries and while trying to get better at them gets dusted time and time again which makes him hate the game. and another guy might just say fuck the parries, tries to play the game without using them, may or may not get dusted in the process, and still like the game in the end cause he doesn't care about winning or losing. actualy im inclined to think that if more people didnt care about how they looked to other faceless gamers online and in the arcade crowds then they might be able to enjoy games a bit more in the first place.

its all different for everyone and if you don't believe me all you have to do is look at all the arguments and how many people disagree with the way a game is supposed to be or play. if the game had a one way to play or think rule then we would all just agree on all this shit right?

so i guess what I'm trying to say is everyone is right about these games. they way you feel about it is right for YOU, just remember that there are other people out there who will not agree. don't go around makin an ass of yourself by attacking people who have a different view than you cause for me, that makes you (pro player, respected player, knowledgeable player, or not) just about the worst person out there and definitely one of the reasons the fighting game scene is shrinking more and more as days go by......

don't gotta agree but you don't have to be an asshole either.
(note: i didnt name any names but only the assholes will get upset by this comment and post insults after)

if SF4 sucks, ill play until i know 100% that theres no hope for it. but the one good thing that could come from it sucking is a better game down the line. i know some people say that if this game sucks then capcom will never make another one but i think that just based off of the reactions to the first SF4 trailer alone, capcom saw how much money can still be made off of the series. i don't think they will just give up if SF4 sucks. i think we will get a 2D game that is BETTER than the last one. but even if they do decide not to make anymore after, we still have fighting game perfection from the company's past without worry of the series becoming something too messed up down the line.

if anything street fighter dying would make a lot of gamers spread out to other stuff they where probably being bias towards before and thats not a bad thing unless their the i know more than you and god, only the strong survive, do anything for faceless community respect, scrub screamin types.

[KayinNasaki]

THIS has to be a joke post. This has to be....

Are people really saying this? That ST players move on to dominate in 3s but not the other way around?

Do they REALLY blame the fundamentals of 3rd Strike and not, you know, the order that the games came out?

I didn't say dominate, but for fun I checked 2007s EVO results. Top three.

Nuki, Tokido and Alex Valle. All top level ST players. Granted 2007 was a strange year, but still. Now who started in 3s and found success elsewhere? Someone might be able to come up with a name, so go for it.

[Renesis_13]

Nuki, Tokido and Alex Valle. All top level ST players. Granted 2007 was a strange year, but still. Now who started in 3s and found success elsewhere? Someone might be able to come up with a name, so go for it.

And what exactly are you trying to prove with this (besides the fact that ACTUAL ST PROs enjoy 3s the same instead bashing the game for it's different game mechanics)

[erikstanton]

gonna play threes and guitar hero custom songs.

[woof]

yall bein trolled

[Renesis_13]

yall bein trolled

lol, actually this is the only post that makes sense in this thread

[Kataklysmic]

That's a good one. :rofl: Believe me, right now I don't even care who's good or bad. As long as someone legitimately supports their competitive scene, they're worth something as far as I'm concerned. Too bad that doesn't apply to the bulk of theory scrubs who are apparently on the verge of dominating SRK. Guess I'm just some weirdo who thought this was a tournament-driven site for competitive players. Wait, those people "don't even know what constitutes a good fighting game." How will they ever survive now? Makes sense that they're being replaced. :rolleyes:

Haha, yeah I care if people don't like 3S. That's exactly what I said. Props on that reading ability.

Apparently you do care, because you're always running your mouth whenever 3S comes into question. This a pattern with you. Yeah, maybe you are getting sick of the same ST/3S topic being brought up. But seriously? You jump on a high-horse and get pissy about a FORUM discussion, and then you tell people they're not competitive or supporting their scene? Who the hell are you to talk? Everybody is guilty of discussions like this, even respected tournament players. Are you gonna tell me THEY'RE nothing but theorist scrubs?

You're not gonna change anything by putting yourself on a pedestal, little guy. If you don't like what's being posted, just STFU and get lost.

[Kataklysmic]

I don't know about that. If it really were that much of a guessing game, you wouldn't see certain players consistently placing well.

I wasn't trying to say 3S is random. Sure, whoever's less predictable will win. It's just that the whole game revolves around parrying. It takes too much away from the characters. ST and A3 don't have this problem, and thankfully, neither does SF4.

So as it relates to the thread title, it's gonna take a lot to convince me that SF4's gonna suck. And if it does, it certainly won't stay that way, what with the advent of patches and all.

And what exactly are you trying to prove with this (besides the fact that ACTUAL ST PROs enjoy 3s the same instead bashing the game for it's different game mechanics)

And who are they? You certainly don't mean ALL ST pros.

[clue2025]

All that shit he just said

QFT!:woot: You got it right on the spot man. I'd give you all green if I could.

[TS]

And the downward spiral continues.

I wish people understood what was actually being said.

[Infested Jester]

I wish people understood what was actually being said.


You ask for far too much.

We am be ignorant. (http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8449/readthread7znog2.gif)

[COUM]

hey if you think the only difference parry makes between 3s and ST is that fireballs suck you are really fucking stupid and probably suck at both games

But you can't enter some tournament and mindlessly parry everything and win, since it's SO easy mode and such the means to victory?

nobody said that though

[clue2025]

hey if you think the only difference parry makes between 3s and ST is that fireballs suck you are really fucking stupid and probably suck at both games



nobody said that though

Nobody said that but thats the biggest reason people bitch about 3S because it has parries.

Can someone close this thread? Its established that we'll play the other fighting games coming out on top of our old games if this game bombs.

[Dark Symphony]

I didn't say dominate, but for fun I checked 2007s EVO results. Top three.

Nuki, Tokido and Alex Valle. All top level ST players. Granted 2007 was a strange year, but still. Now who started in 3s and found success elsewhere? Someone might be able to come up with a name, so go for it.


All top level ST players. Don't some of them dominate CVS2? A3? As well as TS?

To me, it seems that the best players come from the height of fighting gamery. People who have been playing the longest or those who have the opportunity to play the most are winning.

Saying that the dominators of the OLDER GAME moving on to dominate the LATER game means that the later game produces no good players is ridiculous. Many top ST players made their names dominating earlier SF games. What does that take away from ST?

TTT players dominate T5. What does that take away from T5?

Slash players are dominating GGAC.

Original CS players are dominating CS Source.

Melee players are dominating Brawl.

What if these people are taking the fundamentals they've been refining for years in other games into, check it, DIFFERENT games with similar fundamentals?

Maybe that's why Ricky Ortiz has good showings in Tekken, CVS and TS?

Maybe it's why I can ace out people in fighting-esque games i've never played that they've been playing for months?


And how does it help your argument that ST players can dominate in 3s when the basis of your argument is that parrying kills the game and makes it random or easy or whatnot...

To support your claim, you would need to show that people are NOT consistently winning. Tha ST players COULD NOT make a dent in 3s.

Don't just watch some 2K4 comeback video and say "Oh no!" There's a reason you've never done it yourself.

[COUM]

And how does it help your argument that ST players can dominate in 3s when the basis of your argument is that parrying kills the game and makes it random or easy or whatnot...

To support your claim, you would need to show that people are NOT consistently winning. Tha ST players COULD NOT make a dent in 3s.

how can you consistently manage to completely miss the point

[Dark Symphony]

hey if you think the only difference parry makes between 3s and ST is that fireballs suck you are really fucking stupid and probably suck at both games



nobody said that though


I could swear you used the term "easy mode parrying" at some point. Another thread, I think.



People argue that 3s is different from ST. I agree. I am just lost on why that's bad.

There is something attractive about ST's chess like strat where things are set up FAR before hand. People fight for that position. That place that creates that nigh inescapable trap or that 90/10 guessing game in their favor. I like it. It's beautiful. It gets more beautiful when you know it's happening and can see what people are going for. When I think of game design, I always toy with the idea of actualy EMBRACING counter characters and the like because ST was a game where a big part of the game started BEFORE the game. Who are you going against? Who are they good with? Who will you use? It matters a a LOT more in ST because you could straight end up with Honda vs O. Sagat and be like "dang it."

Some people like it.

Others prefer not to have a character shut down like that. You know what's great? I can turn on TS for that. While some characters get killed by others (3 good moves Ibuki has die to Makoto cr. forward), the game has a more moment to moment approach where there is no real 90/10 trap and you have to constantly actively guess right, which some can argue is better, some worse. I think it cancels out. While scrubbery can't get put in the terrible position he deserves, his superior opponent also has outs when scrubbery gets fortunate or mimics something he saw on a video and makes a few lucky guesses. You can still reduce your opponents options. Even to where this so called "get out of jail free card" people make it out to be is the only real viable option. In which case it can be baited and the guessing continues.

Some people like it.

I can't see how either one is better. One rewards a few good guesses heavily. Means scrubs get killed quick, but also means they can get lucky and kill quick. One gives outs for many things. It gives scrubs an out but also makes it harder for them to get in a situation where they have control...

OK... i've talked about this enough... I'm sure it's all been done to death. I just don't see any argument that says anything other than "they're different games with different styles that both seem to be dominated by better players."

[COUM]

lol you got it twisted where you said 3s rewards more skills than ST

3s rewards a small subset of the skills any other fighting game, including ST, rewards

[archetype]

This is hilarious, its not even the fact that people are dissing 3s but that people are getting highly offended at it the insults towards the game.

Why don't the 3s players say that ST is a game plagued with random damage on normals and specials; a game that gives some characters ridiculously powerful supers and some with absolute shit supers; dizzies are random and a nuisance; some characters have an easier time building meter than others; and a game that falls below the expectations of one of its predecessors(hyper fighting) in terms of balance. Its safe to say that everything I mentioned is accepted fact in the community and everyone who knows quite enough about ST know this to be a fact yet they still play.

On the other hand we have people saying that 3s seriously distorts the core foundation of Street Fighter(using Hyper Fighting as the standard of sf principles); that 3s limits the diversity of the characters because of parrying; that parrying itself is a destructive element because it is a low risk/high reward through the methods of option select; zoning/space control and multilevel thought processes are reduced because of the system(parrying mostly); fireballs usefulness are reduced because of decreased damage and parrying; oddball characters; and moves that are given universally to all characters decrease the diversity of characters. Once again its safe to say that everything I mentioned(sorry if any mistakes) is accepted as fact in the community and everything who knows quite enough about 3s knows this to be a fact YET people still play.

The point I am making is that every game has its problems regardless if you agree with it or not some of it is just plain true. Blame capcom for making ST before 3s. I'm certain that if 3s came out in 1991 and ST or hyper fighting later people will be judging everything from another standard perhaps. Dudes come on, even I know there is some stupid aspects in 3s, ST, cvs2, marvel, kof, xmsf, marvel 1 but I dont get mad when the things about those games are true. Lets be real. And you know what people STILL play these games regardless because its fun to them even if they know shit is wrong with it.

Peeps on both sides of the fence just need to play kick the can, its better than hyper fighting, there I said it.

[SlothHands]

words.

For ST, you forgot to add corny as hell sound effects, corny music remixes, faggot announcer, throw loops, storing supers, chun li's mp throws, some fireball spamming game play, T.Hawk, Deejay, boring as fuck to watch etc.

oh and 3s fireball spam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jEPVdhaz3M&feature=related

[Hellion]

I'll be the first to admit that. My skills with even my most comfortable fighters falls somewhere between "scrub" and "Meh, OK", and in all honesty that is most likely the reason I prefer 3s over 2. For me and my friends of that approximate skill level, the simplicity of ST makes it a bit boring, while 3s is appealing to us because while we know the parry system, we are nowhere near the level where it becomes an apparent flaw.

ST isn't that simple. It is on the surface but the reason it lasted so long is because once you go past that you see it has depth.

I admit to liking that in the older games to escape from traps you have to rely on what your character's inherent strengths are and more often than not need to actually input more commands in a tighter window to get by.

Parrying in a sense is different.
If you submit that cancels to super (with the reflexes that go with it of course)
are easy, if you take a confirmed parry to c.MK as the "hit confirmation," which is about the same amount of time to confirm short, short, kara s.lk xx super, then in the instance I gave above you only need to input 1 command instead of 4 on the dot to get out of the trap.

Some like this because getting out of these traps and so on makes it so that the chance for a "comeback" is always there.

Howver you get these magic 0-pixel life victories often enough in ST.
In a situation where you're getting up and you're at 0 life, the other person supers and you die to chip, you *do* have that reversal window timing, which is much more difficult to achieve, to nail them back once their super invincibility's out, because in that sense they are committed and you have them.

The super itself can assist with getting out of these traps if you actually have the mental stamina to hold instead of fire it off like an idiot as soon as you get the meter, because the other player's counting on this.

I suppose I like how each character's individual style shines in that game vs 3S.
A lot of the multi-hitting moves/tricks to get past the fireball done in the past by other characters simply aren't required anymore until EX fireballs come out.
Even then, with parry, why bother doing them? Much easier to tap forward twice than to charge for a headbutt through one like Balrog.

But yeah, just preference for the former to me.



Possibly even STHD.

Interesting that you mention that.
Yes the characters are being tweaked a bit so some are more "playable," some come out as being a little more dominating than they were before. Like O.Hawk is actually considered to be "Good," ST Hawk by comparison sucks. Sirlin's saying they're making it so his shits easier to pull off, makes me wonder just how he stacks up vs Balrog and Sim now.

Also makes me wonder if a reason people like 3S more is due to how much better it looks, in addition to everything else I mentioned above.

In the end I guess, it's all preference.


snip

A lot of people from the old days hate and say competition has softened these days and become too friendly though.
"Assholes," so on, yeah its a game, but back then it wasn't just a game.
Remember some of these guys saying "Daigo is idolized here, HE SHOULDN'T BE," and things that Apoc says on and off?
How they get heated?
Remember that Schaeffer/Daigo thread about 3 years back? (or was it 4? forget)

Heck, those who go way back think supers ruined the original feel of the fighting, saying its stupid that you're fighting, then suddenly you have to back off because the other guy's super meter's flashing.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions I guess, however embittered they may become when everyone else moves on to another game and their favorite one is dropped.

On those vids,
Yeah you get a lot of Balrog wins, but it's not just Balrog. It's actually a tie between him and 'Sim for the top spot, but Sim's far from easy to use. And many characters have shit that lets them deal some damage without use of a super, like Ken's throw tricks or Chun's stored super.

The counter matches are more clear cut, but some actually turn the tide, you can find a vid or two of Cammy actually getting close to beating Honda, even beat him a round (though I attribute this to the Honda's lack of knowledge on how to play against her. The match was his before it began)

The CE Guile mirror, yeah those are always like this.
It's a stupid match, but that's how it's played if you want to win, it's too risky to go all out with Guile without the charge in the mirror. Notice how it picked up when one of the Guile's would actually followup with something and "snip" the other guy, whether it was with a blocked boom or a d.MK?
Suddenly the other Guile was loosing, and now he had to fight to get in past those booms.
He get's past, and fortunately tags the other guile, now that Guile has to pull off some shit to tag the other, and its crunch time in that one's brain trying to figure out how to do it because all options are on lock with Guile's recovery following a boom in the mirror.
And the clock was ticking.

The match was actually pretty good, but I can see why it's not everyone's cup of tea. When it switches up to Guile vs O.Sagat or Sim, or New Guile Mirror (Muteki vs Kurahashi) those are actually just as good.

I no longer care about the whole "Parry" thing anymore, people play what they want, where and how. Hell with everything else.
I hope that SFIV turns out good, if not there's still ST, and STHD if more people actually play that.






Oh, and I still get to rape OP's firstborn if SFIV sucks.

[Zandwich]

this isn't what this thread was supposed to be about someone pls close

[EveryFlowerFlow]

Why don't the 3s players say that ST is a game plagued with random damage on normals and specials; a game that gives some characters ridiculously powerful supers and some with absolute shit supers; dizzies are random and a nuisance; some characters have an easier time building meter than others; and a game that falls below the expectations of one of its predecessors(hyper fighting) in terms of balance.


Wow! You're right, good thing 3S has none of those problems!


NONE!

[woof]

this isn't what this thread was supposed to be about someone pls close
No Zand make a new one

[Celtics777]

Since the beginning, this game has had its critics. Some are people who are saying they wont play it because it isn't like Third Strike or any other excellent Capcom offerings such as Capcom Fighting Evolution. Some people are saying they wont play it because it doesn't have parries, or custom combos, or air blocking.

However, most people are probably going to play it for a while regardless. But, what if this game turns out to be garbage? CFE had its followers for at least a few months and then it (rightfully) died. I don't know anyone who had fun playing CFE and people just seemed to trudge through it because it was the newest Capcom game.

So, what if THIS game sucks? No amount of playing CFE made it good, and if SF4 sucks, no amount of playing it is going to make it not suck. What will you do if SF4 sucks?

You mean there's a chance this game might actually turn out to be playable?

You're aware Ono is directing it right? :confused:

[TS]

Thread is looking up.

[KayinNasaki]

Snip

This is true. I play 3s, despite it's flaws. It's probably funner because no one I play with is any good, but hey, whatever. That said, part of the problem that erupts in when threads devolve into 3s vs Everything Else arguments is that the 3rd Strike players DON'T know whats wrong with their game. If you tell a ST player that dizzies and random damage is stupid, he'll probably agree. If you say supers are stupid, he may or may not agree, but he'll probably understand the argument.

A lot of 3s players don't understand any of this, though. They rarely understand their own game, let alone other ones. In fact, the biggest flaw in 3s is made by what makes it so cool to most people. so things get messy.... :(